Session 405: Unpacking Intimacy with Dr. Tiff Henry

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy Hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

(00:57):
for joining me for session four or five of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation afterword from our sponsors. Have you heard the news
Therapy for Black Girls is launching our community on Patreon.
It's your space to be seen, heard, and understood in
an even more connected way. We're excited to bring you

(01:21):
new segments like so my Therapist Said, where we break
down viral therapy hot takes with real mental health professionals,
TBG community chats, where we unpack trending pop culture topics
that have us all in our feelings and opportunities to
connect with other sisters.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
All over the world.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Sign up now at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com, slash
join Patreon for all the details about what we're planning
and to be the first to know when the doors
are open. We can't wait to see you inside. In
the wake of the Me Too movement, it became clear
that film and television sets needed stronger regulation around intimate scenes.

(02:02):
Since then, intimacy coordinators have been on the rise, ensuring
that actors feel safe and respected while bringing vulnerable moments
to life on screen. Thanks to their work, we can
enjoy our favorite shows and movies without questioning whether boundaries
were crossed behind the scenes. Today, I'm thrilled to be
joined by doctor Tiff Henry, an expert in sex and

(02:23):
mental health and a leading intimacy coordinator with a master's
in psychology and a doctorate in Human sexuality. She brings
a deep understanding of human connection to her work. Since
earning her certification with the Intimacy Professionals Association, Doctor Chiff
has become a go to intimacy coordinator for TV and
film productions across Metro Atlanta. You may have seen her

(02:45):
expertise in action in productions like Tille and Tell Me
Lies are caught her insights on Good Morning America and Cinian.
Through her careful choreography of intimate scenes, Doctor Chiff creates
environments where both passion and safety can coexist beyond the screen.
She dives even deeper into conversations about self discovery, relationships,

(03:08):
and intimacy on her podcast Intimate Details with Doctor Tiff.
If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please
share with us on social media using the hashtag TBG
in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for
joining me today, doctor Tiff.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Thank you so much for having me. It is truly
an honor and a pleasure to be here, to be
in your presence, and just to be able to talk
about all of the things, just mental health in general
amongst our folk, and to be able to really sit
down with you is honestly a pleasure of blessing everything.

(03:49):
So I'm here for the duration. Whatever you need, whatever
I have, it is yours, it is your audiences. Just
thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
No, thank you for joining me. So I always loves
to hear like the backstory of like how you got here.
This is a huge question, right but specifically as it
relates to like psychology, like how did you find yourself
in psychology and also exploring your doctorate in human sexuality?

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Man, First of all, research you've done it. I spent
the morning writing okay today and I'm going to get
to the backstory. But I did spend the morning writing
something for my podcast about purpose and about how we
sometimes are waiting on purpose and trying to find purpose
and trying to figure it out. And a lot of
it has to do with us searching for what we

(04:36):
want as opposed to asking God about what he wants
for us. So that'll come later, but in that I
think I got started looking for what I wanted. So
when I went to college, I went to undergrad it
University of North Carolina and Charlotte, and I did not
know what I wanted to major in. I would totally

(04:58):
do it differently, just being honest, I would totally do
it differently if I had to do it all over again,
but did not know what I wanted to do. Talk
to my dad about it, and he was like, well,
you know, I think you should do psychology, Like you're
really good and listening to people and helping people figure
things out and blah blah blah. So I'm like, okay,
i'll do it. I'll try it. Got like a D
or an F in my first class, so I was like,

(05:20):
you know what I'm supposed to be doing. But turns
out I believe that like any general class, and anybody
that's gone into an undergraduate program kind of knows, those
general classes they throw everything at you, right, So you're
talking abnormal, you're talking general disorders, and you're thinking about

(05:42):
all of these broad concepts and all of the key
players in the history of that field. And it was
just very overwhelming for me. So he's like, take another class,
see you know in my stick. And then I started
getting a's and b's, a's and b's, a's and b's,
and so I was like, oh okay. Eventually, just so
that everybody knows, I did go back and take the

(06:03):
class again and got an A after the fact. But
that's how I got into psychology. This was also at
a time now I'm going to date myself. I graduated
from college in ninety eight. In ninety eight, so this
was the time of doctor Drew having love lines. This
was a time doctor Ruth was in her bag. Doctor

(06:25):
Sujo Hansen was on the old Oxygen Network and she
was doing her thing, and I'm like, Wow, this seems
like an area of expertise that I would really want
to do. I really want to do sex therapy. But
also at the time, sex therapy seemed a little bit kookie.
There was we weren't. I didn't know anyone that looked
like us that was doing it, and I didn't know

(06:48):
if it was gonna stick. I did know that no
matter what psychology was going to I was going to
have a job. Okay, my mom worked in community mental health,
Like I knew that above all, psychology would be there
for me. So I was like, I'll specialize in this,
but I'll always have psychology to fall back on, which
is a weird way of thinking about it. So I

(07:09):
minored in women's studies and then once I, you know,
did that, I really found that my niche was human
sexuality and women's sexuality. It was very easy for me
to talk about It was very easy for me to
understand and explain to people, to make people feel comfortable

(07:30):
talking to me about those things. So that was how
I got into it. I got the Masters in psychology
and then I went on for my doctorate in human
sexuality education from Widner University and that's how I got
to be a sex therapist.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
So I feel like we are kindred spirits in that,
like the Loveland I mean the love line Sujohansen Oxygen like,
I feel like that is where a lot of us
first saw therapists show up on TV and like in
pop culture. So doctor kil Wyatt on the Oprah Show
was the first time I had seen like a black
woman mental health professional show up. Who was that for you?

(08:08):
Was it doctor Wyatt or someone else?

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Oh? Who was it for me? You know what I think?
For me? It was It's it was different. It was
a therapist. Wow, it was a therapist that taught me.
She taught me abnormal psych Her name is doctor Joyce
Morley Ball. She's here in Atlanta, and she's a black,
ball headed woman who just owned whatever space she entered into.

(08:34):
I think doctor Ball does do some television, but I don't.
I that's not where I got her. She was when
I saw her and saw how she held the space
especially for black women. And I don't know that she
was intentional about that, but I gravitated towards her. It
was the hardest class in my master's program, probably the
only class that I got like a B in, But

(08:55):
I was thankful for that B because she worked me
over and I learned so much from her. She really
commanded that we understand the material, that we strive for excellence,
and that we really get down and dirty with our clients.
I think from her I learned a lot about, or
more about not being afraid to ask the tough questions

(09:15):
and to really look underneath things, to really be curious,
and that people are just layered. And one thing that
I did learn from her, I remember her saying very
vividly that like you were, not your diagnosis. And that
has always stuck with me because I remember, like I said,
my mom worked in she was an admin assistant in
community mental health when I was younger, and I remember

(09:40):
people calling people schizophrenic, like he's a schizophrenic, or she's bipolar,
she's whatever. And I remember doctor Ball one day said
this is a person with schizophrenia, this is a person
with bipolar disorder. And that was so important to me
and really profound, and I spread that message to people

(10:01):
that I talk to, people that I work with that
we are not our diagnosis. And it's so hard when
you assume that or if other people put that on you.
But no, you're a person who has symptoms that are
characteristic of a diagnosis. You are still a person. And
so my hope is that in all the work that
I do, that I am people first, that I let

(10:22):
people know that they are people first, and we can
deal with and work through the elements that come with
you as a person and whatever diagnosis you may have.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
So one of the many incredible things that you do
is working as an intimacy coordinator. So I wonder if
you can define what that is and like what your
work is there, and talk about the history of that
field and like how long intimacy coordinators have actually been
a part of productions.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
As an intimacy coordinator, when someone asked me what it
is that I do or what that means, I just
had to say this. In Costco the other day, someone
asks me what this was, what it was. The way
that I explain it is I help actors and productions
when they have scenes that have nudity or simulated sex.

(11:13):
I come in and I help make that set safe.
I make the actors feel safe and I assist the
production in making sure that we ensure that the set
is safe. And what that looks like is going through
all the scripting. I go through with a fine tooth
comb and weed out any scenes that I think will

(11:34):
have some sort of intimacy, some level of intimacy. Now,
sometimes it requires that I'm there for just a kiss,
most times not, but I'm looking for, okay, beyond just
a kiss, right body touches, any kind of sexual stimulation
or simulated sexual stimulation, and of course nudity, and so

(11:58):
I'm looking for those things. I meet with the director
to make sure I understand their vision. Then I meet
with the actors and I go over that vision, but
I also get their consents or their concerns and see
what they're comfortable with. Just because a director may have
a vision for what they want to see, it doesn't
necessarily mean that the actor themselves is comfortable with portraying

(12:20):
it in that way, and so it becomes not necessarily
a negotiation. But we figure out what the actor is
comfortable with. We put that in a legal form called
a writer, which is what is expected of them and
what they say that they will do on the day
that we film. But ultimately people have agency and autonomy,

(12:41):
which is what I like, and they are able to
change their minds. So if on the day, let's say
I met with an actor two weeks ago, and on
the day that we are filming, they are no longer
comfortable with being touched in a certain way or exposing
a certain body part, they can amend that writer or
change that writer. They can less than what's on the writer.

(13:02):
We have to get a new writer if they want
to do more. And then just making sure that the
set is safe, that no more people are on set
that day that need to be on the set, that
you just don't have curious people there just to look
and gok at someone when they're in their most vulnerable state,
and making sure that they just continue to feel safe
throughout that process. So that's what I do as an

(13:24):
intimacy coordinator. I started doing intimacy coordination right around COVID,
which was an awful time to start doing it, but
it was very necessary for me. A little bit of
backstory on just how I navigated this. I've been doing therapy.
I've been in private practice since I graduated from my

(13:46):
master's program in two thousand and so Right after that,
I'd been doing work in hospitals and things like that.
I officially started private practice in six I'm old. I
officially started private practice in six and also then started
doing television show. I would get invited to do reality shows.
I hosted a daytime talk show for ABC and done

(14:07):
a nighttimes talk show for TLC, and had done a
lot of stuff in front of the camera, which I
really love, but at the same time felt as though
I didn't have as much control over the work that
I was being asked to do. I was beholding to
someone calling me and saying, Hey, we have this article

(14:28):
that just came out, would you like to comment on it,
Or we have this celebrity that needs counseling on television,
so can you come in and do it. I'm waiting
on a call. And I really wanted to create some
of my own stuff, and so I had worked with
a major network. I've had a couple of development deals
with networks, but this one in particular, it tied me

(14:50):
up for about two and a half three years where
we were developing a talk show. We were developing and development,
we shot pilots, We had done all these things, and
then people would leave networks, and so then you have
to repitch your idea to the new people to come in,
and then money changes. It was big thing and so
but also during that time while you're on hold, if

(15:11):
you have a good agent, they will make sure that
you are fairly compensated for taking that time. Because I
couldn't work on any other projects while I was in
development with this particular network, So I took that money,
saved a lot of it, but I use that to
fund my certification to become an intimacy coordinator. So I

(15:34):
use the money that I was waiting on to do
this next thing because it was going to allow me
to be behind the camera and learn more about this
industry that I wanted to be in and also do
the thing that I'd been doing already. Intimacy coordination is
such a compilation, a good compilation of my work as
a therapist, my education in sexuality. It just made so

(15:59):
much since it checked off all the boxes. So that's
how I got in it. And then this field has
been around for a while. I think some of the
earlier shows to use intimacy coordinators would be like Euphoria
in Khana Hbo. Hbo was one of the first, I think,

(16:20):
to make it a thing that with all of our
productions that have intimacy, we're going to have an intimacy coordinator.
I think what made it stick though, was the me
too movement, as you remember, and this was all with
like the Harvey Weinstein stuff. There were several allegations of
people insisting that people do things that they hadn't agreed on,

(16:43):
in actors feeling as though if they didn't they would
lose their job or they would lose their their ability
to work. Like the casting couch didn't become just this
mythical thing that we had always heard about. It was real.
People were showing up day of and being like, yeah,
you know, I knew that you agreed to do this
with the bra on, but let's just see how it
is with your bra off. That cannot happen today. And

(17:07):
that's why intimacy coordinators are there. I think before people
would even do that in audition. So they would bring
them there for an audition and have them act out
an intimate scene with someone that they don't even know.
And that's just not the way that actors should be treated,
that we should be handling this type of work because
it is really challenging, and people need to have autonomy

(17:28):
and agency over the things that they agree to do
and know that when they walk on set that no
one's going to be asking them to do something that
they aren't prepared to do and aren't willing to do. So, yeah,
that's kind of how that all came about.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
So you mentioned certification, so you use some of your
money to get certified. So it talk to me about
the certification process to become an intimacy coordinator.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
So I did mine with IPA, which is Intimacy Professionals Association.
I have to think about the acronym and out there
IDC is another. There are several. Each program is very different.
There's a set curriculum of things that you really do
need to know in order to become an intimacy coordinator.

(18:13):
Is not a mandate that you need to be a
therapist or a sex therapist or anything like that. Many
intimacy coordinators maybe come from different fields. We have a
lot of intimacy coordinators that are also stump performers and
actors or have acted in the past and had a
great intimacy coordinator or a need for one and decided, hey,
I already know what one half of being on set is,

(18:34):
Like I'd love to learn this. We've had a lot
of people who are costumers or pas who become intimacy coordinators.
You have to have a love for love of detail,
for sure, but of really wanting to make people feel
comfortable and safe and to advocate for them. And I

(18:55):
think we as therapists, I feel like we're perfectly positioned
in that area and that we are used to do
and that we're used to talking to people about difficult things.
We're used to listening very well and parenting back what
they've said to you to make sure that we're clear.
We're good at communicating those things to other people, and
then just standing in the gap and making sure that
what they need we can advocate for them. The process

(19:18):
was for me the way that I did it because,
like I said, I did it right at the beginning
of COVID. I might have started right before COVID, but
I know I'm pretty sure that COVID was part of it.
So we did a lot of it virtual where we
talked about all levels of the film industry, like everywhere
that we could possibly work, whether that is on stage

(19:38):
for like plays, short films, television. All of that we
talked a lot about and did a lot of education
on boundaries. Consent was a big part of it, how
things are shot. I remember one of the most helpful
parts was just like and I'd been on sets before,
but like I said, I was doing a lot of
in front of the camera work. I wasn't doing a
lot of behind the scenes work. So learning about screen

(20:00):
terminology and the things that would be said, like what
it means, like how to read a call sheet, how
to like who to go to when you need certain
things done on set, who to email, how to email like,
how to build a resume specific for this type of work.
So we went through kind of everything, and then some
of it was very practical. How to stage things so

(20:23):
that it looks very real on camera even though those
things aren't really happening. When I say simulated sex, sometimes
when we look at intimate scenes on TV, they look
very real, and these are some really good actors doing
some really intimate things, but it is simulated unless you're

(20:45):
watching something like porn. I would say, more often than not,
these things are not happening in real life, but we
make it look that way. And so a lot of
the training is about how to get certain angles and
knowing if it's a wide shot what we can get
versus if it's close up or a cowboy, and like
how to block using maybe someone's arm. I had a

(21:07):
actor the other day She's okay with her breast being shown,
but not her nipple, And so how do you show
a breast without showing a nipple and without showing the
nipple cover that's going to be on it. And so
you have to know how to block that with different
areas of the body or with another person or with

(21:27):
a prop or something like that. How to make sex
look real when penetration is absolutely not happening, when barriers
are in place so that that isn't happening. And then
also we know, as human beings, our body responds in
ways that maybe we don't want it to at certain times.
So there definitely are times when there's a scene going

(21:49):
on and two actors are doing their best to be
as professional as possible, and that doesn't mean that someone's
penis might not do something that they don't want it
to do, might get hard in a way, and so
we have to pull back. I have to be able
to give that person time and give them space, make
sure barriers are in place. I use things like these

(22:11):
yoga balls that I don't fully inflate, but it'll give
like this much of a padding in between them so
they can be on top of each other. The ball
is squished, you'll never see it, but it allows them
to move in a way that makes it look as
though they're having sex, but also provides a lot more
padding there and they're never touching each other. So little

(22:33):
things like that that you don't necessarily know or think about.
Thus the type of training that you get and you
just have this. I have this massive bag over here
that is just like a toolkit for all of the
things that could possibly come up on said that we
just don't think.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
About more from our conversation after the break. So where
are you actually standing on set? Like are you like
to the side of the director, Like, where are you
so that you can see what's happening?

Speaker 2 (23:09):
It depends. Most often, I'm in at what we call
video village, and that is kind of a tent or
an area where there are screens that show me exactly
what the camera is filming. So I mentioned before that
there are writers that we have in place for each actor,
that really state like what they're agreeing to do or
what they're saying they will not do or don't want
to show. So I need to be in front of

(23:31):
a monitor because obviously the camera isn't getting the full
picture of what's going on in the room. They're getting
what they're zeroed in on, and so I need to
make sure that what they're filming is what we've indicated
that can film, so that we're not wasting footage on
something that we'll never be able to use because of
a writer. So I always like to be in front

(23:52):
of a camera monitor. Sometimes that monitor. Most often that
monitor is going to be outside of wherever it is
the set that they're filming on. Sometimes they will set
a monitor for me in the actual room where they're filming.
There have been times where I've been like, if we're
shooting in like a makeshift bedroom and there's like a

(24:12):
bathroom off to the side, a lot of times I'm
tucked in behind the door looking at a monitor where
you can't see me, but I can see everything that's
going on. I've even had instances where a couple they're
let's say they're supposed to be making love in bed
and all we have is like a sheet to kind
of shield areas that don't need to be seen. And

(24:34):
so a lot of times I'm just off to the
side so that I can tuck that sheet here, do this,
or pull this in this way so that those things
won't be seen. I'm very close by. I'm usually not
very far away, but sometimes I'm right in the room
and right next to them, and sometimes I'm outside of
the set but on at a monitor.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
So you already mentioned doctor Tiff that part of your
job is going through the script with a fine toothed comb, like, okay,
all of the things that look like they could be intimate,
see anything. And so I wonder what is your definition
of intimacy, because I would imagine that could sometimes be
different than maybe with the director or the writer. It's thinking,
so what definition are you using.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
My therapeutic definition of intimacy is emotional closeness and physical closeness.
I believe you need to have both of those things,
emotional closeness and physical closeness for true intimacy. So when
I work with people in private practice, that's what I'm
talking to them about. A lot of times they'll come
because of the physical stuff but we got to work
on the emotional stuff too. On set though, what they

(25:32):
are looking for help with and safety around is more
of the physical stuff. But my recommendation and coaching and
choreography usually tries to I usually try to add some
of those emotional elements because I know that's how we
tell the best story. I'll say. So I'll tell you

(25:55):
if I have someone that's let's say I have a
couple that we're trying to convey that the love making
that they're doing or the scene needs to be just
really passionate and it's a big reconciliation that they're really
hungry for each other. We'll choreograph that to be ferocious
or whatever. But I want to see intimacy in different ways.

(26:15):
Like I may want to see like a face caress,
So that's my note to like, let's put the hand
on the face, or let's get a shot of the
hand going down the small of her back, or when
you grab his arm instead of just moving it across,
let's make sure that we get a close up on
the hand and that they're grabbing. So there are other
things that we can do to show intimacy aside from

(26:38):
just the simulation of sex. There's touch, there is caressing,
there's kisses, gentle kisses, there's stroking in a different type
of way. There's ways that you may be out coach
to arch your back in a certain way so that
I know that a feeling is happening. I've had several
scenes where I'm going to think of the most appropriate

(27:00):
way to say this manual stimulation was happening for someone,
but it obviously wasn't really happening right. And my note was,
even though this isn't really happening right, you see the
person's hand go down out of frame, there has to
be a point where the person that is receiving the
manual stimulation, I need to know that happened. And so

(27:24):
it's working with the actor to make sure, Okay, at
this point, let's make sure your upper body shows me
that something is happening below the frame and that like
you're enjoying it and what that is, what's happening for you.
So just making sure that people are into not just
with the act, but you know what that act brings
about in their bodies totally, and then that they're conveying

(27:47):
the emotional intimacy along with it.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
So is there any conversation with the actors in a
scene kind of beforehand, like where you were almost like
doing maybe like a not a session, but like a okay,
let's get I know each other a little better, or like,
you know, how are you setting up? Are they just
going into this room cold with this stranger doing these
very intimate things.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Usually not for me. I will meet with them well
before the scene actually happens the first time. If it's
for a show. If you think about most shows having eight, ten,
twelve episodes, right, I'm meeting with them before the first episode. Hey,
it's me. I'm gonna be talking to you about all
of these things for introducing myself, getting into it with

(28:31):
with what the director wants for those first batch of episodes,
and then really getting to know them as a person,
what they like, what they don't. In one of my
more recent shows, I had an actress who is just like,
I don't care what's coming down. I'm never gonna want
to do tongue. That's just not gonna happen for me.
I know there are a lot of kissing scenes. I
on mind kissing, but I think we can do it

(28:51):
without tongue. I'm not trying to catch it, and I said, Okay,
that's fine. Doesn't stop me from asking her every time
because I have to, But I do know, like from
the jump, because we know each other, we have this understanding. Okay,
this is non negotiable for her. She's not gonna want
to do that. So I can talk to then my
director about like, look, based on our previous work, I

(29:12):
know that this actor will want to do this, won't
want to do that. We'll still have the conversation. But
I think it does take I think an episode or
two or a conversation or two to get to that
level of comfort, to where you just know your actors.
I say all that to say again, it doesn't mean
that you don't continue to ask the same question that

(29:37):
you've always asked. I will repeatedly ask about any kind
of touch boundaries or kiss boundaries that because as you
know as a therapist, people hold things in their bodies,
they hold trauma in many areas, and they hold just
memories of things that have happened to them, good and bad.

(29:58):
And we want to make sure that in each and
every scene and with each and every scene partner, things
can change over time. And just because I felt comfortable
kissing this person and the last scene doesn't mean I'm
going to be comfortable kissing them in the next scene.
Just because I allowed this actor to touch me in
this way doesn't mean I want that actor to touch
me in this way. And so we have to as

(30:20):
intimacy coordinators, get to a point where we can just
ask those questions and make sure that our actors understand.
I know, I just ask you this, but I got
to ask you again because we're talking about a whole
different scene and a whole different scenario. Is this still okay?
And I think that helps, Like that helps with everything.
I feel like our actors feel like, okay. Yes, it's

(30:41):
in saying that you're asking me the same question again,
but I'm glad because you're not just taking into account
or assuming that I'm okay with it every time, because
I'm on the off chance that I'm not. I want
to be able to say that right right, So.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Dutch Tiff, what does aftercare look like? Especially in scenes
where there may have in like them, sexual violence, aftercare
is going to be different.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Unfortunately, I will say this, after care is very different
based on in my perspective, based on the set and
the production there are some productions they are more open
to it than others. I've been very lucky to have
been on a few sets where it was prioritized and
thought about prior to filming. A lot of times, after

(31:26):
care is one of those things that is thought about
after the fact. There is one set that I worked
on and I was actually not hired as the intimacy coordinator.
I was hired as what they called a sensitivity coordinator
because they knew going into production that the material would
be highly sensitive, not just for cast but for crew

(31:49):
as well, and so they brought me in just to
work on just making sure everybody felt okay when we
were doing some really tough, mentally challenge and draining scenes,
and I thought it was a brilliant move on that production.
I've also worked on other productions where I've suggested the

(32:09):
need for that and it was just like, we don't
have it. It's not in the budget. We don't think
it should be fine. If they have a problem, they
can talk to their supervisor. It's best if it's proactive.
And I don't necessarily know that every show needs it.
I do know that we need to have access to
address whatever issues may come up for us, because we're

(32:30):
all carrying around or going through something and who knows
what might trigger any kind of emotion or feeling or anything.
Aftercare is not a standard, and intimacy coordination is still
relatively new. I wish and I hope and I pray
that the future of our sets and the safety on
sets includes more mental health access and availability, because I

(32:53):
think as we start doing all of the things and
telling the stories, it becomes very heavy, and it becomes
I think for so many and again not just our cast,
but crew two are exposed to so much and you
don't know what is traumatizing for folks. You don't know
what they're what everybody's lived experience is. And not only that,

(33:16):
we're talking about individuals that are working twelve hour days
or more, that aren't getting to see their families as
much as they should, that probably aren't exercising like they should,
aren't eating as they should, that just need the support
and so to have that would be a humongous blessing
and an absolute game changer in this industry.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
So you mentioned there are actors and actresses that you've
worked with, like maybe in different projects. How do you
actually end up a part of a project like would
it be that an actor would say, hey, I'm not
doing anything if Doctor Tippet's not here like she yes
the year if I'm doing any of this, is it
typically from the production company that they will say, okay,
we need to have a coordinator here.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
How do you get involved. I've had very positive relationships
with many of my actors, but I usually get hired
a couple of ways. One, I have an agent, so
some stuff comes through my agent, some stuff comes through
my previous work. So a lot of times a production
coordinator or production supervisor. The film community is a very

(34:19):
is big, but it's small, and the upms or line producers,
they'll do this show and then they have their next
show lined up, and their next show lined up, and
their next show lined up, and so what tends to
happen is if you do a good job, a lot
of times they want to bring the same crew to
the next production. And so that a lot of times

(34:40):
is what happens for me is out you know, was
on one show and the first ad from that show
went to this show and they needed an intimacy coordinator.
And it's always well, who did you work with last time?
Or have you worked with anybody that you're really like, Oh, yeah,
I work with doctor Tiff. Let's see if she's available,
and then I get the call and then that's it.
Sometimes I've been reached out to specifically because I'm black,

(35:06):
Like the production might be a all black cast and
they're seeking out a black intimacy coordinator and I check
that box and so I get the call for that.
But I would say ninety percent of my referrals are
like word of mouth. Probably ten percent is from my agent.
I think with any profession that you're in, I don't

(35:28):
rely on social media at all for those jobs really
because I'm lazy and I have an Instagram account for
my icy work, but I don't update it. I don't
have time. So yeah, that's pretty much how it all happens.
Got it, Okay?

Speaker 1 (35:47):
I mean it sounds like you're booked and busy without it,
so you don't really mean enough.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
I'm booked enough. I'm booked enough. Right now. I'm managing
three shows and it's more than enough. One is ending
in a couple of weeks, which will be right, and
then I'm going to do the two throughout the summer.
Someone will have to be really phenomenal for me to
take on another project, but I also liked to vacation.
I like the beach, so this is getting into my
beach time and this is not that fancy.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Protect I am like, how did I.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
End up working throughout this? I'm rethinking it, But it'll
be nice to have some beach money though.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah, exactly, you need that.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
You need that.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
So you mentioned that you know some of the times
you get cast it because people are looking specifically for
a black intimacy coordinator. And I really feel like, you know,
even in the beginning, when you start talking about like
having your experiences in grad school and seeing Sujo Hansen
and thinking like, oh, this is something that I want
to do, I feel like you were really on the
cutting edge right Like now it feels like we see
a lot of mental health professionals talking about sexuality and

(36:47):
like that is more of a conversation, but I feel
like you were one of the people doing it before
like social media started really popping in, like we saw
people talking about it.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
How do you feel like like.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
That impacts the work that you do, and like, how
how are you bringing your black woman this onto the
set to help you approach the work? You do as
an intimacy coordinator.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Man, I can't leave her behind. I show up and
I am black, Lackay Black. I have to come in
as unapologetically who I am because that's who's going to
show up regardless. I could try, but I just have
to be me. And I find that the more me
that I am, the more people appreciate the me that

(37:27):
I am, and they appreciate me showing up and just
being who I am. I will say for and I'm looking.
I'm just trying to think right before we went on, like,
how many shows have I been on where it has
been like a predominantly black cast, And it hasn't been
very many. And the referrals that I've gotten, like from
those line producers or supervising producers or production coordinators, they

(37:49):
haven't been black production coordinators or supervisors or line producers.
But they recognize my talent, they recognize my ability, they
recognize the way that I communicate with not just my actors,
but with production as well. What that says to me
is show up as authentically as you can be exactly
who you are, because that's the thing that it's gonna

(38:12):
eventually come out and you don't want to have to
worry about keeping that part up. Understand that you're coming
in to do a job, do it the best that
you possibly can, and the right situations will find you.
You won't have to do much to continue on that trajectory.
I can't imagine not leading with it. I can't imagine

(38:34):
not leading with it. And I know it's hard, you know.
I know it's hard for us, especially in these spaces
where we don't see ourselves. But I think it's super
important that we understand that we wouldn't be in those
spaces if we weren't meant to be in those spaces.
So even if you don't see yourself, perhaps you're the
first one that other people need to see in order
to recognize that they can do it. When I started

(38:56):
doing sex therapy, I didn't see like someone of color
like me, And what I ended up realizing was that
I became the first black certified sex therapist in the
state of Georgia. That wasn't a goal that I set out,
but it wasn't until after that happened that I realized,
oh shit, right, look at your girl. And then I

(39:19):
had mentees and people, you know. When I taught Master students,
master's clinicians that were looking to get into this field.
They did that because of me, because of the example
that I did. I say all that to say, like,
even if you don't see the person of color, if
you see a person, know that if they did it,

(39:39):
it doesn't matter that you don't look like them, or
don't have the same aesthetics as them, or don't have
the same background as them. If it's been done, you
can do it and be the first. Don't be afraid
of being the first. Just do it. Do it, step out,
step out and own it. If God put the dream
in your heart, it is yours to have and to hold.

(40:02):
He will make a way for you to claim it.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
More from our conversation after the break. Have you heard
the news? Therapy for Black Girls is launching our community
on Patreon. It's your space to be seen, heard, and
understood in an even more connected way. We're excited to
bring you new segments like so my therapist said, where

(40:27):
we break down viral therapy hot takes with real mental
health professionals. TBG community chats, where we unpack trending pop
culture topics that have us all in our feelings and
opportunities to connect with other sisters.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
All over the world.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Sign up now at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com, slash
join Patreon for all the details about what we're planning
and to be the first to know when the doors
are open. We can't wait to see you inside. So
thinking more about like all black cas So, did you
watch Insecure?

Speaker 2 (41:02):
I did?

Speaker 1 (41:03):
So you probably remember a condom gait right when there
were lots of conversations about like, oh, we see a
lot of sex on Insecure, but we never see like
condom rappers. So ask somebody who might have been like
on the set or like helping, you know, to kind
of think through some of those things. What were your
thoughts or when things like that happen in pop culture?
How do you look at that as an intimacy equal?

Speaker 2 (41:21):
You know, I don't even know if I remember that
much conversation about it. I do know that just from
my perspective and having worked on shows where you know,
young people are having sex or we want to show
these things, but these people maybe they're not married, or
maybe they're having sex with multiple partners or whatever. That's

(41:42):
always a conversation that I like to initiate. It it's
a couple of them. Are we saying as a production
or as like that these people like they're in college,
they're having lots of sex with lots of partners. Are
we saying that they're not using condoms? Are we ever
gonna show that condoms are a thing, Because like you
have to think about the implications just beyond like these
particular characters, Like what is the production saying, what is

(42:02):
the network saying? Like if this is on free form,
for example, is the message that we're not using condoms
what we want to say versus like HBO or you know,
you kind of have to think about that. That is
something that I think about as an ICEE. I also
think about this is a good one, and I think
it's annoying to me more than anything when people are

(42:23):
having simulated sex. I think it is important. I think
it's critical if it's a male identified and female identified partner,
that we see somebody's hand go down to make sure
the penis makes its way into the vagina. I don't
think penises magically find their way into vaginas, but when
we see sex scenes, a lot of times they just

(42:45):
start making love, and I think we know that somebody
got to put something somewhere in order for it to
go where it's supposed to go. It doesn't magically find
its way into all And so little details like that,
I think we have to make sure happen because it's
there's an adjustment period, there's a movement, there's we gotta

(43:07):
find a way. So little things like that are like
I don't know, like pet pains for me, I want
to see it. I want to make sure that happens.
And when we do like things like condom use, I'm
a stickler for like please don't tear that wrapper, Please
don't do that, Please don't do that. It's just it's
a sex education thing. Like there are so many different
things that just should happen, and they don't always. But

(43:29):
if I'm on set, I'm gonna at least say something
about it. And if they choose not to go in
that direction, that's fine.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
So you mentioned that you've been on other sets as
like sensitivity coordinators, and to me, it feels like that's
an extension of like intimacy coordinators, right, Like especially I've
seen articles and things written about stories that especially like
if slavery is portrayed, or there's a lot of like
heavy racial trauma. They want somebody like a sensitivity coordinator

(43:55):
on set. What are your thoughts about, like how the
field of intimacy coordinator and sensitivity coordinators will expand maybe
in the next couple of years.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
I definitely think intimacy coordinator like they're going to be there.
We're in the process of becoming in full partnership with
SAG after I've been a member of SAG since about
twenty eleven, but in the field of broadcasting, so I've
backdoored my way in. But now it is being recognized
and that will become evident in like all of our

(44:27):
contracts and making sure that we're paid a certain base
rate and all of those things. So I feel really
confident about where intimacy coordination is going, especially as we
join the union as intimacy coordinators in sensitivity and mental health.
They tend to be brought in as consultants, and I
think intimacy coordinators were initially as well. Because television and

(44:51):
film is so different, there's not always a need, you
know what, check me in a couple of years because
I may think through this and think about it very different.
I don't know that there's always a need for a
mental health professional to be on set. I do think
there needs to be availability of mental health professionals all
the time in every line of work. I do think

(45:13):
that we're going to start to see more of it though.
The first place that I saw actually I worked on Till,
the movie Till, and they brought me in for a
scene where there were some body touches. But I was
brought in because I was referred by the mental health
person on set. They had a mental health person on
set there who's a dear friend of mine, and she

(45:33):
brought me in to do that work. And then after that,
I worked with Natgo on Genius season four, which was MLKX,
and they brought me in specifically to do the sensitivity stuff.
And then I ended up signing a separate contract to
do some intimacy work because they had some scenes that
they needed somebody for but they weren't sure that they
were going to and it was like, yeah, you do,

(45:55):
so I was able to do that. Right now, I'm
working on a project I can't talk about the name,
but I can tell you that was one of the
things that I recommended when I came in just to interview.
Is that just based on what I'm seeing. I think
that we have a real need and a real opportunity
for a mental health component and someone to be here

(46:16):
dedicated for this show. And thankfully they took that and
ran and we have somebody on set. We also have
a team where our cast and crew can meet with
them whenever they need to. So I think that we're
going in that direction. I don't know if it will
happen with every set in every production, but I think
we're going there. There's certainly some overlap, there are certainly

(46:38):
things that I could handle. I'm a licensed clinician, right,
I could handle it because as a black women, we
can do a lot of different things. And just because
I can do it doesn't mean that I need to
do it, or should do it, or should have to
do it. And so I'm very proud of myself for
recognizing that and bringing that up in my interview and
really pushing back and saying it can't be meet and

(47:00):
not be me because I've read every script and I
know what's coming down the pipe, and I have an
idea that if I were to take that on, what
do they say, get blood out of a turn on? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (47:13):
Right? Because they would be compensated, right, Like they would
compensate you for the one role, but then have you
doing all these different things?

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Yes? Absolutely, But also I think they would have paid
me to do both. They would have had to pay
me to both. I wasn't gonna do both and then
not pay me. But I don't want to. I don't
want to be work like that. I would be there
every day. I wouldn't be able to get none done
for myself. I'm trying to get some beach time. I'm
trying to see my husband. I'd like intimate time with

(47:39):
my husband, okay, or to go see my daughter play,
to swim, or to do whatever.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Like.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
I have to understand, and I think that's the growth
of being someone in a helping profession. I have to
understand what my needs are to aavigate for those and
see where I'm starting to get sucked in in places
where you know what, that ain't none of my business.
I could do it, but you know what, right now,
I'm choosing not to. I'm choosing to do what I

(48:07):
can do. I don't have the capacity for it, yeah,
to do all of that, And so even though I can,
and I'm very much trained to do it, don't want to.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
So I would imagine there's it probably some people enjoying
our conversation, particularly therapists who are thinking.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Like, oh, this would be so cool to get into.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
What would you suggest for people in terms of like
maybe doing more research or how would somebody get started
in becoming an intimacy coordinator?

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Well, I would say, because not every therapist wants to
talk about sex and intimacy. That's not their niche. So
make sure if this is the road that you feel
most comfortable with and you can make other people feel
comfortable with. And so once you know that, I would say,
just put in a search for training or certification to

(48:54):
be an intimacy coordinator. There are different programs that come up.
IPA is one of them, I DC and others. I'm
not going to try and remember them all, but there
are others, and then just do that research, figure out
like Okay, this one sounds a little bit more like
something that I want to do, or this one is
in my area, or this one has more like online components.

(49:15):
Because I don't have time to be traveling, You'll figure
that part out, and then I would just have some conversations,
meet up with and talk to reach out to people
that are already doing the work. What is sad? And
this was sad for me and it still is sad.
Now we weren't really able to do a lot of
shadowing because of COVID like when I started. Before then,

(49:35):
I think that ICs had a lot more access to
being able to go on set, but after COVID not
so much, or during COVID and not so much. Like
they really did limit the number of people that could
be on set to the people that absolutely needed to
be there, and they were doing so much testing that
you just really couldn't have anybody that wasn't in a queue.

(49:57):
I think they're starting to allow people to have assistance
or to bring in somebody if you can find that
that would be great. But I would say do as
much research as you can. Make phone calls, ask people
offer to take an Icyl to coffee, prompt she'll go,
and you can pick their brain or just ask them
questions about their work how they got in. Because my

(50:19):
story is unique to me, there are other people that
have gotten in a different way. Like I said, I
have a couple of friends who are stunt performers, and
because they're stunt performing and icy work is very similar,
and that they were coordinating these physical activities between people,
and so it was an easier way in for them

(50:40):
because they were already doing some of that work. And
so if you're interested in one area and don't be
afraid to just get on set. I think one of
the benefits that I had is I had been on
sets before, so a lot of things I knew about
set culture. But there is a great benefit to knowing
what it is like to be on set in any capacity.

(51:02):
So if you have the availability to be a PA,
I'm not saying you have to start as a PA,
but if you want to just get acclimated to being
on set, a PA is a great way to go.
Or if you want to use your talent gift but
maybe in a different area. Let's say you're a great
Maybe you work as a graphic designer, and this is
the area that you feel like you want, like figure
out a way to get yourself in the industry as

(51:24):
a designer of some swort, maybe in the art department
or whatever, and then figure out I think the more
that you're on set, you'll start to see like so
many windows of opportunity and things that you didn't even
know existed that you are interested in. So it may
be intimacy, coordination, and maybe something else, but just don't
be afraid to look outside of the box for sure.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Thank you so much for that, Doctor Tiffin, for all
of the things you shared today. I feel like I've
learned so much and really appreciate you sharing.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
All that with us.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Where can people stay connected with you? So you said
you're on social but not really.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
No, I just don't post.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Oh you just don't put.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Intimacy stuff on the page that I'm supposed to because
I can't manage another page, Doctor j It's too much,
too much. So I would say, here's how you get
in touch with me if you will follow me at
doctor Tiffany TV on Instagram, d R T I F
F A and I E TV on Instagram. I think

(52:21):
that's a great place to start because I post there
the most. I also have a podcast, Intimate Details with
Doctor tiff and we're getting ready to go into a
new season. We just finished up kind of season three.
We're getting ready to go into season four, and that
season I'm ninety nine percent sure it's going to be

(52:43):
all about purpose, and so it's a great place to start,
especially if you're a woman, if you're a black woman,
if you're somebody who's just like trying to figure it
out as we all are in twenty twenty five, that's
a really good place to start. And so some things
of that nature are coming up probably within the coming weeks.
If you go to my Instagram, you'll be able to
sign up and subscribe to my newsletter. I am coming

(53:05):
out with a program for women. My primary work is
in helping women learn how to effortlessly attract the love
that they want to call in, primarily by focusing on
their own growth and transformation. And I'm so excited about
the programs that we have coming up for that. I'm
doing a year long program I believe. I thought it

(53:28):
was going to be twelve weeks, but it's going to
be a year. So that's something that's coming up as well.
But you'll find out all of that on Instagram because
that's usually where I, I mean, I have the capacity
for that. There's also a YouTube channel, Doctor Tiffany TV,
like put it in my name, you'll find me fine
and I'm there, so all right, beautiful.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
We should include all of that in the show notes
so that the people can follow you because I have
a feeling that they're going to be very interested in
the work, and especially in this class. It sounds like
very interesting.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
It's going to be amazing. It'd be amazing.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
I'm super excited, very excited to hear thank you so
much for joining me today, doctor Tiffany.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
I appreciate it, Thank you, thank you for having me anytime.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
I'm so glad doctor tiff was able to join me
for today's episode. To learn more about her and the
work she's doing. Be sure to visit the show notes
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash session four five,
and don't forget to text this episode to two of
your girls right now and tell them to.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Check it out. Did you know?

Speaker 1 (54:28):
You can leave us a voicemail with your questions for
the podcast. If you want to suggest a movie or
a book for us to review, or share thoughts about
other topics we should discuss on the podcast, drop us
a message at Memo dot fm slash Therapy for Black
Girls and let us know what's on your mind. We
just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking
for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory

(54:51):
at Therapy for blackgirls dot Com slash directory. This episode
was produced by Elise Ellis, Indy Chubu, and Tyree Rush.
Editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank y'all so
much for joining me again this week. I look forward
to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Take good care.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Host

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Session 405: Unpacking Intimacy with Dr. Tiff Henry