July 15, 2024 • 33 mins
Danielle and Richard weren’t supposed to be together the night they vanished off South Street. Danielle had thwarted reconciliation efforts by her estranged husband and ended things with Richard. She wanted to be alone and focus on raising her son. We explore what happened in the hours before and what happened after they vanished.
If you would like to reach out to the There and Gone Team, please email us at thereandgonepod@gmail.com.
If you have any tips on the disappearance of Richard Petrone and Danielle Imbo, please contact the Citizens Crime Commission at 215-546-TIPS (8477).
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He picked me and my mom up and said, I
want to take you guys out to eat. We went
to this little Italian restaurant in South Philly and he said,
I'm being stalked. He's threatening me, he's messaging me, and
it's to the point that I'm scared. And three weeks later,
(00:23):
never see my dad again.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm Andrea Gunning and this is There and Gone South
Street Episode three, Together or Not?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Hold is I say you in my dream wait down
in the dog.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
For you.
Speaker 5 (00:48):
P lost to me. I'll never give up, no matter
how I opened my eyes.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Fine. Just a note that the views and opinions expressed
in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating.
This podcast also contains subject matter that may not be
suitable for everyone. Discretion is advised. It's the evening of Sunday,
(01:35):
February twentieth, two thousand and five. At this point, Danielle
Mbo and Richard Patron hadn't been seen since just before
eleven forty five the previous night. They were leaving a
bar in South Philly and heading toward Richard's pickup truck,
which was parked nearby. Some sixteen hours later, Danielle's brother,
John and his mother got together with the Patrons to
(01:57):
try to make sense of where they may have gone.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
I went over to the Patron's house and everybody's and
a panic.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
These two families were no strangers to one another. Richard's sister,
Christine has been good friends with Danielle since the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 6 (02:15):
Christine was always at our house, or Danielle was always
at Christine's house. My family loved Christine, loved her.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And that friendship extended well beyond Danielle and Christine. Marge
Patron and Danielle's mother were also close.
Speaker 6 (02:32):
Marge and my mother, Felice, met through the girls and
they hit it off and they became really close friends
as well. And you know, the girls would go out
to dinner with the mother's and it was nice, it
really was.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Danielle also had been casually dating Richard over the months
leading up to their disappearance, and that evening both families
were focused on finding them.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
Marge Patron and my mother were calling hospitals, and mister
Petron hopped my truck and we just went to the city.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
The two drove to South Street, where Danielle and Richard
were lasting, leaving Abilene's bar. Then they headed to Richard's
apartment in South Philly, which was just a couple miles
from Abilene's. From there, they retraced every possible route from
South Street to Danielle's condo, some twenty miles across the
Delaware River into New Jersey.
Speaker 6 (03:24):
We were up and down each bridge, that Ben Franklin,
the Walt Whitman, the Betsy Ross looking for the truck
on the side of the road. Maybe they got no
an accident, the truck was in a ditch or something.
He just went to all the police stations in the city,
thinking maybe Richard was drinking and driving and he got
pulled over. Mister Petrons saying, and maybe they're in a
(03:46):
holding cell until they see a judge on Monday. Or
he was just coming up with all these things that
could have happened, and the whole time, I'm saying on myself,
something's wrong.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
That's not what happened that night. There were no records
of any John or Jane Doe's in area hospitals, no
reports of any cars ending up in the water, and
there was no sign of anyone having been at Danielle's
condo or Richard's apartment.
Speaker 6 (04:10):
I just can't even describe the feeling of a loved
one being lost. There's emptiness, there's a million emotions running through.
It's like you're literally standing in the middle of a
snow covered field and there's not a footprint in any direction,
and you've got to figure out which way to go.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Despite all the ground John and rich covered that night,
they didn't find any sign of Danielle Richard or Richard's truck.
Speaker 6 (04:39):
I mean, there's nothing.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
John remembers a lot of uncomfortable silence during that car ride.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
Listen, I think both of us knew something was seriously wrong.
Neither one of us were comfortable saying it.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Out loud as the night wore on. John's thoughts and
fears all bordered on worst case scenario.
Speaker 6 (05:02):
Did they get abducted at the vehicle? Did they get
abducted at a convenience store? Did they get abducted at
Richard's apartment. You try to think about and wrap your
brain around, it just doesn't make sense. It does not
make sense. It's like they literally vanished.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
All of this made me think about what the FBI
shared with me, that there was no activity on either
of their phones or credit cards, no cameras that caught
Danielle or Richard leaving South Street, or, as John told me,
not a purse, a shoe, lipstick, or even a piece
of hair left behind. As baffling as that was to
(05:40):
the families and investigators, John told me, one of the
many burning questions in his mind was why were Danielle
and Richard together in the first place. I didn't know
they were back together, because here's the thing. A few
weeks earlier, his sister and Richard decided to take a
break from seeing each other, and, to make more complicated,
(06:01):
Danielle's a strange husband, Joe wanted her back.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
He didn't really start pressing her to get back together
until she was finally starting to get her life together
and was moving on.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
As we discovered in the last episode, a year before
all of this happened, Joe cheated on Danielle and left
her for another woman. He even moved down to Atlanta
to be with her. All of that threw Danielle into
a tailspin.
Speaker 6 (06:30):
She wasn't that sparkling woman that I knew, You know,
that person not walked into a room and put the
room up. She was just a shell of herself.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Danielle went through all the stages of grief. Joseph Fair
was in February and that was a dark time for her.
But by the summer she finally started to come out
of her funk. Then, out of nowhere, Joe changed his mind.
Speaker 6 (06:53):
Once he realized she was kind of getting over it
and accepting that we're moving on. Then he wanted his
cake and to eat it too.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
The one ady was surprising. John didn't think it was
so much Joe's idea as it was Joe's family.
Speaker 6 (07:08):
He was getting so much pressure and his family was
really disappointed in what happened and in his actions. I
think it was because of that he felt obligated to
try to reconcile.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Danielle was conflicted. She and Joe had a son who
wasn't even two years old, yet should she prioritize herself
or keep her family together for her son. All the
progress she made over the summer evaporated in an instant.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
She would cry and be like, I'm so confused, I
don't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Even the last time John spoke with his sister Danielle,
the topic of conversation was what to do about Joe.
Speaker 6 (07:54):
We were on the phone my whole ride home from work,
she had called me. She was crying, just like and
confused what to do. At that point, I told Danielle, look,
I can't tell you what to do. I can only
tell you whatever you do, I support you. And she said,
I feel like I should give him another chance for
the baby's sake, but I know if I get back
with him, you and mom are going to treat him
(08:15):
the same. And I said, Danielle, listen, I probably will
never look at him the same again. You're right, but
I will never ever make him or you feel uncomfortable.
I can promise you that I will do whatever you want,
and I'll do it with a smile on my face
because I love you and you're my sister.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
What John remembers today is that just before they ended
their conversation, Danielle had a sort of aha moment.
Speaker 6 (08:44):
She had said, I don't want to get back together
with Joe. I just want to be alone, and I
just want to figure it out and be a good mom.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So you can imagine John's surprise when you found out
that just twenty four hours after Danielle said she didn't
want to be with Joe, let alone anyone. She was
out at a bar with Richard.
Speaker 6 (09:03):
I know she told Richard like listen, I think we
need to call it. We need to know, not date
or not go out. I want to be by myself.
Next thing, you know, he had cold and they met up.
That's what boggles my mind.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Obviously, this is something that goes on all the time.
Two people are hanging out, they like each other, and
then they need to go on a break. Maybe it's
just for the night or longer. Maybe you hang out
from time to time, feel it out. Relationships are complicated,
not always linear. Whatever the case, it happens right well.
The difference with Danielle and Richard is that the same
(09:38):
night they hang out after taking a break, they both vanish.
And I'm not giving anything away here when I say
they later would be presumed dead. So I want to
spend this episode understanding why Danielle and Richard got together
that night and why they were supposed to be a part,
because I can't help but think that that answer could
(10:01):
begin to help me understand what happened to them that night.
Richard's mother, Marge, told me she couldn't remember her son
ever being in a serious relationship. She said, by the
time she got to know any of the girls, it
(10:22):
would fizzle out. So she stopped getting attached.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
So I said, don't bring them. I don't want to
get to know them. I get to know them and
then there be somebody else.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Don't let me meet them.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
I know he would laugh.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Like any mother. All she wanted was for her son
to meet someone, fall in love and get married. But
she didn't think Richard was headed down that path.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I don't know that he would have ever really settled down.
I think because a couple of his friends got married
and they weren't real happy and things were not working out,
and he kept saying, I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Maybe it was fate or just coincidence. But once Danielle's
husband left her in two thousand and four, Danielle started
spending a lot of time with the Patrons.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
I know, through the summer she came to my house
at the shore with her son and her mother. They
stayed with us a couple of times with Richard there,
and that's when they started dating.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
How did you feel about the two of them ending
up together.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I love Danielle, I always did.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Danielle was a familiar face to Marge. She was the
best friend of Marge's daughter, Christine. The two had been
friends since high school. And I got the impression that
Marge secretly hoped Richard would end up with a girl
like Danielle, or maybe even Danielle herself.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Yeah, I thought that was a perfect fit for him.
But then I didn't want to God forbid if I
said I didn't want to say it, because then I
thought I'll jinx myself for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Unlike some of Richard's other girlfriends, Marge felt like Danielle
was different. She seemed like a keeper.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
They could stay in and have a pizza and a beer,
and Richard was with that. And so with Danielle. She
concentrated on raising her son, and he always concentrated on
raising Anne, so they had that in common.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
By that time, Richard's daughter and had moved in with
her mother, and Marge said, Danielle's infant son fit right in.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
She would bring him here all the time. He would
call me mom because he would hear my grandchildren call
me that. So he was adorable, you know, little Joe
and Richard. He had the truck and when it would snow,
we put them all on the back of the truck.
I pictures of them baton in the back of Richard's truck.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
We were thrilled.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Mike, what's a tian mother's dream one that of course
got him married.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Danielle and Richard started hanging out in the summer, and
by the fall, Danielle was joining Richard at family parties.
Here is Richard's little sister, Elisa.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Danielle and Richard gave me that as a gift together
for my birthday.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Was like a.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Tiffany's key chain, mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
And that was November.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
I was from the two of them.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
That New Year's Day. Richard's aunt Linda remembers Danielle talking
about ring in the New Year with him.
Speaker 7 (13:06):
Danielle said, I had the best New Year's Eve of
my life. And I said, really, what did you guys do?
And she said we danced at twelve o'clock and that,
she said, with no music, and they just kept smiling
at each other. That's just what I remember, just what
I remember.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Richard's daughter Ange said she quickly picked up on the
fact that Danielle wasn't like all of Richard's other girlfriends.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
He just slowly started, you know, family outings and stuff.
She would come along, and they bonded over music, so
they were always going to concerts and stuff like that.
I could tell that he was really having feelings for her.
I was like, is this like a serious thing? Dad,
Like are you stating? And he told me yeah, like
I really, I really have feelings for her. I care
(13:56):
about her a lot now. When I was little, you know,
five six seven, if he had a girlfriend, forget it,
I hated them. He wasn't allowed to have girlfriends. I
was against everyone he had. But no, by the time
Danielle came, I was like, good for you, dad, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
And said things between Danielle and her Dad eventually got
more serious.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
He sat me down and said, listen, I really like Danielle.
You know, things are progressing. We really enjoy spending time
with each other, and she's my girlfriend. And I was
happy for him. She was still going through a divorce,
so they didn't rush things. They took their time.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
But things didn't last.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
And then unfortunately, things with Joe got like really heated.
He was starting a lot of things, and so then
they broke up.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Just a few weeks before they disappeared, Danielle and Richard
called it quits.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
I think they just kind of took the title boyfriend
and girlfriend away for a while. They were just both like, hey,
we're still gonna be in each other's lives. Let's, you know,
deal with our own personal things and then meet back
up and see where it goes.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
According to Marge, it all had to do with timing.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
I think she was a couple of weeks away from
the divorce to be final, and she didn't want to
push his buttons, so she kind of like stopped because
her husband. I think he moved to Georgia, but then
he came back and Richard was fine with me.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I asked Danielle's brother John about Danielle ending things with Richard.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
She had going on on a few dates with Richard
and it was through the holidays run Christmas time. He
wanted to be with Danielle. You could tell he loved her,
that's for certain, and I know his family would have
loved to have seen them together.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
As John talked, his wife, Jodi looked like she had
something to say about Richard, so I asked her to
pull up a chair.
Speaker 8 (15:49):
So not much was ever really said about him from her,
and I was just like, oh, you're going to bring
him around. She's like, taking it slow because I'm just
starting to get things on track with Joe and with
the mediation. She's like, I don't want to mess that up,
so we're just taking things slow. And I was like, okay,
(16:12):
that's fine.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Cool.
Speaker 8 (16:12):
When you're ready to introduce them to us, like you know,
we're own to dinner, we'll be here.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Jody said she only met Richard twice. Both times he
was delivering a cake. That second meeting happened a day
or so before Danielle broke things off with him.
Speaker 8 (16:28):
She handed it with him and said, like, right now,
I don't want to be with anyone.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Jody said she wanted to be clear. It wasn't that
she didn't like Richard. She said she barely knew him.
Speaker 8 (16:42):
Whenever you listened to the news, it's always Danielle and
her boyfriend, Richard Patron. They were not boyfriend and girlfriend
were not They didn't date enough and go out enough
to be boyfriend and girlfriend.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
The Patron family likes to portray them as this loving
couple that we're getting ready to get married, and everything
was peaches and cream. But the fact is they hadn't
dated for months.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
All right, So just to make sure we're all on
the same page here. Richard's family said Danielle and Richard
were a couple, but Danielle's family said they weren't. All
labels aside. We do know that they started seeing each
other over the summer of two thousand and four and
called things off around the end of January early February.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Danielle had made a conscious decision to move forward and
just concentrate on her son. She wasn't getting back with Joe,
she wasn't going to date Richard. She was going to
just concentrate on her and her son.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Richard's sister, Elisa said her brother was laid back and
understood Danielle's position.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
If you need a break, take your break is how
I think he would have taken it.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
And so did Richard's friend Frank.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
He was okay with that taking a break because I
remember saying, is that what?
Speaker 1 (17:54):
That's it? Right?
Speaker 5 (17:55):
And see what happens, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
In Philadelphia, this case is often referred to as the
missing couple, and while working on this, we quickly learned
this was a hot button for Danielle and Richard's families.
Were they or weren't they? A couple. My colleague Ben
and I discussed this a lot at length.
Speaker 9 (18:13):
There are a few things that families don't see eye
to eye on, but this may be the biggest one.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
The attoberies are saidfast in the fact that they were
not a couple, they were boyfriend and girlfriend, and then
the patrons feel strongly that they were in a relationship.
Speaker 9 (18:31):
I think back to Danielle's conversation with her brother John,
where as it related to Joe. She opened up and said,
if I take him back, are you ever going to
even look at him the same way?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
My god. So relatable.
Speaker 9 (18:47):
It's totally relatable, and it's a concern that we know
is on her mind, that her decisions she's keenly aware,
affect how her family is going to think about her.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
We know that Danielle had a lot going on in
her life. She was a single mom.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
She was.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Just on the other side of grieving the loss of
her marriage. Right, so she's a few months out of
understanding the fact that this relationship is falling apart. My
husband cheated on me. She's picking herself up by her
bootstraps and getting over it and finally letting her hair
down and have a little fun and being open to
(19:29):
other opportunities. Then she meets Richard and she's interested, right,
like interested enough where they're going on dates, they're seeing
each other.
Speaker 9 (19:41):
Were they a couple, were they not a couple. I
think we're avoiding that very big part in the middle
of what probably is going on, which is it was
a little gray, it was muddy, it wasn't clear.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I know that are important to every investigation, like hyper
specific details are really important, but there's something super distracting
about all of the noise about whether they are or
they are not a couple. I think they both really
(20:19):
cared about each other. I think they both really like
spending time. I think it was a matter of timing,
and I think that Danielle had a lot going on.
I think Richard probably was a lot more emotionally available
than Danielle was, just by circumstance, single open, and I
(20:40):
think he was more than willing to give her a
space when she asked for it. Obviously Danielle was more
intertwined with Richard's life. Yes, I don't think that necessarily
means that Danielle didn't care about Richard any less. I
just think that she wasn't as or open. She's obviously
(21:01):
really confused and honestly as a woman. That makes me
feel for her because she's interested but also feeling a
little bit held back, and then she's in the mix
of this intense divorce. But it just makes me realize
that we have so much to talk to Christine about
because I feel like she's the one. Like she's Richard's sister,
(21:24):
she's Danielle's best friend. She knew what was happening between
the two of them and was with Danielle the night
that Richard called and they got together. So I feel
like so much of this is going to be cleared
up if we ever talked to Christine. We've heard a
(21:49):
lot about the days and months leading up to Danielle
and Richard's disappearance. Both victims' families agree that Danielle and
Richard had been casually dating but broke things off about
three weeks before they both went missing, and then on Saturday,
February nineteenth, two thousand and five, the two met up.
My team tracked down a handful of people who could
provide more details about that night, including someone who was
(22:12):
at Abilene's with Danielle and Richard.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
It was definitely full house in Abileines that night.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
That's Anthony Valentino, a longtime friend of Richard's. I feel
like I should mention Anthony is a man of few
words for a heavy metal guy, He's actually very sweet
and soft spoken. A couple times during our conversation, Anthony
teared up while talking about Richard. I also noticed how
nervous he was, like visibly shaking.
Speaker 10 (22:40):
I mean I talked to rich a couple times during
the day and I was like, hey, I am going.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
Off to Abilene's.
Speaker 10 (22:45):
Probably didn't even fall all together till like seven or
eight o'clock at night or something like that.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Anthony said it was the first time he and his
wife Michelle had met Danielle.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
He said he liked her.
Speaker 10 (22:57):
You know, I remember like night were effect you know,
arm around each other or whennot. I think I seen
him maybe give a kiss to each other.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Anthony described that night as normal and didn't remember anything
else noteworthy. He said the four of them just listened
to the band and hung out.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
Michelle and Danielle they were sitting at the bar.
Speaker 10 (23:22):
They had a seat, like it was crowded in a
loud bar, so I know my wife was like talked
to her more.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Anthony and Richard did a couple shots, and just before
midnight they were ready to leave.
Speaker 10 (23:35):
We were going to go to see a band at
another bar, and they were just like sposedly going back
to our house.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Danielle's condo was about thirty minutes from Abilene's and Mount Laurel,
New Jersey. That's where Anthony believes Danielle and Richard plan
to drive.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
And then we just say goodbye.
Speaker 10 (23:54):
Me and rich hugged and he left, disappeared out the
door into the crowded street.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Unfortunately, Anthony didn't see what direction Danielle and Richard headed,
but he remembered hearing Richard bragg about how he got
a good parking spot.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
That night once that door closed. But I never saw
him again.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Christine Patron was not only Richard's sister, but one of
Danielle's best friends. The two had known each other since
high school. Christine was the one who drove Danielle to
meet Richard back on February nineteenth, two thousand and five.
When we first met the Patrons for Sunday dinner, the
conversation kept coming back to where is Christine? Because Christine
(24:39):
never showed up.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Did you ever both to Christine?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Will you just met her?
Speaker 11 (24:46):
Just and well?
Speaker 12 (24:47):
Meet and green?
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Wh you can't talk about it?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Why do you think that is? It's too barn Well
what is it?
Speaker 10 (24:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I'll get Christine to speak to you.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
She's been reluctant to talk with us, but eventually agreed
to a phone call with my colleague Ben.
Speaker 11 (25:07):
Hello, Hi is this Christine?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Hi?
Speaker 5 (25:11):
Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Christine told Ben that she had done so many interviews
and wasn't really interested in doing another.
Speaker 11 (25:19):
I just to be honest, A lot of it I
felt like in the beginning was you know, news reporters,
people trying to get reading. I didn't think it really
was helping anything as far as the case went, so
it didn't benefit anything for me in that regard.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
After some back and forth, Christine eventually agreed to talk
with us on zoom.
Speaker 9 (25:48):
Why don't you start by just telling us your name
and your relationship.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
It was a long conversation, so I'll only play a
few things that stood out. Christine said, when Danielle moved
to New York, they lost touch, but they reconnected right
after Danielle married Joe.
Speaker 12 (26:06):
Later in her pregnancy is when I got the gist
that things weren't great with her and Joe. Remember like
one conversation, it was at night and he wasn't home,
and like he wasn't answer on his phone, and I thought,
you're pregnant. Like that was weird to me. I don't
know if anybody even told you this book. Her baby
(26:28):
was maybe like a month old, and he wanted to
go on vacation and Danielle was so upset, Like, I'm
sure you want to, sometimes you just.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Don't, Christine said. Danielle was devastated when Joe left her
for another woman, and a lot of her friends wondered
why she even considered getting back with him.
Speaker 12 (26:48):
No one understood why she even entertained the thought of
being with him again, but I did. I think as
a mom, you're thinking to your kid, so I understood.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Christine couldn't remember when exactly Danielle started dating Richard, but
she said she felt like there'd always been chemistry there.
Speaker 12 (27:08):
I think she always liked him from when we were younger,
just like a crush kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
At the time.
Speaker 12 (27:13):
I don't think he thought anything of her back then,
but I think she did.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
Then.
Speaker 12 (27:19):
I guess when we got older, and he was interested.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
It was like, well, when it came time to choosing
between Joe and Richard, Christine said she didn't push Danielle
one way or the other because she didn't want it
to seem like she was favoring her brother.
Speaker 12 (27:34):
Then I think there was a time where Danielle thought,
I don't want to be with either of them. I
need to get myself together.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I want you to hear a different point of view
from one of Danielle's other friends named Jeannette. Jeanette talked
with Danielle the day before she disappeared.
Speaker 13 (27:51):
Danielle's emotions were all over the place from day to day.
That's where she was. I think she was just trying
to figure things out.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
What went through your mind when you learn Danielle went
out with Richard.
Speaker 13 (28:06):
It wasn't a planned event that she was going to
meet Richard that night, and I know that for a fact.
So I was surprised that she went out and even
more surprised when she didn't come home.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Jeanette said she had plans with Danielle that Saturday, but
Danielle canceled.
Speaker 13 (28:25):
Danielle wanted to go to dinner with her mom and Christine,
and we had a phone conversation because I was planning
on going over there.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Did Danielle ever talk to you about her relationship with Richard?
Speaker 13 (28:37):
So that's a territory that I kind of want to
keep private.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
But I'm going to leave you with this.
Speaker 13 (28:47):
I never believed or was told any different that they
were a couple. Ever. Richard Patternaum was a shoulder and
a friend.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Christine has a different take. Ultimately, Christine believes Danielle wanted
to be with her brother.
Speaker 12 (29:08):
I think in her heart she wanted to be with him,
but I think it was a struggle take out the
kids and the divorce that she would have been with him.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
There's a reason we're spending so much time on Danielle
and Richard's relationship because it will play into what happened next.
Speaker 12 (29:28):
They dated pretty steadily for a few months, I know,
like that fall they were dating. I know Thanksgiving was
when Joe was calling Richard at work, like so it
was a good couple of months.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Wait, why was Joe calling Richard at work?
Speaker 12 (29:45):
It was like a busy day at the bakery and
he kept calling and calling and calling.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
According to Marge, Joe wasn't calling Richard to place a
bakery order.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Joe was threatening him with baseball.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Bat and said she also knew about the threats Joe
made to Richard.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I would say it was probably about three weeks before
he went missing. He said, he's threatening me, He's messaging me,
and it's to the point that I'm scared.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
FBI agent Peta Roselli was aware of the alleged phone
call and threat.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
We did find in our investigation the work conversations between
the two there was at least one explicit phone call exchange.
There was reference to a threat made about a baseball bat.
I don't know how much to put into that, because
emotions were high, and when emotions are high, embellishments are made.
(30:47):
That could have been an embellishment. That could have been
just a misinterpretation of what somebody was told. But I
did hear that, yes, And then both Richard's baby's mom,
Julie and their daughter Angela, they did mention that Richard said,
you know, if anything happened to me, it was the husband,
(31:10):
meaning Joe Wimbo.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
But in June of two thousand and five, Joe denied
threatening Richard. He told the Philadelphia Daily News that Richard
was the one who threatened him.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
We all thought that maybe it was going to lead
to a confrontational like maybe one day he's actually going
to show up to the bakery, and then a few
weeks after that he's gone.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
That's next time on There and Gone. If you have
any information about the disappearance of Danielle Imbo and Richard Patron,
please call the Citizens Crime Commission tip Line at two
on five five four six eight four seven seven, or
you can reach out to the show in our team
by email at Barren Gnpot at gmail dot com. That's
(32:01):
There and Gone pod at gmail dot com. Thank you
so much for listening. One way for you to show
support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts.
Don't forget to rate and review because five star reviews
go a long way. A big thank you to all
of our listeners. Therein Gon is a production of Glass Podcasts,
(32:22):
a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.
The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass, Ben Fetterman,
and me Andrea Gunning. It's hosted and written by me
Andrea Gunning, with additional reporting and writing by Ben Fetterman.
The series is also written and produced by Todd Gans.
Our associate producer is Kristin Melcyrie. Research by Mason Klinder,
(32:45):
Annah Hamilton, and Bella Riki. Our iHeart team is Ali
Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio,
additional editing support from Nico Aaruka and Tanner Robbins. Therein
Gon's and original compositions were composed by Oliver Bains and
Darry macaulay of Neuser Music Library provided by my Music
(33:08):
Special thanks to both the Patrone and tow Ray families.
For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts,
He picked me and my mom up and said, I
want to take you guys out to eat. We went
to this little Italian restaurant in South Philly and he said,
I'm being stalked. He's threatening me, he's messaging me, and
it's to the point that I'm scared. And three weeks later,
(00:23):
never see my dad again.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm Andrea Gunning and this is There and Gone South
Street Episode three, Together or Not?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Hold is I say you in my dream wait down
in the dog.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
For you.
Speaker 5 (00:48):
P lost to me. I'll never give up, no matter
how I opened my eyes.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Fine. Just a note that the views and opinions expressed
in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating.
This podcast also contains subject matter that may not be
suitable for everyone. Discretion is advised. It's the evening of Sunday,
(01:35):
February twentieth, two thousand and five. At this point, Danielle
Mbo and Richard Patron hadn't been seen since just before
eleven forty five the previous night. They were leaving a
bar in South Philly and heading toward Richard's pickup truck,
which was parked nearby. Some sixteen hours later, Danielle's brother,
John and his mother got together with the Patrons to
(01:57):
try to make sense of where they may have gone.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
I went over to the Patron's house and everybody's and
a panic.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
These two families were no strangers to one another. Richard's sister,
Christine has been good friends with Danielle since the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 6 (02:15):
Christine was always at our house, or Danielle was always
at Christine's house. My family loved Christine, loved her.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And that friendship extended well beyond Danielle and Christine. Marge
Patron and Danielle's mother were also close.
Speaker 6 (02:32):
Marge and my mother, Felice, met through the girls and
they hit it off and they became really close friends
as well. And you know, the girls would go out
to dinner with the mother's and it was nice, it
really was.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Danielle also had been casually dating Richard over the months
leading up to their disappearance, and that evening both families
were focused on finding them.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
Marge Patron and my mother were calling hospitals, and mister
Petron hopped my truck and we just went to the city.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
The two drove to South Street, where Danielle and Richard
were lasting, leaving Abilene's bar. Then they headed to Richard's
apartment in South Philly, which was just a couple miles
from Abilene's. From there, they retraced every possible route from
South Street to Danielle's condo, some twenty miles across the
Delaware River into New Jersey.
Speaker 6 (03:24):
We were up and down each bridge, that Ben Franklin,
the Walt Whitman, the Betsy Ross looking for the truck
on the side of the road. Maybe they got no
an accident, the truck was in a ditch or something.
He just went to all the police stations in the city,
thinking maybe Richard was drinking and driving and he got
pulled over. Mister Petrons saying, and maybe they're in a
(03:46):
holding cell until they see a judge on Monday. Or
he was just coming up with all these things that
could have happened, and the whole time, I'm saying on myself,
something's wrong.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
That's not what happened that night. There were no records
of any John or Jane Doe's in area hospitals, no
reports of any cars ending up in the water, and
there was no sign of anyone having been at Danielle's
condo or Richard's apartment.
Speaker 6 (04:10):
I just can't even describe the feeling of a loved
one being lost. There's emptiness, there's a million emotions running through.
It's like you're literally standing in the middle of a
snow covered field and there's not a footprint in any direction,
and you've got to figure out which way to go.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Despite all the ground John and rich covered that night,
they didn't find any sign of Danielle Richard or Richard's truck.
Speaker 6 (04:39):
I mean, there's nothing.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
John remembers a lot of uncomfortable silence during that car ride.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
Listen, I think both of us knew something was seriously wrong.
Neither one of us were comfortable saying it.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Out loud as the night wore on. John's thoughts and
fears all bordered on worst case scenario.
Speaker 6 (05:02):
Did they get abducted at the vehicle? Did they get
abducted at a convenience store? Did they get abducted at
Richard's apartment. You try to think about and wrap your
brain around, it just doesn't make sense. It does not
make sense. It's like they literally vanished.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
All of this made me think about what the FBI
shared with me, that there was no activity on either
of their phones or credit cards, no cameras that caught
Danielle or Richard leaving South Street, or, as John told me,
not a purse, a shoe, lipstick, or even a piece
of hair left behind. As baffling as that was to
(05:40):
the families and investigators, John told me, one of the
many burning questions in his mind was why were Danielle
and Richard together in the first place. I didn't know
they were back together, because here's the thing. A few
weeks earlier, his sister and Richard decided to take a
break from seeing each other, and, to make more complicated,
(06:01):
Danielle's a strange husband, Joe wanted her back.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
He didn't really start pressing her to get back together
until she was finally starting to get her life together
and was moving on.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
As we discovered in the last episode, a year before
all of this happened, Joe cheated on Danielle and left
her for another woman. He even moved down to Atlanta
to be with her. All of that threw Danielle into
a tailspin.
Speaker 6 (06:30):
She wasn't that sparkling woman that I knew, You know,
that person not walked into a room and put the
room up. She was just a shell of herself.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Danielle went through all the stages of grief. Joseph Fair
was in February and that was a dark time for her.
But by the summer she finally started to come out
of her funk. Then, out of nowhere, Joe changed his mind.
Speaker 6 (06:53):
Once he realized she was kind of getting over it
and accepting that we're moving on. Then he wanted his
cake and to eat it too.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
The one ady was surprising. John didn't think it was
so much Joe's idea as it was Joe's family.
Speaker 6 (07:08):
He was getting so much pressure and his family was
really disappointed in what happened and in his actions. I
think it was because of that he felt obligated to
try to reconcile.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Danielle was conflicted. She and Joe had a son who
wasn't even two years old, yet should she prioritize herself
or keep her family together for her son. All the
progress she made over the summer evaporated in an instant.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
She would cry and be like, I'm so confused, I
don't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Even the last time John spoke with his sister Danielle,
the topic of conversation was what to do about Joe.
Speaker 6 (07:54):
We were on the phone my whole ride home from work,
she had called me. She was crying, just like and
confused what to do. At that point, I told Danielle, look,
I can't tell you what to do. I can only
tell you whatever you do, I support you. And she said,
I feel like I should give him another chance for
the baby's sake, but I know if I get back
with him, you and mom are going to treat him
(08:15):
the same. And I said, Danielle, listen, I probably will
never look at him the same again. You're right, but
I will never ever make him or you feel uncomfortable.
I can promise you that I will do whatever you want,
and I'll do it with a smile on my face
because I love you and you're my sister.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
What John remembers today is that just before they ended
their conversation, Danielle had a sort of aha moment.
Speaker 6 (08:44):
She had said, I don't want to get back together
with Joe. I just want to be alone, and I
just want to figure it out and be a good mom.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So you can imagine John's surprise when you found out
that just twenty four hours after Danielle said she didn't
want to be with Joe, let alone anyone. She was
out at a bar with Richard.
Speaker 6 (09:03):
I know she told Richard like listen, I think we
need to call it. We need to know, not date
or not go out. I want to be by myself.
Next thing, you know, he had cold and they met up.
That's what boggles my mind.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Obviously, this is something that goes on all the time.
Two people are hanging out, they like each other, and
then they need to go on a break. Maybe it's
just for the night or longer. Maybe you hang out
from time to time, feel it out. Relationships are complicated,
not always linear. Whatever the case, it happens right well.
The difference with Danielle and Richard is that the same
(09:38):
night they hang out after taking a break, they both vanish.
And I'm not giving anything away here when I say
they later would be presumed dead. So I want to
spend this episode understanding why Danielle and Richard got together
that night and why they were supposed to be a part,
because I can't help but think that that answer could
(10:01):
begin to help me understand what happened to them that night.
Richard's mother, Marge, told me she couldn't remember her son
ever being in a serious relationship. She said, by the
time she got to know any of the girls, it
(10:22):
would fizzle out. So she stopped getting attached.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
So I said, don't bring them. I don't want to
get to know them. I get to know them and
then there be somebody else.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Don't let me meet them.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
I know he would laugh.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Like any mother. All she wanted was for her son
to meet someone, fall in love and get married. But
she didn't think Richard was headed down that path.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I don't know that he would have ever really settled down.
I think because a couple of his friends got married
and they weren't real happy and things were not working out,
and he kept saying, I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Maybe it was fate or just coincidence. But once Danielle's
husband left her in two thousand and four, Danielle started
spending a lot of time with the Patrons.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
I know, through the summer she came to my house
at the shore with her son and her mother. They
stayed with us a couple of times with Richard there,
and that's when they started dating.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
How did you feel about the two of them ending
up together.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I love Danielle, I always did.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Danielle was a familiar face to Marge. She was the
best friend of Marge's daughter, Christine. The two had been
friends since high school. And I got the impression that
Marge secretly hoped Richard would end up with a girl
like Danielle, or maybe even Danielle herself.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Yeah, I thought that was a perfect fit for him.
But then I didn't want to God forbid if I
said I didn't want to say it, because then I
thought I'll jinx myself for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Unlike some of Richard's other girlfriends, Marge felt like Danielle
was different. She seemed like a keeper.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
They could stay in and have a pizza and a beer,
and Richard was with that. And so with Danielle. She
concentrated on raising her son, and he always concentrated on
raising Anne, so they had that in common.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
By that time, Richard's daughter and had moved in with
her mother, and Marge said, Danielle's infant son fit right in.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
She would bring him here all the time. He would
call me mom because he would hear my grandchildren call
me that. So he was adorable, you know, little Joe
and Richard. He had the truck and when it would snow,
we put them all on the back of the truck.
I pictures of them baton in the back of Richard's truck.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
We were thrilled.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Mike, what's a tian mother's dream one that of course
got him married.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Danielle and Richard started hanging out in the summer, and
by the fall, Danielle was joining Richard at family parties.
Here is Richard's little sister, Elisa.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Danielle and Richard gave me that as a gift together
for my birthday.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Was like a.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Tiffany's key chain, mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
And that was November.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
I was from the two of them.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
That New Year's Day. Richard's aunt Linda remembers Danielle talking
about ring in the New Year with him.
Speaker 7 (13:06):
Danielle said, I had the best New Year's Eve of
my life. And I said, really, what did you guys do?
And she said we danced at twelve o'clock and that,
she said, with no music, and they just kept smiling
at each other. That's just what I remember, just what
I remember.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Richard's daughter Ange said she quickly picked up on the
fact that Danielle wasn't like all of Richard's other girlfriends.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
He just slowly started, you know, family outings and stuff.
She would come along, and they bonded over music, so
they were always going to concerts and stuff like that.
I could tell that he was really having feelings for her.
I was like, is this like a serious thing? Dad,
Like are you stating? And he told me yeah, like
I really, I really have feelings for her. I care
(13:56):
about her a lot now. When I was little, you know,
five six seven, if he had a girlfriend, forget it,
I hated them. He wasn't allowed to have girlfriends. I
was against everyone he had. But no, by the time
Danielle came, I was like, good for you, dad, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
And said things between Danielle and her Dad eventually got
more serious.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
He sat me down and said, listen, I really like Danielle.
You know, things are progressing. We really enjoy spending time
with each other, and she's my girlfriend. And I was
happy for him. She was still going through a divorce,
so they didn't rush things. They took their time.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
But things didn't last.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
And then unfortunately, things with Joe got like really heated.
He was starting a lot of things, and so then
they broke up.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Just a few weeks before they disappeared, Danielle and Richard
called it quits.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
I think they just kind of took the title boyfriend
and girlfriend away for a while. They were just both like, hey,
we're still gonna be in each other's lives. Let's, you know,
deal with our own personal things and then meet back
up and see where it goes.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
According to Marge, it all had to do with timing.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
I think she was a couple of weeks away from
the divorce to be final, and she didn't want to
push his buttons, so she kind of like stopped because
her husband. I think he moved to Georgia, but then
he came back and Richard was fine with me.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I asked Danielle's brother John about Danielle ending things with Richard.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
She had going on on a few dates with Richard
and it was through the holidays run Christmas time. He
wanted to be with Danielle. You could tell he loved her,
that's for certain, and I know his family would have
loved to have seen them together.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
As John talked, his wife, Jodi looked like she had
something to say about Richard, so I asked her to
pull up a chair.
Speaker 8 (15:49):
So not much was ever really said about him from her,
and I was just like, oh, you're going to bring
him around. She's like, taking it slow because I'm just
starting to get things on track with Joe and with
the mediation. She's like, I don't want to mess that up,
so we're just taking things slow. And I was like, okay,
(16:12):
that's fine.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Cool.
Speaker 8 (16:12):
When you're ready to introduce them to us, like you know,
we're own to dinner, we'll be here.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Jody said she only met Richard twice. Both times he
was delivering a cake. That second meeting happened a day
or so before Danielle broke things off with him.
Speaker 8 (16:28):
She handed it with him and said, like, right now,
I don't want to be with anyone.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Jody said she wanted to be clear. It wasn't that
she didn't like Richard. She said she barely knew him.
Speaker 8 (16:42):
Whenever you listened to the news, it's always Danielle and
her boyfriend, Richard Patron. They were not boyfriend and girlfriend
were not They didn't date enough and go out enough
to be boyfriend and girlfriend.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
The Patron family likes to portray them as this loving
couple that we're getting ready to get married, and everything
was peaches and cream. But the fact is they hadn't
dated for months.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
All right, So just to make sure we're all on
the same page here. Richard's family said Danielle and Richard
were a couple, but Danielle's family said they weren't. All
labels aside. We do know that they started seeing each
other over the summer of two thousand and four and
called things off around the end of January early February.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Danielle had made a conscious decision to move forward and
just concentrate on her son. She wasn't getting back with Joe,
she wasn't going to date Richard. She was going to
just concentrate on her and her son.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Richard's sister, Elisa said her brother was laid back and
understood Danielle's position.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
If you need a break, take your break is how
I think he would have taken it.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
And so did Richard's friend Frank.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
He was okay with that taking a break because I
remember saying, is that what?
Speaker 1 (17:54):
That's it? Right?
Speaker 5 (17:55):
And see what happens, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
In Philadelphia, this case is often referred to as the
missing couple, and while working on this, we quickly learned
this was a hot button for Danielle and Richard's families.
Were they or weren't they? A couple. My colleague Ben
and I discussed this a lot at length.
Speaker 9 (18:13):
There are a few things that families don't see eye
to eye on, but this may be the biggest one.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
The attoberies are saidfast in the fact that they were
not a couple, they were boyfriend and girlfriend, and then
the patrons feel strongly that they were in a relationship.
Speaker 9 (18:31):
I think back to Danielle's conversation with her brother John,
where as it related to Joe. She opened up and said,
if I take him back, are you ever going to
even look at him the same way?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
My god. So relatable.
Speaker 9 (18:47):
It's totally relatable, and it's a concern that we know
is on her mind, that her decisions she's keenly aware,
affect how her family is going to think about her.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
We know that Danielle had a lot going on in
her life. She was a single mom.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
She was.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Just on the other side of grieving the loss of
her marriage. Right, so she's a few months out of
understanding the fact that this relationship is falling apart. My
husband cheated on me. She's picking herself up by her
bootstraps and getting over it and finally letting her hair
down and have a little fun and being open to
(19:29):
other opportunities. Then she meets Richard and she's interested, right,
like interested enough where they're going on dates, they're seeing
each other.
Speaker 9 (19:41):
Were they a couple, were they not a couple. I
think we're avoiding that very big part in the middle
of what probably is going on, which is it was
a little gray, it was muddy, it wasn't clear.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I know that are important to every investigation, like hyper
specific details are really important, but there's something super distracting
about all of the noise about whether they are or
they are not a couple. I think they both really
(20:19):
cared about each other. I think they both really like
spending time. I think it was a matter of timing,
and I think that Danielle had a lot going on.
I think Richard probably was a lot more emotionally available
than Danielle was, just by circumstance, single open, and I
(20:40):
think he was more than willing to give her a
space when she asked for it. Obviously Danielle was more
intertwined with Richard's life. Yes, I don't think that necessarily
means that Danielle didn't care about Richard any less. I
just think that she wasn't as or open. She's obviously
(21:01):
really confused and honestly as a woman. That makes me
feel for her because she's interested but also feeling a
little bit held back, and then she's in the mix
of this intense divorce. But it just makes me realize
that we have so much to talk to Christine about
because I feel like she's the one. Like she's Richard's sister,
(21:24):
she's Danielle's best friend. She knew what was happening between
the two of them and was with Danielle the night
that Richard called and they got together. So I feel
like so much of this is going to be cleared
up if we ever talked to Christine. We've heard a
(21:49):
lot about the days and months leading up to Danielle
and Richard's disappearance. Both victims' families agree that Danielle and
Richard had been casually dating but broke things off about
three weeks before they both went missing, and then on Saturday,
February nineteenth, two thousand and five, the two met up.
My team tracked down a handful of people who could
provide more details about that night, including someone who was
(22:12):
at Abilene's with Danielle and Richard.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
It was definitely full house in Abileines that night.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
That's Anthony Valentino, a longtime friend of Richard's. I feel
like I should mention Anthony is a man of few
words for a heavy metal guy, He's actually very sweet
and soft spoken. A couple times during our conversation, Anthony
teared up while talking about Richard. I also noticed how
nervous he was, like visibly shaking.
Speaker 10 (22:40):
I mean I talked to rich a couple times during
the day and I was like, hey, I am going.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
Off to Abilene's.
Speaker 10 (22:45):
Probably didn't even fall all together till like seven or
eight o'clock at night or something like that.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Anthony said it was the first time he and his
wife Michelle had met Danielle.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
He said he liked her.
Speaker 10 (22:57):
You know, I remember like night were effect you know,
arm around each other or whennot. I think I seen
him maybe give a kiss to each other.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Anthony described that night as normal and didn't remember anything
else noteworthy. He said the four of them just listened
to the band and hung out.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
Michelle and Danielle they were sitting at the bar.
Speaker 10 (23:22):
They had a seat, like it was crowded in a
loud bar, so I know my wife was like talked
to her more.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Anthony and Richard did a couple shots, and just before
midnight they were ready to leave.
Speaker 10 (23:35):
We were going to go to see a band at
another bar, and they were just like sposedly going back
to our house.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Danielle's condo was about thirty minutes from Abilene's and Mount Laurel,
New Jersey. That's where Anthony believes Danielle and Richard plan
to drive.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
And then we just say goodbye.
Speaker 10 (23:54):
Me and rich hugged and he left, disappeared out the
door into the crowded street.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Unfortunately, Anthony didn't see what direction Danielle and Richard headed,
but he remembered hearing Richard bragg about how he got
a good parking spot.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
That night once that door closed. But I never saw
him again.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Christine Patron was not only Richard's sister, but one of
Danielle's best friends. The two had known each other since
high school. Christine was the one who drove Danielle to
meet Richard back on February nineteenth, two thousand and five.
When we first met the Patrons for Sunday dinner, the
conversation kept coming back to where is Christine? Because Christine
(24:39):
never showed up.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Did you ever both to Christine?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Will you just met her?
Speaker 11 (24:46):
Just and well?
Speaker 12 (24:47):
Meet and green?
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Wh you can't talk about it?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Why do you think that is? It's too barn Well
what is it?
Speaker 10 (24:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I'll get Christine to speak to you.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
She's been reluctant to talk with us, but eventually agreed
to a phone call with my colleague Ben.
Speaker 11 (25:07):
Hello, Hi is this Christine?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Hi?
Speaker 5 (25:11):
Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Christine told Ben that she had done so many interviews
and wasn't really interested in doing another.
Speaker 11 (25:19):
I just to be honest, A lot of it I
felt like in the beginning was you know, news reporters,
people trying to get reading. I didn't think it really
was helping anything as far as the case went, so
it didn't benefit anything for me in that regard.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
After some back and forth, Christine eventually agreed to talk
with us on zoom.
Speaker 9 (25:48):
Why don't you start by just telling us your name
and your relationship.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
It was a long conversation, so I'll only play a
few things that stood out. Christine said, when Danielle moved
to New York, they lost touch, but they reconnected right
after Danielle married Joe.
Speaker 12 (26:06):
Later in her pregnancy is when I got the gist
that things weren't great with her and Joe. Remember like
one conversation, it was at night and he wasn't home,
and like he wasn't answer on his phone, and I thought,
you're pregnant. Like that was weird to me. I don't
know if anybody even told you this book. Her baby
(26:28):
was maybe like a month old, and he wanted to
go on vacation and Danielle was so upset, Like, I'm
sure you want to, sometimes you just.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Don't, Christine said. Danielle was devastated when Joe left her
for another woman, and a lot of her friends wondered
why she even considered getting back with him.
Speaker 12 (26:48):
No one understood why she even entertained the thought of
being with him again, but I did. I think as
a mom, you're thinking to your kid, so I understood.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Christine couldn't remember when exactly Danielle started dating Richard, but
she said she felt like there'd always been chemistry there.
Speaker 12 (27:08):
I think she always liked him from when we were younger,
just like a crush kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
At the time.
Speaker 12 (27:13):
I don't think he thought anything of her back then,
but I think she did.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
Then.
Speaker 12 (27:19):
I guess when we got older, and he was interested.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
It was like, well, when it came time to choosing
between Joe and Richard, Christine said she didn't push Danielle
one way or the other because she didn't want it
to seem like she was favoring her brother.
Speaker 12 (27:34):
Then I think there was a time where Danielle thought,
I don't want to be with either of them. I
need to get myself together.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I want you to hear a different point of view
from one of Danielle's other friends named Jeannette. Jeanette talked
with Danielle the day before she disappeared.
Speaker 13 (27:51):
Danielle's emotions were all over the place from day to day.
That's where she was. I think she was just trying
to figure things out.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
What went through your mind when you learn Danielle went
out with Richard.
Speaker 13 (28:06):
It wasn't a planned event that she was going to
meet Richard that night, and I know that for a fact.
So I was surprised that she went out and even
more surprised when she didn't come home.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Jeanette said she had plans with Danielle that Saturday, but
Danielle canceled.
Speaker 13 (28:25):
Danielle wanted to go to dinner with her mom and Christine,
and we had a phone conversation because I was planning
on going over there.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Did Danielle ever talk to you about her relationship with Richard?
Speaker 13 (28:37):
So that's a territory that I kind of want to
keep private.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
But I'm going to leave you with this.
Speaker 13 (28:47):
I never believed or was told any different that they
were a couple. Ever. Richard Patternaum was a shoulder and
a friend.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Christine has a different take. Ultimately, Christine believes Danielle wanted
to be with her brother.
Speaker 12 (29:08):
I think in her heart she wanted to be with him,
but I think it was a struggle take out the
kids and the divorce that she would have been with him.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
There's a reason we're spending so much time on Danielle
and Richard's relationship because it will play into what happened next.
Speaker 12 (29:28):
They dated pretty steadily for a few months, I know,
like that fall they were dating. I know Thanksgiving was
when Joe was calling Richard at work, like so it
was a good couple of months.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Wait, why was Joe calling Richard at work?
Speaker 12 (29:45):
It was like a busy day at the bakery and
he kept calling and calling and calling.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
According to Marge, Joe wasn't calling Richard to place a
bakery order.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Joe was threatening him with baseball.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Bat and said she also knew about the threats Joe
made to Richard.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I would say it was probably about three weeks before
he went missing. He said, he's threatening me, He's messaging me,
and it's to the point that I'm scared.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
FBI agent Peta Roselli was aware of the alleged phone
call and threat.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
We did find in our investigation the work conversations between
the two there was at least one explicit phone call exchange.
There was reference to a threat made about a baseball bat.
I don't know how much to put into that, because
emotions were high, and when emotions are high, embellishments are made.
(30:47):
That could have been an embellishment. That could have been
just a misinterpretation of what somebody was told. But I
did hear that, yes, And then both Richard's baby's mom,
Julie and their daughter Angela, they did mention that Richard said,
you know, if anything happened to me, it was the husband,
(31:10):
meaning Joe Wimbo.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
But in June of two thousand and five, Joe denied
threatening Richard. He told the Philadelphia Daily News that Richard
was the one who threatened him.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
We all thought that maybe it was going to lead
to a confrontational like maybe one day he's actually going
to show up to the bakery, and then a few
weeks after that he's gone.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
That's next time on There and Gone. If you have
any information about the disappearance of Danielle Imbo and Richard Patron,
please call the Citizens Crime Commission tip Line at two
on five five four six eight four seven seven, or
you can reach out to the show in our team
by email at Barren Gnpot at gmail dot com. That's
(32:01):
There and Gone pod at gmail dot com. Thank you
so much for listening. One way for you to show
support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts.
Don't forget to rate and review because five star reviews
go a long way. A big thank you to all
of our listeners. Therein Gon is a production of Glass Podcasts,
(32:22):
a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.
The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass, Ben Fetterman,
and me Andrea Gunning. It's hosted and written by me
Andrea Gunning, with additional reporting and writing by Ben Fetterman.
The series is also written and produced by Todd Gans.
Our associate producer is Kristin Melcyrie. Research by Mason Klinder,
(32:45):
Annah Hamilton, and Bella Riki. Our iHeart team is Ali
Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio,
additional editing support from Nico Aaruka and Tanner Robbins. Therein
Gon's and original compositions were composed by Oliver Bains and
Darry macaulay of Neuser Music Library provided by my Music
(33:08):
Special thanks to both the Patrone and tow Ray families.
For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts,
Hosts And Creators
Andrea Gunning
Ben Fetterman
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