February 12, 2025 • 43 mins
We have been fortunate to have such amazing guests on the show, which makes it all the more exciting when we get to have them return! Today, I’m rejoined by my dear friend, Dr. LaKeysha Hallmon, founder of The Village Market, to discuss some of the themes of her new book, No One Is Self-Made.
From community care in entrepreneurship to the response and responsibility of small business owners in the wake of corporations repealing DEI, we get into the idea of building out by first building within.
About the Podcast
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
Resources & Announcements
Did you know you can leave us a voice note with your questions for the podcast? If you have a question you'd like some feedback on, topics you'd like to hear covered, or want to suggest movies or books for us to review, drop us a message at memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls and let us know what’s on your mind. We just might share it on the podcast.
Grab your copy of Sisterhood Heals.
Where to Find Dr. Key
Instagram: @DrKeyHallmon
Grab your copy of No One Is Self-Made
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Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session three ninety eight of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation afterword from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I'm doctor ke Hallman. I'm on a Therapy for Black
Girls podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Today.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I'm in session discussing the myth of individual success and
the transformative power of community.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
We've been fortunate to have such amazing guests on the show,
which makes it all the more exciting when we get
to have them return. Today, I'm rejoined by my dear friend,
doctor Lakisha Hallman to discuss some of the themes in
her new book, No One Is Self Made, from community
care and entrepreneurship to the response and responsibility of small
(01:46):
business owners in the wake of corporations repealing THEI we
get into the idea of building out by first building within.
As I reflect on the last ten years of my
journey with Therapy for Black Girls, I'm especially proud of
how it inextricably linked our show. Success has been with
building community outside of the podcast, and I'm really excited
(02:07):
for you to hear this incredible conversation. If something resonates
with you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with
us on social media using the hashtag TVG in Session.
Here's our conversation. So it is officially launch a week.
How are you feeling?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I feel good. I feel good. I am. I feel
very grateful.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I think that's like the overwhelming feeling I just had
these moments.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I'm be like, man, God, we did that good.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
So you helping the self care and all of the
grounding and everything to get through this world. One week?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, I am.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I had a great workout before sitting down with you,
and then I'm gonna go for a walk a little
bit later today. I think as long as I do
those things and still have quiet time, I feel good.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Good good. I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I figured you already had a put but I definitely
wanted to check in.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of moving directions. I
have a whole tour line up. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, you got a lot to do within these next
couple of weeks. So I am very honored to have
one of my close friends, doctor Key Holman, joining us
today just talk about the launch of her new book,
No One Is Self Made. And so, doctor Key, I
know a lot of the origin story behind the book
and why it feels more urgent and more timely than
(03:27):
ever now, but I'd love for you to share with
our community, what was the really the impetus for writing
No One Is Self Made?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Before I answer that question, can I just say I'm
so excited to be on Therapy for Black Girls a second.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Time, second time visitor, second time.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I'm so so excited.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
But answer the question around the origin story how we
got here, Doctor Joy. I've wanted to write forever. One
of my earliest childhood memories, maybe six or seven years old,
I would tell my mom and sign her Mother's Day cards,
her birthday cards, her future Author and my first time
I remember doing that, I was maybe six or seven
(04:13):
years old. So this has been like a dream of
mine for the entirety of my life. And I think,
what's so incredible about this time now? I couldn't have
written this book ten years ago. I couldn't have written
this book five years ago. This book is all about
divine timing because it's all about building community. And I
(04:34):
think we're in a place now where it's less about
talking about community. I think we realize how much we
needed and no one is self made is talking about
how to be in community, because for me, community will
be and always has been the thing to save us.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So first of all, I didn't know that story until
I read the book about you signing your cards is
your Future Author? Was so sweet and so like I
feel like manifesting, right, because that feels like very much
a you, thing that you would have done at six
years old. And I think we often think about community
really in terms of like personal stuff, right, Like, so
you think about your friendship circles, you think about like that.
(05:14):
I think what is unique about the way that you
talk about community is that you also talk about the
impact it has in terms of entrepreneurship and the success
of businesses. So can you talk a little bit more
about the need for community, especially as it relates to
economic success.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Absolutely, I think the model for our community in particular,
or in a group that's deemed as a minority, collective economics.
Group economics is the way forward. As business owners, I
can only imagine where I would be if I had
the mindset that I have now.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I knew to build in community, but I didn't.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Necessarily know how to do so in twenty sixteen when
I was building a village market, I didn't really understand
the functioning. The functionings of success is contingent upon how
having a clear vision and values aligned ecosystem, and so
I think for entrepreneurs business owners, it's the model. It's
(06:09):
the model of how do we pull our resources, our
money together to go after bulk bides of inventory. How
do we pull our money together to go after office space,
warehouse space, How do we pull our money together to
share a fractional COO, a fractional CPA, all these things.
Because when you're first starting, you don't necessarily have the
(06:30):
capital to afford all these things. But we can do it,
and we can afford it together and beyond those tangible things,
there's nothing like having an ecosystem, a community of people
that understand what you are doing. So being in community
with like minds and sharing your startup journeys, sharing the
hard days, stressful days, it's nothing like it. It's a
(06:53):
place of resolve and it's also a place of solution.
I've been able to have many tough conversations with you
about business, about oh, doctor Joy, this is going on,
and we problem solve in real time together.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
That is what community is, and that is what I
want us.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
To start building and thinking about and putting that as
our framework on it as and how we build hmm.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
You know, I appreciate you bringing in that example because
I'm remembering and reflecting on some of the very difficult
conversations we've had about like what does this even mean?
Like how do we find ourselves here? Like trying to
do these big girl things as we sometimes call it.
But I'm thinking about like when I first met you,
I wouldn't have been having very open conversations with you
about like finances and like, hey, I'm really struggling with
(07:38):
this thing in my business, which is something that you
address in no one is self made, right because in
order to say hey, let's go have on a CFO
or let's split a website design person, there's a level
of honesty and like safety, I think that has to happen.
So can you talk about how you get to that
place right in business? Because these aren't necessarily people that
(08:02):
you would have known from college, right, Like these are
newer relationships, Like you're a newer friend to me, right,
And so I think that there can be some heloitance
to talk very honestly about numbers and like the intricacies
of our business with people who may be fairly new
to us.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Absolutely, and that's a great call out. So business relationships
is like any other relationship. I don't think you come
in on the first day making out the demands of
what you want. I think is gradual over time. How
trust is built. The way that we've been able to
collaborate in business was not from the very first time
we met. But we knew when we first met. I
(08:38):
knew that there was something special about you and that
you would be in my life, and I allow that
to just happen organically. I think as we go into
a community, one thing that we can control for is
the intentions that we write or as you say, manifests.
But we can be very intentional with the type of
partners we want to attract, the type of people that
(08:59):
we want to bring. Again to me, that is step
one being able to identify the type of collaboration that
we want to have, and then secondly going out and
being in spaces of community of like minds. So it's
not going to every entrepreneur event. It's going to entrepreneur
events that speak to you. So I'm more of a
holistic entrepreneur, so I need the wellness piece. I need
(09:21):
that to be married with a conference that's also talking
about scaling. The reason why that's important to me. I
can imagine there's other people like me that's going to
be in that space because we all decided to go
to the same thing. And then thirdly, from reaching out
to people and saying, hey, you know, I would love
to cop on a zoom with you, learn more about
you as a person and I share more about me
(09:43):
than we began to form a relationship. I think what
happens after that is that either the relationship catches own
or it doesn't. But I do not believe that you
jump into relationships saying let's go buy a building together.
I think too soon, too soon. Vulnerability takes time, Trust
takes time. What I tell entrepreneurs and folks like I
(10:05):
was almost ten years ago, you don't have to knock
it out of the park with your first experience. I
think that we meet people and we say, I finally
met doctor Joy. I gotta tell her everything I got
to work with her today. I think we have to
trust the evolution of relationships. I think we have to
trust that if you build organically, if someone reaches out
(10:25):
and talks to you from a real place, doctor Joy,
of just recognizing the gifts that you have and telling
you thank you for creating therapy for black girls, I
believe that is a deeper way to start saying I
see you in the ability of being seen. I think
we get to see other people. I love more warm
approaches rather than coming again hot with all these big
(10:47):
demands of what we want from business partners.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So you talk about in the book, like the importance
of recognizing other people's gifts and like trying to kind
of hire from within your village as much as possible.
I feel like we've had other conversations not you and I,
but me and other guests on the podcast, just about
some of the difficulties with boundaries when like you blend relationships. Right,
So your sister works in one of your businesses, you
(11:11):
have another business with two of your really close friends,
So you've really done the work of like multiple relationships
with people in your life. Can you share some about
how do you manage boundaries and like what kinds of
maybe difficult conversations have you had to have with those
people when you're extending a current relationship to from personal
to now business first?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Can we talk about boundaries?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
It's necessary in everything, and it's necessary and business is
necessary when you are a leader in the world because
so much is incoming and so much is outgoing. And
so I've structured my life almost there's a fortress around
me to make sure that my mental health is strong,
my spiritual health is strong as well. But yes, I've
been able to partner with two friends, Juel and Tracy,
(11:57):
for our company three ten Studios. My sister, Yolanda is
my operations manager for the village. None of these relationships
were premature. What's so beautiful about Yolanda leading the way?
Yolanda is an impeccable business woman. She is so skilled
in the retail industry, and how that relationship happened, meaning
(12:20):
she decided to come drain me on the mission.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
She was helping me interview people.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
And we couldn't find the right fit. And if y'all
read the book, you're going to learn all about this.
But we couldn't find the right fit. And it hit
me one day, doctor Joyd. I was like, we're sitting
and interviewing and a person I need is a person
has always been consistent, honest, hardworking, shared within herself the
(12:47):
same values that I have about treating people, and also
has the experience to do what I'm striving to do.
I didn't have to look anymore. I call Yolanda and
I said, I think I've been looking for you.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
You.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I think we've been interviewing people and we can't find
anyone because it's you. And she made the decision in
less than four to eight hours to uproot her life
and moved to Georgia to be on this mission with me.
And the level of trust that we have in each other,
it is beyond the physical sisterhood of sharing parents. It
(13:26):
is a sisterhood of what we are committed to and
bringing forth in a community. So I didn't just get
to hire a sibling. I got to be on a
mission with one of the best in the industry who
so happens to be my sister. And for Jewel and Tracy,
we've been friends now for a number of years and
this is our first time going on a venture together.
(13:47):
Because the timing was perfect, we didn't even overthink investing
in three ten together. Tracy found a building, reached out
to Jewel, reached out to me. We met at our friends' venue.
We sat there and we talked maybe two to three hours,
and we made a decision that we were going to
(14:09):
do it. It was much more than business. We all
have respect for each other. So I think if you're
going to bring a family member or a close friend on,
you have to make sure that they have respect for
you as the business woman that you are or the
businessman that you are. For all our listeners, you have
to have people that understand that you are on a
mission and on a path, and they respect that you
(14:31):
are the person that's appointed to do it. They're willing
to work alongside you. I have a profound respect for Jule.
I have a profound respect for Tracy and they share
the same with me, And we knew that we could
open three ten and do something and set a presidence
of what it means to put your money together and
physically go do something and not overthink it.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
But for me, the.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Boundary always begins and ends with love and respect.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
More from our conversation after the break, we talked a
little bit about like why it feels like your book
is so important, especially in this time you and I
have not had this conversation. I purposely not talk to
you about this conversation because I wanted to save it
(15:19):
for the podcast. But you know, in the past couple
of weeks we have seen all of these rollbacks of
DEI programs. Specifically, I think Target, right, so, I think
Target has felt the most impactful in terms of the
Black community because I think it, at least outwardly, there
were such an incubator for new black businesses, right, Like
(15:40):
I know they have like put on the map some
of these brands that we all love now and like
we love that we can find it in Target. And
so lately I've been observing these conversations around like how
do we continue to support like these small business owners
if we make the choice not to support Target, And
so it feels like there is not like confusion about
(16:01):
whether we continue to support the business owners. It feels
like the confusion is about how and what is most
impactful to me. It feels like this is an inside
versus outside conversation, though it's hard because there is no
real place for an inside conversation. I feel like we
are trying to muddle through it right, like we're trying
to figure out, like what is the best path forward?
(16:23):
And this is how I feel like our books are
in conversation with one another, because I do feel like
there is a way for us to come to each
other in love, even though this is a messy situation
we're all trying to figure out, and I think sometimes
that is lost. And so I would love to hear
your thoughts about how do we move forward, because you
know so much of your platform is like around collective economics,
(16:45):
and it feels hard to do that when we can't
really get on one accord about like what the path
forward looks like.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, and thank you for asking me that question.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I share in the overwhelming feeling that I feel that
many of us had with Target. We were like, oh no,
not Target, not Target.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Because yeah, not tar Jack, not tar Jay.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
But you landed on Why it mattered, it's because how
they stood, it's how they stood out is the bold
steps that they were taking to ensure that diversity, equity,
and inclusion were power statements well, an affirmation of how
they were going to coexist with us in the world.
And for them to roll back that, it's like, auh,
(17:34):
you were doing so well standing, why must you sit
now when we need you to stand? And because of that,
it left our community in a sense of discombobulation. Some
felt in many feel Target would never get a dollar
of mine again. Others may feel only black brands would
(17:55):
get my money at Target. But I think what many
people feel is a sense it's a betrayal, and either
one of those solutions or how we decide to move
is a sense of betrayal there because we expected better
for a corporation that said they understood our value, and
that is a betrayal, being a let down of values.
(18:18):
I want to remind all the incredible listeners not everybody
participated in the montgovernment bus boycott.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I know it.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
It appeared like we were all on the same page.
But we don't know what those closed door conversations were being.
We don't know how many doors would slam, how many arguments,
how many tough conversations.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
We don't know that.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
So what happens on social media we get to see
it played out loud. We don't have the safety of
privacy on social media because I do believe that people
have to respectfully and can respectfully disagree with each other.
But what broke my heart joy is that we began
in this process to turn our folks on each other
(19:01):
when the focus should have been solely on these corporations.
We began to attack each other, and that is not
the solved. We can respectfully disagree, but we have to
remember that we are not each other's enemy. We are
not the people that created this. So there is no
time to then start to tear down your sister or
(19:22):
your brother. We are one functioning body that may have
different ideas on what the body needs, but we are
one functioning body. So I have a great deal of
respect and empathy that this has been a trying time.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
But I also want us to know that this.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Is a trying time that we did not create in
order to exist in this moment. And to survive this moment,
we have to recenter our gaze not on each other,
but on.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Who was the steward of this discord.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
And it wasn't us. And so I write about the
book the power of our Words. I write about the
book and how that we must hold each other with
delicate hands even if we disagree.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Because that's okay.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
It's totally okay to disagree, but it's not okay for
us to become harmful with our words and with our
fingers towards each other.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
M Yeah, And I really appreciate you saying that, because
it does feel like that is very much the function
of white supremacy, right like that, now we are fighting
with one another, and the onus is not on the
corporations anymore, right like now, it is us figuring it
out for ourselves. So I really appreciate that. I want
to take a step back and think about where did
this idea that we had to be self made even
(20:38):
come from? Where did this idea of that's the only
way that success looks is that you are self made
and like nobody helped you to get there.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I think our country unfortunately sits on the foundation of individualism,
and I think if its seats in the roots of individualism,
then you're going to have things like self made. And
I would tell you in our own community, when we
call each other self made, I think the only intention
there is to say I'm proud of you. You did that,
you made a way out of no way, as my
grandma would say. I think that is what our intentions
(21:10):
are in that. But I think as a culture, as
a consciousness, we are communal people.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
So even on my.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Best day in business, even with the release of no
one is self made, even with sisterhood heels, there are
many players that contributed to us being able to write books,
to own businesses, to be leaders. When we champion self made,
I believe we erase those people, and that is not
(21:38):
our intention. I believe that we erase the players who
were so influential on our journey. But I think we
get in as a country and we're talking about business owners.
I think self made comes from an individualistic mindset, and
that individualistic mindset is causing peril in our community. We
need to shout to the raptors that we are a
(22:00):
village made, that I'm a reflection of a number of
people who assisted in my greatness, and I'm not taken
away from the level of self determination, self reliance it
takes to achieve the things that we've achieved. You must
answer the individual call in your life. But I also
know that there are many people that assist us on
(22:22):
our best day and also be there for us on
our worst day. And that is what I'm hoping that
our community get back to. We must return to community.
Community is the only thing that would propel us forward,
and we have to divorce divorced mindsets of individualism. We
have to divorce constructs that have never pushed us forward
(22:45):
but hold us back. It is not good enough for
one of us to succeed. It is to our betterment
that we have a functioning body that many of us
are rising at the same time.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
And that's the story that we're telling.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
The other book, you talk about like six different rules
that you feel like are important for a community to
be successful or for a business to be successful, and
I really love the breakdown of that. So would you
talk about those six different types and how people might
figure out like who they are within their own communities.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I don't want to get too much away to our listeners,
but I will say for people who feel they are builders.
I wrote something for you, people who feel that they
are those that can cast and see a vision into
a future.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Futurist, I wrote something for you in this book.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
The reason why I broke it and broke down these six
functionings of a community because in order for us to
build in community, we have to know where our gifts lie.
In order for me to know that if I'm a
futurist and a builder, and I need to make sure
that I attract more cheerleaders, that I attract more observers, y'all,
(23:56):
I'm giving y'all nuggets in a book, more observers in
the village. You have to know what you possess in
order to know what you need. And so I'm hoping
as people come to that chapter, I hope that you
also reminded that your gifts are powerful and needed. So,
if you function as a cheerleader, you have power and
(24:17):
being a cheerleader. If you're functioning as an observer, we
need all your wisdom. If you're functioning as a futurist,
make sure you're a partner with a builder so we
can make sure those things that you're envision they actually
come to be But the reason why doctor Jorye this
chapter and breaking it down meant so much to me
(24:38):
is because I meet people often that say, doctor Key,
I don't even know where to start a doctor Key,
I don't really know what gives the talents that I possess.
I got six for you, and I bet they're somewhere
in that six you will see yourself, and there's somewhere
in your six you're going to see other people in
your community.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
And as those people begin to come to your.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Mind, I need you to write their names down, because
you could be writing a blueprint for your team. You
could be writing a blueprint for the community that you're
going to foster and create.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
You talk about this, and I really appreciate that, because
you're talk in the book about not really feeling afraid
of the vision once you had it right. And I
think that that is where a lot of us get stuck,
that we kind of start thinking about something. It's like,
I don't even know where to start with this. This
feels really scary. What would you tell people about pushing
past any fear they have along that vision?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Absolutely, listen, so many people have done things scared and
they did it anyway. I will say this in twenty
twenty five. I need you to do it, afraid if
you're consistently getting the vision and it keeps coming back
to you and back to you. One of my favorite
(25:54):
movies is The Color Purple, and I remember sug Avery
talking about it. She can't sleep at night, and she
wonders why, because God is trying to tell her something.
If you are an entrepreneur and that vision keeps coming
back to you and you can't sleep at night, it's
because there is something for you to birth.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
It is something for you to do.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Let you hear from me. You are capable of doing it.
And there is no such thing as a perfect process.
There are moments when you get full body yess and
then the world be like, no, sit down, No, I
need you to stand back up. I need you to
stand back up because this is a critical time.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
For us to be alive.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I think it is upon our destiny, doctor Joy, to
be alive at such a time as this. And so
if you are the person that nagging thing keeps coming
in twenty five, in twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven,
we need you to do it.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
This is such a time for us to be alive.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
But I am so inspired in fuol by it, So listeners,
all the collective, I need you to build anyway.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I need you to build anyway.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
One other thing that I was really inspired by in
the book is that you are very transparent about mistakes
that you have made along the way, right, And I
think a lot of times people who are on the
outside don't know that, like, of course you're humans or
you're making mistakes. But I think sometimes we mask it
really well, like people just don't know the inner workings.
So what can you say that you've learned about making
(27:29):
mistakes as entrepreneurs that you would maybe want other entrepreneurs
to know.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Yes, first, I'll say the reason why I wrote that
chapter in such a way, with such level of vulnerability,
because we need to start to humanize success. So when
others have set back to what the perception of failures,
you can say, oh wait, doctor Key had hard moments,
(27:55):
doctor Joy had hard moments, and keep thinking of entrepreneurs
because in our truth telling, we empower other people to
be perfectly imperfect. So I wrote that chapter from an
open space in my heart because I want people to
see the human and the humanity and what it means
to build something, and the hard stuff for me and
(28:19):
those tough lessons I've learned the reason why I can
get on here and talk to you about them now,
doctor Joy. I just allowed them to empower me. I'm
in a place in my life and my headset in
mind space is that if I go through a hard moment,
I just want to know the lesson. I want to
know what is this moment trying to reveal to me
(28:41):
about myself, less about people, but about me, Because I
think as we get to know and understand ourselves more,
we can better discern people. But we have to know
and do and have a strong understanding of who we are.
But I really take my lessons on my hard lessons
on the chin, and sometimes I take my hard lessons
(29:02):
in my prayer room, and sometimes I take my hard
lessons to save spaces of my friend groups. And sometimes
I take those hard lessons to my family and those
who I know that I can confide in. But I
don't allow those lessons to just sit. I apply them
so I can ensure that I am building better and
(29:24):
that I understand why I experienced it so I don't
make the same mistake again. I just open myself for growth,
I don't learn lessons and also have the perception that
I've somehow I'm at the pinnacle and I never have
a hard moment again. The other part about experiencing hard
things is know that you can survive hard things. So
(29:45):
every tough lesson, especially as I was writing that chapter,
I remember in my draft stage, I told myself, and
you survived it, and you are still here. You are
here and you're even better. So for entrepreneurs and people
change agents who are building and they you may be
experienced in a very rough moment right now, you will
(30:07):
survive it. And if you sit with the lesson and
you ask the lesson, what are you trying to reveal
in me? I believe that you will have some truths
that's edifying to you to ensure that you're on a
more focused and structured path.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I think one of the things that sets you apart
as an entrepreneur and like the way that you have
built your business and also the businesses that you have
helped to build and help to set a path forward for,
is that there has always been a very intentional focus
on wellness and mental health. Why has that been important
to you to be a cornerstone in so much of
the work that you've done.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Because that is the most important thing. I am not
on a path, doctor Jordan. I want our people to
be economically liberated. I want to be economically liberated, and
I also think what should come before that, what should
lead that charge, is making sure that we have peace
(31:03):
in our soul, that our bodies are well, that our
mindsets are well. That is the difference and the clear
distinction of how I do and build all my work.
I take this as a holistic approach. I do not
want the wealth without the help.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
And if I have to.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Make a conscious choice, Doctor Joy, if I got met
with key, you can have health, you can have wealth.
I'd be like Hollo wealth because I got to be
here sound mind and sound body. I want to love
the body that I'm in. I want to have peace
in my mind. And for us to achieve economic liberation,
(31:42):
for us to heal the collect the body, then healing
has to be in the roots of what we are building.
It's no time now to only focus on building businesses
and scaling. You can't simply do that any longer. The
time now is like, let me ensure that I an well,
because if I one well, and I'm partnering with someone
(32:03):
else will then we have an opportunity to do something transformative.
It's no longer the time for just I'm just focusing
on seven eight, nine figure companies. That is not our focus, y'all.
That is not the mission. The mission is to be
in well mind, body, spirit, and soil that would lead
(32:25):
the type of entrepreneurs and founders and leaders. And the
way that we would interact with those on our team,
the way that we would position ourselves in community, the
way that we will operate in the privileges that comes
with success, the way that we would handle when hard
moments come when you're successful, those hard moments when you
grow and reach another stage nobody prepares you for. It's
(32:47):
also hard. But if you've done the spiritual work, if
you've done the mindset work, then you would have a
spirit in a community. Then nothing would be able to
break and shake.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
You one for my conversation after the break. So support
is a verb is one of your most popular mantras,
One of my favorite things that you say, and it's
really permeated like your work with the village and comes
(33:19):
through clear in the book. What does it look like
to move towards a more active, kind of intentional mode
of supporting one another versus maybe more passive.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Great question. Listen, Michelle Obama.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Our forever first Lady, said, it is the time to
do something. Support is a verb, is about action, y'all.
It is time for us to live a life where
we are actually doing well. We're actually physically operating in
a community that if you love black businesses, then you
(33:54):
should be patronizing those businesses. If you are passionate about
getting people registered to vote, then make sure that you're
getting people registered. If you're passionate about helping people with
their wellness, you need to make sure that your social
media content is actually saying that in doing that. This
(34:16):
is the time to be highly activated. I want us
to have time to reflect. I want us there's power
in stillness. But after we have been still, there's power
in the way that we do things. Back to the
question on wellness, When you take care of yourself, when
the's time for you to activate, when it's time for
you to do the way the force that you're going
(34:38):
to be because of the way that you're operating, in
the way that you're mobilizing. But this is a time
of profound action. Nothing passive about this time that we're in. Now,
we get to be transformative, and that is the pursuit
I believe that we should all be on now.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
So I think in conjunction with our action, we know
that there are some systemic beg briers that also need
to change. What kinds of things would you lay out
for people who to have a conversation with like their
legislator or people who actually have the bower to change
some of these systemic things? What kinds of changes would
you like to see in the interest of black businesses?
Speaker 3 (35:16):
And I'll say this, doctor Joy, I write in the
book a great deal of those systemic things. So I
want the readers to know that I grounded this book
and a great deal of research, because we're not writing
from a place of with reality sitting on the other
side of it.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Reality is what it is.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
And so Number one, the way that we can advocate
for black businesses in a black community is showing up
for council meetings that we are aware of what's going on,
or referendums and things that's on the ballot.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
All of that is awareness.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
The more we show up, the more that we can
advocate for, because then people are not making decisions When
our voice is not in a room, so many decisions,
so many decisions are made for us because we simply
would not show up. But as I see that there
has been a lot of conversation on federal contracts and
(36:13):
removing exclusion for minority owned businesses, we need to be
fighting that. We need to be fighting against that. So
much wealth in this country has been made due to
federal contracts. So we need to be asking on the city, state,
federal level, what are we doing about contracts, How are
(36:34):
we going to ensure that they're equitable, and what does
it mean to roll back the How does that impact
my black business? How does that impact me? And what
are you going to do about it? And so I
think we have to be very clear on what we're
fighting for. But you raise a good point. I do
think it's time for us to get into our friends
(36:55):
groups and grow that group and we start to think
about what are our demains. As people are asking us
to vote for them, then what do we want from them?
If they want our vote and they will work for us,
then what should they be working for. So our conversations
have to start changing in our friend groups and in
our community groups. We need to start thinking about the
(37:18):
things that we want and it can't be the thing
that will only benefit you. We're moving away from individualism.
What is the thing that you may have a privilege
and it doesn't even impact you, but you know that
it impacts a number of people. That is what we
need to be fighting for. And so doctor Dreward put
the onus back on the community here. Our conversations with
(37:43):
our friends need to evolve and we need to think
about we can't only operate from the places of our privilege.
Privilege gives you, even if you don't want it, a
blind spot, that blind what have you advocating for things
that only advance you but would impact the body? So
(38:06):
we have to get away from our privileges and think
about what is best for the body. That's what we
need to operate and start asking and holding people accountable for.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
So, how do you pop that people engage with no
one and self made? And what are maybe some of
the major takeaways you'd hope they leave with.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
You know, doctor joy, I wrote this book and you
read it. I wrote this book in a way that
it is very conversational. I don't think that there is
any space in this book that is hard to digest.
I did that intentionally. So the first thing that I
want the reader to feel is love. I wrote this
(38:50):
book from a place of love for our community and
my belief in what our community can achieve. I also
wanted to write this book for people who feel extremely
lonely and lost. I want this book to be your companion.
You got my voice in your hair, you are not
You got an advocate. I also want readers to take
(39:13):
away from this book that they begin to identify and
ask themselves from reflection questions. Every chapter ends with deep
reflection questions that really moves you to action. Because by
the time we make it to chapter eight, the way
that you're thinking, the way that you're moving, I hope
will change or evolve or being handsd. But what I'm
(39:37):
hoping the biggest, biggest, biggest takeaway, Doctor Joy, I want
the readers to know that the stuff that I'm talking
about this is not something that can happen thirty forty
years from now.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
It can happen now.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
It's just a sum of our daily choices that we
can experience the warmth of our community now. It depends
on how we decide to move. It depends on how
the steps that we take to heal. And so this
book for me is a love offering from the center
(40:10):
place of my heart. I believe so much in our community.
I see us, and I only leave inspire. I have
goose bumps when I think about the goodness that we
possess as a collective in what is possible if we
operate as one moving body towards with the same values,
(40:36):
in the same way that we decide this is the
way we're gonna treat each other. This is the way
that we're going to operate and take care of the body.
When we build businesses, we're gonna make sure that we
treat people well who decide to be on our team
with us. All of that is a palm of our choices.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
I think that many people will leave very inspired and
move to action, as you hope they will.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
They read it.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
So let us know where we can stay connected with you,
and where can we get our copy of No One
Is Self Made?
Speaker 3 (41:07):
No One Is Self Made is available everywhere books are sold,
so all those major major retailers. I also want you
to check with your local bookstores. Shout out to local
but you can go to No One at Self Made
dot com no Www, No One at Self Made dot Com.
You can learn a little bit more about the book
and you can purchase the book. Y'all purchase the book.
(41:29):
If you want to join me on tour, it's laid
out there. I hope to see you in real time.
And if you want to keep up with me on
social it's doctor Keith Hallman. I spend the most time
on Instagram and a little time on LinkedIn, but I
hope to be able to connect with you as you
read the book and Doctor Joy, I wish I want
to tell you thank you. Thank you for being my friend,
(41:52):
thank you for being my sister. And when you all
read the book you will see what I mean that
Doctor Joy is is sisterhood and action. But you got
to read the book to see what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Such a little call outs and E says there, But
thank you so much. I appreciate you joining me and
do hope again that people will go out and grab
their copy of No One Is Self Made. Thank you
for being here. I'm so glad Doctor Key was able
to join me for this conversation to learn more about
(42:27):
her or to grab a copy of No One Is
Self Made. Check out the show notes at Therapy for
Blackgirls dot com slash Session three ninety eight, and don't
forget to text this episode to two of your girls
right now.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Did you know?
Speaker 1 (42:40):
You can leave us a voicemail with your questions for
the podcast. If you want to suggest other movies or
books for us to review, or even give us thoughts
around topics you'd like to hear discussed on the podcast.
Drop us a message at Memo dot fm slash Therapy
for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind.
We might just answer your question on the podcast asked.
(43:01):
If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit
our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory.
This episode was produced by Elise Ellis and Tyree Rush.
Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much
for joining me again this week. I look forward to
continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care,
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session three ninety eight of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation afterword from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I'm doctor ke Hallman. I'm on a Therapy for Black
Girls podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Today.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I'm in session discussing the myth of individual success and
the transformative power of community.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
We've been fortunate to have such amazing guests on the show,
which makes it all the more exciting when we get
to have them return. Today, I'm rejoined by my dear friend,
doctor Lakisha Hallman to discuss some of the themes in
her new book, No One Is Self Made, from community
care and entrepreneurship to the response and responsibility of small
(01:46):
business owners in the wake of corporations repealing THEI we
get into the idea of building out by first building within.
As I reflect on the last ten years of my
journey with Therapy for Black Girls, I'm especially proud of
how it inextricably linked our show. Success has been with
building community outside of the podcast, and I'm really excited
(02:07):
for you to hear this incredible conversation. If something resonates
with you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with
us on social media using the hashtag TVG in Session.
Here's our conversation. So it is officially launch a week.
How are you feeling?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I feel good. I feel good. I am. I feel
very grateful.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I think that's like the overwhelming feeling I just had
these moments.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I'm be like, man, God, we did that good.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
So you helping the self care and all of the
grounding and everything to get through this world. One week?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, I am.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I had a great workout before sitting down with you,
and then I'm gonna go for a walk a little
bit later today. I think as long as I do
those things and still have quiet time, I feel good.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Good good. I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I figured you already had a put but I definitely
wanted to check in.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of moving directions. I
have a whole tour line up. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, you got a lot to do within these next
couple of weeks. So I am very honored to have
one of my close friends, doctor Key Holman, joining us
today just talk about the launch of her new book,
No One Is Self Made. And so, doctor Key, I
know a lot of the origin story behind the book
and why it feels more urgent and more timely than
(03:27):
ever now, but I'd love for you to share with
our community, what was the really the impetus for writing
No One Is Self Made?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Before I answer that question, can I just say I'm
so excited to be on Therapy for Black Girls a second.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Time, second time visitor, second time.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I'm so so excited.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
But answer the question around the origin story how we
got here, Doctor Joy. I've wanted to write forever. One
of my earliest childhood memories, maybe six or seven years old,
I would tell my mom and sign her Mother's Day cards,
her birthday cards, her future Author and my first time
I remember doing that, I was maybe six or seven
(04:13):
years old. So this has been like a dream of
mine for the entirety of my life. And I think,
what's so incredible about this time now? I couldn't have
written this book ten years ago. I couldn't have written
this book five years ago. This book is all about
divine timing because it's all about building community. And I
(04:34):
think we're in a place now where it's less about
talking about community. I think we realize how much we
needed and no one is self made is talking about
how to be in community, because for me, community will
be and always has been the thing to save us.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So first of all, I didn't know that story until
I read the book about you signing your cards is
your Future Author? Was so sweet and so like I
feel like manifesting, right, because that feels like very much
a you, thing that you would have done at six
years old. And I think we often think about community
really in terms of like personal stuff, right, Like, so
you think about your friendship circles, you think about like that.
(05:14):
I think what is unique about the way that you
talk about community is that you also talk about the
impact it has in terms of entrepreneurship and the success
of businesses. So can you talk a little bit more
about the need for community, especially as it relates to
economic success.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Absolutely, I think the model for our community in particular,
or in a group that's deemed as a minority, collective economics.
Group economics is the way forward. As business owners, I
can only imagine where I would be if I had
the mindset that I have now.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I knew to build in community, but I didn't.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Necessarily know how to do so in twenty sixteen when
I was building a village market, I didn't really understand
the functioning. The functionings of success is contingent upon how
having a clear vision and values aligned ecosystem, and so
I think for entrepreneurs business owners, it's the model. It's
(06:09):
the model of how do we pull our resources, our
money together to go after bulk bides of inventory. How
do we pull our money together to go after office space,
warehouse space, How do we pull our money together to
share a fractional COO, a fractional CPA, all these things.
Because when you're first starting, you don't necessarily have the
(06:30):
capital to afford all these things. But we can do it,
and we can afford it together and beyond those tangible things,
there's nothing like having an ecosystem, a community of people
that understand what you are doing. So being in community
with like minds and sharing your startup journeys, sharing the
hard days, stressful days, it's nothing like it. It's a
(06:53):
place of resolve and it's also a place of solution.
I've been able to have many tough conversations with you
about business, about oh, doctor Joy, this is going on,
and we problem solve in real time together.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
That is what community is, and that is what I
want us.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
To start building and thinking about and putting that as
our framework on it as and how we build hmm.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
You know, I appreciate you bringing in that example because
I'm remembering and reflecting on some of the very difficult
conversations we've had about like what does this even mean?
Like how do we find ourselves here? Like trying to
do these big girl things as we sometimes call it.
But I'm thinking about like when I first met you,
I wouldn't have been having very open conversations with you
about like finances and like, hey, I'm really struggling with
(07:38):
this thing in my business, which is something that you
address in no one is self made, right because in
order to say hey, let's go have on a CFO
or let's split a website design person, there's a level
of honesty and like safety, I think that has to happen.
So can you talk about how you get to that
place right in business? Because these aren't necessarily people that
(08:02):
you would have known from college, right, Like these are
newer relationships, Like you're a newer friend to me, right,
And so I think that there can be some heloitance
to talk very honestly about numbers and like the intricacies
of our business with people who may be fairly new
to us.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Absolutely, and that's a great call out. So business relationships
is like any other relationship. I don't think you come
in on the first day making out the demands of
what you want. I think is gradual over time. How
trust is built. The way that we've been able to
collaborate in business was not from the very first time
we met. But we knew when we first met. I
(08:38):
knew that there was something special about you and that
you would be in my life, and I allow that
to just happen organically. I think as we go into
a community, one thing that we can control for is
the intentions that we write or as you say, manifests.
But we can be very intentional with the type of
partners we want to attract, the type of people that
(08:59):
we want to bring. Again to me, that is step
one being able to identify the type of collaboration that
we want to have, and then secondly going out and
being in spaces of community of like minds. So it's
not going to every entrepreneur event. It's going to entrepreneur
events that speak to you. So I'm more of a
holistic entrepreneur, so I need the wellness piece. I need
(09:21):
that to be married with a conference that's also talking
about scaling. The reason why that's important to me. I
can imagine there's other people like me that's going to
be in that space because we all decided to go
to the same thing. And then thirdly, from reaching out
to people and saying, hey, you know, I would love
to cop on a zoom with you, learn more about
you as a person and I share more about me
(09:43):
than we began to form a relationship. I think what
happens after that is that either the relationship catches own
or it doesn't. But I do not believe that you
jump into relationships saying let's go buy a building together.
I think too soon, too soon. Vulnerability takes time, Trust
takes time. What I tell entrepreneurs and folks like I
(10:05):
was almost ten years ago, you don't have to knock
it out of the park with your first experience. I
think that we meet people and we say, I finally
met doctor Joy. I gotta tell her everything I got
to work with her today. I think we have to
trust the evolution of relationships. I think we have to
trust that if you build organically, if someone reaches out
(10:25):
and talks to you from a real place, doctor Joy,
of just recognizing the gifts that you have and telling
you thank you for creating therapy for black girls, I
believe that is a deeper way to start saying I
see you in the ability of being seen. I think
we get to see other people. I love more warm
approaches rather than coming again hot with all these big
(10:47):
demands of what we want from business partners.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So you talk about in the book, like the importance
of recognizing other people's gifts and like trying to kind
of hire from within your village as much as possible.
I feel like we've had other conversations not you and I,
but me and other guests on the podcast, just about
some of the difficulties with boundaries when like you blend relationships. Right,
So your sister works in one of your businesses, you
(11:11):
have another business with two of your really close friends,
So you've really done the work of like multiple relationships
with people in your life. Can you share some about
how do you manage boundaries and like what kinds of
maybe difficult conversations have you had to have with those
people when you're extending a current relationship to from personal
to now business first?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Can we talk about boundaries?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
It's necessary in everything, and it's necessary and business is
necessary when you are a leader in the world because
so much is incoming and so much is outgoing. And
so I've structured my life almost there's a fortress around
me to make sure that my mental health is strong,
my spiritual health is strong as well. But yes, I've
been able to partner with two friends, Juel and Tracy,
(11:57):
for our company three ten Studios. My sister, Yolanda is
my operations manager for the village. None of these relationships
were premature. What's so beautiful about Yolanda leading the way?
Yolanda is an impeccable business woman. She is so skilled
in the retail industry, and how that relationship happened, meaning
(12:20):
she decided to come drain me on the mission.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
She was helping me interview people.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
And we couldn't find the right fit. And if y'all
read the book, you're going to learn all about this.
But we couldn't find the right fit. And it hit
me one day, doctor Joyd. I was like, we're sitting
and interviewing and a person I need is a person
has always been consistent, honest, hardworking, shared within herself the
(12:47):
same values that I have about treating people, and also
has the experience to do what I'm striving to do.
I didn't have to look anymore. I call Yolanda and
I said, I think I've been looking for you.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
You.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I think we've been interviewing people and we can't find
anyone because it's you. And she made the decision in
less than four to eight hours to uproot her life
and moved to Georgia to be on this mission with me.
And the level of trust that we have in each other,
it is beyond the physical sisterhood of sharing parents. It
(13:26):
is a sisterhood of what we are committed to and
bringing forth in a community. So I didn't just get
to hire a sibling. I got to be on a
mission with one of the best in the industry who
so happens to be my sister. And for Jewel and Tracy,
we've been friends now for a number of years and
this is our first time going on a venture together.
(13:47):
Because the timing was perfect, we didn't even overthink investing
in three ten together. Tracy found a building, reached out
to Jewel, reached out to me. We met at our friends' venue.
We sat there and we talked maybe two to three hours,
and we made a decision that we were going to
(14:09):
do it. It was much more than business. We all
have respect for each other. So I think if you're
going to bring a family member or a close friend on,
you have to make sure that they have respect for
you as the business woman that you are or the
businessman that you are. For all our listeners, you have
to have people that understand that you are on a
mission and on a path, and they respect that you
(14:31):
are the person that's appointed to do it. They're willing
to work alongside you. I have a profound respect for Jule.
I have a profound respect for Tracy and they share
the same with me, And we knew that we could
open three ten and do something and set a presidence
of what it means to put your money together and
physically go do something and not overthink it.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
But for me, the.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Boundary always begins and ends with love and respect.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
More from our conversation after the break, we talked a
little bit about like why it feels like your book
is so important, especially in this time you and I
have not had this conversation. I purposely not talk to
you about this conversation because I wanted to save it
(15:19):
for the podcast. But you know, in the past couple
of weeks we have seen all of these rollbacks of
DEI programs. Specifically, I think Target, right, so, I think
Target has felt the most impactful in terms of the
Black community because I think it, at least outwardly, there
were such an incubator for new black businesses, right, Like
(15:40):
I know they have like put on the map some
of these brands that we all love now and like
we love that we can find it in Target. And
so lately I've been observing these conversations around like how
do we continue to support like these small business owners
if we make the choice not to support Target, And
so it feels like there is not like confusion about
(16:01):
whether we continue to support the business owners. It feels
like the confusion is about how and what is most
impactful to me. It feels like this is an inside
versus outside conversation, though it's hard because there is no
real place for an inside conversation. I feel like we
are trying to muddle through it right, like we're trying
to figure out, like what is the best path forward?
(16:23):
And this is how I feel like our books are
in conversation with one another, because I do feel like
there is a way for us to come to each
other in love, even though this is a messy situation
we're all trying to figure out, and I think sometimes
that is lost. And so I would love to hear
your thoughts about how do we move forward, because you
know so much of your platform is like around collective economics,
(16:45):
and it feels hard to do that when we can't
really get on one accord about like what the path
forward looks like.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, and thank you for asking me that question.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I share in the overwhelming feeling that I feel that
many of us had with Target. We were like, oh no,
not Target, not Target.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Because yeah, not tar Jack, not tar Jay.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
But you landed on Why it mattered, it's because how
they stood, it's how they stood out is the bold
steps that they were taking to ensure that diversity, equity,
and inclusion were power statements well, an affirmation of how
they were going to coexist with us in the world.
And for them to roll back that, it's like, auh,
(17:34):
you were doing so well standing, why must you sit
now when we need you to stand? And because of that,
it left our community in a sense of discombobulation. Some
felt in many feel Target would never get a dollar
of mine again. Others may feel only black brands would
(17:55):
get my money at Target. But I think what many
people feel is a sense it's a betrayal, and either
one of those solutions or how we decide to move
is a sense of betrayal there because we expected better
for a corporation that said they understood our value, and
that is a betrayal, being a let down of values.
(18:18):
I want to remind all the incredible listeners not everybody
participated in the montgovernment bus boycott.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I know it.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
It appeared like we were all on the same page.
But we don't know what those closed door conversations were being.
We don't know how many doors would slam, how many arguments,
how many tough conversations.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
We don't know that.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
So what happens on social media we get to see
it played out loud. We don't have the safety of
privacy on social media because I do believe that people
have to respectfully and can respectfully disagree with each other.
But what broke my heart joy is that we began
in this process to turn our folks on each other
(19:01):
when the focus should have been solely on these corporations.
We began to attack each other, and that is not
the solved. We can respectfully disagree, but we have to
remember that we are not each other's enemy. We are
not the people that created this. So there is no
time to then start to tear down your sister or
(19:22):
your brother. We are one functioning body that may have
different ideas on what the body needs, but we are
one functioning body. So I have a great deal of
respect and empathy that this has been a trying time.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
But I also want us to know that this.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Is a trying time that we did not create in
order to exist in this moment. And to survive this moment,
we have to recenter our gaze not on each other,
but on.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Who was the steward of this discord.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
And it wasn't us. And so I write about the
book the power of our Words. I write about the
book and how that we must hold each other with
delicate hands even if we disagree.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Because that's okay.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
It's totally okay to disagree, but it's not okay for
us to become harmful with our words and with our
fingers towards each other.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
M Yeah, And I really appreciate you saying that, because
it does feel like that is very much the function
of white supremacy, right like that, now we are fighting
with one another, and the onus is not on the
corporations anymore, right like now, it is us figuring it
out for ourselves. So I really appreciate that. I want
to take a step back and think about where did
this idea that we had to be self made even
(20:38):
come from? Where did this idea of that's the only
way that success looks is that you are self made
and like nobody helped you to get there.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I think our country unfortunately sits on the foundation of individualism,
and I think if its seats in the roots of individualism,
then you're going to have things like self made. And
I would tell you in our own community, when we
call each other self made, I think the only intention
there is to say I'm proud of you. You did that,
you made a way out of no way, as my
grandma would say. I think that is what our intentions
(21:10):
are in that. But I think as a culture, as
a consciousness, we are communal people.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
So even on my.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Best day in business, even with the release of no
one is self made, even with sisterhood heels, there are
many players that contributed to us being able to write books,
to own businesses, to be leaders. When we champion self made,
I believe we erase those people, and that is not
(21:38):
our intention. I believe that we erase the players who
were so influential on our journey. But I think we
get in as a country and we're talking about business owners.
I think self made comes from an individualistic mindset, and
that individualistic mindset is causing peril in our community. We
need to shout to the raptors that we are a
(22:00):
village made, that I'm a reflection of a number of
people who assisted in my greatness, and I'm not taken
away from the level of self determination, self reliance it
takes to achieve the things that we've achieved. You must
answer the individual call in your life. But I also
know that there are many people that assist us on
(22:22):
our best day and also be there for us on
our worst day. And that is what I'm hoping that
our community get back to. We must return to community.
Community is the only thing that would propel us forward,
and we have to divorce divorced mindsets of individualism. We
have to divorce constructs that have never pushed us forward
(22:45):
but hold us back. It is not good enough for
one of us to succeed. It is to our betterment
that we have a functioning body that many of us
are rising at the same time.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
And that's the story that we're telling.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
The other book, you talk about like six different rules
that you feel like are important for a community to
be successful or for a business to be successful, and
I really love the breakdown of that. So would you
talk about those six different types and how people might
figure out like who they are within their own communities.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I don't want to get too much away to our listeners,
but I will say for people who feel they are builders.
I wrote something for you, people who feel that they
are those that can cast and see a vision into
a future.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Futurist, I wrote something for you in this book.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
The reason why I broke it and broke down these six
functionings of a community because in order for us to
build in community, we have to know where our gifts lie.
In order for me to know that if I'm a
futurist and a builder, and I need to make sure
that I attract more cheerleaders, that I attract more observers, y'all,
(23:56):
I'm giving y'all nuggets in a book, more observers in
the village. You have to know what you possess in
order to know what you need. And so I'm hoping
as people come to that chapter, I hope that you
also reminded that your gifts are powerful and needed. So,
if you function as a cheerleader, you have power and
(24:17):
being a cheerleader. If you're functioning as an observer, we
need all your wisdom. If you're functioning as a futurist,
make sure you're a partner with a builder so we
can make sure those things that you're envision they actually
come to be But the reason why doctor Jorye this
chapter and breaking it down meant so much to me
(24:38):
is because I meet people often that say, doctor Key,
I don't even know where to start a doctor Key,
I don't really know what gives the talents that I possess.
I got six for you, and I bet they're somewhere
in that six you will see yourself, and there's somewhere
in your six you're going to see other people in
your community.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
And as those people begin to come to your.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Mind, I need you to write their names down, because
you could be writing a blueprint for your team. You
could be writing a blueprint for the community that you're
going to foster and create.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
You talk about this, and I really appreciate that, because
you're talk in the book about not really feeling afraid
of the vision once you had it right. And I
think that that is where a lot of us get stuck,
that we kind of start thinking about something. It's like,
I don't even know where to start with this. This
feels really scary. What would you tell people about pushing
past any fear they have along that vision?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Absolutely, listen, so many people have done things scared and
they did it anyway. I will say this in twenty
twenty five. I need you to do it, afraid if
you're consistently getting the vision and it keeps coming back
to you and back to you. One of my favorite
(25:54):
movies is The Color Purple, and I remember sug Avery
talking about it. She can't sleep at night, and she
wonders why, because God is trying to tell her something.
If you are an entrepreneur and that vision keeps coming
back to you and you can't sleep at night, it's
because there is something for you to birth.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
It is something for you to do.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Let you hear from me. You are capable of doing it.
And there is no such thing as a perfect process.
There are moments when you get full body yess and
then the world be like, no, sit down, No, I
need you to stand back up. I need you to
stand back up because this is a critical time.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
For us to be alive.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I think it is upon our destiny, doctor Joy, to
be alive at such a time as this. And so
if you are the person that nagging thing keeps coming
in twenty five, in twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven,
we need you to do it.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
This is such a time for us to be alive.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
But I am so inspired in fuol by it, So listeners,
all the collective, I need you to build anyway.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I need you to build anyway.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
One other thing that I was really inspired by in
the book is that you are very transparent about mistakes
that you have made along the way, right, And I
think a lot of times people who are on the
outside don't know that, like, of course you're humans or
you're making mistakes. But I think sometimes we mask it
really well, like people just don't know the inner workings.
So what can you say that you've learned about making
(27:29):
mistakes as entrepreneurs that you would maybe want other entrepreneurs
to know.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Yes, first, I'll say the reason why I wrote that
chapter in such a way, with such level of vulnerability,
because we need to start to humanize success. So when
others have set back to what the perception of failures,
you can say, oh wait, doctor Key had hard moments,
(27:55):
doctor Joy had hard moments, and keep thinking of entrepreneurs
because in our truth telling, we empower other people to
be perfectly imperfect. So I wrote that chapter from an
open space in my heart because I want people to
see the human and the humanity and what it means
to build something, and the hard stuff for me and
(28:19):
those tough lessons I've learned the reason why I can
get on here and talk to you about them now,
doctor Joy. I just allowed them to empower me. I'm
in a place in my life and my headset in
mind space is that if I go through a hard moment,
I just want to know the lesson. I want to
know what is this moment trying to reveal to me
(28:41):
about myself, less about people, but about me, Because I
think as we get to know and understand ourselves more,
we can better discern people. But we have to know
and do and have a strong understanding of who we are.
But I really take my lessons on my hard lessons
on the chin, and sometimes I take my hard lessons
(29:02):
in my prayer room, and sometimes I take my hard
lessons to save spaces of my friend groups. And sometimes
I take those hard lessons to my family and those
who I know that I can confide in. But I
don't allow those lessons to just sit. I apply them
so I can ensure that I am building better and
(29:24):
that I understand why I experienced it so I don't
make the same mistake again. I just open myself for growth,
I don't learn lessons and also have the perception that
I've somehow I'm at the pinnacle and I never have
a hard moment again. The other part about experiencing hard
things is know that you can survive hard things. So
(29:45):
every tough lesson, especially as I was writing that chapter,
I remember in my draft stage, I told myself, and
you survived it, and you are still here. You are
here and you're even better. So for entrepreneurs and people
change agents who are building and they you may be
experienced in a very rough moment right now, you will
(30:07):
survive it. And if you sit with the lesson and
you ask the lesson, what are you trying to reveal
in me? I believe that you will have some truths
that's edifying to you to ensure that you're on a
more focused and structured path.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I think one of the things that sets you apart
as an entrepreneur and like the way that you have
built your business and also the businesses that you have
helped to build and help to set a path forward for,
is that there has always been a very intentional focus
on wellness and mental health. Why has that been important
to you to be a cornerstone in so much of
the work that you've done.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Because that is the most important thing. I am not
on a path, doctor Jordan. I want our people to
be economically liberated. I want to be economically liberated, and
I also think what should come before that, what should
lead that charge, is making sure that we have peace
(31:03):
in our soul, that our bodies are well, that our
mindsets are well. That is the difference and the clear
distinction of how I do and build all my work.
I take this as a holistic approach. I do not
want the wealth without the help.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
And if I have to.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Make a conscious choice, Doctor Joy, if I got met
with key, you can have health, you can have wealth.
I'd be like Hollo wealth because I got to be
here sound mind and sound body. I want to love
the body that I'm in. I want to have peace
in my mind. And for us to achieve economic liberation,
(31:42):
for us to heal the collect the body, then healing
has to be in the roots of what we are building.
It's no time now to only focus on building businesses
and scaling. You can't simply do that any longer. The
time now is like, let me ensure that I an well,
because if I one well, and I'm partnering with someone
(32:03):
else will then we have an opportunity to do something transformative.
It's no longer the time for just I'm just focusing
on seven eight, nine figure companies. That is not our focus, y'all.
That is not the mission. The mission is to be
in well mind, body, spirit, and soil that would lead
(32:25):
the type of entrepreneurs and founders and leaders. And the
way that we would interact with those on our team,
the way that we would position ourselves in community, the
way that we will operate in the privileges that comes
with success, the way that we would handle when hard
moments come when you're successful, those hard moments when you
grow and reach another stage nobody prepares you for. It's
(32:47):
also hard. But if you've done the spiritual work, if
you've done the mindset work, then you would have a
spirit in a community. Then nothing would be able to
break and shake.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
You one for my conversation after the break. So support
is a verb is one of your most popular mantras,
One of my favorite things that you say, and it's
really permeated like your work with the village and comes
(33:19):
through clear in the book. What does it look like
to move towards a more active, kind of intentional mode
of supporting one another versus maybe more passive.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Great question. Listen, Michelle Obama.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Our forever first Lady, said, it is the time to
do something. Support is a verb, is about action, y'all.
It is time for us to live a life where
we are actually doing well. We're actually physically operating in
a community that if you love black businesses, then you
(33:54):
should be patronizing those businesses. If you are passionate about
getting people registered to vote, then make sure that you're
getting people registered. If you're passionate about helping people with
their wellness, you need to make sure that your social
media content is actually saying that in doing that. This
(34:16):
is the time to be highly activated. I want us
to have time to reflect. I want us there's power
in stillness. But after we have been still, there's power
in the way that we do things. Back to the
question on wellness, When you take care of yourself, when
the's time for you to activate, when it's time for
you to do the way the force that you're going
(34:38):
to be because of the way that you're operating, in
the way that you're mobilizing. But this is a time
of profound action. Nothing passive about this time that we're in. Now,
we get to be transformative, and that is the pursuit
I believe that we should all be on now.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
So I think in conjunction with our action, we know
that there are some systemic beg briers that also need
to change. What kinds of things would you lay out
for people who to have a conversation with like their
legislator or people who actually have the bower to change
some of these systemic things? What kinds of changes would
you like to see in the interest of black businesses?
Speaker 3 (35:16):
And I'll say this, doctor Joy, I write in the
book a great deal of those systemic things. So I
want the readers to know that I grounded this book
and a great deal of research, because we're not writing
from a place of with reality sitting on the other
side of it.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Reality is what it is.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
And so Number one, the way that we can advocate
for black businesses in a black community is showing up
for council meetings that we are aware of what's going on,
or referendums and things that's on the ballot.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
All of that is awareness.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
The more we show up, the more that we can
advocate for, because then people are not making decisions When
our voice is not in a room, so many decisions,
so many decisions are made for us because we simply
would not show up. But as I see that there
has been a lot of conversation on federal contracts and
(36:13):
removing exclusion for minority owned businesses, we need to be
fighting that. We need to be fighting against that. So
much wealth in this country has been made due to
federal contracts. So we need to be asking on the city, state,
federal level, what are we doing about contracts, How are
(36:34):
we going to ensure that they're equitable, and what does
it mean to roll back the How does that impact
my black business? How does that impact me? And what
are you going to do about it? And so I
think we have to be very clear on what we're
fighting for. But you raise a good point. I do
think it's time for us to get into our friends
(36:55):
groups and grow that group and we start to think
about what are our demains. As people are asking us
to vote for them, then what do we want from them?
If they want our vote and they will work for us,
then what should they be working for. So our conversations
have to start changing in our friend groups and in
our community groups. We need to start thinking about the
(37:18):
things that we want and it can't be the thing
that will only benefit you. We're moving away from individualism.
What is the thing that you may have a privilege
and it doesn't even impact you, but you know that
it impacts a number of people. That is what we
need to be fighting for. And so doctor Dreward put
the onus back on the community here. Our conversations with
(37:43):
our friends need to evolve and we need to think
about we can't only operate from the places of our privilege.
Privilege gives you, even if you don't want it, a
blind spot, that blind what have you advocating for things
that only advance you but would impact the body? So
(38:06):
we have to get away from our privileges and think
about what is best for the body. That's what we
need to operate and start asking and holding people accountable for.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
So, how do you pop that people engage with no
one and self made? And what are maybe some of
the major takeaways you'd hope they leave with.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
You know, doctor joy, I wrote this book and you
read it. I wrote this book in a way that
it is very conversational. I don't think that there is
any space in this book that is hard to digest.
I did that intentionally. So the first thing that I
want the reader to feel is love. I wrote this
(38:50):
book from a place of love for our community and
my belief in what our community can achieve. I also
wanted to write this book for people who feel extremely
lonely and lost. I want this book to be your companion.
You got my voice in your hair, you are not
You got an advocate. I also want readers to take
(39:13):
away from this book that they begin to identify and
ask themselves from reflection questions. Every chapter ends with deep
reflection questions that really moves you to action. Because by
the time we make it to chapter eight, the way
that you're thinking, the way that you're moving, I hope
will change or evolve or being handsd. But what I'm
(39:37):
hoping the biggest, biggest, biggest takeaway, Doctor Joy, I want
the readers to know that the stuff that I'm talking
about this is not something that can happen thirty forty
years from now.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
It can happen now.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
It's just a sum of our daily choices that we
can experience the warmth of our community now. It depends
on how we decide to move. It depends on how
the steps that we take to heal. And so this
book for me is a love offering from the center
(40:10):
place of my heart. I believe so much in our community.
I see us, and I only leave inspire. I have
goose bumps when I think about the goodness that we
possess as a collective in what is possible if we
operate as one moving body towards with the same values,
(40:36):
in the same way that we decide this is the
way we're gonna treat each other. This is the way
that we're going to operate and take care of the body.
When we build businesses, we're gonna make sure that we
treat people well who decide to be on our team
with us. All of that is a palm of our choices.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
I think that many people will leave very inspired and
move to action, as you hope they will.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
They read it.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
So let us know where we can stay connected with you,
and where can we get our copy of No One
Is Self Made?
Speaker 3 (41:07):
No One Is Self Made is available everywhere books are sold,
so all those major major retailers. I also want you
to check with your local bookstores. Shout out to local
but you can go to No One at Self Made
dot com no Www, No One at Self Made dot Com.
You can learn a little bit more about the book
and you can purchase the book. Y'all purchase the book.
(41:29):
If you want to join me on tour, it's laid
out there. I hope to see you in real time.
And if you want to keep up with me on
social it's doctor Keith Hallman. I spend the most time
on Instagram and a little time on LinkedIn, but I
hope to be able to connect with you as you
read the book and Doctor Joy, I wish I want
to tell you thank you. Thank you for being my friend,
(41:52):
thank you for being my sister. And when you all
read the book you will see what I mean that
Doctor Joy is is sisterhood and action. But you got
to read the book to see what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Such a little call outs and E says there, But
thank you so much. I appreciate you joining me and
do hope again that people will go out and grab
their copy of No One Is Self Made. Thank you
for being here. I'm so glad Doctor Key was able
to join me for this conversation to learn more about
(42:27):
her or to grab a copy of No One Is
Self Made. Check out the show notes at Therapy for
Blackgirls dot com slash Session three ninety eight, and don't
forget to text this episode to two of your girls
right now.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Did you know?
Speaker 1 (42:40):
You can leave us a voicemail with your questions for
the podcast. If you want to suggest other movies or
books for us to review, or even give us thoughts
around topics you'd like to hear discussed on the podcast.
Drop us a message at Memo dot fm slash Therapy
for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind.
We might just answer your question on the podcast asked.
(43:01):
If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit
our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory.
This episode was produced by Elise Ellis and Tyree Rush.
Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much
for joining me again this week. I look forward to
continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care,
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!