October 24, 2023 • 40 mins
Congratulations, you’ve been accepted into the inaugural class of Therapy for Black Girls University. Whether you’re packing for a new year on campus, thinking through your gap year, enrolling in a community college, or grabbing your stoles for graduation, TBG U is here to help you thrive at this stage of your life and beyond.
If you’re an art major, the question of, “what are you gonna do with your degree?” is likely all too familiar. You also may have experienced feelings of uncertainty and doubt, wondering if you truly can make a living in the art space. Though none of us can predict the future, it can be empowering to see images of Black women who are already succeeding in the arts.
An example of that is today’s guest, Kaci Merriwether-Hawkins. Kaci is a Dallas-based visual storyteller and founder of Black Girls in Art Spaces. Black Girls In Art Spaces was launched in July of 2022 with the mission of holding a digital and IN REAL LIFE space for Black women to nurture their creativity, as well as champion Black artistry and Black stories. She’s been blessed to work alongside brands like Beats by Dre, Adobe, Nike, Apple, and more.
In our conversation today, we explore the obstacles faced by Black women in the art industry, the importance of having a strong network, and how simply being yourself can be the first step in securing your dream art job.
Where to Find Kaci
Black Girls in Art Spaces on TikTok
Black Girls in Art Spaces on Instagram
Black Girls in Art Spaces Website
Resources
The Institute of Black Imagination Podcast
Studio Noize Black Art Podcast
Make sure to follow us on social media:
Interested in being a part of a future TBG U episode or suggesting a topic for us to discuss, send us a note HERE.
Order a copy of Sisterhood Heals for you and your girls HERE.
Our Production Team
Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard
Producers: Fredia Lucas, Ellice Ellis & Cindy Okereke
Production Intern: Zariah Taylor
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Congratulations, you've been accepted into the inaugural class of Therapy
for Black Girls University. Whether you're packing for a new
year on campus, thinking through your gap year, enrolling in
a community college, or grabbing your souls for graduation, tpgu
is here to help you thrive at this stage of
your life and beyond.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
More from our conversation after the break.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
If you're an art major, the question of what are
you going to do with your degree is likely all
too familiar. You also may have experienced feelings of uncertainty
and doubt, wondering if you can truly make a living
in the art space. Though none of us can predict
the future, it can be empowering to see images of
Black women who are already succeeding in the arts. An
(01:00):
example of that is today's guests Casey Meriwether Hawkins. Casey
is a Dallas based visual storyteller and founder of Black
Girls and Art Spaces. Black Girls and Art Spaces was
launched in July of twenty twenty two with the mission
of holding a digital and in real life space for
Black women to nurture their creativity as well as champion
(01:22):
black artistry and black stories. She's been blessed to work
alongside brands like Beats by Dre, Adobe, Nike, Apple, and more.
In our conversation today, we explore the obstacles faced by
black women in the art industry, the importance of having
a strong network, and how simply being yourself can be
(01:43):
the first step in securing your dream art job. Here's
our conversation. So, Casey, please tell us what school did
you attend and why did you select this school?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I attended to Speaking University, and I I chose to
See University because originally I wanted to be a veterinarian
and to see he is the only HBCU with the
VET school.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
We produced eighty percent of black vets in the world,
and so I wanted to be a part of that.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So what is your earliest memory that affirmed you as
an artist and how does that relate to the work
that you do today.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Well, I would say that art was always a part
of my tapestry. I was in a lot of arts
programs growing up.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
My parents had.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Me in dance, in theater, we did pottery weekends, I painted,
I even sang, even though I cannot sing at all.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
And so I would say, like my earliest memories.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Just taking me back to my childhood as a whole,
and we're just remembering that super creative little girl that
I was, even when it came down to school projects,
like if I was able to make a poster in
science class, I was so excited to be able to
go through that creative process, and so I was always
an artsy little girl.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So take me back to Tuski University. Did you graduate
with a degree in veterinary medicine? Did you do art
in college? I'm curious to hear more about that journey.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, yeah, and I always love that question. I have
an animal science degree. I did finish the program, and
I always like to let people know like I have
zero regrets.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I loved my program, I loved my university.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
And I was able to take a lot away from
that program. I learned how to be in spaces with
people who thought differently than me, who came from different backgrounds,
different cultures. I got to learn a lot about the
land and our connection as black people to our land
and rekindling that connection. And yeah, I did internships in
animal research. But along that path, I sort of started
(03:54):
to feel like an emptiness and I wasn't feeling super
connected to the work in the same way that I
was when I had first entered to Skeegee, and.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
So God really just called me to my camera.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I had always had cameras growing up, but one day
I was like, I just want to pick up my
camera and I want to just document the day with
my friends, and so I remember we went to this
super cute arts festival that was happening in the city,
and I just documented that whole experience and really fell
in love with championing black people through my lens. And
(04:27):
from there, I really just started to take my camera everywhere.
I started doing photo shoots, and I started my photography business.
And so yeah, I'm super grateful for my experience at
to Skeigee and just being surrounded by so many beautiful
black people who come from different backgrounds, who look different,
who dress differently, who think differently, and being able to
(04:50):
just champion that through my lens.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yes, it's so important to see that in college, especially
like in the formative years of who you are, and
to see that representation and know that you can be
this person and it's okay because we're all different. So
I love that I'm curious to know if you felt
supported by that community, you're family, and your friends while
you were exploring your art career.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Oh my goodness, I was beyond supported. Like I always
tell people, if it wasn't for my Tuskegee community, I
would not be where I am today. As soon as
I started putting out the flyers, as soon as I
started sharing my work, the love just it was an
overflow of love and support. People were sharing my work
here and there, people were booking me, And yeah, I
(05:34):
felt extremely supported by Tuskegee as a whole. But then
also my friends, they were just they were there. They
were there to listen to me, they were there to
pray for me, they were there to you know, sit
in the car with me when I needed is to
cry because I didn't know exactly what path I was
going to take with this. And yeah, my family also
was extremely supportive. It definitely took some time. I had
(05:56):
been holding on to that dream of being a VET
for so long, and I had spoken it for so
long that when I came out of the woodworks, hey y'all,
I don't think I want Tom fievet anymore. I actually
kind of want to explore photography. People were like, girl,
what like and do what with that? But after a
while my parents really started to see that there was
a genuine gift there and a genuine passion, And yeah,
(06:20):
I felt supported ever since.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
What did some of the first shoots look?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Like?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
What camera were you using?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
What kind of tools?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Oh? My gosh, you're such great question. So yeah, I
will never forget. My first official paide shoot was actually
for one of my childhood friends who went to my university.
She was graduating. Her photographer ended up having some issues
and had to leave her shoe early, and she was like, Casey,
I know you just started photography, but like, would you
(06:51):
be willing to be like the second half of my shoe?
And I definitely freaked out. I had to sit there
for like fifteen minutes, and I was just like, God.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Should I Should I take this risk? This is my girl.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I don't want to her big day, you know. But
I went for it and it actually turned out pretty nice,
and so I think it was so beautiful having her
be the person who pulled me into that experience, because
it felt very full circle. She had been such a
supporter of a lot of the things I had done
in my life, and so for that to be sort
of like the inception of my photography business, I think
(07:21):
was super special. But yeah, it really started out as
graduation shoots. So you know, I started putting out flyers
and saying like, hey, y'all like book me. You know
how that goes? And from there it just became a thing.
And in that process, I really learned that I wanted
to explore more of the art side of photography, and
(07:42):
so there was a point where I started to pivot
and take a break from that, and I really got
to explore that. During COVID and during the shutdown, I
was able to kind of just go outside and be
with my friends and have very intimate moments to just
capture them in different creative ways. But yeah, it really
all started with to speeky graduation photo shoots.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
And usually that's how it starts. The best of the
best are in your classrooms. One of my close friends
did my gradue and he was learning how to do
photography and he's talented, and so it's literally right on
our campus, right in our friend groups. So glad to
hear that. Do you have a routine for creating? Do
(08:26):
you have a favorite time of the day that you
like to take pictures, like walk me through that.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, so I actually do have a routine, but the
routine also has like its as and blow so it
can change. But I would say like, primarily my foundation
looks like starting with music. I don't know what it
is about music that just feels me, but music is
something that just really gets me sort of like ready
(08:55):
to get out and create something. So I start with music,
and then I also go into prayer a lot, because
whatever I create, I just wanted.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
To be something meaningful, something fruitful.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I always want to make it my best for that moment,
and so I start there. And then I do research
sometimes and that doesn't just look like going online and
looking at past photographs from other amazing photographers, but sometimes
it can be just going outside, going to the museum,
going to a gallery space, and just being around art
from different mediums.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
And then I also like to create concept boards, like
I love a vision board.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I love something that can kind of guide me through
the process on the day of the shoot. And then
of course, like I start reaching out to people, and
my favorite people to shoot with are my friends. I'm
quick to be like, hey, girl, I had this idea.
I know you don't really get in front of the
camera like that, but you were just the person that
was on my heart for it, and so yeah, that's
pretty much how my process looks.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Okay, I love that. So you started the community Black
Girls and Art Spaces in twenty twenty two. What inspired
you to create this space for black women and why
was it important.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
To you In twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
April twenty twenty two, I made my big girl move
to Dallas, Texas. I'm originally from Columbia, South Carolina, and
when I got here, I was so excited that first week,
and then the second week it got really lonely and quiet,
and I was like, whoa wait a minute, now.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
I did in mine up for this, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
And I was used to having community, like I had
a lot of great community growing up, and then going
to an HBCU, I felt so surrounded by love and
so connected to love twenty four to seven, and so
this was different for me. But I just remember going
into these museums and galleries in Dallas for the first.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Time and being so anxious because I didn't know how
people would respond to me.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
You know. I had gotten used to going to art galleries,
art museums in my hometown, and so I'm like, Okay,
I'm used to this, I'm cool, but a new city, I.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Don't know what it's going to give. And I'm in Texas,
you know, so I don't know what it's going to give.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I'm so grateful because that second week here, I was
able to attend a Crown Mag event, and that crowd
Mag event truly connected me to some amazing people in Dallas.
I met so many black women who were also passionate
about the arts, who were ready to hold my hand,
were ready to open doors for me, And so I'm
(11:21):
super grateful to say that. Like when I got here,
I was really able to find my community quickly, and
I'm still continuing that journey, of course.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Because life moves, people get busy.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
But yeah, I wanted to start Black girls in art
spaces because I'm like, if I felt this way, I
know other people feel this way. I know there's other
women out there who are nervous about entering the arts
because it's so white, male dominated, because it's so pretentious,
and so yeah, I wanted to create this community because
I knew we needed a space to embrace each other
(11:55):
to connect with each other, but also the space to
champion and highlight black art artistry as a whole, because honestly,
until twenty twenty, I didn't know that museums were showcasing
black work. I didn't realize that until my visit to
my hometown museum. They were showcasing Kwame Blackwait's Black Is
Beautiful exhibition, and that started something for me, you know,
(12:16):
And so I just wanted to do something to make
sure that other black people out here knew that this exists.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
There is space for us in.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
These institutions, and there's still so much work to be done,
but when it is being showcased, when it is there,
when the artists are there, let's show up for them,
Let's support them, Let's let them know that we see
them and that we're here for them. And so yeah,
I've been super grateful, super blessed for this community and
it grows every single day.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
But that's really why I started.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Gotcha. So you're talking a lot about visibility and making
space as a black artist. What was one challenge that
you had to overcome being an artist and how did
you overcome it?
Speaker 4 (12:56):
One?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I would say, for me, a very consistent challenge, and
a challenge that I still face was just feeling very othered.
I never necessarily wanted to just be looked at as
a black artist, Like I want people to look at
me and just see an artist.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I do create work that highlights the black experience, and
I'm super proud of that.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
But I feel like, especially coming.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
From an HBCU, people focus more on our intersections than
who we are as a whole. And so I feel
like when I created this community Black girls and arts spaces,
it was like the first time we could really come
together in these spaces and be like, oh, yeah, I'm
an artist, Oh yeah, I do this, I do that,
and it's just like that's it. And so I would say, yeah,
(13:46):
just being looked at as just that black artist that
went to an HBCU was really a challenge for me,
and so I wanted to get away from that, and
I knew the only way to do that was to
get in community with other black women creators.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
How do you navigate the professional art industry as a
black woman?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Oh goodness, I would say that a lot of it
is setting your boundaries and making your boundaries very clear,
and as we all know, that is not easy, especially
me being someone who comes from not having an art background.
I'm like entering this space where I wouldn't say I'm
self taught because I'm learning from so many different people.
(14:27):
I'm doing the research, but I've had to be very
clear about what it is that I want for myself
and what it is that I want for this community,
and if things don't aligne I have to have the
courage to get up and walk away and trust that
God has better for me. And that has definitely happened before.
There have been times where I given feedback and people
have been like, Okay, you know, like maybe next time.
(14:48):
That has to be enough because I stood up for myself,
I stood up for my community, and I wouldn't change
that for anything, because I only want to offer the
best experiences to myself and to this community garden that
I've created. And so yeah, it's really all about setting
clear boundaries and then also having community, having people that
(15:09):
you can go to to be like, hey, is this right?
Something about this doesn't feel right? Is this how things
are supposed to go?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
You know?
Speaker 3 (15:16):
And not even just black women, honestly, like having a
community of people who can let you know if people
are trying to play in your face, you know, like
simply put. And so yeah, I would say it's really
just all about setting those clear boundaries and then having
your people that.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
You can go to when you are in those points
of confusion.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
More from our conversation after the break.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
What are some of those boundaries that you were talking
about that you don't let folks cross in the art space.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
It's a good question, so I would say for me,
and even just on a level, I guess I'll start
with me as an artist. There have been times where
I have worked with different brands and I've sent my
deliverables over, I've gotten the job done, and then they
send me back like final edits, and it doesn't align
with who I am. It doesn't feel like Casey, it
(16:16):
doesn't sound like Casey. And I have to be like, Okay, look,
you reached out to me because you wanted me to
present who I was to your community, and I'm excited
to do that, but we're gonna have to make these
changes if we're going to execute that. And so I
feel like it's the same way with black girls in
art spaces. It's like, if there is something that you're
recommending for my group or for my community, that doesn't
(16:38):
align with who we are, that isn't aligned with the mission,
that doesn't feel safe or in alignment. I have to,
like I said, be courageous enough to be like, hey,
thank you, but no thank you, you know, and like
maybe next time. So that's really what it looks like,
like just setting boundaries wherever needed, truly, So I'm interested
(17:01):
to hear what kind of programming and activity does Black
Girls and Art Spaces create for their members?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Love that question?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
So, like I mentioned a little bit earlier, a huge
part of our mission is to champion black artistry and
black stories. So a lot of the programming that we
do is in collaboration with different institutions, different art spaces.
And there is a show that is centering a black
artist in their work, we want to be there, we
want to have conversation around it, we want to meet
(17:30):
the artists, we want to meet the curator. So we
have a lot of guided tours and we've honestly been
super blessed by the different institutions that we've worked with.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
They've offered us some really great experiences.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Like curator talks, bringing different artists in who've surprised the
groups giving us different resources, like exhibition catalogs, which are
the coffee table books of all of the works tope
bags just like they really treat.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Us pretty nicely, I must say.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
But then also we do a lot of workshops because
it's also important for us to not only tap into
other people's creativity but into our own. And so we've
done like bookmaking and collaging workshops. And yeah, like we're
still growing what our programming would look like, but right
now it's a lot of getting together going to different
(18:18):
art events, and not just in museums and galleries, but
even performing arts centers. We champion dance, we champion theater.
We want to be involved in every bit and piece
of the arts. And so yeah, that's what it looks
like right now.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I love that sounds like so much fun. I would
love to see it. That's so needed. It makes a
world of a difference when you have other people around
you to see the same thing and to experience the
same thing.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I'm curious to know what kind of comments and feedback
do you hear from people once you've told them that
you work in art.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I haven't dealt with a ton of pushback on this
choice to be in the arts space. So I feel
like it's been mostly support and I'm super grateful to
say that. But I feel like even just in this
season alone, I've had a lot of black women pouring
into me and who see what I'm doing, who will
just reach out and be like, Hey, I.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Really love what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
I don't have a background in the arts, but I
would love to learn more and I would love to
be a part of this thing. And it just feels
really good to be able to say I don't have
a background in art either, but you can still do this.
So I would say like most of the feedback is
pretty positive, and it's allowing me to have those conversations
that can jump start someone else's career and faith in
(19:37):
creating a career in the arts.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
So glad to hear that you've experienced so much positivity
around your work, because the narrative around black folks who
want to pursue arts and arts education in college is
often riddled with just negativity or like a taboo almost,
And it's just beautiful to see it a living embodiment
(20:01):
of who you are and that it's okay to be
in the art world and do what you do. Did
you ever feel doubtful about making a living off of art?
How did you navigate these moments and push through?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Oh my gosh, Yes, absolutely, I would say I'm still navigating.
I'm not going to sit here and say I have
it all figured out. I am currently in a very
stretching sort of season, so I'm definitely figuring out a
lot right now. But I would say, like going back
to just the importance of community, it's just been important
(20:37):
for me to not try to navigate this alone, to
let people know what I need help, to let people
know when I have questions, to let people know when
I'm confused about where I'm at and I'm confused about
where I'm going.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
And then of course also for me, it's important to
just pray about it.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
I pray, I write, I take document of what I'm
going through because I love to look back and be like,
God brought me through this, my community brought me through this,
and in the future it's just going to be nice
to be like, and I can get through this whatever
that next thing will be like, I can get through
this thing again, you know.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
So I definitely have my moments of.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Doubt, but I'm feeling more in alignment with this vision
every single day.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I love that, Casey, what are some occupations in the
art space that you didn't learn about until you fully
immerse yourself into the field.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Okay, so I kind of want to call out one
of my favorite.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Careers that I learned about through a black woman.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Actually, there is a black woman interpretator at the High
Museum Art in Atlanta, and I don't know why it
never dawned on me that, oh, when you go into
a museum space, there's someone who actually writes out those
descriptions of the artwork. But meeting her and just engaging
with someone who was so passionate about language around works
(21:58):
was so special for me because I feel like a
lot of people who go into art spaces, whether you're
super familiar with the arts or not, that can be
the thing that makes or breaks a piece for some people,
you know, who don't know how to dig deeper or
who are afraid to dig deeper with how they feel
about a piece. And so I would say meeting her
(22:19):
learning about the interpreter job was super special for me,
And that's probably been my favorite career that I've recently
sort of been able to learn about.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I didn't think of that position at all. I love
that you brought that up, because it can if I'm
reading a passage and it's connecting with me and my experience,
it's connecting. But if it doesn't, I would have never
thought that that was a job. So thank you for
bringing that up. How has social media supported your artistry
and helped you expand your business?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Oh my gosh, that such a love hate relationship with
social media because honestly.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Like.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
We all know, social media can be so journey, but
there's also a lot of love on social media, and
I think since starting Black Girls in Art Spaces, I've
realized that more than ever. But even when I was
just doing visual storytelling, my photography, my filmmaking, the black
community does not play about the creators like they show up,
(23:19):
they show out like. There have been so many times
where oh my gosh, people have shared my work and
it's gotten me to an opportunity that I never thought
I could have. And so I would say like social
media has been extremely helpful in my process. I can't
imagine where a lot of us black creators would be
without it, without having a space to be like, Hey,
(23:42):
this is what I'm working on. I would really love
your support. If you like it, consider you know, investing,
if not, just share, you know, Like, I can't imagine
what this journey would be like without social media. So
I definitely I'm grateful for social media. Even in college,
Like when I had first started sharing my work, that
was how a lot of people on campus even learn
about what I was doing, you know, because unless people
(24:02):
see you doing it, they don't know that you're doing it,
and so social media sort of just sheds light on
these amazing different projects that are going on all around
us in the community.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
And so yeah, I've been super grateful for the community
that I've.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Gained through social media and the support that I gained
through social media.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
What are some misconceptions about entering your medium?
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Ooh, this is such a good question.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I would say the number one misconception about entering the
medium of photography would be that there are a lot
of people who feel that photography is not really creating
because you're capturing something and you're not actually physically drawing
it out or painting it.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
But there is a lot of.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Thought and research that goes into photography and so I
feel like some people don't think photography is creative enough.
But photography can be a very heavy experience, you know,
depending on how much you're willing to put into it.
That's probably the number one misconception. But then of course,
(25:10):
also that you're gonna be broke, and that you know
that you're you're gonna be struggling, and you're not gonna
have it on your table, You're not gonna have a
roof over your head. Those are misconceptions as well, just
about artists in general. But photography, you know, everybody needs photos.
Everybody wants their event captured, Everybody wants their anniversary captured,
(25:32):
Everybody wants this captured, that captured. Like look at social media,
we see photos all day. So photography is super important
and I think that it's definitely possible to make a
living off of it, right.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I think the first thought in entertainment has a big
play in this. But my first thought is just the
black artists coming back to like family Reunion, it's you
and your your fake job or you and your struggling life,
and like Hollywood just depicts artists as struggling all the time,
and so when you're seeing it you automatically think, well,
(26:07):
let me not do that career because they're always the
broke cousin or the broke family member. But it's like
changing that narrative is very important. Is there a glamorization
of the starving artist lifestyle in your opinion.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
In the media.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Absolutely. I mean we see it in movies and TV
shows all the time. It's just it's not that cute.
It's not that cute. Nobody wants to be out here
taking pictures without food on their table.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
You know what I mean. So, yeah, there's definitely a
glamorization of the struggling artist for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
More from our conversation after the break.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
So studies show that work by black American women comprises
one point five percent of acquisition at thirty one US
art museums. And your opinion, what is the best way
to support black female artists today?
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Number one, I.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Would say, when you see their work being showcased in
a museum, in a gallery, in an event space, and
a coffee shop, wherever, in a church, wherever you see
black women's work being showcased, show up and let them
know that you see them. Also, invest in art, support artists,
go to art markets, little shameless plug here, but Black
(27:22):
Girls and Arts Spaces has their first maker's market coming
up and so have events around that. If you know
you feel in your community there's a lot of artists
who aren't being supported, do something about it, creating event
around it, support them on social media, love on them
in the dms, respectfully, let them know that you see them,
and yeah, just continue to show up and support in
(27:43):
any way that you can. If you see that a
black woman has creative piece on social media and you
can do a quick share and do it, you just
never know whose page it might land on and what
opportunity that could create for that person.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
How do you manage work life balance as an artist
and what are some of the difficulties that you have
had to work through.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
So at the beginning of the year, I started therapy
and one thing that my therapist told me was that
I was not made for balance.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
I was made for harmony.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
So I have recently been operating out of the place
of seeking harmony over balance because I am not a
balanced girl. I cannot give fifty here fifty there for me.
It's like, Okay, I know I said I was going
to do this today, but if I need to give
this other thing a little bit more time to feel
at peace with myself, to feel like I actually accomplished
(28:37):
something today.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
I need to do that.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
So I feel like when I focus more on that harmony,
I'm able to navigate through this life experience a lot
smoother and a lot more gracefully.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Like I feel like when.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I was focused on the balance of things, I would
get so upset with myself. I would get so down
on myself because I'm like, Casey, you said you're gonna
do this, but you you did this instead. But it's
like I needed to do that thing set and that's okay,
So yeah, I would say, right now, it's just allowing
myself to flow.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Of course, still having.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Some sort of structure, like especially in the morning and
night that has been extremely vital for me to get
through my weeks, like having a strong morning routine, having
a strong night routine. But throughout the day, I have
my top three things that I need to get done,
and everything else, I just let it flow.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
I love the harmony. Shout out to your therapist for that.
That is amazing. Pro tip for sure. We talked earlier
about social media. How do you set boundaries? Around the
social media space.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
This is such a great question for me because I
have had to ask myself this so many times since
starting Black Girls in Art Spaces. I am the founder,
but I'm also the director, So I am over all
things social media right now, and honestly, there are some
days when I do not want it to happen. There
are some days when I do not want to on
(30:00):
a DM. There are days when I don't want to
respond to emails, comments, and I don't. Simply put, I
give myself the space to rest when I need to rest,
and I think that that's also allowed me to show
up so much better on social media for my community.
As far as like my personal social media, I put
(30:20):
no pressure on that at all because that's just me.
But when it comes to cultivating and nurturing a community,
you do have to set some parameters for yourself, and
so sometimes I'll give myself like a goal like reply
to like ten comments today, reply to five vms today,
reply to this amount of emails today, and.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Then save the rest of it tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
And it's allowed me to, like I said before, have
a bit more peace of mind because I deserve a
peace of mind. I deserve to be comfortable and confident
in how I move throughout the week, and when I
have too many tabs open in my head, I can't
regard things how they deserve to be regarded.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
So yeah, I would say this year, I've definitely had.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
To learn how to be like Okay, this comment has
only been saying here for two hours.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
They can't wait till tomorrow for you to reply.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
To it, right. I love that. So tell me who
are some contemporary Black female artists that you'd like to highlight?
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Oh my gosh, that's such a great question.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
So Number one my favorite black women's photographer, my favorite
photographer in general, Fina Lawson.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
She is absolutely incredible.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
She captures the black experience in such a beautiful.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Vibrant way.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
The pieces can be very heavy, but what I love
so much about her work is that she actually doesn't
use descriptions when she's showcasing in galleries and museums. She
unlets you look at the piece and sort of like
and interpret it for yourself, which I think is so different,
you know, especially coming from a black woman, and I
(32:06):
feel like for us sometimes we feel the need to
like explain what this thing is, but her to be
like I know what it meant, I know how it
made me feel, and I'm just put it up here
and let y'all figure it out for yourselves. Like, I
think that's so interesting to me and also inspiring. Another
one Solange knows. I love Solange, I love Slane. I
(32:28):
genuinely am just so inspired by her crap as a whole.
I love how she's not afraid to dig into different mediums.
I feel like, for a while in my journey, I
was so quick to box myself in. And I've been
telling people like this season is like my and season
like I'm figuring out all my ants and I'm walking
(32:49):
proudly and boldly in those ants. I'm not just a photographer,
I'm not just a concentreator. I'm not just a founder.
There's more to me, And so just watching her journey
through the arts and through creative expression has been beyond inspirational.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
I also love her.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Music, of course, but yeah, I really want to shout
out being a Loston and Solange, because those are two
artists that I feel have really encouraged me just from
watching them.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yes, once Solange solo, you know her like that, once
she made her glass slare, I said take my money,
take it, all of it. Anything. I have my net
worth habit. I love both of those artists. I love
how you talked about their effect on your life, So
I love that. Do you have a personal network of artists?
(33:38):
How do they support you and show up for you?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Yes, Black Girls and Arts Spaces is filled with artists
and I love it.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
I love it, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
I'm on meetings all day, every day throughout the week,
talking to artists all over the world, black women, artists
all over the world, who want us to come out
to their shows, who want to share their works with
us on social media. Literally, like that, that's my field
right now, is where I'm at. And it's just been
super beautiful and again, like I know, I keep saying inspiring,
(34:09):
but truly, I'm just so inspired by my community, just
being in connection with all of these amazing women who
are making the decision to step out of what's normal,
was conventional and say I want to be an artist,
this is who I am, and like really going after it,
and so yeah, I feel extremely supported by them, and
of course I'm always just as excited to support them
(34:32):
in returns.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yes, yes, what advice would you give to young artists
exploring the art industry.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Oh, my gosh, find your community. Find your community. Don't
be afraid to not know the answers to things. Don't
feel the need to compromise who you are, don't feel
the need to assimilate. Be yourself. The art world needs
who you are are. There's so many copy and paste,
(35:03):
I would say, in the arts, and it's always so
refreshing to come into contact with people who are just
so proudly and boldly themselves.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Yeah, that's my piece of advice.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Be who you are, because the arts world needs people
who are not afraid to be themselves.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Can you describe the best way to obtain a mentor
in the space?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Ooh, so, I would say mentorship for me, being someone
who's more institution adjacent, as one of my mentors actually said,
you know, it's really been from going to different art events,
going to artists talks, going to curry your talks, showing
(35:49):
up on opening night, closing night, and meeting people, chatting
with people, and just you know, being transparent about who
you are, what you're working towards, and you know, really
just from those connections and letting it be something very organic.
For me personally, I'm just all about like organic relationships
because whoever my mentor is, like, I want them to
be someone who I feel comfortable with in my vulnerability.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
And so I.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Would definitely just say again, be who you are, because
you can only find someone who aligns with you when
you were your truest self. And also, just don't be
afraid to reach out. Don't be afraid to reach out.
Don't be afraid to tell someone that there's something that
they're doing that excites you, that inspired you that you
(36:33):
would love to learn more about, because people need to
hear it. People need to know sometimes that there are
people who are inspired by what they're doing. And so yeah,
I would say, like, show up as your full self.
But also don't be afraid to reach out, and when
you do, let it be organic. Don't be so quick
(36:54):
to be like, hey, I want you to be my mentor. No,
let it grow into that.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Definitely some gen being dropped for sure. I'm curious to
know how can someone start a Black Girls an Art
Spaces chapter in their area.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Oh my gosh, all you have to do is reach
out to our email address, Black Girls in Our Spaces
at gmail dot com and from there I would get
on a call with them and give them some time
to ask me any questions that they have, Please reach out,
Please reach out. But yeah, like I would get on
a meeting with them and we would just talk through
(37:29):
the process and you know, if things align, if they
feel ready, then we just go from there.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Okay, Well, I hope that everyone reaches out to you,
that everyone around the world starts a chapter. Do you
have any recommended podcasts or social media pages that we
should look into to deepen our knowledge on this topic?
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Ooh absolutely, So these are my top artsy black podcasts
that I think everyone should happen into. The Institute of
Black Imagination, Shade Home Impressions, and Studio Noise Black Art podcasts.
Those are my recommendations. And then as far as pages,
(38:10):
my gosh, there's so many.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
There's so many.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
There's so many great pages that you can follow. But
I will say, if you do follow black Girls in
Art Spaces, we post share so many dope individuals every day,
so it's truly a great place to start with getting
connected to the arts.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
So basically, follow black Girls in our Spaces.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Black girls and art spaces and We'll put you on.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Right okay, soksee where can we keep up with you?
What are your social media handles and website?
Speaker 3 (38:41):
So my personal Instagram and TikTok are at KC Meriweather Hawkins.
That's kac I M E R R I w E
t h E r h A w U k I
n S. And the Black Girls in Art Spaces TikTok
and Instagram are at black Girls and art Spaces, and
(39:02):
then our website is black Girls and Ourspaces dot info.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Lovely well, thank you so much, Casey for taking the
time to talk with me. I enjoyed learning so much
from you and just so excited to see the progression
of Black girls in our spaces and your personal work
as well.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
This has truly been in honor of a super huge
fan of therapy for Black Girls, and you have been incredible.
So thank you Jana so much for speaking with me
today and making me feel comfortable to share my journey.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Oh thanks. I want to thank Casey once again for
joining us for this episode. Class is over for now,
but before we dismiss, take the following notes from my
conversation with Casey. Home with you. My dream career is
right in front of me, and no one can stop
me from securing it. I will be able to make
(39:53):
a living off of the things I am passionate about.
My art will be seen by more eyes than I
can can possibly conceptualize. To learn more about the work
Casey is doing, or to do more research on this topic,
be sure to visit Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash tbgu.
This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and
(40:17):
Zaria Taylor. Editing is by Dennison L.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Brawford.
Congratulations, you've been accepted into the inaugural class of Therapy
for Black Girls University. Whether you're packing for a new
year on campus, thinking through your gap year, enrolling in
a community college, or grabbing your souls for graduation, tpgu
is here to help you thrive at this stage of
your life and beyond.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
More from our conversation after the break.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
If you're an art major, the question of what are
you going to do with your degree is likely all
too familiar. You also may have experienced feelings of uncertainty
and doubt, wondering if you can truly make a living
in the art space. Though none of us can predict
the future, it can be empowering to see images of
Black women who are already succeeding in the arts. An
(01:00):
example of that is today's guests Casey Meriwether Hawkins. Casey
is a Dallas based visual storyteller and founder of Black
Girls and Art Spaces. Black Girls and Art Spaces was
launched in July of twenty twenty two with the mission
of holding a digital and in real life space for
Black women to nurture their creativity as well as champion
(01:22):
black artistry and black stories. She's been blessed to work
alongside brands like Beats by Dre, Adobe, Nike, Apple, and more.
In our conversation today, we explore the obstacles faced by
black women in the art industry, the importance of having
a strong network, and how simply being yourself can be
(01:43):
the first step in securing your dream art job. Here's
our conversation. So, Casey, please tell us what school did
you attend and why did you select this school?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I attended to Speaking University, and I I chose to
See University because originally I wanted to be a veterinarian
and to see he is the only HBCU with the
VET school.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
We produced eighty percent of black vets in the world,
and so I wanted to be a part of that.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So what is your earliest memory that affirmed you as
an artist and how does that relate to the work
that you do today.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Well, I would say that art was always a part
of my tapestry. I was in a lot of arts
programs growing up.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
My parents had.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Me in dance, in theater, we did pottery weekends, I painted,
I even sang, even though I cannot sing at all.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
And so I would say, like my earliest memories.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Just taking me back to my childhood as a whole,
and we're just remembering that super creative little girl that
I was, even when it came down to school projects,
like if I was able to make a poster in
science class, I was so excited to be able to
go through that creative process, and so I was always
an artsy little girl.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So take me back to Tuski University. Did you graduate
with a degree in veterinary medicine? Did you do art
in college? I'm curious to hear more about that journey.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, yeah, and I always love that question. I have
an animal science degree. I did finish the program, and
I always like to let people know like I have
zero regrets.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I loved my program, I loved my university.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
And I was able to take a lot away from
that program. I learned how to be in spaces with
people who thought differently than me, who came from different backgrounds,
different cultures. I got to learn a lot about the
land and our connection as black people to our land
and rekindling that connection. And yeah, I did internships in
animal research. But along that path, I sort of started
(03:54):
to feel like an emptiness and I wasn't feeling super
connected to the work in the same way that I
was when I had first entered to Skeegee, and.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
So God really just called me to my camera.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I had always had cameras growing up, but one day
I was like, I just want to pick up my
camera and I want to just document the day with
my friends, and so I remember we went to this
super cute arts festival that was happening in the city,
and I just documented that whole experience and really fell
in love with championing black people through my lens. And
(04:27):
from there, I really just started to take my camera everywhere.
I started doing photo shoots, and I started my photography business.
And so yeah, I'm super grateful for my experience at
to Skeigee and just being surrounded by so many beautiful
black people who come from different backgrounds, who look different,
who dress differently, who think differently, and being able to
(04:50):
just champion that through my lens.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yes, it's so important to see that in college, especially
like in the formative years of who you are, and
to see that representation and know that you can be
this person and it's okay because we're all different. So
I love that I'm curious to know if you felt
supported by that community, you're family, and your friends while
you were exploring your art career.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Oh my goodness, I was beyond supported. Like I always
tell people, if it wasn't for my Tuskegee community, I
would not be where I am today. As soon as
I started putting out the flyers, as soon as I
started sharing my work, the love just it was an
overflow of love and support. People were sharing my work
here and there, people were booking me, And yeah, I
(05:34):
felt extremely supported by Tuskegee as a whole. But then
also my friends, they were just they were there. They
were there to listen to me, they were there to
pray for me, they were there to you know, sit
in the car with me when I needed is to
cry because I didn't know exactly what path I was
going to take with this. And yeah, my family also
was extremely supportive. It definitely took some time. I had
(05:56):
been holding on to that dream of being a VET
for so long, and I had spoken it for so
long that when I came out of the woodworks, hey y'all,
I don't think I want Tom fievet anymore. I actually
kind of want to explore photography. People were like, girl,
what like and do what with that? But after a
while my parents really started to see that there was
a genuine gift there and a genuine passion, And yeah,
(06:20):
I felt supported ever since.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
What did some of the first shoots look?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Like?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
What camera were you using?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
What kind of tools?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Oh? My gosh, you're such great question. So yeah, I
will never forget. My first official paide shoot was actually
for one of my childhood friends who went to my university.
She was graduating. Her photographer ended up having some issues
and had to leave her shoe early, and she was like, Casey,
I know you just started photography, but like, would you
(06:51):
be willing to be like the second half of my shoe?
And I definitely freaked out. I had to sit there
for like fifteen minutes, and I was just like, God.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Should I Should I take this risk? This is my girl.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I don't want to her big day, you know. But
I went for it and it actually turned out pretty nice,
and so I think it was so beautiful having her
be the person who pulled me into that experience, because
it felt very full circle. She had been such a
supporter of a lot of the things I had done
in my life, and so for that to be sort
of like the inception of my photography business, I think
(07:21):
was super special. But yeah, it really started out as
graduation shoots. So you know, I started putting out flyers
and saying like, hey, y'all like book me. You know
how that goes? And from there it just became a thing.
And in that process, I really learned that I wanted
to explore more of the art side of photography, and
(07:42):
so there was a point where I started to pivot
and take a break from that, and I really got
to explore that. During COVID and during the shutdown, I
was able to kind of just go outside and be
with my friends and have very intimate moments to just
capture them in different creative ways. But yeah, it really
all started with to speeky graduation photo shoots.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
And usually that's how it starts. The best of the
best are in your classrooms. One of my close friends
did my gradue and he was learning how to do
photography and he's talented, and so it's literally right on
our campus, right in our friend groups. So glad to
hear that. Do you have a routine for creating? Do
(08:26):
you have a favorite time of the day that you
like to take pictures, like walk me through that.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, so I actually do have a routine, but the
routine also has like its as and blow so it
can change. But I would say like, primarily my foundation
looks like starting with music. I don't know what it
is about music that just feels me, but music is
something that just really gets me sort of like ready
(08:55):
to get out and create something. So I start with music,
and then I also go into prayer a lot, because
whatever I create, I just wanted.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
To be something meaningful, something fruitful.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I always want to make it my best for that moment,
and so I start there. And then I do research
sometimes and that doesn't just look like going online and
looking at past photographs from other amazing photographers, but sometimes
it can be just going outside, going to the museum,
going to a gallery space, and just being around art
from different mediums.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
And then I also like to create concept boards, like
I love a vision board.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I love something that can kind of guide me through
the process on the day of the shoot. And then
of course, like I start reaching out to people, and
my favorite people to shoot with are my friends. I'm
quick to be like, hey, girl, I had this idea.
I know you don't really get in front of the
camera like that, but you were just the person that
was on my heart for it, and so yeah, that's
pretty much how my process looks.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Okay, I love that. So you started the community Black
Girls and Art Spaces in twenty twenty two. What inspired
you to create this space for black women and why
was it important.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
To you In twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
April twenty twenty two, I made my big girl move
to Dallas, Texas. I'm originally from Columbia, South Carolina, and
when I got here, I was so excited that first week,
and then the second week it got really lonely and quiet,
and I was like, whoa wait a minute, now.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
I did in mine up for this, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
And I was used to having community, like I had
a lot of great community growing up, and then going
to an HBCU, I felt so surrounded by love and
so connected to love twenty four to seven, and so
this was different for me. But I just remember going
into these museums and galleries in Dallas for the first.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Time and being so anxious because I didn't know how
people would respond to me.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
You know. I had gotten used to going to art galleries,
art museums in my hometown, and so I'm like, Okay,
I'm used to this, I'm cool, but a new city, I.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Don't know what it's going to give. And I'm in Texas,
you know, so I don't know what it's going to give.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I'm so grateful because that second week here, I was
able to attend a Crown Mag event, and that crowd
Mag event truly connected me to some amazing people in Dallas.
I met so many black women who were also passionate
about the arts, who were ready to hold my hand,
were ready to open doors for me, And so I'm
(11:21):
super grateful to say that. Like when I got here,
I was really able to find my community quickly, and
I'm still continuing that journey, of course.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Because life moves, people get busy.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
But yeah, I wanted to start Black girls in art
spaces because I'm like, if I felt this way, I
know other people feel this way. I know there's other
women out there who are nervous about entering the arts
because it's so white, male dominated, because it's so pretentious,
and so yeah, I wanted to create this community because
I knew we needed a space to embrace each other
(11:55):
to connect with each other, but also the space to
champion and highlight black art artistry as a whole, because honestly,
until twenty twenty, I didn't know that museums were showcasing
black work. I didn't realize that until my visit to
my hometown museum. They were showcasing Kwame Blackwait's Black Is
Beautiful exhibition, and that started something for me, you know,
(12:16):
And so I just wanted to do something to make
sure that other black people out here knew that this exists.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
There is space for us in.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
These institutions, and there's still so much work to be done,
but when it is being showcased, when it is there,
when the artists are there, let's show up for them,
Let's support them, Let's let them know that we see
them and that we're here for them. And so yeah,
I've been super grateful, super blessed for this community and
it grows every single day.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
But that's really why I started.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Gotcha. So you're talking a lot about visibility and making
space as a black artist. What was one challenge that
you had to overcome being an artist and how did
you overcome it?
Speaker 4 (12:56):
One?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I would say, for me, a very consistent challenge, and
a challenge that I still face was just feeling very othered.
I never necessarily wanted to just be looked at as
a black artist, Like I want people to look at
me and just see an artist.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I do create work that highlights the black experience, and
I'm super proud of that.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
But I feel like, especially coming.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
From an HBCU, people focus more on our intersections than
who we are as a whole. And so I feel
like when I created this community Black girls and arts spaces,
it was like the first time we could really come
together in these spaces and be like, oh, yeah, I'm
an artist, Oh yeah, I do this, I do that,
and it's just like that's it. And so I would say, yeah,
(13:46):
just being looked at as just that black artist that
went to an HBCU was really a challenge for me,
and so I wanted to get away from that, and
I knew the only way to do that was to
get in community with other black women creators.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
How do you navigate the professional art industry as a
black woman?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Oh goodness, I would say that a lot of it
is setting your boundaries and making your boundaries very clear,
and as we all know, that is not easy, especially
me being someone who comes from not having an art background.
I'm like entering this space where I wouldn't say I'm
self taught because I'm learning from so many different people.
(14:27):
I'm doing the research, but I've had to be very
clear about what it is that I want for myself
and what it is that I want for this community,
and if things don't aligne I have to have the
courage to get up and walk away and trust that
God has better for me. And that has definitely happened before.
There have been times where I given feedback and people
have been like, Okay, you know, like maybe next time.
(14:48):
That has to be enough because I stood up for myself,
I stood up for my community, and I wouldn't change
that for anything, because I only want to offer the
best experiences to myself and to this community garden that
I've created. And so yeah, it's really all about setting
clear boundaries and then also having community, having people that
(15:09):
you can go to to be like, hey, is this right?
Something about this doesn't feel right? Is this how things
are supposed to go?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
You know?
Speaker 3 (15:16):
And not even just black women, honestly, like having a
community of people who can let you know if people
are trying to play in your face, you know, like
simply put. And so yeah, I would say it's really
just all about setting those clear boundaries and then having
your people that.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
You can go to when you are in those points
of confusion.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
More from our conversation after the break.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
What are some of those boundaries that you were talking
about that you don't let folks cross in the art space.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
It's a good question, so I would say for me,
and even just on a level, I guess I'll start
with me as an artist. There have been times where
I have worked with different brands and I've sent my
deliverables over, I've gotten the job done, and then they
send me back like final edits, and it doesn't align
with who I am. It doesn't feel like Casey, it
(16:16):
doesn't sound like Casey. And I have to be like, Okay, look,
you reached out to me because you wanted me to
present who I was to your community, and I'm excited
to do that, but we're gonna have to make these
changes if we're going to execute that. And so I
feel like it's the same way with black girls in
art spaces. It's like, if there is something that you're
recommending for my group or for my community, that doesn't
(16:38):
align with who we are, that isn't aligned with the mission,
that doesn't feel safe or in alignment. I have to,
like I said, be courageous enough to be like, hey,
thank you, but no thank you, you know, and like
maybe next time. So that's really what it looks like,
like just setting boundaries wherever needed, truly, So I'm interested
(17:01):
to hear what kind of programming and activity does Black
Girls and Art Spaces create for their members?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Love that question?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
So, like I mentioned a little bit earlier, a huge
part of our mission is to champion black artistry and
black stories. So a lot of the programming that we
do is in collaboration with different institutions, different art spaces.
And there is a show that is centering a black
artist in their work, we want to be there, we
want to have conversation around it, we want to meet
(17:30):
the artists, we want to meet the curator. So we
have a lot of guided tours and we've honestly been
super blessed by the different institutions that we've worked with.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
They've offered us some really great experiences.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Like curator talks, bringing different artists in who've surprised the
groups giving us different resources, like exhibition catalogs, which are
the coffee table books of all of the works tope
bags just like they really treat.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Us pretty nicely, I must say.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
But then also we do a lot of workshops because
it's also important for us to not only tap into
other people's creativity but into our own. And so we've
done like bookmaking and collaging workshops. And yeah, like we're
still growing what our programming would look like, but right
now it's a lot of getting together going to different
(18:18):
art events, and not just in museums and galleries, but
even performing arts centers. We champion dance, we champion theater.
We want to be involved in every bit and piece
of the arts. And so yeah, that's what it looks
like right now.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I love that sounds like so much fun. I would
love to see it. That's so needed. It makes a
world of a difference when you have other people around
you to see the same thing and to experience the
same thing.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I'm curious to know what kind of comments and feedback
do you hear from people once you've told them that
you work in art.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I haven't dealt with a ton of pushback on this
choice to be in the arts space. So I feel
like it's been mostly support and I'm super grateful to
say that. But I feel like even just in this
season alone, I've had a lot of black women pouring
into me and who see what I'm doing, who will
just reach out and be like, Hey, I.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Really love what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
I don't have a background in the arts, but I
would love to learn more and I would love to
be a part of this thing. And it just feels
really good to be able to say I don't have
a background in art either, but you can still do this.
So I would say like most of the feedback is
pretty positive, and it's allowing me to have those conversations
that can jump start someone else's career and faith in
(19:37):
creating a career in the arts.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
So glad to hear that you've experienced so much positivity
around your work, because the narrative around black folks who
want to pursue arts and arts education in college is
often riddled with just negativity or like a taboo almost,
And it's just beautiful to see it a living embodiment
(20:01):
of who you are and that it's okay to be
in the art world and do what you do. Did
you ever feel doubtful about making a living off of art?
How did you navigate these moments and push through?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Oh my gosh, Yes, absolutely, I would say I'm still navigating.
I'm not going to sit here and say I have
it all figured out. I am currently in a very
stretching sort of season, so I'm definitely figuring out a
lot right now. But I would say, like going back
to just the importance of community, it's just been important
(20:37):
for me to not try to navigate this alone, to
let people know what I need help, to let people
know when I have questions, to let people know when
I'm confused about where I'm at and I'm confused about
where I'm going.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
And then of course also for me, it's important to
just pray about it.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
I pray, I write, I take document of what I'm
going through because I love to look back and be like,
God brought me through this, my community brought me through this,
and in the future it's just going to be nice
to be like, and I can get through this whatever
that next thing will be like, I can get through
this thing again, you know.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
So I definitely have my moments of.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Doubt, but I'm feeling more in alignment with this vision
every single day.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I love that, Casey, what are some occupations in the
art space that you didn't learn about until you fully
immerse yourself into the field.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Okay, so I kind of want to call out one
of my favorite.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Careers that I learned about through a black woman.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Actually, there is a black woman interpretator at the High
Museum Art in Atlanta, and I don't know why it
never dawned on me that, oh, when you go into
a museum space, there's someone who actually writes out those
descriptions of the artwork. But meeting her and just engaging
with someone who was so passionate about language around works
(21:58):
was so special for me because I feel like a
lot of people who go into art spaces, whether you're
super familiar with the arts or not, that can be
the thing that makes or breaks a piece for some people,
you know, who don't know how to dig deeper or
who are afraid to dig deeper with how they feel
about a piece. And so I would say meeting her
(22:19):
learning about the interpreter job was super special for me,
And that's probably been my favorite career that I've recently
sort of been able to learn about.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I didn't think of that position at all. I love
that you brought that up, because it can if I'm
reading a passage and it's connecting with me and my experience,
it's connecting. But if it doesn't, I would have never
thought that that was a job. So thank you for
bringing that up. How has social media supported your artistry
and helped you expand your business?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Oh my gosh, that such a love hate relationship with
social media because honestly.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Like.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
We all know, social media can be so journey, but
there's also a lot of love on social media, and
I think since starting Black Girls in Art Spaces, I've
realized that more than ever. But even when I was
just doing visual storytelling, my photography, my filmmaking, the black
community does not play about the creators like they show up,
(23:19):
they show out like. There have been so many times
where oh my gosh, people have shared my work and
it's gotten me to an opportunity that I never thought
I could have. And so I would say like social
media has been extremely helpful in my process. I can't
imagine where a lot of us black creators would be
without it, without having a space to be like, Hey,
(23:42):
this is what I'm working on. I would really love
your support. If you like it, consider you know, investing,
if not, just share, you know, Like, I can't imagine
what this journey would be like without social media. So
I definitely I'm grateful for social media. Even in college,
Like when I had first started sharing my work, that
was how a lot of people on campus even learn
about what I was doing, you know, because unless people
(24:02):
see you doing it, they don't know that you're doing it,
and so social media sort of just sheds light on
these amazing different projects that are going on all around
us in the community.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
And so yeah, I've been super grateful for the community
that I've.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Gained through social media and the support that I gained
through social media.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
What are some misconceptions about entering your medium?
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Ooh, this is such a good question.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I would say the number one misconception about entering the
medium of photography would be that there are a lot
of people who feel that photography is not really creating
because you're capturing something and you're not actually physically drawing
it out or painting it.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
But there is a lot of.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Thought and research that goes into photography and so I
feel like some people don't think photography is creative enough.
But photography can be a very heavy experience, you know,
depending on how much you're willing to put into it.
That's probably the number one misconception. But then of course,
(25:10):
also that you're gonna be broke, and that you know
that you're you're gonna be struggling, and you're not gonna
have it on your table, You're not gonna have a
roof over your head. Those are misconceptions as well, just
about artists in general. But photography, you know, everybody needs photos.
Everybody wants their event captured, Everybody wants their anniversary captured,
(25:32):
Everybody wants this captured, that captured. Like look at social media,
we see photos all day. So photography is super important
and I think that it's definitely possible to make a
living off of it, right.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I think the first thought in entertainment has a big
play in this. But my first thought is just the
black artists coming back to like family Reunion, it's you
and your your fake job or you and your struggling life,
and like Hollywood just depicts artists as struggling all the time,
and so when you're seeing it you automatically think, well,
(26:07):
let me not do that career because they're always the
broke cousin or the broke family member. But it's like
changing that narrative is very important. Is there a glamorization
of the starving artist lifestyle in your opinion.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
In the media.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Absolutely. I mean we see it in movies and TV
shows all the time. It's just it's not that cute.
It's not that cute. Nobody wants to be out here
taking pictures without food on their table.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
You know what I mean. So, yeah, there's definitely a
glamorization of the struggling artist for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
More from our conversation after the break.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
So studies show that work by black American women comprises
one point five percent of acquisition at thirty one US
art museums. And your opinion, what is the best way
to support black female artists today?
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Number one, I.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Would say, when you see their work being showcased in
a museum, in a gallery, in an event space, and
a coffee shop, wherever, in a church, wherever you see
black women's work being showcased, show up and let them
know that you see them. Also, invest in art, support artists,
go to art markets, little shameless plug here, but Black
(27:22):
Girls and Arts Spaces has their first maker's market coming
up and so have events around that. If you know
you feel in your community there's a lot of artists
who aren't being supported, do something about it, creating event
around it, support them on social media, love on them
in the dms, respectfully, let them know that you see them,
and yeah, just continue to show up and support in
(27:43):
any way that you can. If you see that a
black woman has creative piece on social media and you
can do a quick share and do it, you just
never know whose page it might land on and what
opportunity that could create for that person.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
How do you manage work life balance as an artist
and what are some of the difficulties that you have
had to work through.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
So at the beginning of the year, I started therapy
and one thing that my therapist told me was that
I was not made for balance.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
I was made for harmony.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
So I have recently been operating out of the place
of seeking harmony over balance because I am not a
balanced girl. I cannot give fifty here fifty there for me.
It's like, Okay, I know I said I was going
to do this today, but if I need to give
this other thing a little bit more time to feel
at peace with myself, to feel like I actually accomplished
(28:37):
something today.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
I need to do that.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
So I feel like when I focus more on that harmony,
I'm able to navigate through this life experience a lot
smoother and a lot more gracefully.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Like I feel like when.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I was focused on the balance of things, I would
get so upset with myself. I would get so down
on myself because I'm like, Casey, you said you're gonna
do this, but you you did this instead. But it's
like I needed to do that thing set and that's okay,
So yeah, I would say, right now, it's just allowing
myself to flow.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Of course, still having.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Some sort of structure, like especially in the morning and
night that has been extremely vital for me to get
through my weeks, like having a strong morning routine, having
a strong night routine. But throughout the day, I have
my top three things that I need to get done,
and everything else, I just let it flow.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
I love the harmony. Shout out to your therapist for that.
That is amazing. Pro tip for sure. We talked earlier
about social media. How do you set boundaries? Around the
social media space.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
This is such a great question for me because I
have had to ask myself this so many times since
starting Black Girls in Art Spaces. I am the founder,
but I'm also the director, So I am over all
things social media right now, and honestly, there are some
days when I do not want it to happen. There
are some days when I do not want to on
(30:00):
a DM. There are days when I don't want to
respond to emails, comments, and I don't. Simply put, I
give myself the space to rest when I need to rest,
and I think that that's also allowed me to show
up so much better on social media for my community.
As far as like my personal social media, I put
(30:20):
no pressure on that at all because that's just me.
But when it comes to cultivating and nurturing a community,
you do have to set some parameters for yourself, and
so sometimes I'll give myself like a goal like reply
to like ten comments today, reply to five vms today,
reply to this amount of emails today, and.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Then save the rest of it tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
And it's allowed me to, like I said before, have
a bit more peace of mind because I deserve a
peace of mind. I deserve to be comfortable and confident
in how I move throughout the week, and when I
have too many tabs open in my head, I can't
regard things how they deserve to be regarded.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
So yeah, I would say this year, I've definitely had.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
To learn how to be like Okay, this comment has
only been saying here for two hours.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
They can't wait till tomorrow for you to reply.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
To it, right. I love that. So tell me who
are some contemporary Black female artists that you'd like to highlight?
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Oh my gosh, that's such a great question.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
So Number one my favorite black women's photographer, my favorite
photographer in general, Fina Lawson.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
She is absolutely incredible.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
She captures the black experience in such a beautiful.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Vibrant way.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
The pieces can be very heavy, but what I love
so much about her work is that she actually doesn't
use descriptions when she's showcasing in galleries and museums. She
unlets you look at the piece and sort of like
and interpret it for yourself, which I think is so different,
you know, especially coming from a black woman, and I
(32:06):
feel like for us sometimes we feel the need to
like explain what this thing is, but her to be
like I know what it meant, I know how it
made me feel, and I'm just put it up here
and let y'all figure it out for yourselves. Like, I
think that's so interesting to me and also inspiring. Another
one Solange knows. I love Solange, I love Slane. I
(32:28):
genuinely am just so inspired by her crap as a whole.
I love how she's not afraid to dig into different mediums.
I feel like, for a while in my journey, I
was so quick to box myself in. And I've been
telling people like this season is like my and season
like I'm figuring out all my ants and I'm walking
(32:49):
proudly and boldly in those ants. I'm not just a photographer,
I'm not just a concentreator. I'm not just a founder.
There's more to me, And so just watching her journey
through the arts and through creative expression has been beyond inspirational.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
I also love her.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Music, of course, but yeah, I really want to shout
out being a Loston and Solange, because those are two
artists that I feel have really encouraged me just from
watching them.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yes, once Solange solo, you know her like that, once
she made her glass slare, I said take my money,
take it, all of it. Anything. I have my net
worth habit. I love both of those artists. I love
how you talked about their effect on your life, So
I love that. Do you have a personal network of artists?
(33:38):
How do they support you and show up for you?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Yes, Black Girls and Arts Spaces is filled with artists
and I love it.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
I love it, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
I'm on meetings all day, every day throughout the week,
talking to artists all over the world, black women, artists
all over the world, who want us to come out
to their shows, who want to share their works with
us on social media. Literally, like that, that's my field
right now, is where I'm at. And it's just been
super beautiful and again, like I know, I keep saying inspiring,
(34:09):
but truly, I'm just so inspired by my community, just
being in connection with all of these amazing women who
are making the decision to step out of what's normal,
was conventional and say I want to be an artist,
this is who I am, and like really going after it,
and so yeah, I feel extremely supported by them, and
of course I'm always just as excited to support them
(34:32):
in returns.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yes, yes, what advice would you give to young artists
exploring the art industry.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Oh, my gosh, find your community. Find your community. Don't
be afraid to not know the answers to things. Don't
feel the need to compromise who you are, don't feel
the need to assimilate. Be yourself. The art world needs
who you are are. There's so many copy and paste,
(35:03):
I would say, in the arts, and it's always so
refreshing to come into contact with people who are just
so proudly and boldly themselves.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Yeah, that's my piece of advice.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Be who you are, because the arts world needs people
who are not afraid to be themselves.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Can you describe the best way to obtain a mentor
in the space?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Ooh, so, I would say mentorship for me, being someone
who's more institution adjacent, as one of my mentors actually said,
you know, it's really been from going to different art events,
going to artists talks, going to curry your talks, showing
(35:49):
up on opening night, closing night, and meeting people, chatting
with people, and just you know, being transparent about who
you are, what you're working towards, and you know, really
just from those connections and letting it be something very organic.
For me personally, I'm just all about like organic relationships
because whoever my mentor is, like, I want them to
be someone who I feel comfortable with in my vulnerability.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
And so I.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Would definitely just say again, be who you are, because
you can only find someone who aligns with you when
you were your truest self. And also, just don't be
afraid to reach out. Don't be afraid to reach out.
Don't be afraid to tell someone that there's something that
they're doing that excites you, that inspired you that you
(36:33):
would love to learn more about, because people need to
hear it. People need to know sometimes that there are
people who are inspired by what they're doing. And so yeah,
I would say, like, show up as your full self.
But also don't be afraid to reach out, and when
you do, let it be organic. Don't be so quick
(36:54):
to be like, hey, I want you to be my mentor. No,
let it grow into that.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Definitely some gen being dropped for sure. I'm curious to
know how can someone start a Black Girls an Art
Spaces chapter in their area.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Oh my gosh, all you have to do is reach
out to our email address, Black Girls in Our Spaces
at gmail dot com and from there I would get
on a call with them and give them some time
to ask me any questions that they have, Please reach out,
Please reach out. But yeah, like I would get on
a meeting with them and we would just talk through
(37:29):
the process and you know, if things align, if they
feel ready, then we just go from there.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Okay, Well, I hope that everyone reaches out to you,
that everyone around the world starts a chapter. Do you
have any recommended podcasts or social media pages that we
should look into to deepen our knowledge on this topic?
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Ooh absolutely, So these are my top artsy black podcasts
that I think everyone should happen into. The Institute of
Black Imagination, Shade Home Impressions, and Studio Noise Black Art podcasts.
Those are my recommendations. And then as far as pages,
(38:10):
my gosh, there's so many.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
There's so many.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
There's so many great pages that you can follow. But
I will say, if you do follow black Girls in
Art Spaces, we post share so many dope individuals every day,
so it's truly a great place to start with getting
connected to the arts.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
So basically, follow black Girls in our Spaces.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Black girls and art spaces and We'll put you on.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Right okay, soksee where can we keep up with you?
What are your social media handles and website?
Speaker 3 (38:41):
So my personal Instagram and TikTok are at KC Meriweather Hawkins.
That's kac I M E R R I w E
t h E r h A w U k I
n S. And the Black Girls in Art Spaces TikTok
and Instagram are at black Girls and art Spaces, and
(39:02):
then our website is black Girls and Ourspaces dot info.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Lovely well, thank you so much, Casey for taking the
time to talk with me. I enjoyed learning so much
from you and just so excited to see the progression
of Black girls in our spaces and your personal work
as well.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
This has truly been in honor of a super huge
fan of therapy for Black Girls, and you have been incredible.
So thank you Jana so much for speaking with me
today and making me feel comfortable to share my journey.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Oh thanks. I want to thank Casey once again for
joining us for this episode. Class is over for now,
but before we dismiss, take the following notes from my
conversation with Casey. Home with you. My dream career is
right in front of me, and no one can stop
me from securing it. I will be able to make
(39:53):
a living off of the things I am passionate about.
My art will be seen by more eyes than I
can can possibly conceptualize. To learn more about the work
Casey is doing, or to do more research on this topic,
be sure to visit Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash tbgu.
This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and
(40:17):
Zaria Taylor. Editing is by Dennison L.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Brawford.
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