Session 402: Flipping the Tables & Owning Our Futures with Alencia Johnson

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

(00:57):
for joining me for session four or two of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation afterword from our sponsors. It goes without saying that
the ninety two percent understood the assignment during the twenty

(01:19):
twenty four election, But what are we to make of
it when we still end up exactly where we are today,
struggling to make sense of our place in the world,
with leaders in legislation increasingly being utilized against us. You
can't deny the tables have turned, but how can you
resist joining me? Fresh off the release of her new book,

(01:39):
Flip the tables. The everyday disruptor's guide to finding courage
and making change is a Lindsia Johnson. She's the founder
of ten sixty three West broad, a consultancy and media
company that connects organizations to purpose driven solutions. Serving as
a political advisor and strategist for President Biden, VP Harris,

(02:00):
Senator Elizabeth Warren, and Planned Parenthood, where she created the
Stand with Black Women initiative. She's uniquely equipped to dissect
exactly how we got here and what we can do
about it. During our conversation, we explore what it means
to be a disruptor and how nuanced black women's roles
are as we prepare for a trying four years, from

(02:22):
DEI bands at the supermarket to understanding authenticity in a
political campaign. Alyncia is sharing it all. This conversation is
a continuation of our reflection on the past, present, in
future of Black girlhood and womanhood. In celebration of four
hundred episodes of Therapy for Black Girls. I'm so excited
for you to dig into this conversation. If something resonates

(02:46):
with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us
on social media. Using the hashtag TVG in session. Here's
our conversation. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Lindcia.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Thanks for having me. I'm so glad to be here.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, so before we jump into the conversation, I'd love
to hear a little bit more about your background. Can
you tell me a little bit about ten sixty three
with Broad and what got you into consulting.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
You know, it's funny because my background is political, and
there's always this like joke about how every person who's
in politics ends up being a political consultant.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
But for me, it actually was just.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
Kind of a natural next step to own some more
of my time and my space in my head. But
before I founded ten sixty three US BROAD, I actually
started my career in corporate communications at Geico and did
a lot of work around their internal work and then
some of their government relationships stuff.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
I helped the communications around it, and then I.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
Got what felt like the opportunity that propelled my entire career,
which was when I worked for President Obama's reelection campaign
in twenty twelve in Chicago. And that was such a
transformative experience, especially because I did a lot of work
with different surrogates from CBC members to your favorite entertainers,
understanding how messaging really works because of who the messenger is.

(04:09):
And then I went to Planning Parenthood for six years
their national office.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
I had several different roles.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
I think a lot of people may be familiar with
framework that I helped found there, the stand with black women.
People see those T shirts and bags everywhere, and so
I really spent a lot of time getting Planned Parenthood
in spaces where we could have honest conversations about what
reproductive freedom looked like for women who look like me,
for people who are not white, cis gender, heterosexual women,

(04:38):
and all of our intersections how that works. And so
from advocacy, entertainment politics was doing all of that there.
And then I went to work for singer Elizabeth Warren
and was her national director of public Engagement for her
presidential And then after that, I was like, what do
I do. It's the pandemic and I don't know if
I want to get on the hamster wheel of a
campaign the general election and Biden's campaign in twenty twenty.

(05:02):
I really like this, some of this like entertainment, cultural,
corporate stuff I'm doing to get these institutions to really
show up for not only their consumers, but literally like
explain what their values are. And so I became kind
of an accidental entrepreneur. I had my LLCA because it's
black women. We're always ready, right, And so I said, oh, okay, well,

(05:23):
I guess I'm consulting now, this is what I'm doing.
And that's how I started ten sixty three US Broad,
which is named after the street that my grandmother, my
late grandmother, the last address that she had, and so
that's what ten sixty three Wes Broad is. And then
under that umbrella, I also was a senior advisor to
President Biden's twenty twenty campaign when he was vice president,

(05:44):
and then fast forward twenty twenty four, also did some
work for Vice President Harris's campaign as well, and so
have done a lot of projects that that's a little
bit of my bio. Yeah, a lot. Love it.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
So many different interesting but also intersecting kinds of areas
that you're really being operating in. So I'm really excited
to have this conversation with you because I'm really fascinated
by like the psychology of voting and like messaging, which
it sounds like you have a lot of expertise in
so can you say a little bit like a one
oh one when you're working on a campaign and like

(06:18):
serving as an advisor for a campaign, like what kinds
of things are you trying to think about in terms
of voting and getting your message to the people that
you hope to get to vote for you.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
I love that question because I don't work for any
elected official. Right now, We're gonna have some real talk,
you know, because as a black political strategist and this work,
sometimes we also get frustrated that our ideas of reaching
voters isn't the one that the campaign manager decides to
approve and go forward with. I think for me, as

(06:51):
I'm looking to engage voters, I first want to build
trust with them, and that actually starts by listening. Sure,
there are policy positions that obviously have like the research
and the background and the understanding of knowing how a
community can actually advance towards equity, opportunity, justice, all of that.

(07:12):
But if you roll into a community that isn't ready
to embrace you without really understanding their concerns or how
they even show up around an issue, they're gonna put
you on mute, not even that they're gonna slam the
door in your face, right, And so the best part
of strategy is to do some research and do some polling,
and do some I actually prefer focus groups instead of polling.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
People talk about polling a lot, but think about it.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
I know these phone numbers that are calling me are
probably some polster, and I sometimes don't answer it. I'm
in the middle of this, So imagine other people who
you know, we talk about these spam text messages and
phone calls that people don't answer. You're not gathering them there,
but you can gather folks in focus groups, working with
community organizations and getting people around the table to listen
to them on how they're thinking about certain issues, what

(08:01):
they know about an election coming up. And then often
you find that the awareness and the literacy around government
and civics is very low in this country. Literacy is
low in this country, unfortunately, and so a lot of
times it's a matter of, Okay, how do I inform
them about not only election day, but let me step back,

(08:23):
what they're voting for and what this elected official not
just the president, but they're council members, school board member,
state's attorneys general, like what are these positions, what do
they mean? What does this ballot initiative mean? And those
are some of the things that I look for before
I even start crafting the message. And then I also

(08:44):
want to know who they listen to. There's a saying
I have of most of the time, it's not the message,
it's the messenger. And it's really hard to tell a
politician that they're not the best messenger for a lot
of communities. But I know my community, right, I know when, okay,
they've been talking about this random hairdresser that like everybody
listens to, or this person that everyone watches in this

(09:06):
television show, or this community voice. If they're actually going
to move people to action, you got to check your ego,
mister or ms politician and really get the messenger out
there that people already trust. And that is something that
I'm constantly looking for as well.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
So tell me a little bit about the battle to
kind of get the person that you're working for to
hear your side, right, Because in theory, they hire you
because you have this expertise with this community. But then
sometimes there is a difficulty with them listening. So what
kinds of things help you to kind of really argue
your point and kind of make them see your case.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
It's in I don't know if it's forty eight Laws
of Power, but somewhere in like those lists of things
that you can do to win people's arguments.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
I think for me, you learn.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
To play the people's ego and their stress, right, you
know what makes them light up?

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Right? And if I need to ask.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
You to step back from being the public face of this,
what am I giving you on the other end to
occupy your time or also elevate your voice around this issue?
But maybe in a different setting. Right, There's always some
trade offs, and then there's the very honest and frank
conversation about what the community needs. And when you're working

(10:23):
for elected officials or advocacy organizations and their leaders, you
kind of remind them that the end goal is to
actually get the services or get the win for these communities.
And if we have the research and data to show,
or we even have direct conversations that have told us
this is what people need, you have to have that
tough conversation. But it takes a lot of courage and

(10:47):
shortness of yourself, which I write a little bit about
in my book With the Tables, and understanding that that's
going to be an uncomfortable conversation sometimes to tell someone
that they are not the best messenger. But we have
to have those uncomfortable conversations in order to get to
the win. And I would rather sit in my discomfort

(11:07):
with my boss or decision maker if that means that
the greater community in my community especially is going to
benefit from that. And so you also have to be
okay with getting uncomfortable. And I talked about it actually
a little bit in my book when I worked for
Elizabeth Warren and when I was at Playparenthoad when Cecil
Richards got rest her soul.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
You know, I worked for her too.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
At Plain Parenthead, we had very frank and difficult conversations
about race. And you know, I have to tell two
white women at times, you're not the best messenger here,
or we should have a woman of color making this
decision instead, and thankfully they are white women that listened.
But you know, you have to be comfortable with being
uncomfortable in those courageous conversations.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
So I think that we find ourselves that are very
I don't even know what the best adjective to use
about where we find ourselves in this in history, as
Black women in particular. And so when we think about
VP Harris's run recently, what do you think her campaign
and just who she was represents for Black women both
politically and beyond.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
I have so many thoughts on that question, but the
one that really comes to mind is there are a
lot of reasons our culture may not have been ready
for her because she not only represented a black woman,
or she is a black woman who is extremely qualified,
she's also a black woman who shows all the side

(12:38):
of herself, right, the fact that people were attacking her
for laughing, or that she cooks and that she dances,
and those are actually amazing qualities. And the reality is
our society doesn't want women, doesn't want people of color,
and that definitely doesn't want Black women to be multifaceted.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Right.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
They tell us that you can't be taken serious if
you have all these other parts of you, and they
make us hide them, right, they make us conform and
hide all parts of ourselves. But she didn't do that,
and I think that was very disruptive and something that
I feel, and I've heard from a lot of black

(13:17):
women have identified with, and I've heard from non black women,
they've identified with her on that part too. The hard
part for me and I actually asked people in the
party for years since she became the President Biden's vice
president actually when he selected her as his vice president's

(13:38):
running mate.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Is this party.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
Fully ready to support and protect a black woman in
this position?

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Right?

Speaker 3 (13:46):
We saw the attacks on President Obama, we saw the
attacks on Secretary Clinton?

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Are you ready for that intersection?

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Do we have the apparatus that is going toe to
toe with these outlets these concernsvative right wing you know,
creators and influencers that have these platforms, like we have
to really build a protective apparatus for a black woman
in this position. And the reflection of that is so

(14:14):
many of us, as black women have been in these positions,
these very visible positions. They've propped us up as leaders,
but then no one is ready to actually have the
difficult conversations of ensuring that there's protection there, right, And
some of that is also ensuring that the white people
who say that they support us are checking their own biases, right,

(14:35):
are okay with being having to answer to a black woman?

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Right?

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Those microaggressions that come up, And so I don't believe
that the party beyond the Democratic Party, our society, our
culture has fully embraced that just yet. But I do
think that her candidacy has disrupted the notion of what
a black woman is supposed to be, and it has
given us so much hope.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
And I believe that all of us are proud of her.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
And we don't blame what happened on the election on her.
I don't blame it on her. I mean was billion dollars.
I think there were other decision makers. I don't blame
it on her.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
And how do you feel like the results of the election,
How did that impact you both personally and professionally coming
into twenty twenty five? I imagine you know you had maybe
different plans if the election, if she had been elected.
How did that shape and impact you for twenty twenty
five and beyond?

Speaker 3 (15:33):
Oh all right, doctor Joy, I am now thinking about
the night election. I was at Howard and we were
so excited, and then the returns weren't looking the way
that we wanted them to, and I started to get
the same feeling I had in twenty sixteen at the
job at Center in New York, watching Hillary Clinton's returns

(15:56):
and we were hopeful. We were so hopeful. We all
then went out to the lawn. We were just we
were very, very hopeful. But it was a long drive home.
Even though from my house to Howard is eighteen minutes,
I felt like an hour. And I was sad, and
I could not get out of bed for two days.

(16:17):
Literally could not get out of bed for two days.
I turned off the news, even though I'm on cable
news often, I turned off the news. I cried. I
just if I got out of my bed, I was
on the couch, but otherwise I hadn't seen sunlight or anything.
And I finally pulled myself together that Thursday, and I

(16:37):
went for a long walk in my neighborhood, and I
had this very clear feeling, or very clear message from
God that it is time to take care of yourself
as a black woman. You have taken care of everyone
else as black women. The ninety two percent has taken
care of everyone else and told people what is true

(16:59):
and told people the path forward, and no one continues
to listen. And so you were going to be the
only person that saves yourself. And I'd already been in
this mindset of taking care of myself above all, because
in order for me to do this good work, in
order for me to show up for my friends and
family and loved ones.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
I have to be whole. But there was a very
clear oh no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
This resistance requires your rest, It requires your health, It
requires you to get your finances in order, it requires
for you to be so taken care of that you
are able to take care of other people. And then professionally,
you know, I have a book coming out in March,
so there were a lot of conversations people were having.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Had she one that I was like, Mmm.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
I want to put this book out in the world
because I think it really frames how we can be
disruptors of our own life, but then also in the
world around us.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
That gets us to a place where we.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
Are actually voting around our values, that we are showing
up around our values, and we wouldn't have outcomes in
the way that we did. And so professionally, to be honest,
things haven't changed too much, except for I do a
lot of political commentary and I ended up in October
disclosing my sexual assault story on national television on CNN,

(18:25):
and it was in the heat of an argument around
Donald Trump's latest accuser and the hundreds of survivors who
had endorsed Vice President Harris and I just ended up
disclosing that I too, am a survivor.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
And I didn't realize.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Until I got home, like the magnitude of that on
myself personally. Right I was getting all these thank you notes.
The producers in my ears were asking if I was okay.
One of the camera guys when I walked out the
studio he said, thank you for my sister, and I
was in this adrenaline high. But by the time I
got home, I felt the emotional weight of that, and
I felt that this space isn't as safe for me

(19:04):
as it used to be, this space of political commentary
that you know, ratings come from entertainment. You need people
to be entertained to stay in television, to stay tuned in.
And I had to really think about what does that
look like for me? So I'll still do it, but
am I going to do it as much as I
did before.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
And be in this heightened sense of like it.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Felt like fight or flight all the time, like I'm
fighting for my life. And to be honest, Doctor Joey,
I was by myself. It was Wooplitzer, and I don't
know if he identifies as a man of color, but
he was a man who was there representing the Donald
Trump campaign. There was another man reporter, and I was
there by myself, by myself. Nobody stepped in to acknowledge
what I said. No one stepped in and said, hey,

(19:50):
this argument is taken a term, and I said, I'm
not putting myself in that position ever again. So I
am reimagining the conversations that I want to have with
the public about our values, how we show up, because
politics is just an extension of our values, right, and
so how do we have those conversations. And that's something
that I am looking at and this current climate because again,

(20:13):
no one's coming to save black women, So I have
to think about myself, my own health, my own spiritual protection,
my own physical protection.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
And so those are some of the things that I
thought about.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, more from our conversation after the break, you know,
and Listina, you have so beautifully described I think what
has felt like a collective experience for black women, Like
it feels like many of us arrived at that same

(20:46):
place and there was no zoom meeting that we got
on right, like It just does feel like something switched
for a lot of Black women after the election result
in this ninety two percent has almost become this like
a rallying in some ways, And I love to hear
kind of your thoughts about, like how do we actually
make that useful and impactful?

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Well, what do you think, like what.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Are you making of this collective experience of black women
feeling a need to step back? Like I really got
to prior reprioritize myself so that I can kind of
be ready to resist.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
It literally was like the ninety two percent we were
all saying the same thing. It's like our souls had
a meeting, right, or it was like our ancestors gave us
the language, right. And I think it kind of started.
It probably started well before this, but I think the
outcome of the twenty sixteen election, there was a very
clear black women we good like y'all wanted to come
talk to us.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
We know what we're doing, we see the future.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
We will vote in ways and for people that we
necessarily may not love, but we know how the rest
of y'all in America will show up. So we need
to figure out the best way to reduce harm, right,
and I love that collective. I'm tapping out, And I
talked to a lot of girlfriends who are still directly

(22:00):
in political movements and they're like, well, we can't tap out,
and I said, but I can step back and take
care of myself, because you know, Audrey Lauren told us
about self care.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
It is literally political warfare, but it is important. Right.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
There's a reason that the book Rest Is Resistance is
a New York Times bestseller because there is this reality
that we are worthy of taking care of ourselves for
not to labor more, but just to take care of ourselves,
like that is our divine right to rest, to have joy.
And at the same time, it is such resistance under

(22:35):
capitalism to say I'm tapping out right, I'm not going
to continue to labor myself and the structure that doesn't
actually work for me, that actually does more.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Harm to me.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
And so most of the trends I did see, there
are a lot of black women who said, I'm not
tapping in at all, and I was like, but as
black women, we kind of just always do like we'll
show back up, right, And I do believe that it's
started the important courageous conversation for us to say publicly
that we are going to take care of ourselves first

(23:06):
because no one else will. And then I feel like
it reminded us of how important community is.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
It reminded us.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Of how important it is to get offline. It reminded
us of how important it is to maybe dive a
little bit deeper in our connections with other black women,
right to expand our circle of black women. Most of
my closest girlfriends are black women. But what are the
conversations that I'm having with them? Are we bringing more
people to the table, and how are we talking about

(23:33):
protection and navigating the way forward. I also believe that
that was an opportunity for us to realize that we
have to go offline. One go offline to protect ourselves
and our souls and recharge. But also we can't talk
about the strategy in public all the time. I mean,
now we're seeing that with the whole response to particularly Target,

(23:58):
Target and their di it's like black women are having
We've been knocked off of our equilibrium a little bit
because we have such a relationship with Target, and then
they have so many black women brands, And this conversation
has been interesting to follow. But the ninety two percent
have said, over history, we have carried this country. We

(24:21):
have literally birth this nation, even if we didn't want to,
we have literally given birth to this nation. And we
know america sins, and we know that at the intersection
of all of our identities, the harm will be the
hardest on us, and so we understand how to reduce harm.

(24:42):
So now we have to go into community and we
have to find that and do it in ways that
are underground and offline.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
So, as someone with a background in corporate communications, I
can imagine that all kinds of light bulbs have been
going on for you around. It's specifically right because tiet
is the most recent example of this, like all of
these companies coming out talking about rolling back DEI and
all of those things. How can you help us to
make sense of it?

Speaker 3 (25:09):
You said it so right, doctor Joe Target got us
fight each other. And also it's like mind boggling because
so often we yell, well, you should listen to a
black business owner, You should listen to the black person
who's going to be harmed the most. And then you
have all these black women, particularly black women brands, their
CEOs and founders are talking about the nuance here, and

(25:32):
folks are like, no, no, no, no, no, that's a cop oule.
You're trying to save a corporation. My analysis here, given
my corporate background, given the fact that I actually do still.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Work with corporations, is that we.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
Clearly have them been paying attention to their values. Folks
think that what I have gathered in the online conversation.
I know that this is not what most people mean.
But we're reducing DEI to just a response to George
Floyd's murder in twenty twenty. DEI has been around.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Well before then.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
We know that DEI has also never really been invested
in in the way that it should be, right like
it was always the let me give this black person
this title.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
They can go do some panels and then.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
They'll be happy and we don't actually have to really
do this inclusion work. And there were ways too, and
not saying that all companies have been that way, but
there are some companies who you could tell quickly.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
That they didn't care about it.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
They just wanted to do stuff on the surface to
do their annual report their stakeholders, their shareholders report to
say that they met these numbers. And so we actually
have to be better at understanding the values of these companies, right,
and if they have been able to maneuver through a
society and culture that's changing and kept up with the times,

(26:53):
the reality is DEI well as they're using it is.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
To be honest, I think.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
It's just these white conservatives way of getting away with
not saying the N word with a hard er They
are gaslighting us, right, like these are dog whistles. What
they are really talking about is black people. But we
know that a lot of DEI practices, whether in corporations
or even if you think about affirmative action benefit of

(27:22):
white women, right, benefits other people who are not white men.
And so there's going to be a rude awakening here.
I think we'll see companies double down, some get innovative
in the way that they talk about inclusion, and then
we'll see companies show their true colors. Like I was
really kind of surprised about the energy around Target when
I'm like, we should have been rallying against Walmart like

(27:45):
a decade ago. Again, as someone who has family who
has to rely on Walmart because that's literally the only
big box store where they live, even though they wouldn't
want to but like we got to talk about the
harms that some of these other corporations have done, and
so it was interesting to see that fight.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
And I said a few things that.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
Just uploaded a few statements on social media, But I
really want people in this moment, with all of the
things that are coming from Donald Trump, take a breath, literally,
like go outside, see some sun, touch some grass, take
a breath and realize we don't have to respond to everything.
That's a lesson that our black mamas gave us. You

(28:25):
don't have to respond to everything, because a tool of
the oppressor is to distract us and overwhelm us. And
that is literally what they are doing.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Literally.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
A one of the authors of Project twenty twenty five
says that they want to inflict trauma, that they do
want this to be a traumatic experience. So we have
to protect how we're going to show up. And I
say this in the book, but I also say this
to other people. Pick a couple of issues that you
care about and focus on those, but do not get
caught up in a tizzy about every little thing that

(28:56):
Donald Trump says, because it is going to be horrific
and that anxiety. You know better than I do what
anxiety does to us and stressed us to us. It
throws us off of the course to be focused on
what we can do right right.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
So you know your book is certainly relevant in this
political moment, but you started writing the book even before
this most current election. What were you seeing in observing
that made you feel like you needed to write this
guide post to how we can flip the tables.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
This is also part of why I work for myself,
so I can say whatever. And also I'm talking to
black women some with my sisters. This is the same stays.
So there were a couple of things. One, I love
me some Jesus, my dad's a pastor, and Jesus flipping
over tables in the temple like that crump Jesus, I
love him like that is not the benevolent white man

(29:50):
with blonde hair and blue wives that they like to
tell us who he is. Now, I like that man
who cares about the least of these. And so there's
that spirituality, right, spiritual practice.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
And then at the beginning of the pandemic, this is
where the concept came from.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
In between working for Senator Warren taking some time off,
but I was at home with my family and then
starting working, I was just like, God, what is it
that I am trying to do?

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Why haven't I gotten out of my own way?

Speaker 3 (30:17):
And yes, I've done a lot of amazing things, but
thirty two at the time, I had done a lot
of amazing things, but I still felt as though I
wasn't going after my dreams for my life. And then
I realized the connection to me being courageously myself is
connected to my purpose to show up and disrupt in
my community. And so I had to disrupt myself as

(30:41):
someone who was diagnosed with OCD at fifteen years old,
and I had had a couple of panic attacks, one
that led me into a very intensive outpatient therapy one
summer for like.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
Over a month.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
I had to step back and say, wait a minute.
I've been in therapy, I've got all these tools. Maybe
I gotta start laning on myself a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Maybe I need to.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
And this is not you know, pushing or seeing that
we don't need that support, because I do believe you
constantly need that support. But at some point I have
to actually take responsibility for the actions. And I can't
sit here and say, oh, I can't wait till I
talk to my therapist next week. Well, lindsay you teage
face the mirror and actually do the thing that you
all have been talking about for the past year, Like
you need to do the thing, and it's hard and

(31:26):
it's uncomfortable, but you can do it.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
And so once I realized.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
That I could get out of my own way, then
I realized I needed a bold vision for.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
Who I could be.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
When I started my consultancy, people wanted me to build
a big agency, and I felt that pressure.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Right.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
I immediately thought that I had to beat on this
hamster wheel again. And I was like, that's actually not
what I want to do. I would like to have
a certain lifestyle, and I want to lean in my creativity,
and I want to do all of these other things.
And then people would say that I sometimes dress too
flashy or a certain way that didn't look like a
political black woman, And I said.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
But there's room for all of that. So how can
I help us disrupt our vision?

Speaker 3 (32:02):
And then all of that courage and vulnerability can lead
us to being who God has designed us to be,
to disrupt the communities around us in ways that don't
require people to quit their jobs and become activists or
elected officials. You can disrupt right where you are, but
that starts with healing yourself. And I had to really

(32:22):
heal some things in my life from some childhood trauma,
through some relationships and seeing those patterns in order to
show up better in my community. And then it also
made me realize that so many of the people that
I've worked with in politics are very broken people and
unhealed people, and they inflict so much harm on one another.
And they'll say, oh, well, you know, I'm doing this

(32:43):
for the good of the world. I don't have time
to take care of myself.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
I'm doing this for the good of the world.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
Right, there's this self righteous like ego tied to it,
so they never really heal themselves, and then so they
continue to cause harm on other people who are trying
to do good in the world.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
And I was just tired of that, of seeing so
many people, like all of us.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Are broken, but yet we're trying to fix the problems
in the world, but we can't even treat each other well.
And so that is the ethos of how Flip the
Tables came about.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
I needed the book, and as.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
I started writing it, it felt just very Divine God
was like, this works whether Vice President Harrisons or not.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
This especially works given them where we are right now.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
And it gives people the courage to really heal themselves
and understand that the work that we have to do
it to lifetime work. I've always understood that, but I
think people get very sycklical. They're like, oh, this election
cycle and this president is supposed to change everything. None
of these politicians are actually going to save us. But
how can you build yourself up to be a disruptor

(33:44):
for the rest of your life and what that looks like.
And sometimes it is taking a little bit of break.
Like I took a little bit of the break one
time and was vacation in all year and was hanging
out and doing less political and advocacy work. And that's
okay because it helped me to come back to where
I am. And So that's the eth a Fop The Tables.
It's the book that I needed. I just finished the
audiobook last week and I was crying as I was

(34:05):
reading it and realizing that, Wow, you really do have
these tools for yourself, that this is really what a
Wancia needed at thirty years old. And the career transition
and even now when I'm questioning myself about certain things.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
You know, there really is something about reading your audiobook
that is such an emotional experience. I had that too,
and so many friends like read the audiobook and it's like,
I guess hearing your words aloud and like imagining other
people here like really makes it very real.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
I think it did.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
I mean, doctor Joy, I was crying through some of
the stories I was reading, and I'm like, but I
wrote it.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
I've worked through it.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
I'm on the other side, but like, it is beautiful, right,
And I hope the book gives people the courage to
embrace the going through that discomfort, Like it's okay that
we're messy and complicated and I really had to you
will appreciate us that as a virgo in four houses,

(35:05):
an only child, black women conditioned by this world. Of course,
I've been hard on myself, but I have learned to
really like accept myself for who I am, and I
hope this book gives people that permission to accept themselves
and it meets them right where they are.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
So in the book, you identify three critical areas that
you think are important for disruption self vision and community.
Can you say a little bit more about how those
all come together to disrupt Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
So, as I was talking about understanding really my purpose
and role in the world, I just realized that there
were some things I hadn't fully worked through, and particularly
in relationships, and not just romantic relationships, but like friendships,
and also thinking about, like, God, why am I self
sabotaging on my goals? My brain is wired differently with

(36:00):
and anxiety, and also there's some other things going on
here that are hindering me from moving forward, and like
why do I keep coming back to certain things? And
the reality is the longer that I am running away
from what it is that I am called to do,
the further I am from showing up in my community

(36:21):
the way I'm supposed to show up and facing ourselves.
What I also realize on all my work, facing myself
has been the hardest thing ever. I can stand up
in front of international stages on national television and talk
about how the world's supposed to be, but you want
me to be vulnerable about my feelings, but about what.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
I've been through.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
That's hard, but it's necessary and I believe that that
is the critical part of it. Because again I don't
want to send inflicting more harm on other people, and
I want all of us to be shining so brightly
in our lights. We are only able to light everyone else, right,
We are only able to light the path behind us

(37:00):
in front of us. And so that is why we
started with disruption of self. So that's the healing of yourself,
the unyucking some things and facing some things. They also
like alleviating that pressure that we put on ourselves, and
then disruption of vision. You know, we often talk, particularly
in movement spaces, there's always this conversation of like radical imagination.
You have to be able to envision something before you

(37:21):
can even go towards it. And I believe in dreaming
and all of that, but I had to really think
about dismantling the positions that people put us in as
black women, as professional black women.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
And who we are in society.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
And some of it is career advice, but it gets
to you know, it starts with death to the boss,
the like having a very real conversation with one of
my girlfriends of like I'm tired of achieving, I'm done,
Like how can I like rest more and have joy?
And you know, how that's been related to suicide rates

(37:56):
and all of these things, and how being booked and busy.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Everybody wanted to be booked and busy. What was that saying?

Speaker 3 (38:02):
You know, people wanted to catch flights and not feelings.
And I'm like, no, actually, I want to catch all
these feelings. I want to feel those. And you know what,
if I don't make Delta Diamond status again next year,
that's fine, Like that is actually fine. And I then
went through this chapter of being okay with being good
enough in some areas of life.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
I want to be great at everything.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
I can actually be horrible at certain things, right, those
things are okay, and like getting back to our childhood,
and that again gives us the courage to be who
we're supposed to be and also allows for us to
imagine something different, expand the table. And then once we've
just developed all of this courage, then of course we
can disrupt our community. Of course we can show up

(38:43):
in ways and understanding how we can spend our privilege.
And yes, we use that often to talk to white
people about spending their white privilege, and white women especially,
but all of us, depending on our settings, we have
some sort of privilege and we can use that for good.
There's an importance in exploring and expanding our capacity for
empathy and humanity. There's importance in our stories.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Right.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
I shared how I told my story on CNN and
the amount of people that that helped, right, Like why
it's so important for the ava juveneurs to tell certain stories.
Storytelling is so important, whether it's to one person or
one million people. And it also reminds us that we
have to just be the salt and be the light
in the world, as we are commanded in the Good Book.

(39:24):
And so I thought that journey is how it's supposed
to be. So often we start in the community, but
I can't show up in community well if I'm not well.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
More from our conversation after the break, So, Alyssia, it
is very clear that you have been very committed to therapy,
like you are talking as you are definitely like on
the other side of like a lot of these things

(39:53):
that you have been challenged by. But I can't imagine
that it was easy to get there, and as a
matter of fact, I know it was. So what would
you say to maybe other sisters who find themselves kind
of feeling like okay, achievement is what is equal to
worthiness and I'm not good enough or I'm not doing
enough to kind of be in some of these spaces.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
Oh, that's a great question, and it makes me think
about I also wrote a little bit about in the book. So,
up until I moved back to the DC area, I
never had a therapist who look like me. But I
knew I needed a black woman therapist who could just
understand the things that we deal with uniquely in the
United States. And that really helped me understand that my

(40:37):
hyper independence was a trauma response. The trauma response that
sometimes and I hear a lot of people say that,
but I want us to remind ourselves that the trauma
that we are experiencing, Yes we have personal stories, but
we are experiencing systemic trauma as well as a people,
and so like, there's only but so much that we
can solve for it ourselves, right, But the things that

(40:58):
are in our control we have to tend to. And
I had a therapist just asking me and actually found
her on your website. She would remind me that every
time something was really hard or something in my personal
life wasn't working out, I was going to achieve something else,
and I was like, Okay, I actually really don't want
to get another degree, although I do want to go

(41:19):
study religion just for my own personal edification, like I
want to go study more, right, but I don't need
to achieve anything else. And it made me really sit
with myself, and it made me realize that I actually
don't know how to connect with my emotions and the
way that I would want to. I can theorize about
my emotions a lot, but now I need to pay

(41:39):
attention to how my body's feeling and being mindful and
really focusing on that. And it really challenged me in
this iteration of where I'm at right now that black
women we do not have to achieve anything else. And
I was sitting in my apartment one time. The consultancy

(42:01):
was doing really well. You know, I was traveling, I
could buy things that I wanted, I was dating, like
I felt like things were aligned. But I actually was
sitting there and I was like, are you really happy?
Like are you content? What else do you need? And
I had to answer that question and interrogate where it
came from.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
And saying no.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
To people who are offering opportunities was really hard because
the people why you'd be so good at it? Yeah,
of course I'd be so good at it. But who
do I to prove myself to? Because if I continue
to achieve, what do they say, new levels, new devils, like,
it's still not a safe space for me. And so
what am I running from? And why am I running

(42:44):
from that? Right? And why do I feel as though
it's as a black woman. I can't say I want
love as a black woman. I can't say that I
want to not have to work forty hours a week
as a black woman. I can't say why do I
feel like I can't do all of that? Yeah, that's
because of trauma, and that's the space that I had
to get to. And now I'm on this journey of Okay,

(43:06):
you don't feel your emotions in the way that other
people do. I know some of that's because I'm a
virgo and I'm always gonna sit here and like think
about my emotions and not be super excited or not
be super sad. But actually I want to sit with
this and if I start crying, I'm gonna sit with
these tears, let them come.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
Right, And we've never.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
Been given that opportunity, right, I'm very sensitive to that, like,
this is very new for us. Our mothers didn't have
that opportunity, right, Our grandmothers definitely didn't have that. And
so that's also allowed for me to have grace with
my mom and the other matriarchs in my family, my
great aunts as we talk through things that I you know,
am learning, and you have grace with your family for

(43:46):
the decisions that they made, because black families make decisions
that you know.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
A lot of us will be talking about online.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
This was some trauma in my childhood, but I view
it from a lens of they are trying to protect
us from the trauma of the world.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Right, respectability was protection.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
Right, the decisions that they made were protection, and so
having that grace, like having that capacity for that has
been really helpful too. And being an entrepreneur in control
of my schedule so that I have the time in
space is extremely important. And so black women we have
to create this time and space for ourselves and we

(44:21):
can't fill it with just any and everything achieving anything else, Like,
we have got to sit with ourselves and it's okay
that we discover that I've been harmed, Right, it is unfair,
and don't immediately get over it. You don't have to
get over it, right, And so that gentleness with myself

(44:42):
has been really important, and I hope other black women,
I know through your podcast black women are feeling as
though they can be free and that too and don't
have to achieve as much more.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Mm hmm. So am Askia, what would you say, like,
what does this eruption look like when you are working
as a part of a larger system? Right? So, I
think there is some privilege of with entrepreneurship that you
can kind of make your own schedule and take the
clients you want or don't. But a lot of people
are working inside of larger corporate structures or government structures.
What can disruption look like in those spaces?

Speaker 3 (45:11):
Yeah, that's a great question. And I had to really
reflect on what did it look like when you were
in these rooms and you may have been the youngest
person there, the only black person there, the only woman there.
And some of that is asking questions and coming from
a place with some grace, but asking questions that provoke

(45:32):
other people to have to answer some of that too,
as they are dismantling DEI and coming after employee resource
groups which have been amazing spaces for employees to just
advocate for their needs, have to figure out how to
build community with one another so that you can make
some demands and ask of leadership, but their strengthen members. Right.

(45:56):
There's also I say this all the time. We are
hired for our job descriptions. So often we again, I've
gotten caught up there. So often we get sold by
the oh, we could see you growing here, we could
see you doing X, Y and Z.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
We love to embrace your creativity. At the end of
the day, they've.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Hired you for your job description, and to be honest,
it's okay to stick to that job description, and that
will disrupt the notion that, oh, the black people, we
can underpay them, keep them at a certain level, and
they're going to go above and beyond. Yes, it is
appropriate to go further at times, obviously when you're trying

(46:35):
to get promoted or whatever it may be. But sometimes
you literally have to say, hey, I get off a
five PM I'm leaving today, and that will make them
reorient their minds of like, wait a minute, this person
is extremely valuable or.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
You know what, we had.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Different expectations of them and maybe this isn't the right role,
and maybe we should shift things for them, right, or
maybe we should actually look at the reason that we
hired these people or hired someone and give them the
opportunity and the support that they need to be successful
where they are right. There have been tons of times
where I didn't feel supported and asked to do five
hundred things. Why Sally was asked to only do ten things?

(47:12):
But yet Sally was a director and I wasn't even
an assistant director, right, And so being in these positions
to courageously share these truths right to bring truth to
light are really important. I am a big believer in
labor unions. If you are able to join a union,

(47:34):
the labor movement is the reason that we have actual
laws to protect us as workers.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Now.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
Granted, they need to be updated from the wages, like
all of them need to be updated, but there is
like a resurgence of the labor movement. And the other
thing too, I would advise people, and this is what
I did when I worked at I actually hated the
job and I was ready to get into politics. I
spent time every single day thinking about, Okay, what skills
set is transferable to the ones that I want and

(48:02):
to the jobs that I want, and I had to
carve out time for myself to actually go find those
other opportunities. So often we get in this position of
I've been here for ten years and I owe it
to this company. We don't owe anything to these corporations,
and we have to have that mindset. The other thing too, is,
you know, I'm sure there are a lot of women
that are listening who are in positions of leadership and

(48:26):
who are actually the ones calling the meetings. Think about
who's at the table at that meeting, or think about
when you're invited into a meeting, who else is at
the table? Whose voices are there? It is so powerful
to say, oh, well, Jazzmin is new to this meeting, Jasmine,
what are you thinking? Even if she's the intern, Jason,
what are you thinking that? And itself, those little acts
of disruption are so powerful, and I know they seem

(48:48):
so simple, but they're actually incredibly important. And the last
piece is it pertains to what is happening in this world.
These attacks on black people. I'm gonna stop calling attacks
on da the attacks on black people. We've got to
learn to speak their language, and those empowers speak the
language of money. And white power. I'm never going to

(49:09):
speak the language of white power, but I will speak
the language of money, and we have to continuously show
the value of our dollar. There's a lot of research
out there and there's a lot of ability. I do
this with some of my clients of showing them their
consumer base.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
This is why you actually have.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
To invest in this community, because this is how women buy,
this is how black people buy, this is how they consume.
I would want them to invest because it's their values,
but these are corporations. We got to remove the desire
for these corporations to show up related to values. They
show up because of dollars and cents.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
And once I.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
Figured that out, I said, okay, so long as I
get to my end goal, we can get there however
we need to get there. But as long as I
get to my in goal, and that's more resource for
my community, I will speak your language of dollars and
cents so that we can get the resources that we need.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
So many more questions, lindsay, I have a ton of
things that I want to talk to you about, but
I know you don't have all day to spend with me,
but I would love for you to talk a little
bit about like where you see the role of black
women in the future of American politics.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
Well, honestly, I think a lot of issues that we're
having in politics, particularly on the left, on the side
of progress, because there are a lot of black women
who don't necessarily identify as Democrats, but our only side
of progress.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
There are a lot of conversations about what.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
Went wrong, And I'm like, what went wrong is you
all don't listen to black women. And I think that
black women in this moment continue to realize our power
so that we don't stop participating, right. And I do
think our role is to be those community educators, right
to talk to our family and our friends. And I

(50:49):
have to remind myself and my friends and I who
do this word all the time. We talk on television,
we talk on stages, But did we really talk about
this at our family reunion? Did we really talk about
this in our chat? And for us to be that
community voice that we always are and that yes it
is labor, but that's a labor of love of taking
care of our community.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
I'm all for us taking care of our community. And
I do.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
See us continuing to make so many wins. We have
two black women in the United States Senate. That's amazing.
That is amazing. I know the Senate is the Republicans
have the control of the Senate, and quite frankly, the
maps in twenty twenty six do not look good for
us either. But those two black women there so powerful.
We can't give up with those two women in those positions.

(51:34):
We've got black women who are winning states attorneys races,
we have black women just doing historic things, and so
I think there's so many of us who want to
continue to see those wins, and we have to pay
attention to them, and we have to get invested in
those campaigns. I will say this, Black women who run
for office usually don't raise the same amount of money

(51:55):
as a white man does. And so as we are
figuring out our budgets, especially over the next few years,
we should think through what is my political investment? Because
also as you invest in these politicians, you have a
say too, what's my political investment? I tie I also,
I mean at the budget my taxes, I also budget
for who I'm going to support. But really we are

(52:17):
going to be those community voices and those real life
examples of what it looks like to continue to participate
because so many of the ninety two percent. We know
that we're not going to win all the time, but
we have to continue to show up and participate. But
we will not have our labor be exploited. I think
we are over that. And we have to also continue

(52:38):
to talk about framing Vice President Harris's campaign and that
it was not her. There's a whole system around her,
because what I don't want is for people to get
comfortable with not propping up another black woman to potentially
be president. Right, it shouldn't be that far of a
gap between Shirlechism and Vice President hair I do believe

(53:01):
that a black woman can be president and will be president,
and you know what, this country will be better. And
so before we do all that again, have a little
bit of rest and joy. It's actually okay because we
know what to do and we will show up. But
like the rest and joy is important for us to
continue to do our political work.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Beautifully stated. So where can we stay connected with you
with Lindsia? Where can we find you online? Where can
we grab our copy of the book? Please share the details?

Speaker 3 (53:29):
Yes, yes, you can find me online at Elencia Johnson
on I believe all my platforms are that or not
at allanciaj but I'm mostly on Instagram, so at Alncia Johnson, I'm.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
There in threads.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
And then the book you can find at Flipthetables book
dot com. That's Tables with an S, so Flip Thetables
book dot com. And I asked that you just join
us on this journey of being disruptors.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Absolutely include that in the show notes. Thank you so
much for spending some time with me today. I really
appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
Thank you for having me, doctor Joy.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
I'm so glad Alyncia was able to join me for
this conversation. Her insight in times like these is so important.
To learn more about her, or to grab a copy
of Flip the Tables, go to Therapy for Blackgirls dot
com slash session four h two, and don't forget to
text this episode to two of your girls right now
and tell them to check it out. Did you know

(54:25):
You can leave us a voicemail with your questions for
the podcast. If you want to suggest movies or books
for us to review, or even give thoughts around topics
you'd like to hear discussed, drop us a message at
Memo dot fm. Slash Therapy for Black Girls and let
us know what's on your mind. We just might highlight
it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapists
in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for

(54:49):
Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And to round out today's episode,
I have some huge news for you. For the past
five years, the Sister Circle has been our space to connect,
grow and show up as our full sells. And now
we're expanding that space to bring you even more of
what you love. Drum roll please introducing the Therapy for

(55:15):
Black Girls community on Patreon, your space to be seen, heard,
and understood in an even more connected way. So what's new?
New content segments like so my Therapist Said, where we
break down viral therapy hot takes with real mental health professionals.
Add free podcast listening because uninterrupted conversations just hit different

(55:39):
TVG community chats where we unpack trending pop culture topics
that have us all in our feelings. Exclusive community events
and office hours with past podcast guests, Your chance to
ask the questions that matter most to you, and much more.
This space is your space where you can be in
community with other sisters. Our digital home is moving, but

(56:02):
our mission stays the same to create a space where
Black women are centered, valued and uplifted. Make sure you're
following us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls and
sign up now at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash
join Patreon to get exclusive updates and be the first
to know when we launch. We can't wait to see

(56:22):
you inside. This episode was produced by Alice Ellis, Indaychubu,
and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank
y'all so much for joining me again this week. I
look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
Take good care

Speaker 3 (56:43):
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Dr. Joy Harden Bradford

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