May 7, 2025 • 50 mins
If you’re on #BookTok or any book-obsessed corner of the internet, especially amongst Black women, you know that there’s always a Kennedy Ryan book at the center of the conversation. Kennedy is no stranger to crafting characters that feel real and fully formed and her stories linger with you long after you’ve turned the last page. Her newest book, ‘Can't Get Enough,’ is no exception. The third and final book in her Skyland series explores shifts in family dynamics, deep love, and the kind of healing that feels both tender and powerful. Today Kennedy joins us on the podcast to dive further into her writing process and talk about how she brings these stories to life.
About the Podcast
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
Resources & Announcements
After years of growing, connecting, and healing together, the Therapy for Black Girls Community is now officially live on Patreon—and let’s just say, it’s giving everything it needs to give! From exclusive content and weekly chats to live events and deeper convos with sisters who just get it, this is your space to show up fully and be poured into. Learn more and join us here.
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Grab your copy of Sisterhood Heals.
Where to Find Our Guest
Instagram - @kennedyryan1
Grab your copy of Can't Get Enough.
Catch Kennedy on her book tour.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:58):
for joining me for session four ten of the Therapy
for Black Girls podcasts. We'll get right into our conversation
after a word from our sponsors. If you're on BookTalk
or any book obsessed corner of the internet, especially amongst
(01:20):
black women, you know that there's always a Kennedy Ryan
book at the center of the conversation. Kennedy is no
stranger to crafting characters that feel real and fully formed,
and her stories linger with you long after you've turned
the last page. Her newest book, Can't Get Enough Is
No Exception, the third and final book in her Skyland
(01:40):
series explores shifts and family dynamics, deep love, and the
kind of healing that feels both tender and powerful. I'm
excited to be joined by best selling author Kennedy Ryan
to dive further into her writing process and talk more
about how she brings these stories to life. If something
resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with
(02:01):
us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session,
or join us over in our patreon to talk more
about the episode. You can join us at Therapy for
Blackgirls dot com, slash Patreon. Here's our conversation. Thank you
so much for joining us today, Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Thank you for having me. I love what you guys do.
I love your platform, So I'm really excited to talk.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, thank you, thank you for joining us. So you
mentioned as we were chatting beforehand that you're on deadline
for the next book. So tell us a little bit
about your writing process and how this book came to be.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Oh gosh, you know, my writing process. Generally I talk
about people will say what inspired you, and I will
often say I'm not so much inspired as incited. You know,
a lot of my books come from a place of
not to scare anyone, but female rage indignation. You know.
(03:00):
I see things happen in the world. Some of them
disturb me, or I feel like need more discourse or
whatever it is. But if I feel like my storytelling
could add to that discourse, could shine light on it,
then I gravitate towards, you know, working inside of it
and writing about it. And I write romance, you know,
and sometimes people are dismissive and don't think that you
(03:23):
can groat some of those heavier topics in romance. But
I feel like romance is the perfect genre to have
difficult conversations, to have conversations people are avoiding because it's
such a digestible, palatable genre. You know, it goes down easy,
and also there's a guaranteed heavily ever after. So a
(03:43):
lot of my inspiration comes from things that are happening
in the world discourse that I want to have. My
background is journalism, and so a lot of my creative
process is really fueled by lived experience. Before I start
writing a book, I'm always reading something. For example, we
talked about the book that I'm writing now. This particular
heroin has a lived experience that with certain mental health,
(04:07):
mental illness, it's not my lived experience. So I've read
like five memoirs. I usually do a lot of interview,
usually ten to fifteen subjects for each book, somewhere around
there a lot of them. If it's a medical condition,
I'm talking to doctors who treat that, I'm talking to
people who live with it, I'm talking to psychiatrists, I'm
talking to people who actually know about those experiences. And
(04:30):
then after I've done all of that kind of research
and it's really the cornerstone, then I start to build
out this fictional story that grows out of real lived experience.
And so that's really what my creative process always looks like.
And the variables will be what is this condition or
what is this what is this vocation? This whole series,
(04:51):
the Skylind series, And you know, we're talking about book
three of the Skylind series, which is called Can't Good Enough.
It's the last book of this series, which I'm kind
of like bittersweet about. But the whole series, honestly, I've
written with a lot of intention, and a lot of
that intention was around mental health. Each book is looking
(05:11):
at different mental health conditions, it's looking at different lived experiences.
For example, the first one, the heroine is recovering from
a pregnancy loss, and she is in a deep depression
and at the same time, they just lost a loved one,
she and her husband, and he has not ever dealt
with his grief, and so he's been very resistant to
therapy and they end up divorcing. And really that whole
(05:34):
book is exploring the role of therapy in depression, finding
the right medication, and then with him realizing that therapy
is a pathway to healing, and for this particular story,
that he's not going to get his wife back untherapized,
you know. And so one of the mental health conditions
we're looking at in the second book is autism, which
(05:55):
I have so much personal experience with. I'm an autism
mom and have been for twenty years. Autism Advocate led
a foundation for families to have children with autism. So
it was really special for me to write about autistic
twins and what that parenting journey looks like and what
the community looks like when it comes around and integrates
and includes those with autism. And then in this third book,
(06:17):
we are looking at Alzheimer's. This is a heroine who
is a caregiver for an aging parent. It was really
personal for me because my grandmother was living with dementia
at the time. She passed away literally the week after
I turned in the edits for this book, so it
kind of felt like, wow, you know, timing. But I
interviewed my mom, you know, as one of her primary caregivers,
(06:39):
along with a lot of other people. But this whole
series has really been looking at how we as women,
and even more specifically as black women, how we take
care of our mental health, how we address issues of
mental health, protecting our peace. And then I think another
thread is how we are there for each other, because
the sisterhood and the friendship is really rich in this
(07:00):
and how we support each other through everything.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Beautiful Sonopsis, thank you so much for that. So I'm
curious to hear how you kind of protect yourself and
like take care of yourself, especially when you're writing about
things that do include some of your own personal story. Right,
So you talked about being an autism mom and having
a family history of Alzheimer's and dementia, So how are
you taking care of yourself and kind of managing the
boundaries when your stuff kind of ends up in the
(07:24):
stories right.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
You know, at first, I didn't do a very good
job of it. And even when I'm not writing about
something that is my lived experience, when I'm writing difficult subjects,
I didn't realize how much it affected me. I have
a book it's called Long Shot, and it's a survivor's
journey and it is a romance. You know, she ultimately
finds love and all of that, but it is walking
(07:46):
through what that can look like, you know, intimate partner
violence and all of that. And this is years ago.
I was just like, Okay, this is what I'm writing,
you know. And I was interviewing people who had lived that.
I was interviewing people who worked at shelters. I was
interviewing all the pieces of that puzzle, and I ended
up with a bald spot and I was like, how
did this happen? You know, I didn't understand so much
(08:07):
of that stress I was actually experiencing and holding on
too for myself. And that book was a real learning
experience for me because I understood if I am going
to be writing deeply into these subjects, some of them
that have those stressors and those strains and those triggers,
I have to take better care of myself, and I'm
not always very good about it. But one thing that
I myself when I was writing before I Let Go,
(08:29):
which is the first book of this series, of course,
that's a heroine who is dealing with depression. I was
myself diagnosed with depression. I don't advise writing a book
about depression when you are dealing with it yourself. But
I learned to take care of myself during that process. Obviously,
well not obviously for some people, I guess, but I
(08:51):
ended up getting on antidepressants and other things that really
helped me with my depression was physical activity, getting outside
and now I'm walking every day. You know, first of all,
there's just so much good stuff that happens in your
body when you walk, the way your brain responds to it,
the hormones that are released, and then it clears my mind.
(09:12):
It gives me a space that's just my own. I
am a special needs mom, I am a full time writer,
and I have other roles and sometimes it feels like
there's no time for me. And that time when I'm walking.
I walk for about an hour every morning. It's like
so mind clearing. It centers me. And in addition, to
all the benefits, you know, physically, and then I pray.
(09:35):
I grew up as a person of faith and it's
still a big part of my life. My faith and
what that looks like for me is very centering, meditating.
Just making sure that I feel connected to something that's powerful,
even beyond myself is a big help too. And my husband.
The thing is, I am not very good sometimes about
(09:55):
taking care of myself. He is much better sometimes it
taking care of me than I am. I'm about to
go on a tour and it's like ten cities in
fourteen days, and it's very intense, and the last time
we were on one. He always travels with me, and
he is the one who's like, Nope, she's not doing
anything else. We're done for the day. She's going home.
Where's your water? And he just kind of helps me.
(10:17):
So I think having people in your life who also
look out for you because I'm a little bit of
workaholic by nature, and he knows that about me. So
having people who know those things about you and help
take care of you is very important, at least it
is for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah, was there any concern for you, Kennedy about starting
an anti depressident. And I know a lot of creatives
sometimes worry about starting medication because they're worried about, you know,
will this impact my creative process? Was there any concern
for you there?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
You know? I think the thing that I had to
get past was and I didn't realize that I had this,
but growing up, I mentioned I grew up as a
person of faith, and in church, you're like, oh, girl,
you don't need a peel. Just pray about it. You know,
God got it, you know that kind of thing. I
didn't have any like expressed biases about medication, but then
when it was time for me to take it, I
(11:06):
was like, oh, you're prescribing something for me. What is
this going to do my brain? What is this going
to do to my But honestly, I was at such
a low place in my own life. I was having
panic attacks. I was barely able to get out of bed,
you know. And my husband was the first one to
notice it. It was during the pandemic, so I assumed
it was just it's the pandemic. Everybody's living like this,
(11:29):
and my husband's like, no, I think it's something else.
I was supposed to be writing before I let go
and I had not been able to. I thought it
was writer's block. I was talking to a writing coach
and she was like, I think this is more than
writer's block. I think you should talk to someone. And
I went through three therapists before I found the right one,
(11:50):
which is also what the heroin experience is in the
first book, because I wanted people to know sometimes the
first one doesn't take you, know, and you got to
keep looking until you find the right one. And when
you're at such a low place in your life, it
takes a lot just to take that first step, and
it can be so discouraging when you take that first
step and then it's not the right one. You're like,
you're telling me I have to take another step with
(12:12):
another person. And when I found the right one, she
was pretty quick to say, I think that we're dealing
with depression, and I think you should talk with a psychiatrists.
I think we should get you on medication. And I
remember one of my family members saying, you know exactly
what I thought, you bir just pray about it. You
don't need to take no pills. But I did. I
started taking an antidepressant and I felt so much better,
(12:33):
like pretty fast So for me, the improvement in my
mood and in my state of mind was worth dealing
with those questions, dealing with those issues. And I had
been so blocked creatively by depression that for me, I
had no thought that this could make it any worse.
My book was six months late at that point, and
(12:56):
when I had my first session with my therapist, I said,
I have a book to I just need you to
I just need I need to get this book done,
you know, I just need you to fix this so
I can get my book done. And she said, I
really don't care about your book, and I'm like, I
need you to care about my book at six months late,
you know, And she goes, I care about you, and
I think that if you really put in the time,
(13:16):
this could be the best book you've ever written. And
that book was before I let go, and it changed
my life, changed my career.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Thank you so much for sharing that, you know, I
appreciate you sharing that, but also appreciate you including that
in the story because I think it does help to
destigmatize mental health. Right, like the idea that sometimes you
meet with a therapist and they are not like the
best fit, and you keep trying so I'd love to
hear what let you know that this therapist was going
to be a better fit for you.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
You know, the first couple of therapists we just didn't jive.
And the first one was like, you need a manicure,
you need a massage, and I'm like, I know those
things like first like self care, but I recognize that
there was so much deeper, so many deeper things that
were going on with me, and we just didn't jibe.
(14:02):
And when I well, first of all, when she told
me she didn't care about my book, you know, she
was very frank, she pulled no punches, but she was
also very compassionate. She asked the right questions. She started
asking me questions about my sleep. She started asking questions
about hygiene. You know, some days I was like, I
don't even want to goe out of a bed, take a shower.
(14:24):
You know. She asked questions about what my eating was like,
what my libido was like, which was nonexistent. She started
asking the right questions and it didn't take her long
asking the right questions to identify what was really going on.
And I will say this, I know that it doesn't
have to be but she was also a black therapist,
and that made a difference personally for me. I felt
(14:44):
seen and understood. I felt like there were subtleties of
my experience, especially as a black woman in publishing, navigating
a very white dominated space. There are certain systemic barriers
I'm up against all the time. Having a therapist who
understands those subtleties, the subtleties of what that feels like
(15:05):
and what that looks like, and doesn't think I'm imagining
it or take it for granted, but considers it in
in our conversations makes a really really big difference for me.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So in Can't Get Enough, we see an expansion really
of Hendrix's story. He's really kind of stepping out into
the light on her own. So what was it like
to kind of expand her story and kind of have
her be the main character here?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
It was a delight, you know, in the sense that
this series, it's these three women, and you know, each
of them kind of gets their turn in the spotlight.
But I'm dropping like little hints about Hendrix throughout the
first two books, Like even in the first book we
mentioned her mom has some form of dementia, you know,
So that wasn't a surprise for anyone who had been
reading the series. The first book is heavy, very heavy,
(15:52):
you know, in a lot of ways, because we're dealing
with depression and then the grief. We're dealing with all
these things. It's a late term pregnancy, Like there is
all of this heavy material that's in the first book
that I tried to be very thoughtful about and wrote
in concert with therapist and people who live those experiences.
And Hendrix kind of comes in a lot of times
(16:13):
as comic relief. It's like, this is heavy. This is heavy.
This is heavy. And then Hendrix pops in with something
and you're like, Okay, I can breathe, Okay, I can laugh.
This is heavy. This is heavy. This is heavy. And
then Hendrix again is like, hey, you know, we're still
having fun. We're still here for whatever. And she also
in those other two books was incredibly supportive to her
friends and she showed up for them, and it was
(16:35):
apparent to the reader that this is somebody who's like
write or die, Like, this is somebody you want in
a pinch if you're having a hard time, this is
who you want. And it was really her time to
look to her friends to be that for her and
so building her out as not just comic relief, not
just the good time girl, but as a fully dimensional
woman who has joy, has all this joy, and is
(16:59):
so such a good friend to everybody else. You know,
she has the rich auntie vibes. She is childless by choice.
You know, she doesn't want to have kids ever and
doesn't feel like she should have to provide an excuse,
a reason, a trauma. You know, She's like, I just
don't want kids and that's okay. But she loves everybody
else's kids. So this is a very warm woman who
(17:21):
is there for everyone else. This is a story where
she has to learn to lean on her friends and
to lean on her family because her aunt comes in
and helps her with her mother's care. It's too much
for her on her own. And I really enjoy building
this aspect out. We knew that she was a businesswoman.
We knew that she was running her own business. She
manages celebrities, especially like reality TV star celebrities like think
(17:45):
you know, housewives kind of thing. We knew that about her.
But what we didn't know is her role in venture
capital and that she and a group of her so
wars had started a venture capital fund that was focused
on black women founders. You know, we didn't know that
about her. We didn't stand how committed to her community
she was that way, and that was a lot of
fun for me to build out. I didn't know a
(18:06):
lot about venture capital, and so the research for that
was fun. And I started writing this right around the
same time that everything was happening with the Fearless Fund,
So that was very interesting, and I really dug into
some of those themes of affirmative action DEI things that
are very prescient for where we are now, and at
the time I didn't realize how prescient it would be.
(18:28):
I wish it wasn't as prescient as it is. So
a lot of those aspects went into building her character out,
and then we see her as someone who for me,
she's a plus size brown woman, and I wanted her
to be the main character. I wanted her to be
someone's obsession, you know, in a healthy way. I call
(18:48):
it a chasing romance. Sometimes those are not the women
we are seeing at the center. Sometimes those are the
women who are the sidekicks, so that you know, the
funny best friend. I didn't want to treat her reductively.
I didn't want to do that. I wanted to build
her out in all of her dimensions, and then I
wanted to celebrate her at the center of the story
as the love interest and have this man who's incredibly
(19:09):
eligible and who could have anybody want her. That was
really important to me for women who are plus sized
like me, you know, women who are black like me,
to see ourselves at the center and to see ourselves
pursued and loved outrageously and called worthy. That was really
important for Hendrix as a character for what it represented,
(19:31):
and then for this story specifically.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Mm hmm. So you're talking about this love interest who
is Maverick in the story, right, so we see him
introduce there. When you think about, like who the love
interests for Hendrix would be, what really inspired the Maverick
care is there?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah? I always talk about usually I'm building out like
if it's a guy and a girl, you know, if
it's not sapphic or whatever, but if it's a guy
and a girl, I always build a woman first, and
then I build a man who is worthy of her.
That's how I think about my process as far as
character development is I build an incredible woman and then
(20:07):
I build a man who's worthy of her. And so
Hendrix is such a dynamic character, and she is very independent,
and she's like, I'm good all by myself. And her
big thing is I will never settle, you know. I'd
rather not have a husband. I'd rather not have a
romantic partner than have someone who doesn't deserve me. And
so that has been her perspective. And so I knew
(20:29):
that Maverick is going to have to be very special.
I knew that he was going to have to bring
it because Hendrix is not easily impressed. She doesn't need
anything from anyone else materially, but what she needed was
someone who could be a soft place for her to land.
And the thing I loved about Maverick is a lot
of times when I'm writing romance, there are certain tropes,
(20:50):
you know, that romance readers enjoy, and I like to
introduce those tropes but then kind of subvert them, like
kind of twist them around a little bit, like the
billionaire romance so big right now, and I'm like, yes, okay,
let's do this. But what if he's a billionaire who
gives outrageously to historically black colleges and universities? What if
he's a billionaire who sees how marijuana, you know, has
(21:13):
been criminalized in the past and specifically weaponized against black men,
and decides, once it's legal, I'm going to create a fund,
you know, and we're going to create generational wealth with
this now that it's legal. Like, what if we had
someone who is a man of means but also a
man of mission, a man of purpose, who supports his community.
(21:35):
What if that is what the billionaire trope looked like.
And so that's what Maverick is. And I'm a basketball girl,
you know, So Maverick is also you know, he's someone
who wants to be an owner, you know, of a
professional basketball team, which is not something we have enough
of where we see black men who are ownership in sports.
So that aspect is there in the story too. So
(21:56):
I love writing aspirational characters, not perfect, flawed, but also ambitious, yes,
but vulnerable, you know. And Hendrix is that, you know,
she has these vulnerabilities. And when you are a dynamic, powerful,
ambitious woman like Hendrix, you want to be vulnerable with
someone who is going to appreciate that about you and
(22:17):
who is going to be that soft place to land
and so I think that's that's how I formed Maverick,
thinking about what she would need and who is someone
who she would feel like she wasn't settling for, because
that's her big thing is if I'm doing okay all
by myself, why do I need you? You know? And
he showed her all of the soft things, the love,
the protection, the respect, and she wanted someone who would
(22:39):
respect her dreams and her ambitions equally, which a lot
of times for powerful women that can be hard for
men who don't check their own egos or who want
to feel like women need to be dependent on them.
So he needed to be someone who's very secure, you know,
in his own manhood and in his place in Hendrix's life.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
More from our conversation after the break. So you mentioned
this a little earlier, but there is a beautiful parallel
I think between like the romantic love interests we see
in the Sisterhood love language that we see kind of
(23:19):
among the three characters. Can you talk a little bit
about that and like why it felt important to include
that across this trilogy.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yes, absolutely. I think one of my favorite quotes from
the whole trilogy is there aren't enough sonnets for friendship,
and I think that embodies exactly what you're talking about,
which is that culturally, we often put so much emphasis
on romantic love and don't really recognize and acknowledge how
important other types of love are. And one of the
(23:45):
ones I really wanted to lean into with this one
is friendship and sister love. These three women think of
themselves as platonic soulmates, you know, they think, these are
my people. We're in it for life. Anything they need,
That's what I'm gonna do. I grew up seeing that,
and I didn't realize it, I don't think until I
got deeper into the series and I realized those are
(24:06):
the kinds of friendships that my mom has and that
she surrounded herself with and seeing the importance of community
and sisterhood, and I wanted this story to reflect that.
And I think that we're in a time where community
is more important than it's ever been. You know, when
you can't depend on some of the systems that are
supposed to be there for you, or the government or
(24:26):
whatever it is, having an inner circle, having a community,
having friends is tatamount. And I think that's what this
big part of this series is about. And I also
talk in this series about loving yourself, especially in the
second book, about how loving yourself is the foundation for
all those other loves you know, and really leaning into
(24:47):
all about love by Belle Hooks, really leaning into that
as a text that's a foundation for the series, but
building on that familial love, sister love, and friendship, and
then of course romantic love. So that's kind of how
I approached it. But it's it's esteemed, you know, in
a way that sometimes sometimes people don't see as much
(25:07):
in romance because of course the emphasis is so much
on romantic love. But I also think that there's so
much we learn about people when we know who their
friends are and when we know who their family is.
Like there's to me that is a part of building character,
is who are your friends? Because that also tells me
a lot about what you value. It tells me about
what you enjoy, what makes you laugh, who you are
(25:29):
when the cameras are off, or when you are not
at work or you're not you know, you can do
the code switch and you can completely relax, like who
are you then? And I think one of the best
contexts for that is true friendship. And so there's a
lot about character that we learn when we have that,
and so that was really important to me.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So there's this beautiful layer I think also where we
see like this balance between resistance and softness for Hendrix
that I feel like is really a big deal for
black women, right like when we're often for to choose
one or the other. Can you talk about like the
tension that exists there and why it felt important to
include that.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yes, I think I already knew you know, that has
been a tension for us forever. You know, that balance
of when do I get to be soft and when
do I have to work? You know in culture, when
you're hearing all the time you got to be three times,
four times, five times is good. You know, all of
those things inform the way we work and informs the
(26:27):
way we dream. You know, it affects all of that.
And Hendrix is kind of that, like black Girl, Magic Girl,
And there's this one passage where she talks about black
Girl magic and she talks about how it's not a
wand it's work and that so many times we're magical
out of necessity because we have to be to survive,
(26:48):
and that it's resilience. So in thinking about that, It's
so funny because we are in a place where, especially
Black women in America, the overwhelming majority of us had
a vision for this country that didn't come to pass,
and that was very disillusioning and very painful. I think
(27:11):
so many of us grieved it and are still grieving it.
And it's interesting to see as the protests break out
that we are not showing up the way that we
have before physically, like in the streets. It was so
funny because someone posted it was in Atlanta, which I've
spent twenty years in Atlanta, so Atlanta feels most like
home to me, but it was in Atlanta, and it
showed this protest out in the street and these three
(27:34):
or four black women like having mimosas or something like
looking out the window like Okay, I see you go off.
You know, Like we are in this space where and
I am constantly finding that balance because at the same
time that I want to protect myself and I'm also
(27:54):
a little indignant that certain things have happened when we
tried to warn people, and we have always been the
engine for resistance in this country. It is interesting to
be at a place where we're like, oh, we're going
to be soft for a while. You know, we're going
to get our fans out. We're gonna, you know, learn
a new dance, and we're gonna do all these things.
But at the same time, I am also a mom
(28:17):
of a special needs son, and so I'm concerned about medicaid.
I'm concerned about medicare for my parents. I'm concerned about
the world for my queer friends. So it's like balancing
how do I express resistance in a way that is
safe for me right now? And I am finding that.
I think a lot of black women are finding that,
(28:37):
and every it looks different for everybody, and we all
have to figure it out for ourselves. But it's so
funny because I had written the first version, a couple
of versions of this book, and we were in the
final edits and the election happened, and I changed the
dedication the day after the election, and I changed the
(28:57):
dedication to this for the ones who have used your
magic to lift, protect, and illuminate everybody else. Rest is
your new resistance. Rest and shine My loves Rest and shine.
And I think that's kind of where we are. You know,
there's this balance of resting, resisting, but also shining polishing
(29:18):
ourselves up, taking care of ourselves in the ways that
feel right for us as individuals, creating community, making sure
that we are supporting each other. Those bonds in our side,
our community are, like I said before, more important than ever,
with so many systems that are supposed to create any
kind of equity, are supposed to create support being stripped.
For me, I can't check out completely because it's not
(29:41):
just like this country's going to you know, pot or whatever.
It is specific lives of people I love that are
attached to those things. So I think it's figuring out
how you want to resist and what feels right for you,
but then also protecting your peace. And I think that
Hendrix's story kind of embodies that. We see them that
the and we see her courtside with like multi thousand
(30:03):
dollars tickets, and we see her on a yacht, you know,
and we see her on a private plane, like we
see her balling and iceed out. We see all of
those things and like that life. But then we also
see her when it is the right time and when
it is her choice, on the front lines of resistance,
specifically around black women in venture capital and fighting for
(30:26):
more for her community and for women black founders, black
women founders. So I think her story is that balance.
We see all of that soft life stuff, but at
the same time we also see her when she's ready
and on her term, standing up, resisting fighting.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
More from our conversation after the break. So I don't
want to spoil it because I know the reader is
wing too experience it for themselves. But there is a
part that I think will stick with a lot of
people and maybe take them to their journals to think
(31:03):
about this question for themselves. So there's a moment that
causes Hendrick to ask herself, was Maverick asking me to
give up on my dreams or asking to run with
me while I chase them?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
So?
Speaker 1 (31:13):
What made you include this moment and what do you
think this will maybe open up or allow other people
to think about in their own lives.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, I think it is I mentioned earlier, a partner
who respects your dreams, you know, the same way they
respect their own. It's sometimes it can be hard to
find a partner, especially with kind of traditional male you know,
man woman dynamics. It can be hard to find a
(31:41):
partner who doesn't expect you to sideline your dreams. To
subjugate your ambitions to his. And I think that that
was an important question for Hendrix because she's like, I'm
not stopping. I'm not stopping, I'm not slowing down. I'm
not compromising. I'm not stopping what I'm doing. So we
can do you know, whatever you do, I might not
(32:01):
be following you like she needed a partner who understood that.
And I think it is more common than not that
a lot of women we have big dreams, big ambitions,
and when we get married, when we have children, it
changes the dynamics for us in a way that it
doesn't traditionally change them for men. We are the ones
(32:22):
who potentially end up with pregnancy leaves that maybe slow
us down in our career tracks. We tend to be
the ones who bear the burden of taking care of
the home, of taking care of the kids. Now that
you can have a partner who helps with that, like absolutely,
but conventionally, historically women have borne the brunt of that,
and it can slow down our ambitions. It can for
(32:43):
some of us, sideline our dreams. And I think it's
really important for you to ask questions about your own
dreams and your own ambitions and the thing I love
about Hendrix too, and all the women in this book
is that they're older, older than most romance novels. Like
most romance novels, a lot of romance novels, you know,
there are people in there twenties and maybe early thirties.
These women are forty years old. They've lived a little,
(33:03):
they got some good miles on them. But that also
means Hendrix knows exactly who she is, and she knows
exactly what she wants from life. And sometimes when we
come together with a partner and we haven't taken the
time to really know ourselves, we haven't taken the time
to really explore our own ambitions. We haven't taken the
time to really figure out what are our dreams and
(33:25):
how are we going to accomplish those things. Sometimes, when
we haven't spent time with ourselves to understand who we
are and what we want, when we get with a partner,
some of that can be absorbed by their dreams, by
their ambitions, or by the shape they want to see
us in. Hendrix is like, I got a shape. You know,
this is who I am. I'm not going to try
(33:47):
to change you. Don't you try to change me? If
we can exist together if we can love each other
as we are. That doesn't mean that you don't ever compromise,
but there's a respect for how a person is made.
There's a respect for what a person ambitions and dreams are.
And I think that's what we see with Hendrix, a
very strong sense of self that and she talks about it.
She's like, you know, in my thirties, I was in
(34:08):
the streets looking for what, But now I'm settled. I
know who I am, I know what I want, and
I'm not going to change that to be with someone.
I want to be with someone who wants me as
I am. And I think that's something that we as
women have to ask ourselves. What are we willing to compromise?
What aren't we willing to compromise? What aren't we willing
(34:29):
to settle for? How do we protect our dreams and
our ambitions and at the same time align ourselves with
a partner who loves and respects us. Those are some
of the questions that kind of rise to the surface
in this story. And when we talk about children, it's
kind of self eliminating a little bit, because there are
men who are like I want a family, you don't
want kids, You're not for me. And Hindus is like, well,
(34:50):
I don't want kids, so you're not for me. I'm
not for you. Deuces cool, have a great life. And
it's so interesting because when I was talking with some
friends when I was first writing the story, and I
was telling them that she was childless by choice. And
this was before, like Hendricks has been childlessed by choice
since the first story, which was in twenty twenty two,
and so we didn't have all of the cultural conversation
(35:12):
that we've had around child's by choice over the last
year or so. In the same way, that's just who
she was. But I remember some of my friends going, oh,
are you concerned that people will think she's cold? And
I was like, why why would people think she's cold
because she doesn't want to have kids. And I'm like, oh, wow,
you think that you think that a woman is cold
(35:32):
if she doesn't want to have children. And they're great people,
you know, but it's so baked into us that as
a woman, that is an expression of our womanhood. And
I've been telling people we are not our wombs, you know,
Like this country is so fixated on defining women by
our wombs, our reproductive rights and whether or not we
(35:54):
have kids and all of the things, and I'm like,
hands off, we are bigger than our reproductive organs, Like
why are you defining if I'm cold or if I'm warm,
or if I'm generous or if I'm kind by if
I have children. And there's this part of the book
where Hendrix talks about, you know, I may not have kids.
There are women like me. We may never have children,
but we are godmothers, we are aunts. We are pushing
(36:17):
our love out into the world on our terms. Let
us love people the way that feels right for us.
And so I think that's something that all of those
questions I think rise to the surface when you're reading
this book, or at least I hope they do. I
wanted them to.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, So when I think about book talk and Booksagram,
it feels synonymous with Kennedy Ryan for me in another ways, Yeah,
Like I feel like your books was some of the
first that I saw, like, oh, people are like really
going to their for you pages and telling other people
to like read about them.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
And I think that that.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Presents probably an interesting kind of conundrum when you're thinking about,
like how do you write your next books because you
know the fans are so involved, they will have responses,
They have lots of opinions, they have ideas about where
they think the story should go. So how do you
balance that right, like kind of you know, giving the
people what they want, so to speak with your own process.
Really as a creative.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
It's interesting because I actually have kind of a calculus
for how I write stories. It's like kind of a
three legged stool, you know, Like there are three things
that drive me in storytelling. One is creative conviction, like
what do I believe what is important to me and
what do I believe needs to be at the center
of this story. The other is intellectual curiosity. What am
(37:31):
I curious about? What do I want to learn? And
I hope that if it's something that's going to be
compelling enough for me and exciting for me to learn,
it would be exciting for our readis to learn. And
then artistic urgency, which is there's something happening right now
in the world that I feel like needs more discourse,
more shine. Is there an intersection between my work, my storytelling,
(37:51):
and this thing that's happening right now in the world
that will illuminate and amplify that discourse, and if so,
I'll write it. So those are kind of those these
three element that are present when I'm deciding what I'm
going to write, and that is a me process, that
is a process that insulates from anyone else's voice. We
talk about writing to market. I don't write to market,
(38:12):
which is when you look at trends and you're like, oh,
I'm gonna write this, I'm gonna write this. My career
is dumbfounding, do you know what I mean? Like, because
I don't write to the things that are popular, and
sometimes I write things or people are like, is that
even romance? You know, it feels like I'm often writing
against the grain. I don't you know sometimes understand how
(38:35):
my books have become even a little popular, except that
there are people who are drawn to the things that
I'm drawn to, which is I like things that feel
like real life but also with joy. And I hear
people's opinions all the time. You know, when you talk
about BookTalk, you talk about TikTok. I love TikTok, like
I'm on TikTok all the time, but I don't want
(38:56):
to see myself on TikTok. You know. I don't want
to see people talking about me TikTok, but it's inevitable,
do you know what I mean? Like, every time I
go on TikTok, the algorithm knows, oh, you're Kennedy Ryan.
We're going to show you stuff about Kennedy Ryan, And
I'm like, no, I don't want to see any of it.
I don't want to know, you know. And it's so
funny because there is this I have intentions I always
(39:18):
talk about. I say this a lot. I say that
I don't just release a book. I send a book
on a mission, and I think about storytelling from a
missional perspective. There's something that I want that story to accomplish.
It is written from various specific belief systems, and it
has intentions. And when you're writing like that, when you
are crafting a story from there out, other people's opinions
(39:41):
don't necessarily come into it, as it's intrinsically insulated from that.
And then when it's out there and I've kind of
formed it, I'm like, well, what what kind of bone
could I throw? You know? A reader like, oh, he
could be a millionaire. But the story, the core of
the story does not grow from that, oh, like in
a storyline before I let go. One of the things
(40:02):
I was really concerned with, which is the first book
in the series, was destigmatizing mental health, specifically for the
black community and then most specifically for black men. And
so we see a man who is resistant to therapy
and then over the course of that story understands, oh,
I need this, like I won't survive without this. How
(40:23):
have I made it this long without this? And he
has this journey from being completely resistant to it till
by the end like knock emergency, I need to talk
to my therapists, right. And there are readers who are like,
oh my gosh, why couldn't Josiah just have from the
beginning been like all in on therapy and he's not
my book boyfriend. And I'm like, well, I wasn't. Really,
I don't care about that, you know, I don't care
(40:45):
about book boyfriends. I care about that journey. My intention
was that journey. And the reason I did that is
because I know there are women whose partners are resistant
to therapy, women who would read that book and be
like this, this is what I'm talking about, baby, And
when I tell you, so many women message me. I
(41:05):
just gave it to him. I just gave it to
him and said, read it. And now we're in therapy.
He's in therapy. I call my insurance company, see if
they'll cover therapy. That is what I wanted. If he
is your book boyfriend, that is a side effect, that's
a byproduct to me. I don't write to those things.
I'm not thinking about those things. But at the same time,
in that book, where I was dealing with all of
(41:26):
those really heavier themes, and I had all these intentions,
and I sent the book on a mission. You know,
there is this point when they go to this hotel
and it's the only one bed trope. You know. It's
like they go to this hotel and they're supposed to
have two rooms. This is a classic romance trope, and
it's like, oh, there's only one room. There's only one bed.
And as soon as a romance reader sees it, they're go, oh,
(41:48):
it's the only one bed trope, you know what I mean.
So it's like, oh, gosh, this book, this was only
one bedo, you know. So it's like I can thread
those things in. But a reader readers desires are never
dictating what I write. So that's kind of the balance is, Oh,
but look, I can give you only one bed. Oh
(42:08):
but look, I can give you this really cool meet cute.
Oh look, but I'm going to write what I'm going
to write and it's not going to be affected by
what people want.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
So so what would you say? Kennedy Ryan's story always
promises readers.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
I think that a Kennedy Ryan's story promises a woman
who is powerful, and that doesn't always mean what people assume.
I think that there's the strong that myth of the
strong black woman. I think I have characters who are
Some of them are like Hendrick's, you know, really really
powerful and right, you know, up front about ambitions. But
(42:46):
then we have some who they're not the one who
as soon as you walk into the room they're the
center of everything, who are quieter but strong in their
own way. So I think there's a strength, but I
also think there's a vulnerability in all of these characters.
And part of that is to say we don't have
to be strong all the time. We should be able
to be flawed, we should be able to have weaknesses,
(43:06):
we should be able to have pain that's acknowledged equally
and at the same time, you're going to see a
partner because it's a romance. You're going to see a
partner who loves that woman outrageously, who respects her as
an equal, and who makes her feel esteemed and celebrated.
I tend to write from the margins to the center.
(43:29):
And what I mean by that is one of the
hallmarks of my books is what I call sceneiness, meaning
I like to write about women who are not used
to seeing themselves at the center of narrative and culture.
So I like to write about black women, brown women,
disabled women, chronically ill women, fat women, you know, like
(43:49):
neuro divergence, like those are not always the center of
the narrative. So I like to write from the margins
to the center. So you see that a lot in
my work. You're like, oh, okay, I see you. You know,
you right in the meadle. Are the main character. You're
not the sidekick, you're not the funny best friend. It's you.
So you often see that kind of like someone who
you're not used to seeing at the center of narrative
(44:10):
and culture, pulled from the edges to the center. You're
going to see a woman who doesn't settle, and even
if she settles at one point. Part of her journey
is figuring out that she doesn't have to. When you
see a character like Sulidad in the second book, The
Pink One, this could be us. This is a woman
who's married to you know, I'm not going to cuss
(44:31):
on your show, a pos, all right, married to a
pos trash garbage, and when he shows his true colors,
you know his true nature, this deep betrayal. She has
to start all over, and she has to start all over.
She has three kids, and she's now going from being
a stay at home mom to being a provider for
(44:52):
her home, maintaining this house, building a career, all of this,
but a career that's grounded in what she's gifted in.
And she's like, I have given him so much of
my power. So that whole journey is taking that power
back piece by piece and rebuilding herself into someone that
she and her daughters can be proud of. So every
journey looks different, but it is that how am I
(45:15):
taking my power, claiming my power, keeping my power, sharing
my power where it's necessary. And I think the other
thing that you'll see a lot in a Kennedy Ryan novel,
is I really see my work as this intersection of
swoon and social commentary. You will see that in most
of my books, you know, whether it's destigmatizing therapy, or
(45:37):
discussion of all the things that happen in book two
with her and rebuilding her career, or it's you know
what we see in book three, which is obviously what
does it look like now for us as a generation
caring for aging parents, but also the social commentary of
what does equity look like? Why is equity worth fighting for?
Why is it still a valid conversation for marginalized people
(46:03):
to still be demanding more than what we have been
given and what we've had opportunity for. Why is that
still a valid conversation? And all of those things are
going to happen in the context of a romance novel.
You know, I've had commentary on land grab. I've written
books that are commentary on climate change and the voter suppression,
missing and murdered indigenous women, intimate partner violence, like my
(46:26):
catalog is all of those things. So I really see
a lot of my work as this intersection of swoon
and social commentary. How do those things go together? And it's,
like I said, for me, romance is the most digestible genre,
so it goes down smooth all of a sudden. I'm
here for the kisses and the swoons and the spice,
and I'm like, oh wait, I'm asking myself real questions.
(46:48):
I'm in my journal right now, like what happened? You know?
And so that is a hallmark of my work.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Yeah, I love that swoon in social commentary, we love it.
So where can we stay connected with you? Kennedy? Where
can we can't get enough? Where can we find you online?
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Can't get enough? Comes out May thirteenth. I'm so excited
about it. It'll be out an ebook, print, audio, anywhere
you buy books, Amazon, indie stores. One thing that I'm
really proud of, and anyone who's listening can find me
on Instagram. You know, I'm on Instagram. I'm on barely
on x but still there. I'm on TikTok. But I
(47:27):
have a bio and if you go to the link
in that bio, it will take you wherever you want
to go. One of the things I'm most proud of
about this particular campaign is that we my publisher and
I are partnering with black owned bookstores and we have
a pre order campaign that is specifically for black owned bookstores,
and when you buy, can't get enough through a black
(47:48):
owned bookstore. It's linked to my bio. You click there,
it'll show you all the black owned bookstores that are participating.
There are certain things that you can only get from
the Black owned bookstore pre order campaign. It's like full
color art, it's you know, sign book plates, it is
a bookmark, it's all you know, it's all very specific,
and you can't get it anywhere other than our Black
(48:09):
owned bookstore campaign. So that's one of my favorite ways
for people to buy these books. And I did that
for my last release, which was real, and we're doing
it again for this one because a lot of times
we are begging black authors, are begging retailers, we are
begging the big stores. We are begging people please carry
our books, Please give us visibility, please make space for us,
(48:30):
please get us on your shelves. And black owned bookstores
twenty four to seven, three sixty five amplifying our stories,
supporting us as creatives. And so this is kind of
my way of saying, you amplify us, I amplify you.
I want to prioritize black owned bookstores and I want
to incentivize readers to support and buy from black owned bookstores.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Beautiful. Be sure to include all of that information in
our show notes. Thank you so much for spending some
time with me to day, Kennedy. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
For having me really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Thank you. I'm so glad Kennedy was able to join
us today. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn
more about her or it's a pre order your copy
of Can't Get Enough, be sure to visit the show
notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session four ten,
and don't forget to text this episode to two of
(49:21):
your girls right now and tell them to check it out.
Did you know that you can leave us a voicemail
with your questions and suggestions for the podcast. If you
have movies you'd like to suggest, or books you'd like
us to review, or even topics that you want to
hear us discuss, drop us a message at Memo dot
fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and let us know
what's on your mind. We just might feature it on
(49:42):
the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,
visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com
slash directory. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Indechubu
and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank
y'all so much for joining me again this week. I
look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
(50:04):
Take good care, what
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:58):
for joining me for session four ten of the Therapy
for Black Girls podcasts. We'll get right into our conversation
after a word from our sponsors. If you're on BookTalk
or any book obsessed corner of the internet, especially amongst
(01:20):
black women, you know that there's always a Kennedy Ryan
book at the center of the conversation. Kennedy is no
stranger to crafting characters that feel real and fully formed,
and her stories linger with you long after you've turned
the last page. Her newest book, Can't Get Enough Is
No Exception, the third and final book in her Skyland
(01:40):
series explores shifts and family dynamics, deep love, and the
kind of healing that feels both tender and powerful. I'm
excited to be joined by best selling author Kennedy Ryan
to dive further into her writing process and talk more
about how she brings these stories to life. If something
resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with
(02:01):
us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session,
or join us over in our patreon to talk more
about the episode. You can join us at Therapy for
Blackgirls dot com, slash Patreon. Here's our conversation. Thank you
so much for joining us today, Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Thank you for having me. I love what you guys do.
I love your platform, So I'm really excited to talk.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, thank you, thank you for joining us. So you
mentioned as we were chatting beforehand that you're on deadline
for the next book. So tell us a little bit
about your writing process and how this book came to be.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Oh gosh, you know, my writing process. Generally I talk
about people will say what inspired you, and I will
often say I'm not so much inspired as incited. You know,
a lot of my books come from a place of
not to scare anyone, but female rage indignation. You know.
(03:00):
I see things happen in the world. Some of them
disturb me, or I feel like need more discourse or
whatever it is. But if I feel like my storytelling
could add to that discourse, could shine light on it,
then I gravitate towards, you know, working inside of it
and writing about it. And I write romance, you know,
and sometimes people are dismissive and don't think that you
(03:23):
can groat some of those heavier topics in romance. But
I feel like romance is the perfect genre to have
difficult conversations, to have conversations people are avoiding because it's
such a digestible, palatable genre. You know, it goes down easy,
and also there's a guaranteed heavily ever after. So a
(03:43):
lot of my inspiration comes from things that are happening
in the world discourse that I want to have. My
background is journalism, and so a lot of my creative
process is really fueled by lived experience. Before I start
writing a book, I'm always reading something. For example, we
talked about the book that I'm writing now. This particular
heroin has a lived experience that with certain mental health,
(04:07):
mental illness, it's not my lived experience. So I've read
like five memoirs. I usually do a lot of interview,
usually ten to fifteen subjects for each book, somewhere around
there a lot of them. If it's a medical condition,
I'm talking to doctors who treat that, I'm talking to
people who live with it, I'm talking to psychiatrists, I'm
talking to people who actually know about those experiences. And
(04:30):
then after I've done all of that kind of research
and it's really the cornerstone, then I start to build
out this fictional story that grows out of real lived experience.
And so that's really what my creative process always looks like.
And the variables will be what is this condition or
what is this what is this vocation? This whole series,
(04:51):
the Skylind series, And you know, we're talking about book
three of the Skylind series, which is called Can't Good Enough.
It's the last book of this series, which I'm kind
of like bittersweet about. But the whole series, honestly, I've
written with a lot of intention, and a lot of
that intention was around mental health. Each book is looking
(05:11):
at different mental health conditions, it's looking at different lived experiences.
For example, the first one, the heroine is recovering from
a pregnancy loss, and she is in a deep depression
and at the same time, they just lost a loved one,
she and her husband, and he has not ever dealt
with his grief, and so he's been very resistant to
therapy and they end up divorcing. And really that whole
(05:34):
book is exploring the role of therapy in depression, finding
the right medication, and then with him realizing that therapy
is a pathway to healing, and for this particular story,
that he's not going to get his wife back untherapized,
you know. And so one of the mental health conditions
we're looking at in the second book is autism, which
(05:55):
I have so much personal experience with. I'm an autism
mom and have been for twenty years. Autism Advocate led
a foundation for families to have children with autism. So
it was really special for me to write about autistic
twins and what that parenting journey looks like and what
the community looks like when it comes around and integrates
and includes those with autism. And then in this third book,
(06:17):
we are looking at Alzheimer's. This is a heroine who
is a caregiver for an aging parent. It was really
personal for me because my grandmother was living with dementia
at the time. She passed away literally the week after
I turned in the edits for this book, so it
kind of felt like, wow, you know, timing. But I
interviewed my mom, you know, as one of her primary caregivers,
(06:39):
along with a lot of other people. But this whole
series has really been looking at how we as women,
and even more specifically as black women, how we take
care of our mental health, how we address issues of
mental health, protecting our peace. And then I think another
thread is how we are there for each other, because
the sisterhood and the friendship is really rich in this
(07:00):
and how we support each other through everything.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Beautiful Sonopsis, thank you so much for that. So I'm
curious to hear how you kind of protect yourself and
like take care of yourself, especially when you're writing about
things that do include some of your own personal story. Right,
So you talked about being an autism mom and having
a family history of Alzheimer's and dementia, So how are
you taking care of yourself and kind of managing the
boundaries when your stuff kind of ends up in the
(07:24):
stories right.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
You know, at first, I didn't do a very good
job of it. And even when I'm not writing about
something that is my lived experience, when I'm writing difficult subjects,
I didn't realize how much it affected me. I have
a book it's called Long Shot, and it's a survivor's
journey and it is a romance. You know, she ultimately
finds love and all of that, but it is walking
(07:46):
through what that can look like, you know, intimate partner
violence and all of that. And this is years ago.
I was just like, Okay, this is what I'm writing,
you know. And I was interviewing people who had lived that.
I was interviewing people who worked at shelters. I was
interviewing all the pieces of that puzzle, and I ended
up with a bald spot and I was like, how
did this happen? You know, I didn't understand so much
(08:07):
of that stress I was actually experiencing and holding on
too for myself. And that book was a real learning
experience for me because I understood if I am going
to be writing deeply into these subjects, some of them
that have those stressors and those strains and those triggers,
I have to take better care of myself, and I'm
not always very good about it. But one thing that
I myself when I was writing before I Let Go,
(08:29):
which is the first book of this series, of course,
that's a heroine who is dealing with depression. I was
myself diagnosed with depression. I don't advise writing a book
about depression when you are dealing with it yourself. But
I learned to take care of myself during that process. Obviously,
well not obviously for some people, I guess, but I
(08:51):
ended up getting on antidepressants and other things that really
helped me with my depression was physical activity, getting outside
and now I'm walking every day. You know, first of all,
there's just so much good stuff that happens in your
body when you walk, the way your brain responds to it,
the hormones that are released, and then it clears my mind.
(09:12):
It gives me a space that's just my own. I
am a special needs mom, I am a full time writer,
and I have other roles and sometimes it feels like
there's no time for me. And that time when I'm walking.
I walk for about an hour every morning. It's like
so mind clearing. It centers me. And in addition, to
all the benefits, you know, physically, and then I pray.
(09:35):
I grew up as a person of faith and it's
still a big part of my life. My faith and
what that looks like for me is very centering, meditating.
Just making sure that I feel connected to something that's powerful,
even beyond myself is a big help too. And my husband.
The thing is, I am not very good sometimes about
(09:55):
taking care of myself. He is much better sometimes it
taking care of me than I am. I'm about to
go on a tour and it's like ten cities in
fourteen days, and it's very intense, and the last time
we were on one. He always travels with me, and
he is the one who's like, Nope, she's not doing
anything else. We're done for the day. She's going home.
Where's your water? And he just kind of helps me.
(10:17):
So I think having people in your life who also
look out for you because I'm a little bit of
workaholic by nature, and he knows that about me. So
having people who know those things about you and help
take care of you is very important, at least it
is for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah, was there any concern for you, Kennedy about starting
an anti depressident. And I know a lot of creatives
sometimes worry about starting medication because they're worried about, you know,
will this impact my creative process? Was there any concern
for you there?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
You know? I think the thing that I had to
get past was and I didn't realize that I had this,
but growing up, I mentioned I grew up as a
person of faith, and in church, you're like, oh, girl,
you don't need a peel. Just pray about it. You know,
God got it, you know that kind of thing. I
didn't have any like expressed biases about medication, but then
when it was time for me to take it, I
(11:06):
was like, oh, you're prescribing something for me. What is
this going to do my brain? What is this going
to do to my But honestly, I was at such
a low place in my own life. I was having
panic attacks. I was barely able to get out of bed,
you know. And my husband was the first one to
notice it. It was during the pandemic, so I assumed
it was just it's the pandemic. Everybody's living like this,
(11:29):
and my husband's like, no, I think it's something else.
I was supposed to be writing before I let go
and I had not been able to. I thought it
was writer's block. I was talking to a writing coach
and she was like, I think this is more than
writer's block. I think you should talk to someone. And
I went through three therapists before I found the right one,
(11:50):
which is also what the heroin experience is in the
first book, because I wanted people to know sometimes the
first one doesn't take you, know, and you got to
keep looking until you find the right one. And when
you're at such a low place in your life, it
takes a lot just to take that first step, and
it can be so discouraging when you take that first
step and then it's not the right one. You're like,
you're telling me I have to take another step with
(12:12):
another person. And when I found the right one, she
was pretty quick to say, I think that we're dealing
with depression, and I think you should talk with a psychiatrists.
I think we should get you on medication. And I
remember one of my family members saying, you know exactly
what I thought, you bir just pray about it. You
don't need to take no pills. But I did. I
started taking an antidepressant and I felt so much better,
(12:33):
like pretty fast So for me, the improvement in my
mood and in my state of mind was worth dealing
with those questions, dealing with those issues. And I had
been so blocked creatively by depression that for me, I
had no thought that this could make it any worse.
My book was six months late at that point, and
(12:56):
when I had my first session with my therapist, I said,
I have a book to I just need you to
I just need I need to get this book done,
you know, I just need you to fix this so
I can get my book done. And she said, I
really don't care about your book, and I'm like, I
need you to care about my book at six months late,
you know, And she goes, I care about you, and
I think that if you really put in the time,
(13:16):
this could be the best book you've ever written. And
that book was before I let go, and it changed
my life, changed my career.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Thank you so much for sharing that, you know, I
appreciate you sharing that, but also appreciate you including that
in the story because I think it does help to
destigmatize mental health. Right, like the idea that sometimes you
meet with a therapist and they are not like the
best fit, and you keep trying so I'd love to
hear what let you know that this therapist was going
to be a better fit for you.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
You know, the first couple of therapists we just didn't jive.
And the first one was like, you need a manicure,
you need a massage, and I'm like, I know those
things like first like self care, but I recognize that
there was so much deeper, so many deeper things that
were going on with me, and we just didn't jibe.
(14:02):
And when I well, first of all, when she told
me she didn't care about my book, you know, she
was very frank, she pulled no punches, but she was
also very compassionate. She asked the right questions. She started
asking me questions about my sleep. She started asking questions
about hygiene. You know, some days I was like, I
don't even want to goe out of a bed, take a shower.
(14:24):
You know. She asked questions about what my eating was like,
what my libido was like, which was nonexistent. She started
asking the right questions and it didn't take her long
asking the right questions to identify what was really going on.
And I will say this, I know that it doesn't
have to be but she was also a black therapist,
and that made a difference personally for me. I felt
(14:44):
seen and understood. I felt like there were subtleties of
my experience, especially as a black woman in publishing, navigating
a very white dominated space. There are certain systemic barriers
I'm up against all the time. Having a therapist who
understands those subtleties, the subtleties of what that feels like
(15:05):
and what that looks like, and doesn't think I'm imagining
it or take it for granted, but considers it in
in our conversations makes a really really big difference for me.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So in Can't Get Enough, we see an expansion really
of Hendrix's story. He's really kind of stepping out into
the light on her own. So what was it like
to kind of expand her story and kind of have
her be the main character here?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
It was a delight, you know, in the sense that
this series, it's these three women, and you know, each
of them kind of gets their turn in the spotlight.
But I'm dropping like little hints about Hendrix throughout the
first two books, Like even in the first book we
mentioned her mom has some form of dementia, you know,
So that wasn't a surprise for anyone who had been
reading the series. The first book is heavy, very heavy,
(15:52):
you know, in a lot of ways, because we're dealing
with depression and then the grief. We're dealing with all
these things. It's a late term pregnancy, Like there is
all of this heavy material that's in the first book
that I tried to be very thoughtful about and wrote
in concert with therapist and people who live those experiences.
And Hendrix kind of comes in a lot of times
(16:13):
as comic relief. It's like, this is heavy. This is heavy.
This is heavy. And then Hendrix pops in with something
and you're like, Okay, I can breathe, Okay, I can laugh.
This is heavy. This is heavy. This is heavy. And
then Hendrix again is like, hey, you know, we're still
having fun. We're still here for whatever. And she also
in those other two books was incredibly supportive to her
friends and she showed up for them, and it was
(16:35):
apparent to the reader that this is somebody who's like
write or die, Like, this is somebody you want in
a pinch if you're having a hard time, this is
who you want. And it was really her time to
look to her friends to be that for her and
so building her out as not just comic relief, not
just the good time girl, but as a fully dimensional
woman who has joy, has all this joy, and is
(16:59):
so such a good friend to everybody else. You know,
she has the rich auntie vibes. She is childless by choice.
You know, she doesn't want to have kids ever and
doesn't feel like she should have to provide an excuse,
a reason, a trauma. You know, She's like, I just
don't want kids and that's okay. But she loves everybody
else's kids. So this is a very warm woman who
(17:21):
is there for everyone else. This is a story where
she has to learn to lean on her friends and
to lean on her family because her aunt comes in
and helps her with her mother's care. It's too much
for her on her own. And I really enjoy building
this aspect out. We knew that she was a businesswoman.
We knew that she was running her own business. She
manages celebrities, especially like reality TV star celebrities like think
(17:45):
you know, housewives kind of thing. We knew that about her.
But what we didn't know is her role in venture
capital and that she and a group of her so
wars had started a venture capital fund that was focused
on black women founders. You know, we didn't know that
about her. We didn't stand how committed to her community
she was that way, and that was a lot of
fun for me to build out. I didn't know a
(18:06):
lot about venture capital, and so the research for that
was fun. And I started writing this right around the
same time that everything was happening with the Fearless Fund,
So that was very interesting, and I really dug into
some of those themes of affirmative action DEI things that
are very prescient for where we are now, and at
the time I didn't realize how prescient it would be.
(18:28):
I wish it wasn't as prescient as it is. So
a lot of those aspects went into building her character out,
and then we see her as someone who for me,
she's a plus size brown woman, and I wanted her
to be the main character. I wanted her to be
someone's obsession, you know, in a healthy way. I call
(18:48):
it a chasing romance. Sometimes those are not the women
we are seeing at the center. Sometimes those are the
women who are the sidekicks, so that you know, the
funny best friend. I didn't want to treat her reductively.
I didn't want to do that. I wanted to build
her out in all of her dimensions, and then I
wanted to celebrate her at the center of the story
as the love interest and have this man who's incredibly
(19:09):
eligible and who could have anybody want her. That was
really important to me for women who are plus sized
like me, you know, women who are black like me,
to see ourselves at the center and to see ourselves
pursued and loved outrageously and called worthy. That was really
important for Hendrix as a character for what it represented,
(19:31):
and then for this story specifically.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Mm hmm. So you're talking about this love interest who
is Maverick in the story, right, so we see him
introduce there. When you think about, like who the love
interests for Hendrix would be, what really inspired the Maverick
care is there?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah? I always talk about usually I'm building out like
if it's a guy and a girl, you know, if
it's not sapphic or whatever, but if it's a guy
and a girl, I always build a woman first, and
then I build a man who is worthy of her.
That's how I think about my process as far as
character development is I build an incredible woman and then
(20:07):
I build a man who's worthy of her. And so
Hendrix is such a dynamic character, and she is very independent,
and she's like, I'm good all by myself. And her
big thing is I will never settle, you know. I'd
rather not have a husband. I'd rather not have a
romantic partner than have someone who doesn't deserve me. And
so that has been her perspective. And so I knew
(20:29):
that Maverick is going to have to be very special.
I knew that he was going to have to bring
it because Hendrix is not easily impressed. She doesn't need
anything from anyone else materially, but what she needed was
someone who could be a soft place for her to land.
And the thing I loved about Maverick is a lot
of times when I'm writing romance, there are certain tropes,
(20:50):
you know, that romance readers enjoy, and I like to
introduce those tropes but then kind of subvert them, like
kind of twist them around a little bit, like the
billionaire romance so big right now, and I'm like, yes, okay,
let's do this. But what if he's a billionaire who
gives outrageously to historically black colleges and universities? What if
he's a billionaire who sees how marijuana, you know, has
(21:13):
been criminalized in the past and specifically weaponized against black men,
and decides, once it's legal, I'm going to create a fund,
you know, and we're going to create generational wealth with
this now that it's legal. Like, what if we had
someone who is a man of means but also a
man of mission, a man of purpose, who supports his community.
(21:35):
What if that is what the billionaire trope looked like.
And so that's what Maverick is. And I'm a basketball girl,
you know, So Maverick is also you know, he's someone
who wants to be an owner, you know, of a
professional basketball team, which is not something we have enough
of where we see black men who are ownership in sports.
So that aspect is there in the story too. So
(21:56):
I love writing aspirational characters, not perfect, flawed, but also ambitious, yes,
but vulnerable, you know. And Hendrix is that, you know,
she has these vulnerabilities. And when you are a dynamic, powerful,
ambitious woman like Hendrix, you want to be vulnerable with
someone who is going to appreciate that about you and
(22:17):
who is going to be that soft place to land
and so I think that's that's how I formed Maverick,
thinking about what she would need and who is someone
who she would feel like she wasn't settling for, because
that's her big thing is if I'm doing okay all
by myself, why do I need you? You know? And
he showed her all of the soft things, the love,
the protection, the respect, and she wanted someone who would
(22:39):
respect her dreams and her ambitions equally, which a lot
of times for powerful women that can be hard for
men who don't check their own egos or who want
to feel like women need to be dependent on them.
So he needed to be someone who's very secure, you know,
in his own manhood and in his place in Hendrix's life.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
More from our conversation after the break. So you mentioned
this a little earlier, but there is a beautiful parallel
I think between like the romantic love interests we see
in the Sisterhood love language that we see kind of
(23:19):
among the three characters. Can you talk a little bit
about that and like why it felt important to include
that across this trilogy.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yes, absolutely. I think one of my favorite quotes from
the whole trilogy is there aren't enough sonnets for friendship,
and I think that embodies exactly what you're talking about,
which is that culturally, we often put so much emphasis
on romantic love and don't really recognize and acknowledge how
important other types of love are. And one of the
(23:45):
ones I really wanted to lean into with this one
is friendship and sister love. These three women think of
themselves as platonic soulmates, you know, they think, these are
my people. We're in it for life. Anything they need,
That's what I'm gonna do. I grew up seeing that,
and I didn't realize it, I don't think until I
got deeper into the series and I realized those are
(24:06):
the kinds of friendships that my mom has and that
she surrounded herself with and seeing the importance of community
and sisterhood, and I wanted this story to reflect that.
And I think that we're in a time where community
is more important than it's ever been. You know, when
you can't depend on some of the systems that are
supposed to be there for you, or the government or
(24:26):
whatever it is, having an inner circle, having a community,
having friends is tatamount. And I think that's what this
big part of this series is about. And I also
talk in this series about loving yourself, especially in the
second book, about how loving yourself is the foundation for
all those other loves you know, and really leaning into
(24:47):
all about love by Belle Hooks, really leaning into that
as a text that's a foundation for the series, but
building on that familial love, sister love, and friendship, and
then of course romantic love. So that's kind of how
I approached it. But it's it's esteemed, you know, in
a way that sometimes sometimes people don't see as much
(25:07):
in romance because of course the emphasis is so much
on romantic love. But I also think that there's so
much we learn about people when we know who their
friends are and when we know who their family is.
Like there's to me that is a part of building character,
is who are your friends? Because that also tells me
a lot about what you value. It tells me about
what you enjoy, what makes you laugh, who you are
(25:29):
when the cameras are off, or when you are not
at work or you're not you know, you can do
the code switch and you can completely relax, like who
are you then? And I think one of the best
contexts for that is true friendship. And so there's a
lot about character that we learn when we have that,
and so that was really important to me.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So there's this beautiful layer I think also where we
see like this balance between resistance and softness for Hendrix
that I feel like is really a big deal for
black women, right like when we're often for to choose
one or the other. Can you talk about like the
tension that exists there and why it felt important to
include that.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yes, I think I already knew you know, that has
been a tension for us forever. You know, that balance
of when do I get to be soft and when
do I have to work? You know in culture, when
you're hearing all the time you got to be three times,
four times, five times is good. You know, all of
those things inform the way we work and informs the
(26:27):
way we dream. You know, it affects all of that.
And Hendrix is kind of that, like black Girl, Magic Girl,
And there's this one passage where she talks about black
Girl magic and she talks about how it's not a
wand it's work and that so many times we're magical
out of necessity because we have to be to survive,
(26:48):
and that it's resilience. So in thinking about that, It's
so funny because we are in a place where, especially
Black women in America, the overwhelming majority of us had
a vision for this country that didn't come to pass,
and that was very disillusioning and very painful. I think
(27:11):
so many of us grieved it and are still grieving it.
And it's interesting to see as the protests break out
that we are not showing up the way that we
have before physically, like in the streets. It was so
funny because someone posted it was in Atlanta, which I've
spent twenty years in Atlanta, so Atlanta feels most like
home to me, but it was in Atlanta, and it
showed this protest out in the street and these three
(27:34):
or four black women like having mimosas or something like
looking out the window like Okay, I see you go off.
You know, Like we are in this space where and
I am constantly finding that balance because at the same
time that I want to protect myself and I'm also
(27:54):
a little indignant that certain things have happened when we
tried to warn people, and we have always been the
engine for resistance in this country. It is interesting to
be at a place where we're like, oh, we're going
to be soft for a while. You know, we're going
to get our fans out. We're gonna, you know, learn
a new dance, and we're gonna do all these things.
But at the same time, I am also a mom
(28:17):
of a special needs son, and so I'm concerned about medicaid.
I'm concerned about medicare for my parents. I'm concerned about
the world for my queer friends. So it's like balancing
how do I express resistance in a way that is
safe for me right now? And I am finding that.
I think a lot of black women are finding that,
(28:37):
and every it looks different for everybody, and we all
have to figure it out for ourselves. But it's so
funny because I had written the first version, a couple
of versions of this book, and we were in the
final edits and the election happened, and I changed the
dedication the day after the election, and I changed the
(28:57):
dedication to this for the ones who have used your
magic to lift, protect, and illuminate everybody else. Rest is
your new resistance. Rest and shine My loves Rest and shine.
And I think that's kind of where we are. You know,
there's this balance of resting, resisting, but also shining polishing
(29:18):
ourselves up, taking care of ourselves in the ways that
feel right for us as individuals, creating community, making sure
that we are supporting each other. Those bonds in our side,
our community are, like I said before, more important than ever,
with so many systems that are supposed to create any
kind of equity, are supposed to create support being stripped.
For me, I can't check out completely because it's not
(29:41):
just like this country's going to you know, pot or whatever.
It is specific lives of people I love that are
attached to those things. So I think it's figuring out
how you want to resist and what feels right for you,
but then also protecting your peace. And I think that
Hendrix's story kind of embodies that. We see them that
the and we see her courtside with like multi thousand
(30:03):
dollars tickets, and we see her on a yacht, you know,
and we see her on a private plane, like we
see her balling and iceed out. We see all of
those things and like that life. But then we also
see her when it is the right time and when
it is her choice, on the front lines of resistance,
specifically around black women in venture capital and fighting for
(30:26):
more for her community and for women black founders, black
women founders. So I think her story is that balance.
We see all of that soft life stuff, but at
the same time we also see her when she's ready
and on her term, standing up, resisting fighting.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
More from our conversation after the break. So I don't
want to spoil it because I know the reader is
wing too experience it for themselves. But there is a
part that I think will stick with a lot of
people and maybe take them to their journals to think
(31:03):
about this question for themselves. So there's a moment that
causes Hendrick to ask herself, was Maverick asking me to
give up on my dreams or asking to run with
me while I chase them?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
So?
Speaker 1 (31:13):
What made you include this moment and what do you
think this will maybe open up or allow other people
to think about in their own lives.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, I think it is I mentioned earlier, a partner
who respects your dreams, you know, the same way they
respect their own. It's sometimes it can be hard to
find a partner, especially with kind of traditional male you know,
man woman dynamics. It can be hard to find a
(31:41):
partner who doesn't expect you to sideline your dreams. To
subjugate your ambitions to his. And I think that that
was an important question for Hendrix because she's like, I'm
not stopping. I'm not stopping, I'm not slowing down. I'm
not compromising. I'm not stopping what I'm doing. So we
can do you know, whatever you do, I might not
(32:01):
be following you like she needed a partner who understood that.
And I think it is more common than not that
a lot of women we have big dreams, big ambitions,
and when we get married, when we have children, it
changes the dynamics for us in a way that it
doesn't traditionally change them for men. We are the ones
(32:22):
who potentially end up with pregnancy leaves that maybe slow
us down in our career tracks. We tend to be
the ones who bear the burden of taking care of
the home, of taking care of the kids. Now that
you can have a partner who helps with that, like absolutely,
but conventionally, historically women have borne the brunt of that,
and it can slow down our ambitions. It can for
(32:43):
some of us, sideline our dreams. And I think it's
really important for you to ask questions about your own
dreams and your own ambitions and the thing I love
about Hendrix too, and all the women in this book
is that they're older, older than most romance novels. Like
most romance novels, a lot of romance novels, you know,
there are people in there twenties and maybe early thirties.
These women are forty years old. They've lived a little,
(33:03):
they got some good miles on them. But that also
means Hendrix knows exactly who she is, and she knows
exactly what she wants from life. And sometimes when we
come together with a partner and we haven't taken the
time to really know ourselves, we haven't taken the time
to really explore our own ambitions. We haven't taken the
time to really figure out what are our dreams and
(33:25):
how are we going to accomplish those things. Sometimes, when
we haven't spent time with ourselves to understand who we
are and what we want, when we get with a partner,
some of that can be absorbed by their dreams, by
their ambitions, or by the shape they want to see
us in. Hendrix is like, I got a shape. You know,
this is who I am. I'm not going to try
(33:47):
to change you. Don't you try to change me? If
we can exist together if we can love each other
as we are. That doesn't mean that you don't ever compromise,
but there's a respect for how a person is made.
There's a respect for what a person ambitions and dreams are.
And I think that's what we see with Hendrix, a
very strong sense of self that and she talks about it.
She's like, you know, in my thirties, I was in
(34:08):
the streets looking for what, But now I'm settled. I
know who I am, I know what I want, and
I'm not going to change that to be with someone.
I want to be with someone who wants me as
I am. And I think that's something that we as
women have to ask ourselves. What are we willing to compromise?
What aren't we willing to compromise? What aren't we willing
(34:29):
to settle for? How do we protect our dreams and
our ambitions and at the same time align ourselves with
a partner who loves and respects us. Those are some
of the questions that kind of rise to the surface
in this story. And when we talk about children, it's
kind of self eliminating a little bit, because there are
men who are like I want a family, you don't
want kids, You're not for me. And Hindus is like, well,
(34:50):
I don't want kids, so you're not for me. I'm
not for you. Deuces cool, have a great life. And
it's so interesting because when I was talking with some
friends when I was first writing the story, and I
was telling them that she was childless by choice. And
this was before, like Hendricks has been childlessed by choice
since the first story, which was in twenty twenty two,
and so we didn't have all of the cultural conversation
(35:12):
that we've had around child's by choice over the last
year or so. In the same way, that's just who
she was. But I remember some of my friends going, oh,
are you concerned that people will think she's cold? And
I was like, why why would people think she's cold
because she doesn't want to have kids. And I'm like, oh, wow,
you think that you think that a woman is cold
(35:32):
if she doesn't want to have children. And they're great people,
you know, but it's so baked into us that as
a woman, that is an expression of our womanhood. And
I've been telling people we are not our wombs, you know,
Like this country is so fixated on defining women by
our wombs, our reproductive rights and whether or not we
(35:54):
have kids and all of the things, and I'm like,
hands off, we are bigger than our reproductive organs, Like
why are you defining if I'm cold or if I'm warm,
or if I'm generous or if I'm kind by if
I have children. And there's this part of the book
where Hendrix talks about, you know, I may not have kids.
There are women like me. We may never have children,
but we are godmothers, we are aunts. We are pushing
(36:17):
our love out into the world on our terms. Let
us love people the way that feels right for us.
And so I think that's something that all of those
questions I think rise to the surface when you're reading
this book, or at least I hope they do. I
wanted them to.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, So when I think about book talk and Booksagram,
it feels synonymous with Kennedy Ryan for me in another ways, Yeah,
Like I feel like your books was some of the
first that I saw, like, oh, people are like really
going to their for you pages and telling other people
to like read about them.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
And I think that that.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Presents probably an interesting kind of conundrum when you're thinking about,
like how do you write your next books because you
know the fans are so involved, they will have responses,
They have lots of opinions, they have ideas about where
they think the story should go. So how do you
balance that right, like kind of you know, giving the
people what they want, so to speak with your own process.
Really as a creative.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
It's interesting because I actually have kind of a calculus
for how I write stories. It's like kind of a
three legged stool, you know, Like there are three things
that drive me in storytelling. One is creative conviction, like
what do I believe what is important to me and
what do I believe needs to be at the center
of this story. The other is intellectual curiosity. What am
(37:31):
I curious about? What do I want to learn? And
I hope that if it's something that's going to be
compelling enough for me and exciting for me to learn,
it would be exciting for our readis to learn. And
then artistic urgency, which is there's something happening right now
in the world that I feel like needs more discourse,
more shine. Is there an intersection between my work, my storytelling,
(37:51):
and this thing that's happening right now in the world
that will illuminate and amplify that discourse, and if so,
I'll write it. So those are kind of those these
three element that are present when I'm deciding what I'm
going to write, and that is a me process, that
is a process that insulates from anyone else's voice. We
talk about writing to market. I don't write to market,
(38:12):
which is when you look at trends and you're like, oh,
I'm gonna write this, I'm gonna write this. My career
is dumbfounding, do you know what I mean? Like, because
I don't write to the things that are popular, and
sometimes I write things or people are like, is that
even romance? You know, it feels like I'm often writing
against the grain. I don't you know sometimes understand how
(38:35):
my books have become even a little popular, except that
there are people who are drawn to the things that
I'm drawn to, which is I like things that feel
like real life but also with joy. And I hear
people's opinions all the time. You know, when you talk
about BookTalk, you talk about TikTok. I love TikTok, like
I'm on TikTok all the time, but I don't want
(38:56):
to see myself on TikTok. You know. I don't want
to see people talking about me TikTok, but it's inevitable,
do you know what I mean? Like, every time I
go on TikTok, the algorithm knows, oh, you're Kennedy Ryan.
We're going to show you stuff about Kennedy Ryan, And
I'm like, no, I don't want to see any of it.
I don't want to know, you know. And it's so
funny because there is this I have intentions I always
(39:18):
talk about. I say this a lot. I say that
I don't just release a book. I send a book
on a mission, and I think about storytelling from a
missional perspective. There's something that I want that story to accomplish.
It is written from various specific belief systems, and it
has intentions. And when you're writing like that, when you
are crafting a story from there out, other people's opinions
(39:41):
don't necessarily come into it, as it's intrinsically insulated from that.
And then when it's out there and I've kind of
formed it, I'm like, well, what what kind of bone
could I throw? You know? A reader like, oh, he
could be a millionaire. But the story, the core of
the story does not grow from that, oh, like in
a storyline before I let go. One of the things
(40:02):
I was really concerned with, which is the first book
in the series, was destigmatizing mental health, specifically for the
black community and then most specifically for black men. And
so we see a man who is resistant to therapy
and then over the course of that story understands, oh,
I need this, like I won't survive without this. How
(40:23):
have I made it this long without this? And he
has this journey from being completely resistant to it till
by the end like knock emergency, I need to talk
to my therapists, right. And there are readers who are like,
oh my gosh, why couldn't Josiah just have from the
beginning been like all in on therapy and he's not
my book boyfriend. And I'm like, well, I wasn't. Really,
I don't care about that, you know, I don't care
(40:45):
about book boyfriends. I care about that journey. My intention
was that journey. And the reason I did that is
because I know there are women whose partners are resistant
to therapy, women who would read that book and be
like this, this is what I'm talking about, baby, And
when I tell you, so many women message me. I
(41:05):
just gave it to him. I just gave it to
him and said, read it. And now we're in therapy.
He's in therapy. I call my insurance company, see if
they'll cover therapy. That is what I wanted. If he
is your book boyfriend, that is a side effect, that's
a byproduct to me. I don't write to those things.
I'm not thinking about those things. But at the same time,
in that book, where I was dealing with all of
(41:26):
those really heavier themes, and I had all these intentions,
and I sent the book on a mission. You know,
there is this point when they go to this hotel
and it's the only one bed trope. You know. It's
like they go to this hotel and they're supposed to
have two rooms. This is a classic romance trope, and
it's like, oh, there's only one room. There's only one bed.
And as soon as a romance reader sees it, they're go, oh,
(41:48):
it's the only one bed trope, you know what I mean.
So it's like, oh, gosh, this book, this was only
one bedo, you know. So it's like I can thread
those things in. But a reader readers desires are never
dictating what I write. So that's kind of the balance is, Oh,
but look, I can give you only one bed. Oh
(42:08):
but look, I can give you this really cool meet cute.
Oh look, but I'm going to write what I'm going
to write and it's not going to be affected by
what people want.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
So so what would you say? Kennedy Ryan's story always
promises readers.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
I think that a Kennedy Ryan's story promises a woman
who is powerful, and that doesn't always mean what people assume.
I think that there's the strong that myth of the
strong black woman. I think I have characters who are
Some of them are like Hendrick's, you know, really really
powerful and right, you know, up front about ambitions. But
(42:46):
then we have some who they're not the one who
as soon as you walk into the room they're the
center of everything, who are quieter but strong in their
own way. So I think there's a strength, but I
also think there's a vulnerability in all of these characters.
And part of that is to say we don't have
to be strong all the time. We should be able
to be flawed, we should be able to have weaknesses,
(43:06):
we should be able to have pain that's acknowledged equally
and at the same time, you're going to see a
partner because it's a romance. You're going to see a
partner who loves that woman outrageously, who respects her as
an equal, and who makes her feel esteemed and celebrated.
I tend to write from the margins to the center.
(43:29):
And what I mean by that is one of the
hallmarks of my books is what I call sceneiness, meaning
I like to write about women who are not used
to seeing themselves at the center of narrative and culture.
So I like to write about black women, brown women,
disabled women, chronically ill women, fat women, you know, like
(43:49):
neuro divergence, like those are not always the center of
the narrative. So I like to write from the margins
to the center. So you see that a lot in
my work. You're like, oh, okay, I see you. You know,
you right in the meadle. Are the main character. You're
not the sidekick, you're not the funny best friend. It's you.
So you often see that kind of like someone who
you're not used to seeing at the center of narrative
(44:10):
and culture, pulled from the edges to the center. You're
going to see a woman who doesn't settle, and even
if she settles at one point. Part of her journey
is figuring out that she doesn't have to. When you
see a character like Sulidad in the second book, The
Pink One, this could be us. This is a woman
who's married to you know, I'm not going to cuss
(44:31):
on your show, a pos, all right, married to a
pos trash garbage, and when he shows his true colors,
you know his true nature, this deep betrayal. She has
to start all over, and she has to start all over.
She has three kids, and she's now going from being
a stay at home mom to being a provider for
(44:52):
her home, maintaining this house, building a career, all of this,
but a career that's grounded in what she's gifted in.
And she's like, I have given him so much of
my power. So that whole journey is taking that power
back piece by piece and rebuilding herself into someone that
she and her daughters can be proud of. So every
journey looks different, but it is that how am I
(45:15):
taking my power, claiming my power, keeping my power, sharing
my power where it's necessary. And I think the other
thing that you'll see a lot in a Kennedy Ryan novel,
is I really see my work as this intersection of
swoon and social commentary. You will see that in most
of my books, you know, whether it's destigmatizing therapy, or
(45:37):
discussion of all the things that happen in book two
with her and rebuilding her career, or it's you know
what we see in book three, which is obviously what
does it look like now for us as a generation
caring for aging parents, but also the social commentary of
what does equity look like? Why is equity worth fighting for?
Why is it still a valid conversation for marginalized people
(46:03):
to still be demanding more than what we have been
given and what we've had opportunity for. Why is that
still a valid conversation? And all of those things are
going to happen in the context of a romance novel.
You know, I've had commentary on land grab. I've written
books that are commentary on climate change and the voter suppression,
missing and murdered indigenous women, intimate partner violence, like my
(46:26):
catalog is all of those things. So I really see
a lot of my work as this intersection of swoon
and social commentary. How do those things go together? And it's,
like I said, for me, romance is the most digestible genre,
so it goes down smooth all of a sudden. I'm
here for the kisses and the swoons and the spice,
and I'm like, oh wait, I'm asking myself real questions.
(46:48):
I'm in my journal right now, like what happened? You know?
And so that is a hallmark of my work.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Yeah, I love that swoon in social commentary, we love it.
So where can we stay connected with you? Kennedy? Where
can we can't get enough? Where can we find you online?
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Can't get enough? Comes out May thirteenth. I'm so excited
about it. It'll be out an ebook, print, audio, anywhere
you buy books, Amazon, indie stores. One thing that I'm
really proud of, and anyone who's listening can find me
on Instagram. You know, I'm on Instagram. I'm on barely
on x but still there. I'm on TikTok. But I
(47:27):
have a bio and if you go to the link
in that bio, it will take you wherever you want
to go. One of the things I'm most proud of
about this particular campaign is that we my publisher and
I are partnering with black owned bookstores and we have
a pre order campaign that is specifically for black owned bookstores,
and when you buy, can't get enough through a black
(47:48):
owned bookstore. It's linked to my bio. You click there,
it'll show you all the black owned bookstores that are participating.
There are certain things that you can only get from
the Black owned bookstore pre order campaign. It's like full
color art, it's you know, sign book plates, it is
a bookmark, it's all you know, it's all very specific,
and you can't get it anywhere other than our Black
(48:09):
owned bookstore campaign. So that's one of my favorite ways
for people to buy these books. And I did that
for my last release, which was real, and we're doing
it again for this one because a lot of times
we are begging black authors, are begging retailers, we are
begging the big stores. We are begging people please carry
our books, Please give us visibility, please make space for us,
(48:30):
please get us on your shelves. And black owned bookstores
twenty four to seven, three sixty five amplifying our stories,
supporting us as creatives. And so this is kind of
my way of saying, you amplify us, I amplify you.
I want to prioritize black owned bookstores and I want
to incentivize readers to support and buy from black owned bookstores.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Beautiful. Be sure to include all of that information in
our show notes. Thank you so much for spending some
time with me to day, Kennedy. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
For having me really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Thank you. I'm so glad Kennedy was able to join
us today. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn
more about her or it's a pre order your copy
of Can't Get Enough, be sure to visit the show
notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session four ten,
and don't forget to text this episode to two of
(49:21):
your girls right now and tell them to check it out.
Did you know that you can leave us a voicemail
with your questions and suggestions for the podcast. If you
have movies you'd like to suggest, or books you'd like
us to review, or even topics that you want to
hear us discuss, drop us a message at Memo dot
fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and let us know
what's on your mind. We just might feature it on
(49:42):
the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,
visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com
slash directory. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Indechubu
and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank
y'all so much for joining me again this week. I
look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
(50:04):
Take good care, what
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