September 3, 2025 • 33 mins
This week, we’re discussing a crisis that’s disrupting lives across the country: the escalating wave of deportations tearing families apart and dismantling the fragile sense of safety many immigrants cling to. For this conversation I’m joined by Catherine Labiran, a writer, organizer, and research manager whose work lives at the intersections of immigration justice, Black liberation, and mental health. Catherine has spent her career advocating for Black immigrants whose stories are too often erased from national conversations. During our conversation, Catherine and I discussed the emotional toll of migration, the resilience of African and Caribbean diasporic communities, and explored the ways art, community care, and protecting joy become lifelines in the face of racism and erasure.
About the Podcast
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
Resources & Announcements
Did you know you can leave us a voice note with your questions for the podcast? If you have a question you'd like some feedback on, topics you'd like to hear covered, or want to suggest movies or books for us to review, drop us a message at memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls and let us know what’s on your mind. We just might share it on the podcast.
Grab your copy of Sisterhood Heals.
Where to Find Our Guest
Stay Connected
Join us in over on Patreon where we're building community through our chats, connecting at Sunday Night Check-Ins, and soaking in the wisdom from exclusive series like Ask Dr. Joy and So, My Therapist Said.
Is there a topic you'd like covered on the podcast? Submit it at therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox.
If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out the directory at https://www.therapyforblackgirls.com/directory.
Grab your copy of our guided affirmation and other TBG Merch at therapyforblackgirls.com/shop.
The hashtag for the podcast is #TBGinSession.
Make sure to follow us on social media:
Twitter: @therapy4bgirls
Instagram: @therapyforblackgirls
Facebook: @therapyforblackgirls
Our Production Team
Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard
Director of Podcast & Digital Content: Ellice Ellis
Producers: Tyree Rush & Ndeye Thioubou
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session four Therapy for Black Girls Podcast.
We'll get right into our conversation afterword from our sponsors.
This week, we're discussing a crisis that's disrupting lives across
the country, the escalating wave of deportations, tearing families apart
(01:22):
and dismantling the fragile sense of safety many immigrants cling to. Today,
I'm joined by Catherine Laberon, a writer, organizer, and research
manager whose work lives at the intersections of immigration, justice,
black liberation, and mental health. Catherine has spent her career
advocating for black immigrants whose stories are too often erased
(01:43):
from national conversations. She first began making sense of injustice
through poetry, transforming personal experience into a practice of healing
and resistance. Today, her work centers around archiving black mirgareant
wisdom and building safe spaces for those navigating distant placement, identity,
and systemic injustice. Katherine and I discussed the emotional toll
(02:06):
of migration, the resilience of African and Caribbean diasporic communities,
and explore the ways art, community care, and protecting joy
become lifelines in the face of racism and erasure. If
something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share
with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session,
(02:28):
or join us over in our Patreon channel Let's talk
more about the episode. You can join us at community
dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation, Catherine,
thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, I'm excited to chat with you and would love
to start by hearing more about your backgrounds or you
have worked at the intersection of immigration, justice, and mental
health and liberation for quite some time. Now, so what
got you into this fuel and can you tell us
more about your work.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
So I'm Nigerian. I was born in New York, raised
in London, and as a young black girl growing up
in Northwest London, I was very aware of the mistreatment
of immigrants in the country. I just have this visceral
feeling around the disparities and the injustices that we were experiencing,
even before I had the language to describe it. So
(03:22):
in my childhood, poetry became the avenue for me to
make sense of some of the things that I was
feeling and witnessing in London. And the more I started
telling my own personal story, the more I felt that
poetry was this alchemizing force for me to be able
to heal and make sense of my suffering. And I
wanted to accompany other young black girls and doing the
(03:43):
same to access that liberation and healing that art't mix possible.
So my core within the work that I do in
service of black migrants is thinking about storytelling, thinking about
archiving our wisdom, our strategies, all of the things have
been passed on to us throughout generations so that we
(04:03):
can continue to fight for justice for all people. So
I always round in my background in terms of ancestry
and writing, and that has led me to work across advotacy,
research and policy spaces.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, and a lot of your work has been policy.
So what does a day to day look like for
you currently?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
It looks like so many different things because I work
at the intersection of so many different movements from racial justice,
gender justice, migrant justice. Everything is very intersectional. So I
don't think there's any typical day to day because the
sociopolitical climate that we are in is continuously shifting, like
(04:43):
continuous and new stresses that people are experiencing. But I
would say again, the core is thinking about how do
we research what's happening, How do we ensure that people
on the ground are informed and there are the actions that
they can take. How can we ensure that we're doing
this work in a way that truly sens people and
their needs, And how we also archiving the impact of
(05:05):
what that we're doing so that we do want duplicate
efforts from the future. And I now have the honor
of doing that with several different organizations as a consultant.
So really just tailoring my work to support the organization
and Efflective's needs.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Can you say more about what led you to developing
your consulting firm where you identifying gaps that organizations needed
help with wood led you there?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Sure? Yeah, again, I think what led me there is
this insistence that there is a deep interdependence between art
and activism and in order to do this work, whether
it's naming disparities that we are seeing or shining light
on injustice. For me, art is the mechanism that makes
(05:50):
all things possible, that allows people to be truly engaged
from the work that makes people remember details. So my
consulting work is being able to shed light on those
kinds of intersections so that even as we are bringing
people together, they are using their hands to create part
and they're taking it away. They are journaling with their
grandmothers about what their grandmother experienced in Civil War. You know,
(06:12):
they are thinking about the music that they can create,
the sounds that they remember from childhood. So yeah, I
think that's kind of what pushed me into it is just, yes,
wanting to do work around justice, but then also being
an artist myself and not seeing them separate things, thinking
that they can both live together and that when you
bring artists and activisms and room magic happens.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
And you mentioned that so much of your passion has
been fueled by your old childhood experiences, right, and noticing
some of the discrepancies and the disparities. Can you say
more about like what you saw as a child and
maybe how that looks different, if at all, to what
we are seeing now.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, So, as I mentioned the drop up in London,
I think about the high school that I was in
very often where we were not allowed to braid our hair.
Black girls are not allowed to webraids. If you have
in your head, you be set home. Black boys can't
allowed to cut their heads too shorts if they didn't
feel to set home, and that was my brother's experienced,
and if they had their head too long, they would
(07:09):
also be set home. So there was just no way
that you could express yourself for your culture and your
identity without that being punished. And then just seeing the
way that like migrants and running retreated lower wages that
they experienced living under continuous sphere of deportation. Yeah, it
(07:29):
wasn't the kind of childhood that were centered on play
and fun at times, even though we found our own
abnues and pathways to make that possible structurally with in society,
it was likely what being punished to existing theath So.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
You're already talking about I think some of the like
emotional weight that the immigrant process looks like, even for children, right,
So I definitely want to shift more to talking about
like where we find ourselves now and what the experience
is typically like in the emotional toll that can have,
especially when there are restrictive administrations like the one we
have now.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So yes, it's a way to constantly being made to
question your place in the country and whether you belong.
We're always living with this fear being detained or reported.
And even if you will say for being yourself, you
are concerned about the people that you care about, your
loved ones, it makes you clap the vigilant and concern
(08:23):
around them. To trust you may be collaborating with ICE,
we may give more information over so your body is
always in this state or flight or flight, and we
know that that that of course have very carmful consequences
when that becomes chronic. Even when you are just falling
on your phone or looking at the news, you're seeing
things like ICE has been given huge quotas of like
three thousand arrests to make a day, and they're being
(08:45):
given signing bonuses, we're joining if they want to sign
up as ice offices. It's just is this consistent reminder
that your life is being seen as disposable. And even
if you want to advocate and speak up against the
injustices that people are experiencing, saying who are scared that
you're advocacy could therefore lead to you also being deported
(09:05):
as well. So it's a process of also feeling like
you are silent. And there are people who are in
the process of mentally preparing to be deported to countries
where they have known memories, no family, don't network, seeing
as they have made home tears, so they are effectively
and told to start over without any support in doing so.
So they're just as helpless. List of the different ways
(09:28):
that impacts people, including children of course, who are been
scared to go to school or for preparents to go
to work because they are living in the reality that
that may be the last time that they see their parents.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
H And can you speak to camp and like, what
does support look like? I would imagine there may be
community gatherings or you know, talking with people who understand
this whole process. What does support look like when you
are under like this constant fear?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, I think it involves being able to lean on
if that were connected with But you know, I pause
and saying that because for some black migrants there isn't
that community network. They are coming here by themselves, so
that support sometimes can be fleeting. But people have mentioned,
(10:17):
of course wanting to support from therapists and be able
to manage their mental health. But even with that, a
lot of people experience cost barriers. So the real question
we ask is around having affordable access to therapy, especially
for Black migrants. I know people find a lot of
solace in their places of worship, so sometimes people may
(10:39):
go to church or moss, but even now there is
a lot of fear around even going to places of
worship due to fears of ice raids as well. There
are organizations that are brilliant about offering community care in
these ways and offering your rights trainings, legal supports and
so on. Some of those organizations are the Black Lines
for Just Immigration, Patient Women for Haitian Refuges, Patent Bridge Alliance,
(11:03):
African Communities Together, Freedoms Immigrants, and DOCU Black BLMP, and
I'm naming these organizations just in case anyone would like
to look up their work and connect with them. So,
despite all of the structural limitations for people seeing support,
there are ways in which ministries are organizing mutual aid
funds to try and support people in these times as well.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Thank you for that, Catherine. More from our conversation after
the break. You know, there is often the misconception that
immigration only impacts like Latin communities, right, which leaves this
(11:46):
whole population of black migrants out. Can you talk about
the horn that that kind of misconception does, especially for
the black migrant experience.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yes, it basically, well, it is sensep anti blackness. It's
centered on trying to erase black migrants from the conversation
around immigration. It leads to our visibilization when it comes
to resources and the supports that we can have access to,
and we see this happen in a variety of rates,
for example of language justice. For example, when we think
(12:18):
about the languages that resources are translated to, it's rarely
translated into African and Fribean languages, which means that our
people are missing vital is information. And we know that
black migrants are disproportionately infected via see of these policies,
especially when we think about frommigration and the ways in
which black migrants are over policed and have higher risks
(12:40):
of deportation due to these contacts, even if they are
never charged with a crime, So even one violent crimes
can lead to deportation, and this of course means that
they are higher risk of being rationally profiled, more likely
to experience police brutality, prison solitary confinement and retention, importation
(13:00):
and so on. And then when we look at Pump's
travel band, for example, we see that many of the
countries impacted by that are African and Phobian countries like
Katiboth than Smart Year. So again a case of anti
blackness and the way in which we see racial injustice
using morphobia is affection.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Are there any recent statistics or case studies that you
have that can really highlight how ice is disproportionately targeting
the black community.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So black migrants make up five percent of the indocuments
of population, but they make up twenty percent of the
migrants who are facing removable due to criminal convictions. Black
migrants are six times more likely to be solitary confinement
in detention, they are also well than two times more
likely to be reduced when in detention. And when we
(13:50):
look at determination of temporary protected status, for example, in
the case of patient immigrants, that would leave over five
hundred thousand people vulnerable to deportation, as well as migrants
from countries Mike, Sudan and Marine. And one of the
cases that I have currently been keeping my eye on
is that of one to Just who was taken into
(14:12):
detention following Ady Stock and his partner currently does not
know where he is. So the information that she has
received is that he's experiencing severe nosebleeds and there are
concerns around the food and eir quality in the environment
that he's in. But she's been trying to locate him.
And I'm also thinking of Forgey, who's a thirty nine
year old black disabled migrant who went to traffic ports
(14:35):
and on the courthouse steps he was kidnapped by ice
and he's currently experiencing mental and physical health issues as well. Now.
So there are several fund raisers to try and secure
legal representation, but there are just so many places they're endless,
and we're seeing that the climate slave is bos and
West day by day.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I really appreciate you shedding light on the Katherine because
I was just thinking, like some of the more high
file cases where ICE has kidnapped people, I don't feel
like I've heard them be any Black migrants right, Like,
it feels like they are not typically members of the
black community. So I'm really appreciative of you sharing that.
It feels like that is another instance of you know,
(15:16):
like the black community in anti blackness really proliferating conversations
around immigration and coverage around what's happening. So how do
intersecting identities like being black, undocumented, queer, and training and
shape their immigrant experience in ways that can compound trauma
and risk.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yes, so there are many black migrants have left home
countries that had homophobic and transphobic environments, policies and practices,
places where they could be killed or incarcerated for being
paratrans to come to the US where the attacks on
LGBTYE plus people are increasing. So it means being exposed
(15:54):
to compounding full of trauma and being disproportionately vulnerable to violence.
They are experiencing attacks on all fronts at this time
due to those intersections that you named race, gender, sexuality, immigration, status,
and so on. The prejudices that queer and trans people
are experiencing, including in immigrant communities, that make it harder
(16:15):
for them to have community. It deepens the feeling of isolation.
Even when we think about seeking health care, for example,
they have increasing fears around medical violence, use of being black,
and trends. So when I think about these intersections of identities,
I feel like there just needs to be way more
(16:36):
advocacy and way more visibility around the needs that black
and documented queer and trans people are experiencing. And there
are organizations, including those dimensioned but specifically the LMP, who
is doing great work to combat into these injustices that
these multies are experiencing.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
So I wonder are you able to highlight any particular
experiences for black women migrants, because you know, we know
that that experience is different, right, and I would imagine
it's no different for the migrant experience. Are there any
particular nuances that you can highlight there?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, So, LA migrant women are more likely to experience
sexual and gender based violence at different points of their
migration journey, so it could happen when they are in
the home countries on their way to the US while
they're in the US, So we've had several counts of
people just experiencing compounding forms of violence and then of
(17:33):
course coming here and not having access to healthcare or
ways to heal from the trauma that they'd experience. They
are more likely to make less money and live below
the poverty line, which means that it's even more difficult
for them to be caregivers to look after their children
and elders and their families and communities and so on.
They are more likely to experience health issues and biases
(17:55):
in medical institutions that are difficult to navigate, these language barriers,
and they're all so more likely to experience domestic violence.
I may not know good to turn to due to
fear of speaking out, and that impacting their ability to
remain in the country. So definitely we see lots of
the trends that black women in general experience, unfortunately, and
(18:16):
how that kind of translates inverts about black micro women experience.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
And you mentioned earlier herethan that some of what a
lot of the other organizations are offering are things like
know your Rights kind of campaigns, and it kind of
feels like, is there anything that people can do to
protect themselves right now given their ice agents or just
showing up have hazardly and taking people in without any
real rhyme or reason. When you talk about like knowing
(18:41):
your rights, like, are there things that you can point
to and or offer for people who may be worried
about detention and things they need to maybe have on
their person.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, so the noneral rights trainings, I know that there
are several organizations that also have like physical parts just
to keep people keep at the top of people's minds
their right to remain silent or right to seek legal representation,
and they have it translated into several languages. So I
think that that is a useful thing to keep in mind.
I think there are mental health resources that are being
(19:11):
offered by several organizations, with therapists even offering free therapy
sessions for people to help them decompress and do that
work around regulating their nervous systems, which is important. I
always advocate for people when possible to try and think
about community safety plans with people that they trust again
if that's possible, if they haven't trusted people, so that
(19:34):
they can think about alternatives to calling the police. Seeingers
that we know that police in ice go hand in
hand as well. So it's difficult, definitely to think about
the solution because everyone's situation is different. But I think
just starting with connecting with some of these organizations on
the ground, especially that have mutual aid funds some of
these organizations, or supporting people and even just getting groceries
(19:56):
delivered because they're fearful of their into supermarkets themselves. Thinking
about this tangible instatasies and meet them back and also
they're a really long way and allowing people to feel
cared for and seen.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You already mentioned some concerns around the travel bands and
how those impact like Caribbean countries and other black countries.
Are there other laws or things that you expect to
be put in place that are on the pipeline or
being discussed right now that we expect to disproportionately impact
black migrants.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, So for me, I'm not aware of things that
are currently in the pipeline, but I would say that
what I'm unfortunately sassin about is just the increased in
criminalization of black migrant communities. I think that we are
just going to see the increased presence of police and
(20:48):
the increased collaboration between police and ICE and other institutions
to make people even more fearful around experiencing and receiving
services that are life saving, including just seeking medical care.
And also I just think we're going to see a
lot more around just the infringement of people's data security
(21:09):
and rites with people's information being handed over to ICE
to make more rests and to try and increase this
detention to deportation pipeline.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, you've already talked a little bit about this also, Catherine,
But are there any things in particular that you want
to highlight about black girls in the migrant experience, especially
people are separated from families, like anything that you want
to kind of call attention to about how that's impacting
black girls.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I think for black girls, again, as I mentioned, when
you are in an environment where you are thinking and
concerned about your safety, your belonging the second and belonging
of people and your family and your communities, there are
parts of your childhood that become sacrificed. There is a
(22:01):
way in which you are forced into knowing more and
that you are trying to be in defense of the
people that you care about. It makes you just scared
to do things that children should do, make friends, playing,
tell people things about yourself. So I have a very
(22:22):
soft spot for young black girls because I just wish
that there was a different reality that was possible for them.
And I know that in this time, in this moment,
especially with the increase that we are seeing around these
anti immigrant policies, that people are breathing like it's summer
and it's sunny and ideally kids should be Oxford just
enjoying themselves, but people are living in hiding right now.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, more from our conversation after the break, and I
would imagine there's probably increasing fear about what happens when
the school year starts again, right Like, I feel like
we saw some conversations around ice showing up at school
(23:06):
at school was ending this year, and so you know,
with a new school year on the horizon, I would
imagine there was an increasing fear there.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yeah, exactly exactly. This is no break, whether you're home
from school, whether they're at school, whether you're at home,
whether you're outside, it's just as consistently for just being
scaped of goddesses what you are.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
You've already offered a lot of suggestions. But is there
anything else that you'd like to offer to families or
people who might be, you know, worried about ice or
how to protect themselves, anything else tangible that they should
be aware of about how to protect themselves and their families.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yes, so I would encourage people that care about ammunities
that'll be impacted by these anti immigrant policies to amplify
the stories that they're seeing, especially with black migrants, seeing
as we married that we're experiencing so much for rasia
from media and all these platforms. People can also so
consider participating in court Watch, which involves volunteering to accompany
(24:05):
people support so that they know they're not alone and
that the judges of attorneys also know that there's a
community trying to hold them accountable. People can also volunteer
for detention hotlines to be able to communicate with people,
send letters to people detention, sign for petitions. I think
people can also post when they see ice in places.
(24:27):
I've seen a lot of people in New York do
that when they see that there's an ice presence somewhere,
Just notifying people so that they can organize themselves accordingly,
and then also for service providers if it's possible, I
would really encourage people to consider offering low cost for
free sessions to black migrants who are trying to navigate
(24:48):
the trauma that they're experiencing at this time.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
You know, Okay, then you bring up a good point.
And I feel like I've seen a lot of stories
around like if not identifying themselves, right, they're not necessarily
dressed in like uniform and so how do you even
know if you are having an encounter with an ICE
agent or like that there is a collection of them somewhere?
Is there any way to tell?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah? I think that's one of the scariest parts that
people are just literally being kidnapped by people who they
cannot even identify, and their communities are not even aware
of what's happening until it's too late, often or until
they're already being detained. So what you're naming is actually
part of the scariest parts about it is that it's
almost like a mob that is just going and taking
(25:33):
people off the streets.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, and because there isn't necessarily any identification, it doesn't
feel like there's a real way to follow somebody, like
if they have been detained, right, Like how do you
even identify where somebody is in the system or maybe
where they've been deported if you weren't able to get
any real information like from the person who detained them.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, I think it's very difficult. I know that the
organizations believe that's trying to form like detention trackers and
things like that, But as I mentioned with the caser
like Ronny do just like his partner, really doesn't know
what he is at his time. So there's a lot
of tiqueness to the system which makes it even more
scary and makes it even more possible for people to
(26:16):
be taken and deported.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So you mentioned a couple of ways that people can
be good allies right on court Wach you mentioned writing letters.
Are there specific legislators that we need to be writing
to or talking with? What kind of other advocacy things
people want to get involved in that could help with
some of this.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yes, I think that that would be great, And they're
definitely organizations like the ones are listed who have those
lists of people that are currently trying to target doing
a love work on the hill to try and ensure
that there are some advocacy happening there. So I would
say a good starting place is to connect with the
organizations on the ground who don't go work and see
(27:01):
the different people that they are trying to contact at
this time to try and build power in that way.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
You've offered several different organizations that you said are offering
access to therapy. Are there other mental health services that
you would like to see being provided to black migrants
to this community at this time?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, I know that so many black migrants have different
spiritual practices. For example, myself, I'm Menagering, I'm Europa and
our people, well, some of our people practice lyfar and
different forms of spiritual practices. So thinking about more holistic
ways of thinking about mental and spiritual health feels important.
(27:43):
So for anyone who is a service provider in ers
that maybe do not fall under traditional forms of therapy,
even things like reiki, people that even do things in
the realm of like astrology, people are just like yearning
for different forms of no and healing in this time,
and I think it's all important. So I know that's
(28:04):
a lot of times people like you know, I don't
do this, this would be useful, But our people now
are open to allferings because they're all different and have
different areas that we would like to experience cair and support.
So I think really just thinking of out of the
box around what you can offer and seeing how you
can also ensure that people that are directly impacted by
these issues know that you have these offerings of noble
(28:28):
and I actually have a mental health database on my
website where I include like a list of some of
these offerings from people that I know are offering free
to low cost therapy options.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Beautiful. I appreciate that. And my next question was going
to be, would you suggest like connecting maybe with one
of the organizations that you have listed, because I would
imagine with so much fear, like you don't want to
just say like, oh, I'm offering this group for people,
and people don't know how to trust that, like you're
actually creating a safe space. So would the best way
be to actually connect with somebody else who's already like
(29:02):
a trusted partner in this work so that you can
share your offerings.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, No, I think that's a really great idea. I
think the more comfortable that people feel with the sanvice provider,
the easier is for them to feel like it can
reach out. But then I suppose I think that there's
net and being able to share on your platforms as well,
if you have like a presence, whether it's on social
media or otherwise, that Hi, I'm this person, Here's my
(29:28):
background is one trying to offer Here's why I'm trying
to offer it. Here are the steps I will take
to try and ensure your safety as we engaged with
each other. I think the more thought that can be
shared suddenly will share the true intentions of a person
and will make people more comfortable reaching out to them.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Can you give any insight onto what kinds of platforms
people may want to use, Like I understand that things
like signal or other platforms may be a better way
to communicate with people than maybe just like your regular
text messages. Can you offer any insight into what kinds
of platforms to use and maybe ensure a further safety.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, so signal definitely, And I think on Signal there's
several settings around just allowing things to disappear. Also, people
maybe not using their actual names even on signal, turning
off notifications when you are traveling and you're landing in,
turning your phone off, turning off base ID when you
are at convenings, example, conferences, if you can ask people
(30:27):
to not share their location while they're there. Now on
people's stories, sometimes they want to share where they're at
and what they're doing, but if they could hold off
and do that after, that will help protect the safety
of people. For researchers trying to use encrypted databases that
offer you their ability to put passwords and have a
(30:47):
separate key and to take away identifiable information, or even
just not asking demographic information if it's not needed. So,
depending on the field, I think there are different ways
that people can go about trying to enforce and ensure
that people are as safe as possible.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Kevin, is there any message of hope or resistance that
you would like to share for people who may be
feeling overwhelmed by this process, anything that you can offer.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yes, I would remind them that they belong. They belong,
they belong, that they are inherently worthy and valuable, that
will continue to fight for them, will continue to organize
for them, That they deserve community, they deserve care. Yeah,
I think that's just a reminder of the inherent welthiness
(31:38):
and the inherent ability that they should have to be here,
and that there are several people on the ground, visireful,
talented people on the ground who are fighting for them
day in and day out. Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So where can we stay connected with you? Catherine? What
is your website as well as any social media channel?
What you'd like to share?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yes, so, my name is Katherine Labyn, My website is
Catherine Labron dot com. My whole name is c A
t h E r I n E la b I
r a n. And the website is Kaprinelabyn dot com.
Social media at cats Labyron so c at hs la
b I r A N. Yeah, if you reach out
(32:23):
to me on any of those platforms, I would love
to sit the next and talk to you more about
any of the things to be spoken about today.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Thank you so much for joining us, Katherine. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
I was so inspired by my conversation with Katherine, and
I hope that you took away a lot from this
episode as well. To learn more about Katherine or to
check out the resources she shared, be sure to visit
our show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com
slash session for twenty seven, and don't forget to text
this episode to two of your girls right now and
tell them to check it out. Did you know that
(32:57):
you could leave us a voicemail with your questions or
cogestions for the podcast. If you have movies or books
you like us to review, or have thoughts about topics
you'd like us to discuss, drop us a message at
memo dot fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and let
us know what's on your mind. We just might feature
it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist
in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for
(33:19):
Blackgirls dot com slash directory. Don't forget to follow us
over on Instagram and come on over and join us
in our Patreon community. You can join us at community
dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced
by Aleise Ellis, Indytubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done
by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me
(33:40):
again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation
with you all real soon. Take good care,
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session four Therapy for Black Girls Podcast.
We'll get right into our conversation afterword from our sponsors.
This week, we're discussing a crisis that's disrupting lives across
the country, the escalating wave of deportations, tearing families apart
(01:22):
and dismantling the fragile sense of safety many immigrants cling to. Today,
I'm joined by Catherine Laberon, a writer, organizer, and research
manager whose work lives at the intersections of immigration, justice,
black liberation, and mental health. Catherine has spent her career
advocating for black immigrants whose stories are too often erased
(01:43):
from national conversations. She first began making sense of injustice
through poetry, transforming personal experience into a practice of healing
and resistance. Today, her work centers around archiving black mirgareant
wisdom and building safe spaces for those navigating distant placement, identity,
and systemic injustice. Katherine and I discussed the emotional toll
(02:06):
of migration, the resilience of African and Caribbean diasporic communities,
and explore the ways art, community care, and protecting joy
become lifelines in the face of racism and erasure. If
something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share
with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session,
(02:28):
or join us over in our Patreon channel Let's talk
more about the episode. You can join us at community
dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation, Catherine,
thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, I'm excited to chat with you and would love
to start by hearing more about your backgrounds or you
have worked at the intersection of immigration, justice, and mental
health and liberation for quite some time. Now, so what
got you into this fuel and can you tell us
more about your work.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
So I'm Nigerian. I was born in New York, raised
in London, and as a young black girl growing up
in Northwest London, I was very aware of the mistreatment
of immigrants in the country. I just have this visceral
feeling around the disparities and the injustices that we were experiencing,
even before I had the language to describe it. So
(03:22):
in my childhood, poetry became the avenue for me to
make sense of some of the things that I was
feeling and witnessing in London. And the more I started
telling my own personal story, the more I felt that
poetry was this alchemizing force for me to be able
to heal and make sense of my suffering. And I
wanted to accompany other young black girls and doing the
(03:43):
same to access that liberation and healing that art't mix possible.
So my core within the work that I do in
service of black migrants is thinking about storytelling, thinking about
archiving our wisdom, our strategies, all of the things have
been passed on to us throughout generations so that we
(04:03):
can continue to fight for justice for all people. So
I always round in my background in terms of ancestry
and writing, and that has led me to work across advotacy,
research and policy spaces.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, and a lot of your work has been policy.
So what does a day to day look like for
you currently?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
It looks like so many different things because I work
at the intersection of so many different movements from racial justice,
gender justice, migrant justice. Everything is very intersectional. So I
don't think there's any typical day to day because the
sociopolitical climate that we are in is continuously shifting, like
(04:43):
continuous and new stresses that people are experiencing. But I
would say again, the core is thinking about how do
we research what's happening, How do we ensure that people
on the ground are informed and there are the actions that
they can take. How can we ensure that we're doing
this work in a way that truly sens people and
their needs, And how we also archiving the impact of
(05:05):
what that we're doing so that we do want duplicate
efforts from the future. And I now have the honor
of doing that with several different organizations as a consultant.
So really just tailoring my work to support the organization
and Efflective's needs.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Can you say more about what led you to developing
your consulting firm where you identifying gaps that organizations needed
help with wood led you there?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Sure? Yeah, again, I think what led me there is
this insistence that there is a deep interdependence between art
and activism and in order to do this work, whether
it's naming disparities that we are seeing or shining light
on injustice. For me, art is the mechanism that makes
(05:50):
all things possible, that allows people to be truly engaged
from the work that makes people remember details. So my
consulting work is being able to shed light on those
kinds of intersections so that even as we are bringing
people together, they are using their hands to create part
and they're taking it away. They are journaling with their
grandmothers about what their grandmother experienced in Civil War. You know,
(06:12):
they are thinking about the music that they can create,
the sounds that they remember from childhood. So yeah, I
think that's kind of what pushed me into it is just, yes,
wanting to do work around justice, but then also being
an artist myself and not seeing them separate things, thinking
that they can both live together and that when you
bring artists and activisms and room magic happens.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
And you mentioned that so much of your passion has
been fueled by your old childhood experiences, right, and noticing
some of the discrepancies and the disparities. Can you say
more about like what you saw as a child and
maybe how that looks different, if at all, to what
we are seeing now.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, So, as I mentioned the drop up in London,
I think about the high school that I was in
very often where we were not allowed to braid our hair.
Black girls are not allowed to webraids. If you have
in your head, you be set home. Black boys can't
allowed to cut their heads too shorts if they didn't
feel to set home, and that was my brother's experienced,
and if they had their head too long, they would
(07:09):
also be set home. So there was just no way
that you could express yourself for your culture and your
identity without that being punished. And then just seeing the
way that like migrants and running retreated lower wages that
they experienced living under continuous sphere of deportation. Yeah, it
(07:29):
wasn't the kind of childhood that were centered on play
and fun at times, even though we found our own
abnues and pathways to make that possible structurally with in society,
it was likely what being punished to existing theath So.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
You're already talking about I think some of the like
emotional weight that the immigrant process looks like, even for children, right,
So I definitely want to shift more to talking about
like where we find ourselves now and what the experience
is typically like in the emotional toll that can have,
especially when there are restrictive administrations like the one we
have now.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So yes, it's a way to constantly being made to
question your place in the country and whether you belong.
We're always living with this fear being detained or reported.
And even if you will say for being yourself, you
are concerned about the people that you care about, your
loved ones, it makes you clap the vigilant and concern
(08:23):
around them. To trust you may be collaborating with ICE,
we may give more information over so your body is
always in this state or flight or flight, and we
know that that that of course have very carmful consequences
when that becomes chronic. Even when you are just falling
on your phone or looking at the news, you're seeing
things like ICE has been given huge quotas of like
three thousand arrests to make a day, and they're being
(08:45):
given signing bonuses, we're joining if they want to sign
up as ice offices. It's just is this consistent reminder
that your life is being seen as disposable. And even
if you want to advocate and speak up against the
injustices that people are experiencing, saying who are scared that
you're advocacy could therefore lead to you also being deported
(09:05):
as well. So it's a process of also feeling like
you are silent. And there are people who are in
the process of mentally preparing to be deported to countries
where they have known memories, no family, don't network, seeing
as they have made home tears, so they are effectively
and told to start over without any support in doing so.
So they're just as helpless. List of the different ways
(09:28):
that impacts people, including children of course, who are been
scared to go to school or for preparents to go
to work because they are living in the reality that
that may be the last time that they see their parents.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
H And can you speak to camp and like, what
does support look like? I would imagine there may be
community gatherings or you know, talking with people who understand
this whole process. What does support look like when you
are under like this constant fear?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, I think it involves being able to lean on
if that were connected with But you know, I pause
and saying that because for some black migrants there isn't
that community network. They are coming here by themselves, so
that support sometimes can be fleeting. But people have mentioned,
(10:17):
of course wanting to support from therapists and be able
to manage their mental health. But even with that, a
lot of people experience cost barriers. So the real question
we ask is around having affordable access to therapy, especially
for Black migrants. I know people find a lot of
solace in their places of worship, so sometimes people may
(10:39):
go to church or moss, but even now there is
a lot of fear around even going to places of
worship due to fears of ice raids as well. There
are organizations that are brilliant about offering community care in
these ways and offering your rights trainings, legal supports and
so on. Some of those organizations are the Black Lines
for Just Immigration, Patient Women for Haitian Refuges, Patent Bridge Alliance,
(11:03):
African Communities Together, Freedoms Immigrants, and DOCU Black BLMP, and
I'm naming these organizations just in case anyone would like
to look up their work and connect with them. So,
despite all of the structural limitations for people seeing support,
there are ways in which ministries are organizing mutual aid
funds to try and support people in these times as well.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Thank you for that, Catherine. More from our conversation after
the break. You know, there is often the misconception that
immigration only impacts like Latin communities, right, which leaves this
(11:46):
whole population of black migrants out. Can you talk about
the horn that that kind of misconception does, especially for
the black migrant experience.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yes, it basically, well, it is sensep anti blackness. It's
centered on trying to erase black migrants from the conversation
around immigration. It leads to our visibilization when it comes
to resources and the supports that we can have access to,
and we see this happen in a variety of rates,
for example of language justice. For example, when we think
(12:18):
about the languages that resources are translated to, it's rarely
translated into African and Fribean languages, which means that our
people are missing vital is information. And we know that
black migrants are disproportionately infected via see of these policies,
especially when we think about frommigration and the ways in
which black migrants are over policed and have higher risks
(12:40):
of deportation due to these contacts, even if they are
never charged with a crime, So even one violent crimes
can lead to deportation, and this of course means that
they are higher risk of being rationally profiled, more likely
to experience police brutality, prison solitary confinement and retention, importation
(13:00):
and so on. And then when we look at Pump's
travel band, for example, we see that many of the
countries impacted by that are African and Phobian countries like
Katiboth than Smart Year. So again a case of anti
blackness and the way in which we see racial injustice
using morphobia is affection.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Are there any recent statistics or case studies that you
have that can really highlight how ice is disproportionately targeting
the black community.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So black migrants make up five percent of the indocuments
of population, but they make up twenty percent of the
migrants who are facing removable due to criminal convictions. Black
migrants are six times more likely to be solitary confinement
in detention, they are also well than two times more
likely to be reduced when in detention. And when we
(13:50):
look at determination of temporary protected status, for example, in
the case of patient immigrants, that would leave over five
hundred thousand people vulnerable to deportation, as well as migrants
from countries Mike, Sudan and Marine. And one of the
cases that I have currently been keeping my eye on
is that of one to Just who was taken into
(14:12):
detention following Ady Stock and his partner currently does not
know where he is. So the information that she has
received is that he's experiencing severe nosebleeds and there are
concerns around the food and eir quality in the environment
that he's in. But she's been trying to locate him.
And I'm also thinking of Forgey, who's a thirty nine
year old black disabled migrant who went to traffic ports
(14:35):
and on the courthouse steps he was kidnapped by ice
and he's currently experiencing mental and physical health issues as well. Now.
So there are several fund raisers to try and secure
legal representation, but there are just so many places they're endless,
and we're seeing that the climate slave is bos and
West day by day.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I really appreciate you shedding light on the Katherine because
I was just thinking, like some of the more high
file cases where ICE has kidnapped people, I don't feel
like I've heard them be any Black migrants right, Like,
it feels like they are not typically members of the
black community. So I'm really appreciative of you sharing that.
It feels like that is another instance of you know,
(15:16):
like the black community in anti blackness really proliferating conversations
around immigration and coverage around what's happening. So how do
intersecting identities like being black, undocumented, queer, and training and
shape their immigrant experience in ways that can compound trauma
and risk.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yes, so there are many black migrants have left home
countries that had homophobic and transphobic environments, policies and practices,
places where they could be killed or incarcerated for being
paratrans to come to the US where the attacks on
LGBTYE plus people are increasing. So it means being exposed
(15:54):
to compounding full of trauma and being disproportionately vulnerable to violence.
They are experiencing attacks on all fronts at this time
due to those intersections that you named race, gender, sexuality, immigration, status,
and so on. The prejudices that queer and trans people
are experiencing, including in immigrant communities, that make it harder
(16:15):
for them to have community. It deepens the feeling of isolation.
Even when we think about seeking health care, for example,
they have increasing fears around medical violence, use of being black,
and trends. So when I think about these intersections of identities,
I feel like there just needs to be way more
(16:36):
advocacy and way more visibility around the needs that black
and documented queer and trans people are experiencing. And there
are organizations, including those dimensioned but specifically the LMP, who
is doing great work to combat into these injustices that
these multies are experiencing.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
So I wonder are you able to highlight any particular
experiences for black women migrants, because you know, we know
that that experience is different, right, and I would imagine
it's no different for the migrant experience. Are there any
particular nuances that you can highlight there?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, So, LA migrant women are more likely to experience
sexual and gender based violence at different points of their
migration journey, so it could happen when they are in
the home countries on their way to the US while
they're in the US, So we've had several counts of
people just experiencing compounding forms of violence and then of
(17:33):
course coming here and not having access to healthcare or
ways to heal from the trauma that they'd experience. They
are more likely to make less money and live below
the poverty line, which means that it's even more difficult
for them to be caregivers to look after their children
and elders and their families and communities and so on.
They are more likely to experience health issues and biases
(17:55):
in medical institutions that are difficult to navigate, these language barriers,
and they're all so more likely to experience domestic violence.
I may not know good to turn to due to
fear of speaking out, and that impacting their ability to
remain in the country. So definitely we see lots of
the trends that black women in general experience, unfortunately, and
(18:16):
how that kind of translates inverts about black micro women experience.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
And you mentioned earlier herethan that some of what a
lot of the other organizations are offering are things like
know your Rights kind of campaigns, and it kind of
feels like, is there anything that people can do to
protect themselves right now given their ice agents or just
showing up have hazardly and taking people in without any
real rhyme or reason. When you talk about like knowing
(18:41):
your rights, like, are there things that you can point
to and or offer for people who may be worried
about detention and things they need to maybe have on
their person.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, so the noneral rights trainings, I know that there
are several organizations that also have like physical parts just
to keep people keep at the top of people's minds
their right to remain silent or right to seek legal representation,
and they have it translated into several languages. So I
think that that is a useful thing to keep in mind.
I think there are mental health resources that are being
(19:11):
offered by several organizations, with therapists even offering free therapy
sessions for people to help them decompress and do that
work around regulating their nervous systems, which is important. I
always advocate for people when possible to try and think
about community safety plans with people that they trust again
if that's possible, if they haven't trusted people, so that
(19:34):
they can think about alternatives to calling the police. Seeingers
that we know that police in ice go hand in
hand as well. So it's difficult, definitely to think about
the solution because everyone's situation is different. But I think
just starting with connecting with some of these organizations on
the ground, especially that have mutual aid funds some of
these organizations, or supporting people and even just getting groceries
(19:56):
delivered because they're fearful of their into supermarkets themselves. Thinking
about this tangible instatasies and meet them back and also
they're a really long way and allowing people to feel
cared for and seen.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You already mentioned some concerns around the travel bands and
how those impact like Caribbean countries and other black countries.
Are there other laws or things that you expect to
be put in place that are on the pipeline or
being discussed right now that we expect to disproportionately impact
black migrants.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, So for me, I'm not aware of things that
are currently in the pipeline, but I would say that
what I'm unfortunately sassin about is just the increased in
criminalization of black migrant communities. I think that we are
just going to see the increased presence of police and
(20:48):
the increased collaboration between police and ICE and other institutions
to make people even more fearful around experiencing and receiving
services that are life saving, including just seeking medical care.
And also I just think we're going to see a
lot more around just the infringement of people's data security
(21:09):
and rites with people's information being handed over to ICE
to make more rests and to try and increase this
detention to deportation pipeline.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, you've already talked a little bit about this also, Catherine,
But are there any things in particular that you want
to highlight about black girls in the migrant experience, especially
people are separated from families, like anything that you want
to kind of call attention to about how that's impacting
black girls.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I think for black girls, again, as I mentioned, when
you are in an environment where you are thinking and
concerned about your safety, your belonging the second and belonging
of people and your family and your communities, there are
parts of your childhood that become sacrificed. There is a
(22:01):
way in which you are forced into knowing more and
that you are trying to be in defense of the
people that you care about. It makes you just scared
to do things that children should do, make friends, playing,
tell people things about yourself. So I have a very
(22:22):
soft spot for young black girls because I just wish
that there was a different reality that was possible for them.
And I know that in this time, in this moment,
especially with the increase that we are seeing around these
anti immigrant policies, that people are breathing like it's summer
and it's sunny and ideally kids should be Oxford just
enjoying themselves, but people are living in hiding right now.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, more from our conversation after the break, and I
would imagine there's probably increasing fear about what happens when
the school year starts again, right Like, I feel like
we saw some conversations around ice showing up at school
(23:06):
at school was ending this year, and so you know,
with a new school year on the horizon, I would
imagine there was an increasing fear there.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yeah, exactly exactly. This is no break, whether you're home
from school, whether they're at school, whether you're at home,
whether you're outside, it's just as consistently for just being
scaped of goddesses what you are.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
You've already offered a lot of suggestions. But is there
anything else that you'd like to offer to families or
people who might be, you know, worried about ice or
how to protect themselves, anything else tangible that they should
be aware of about how to protect themselves and their families.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yes, so I would encourage people that care about ammunities
that'll be impacted by these anti immigrant policies to amplify
the stories that they're seeing, especially with black migrants, seeing
as we married that we're experiencing so much for rasia
from media and all these platforms. People can also so
consider participating in court Watch, which involves volunteering to accompany
(24:05):
people support so that they know they're not alone and
that the judges of attorneys also know that there's a
community trying to hold them accountable. People can also volunteer
for detention hotlines to be able to communicate with people,
send letters to people detention, sign for petitions. I think
people can also post when they see ice in places.
(24:27):
I've seen a lot of people in New York do
that when they see that there's an ice presence somewhere,
Just notifying people so that they can organize themselves accordingly,
and then also for service providers if it's possible, I
would really encourage people to consider offering low cost for
free sessions to black migrants who are trying to navigate
(24:48):
the trauma that they're experiencing at this time.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
You know, Okay, then you bring up a good point.
And I feel like I've seen a lot of stories
around like if not identifying themselves, right, they're not necessarily
dressed in like uniform and so how do you even
know if you are having an encounter with an ICE
agent or like that there is a collection of them somewhere?
Is there any way to tell?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah? I think that's one of the scariest parts that
people are just literally being kidnapped by people who they
cannot even identify, and their communities are not even aware
of what's happening until it's too late, often or until
they're already being detained. So what you're naming is actually
part of the scariest parts about it is that it's
almost like a mob that is just going and taking
(25:33):
people off the streets.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, and because there isn't necessarily any identification, it doesn't
feel like there's a real way to follow somebody, like
if they have been detained, right, Like how do you
even identify where somebody is in the system or maybe
where they've been deported if you weren't able to get
any real information like from the person who detained them.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, I think it's very difficult. I know that the
organizations believe that's trying to form like detention trackers and
things like that, But as I mentioned with the caser
like Ronny do just like his partner, really doesn't know
what he is at his time. So there's a lot
of tiqueness to the system which makes it even more
scary and makes it even more possible for people to
(26:16):
be taken and deported.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So you mentioned a couple of ways that people can
be good allies right on court Wach you mentioned writing letters.
Are there specific legislators that we need to be writing
to or talking with? What kind of other advocacy things
people want to get involved in that could help with
some of this.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yes, I think that that would be great, And they're
definitely organizations like the ones are listed who have those
lists of people that are currently trying to target doing
a love work on the hill to try and ensure
that there are some advocacy happening there. So I would
say a good starting place is to connect with the
organizations on the ground who don't go work and see
(27:01):
the different people that they are trying to contact at
this time to try and build power in that way.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
You've offered several different organizations that you said are offering
access to therapy. Are there other mental health services that
you would like to see being provided to black migrants
to this community at this time?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, I know that so many black migrants have different
spiritual practices. For example, myself, I'm Menagering, I'm Europa and
our people, well, some of our people practice lyfar and
different forms of spiritual practices. So thinking about more holistic
ways of thinking about mental and spiritual health feels important.
(27:43):
So for anyone who is a service provider in ers
that maybe do not fall under traditional forms of therapy,
even things like reiki, people that even do things in
the realm of like astrology, people are just like yearning
for different forms of no and healing in this time,
and I think it's all important. So I know that's
(28:04):
a lot of times people like you know, I don't
do this, this would be useful, But our people now
are open to allferings because they're all different and have
different areas that we would like to experience cair and support.
So I think really just thinking of out of the
box around what you can offer and seeing how you
can also ensure that people that are directly impacted by
these issues know that you have these offerings of noble
(28:28):
and I actually have a mental health database on my
website where I include like a list of some of
these offerings from people that I know are offering free
to low cost therapy options.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Beautiful. I appreciate that. And my next question was going
to be, would you suggest like connecting maybe with one
of the organizations that you have listed, because I would
imagine with so much fear, like you don't want to
just say like, oh, I'm offering this group for people,
and people don't know how to trust that, like you're
actually creating a safe space. So would the best way
be to actually connect with somebody else who's already like
(29:02):
a trusted partner in this work so that you can
share your offerings.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, No, I think that's a really great idea. I
think the more comfortable that people feel with the sanvice provider,
the easier is for them to feel like it can
reach out. But then I suppose I think that there's
net and being able to share on your platforms as well,
if you have like a presence, whether it's on social
media or otherwise, that Hi, I'm this person, Here's my
(29:28):
background is one trying to offer Here's why I'm trying
to offer it. Here are the steps I will take
to try and ensure your safety as we engaged with
each other. I think the more thought that can be
shared suddenly will share the true intentions of a person
and will make people more comfortable reaching out to them.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Can you give any insight onto what kinds of platforms
people may want to use, Like I understand that things
like signal or other platforms may be a better way
to communicate with people than maybe just like your regular
text messages. Can you offer any insight into what kinds
of platforms to use and maybe ensure a further safety.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, so signal definitely, And I think on Signal there's
several settings around just allowing things to disappear. Also, people
maybe not using their actual names even on signal, turning
off notifications when you are traveling and you're landing in,
turning your phone off, turning off base ID when you
are at convenings, example, conferences, if you can ask people
(30:27):
to not share their location while they're there. Now on
people's stories, sometimes they want to share where they're at
and what they're doing, but if they could hold off
and do that after, that will help protect the safety
of people. For researchers trying to use encrypted databases that
offer you their ability to put passwords and have a
(30:47):
separate key and to take away identifiable information, or even
just not asking demographic information if it's not needed. So,
depending on the field, I think there are different ways
that people can go about trying to enforce and ensure
that people are as safe as possible.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Kevin, is there any message of hope or resistance that
you would like to share for people who may be
feeling overwhelmed by this process, anything that you can offer.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yes, I would remind them that they belong. They belong,
they belong, that they are inherently worthy and valuable, that
will continue to fight for them, will continue to organize
for them, That they deserve community, they deserve care. Yeah,
I think that's just a reminder of the inherent welthiness
(31:38):
and the inherent ability that they should have to be here,
and that there are several people on the ground, visireful,
talented people on the ground who are fighting for them
day in and day out. Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So where can we stay connected with you? Catherine? What
is your website as well as any social media channel?
What you'd like to share?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yes, so, my name is Katherine Labyn, My website is
Catherine Labron dot com. My whole name is c A
t h E r I n E la b I
r a n. And the website is Kaprinelabyn dot com.
Social media at cats Labyron so c at hs la
b I r A N. Yeah, if you reach out
(32:23):
to me on any of those platforms, I would love
to sit the next and talk to you more about
any of the things to be spoken about today.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Thank you so much for joining us, Katherine. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
I was so inspired by my conversation with Katherine, and
I hope that you took away a lot from this
episode as well. To learn more about Katherine or to
check out the resources she shared, be sure to visit
our show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com
slash session for twenty seven, and don't forget to text
this episode to two of your girls right now and
tell them to check it out. Did you know that
(32:57):
you could leave us a voicemail with your questions or
cogestions for the podcast. If you have movies or books
you like us to review, or have thoughts about topics
you'd like us to discuss, drop us a message at
memo dot fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and let
us know what's on your mind. We just might feature
it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist
in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for
(33:19):
Blackgirls dot com slash directory. Don't forget to follow us
over on Instagram and come on over and join us
in our Patreon community. You can join us at community
dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced
by Aleise Ellis, Indytubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done
by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me
(33:40):
again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation
with you all real soon. Take good care,
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Charlie is America's hardest working grassroots activist who has your inside scoop on the biggest news of the day and what's really going on behind the headlines. The founder of Turning Point USA and one of social media's most engaged personalities, Charlie is on the front lines of America’s culture war, mobilizing hundreds of thousands of students on over 3,500 college and high school campuses across the country, bringing you your daily dose of clarity in a sea of chaos all from his signature no-holds-barred, unapologetically conservative, freedom-loving point of view. You can also watch Charlie Kirk on Salem News Channel