July 18, 2025 • 33 mins
The Epstein story won’t die and in MAGA circles, it’s becoming a problem. This episode breaks down why the conspiracy has such staying power, who’s running with it now, and what it reveals about the fractures inside the far right.
Jeffrery Epstein, MIT and the Grad Student Who Spoke Up: https://omny.fm/shows/there-are-no-girls-on-the-internet/jeffrery-epstein-mit-and-the-grad-student-who-spok
Remember Trump’s Influencers on the Epstein Files? They’re Pissed: https://www.yahoo.com/news/remember-trump-binder-influencers-epstein-203415282.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALE2eGyVYVuUQ7Iw3XlXK-4gRnbqSdJzXZ25_u0zYLgHcdvssTEXHrj7bNMZM_tlZtpkHkqfKXtoYpqHRsbODfjex4rE0acMyK2n76_-apXRlkREXs1EVL_Dtuxy_HLmIzt0xg-1YLaphFhSffgLJNE-ckWGgjWYy6Dk9NtkGR6c
The FBI's Jeffrey Epstein Prison Video Had Nearly 3 Minutes Cut Out: https://www.wired.com/story/the-fbis-jeffrey-epstein-prison-video-had-nearly-3-minutes-cut-out/
These are the most significant allegations in Jeffrey Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre's unsealed memoir: https://www.businessinsider.com/inside-jeffrey-epstein-accuser-virginia-roberts-unsealed-memoir-2019-8
I was abused by Jeffrey Epstein. Why is Trump silencing me?: https://www.thetimes.com/us/news-today/article/trump-jeffrey-epstein-victims-speak-out-silencing-l7ql9jn2b
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Just a quick heads up. Today's episode mentions sex crimes
against miners. There Are No Girls on the Internet, as
a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm bridgetad and
this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. We've
(00:22):
talked a lot about online conspiracy theories on the podcast,
but it's been a little while since we've talked about
Qanani stuff, and with Jeffrey Ebstein back in the news,
I think it's time to dip back in a little
bit because I honestly don't know if I believe what
a lot of folks are saying that this and by
this I mean Jeffrey Epstein might be the thing that
finally shakes up Trump Mago world. More on that in
(00:44):
a moment, But I do think it is a very
interesting example of what happens when somebody who makes their
entire thing about feeding conspiracy theories and builds up a
loyal following and doing so tries to put that toothpaste
back in the tube. Will it work? We will see.
So here's what's going on for folks who don't know. First,
I'll start with a kind of quick and dirty crash
(01:05):
course on who Epstein was with a few diversions how
we got here, and then I'll get into what I
think it all means. So first, who is Jeffrey Epstein.
Jeffrey Epstein was a wealthy financier who really threw his
money all over the place. It's not totally clear how
(01:25):
he got his money and how much money he actually had.
Some people call him a billionaire. I've heard that disputed.
His background is kind of unbelievable. His first job was
as a teacher at a high school, despite that having
any formal teaching credentials or formal teaching education, if you
can believe that, And of course, while teaching, he had
a reputation for inappropriate behavior with his students. He was
(01:47):
first convicted of sex crimes against minors in two thousand
and eight and got off with a very lenient sentence
only about thirteen months with work release. After serving his
unbelievably short sentence, Epstein cantinued to amass money, power, and
influence until he was arrested again in twenty nineteen. Epstein
died in jail in twenty nineteen while awaiting trial on
(02:08):
federal sex trafficking charges. The New York City Medical Examiner
ruled his death of suicide, but conspiracy theories claiming that
Epstein didn't kill himself began to spread almost immediately in
the aftermath of his death. The idea here is that
Epstein did not actually die of suicide like we were told,
but instead was taken out to avoid more details that
might incriminate powerful people. And it's one of those theories
(02:31):
that kind of works regardless of what side of the
ail you're on, because Epstein had deep ties with both
political parties. The thing about Epstein is that part of
his moo really was ingratiating himself in lots of influential
spaces with wealthy, powerful people. He gave donations to a
lot of influential spaces. We did an episode that I'll
link to in the show notes about the contributions that
(02:51):
he made to MIT's Media Lab and the Kenyan first
year MIT grad student who called this out and called
for the head of the Media Lab to resign once
his connections to Jeffrey Epstein were revealed. So it's one
of those things where a lot of powerful, rich and
or famous people on all sides of the aisle had
deep connections with Epstein at one time or another, and
that is exactly the way that Epstein designed it. Now, obviously,
(03:14):
just because somebody was connected to Epstein does not mean
they did anything legal. Rich and famous people know other
rich and famous people. So once Epstein was in some
of those circles, I think a lot of people probably
did just casually know them because they were all rich
and powerful, not necessarily because they were all doing crimes together.
Just to give you a sense of the diversity of
(03:35):
people who were connected to Epstein's world, allow me two
quick diversions. One is that I just finished the fantastic
memoir called What Remains by Carol Radswell, formerly of the
Real Housewives of New York City, and once I finished
the book, I flipped the book around the back cover
to see her author photo and was shocked to see
the photo credit because that photo was taken by none
(03:57):
other than Gallaine Maxwell, who is currently incarcerated in connection
with helping traffic women and girls for Epstein. The second version,
if you'll allow me, is Epstein's connection to the creator
of one of my favorite television shows, The Simpsons, Matt Groening,
(04:17):
one of the last accusers of Epstein to be public
and not use a pseudonym like Jane Doe was Virginia
and Gouffrey, who died by apparent suicide. This April, who
in court described being sexually abused by Epstein, She gave
a detailed description of a foot massage that she said
that she was asked to give Matt Groening when she
was sixteen years old on a private flight in California.
(04:40):
This specific claim was made in an unpublished manuscript that
she wrote called The Billionaire's Playboy Club, where she described
how she was talking to Matt Groening on a flight,
telling him how much she loved The Simpsons when Epstein
suggested that she give mac Groning a foot massage, and
she agrees. He takes off his shoes and his feet
are so horrible that she's like, I can't do this,
(05:01):
and she takes out a rag and washes them first
because that's how bad they are. And as a show
of thanks, Matt Groening gets her a little drawing of
her two favorite Simpsons characters, Homer and Bart as a
thank you. Disgusting, so I wanted to share that to
illustrate the diversity of famous, powerful and wealthy people who
(05:21):
have a connection to Epstein and that is by design.
He did this as a way of protecting himself and
shielding himself from accountability for his many crimes. Kind of
like we talked about in that episode that we did
about Diddy really getting in tight with a lot of
different powerful people across a lot of different industries and sectors,
and of course throwing around tons of money, because how
could a man who spends so much of his own
(05:43):
money supporting charitable causes also be a serial abuser and
trafficker right, Also very similar to Sean p. Didty Comb's,
Epstein was known for having hidden cameras all around his
property as part of a compronaut strategy where he would
get evidence of these powerful people doing things they should
be doing and then use that to extort or blackmail
them later. And he apparently extorted people like Bill Gates,
(06:07):
who was friendly with Epstein and eventually Epstein tried to
extort him. According to The Wall Street Journal, before his
arrest and death, Epstein extorted Bill Gates by threatening to
release information about an extramarital affair that Gates had while
he was married. Now. Gates is divorced now and has
admitted that he had affairs while he was married. This
is from The Guardian. Epstein found out about the Microsoft's
(06:28):
co founder's affair was a Russian bridge player, Mila Andtonova,
and he threatened Gates into reimbursing him for tuition costs
that Epstein had initially covered for Antonova to attend software
coding school. Epstein's threat to Gates came in the form
of an email he sent in twenty seventeen after he
failed to convince Gates to join a multi billion dollar
charity fund he attempted to set up. I looked into
(06:50):
this story and it's kind of a very weird situation. Basically,
this twenty year old Russian bridge enthusiast Antonova wanted half
a million dar to start a business that would teach
people to play bridge online. Epstein was like, oh, I
bet Gates will give you the money, so connected her
with Bill Gates. Bill Gates declined to give her the money,
(07:10):
but it sounds like they did start some kind of
a relationship while Gates was married. Then Epstein paid for
her to stay in an apartment and go to coding school.
At the same time, Epstein was trying to start up
this charitable fund with the bank JP Morgan, and this
was meant to be a way for Epstein to kind
of rebuild his reputation in polite society after he had
(07:30):
to register as a sex offender because of his two
thousand and eight conviction for sex crimes against miners. But
starting up this fund really relied on Epstein getting big
money from Bill Gates. So Epstein was kind of scamming.
He was communicating with JP Morgan as if he was
Bill Gates's financial advisor, but in reality he wasn't. When
this scam all blew up in Jeffrey Epstein's face, it
(07:53):
sounded like Epstein thought, well, at least Bill Gates should
be reimbursing me for this woman's coding school because he
ended up having an affair with her. So in twenty seventeen,
Epstein emailed Gates about Antonova after Gates's affair with her ended.
In the email, Epstein demanded Gates reimburse him for her
coding school costs. The tone of the message was that
Epstein knew about the affair and could expose it. The
(08:16):
Wall Street Journal reported Bill Gates' ex wife, Melinda has
given interviews to the effect that Bill Gates's relationship with
Jeffrey Epstein was a contributing factor to their marriage falling apart.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
You know, it was also widely reported that Bill had
a friendship or business or some kind of contact with
Jeffrey Epstein, and that you were not that That was
very upsetting to you. Did that play a role in
the divorce at all in this process?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, As I said, it's not one thing. It was
many things. But I did not like that he'd had
meetings with Jeffrey Epstein. Now, and you made that clear
to him. I made that clear to him. I also
met Jeffrey Epstein. It is exactly one time, did you, Yes,
because I wanted to see who this man was, and
(09:04):
I regretted it from the second I stepped in the door.
He was abhorrent. He was evil personified. I had nightmares
about it afterwards. So, you know, my heart breaks for
these young women because that's how I felt. And here
I'm an older woman. My god, I feel terrible for
those young women's awful.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
You felt that at the moment you walked in.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, and you shared that with Bill, and he still
continued to spend.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Time with him.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Any of the questions remaining about what Bill's relationship there was.
Those are for Bill to answer, okay, but I made
it very clear how I felt about him.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So Epstein was all mixed up with all kinds of wealthy,
powerful people in tech and politics, and notably had connections
with both Democrats and Republicans. In twenty twenty four, a
federal court in Manhattan unsealed the court documents associated from
a twenty fifteen civil lawsuit and revealed the names of
numerous individuals described in the suit as associates, affiliates, or
(10:00):
victims of Jeffrey Epstein. Those names include people like President
Bill Clinton and President Donald Trump, magician David Copperfield, Prince
Andrew which like no surprise there, the former Israeli Prime Minister,
actor Kevin Spacey, lawyer Alan Dershowitz. Dershwitz was a member
of the legal defense team for the criminal case against
Epstein in two thousand and eight, the late New Mexico
(10:22):
Governor Bill Richardson and former Vice President Al Gore, among others,
and of course, Trump has his own documented connections to Epstein.
Trump was known to have been friendly with Epstein, telling
New York Magazine in two thousand and two, I've known
Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of
fun to be with. It's even said that he likes
beautiful women as much as I do, and many of
(10:42):
them are on the younger side. Now, these statements came
before there were any public allegations of wrongdoing against Epstein.
Epstein and Trump shared events at mar A Lago and
Palm Beach, where they both lived. There is lots of
video and photos of them partying together at Trump's mar
A Lago in nineteen ninety two, twenty seven, and two thousand.
They frequently traveled together. Epstein's private jetlogs list Trump on
(11:06):
multiple flights between Palm Beach and New York in the nineties.
Epstein is on audio describing Trump as quote his closest
friend for ten years. But remember Epstein is somebody who
inflated his connections or representation with wealthy and powerful people.
So who knows in any event, Very conveniently, in twenty nineteen,
after Epstein's arrest, Trump said that he had a falling
(11:27):
out with Epstein a long time ago. So during Trump's campaigns,
he really fanned the flames of the kind of conspiracy
theories adjacent to Epstein. But not necessarily Epstein specifically. This
is all complicated by the fact that Epstein was a real,
convicted child sex criminal, but his whole sada kind of
got lumped in with a mishmash of harm against children
(11:50):
conspiracy theories that are not true, things like QAnon, Pizzagate,
and Save the Children. So the fact that Epstein really
was an abuser of children and really was to powerful
political leaders kind of gets used as a proof point
for a larger umbrella of often anti Semitic, false narratives
about harm being done to children by a cabal of
(12:10):
global elites who control everything. And that is the set
of conspiracy theories that Trump more openly flirted with, even
if he did not often evoke Epstein's specifically, you can
see how this was a useful message for Trump to
have used in his campaigning. Trump and his allies really
harnessed the kind of simmering suspicion of establishment figures and
cast Trump in opposition as this bold outsider and the
(12:33):
only person brave enough to take on the deep state.
Trump pretty openly evoked all of this while campaigning. In
twenty twenty two, he reposted an image of himself wearing
a queue Q for q and on lapel pen overlaid
with the words the storm is coming in q Andon war.
The storm refers to what people think will be Trump's
final victory, when there will be mass arrests and maybe
(12:55):
even mass executions of Democrat sex criminals in the street.
Trump was asked about QAnon directly in an interview. Now,
he could have dismissed this as a baseless conspiracy theory,
but instead he praised the movement as people that love
our country. He basically was like, oh, QAnon says that
(13:15):
I'm against pedophiles, I'm an enemy the pedophiles. If that's
a good thing, I'll take it. And he more or
less reinforced their belief that he was exposing a satanic
pedophile ring. So he saw Trump really lean into this
idea too, posting images referring to himself as a martyr
fighting bad guys and criminals and psychopaths and the so
called deep state. Trump didn't often mention QAnon himself, but
(13:38):
he was more than happy to boost people who did.
Media Matters actually did an analysis of how often he
would repost outright obvious explicit QAnon supporters on social media
and that happened a ton. So he gets to signal
to these people, Hey, I see you, I get you,
I'm one of you, wing wink, while keeping this kind
of plausible deniability cover of not having to have said
(14:00):
so directly, which we know by now is a Trump classic.
Let's take a quick break eder back. So the big
(14:22):
point of contention here is what is often called Epstein's
client list, a supposed list of powerful elites that Epstein
and Glaine Maxwell might have trafficked women and girls to
slash with. I should add that Gawker Rest in Peace
published Epstein's address book maybe ten years ago, and New
York Magazine published an annotated version back in twenty nineteen.
(14:42):
Business Insider released a searchable version the next year, along
with flight logs from Epstein's private plane, which were released
in twenty fifteen. So Trump himself has spoken directly about
this client list since he got back into office, telling
supporters that he does intend to look into Epstein's client list.
He talked about it on his appearance on Lex Friedman's podcast.
I was gonna put the audio here, but honestly, yanna
(15:05):
want to hear Trump's voice? Yanna want to hear Lex
Friedman's voice, and frankly, neither do I. But the exchange
went like this. Freedman says, it's just very strange for
a lot of people that that list of clients that
went to the island has not been made public, and
Trump responds, it's very interesting, isn't it. It probably will
be by the way. Friedman responds, if you're able, you'll
(15:27):
be and then Trump Interjackson says, yeah, I'd certainly take
a look at it now. Kennedy's interesting because it's so
many years ago. They do that for danger, because it
endangers certain people, etc. Etc. So Kennedy is very different
from the Epstein thing. But I'd be inclined to do
the Epstein. I'd have no problem with it. But you'll
recall that back during Elon Musk and Donald Trump's a
(15:49):
big breakup earlier this summer, must claimed that Trump will
never release the Epstein client list because dunk dun Dunn
Trump is on the Epstein client list. So this is
a big issue because I simply cannot express to you
how much some of his deepest supporters truly did expect
mass arrests of Democrats and hundreds of Democratic lawmakers being
(16:12):
purfed walked through the streets in connection with sex crimes
against children and Epstein, and Trump kind of low key
hyped them up for this too, even if he never
came out and said it directly. Trump further leaned into
that whole conspiracy theory mindset when he appointed to senior
positions folks who have similarly used these same kind of
conspiracy theories to make broad accusations of corruption and abuse,
(16:36):
most notably FBI Director Cash Pattel and FBI Deputy Director
Dan Bongino. Before they joined the government. Both Patel and
Bongino spent years on podcasts after podcasts and TV appearance
after TV appearance kind of winking at QAnon on Epstein's
conspiracy theories and demanding the files released, even going so
(16:57):
far as to suggest the Biden administration was intentionally holding
the Epstein client list to protect its own. So these
picks to the FBI were men who are deep, deep
in conspiracy world. When they came on board, I think
it gave Trump supporters this sense that like, yes, the
people in charge of the FBI, they are one of us.
All of these theories are going to be taken seriously,
(17:18):
and all of these theories are going to be acted
upon because Pattel and Bongino believe them too, and they
are now in charge. So now the White House knows
they've got these people frothing at the mouth. And back
in February they were like, let's throw a little bit
of red meat, shelby, which brings us to the binder stunt.
In a presentation at the White House on February twenty seven,
(17:39):
twenty twenty five, Attorney General Pam Bondi personally handed out
these like big white, oversized binders labeled the Epstein Files
colon Phase one to about fifteen right wing influencers inside
the West Wing. If you have not seen an image
or a video of this event, I really do in
(18:00):
you to take a look. I'll put the link down
on the show notes, because I don't think I've ever
seen an event that was more clearly a photo op stunt.
The binders are massive, and the type face on the
front of the binders that say the Epstein Files Phase one,
it's so big that it could be seen from practically
across the tree that I could see it in my
(18:21):
apartment in Columbia Heights, fucking miles away from the White house, right,
and so they're photographed like holding these big binders that
say Epstein Files Phase one above their heads and even
calling them Epstein Files Phase one kind of gave the
impression that this was just the beginning. There was going
to be more Epstein information being released to the public
(18:41):
to come. The event, which Trump, Bondie, FBI director Cash Hotel,
and JD Vance all attended, was meant to showcase these
newly declassified documents. But then these influencers get home, open
the binders and realize that all that's in them is
previously public information like public flight logs, publicly available redacted
(19:02):
contact lists, and old evidence lists that were already public.
The big thing was a letdown for them, and it
was obviously just as stunt and mind you, these are
maga people. They were like scamming their own people like
these were the worst of the worst, people like Chaia
Raychick of Libs of TikTok. So when they get home
and find out that these binders have nothing in them
and they've basically been scammed, it prompted instant criticism of
(19:26):
Pambondi and the DOJ. Jack Basobek reportedly left the event
early and later posted they flew us to DC for this.
This is pr not justice. Chaia Rachick of Libs of
TikTok posted on telegram we were promised transparency. Instead we
got a whitewashed version of the truth. DC Draino publicly
called for ag Pam Bondi's resignation and accused her of
(19:50):
quote running cover for elite pedophiles. What's kind of funny
is that Pam Bondi essentially blamed this whole thing on
cash Patel. Bondi released a letter to Bretel accusing the
FBI of inner appropriately withholding thousands of pages of files
related to Epstein from the DOJ and demanded the FBI
turnover the material by eight am the following day, but
no additional information ever came. Bondie said in a response
(20:13):
to a question from a Fox News host about Epstein's
client list that the client list is quote sitting on
my desk right now to review. So get out those
handcuffs and get ready for those purp walks, because there's
about to be a mass wave of arrests. Right This
is going to invigorate the magabas right Well, no, because
now they're saying, actually are bad. There is no Epstein
(20:34):
client list. They announced this on fourth of July holiday weekend,
which is a classic time to drop information you kind
of don't want people to see because everybody's on vacation.
In a memo, they said that after a systematic review
of the Epstein files, the Justice Department officials revealed no
incriminating client list, nor did they find evidence that Epstein
had blackmailed any powerful figures. And the memo reaffirmed that
(20:57):
Epstein died by suicide in his Brooklyn jail set while
awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges in twenty nineteen. So
Bonnie basically said, there is no client list, Epstein died
of suicide. Nothing to see here. The administration also released
what they called raw video of surveillance footage of Epstein's
death by suicide. However, Wired recently reported that newly uncovered
(21:19):
metadata reveals that nearly three minutes of footage were cut
out from what the FBI and the DOJ described as
full raw surveillance video from the only functioning camera near
Jeffrey Epstein's prison cell the night before he was found dead.
The Trump administration said that releasing this full this quote
full raw surveillance video was part of their commitment to
(21:41):
fully investigate his death. But given them almost three minutes
of that footage was not released, it only raised new
questions about how that footage was edited and assembled. Now
Wired had previously reported that that video had been stitched
together in Adobe Premiere Pro from two different video files,
contradicting the Justice to It's claimed that it was quote
(22:01):
raw footage, and now further analysis shows that one of
the source clips was approximately two minutes and fifty three
seconds longer than the segment included in the final video,
suggesting that that footage appears to have been trimmed before release.
But to be super clear, it is unclear what, if
anything at all the minutes cut from that first clip showed.
Attorney General Pambondi has attributed it to a nightly system reset.
(22:24):
So as you can imagine just even just hearing that,
as you can imagine being told like, oh, that missing
footage just a normal glitch in the system that happens
every night. None of this went down super well for
Trump's Cubanon true believers, because remember, these are people there
are Trump's own supporters who have made their entire personality
(22:46):
this stuff their entire personalities and identities in some cases
are about getting justice for kids. Some of these people
have alienated their entire families and lost lots of money
because of this pursuit. And they were told by Trump
that they could would not trust elected officials because all
of the elected officials are implicated in this and lying.
And now those same people are just saying trust us,
(23:08):
and his supporters are not having it. Here's some of
what they had to say. Right wing commentator Benny Johnson,
this is the worst response I've ever seen from President Trump.
Disgraced former General Michael Flynn, considered a hero at the
Cubanon movement, said Donald Trump, please understand the all caps
Epstein affair is not going away. Matt. Right wing commentator
(23:31):
Matt Walsh called Trump's statement extremely ob to, saying we
don't accept obvious bullshit from our political leaders. Wara Lumer,
the far right conspiracy theorist and pundit and influential Trump advisor,
accused Pam Bondy of lying and called for her to
be fired, and former Fox News host Cucker Carlson accused
Bondie of covering up crimes very serious crime. For their
(23:53):
own description, it seems like a lot of the heat
and ire has really been aimed at Pam Bondi, even
though it's pretty clear that she is acting on behalf
of Trump. Trump defended her, saying, Attorney General Pam Bondi,
who was doing a fantastic job all caps, we're on
one team, Maga, and I don't like what's happening. We
have a all capped, perfect administration, all caps talk of
(24:15):
the world, and weirdly in quotes, for some reason, selfish
people are trying to hurt it all over a guy
who never dies, Jeffrey Epstein. For years, it's Epstein over
and over again. Why are we giving publicity to files
written by Obama, Crooked Hillary, Comy Brennan, and the losers
and criminals of the Biden administration, even though side note
(24:37):
the theoj files were largely written in twenty nineteen when
Trump was president. But okay, more after a quick break,
let's get right back into it. So do you know
(25:00):
that phrase hoisted by his own petard, the idea of
becoming ensnared in the very trap that you were setting
for someone else. I think that is kind of what's
going on here, because Trump has been exploiting all of
these conspiracy theories for years and using them to sow
distrust in government officials. Russell Murehead, a professor at Dartmouth College,
was written on the online intersection of Conspiracy Theories and Politics,
(25:23):
puts it this way. Nobody exploited these questions more than
Donald Trump. And he did that because, as always he
wanted to paint government officials as liars, as self serving,
as people who just deserve to be fired. Well, now
the government officials are people he appointed, and now he's
saying there's nothing to see here. And Trump really leaned
in hard to those Epstein rumors when it suited him,
(25:44):
even so far as retweeting a post in twenty nineteen
that alleged that Bill Clinton was somehow connected to Epstein's death.
And now he is just trying to abandon all that.
Tell everybody stop doing that, stop asking me these questions,
and have us all go along with that, even after
he was the one who kicked up all this dirt
and dust around it. And I think the fact that
some of his supporters are so caught up and this
(26:06):
really shows how much Epstein and QAnon and conspiracy theories
in general have become intertwined with today's Republican party, like
these are not fringe attitudes or beliefs. Marjorie Taylor Green
is an open QAnon supporter, and she's not just some
kook posting on our random message board. She's in Congress
with the president's endorsement. And in many cases, I really
(26:28):
think that conspiracy theories like this are the glue that
holds everything together. So now that they're saying, oh no,
this conspiracy theory, it's not real, it doesn't exist, get
over it, what will be the glue that holds this
whole thing together in its absence? And I think that's
one of the reasons we're not seeing this go away
as quickly as Trump, which is that it would because
Trump is now finding out just how powerful and what
(26:50):
a grip conspiracy theories can have on people. You know,
Live by the sword, Die by the sword. Trump completely
melted down about this on his truth social account, basically
saying that he can't believe that anybody who wants to
talk about Epstein a hoax by Biden. Here's a bit
of what he had to say. What's going on with
my quote, boys, and in some cases gels, They're all
(27:12):
going after Attorney General Pam Bondi, who was doing an
all caps fantastic job Ellipses for some reason. Let's keep
it that way and not waste any capital T time
and capital E energy on Jeffrey Epstein, somebody that no
one cares about. Their new all caps scam is what
we will forever call the Jeffrey Epstein hoax. And my
(27:33):
past supporters have bought into this bullshit, hook line and sinker.
Let these weaklings continue forward and do the Democrats work.
Don't even think about talking about our incredible and unprecedented
success because I don't even want their support anymore, which
I have to say fucking all time truth social posts
(27:54):
from Trump, and that is really saying something. And him
basically coming out and saying that if you are still
asking questions about Epstein, I don't even want your support,
I think is really something. Now. People have been saying
a lot that they think that this is going to
be the thing that pulls MAGO rolled apart. Can you
(28:15):
believe it, Jeffrey Epstein? And you might be thinking if
I think that as well? Do I think this is
going to have a lasting impact in MAGO world? Considering
that Trump has been telling his supporters that he wants
in the shop about it, and they have not shut
up about it. Honestly, I really don't think so. I
don't know if this is just my own cynicism and
sort of resigned status to what's happening. But I think
(28:38):
that a lot of these people have built up so
much of their identities and their personalities around this, Like
where else would they go? Who else would enable that?
Where would all that energy go. One of my favorite
journalists who focuses on conspiracy for NBC, Brandy's ARDRONI put
it very well on a Blue Sky. She writes, We're
about to find out if get over it from a
trusted leader can pull people away from a conspiracy theory.
(29:00):
I'm skeptical, but you never know. Not really sums up
how I feel about it too, And maybe we will
never know. Because House Republicans just voted down another democratic
procedural maneuver aimed at forcing the DOJ to release documents
related to Epstein. Republicans in the House voted against attaching
a Democratic amendment to another piece of legislation that would
(29:21):
have forced the DOJ to release the Epstein files. This
would have, had it gone through it would have forced
Pam Bondi to publish all documents related to Epstein within
thirty days. So Trump officials were trying really hard to
put this whole thing to bed. But it has not
been put to bed at all, because the Wall Street
Journal released a report that Trump may have sent Epstein
(29:41):
kind of a gross crewed birthday card for his fiftieth
birthday back in two thousand and three, with a hand
drawn picture of some boobs and it ends with the
words a pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday, and
may every day be another wonderful secret. Trump says he
never wrote it, doesn't draw pictures, doesn't talk like that,
and filed a suit against the Wall Street Journal, News Corps,
(30:04):
Rupert Murdoch, and the two journalists responsible for the article.
And on Thursday night, Trump suddenly reversed course and instructed
Pambondi to release pertinent files on the criminal investigation into Epstein,
subject to court approval, and on Friday, Bondi filed emotion
in New York to release grand jury transcripts associated with
the Epstein case. Now, keep in mind that the Department
(30:26):
of Justice and the FBI still retain the bulk of
what those who are calling for transparency are really wanting
to see, and it's not even clear what, if anything,
would be potentially released in that Meanwhile, Senate Democrats sent
a letter to Bondi asking why exactly it took an
additional three months to release a summary of the findings
related to Epstein, and importantly why agents were instructed to
(30:49):
flag any mention of Trump and whatever they found curious. Right,
this is obviously a developing story, and no doubt there
will be more twists and turns as it continues. And
I think it's really important to note that amidst all
this noise and all this chaos are actual voices of
actual victims and survivors, and it is incredibly important to
(31:10):
me that those voices do not go unheard. Daniel Benski,
who was abused by Epstein when she was a teenager
in two thousand and four, said that the decision to
close this case left her feeling like she was on
a first class flight on our refurbished Lolita Express, which
was the nickname for Epstein's private jet. Her story is
deeply heartbreaking. Her mom had a brain tumor when she
(31:31):
was a teenager, and an aspiring ballerina, and once she
got mixed up with Epstein. Epstein told her that he
knew the best surgeons in New York City, but that
if she wanted Epstein to help her mother, who was
dying of cancer, she would have to recruit other girls
for him, her lawyers alleged in a lawsuit. She told
The Times, it feels like the current cabinet is essentially
(31:53):
erasing our voices after years of bravery and work to
find our way out of silence. It's actually worse than silencing.
It's be writing a narrative as if none of us
existed in the first place. What does this teach our
children that if you are wealthy and powerful enough, you
can make anything disappear, or play the blame game and
create conspiracy theories. And I think it's a good reminder
(32:13):
that that truly is who matters here, and that truly
is who we are failing the actual victims and survivors
who went through something horrible and might not ever get
a sense of closure or justice, and they deserve both.
Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or
just want to say hi, You can reach us at
(32:35):
Hello at tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts
for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No
Girls on the Internet was created by me bridget Toad.
It's a production of iHeartRadio, an unbossed creative Jonathan Strickland
as our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and
sound engineer. Michael Almado is our contributing producer. I'm your host,
bridget Toad. If you want to help us grow, rate
(32:55):
and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
check on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Just a quick heads up. Today's episode mentions sex crimes
against miners. There Are No Girls on the Internet, as
a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm bridgetad and
this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. We've
(00:22):
talked a lot about online conspiracy theories on the podcast,
but it's been a little while since we've talked about
Qanani stuff, and with Jeffrey Ebstein back in the news,
I think it's time to dip back in a little
bit because I honestly don't know if I believe what
a lot of folks are saying that this and by
this I mean Jeffrey Epstein might be the thing that
finally shakes up Trump Mago world. More on that in
(00:44):
a moment, But I do think it is a very
interesting example of what happens when somebody who makes their
entire thing about feeding conspiracy theories and builds up a
loyal following and doing so tries to put that toothpaste
back in the tube. Will it work? We will see.
So here's what's going on for folks who don't know. First,
I'll start with a kind of quick and dirty crash
(01:05):
course on who Epstein was with a few diversions how
we got here, and then I'll get into what I
think it all means. So first, who is Jeffrey Epstein.
Jeffrey Epstein was a wealthy financier who really threw his
money all over the place. It's not totally clear how
(01:25):
he got his money and how much money he actually had.
Some people call him a billionaire. I've heard that disputed.
His background is kind of unbelievable. His first job was
as a teacher at a high school, despite that having
any formal teaching credentials or formal teaching education, if you
can believe that, And of course, while teaching, he had
a reputation for inappropriate behavior with his students. He was
(01:47):
first convicted of sex crimes against minors in two thousand
and eight and got off with a very lenient sentence
only about thirteen months with work release. After serving his
unbelievably short sentence, Epstein cantinued to amass money, power, and
influence until he was arrested again in twenty nineteen. Epstein
died in jail in twenty nineteen while awaiting trial on
(02:08):
federal sex trafficking charges. The New York City Medical Examiner
ruled his death of suicide, but conspiracy theories claiming that
Epstein didn't kill himself began to spread almost immediately in
the aftermath of his death. The idea here is that
Epstein did not actually die of suicide like we were told,
but instead was taken out to avoid more details that
might incriminate powerful people. And it's one of those theories
(02:31):
that kind of works regardless of what side of the
ail you're on, because Epstein had deep ties with both
political parties. The thing about Epstein is that part of
his moo really was ingratiating himself in lots of influential
spaces with wealthy, powerful people. He gave donations to a
lot of influential spaces. We did an episode that I'll
link to in the show notes about the contributions that
(02:51):
he made to MIT's Media Lab and the Kenyan first
year MIT grad student who called this out and called
for the head of the Media Lab to resign once
his connections to Jeffrey Epstein were revealed. So it's one
of those things where a lot of powerful, rich and
or famous people on all sides of the aisle had
deep connections with Epstein at one time or another, and
that is exactly the way that Epstein designed it. Now, obviously,
(03:14):
just because somebody was connected to Epstein does not mean
they did anything legal. Rich and famous people know other
rich and famous people. So once Epstein was in some
of those circles, I think a lot of people probably
did just casually know them because they were all rich
and powerful, not necessarily because they were all doing crimes together.
Just to give you a sense of the diversity of
(03:35):
people who were connected to Epstein's world, allow me two
quick diversions. One is that I just finished the fantastic
memoir called What Remains by Carol Radswell, formerly of the
Real Housewives of New York City, and once I finished
the book, I flipped the book around the back cover
to see her author photo and was shocked to see
the photo credit because that photo was taken by none
(03:57):
other than Gallaine Maxwell, who is currently incarcerated in connection
with helping traffic women and girls for Epstein. The second version,
if you'll allow me, is Epstein's connection to the creator
of one of my favorite television shows, The Simpsons, Matt Groening,
(04:17):
one of the last accusers of Epstein to be public
and not use a pseudonym like Jane Doe was Virginia
and Gouffrey, who died by apparent suicide. This April, who
in court described being sexually abused by Epstein, She gave
a detailed description of a foot massage that she said
that she was asked to give Matt Groening when she
was sixteen years old on a private flight in California.
(04:40):
This specific claim was made in an unpublished manuscript that
she wrote called The Billionaire's Playboy Club, where she described
how she was talking to Matt Groening on a flight,
telling him how much she loved The Simpsons when Epstein
suggested that she give mac Groning a foot massage, and
she agrees. He takes off his shoes and his feet
are so horrible that she's like, I can't do this,
(05:01):
and she takes out a rag and washes them first
because that's how bad they are. And as a show
of thanks, Matt Groening gets her a little drawing of
her two favorite Simpsons characters, Homer and Bart as a
thank you. Disgusting, so I wanted to share that to
illustrate the diversity of famous, powerful and wealthy people who
(05:21):
have a connection to Epstein and that is by design.
He did this as a way of protecting himself and
shielding himself from accountability for his many crimes. Kind of
like we talked about in that episode that we did
about Diddy really getting in tight with a lot of
different powerful people across a lot of different industries and sectors,
and of course throwing around tons of money, because how
could a man who spends so much of his own
(05:43):
money supporting charitable causes also be a serial abuser and
trafficker right, Also very similar to Sean p. Didty Comb's,
Epstein was known for having hidden cameras all around his
property as part of a compronaut strategy where he would
get evidence of these powerful people doing things they should
be doing and then use that to extort or blackmail
them later. And he apparently extorted people like Bill Gates,
(06:07):
who was friendly with Epstein and eventually Epstein tried to
extort him. According to The Wall Street Journal, before his
arrest and death, Epstein extorted Bill Gates by threatening to
release information about an extramarital affair that Gates had while
he was married. Now. Gates is divorced now and has
admitted that he had affairs while he was married. This
is from The Guardian. Epstein found out about the Microsoft's
(06:28):
co founder's affair was a Russian bridge player, Mila Andtonova,
and he threatened Gates into reimbursing him for tuition costs
that Epstein had initially covered for Antonova to attend software
coding school. Epstein's threat to Gates came in the form
of an email he sent in twenty seventeen after he
failed to convince Gates to join a multi billion dollar
charity fund he attempted to set up. I looked into
(06:50):
this story and it's kind of a very weird situation. Basically,
this twenty year old Russian bridge enthusiast Antonova wanted half
a million dar to start a business that would teach
people to play bridge online. Epstein was like, oh, I
bet Gates will give you the money, so connected her
with Bill Gates. Bill Gates declined to give her the money,
(07:10):
but it sounds like they did start some kind of
a relationship while Gates was married. Then Epstein paid for
her to stay in an apartment and go to coding school.
At the same time, Epstein was trying to start up
this charitable fund with the bank JP Morgan, and this
was meant to be a way for Epstein to kind
of rebuild his reputation in polite society after he had
(07:30):
to register as a sex offender because of his two
thousand and eight conviction for sex crimes against miners. But
starting up this fund really relied on Epstein getting big
money from Bill Gates. So Epstein was kind of scamming.
He was communicating with JP Morgan as if he was
Bill Gates's financial advisor, but in reality he wasn't. When
this scam all blew up in Jeffrey Epstein's face, it
(07:53):
sounded like Epstein thought, well, at least Bill Gates should
be reimbursing me for this woman's coding school because he
ended up having an affair with her. So in twenty seventeen,
Epstein emailed Gates about Antonova after Gates's affair with her ended.
In the email, Epstein demanded Gates reimburse him for her
coding school costs. The tone of the message was that
Epstein knew about the affair and could expose it. The
(08:16):
Wall Street Journal reported Bill Gates' ex wife, Melinda has
given interviews to the effect that Bill Gates's relationship with
Jeffrey Epstein was a contributing factor to their marriage falling apart.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
You know, it was also widely reported that Bill had
a friendship or business or some kind of contact with
Jeffrey Epstein, and that you were not that That was
very upsetting to you. Did that play a role in
the divorce at all in this process?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, As I said, it's not one thing. It was
many things. But I did not like that he'd had
meetings with Jeffrey Epstein. Now, and you made that clear
to him. I made that clear to him. I also
met Jeffrey Epstein. It is exactly one time, did you, Yes,
because I wanted to see who this man was, and
(09:04):
I regretted it from the second I stepped in the door.
He was abhorrent. He was evil personified. I had nightmares
about it afterwards. So, you know, my heart breaks for
these young women because that's how I felt. And here
I'm an older woman. My god, I feel terrible for
those young women's awful.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
You felt that at the moment you walked in.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, and you shared that with Bill, and he still
continued to spend.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Time with him.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Any of the questions remaining about what Bill's relationship there was.
Those are for Bill to answer, okay, but I made
it very clear how I felt about him.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So Epstein was all mixed up with all kinds of wealthy,
powerful people in tech and politics, and notably had connections
with both Democrats and Republicans. In twenty twenty four, a
federal court in Manhattan unsealed the court documents associated from
a twenty fifteen civil lawsuit and revealed the names of
numerous individuals described in the suit as associates, affiliates, or
(10:00):
victims of Jeffrey Epstein. Those names include people like President
Bill Clinton and President Donald Trump, magician David Copperfield, Prince
Andrew which like no surprise there, the former Israeli Prime Minister,
actor Kevin Spacey, lawyer Alan Dershowitz. Dershwitz was a member
of the legal defense team for the criminal case against
Epstein in two thousand and eight, the late New Mexico
(10:22):
Governor Bill Richardson and former Vice President Al Gore, among others,
and of course, Trump has his own documented connections to Epstein.
Trump was known to have been friendly with Epstein, telling
New York Magazine in two thousand and two, I've known
Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of
fun to be with. It's even said that he likes
beautiful women as much as I do, and many of
(10:42):
them are on the younger side. Now, these statements came
before there were any public allegations of wrongdoing against Epstein.
Epstein and Trump shared events at mar A Lago and
Palm Beach, where they both lived. There is lots of
video and photos of them partying together at Trump's mar
A Lago in nineteen ninety two, twenty seven, and two thousand.
They frequently traveled together. Epstein's private jetlogs list Trump on
(11:06):
multiple flights between Palm Beach and New York in the nineties.
Epstein is on audio describing Trump as quote his closest
friend for ten years. But remember Epstein is somebody who
inflated his connections or representation with wealthy and powerful people.
So who knows in any event, Very conveniently, in twenty nineteen,
after Epstein's arrest, Trump said that he had a falling
(11:27):
out with Epstein a long time ago. So during Trump's campaigns,
he really fanned the flames of the kind of conspiracy
theories adjacent to Epstein. But not necessarily Epstein specifically. This
is all complicated by the fact that Epstein was a real,
convicted child sex criminal, but his whole sada kind of
got lumped in with a mishmash of harm against children
(11:50):
conspiracy theories that are not true, things like QAnon, Pizzagate,
and Save the Children. So the fact that Epstein really
was an abuser of children and really was to powerful
political leaders kind of gets used as a proof point
for a larger umbrella of often anti Semitic, false narratives
about harm being done to children by a cabal of
(12:10):
global elites who control everything. And that is the set
of conspiracy theories that Trump more openly flirted with, even
if he did not often evoke Epstein's specifically, you can
see how this was a useful message for Trump to
have used in his campaigning. Trump and his allies really
harnessed the kind of simmering suspicion of establishment figures and
cast Trump in opposition as this bold outsider and the
(12:33):
only person brave enough to take on the deep state.
Trump pretty openly evoked all of this while campaigning. In
twenty twenty two, he reposted an image of himself wearing
a queue Q for q and on lapel pen overlaid
with the words the storm is coming in q Andon war.
The storm refers to what people think will be Trump's
final victory, when there will be mass arrests and maybe
(12:55):
even mass executions of Democrat sex criminals in the street.
Trump was asked about QAnon directly in an interview. Now,
he could have dismissed this as a baseless conspiracy theory,
but instead he praised the movement as people that love
our country. He basically was like, oh, QAnon says that
(13:15):
I'm against pedophiles, I'm an enemy the pedophiles. If that's
a good thing, I'll take it. And he more or
less reinforced their belief that he was exposing a satanic
pedophile ring. So he saw Trump really lean into this
idea too, posting images referring to himself as a martyr
fighting bad guys and criminals and psychopaths and the so
called deep state. Trump didn't often mention QAnon himself, but
(13:38):
he was more than happy to boost people who did.
Media Matters actually did an analysis of how often he
would repost outright obvious explicit QAnon supporters on social media
and that happened a ton. So he gets to signal
to these people, Hey, I see you, I get you,
I'm one of you, wing wink, while keeping this kind
of plausible deniability cover of not having to have said
(14:00):
so directly, which we know by now is a Trump classic.
Let's take a quick break eder back. So the big
(14:22):
point of contention here is what is often called Epstein's
client list, a supposed list of powerful elites that Epstein
and Glaine Maxwell might have trafficked women and girls to
slash with. I should add that Gawker Rest in Peace
published Epstein's address book maybe ten years ago, and New
York Magazine published an annotated version back in twenty nineteen.
(14:42):
Business Insider released a searchable version the next year, along
with flight logs from Epstein's private plane, which were released
in twenty fifteen. So Trump himself has spoken directly about
this client list since he got back into office, telling
supporters that he does intend to look into Epstein's client list.
He talked about it on his appearance on Lex Friedman's podcast.
I was gonna put the audio here, but honestly, yanna
(15:05):
want to hear Trump's voice? Yanna want to hear Lex
Friedman's voice, and frankly, neither do I. But the exchange
went like this. Freedman says, it's just very strange for
a lot of people that that list of clients that
went to the island has not been made public, and
Trump responds, it's very interesting, isn't it. It probably will
be by the way. Friedman responds, if you're able, you'll
(15:27):
be and then Trump Interjackson says, yeah, I'd certainly take
a look at it now. Kennedy's interesting because it's so
many years ago. They do that for danger, because it
endangers certain people, etc. Etc. So Kennedy is very different
from the Epstein thing. But I'd be inclined to do
the Epstein. I'd have no problem with it. But you'll
recall that back during Elon Musk and Donald Trump's a
(15:49):
big breakup earlier this summer, must claimed that Trump will
never release the Epstein client list because dunk dun Dunn
Trump is on the Epstein client list. So this is
a big issue because I simply cannot express to you
how much some of his deepest supporters truly did expect
mass arrests of Democrats and hundreds of Democratic lawmakers being
(16:12):
purfed walked through the streets in connection with sex crimes
against children and Epstein, and Trump kind of low key
hyped them up for this too, even if he never
came out and said it directly. Trump further leaned into
that whole conspiracy theory mindset when he appointed to senior
positions folks who have similarly used these same kind of
conspiracy theories to make broad accusations of corruption and abuse,
(16:36):
most notably FBI Director Cash Pattel and FBI Deputy Director
Dan Bongino. Before they joined the government. Both Patel and
Bongino spent years on podcasts after podcasts and TV appearance
after TV appearance kind of winking at QAnon on Epstein's
conspiracy theories and demanding the files released, even going so
(16:57):
far as to suggest the Biden administration was intentionally holding
the Epstein client list to protect its own. So these
picks to the FBI were men who are deep, deep
in conspiracy world. When they came on board, I think
it gave Trump supporters this sense that like, yes, the
people in charge of the FBI, they are one of us.
All of these theories are going to be taken seriously,
(17:18):
and all of these theories are going to be acted
upon because Pattel and Bongino believe them too, and they
are now in charge. So now the White House knows
they've got these people frothing at the mouth. And back
in February they were like, let's throw a little bit
of red meat, shelby, which brings us to the binder stunt.
In a presentation at the White House on February twenty seven,
(17:39):
twenty twenty five, Attorney General Pam Bondi personally handed out
these like big white, oversized binders labeled the Epstein Files
colon Phase one to about fifteen right wing influencers inside
the West Wing. If you have not seen an image
or a video of this event, I really do in
(18:00):
you to take a look. I'll put the link down
on the show notes, because I don't think I've ever
seen an event that was more clearly a photo op stunt.
The binders are massive, and the type face on the
front of the binders that say the Epstein Files Phase one,
it's so big that it could be seen from practically
across the tree that I could see it in my
(18:21):
apartment in Columbia Heights, fucking miles away from the White house, right,
and so they're photographed like holding these big binders that
say Epstein Files Phase one above their heads and even
calling them Epstein Files Phase one kind of gave the
impression that this was just the beginning. There was going
to be more Epstein information being released to the public
(18:41):
to come. The event, which Trump, Bondie, FBI director Cash Hotel,
and JD Vance all attended, was meant to showcase these
newly declassified documents. But then these influencers get home, open
the binders and realize that all that's in them is
previously public information like public flight logs, publicly available redacted
(19:02):
contact lists, and old evidence lists that were already public.
The big thing was a letdown for them, and it
was obviously just as stunt and mind you, these are
maga people. They were like scamming their own people like
these were the worst of the worst, people like Chaia
Raychick of Libs of TikTok. So when they get home
and find out that these binders have nothing in them
and they've basically been scammed, it prompted instant criticism of
(19:26):
Pambondi and the DOJ. Jack Basobek reportedly left the event
early and later posted they flew us to DC for this.
This is pr not justice. Chaia Rachick of Libs of
TikTok posted on telegram we were promised transparency. Instead we
got a whitewashed version of the truth. DC Draino publicly
called for ag Pam Bondi's resignation and accused her of
(19:50):
quote running cover for elite pedophiles. What's kind of funny
is that Pam Bondi essentially blamed this whole thing on
cash Patel. Bondi released a letter to Bretel accusing the
FBI of inner appropriately withholding thousands of pages of files
related to Epstein from the DOJ and demanded the FBI
turnover the material by eight am the following day, but
no additional information ever came. Bondie said in a response
(20:13):
to a question from a Fox News host about Epstein's
client list that the client list is quote sitting on
my desk right now to review. So get out those
handcuffs and get ready for those purp walks, because there's
about to be a mass wave of arrests. Right This
is going to invigorate the magabas right Well, no, because
now they're saying, actually are bad. There is no Epstein
(20:34):
client list. They announced this on fourth of July holiday weekend,
which is a classic time to drop information you kind
of don't want people to see because everybody's on vacation.
In a memo, they said that after a systematic review
of the Epstein files, the Justice Department officials revealed no
incriminating client list, nor did they find evidence that Epstein
had blackmailed any powerful figures. And the memo reaffirmed that
(20:57):
Epstein died by suicide in his Brooklyn jail set while
awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges in twenty nineteen. So
Bonnie basically said, there is no client list, Epstein died
of suicide. Nothing to see here. The administration also released
what they called raw video of surveillance footage of Epstein's
death by suicide. However, Wired recently reported that newly uncovered
(21:19):
metadata reveals that nearly three minutes of footage were cut
out from what the FBI and the DOJ described as
full raw surveillance video from the only functioning camera near
Jeffrey Epstein's prison cell the night before he was found dead.
The Trump administration said that releasing this full this quote
full raw surveillance video was part of their commitment to
(21:41):
fully investigate his death. But given them almost three minutes
of that footage was not released, it only raised new
questions about how that footage was edited and assembled. Now
Wired had previously reported that that video had been stitched
together in Adobe Premiere Pro from two different video files,
contradicting the Justice to It's claimed that it was quote
(22:01):
raw footage, and now further analysis shows that one of
the source clips was approximately two minutes and fifty three
seconds longer than the segment included in the final video,
suggesting that that footage appears to have been trimmed before release.
But to be super clear, it is unclear what, if
anything at all the minutes cut from that first clip showed.
Attorney General Pambondi has attributed it to a nightly system reset.
(22:24):
So as you can imagine just even just hearing that,
as you can imagine being told like, oh, that missing
footage just a normal glitch in the system that happens
every night. None of this went down super well for
Trump's Cubanon true believers, because remember, these are people there
are Trump's own supporters who have made their entire personality
(22:46):
this stuff their entire personalities and identities in some cases
are about getting justice for kids. Some of these people
have alienated their entire families and lost lots of money
because of this pursuit. And they were told by Trump
that they could would not trust elected officials because all
of the elected officials are implicated in this and lying.
And now those same people are just saying trust us,
(23:08):
and his supporters are not having it. Here's some of
what they had to say. Right wing commentator Benny Johnson,
this is the worst response I've ever seen from President Trump.
Disgraced former General Michael Flynn, considered a hero at the
Cubanon movement, said Donald Trump, please understand the all caps
Epstein affair is not going away. Matt. Right wing commentator
(23:31):
Matt Walsh called Trump's statement extremely ob to, saying we
don't accept obvious bullshit from our political leaders. Wara Lumer,
the far right conspiracy theorist and pundit and influential Trump advisor,
accused Pam Bondy of lying and called for her to
be fired, and former Fox News host Cucker Carlson accused
Bondie of covering up crimes very serious crime. For their
(23:53):
own description, it seems like a lot of the heat
and ire has really been aimed at Pam Bondi, even
though it's pretty clear that she is acting on behalf
of Trump. Trump defended her, saying, Attorney General Pam Bondi,
who was doing a fantastic job all caps, we're on
one team, Maga, and I don't like what's happening. We
have a all capped, perfect administration, all caps talk of
(24:15):
the world, and weirdly in quotes, for some reason, selfish
people are trying to hurt it all over a guy
who never dies, Jeffrey Epstein. For years, it's Epstein over
and over again. Why are we giving publicity to files
written by Obama, Crooked Hillary, Comy Brennan, and the losers
and criminals of the Biden administration, even though side note
(24:37):
the theoj files were largely written in twenty nineteen when
Trump was president. But okay, more after a quick break,
let's get right back into it. So do you know
(25:00):
that phrase hoisted by his own petard, the idea of
becoming ensnared in the very trap that you were setting
for someone else. I think that is kind of what's
going on here, because Trump has been exploiting all of
these conspiracy theories for years and using them to sow
distrust in government officials. Russell Murehead, a professor at Dartmouth College,
was written on the online intersection of Conspiracy Theories and Politics,
(25:23):
puts it this way. Nobody exploited these questions more than
Donald Trump. And he did that because, as always he
wanted to paint government officials as liars, as self serving,
as people who just deserve to be fired. Well, now
the government officials are people he appointed, and now he's
saying there's nothing to see here. And Trump really leaned
in hard to those Epstein rumors when it suited him,
(25:44):
even so far as retweeting a post in twenty nineteen
that alleged that Bill Clinton was somehow connected to Epstein's death.
And now he is just trying to abandon all that.
Tell everybody stop doing that, stop asking me these questions,
and have us all go along with that, even after
he was the one who kicked up all this dirt
and dust around it. And I think the fact that
some of his supporters are so caught up and this
(26:06):
really shows how much Epstein and QAnon and conspiracy theories
in general have become intertwined with today's Republican party, like
these are not fringe attitudes or beliefs. Marjorie Taylor Green
is an open QAnon supporter, and she's not just some
kook posting on our random message board. She's in Congress
with the president's endorsement. And in many cases, I really
(26:28):
think that conspiracy theories like this are the glue that
holds everything together. So now that they're saying, oh no,
this conspiracy theory, it's not real, it doesn't exist, get
over it, what will be the glue that holds this
whole thing together in its absence? And I think that's
one of the reasons we're not seeing this go away
as quickly as Trump, which is that it would because
Trump is now finding out just how powerful and what
(26:50):
a grip conspiracy theories can have on people. You know,
Live by the sword, Die by the sword. Trump completely
melted down about this on his truth social account, basically
saying that he can't believe that anybody who wants to
talk about Epstein a hoax by Biden. Here's a bit
of what he had to say. What's going on with
my quote, boys, and in some cases gels, They're all
(27:12):
going after Attorney General Pam Bondi, who was doing an
all caps fantastic job Ellipses for some reason. Let's keep
it that way and not waste any capital T time
and capital E energy on Jeffrey Epstein, somebody that no
one cares about. Their new all caps scam is what
we will forever call the Jeffrey Epstein hoax. And my
(27:33):
past supporters have bought into this bullshit, hook line and sinker.
Let these weaklings continue forward and do the Democrats work.
Don't even think about talking about our incredible and unprecedented
success because I don't even want their support anymore, which
I have to say fucking all time truth social posts
(27:54):
from Trump, and that is really saying something. And him
basically coming out and saying that if you are still
asking questions about Epstein, I don't even want your support,
I think is really something. Now. People have been saying
a lot that they think that this is going to
be the thing that pulls MAGO rolled apart. Can you
(28:15):
believe it, Jeffrey Epstein? And you might be thinking if
I think that as well? Do I think this is
going to have a lasting impact in MAGO world? Considering
that Trump has been telling his supporters that he wants
in the shop about it, and they have not shut
up about it. Honestly, I really don't think so. I
don't know if this is just my own cynicism and
sort of resigned status to what's happening. But I think
(28:38):
that a lot of these people have built up so
much of their identities and their personalities around this, Like
where else would they go? Who else would enable that?
Where would all that energy go. One of my favorite
journalists who focuses on conspiracy for NBC, Brandy's ARDRONI put
it very well on a Blue Sky. She writes, We're
about to find out if get over it from a
trusted leader can pull people away from a conspiracy theory.
(29:00):
I'm skeptical, but you never know. Not really sums up
how I feel about it too, And maybe we will
never know. Because House Republicans just voted down another democratic
procedural maneuver aimed at forcing the DOJ to release documents
related to Epstein. Republicans in the House voted against attaching
a Democratic amendment to another piece of legislation that would
(29:21):
have forced the DOJ to release the Epstein files. This
would have, had it gone through it would have forced
Pam Bondi to publish all documents related to Epstein within
thirty days. So Trump officials were trying really hard to
put this whole thing to bed. But it has not
been put to bed at all, because the Wall Street
Journal released a report that Trump may have sent Epstein
(29:41):
kind of a gross crewed birthday card for his fiftieth
birthday back in two thousand and three, with a hand
drawn picture of some boobs and it ends with the
words a pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday, and
may every day be another wonderful secret. Trump says he
never wrote it, doesn't draw pictures, doesn't talk like that,
and filed a suit against the Wall Street Journal, News Corps,
(30:04):
Rupert Murdoch, and the two journalists responsible for the article.
And on Thursday night, Trump suddenly reversed course and instructed
Pambondi to release pertinent files on the criminal investigation into Epstein,
subject to court approval, and on Friday, Bondi filed emotion
in New York to release grand jury transcripts associated with
the Epstein case. Now, keep in mind that the Department
(30:26):
of Justice and the FBI still retain the bulk of
what those who are calling for transparency are really wanting
to see, and it's not even clear what, if anything,
would be potentially released in that Meanwhile, Senate Democrats sent
a letter to Bondi asking why exactly it took an
additional three months to release a summary of the findings
related to Epstein, and importantly why agents were instructed to
(30:49):
flag any mention of Trump and whatever they found curious. Right,
this is obviously a developing story, and no doubt there
will be more twists and turns as it continues. And
I think it's really important to note that amidst all
this noise and all this chaos are actual voices of
actual victims and survivors, and it is incredibly important to
(31:10):
me that those voices do not go unheard. Daniel Benski,
who was abused by Epstein when she was a teenager
in two thousand and four, said that the decision to
close this case left her feeling like she was on
a first class flight on our refurbished Lolita Express, which
was the nickname for Epstein's private jet. Her story is
deeply heartbreaking. Her mom had a brain tumor when she
(31:31):
was a teenager, and an aspiring ballerina, and once she
got mixed up with Epstein. Epstein told her that he
knew the best surgeons in New York City, but that
if she wanted Epstein to help her mother, who was
dying of cancer, she would have to recruit other girls
for him, her lawyers alleged in a lawsuit. She told
The Times, it feels like the current cabinet is essentially
(31:53):
erasing our voices after years of bravery and work to
find our way out of silence. It's actually worse than silencing.
It's be writing a narrative as if none of us
existed in the first place. What does this teach our
children that if you are wealthy and powerful enough, you
can make anything disappear, or play the blame game and
create conspiracy theories. And I think it's a good reminder
(32:13):
that that truly is who matters here, and that truly
is who we are failing the actual victims and survivors
who went through something horrible and might not ever get
a sense of closure or justice, and they deserve both.
Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or
just want to say hi, You can reach us at
(32:35):
Hello at tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts
for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No
Girls on the Internet was created by me bridget Toad.
It's a production of iHeartRadio, an unbossed creative Jonathan Strickland
as our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and
sound engineer. Michael Almado is our contributing producer. I'm your host,
bridget Toad. If you want to help us grow, rate
(32:55):
and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
check on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
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