Emiru Attacked at TwitchCon; Tea App Ends with a Whimper; Charlie Kirk Grifters; Spotify ICE Ads; OpenAI's Browser Never Forgets – NEWS ROUNDUP! - There Are No Girls on the Internet

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production
of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and there
Are No Girls on the Internet. Welcome to There Are
No Girls on the Internet, where we explore the intersection
of technology, identity, and social media. And this is another
installment of our weekly news bound Up, where we dig

(00:26):
into the stories online that you might have missed so
you don't have to And just to quick heads up,
I'm totally fine, but I've just had a somewhat invasive
medical procedure. I have been given pain killers. I'm feeling great.
But if I found a little loopy, if the show
is a little off the rails, off the tracks, whatever

(00:47):
that expression is, please forgive us. That's what's going on.
So you know this, Mike, listeners know this. My favorite
thing in the world to talk about is scams. So
I want to start with some scams. No, not the
scam of your smart toilet or smart light switch or
smart cooling mattress crapping out on you because AWS was down.

(01:09):
Did you hear about that?

Speaker 2 (01:10):
I did. Yeah, during that day earlier this week when
AWS was down, and like all of the Internet, I
just ground to a Halt. There were people who had
like Internet connected mattresses that when Haywire had just like
folded up on them.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
I don't know if they folded up on anybody, but.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
That's what I heard. They folded up on them.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
They were crushed. I will say. It really made me
realize how much I have taken for granted that Amazon
Web Services runs everything, and maybe that's bad, maybe it's
not cool that this one company runs everything. And then
it also made me realize too how much stuff out
there is tech enabled these days. The mattress was probably

(01:51):
the weirdest thing. Imagine being like, oh, the Wi Fi
is out, so I can't use my smart pillow or whatever.
I just was really I had never heard of anything
like that. It really blew my mind.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, it's a good reminder that, like, maybe your mattress
doesn't need to be connected of the Internet. I have
an air conditioner, just like a window unit air conditioner
that is Wi Fi enabled. I didn't want that. I've
never connected it to Wi Fi. I don't know why
I would want that, but it was like a big
marketing point on the side of the box when I
bought this thing.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Oh, I mean you've heard me complain about this for
hours and hours, the saga of me trying to pick
a sunrise alarm clock. And I almost bought that alarm clock,
the Hatch clock, which I did want deeply and badly,
but it was way too expensive. I thought, Uh, it
might just be worth it. I'm so picky about my
alarm clocks. I want such particular features in an alarm clock.

(02:43):
And then I realized, oh no, you don't just plunk
down two hundred dollars or whatever on the clock. You
also have to pay a monthly subscription service fee to
use all the features. And you were like, you're not
getting an alarm clock subscription. No, A gritch too far.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
No one should have an alarm clock subscription. I'm sorry
to the like subscription model alarm clock industry, but that's
not a thing we need. We have the technology to
deliver it for free. I cannot imagine what premium features
I would gain access to for nine ninety nine a

(03:21):
month or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
They had, like rub Paul doing wake up affirmations. I mean,
I will say I'm not gonna lie and say I
was totally disinterested in some of these features. I was like,
down the rabbit hole on this alarm clock purchase, which
in the end I ended up buying one for like
thirty dollars A networked just fine. No, so obviously that
level of subscription complete scam. But I have a couple

(03:43):
of scam updates for you all.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
That sounds great. What scam you want to start with?

Speaker 1 (03:47):
First tea app and the Tea on her app Saga.
So we've been talking about this since the summertime, y'all
will recall that the t app was designed ostensibly for
women to be able to spill tea on the men
they were interested in potentially dating. It was really marketed
as the safety thing, right, a way for women to
vet men to make sure that abusers were not warning

(04:09):
their way into all of our hearts. But when you
look a little deeper, it really seemed like it was
more of an exploitation thing because this company did not
do the bear Bear Bear minimum to keep their users safe,
and then their user's information, including driver's licenses that were
used to verify people's genders to sign up, were leaked
by four Chan. We also covered the male version of

(04:31):
the t app for men to post tea about the
women that they were interested in dating, and they also
had their information leak. So everybody's getting their informational leaked
and exposed. Equality. We've done it, gender equality. What is
wild to me is that even as those leaks happened,
like when the Tea app was in the news and
the Tea on Her app was in the news because

(04:52):
of this massive, massive leak, both versions of the app
were incredibly popular, more popular than ever and so I
don't know what it says about us, but people were
continuing to use the apps.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, it's disappointing, but not that surprising. I think there's
a lot of digital nihilism out there where people just
feel like, well, my data is already out there, so
what's the harm of just completely exposing my photo of
my driver's license and my name and birth date to
my address and my address to all of the internet.

(05:28):
To be clear, there's people who are deeply misguided and
we need to help them realize that they're incorrect. I'd
suspect that's a lot of it.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
So we have another update, which is that both the
Tea app and the Tea on Her app have been
removed from the Apple App Store. Four for media who
initially broke this Massive story said that Apple told Zam
in an email that it had removed the app as
well as the tea on her app, for failing to
meet the company's terms of use around content moderation and
user privacy. Apple also said that it received an excessive

(05:57):
number of complaints, including ones about the personal data of
miners being posted on the app. So pretty bad. Apple
said that it has parts of its guidelines that say
that apps are not allowed to share someone's personal data
without their permission, and that any app on their app
store needs to have a mechanism for reporting objectionable content. Mike,
do you have any idea how the t app is

(06:19):
responding to all of this being taken down off the
app store?

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Uh? Are they posting on the teon app stores?

Speaker 1 (06:27):
App? No, but that would be pretty good if they were.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Watch out for Apple.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
This company will kick you off of their app store
without any warning. So Weirdly, the te app is still
just posting on social media like none of this ever happened.
Their most recent post and I checked this was their
most recent post as of US recording. This was on Instagram,
where they say the first ever girls only space that
truly amplifies women's voices and gives them an anonymous space

(06:55):
to share their experiences, find comfort, and get the info
they need on the men they're talking to. In the
name of all caps dating safety heart emoji. So the
te app is just posting through it, and I honestly
think that says a lot about the ethos of this
particular app. You know, the te app branded itself as
this tool that was all about women's empowerment and women's safety.

(07:18):
The founder shared this story, which turned out to be
I would, in my opinion, obvious bs about how he
decided to make the app because his mom had been
on a bunch of bad days with people who had
criminal records, and he just wanted to make a platform
for women to be able to stay safe. For for media,
talk to a woman who the founder had been trying

(07:39):
to come on board as the founder, and she's like, oh,
I never heard that story. That story is made up,
And I think, you know, it's this platform that was
trying to brand itself this way, but at the end
of the day, it was just another data hungry startup
trying to use feminism and women's safety as a marketing hook.
Like a lot of these stories, I feel they end
the same way a privacy scandal and then a takedown,

(08:02):
and I guess for the tea app, just like fronting
on social media pretending that everything is fine.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
I have to wonder if there's even anybody behind that
social media account at this point, Like, given how just
piss poor they were about like security and building the
app itself, I have to imagine that an equal amount
of non care went into their social media work. And
like I would not be surprised if they just had

(08:29):
chat GPT spit out like a thousand little tweets worth
of content and then scheduled them for the rest of time.
And so it's just like a zombie account posting the
hope that a little bore data trickles it.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
That's sweet, sweet data. Okay, So, speaking of obvious scams,
we told you in our episode about Charlie Kirk how
the literal day after Charlie Kirk was murdered, a site
sprang up promising to unmask anybody not being sufficiently mournful
in the wake of his death. And that site kind
of seemed like it was scamming people, Like from the jump,

(09:07):
I remember going to that site and being like, who
put their information? Into the site. Well, that site, initially
called Exposed Charlie's Murderers, promised to make a searchable trove
of names and workplaces for quote, the largest firing operation
in history. Charlie Kirk would have been so proud. According

(09:27):
to drop site News, the website listed six cryptocurrency blockchains
and asked supporters to fund a quote highly sophisticated enterprise
system that will be impervious to leftist attacks. Basically, it
sounds like whoever set this up just collected a bunch
of money and then dipped. Over a two day period,
the websites anonymous developers collected more than thirty thousand dollars

(09:47):
per coin tracker software used for crypto based taxes. Folks
went recall, they were initially called Exposed Charlie's Murderers, and
then they rebranded as the Charlie Kirk Data Foundation on
September fourteenth. Then the site it was deplatformed, and now
they've basically disappeared altogether. With that thirty thousand dollars of donation,
it really just seems like, according to this piece and

(10:09):
drop site News, THETIS took a bunch of people's money
and then bounced the group has not responded to several
inquiries from drop site about where their donations went and
whether or not they're still planning to create that big
database for all the firings. And a lot of the
folks who spent money on this enterprise are not happy.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
I bez probably really upsetting to be a dope. I
love how they went from let's make a list of
leftists we don't like to let's build a highly sophisticated
enterprise system with your money, please.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
And then wound up with just give us the money
and we'll be on our way.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, like, you know what this is. This is a scam.
Just just hand it over.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
You know what it is. So yeah, people might have
gotten scammed thirty thousand dollars one hundred and ninety crypto
payments and what do they have to show for it
a ghost website and like a bunch angry donors. And again,
just like the t app, I think it is a
reminder that in this age of online outrage and online morality,
there is always someone ready to monetize your outrage, and

(11:14):
sometimes they will just vanish poof done gone. And just
like the t app, I mean, my big thing with
the tapp was that I could sense that it was
a company that I thought was trying to materially capitalize
on gender war's outrage, and so that was sort of
like how they were getting their their marketing. And so

(11:34):
I just think that any company that pops up, in
this case literally overnight, promising to turn your anger or
your fear into something more is probably a company worth
thinking twice about getting involved in.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
That is such good advice, and there's not a lot
of like universal good advice in the day and age.
But I feel like anybody who is trying to encourage
you to push the gas on your outrage, that's like
a huge red flag.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Oh yes, Like, oh, you're outraged, you're angry, you're fearful.
We'll give us your driver's license and forty dollars. We
can take this to the next level. That should be.
That should be a big red flag for anybody across
the board.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Even before they get to the part where they make
that ask for the money. Just like you should lean
into that anger, you should lean into that fear. You're
right to feel those things. We need to punish the
people who have done this to you. That's just not
not something that somebody who's trying to help is gonna.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Say absolutely not. Speaking of not trying to help, big
text capitulation to the Trump administration continues. This time it
is Spotify and Ice. So we talked a while back
about how a number of musicians like Massive Attack, one
of my favorite groups Sylvia and Esso, one of your
favorite groups Mike Cagen, Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard, which

(12:59):
the first time you told me about that group, I
for the entirety of the conversation I did not know
if you were making it up. We're not. I said, Oh,
this is a real band. There's a band that you
are you trying to get one over on you with
this band name.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
You have no idea how many albums they have.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
I still don't know if they're a real band or not.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Oh they're real bad. They rock. They are awesome, talented
musicians who just like crank out music. Go listen to Rattlesnake.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Okay, well you're gonna like them even more now because
they have all taken their music off of Spotify. A
lot of these artists site Spotify founder Daniel x investment
in the AI military company at Helsing for why they
have removed their music from the platform, and now it's
gone from worse to worser, as they say online, because
Spotify is running these horrible ICE recruitment ads on their

(13:50):
non paid ad supported tier. The ads say in sanctuary cities,
you're ordered to stand down while dangerous illegals walk free,
and urge listeners to quote fulfill their mission and join
the mission to protect America by joining ICE. I should say,
it is not just Spotify either, YouTube, Pandora, HBO, Max
and others also have these ads on their platforms.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Pretty distasteful, right, it is distasteful.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Well, don't worry because a Spotify spokesperson says the ads
do not violate Spotify advertising policy and that Spotify has
no intention of discontinuing those ads. And the spokesperson says,
chill out, y'all, because if you don't want to hear
these ads, listeners are free to thumbs up or thumbs
down these ads, which would supposedly mean that I guess

(14:37):
these ads would play a little less often on your
personalized feed. To me, that simply does not address the problem.
And the fact that the spokesperson was like, oh, people
can just like say they don't like these ads. Via
thumbs down. It just shows to me how not seriously
Spotify is taking this.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
I also love how the ads just become like another
form of content, like, oh, I love this ad, Give
me more of these ads. No one says that no
one wants that.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Stereo Gum reports at the record label Epitaph, which has
bands like Bad Religion and Pennywise, and then their sister
label Anti, which has musicians like Nico Kase, Nick Cave,
and Tom Waits, have both posted a message calling for
Spotify to remove these ads. So Snopes reached out to
the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees ICE, about these ads.

(15:22):
The assistant DJs secretary responded basically saying, Yeah, We're doing
a huge nationwide recruitment campaign, saying, quote, the ICE recruitment
campaign is a resounding success, with more than one hundred
and fifty applications rolling in from patriotic Americans answering the
call to defend the whole land by helping to arrest
and remove the worst of the worst from our country.

(15:42):
You know people who are being arrested lawfully at court
appointments or appointments with their attorney, or people who are
trying to pursue gainful employment to put food on their table,
you know, the worst of the worst people.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
It's one of the most cruel and duplicitous things this
cruel and DUPLICITUS administration has done, in continues doing, is
attempting to smear all immigrants to this country as the
worst of the worst, as if everyone who's an immigrant
here is like a dangerous criminal, when the data is
pretty clear that immigrants in this country are less likely
to commit violent crimes than native port Americans.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yes, and I think you know, first of all, don't
let anybody ever tell you that technology is neutral ever again,
because I think what these Spotify ads really show us
is how deeply entwined big tech has become with government
power and our current administration, even the most odious parts
of it. When you have platforms claiming neutrality while profiting
off of these ice recruitment ads, it's not neutral at all.

(16:38):
It is a choice for artists who see their music
as protests. That choice probably makes Spotify feel a lot
less like a platform for creativity and more like an
arm of the state. And I think the content of
these ads, in the ads, they're not even pretending to
be neutral. Right. They don't sound like ads that are
recruiting people to nonpartisan civil service or government jobs. They

(17:01):
sound like campaign ads for the Trump administration. The ads
are partisan as hell.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, they use the exact same language, and like most
messaging out of the Trump administration, they're full of lies,
lies about people, and lies about our cities being prime
ridden hell holes filled with the worst of the worst,
as they call it.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, there's nothing neutral about it. And people are leaving
Spotify in protests. And so if you are hearing this
and you're like, fuck Ice, fuck Spotify, just go to
bit dot lea slash cancel Spotify. They have an entire
page of resources to help organize folks who are interested
in bore hiding Spotify. We will put that in the
show notes more after a quick.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
Break, let's get right back into it.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Speaking of ICE lies, I don't think anybody needs to
be reminded that Homeland Security Secretary Christy no is a liar.
But now she is lying on a specific black youth.
So she has been saying that drug cartels were placing
bounties on ICE agent's heads. Then the official DHS account
posted a video purporting to show a young black man

(18:23):
featuring an on screen message that reads Ice We're on
the way. Word in the streets cartels put a fifty
k bounty on y'all. Only the person in this video said,
I never said that. That was not what my video
was about. They stole my video and made this up.
So he said it was an old TikTok that he
made where he wasn't talking about Ice at all. He

(18:44):
was actually talking about Iran as a joke, and that
DHS took the video edited it to make it seem
like he was threatening Ice before disseminating it. Here's a
little bit of what he had to say.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
And I've seen the caps and then I was like, wait,
I didn't do that. Still got the video saved on
my draft months ago. On TikTok bro, I was like,
I'm gonna pull it up right here. Now here's the
fucked up part. The federal government is involved with something
that I didn't do. Like what, So this is what

(19:16):
they reposted offline TikTok. That video got taken down, So
here's what they reposted on their page. Now that video
was going crazy him on Twitter. Bro, Now I'm a
threat to the government or something that I didn't do

(19:38):
bro I'm being called I want to be jy in,
I want to be gangster over a video that I
didn't caption or.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
What do you post?

Speaker 1 (19:50):
D just is sticking by what they said. A DHS
spokesperson told The Independent, this young man posted violent threats
of murder against our law enforcement. He then deleted it
when he was called out in attempted to deny all wrongdoing.
We have the receipts and the Internet is forever. DHS
did not edit, change, use AI or any other manner
to alter this video. So I don't know for sure,

(20:10):
and this is just my opinion about how they are
able to say this about this man's video. This man
has been so clear that it was aboudy Run. I
never mentioned ice. This video was months old. What they're
saying is not true. I think what DHS is saying
is that we did not use AI or edit the video,
but that putting text on somebody else's video. They're probably

(20:33):
banking on people not seeing that as editing because that
is so commonplace on TikTok. So they're saying we didn't
change what he does in the video via AI or
manipulate it. But in my opinion. What they're probably leaving
out pretty crucially is that certainly he did not put
that text on the screen about a fifty k bounty.

(20:53):
They added that, So I think that they're kind of
it kind of reminds me of the MS Doen with
the MS thirteen thing, where they very clearly went in
and typed MS thirteen on a tattoo for President Trump,
and then later in a debate, it was clear that
President Trump did not understand that somebody had obviously gone
in and written MS thirteen, but that was not the

(21:15):
literal image of a tattoo. And like, it's the semantics
that they get so stupid. But I think that's what's
going on here. If I had to say, this is
just my opinion, I.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Mean, it makes sense what you've described. It's insane that
that is something that the Department's Nansecurity could be credibly
accused of doing. But absolutely, I mean, they they used
that same kind of like gotcha technicalities about semantics and

(21:44):
court filings with judges, So why wouldn't they use with
the American public the words they had on the screen,
ice were on the way word in the street cartels
put a fifty K bounty on you all. So, like,
what we're supposed to believe is that this youth heard
somebody on the streets say that some unspecified cartels have

(22:08):
a bounty, and so he's hoping to collect that. He's
just gonna like attack an ICE officer and then show
up at some unspecified cartel headquarters and be like, where's
my fifty thousand dollars. That's what we're meant to believe
is a real thing.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, it doesn't quite pass the Smith test with me either,
I have to say. And who wouldn't want to join
the ranks of an organization like this? Who wouldn't want
to work with people like this?

Speaker 2 (22:40):
God? Yeah, yeah, that's just the I mean, they talk
about going after the worst of the worst, they should
really look at their own ranks, like these are not
the best of the best.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
They're not sending their best. Okay, So this is a
little bit of a tough story, so trigger warning up top,
But we have to talk about the climate going on
toward women stream right now. Weeks ago, streamers Bealcree and
qt Cinderella said that they were really worried about going
to TwitchCon this year, which is a big gathering of
live streamers and the people that watch them. They were

(23:12):
specifically concerned about things like lack security at events where
live streamers gather after some pretty high profile events where
folks were able to crash those events. They also pointed
to an increasing number of violent or harassing incidents, specifically
targeting women who make digital content and live stream content.

(23:32):
Twitch is CEO Dan Clancy, who runs TwitchCon, which is
owned by Amazon, said that the company takes security very seriously,
but unfortunately, on the first day of TwitchCon, the popular
streamer Amiru was assaulted during a meet and greet at
the event. So I saw the video of what happened.
It's horrifying. She's standing there, there's people around, and basically

(23:55):
this big guy rushes up to her and grabs her.
To me, I mean, I wasn't there, but to me,
it almost looked like he was trying to choke her,
but other people said that he was trying to grab
her to kiss her. Either way, it is terrifying. Her
security guard, who was standing nearby, shoves the man, and
then the man is just sort of allowed to visibly

(24:16):
kind of walk away. Twitch later clarifies that that man
was found, apprehended and removed from the event and banned
from future events. According to Tube Filter, they say that
it's worth noting that the security personnel who pushed that
man is not this streamer's preferred bodyguard, because her preferred
bodyguard was perma ban from twitch Con because at a

(24:37):
previous event he physically stopped a man who had been
stalking Amru around the convention. Now, she explained that her
bodyguard did not push, punch, or hurt the stalker in
any way. He just held him in place. But because
he physically engaged the stalker, he is no longer allowed
to work with her or protector at twitch con events.
So when she was assaulted at twitch Con this time around,

(25:00):
her preferred security guard was not there because these organizers
had banned him. So, in a statement, Amiru disputed much
of Twitch's account of what happened during this assault. She
said that they what they said was a blatant lie.
Here's what she had to say about the incident yesterday.
The man who assaulted me was allowed to cross multiple
barriers at twitch Con, and even in front of another

(25:21):
creator's meet and greet, tried to grab me and kiss me.
Fortunately he wasn't able to, but a lot of people
have pointed out that could have been a lot worse.
I'm obviously shaken up by what happened, and it's not
the first time that I've dealt with something like this,
But to tell you honestly, I'm a lot more hurt
and upset by how Twitch handled it during and after
the fact. I don't understand how he was allowed to
make it to me in the first place. The security

(25:43):
in the clip who reacts is my own security. It's true.
My favorite and usual security guard was banned for holding
a stalker's arm to bring him to police at a
past TWITCHCN. However, there were at least three or four
other TWITCHCN security staff in the area who did not react.
I left the guy walk away, as you can see
in the clips since they don't even appear in the
frame lol. She says that the people in the clip

(26:03):
who are checking on her are her own friends and staff,
and that none of the twitch con staff even came
to ask what was happening or that she was okay.
It gets worse because she says, my friend who was
present told me Twitch security were also behind the booth afterward,
joking about how they didn't see what happened and immediately
laughing and moving on to talk about something else. So

(26:24):
if no one was checking if I was okay or
needed anything, and they let the guy run away initially,
I have no idea what anyone hired to keep the
event safe was doing. In Twitch's statement, they said the
guy was immediately caught and attained. I'm sorry, but that
is a blatant lie. He was allowed to walk away
from my meet and greet and I didn't hear that
he was caught until hours after he attacked me. And

(26:44):
it felt like this only happened because of my manager
pressing for it, not because TWITCHCN staff present thought it
was a big deal. And yeah, I really feel for her.
It's horrifying that this has happened. You know, there have
been other incidents where people run up on celebrities or
public figures that they have parasocial relationships with and things

(27:05):
end much worse. You know, people like Christina Grimmy who
in twenty sixteen was doing a meet and greet and
was killed by a obsessive stalker who went up to
her meet and greet and murdered her, like, just in
front of all of her fans. And so what this
live streamer is saying is absolutely true. As horrifying as
what happened to her is, it genuinely could have been

(27:27):
a lot worse. And it sounds like what she's saying
is that TWITCHCN staff didn't do a ton to make
sure that she was okay afterward, and that TWITCHCN staff
really neglected to take this kind of thing seriously, to
the point where she says, I'm never coming back to
one of these things again, which honestly, I can't even
blame her.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, I don't blame her either.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
It sounds to me that women in this community had
been warning about the way that this community treats women
contact graders for some time. Here's how NBC put it
to many fans online, her assault validated long running fears
that streamer safety at in person event, particularly scheduled meet
and greets where fans know exactly where a particular creator
will be ahead of time. Some streamers online claim that

(28:09):
they canceled their meet and greets or skipped this year's
Switchcon all together because of existing concerns about security, while
others said that they plan to shun future twitch Con
events in solidarity with Amiru. So I think that one
It's the tale as all the time that we talk
about on the show all the time, of women saying, hey,
this thing is happening in the community. It is potentially dangerous,

(28:30):
somebody needs to do something. It not being taken super seriously,
it being allowed to fester, the women sort of being
made to just deal with it on their own, and
this kind of thing happening. But I also do think,
if I'm just being real, I think that Twitch probably
is the kind of company where they make their real
money from their mega users, people who probably are more

(28:53):
likely to have a deep, unhealthy parasocial relationship with some
of their favorite contact creators, right, And so I have
feeling that Twitch perhaps does not want to alienate those
people because they are their cash cows. They are making
a ton of money from them, and so the company
probably can't really alienate the people who there are making
the company the most money, and that is just got

(29:15):
to be more likely to be the kind of people
who have unhealthy relationships or parasocial relationships with streamers, and
so that has to be part of the problem here.
Of like, Twitch probably doesn't want to just ban all
these people because there's tons of money to be made
from these people.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
Certainly checks out with what we've seen just across tech
companies in general. And also you know the fact that
Twitch is the platform on which this all of this happens, right,
It's like it's a platform and it's also kind of
an ecosystem where these creators make their living and fans

(29:55):
and viewers. I think many, not all, but like many
spend a lot of their time watching streamers on this platform.
And so it's both like sort of tempting to call
it like a decentralized ecosystem where there are creators and
viewers and money flowing back and forth, but also like

(30:15):
very not decentralized, and there's really like one you know,
Twitch like runs the whole thing, And what a lot
of power to have over a community like this.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
More after a quick break, let's get right back into it.
So open Ai just released their web browser called Atlas,

(30:52):
and I've been reading into it. I've not used it myself.
I'll get to why in a moment, but I think
folks should be a little bit wary of at List
because Atlas sounds to me like a privacy nightmare, even
in a landscape where a lot of browsers are bad
on privacy. According to a piece I read in the
Post called shashypt just came out with its own web browser.

(31:14):
Use it with caution. The browser from open ai out
surveils even Google Chrome, and that is saying something. It
doesn't just log which websites you visit. It also stores
quote memories of what you look at and what you
do on those sites. It can even grab control of
your mouth and browse for you. Yikes. Atlas works to

(31:35):
learn a ton about you if you grant permission during setup,
the browser build a trove of memories about the sites
that you visit and surfaces them when you need them,
so you could tell at Liss, for instance, open the
Halloween decorations I was looking at last week in some tabs,
and it could do it. Creepy. Atlass remembers not just
website addresses, but quote facts and insights from the sites themselves,

(31:58):
based on summaries of the content open ai makes on
its own surfers. So for instance, it might remember that
you have a trip coming up and that you prefer
Delta airlines and use Google Calendars, so these memories would
shape your experience across the browser. CHATGBT then tailor's its
responses to your Atlas memories in future chats, and the
browser's home screen offers personalized suggestions of things that you

(32:20):
should do next, such as find a vegetarian recipe. So,
if you are cool with trading this amount of your
privacy and data security for convenience, maybe all of this
doesn't sound so bad. Maybe you're like, oh, it will
be convenient for my browser to know that I only
fly Delta and surface me Delta flights only.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Right, I was just talking about digital nihilism. Sure, let's go.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
I mean, on the one hand, I hear it, right,
I hear that how it would be very convenient.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
These things would be super convenient. But at what cost?

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Bridget I mean, is it really that much we're convenient?
Is it that hard to just go to Google flights
and then pick out the Delta flights yourself? Is it
really that big of a convenience?

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Oh my god, I already looked up these Halloween decorations
last week. I'm supposed to do it again. Now, what
are computers for?

Speaker 1 (33:12):
Like, even in these examples that they're giving us, where
clearly this is open aiyes, rosy version of it, where
it's going to save you so much time and effort.
It doesn't really sound like it saves you that much time.
I mean, we're ultimately just talking about getting keys on
a keyboard here and clicking a mouth.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yeah. But anyway, so it would be convenient. So is
that the whole thing, just like the convenience of privacy?

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, just can end the seglement right there. That's it.
Nothing else to say. Oh wait, only it does not
take much to imagine the kind of memories that you
might not want your search engine remembering about you forever.
And I gotta say this level of surveillance and remembering
is particularly fraught in our current social and political climate.

(33:53):
For instance, when Jeffrey Fowler from The Post asked open
ai if governments would be able to ask open ai
to hand over people's browsing data and memories, or what
happens if they're researching activities that are not legal in
certain states, such as abortion, open ai did not immediately
reply to his question, which, Yeah, for as convenient as

(34:14):
it would be to not have to sort through all
the non delta flights that are being serviced for me,
this feels bad to me.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah, you could also imagine a lot of things beyond
abortion that you might not want the Trump administration knowing
about you engaging, and certainly abortion is high the list.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
But like.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Who you voted for, what kind of questions you might
have about the Trump administration? Who knows what these creeps
might want to know about us? And I have seen
very little evidence to make me believe that open AI
or any other big tech company would not just happily

(34:58):
hand it over.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
So that's bad. But there is one good thing that
has come from this, and this is a review of
Atlas from AI security pioneer does zd Susanna Cox? Can
I read this to you? Because it is phenomenal?

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yes? Please?

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Do you love how much memory Chrome uses? But we
should spy on you more? And also as a bonus,
came with multiple security back doors. Well, great news. Open
ais new browser promises to deliver on all three. It's
called Atlas, and it finally answers the question can a
browser be even more insecure, privacy violating and bloated? Yes,

(35:35):
now it can. We've all been there reading the stupid
Internet with our boring eyeholes, using our own brains like
a bunch of literal primates, and thought there has to
be a better way. Well, now there is wish your
financial information was guarded with all the prompt injectable security
of AI agents. Guess what Atlas can make purchases? Want

(35:59):
to browser that reads everything you do and reports it
to big tech slash the government slash Sam Altman's a
personal media bank. Now you can have it all in Atlas,
the AI powered browser. Simply turn over all your financial information,
browsing habits, and details of your personal life to a
big company and start to feel smarter slash more productive,

(36:19):
slash cooler, slash more attractive, slash wealthier right away. Wow.
Thanks AI.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Wow that was art. That was really good.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
So at least we got that review out of the
whole thing.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
It's probably worth it.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
I don't know if you know this about me, but
I really dig this report that comes out of UCLA
Center for Scholars and Storytellers every year called Teens and Screens.
It's one of the dorkiest things about me that when
this report comes out I comb through it. I just
find it so interesting. And basically this report offers insights
into the taste and preferences of young media consumers.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Oh that's really interesting. Why do you like this? Particular one.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
So I just think that young media consumers, they can
really tell us a lot about where we're headed. And
they're also a niche, a niche group that I think
is very easy to not listen to, and so they'll
be telling us, Hey, we want XYZ, and it's just
very easy for people to be like, you don't want X,
you want Y. So something about this report, I just

(37:20):
think it really tells us a lot about what young
people are feeling and thinking about media, as opposed to
listing to people talk over them about what they want
from media. This year's report is titled get Real Relatability
on Demand because the finding show that teens and youth
are really craving things like relatability and authentic representations across

(37:42):
metrics as it pertains to media right now. So, the
study surveyed fifteen hundred Americans between the ages of ten
and twenty four about their media consumption, habits, and preferences.
According to Variety, the sample was proportionally reflective of the
United States gen Z population in terms of racial, ethnic, gender, sexuality, ability, economic,
and geographic diversity.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
That is pretty cool. Uh So, how are young Americans
consuming media?

Speaker 1 (38:09):
Well, I would say This was probably the most surprising
bit from the study, which is that surprisingly, young people
are not completely done with traditional media. I would have
thought that young people are only getting their media from
social media. Not the case. According to this study, fifty
three percent of young Americans discuss movies and television shows
with friends more than they discuss content that they watch

(38:30):
on social media, which really surprised me because I would
be thinking, Oh, what young people are consuming television and movies.
They're all this watching, They're all this watching with TikTok's right. No,
not so. They also really like animation, which I of
course love because I love animation. Gen Z shows a
distinct preference for animation. The percentage of adolescents who prefer

(38:51):
animated content over live action rose from forty two percent
last year to forty eight point five percent this year.
And that is not just for younger teens. Really, forty
eight percent of respondents aged nineteen to twenty four also
preferred animation. I I'm so curious what that is about.
I would say I also have a slight preference toward
animated content. I wish I could say what that was about.

(39:15):
I don't really know what it's about. With me, and
I'm so curious what this is about for the younger
folks surveyed.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah, it's a good question. I also have always really
liked animation, and it's tempting the things that maybe the
young people are just like coming around to finally see
things the way that I do. But I suspect that's
probably not what's actually happening here.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
You want to know something else young people are into?
According to this.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Study, Uh, what else are they into?

Speaker 1 (39:44):
It's so wholesome just going to see movies with their friends.
Going to see a new movie in theaters would be
the top ranked weekend activity for a second year in
a row if cost were not a factor. And teens
are saying they would rather go see a new movie
in the theater with their friends over playing video games
with friends or going to concerts with friends.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Oh, they want to go see a movie. I get it.
Going to see a movie. Uh remember just a couple
of years ago, people were like, no one's ever gonna
go to the movies again. The theaters are dying. Seems
like that's not really happening.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
In our episode with Stacy Spikes, the founder of movie Pass,
he dropped a surprising stat on me that going to
see movies in theater is still the number one leisure
activity of Americans, which again I also hear things like, oh,
scening is gonna kill movie theaters. Nobody's gonna go to
the movies anymore. I just went to see an theatrical
release of that new Paul Thomas Anderson movie One Battle

(40:37):
after Another. I went on an off time, I went
during I went weekday Mattine, completely packed, house full theater.
So from my total experiences, people are still going to
the movies, and the teens agree with me.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Oh you saw what a Battle after Another? I've seen
so many people talking about that. What did you think?

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Hey, this is future bridget So just real quick, Mike
and I have a very quick spoiler free discussion of
the movie One Battle after Another. Here we share a
few basic overarching comments about the movie, but no real spoilers,
but just an FYI after trying to go win one
hundred percent fresh before seeing the movie. Okay, here we go.
So I love Paul Thomas Anderson. Boogie Knights is my

(41:17):
favorite movie of all time. If anybody asked me what
my favorite movie is, I will probably say Boogie Knights.
It's a masterpiece. So Paul Thomas Anderson is my guy.
I love him. I really liked one battle after another.
I thought it was a perfectly enjoyable movie. I thought
it was a good time. It was a long movie,
but it was one of those movies where you're never

(41:40):
You're never looking at your watch thinking how long I
have I've been in the theater. I don't know if
I would say how I felt about the movie matches
the hype that I feel like it got, and I
don't want to give anything away for folks who haven't
seen it. I have big Let's just say, I have
big questions about some of the way that the movie

(42:03):
deals with race, particularly black women. I think I don't
if folks haven't seen it. If you've seen it, I
want to talk about it with you, because a lot
of my friends have not seen it. There's one and
I don't want to give it a thing away, So
I'm speaking very cryptically and people people who haven't seen
it or like this is boring as hell. But there's
one particular character, and if you've seen the movie, you
know exactly who I'm talking about that I feel like

(42:25):
we are not really let into what the fuck is
going on with her? And why? And I feel like
I have a lot of questions And I don't think
it was the most loving depiction of black women I've
ever seen on screen. I'll put it that way. What
did you think about it? Uh?

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Well, yeah, I also don't want to like surprise spoil
people who haven't seen it yet. I agree it was
It was a fun movie. It was funny, It was
well paced, It was like really well acted, just a
bunch of like great actors doing a phenomenal job with it.
If I were to criticize it, I would say that,
like it deals with some themes that feel like very

(43:06):
relevant right now. Uh, and I think that's part of
what's contributing to the hype. But I feel like it
deals with them kind of superficially. And uh, you know,
I after I left the theater, I was like, that
was fun. But then thinking back on it, I was like, well,
why did that character do that? Like, what was that
character's motivation?

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Why?

Speaker 2 (43:28):
And why is it important? Why do I as a
viewer like care about them? I Yeah, that was kind
of my impression was it was a fun, good action movie.
A lot to like about it, but not like it
wasn't a deep thinker.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
Maybe because you can sneak in a recap episode and
we'll make it fit the text theme or fuck it,
maybe a we'll just have a one off, like I
want to talk about this movie episode and I'm owed
that I've been doing this over five years.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
That can Oh that all right, Well, don't don't turn
against the little structures that we have here.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Oh you know that if you let me, it'll just
be like a straight You know, we rewatched Missus Doubt
Fire the other day and I was like, this might
make a good carecap. You were like, what about this
is technology? It's like nothing isn't an interesting movie.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, we have to draw the lines somewhere.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Okay, So back to the teens. Teens are really craving
relatable media and relatable stories right now. Thirty two percent
that they want to see relatable stories on screen more
so than in fantasy or aspirational stories. They want to
see stories with quote people with lives like mine. I
have to imagine that's why super wealthy, out of touch

(44:46):
celebrities is just not clicking with people anymore, particularly used
people like Kim Kardashian. I think that like in this
day and age, nobody really wants to see that, even
if you at one point you could connect with that Aspirationally,
young people are really not trying to see people living
these aspirational, out of touch stories. What they want is
people who have relatable lives and relatable stories and lives

(45:07):
like theirs. The fourteen to twenty four demographic, they show
significant preferences for stories about friendship. Specifically, almost sixty percent
say that they want to see more content where the
central relationship are friendship, and they are a little less
interested in romantic relationships on screen. Fifty four point nine
percent want to see more different gender friendships on screen,

(45:28):
while forty nine percent want to see same gender friendships,
and specifically, they want to see friendships where they have
healthy conflicts resolution. I really do feel like young people
are telling us something about about their lives and what
they want their lives and relationships to be like. They
want they want friendship and healthy friendships at the core

(45:49):
of their lives, and they want to see friends have conflict,
but where that conflict that when it does come up,
it's resolved in a healthy manner. And part of me
wonders if that's a reaction to our our current online
ecosystem where it seems like nothing could ever be be
no life could ever be managed in a healthy in
a healthy way.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of very interesting stuff
to dig into there about Like, you know, one of
the functions that entertainment has served for years and years
is to show people something aspirational, right, Like, it's the
stuff that people want to see in entertainment. It's something
that they aspire to. And it sounds like for many

(46:27):
of the young people in this survey for the traditional
ideas of aspirational lifestyles of celebrities and wealthy people are
not resonating, and what they do aspire to is like
healthy friendships and healthy conflict resolution. Maybe because it's like
kind of scarce these days, or at least seems pretty scarce.

(46:49):
I think that's got to be part of it.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
And they're really not interested in things like sex or
romantic relationships being depicted on screen. Romance actually ranked third
to last on the list of topics that you want
to see explored on screens, and sixty point nine percent
said that they want to see romantic relationship depicted as
quote more about the friendship between the couple than sex.

(47:12):
Forty eight point four percent said that there is too
much sex and sexual content in TV and movies. Toxic
relationships and love triangles also ranked among the most tiresome
or uninteresting tropes for young viewers. I know that there
has been a ton of talk about gen Z being
prudes or prudish or having an issue with sex, but

(47:33):
I'm sure some of that is true, and I want
to dig into that, but it does seem like what
they're telling us is that they want friendships, healthy friendships
with healthy conflict resolution at the heart, and they want genuine,
real connection. And I don't know, Maybe it's not that
gen Z is prudish. Maybe they're just tired of seeing
intimacy without intimacy right. Like what they're asking for is

(47:56):
not less love, but maybe like a different kind of
love that feels grounded in connection and friendship and care,
not just chemistry. And I say this as someone who
is fully like a horny person who is only really
interested in horny content. But the results of this survey
when it comes to wanting to see sex on screen,
could not have been more different than I felt. When

(48:18):
I was young, all I wanted to do was like
watch horny people on screen when I was a young person,
and that has not changed. So I have to say that.
But I also get where they're coming from. Of saying, hey,
I can get sexy content anywhere. I want to see real,
healthy media relationships and friendships on screen, not just horny content.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
It makes sense. I mean sex is ubiquitous on the internet, right,
You're always like two clicks away, maybe three.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
It's true. And again, when I was in high school,
my favorite film was The Talented Mister Ripley, which is
a film about horny hot people having horny hot antics.
But I can absolutely understand where these young people are
coming from.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Who would you say is the best friend in Talented
Mister Ripley.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Oh that's easy. Freddie played by the late Philip timour Hoffman.
May he rest in peace. Also, he's a real show
stealer in that movie. Every scene that he's that he's in,
he's like popping off the screen. He's one of my
favorite actors. Also fantastic and Billion Knights by the way,
a little callback. But yeah, if there was, if there were,
if there was a best friend in that movie, I
think you would have to go to Freddie. But even

(49:28):
Freddy is a hornball. The first time that you see Freddy,
the first he's it's It's one of my favorite character
being introduced in a movie ever. He's driving his tiny
supports car through a plaza in Italy Park someplace he's
not supposed to park, and then gets out and then
sleers on a woman walking by and says, don't you
want to fuck every woman you see? Just once? Bravo?

(49:52):
May he rest in peace?

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yeah? Interesting choice for best friend because he's pretty like
self motivated. He I don't think that he it is
motivated by any particular love of Dicky. He just hates Tom.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Yes, he just hates Tom. I think that when I
was growing up there was an intersection of being a
theater kid, a computer kid, and horny because when I
was growing up, there was another movie that came out
when I was just leaving high school called Closer, another
Jude Law movie now that i'm thinking about it, and

(50:24):
it was all about these grown up, sexy adults in
London having horny, sexy misunderstandings. All these movies that I
was when I was watching when I was young. Closer
I'm not even sure was a good movie. I think
I was just horny.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
It also had a kick ass soundtrack, it did did?

Speaker 1 (50:42):
I had it on CD? Man, I was if you
if you were a nerdy person who was falling in
the falling deep into the world of like fantasy through film,
what were the movies that you were obsessed with when
you were coming up? I need to know this. I'm sure.
I'm sure we have some overlap.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Do do you have any movie? Tank Girl?

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Oh? My god, who do you think you're talking to? Man?

Speaker 2 (51:05):
I remember, like me and a couple of my friends
we were having a sleepover at my friend's house. Like
that's how old we were. We were not driving, like
like our moms had dropped us off, and we went
to the video store. We rented Tank Girl and we
watched it like three times in a row.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
The old heads. No, it was all about jet Girl. Actually,
oh yes, she was remember a tank Girl's friend.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Mm hmmm, I sure do friend. She was a good friend.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Yeah, gen Z would love that movie. It is It's
a it's an exploration of complex friendship on screen. We
need more of that.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Yeah, they probably would. They probably like that a lot
better than telling mister Ripley. They'd probably make them uncomfortable or.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
I mean, even when I was reading this this survey,
I was like, Okay, well, youth don't like you know,
love triangles and toxic love and sex on screen, but
the terrible sort of reimagining of coal to mister Ripley Saltburn,
which I actually do kind of love. And there were
movies that were super horny that I think we're popular

(52:15):
with youth challengers. It's another one. So I don't know,
I will be curious to put that in conversation with
the survey of what do the youth want? What are
they into?

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Yeah, and you know, as a science social scientist, I
like hate to burst the bubble and rain on the parade.
But like sometimes sometimes kids lie on surveys.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
So kids are like, I would never want to see
sex on screen? Are you crazy? Yeah? Who would want
such a thing?

Speaker 2 (52:41):
And maybe it's not lying, you know, but it's like
everybody has trouble with surveys, especially things about like preferences,
Like even adults, we don't know what we want. We
struggle to articulate what we want even if we know
what it is, and half the time we don't even
know what we want, and so asking like a fourteen

(53:03):
year old to report what kind of entertainment one. It's
super valuable to do And I no way mean to
diminish the surveys like so wonderful to like actually have
data on what they say. Uh, but like we do
need to interpret it with like a little bit of
a grain of salt that like, perhaps it is not
a clear window into the mind of the youth, and

(53:27):
in fact that there probably is a little bit of
like aspirational filtering in the way that they respond on
a survey like this.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
There's a podcast that I love called uh Yeah, Dude
where they read surveys and they're always so funny and
the surveys. I always find this fascinating because it'll be
it'll be the most basic question question on a survey.
Do you own a toaster oven? No? Twenty percent? Yes,

(53:56):
ten percent? I'm not sure. I can't answer. I don't know.
Who are these people who's like, you know, they'll ask
the most basic questions about their lives. Did you go
out of the country this year? Yes? No, I couldn't
say for sure. I don't know, Like what do you mean?
What as as they ask somebody who designed surveys, what

(54:17):
accounts for that.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
It could be any number of things, like maybe they
genuinely don't know, maybe there's some cripple.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Oh, they genuinely don't know. What are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (54:28):
All kinds of crazy shit happens in people's lives, right,
Like you couldn't, especially when you're talking about population surveys
where they sample like fifteen hundred people. All kinds of
crazy shit is happening in that sample of people's lives.
And so like some people be probably get some weird
stuff going on that. You know, maybe they inherited a

(54:51):
storage locker which may or may not contain a toaster oven,
and so they don't know whether what is in there. Uh,
maybe they just don't feel like answering the question. But
it is important to include that when you're when you're
designing the survey as the researcher, it's important to include
that kind of option because otherwise, if you force those
people to respond one of the other ways, uh, you're

(55:13):
just kind of like gunking it up. If they truly
don't know or like can't give a straight answer for
whatever reason.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
Well, don't gunk up your surveys. People Words to live
by Mike, Thank you for being here. Where can folks
keep in touch with our podcast?

Speaker 2 (55:28):
You can leave comments right on Spotify. Maybe comment about
what you think about their new policy about ice right
there in the comments on Spotify, or what you think
about our comments on the topic. You can write anything
you want in the Spotify comments. You can also.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Email read them all.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
She does uh. You can email us at Hello at
tangote dot com. We're gonna do that mail bag episode
pretty soon. The official window has closed, but if you
email us something really good we can You can probably
works about sneak it in. You can follow Bridget on
TikTok and Instagram at Bridget Marie in DC, and you

(56:08):
can follow the show on YouTube at There Are No
Girls on the Internet and we look forward to interacting.
We did there.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
Thanks so much for being here, Mike, Thanks to all
of you for listening, and I will see you on
the Internet. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech,
or just want to say hi. You can reach us
at Hello at tangody dot com. You can also find
transcripts for today's episode at tenggody dot com. There Are

(56:38):
No Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd.
It's a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed creative Jonathan Strickland
as our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and
sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host,
Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate
and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
check out the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcaste you get your

(57:00):
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