March 25, 2025 • 54 mins
Every mom needs her village, and Ali Krieger is a great example of someone committed to building community, both in sports and in her personal life. As a soccer star, she and her teammates fought for equal pay with U.S. Soccer--a move that helped women's sports as a whole. Off the field, Ali embraced the power of a supportive community after a very public divorce and remains dedicated to nurturing her relationships with mom friends. The Packers share these values and dive deep into Ali’s experiences growing up with a dad who was also her coach. They also discuss what life is like post-retirement and why, after a career as an Olympian and two-time World Cup winner, Ali is still chasing those small mom wins.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm a recently retired pro hockey vet, a founding member
of the National Women's Hockey League, a pillar in the PHF,
and an inaugural member of the PWHL Sirens.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
And I'm Anypacker, also a former pro hockey player, also
founding member of the National Women's Hockey League. But today
I'm a full Madison Packer. Stand.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Anya and I met through hockey, then we got married,
and now we're moms.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
To two awesome toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
And on our new podcast, These Packs Puck, we're opening
up about the chaos of our daily lives, between the
juggle of being athletes, raising children and all the messiness
in between. Hey, Anya, what's a packy?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Where are we at?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Literally? Where are we at? Like physically? Not like that.
Not this isn't the check in.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
We're in Florida. We're in the state that doesn't love us,
the sunshine on anyone but US state. But that's okay,
We're here. We're queer. How you doing.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I am loving being in Florida. This is my second
favorite place, as you know, got a long workout in
this morning, rode my scooter to the grocery store for
some beer, scootered back with the beer.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
That's what you that's where you were. Yeah, and everyone
was so impressed because you were scooting with beer because.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I had like one foot on it. Yeah, it was cool.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I'm glad that that's filling your cup today.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, right to the brim. All right, you ready to
get into it.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I'm always ready to get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Hockey hot take. The hot take today is the ridiculous
rising cost of hockey in what is happening facts, So
let's break it down because it's wild.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
So in December, I believe it was both CCM and
Bauer basically go the route of private equity, which means
the parody the competitive nature between the two behemoths in
hockey apparel, outfitting, gear, et cetera, go for profit. Right,
(02:01):
Like now we're watching the bottom line and we've seen
Bauer repeatedly file for bankruptcy. We've seen, you know, hockey
become a really challenging sport because the cost because of
all the things. But now is really where we're in
our private equity era, and I'm quite literally I'm afraid
for the cost of hockey.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
It's two things, right, it's the cost of ice and
just being on the team is high. But then you
couple that with the rising cost of equipment to your point,
because of private equity. Another point, you know, all these tariffs,
all these taxes, we're taxing sports. It's why the legislation
is so important in the relationship there with the NHL
to continue to advocate for hockey like it's a big,
big problem. And if you tax sports, the already rising
(02:41):
cost of equipment is going to skyrocket. And if you
can't afford to play, then you can't afford to play,
and then the numbers will go down. We've already seen
a decline in viewership, and I think there's a direct correlation.
You want to watch what you want to do, and
if you aren't allowed to play hockey because your parents
can't afford it, you can't play.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I mean, we've seen some corel razy averages come out
in the past couple call it years, from twenty twenty
three to twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five. People
are averaging this is not a hard and fast but
averaging that it's going to cost fifteen thousand dollars to
have a single child playing the sport of hockey. That
(03:20):
is from all the things that you just said, gear ice,
specialized coaching, heaven forbid. They want to go do a
shooter tutor, heaven forbid. They need to get on the
ice for power skating, heaven forbid. Their friends all go
to the same hockey camp that sleep away. That's thirty
five hundred dollars, that has crappy pizza and not what
the kids need to fuel their bodies like that cost.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
That's the average though, right, Yeah, so that's considering kids
playing rec league, house league, kids playing high school hockey.
On the opposite end of that spectrum. Some places, it's
seventy five hundred bucks just to be on the team, right,
ten grand just to be on the team. Then you
got to buy all your equipment. Then you got to
pay for travel, you know, housing while you're traveling, food
while you're traveling, missing school.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
It's if hockey is inaccessible from every angle, right, it
doesn't feel like it's for so many communities. If it's
inaccessible from every angle and then carries the price tag
of twenty thousand dollars a year, it's the easiest no
for a parent, No, you can't play hockey. But yes,
(04:20):
you can play X, Y Z other thing right, insert
other option here, because it's not like we're talking about
something that you can't replace. Kids are young, you can
get them to love other things. The cost of tickets.
You want to bring your kid to the glass and
have them look at their favorite athlete, they can't do it.
Lower Bowl tickets for the Bruins. You're looking at an
(04:43):
average ticket per seat at five hundred bucks. That's not parking,
that's not transit to get into the game. That's not food,
that's not a jersey, that is nothing but your butt
in a plastic seat experiencing the game.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I agree with that. I think though, that the focus
at the top should be more on keeping kids in
the game, and there are a lot of programs that
are doing that right, a lot of the NHL teams.
You just saw the PBHL rollout in the New York market.
I'm not sure if others did as well, but they're
doing clinics at what I feel is a very reasonable
affordable price. I think it's like four eighty five or
(05:20):
five hundred bucks or something. You get equipment with that,
you get instruction, but then you go from you know,
five hundred bucks for eight weeks to learn to skate
and then it starts to add up. So it's trying
to find a way to get kids interested in the game.
Street hockey is a good way to get people interested
in hockey and then hope that you know, all the
powers that be at the top can find a way
to make it more affordable. I mean, hockey's always been expensive,
(05:43):
but it just is getting out of hand and at
some point we have to recognize that we're going to
demolish the sport if we prioritize profit over participation.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
There also is a humongous opportunity with NHL Street with
street hockey and looking at ways to hone your craft.
That doesn't mean two skates on ice, because two skates
on ice is incredibly expensive right off the jump. But
if we can start looking at like companies like Franklin
back in the day and still do but would give
(06:12):
a lot of that street hockey gear, would host clinics
to have gear out and market like street hockey puck,
street hockey sticks, giveaways for youth players. They worked with
the NWHL All Star Game in Boston that year that
you were the captain with Jill Dempsey and did a clinic,
paid for a clinic, paid the athletes, and also gave
out street hockey gear because people are realizing that the
(06:33):
ice part is a very expensive element and there's so
much of hockey that can be accomplished on sneakers. When
I look at the accessibility right and I think about
NHL Street, when I think about the NHL now moving
forward with all things accessibility, going to that event, listening
to DNA Lang, listening to all of these folks really
talk about how hockey at an accessibility standpoint creates dignity
(06:55):
for people.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Full ASL broadcast of.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
The Yeah, full ASL broadcast.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Outdoor Game is it was it four Nations or the
outdoor game?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It was four Nations. So we say all of this
to say, yes, hockey is so expensive and there are
certain like routes of privilege that allow you it to
have better access to it. But there are a lot
of people that are trying to be creative and innovative
to help fix that problem. And I think at the
end of it all is it's like, to your point,
(07:24):
let's not let the barrier to entry stop participation.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I mean, like I've joked, at the minute, I have
to buy a hockey stick. I'm done playing because we
just I've gotten them for freeze for so long. But
when we took the kids to Pure Hockey tother day,
I was like, what does it come with a guaranteed
full ride. I mean, yeah, you can always get used equipment. Well,
there's a lot of great programs hockey and Harlem is
one that comes to mind, but there's a lot of
great programs that try to make hockey more accessible and
(07:48):
keep kids in the game. You can go to play
it against sports and get used gear.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Score Boston is a great program. I think about the
Ranger to Learn to Play program, and again there could
be other teams that are doing it like this. When
I think specifical about the Rangers Learned to Pay program,
how they make a bag of gear accessible, the cost
that they do it, and how much they do in
the tri state all the way up through southern Connecticut,
Like you see junior Rangers everywhere, and I think that
(08:13):
that is such a beautiful thing, Like we have to
have these kind of people that care and inspire them
and also let them know that on these packs pock
we're going to talk about it. We're going to say
it's too expensive. We cannot lose viewership, and we need
young kids to care because hockey players are incredible people
and they learn at such a young age the discipline,
(08:34):
the camaraderie, the team, the locker room, like all of
these things that just create really well thought out human beings.
And I think for all those reasons, you know, hockey
up being the most popular, it creates a real grit.
I think hockey players are just built different and I'm
excited to watch how it grows. And I'm hesitant to
watch things go vc, but I'm excited because there's a
(08:54):
lot of really smart people pushing in the right direction.
You included pack, Like, I'm impressed by all the work
everyone's doing right now. More to come and more to
come on that. I'm passionate about it. But I do
want to kind of like switch gears into our check in.
(09:14):
You're burnt to a crisp, You're you're the color red,
all right, you're the color of lipstick, You're your cherry red.
So let's check in, Like, let's let's really vibe on that.
How you doing, girl ninety seven, woman, one day in
the sun, Jesus red as a cherry but Jesus as
happy as could be. Yes, you're as red as the
(09:35):
record button right now.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I'm not that red. I skipped the sun block on
the face and the arms on accident.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah, you, I sprayed your back and you said to me,
it's cold, I'll do it. I'm fine. I went to
the gym, I came back anywhere that I did not spray.
Is the color red?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Well, we also learned that you aren't the best spray applier. Ye,
shoulder blades.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Blame it on me.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Well, I'm in ninety seven. It's sunny. I get to
be outside all day every day. The kids are back
in school. I knew that was coming out out to
Benita Springs for changing my life.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Shout out to two days of daycare after a four
month hiatus.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, it's uh. I felt a little guilty yesterday actually,
but it got over that very quickly. Where are you at?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Got over that quite quickly. I have been on meetings
literally back to back all day long. So my brain
is a little fried. But I'm with you, like I've
got a light sweat. I feel good. I get the guilt, though,
I will say like I was the kind of like
Matt leave parent in this dynamic and going from maternity leave,
which is your sole job is to take care of
(10:42):
your child. Obviously recover and get well. But like I
would say, going from matt leave to then going back
to work and sending the kids away was one of
the hardest things I've ever done. And I think you
peeling back from hockey and getting fully into mom mode
and then putting them into school, I commend you because
as they're older, they have feelings, They tell you that
you hurt them, They like they just dig right.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Raylyn became like my little therapist.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
It's tough man, which.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Maybe isn't a good thing to put on the podcast,
but he has a four year old braid.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
So if that's really where we were, you'd be.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
We were a couple of weeks ago. I was in
a bad spot, had a little mental breakdown, started crying.
He came over and rubbed my back and he's like,
what's wrong. I was like, mama's just sad today. Why
are you sad? Well, because Mama's not playing hockey anymore
and that's hard for me. And he'd like lit up
and was like that's okay. Went downstairs. God, his hockey
bag comes upstairs. I'll play hockey with you, mama. So
(11:36):
he went to the pond and played hockey for like
two hours.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Probably so excited. I will say, though, he is very
intuitive and he's very compassionate, Like he knows.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
He's an EmPATH.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Kids, No, they know he's an EmPATH. So were you, though,
So like that is very nurture of you and him
to have that connection.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
I understand so much more Like I've been just kind
of taking time right to figure out what I want
to do. I don't have a ton going on most
days because I'm my day has been just spending time
with them and kind of making up for lost time.
But I got to the point where I was I
like would find myself being resentful because it was always
fun at some point in the day, but like there
were always also really hard parts of the day, and
(12:16):
I would find myself like resenting, like, Okay, why am
I doing this all day? And then you would have
a long day of work and then it would be
a tough bedtime and I would be like, well, I
just took care of them all day, and it's not
supposed to feel like that. Like it's a reason why,
like being a mom is the hardest job in the world,
but also it's supposed to be rewarding, and like you
finally were like, there's no reason that we can't get help.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
It's just I think the other thing, too, is like
that the comment of like the days are long, the
years are short, couldn't be more true. The days are
so long. I love my kids. But like if someone says, oh,
do you like having kids, that answer changes on a
daily basis. I'm like, no, yeah, don't recommend it. But
like at the end of the year and I'm like
at their birthday and I'm like, look at all you've
(12:57):
accomplished for an entire year. Yes, you're easy, but it's
just like hard.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Taking that like asking for what I needed right and
getting that little bit of a break now, Like I'm
so excited that we're going put putting. I'm so excited
to go get them from school and go put putt. Yeah,
and it's gonna be so much more enjoyable.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
We all are like everyone's a better mom when they've
had what they need.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Oh, I thought you meant a better mom than you.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
No, no, no, no, Well listen, we're not making bold claims here.
No one is competing for that title. We are both
incredible moms. But it is like I think that's where
like this leans into our next conversation so well, but
like asking for what you need, building your community, like
understanding what resources really help you. But nothing is as
clear as when you are a mom and you need support,
(13:39):
and when you're a mom and you feel ostracized, or
you feel lonely, or you go through a traumatic life event.
So next is a conversation that's near and dear to
my heart. We talked to Ali Kreeger for a thousand reasons.
She is an Olympia and a world champion. She's a
change maker. She's innovated the world of women's sports so
that you and I can have more and better. But
(14:01):
she's also a mom, and she's had a tough time
and she found people that really elevate her and make
her back into her best self. So I'm happy that
you're going through this journey. I'm really proud of you
for feeling comfortable to ask for the right support. I'm
not the best at it, but in our next conversation
we learn how Ali does it. So let's jump into it.
(14:33):
I am so excited we are starting today with one
of my favorite people, which is high honor. Actually, Ali,
you should feel very proud, you know what. Thank you,
But Ali Kreeker joins us today. I've loved the moments
when we can be at events together and have that
like immediate kinship with anybody. I've felt it so strongly
with you. So you are absolutely a mom, a badass,
(14:55):
a soccer star, all the things. Welcome to the pod.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Well, thanks for having me. Im'm so honored to here,
and the feelings are very, very mutual.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I laugh because like, so we go to these events
and like my new thing with Maddie is like she's
decided we're not friends with people that we're friends with,
and so I have to remind her that we're friends.
So we're like laughing and we're having this whole like
Keiki when we were at the athlete Ally event, but
we just saw you and immediately the tables like hysterically laughing.
We're saying all the things, doing all the things, and
(15:25):
I think in those moments we have to like pinch
ourselves that hockey is getting to the place that we
can start to be like equals and friends. So we
appreciate your friendship but also excited that we can now
officially be not fangirls whilst fangirling every time we see you.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yeah, I mean didoh?
Speaker 5 (15:40):
But I feel like Explorer brings people together and then
it's just your choice to take it where you want
to take it. After that, it's like, Okay, thank you,
you know, hockey and soccer for bringing us together.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
But now like the real fun starts.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Yes, when we unleash the children.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I do have to throw some brief shade because I
first met Ali back when you dropped a puck for
us and you came in and I'm glad you asked.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
No we met before that, really no, before that on
the MSG thing, Yeah, oh yeah at MSG.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, when I was like, I have no idea what
I'm doing. I'm terrified, madam commercial break. I looked at her.
I was like, I was like, help, we have never
done this before. She was like what. Had a conversation.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
She's like, Bave, don't let them put makeup on my face.
Oh oh my god.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
But we when you came to the hockey game, you
were like, I'm what do I do? And we were like,
you just dropped the puck and you were going to
toss it up in the air was like that you
have to tell me.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Yeah, of course. I was like, I don't know what
to do. Do you like spin it?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Like you just drop it? Yeah, you just drop it.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
And then and you like tossed it up and were
like no, just drop no, just just just let it go.
You crushed it. Though you crushed it, you helped our
attendants that game.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I will say that's like the number one thing when
people come to be like an honored guest at a
hockey game and they have to drop the puck, It's
like the most stressful thing because hockey's in such a
small bubble. It's like, what does that mean? Drop the puck?
Do I throw the puck? Do I What do I do?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
But no one was even helping me kind.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Of walk out there. I was like do I stop
at the end of the carpet, Like I don't? Do
I go on the like I don't know where to go,
which way do I turn? Just where do I look?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I didn't even know penguin slot.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
And then and then the two captains I guess that
were out there were like okay, like they were looking
at the camera and they weren't even facing me, And
I was just standing there smiley, like what's going on?
And they were like posing for the photo like normal,
and I was just like, and they go, you have
to drop it now, you gotta drop it now, like look,
and I was like, okay, then I dropped it and
(17:33):
that's yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
It worked out.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
The rest is history.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Yeah, it's fine, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
It's it's amazing. And honestly, like, I love to kind
of start with this idea because not foreign to you
is sport and soccer and being literally one of the
most incredible soccer players in you know, history.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Oh things.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
It didn't come from just like the internal will twin
and internal like I love soccer so much, it came
from somewhere else. So it was kind of inspired by
something else. Tell us a little little bit about the
connection that you have to make soccer more than a
sport for you.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
Yeah, I love this beautiful game so much, and I
was so passionate about it at such a young age.
I just wanted to be, you know, around my brother
all the time. Whatever he was doing, I wanted to
do because one, I liked him a lot, and you know,
I just was so happy to play and hang out
with him all the time. But My dad really introduced
me to soccer at such a young age, around five
or six, because he also played soccer, but he was
(18:28):
he lived a super athletic, healthy lifestyle. My mom as well,
like they were both athletes in college, and you know,
my dad went on and played pro a little bit
here and there, and then eventually just went into coaching.
So by that time I was born, I was you know,
that was just immediate, and that was just kind of,
you know, the next step for me just staying active
and trying to live this healthy lifestyle. He you know,
(18:50):
introduced me to the sport, and then my brother loved it,
so then I wanted to play it. My brother and
I played on the indoor team and he coached that
team called the Cosmos, and from then on, I think
at age seven was when I got kind of got
more serious about playing club and then my dad ended
up being my coach, and so he originally introduced me
to the game at that age and molded me into
(19:10):
such a good player at a young age because he
was actually the best teacher of the game that I've
ever had, and I played, you know, obviously at every level,
and he still to this day is probably the best
coach that I've ever had playing the sport, and he
had our team from age seven to age eighteen, and
so throughout there he took I think eight of us
stayed together through that time period, and I think at
(19:31):
least I think over half the team went to Division
one college and was able to get scholarships and play.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
I think I was the only one that really went on.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Maybe another had played overseas, but I think I was
the only one that you know, continued after college to
play professionally consistently. But that just goes without saying. I
think I was set up for success at the very beginning, luckily.
And then we shared that bond. First of all that
father daughter bomb, but also just the love of the game.
And he was such a proud dad, and you know,
(20:01):
soccer was just something that we shared and that we
loved together, and he introduced me to it, and so
I appreciated that from him, And yeah, he was my
hero growing up. You know, just how much he loved
the game and how much he taught me, and we
had that really good connection, so driving to and from
practice and you know, sharing these little moments together.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
I'll never forget.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
He hasn't missed really a tournament over the years and
has always been at the professional games, and he was
at some of my college games, and you know, he
just was always a part of my soccer journey and
someone who I could always lean on. And so from
age seven until now, it's like you know, it was,
it was a dream to have him in my corner
the entire time.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Thank you for sharing that one too. It's so refreshing
to hear you share that story because you and I
actually have a lot of similarities.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
My dad very similarly.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
He wasn't the coach, he was the team manager, but
he helped build the program into a place that a
lot of people wanted to come play. And so like
same thing. We had lots of girls go d one,
several went on to play in the pros. But my
dad always made it fun, like there was never that pressure,
never like if I didn't play well, there was a
punishment or like write the expectation. And I think that
(21:11):
that's just refreshing because you look at so many kids
now and how much pressure there is in everything m
and like I can't even understand it as a parent
because I just had similarly to you, like the world's
most supportive dad. It made me want to be better.
It made me love what I was doing right versus
having that like crushing feeling of anxiety and pressure all
the time. Right.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
And there were sometimes that I don't know if you
know you had spoken to your dad about this either,
even just like taking the manager hat off and just
being a dad sometimes because I struggled with my dad
sometimes not all the time that I was like, Dad,
I just need my dad right now.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
I don't need my coach.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
And so if you could take the coaching hat off
right now and just be my dad, that would be great.
But the advice you would give me, and maybe you
had the same experience, but I have taken it through
my entire career, my entire life so far, and this journey,
and it's helped me, you know, with just different aspects
of life, not just with sport. And so I'm super
grateful for those little moments that we shared, and I'm
sure you had similar with your dad. But yeah, I'll
(22:10):
never forget. I'll never forget that. And unfortunately he passed
this past year and from Alzheimer's and dementia.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Unfortunately I don't have that anymore, that.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
Phone call at the end of a game being like,
you know, because it was the past four years that
you know, since twenty nineteen World Cup, he started to
kind of you know, yeah, say some weird things and
kind of start that process of you know, the cognitive
decline was pretty rapid after that. So besides the point,
I missed that little phone call that I could calm
(22:40):
up after a game and be like, which, so what'd
you think? You know, what were your thoughts? You know,
and getting feedback and stuff. So I really missed that
from him, and obviously to share now more time together
and the retirement and all of that, and obviously his
grandkids who he didn't really get a chance to know
very well. So I miss him every singley. But what
(23:01):
he gave me was a tool to understand how to
work hard and be successful at something, and I'm forever
grateful for that.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Well, so then does that answer the age old debate
are you going to coach the kids or are you
gonna let that be someone else's job.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
I don't know if I could allow that to be
someone else's job, because I think I'm gonna be like, yeah, yeah,
someone someone I'll just show up on the sideline, have
my little wine cooler and be fine.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
No.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
But I think eventually when I get into it, I'm like, Okay.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
What are you doing over there? What are they teaching them?
Speaker 3 (23:31):
What are they I always say, I'm like, I want
to coach them when they're good? Is that bad? Y?
I don't want to teach our kids to skate. I
think I'm gonna not like it and not like them.
I think I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna be like,
just do it. I don't get Yeah, but like, once
they're good, I can't ignore the x's and o's.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
What is wrong with you?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
I don't know. I think maybe it can be the extra,
like you know, after practice, maybe I'll.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Be the skills coach, the bonus.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
And the rides home to and from. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
So I love that And I think that like that
infuses so much of how you parent, and just like,
like take the coaching hat off is such an important question,
especially as you become a parent, and like you make
decisions as a parent, and then you try to figure
out how to navigate all the roles and naturally, like
you said, like he took you from eight to eighteen
and then you had to fly and naturally he becomes
that third kind of person in your life. But there's
(24:24):
so many different moments like hoisting a World Cup, winning
with the NWSL, with with Gotham, Like, there's so many
moments in your life that you really feel like, you know,
you've kind of been at the top, or movements, equal pay,
you know, all the things. What's the one that stands out?
If you can, like you know, right now you're having
a person paint a portrait, what is that moment for you,
the one that you choose.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
Everyone would think like championships and this and that, But
I think going through such an incredible experience with a
group of women, I am most proud of equal pay period.
Nothing I'll ever beat that. But I think if I
could choose one thing, it's just building like flung friendships
with people who have gone through the same thing and
the same experience and had endured the same amount mentally, physically,
(25:07):
emotionally in the sport and in the environment that we
were put in for so long or that we chose
that to be in. And so I think for me
now that goes way beyond football, That goes way beyond
the sport. And I'm so grateful that I have people
in my life day to day that have, you know,
(25:28):
kind of gone through the same stuff and kind of
have a good understanding and really understand me on most importantly,
on a really deep level.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
To your point about equal pay, Like, have you ever
stopped to truly think about what you did for not
just soccer, but women's sport, Like, directly, I am a
byproduct of those efforts, because no one cared at all
about women's hockey until people started caring more and more
about women's sport as a whole. And that started with
the US women's national team. Right, you guys were underpaid, undervalued,
(25:56):
and you were performing. You deserve to get paid, right,
But not even the active receiving payment itself, just the
conversation that it sparked in the eyes, and then people
got interested and then people started watching basketball more like
it created a whole big movement that then allowed us
to have a better opportunity for investors, et cetera. Have
you stopped to like think about that truly and like
you have not made what the generation behind you will
(26:18):
make because of your efforts. I'm sure that's frustrating, but
there are so many people who owe their moment now
to people like you, like it's crazy.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
I have stopped and think about it.
Speaker 5 (26:29):
I've you know, you always want to leave the game
better than when you found it, and you always want to,
you know, just be a part of something bigger than yourself. Really,
I never signed up just to make the money. I
never signed up just to you know, win championships. I mean, yeah,
is that all great and grand? Of course that's the goal,
right to just be successful and to win. And I'm
(26:50):
also addicted to winning, so that was, you know, helpful
along the way. But I think ultimately this was always
supposed to be because the players who came before us
had you know, created an easier path for us to
kind of come into and then and then maybe a
lighter space to be a part of. And now our
job was to do the same. And I think when
you see all these nil deals too in college, like
(27:12):
that was our job too. This is like the cycle
that is supposed to be for the future generations. You're
supposed to just have it a little bit easier, a
little bit lighter than we did. And then that makes
us feel better because the work that we put in
actually mattered, and I mean it meant something, and so
I think this was always the process, but it needed,
I think a group of women who are really determined
(27:33):
and willing to take that risk to even lose their job,
to you know, fight for more. And if we didn't
do it individually and as a group, then we weren't
sure who was going to do it. And we were
sick and tired of winning and putting in all the
work and just not getting what we deserved and not
feeling respected. And it was about damn time that we
(27:55):
stepped up and we you know, spoke on each and
every one of our platforms, and then we spoke on
our platform together, and you obviously, like, you know, you
have more power in numbers, and I think that we
knew that we needed to just step up and speak.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Out and it was time.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
And I think that we all were put in that
same place, in that same environment because of that specific reason.
And so when I look back, I am most proud
of that because we multi tasks very well. We were
fighting for equal pay off the field, and it wasn't
just about us. It was about women across all industries
and all sports. We weren't just you know, selfishly thinking oh,
(28:34):
how can we put ourselves in a position to get
more money and to be recognized more and to be
valued and appreciated more. No, it was actually about you know,
other sports, other women fighting for themselves in their own workplace.
And on the other hand, we had to win so
that we had our employer listening to what we were
wanting to change and impact in a positive way. So
(28:55):
not only did we have to you know, win World
Cups and Olympics and all the things and every tournament
that we you know, were a part of, because that
was the only reason that they would listen, but we
also had to fight.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
And it took.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Hours and hours and days and months and years of
litigation in federal court to actually come to the conclusion
that we are now, which is still not there right
Like we've conquered a little piece of the of the puzzle,
but it's not you know, yet complete, and the work
will never be done, which we all know that. But
at least we've gotten somewhere and we've improved to a
(29:29):
space where now you can build off of that. So
now we have like a good foundation, I would say,
but that doesn't necessarily mean we don't you know, want
more than what we fought for But yeah, to your point,
I am most proud of that. But I see so
many improvements and the standard is being you know, raised
higher and higher every year, and that's that in itself.
(29:51):
I feel like we've accomplished, you know, something good.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
I remember downloading Instagram my junior year of college, being like,
oh my god, let me post a picture of my
beer cup. Like what and now pagebackers makes a million
dollars on X y Z whatever, right, like or who
knows how much it could be even more than that,
But like we see these athletes creating generational wealth, buying properties, investing,
like like we didn't even have Instagram, Like this is
(30:17):
a short hockey stick climb for women's sports. And to
make people care, like you think about your own college
sports career, Like to make people care in that moment,
they had to be in the arena, they had to
be at the field, They did to be at trained
they just see you put your boots on. That's not
the case anymore. You know, the scale that we can
have as female athletes, and what equal pay did to
(30:38):
shine a light on it, and then what like social
media in general does.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
It's crazy to think about.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
And I'm like gosh, did we miss it by have
you know, a handful of years And.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
I'm like, maybe we should just go back and redo.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
It, But no, that's what's supposed to happen, right, It's
like they wouldn't have what they have if.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
We didn't put in the work.
Speaker 5 (30:57):
You're right, and I can say that confident, and so
I think, I know, I don't mean just me, but
I'm in we like you know, us in our generation,
fighting for what we do every day and hopefully by
the time we're you know, old and gray and can
barely walk because of our knees a hurting and our
back's a hurting.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Which is only like a few years for some of us, Allie, it's.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Only wheelchairs, like next year.
Speaker 5 (31:22):
But hopefully they'll be able to retire once they're once
they're done, and they can just live off of whatever
they make.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
That'll be amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
So to that point, you're at like the peak of
your career, right you You've been to an Olympics, World Cup,
were playing for Florida. You decide to become a mom.
How do you go from knowing that you want to
have kids to making a decision to do it right
in the middle of your career and how how I mean,
how did it change? How do you balance that?
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Yeah, a great question.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
I think I was already about thirty six thirty seven, right,
and then COVID hit. It was right after Olympic qualifying
tournament in the final where we just had one against Canada.
I think we beat them three three one or three nothing,
and then we were going to go to the Olympics
that year, obviously in twenty twenty, and unfortunately a month
later after that tournament or even I think we were
(32:12):
heading home from that tournament wondering what was going to
happen because COVID was there, and I think it just
everything shut down, The league shut down, and then I
went home with my ex wife and ended up deciding
to have kids because I was already at the stage
where I was like, I don't want to get pregnant
and then try to come back, because I still enjoyed
playing and I still knew I had some more playing
(32:34):
to give, and I wanted to continue playing because I
wasn't yet satisfied really with the way that my career
had gone in Orlando, and not that I was planning
on ever leaving, but I just wanted to play a
little bit longer to see what else I could do
and what else I could win once again. You know,
I was addicted to winning. So I decided with my ex, like, hey,
(32:56):
let's just put in our names for you know, the
adoption and see what happens. We have a little bit
of time now and maybe it'll take like two three years.
We don't know, you know, that's what somebody had had
told us, like, hey, we put on our name, but
it took a while, so maybe you want to do
that and by the time you're done, maybe you know,
you'll be able to receive a child from the agency
(33:17):
and whatever. So we had gone through the process and
I was in touch with the home study officer and
you know, made a whole book for the match to happen,
if and when that was ever going to be. Well,
we get a phone call like not even like three
weeks later, and they're like, hey, so we have a
(33:37):
potential birth mom, and do you want to put in
your name for like, you know, the pot basically, and
you know, the way they do it is that the
birth mom has to look through a group of families
and then they choose and then it's also like our
decision if we want to match with them. So I
(33:58):
was like, okay, well if there's like five six other
families hopefully, but you know, there's potential that she could
choose somebody else, so let's just do it.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
Why not. Well, then they're in the Fall Series.
Speaker 5 (34:10):
I get a call after the last game of the
Fall Series and we get a call and the lady's like, okay,
are you sitting down?
Speaker 4 (34:16):
And I was like no way.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
So this happened within like three to four months from
May until I think like October or something like that,
and I was so shook that that we matched with her.
So then we just agreed and Sloan came February twenty
twenty one, and we only had a few months to.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Like prep so we were like, oh shit, like you
know this it was wild.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
I was like, this is our last this is our
last New Year's, this is our last Christmas.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
They're like, let's follow it out because.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
You know what I mean, yes, is we're gonna have,
you know, a family of three soon, so like, let's
figure it out and just enjoy another vacation before you know,
the baby comes because we didn't know what to expect.
And then the second adoption was just we wanted to,
you know, add Ocean to the family, and we always
told the adoption officer, hey, in the future. This was
(35:06):
after we like had moved to Gotham and New Jersey
and so that following year and yeah, it was he
was born in Philly and we get a call and
because we had to just keep us in mind and
we'll see where we're at in the future, like maybe
we'll add to the family, or maybe Ali's gonna get
pregnant whatever, and so, yeah, Ocean, he was born in Philly,
(35:28):
and I think that was one of the main reasons
why we ended up, you know, coming to Jersey.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
That's what we always said. And I remember my ex.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Saying, you know, our family's not complete, and we were
both really excited that it was a boy. And so
we brought Ocean into the family. And he's been like
so incredibly joyful and his disposition is so like friendly
and loving and kind. I mean Sloan as well. I
mean they're just two happy, fun, loving kids, great personally,
(36:00):
and I couldn't be happier with them. And I'm just
so proud to be their mom and that they chose
us too. So yeah, it's it's been great. Obviously you
you both understand how busy it is.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Yea too under two and like as a choice to
under two is like I laugh because like it's it's
a choice for everybody, right, like to a degree. But
like I said to Maddie, I'm like, I'm never walking
into a doctor's office again. I'm never gonna do it.
I'm not going because I can't sleep. We can't do
But like it is that moment that you get the
call and you're like, wait, no, we're pregnant. I think
(36:34):
you posted that time in the hospital, like that first
yeah moment where you're just like you're just that that
baby's mom. Like I love I love that you shared that,
and like when you go through that process like you've
won a thousand things, Is there any moment that compares?
Speaker 5 (36:50):
No, I I think this is the hardest job in
the world. I never thought I had this much love
in me, Like I I love my kids, it's to death.
And I didn't realize like I could love someone or
two kids so much. And I'm so happy that I
discovered that. You know, when Sloan was born, and then
(37:11):
obviously Ocean coming next, It's like Yeah, you have a
whole new chamber of love opening up in your body.
It's like really difficult to explain unless you've experienced it
being a mom or a parent, I should say, because
I didn't obviously give birth to them, but I love
them just as much and I just can't imagine my
(37:32):
life without them. I don't even remember my life before,
you know what I was. Yeah, Like I was like,
what was I doing? Just watching like Netflix and egging
on the couch, like eating snacks.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Now your life looks a little bit different, right, Like
you're not You're not playing anymore. You're still doing all
the things. But how hard was it to balance like
that first transition when you came back in how hard
was it to balance your training with being a mom
and trying to navigate that.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
It was really difficult because I only took two weeks
off and we had I think twelve weeks that we
could have taken off, but I only took two weeks
because it was in pre season. I wanted to play,
and I felt like we had the support and help
from the family, so we were able to get back
to work quickly. And it was difficult because we I
think we had a night nanny probably like three nights
(38:30):
a week, but the other nights obviously was us. I
think that was difficult. Not sleeping. I think a lot
of parents can relate, but also having to then go
perform and you know, at your job, which is super physical,
I mean emotional and mentally too, but you know, physically
it's challenging. So if you don't have you're not sleeping properly,
you're not able to perform your best. So you just
try to like push through. We had all the help
(38:52):
we could get, and thankfully because you know, you know,
nights before the game, i'd have to have you know,
I'd have to be able to sleep, but some nights
that wasn't an option, and so as you know, like
you just got to do it. And I think traveling
with the kids and the team was awesome because they
could socialize, they could get used to, you know, just
on the go lifestyle. You know, everything was just kind
(39:15):
of thrown at them at once, and they're very resilient
and the way that they you know, have just like
navigated life in this lifestyle that we have has been
really brilliant and they're thriving now as little kids and
daycare and I think that gave them a lot of
you know, good tools as a foundation to really you know,
(39:37):
create a safe space and a good environment for them
to grow up in.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
The part about you is a mom that I loved.
We were at an event. We were at an athlete
ali event, and we're all talking and immediately walks up
a mom friend couple that you are friends with, that
was your date right air go date to this event.
And that's the kind of community. It's not always hey,
watch my kids. Hey, you know, like you're part of
(40:05):
my village, like I need something. Sometimes it's like you're
part of my village. You're my family now, Like you're
my chosen family now. And so you know, through this
whole process of the team moving and all the things
like you've created or you guys moving and you know,
bringing kids into the world, you've created a network of
people that really support each other. Like meeting your mom
(40:28):
friends and like we talk about mom friends as such
like an arbitrary like, oh my mom friends did this thing,
but your mom friends are like so solid and like
that part of your life and being able to share
that broadly with an event like athlete Ally, which was
not a close group it was like, you know, a
bunch of donors, people, et cetera. That was so fun.
That's like, like objectively a very cool mom thing to do.
(40:51):
And so like, how does that village show up for
each other? How have you built that community? And why
is it so important to you?
Speaker 5 (40:57):
It's important because it's like life after too. I want
to make friends outside of soccer, and I think community
is huge, especially the lifestyle that we live, and I
think having that support. I feel like I should just
give a shout out to our kids because they're the
ones who brought us together really at school pickup, Like
I was like.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
My kids making my friends for me.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
Would be friends?
Speaker 5 (41:17):
Yeah, right, and I and sometimes you know, parent friends
might not be as cool and you're like, okay, I
know our kids are friends.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Were like are you cool? Like are we going to
be cool? And a vibe and it ended up working out.
Speaker 5 (41:28):
Yeah. I got the vibe right away and I was like, cool,
let's like have a play date at the park. And
that's how it kind of began. This happened kind of
towards the end of last season, before I'd retired, and
I think the very first game they actually came to
was my retirement game in October, so they like hit
the tail end of the season. But besides that, we've
grown a really beautiful friendship over this amount of time
(41:49):
since last year. It's been about a year, and I'm
so grateful that I have them in my corner. And
then I met other queer families who attend the same school,
and so then and they know other queer families and
we kind of meet up on the weekends and hang out,
and it's really enjoyable to have that outside of, you
know what, I'm so used to just in the sports world,
(42:09):
and so I can like lean on them and I
know that I have them in my corner, and we
can go to events together.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
We do dinners together, we do play dates together.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
They come over for you know, happy hours, and they
come over on the weekends, we'll go to the playground.
I mean, we're just always active and always in communication.
And I think just having that community, like you said,
and that chosen family is really healthy. Because I've had
to now invest I didn't realize I was going to
be here longer than the two year contract, but the
way the things happen my personal life obviously has kind
(42:38):
of changed that path for me. But I now have
invested in the community here, and I've invested in my
life here, and I've invested in my kids' lives here
because they are really happy, they're healthy, they they're making
friends and you know, I'm making friends with the parents,
and so it's just such a great community and I'm
super grateful that it's all working out, you know, really well.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
Yeah, I mean, it's not to ignore the elephant in
the room, but there was a massive shift in your
family dynamic, you know, and what felt like was a
done picture now is a totally different picture. And so,
you know, you go through divorce, you do so in
an incredibly probably exposing public way, and you have to
shepherd to babies through that and I think, like community,
(43:19):
all the things are that safe space for you. But
as you go through that, and you know, there's a
thousand questions, there's a thousand things. How do you navigate something?
Because we always kind of play this devil's advocate of
we're still people, right, but we have the privilege of
the pressure of being famous. Is the word it's a
hard it's a weird word for us all to use,
(43:40):
but it's public figure, public figure, whatever the thing is
you go through this big thing kind of like what
is that? Like, what does that spin you into and
where do you kind of find that path through it?
Speaker 5 (43:53):
Well, firstly, yeah, thank you for the question. I'm in
such a better place and I'm so looking forward to
the next phase, the new era, a new era. And
this year has been so so difficult because there's three
major things that happen. Obviously, retirement, my wife left, and
my dad passed. So I really I was really in
(44:15):
like a dark place just trying to navigate all the
things kind of thrown at me, and I tried to
stay busy to you know, try to overcome everything.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
But yeah, it's been such a shift.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
And I think I've said this before, but the universe
sent me a gift and now I just I'm taking
that gift and I'm doing everything I can to stay
on the path that I want to stay on because
I have other passions, I have other goals that I
want to achieve, and other dreams that I want for
myself and my family. So I'm tackling those one day
at a time. And you know, everything happens for a reason,
(44:45):
and I didn't know in the moment why that had
happened and why this was a huge eruption basically right
at the end of my career. But I'm seeing little
I guess reasons here and there and moments that I'm like, ah, okay,
this makes sense. As a dust is settling, I see
that this is, you know, what's best for me moving
(45:07):
forward in my life. And I'm super happy and I'm
super grateful that my kids are happy and healthy and
still having fun once again, they are super resilient. Yeah,
we're doing the best we can and providing them just
with all the happiness and love that they deserve. And
so that's been really wonderful and out of such a
shitty situation, right, I never thought this was going to
be my life. So I've had to definitely pivot. But
(45:29):
I'm onto bigger and better things and so, you know,
it's been really hard. It's been really hard, but I've
taken that because I don't want to allow that to
define who I am. And I obviously think that it
wasn't a community divorce, it's not a community relationship. Yes,
did we want people to feel good about seeing, you know,
(45:51):
an authentic couple together to really help with more visibility
in LGBTQ community and really make people feel like they
could love whoever they want to love and be happy
with ever lifestyle they choose. Of course, like that Thatubt's
definitely the goal. But the goal was never to have
a public discourse about a separation and a divorce and
(46:13):
one most importantly about my kids right Two, no one's business,
quite frankly. And three I'm actually like pretty private about
that aspect of my life because of this specific reason.
And to give people a platform to talk shit about me,
my kids, any parties involved, like that's.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Just was not the goal.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Thank you for sharing all that. I truly you are
one of the most just genuine people that I've ever met,
ever spoken to. Every time I talk to you, I
learned something from you. So thank you for sharing all
of that. I know that someone else is going to
hear it. It's going to help them. And you mentioned
also bigger and better things that you're moving on to.
I've seen some of it. You're doing a lot of
(46:57):
cool stuff right now, and can you tell us a
little bit about out kind of what some of those
things are. One of which, if you don't mind, just
your work with athlete ally and other LGBTQ plus advocacy programs.
You do a lot of incredible work in that space.
It's more important now than ever, So I'd love if
you could talk to us a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
Yeah. So obviously with athlete Ally, I've been an ambassador
since I think twenty fifteen. Yeah, since twenty fifteen, I
think I've been ambassador with athlete Ally, and that's just
like a no brainer for me. I would love to
continue the work for years to come. Whenever they want
to have me, I'm there and just spreading awareness throughout
our league, more specifically just with the NWSL, because that's
(47:36):
the sport that I've played, soccer obviously, and I think
that we really need more visibility in the game day
in and day out, and so that's why I've been
trying to be a staple within that. And then I'm
also working as ESPN analysis for specifically women's soccer, and
I have a women's soccer show every Tuesday night, which
is so great because I love to give females that
(47:57):
platform to be able to just be recognized and to
feel valued and appreciate it and talk about the sport.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
That we all love.
Speaker 5 (48:04):
And because the game is growing in such a positive
direction and because people are just you know, wanting to
be a part of it now, and it's kind of
a movement and such as a moment, right, So I
want to stay on that, and I want to continue
telling these stories and interview players who you know, have
really impacted the game or are currently impacting the game
in such a beautiful way in a positive direction. So
(48:25):
I'm just also an ambassador with Gotham and I just
want to bring the community in more and recognizing what
more can be done parallel to soccer and parallel to
the NWSL, and how we can collab more and get
more people into the seats to celebrate the game that
we love, and also build more relationships with the community
(48:47):
and kind of be that liaison between the community and
the club and then also the coaching staff and the
front office staff to the team, to the players physically.
Speaker 4 (48:54):
I also want to help.
Speaker 5 (48:55):
And mentor a lot of the younger players that come
along into the club. So there's a position there that
when I where I go to events or we'reever going
to speak engagements, I try to bring up Gotham and
just talk about it, you know, because I don't know,
if a lot of people really know there's there's a
team that here exists, and so I think just kind
of doing that. So those are like my three main gigs.
And then along with that, I'm building something that I
(49:16):
can't yet talk about, but yeah, it's gonna be, yeah,
really really great, something that I've personally wanted to do
for a long time. So that's going to be announced
within you know, the next few months.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
I'm obsessed to see you win is such a beautiful thing.
And and like there's all the wins that are public
and known in all the things, but there's also like
the little wins that you have on a daily basis,
like when Whyland doesn't pee his pants? Like I've won
forever and it's the most amazing day ever, because like
sometimes the kid just doesn't want to stop playing. I'm like,
you could stop, could hit the bathroom, and then you
(49:50):
could just jump right back in. It's no big deal.
But I love that that we can also tie in
some like serious mom wins, so like what's happening in
your house, Like what are Sloane Ocean doing? What's a
win that you're like, the kids aren't getting this thing,
but we're getting there. We're moving in the right direction.
Speaker 5 (50:05):
I think the way that they're using their words has
been incredible. I think they've been thriving in school, in
the school that they're at, so I think just communicating
and telling me what they want. Even Ocean at you know,
almost two and a half, like he's really expressing himself
with using his words now, and they say please and
thank you, and they're they're just like super disciplined, and yeah,
do they have their moments. Of course, like Ocean he's
(50:28):
just gonna run anywhere and you're just gonna have to
go chase him, like it's just it's a scene. But
Sloane really now is like they're just really kind of
in the self discovery phase where they're really understanding themselves
a little bit more and what they want, what they
don't want. And I appreciate that. And then also Sloan
is almost fully potty trained. We've really struggled at that beginning,
and I know a lot of parents kind of still
that she still wears her overnight diapers, which I think
(50:49):
she'd probably do it'stil she's twenty.
Speaker 3 (50:51):
That's what I decided.
Speaker 4 (50:53):
It was just totally fine. It's normal, but yeah, no judges.
Speaker 5 (50:57):
But she's been peeing on the on the toilet consistently
and saying, Mommy, I gotta go pee. And then as
soon as she she says that, we go and she
peace and so it's like such a win and I'm
so proud of her. And Ocean now is wanting to
start yes, because he just he's heard do it, and
so who knows how that's gonna go. That thing's gonna
go everywhere, but you know it's gonna be a real treat.
But I think now those small winds, I think, like
(51:19):
you said, and just seeing them grow up and really
kind of discover themselves at different phases and stages of
their childhood is really really cool.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
I love a home win. I love a home win
when you're like you feel like you're like like out
on the front lines and other things in your life
and you're like, I did not Harlan kissed Madison this
morning goodbye, And sometimes Harlan wants to just slap her, right,
but like she got a kiss today, So I'm like
leaving with Harlan in my arms, like we've won today.
Mama's on like not on the like abuse train, She's
(51:48):
on the kiss. Mom loved her train, So we're a
okay in the packer house.
Speaker 5 (51:53):
Yeah, I mean, Sloan always loves to kiss Ocean goodbye
when he walks into his classroom because I take her
on the other side and it's really sweet and she's like, oh,
shin wai, you didn't give us a hug and a kiss,
and it's like, you know, she's like holding him accountable.
And then he comes back out and he's like, yeah,
I forgot, you know, but that I can relate to that.
It's really really sweet, and yeah, it's definitely a win.
(52:15):
So we always finish every episode the exact same way, okay,
And we finished with a question, okay, which is what
is the best piece of advice that you have received,
or maybe didn't receive, but wish you had about being
a mom. I think the best advice I received was
from my dad. My dad always said, as a parent,
I never wanted to tell you what to do or
(52:35):
how to do it, but I wanted to give you
the tools fore you to figure it out for yourself.
And I appreciated that along the way because that's exactly
what I've done and I'm now, you know, doing that
with my kids, and I think that's just a really
great piece of advice from a parent to another parent.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
I love that so much. I think so often we
hear like kind of the same, like lean on your people,
do your things, but like, there's things that just stand
out about certain parents. And as you explain your dad
to start the episode, and as you kind of leave
us with that nugget, it's the most perfect culmination of
the imprint that he's left on your life and what
you bring into parenting and motherhood and honestly just leadership
(53:15):
in general. So thank you for breaking down some walls
with us talking about all the things, and also just
being yourself. You're such a light, and so this has
been quite enjoyable. We are excited for whatever the new
hot thing that's coming out is. We are all waited
on bated breath. So I'm excited you're killing it and everything.
(53:36):
So thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 5 (53:38):
I really look up to you both as well, and
just appreciate everything you've done and give into your own sports.
And yeah, it's nice to just have fellow about us
women to ride this wave with.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
And that's all we have today.
Speaker 4 (53:53):
Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
I'm Aya Packer and I'm Madison Packer, and this is
These Packs Puck.
Speaker 3 (54:02):
These Packs Puck is a production of iHeart Women's Sports
in Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
It's hosted by us Madison and Anya Packer. Emily Meronoff
is our awesome senior producer and story editor. We were
mixed and mastered by Mary Doo. Our executive producers are
Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz, and Ali Perry.
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm a recently retired pro hockey vet, a founding member
of the National Women's Hockey League, a pillar in the PHF,
and an inaugural member of the PWHL Sirens.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
And I'm Anypacker, also a former pro hockey player, also
founding member of the National Women's Hockey League. But today
I'm a full Madison Packer. Stand.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Anya and I met through hockey, then we got married,
and now we're moms.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
To two awesome toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
And on our new podcast, These Packs Puck, we're opening
up about the chaos of our daily lives, between the
juggle of being athletes, raising children and all the messiness
in between. Hey, Anya, what's a packy?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Where are we at?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Literally? Where are we at? Like physically? Not like that.
Not this isn't the check in.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
We're in Florida. We're in the state that doesn't love us,
the sunshine on anyone but US state. But that's okay,
We're here. We're queer. How you doing.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I am loving being in Florida. This is my second
favorite place, as you know, got a long workout in
this morning, rode my scooter to the grocery store for
some beer, scootered back with the beer.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
That's what you that's where you were. Yeah, and everyone
was so impressed because you were scooting with beer because.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I had like one foot on it. Yeah, it was cool.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I'm glad that that's filling your cup today.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, right to the brim. All right, you ready to
get into it.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I'm always ready to get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Hockey hot take. The hot take today is the ridiculous
rising cost of hockey in what is happening facts, So
let's break it down because it's wild.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
So in December, I believe it was both CCM and
Bauer basically go the route of private equity, which means
the parody the competitive nature between the two behemoths in
hockey apparel, outfitting, gear, et cetera, go for profit. Right,
(02:01):
Like now we're watching the bottom line and we've seen
Bauer repeatedly file for bankruptcy. We've seen, you know, hockey
become a really challenging sport because the cost because of
all the things. But now is really where we're in
our private equity era, and I'm quite literally I'm afraid
for the cost of hockey.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
It's two things, right, it's the cost of ice and
just being on the team is high. But then you
couple that with the rising cost of equipment to your point,
because of private equity. Another point, you know, all these tariffs,
all these taxes, we're taxing sports. It's why the legislation
is so important in the relationship there with the NHL
to continue to advocate for hockey like it's a big,
big problem. And if you tax sports, the already rising
(02:41):
cost of equipment is going to skyrocket. And if you
can't afford to play, then you can't afford to play,
and then the numbers will go down. We've already seen
a decline in viewership, and I think there's a direct correlation.
You want to watch what you want to do, and
if you aren't allowed to play hockey because your parents
can't afford it, you can't play.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I mean, we've seen some corel razy averages come out
in the past couple call it years, from twenty twenty
three to twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five. People
are averaging this is not a hard and fast but
averaging that it's going to cost fifteen thousand dollars to
have a single child playing the sport of hockey. That
(03:20):
is from all the things that you just said, gear ice,
specialized coaching, heaven forbid. They want to go do a
shooter tutor, heaven forbid. They need to get on the
ice for power skating, heaven forbid. Their friends all go
to the same hockey camp that sleep away. That's thirty
five hundred dollars, that has crappy pizza and not what
the kids need to fuel their bodies like that cost.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
That's the average though, right, Yeah, so that's considering kids
playing rec league, house league, kids playing high school hockey.
On the opposite end of that spectrum. Some places, it's
seventy five hundred bucks just to be on the team, right,
ten grand just to be on the team. Then you
got to buy all your equipment. Then you got to
pay for travel, you know, housing while you're traveling, food
while you're traveling, missing school.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
It's if hockey is inaccessible from every angle, right, it
doesn't feel like it's for so many communities. If it's
inaccessible from every angle and then carries the price tag
of twenty thousand dollars a year, it's the easiest no
for a parent, No, you can't play hockey. But yes,
(04:20):
you can play X, Y Z other thing right, insert
other option here, because it's not like we're talking about
something that you can't replace. Kids are young, you can
get them to love other things. The cost of tickets.
You want to bring your kid to the glass and
have them look at their favorite athlete, they can't do it.
Lower Bowl tickets for the Bruins. You're looking at an
(04:43):
average ticket per seat at five hundred bucks. That's not parking,
that's not transit to get into the game. That's not food,
that's not a jersey, that is nothing but your butt
in a plastic seat experiencing the game.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I agree with that. I think though, that the focus
at the top should be more on keeping kids in
the game, and there are a lot of programs that
are doing that right, a lot of the NHL teams.
You just saw the PBHL rollout in the New York market.
I'm not sure if others did as well, but they're
doing clinics at what I feel is a very reasonable
affordable price. I think it's like four eighty five or
(05:20):
five hundred bucks or something. You get equipment with that,
you get instruction, but then you go from you know,
five hundred bucks for eight weeks to learn to skate
and then it starts to add up. So it's trying
to find a way to get kids interested in the game.
Street hockey is a good way to get people interested
in hockey and then hope that you know, all the
powers that be at the top can find a way
to make it more affordable. I mean, hockey's always been expensive,
(05:43):
but it just is getting out of hand and at
some point we have to recognize that we're going to
demolish the sport if we prioritize profit over participation.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
There also is a humongous opportunity with NHL Street with
street hockey and looking at ways to hone your craft.
That doesn't mean two skates on ice, because two skates
on ice is incredibly expensive right off the jump. But
if we can start looking at like companies like Franklin
back in the day and still do but would give
(06:12):
a lot of that street hockey gear, would host clinics
to have gear out and market like street hockey puck,
street hockey sticks, giveaways for youth players. They worked with
the NWHL All Star Game in Boston that year that
you were the captain with Jill Dempsey and did a clinic,
paid for a clinic, paid the athletes, and also gave
out street hockey gear because people are realizing that the
(06:33):
ice part is a very expensive element and there's so
much of hockey that can be accomplished on sneakers. When
I look at the accessibility right and I think about
NHL Street, when I think about the NHL now moving
forward with all things accessibility, going to that event, listening
to DNA Lang, listening to all of these folks really
talk about how hockey at an accessibility standpoint creates dignity
(06:55):
for people.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Full ASL broadcast of.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
The Yeah, full ASL broadcast.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Outdoor Game is it was it four Nations or the
outdoor game?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It was four Nations. So we say all of this
to say, yes, hockey is so expensive and there are
certain like routes of privilege that allow you it to
have better access to it. But there are a lot
of people that are trying to be creative and innovative
to help fix that problem. And I think at the
end of it all is it's like, to your point,
(07:24):
let's not let the barrier to entry stop participation.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I mean, like I've joked, at the minute, I have
to buy a hockey stick. I'm done playing because we
just I've gotten them for freeze for so long. But
when we took the kids to Pure Hockey tother day,
I was like, what does it come with a guaranteed
full ride. I mean, yeah, you can always get used equipment. Well,
there's a lot of great programs hockey and Harlem is
one that comes to mind, but there's a lot of
great programs that try to make hockey more accessible and
(07:48):
keep kids in the game. You can go to play
it against sports and get used gear.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Score Boston is a great program. I think about the
Ranger to Learn to Play program, and again there could
be other teams that are doing it like this. When
I think specifical about the Rangers Learned to Pay program,
how they make a bag of gear accessible, the cost
that they do it, and how much they do in
the tri state all the way up through southern Connecticut,
Like you see junior Rangers everywhere, and I think that
(08:13):
that is such a beautiful thing, Like we have to
have these kind of people that care and inspire them
and also let them know that on these packs pock
we're going to talk about it. We're going to say
it's too expensive. We cannot lose viewership, and we need
young kids to care because hockey players are incredible people
and they learn at such a young age the discipline,
(08:34):
the camaraderie, the team, the locker room, like all of
these things that just create really well thought out human beings.
And I think for all those reasons, you know, hockey
up being the most popular, it creates a real grit.
I think hockey players are just built different and I'm
excited to watch how it grows. And I'm hesitant to
watch things go vc, but I'm excited because there's a
(08:54):
lot of really smart people pushing in the right direction.
You included pack, Like, I'm impressed by all the work
everyone's doing right now. More to come and more to
come on that. I'm passionate about it. But I do
want to kind of like switch gears into our check in.
(09:14):
You're burnt to a crisp, You're you're the color red,
all right, you're the color of lipstick, You're your cherry red.
So let's check in, Like, let's let's really vibe on that.
How you doing, girl ninety seven, woman, one day in
the sun, Jesus red as a cherry but Jesus as
happy as could be. Yes, you're as red as the
(09:35):
record button right now.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I'm not that red. I skipped the sun block on
the face and the arms on accident.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah, you, I sprayed your back and you said to me,
it's cold, I'll do it. I'm fine. I went to
the gym, I came back anywhere that I did not spray.
Is the color red?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Well, we also learned that you aren't the best spray applier. Ye,
shoulder blades.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Blame it on me.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Well, I'm in ninety seven. It's sunny. I get to
be outside all day every day. The kids are back
in school. I knew that was coming out out to
Benita Springs for changing my life.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Shout out to two days of daycare after a four
month hiatus.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, it's uh. I felt a little guilty yesterday actually,
but it got over that very quickly. Where are you at?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Got over that quite quickly. I have been on meetings
literally back to back all day long. So my brain
is a little fried. But I'm with you, like I've
got a light sweat. I feel good. I get the guilt, though,
I will say like I was the kind of like
Matt leave parent in this dynamic and going from maternity leave,
which is your sole job is to take care of
(10:42):
your child. Obviously recover and get well. But like I
would say, going from matt leave to then going back
to work and sending the kids away was one of
the hardest things I've ever done. And I think you
peeling back from hockey and getting fully into mom mode
and then putting them into school, I commend you because
as they're older, they have feelings, They tell you that
you hurt them, They like they just dig right.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Raylyn became like my little therapist.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
It's tough man, which.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Maybe isn't a good thing to put on the podcast,
but he has a four year old braid.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
So if that's really where we were, you'd be.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
We were a couple of weeks ago. I was in
a bad spot, had a little mental breakdown, started crying.
He came over and rubbed my back and he's like,
what's wrong. I was like, mama's just sad today. Why
are you sad? Well, because Mama's not playing hockey anymore
and that's hard for me. And he'd like lit up
and was like that's okay. Went downstairs. God, his hockey
bag comes upstairs. I'll play hockey with you, mama. So
(11:36):
he went to the pond and played hockey for like
two hours.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Probably so excited. I will say, though, he is very
intuitive and he's very compassionate, Like he knows.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
He's an EmPATH.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Kids, No, they know he's an EmPATH. So were you, though,
So like that is very nurture of you and him
to have that connection.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
I understand so much more Like I've been just kind
of taking time right to figure out what I want
to do. I don't have a ton going on most
days because I'm my day has been just spending time
with them and kind of making up for lost time.
But I got to the point where I was I
like would find myself being resentful because it was always
fun at some point in the day, but like there
were always also really hard parts of the day, and
(12:16):
I would find myself like resenting, like, Okay, why am
I doing this all day? And then you would have
a long day of work and then it would be
a tough bedtime and I would be like, well, I
just took care of them all day, and it's not
supposed to feel like that. Like it's a reason why,
like being a mom is the hardest job in the world,
but also it's supposed to be rewarding, and like you
finally were like, there's no reason that we can't get help.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
It's just I think the other thing, too, is like
that the comment of like the days are long, the
years are short, couldn't be more true. The days are
so long. I love my kids. But like if someone says, oh,
do you like having kids, that answer changes on a
daily basis. I'm like, no, yeah, don't recommend it. But
like at the end of the year and I'm like
at their birthday and I'm like, look at all you've
(12:57):
accomplished for an entire year. Yes, you're easy, but it's
just like hard.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Taking that like asking for what I needed right and
getting that little bit of a break now, Like I'm
so excited that we're going put putting. I'm so excited
to go get them from school and go put putt. Yeah,
and it's gonna be so much more enjoyable.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
We all are like everyone's a better mom when they've
had what they need.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Oh, I thought you meant a better mom than you.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
No, no, no, no, Well listen, we're not making bold claims here.
No one is competing for that title. We are both
incredible moms. But it is like I think that's where
like this leans into our next conversation so well, but
like asking for what you need, building your community, like
understanding what resources really help you. But nothing is as
clear as when you are a mom and you need support,
(13:39):
and when you're a mom and you feel ostracized, or
you feel lonely, or you go through a traumatic life event.
So next is a conversation that's near and dear to
my heart. We talked to Ali Kreeger for a thousand reasons.
She is an Olympia and a world champion. She's a
change maker. She's innovated the world of women's sports so
that you and I can have more and better. But
(14:01):
she's also a mom, and she's had a tough time
and she found people that really elevate her and make
her back into her best self. So I'm happy that
you're going through this journey. I'm really proud of you
for feeling comfortable to ask for the right support. I'm
not the best at it, but in our next conversation
we learn how Ali does it. So let's jump into it.
(14:33):
I am so excited we are starting today with one
of my favorite people, which is high honor. Actually, Ali,
you should feel very proud, you know what. Thank you,
But Ali Kreeker joins us today. I've loved the moments
when we can be at events together and have that
like immediate kinship with anybody. I've felt it so strongly
with you. So you are absolutely a mom, a badass,
(14:55):
a soccer star, all the things. Welcome to the pod.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Well, thanks for having me. Im'm so honored to here,
and the feelings are very, very mutual.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I laugh because like, so we go to these events
and like my new thing with Maddie is like she's
decided we're not friends with people that we're friends with,
and so I have to remind her that we're friends.
So we're like laughing and we're having this whole like
Keiki when we were at the athlete Ally event, but
we just saw you and immediately the tables like hysterically laughing.
We're saying all the things, doing all the things, and
(15:25):
I think in those moments we have to like pinch
ourselves that hockey is getting to the place that we
can start to be like equals and friends. So we
appreciate your friendship but also excited that we can now
officially be not fangirls whilst fangirling every time we see you.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yeah, I mean didoh?
Speaker 5 (15:40):
But I feel like Explorer brings people together and then
it's just your choice to take it where you want
to take it. After that, it's like, Okay, thank you,
you know, hockey and soccer for bringing us together.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
But now like the real fun starts.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Yes, when we unleash the children.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I do have to throw some brief shade because I
first met Ali back when you dropped a puck for
us and you came in and I'm glad you asked.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
No we met before that, really no, before that on
the MSG thing, Yeah, oh yeah at MSG.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, when I was like, I have no idea what
I'm doing. I'm terrified, madam commercial break. I looked at her.
I was like, I was like, help, we have never
done this before. She was like what. Had a conversation.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
She's like, Bave, don't let them put makeup on my face.
Oh oh my god.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
But we when you came to the hockey game, you
were like, I'm what do I do? And we were like,
you just dropped the puck and you were going to
toss it up in the air was like that you
have to tell me.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Yeah, of course. I was like, I don't know what
to do. Do you like spin it?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Like you just drop it? Yeah, you just drop it.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
And then and you like tossed it up and were
like no, just drop no, just just just let it go.
You crushed it. Though you crushed it, you helped our
attendants that game.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I will say that's like the number one thing when
people come to be like an honored guest at a
hockey game and they have to drop the puck, It's
like the most stressful thing because hockey's in such a
small bubble. It's like, what does that mean? Drop the puck?
Do I throw the puck? Do I What do I do?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
But no one was even helping me kind.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Of walk out there. I was like do I stop
at the end of the carpet, Like I don't? Do
I go on the like I don't know where to go,
which way do I turn? Just where do I look?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I didn't even know penguin slot.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
And then and then the two captains I guess that
were out there were like okay, like they were looking
at the camera and they weren't even facing me, And
I was just standing there smiley, like what's going on?
And they were like posing for the photo like normal,
and I was just like, and they go, you have
to drop it now, you gotta drop it now, like look,
and I was like, okay, then I dropped it and
(17:33):
that's yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
It worked out.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
The rest is history.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Yeah, it's fine, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
It's it's amazing. And honestly, like, I love to kind
of start with this idea because not foreign to you
is sport and soccer and being literally one of the
most incredible soccer players in you know, history.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Oh things.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
It didn't come from just like the internal will twin
and internal like I love soccer so much, it came
from somewhere else. So it was kind of inspired by
something else. Tell us a little little bit about the
connection that you have to make soccer more than a
sport for you.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
Yeah, I love this beautiful game so much, and I
was so passionate about it at such a young age.
I just wanted to be, you know, around my brother
all the time. Whatever he was doing, I wanted to
do because one, I liked him a lot, and you know,
I just was so happy to play and hang out
with him all the time. But My dad really introduced
me to soccer at such a young age, around five
or six, because he also played soccer, but he was
(18:28):
he lived a super athletic, healthy lifestyle. My mom as well,
like they were both athletes in college, and you know,
my dad went on and played pro a little bit
here and there, and then eventually just went into coaching.
So by that time I was born, I was you know,
that was just immediate, and that was just kind of,
you know, the next step for me just staying active
and trying to live this healthy lifestyle. He you know,
(18:50):
introduced me to the sport, and then my brother loved it,
so then I wanted to play it. My brother and
I played on the indoor team and he coached that
team called the Cosmos, and from then on, I think
at age seven was when I got kind of got
more serious about playing club and then my dad ended
up being my coach, and so he originally introduced me
to the game at that age and molded me into
(19:10):
such a good player at a young age because he
was actually the best teacher of the game that I've
ever had, and I played, you know, obviously at every level,
and he still to this day is probably the best
coach that I've ever had playing the sport, and he
had our team from age seven to age eighteen, and
so throughout there he took I think eight of us
stayed together through that time period, and I think at
(19:31):
least I think over half the team went to Division
one college and was able to get scholarships and play.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
I think I was the only one that really went on.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Maybe another had played overseas, but I think I was
the only one that you know, continued after college to
play professionally consistently. But that just goes without saying. I
think I was set up for success at the very beginning, luckily.
And then we shared that bond. First of all that
father daughter bomb, but also just the love of the game.
And he was such a proud dad, and you know,
(20:01):
soccer was just something that we shared and that we
loved together, and he introduced me to it, and so
I appreciated that from him, And yeah, he was my
hero growing up. You know, just how much he loved
the game and how much he taught me, and we
had that really good connection, so driving to and from
practice and you know, sharing these little moments together.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
I'll never forget.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
He hasn't missed really a tournament over the years and
has always been at the professional games, and he was
at some of my college games, and you know, he
just was always a part of my soccer journey and
someone who I could always lean on. And so from
age seven until now, it's like you know, it was,
it was a dream to have him in my corner
the entire time.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Thank you for sharing that one too. It's so refreshing
to hear you share that story because you and I
actually have a lot of similarities.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
My dad very similarly.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
He wasn't the coach, he was the team manager, but
he helped build the program into a place that a
lot of people wanted to come play. And so like
same thing. We had lots of girls go d one,
several went on to play in the pros. But my
dad always made it fun, like there was never that pressure,
never like if I didn't play well, there was a
punishment or like write the expectation. And I think that
(21:11):
that's just refreshing because you look at so many kids
now and how much pressure there is in everything m
and like I can't even understand it as a parent
because I just had similarly to you, like the world's
most supportive dad. It made me want to be better.
It made me love what I was doing right versus
having that like crushing feeling of anxiety and pressure all
the time. Right.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
And there were sometimes that I don't know if you
know you had spoken to your dad about this either,
even just like taking the manager hat off and just
being a dad sometimes because I struggled with my dad
sometimes not all the time that I was like, Dad,
I just need my dad right now.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
I don't need my coach.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
And so if you could take the coaching hat off
right now and just be my dad, that would be great.
But the advice you would give me, and maybe you
had the same experience, but I have taken it through
my entire career, my entire life so far, and this journey,
and it's helped me, you know, with just different aspects
of life, not just with sport. And so I'm super
grateful for those little moments that we shared, and I'm
sure you had similar with your dad. But yeah, I'll
(22:10):
never forget. I'll never forget that. And unfortunately he passed
this past year and from Alzheimer's and dementia.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Unfortunately I don't have that anymore, that.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
Phone call at the end of a game being like,
you know, because it was the past four years that
you know, since twenty nineteen World Cup, he started to
kind of you know, yeah, say some weird things and
kind of start that process of you know, the cognitive
decline was pretty rapid after that. So besides the point,
I missed that little phone call that I could calm
(22:40):
up after a game and be like, which, so what'd
you think? You know, what were your thoughts? You know,
and getting feedback and stuff. So I really missed that
from him, and obviously to share now more time together
and the retirement and all of that, and obviously his
grandkids who he didn't really get a chance to know
very well. So I miss him every singley. But what
(23:01):
he gave me was a tool to understand how to
work hard and be successful at something, and I'm forever
grateful for that.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Well, so then does that answer the age old debate
are you going to coach the kids or are you
gonna let that be someone else's job.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
I don't know if I could allow that to be
someone else's job, because I think I'm gonna be like, yeah, yeah,
someone someone I'll just show up on the sideline, have
my little wine cooler and be fine.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
No.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
But I think eventually when I get into it, I'm like, Okay.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
What are you doing over there? What are they teaching them?
Speaker 3 (23:31):
What are they I always say, I'm like, I want
to coach them when they're good? Is that bad? Y?
I don't want to teach our kids to skate. I
think I'm gonna not like it and not like them.
I think I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna be like,
just do it. I don't get Yeah, but like, once
they're good, I can't ignore the x's and o's.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
What is wrong with you?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
I don't know. I think maybe it can be the extra,
like you know, after practice, maybe I'll.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Be the skills coach, the bonus.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
And the rides home to and from. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
So I love that And I think that like that
infuses so much of how you parent, and just like,
like take the coaching hat off is such an important question,
especially as you become a parent, and like you make
decisions as a parent, and then you try to figure
out how to navigate all the roles and naturally, like
you said, like he took you from eight to eighteen
and then you had to fly and naturally he becomes
that third kind of person in your life. But there's
(24:24):
so many different moments like hoisting a World Cup, winning
with the NWSL, with with Gotham, Like, there's so many
moments in your life that you really feel like, you know,
you've kind of been at the top, or movements, equal pay,
you know, all the things. What's the one that stands out?
If you can, like you know, right now you're having
a person paint a portrait, what is that moment for you,
the one that you choose.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
Everyone would think like championships and this and that, But
I think going through such an incredible experience with a
group of women, I am most proud of equal pay period.
Nothing I'll ever beat that. But I think if I
could choose one thing, it's just building like flung friendships
with people who have gone through the same thing and
the same experience and had endured the same amount mentally, physically,
(25:07):
emotionally in the sport and in the environment that we
were put in for so long or that we chose
that to be in. And so I think for me
now that goes way beyond football, That goes way beyond
the sport. And I'm so grateful that I have people
in my life day to day that have, you know,
(25:28):
kind of gone through the same stuff and kind of
have a good understanding and really understand me on most importantly,
on a really deep level.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
To your point about equal pay, Like, have you ever
stopped to truly think about what you did for not
just soccer, but women's sport, Like, directly, I am a
byproduct of those efforts, because no one cared at all
about women's hockey until people started caring more and more
about women's sport as a whole. And that started with
the US women's national team. Right, you guys were underpaid, undervalued,
(25:56):
and you were performing. You deserve to get paid, right,
But not even the active receiving payment itself, just the
conversation that it sparked in the eyes, and then people
got interested and then people started watching basketball more like
it created a whole big movement that then allowed us
to have a better opportunity for investors, et cetera. Have
you stopped to like think about that truly and like
you have not made what the generation behind you will
(26:18):
make because of your efforts. I'm sure that's frustrating, but
there are so many people who owe their moment now
to people like you, like it's crazy.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
I have stopped and think about it.
Speaker 5 (26:29):
I've you know, you always want to leave the game
better than when you found it, and you always want to,
you know, just be a part of something bigger than yourself. Really,
I never signed up just to make the money. I
never signed up just to you know, win championships. I mean, yeah,
is that all great and grand? Of course that's the goal,
right to just be successful and to win. And I'm
(26:50):
also addicted to winning, so that was, you know, helpful
along the way. But I think ultimately this was always
supposed to be because the players who came before us
had you know, created an easier path for us to
kind of come into and then and then maybe a
lighter space to be a part of. And now our
job was to do the same. And I think when
you see all these nil deals too in college, like
(27:12):
that was our job too. This is like the cycle
that is supposed to be for the future generations. You're
supposed to just have it a little bit easier, a
little bit lighter than we did. And then that makes
us feel better because the work that we put in
actually mattered, and I mean it meant something, and so
I think this was always the process, but it needed,
I think a group of women who are really determined
(27:33):
and willing to take that risk to even lose their job,
to you know, fight for more. And if we didn't
do it individually and as a group, then we weren't
sure who was going to do it. And we were
sick and tired of winning and putting in all the
work and just not getting what we deserved and not
feeling respected. And it was about damn time that we
(27:55):
stepped up and we you know, spoke on each and
every one of our platforms, and then we spoke on
our platform together, and you obviously, like, you know, you
have more power in numbers, and I think that we
knew that we needed to just step up and speak.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Out and it was time.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
And I think that we all were put in that
same place, in that same environment because of that specific reason.
And so when I look back, I am most proud
of that because we multi tasks very well. We were
fighting for equal pay off the field, and it wasn't
just about us. It was about women across all industries
and all sports. We weren't just you know, selfishly thinking oh,
(28:34):
how can we put ourselves in a position to get
more money and to be recognized more and to be
valued and appreciated more. No, it was actually about you know,
other sports, other women fighting for themselves in their own workplace.
And on the other hand, we had to win so
that we had our employer listening to what we were
wanting to change and impact in a positive way. So
(28:55):
not only did we have to you know, win World
Cups and Olympics and all the things and every tournament
that we you know, were a part of, because that
was the only reason that they would listen, but we
also had to fight.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
And it took.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Hours and hours and days and months and years of
litigation in federal court to actually come to the conclusion
that we are now, which is still not there right
Like we've conquered a little piece of the of the puzzle,
but it's not you know, yet complete, and the work
will never be done, which we all know that. But
at least we've gotten somewhere and we've improved to a
(29:29):
space where now you can build off of that. So
now we have like a good foundation, I would say,
but that doesn't necessarily mean we don't you know, want
more than what we fought for But yeah, to your point,
I am most proud of that. But I see so
many improvements and the standard is being you know, raised
higher and higher every year, and that's that in itself.
(29:51):
I feel like we've accomplished, you know, something good.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
I remember downloading Instagram my junior year of college, being like,
oh my god, let me post a picture of my
beer cup. Like what and now pagebackers makes a million
dollars on X y Z whatever, right, like or who
knows how much it could be even more than that,
But like we see these athletes creating generational wealth, buying properties, investing,
like like we didn't even have Instagram, Like this is
(30:17):
a short hockey stick climb for women's sports. And to
make people care, like you think about your own college
sports career, Like to make people care in that moment,
they had to be in the arena, they had to
be at the field, They did to be at trained
they just see you put your boots on. That's not
the case anymore. You know, the scale that we can
have as female athletes, and what equal pay did to
(30:38):
shine a light on it, and then what like social
media in general does.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
It's crazy to think about.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
And I'm like gosh, did we miss it by have
you know, a handful of years And.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
I'm like, maybe we should just go back and redo.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
It, But no, that's what's supposed to happen, right, It's
like they wouldn't have what they have if.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
We didn't put in the work.
Speaker 5 (30:57):
You're right, and I can say that confident, and so
I think, I know, I don't mean just me, but
I'm in we like you know, us in our generation,
fighting for what we do every day and hopefully by
the time we're you know, old and gray and can
barely walk because of our knees a hurting and our
back's a hurting.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Which is only like a few years for some of us, Allie, it's.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Only wheelchairs, like next year.
Speaker 5 (31:22):
But hopefully they'll be able to retire once they're once
they're done, and they can just live off of whatever
they make.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
That'll be amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
So to that point, you're at like the peak of
your career, right you You've been to an Olympics, World Cup,
were playing for Florida. You decide to become a mom.
How do you go from knowing that you want to
have kids to making a decision to do it right
in the middle of your career and how how I mean,
how did it change? How do you balance that?
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Yeah, a great question.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
I think I was already about thirty six thirty seven, right,
and then COVID hit. It was right after Olympic qualifying
tournament in the final where we just had one against Canada.
I think we beat them three three one or three nothing,
and then we were going to go to the Olympics
that year, obviously in twenty twenty, and unfortunately a month
later after that tournament or even I think we were
(32:12):
heading home from that tournament wondering what was going to
happen because COVID was there, and I think it just
everything shut down, The league shut down, and then I
went home with my ex wife and ended up deciding
to have kids because I was already at the stage
where I was like, I don't want to get pregnant
and then try to come back, because I still enjoyed
playing and I still knew I had some more playing
(32:34):
to give, and I wanted to continue playing because I
wasn't yet satisfied really with the way that my career
had gone in Orlando, and not that I was planning
on ever leaving, but I just wanted to play a
little bit longer to see what else I could do
and what else I could win once again. You know,
I was addicted to winning. So I decided with my ex, like, hey,
(32:56):
let's just put in our names for you know, the
adoption and see what happens. We have a little bit
of time now and maybe it'll take like two three years.
We don't know, you know, that's what somebody had had
told us, like, hey, we put on our name, but
it took a while, so maybe you want to do
that and by the time you're done, maybe you know,
you'll be able to receive a child from the agency
(33:17):
and whatever. So we had gone through the process and
I was in touch with the home study officer and
you know, made a whole book for the match to happen,
if and when that was ever going to be. Well,
we get a phone call like not even like three
weeks later, and they're like, hey, so we have a
(33:37):
potential birth mom, and do you want to put in
your name for like, you know, the pot basically, and
you know, the way they do it is that the
birth mom has to look through a group of families
and then they choose and then it's also like our
decision if we want to match with them. So I
(33:58):
was like, okay, well if there's like five six other
families hopefully, but you know, there's potential that she could
choose somebody else, so let's just do it.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
Why not. Well, then they're in the Fall Series.
Speaker 5 (34:10):
I get a call after the last game of the
Fall Series and we get a call and the lady's like, okay,
are you sitting down?
Speaker 4 (34:16):
And I was like no way.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
So this happened within like three to four months from
May until I think like October or something like that,
and I was so shook that that we matched with her.
So then we just agreed and Sloan came February twenty
twenty one, and we only had a few months to.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Like prep so we were like, oh shit, like you
know this it was wild.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
I was like, this is our last this is our
last New Year's, this is our last Christmas.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
They're like, let's follow it out because.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
You know what I mean, yes, is we're gonna have,
you know, a family of three soon, so like, let's
figure it out and just enjoy another vacation before you know,
the baby comes because we didn't know what to expect.
And then the second adoption was just we wanted to,
you know, add Ocean to the family, and we always
told the adoption officer, hey, in the future. This was
(35:06):
after we like had moved to Gotham and New Jersey
and so that following year and yeah, it was he
was born in Philly and we get a call and
because we had to just keep us in mind and
we'll see where we're at in the future, like maybe
we'll add to the family, or maybe Ali's gonna get
pregnant whatever, and so, yeah, Ocean, he was born in Philly,
(35:28):
and I think that was one of the main reasons
why we ended up, you know, coming to Jersey.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
That's what we always said. And I remember my ex.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Saying, you know, our family's not complete, and we were
both really excited that it was a boy. And so
we brought Ocean into the family. And he's been like
so incredibly joyful and his disposition is so like friendly
and loving and kind. I mean Sloan as well. I
mean they're just two happy, fun, loving kids, great personally,
(36:00):
and I couldn't be happier with them. And I'm just
so proud to be their mom and that they chose
us too. So yeah, it's it's been great. Obviously you
you both understand how busy it is.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Yea too under two and like as a choice to
under two is like I laugh because like it's it's
a choice for everybody, right, like to a degree. But
like I said to Maddie, I'm like, I'm never walking
into a doctor's office again. I'm never gonna do it.
I'm not going because I can't sleep. We can't do
But like it is that moment that you get the
call and you're like, wait, no, we're pregnant. I think
(36:34):
you posted that time in the hospital, like that first
yeah moment where you're just like you're just that that
baby's mom. Like I love I love that you shared that,
and like when you go through that process like you've
won a thousand things, Is there any moment that compares?
Speaker 5 (36:50):
No, I I think this is the hardest job in
the world. I never thought I had this much love
in me, Like I I love my kids, it's to death.
And I didn't realize like I could love someone or
two kids so much. And I'm so happy that I
discovered that. You know, when Sloan was born, and then
(37:11):
obviously Ocean coming next, It's like Yeah, you have a
whole new chamber of love opening up in your body.
It's like really difficult to explain unless you've experienced it
being a mom or a parent, I should say, because
I didn't obviously give birth to them, but I love
them just as much and I just can't imagine my
(37:32):
life without them. I don't even remember my life before,
you know what I was. Yeah, Like I was like,
what was I doing? Just watching like Netflix and egging
on the couch, like eating snacks.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Now your life looks a little bit different, right, Like
you're not You're not playing anymore. You're still doing all
the things. But how hard was it to balance like
that first transition when you came back in how hard
was it to balance your training with being a mom
and trying to navigate that.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
It was really difficult because I only took two weeks
off and we had I think twelve weeks that we
could have taken off, but I only took two weeks
because it was in pre season. I wanted to play,
and I felt like we had the support and help
from the family, so we were able to get back
to work quickly. And it was difficult because we I
think we had a night nanny probably like three nights
(38:30):
a week, but the other nights obviously was us. I
think that was difficult. Not sleeping. I think a lot
of parents can relate, but also having to then go
perform and you know, at your job, which is super physical,
I mean emotional and mentally too, but you know, physically
it's challenging. So if you don't have you're not sleeping properly,
you're not able to perform your best. So you just
try to like push through. We had all the help
(38:52):
we could get, and thankfully because you know, you know,
nights before the game, i'd have to have you know,
I'd have to be able to sleep, but some nights
that wasn't an option, and so as you know, like
you just got to do it. And I think traveling
with the kids and the team was awesome because they
could socialize, they could get used to, you know, just
on the go lifestyle. You know, everything was just kind
(39:15):
of thrown at them at once, and they're very resilient
and the way that they you know, have just like
navigated life in this lifestyle that we have has been
really brilliant and they're thriving now as little kids and
daycare and I think that gave them a lot of
you know, good tools as a foundation to really you know,
(39:37):
create a safe space and a good environment for them
to grow up in.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
The part about you is a mom that I loved.
We were at an event. We were at an athlete
ali event, and we're all talking and immediately walks up
a mom friend couple that you are friends with, that
was your date right air go date to this event.
And that's the kind of community. It's not always hey,
watch my kids. Hey, you know, like you're part of
(40:05):
my village, like I need something. Sometimes it's like you're
part of my village. You're my family now, Like you're
my chosen family now. And so you know, through this
whole process of the team moving and all the things
like you've created or you guys moving and you know,
bringing kids into the world, you've created a network of
people that really support each other. Like meeting your mom
(40:28):
friends and like we talk about mom friends as such
like an arbitrary like, oh my mom friends did this thing,
but your mom friends are like so solid and like
that part of your life and being able to share
that broadly with an event like athlete Ally, which was
not a close group it was like, you know, a
bunch of donors, people, et cetera. That was so fun.
That's like, like objectively a very cool mom thing to do.
(40:51):
And so like, how does that village show up for
each other? How have you built that community? And why
is it so important to you?
Speaker 5 (40:57):
It's important because it's like life after too. I want
to make friends outside of soccer, and I think community
is huge, especially the lifestyle that we live, and I
think having that support. I feel like I should just
give a shout out to our kids because they're the
ones who brought us together really at school pickup, Like
I was like.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
My kids making my friends for me.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
Would be friends?
Speaker 5 (41:17):
Yeah, right, and I and sometimes you know, parent friends
might not be as cool and you're like, okay, I
know our kids are friends.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Were like are you cool? Like are we going to
be cool? And a vibe and it ended up working out.
Speaker 5 (41:28):
Yeah. I got the vibe right away and I was like, cool,
let's like have a play date at the park. And
that's how it kind of began. This happened kind of
towards the end of last season, before I'd retired, and
I think the very first game they actually came to
was my retirement game in October, so they like hit
the tail end of the season. But besides that, we've
grown a really beautiful friendship over this amount of time
(41:49):
since last year. It's been about a year, and I'm
so grateful that I have them in my corner. And
then I met other queer families who attend the same school,
and so then and they know other queer families and
we kind of meet up on the weekends and hang out,
and it's really enjoyable to have that outside of, you
know what, I'm so used to just in the sports world,
(42:09):
and so I can like lean on them and I
know that I have them in my corner, and we
can go to events together.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
We do dinners together, we do play dates together.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
They come over for you know, happy hours, and they
come over on the weekends, we'll go to the playground.
I mean, we're just always active and always in communication.
And I think just having that community, like you said,
and that chosen family is really healthy. Because I've had
to now invest I didn't realize I was going to
be here longer than the two year contract, but the
way the things happen my personal life obviously has kind
(42:38):
of changed that path for me. But I now have
invested in the community here, and I've invested in my
life here, and I've invested in my kids' lives here
because they are really happy, they're healthy, they they're making
friends and you know, I'm making friends with the parents,
and so it's just such a great community and I'm
super grateful that it's all working out, you know, really well.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
Yeah, I mean, it's not to ignore the elephant in
the room, but there was a massive shift in your
family dynamic, you know, and what felt like was a
done picture now is a totally different picture. And so,
you know, you go through divorce, you do so in
an incredibly probably exposing public way, and you have to
shepherd to babies through that and I think, like community,
(43:19):
all the things are that safe space for you. But
as you go through that, and you know, there's a
thousand questions, there's a thousand things. How do you navigate something?
Because we always kind of play this devil's advocate of
we're still people, right, but we have the privilege of
the pressure of being famous. Is the word it's a
hard it's a weird word for us all to use,
(43:40):
but it's public figure, public figure, whatever the thing is
you go through this big thing kind of like what
is that? Like, what does that spin you into and
where do you kind of find that path through it?
Speaker 5 (43:53):
Well, firstly, yeah, thank you for the question. I'm in
such a better place and I'm so looking forward to
the next phase, the new era, a new era. And
this year has been so so difficult because there's three
major things that happen. Obviously, retirement, my wife left, and
my dad passed. So I really I was really in
(44:15):
like a dark place just trying to navigate all the
things kind of thrown at me, and I tried to
stay busy to you know, try to overcome everything.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
But yeah, it's been such a shift.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
And I think I've said this before, but the universe
sent me a gift and now I just I'm taking
that gift and I'm doing everything I can to stay
on the path that I want to stay on because
I have other passions, I have other goals that I
want to achieve, and other dreams that I want for
myself and my family. So I'm tackling those one day
at a time. And you know, everything happens for a reason,
(44:45):
and I didn't know in the moment why that had
happened and why this was a huge eruption basically right
at the end of my career. But I'm seeing little
I guess reasons here and there and moments that I'm like, ah, okay,
this makes sense. As a dust is settling, I see
that this is, you know, what's best for me moving
(45:07):
forward in my life. And I'm super happy and I'm
super grateful that my kids are happy and healthy and
still having fun once again, they are super resilient. Yeah,
we're doing the best we can and providing them just
with all the happiness and love that they deserve. And
so that's been really wonderful and out of such a
shitty situation, right, I never thought this was going to
be my life. So I've had to definitely pivot. But
(45:29):
I'm onto bigger and better things and so, you know,
it's been really hard. It's been really hard, but I've
taken that because I don't want to allow that to
define who I am. And I obviously think that it
wasn't a community divorce, it's not a community relationship. Yes,
did we want people to feel good about seeing, you know,
(45:51):
an authentic couple together to really help with more visibility
in LGBTQ community and really make people feel like they
could love whoever they want to love and be happy
with ever lifestyle they choose. Of course, like that Thatubt's
definitely the goal. But the goal was never to have
a public discourse about a separation and a divorce and
(46:13):
one most importantly about my kids right Two, no one's business,
quite frankly. And three I'm actually like pretty private about
that aspect of my life because of this specific reason.
And to give people a platform to talk shit about me,
my kids, any parties involved, like that's.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Just was not the goal.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Thank you for sharing all that. I truly you are
one of the most just genuine people that I've ever met,
ever spoken to. Every time I talk to you, I
learned something from you. So thank you for sharing all
of that. I know that someone else is going to
hear it. It's going to help them. And you mentioned
also bigger and better things that you're moving on to.
I've seen some of it. You're doing a lot of
(46:57):
cool stuff right now, and can you tell us a
little bit about out kind of what some of those
things are. One of which, if you don't mind, just
your work with athlete ally and other LGBTQ plus advocacy programs.
You do a lot of incredible work in that space.
It's more important now than ever, So I'd love if
you could talk to us a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
Yeah. So obviously with athlete Ally, I've been an ambassador
since I think twenty fifteen. Yeah, since twenty fifteen, I
think I've been ambassador with athlete Ally, and that's just
like a no brainer for me. I would love to
continue the work for years to come. Whenever they want
to have me, I'm there and just spreading awareness throughout
our league, more specifically just with the NWSL, because that's
(47:36):
the sport that I've played, soccer obviously, and I think
that we really need more visibility in the game day
in and day out, and so that's why I've been
trying to be a staple within that. And then I'm
also working as ESPN analysis for specifically women's soccer, and
I have a women's soccer show every Tuesday night, which
is so great because I love to give females that
(47:57):
platform to be able to just be recognized and to
feel valued and appreciate it and talk about the sport.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
That we all love.
Speaker 5 (48:04):
And because the game is growing in such a positive
direction and because people are just you know, wanting to
be a part of it now, and it's kind of
a movement and such as a moment, right, So I
want to stay on that, and I want to continue
telling these stories and interview players who you know, have
really impacted the game or are currently impacting the game
in such a beautiful way in a positive direction. So
(48:25):
I'm just also an ambassador with Gotham and I just
want to bring the community in more and recognizing what
more can be done parallel to soccer and parallel to
the NWSL, and how we can collab more and get
more people into the seats to celebrate the game that
we love, and also build more relationships with the community
(48:47):
and kind of be that liaison between the community and
the club and then also the coaching staff and the
front office staff to the team, to the players physically.
Speaker 4 (48:54):
I also want to help.
Speaker 5 (48:55):
And mentor a lot of the younger players that come
along into the club. So there's a position there that
when I where I go to events or we'reever going
to speak engagements, I try to bring up Gotham and
just talk about it, you know, because I don't know,
if a lot of people really know there's there's a
team that here exists, and so I think just kind
of doing that. So those are like my three main gigs.
And then along with that, I'm building something that I
(49:16):
can't yet talk about, but yeah, it's gonna be, yeah,
really really great, something that I've personally wanted to do
for a long time. So that's going to be announced
within you know, the next few months.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
I'm obsessed to see you win is such a beautiful thing.
And and like there's all the wins that are public
and known in all the things, but there's also like
the little wins that you have on a daily basis,
like when Whyland doesn't pee his pants? Like I've won
forever and it's the most amazing day ever, because like
sometimes the kid just doesn't want to stop playing. I'm like,
you could stop, could hit the bathroom, and then you
(49:50):
could just jump right back in. It's no big deal.
But I love that that we can also tie in
some like serious mom wins, so like what's happening in
your house, Like what are Sloane Ocean doing? What's a
win that you're like, the kids aren't getting this thing,
but we're getting there. We're moving in the right direction.
Speaker 5 (50:05):
I think the way that they're using their words has
been incredible. I think they've been thriving in school, in
the school that they're at, so I think just communicating
and telling me what they want. Even Ocean at you know,
almost two and a half, like he's really expressing himself
with using his words now, and they say please and
thank you, and they're they're just like super disciplined, and yeah,
do they have their moments. Of course, like Ocean he's
(50:28):
just gonna run anywhere and you're just gonna have to
go chase him, like it's just it's a scene. But
Sloane really now is like they're just really kind of
in the self discovery phase where they're really understanding themselves
a little bit more and what they want, what they
don't want. And I appreciate that. And then also Sloan
is almost fully potty trained. We've really struggled at that beginning,
and I know a lot of parents kind of still
that she still wears her overnight diapers, which I think
(50:49):
she'd probably do it'stil she's twenty.
Speaker 3 (50:51):
That's what I decided.
Speaker 4 (50:53):
It was just totally fine. It's normal, but yeah, no judges.
Speaker 5 (50:57):
But she's been peeing on the on the toilet consistently
and saying, Mommy, I gotta go pee. And then as
soon as she she says that, we go and she
peace and so it's like such a win and I'm
so proud of her. And Ocean now is wanting to
start yes, because he just he's heard do it, and
so who knows how that's gonna go. That thing's gonna
go everywhere, but you know it's gonna be a real treat.
But I think now those small winds, I think, like
(51:19):
you said, and just seeing them grow up and really
kind of discover themselves at different phases and stages of
their childhood is really really cool.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
I love a home win. I love a home win
when you're like you feel like you're like like out
on the front lines and other things in your life
and you're like, I did not Harlan kissed Madison this
morning goodbye, And sometimes Harlan wants to just slap her, right,
but like she got a kiss today, So I'm like
leaving with Harlan in my arms, like we've won today.
Mama's on like not on the like abuse train, She's
(51:48):
on the kiss. Mom loved her train, So we're a
okay in the packer house.
Speaker 5 (51:53):
Yeah, I mean, Sloan always loves to kiss Ocean goodbye
when he walks into his classroom because I take her
on the other side and it's really sweet and she's like, oh,
shin wai, you didn't give us a hug and a kiss,
and it's like, you know, she's like holding him accountable.
And then he comes back out and he's like, yeah,
I forgot, you know, but that I can relate to that.
It's really really sweet, and yeah, it's definitely a win.
(52:15):
So we always finish every episode the exact same way, okay,
And we finished with a question, okay, which is what
is the best piece of advice that you have received,
or maybe didn't receive, but wish you had about being
a mom. I think the best advice I received was
from my dad. My dad always said, as a parent,
I never wanted to tell you what to do or
(52:35):
how to do it, but I wanted to give you
the tools fore you to figure it out for yourself.
And I appreciated that along the way because that's exactly
what I've done and I'm now, you know, doing that
with my kids, and I think that's just a really
great piece of advice from a parent to another parent.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
I love that so much. I think so often we
hear like kind of the same, like lean on your people,
do your things, but like, there's things that just stand
out about certain parents. And as you explain your dad
to start the episode, and as you kind of leave
us with that nugget, it's the most perfect culmination of
the imprint that he's left on your life and what
you bring into parenting and motherhood and honestly just leadership
(53:15):
in general. So thank you for breaking down some walls
with us talking about all the things, and also just
being yourself. You're such a light, and so this has
been quite enjoyable. We are excited for whatever the new
hot thing that's coming out is. We are all waited
on bated breath. So I'm excited you're killing it and everything.
(53:36):
So thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 5 (53:38):
I really look up to you both as well, and
just appreciate everything you've done and give into your own sports.
And yeah, it's nice to just have fellow about us
women to ride this wave with.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
And that's all we have today.
Speaker 4 (53:53):
Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
I'm Aya Packer and I'm Madison Packer, and this is
These Packs Puck.
Speaker 3 (54:02):
These Packs Puck is a production of iHeart Women's Sports
in Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
It's hosted by us Madison and Anya Packer. Emily Meronoff
is our awesome senior producer and story editor. We were
mixed and mastered by Mary Doo. Our executive producers are
Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz, and Ali Perry.
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