July 30, 2025 • 43 mins
This week’s guest is Renée Bryan, a Licensed Professional Counselor and educator with a Master's in Education from Mercer University and a Master's in Clinical Mental Health Counseling from Richmont Graduate University. What makes Renée's work particularly compelling is her role as a mental health co-responder with law enforcement. This growing field many mental health professionals may not even know exists. In today's conversation, we explore what it's like to ride alongside police officers daily, responding to mental health crises in real-time.
Renée takes us inside the day-to-day realities of co-response work, from gas station interventions to family crises, sharing the de-escalation strategies that work in the field and the safety protocols that protect both clinicians and community members. We discuss the challenges of navigating different professional languages between mental health and law enforcement, the current state of community mental health resources, and how this collaborative model is achieving a 98% diversion rate from incarceration to treatment.
About the Podcast
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy Hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Okay, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session four twenty two of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation after a word from our sponsors. This week's guest
is Renee Brian, a licensed professional counselor and educator with
(01:19):
a master's in Education from Mercer University and a master's
in Clinical Mental health Counseling from Richmont Graduate University. What
makes Renee's work particularly compelling is her role as a
mental health co responder with law enforcement. This growing field
many mental health professionals may not even know exist. In
today's conversation, we explore what it's like to ride alongside
(01:40):
police officers daily responding to mental health crises in real time.
RENEE takes us inside the day to day realities of
coresponse work, from gas station interventions to family crises, sharing
the de escalation strategies that work in the field and
the safety protocols that protect both clinicians and community members.
We discussed the challenges of navigating different professional languages between
(02:03):
mental health and law enforcement, the current state of community
mental health resources, and how this collaborative model is achieving
a ninety eight percent diversion rate from incarceration to treatment.
For any mental health professionals curious about crisis work or
wondering how to get involved in corresponse programs, this conversation
offers practical insights into training requirements, the emotional toll of
(02:26):
the work, and why RENEE believes this collaboration represents a
crucial evolution in both mental health care and community policing.
If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please
share it with us on social media using the hashtag
TVG in Session, or join us over in our patreon
to talk more about the episode, You can join us
(02:47):
at Community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation.
Thank you so much for joining us today, Renee.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Thank you for having me, doctor Joy. I'm so excited
to sit with you and to just chat to highlight
this important conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, so I was very excited. So at first you
were a tend at our inaugural therapist. I'm in and
we got to chat in right, and you talk to
me a little bit about the work that you were
doing working with law enforcement and being a first responder,
and so I really really wanted to have some conversation
about that because that's something I've been thinking about, like
what does it look like for more mental health professionals
(03:27):
to work with law enforcement. So if you could tell
me a little bit, Renee, about your background and how
you got started doing some of this work.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So, I have a background in the field of education.
I've always been very passionate about working with underserved communities
as well as diverse populations. I think also opening my
own practice as well as working in a psychiatric hospital
that gave me a lot of exposure and it also
(03:56):
allowed me to see that I have a now for
collaboration as well as finding solutions in the mental health field.
I also believe that through my work both in my
own business as well as at the psychiatric facility or hospital,
(04:17):
I have always been able to build and maintain strong
working relationships with various stakeholders, and I think this, coupled
with my love of justice, actually made it a natural
next phase for my career.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
So I'm sure there is no typical day, but can
you walk us through what some days look like for
you in your role?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
You're absolutely right, no day is the same. I come
in and I actually work on a team where there
are six officers and six clinicians who are all trained.
Of course, the clinicians are trained in mental health, but
the officers also go through a series of training to
become a behavioral health officer. Now there's still police officers,
(05:02):
but they're just on a behavioral health unit. And so
I'm paired with the officer who's my partner. I go
out with him every day that we're scheduled, and we
respond to calls and so for example, as you know
of police work, they get dispatched to calls and so
a dispatcher will say, hey, you'll hear it on the radio.
(05:25):
There's a person in crisis, and they'll give all the
details of what's going on with that person, and we'll
respond to that call if we're requested too, and if
it's something that we need that we are required to do,
because a lot of times the police officers do get
a lot of train the regular police officers that are
(05:45):
not a part of our unit, they are also trained
in de escalation tactics and strategies, and so sometimes we're
not going to respond to that call because they're able
to handle it themselves, and we'll follow up or something
of that nature. But a typical day could be meeting
someone at a gas station who's in crisis, someone who's
(06:08):
in their home or out in the community somewhere that
is in crisis. It looks different daily, and it just
depends on what's happening. Whether that person is suicidal, sometimes
they could be homicidal, or also going through like a
psychotic psychosis, psychotic break, and so we're responding to that person.
(06:30):
They may need to be voluntarily committed or they just
may need resources. It just depends on what is going on.
So I will go out there and assess them to
see if they just need resources or if they need
to be taken to a hospital for stabilization.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Got it, So, Renne, and tell me, so, are you
just at the police station on the days that you're
assigned waiting for calls like the other officers are, So
you're there on location when the calls come through.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yes, it's a common nation. So I'm either at the
precinct or we're actually out in the field already. Maybe
we're doing a follow up with solon who we had
to encounter with. Maybe we're, you know, doing something in
the community, talking to people or at a community event.
It just depends on what is needed for that day.
(07:21):
But a lot of times we're already out in the field,
and sometimes we'll assist other officers with other type of
calls that are maybe mental health related or something that
the officer can handle, because in general they're still officers,
but our main job is to deal with the mental
health aspect or component of calls.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Got it. So you mentioned that sometimes you're called and
then other times you're not because the officers have received
some of the mental health and behavior health training. So
what's the determining factor about whether you will get called
versus the officer will just handle it well?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Depending on the level of crisis. Some people just need resources,
they just want someone to talk to, and so if
that's the case, a lot of the times they'll just
offer our resource and we'll connect with them at a
later time. But the majority of the time, if it's
someone who is in crisis actively, we're going to be
dispatched to that call. Of course, if someone's suicidal and
(08:21):
if someone is having like a psychotic break, we will
definitely be called because seven times out of ten, that
person's going to probably need to go to the emergency
room to get emergent care un stabilization. So it just
depends on what is actually going on in that moment.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And is this a state initiative, is this something like
a local county initiative? Like who is the organizing body
who you work for?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
There was a Senate bill I don't know if you
heard of. It's called Senate Bill four O three and
it's the Georgia Behavioral Health, Peace Officer and co Responder Act,
And basically that kind of shapes the work that we're doing.
Corresponding has been something that has been going on for
some time, but it's more so prevalent now and a
(09:10):
lot of states are trying to get those programs going
or running. One of the things that is, I believe
stated in that act is that they prefer or they
would like for law enforcement to collaborate with a community
service board that's already in the community, that has their
hands already dealing with a number of patients or a
(09:35):
number of people in the community. They combine or collaborate
with law enforcement in that way. So there's various programs
all throughout the state of Georgia in general. There's different models.
For example, our model is I actually go out and
ride with the officer daily, where some other places the
(09:56):
clinician actually maybe will go to the site or detel
health and things of that nature. So there's different ways
to do it, and I think it depends on the
needs of that particular community and how that law enforcement
community is organized, and so it just depends how many
clinicians they need and all of that. So there's various
(10:17):
factors that go into it. But that's basically more so
how it works, if you.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Will, and what additional training did you need a complete
to be able to effectively work in this kind of
a position.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Well, I actually believe that working out a psychiatric hospital
really prepared me in a major way for this again
because I was able to see all of the different
acute mental illness. But when I began doing this work,
I actually shadowed another clinician who was already in the field,
(10:53):
already doing it, and shadowed those teams. So there were
already teams in the field that we're doing it, so
you just basically shadow them. And I've also continually getting training.
It's ongoing because it's more so newer in the past
few years, especially like within the State of Georgia. It's
more so being embraced and utilized my unit and within
(11:18):
our department. We're continually getting training and making sure that
we're staying fresh as it pertains to that like de
escalation and all of those things.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So speaking of de escalation, can you talk to us
about some strategies that you might typically use when you're
out in the field.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Oh, yes, for sure. I think about how sometimes you
know when people are on ten, and I'm sure you've
witnessed that before too. Someone is on ten, and I
try to model being a stable presence. You know someone
is on ten, I'm on one, you know, or maybe two,
because I know that matching them is not going to
(11:57):
help the situation. So that is one of the ways,
and you'll be surprised how that kind of calms people down.
Allowing them to share what's bothering them, must triggering them,
just letting them as I like to call it, vomited
out if you will, just sharing whatever they're dealing with.
I think it's also important to actively listen to them,
(12:21):
right Empathy, the things that we do as therapists. You
just utilize those things out in the field as well.
My body language is really important because people know you care,
right They can sense if you really are there to
help them, or you know, if you really care about
them and want to hear what they're actually experiencing in
(12:44):
that moment. I'll use deep breathing exercises sometimes, you know,
if the situation constitutes that, right, you know, just take
some deep breaths before you continue sharing or what have you.
Sometimes I'll say, come on, let's walkalk a little bit,
you know, let's walk away from maybe the trigger could
be someone in their house. Let's step away from the
(13:07):
door or what have you for a little while, take
a step outside. So those are just some of the
things that come to mind. Actively listening empathy, not being
on a ten when they're on a ten.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, So when you are on a call, Renee, let's
say you show up, you mentioned the gas station, right like,
So let's say you show up to the gas station
there's somebody there who's in distress. Are you kind of
getting out of the car first and making contact with
the person or is the officer kind of starting the
conversation and then inviting you in.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Oh no, no, I don't step out first. In fact,
we have protocols and procedures as far as safety is concerned.
The officers who are not on our unit, they respond
to the call first and make sure they're safety, that
the person doesn't have any weapons, that it's safe for
me and my partner to come. Then I have that
(14:01):
additional layer of my partner being there because he's an officer.
If he feels something is not safe, he'll tell me
to stay in the vehicle or will be down the
street from where the crisis is happening, and he'll leave
me there until he feels that it's safe enough for
me to come and talk to the person. So there's
(14:22):
those additional layers make sure that there's safety there.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
So more from our conversation after the break. You know
something you said earlier when they made me think about
I mean, I know you are also aware of just
the state of community mental health right now, right, and
(14:48):
so I would imagine that your job is tougher because
where are the resources that the people can get connected
to after you do this like on site assessment. Right,
So you mentioned the emergency rooms, so you talk about
like just the state of community mental health and like
what other resources would be great to kind of help
the supplement the work that you're already doing.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Oh, doctor Joy, that is a thing, especially here in Georgia.
I know that some states have a plethora of resources.
So one of the things that I think is important
as this work is important in terms of building those relationships, right,
not only was law enforcement, but with the community. So
making sure that we build relationships with hospitals so they
(15:32):
know we have a procede journal process of us actually
being able to bring a person there. They know us
they have that relationship. But then we also are linked
with a community service board too, so that linkage also
we can connect them directly to that resource. And then
also understanding that some people just need to talk to
(15:55):
someone some people just need therapy. So I will use
therapy black girls to refer people. I also use psychology today.
I'll refer people to those types of platforms if I
feel like they're stable enough. Right. And then when you
talk about resources, honestly, I know we don't have the
(16:15):
state hospitals like we used to. I really believe that
that's needed, but I feel like it needs to be
created to a point where people can get integrative and
holistic care. Right. It needs to be a place where
they can also live and they can maybe even work,
and even get in touch with the land around them,
(16:38):
because I know that that can be very therapeutic for
people just having a garden or things of that nature.
And so here in Georgia, I think there is a
need for more resources for sure, and I know that
there are some things probably coming down the pipes as
far as that is concerning. I work with what I
(16:58):
have right link people with resource because that's actually one
of the goals is to get the person either stabilized,
link them with the resources that are offered that we
have access to so that they can be healthier in
the mind, body, and soul. And so I think that
those are some of the things that we can do,
(17:21):
and I do see an impact now we know that.
Of course, some people will cycle, right, a lot of
people I'll see, you know in the community, but at
the same time, or build a relationship with them because
they know us, they see us, they know that we're
here to help them, maybe if they've seen us before
on a different call. And so it's about banding together,
(17:44):
utilizing the other people, the other partners in the community
to assist with getting people the services that they need
and plugging them into them.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
You mentioned follow ups a couple of times, right that
maybe you know another officer will hind maybe you'll follow
up later with resources. What does the follow up look like.
Is it like a one time follow up to say, like, hey,
just checking in, were you able to use the resources
that I shed or is it kind of continuous follow up.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
It's a combination of both. And sometimes I'll do an
in person follow up and people really like that because
again it's building that relationship and that trust. And sometimes
it'll just be a phone call and people are very
appreciative of that because again they're realizing, like, oh, law
enforcement and the clinicians really care about us, you know,
(18:33):
and they care about our community, and so it can
look like just giving a personal call. Hey, we were
out there the other day. How are you doing today?
Did you take advantage of the resources that I sent?
Was there a roadblock in those resources? Is there someone
I need to call to ensure that you can get
into that program that I referred you to. It looks
(18:55):
like that, It looks like advocacy, and it looks like
continued compact and care for the person. And I call
them and sometimes they'll call me back later on. So
it's more about building those relationships because you never know
when you may wind into that person again, because they
may have another crisis, or they may just reach out
(19:18):
because they need to get re enrolled in services. Since
we have that collaborative relationship right between law enforcement and
a community service board, then you're able to do that
and to offer that and link them as best you can.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
So mm hmm. And on your unit, So they're the
police officers, they're you and the other clinicians. Are there
other case and managers or other people who could help
with like this connecting to resources or is that kind
of the clinicians job to continue to stay helping and
connecting them to resources.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Well, it's the clinicians. It's a part of our work.
But at the same time, that's why the follow up
is so important to empower them to govern them themselves accordingly,
if you will, or to take advantage of the resources
that we're offering. What we also do with the Community
Service Board is that we can maybe email that person
(20:13):
that's in charge of maybe that program, Hey, this person
will be great for your program, for this program, can
we reach out to them and encourage them. So it's
like that wrap around services type of feel reaching out
to the person, reminding them, and if they're not, then
reaching out to the person who's in charge of the
(20:34):
program or is working with the program, those case managers
right at the Community Service Board or the mental health clinic,
if you will, and asking them, hey, this person will
be great for this program. Would you mind reaching out
to them? Because a lot of times the people in
the community, they've already maybe had experiences with the clinic,
(20:54):
but maybe they fell off, you know, maybe they're just
not taking care of themselves, or they've stopped taking their
medication or whatever the case may be, and so it's
always about encouraging them to take care of themselves.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
So I would imagine that the training we have as
mental health professionals is different than the training law enforcement
officers have, right, And so I can imagine there may
be some challenges in terms of like communicating which you
think a client's needs or versus maybe with the law
enforcement officer things should be happening. Can you talk about
any challenges and how you navigate kind of speaking that
(21:29):
different language.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, that's a good question. I think that I'm very
diplomatic in my dealings, and I think it boils down
to respect, right understanding, Like I respect when you do.
Because one of the things that I have realized doing
this work is officers are humans, right, So I've learned
(21:52):
to really humanize them. So I respect what they do
because that legal stuff and all that. I'm like, that's
your area of expertise, and they respect what I do.
If there is a time where we don't agree, we
talk about that and we process it. Sometimes we have
to agree to disagree, but I would say that the
(22:15):
majority of the time we're on the same page. In
many ways. Even if we're not on the same page,
we are a team and we know that the goal
is to help this person or to help this situation
or whatever the case may be, help this person in crisis.
And so we're going to utilize all our resources, all
(22:35):
of our expertise. We're gonna put our heads together and
do what is best for that client or for that
person that's in the community. That's how we work and
that's how we operate, knowing like I'm gonna stay in
my lane and you stay in your lane because I
know I can't do your job, so I'm going to
stay in my lane and I'm gonna assist in any
(22:58):
way that I can. And it works very well. I
think it takes maturity too, and knowing what your realm
of confidence is, what your realm of expertise is on
both sides, and staying there.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
So I wonder if you can think, Renee, is there
like one experience that feels very memorable to you where
you're like, Okay, my expertise was really needed here and
you really feel like you're a mental health background shifted
the outcome.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, there's a couple instances. I remember when I had
a young individual who was felling suicidal and they had
thought about actually wanting to go to a lake right
and just drive their car into the lake and so
understanding and knowing that, Okay, this is really serious, but
(23:50):
what does this person need right now? There are times
where it's like, Okay, who is building the most rapport.
Who's this person gravitating to. Sometimes, to be honest, it's
not always me. Sometimes the person prefers to talk to
the officer or vice versa. So making sure your ego
is out of the way, right and knowing that, hey,
(24:12):
however we can get this person help, that's what we're
going to do. And I remember talking to the person
and processing a bit with them and assessing them and
what we both realize and what the person came to
them was like, I really just need to talk to somebody.
I haven't been talking to anybody. Everything has been bubbled up,
and I've been repressing a lot of things, you know,
(24:34):
I've been keeping all these things in. He's like, that's
what I really really need. And the officers just let
me process and talk to that person, and I was
able to get the person linked to the right resources
that they needed, and I believe that person actually went
to the hospital voluntarily too. At that time. Well, when
(24:55):
I called up the individual to do a follow up,
remember them saying to me, you really saved my life,
and I'm so grateful for you taking the time to
come out and talk with me. Another example that comes
to mind is had another individual their sibling was actually
(25:16):
trying to harm themselves in the moment. I know a
lot of people will cut themselves, and their sibling was
having their crisis because they were seeing that and they
didn't know what to do, and they were very agitated
and just causing the situation to become worse. And so,
of course the officers can handle that person, right, but
(25:39):
I instinctively knew that this person needed to be de
escalated in a therapeutic way, and so I actually told
the officers, Hey, I'm going to talk to him. Let
me pull him to the side while you all continue
to work with that other person. Because the person did
not want to leave the hose, and they wouldn't come
(26:01):
out their room either, but we could actually see them
in their room because the window was open, and so
I was able to de escalate that person significantly. He
wasn't all the way de escalated, but significantly to the
point where we were able to get him away from
the actual person who needed to help his sibling and
(26:23):
so that was something that was memorable because I think
that caused the whole encounter to be resolved in an amicable,
you know, way, where the person was able to come
out of the house and we were able to take
them to the hospital and all of that. And so
I think sometimes instinctively, it's like, Okay, I know that
(26:46):
I can use my skill set here to deal with
this person because this person is actually agitating the scene,
and so let me talk to him, let me pull
him away, instead of allowing the officers to deal with
him and work on him while they work on the
person that is actually in crisis, even though that person
(27:06):
moves in somewhat of a crisis too. And so that
was something that was memorable because I think that caused
the whole encounter to be resolved in an amicable way,
where the person was able to come out of the
house and we were able to take them to the
hospital and all of that. And so I think sometimes instinctively,
(27:28):
it's like, Okay, I know that I can use my
skill set here to deal with this person because this
person is actually agitating the scene, and so let me
talk to him, let me pull him away, instead of
allowing the officers to deal with him. Let me work
on him while they work on the person that is
actually in crisis, even though that person moves in somewhat
(27:51):
of a crisis too.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
But yeah, clear picture when you pink the things like that.
Thank you so much for she ain't in. So you know, Renee,
I know know about the importance of taking care of
ourselves as mental health professionals, and especially in this kind
of work. Right, So can you talk to me about,
like how you are tending to your own mental health,
especially like after maybe a very demanding day or a
(28:13):
very activating experience.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yes, oh that is such a good question, doctor Joy. Well,
one of the things I am doing is I monitor.
I'm constantly monitoring myself where I am. I'm checking in
with myself because I can tell and I'm like, ooh,
what's going on in this work? You see a lot? Right,
But I protect my eyes. I protect myself from certain
(28:37):
things if I can. Sometimes you can't, but in most
cases you can because I'm exposed to a lot. Another
thing I do is I love naps. I take a
good nap. I rest. I believe in taking rest. I
believe in going to get a massage. If that's what
(28:58):
you like to do. I will come home and light
my bath and body works stress and eucalyptus spearment candles.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
It's one of my favorites too.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And take a hot bath and just take in those aromas.
So I try to keep my senses alive, like my smell,
my sight. I'll go out in nature. I will also
go spend time with a friend and have dinner. I'm
a foodie, so I will go out and just talk
with someone a friend and we'll just enjoy a meal together.
(29:34):
But the other thing that's really important for me is
making sure that I'm a round people that fill my
tank right, that don't take away from me, that want
to pour back into me. Because by the end of
the week, it's a lot of time I'm on empty
or we're getting there right. And so I try to
(29:57):
do restorative things, and I try to be around people,
places and things that will refuel and refill me back up.
I like to travel that also is restorative for me too,
and just walking in nature and things like that. But
the refueling and making sure I'm around people who celebrate me,
(30:18):
not tolerate, but people who actually celebrate me and enjoy
my presence and vice versa, and make sure I'm around
safe spaces where I know that people are listening to
me and they're hearing my heart and they're actually seeing me.
You know. Oh, I forgot to add also therapy. I
(30:40):
get my own therapy, so as I believe a therapist
needs a therapist, and having someone to just be able
to just share whatever I want, just to talk about
anything that I'm going through that can create and provide
that safe space for me is important, and I look
forward to going a thing therapy and doing my own.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Work more from our conversation after the break, so, I
would imagine that there are probably some people enjoying our
conversation who are thinking like, oh, I didn't even know
(31:22):
that this was something I could get into. As a
mental health professional, what suggestions would you have for people
who are maybe interested in pursuing this kind of work.
I know your experience in psychiatric emergency rooms. It sounds
like really prepared you. But if people don't have that experience,
what accreditations or certificates would you suggest that they pursue?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
You know, if someone doesn't have that experience, I think
I would advise them to look into it. Or get it,
even if it's not at a psychiatric facility, but maybe
at a crisis stabilization unit. Spend some time doing that
and going into that type of work, because I think
with this work, doctor Joy, you either like it or
(32:01):
you don't. And I think a good way to test
that out is by trying to work in a crisis
stabilization unit or like a psych facility, because that will
tell you if you enjoy working in crisis. Because every
day you don't know what crisis is going to happen
or what's going to pop off, and so it's important
(32:22):
to know if you can withstand that type of environment.
I think. So that's one of the suggestions. There are
other trainings two as far as if a therapist wants
to get into the field, as well as trainings that
officers do alongside clinicians and so one of them is
(32:42):
called the Crisis Intervention Training. There's another training called IKAT,
which is Integrating Communications, Assessment and Tactics. It's a law
enforcement training that incorporates mental health and how do you
talk to people and things of that nature. Also think
psychological first aid suicide prevention training. I also think that
(33:07):
it's important to especially given society and just all that's
going on. I think it's important to educate yourself as
it pertains to even what law enforcement do and you
know how they are, So try to get into like
a citizen's academy, you know where you can actually go
(33:28):
in and spend I think a lot of them do.
Like a week or two weeks, you spend some time
actually learning what police officers do and learning about them
and just the way they work and being exposed to them.
Also doing a ride along. Many people don't realize that
they can go to their local police precinct and ask
(33:50):
to do a ride along with an officer and they
can ride with them for the day, and that's a
great way to see if this is something that they
would want to do or would want to pursue. I
think it's also important to get as much training as
you can as it pertains to being trauma informed, because
a lot of this were going on these calls, and
(34:12):
there's just layers of trauma their family dynamics, Like people
have a story and so when you look at people
home mystically, you realize there's just so many layers to
this and you can unpack it in the one scene
because you're basically trying to make sure that the person
gets either stabilized or get some sort of treatment. So
I would say, yeah, to make sure that you're getting
(34:34):
culturally responsive training and trauma informed training, because also you're
going to be dealing with a diverse community. You're going
to run into people from all walks of life, various
socioeconomic backgrounds, different cultures, and things of that nature. So
I think it's really important to make sure that you're
(34:54):
culturally informed as well as responsive and trauma informed. Another
thing is a lot of people have already been doing
some of this, like the mobile crisis teams that's similar,
but they don't have an officer. Oftentimes they actually call
officers to come to accompany them on a call. So
(35:15):
those are some forms of it. So even trying that
out too could be something that could open the door
to see if this is the type of work. But
it's very rewarding. I really enjoy it. It's rewarding. It
has its pros and cons. You know, being exposed, but
there's ways that you protect yourself, such as I've already described,
(35:36):
like emotionally and things of that nature. The good self
care is we just discuss, and I also want to
reiterate or share that as it pertains to safety, I
feel that we live in a world that is you know,
there's dangers all around us. Something can happen to anyone
on a given day. So I really feel that you
(35:57):
need to be called to this field or to this work, Like,
if this is your passion and this is what you
want to do, then the benefits outweigh the risks. And
then of course with all of the other things that
I've already shared about how the officers go about keeping
clinicians safe and the protocols and procedures that are in
(36:18):
place for those things. And at the end of the day,
if you're doing the work that you love and your
call to it, I think that it's something that you
take steps to do. It's something that you count the cost.
Of course, you don't go into this being naive, but
I think that there are definitely great procedures and safety
(36:40):
protocols that are in place to ensure safety. And I
think at the end of the day, if you're doing
the work that you love, that's what's important in ensuring
that this is something that you actually want to do.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
So you mentioned earlier in AE that the officers have
additional mental health tre Do you know very much about
that curriculum, Like what kinds of things are there learning?
It sounds like some de escalation things. What are there
other things that you're aware of that the officers are learning.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Oh yeah, there's different trainings that are provided and a
lot of officers, I believe, across the state. It just depends.
Some do like it's called like CIIT and then they
also have another training where they are trained to work
with people who maybe have a weapon but not a firearm,
(37:30):
so they're learning how to de escalate, how to use communication,
how to use assessment and tactics to assist a person
who is in crisis. I believe that officers are also
exposed to whatever trainings that the department will allow. So
I know for my unit, they're very open for us
(37:52):
giving them trainings on various things. So if there's a
topic that they want to learn more about, we are
more than welcome to train them in that particular topic
or sometimes we'll bring it people in to train on
certain aspects of things that we may want to know
more about. But they're very much open to and receive
(38:15):
various aspects of mental health training to make sure that
our team is on the cutting edge and understanding and
are well informed around various not only de escalation skills,
but various aspects and topics of mental health.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Thank you for sharing that. You know you've already kind
of talked about this, but in terms of like mental
health being a factor really in most fields, and especially
as we're moving into, you know, a new century, what
do you feel like being in this role has really
taught you about the importance of mental health professionals being
involved in like the reduction of crime and as a
part of law enforcement units.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yes, that's an excellent, excellent question. I think that it
has made a huge impact. Just in the time that
I've been doing it. I feel like there has been
such an impact on the work that we do, and
I know a lot of people like numbers. I know
last year our unit saw a ninety eight percent rate
(39:13):
of diversion. The people that we've touched or dealt with,
and I mean touch literally, but the people that we
it came across or had encounters with had a ninety
eight percent diversion rate. So that speaks in and of
itself that this actually work and can work if it's
done and implement it appropriately. And so I think that
(39:34):
it's a wonderful collaboration in terms of just bringing down
those numbers of people being jailed versus getting the resources
that they need. Because you have an expert right there
on scene, I can say like, no, this person, they
need mental health support or they need stabilization. Unfortunately it's
(39:56):
not as often, but sometimes people do need to be arrest, right,
but you want to give them that opportunity in space
to get that treatment first that they need. I know,
there's even programs like Mental Health Court where if someone
has a felony, they can actually get enrolled in mental
(40:17):
health court where it's accountability court, so they have to
you know, go through the programs, get treatment and all
of that, and upon finishing the program, they can get
their charges either expunged or downgraded in things of that nature.
And so that is to me live results or stats
(40:39):
saying that hey, this is actually helping, this is actually working,
And I think more states need to embrace this model
because it actually helps. And I think that it's rebuilding
and it's restoring those relationships between law enforcement and the community,
(41:00):
which is something that I feel like is needed. And
it's a positive right. It's a positive way to do
and to demonstrate, like, hey, law enforcement in the community
can actually work together, and they can work together very well.
But people have to be bought into it, and I
think a lot of times people are bought in when
(41:21):
they see that there's results that are connected to it.
I've seen the impact that we may just on a
day to day basis just in the way that we
deal with people. I know people even sometimes call for us,
like I know that there's a unit there that works
with behavioral health. So that's good when you have that,
(41:42):
because they're recognizing that that's the resource that they can
tap into and that we can actually come out and
either them themselves or maybe a family member that is
in distress or that's just needing some resources and things
of that nature. So it's definitely a factor, and I
think that again, mental health and law enforcement is the
(42:03):
way of the future.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
This has been so incredible, Renee, I really appreciated learning
so much about this and what you do. Thank you
so much for sharing with us. If you would please
let us know where we can stay connected with you.
What is your website as well as any social media handles?
You'd like to share.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yes, thank you so much for asking that. I love
connecting with people. You can't find me at my website,
which is Renee Brian withthey dot com and they can
also email me at info at Renee Glin dot com.
And then my social media handles are all closer to
Eden and that's on ig, Twitter and Facebook.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Perfect We will be sure to include all of that
in the show notes. Thank you again, Renee.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
You are so awesome, Doctor George, thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I'm so glad Renee was able to join us for
this conversation. To learn more about her and her work,
be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for
Black Girls SLASH Session for twenty two and don't forget
to text this episode to two of your girls right
now so that they can check it out. Did you
know you could leave us a voicemail with your questions
for the podcast. If you have books or movies you'd
(43:13):
like for us to review, our thoughts about topics you'd
like us to discuss. Drop us a message at Memo
dot fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and let us
know what's on your mind. We just might feature it
on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist Deer Area.
Visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com
slash directory. This episode was produced by Elise ellis In
(43:35):
Daytubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennis and Bradford.
Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week.
I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all
real soon.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Take good care, what
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy Hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Okay, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session four twenty two of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation after a word from our sponsors. This week's guest
is Renee Brian, a licensed professional counselor and educator with
(01:19):
a master's in Education from Mercer University and a master's
in Clinical Mental health Counseling from Richmont Graduate University. What
makes Renee's work particularly compelling is her role as a
mental health co responder with law enforcement. This growing field
many mental health professionals may not even know exist. In
today's conversation, we explore what it's like to ride alongside
(01:40):
police officers daily responding to mental health crises in real time.
RENEE takes us inside the day to day realities of
coresponse work, from gas station interventions to family crises, sharing
the de escalation strategies that work in the field and
the safety protocols that protect both clinicians and community members.
We discussed the challenges of navigating different professional languages between
(02:03):
mental health and law enforcement, the current state of community
mental health resources, and how this collaborative model is achieving
a ninety eight percent diversion rate from incarceration to treatment.
For any mental health professionals curious about crisis work or
wondering how to get involved in corresponse programs, this conversation
offers practical insights into training requirements, the emotional toll of
(02:26):
the work, and why RENEE believes this collaboration represents a
crucial evolution in both mental health care and community policing.
If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please
share it with us on social media using the hashtag
TVG in Session, or join us over in our patreon
to talk more about the episode, You can join us
(02:47):
at Community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation.
Thank you so much for joining us today, Renee.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Thank you for having me, doctor Joy. I'm so excited
to sit with you and to just chat to highlight
this important conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, so I was very excited. So at first you
were a tend at our inaugural therapist. I'm in and
we got to chat in right, and you talk to
me a little bit about the work that you were
doing working with law enforcement and being a first responder,
and so I really really wanted to have some conversation
about that because that's something I've been thinking about, like
what does it look like for more mental health professionals
(03:27):
to work with law enforcement. So if you could tell
me a little bit, Renee, about your background and how
you got started doing some of this work.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So, I have a background in the field of education.
I've always been very passionate about working with underserved communities
as well as diverse populations. I think also opening my
own practice as well as working in a psychiatric hospital
that gave me a lot of exposure and it also
(03:56):
allowed me to see that I have a now for
collaboration as well as finding solutions in the mental health field.
I also believe that through my work both in my
own business as well as at the psychiatric facility or hospital,
(04:17):
I have always been able to build and maintain strong
working relationships with various stakeholders, and I think this, coupled
with my love of justice, actually made it a natural
next phase for my career.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
So I'm sure there is no typical day, but can
you walk us through what some days look like for
you in your role?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
You're absolutely right, no day is the same. I come
in and I actually work on a team where there
are six officers and six clinicians who are all trained.
Of course, the clinicians are trained in mental health, but
the officers also go through a series of training to
become a behavioral health officer. Now there's still police officers,
(05:02):
but they're just on a behavioral health unit. And so
I'm paired with the officer who's my partner. I go
out with him every day that we're scheduled, and we
respond to calls and so for example, as you know
of police work, they get dispatched to calls and so
a dispatcher will say, hey, you'll hear it on the radio.
(05:25):
There's a person in crisis, and they'll give all the
details of what's going on with that person, and we'll
respond to that call if we're requested too, and if
it's something that we need that we are required to do,
because a lot of times the police officers do get
a lot of train the regular police officers that are
(05:45):
not a part of our unit, they are also trained
in de escalation tactics and strategies, and so sometimes we're
not going to respond to that call because they're able
to handle it themselves, and we'll follow up or something
of that nature. But a typical day could be meeting
someone at a gas station who's in crisis, someone who's
(06:08):
in their home or out in the community somewhere that
is in crisis. It looks different daily, and it just
depends on what's happening. Whether that person is suicidal, sometimes
they could be homicidal, or also going through like a
psychotic psychosis, psychotic break, and so we're responding to that person.
(06:30):
They may need to be voluntarily committed or they just
may need resources. It just depends on what is going on.
So I will go out there and assess them to
see if they just need resources or if they need
to be taken to a hospital for stabilization.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Got it, So, Renne, and tell me, so, are you
just at the police station on the days that you're
assigned waiting for calls like the other officers are, So
you're there on location when the calls come through.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yes, it's a common nation. So I'm either at the
precinct or we're actually out in the field already. Maybe
we're doing a follow up with solon who we had
to encounter with. Maybe we're, you know, doing something in
the community, talking to people or at a community event.
It just depends on what is needed for that day.
(07:21):
But a lot of times we're already out in the field,
and sometimes we'll assist other officers with other type of
calls that are maybe mental health related or something that
the officer can handle, because in general they're still officers,
but our main job is to deal with the mental
health aspect or component of calls.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Got it. So you mentioned that sometimes you're called and
then other times you're not because the officers have received
some of the mental health and behavior health training. So
what's the determining factor about whether you will get called
versus the officer will just handle it well?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Depending on the level of crisis. Some people just need resources,
they just want someone to talk to, and so if
that's the case, a lot of the times they'll just
offer our resource and we'll connect with them at a
later time. But the majority of the time, if it's
someone who is in crisis actively, we're going to be
dispatched to that call. Of course, if someone's suicidal and
(08:21):
if someone is having like a psychotic break, we will
definitely be called because seven times out of ten, that
person's going to probably need to go to the emergency
room to get emergent care un stabilization. So it just
depends on what is actually going on in that moment.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And is this a state initiative, is this something like
a local county initiative? Like who is the organizing body
who you work for?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
There was a Senate bill I don't know if you
heard of. It's called Senate Bill four O three and
it's the Georgia Behavioral Health, Peace Officer and co Responder Act,
And basically that kind of shapes the work that we're doing.
Corresponding has been something that has been going on for
some time, but it's more so prevalent now and a
(09:10):
lot of states are trying to get those programs going
or running. One of the things that is, I believe
stated in that act is that they prefer or they
would like for law enforcement to collaborate with a community
service board that's already in the community, that has their
hands already dealing with a number of patients or a
(09:35):
number of people in the community. They combine or collaborate
with law enforcement in that way. So there's various programs
all throughout the state of Georgia in general. There's different models.
For example, our model is I actually go out and
ride with the officer daily, where some other places the
(09:56):
clinician actually maybe will go to the site or detel
health and things of that nature. So there's different ways
to do it, and I think it depends on the
needs of that particular community and how that law enforcement
community is organized, and so it just depends how many
clinicians they need and all of that. So there's various
(10:17):
factors that go into it. But that's basically more so
how it works, if you.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Will, and what additional training did you need a complete
to be able to effectively work in this kind of
a position.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Well, I actually believe that working out a psychiatric hospital
really prepared me in a major way for this again
because I was able to see all of the different
acute mental illness. But when I began doing this work,
I actually shadowed another clinician who was already in the field,
(10:53):
already doing it, and shadowed those teams. So there were
already teams in the field that we're doing it, so
you just basically shadow them. And I've also continually getting training.
It's ongoing because it's more so newer in the past
few years, especially like within the State of Georgia. It's
more so being embraced and utilized my unit and within
(11:18):
our department. We're continually getting training and making sure that
we're staying fresh as it pertains to that like de
escalation and all of those things.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So speaking of de escalation, can you talk to us
about some strategies that you might typically use when you're
out in the field.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Oh, yes, for sure. I think about how sometimes you
know when people are on ten, and I'm sure you've
witnessed that before too. Someone is on ten, and I
try to model being a stable presence. You know someone
is on ten, I'm on one, you know, or maybe two,
because I know that matching them is not going to
(11:57):
help the situation. So that is one of the ways,
and you'll be surprised how that kind of calms people down.
Allowing them to share what's bothering them, must triggering them,
just letting them as I like to call it, vomited
out if you will, just sharing whatever they're dealing with.
I think it's also important to actively listen to them,
(12:21):
right Empathy, the things that we do as therapists. You
just utilize those things out in the field as well.
My body language is really important because people know you care,
right They can sense if you really are there to
help them, or you know, if you really care about
them and want to hear what they're actually experiencing in
(12:44):
that moment. I'll use deep breathing exercises sometimes, you know,
if the situation constitutes that, right, you know, just take
some deep breaths before you continue sharing or what have you.
Sometimes I'll say, come on, let's walkalk a little bit,
you know, let's walk away from maybe the trigger could
be someone in their house. Let's step away from the
(13:07):
door or what have you for a little while, take
a step outside. So those are just some of the
things that come to mind. Actively listening empathy, not being
on a ten when they're on a ten.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, So when you are on a call, Renee, let's
say you show up, you mentioned the gas station, right like,
So let's say you show up to the gas station
there's somebody there who's in distress. Are you kind of
getting out of the car first and making contact with
the person or is the officer kind of starting the
conversation and then inviting you in.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Oh no, no, I don't step out first. In fact,
we have protocols and procedures as far as safety is concerned.
The officers who are not on our unit, they respond
to the call first and make sure they're safety, that
the person doesn't have any weapons, that it's safe for
me and my partner to come. Then I have that
(14:01):
additional layer of my partner being there because he's an officer.
If he feels something is not safe, he'll tell me
to stay in the vehicle or will be down the
street from where the crisis is happening, and he'll leave
me there until he feels that it's safe enough for
me to come and talk to the person. So there's
(14:22):
those additional layers make sure that there's safety there.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
So more from our conversation after the break. You know
something you said earlier when they made me think about
I mean, I know you are also aware of just
the state of community mental health right now, right, and
(14:48):
so I would imagine that your job is tougher because
where are the resources that the people can get connected
to after you do this like on site assessment. Right,
So you mentioned the emergency rooms, so you talk about
like just the state of community mental health and like
what other resources would be great to kind of help
the supplement the work that you're already doing.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Oh, doctor Joy, that is a thing, especially here in Georgia.
I know that some states have a plethora of resources.
So one of the things that I think is important
as this work is important in terms of building those relationships, right,
not only was law enforcement, but with the community. So
making sure that we build relationships with hospitals so they
(15:32):
know we have a procede journal process of us actually
being able to bring a person there. They know us
they have that relationship. But then we also are linked
with a community service board too, so that linkage also
we can connect them directly to that resource. And then
also understanding that some people just need to talk to
(15:55):
someone some people just need therapy. So I will use
therapy black girls to refer people. I also use psychology today.
I'll refer people to those types of platforms if I
feel like they're stable enough. Right. And then when you
talk about resources, honestly, I know we don't have the
(16:15):
state hospitals like we used to. I really believe that
that's needed, but I feel like it needs to be
created to a point where people can get integrative and
holistic care. Right. It needs to be a place where
they can also live and they can maybe even work,
and even get in touch with the land around them,
(16:38):
because I know that that can be very therapeutic for
people just having a garden or things of that nature.
And so here in Georgia, I think there is a
need for more resources for sure, and I know that
there are some things probably coming down the pipes as
far as that is concerning. I work with what I
(16:58):
have right link people with resource because that's actually one
of the goals is to get the person either stabilized,
link them with the resources that are offered that we
have access to so that they can be healthier in
the mind, body, and soul. And so I think that
those are some of the things that we can do,
(17:21):
and I do see an impact now we know that.
Of course, some people will cycle, right, a lot of
people I'll see, you know in the community, but at
the same time, or build a relationship with them because
they know us, they see us, they know that we're
here to help them, maybe if they've seen us before
on a different call. And so it's about banding together,
(17:44):
utilizing the other people, the other partners in the community
to assist with getting people the services that they need
and plugging them into them.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
You mentioned follow ups a couple of times, right that
maybe you know another officer will hind maybe you'll follow
up later with resources. What does the follow up look like.
Is it like a one time follow up to say, like, hey,
just checking in, were you able to use the resources
that I shed or is it kind of continuous follow up.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
It's a combination of both. And sometimes I'll do an
in person follow up and people really like that because
again it's building that relationship and that trust. And sometimes
it'll just be a phone call and people are very
appreciative of that because again they're realizing, like, oh, law
enforcement and the clinicians really care about us, you know,
(18:33):
and they care about our community, and so it can
look like just giving a personal call. Hey, we were
out there the other day. How are you doing today?
Did you take advantage of the resources that I sent?
Was there a roadblock in those resources? Is there someone
I need to call to ensure that you can get
into that program that I referred you to. It looks
(18:55):
like that, It looks like advocacy, and it looks like
continued compact and care for the person. And I call
them and sometimes they'll call me back later on. So
it's more about building those relationships because you never know
when you may wind into that person again, because they
may have another crisis, or they may just reach out
(19:18):
because they need to get re enrolled in services. Since
we have that collaborative relationship right between law enforcement and
a community service board, then you're able to do that
and to offer that and link them as best you can.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
So mm hmm. And on your unit, So they're the
police officers, they're you and the other clinicians. Are there
other case and managers or other people who could help
with like this connecting to resources or is that kind
of the clinicians job to continue to stay helping and
connecting them to resources.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Well, it's the clinicians. It's a part of our work.
But at the same time, that's why the follow up
is so important to empower them to govern them themselves accordingly,
if you will, or to take advantage of the resources
that we're offering. What we also do with the Community
Service Board is that we can maybe email that person
(20:13):
that's in charge of maybe that program, Hey, this person
will be great for your program, for this program, can
we reach out to them and encourage them. So it's
like that wrap around services type of feel reaching out
to the person, reminding them, and if they're not, then
reaching out to the person who's in charge of the
(20:34):
program or is working with the program, those case managers
right at the Community Service Board or the mental health clinic,
if you will, and asking them, hey, this person will
be great for this program. Would you mind reaching out
to them? Because a lot of times the people in
the community, they've already maybe had experiences with the clinic,
(20:54):
but maybe they fell off, you know, maybe they're just
not taking care of themselves, or they've stopped taking their
medication or whatever the case may be, and so it's
always about encouraging them to take care of themselves.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
So I would imagine that the training we have as
mental health professionals is different than the training law enforcement
officers have, right, And so I can imagine there may
be some challenges in terms of like communicating which you
think a client's needs or versus maybe with the law
enforcement officer things should be happening. Can you talk about
any challenges and how you navigate kind of speaking that
(21:29):
different language.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, that's a good question. I think that I'm very
diplomatic in my dealings, and I think it boils down
to respect, right understanding, Like I respect when you do.
Because one of the things that I have realized doing
this work is officers are humans, right, So I've learned
(21:52):
to really humanize them. So I respect what they do
because that legal stuff and all that. I'm like, that's
your area of expertise, and they respect what I do.
If there is a time where we don't agree, we
talk about that and we process it. Sometimes we have
to agree to disagree, but I would say that the
(22:15):
majority of the time we're on the same page. In
many ways. Even if we're not on the same page,
we are a team and we know that the goal
is to help this person or to help this situation
or whatever the case may be, help this person in crisis.
And so we're going to utilize all our resources, all
(22:35):
of our expertise. We're gonna put our heads together and
do what is best for that client or for that
person that's in the community. That's how we work and
that's how we operate, knowing like I'm gonna stay in
my lane and you stay in your lane because I
know I can't do your job, so I'm going to
stay in my lane and I'm gonna assist in any
(22:58):
way that I can. And it works very well. I
think it takes maturity too, and knowing what your realm
of confidence is, what your realm of expertise is on
both sides, and staying there.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
So I wonder if you can think, Renee, is there
like one experience that feels very memorable to you where
you're like, Okay, my expertise was really needed here and
you really feel like you're a mental health background shifted
the outcome.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, there's a couple instances. I remember when I had
a young individual who was felling suicidal and they had
thought about actually wanting to go to a lake right
and just drive their car into the lake and so
understanding and knowing that, Okay, this is really serious, but
(23:50):
what does this person need right now? There are times
where it's like, Okay, who is building the most rapport.
Who's this person gravitating to. Sometimes, to be honest, it's
not always me. Sometimes the person prefers to talk to
the officer or vice versa. So making sure your ego
is out of the way, right and knowing that, hey,
(24:12):
however we can get this person help, that's what we're
going to do. And I remember talking to the person
and processing a bit with them and assessing them and
what we both realize and what the person came to
them was like, I really just need to talk to somebody.
I haven't been talking to anybody. Everything has been bubbled up,
and I've been repressing a lot of things, you know,
(24:34):
I've been keeping all these things in. He's like, that's
what I really really need. And the officers just let
me process and talk to that person, and I was
able to get the person linked to the right resources
that they needed, and I believe that person actually went
to the hospital voluntarily too. At that time. Well, when
(24:55):
I called up the individual to do a follow up,
remember them saying to me, you really saved my life,
and I'm so grateful for you taking the time to
come out and talk with me. Another example that comes
to mind is had another individual their sibling was actually
(25:16):
trying to harm themselves in the moment. I know a
lot of people will cut themselves, and their sibling was
having their crisis because they were seeing that and they
didn't know what to do, and they were very agitated
and just causing the situation to become worse. And so,
of course the officers can handle that person, right, but
(25:39):
I instinctively knew that this person needed to be de
escalated in a therapeutic way, and so I actually told
the officers, Hey, I'm going to talk to him. Let
me pull him to the side while you all continue
to work with that other person. Because the person did
not want to leave the hose, and they wouldn't come
(26:01):
out their room either, but we could actually see them
in their room because the window was open, and so
I was able to de escalate that person significantly. He
wasn't all the way de escalated, but significantly to the
point where we were able to get him away from
the actual person who needed to help his sibling and
(26:23):
so that was something that was memorable because I think
that caused the whole encounter to be resolved in an amicable,
you know, way, where the person was able to come
out of the house and we were able to take
them to the hospital and all of that. And so
I think sometimes instinctively, it's like, Okay, I know that
(26:46):
I can use my skill set here to deal with
this person because this person is actually agitating the scene,
and so let me talk to him, let me pull
him away, instead of allowing the officers to deal with
him and work on him while they work on the
person that is actually in crisis, even though that person
(27:06):
moves in somewhat of a crisis too. And so that
was something that was memorable because I think that caused
the whole encounter to be resolved in an amicable way,
where the person was able to come out of the
house and we were able to take them to the
hospital and all of that. And so I think sometimes instinctively,
(27:28):
it's like, Okay, I know that I can use my
skill set here to deal with this person because this
person is actually agitating the scene, and so let me
talk to him, let me pull him away, instead of
allowing the officers to deal with him. Let me work
on him while they work on the person that is
actually in crisis, even though that person moves in somewhat
(27:51):
of a crisis too.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
But yeah, clear picture when you pink the things like that.
Thank you so much for she ain't in. So you know, Renee,
I know know about the importance of taking care of
ourselves as mental health professionals, and especially in this kind
of work. Right, So can you talk to me about,
like how you are tending to your own mental health,
especially like after maybe a very demanding day or a
(28:13):
very activating experience.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yes, oh that is such a good question, doctor Joy. Well,
one of the things I am doing is I monitor.
I'm constantly monitoring myself where I am. I'm checking in
with myself because I can tell and I'm like, ooh,
what's going on in this work? You see a lot? Right,
But I protect my eyes. I protect myself from certain
(28:37):
things if I can. Sometimes you can't, but in most
cases you can because I'm exposed to a lot. Another
thing I do is I love naps. I take a
good nap. I rest. I believe in taking rest. I
believe in going to get a massage. If that's what
(28:58):
you like to do. I will come home and light
my bath and body works stress and eucalyptus spearment candles.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
It's one of my favorites too.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And take a hot bath and just take in those aromas.
So I try to keep my senses alive, like my smell,
my sight. I'll go out in nature. I will also
go spend time with a friend and have dinner. I'm
a foodie, so I will go out and just talk
with someone a friend and we'll just enjoy a meal together.
(29:34):
But the other thing that's really important for me is
making sure that I'm a round people that fill my
tank right, that don't take away from me, that want
to pour back into me. Because by the end of
the week, it's a lot of time I'm on empty
or we're getting there right. And so I try to
(29:57):
do restorative things, and I try to be around people,
places and things that will refuel and refill me back up.
I like to travel that also is restorative for me too,
and just walking in nature and things like that. But
the refueling and making sure I'm around people who celebrate me,
(30:18):
not tolerate, but people who actually celebrate me and enjoy
my presence and vice versa, and make sure I'm around
safe spaces where I know that people are listening to
me and they're hearing my heart and they're actually seeing me.
You know. Oh, I forgot to add also therapy. I
(30:40):
get my own therapy, so as I believe a therapist
needs a therapist, and having someone to just be able
to just share whatever I want, just to talk about
anything that I'm going through that can create and provide
that safe space for me is important, and I look
forward to going a thing therapy and doing my own.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Work more from our conversation after the break, so, I
would imagine that there are probably some people enjoying our
conversation who are thinking like, oh, I didn't even know
(31:22):
that this was something I could get into. As a
mental health professional, what suggestions would you have for people
who are maybe interested in pursuing this kind of work.
I know your experience in psychiatric emergency rooms. It sounds
like really prepared you. But if people don't have that experience,
what accreditations or certificates would you suggest that they pursue?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
You know, if someone doesn't have that experience, I think
I would advise them to look into it. Or get it,
even if it's not at a psychiatric facility, but maybe
at a crisis stabilization unit. Spend some time doing that
and going into that type of work, because I think
with this work, doctor Joy, you either like it or
(32:01):
you don't. And I think a good way to test
that out is by trying to work in a crisis
stabilization unit or like a psych facility, because that will
tell you if you enjoy working in crisis. Because every
day you don't know what crisis is going to happen
or what's going to pop off, and so it's important
(32:22):
to know if you can withstand that type of environment.
I think. So that's one of the suggestions. There are
other trainings two as far as if a therapist wants
to get into the field, as well as trainings that
officers do alongside clinicians and so one of them is
(32:42):
called the Crisis Intervention Training. There's another training called IKAT,
which is Integrating Communications, Assessment and Tactics. It's a law
enforcement training that incorporates mental health and how do you
talk to people and things of that nature. Also think
psychological first aid suicide prevention training. I also think that
(33:07):
it's important to especially given society and just all that's
going on. I think it's important to educate yourself as
it pertains to even what law enforcement do and you
know how they are, So try to get into like
a citizen's academy, you know where you can actually go
(33:28):
in and spend I think a lot of them do.
Like a week or two weeks, you spend some time
actually learning what police officers do and learning about them
and just the way they work and being exposed to them.
Also doing a ride along. Many people don't realize that
they can go to their local police precinct and ask
(33:50):
to do a ride along with an officer and they
can ride with them for the day, and that's a
great way to see if this is something that they
would want to do or would want to pursue. I
think it's also important to get as much training as
you can as it pertains to being trauma informed, because
a lot of this were going on these calls, and
(34:12):
there's just layers of trauma their family dynamics, Like people
have a story and so when you look at people
home mystically, you realize there's just so many layers to
this and you can unpack it in the one scene
because you're basically trying to make sure that the person
gets either stabilized or get some sort of treatment. So
I would say, yeah, to make sure that you're getting
(34:34):
culturally responsive training and trauma informed training, because also you're
going to be dealing with a diverse community. You're going
to run into people from all walks of life, various
socioeconomic backgrounds, different cultures, and things of that nature. So
I think it's really important to make sure that you're
(34:54):
culturally informed as well as responsive and trauma informed. Another
thing is a lot of people have already been doing
some of this, like the mobile crisis teams that's similar,
but they don't have an officer. Oftentimes they actually call
officers to come to accompany them on a call. So
(35:15):
those are some forms of it. So even trying that
out too could be something that could open the door
to see if this is the type of work. But
it's very rewarding. I really enjoy it. It's rewarding. It
has its pros and cons. You know, being exposed, but
there's ways that you protect yourself, such as I've already described,
(35:36):
like emotionally and things of that nature. The good self
care is we just discuss, and I also want to
reiterate or share that as it pertains to safety, I
feel that we live in a world that is you know,
there's dangers all around us. Something can happen to anyone
on a given day. So I really feel that you
(35:57):
need to be called to this field or to this work, Like,
if this is your passion and this is what you
want to do, then the benefits outweigh the risks. And
then of course with all of the other things that
I've already shared about how the officers go about keeping
clinicians safe and the protocols and procedures that are in
(36:18):
place for those things. And at the end of the day,
if you're doing the work that you love and your
call to it, I think that it's something that you
take steps to do. It's something that you count the cost.
Of course, you don't go into this being naive, but
I think that there are definitely great procedures and safety
(36:40):
protocols that are in place to ensure safety. And I
think at the end of the day, if you're doing
the work that you love, that's what's important in ensuring
that this is something that you actually want to do.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
So you mentioned earlier in AE that the officers have
additional mental health tre Do you know very much about
that curriculum, Like what kinds of things are there learning?
It sounds like some de escalation things. What are there
other things that you're aware of that the officers are learning.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Oh yeah, there's different trainings that are provided and a
lot of officers, I believe, across the state. It just depends.
Some do like it's called like CIIT and then they
also have another training where they are trained to work
with people who maybe have a weapon but not a firearm,
(37:30):
so they're learning how to de escalate, how to use communication,
how to use assessment and tactics to assist a person
who is in crisis. I believe that officers are also
exposed to whatever trainings that the department will allow. So
I know for my unit, they're very open for us
(37:52):
giving them trainings on various things. So if there's a
topic that they want to learn more about, we are
more than welcome to train them in that particular topic
or sometimes we'll bring it people in to train on
certain aspects of things that we may want to know
more about. But they're very much open to and receive
(38:15):
various aspects of mental health training to make sure that
our team is on the cutting edge and understanding and
are well informed around various not only de escalation skills,
but various aspects and topics of mental health.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Thank you for sharing that. You know you've already kind
of talked about this, but in terms of like mental
health being a factor really in most fields, and especially
as we're moving into, you know, a new century, what
do you feel like being in this role has really
taught you about the importance of mental health professionals being
involved in like the reduction of crime and as a
part of law enforcement units.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yes, that's an excellent, excellent question. I think that it
has made a huge impact. Just in the time that
I've been doing it. I feel like there has been
such an impact on the work that we do, and
I know a lot of people like numbers. I know
last year our unit saw a ninety eight percent rate
(39:13):
of diversion. The people that we've touched or dealt with,
and I mean touch literally, but the people that we
it came across or had encounters with had a ninety
eight percent diversion rate. So that speaks in and of
itself that this actually work and can work if it's
done and implement it appropriately. And so I think that
(39:34):
it's a wonderful collaboration in terms of just bringing down
those numbers of people being jailed versus getting the resources
that they need. Because you have an expert right there
on scene, I can say like, no, this person, they
need mental health support or they need stabilization. Unfortunately it's
(39:56):
not as often, but sometimes people do need to be arrest, right,
but you want to give them that opportunity in space
to get that treatment first that they need. I know,
there's even programs like Mental Health Court where if someone
has a felony, they can actually get enrolled in mental
(40:17):
health court where it's accountability court, so they have to
you know, go through the programs, get treatment and all
of that, and upon finishing the program, they can get
their charges either expunged or downgraded in things of that nature.
And so that is to me live results or stats
(40:39):
saying that hey, this is actually helping, this is actually working,
And I think more states need to embrace this model
because it actually helps. And I think that it's rebuilding
and it's restoring those relationships between law enforcement and the community,
(41:00):
which is something that I feel like is needed. And
it's a positive right. It's a positive way to do
and to demonstrate, like, hey, law enforcement in the community
can actually work together, and they can work together very well.
But people have to be bought into it, and I
think a lot of times people are bought in when
(41:21):
they see that there's results that are connected to it.
I've seen the impact that we may just on a
day to day basis just in the way that we
deal with people. I know people even sometimes call for us,
like I know that there's a unit there that works
with behavioral health. So that's good when you have that,
(41:42):
because they're recognizing that that's the resource that they can
tap into and that we can actually come out and
either them themselves or maybe a family member that is
in distress or that's just needing some resources and things
of that nature. So it's definitely a factor, and I
think that again, mental health and law enforcement is the
(42:03):
way of the future.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
This has been so incredible, Renee, I really appreciated learning
so much about this and what you do. Thank you
so much for sharing with us. If you would please
let us know where we can stay connected with you.
What is your website as well as any social media handles?
You'd like to share.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yes, thank you so much for asking that. I love
connecting with people. You can't find me at my website,
which is Renee Brian withthey dot com and they can
also email me at info at Renee Glin dot com.
And then my social media handles are all closer to
Eden and that's on ig, Twitter and Facebook.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Perfect We will be sure to include all of that
in the show notes. Thank you again, Renee.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
You are so awesome, Doctor George, thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I'm so glad Renee was able to join us for
this conversation. To learn more about her and her work,
be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for
Black Girls SLASH Session for twenty two and don't forget
to text this episode to two of your girls right
now so that they can check it out. Did you
know you could leave us a voicemail with your questions
for the podcast. If you have books or movies you'd
(43:13):
like for us to review, our thoughts about topics you'd
like us to discuss. Drop us a message at Memo
dot fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and let us
know what's on your mind. We just might feature it
on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist Deer Area.
Visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com
slash directory. This episode was produced by Elise ellis In
(43:35):
Daytubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennis and Bradford.
Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week.
I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all
real soon.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Take good care, what
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