August 19, 2024 • 37 mins
Why did Richard’s father have to take a polygraph test? He explains what happened when the tables turned and who he blames for misinformation about his son. Danielle’s mother also breaks her silence and shares details about Danielle and Richard’s night out that have never been made public.
Reach out to the There and Gone Team by email at thereandgonepod@gmail.com.
If you have any tips on the disappearance of Richard Petrone and Danielle Imbo, please contact the Citizens Crime Commission at 215-546-TIPS (8477).
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Alive and fourth in the South, the last place where
the couple was seen.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Alive, and Jeanette Perciona was a friend of Danielle's. The
weekend Danielle vanished, Jeanette was at home with the TV on.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
They vanished after living a bar in the four hundred
block of South Street.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I was having a lazy Sunday, falling in and out
of sleep on the couch with ABC playing, and Danielle's
picture popped up and I just couldn't believe my eyes.
I dialed Danielle's cell phone and it went straight to voicemail,
(00:38):
so I immediately dialed the house phone and Felice answered.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Felice is Danielle's mother.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I said, Felice, it's Jeannette, and she said, oh, Jeannette,
she's coming home.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
And I said, what do you mean? Where was she?
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Like?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I thought they had found her. And her reply to
me was, I don't know where she is, Janette, but
I know she's coming home. And if you would have
heard the desperation in her voice at the time, it's
(01:21):
like her heart fell to the floor.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Then there just were no words. I'm Andrea Gunning and
this is there and gone. South Street episode eight, but
not knowing.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Hold know.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Is I say you in my dream, reached out in
the dog for you p last to me, I'll never
give up.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
No matter Holla, I open my.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Define.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Just to note that views and opinions expressed in this
podcast are solely those of the individuals participating. This podcast
also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone.
Discretion as advised. A few weeks after Danielle Imbo and
(02:34):
Richard Patrone vanished off South Street in Philly, FBI agent
Vitto Rosselli first started working the case. Originally tasked with
pulling phone records, Vido said his role has greatly expanded
since then.
Speaker 6 (02:47):
Became the face of this investigation, whether it wanted to
or not.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
As the face of the investigation, Vito became the point
person for the victims' families. Over time, a deep bond
was formed.
Speaker 6 (03:00):
In this particular case. There were two good families on
both sides. This was the one that really pulled out
the heart strinks. And I obsessed on this case because
there were families depending on me to come up with
the answer weekends, late nights, early mornings. Number of times
(03:21):
I thought I had the golden ticket because everything was
lining up. I remember being so excited and just for
an entire month saying this is it, man, We're getting there.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
This case became Vito's purpose, and the families believed he
would be the one to find answers. With him on
the case, hope became the current of their everyday lives.
Over the two decades, law enforcement would gain traction with
tips and calls, and when he had enough, Vito and
the families would meet. The hope that they would finally
(03:51):
get justice would swell, but Vito's leads would take him
to dead ends. The disappointment was like a riptide for
the families, pulling them under back into the deep dark
expanse of the not knowing, a place of suffocating grief
and deafening silence, drowning in their own imaginations. For almost
two decades, Vito and the families lived this cycle, a
(04:14):
cycle that continues to this day.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
It came so close, so many times on the different directions,
only to you bag my head on the wall.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Vido had gotten lots of clues over the years, but
never enough to name a suspect or make an arrest.
Speaker 6 (04:30):
And that stays with you. It definitely haunts me to
this day. Great still bothers me.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
When we started working on this podcast, there were a
few people I didn't think we'd be able to interview.
One of them was Richard Petrone's father, Richard Senior. For
the sake of simplicity, we'll call him Big Rich. I
didn't think we'd talk with Big Rich because over the
past few years he struggled with multiple health issues. Here's
his wife, March.
Speaker 7 (05:00):
He had many stroke they're TIA's on after the other,
after the other.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Marge said. Those many strokes have affected Big Rich's mobility
and speech. But the real decline, Marge told me, happened
after their son, Richard vanished with Daniel Embo in two
thousand and five.
Speaker 7 (05:19):
It's like the shell of a person. He couldn't work,
He couldn't He was drinking terrible right, like seven cars.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
The guy who used to yell out every answer on
Jeopardy became a shadow of himself.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
I never did out of that chair. You never did
that that share. Now.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
In the spring of twenty twenty three, Ben and I
were fortunate enough to meet with Big Rich at his
home in Cherry Hill, New Jersey. That afternoon. He was
feeling well enough to have visitors, and even on what
Marge described as a good day, I imagine big Rich
was tired, but he put on our brave face as
he sat with us at his dining room table.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
I'm getting old. My back, my legs are going A
lot of it was due to me not being willing
to embrace diabetes.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That, along with his years working on his feet at
the bakery, have taken a toll on his body. And
then there's the pain that started the night his son
vanished off South Street.
Speaker 8 (06:21):
Richard's disappearance that put a period in my life before
it was a great life.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
After that not the same.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Big Rich has had to shoulder on. He lost his namesake,
his partner, his first born. You can feel the void
it has left. Even on the wedding day of Richard's daughter, Angela,
Big Rich represented his son by walking his granddaughter down
the aisle.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
His daughter has turned out to be an amazing be
hell of a credit to Richard if he could see
what he left behind.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
That afternoon, big Rich shared so much about his son,
like how they used to travel to the Meadowlands to
see Bruce Springsteen.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Springsteen was his Touchdowe from the time he was five
years old till he disappeared.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
And in two thousand and five the music stopped.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
I mean I stopped listening to music for the longs time.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Instead, Big Rich turned to writing. He began journaling to
help him deal with his new reality. He shared some
of those writings with me. A lot of it is
big Rich unpacking the night of February nineteenth and the aftermath.
But at other points he writes beautiful prose, quoting lyrics
of Bruce Springsteen and other songwriters. One verse he quotes
jumped off the page as he spoke about the dreams
(07:56):
his son would never live to see. It says, I
have these moments I'll steady and strong. I'm feeling so
holy and humble. The next thing I know, I'm all
worried and weak, and I feel myself starting to crumble.
Big Rich even penned a letter about Richard to Bruce Springsteen.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I almost expected I get some response.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Nothing much like his letter. His questions about what happened
to his son remained unanswered. He held out hope, but
that hope evaporated into fear and then pain, unending pain,
and that's when he turned to the bottle.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
I'd be out take a delivery and I'd stop in
the bar. I drink two doubles. Next morning, I get up,
pour myself a drink, and I go.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Other than the occasional glass of wine. Big Rich said
he gave up drinking years ago, even though the pain
all that booze used to numb is still there. I
thought back to our first visit to the Patrichy Phones
for Sunday dinner, and how no one wanted to sit
in Richard or big Rich's chair, and how both seats
have been called for years now.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Easter, Thanksgiving, holidays. You know, make they same? I mean you,
I act like they do.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Big Rich even opened up about Danielle, who he knew
from the time she was fifteen.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
I loved her. She was the closest thing my son
would ever get to, the perfect match, the girl you'd
want in your house, take care of the kids, and
be willing to go out. And she liked the things
you'd like. Just a good girl.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Big Rich admitted the thought of his son marrying Danielle
gave him pause.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
And I said to him, I hope you don't want
to get married, because she's already been married. Twice. Maybe
you could just live with her a while. He said,
Look that I can't matter with her yet. He said,
I'm not happy with myself sometimes, and I say, yeah,
(10:12):
you're right, but you're getting here. You're getting here.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
He was getting there, after all, Richard was only thirty five.
As the conversation continued, I asked Big Rich more about
the investigation. Big rich took a deep breath and readjusted
himself in his chair. Then he stared off into the distance,
almost as though he was searching for something.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Fido told me we thought it was the murder.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
For higher Vido as an FBI agent, Vido Rosselli.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
The evidence speaks for itself. I think the car got
chopped or crushed, and you're never going to find it.
We don't know if they were followed, or if the
guy was waiting outside or a partner. Had to be
(11:08):
at least two guys, and we don't know if they
jumped him, they came up behind him. I know Richard
then he got a temper. Maybe things got down in hand. Well,
maybe they clock Richard tell her to get in the car,
but they drive Richard's truck away and then whatever happened happened.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Big Rich's body may have slowed down, but the endless
possibilities about what happened to his son continue to race
through his mind.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
But as Vito said, it could have just been a
thing that went wrong. He told me once this the
kind of case stays with you. Ain't say I'll never
give up. I said, that's okay, but he is going
to be twenty years How much more do I have
(12:05):
to wait?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Big Rich said. At some point during the investigation, the
authorities started to eye him, and that's when things got
really uncomfortable. Richard Patrone, Senor, who for the sake of simplicity,
(12:31):
were calling Big Rich, talked about the roller coaster of
emotions his family has been on since the day his
son disappeared, especially every time the police asked to speak
with him. That's when he get his hopes up. Did
they find his son? Do they know what happened? Was
someone in custody?
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I got a phone call one day, was a young
detective on the case.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
The detective wanted to talk with Big Rich and person
and asked if you could stop by the station.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
I said, yeah, sure, I'll be there. Now. I'm figuring
if a guy won't talk to me, must have something intelligence.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
When he arrived, big Rich said, their conversation quickly got uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
He said, well, you said you left the bakery one
two o'clock in the year, you know. I said, yeah, Well,
who would close up? Said my son? He said, well,
we have information he had gamble dats. I said, where'd
you get this? Well, you know, we can't say my
(13:36):
friends of Danielle said by I said, my son doesn't gamble.
There was that story. There was another story having to
do with money. They had to hear this shit from
Danielle nobody else, or they're rinking it up.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Big Rich blamed Danielle's family and friend for spreading what
he called lies and rumors. He even wrote a strongly
written letter to Felisa Tobray, Danielle's mother.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
You kept that, I kept it all this time.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yet Marche handed Ben a copy of big Rich's letter,
titled The Shame. I won't read the entire thing, but
I will share a few lines. Our son is gone.
He is not here to defend himself. He is also
a victim here, but you seem to have forgotten that
and continue to victimize the victim.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
I said, listen please don't mention my son's involvement at all,
or else I'm not going to get in a pisson
match with her.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Along with showing away rumors about Richard, big Rich and
Marge also had their struggle with law enforcement. At one
point during the investigation, they made big Rich take a polygraph.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
You know what that did to him?
Speaker 9 (14:58):
One day when they brought him in to take a
lie detector test to say, you know what happened to
your son, they said, we get lied to every day.
Maybe you owed somebody money, and they said no, nothing
in his background would have ever led to that.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Law enforcement has never charged or named big Rich as
a suspect, and he even told us it's all water
under the bridge.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I think you don't trust me now after all these years.
But the thing I'm afraid of, I don't feel as
though I've given it my all.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I don't feel as though I've given it my all.
Marge said, It's a familiar phrase that big Rich has
said since the very beginning.
Speaker 7 (15:45):
He just cried. I cried.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
I cried.
Speaker 7 (15:49):
We had every law enforcement, we had the FBI, we
have the violent Crime Unit in and out of our
house every day. What do you want to do, and
so we just felt like he should have did more.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Big Rich wasn't the only voice we didn't expect to include.
Midway through this podcast, we got a text message telling
us that someone else wanted to speak with us.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
My name is Felisa Tobray and Danielle Otobray, Imbo's mother.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
When Ben and I embarked on this project, Danielle's brother
John kindly asked us not to involve their mother Felice.
Much like Big Rich, she's been dealing with health issues
and he didn't want to add more stress to her life.
In fact, she said, all along, John has tried to
shield her from the investigation.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Beto would always call John. Originally he would call me
and then I would be all upset on the phone,
and John had said to him, look call me and
I'll call her, and that's how it went.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Felise was aware that her son John, his wife Jodi,
and her grandchildren had been interviewed for this podcast.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
And to be perfectly candid with you, I have never
listened to a podcast. I don't even know how to
do that. So whatever is being said prior to this,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
But recently, she said, her grandson started asking a lot
of questions about Danielle, and these questions were in response
to things they heard on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
There's things that are going on that I have no clue,
and I like it like that. I know it sounds terrible,
but let me for a little while be in my
little cocoon. It helps me. I have so much going
on right now that I don't even want to get into,
but it's nice to be in a cocoon and be
protected for a little while.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
That day, Felice decided to let her guard down and
emerge from her cocoon. She said she was ready to
share her truth.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
The only thing I could say is I only know
what I know from my side of the table.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Up until now, we've always heard how the meet up
between Danielle and Richard were spontaneous in spur of the moment,
but Felly said that's not entirely true.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Those arrangements to meet were made a few days before Saturday,
and nobody knew. No one knew, I knew.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Fully said that Danielle and Richard hadn't talked since sometime
right after the New Year, when Danielle decided she wanted
to be alone.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Might have been a week after or maybe ten days after.
She just didn't want to be with either of them,
not her husband because they were just separated, and not Richard.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
A few weeks past, and then right after Valentine's Day,
Richard called Danielle.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I was there when he called. It was either a
Wednesday or a Thursday night. I mean, that was the
first conversation they had had in quite a while, so
that's why she was surprised when he was on the phone.
She said.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Richard asked Danielle out for that Saturday night.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
He wanted to take her to dinner, and she was like,
I'm already I have planned and she wouldn't break the
plans with us to do that.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
She is referring to is the girl's night at Chicky
and Pete's.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
He said, well, why can't we meet up.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Afterwards, fully said. After Danielle kept hesitating, Richard asked her
to put her mother on the phone.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Of course, get on the phone, and he said, I
don't understand. You know, I love her, And that's when
I said, you just have to back off a little
bit and give her some space.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So you have Richard, who clearly tried to give Danielle
some space, but then decided, you know what, I'm just
going to shoot my shot.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I give him credit that he did give her that
space and then cold. I guess he figured, you know,
if I don't ask, if I don't try.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I'll never know, and to his credit, it worked.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
She agreed to meet him after dinner to have a
drink and that was it. I mean, these are things
that we never put out there for the public to know.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Felly said. They informed law enforcement of the full story.
That detail is something she also believes no one knew
ahead of time other than her, Danielle and Richard.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
She didn't really want anybody to know that she was
going to have this drink with him. None of her friends,
her brother and Jodie. No one knew. I knew because
I was there when the arrangement was made. Normally, when
we went somewhere, she always drove. She would pick me
up and drive and we would go. This night, I
(20:24):
drove to her because I was going to come home
by myself and Christine was going to take her to
meet her brother.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Police told us that she always liked Richard.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
If you're good to my daughter, how do you not
like him?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
She said she was the one who encouraged Danielle to
go out with Richard in the first place.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I said to her, Danielle, you know him from when
you're a teenager. Go go to dinner, go to a movie,
get out, just get out. And so she did, and
their first date was Mother's Day.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
This detail tell was something we have struggled with because
no one could remember when Danielle and Richard first started dating.
According to Felice, it was on Mother's Day, two thousand
and four.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
He comes to pick her up on Mother's Day with
flowers for her and a plant for me. That's how
they started to see each other.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
And it was good, and Felice thought Richard was good
to her daughter.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I remember literally one time she hadn't eaten old day.
When he closed the bakery, he stopped, grabbed a sandwich
for her, pack of smokes chocolate bar because she loved
the chocolate, drove to her condo and brought her something
to eat, and then went home. So he was good
(21:47):
to her.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
But then the good got complicated.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And of course she then tells her the strange husband
that she was going out on dates with Richard, and
in the meantime, Joe couldn't understand the fact that she
could even date somebody else, but like in his mind,
it was all right for him to do something, but
certainly not all right for her to do something. Did
(22:15):
she have her issues with her husband during that separation? Absolutely? Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Danielle's mother, Felsa Tobray, talked to me and Ben for
the better part of three hours. We asked Felice about
Danielle's estranged husband, Joe Imbo, and how his affair changed
the trajectory of their lives.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Was he my favorite person? Now he hurt her? She
was devastated by it. She cried and hardbreaking, disappointed, like
what was wrong with me? And I did tell her
more than once, there's not a marriage out there, it
(23:12):
doesn't have problems at some point. Yours happened to happen
early on in a marriage. But I wanted her to
know that you can get through it, and some people
make it work and other people they don't.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
As Joe tried to win Danielle back, Felice said, Danielle's
biggest struggle was whether she could trust him again.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
You know, it's hard to build trust back when things happen,
and she was torn with that, but at one point
she was like, the only man in my life is
my son. She had said that many, many, many.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Times, Felice said Danielle turned to her as a shoulder
to cry on, and although Felice would often refrain from
telling Danielle what to do, she did offer a few
pieces of advice.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I did tell her, don't throw all of your troubles
out there for just anyone, because then you don't do
what's truly in your heart. If you want to go
back with that person, if you want to make it work,
you don't want to be judged.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Her point was that the more people you tell about
what's going on, the harder it will be for them
to accept whatever you choose to do. But one person
Palice definitely wanted Danielle to talk to was an attorney.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I said to her, you're separated, and I think the
right thing to do is you need to see what
your rights are and get an attorney. And so that
was me. That wasn't even higher. That was me.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Danielle's lawyer is now retired, and despite our attempts to
get in touch with her, we've never heard back. According
to police, it was the lawyer who directed Danielle to
change her locks.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
It wasn't Danielle's idea. It was the attorney who had
said to her, you know, you need to change your locks.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
The attorney was also the one who Danielle to take
notes of every interaction she had with Joe.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
She documented everything, if they had an argument, if he
was confrontational, if he picked up little Joe late, if
he took him home late. Because they did backer back
and forth, especially when he found out that she was
going to start to date.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
That bickering, fully said, increased once Richard entered the picture.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
One of his things was I don't want another man
to raise my son. And I remember saying to Joe,
do you forget at one point you were going to
raise another man's son.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Felise explained that Joe originally left Danielle for a woman
who had a son of her own.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I think he then realized, like I made the biggest
mistake in my life.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Well, Joe tried to win Danielle back. Falise remembers a
phone call between Danielle and Joe that she and Richard overheard.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Rich comes to pick her up and she's on the
phone and I could hear her on the phone with
her husband, and he proceeds to say to her, I
don't understand why it won't be back. I'm a good
looking guy.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Well, what Felisa's sharing gives us some insight into the
state of the relationship. At this time, I was curious
how Danielle was handling all of this and whether intentional
or not. Felice gave me a little more insight into
both Danielle and Richard's personalities.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
And she proceeds to say to her husband, I would
rather be with a hobbit than be with you, And
Richard turns around and mouths to me, I must be
the hobbit. This was her personality like, even when things
are at its very worst.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
And while she tried to stay out of it, fully said,
there was one time when she felt the need to intervene.
It happened after Joe directly reached out to Richard.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Joe had called him at the bakery quite a few times,
and it was like over and over and over, which
he had done to Danielle on many occasions, like cold
and then she would hang up and he would call on,
you know, and that kind of thing. And I remember
even calling him one time and saying, you've got to
stop torturing her, like why do you keep she doesn't
want to talk to you right now. And I remember
(27:22):
Richard calling Danielle and saying that Joe had called and
cold and cold and cold, and I reached out to
pat Joe's mother saying, please just call him and tell
him to stop.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I should mention that we spoke to Joe's mother at length,
but she did not want to come on the record.
Fullice didn't go into too much detail about Joe's repeated
phone calls. I feel like the fact that she called
Joe's mother to get her to intervene was very telling.
But Felise made it clear no one in her family
ever lived in fear of Joe.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Now, we were never afraid of Joe, Danielle or brought nobody.
Joe is the kind of guy where he wants you
to know what his point of view is. If he
thinks you're wrong and he thinks he's right, that's the
way it is.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
The Patrons have a tradition of Sunday dinner, and so
too did the atoebrace fully said she hosted her family
for Sunday dinner at her house, but that tradition ended
Sunday after Danielle vanished at.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
First Sunday, We've just set at the takebook good Buddy eight.
It's just yeah, it's tough. It was tough, but we
still stayed together. We just didn't do it at the
same table. You know, there's not a day that goes
(28:52):
by that I don't truly miss her, my.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Friend at her son, John took over hosting Sunday dinner. Meanwhile,
Joe moved into Danielle's condo to take care of his son,
and Felice said, Joe also took over Danielle's bills, like
her car and cell phone.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Like I don't know what we were thinking, like somehow,
some way, this girl's going to walk through this door
and everything's going to be good. In fact, the band
that she sang with had a little fundraiser for her
and raised money. And this is where our crazy minds were.
When she comes back, this money will get her back
on her feet again. This is how you don't want
(29:36):
to accept what you know to be true. Does that
make sense to you?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
It made total sense, and that money they raised it
eventually became a college fund for Danielle's son, Little Joe, I.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Find it hard to believe that they never got a
handle on anything, But there was never anything for them
to get a handle on. There was never a video,
they weren't on a camera, There wasn't a lipstick, there
wasn't a tissue. Even the truck disappeared.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Fully said that as months passed, Joe decided it was
time to cancel Danielle's cell phone. He also sold her
car and condo and planned to move to North Carolina
with his son.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Joe had called and said, if you want to come
over and you have you know, come and get whatever
you want. So we go over. We walk into the
bedroom and it was like she's still lived there. All
of her clothes were in the closet, All of her
shoes were still on the closet floor, stacked, you know,
(30:47):
the way you would store your shoes. All of her clothes,
JOm is everything we're still on the drawers. And he
had two suitcases and he was living out of his
suitcases all that time, never moved, never even made room
(31:08):
for his clothes in her closet. To me, it was
like unreal, unreal. And another reason, why is this a
man who murdered his wife? I know that they heavily
looked into Joe. I mean, it just didn't make any sense.
(31:32):
I do know that Joe went had a lie detector test.
My son took him. Nothing ever came of it. Joe
just wanted us to know that he had nothing to
do with it, and that was his main concern. He
didn't care what anybody thought. He cared what I thought
and what John thought. And I said, I absolutely don't
(31:56):
believe you did this now.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
As you know that put Danielle's family bea tobrays at
odds with Richard's family, the Patrons.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I was very supportive of Marge and mister Petrin. We
both are missing our children now. We believe that there's
some failed play and we wanted to be united in
finding out what happened to our children. But they said
immediately that it was Joe, and I was like, no,
(32:26):
I don't think so, and Marge was mad. They never
considered any other possibility. And then it was like, why
are you protecting him? Why would I protect him if
I believed that he himself murdered or had someone do this,
Why would I protect him? That made no sense to me,
(32:49):
none at all. You know, I'm not going to agree
with things that you're saying that I don't agree with.
So I made a decision to take a step back
from them because we're going through enough. I don't need
to have you screaming at me.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I know he asked this already, But up until the
point that she went missing, did you ever feel like
she was in danger or felt threatened by Joe? Yeah,
and that's why Feley said she never thought of fighting
for custody of little Joe.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Little Joe has a father. Why would I want to
take custody of him? That never ever ever came into
play or anything never even occurred to me.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Since the first day Danielle and Richard vanished, Joe Imbo
has been caught in the middle. The Patrons firmly believed
Joe had something to do with it. Theotobreys believe they
don't think he's capable of something like this. That difference
of opinion has caused a rift between both families that
journalist Steve Volk first reported on ten years ago.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
They could obviously find support through each other, and they
just don't. They cut each other off in spite of
a long long friendship over this sense of personal slight.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Steve said he's surprised that the two families have remained
at odds because of the similarities they both share.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
I was like, wow, like you're looking into a mirror here.
They could not have been more similar in terms of
the emotional depth that they were operating in. They were
operating in this lower circle of hell. And it struck
me as a human being that like, maybe by asking
(34:37):
some of these questions, I mean, yes, I generate material
for the story, but maybe I make them think about
the support they could have from one another.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Steve said, not many people can understand the pain the
a Toobra and Patron families have endured, except the Atobrays
and Patrons.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
And so when I originally wrote it, I thought, Gee,
maybe they'll read it and they'll see that they're looking
into this mirror and they'll reconcile.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
But no, the starting and ending point was Joe Imbo.
As we've said throughout this podcast, Joe has never been
cleared by law enforcement. He's also never been charged, and
as we've mentioned previously, even a grand jury was convened,
but no action was taken against Joe.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
So if this guy had nothing to do with it,
and ended up in a situation where the circumstances like
kind of surround him and point their finger at him, right,
because that's what the circumstances do. God that would be
its own circle of hell.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
And for Joe, it was so where is Joe today?
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Oh, he had like a heart attack.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
That's next time on There and Gone. If you have
any information about the disappearance of Danielle Imbo and Richard Petrone,
please call the Citizens Crime Commission hipline at two one
five five four six eight four seven seven, or contact
the Thearren Gone team at Thearngonpod at gmail dot com.
(36:09):
That's Therein Gone pod at gmail dot com. We're grateful
for your support. One way to show support is by
subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget
to rate and review Therein Gone. Five star reviews go
a long way. A big thank you to all of
our listeners. Thereon Gon is a production of Glass Podcasts,
a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.
(36:34):
The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Benfetnerman.
It's hosted and written by me Andrea Gunning, with additional
reporting and writing by Ben Fetterman. The series is also
written and produced by Todd Gans. Our associate producer is
Kristin Melcurie. Research by Mason Klinder, Anna Hamilton, and Bella Ricky.
Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Audio
(36:56):
editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, additional editings support from
Nico Aruka and Tanner Robbins. There Gunn's theme and original
compositions were composed by Oliver Bains and Darry mcaulay of
Noisert Music Library provided by Mybe Music and a special
thanks to both the Patron and a Tobray families. Your
(37:17):
strength and willingness to share your stories have been invaluable
through the making of this podcast. Thank you for allowing
us to honor the memories of your loved ones and
to help keep your stories alive. For more podcasts from iHeart,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Alive and fourth in the South, the last place where
the couple was seen.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Alive, and Jeanette Perciona was a friend of Danielle's. The
weekend Danielle vanished, Jeanette was at home with the TV on.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
They vanished after living a bar in the four hundred
block of South Street.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I was having a lazy Sunday, falling in and out
of sleep on the couch with ABC playing, and Danielle's
picture popped up and I just couldn't believe my eyes.
I dialed Danielle's cell phone and it went straight to voicemail,
(00:38):
so I immediately dialed the house phone and Felice answered.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Felice is Danielle's mother.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I said, Felice, it's Jeannette, and she said, oh, Jeannette,
she's coming home.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
And I said, what do you mean? Where was she?
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Like?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I thought they had found her. And her reply to
me was, I don't know where she is, Janette, but
I know she's coming home. And if you would have
heard the desperation in her voice at the time, it's
(01:21):
like her heart fell to the floor.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Then there just were no words. I'm Andrea Gunning and
this is there and gone. South Street episode eight, but
not knowing.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Hold know.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Is I say you in my dream, reached out in
the dog for you p last to me, I'll never
give up.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
No matter Holla, I open my.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Define.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Just to note that views and opinions expressed in this
podcast are solely those of the individuals participating. This podcast
also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone.
Discretion as advised. A few weeks after Danielle Imbo and
(02:34):
Richard Patrone vanished off South Street in Philly, FBI agent
Vitto Rosselli first started working the case. Originally tasked with
pulling phone records, Vido said his role has greatly expanded
since then.
Speaker 6 (02:47):
Became the face of this investigation, whether it wanted to
or not.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
As the face of the investigation, Vito became the point
person for the victims' families. Over time, a deep bond
was formed.
Speaker 6 (03:00):
In this particular case. There were two good families on
both sides. This was the one that really pulled out
the heart strinks. And I obsessed on this case because
there were families depending on me to come up with
the answer weekends, late nights, early mornings. Number of times
(03:21):
I thought I had the golden ticket because everything was
lining up. I remember being so excited and just for
an entire month saying this is it, man, We're getting there.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
This case became Vito's purpose, and the families believed he
would be the one to find answers. With him on
the case, hope became the current of their everyday lives.
Over the two decades, law enforcement would gain traction with
tips and calls, and when he had enough, Vito and
the families would meet. The hope that they would finally
(03:51):
get justice would swell, but Vito's leads would take him
to dead ends. The disappointment was like a riptide for
the families, pulling them under back into the deep dark
expanse of the not knowing, a place of suffocating grief
and deafening silence, drowning in their own imaginations. For almost
two decades, Vito and the families lived this cycle, a
(04:14):
cycle that continues to this day.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
It came so close, so many times on the different directions,
only to you bag my head on the wall.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Vido had gotten lots of clues over the years, but
never enough to name a suspect or make an arrest.
Speaker 6 (04:30):
And that stays with you. It definitely haunts me to
this day. Great still bothers me.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
When we started working on this podcast, there were a
few people I didn't think we'd be able to interview.
One of them was Richard Petrone's father, Richard Senior. For
the sake of simplicity, we'll call him Big Rich. I
didn't think we'd talk with Big Rich because over the
past few years he struggled with multiple health issues. Here's
his wife, March.
Speaker 7 (05:00):
He had many stroke they're TIA's on after the other,
after the other.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Marge said. Those many strokes have affected Big Rich's mobility
and speech. But the real decline, Marge told me, happened
after their son, Richard vanished with Daniel Embo in two
thousand and five.
Speaker 7 (05:19):
It's like the shell of a person. He couldn't work,
He couldn't He was drinking terrible right, like seven cars.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
The guy who used to yell out every answer on
Jeopardy became a shadow of himself.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
I never did out of that chair. You never did
that that share. Now.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
In the spring of twenty twenty three, Ben and I
were fortunate enough to meet with Big Rich at his
home in Cherry Hill, New Jersey. That afternoon. He was
feeling well enough to have visitors, and even on what
Marge described as a good day, I imagine big Rich
was tired, but he put on our brave face as
he sat with us at his dining room table.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
I'm getting old. My back, my legs are going A
lot of it was due to me not being willing
to embrace diabetes.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That, along with his years working on his feet at
the bakery, have taken a toll on his body. And
then there's the pain that started the night his son
vanished off South Street.
Speaker 8 (06:21):
Richard's disappearance that put a period in my life before
it was a great life.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
After that not the same.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Big Rich has had to shoulder on. He lost his namesake,
his partner, his first born. You can feel the void
it has left. Even on the wedding day of Richard's daughter, Angela,
Big Rich represented his son by walking his granddaughter down
the aisle.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
His daughter has turned out to be an amazing be
hell of a credit to Richard if he could see
what he left behind.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
That afternoon, big Rich shared so much about his son,
like how they used to travel to the Meadowlands to
see Bruce Springsteen.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Springsteen was his Touchdowe from the time he was five
years old till he disappeared.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
And in two thousand and five the music stopped.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
I mean I stopped listening to music for the longs time.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Instead, Big Rich turned to writing. He began journaling to
help him deal with his new reality. He shared some
of those writings with me. A lot of it is
big Rich unpacking the night of February nineteenth and the aftermath.
But at other points he writes beautiful prose, quoting lyrics
of Bruce Springsteen and other songwriters. One verse he quotes
jumped off the page as he spoke about the dreams
(07:56):
his son would never live to see. It says, I
have these moments I'll steady and strong. I'm feeling so
holy and humble. The next thing I know, I'm all
worried and weak, and I feel myself starting to crumble.
Big Rich even penned a letter about Richard to Bruce Springsteen.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I almost expected I get some response.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Nothing much like his letter. His questions about what happened
to his son remained unanswered. He held out hope, but
that hope evaporated into fear and then pain, unending pain,
and that's when he turned to the bottle.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
I'd be out take a delivery and I'd stop in
the bar. I drink two doubles. Next morning, I get up,
pour myself a drink, and I go.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Other than the occasional glass of wine. Big Rich said
he gave up drinking years ago, even though the pain
all that booze used to numb is still there. I
thought back to our first visit to the Patrichy Phones
for Sunday dinner, and how no one wanted to sit
in Richard or big Rich's chair, and how both seats
have been called for years now.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Easter, Thanksgiving, holidays. You know, make they same? I mean you,
I act like they do.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Big Rich even opened up about Danielle, who he knew
from the time she was fifteen.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
I loved her. She was the closest thing my son
would ever get to, the perfect match, the girl you'd
want in your house, take care of the kids, and
be willing to go out. And she liked the things
you'd like. Just a good girl.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Big Rich admitted the thought of his son marrying Danielle
gave him pause.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
And I said to him, I hope you don't want
to get married, because she's already been married. Twice. Maybe
you could just live with her a while. He said,
Look that I can't matter with her yet. He said,
I'm not happy with myself sometimes, and I say, yeah,
(10:12):
you're right, but you're getting here. You're getting here.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
He was getting there, after all, Richard was only thirty five.
As the conversation continued, I asked Big Rich more about
the investigation. Big rich took a deep breath and readjusted
himself in his chair. Then he stared off into the distance,
almost as though he was searching for something.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Fido told me we thought it was the murder.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
For higher Vido as an FBI agent, Vido Rosselli.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
The evidence speaks for itself. I think the car got
chopped or crushed, and you're never going to find it.
We don't know if they were followed, or if the
guy was waiting outside or a partner. Had to be
(11:08):
at least two guys, and we don't know if they
jumped him, they came up behind him. I know Richard
then he got a temper. Maybe things got down in hand. Well,
maybe they clock Richard tell her to get in the car,
but they drive Richard's truck away and then whatever happened happened.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Big Rich's body may have slowed down, but the endless
possibilities about what happened to his son continue to race
through his mind.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
But as Vito said, it could have just been a
thing that went wrong. He told me once this the
kind of case stays with you. Ain't say I'll never
give up. I said, that's okay, but he is going
to be twenty years How much more do I have
(12:05):
to wait?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Big Rich said. At some point during the investigation, the
authorities started to eye him, and that's when things got
really uncomfortable. Richard Patrone, Senor, who for the sake of simplicity,
(12:31):
were calling Big Rich, talked about the roller coaster of
emotions his family has been on since the day his
son disappeared, especially every time the police asked to speak
with him. That's when he get his hopes up. Did
they find his son? Do they know what happened? Was
someone in custody?
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I got a phone call one day, was a young
detective on the case.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
The detective wanted to talk with Big Rich and person
and asked if you could stop by the station.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
I said, yeah, sure, I'll be there. Now. I'm figuring
if a guy won't talk to me, must have something intelligence.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
When he arrived, big Rich said, their conversation quickly got uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
He said, well, you said you left the bakery one
two o'clock in the year, you know. I said, yeah, Well,
who would close up? Said my son? He said, well,
we have information he had gamble dats. I said, where'd
you get this? Well, you know, we can't say my
(13:36):
friends of Danielle said by I said, my son doesn't gamble.
There was that story. There was another story having to
do with money. They had to hear this shit from
Danielle nobody else, or they're rinking it up.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Big Rich blamed Danielle's family and friend for spreading what
he called lies and rumors. He even wrote a strongly
written letter to Felisa Tobray, Danielle's mother.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
You kept that, I kept it all this time.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yet Marche handed Ben a copy of big Rich's letter,
titled The Shame. I won't read the entire thing, but
I will share a few lines. Our son is gone.
He is not here to defend himself. He is also
a victim here, but you seem to have forgotten that
and continue to victimize the victim.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
I said, listen please don't mention my son's involvement at all,
or else I'm not going to get in a pisson
match with her.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Along with showing away rumors about Richard, big Rich and
Marge also had their struggle with law enforcement. At one
point during the investigation, they made big Rich take a polygraph.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
You know what that did to him?
Speaker 9 (14:58):
One day when they brought him in to take a
lie detector test to say, you know what happened to
your son, they said, we get lied to every day.
Maybe you owed somebody money, and they said no, nothing
in his background would have ever led to that.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Law enforcement has never charged or named big Rich as
a suspect, and he even told us it's all water
under the bridge.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I think you don't trust me now after all these years.
But the thing I'm afraid of, I don't feel as
though I've given it my all.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I don't feel as though I've given it my all.
Marge said, It's a familiar phrase that big Rich has
said since the very beginning.
Speaker 7 (15:45):
He just cried. I cried.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
I cried.
Speaker 7 (15:49):
We had every law enforcement, we had the FBI, we
have the violent Crime Unit in and out of our
house every day. What do you want to do, and
so we just felt like he should have did more.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Big Rich wasn't the only voice we didn't expect to include.
Midway through this podcast, we got a text message telling
us that someone else wanted to speak with us.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
My name is Felisa Tobray and Danielle Otobray, Imbo's mother.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
When Ben and I embarked on this project, Danielle's brother
John kindly asked us not to involve their mother Felice.
Much like Big Rich, she's been dealing with health issues
and he didn't want to add more stress to her life.
In fact, she said, all along, John has tried to
shield her from the investigation.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Beto would always call John. Originally he would call me
and then I would be all upset on the phone,
and John had said to him, look call me and
I'll call her, and that's how it went.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Felise was aware that her son John, his wife Jodi,
and her grandchildren had been interviewed for this podcast.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
And to be perfectly candid with you, I have never
listened to a podcast. I don't even know how to
do that. So whatever is being said prior to this,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
But recently, she said, her grandson started asking a lot
of questions about Danielle, and these questions were in response
to things they heard on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
There's things that are going on that I have no clue,
and I like it like that. I know it sounds terrible,
but let me for a little while be in my
little cocoon. It helps me. I have so much going
on right now that I don't even want to get into,
but it's nice to be in a cocoon and be
protected for a little while.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
That day, Felice decided to let her guard down and
emerge from her cocoon. She said she was ready to
share her truth.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
The only thing I could say is I only know
what I know from my side of the table.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Up until now, we've always heard how the meet up
between Danielle and Richard were spontaneous in spur of the moment,
but Felly said that's not entirely true.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Those arrangements to meet were made a few days before Saturday,
and nobody knew. No one knew, I knew.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Fully said that Danielle and Richard hadn't talked since sometime
right after the New Year, when Danielle decided she wanted
to be alone.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Might have been a week after or maybe ten days after.
She just didn't want to be with either of them,
not her husband because they were just separated, and not Richard.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
A few weeks past, and then right after Valentine's Day,
Richard called Danielle.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I was there when he called. It was either a
Wednesday or a Thursday night. I mean, that was the
first conversation they had had in quite a while, so
that's why she was surprised when he was on the phone.
She said.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Richard asked Danielle out for that Saturday night.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
He wanted to take her to dinner, and she was like,
I'm already I have planned and she wouldn't break the
plans with us to do that.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
She is referring to is the girl's night at Chicky
and Pete's.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
He said, well, why can't we meet up.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Afterwards, fully said. After Danielle kept hesitating, Richard asked her
to put her mother on the phone.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Of course, get on the phone, and he said, I
don't understand. You know, I love her, And that's when
I said, you just have to back off a little
bit and give her some space.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So you have Richard, who clearly tried to give Danielle
some space, but then decided, you know what, I'm just
going to shoot my shot.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I give him credit that he did give her that
space and then cold. I guess he figured, you know,
if I don't ask, if I don't try.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I'll never know, and to his credit, it worked.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
She agreed to meet him after dinner to have a
drink and that was it. I mean, these are things
that we never put out there for the public to know.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Felly said. They informed law enforcement of the full story.
That detail is something she also believes no one knew
ahead of time other than her, Danielle and Richard.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
She didn't really want anybody to know that she was
going to have this drink with him. None of her friends,
her brother and Jodie. No one knew. I knew because
I was there when the arrangement was made. Normally, when
we went somewhere, she always drove. She would pick me
up and drive and we would go. This night, I
(20:24):
drove to her because I was going to come home
by myself and Christine was going to take her to
meet her brother.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Police told us that she always liked Richard.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
If you're good to my daughter, how do you not
like him?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
She said she was the one who encouraged Danielle to
go out with Richard in the first place.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I said to her, Danielle, you know him from when
you're a teenager. Go go to dinner, go to a movie,
get out, just get out. And so she did, and
their first date was Mother's Day.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
This detail tell was something we have struggled with because
no one could remember when Danielle and Richard first started dating.
According to Felice, it was on Mother's Day, two thousand
and four.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
He comes to pick her up on Mother's Day with
flowers for her and a plant for me. That's how
they started to see each other.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
And it was good, and Felice thought Richard was good
to her daughter.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I remember literally one time she hadn't eaten old day.
When he closed the bakery, he stopped, grabbed a sandwich
for her, pack of smokes chocolate bar because she loved
the chocolate, drove to her condo and brought her something
to eat, and then went home. So he was good
(21:47):
to her.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
But then the good got complicated.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And of course she then tells her the strange husband
that she was going out on dates with Richard, and
in the meantime, Joe couldn't understand the fact that she
could even date somebody else, but like in his mind,
it was all right for him to do something, but
certainly not all right for her to do something. Did
(22:15):
she have her issues with her husband during that separation? Absolutely? Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Danielle's mother, Felsa Tobray, talked to me and Ben for
the better part of three hours. We asked Felice about
Danielle's estranged husband, Joe Imbo, and how his affair changed
the trajectory of their lives.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Was he my favorite person? Now he hurt her? She
was devastated by it. She cried and hardbreaking, disappointed, like
what was wrong with me? And I did tell her
more than once, there's not a marriage out there, it
(23:12):
doesn't have problems at some point. Yours happened to happen
early on in a marriage. But I wanted her to
know that you can get through it, and some people
make it work and other people they don't.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
As Joe tried to win Danielle back, Felice said, Danielle's
biggest struggle was whether she could trust him again.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
You know, it's hard to build trust back when things happen,
and she was torn with that, but at one point
she was like, the only man in my life is
my son. She had said that many, many, many.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Times, Felice said Danielle turned to her as a shoulder
to cry on, and although Felice would often refrain from
telling Danielle what to do, she did offer a few
pieces of advice.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I did tell her, don't throw all of your troubles
out there for just anyone, because then you don't do
what's truly in your heart. If you want to go
back with that person, if you want to make it work,
you don't want to be judged.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Her point was that the more people you tell about
what's going on, the harder it will be for them
to accept whatever you choose to do. But one person
Palice definitely wanted Danielle to talk to was an attorney.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I said to her, you're separated, and I think the
right thing to do is you need to see what
your rights are and get an attorney. And so that
was me. That wasn't even higher. That was me.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Danielle's lawyer is now retired, and despite our attempts to
get in touch with her, we've never heard back. According
to police, it was the lawyer who directed Danielle to
change her locks.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
It wasn't Danielle's idea. It was the attorney who had
said to her, you know, you need to change your locks.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
The attorney was also the one who Danielle to take
notes of every interaction she had with Joe.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
She documented everything, if they had an argument, if he
was confrontational, if he picked up little Joe late, if
he took him home late. Because they did backer back
and forth, especially when he found out that she was
going to start to date.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
That bickering, fully said, increased once Richard entered the picture.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
One of his things was I don't want another man
to raise my son. And I remember saying to Joe,
do you forget at one point you were going to
raise another man's son.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Felise explained that Joe originally left Danielle for a woman
who had a son of her own.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I think he then realized, like I made the biggest
mistake in my life.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Well, Joe tried to win Danielle back. Falise remembers a
phone call between Danielle and Joe that she and Richard overheard.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Rich comes to pick her up and she's on the
phone and I could hear her on the phone with
her husband, and he proceeds to say to her, I
don't understand why it won't be back. I'm a good
looking guy.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Well, what Felisa's sharing gives us some insight into the
state of the relationship. At this time, I was curious
how Danielle was handling all of this and whether intentional
or not. Felice gave me a little more insight into
both Danielle and Richard's personalities.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
And she proceeds to say to her husband, I would
rather be with a hobbit than be with you, And
Richard turns around and mouths to me, I must be
the hobbit. This was her personality like, even when things
are at its very worst.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
And while she tried to stay out of it, fully said,
there was one time when she felt the need to intervene.
It happened after Joe directly reached out to Richard.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Joe had called him at the bakery quite a few times,
and it was like over and over and over, which
he had done to Danielle on many occasions, like cold
and then she would hang up and he would call on,
you know, and that kind of thing. And I remember
even calling him one time and saying, you've got to
stop torturing her, like why do you keep she doesn't
want to talk to you right now. And I remember
(27:22):
Richard calling Danielle and saying that Joe had called and
cold and cold and cold, and I reached out to
pat Joe's mother saying, please just call him and tell
him to stop.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I should mention that we spoke to Joe's mother at length,
but she did not want to come on the record.
Fullice didn't go into too much detail about Joe's repeated
phone calls. I feel like the fact that she called
Joe's mother to get her to intervene was very telling.
But Felise made it clear no one in her family
ever lived in fear of Joe.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Now, we were never afraid of Joe, Danielle or brought nobody.
Joe is the kind of guy where he wants you
to know what his point of view is. If he
thinks you're wrong and he thinks he's right, that's the
way it is.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
The Patrons have a tradition of Sunday dinner, and so
too did the atoebrace fully said she hosted her family
for Sunday dinner at her house, but that tradition ended
Sunday after Danielle vanished at.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
First Sunday, We've just set at the takebook good Buddy eight.
It's just yeah, it's tough. It was tough, but we
still stayed together. We just didn't do it at the
same table. You know, there's not a day that goes
(28:52):
by that I don't truly miss her, my.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Friend at her son, John took over hosting Sunday dinner. Meanwhile,
Joe moved into Danielle's condo to take care of his son,
and Felice said, Joe also took over Danielle's bills, like
her car and cell phone.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Like I don't know what we were thinking, like somehow,
some way, this girl's going to walk through this door
and everything's going to be good. In fact, the band
that she sang with had a little fundraiser for her
and raised money. And this is where our crazy minds were.
When she comes back, this money will get her back
on her feet again. This is how you don't want
(29:36):
to accept what you know to be true. Does that
make sense to you?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
It made total sense, and that money they raised it
eventually became a college fund for Danielle's son, Little Joe, I.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Find it hard to believe that they never got a
handle on anything, But there was never anything for them
to get a handle on. There was never a video,
they weren't on a camera, There wasn't a lipstick, there
wasn't a tissue. Even the truck disappeared.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Fully said that as months passed, Joe decided it was
time to cancel Danielle's cell phone. He also sold her
car and condo and planned to move to North Carolina
with his son.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Joe had called and said, if you want to come
over and you have you know, come and get whatever
you want. So we go over. We walk into the
bedroom and it was like she's still lived there. All
of her clothes were in the closet, All of her
shoes were still on the closet floor, stacked, you know,
(30:47):
the way you would store your shoes. All of her clothes,
JOm is everything we're still on the drawers. And he
had two suitcases and he was living out of his
suitcases all that time, never moved, never even made room
(31:08):
for his clothes in her closet. To me, it was
like unreal, unreal. And another reason, why is this a
man who murdered his wife? I know that they heavily
looked into Joe. I mean, it just didn't make any sense.
(31:32):
I do know that Joe went had a lie detector test.
My son took him. Nothing ever came of it. Joe
just wanted us to know that he had nothing to
do with it, and that was his main concern. He
didn't care what anybody thought. He cared what I thought
and what John thought. And I said, I absolutely don't
(31:56):
believe you did this now.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
As you know that put Danielle's family bea tobrays at
odds with Richard's family, the Patrons.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I was very supportive of Marge and mister Petrin. We
both are missing our children now. We believe that there's
some failed play and we wanted to be united in
finding out what happened to our children. But they said
immediately that it was Joe, and I was like, no,
(32:26):
I don't think so, and Marge was mad. They never
considered any other possibility. And then it was like, why
are you protecting him? Why would I protect him if
I believed that he himself murdered or had someone do this,
Why would I protect him? That made no sense to me,
(32:49):
none at all. You know, I'm not going to agree
with things that you're saying that I don't agree with.
So I made a decision to take a step back
from them because we're going through enough. I don't need
to have you screaming at me.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I know he asked this already, But up until the
point that she went missing, did you ever feel like
she was in danger or felt threatened by Joe? Yeah,
and that's why Feley said she never thought of fighting
for custody of little Joe.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Little Joe has a father. Why would I want to
take custody of him? That never ever ever came into
play or anything never even occurred to me.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Since the first day Danielle and Richard vanished, Joe Imbo
has been caught in the middle. The Patrons firmly believed
Joe had something to do with it. Theotobreys believe they
don't think he's capable of something like this. That difference
of opinion has caused a rift between both families that
journalist Steve Volk first reported on ten years ago.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
They could obviously find support through each other, and they
just don't. They cut each other off in spite of
a long long friendship over this sense of personal slight.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Steve said he's surprised that the two families have remained
at odds because of the similarities they both share.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
I was like, wow, like you're looking into a mirror here.
They could not have been more similar in terms of
the emotional depth that they were operating in. They were
operating in this lower circle of hell. And it struck
me as a human being that like, maybe by asking
(34:37):
some of these questions, I mean, yes, I generate material
for the story, but maybe I make them think about
the support they could have from one another.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Steve said, not many people can understand the pain the
a Toobra and Patron families have endured, except the Atobrays
and Patrons.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
And so when I originally wrote it, I thought, Gee,
maybe they'll read it and they'll see that they're looking
into this mirror and they'll reconcile.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
But no, the starting and ending point was Joe Imbo.
As we've said throughout this podcast, Joe has never been
cleared by law enforcement. He's also never been charged, and
as we've mentioned previously, even a grand jury was convened,
but no action was taken against Joe.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
So if this guy had nothing to do with it,
and ended up in a situation where the circumstances like
kind of surround him and point their finger at him, right,
because that's what the circumstances do. God that would be
its own circle of hell.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
And for Joe, it was so where is Joe today?
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Oh, he had like a heart attack.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
That's next time on There and Gone. If you have
any information about the disappearance of Danielle Imbo and Richard Petrone,
please call the Citizens Crime Commission hipline at two one
five five four six eight four seven seven, or contact
the Thearren Gone team at Thearngonpod at gmail dot com.
(36:09):
That's Therein Gone pod at gmail dot com. We're grateful
for your support. One way to show support is by
subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget
to rate and review Therein Gone. Five star reviews go
a long way. A big thank you to all of
our listeners. Thereon Gon is a production of Glass Podcasts,
a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.
(36:34):
The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Benfetnerman.
It's hosted and written by me Andrea Gunning, with additional
reporting and writing by Ben Fetterman. The series is also
written and produced by Todd Gans. Our associate producer is
Kristin Melcurie. Research by Mason Klinder, Anna Hamilton, and Bella Ricky.
Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Audio
(36:56):
editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, additional editings support from
Nico Aruka and Tanner Robbins. There Gunn's theme and original
compositions were composed by Oliver Bains and Darry mcaulay of
Noisert Music Library provided by Mybe Music and a special
thanks to both the Patron and a Tobray families. Your
(37:17):
strength and willingness to share your stories have been invaluable
through the making of this podcast. Thank you for allowing
us to honor the memories of your loved ones and
to help keep your stories alive. For more podcasts from iHeart,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Andrea Gunning
Ben Fetterman
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