July 29, 2024 • 32 mins
Danielle’s estranged husband had an alibi for the night Danielle and Richard disappeared. So, why does Richard’s family still believe he’s responsible? And why hasn’t law enforcement publicly cleared Joe? A theory from the FBI raises more questions than answers.
Reach out to the There and Gone Team by email at thereandgonepod@gmail.com.
If you have any tips on the disappearance of Richard Petrone and Danielle Imbo, please contact the Citizens Crime Commission at 215-546-TIPS (8477).
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And the FBI came here. All the questions were about Joe, Joe,
Jo Joe, Jojo, Jo Joe. They were nicest could be.
And I know they worked hard on this case, but
it was like for four hours they drove me about
Joe and didn't ask me one question about rich nothing.
And I remember saying, like you're gonna ask me anything
about who she was with.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'm Andre Gunning and this is there and Gone South
Street episode five. It's usually the husband.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
All I know is I say you in that dream,
reached out in the dog.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
For you, and.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
Last to me, I'll never give up, no matter.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
How I opened my eyes define Just a note, the
views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those
of the individuals participating. This podcast also contains subject matter
which may not be suitable for everyone. Discretion as advised.
(01:25):
Danielle Imbo owned a condo in Mount Laurel, New Jersey,
where she lived with her infant son. Just after Danielle
went missing, her estranged husband, Joe, moved back into that
condo to take care of their son. For Joe, it
was sort of a homecoming. About a year earlier, Joe
had an affair and moved out as he and Danielle
(01:45):
were headed toward a divorce. Joe relocated out of state
to be with the woman he met at the Super Bowl.
He later returned to the area and tried to win
Danielle back. On the night Danielle and her friend Richard
Patrone disappeared, Joe was watching their twenty month old son.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
The big thing I remembered was that our husband, Joe
had a huge target on him.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
That's journalist Steve Vulk, he covered the story for Philadelphia Magazine.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
The Mount Laurel Police they looked at him, and they
looked at him hard.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Very early in their investigation, Mount Laurel detectives questioned Joe.
At the time, Joe told the Philadelphia Daily News he
had quote nothing to hide, end quote, And Joe wasn't
the only vocal advocate for his innocence at the time.
Danielle's brother John and Tobray didn't publicly blame anyone, but
in two thousand and five, John told the Philadelphia Daily
(02:40):
News he didn't think Joe was responsible for Danielle and
Richard's disappearance. He added that the animosity between his family
and the Patrons was a quote waste of energy end quote. Instead,
John said he planned to keep an open mind, and
so did his mother, Felice at John's requests. We did
not see speak with Felise for this podcast, but Marge
(03:03):
remembers Felice's feelings on her son in law.
Speaker 7 (03:06):
Felice didn't want to believe it. Oh, he would never
do that.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
He would.
Speaker 7 (03:11):
I just remember fully saying the oddest thing like, oh,
but he was so extremely handsome. I went extremely handsome,
still got to do with anything.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
For Marge, she believed it was an open and shutcase
against Joe. Joe and Danielle's marriage was nearing its end.
Danielle had moved on and was dating Marge's son, Richard,
and that's why Joe had allegedly threatened him. But for
John and Felice, it wasn't just a hope and a
prayer that Joe Imbo wasn't responsible for this. Joe had
(03:42):
an alibi. FBI agent Fido Rosselli walked me through what
he learned about Joe's whereabouts. On February nineteenth, two thousand
and five.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Law enforcement found out where Joe Imbo was and they
were able to determine that Joe Imbo was not in
Philadelphia on the evening of Fibruary nineteenth. He was at
a family birthday party out in Tom's River.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Tom's River is about an hour from Danielle's condo in
New Jersey, and that's where Joe and his son were
that Saturday night. The same night Danielle and Richard vanished
off South Street.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
His mom and stepdad and some other family members had
a birthday party for the stepsister's kid.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Joe told police he and little Joe stayed over night
in Tom's River Saturday into Sunday.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
We confirmed his alibi. Joe Imbo on that weekend was
out of town. Joe was at a house with the
ex NYPD and the current detective.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Vido said. Joe's father in law, a retired NYPD cop,
and Joe's stepbrother in law, a New Jersey detective, both
vouched for Joe's alibi. So on the night Danielle vanished,
Joe was out of town, staying with family, some who
happened to be in law enforcement. But while Joe Joe
was at this birthday party in Toms River, we came
(05:02):
across some information that Joe may have been keeping tabs
on Danielle that night, But how was Joe doing that?
Let me walk you through what happened that night. Danielle
asked Christine Patron to drive her to a bar in
cel Philly where Richard, Christine's brother, was finishing dinner.
Speaker 8 (05:20):
I dropped her and I said, let me know he's
in there, like wave out the door because I'm like
leaving her at a corner bar. I waited, she went in,
and then she came out and waved.
Speaker 7 (05:30):
I was like, all right, and I left.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Christine said she drove to Champs, which was a sports bar,
to meet her coworkers, and when she got there, Christine
called Danielle to let her know she arrived there safely.
Speaker 8 (05:41):
And her voicemail came on and I said, I'm here.
I'm that cham so I'm fine, have fun, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
And then Christine's phone started ringing. It was Danielle.
Speaker 8 (05:52):
She called me back and I answered, and I'm like, oh,
I just wanted to tell you I'm here.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Danielle and Christine talked for a minute, and then Richard
grabbed the phone and inserted himself into the conversation. He
tried to convince Christine to come back to Philly to
join them at Abilene's.
Speaker 8 (06:08):
We're on our way to Sales Street. That's how I
knew where they were. And then he got on the phone,
come back, We're going to meet Anthony or who I knew,
and I said, I'm in Jersey. I've worked tomorrow. So
then we hung up. That was the last I ever
talked either of them. But backstory, Joe Imbo got that
(06:32):
voicemail that I left her.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So let's talk about that. Christine said she completely forgot
about that voicemail she had left for Danielle until weeks
later when she sat down with the police.
Speaker 8 (06:46):
In one of the interviews, I was mentioning where I was,
and one of the cops were like, oh, we know
you were at chance Joe heard your voicemail, and I'm
like what he was like, Yeah, he admitted to us
that he heard your voicemail.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
If you were wondering how Joe heard that voicemail, you
have to remember this was before smartphones when you could
dial into your voicemail from anywhere, provided you had the password.
Speaker 8 (07:13):
So that was a big sticking point with me because
I thought, well, now you know she's not with me.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
It was a sticking point for Christine because for her,
it was a clear sign that Joe knew Danielle's whereabouts
the night Danielle and Richard disappeared.
Speaker 8 (07:29):
I was like, well, he was listening to her voicemails.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I imagine if you're Joe Embo and the police are
showing you calls from your phone to your wife's voicemail,
the only thing to do is to come clean, and
that's what Joe did. In twenty fourteen, he admitted to
Philadelphia Magazine that yes, he did listen to Danielle's voicemail.
He was quote just being jealous.
Speaker 8 (07:54):
He said, I don't know how long he was listening
to her voicemails, but obviously he was.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Christine believes the fact that Joe heard her voicemail to
Danielle was a signal to Joe that Danielle was now
alone and potentially heading home.
Speaker 8 (08:12):
No matter what he thought was going on, I think
he knew at some point she would go home.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
We asked Fido about the voicemails.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
We spent a lot of time running down different allegations
from individuals. One was that Joe was calling into her
voicemail seeing who was calling his estranged wife. Obviously, we
investigated that and that's consistent with what we learned.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It's important to note Vito said there's no proof that
Joe acted on Christine's voicemail. Regardless, Christine believes whatever terrible
thing happened to her brother and Danielle went down at
Danielle's condo.
Speaker 8 (08:56):
I think somebody was waiting at her house.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
All right, So.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
We're just pulling into Danielle's.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Condo complex.
Speaker 9 (09:27):
Now.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
My colleague Ben and I drove to the neighborhood where
Danielle Imbo lived back in two thousand and five.
Speaker 10 (09:33):
It's almost like a small community.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, it kind of gives like a lake.
Speaker 10 (09:37):
Vib mountain lake vibe. Yeah, in the middle of Jersey.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Danielle's two bedroom to bath condo in Mount Laurel, New Jersey.
It's about twenty miles from downtown Philly, but it seems
so much further away from the city.
Speaker 9 (09:50):
I mean, this is a very large condo complex, like
tucked away. It's quiet, and I mean there are a
lot of cars.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
We parked just in front of Danielle's condo building where
Danielle lived with her infant son. Her building was one
of five different identical structures that enclosed the parking lot
we sat in. The three story brick building took up
half the block. It was surrounded by trees in a
quaint walkway that connected the complexes. Each unit had a balcony,
(10:22):
and I counted about twenty of them, meaning there were
twenty different condos in her building.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
I mean, just quick math, you probably have one hundred
possible eyes ears.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, there are a lot of eyeballs. I could almost
envision Danielle with her black hair cigarette in hand, standing
on her balcony.
Speaker 10 (10:47):
But just to think that.
Speaker 9 (10:49):
Your neighbor from here Bo's missing is a pretty crazy
thing to think about.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I don't know if whatever happened to Danielle and Richard
happened here, but if it did, it's hard to imagine
it would go unnoticed.
Speaker 11 (11:03):
There's a strong possibility that a neighbor would have seen something.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Mount Laurel is a small suburb tucked in the western
edge of Burlington County, New Jersey. Today, about forty five
thousand people call it home. Back in two thousand and five,
its population was slightly less. All to say, Mount Laurel
is small, and when one of its residents went missing,
it was a very big deal, and law enforcement found
itself dealing with the scenario they didn't see every day.
(11:31):
My team reached out to many of the original detectives
who worked the case. We learned most of them are
now retired. That being said, all of our outreach resulted
in one of two things. They either didn't return our
messages or simply did not want to talk to us period.
Since this case is still unsolved, I suppose it's understandable. Frustrating,
(11:54):
but understandable. We never heard back from the Mount Laurel
Police Department and South Detectives in Phille simply deferred comment
to the FBI. That led me back to Special Agent
Pudo Rosselli.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
When I was first assigned to this case, I had
to get with each one of those agencies and find
out what they knew.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Budo said. The FBI was the last agency to join
the investigation. The FBI was called in to assist about
three weeks after Richard and Danielle disappeared.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Everybody shared information, but there was an overabundance of information.
There's an overabundance of leads, So my initial thought was
trying to ferret through what would be the most likely
scenario and what had the most promising leads.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
And it wasn't easy. There may have been plenty of
information and leads, but there was no evidence.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
This investigation had no bodies, no truck, no evidence, and
so of course we focused on the most logical and
simplest explanation, which would be the estranged husband.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So let's talk about Joe Mbo. When Danielle disappeared in
two thousand and five, Joe was thirty three years old,
a year younger than Danielle. He was raised in upstate
New York, and just like Danielle and Richard, he also
came from a big Italian family.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
He had a couple of biological sisters and a stepsister.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Similar to Danielle, Joe lost his father at a young age.
He was just fourteen years old when his dad, Joseph Senior,
passed away. Joe's mom later remarried.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Joe was very close with his mom and did not
have a bad relationship with his stepdad, who was an
ex NYPD police officer.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
After high school, Joe moved west. He settled in San Diego.
That's where he lived for a few years before returning
to the Northeast. Joe was in New Jersey when his
car broke down near the dealership where Danielle worked. The
two started dating and got married in two thousand and one.
Joe admitted that he was not a great husband. In
twenty fourteen, he told Philadelphia Magazine did he quote fucked
(14:06):
up when he cheated on Danielle.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
I know that Joe stepped out on his wife and
the mother of his newborn child, and then we did
leave town for a period of time. I can't get
into the specifics about where he went, what we knew,
what we found out, but he did return about a
month before Richard and Danielle's disappearance.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I'm going to put together a timeline here. Joe cheated
on Danielle in February two thousand and four. He moved
out the following month and left the state, and according
to Vito, Joe returned to New Jersey sometime in January
two thousand and five. That was when Joe was trying
to win Danielle back.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
There was a lot of pressure, and there was a
lot of back and forth, and there was a lot
of people offering up a lot of opinions on the relationship.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Vito didn't elaborate on those opinions, but I could tell
he was choosing his words careful.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, I'll go as far as to say that their
relationship was not good. There were periods where Danielle is
trying to make it work out for their infant son,
and there were also arguments back and forth between Richard
and Joe. They'd never meet face to face, but yeah,
they didn't know of each other and they were in
(15:21):
their actions.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
As we already told you, Joe had an airtight alibi
the night Danielle and Richard vanished and law enforcement had
this to contend with.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Joe did not have a criminal record.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
But that didn't stop authorities from looking into him. In
two thousand and five, the Mount Laurel Police Department brought
Joe in for questioning. Here's journalist Steve Volk.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
Joe had a polygraph and John went with him.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
John, as in Danielle's brother John.
Speaker 6 (15:54):
He went because there's a relationship that's forming with the police. Here,
there's Joe who's going to continue to be a little
Joe's dad, and he wanted to be close to the result.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
We called John to ask him about that day, including
why he decided to go in the first place.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
It was so early on in the investigation and in
their disappearance that Joe was living in their condo.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
With the baby.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
And when they asked him, he asked me, He said,
will you go with me? I said sure. It was
important for me to know if Joe was involved or
not involved. One of the reasons was the safety of
my nephew.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
But John said the police didn't allow him to be
in the room for the polygraph.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
It's not like I was back there in the room
sitting next to the detective while they were asking him questions,
and it's not like the detectives. After they dismissed Joe said, Okay, John,
this is what we found to be true and not true.
We drove home and I didn't ask him what they
asked him. I figured he would volunteer that information. It's
still us sorry, And he didn't really say much or
(17:02):
volunteer much information that I didn't ask many questions.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
In two thousand and five, Joe told the Philadelphia Daily
News he passed his polygraph, and we asked Pudo to confirm.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
That you learned that Joe Imbo was polygraphed. But I
cannot get into the results of the polygraph, whether he
passed or failed.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
But here's what's interesting. The investigation into Joe Embo didn't
stop there. Instead, it went one giant step further into
the courtroom. Sometime around two thousand and nine, a grand
jury was convened to look into bringing charges against Joe.
The problem for us is that grand jury proceedings are
secret there sealed. In twenty fourteen, Joe confirmed a Philadelphia
(17:43):
magazine that a bunch of people who were close to
him were interviewed as part of that legal proceeding, but
the grand jury took no action, and since no formal
indictment was handed down, those grand jury records remain a secret. Today.
Speaker 11 (17:59):
I think every body focused on Joe one hundred percent
of the time in the very.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Beginning, Danielle's brother John, I mean, look.
Speaker 11 (18:06):
At everything they're going through, a nasty divorce, a custody battle,
and I have to pay child support. And Joe MBO
just so happens to be out of town that weekend
with the baby at a party and all the people
in the party were local police officers, and you know,
the perfect alibi if someone told me that, and I
didn't have any skin in the game, I'd be like guilty.
(18:29):
If I was an outsider looking in, I'd be like,
how are you not locking this guy up right now?
But when you're in it and you're living it, you
look at things differently. It's just not in him. It's
just listened. He's a lot of things, but he's not.
I just don't believe he's a murderer. I just don't.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
No matter what anyone thinks about his guilt or innocence,
Joe has never been charged. So why did this cloud
of suspicion continue to hang over him? The answer might
have to do with what the FBI said In two
thousand and eight, They revealed that Danielle and Richard might
have been victims of a murder for higher plot. Publicly,
(19:22):
the FBI didn't say much about their investigation for years,
but they did reveal something during a two thousand and
eight press conference. They said because the crime was so clean,
meaning Danielle and Richard's bodies and Richard's truck never turned up,
the FBI ruled out kidnapping and said they also didn't
believe it was a random act of violence. Instead, the
(19:43):
FBI said leads and tips led them to believe Danielle
and Richard might have been victims of a murder. For
higher plot, this just didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
We feel that this was an orchestrated act.
Speaker 12 (19:55):
Again, three thousand pounds struck and two people do not
simply go missing.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
For the first time, the FBI said the case was
being looked at as a possible double murder. They also
believed this scheme was orchestrated by more than one person.
Speaker 13 (20:10):
Investigators now say it was not an accident and no
crime of opportunity. They say Patron and Imbo were the
victims of a professional hit job at the hands of
war than one person.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
The FBI said they were actively and aggressively pursuing leads,
but they provided few other specifics except this.
Speaker 14 (20:30):
No one has been ruled out as a suspect at
this time.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I asked FIDO about the FBI's murder for Higher theory.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
To set the stage. Of February nineteenth, two thousand and five,
Danielle had plans to go out with her mom and
Richard's sister and have a night out in Philadelphia. Rich
did reach out to Danielle aster to meet him. She
didn't commit off the bat, but later on agreed to
meet him. They went to Abiling's around nine pm and
(21:01):
had a good time for a couple hours. They left
between eleven thirty and eleven forty five, and that was
the last time they were reportedly seen walking out of
Abilene's on disastery. So the common sense is, well, this
wasn't a concerted effort targeting both of them because nobody
really knew that they were going out that night except
(21:21):
for you know, Richard's sister and a couple of other folks.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Because so few people knew Danielle and Richard would be
together that night, the FBI theorized they both weren't the target.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
If in fact it was a targeted act of violence,
it was most likely targeted against one person, either Danielle
or Richard, and the other one was in the wrong
place at the wrong time.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
There are two things I want to underscore here. The
first is that the FBI said Danielle and Richard might
have been victims of a murder for higher plot, there
was never a confirmation that that is what happened. The
second is that the murder for higher news did not
surprise the families of either victims.
Speaker 11 (22:05):
Listen, we all know it's not a random act of violence.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Danielle's brother John, it has to.
Speaker 11 (22:12):
Be something in Danielle's background, something in Richard's background, or
Joe Mbo.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Something in Danielle's background, Richard's background or Joe Imbo. Those
words John told me actually got him in trouble. Back
in two thousand and five, Marge.
Speaker 11 (22:29):
And myself we were interviewed in this magazine, and I
always asked who I felt was responsible, and I flat
outsid it could be Joe, it could be Richard, it
could be the man on the moon. I don't know
who's responsible.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
If you think about it, It's common practice for the
police to look into the backgrounds of both victims. But
the fact that John said it out loud to a
reporter did not sit well with Marge.
Speaker 14 (22:59):
They tried a way possible to say things and rumors
that it could have been Richard.
Speaker 11 (23:04):
Marge read the article and she called my mother, screaming
an honor, saying that I'm portraying her son as the
monster and a bad guy. How dare I do that?
Speaker 7 (23:15):
I said, so, you're protecting Joe. I don't get it.
What are you protecting him for?
Speaker 11 (23:20):
Logically is a joke? I mean it could be, But
do we know anything about this guy that she was
out with. We really know anything about him other than
the fact that it's Marge and Richardson? Who were his friends?
Who's he hanging out with? Does he do drugs? Does
he owe money to anybody? Does he damble? What do
you know? So is it responsible for us to rule
(23:41):
him out?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Really?
Speaker 11 (23:42):
Is it really responsible to rule him out?
Speaker 14 (23:44):
Yet? I said I didn't race Houdini.
Speaker 7 (23:46):
I don't know.
Speaker 14 (23:47):
Hollie could have made them both disappear in his truck
for what reason?
Speaker 7 (23:51):
They wanted to get married to her?
Speaker 14 (23:53):
I mean he wasn't It was this, they went on
a date and no, No, he's.
Speaker 11 (23:59):
Your son, and in your eyes he's innocent, But in
my eyes, he's just some guy. My sister was with him.
Speaker 14 (24:05):
Nothing his background would have ever led to that. No
one was looking to kill Richard.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
No one.
Speaker 11 (24:12):
Listen. You're standing on a soapbox telling everybody it was
Danielle's husband. You're basically blaming my sister for your son's
death because of the guy she married. Right so forth,
if my Richard wasn't out with Danielle, he would still
be alive. You have every right to think that that's
your son. You have every right to think that, and
I have every right to think that maybe your son
(24:33):
could be involved too, because I don't know. He's just
as responsible as anybody else.
Speaker 7 (24:39):
I'm sorry, believe me.
Speaker 14 (24:41):
It is so far beyond my imagination that they could
have even thought that Richard would have been anyway at
all involved in what happened, because it was definitely murder
for hire for Danielle.
Speaker 7 (24:55):
Not for Richard.
Speaker 11 (24:56):
The only thing I can say for certain is that
she was I know my sister didn't have anything that
she did, like a business decision or a shady backdoor
deal or in the mortgage business, that caused this to happen.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
John and his wife Jody are certain nothing in Danielle's
background was to blame for what happened to her, and
in the initial days of the investigation, they felt law
enforcement had a singular focus.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
When the FBI came here, all the questions were about Joe, Joe, Jojoe,
Jojo Jojoe, and I remember saying, like, are you going
to ask me anything about who she was with?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Okay, I will say that Jody makes a good point.
Like the FBI, we also have devoted a lot of
time to Joe imbo, but hearing Jody question Richard's background,
it was kind of hard to hear. But it is
my job to explore everything to me.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I find it very odd that she broke it off
with him. They don't see each other for three and
a half weeks, and she was out with Christine and
Marge and Felice, and out of the blue, rich calls
her and says, let's meet up for a drink. A
band's playing, and I'm here with my friend and she
went and she's never seen again, while Joe is at
(26:16):
a family party with fifty witnesses. It just didn't make
sense to me, and I kept saying, do you think
you're concentrating too much on Joe and you're missing something?
I mean, for four hours, they drove me about Joe
and didn't ask me one question about rich I felt
like they weren't going in that direction.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Law enforcement may not have asked about Richard, but others did.
I learned from Richard's friend Frank that back in two
thousand and five, there was a website set up by
Danielle and Richard's families. It was intended to get leads
and tips. About what happened. But things quickly fell off
the rails.
Speaker 10 (26:55):
You couldn't even go on that web because you start
reading things and get crazy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Frank said that the website quickly became an outlet for
rumors and innuendo, mostly involving Richard.
Speaker 10 (27:06):
They started blaming Rick, saying, oh, you know, look company
Joe or Danielle, how did do something in Richard's past
or something like that, saying his past quote up with him.
Blah blah blah. She was just at the wrong place
at the wrong time.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
One such rumor accused Richard of being a drug.
Speaker 10 (27:22):
Dealer, like the party a little bit. Yeah, he wasn't
a drug dealer.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I asked Richard's friend Anthony Valentino, if Richard was into drugs.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
I mean, we all did a little bit of something
here and there. Somebody could get a bag weed one day,
someone could get a bag weed the other day. It
wasn't like we were like scarface or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Richard's ex girlfriend Julie confirmed.
Speaker 12 (27:44):
That he smoked pott. I don't really think that anybody's
going to make somebody disappear for marijuana.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Most states have sinceed ease laws on marijuana. But back
then pott was illegal, and so was gambling, at least
outside of a casino, which is another rumor you've heard
about Richard. In twenty fourteen, Marge told The Courier Post
that Richard despised gambling, but his ex girlfriend Julie told
us Richard sometimes bet on football.
Speaker 12 (28:10):
Yeah, he did like to gamble. I was aware of it.
But if it was that he owed money to somebody,
he could have went to his father, you know, if
he'd the interne of money.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Again, this was long before gambling was legalized.
Speaker 10 (28:23):
We all watched to gamble on the weekend.
Speaker 15 (28:24):
So we said get to someday inquired and get the
sports section with all the helmets back then and pick
the games.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Frank said, the Richard he knew lived paycheck to paycheck.
Speaker 10 (28:34):
He wasn't a day gamber because he didn't like to
lose money.
Speaker 14 (28:36):
He was cheap.
Speaker 10 (28:37):
He was cheap paid the samebody.
Speaker 14 (28:38):
He was cheap.
Speaker 10 (28:39):
He wasn't one had gotten buy all nice clothes and
nice cars and stuff like that. Now, wasn't He wasn't
like that.
Speaker 12 (28:46):
Even if it was that Richard owed money for gambling,
why would they do something to Danielle. The people that
deal with that kind of stuff don't harm women.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
One rumor upset Frank the most. It alleged that Richard
was so upset about Danielle not wanting to be with
him that he flew into a jealous rage and killed Danielle.
Speaker 15 (29:06):
That PIB was the biggest thing when I heard that
that you did out of the jealous rage and stuff
like that.
Speaker 10 (29:11):
And there's no way he was like that. He just
was not that tight.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Frank and Julie were close with Richard. I would expect
them to defend him. That's why I also asked Fido
if the FBI looked into these rumors.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
There are allegations of Richard being a big time bookie
and a big time drug dealer. He was not Pablo Escobar,
not by a long shot. He was not John Gottie
running a lone shark and gambling operation that panned out
to be a bunch of bs. I found nothing that
would indicate it was anything in Richard's backgrounds that would
(29:50):
have led to this, And the same thing with Danielle.
Nothing in her backgrounds would indicate anything that would lead
to something like this.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
If Youdo didn't find anything in Danielle or Richard's background.
That again left us with Joe Imbo.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
We did some digging into his family to see if
we could uncover anything, and it would be inappropriate for
me to comment on the content of those conversations.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
This has to be so frustrating for both of the victims'
families and even for Joe, because they've never put cuffs
on Joe, haven't ruled him a suspect, and yet they
haven't cleared him either. So where does that leave us?
Who could have pulled this off and why? Well, when
you start asking people about this case, there's no shortage
(30:39):
of theories, rumors, and opinions about what happened and who
might be responsible.
Speaker 16 (30:45):
I've covered somewhere between three thousand and five thousand homicides
in his city over the course of my career, and
there was a rumor that the car was taken one
place and the bodies were taken somewhere else, that the
car must have been destroyed, that it must have been
crushed at a junkyard.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
That's next time on there and gone South Street. If
you have any information about the disappearance of Danielle Imbo
and Richard Patron. Please call the Citizens Crime Commission tip
Line at two on five five four six eight four
seven seven, or you can reach out to the show
(31:30):
in our team by email at varrengonpod at gmail dot com.
That's there and gonepod at gmail dot com. Thank you
so much for listening. One way for you to show
support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts.
Don't forget to rate and review because five star reviews
go a long way. A big thank you to all
(31:51):
of our listeners. Therein Gone is a production of Glass Podcasts,
a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.
The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass, Ben Fetterman,
and me Andrea Gunning. It's hosted and written by me
Andrea Gunning, with additional reporting and writing by Ben Fetterman.
The series is also written and produced by Todd Gans.
(32:14):
Our associate producer is Kristin Melcurrie. Research by Mason Klinder,
Annah Hamilton and Bella Riki. Our iHeart team is Ali
Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt
del Vecchio. Additional editing support by Nico Aruka there in.
Gonn's theme and original compositions were composed by Oliver Bains
(32:34):
and Darry mcaulay of Neusier Music Library, provided by My
Music Special thanks to both the Patrone and tow Ray families.
For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple
Podcasts for wherever you get your podcasts.
And the FBI came here. All the questions were about Joe, Joe,
Jo Joe, Jojo, Jo Joe. They were nicest could be.
And I know they worked hard on this case, but
it was like for four hours they drove me about
Joe and didn't ask me one question about rich nothing.
And I remember saying, like you're gonna ask me anything
about who she was with.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'm Andre Gunning and this is there and Gone South
Street episode five. It's usually the husband.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
All I know is I say you in that dream,
reached out in the dog.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
For you, and.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
Last to me, I'll never give up, no matter.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
How I opened my eyes define Just a note, the
views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those
of the individuals participating. This podcast also contains subject matter
which may not be suitable for everyone. Discretion as advised.
(01:25):
Danielle Imbo owned a condo in Mount Laurel, New Jersey,
where she lived with her infant son. Just after Danielle
went missing, her estranged husband, Joe, moved back into that
condo to take care of their son. For Joe, it
was sort of a homecoming. About a year earlier, Joe
had an affair and moved out as he and Danielle
(01:45):
were headed toward a divorce. Joe relocated out of state
to be with the woman he met at the Super Bowl.
He later returned to the area and tried to win
Danielle back. On the night Danielle and her friend Richard
Patrone disappeared, Joe was watching their twenty month old son.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
The big thing I remembered was that our husband, Joe
had a huge target on him.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
That's journalist Steve Vulk, he covered the story for Philadelphia Magazine.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
The Mount Laurel Police they looked at him, and they
looked at him hard.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Very early in their investigation, Mount Laurel detectives questioned Joe.
At the time, Joe told the Philadelphia Daily News he
had quote nothing to hide, end quote, And Joe wasn't
the only vocal advocate for his innocence at the time.
Danielle's brother John and Tobray didn't publicly blame anyone, but
in two thousand and five, John told the Philadelphia Daily
(02:40):
News he didn't think Joe was responsible for Danielle and
Richard's disappearance. He added that the animosity between his family
and the Patrons was a quote waste of energy end quote. Instead,
John said he planned to keep an open mind, and
so did his mother, Felice at John's requests. We did
not see speak with Felise for this podcast, but Marge
(03:03):
remembers Felice's feelings on her son in law.
Speaker 7 (03:06):
Felice didn't want to believe it. Oh, he would never
do that.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
He would.
Speaker 7 (03:11):
I just remember fully saying the oddest thing like, oh,
but he was so extremely handsome. I went extremely handsome,
still got to do with anything.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
For Marge, she believed it was an open and shutcase
against Joe. Joe and Danielle's marriage was nearing its end.
Danielle had moved on and was dating Marge's son, Richard,
and that's why Joe had allegedly threatened him. But for
John and Felice, it wasn't just a hope and a
prayer that Joe Imbo wasn't responsible for this. Joe had
(03:42):
an alibi. FBI agent Fido Rosselli walked me through what
he learned about Joe's whereabouts. On February nineteenth, two thousand
and five.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Law enforcement found out where Joe Imbo was and they
were able to determine that Joe Imbo was not in
Philadelphia on the evening of Fibruary nineteenth. He was at
a family birthday party out in Tom's River.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Tom's River is about an hour from Danielle's condo in
New Jersey, and that's where Joe and his son were
that Saturday night. The same night Danielle and Richard vanished
off South Street.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
His mom and stepdad and some other family members had
a birthday party for the stepsister's kid.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Joe told police he and little Joe stayed over night
in Tom's River Saturday into Sunday.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
We confirmed his alibi. Joe Imbo on that weekend was
out of town. Joe was at a house with the
ex NYPD and the current detective.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Vido said. Joe's father in law, a retired NYPD cop,
and Joe's stepbrother in law, a New Jersey detective, both
vouched for Joe's alibi. So on the night Danielle vanished,
Joe was out of town, staying with family, some who
happened to be in law enforcement. But while Joe Joe
was at this birthday party in Toms River, we came
(05:02):
across some information that Joe may have been keeping tabs
on Danielle that night, But how was Joe doing that?
Let me walk you through what happened that night. Danielle
asked Christine Patron to drive her to a bar in
cel Philly where Richard, Christine's brother, was finishing dinner.
Speaker 8 (05:20):
I dropped her and I said, let me know he's
in there, like wave out the door because I'm like
leaving her at a corner bar. I waited, she went in,
and then she came out and waved.
Speaker 7 (05:30):
I was like, all right, and I left.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Christine said she drove to Champs, which was a sports bar,
to meet her coworkers, and when she got there, Christine
called Danielle to let her know she arrived there safely.
Speaker 8 (05:41):
And her voicemail came on and I said, I'm here.
I'm that cham so I'm fine, have fun, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
And then Christine's phone started ringing. It was Danielle.
Speaker 8 (05:52):
She called me back and I answered, and I'm like, oh,
I just wanted to tell you I'm here.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Danielle and Christine talked for a minute, and then Richard
grabbed the phone and inserted himself into the conversation. He
tried to convince Christine to come back to Philly to
join them at Abilene's.
Speaker 8 (06:08):
We're on our way to Sales Street. That's how I
knew where they were. And then he got on the phone,
come back, We're going to meet Anthony or who I knew,
and I said, I'm in Jersey. I've worked tomorrow. So
then we hung up. That was the last I ever
talked either of them. But backstory, Joe Imbo got that
(06:32):
voicemail that I left her.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So let's talk about that. Christine said she completely forgot
about that voicemail she had left for Danielle until weeks
later when she sat down with the police.
Speaker 8 (06:46):
In one of the interviews, I was mentioning where I was,
and one of the cops were like, oh, we know
you were at chance Joe heard your voicemail, and I'm
like what he was like, Yeah, he admitted to us
that he heard your voicemail.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
If you were wondering how Joe heard that voicemail, you
have to remember this was before smartphones when you could
dial into your voicemail from anywhere, provided you had the password.
Speaker 8 (07:13):
So that was a big sticking point with me because
I thought, well, now you know she's not with me.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
It was a sticking point for Christine because for her,
it was a clear sign that Joe knew Danielle's whereabouts
the night Danielle and Richard disappeared.
Speaker 8 (07:29):
I was like, well, he was listening to her voicemails.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I imagine if you're Joe Embo and the police are
showing you calls from your phone to your wife's voicemail,
the only thing to do is to come clean, and
that's what Joe did. In twenty fourteen, he admitted to
Philadelphia Magazine that yes, he did listen to Danielle's voicemail.
He was quote just being jealous.
Speaker 8 (07:54):
He said, I don't know how long he was listening
to her voicemails, but obviously he was.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Christine believes the fact that Joe heard her voicemail to
Danielle was a signal to Joe that Danielle was now
alone and potentially heading home.
Speaker 8 (08:12):
No matter what he thought was going on, I think
he knew at some point she would go home.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
We asked Fido about the voicemails.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
We spent a lot of time running down different allegations
from individuals. One was that Joe was calling into her
voicemail seeing who was calling his estranged wife. Obviously, we
investigated that and that's consistent with what we learned.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It's important to note Vito said there's no proof that
Joe acted on Christine's voicemail. Regardless, Christine believes whatever terrible
thing happened to her brother and Danielle went down at
Danielle's condo.
Speaker 8 (08:56):
I think somebody was waiting at her house.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
All right, So.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
We're just pulling into Danielle's.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Condo complex.
Speaker 9 (09:27):
Now.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
My colleague Ben and I drove to the neighborhood where
Danielle Imbo lived back in two thousand and five.
Speaker 10 (09:33):
It's almost like a small community.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, it kind of gives like a lake.
Speaker 10 (09:37):
Vib mountain lake vibe. Yeah, in the middle of Jersey.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Danielle's two bedroom to bath condo in Mount Laurel, New Jersey.
It's about twenty miles from downtown Philly, but it seems
so much further away from the city.
Speaker 9 (09:50):
I mean, this is a very large condo complex, like
tucked away. It's quiet, and I mean there are a
lot of cars.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
We parked just in front of Danielle's condo building where
Danielle lived with her infant son. Her building was one
of five different identical structures that enclosed the parking lot
we sat in. The three story brick building took up
half the block. It was surrounded by trees in a
quaint walkway that connected the complexes. Each unit had a balcony,
(10:22):
and I counted about twenty of them, meaning there were
twenty different condos in her building.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
I mean, just quick math, you probably have one hundred
possible eyes ears.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, there are a lot of eyeballs. I could almost
envision Danielle with her black hair cigarette in hand, standing
on her balcony.
Speaker 10 (10:47):
But just to think that.
Speaker 9 (10:49):
Your neighbor from here Bo's missing is a pretty crazy
thing to think about.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I don't know if whatever happened to Danielle and Richard
happened here, but if it did, it's hard to imagine
it would go unnoticed.
Speaker 11 (11:03):
There's a strong possibility that a neighbor would have seen something.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Mount Laurel is a small suburb tucked in the western
edge of Burlington County, New Jersey. Today, about forty five
thousand people call it home. Back in two thousand and five,
its population was slightly less. All to say, Mount Laurel
is small, and when one of its residents went missing,
it was a very big deal, and law enforcement found
itself dealing with the scenario they didn't see every day.
(11:31):
My team reached out to many of the original detectives
who worked the case. We learned most of them are
now retired. That being said, all of our outreach resulted
in one of two things. They either didn't return our
messages or simply did not want to talk to us period.
Since this case is still unsolved, I suppose it's understandable. Frustrating,
(11:54):
but understandable. We never heard back from the Mount Laurel
Police Department and South Detectives in Phille simply deferred comment
to the FBI. That led me back to Special Agent
Pudo Rosselli.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
When I was first assigned to this case, I had
to get with each one of those agencies and find
out what they knew.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Budo said. The FBI was the last agency to join
the investigation. The FBI was called in to assist about
three weeks after Richard and Danielle disappeared.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Everybody shared information, but there was an overabundance of information.
There's an overabundance of leads, So my initial thought was
trying to ferret through what would be the most likely
scenario and what had the most promising leads.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
And it wasn't easy. There may have been plenty of
information and leads, but there was no evidence.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
This investigation had no bodies, no truck, no evidence, and
so of course we focused on the most logical and
simplest explanation, which would be the estranged husband.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So let's talk about Joe Mbo. When Danielle disappeared in
two thousand and five, Joe was thirty three years old,
a year younger than Danielle. He was raised in upstate
New York, and just like Danielle and Richard, he also
came from a big Italian family.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
He had a couple of biological sisters and a stepsister.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Similar to Danielle, Joe lost his father at a young age.
He was just fourteen years old when his dad, Joseph Senior,
passed away. Joe's mom later remarried.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Joe was very close with his mom and did not
have a bad relationship with his stepdad, who was an
ex NYPD police officer.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
After high school, Joe moved west. He settled in San Diego.
That's where he lived for a few years before returning
to the Northeast. Joe was in New Jersey when his
car broke down near the dealership where Danielle worked. The
two started dating and got married in two thousand and one.
Joe admitted that he was not a great husband. In
twenty fourteen, he told Philadelphia Magazine did he quote fucked
(14:06):
up when he cheated on Danielle.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
I know that Joe stepped out on his wife and
the mother of his newborn child, and then we did
leave town for a period of time. I can't get
into the specifics about where he went, what we knew,
what we found out, but he did return about a
month before Richard and Danielle's disappearance.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I'm going to put together a timeline here. Joe cheated
on Danielle in February two thousand and four. He moved
out the following month and left the state, and according
to Vito, Joe returned to New Jersey sometime in January
two thousand and five. That was when Joe was trying
to win Danielle back.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
There was a lot of pressure, and there was a
lot of back and forth, and there was a lot
of people offering up a lot of opinions on the relationship.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Vito didn't elaborate on those opinions, but I could tell
he was choosing his words careful.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, I'll go as far as to say that their
relationship was not good. There were periods where Danielle is
trying to make it work out for their infant son,
and there were also arguments back and forth between Richard
and Joe. They'd never meet face to face, but yeah,
they didn't know of each other and they were in
(15:21):
their actions.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
As we already told you, Joe had an airtight alibi
the night Danielle and Richard vanished and law enforcement had
this to contend with.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Joe did not have a criminal record.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
But that didn't stop authorities from looking into him. In
two thousand and five, the Mount Laurel Police Department brought
Joe in for questioning. Here's journalist Steve Volk.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
Joe had a polygraph and John went with him.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
John, as in Danielle's brother John.
Speaker 6 (15:54):
He went because there's a relationship that's forming with the police. Here,
there's Joe who's going to continue to be a little
Joe's dad, and he wanted to be close to the result.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
We called John to ask him about that day, including
why he decided to go in the first place.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
It was so early on in the investigation and in
their disappearance that Joe was living in their condo.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
With the baby.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
And when they asked him, he asked me, He said,
will you go with me? I said sure. It was
important for me to know if Joe was involved or
not involved. One of the reasons was the safety of
my nephew.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
But John said the police didn't allow him to be
in the room for the polygraph.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
It's not like I was back there in the room
sitting next to the detective while they were asking him questions,
and it's not like the detectives. After they dismissed Joe said, Okay, John,
this is what we found to be true and not true.
We drove home and I didn't ask him what they
asked him. I figured he would volunteer that information. It's
still us sorry, And he didn't really say much or
(17:02):
volunteer much information that I didn't ask many questions.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
In two thousand and five, Joe told the Philadelphia Daily
News he passed his polygraph, and we asked Pudo to confirm.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
That you learned that Joe Imbo was polygraphed. But I
cannot get into the results of the polygraph, whether he
passed or failed.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
But here's what's interesting. The investigation into Joe Embo didn't
stop there. Instead, it went one giant step further into
the courtroom. Sometime around two thousand and nine, a grand
jury was convened to look into bringing charges against Joe.
The problem for us is that grand jury proceedings are
secret there sealed. In twenty fourteen, Joe confirmed a Philadelphia
(17:43):
magazine that a bunch of people who were close to
him were interviewed as part of that legal proceeding, but
the grand jury took no action, and since no formal
indictment was handed down, those grand jury records remain a secret. Today.
Speaker 11 (17:59):
I think every body focused on Joe one hundred percent
of the time in the very.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Beginning, Danielle's brother John, I mean, look.
Speaker 11 (18:06):
At everything they're going through, a nasty divorce, a custody battle,
and I have to pay child support. And Joe MBO
just so happens to be out of town that weekend
with the baby at a party and all the people
in the party were local police officers, and you know,
the perfect alibi if someone told me that, and I
didn't have any skin in the game, I'd be like guilty.
(18:29):
If I was an outsider looking in, I'd be like,
how are you not locking this guy up right now?
But when you're in it and you're living it, you
look at things differently. It's just not in him. It's
just listened. He's a lot of things, but he's not.
I just don't believe he's a murderer. I just don't.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
No matter what anyone thinks about his guilt or innocence,
Joe has never been charged. So why did this cloud
of suspicion continue to hang over him? The answer might
have to do with what the FBI said In two
thousand and eight, They revealed that Danielle and Richard might
have been victims of a murder for higher plot. Publicly,
(19:22):
the FBI didn't say much about their investigation for years,
but they did reveal something during a two thousand and
eight press conference. They said because the crime was so clean,
meaning Danielle and Richard's bodies and Richard's truck never turned up,
the FBI ruled out kidnapping and said they also didn't
believe it was a random act of violence. Instead, the
(19:43):
FBI said leads and tips led them to believe Danielle
and Richard might have been victims of a murder. For
higher plot, this just didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
We feel that this was an orchestrated act.
Speaker 12 (19:55):
Again, three thousand pounds struck and two people do not
simply go missing.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
For the first time, the FBI said the case was
being looked at as a possible double murder. They also
believed this scheme was orchestrated by more than one person.
Speaker 13 (20:10):
Investigators now say it was not an accident and no
crime of opportunity. They say Patron and Imbo were the
victims of a professional hit job at the hands of
war than one person.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
The FBI said they were actively and aggressively pursuing leads,
but they provided few other specifics except this.
Speaker 14 (20:30):
No one has been ruled out as a suspect at
this time.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I asked FIDO about the FBI's murder for Higher theory.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
To set the stage. Of February nineteenth, two thousand and five,
Danielle had plans to go out with her mom and
Richard's sister and have a night out in Philadelphia. Rich
did reach out to Danielle aster to meet him. She
didn't commit off the bat, but later on agreed to
meet him. They went to Abiling's around nine pm and
(21:01):
had a good time for a couple hours. They left
between eleven thirty and eleven forty five, and that was
the last time they were reportedly seen walking out of
Abilene's on disastery. So the common sense is, well, this
wasn't a concerted effort targeting both of them because nobody
really knew that they were going out that night except
(21:21):
for you know, Richard's sister and a couple of other folks.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Because so few people knew Danielle and Richard would be
together that night, the FBI theorized they both weren't the target.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
If in fact it was a targeted act of violence,
it was most likely targeted against one person, either Danielle
or Richard, and the other one was in the wrong
place at the wrong time.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
There are two things I want to underscore here. The
first is that the FBI said Danielle and Richard might
have been victims of a murder for higher plot, there
was never a confirmation that that is what happened. The
second is that the murder for higher news did not
surprise the families of either victims.
Speaker 11 (22:05):
Listen, we all know it's not a random act of violence.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Danielle's brother John, it has to.
Speaker 11 (22:12):
Be something in Danielle's background, something in Richard's background, or
Joe Mbo.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Something in Danielle's background, Richard's background or Joe Imbo. Those
words John told me actually got him in trouble. Back
in two thousand and five, Marge.
Speaker 11 (22:29):
And myself we were interviewed in this magazine, and I
always asked who I felt was responsible, and I flat
outsid it could be Joe, it could be Richard, it
could be the man on the moon. I don't know
who's responsible.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
If you think about it, It's common practice for the
police to look into the backgrounds of both victims. But
the fact that John said it out loud to a
reporter did not sit well with Marge.
Speaker 14 (22:59):
They tried a way possible to say things and rumors
that it could have been Richard.
Speaker 11 (23:04):
Marge read the article and she called my mother, screaming
an honor, saying that I'm portraying her son as the
monster and a bad guy. How dare I do that?
Speaker 7 (23:15):
I said, so, you're protecting Joe. I don't get it.
What are you protecting him for?
Speaker 11 (23:20):
Logically is a joke? I mean it could be, But
do we know anything about this guy that she was
out with. We really know anything about him other than
the fact that it's Marge and Richardson? Who were his friends?
Who's he hanging out with? Does he do drugs? Does
he owe money to anybody? Does he damble? What do
you know? So is it responsible for us to rule
(23:41):
him out?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Really?
Speaker 11 (23:42):
Is it really responsible to rule him out?
Speaker 14 (23:44):
Yet? I said I didn't race Houdini.
Speaker 7 (23:46):
I don't know.
Speaker 14 (23:47):
Hollie could have made them both disappear in his truck
for what reason?
Speaker 7 (23:51):
They wanted to get married to her?
Speaker 14 (23:53):
I mean he wasn't It was this, they went on
a date and no, No, he's.
Speaker 11 (23:59):
Your son, and in your eyes he's innocent, But in
my eyes, he's just some guy. My sister was with him.
Speaker 14 (24:05):
Nothing his background would have ever led to that. No
one was looking to kill Richard.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
No one.
Speaker 11 (24:12):
Listen. You're standing on a soapbox telling everybody it was
Danielle's husband. You're basically blaming my sister for your son's
death because of the guy she married. Right so forth,
if my Richard wasn't out with Danielle, he would still
be alive. You have every right to think that that's
your son. You have every right to think that, and
I have every right to think that maybe your son
(24:33):
could be involved too, because I don't know. He's just
as responsible as anybody else.
Speaker 7 (24:39):
I'm sorry, believe me.
Speaker 14 (24:41):
It is so far beyond my imagination that they could
have even thought that Richard would have been anyway at
all involved in what happened, because it was definitely murder
for hire for Danielle.
Speaker 7 (24:55):
Not for Richard.
Speaker 11 (24:56):
The only thing I can say for certain is that
she was I know my sister didn't have anything that
she did, like a business decision or a shady backdoor
deal or in the mortgage business, that caused this to happen.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
John and his wife Jody are certain nothing in Danielle's
background was to blame for what happened to her, and
in the initial days of the investigation, they felt law
enforcement had a singular focus.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
When the FBI came here, all the questions were about Joe, Joe, Jojoe,
Jojo Jojoe, and I remember saying, like, are you going
to ask me anything about who she was with?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Okay, I will say that Jody makes a good point.
Like the FBI, we also have devoted a lot of
time to Joe imbo, but hearing Jody question Richard's background,
it was kind of hard to hear. But it is
my job to explore everything to me.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I find it very odd that she broke it off
with him. They don't see each other for three and
a half weeks, and she was out with Christine and
Marge and Felice, and out of the blue, rich calls
her and says, let's meet up for a drink. A
band's playing, and I'm here with my friend and she
went and she's never seen again, while Joe is at
(26:16):
a family party with fifty witnesses. It just didn't make
sense to me, and I kept saying, do you think
you're concentrating too much on Joe and you're missing something?
I mean, for four hours, they drove me about Joe
and didn't ask me one question about rich I felt
like they weren't going in that direction.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Law enforcement may not have asked about Richard, but others did.
I learned from Richard's friend Frank that back in two
thousand and five, there was a website set up by
Danielle and Richard's families. It was intended to get leads
and tips. About what happened. But things quickly fell off
the rails.
Speaker 10 (26:55):
You couldn't even go on that web because you start
reading things and get crazy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Frank said that the website quickly became an outlet for
rumors and innuendo, mostly involving Richard.
Speaker 10 (27:06):
They started blaming Rick, saying, oh, you know, look company
Joe or Danielle, how did do something in Richard's past
or something like that, saying his past quote up with him.
Blah blah blah. She was just at the wrong place
at the wrong time.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
One such rumor accused Richard of being a drug.
Speaker 10 (27:22):
Dealer, like the party a little bit. Yeah, he wasn't
a drug dealer.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I asked Richard's friend Anthony Valentino, if Richard was into drugs.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
I mean, we all did a little bit of something
here and there. Somebody could get a bag weed one day,
someone could get a bag weed the other day. It
wasn't like we were like scarface or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Richard's ex girlfriend Julie confirmed.
Speaker 12 (27:44):
That he smoked pott. I don't really think that anybody's
going to make somebody disappear for marijuana.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Most states have sinceed ease laws on marijuana. But back
then pott was illegal, and so was gambling, at least
outside of a casino, which is another rumor you've heard
about Richard. In twenty fourteen, Marge told The Courier Post
that Richard despised gambling, but his ex girlfriend Julie told
us Richard sometimes bet on football.
Speaker 12 (28:10):
Yeah, he did like to gamble. I was aware of it.
But if it was that he owed money to somebody,
he could have went to his father, you know, if
he'd the interne of money.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Again, this was long before gambling was legalized.
Speaker 10 (28:23):
We all watched to gamble on the weekend.
Speaker 15 (28:24):
So we said get to someday inquired and get the
sports section with all the helmets back then and pick
the games.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Frank said, the Richard he knew lived paycheck to paycheck.
Speaker 10 (28:34):
He wasn't a day gamber because he didn't like to
lose money.
Speaker 14 (28:36):
He was cheap.
Speaker 10 (28:37):
He was cheap paid the samebody.
Speaker 14 (28:38):
He was cheap.
Speaker 10 (28:39):
He wasn't one had gotten buy all nice clothes and
nice cars and stuff like that. Now, wasn't He wasn't
like that.
Speaker 12 (28:46):
Even if it was that Richard owed money for gambling,
why would they do something to Danielle. The people that
deal with that kind of stuff don't harm women.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
One rumor upset Frank the most. It alleged that Richard
was so upset about Danielle not wanting to be with
him that he flew into a jealous rage and killed Danielle.
Speaker 15 (29:06):
That PIB was the biggest thing when I heard that
that you did out of the jealous rage and stuff
like that.
Speaker 10 (29:11):
And there's no way he was like that. He just
was not that tight.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Frank and Julie were close with Richard. I would expect
them to defend him. That's why I also asked Fido
if the FBI looked into these rumors.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
There are allegations of Richard being a big time bookie
and a big time drug dealer. He was not Pablo Escobar,
not by a long shot. He was not John Gottie
running a lone shark and gambling operation that panned out
to be a bunch of bs. I found nothing that
would indicate it was anything in Richard's backgrounds that would
(29:50):
have led to this, And the same thing with Danielle.
Nothing in her backgrounds would indicate anything that would lead
to something like this.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
If Youdo didn't find anything in Danielle or Richard's background.
That again left us with Joe Imbo.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
We did some digging into his family to see if
we could uncover anything, and it would be inappropriate for
me to comment on the content of those conversations.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
This has to be so frustrating for both of the victims'
families and even for Joe, because they've never put cuffs
on Joe, haven't ruled him a suspect, and yet they
haven't cleared him either. So where does that leave us?
Who could have pulled this off and why? Well, when
you start asking people about this case, there's no shortage
(30:39):
of theories, rumors, and opinions about what happened and who
might be responsible.
Speaker 16 (30:45):
I've covered somewhere between three thousand and five thousand homicides
in his city over the course of my career, and
there was a rumor that the car was taken one
place and the bodies were taken somewhere else, that the
car must have been destroyed, that it must have been
crushed at a junkyard.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
That's next time on there and gone South Street. If
you have any information about the disappearance of Danielle Imbo
and Richard Patron. Please call the Citizens Crime Commission tip
Line at two on five five four six eight four
seven seven, or you can reach out to the show
(31:30):
in our team by email at varrengonpod at gmail dot com.
That's there and gonepod at gmail dot com. Thank you
so much for listening. One way for you to show
support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts.
Don't forget to rate and review because five star reviews
go a long way. A big thank you to all
(31:51):
of our listeners. Therein Gone is a production of Glass Podcasts,
a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.
The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass, Ben Fetterman,
and me Andrea Gunning. It's hosted and written by me
Andrea Gunning, with additional reporting and writing by Ben Fetterman.
The series is also written and produced by Todd Gans.
(32:14):
Our associate producer is Kristin Melcurrie. Research by Mason Klinder,
Annah Hamilton and Bella Riki. Our iHeart team is Ali
Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt
del Vecchio. Additional editing support by Nico Aruka there in.
Gonn's theme and original compositions were composed by Oliver Bains
(32:34):
and Darry mcaulay of Neusier Music Library, provided by My
Music Special thanks to both the Patrone and tow Ray families.
For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple
Podcasts for wherever you get your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Andrea Gunning
Ben Fetterman
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!