September 16, 2025 • 37 mins
Everyone is going back to school, including college athletes. Join the Packers in a discussion about the ways the D1 recruitment process has changed drastically since their collegiate careers. The two also share their wildly different recruitment experiences and provide advice to kids and parents who might be in the weeds of this process now. At the end of the day, Madison and Anya are proof that it doesn’t matter where you start, it’s how much work you’re willing to put in.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, everyone, Welcome to these packs puck. I'm Madison Packer
and I'm Anya Packer.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Madison and I are both former pro hockey players. We
met through hockey and fell in love, and now we're
married with two awesome toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
These days, we're opening up about the chaos of our
daily lives, between the juggle of being athletes, raising kids.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
And all the messiness in between.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So buckle the puck up because there is a lot
to talk about.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Hey, Anya, Hi Packy, how you doing. Oh I'm alive,
and well how are you doing? Good? Good? Good? It's
hot in this house today, Say.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, I feel so amazing. I love when the house
is warm. You know what I like the windows open.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, it's like seventy eight degrees outside. Yeah, good, it's
nice and toast means it's at least eighty inside. Go outside,
then I have a sweat all right. Well, let's dive
right into it today because we are talking about something.
I am headed to Toronto soon go for a hockey tournament,
right because I have found myself coaching a team now
(01:02):
unexpectedly very excited.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
About it though.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
So for our hockey hot take this week, we are
going to talk about the college recruiting process and everything
that that entails. Hoty hot take. It has become insane.
The recruiting process, I think is better than the admissions process,
(01:30):
but the whole college process now is like such a
sham with the applications and the this and the that,
and like can you get in? Like it's crazy. So
when when we were going through it, it was like
sometimes freshman well recruited, sometimes you recruited as a senior,
but usually yeah, junior year was like the hot spot.
I think I committed to Wisconsin as a sophomore. We're
(01:51):
watching your cousin go through the college admissions process. This
kid has like a fourteen hundred on his SAT has
a four point zero or a three point nine to
eight or something ridiculous. But there's like some they don't scale.
Those degrading skills have now changed. Your uncle was telling
me some crazy story like that can't possible. It's right.
Couple that with the cost of college, like what are
(02:11):
we doing? It honestly is maddening.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I mean, you and I had a very different college
recruiting process because you were an early commit and I
was a recruited walk on so I think like maybe
later in the episode, we can talk a little bit
about your process versus my process, and then maybe like
advice from both parties. But if we're just gonna stick
with the main point that like college is broken, the
admissions process is broken.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I was blown away.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
There are so many schools that basically just let you
fill out the common app and pay a hundred bucks
and fire in the old college application willy nilly, And
I think there's two things majorly wrong with that.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
One.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It feels like a money grab, and that's what's creating
these incredibly low acceptance rates because you can just apply
to like thirty five schools if you're willing to put
one hundred dollars on the line for every single application
that you set.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So is that what it is? It's one hundred dollars
to apply essentially one hundred dollars to apply to every school,
but you can use the same application.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Some schools now are just letting the common app exist
and then letting that be enough and not requiring the
second essay and then the specialized application. So for example,
a school might get hundreds of millions of dollars in
applications for people that didn't ever want to or didn't
put any extra effort into actually getting into that school.
(03:26):
Like the common app is now one hundred percent excepted everywhere,
which is crazy to me. Remember when I mean, you
probably only applied to one school, but I applied to
like five ten schools and I had to write a
different essay for almost every single one.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, I only applied to Wisconsin. Yeah I did not
have that is Yeah, but you were. You have a
different perspective. They like started to tighten the admissions, like
right when I was going through the application process, and
like when I committed to I committed to Wisconsin end
of my freshman year or started my sophomore year. Maybe
this is a silly story. So as soon as I
(04:00):
knew I was going to school, I'm like, bet, Like
I'll do my homework, but like I don't have to
try that hard. You were, Maddie pack it in. I
had like a three one. You didn't laugh at that.
Maybe maybe at two nine, And I remember I remember
Dan Cook called my dad and he's like, uh, hey,
like what's going on with Madison. My Dad's like, what
do you mean. He's like, we're uh, we're in a
(04:21):
bit of a buind like she's gonna she really needs
to do well on these tests, otherwise she's probably not
getting into school.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Can you imagine you just thought, oh, yeah, I'm fourteen
years old.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
How old were you were?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Off?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Fourteen and you were like, I'm just gonna you know
what it was? It was because of the football program
had led a bunch of kids in that they shouldn't have,
which is also like, this is why you don't do that,
because you admit kids into your school who shouldn't be
and then you don't provide them the correct education academic
resources and they fail out and become academically ineligible. Yep,
I was never academically ineligible. I just did just enough
(04:55):
to like be okay. But good thing, I'm smart because
I smashed that act out of the I think it's
all right.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
It's really hard, especially here's the flip side to the coin.
Because I didn't know if I was gonna be able
to play college hockey. I was trying, so I was
having to apply to schools without the guarantee that I
was on the hockey team and or going to Boston University.
I had to get in on my own. I'm sure
they like supported in some way, but for the most part,
I was left alone to do that process. I almost
(05:23):
can kind of liken it to the feeling of like
when we tried to get pregnant and then there was
two weeks where I just had to like wait and
see if it worked. It felt that same level of
like stress because for me, my mom graduated from school
and she was always so proud of her Babiston degree
and she's so smart. My mom had a small business.
(05:44):
Like my mom just rocks right in every way. But
I remember feeling like, oh my gosh, what if I
don't get into this school.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I think I was.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Just like stressed to let her down or not be
somebody that she was proud of. I don't know why
that bothered me so much, but like it was less
about me, but it felt like decision that needed to
be made for the rest of my life and I
was so incapable of making it. And thank god everything
happened the way that it did. But we give these
kids the ability to apply to like specialized programs at
(06:13):
eighteen years old and then hope that they get in,
and if they don't, like the course of their entire
life could change or they choose to go for like
animal husband tree in blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
What does animal husband tree?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It's like zookeeping, And then they want to be a mechanic.
Then they have a degree that means nothing. This is stressful.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Well, I mean I feel like that happens a lot anyways.
I mean we could talk about this all day. Right, Like, athletes,
I guess are at an advantage. I didn't realize until
now what an advantage I have? Yeah, Like no, seriously though,
like not having student loans. No, that's incredible. So if
you're able to get a college scholarship, you know, the
hardest sport to get a college scholarship in right now?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Track and field?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I have no idea. But you know what's I have
no idea. I don't know, you know what apparently is
like the most fruitful, but golf and lacrosse? Huh. I
would guess that probably basketball is the hardest.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I was thinking track and field because it's so common,
like you could just start running, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
There's so many spots. Rowing is a good one, but
I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Like women's rowing team would just walk around, splash and
be like, were you athletic? Do you want to try
out for the rowing team. And then I remember girls
that I went to college with earning a scholarship, like
sophomore junior year getting a scholarship for rowing.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
They just started two years ago. Yeah, you gotta stop
high jaring stories. Man, Was that your style? That was
my story? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Did that happen at your school too?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yes, that's like the common thing with rowing.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I didn't know that was common.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, well, because it's not. It's such an expensive sport
to do, right, and not that common like countrywide. And
at Wisconsin they had a men's rowing team, they didn't
have a women's rowing team. A girl that I played
with on the hockey team, both of her brothers were rowers.
At Wisconsin, the women's team became a scholarship sport while
(08:02):
I was there. That's crazy. There were like ninety girls
on the rowing team.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
So be you has always been a rowing school because
we're on the Charles River. We've always had riving.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
But here's what I think is crazy, right, you think
about title nine and I guess this is the last
thing I'll say on this recruiting process. When you are
looking at schools that you want to go to, two
things make sure it's a school you want to go to. Yes,
and also make sure it's a school that you align
with morally, because I think, like no serious you can
see some of these schools that think that even means
(08:34):
the same, like especially as a woman, even means same,
like adding a rowing team just so you have the
same number of scholarships. Why not enhance a programs experience? Right,
we'll get into it more, like you said, but there's
so much that goes into the college recruiting process, but
just off the rip, the admissions process, the pressure, the
people applying, the number of spots, the number of schools,
(08:56):
the chaos is just out of this world. Ye.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I remember Brian d Rocher always saying, if you don't
want to come to Boston University to get an education,
you shouldn't come to Boston University to be on the
hockey team. And that always stuck with me. So shout
out to Brian de Rocher. I thought he was one
of my favorite. He was one of my favorite recruiters generally,
but just a great coach and a great dude all around.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I think we should start with a little check in.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
We'll talk about how we're feeling, how we're vibing, and
then we can go into some more stuff on college
college recruiting process. But before we do, why don't you
run me through a one to one hundred?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Where are you at? How you doing? I'm like a
sixty five? Oh why very tired, stale because you're an emack. Yeah,
taking iron supplements though, so hopefully that starts to help.
But I'm tired. I have to go to Toronto at
some point in the next twenty four hours. And I
like Toronto, but I'm just like, it's like a long trip.
(09:53):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Toronto's all right, but it's not home, and it's not
my bed, and I'm anemic and I'm.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Tired, although maybe I'll get to sleep in. Yeah, what
the heck?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Best place to be in the world if you're tired
is a hotel, not near your kids.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, and jigging And I found out today Jiggy and
Claudia might be coming to stay with us for a
while and they like might be moving in today and
I'm going to be leaving right away. And high stress.
I missed that roommate life.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, high stress situation.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, where are you at? Feel pretty good?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I will probably miss a workout today, so I'm down
a little, but all in all, I'm solid. I think
I'm like a solid eighty. Can't get me down right now.
It's you already mentioned it's warm in the house if
the windows are open. Right off the jump, I'm at
a sixty or above.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Oh you know what though, what what if I could
bring you up fill your count? What does that mean?
What if I traded you? If you pick the kids up,
I will hang with them solo so that I can
go to the ym, so that you can go to
the gym. Oh my goodness, how do we feel about that?
What do I need to give you in return? Try
(10:58):
it layers? Why don't I get paid in trident layers? Also,
we could drop Whalen off at the parkour thing. Yeah,
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
We could also just bring them to kids camp at
the gym, so we can do that too.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
All options. They have family members swim tonight.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Oh we should bring Bean McQueen.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
She'd love it.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Well, it's not till seven thirty. Like, why this just
brought me down to a sixty. I've about had it
with Chelsea Peers. This justly brought me down. No shade
like I say this with my full chest. I have
about family swim at seven thirty. Family swim at seven thirty.
It's the only time the family swim is available. It's
(11:36):
not open on the weekends. You have a whole water park. Well,
why don't you breathe. It's really not that big a deal.
I'm gonna come unglued in the membership office today. You're
not allowed to come. People would fall out of their
seats if they knew what we paid for the Madison
and you pay extra for kids and none of the
kids benefits are at kids times. That just fired me
(11:58):
right up. It's like I ate a firecraft, you leave
a war path.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I have to walk behind you and be like, sorry, yeah,
my wife's the one with the pink.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Hair, with the guy with the tire.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
They are all afraid of you, the guy that changed
our tires.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Poor man looked at me and I go mcgeary about
my wife. He was like, it's okay. I was like,
it's not okay, but I have to I'm such a bully.
I have to say sorry.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
So don't go to the don't go to Chelsea Peers whatever.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Well, you know what this this little reminiscing check in
moment brought me up a little bit. So all that
wrapped up with a bow, and we got new tires.
So we're gonna go to a quick break before I
blow a gasket down in this basement. We're gonna go
to a quick ad break, and then we're going to
continue our college recruiting talk with some advice, some stories,
(12:46):
and hopefully anyone going through that process can take away
as they navigate that winding road.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
So we'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Okay, So we're back, and I think we should start
by setting the expectation that we had a very different
recruiting process. Talk a little bit about yours. I think
that your path is a little bit more specialized in
the fact that you were one of three or five
top recruits in our grad year, so you're innately going
(13:30):
to have a little bit of a different experience, But
that doesn't mean that it's not without you know, mentorship, coaching, support, learning.
So why don't you talk about your process and then
I can go into mine.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Speak for yourself. I'm naturally gifted and I did it
all on my own, right. Yeah, So I don't remember
like the timeline. I think it was somewhere between my
freshman and sophomore or sophomore in junior year. But I
visited a bunch of schools. We also billeted a lot
of players, and when I was at Little Caesar, like
we had anything and everything we needed. I did extra ice.
(14:04):
I knew from a really young age I wanted to
play in the NHL. Then I wanted to be an Olympian.
Then I wanted to play at the best school. For
a while, I wanted to go to Harvard and play
hockey and be a comedian. That didn't work out. But
by the time I was like starting to really look
at schools, I had a D one offer from just
about every school in the country, and the schools that
I wasn't talking to yet I'm sure would have had
(14:26):
interest if I had shown interest. So I went and
toured a lot of schools with my parents, mostly with
my dad, and they all had to be unofficials because
like one year I went with Jen Lacasse while she
was like looking at Providence and whatever, like, I went
and saw BUBC And when you're on campus you can
meet the coaches and see the facilities. So I had
seen I probably looked at fifteen twenty schools to see,
(14:47):
like what the vibe was. I really liked BC, but
it wasn't big enougheah. I didn't love BU because it
was like right in a city. I say this all
the time. If University of Michigan had a women's hockey team,
which is a huge swing and a miss. Let's say
that again, Michigan not having a women's hockey team is
a huge swing and miss. They get a women's team,
they'll win a national championship in the first two to
(15:09):
four years. Like you think about how good Wisconsin is,
how good Ohio State is. What do they have in common?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Michiganders Big ten No, but seriously.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Big football schools, tons of money.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I'm not kidding. It really is Michiganders, though.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
There's a lot of Canadians at Wisconsin. Now it's a
big ten school with tons of money. Those teams are powerhouses,
so they get all the funding. You get treated better
at OSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota. I don't know about Minnesota the
luth but like some of those top three to five schools,
you get treated better there as of male or female.
(15:43):
Then a lot of people get treated in the pros
like the NATL guys will say it. The football guys
say it. We had a private plane at Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So I think it's interesting because you talk a little
bit about your official visit process. First define what that means,
and then too, maybe like what was the headspace when
you were fourteen to an official visit trying to figure
out what college you wanted.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
To go to. I didn't take an official visit at fourteen.
It was a bunch of unofficials, right, because we can't
take official business. Yeah, you can't take officials until like
after July first of your junior year or something, and
that might have changed a little bit now, but you
can't take official visits as freshman or sophomores or even juniors,
I don't think, and.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
As you can really, yeah, because junior year, when you're
a sign your an ils freshman.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Sorry, you're right, freshmen and sophomores. But so I visited
a bunch of schools. You can take a certain number
of officials. When we were getting get routed, it was five.
I believe that's the same because otherwise you can whine
and dine to I know, forty schools and then decide, Okay,
I really want to go to the one that I
went to first but I just took forty free vacations. Like,
it's a fair process to both parties. I encourage people
(16:44):
to visit as many schools as they can, even if
it's a school you know you don't want to go to.
But like, let's say they are not the same at all.
But let's say that BU was very similar to Florida State.
If you live in the backyard of Florida State, you're
able to look up the amenities, the campus size, the
class size, all these things. You're able to look it
(17:05):
up online. So if you are in a situation where
you can get to an unofficial because you have to
pay for the unofficial, when you get there, you can
meet with the coach, you can see the facility. So
if you're, you know, in Boston for a tournament, go
visit Harbor NORTHEASTERNBC. When you're visiting places, visit schools that
you think you might be interested in, or visit schools
that are comparable to a school you might be interested in,
(17:26):
so you can get a feel. Right the minute I
stepped on Wisconsin's campus, I was like, that's it. I
knew I wasn't allowed to talk to the coaches, but
my dad could because he was the college liaison. So
he was talking at the time to Wisconsin about Lacas
and Brian Frickus and all these other people. And so
when we left Wisconsin, he was like, by the way,
(17:47):
Madison is locked in, like she loved everything about the school.
Like I had made my decision. I regret that. Oh,
I think that I would have.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I mean, I didn't commit to them, Like you can't
do no, no, no, But you think you would have made
the same decision.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
You think you would have changed your mind.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I think I would have still made the same decision.
Yet I don't regret anything about my college experience. We
won a national championship, I got a great education, great
alumni network. I love everything about being a Badger. However,
I wish that I had enjoyed the process more. I
was so excited and so consumed and like focused on
committing first and being an early commit and having everyone
(18:23):
know because then right I was getting all these letters.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Oh, it's easy to go to the ego, Like that's
an ego, play no offense, it just is yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
And then but then schools won't talk to you. Then
you have no and it looks really bad to decommit yeah,
or to double cross. Yeah. So then I didn't, and
it's the opposite. You have the worst reputation. And I
remember thinking that to myself when I went and visited
a friend of mine that was playing at Ohio State
when I was still in high school. I drove down
to Ohio State and I visited their campus. I went
(18:51):
to a party, who went to a football game, went
out afterwards, and I'm like, what if I would have
done this, yeah, just to like get the feel, you know,
because like when I when I visited was we went
to a football game, we went out to a party,
like you follow a student athlete around and like you
get to feel what it's like to be there. And
I just kind of wish I had enjoyed that more,
(19:12):
like just just I probably would have still made the
same decision. I think I didn't do that because in
my heart of hearts, I knew, like when I got
to Wisconsin, I stepped on campus, I was like I
was in love. Like there was nothing that could have
convinced me otherwise. I don't want to say I jumped
to the gum, because again I probably would have ended
up there, but I just wish I had enjoyed the
journey a little bit more like my dad was excited too.
I remember my dad called my mom in the in
(19:34):
the Chicago airport and he was like, she's all in,
and like my dad was crying. My mom was crying.
I was the first kid in my family to get
a scholarship to college.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, but I think the hard part in the college process,
especially when you're coming to it with the lens of athleticism.
And I will also say academia as well, because it's
all kind of similar. Right, If you apply as early
decision and you get in for academia for your grades,
there's an ego, oh there, no matter what you tell me,
(20:02):
you cannot convince me otherwise. Because it's cool. You want
to be the first one. You want to say this.
Like now we watch the kids on social media put
like Ohio State commit, be you commit, and like it's
part of the culture of the sport. You know, if
you were on social media at that time, you would
have had Wisconsin commit. You would have had a picture
(20:23):
of you on campus. Blah blah blah, whatever it is.
I was the complete opposite. Nobody knew who I was.
I sent an email to every single coach every tournament
that I played in. So I'm gonna start with some advice, right,
because this is kind of like my story, but also
just advice and good practice. I detailed about what gloves
I had, what color they were, what number I wore,
what if my hair was going to be down, what
(20:45):
color my helmet was, all of the things. Because if
I got blood on my jersey and I changed my
number and they're sitting there watching someone else, they would
have missed me, right, So I had to do a
very different process. I reached out to everybody, Hey, I
love your school, and like, what a loser.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
This was.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Before AI could automatically write my emails, I would be like,
go Huskies, go Terriers, go blah blah blah. Like I
would like pick everyone's mascot and make it really personal
and really really cute. My whole point in saying this
was I knew that I really wanted to go to
school to play hockey. I also fully was aware that
I wasn't one of the top recruit picks in our grade.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
I was at Waltham High School.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I wasn't even at a private school or a prep
school or a specialized team in Massachusetts. At the time,
they wouldn't even let me try out to be on
the prep team. I had to only play on the
public school team.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
So I was already at a disadvantage in all of
these places.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
All of that to say, I think that the biggest
piece of the pie is to be one hundred percent
sure that you want something, and that's like the foundation.
I was so positive that I wanted to play sports
in college that it didn't bother me that I had
to do all of that work and basically stand with
a sign that said please pick me. I never felt
(21:59):
like less. But I remember when I got the call.
I was working in a hockey skate shop and Brian
de Rocher called me, and it was after he had
come to a game and we had three d on
my high school hockey team. So I played the entire game.
I kept a water bottle on the goalies net. I
don't even think at that point I'm playing hockey. I
played skated for sixty full minutes like it was just
(22:20):
a gong show. And he called me, and I was
working at the skate shop, and I pick up the
phone like.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Any high schooler does. I probably was like, Hey, who's this.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
He was like it's Brian de Rocher from Boston University
twenty six, seventeen or five or something like that. And
I was like what, and he goes, those are the
numbers that you can choose from. We'd love to extend
you a walk on spot, and I bawled my eyes out,
called my mom. Same feeling of like immense pride, but
(22:49):
in a completely different world because there was no guarantees
that I was going to college, let alone college to
play sports.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
When we first met and you told me that you
were considering going to cosmetology school. No knock on cosmetology school,
no knock at all. I love my hairdresser. I drive
over an hour for every five weeks. But I was like, huh,
how different your life would have been, you know, not
negative or positive. I was just kind of like we
would have never met, we wouldn't have Waylan and Harlan Like,
(23:19):
it's just so interesting. And I almost went to be
you I love I know he was the We definitely
would not be married if I had gone.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
To be absolutely no, but I will say we might
have dated now also know what, because we don't date
teammates freaking remember the rules?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Like you dated a teammate at BU for like nine years.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Okay, moving on, shout out, Oh no.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
No thanks, no shout out necessary there, I will.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Say, though I maybe didn't anticipate making it, I would
have been okay playing club hockey somewhere, And I think.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
This is why you believe in yourself and you set
a beheady, big, very ambitious goal.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I also had a mentor. So here's the thing that
maybe like also sets me apart. Like, yes, that I
just set a goal shore, but at the time it
was like very fortuitous. The head coach of my high
school hockey team totally didn't like me.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
He told me that I was uncoachable.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I have to cut you off for a second. Yes,
I may have told my therapist today that you aren't
super coachable.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Oh that stinks.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Okay, well, you and my former coach were wrong. But
I had an enemy. I had all of the story
lines for a redemption arc. I had the common enemy, right.
I had the coach that didn't like me, and I didn't.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Like him back.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
It was equally mutually distasteful.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
So I had that right, and I had my why.
I really wanted to keep playing hockey. I loved it.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I thought there was no pro league, there was nothing
to really aspire towards.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I knew I was never going to go to the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Like I was very aware of my skill set, but
I thought this could be a vehicle for me to
continue to have friends, family, a team, like all the
things that I loved it. Ha'd some really major mental
health struggles in high school, and I felt like what
got me through was having a team.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
So I knew all these things that I wanted right
and then in comes my assistant coach.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
His name was Todd. He played at UMass Lowell. He
was a Riverhawk, so he played Division one. No business
coaching the Waltham Girls High school hockey team like go
Hawks for life, the Lady Hawks. We actually called ourselves
the Lady Hawks because our ponytails weren't indication enough. Completely insane,
but that being said, he looked at me and he said,
(25:31):
if you want it, you've got to do a bunch
of really uncomfortable stuff, but you can definitely get there.
You have to write the emails, you have to show
up to the rink when they're practicing and you're not invited.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
You know, they do these unofficial visit pools.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Like go visit Boston University and then like somebody, probably
like a member of the athletic department that doesn't even
want to be there, sets up a booth and like
doesn't really field questions, but like you got to go
up to those people and introduce yourself and make yourself
really like approachable and interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I did all of that stuff. I would have been
so bad at that.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
I did all of that stuff because I had a mentor.
I had somebody that I could trust, and then I
had him then advocate for me. Hey, can I have
them call you? Because if they called this head coach,
he's going to tell them' a piece of shit. And
I don't think I'm a piece of shit. I might be,
but I don't think so. All that to say when
you're going through the process of trying to go to school,
first of all, nothing is outside of your possibility. You
(26:26):
can do anything. And secondly, like if I didn't make
it on the Terriers, I would have gone to Boston
University and played on the club team. And you know
what I would have done on the club team. Continued
to email the coach and try to get pulled up
like I was insane about it. But I really really
wanted it, and I really wanted that to be shown.
In my first year at Boston University, I was roommates
(26:48):
with Kayleie Fratkin, who went on to have a nine
year pro career. I was roommates with Marie Philipe Poulen,
who was just the golden girl that freaking scored the
goal in the last Olympics, like the number one recruit
in the universe. And then Louise Warren, who was on
a full ride, came from private school, and I'm sitting
in our quad like, hi, guys, I don't even know
(27:09):
if I can skate comparatively to the three of you,
but I'm here just the same.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I like when you share that story, you're also like
too mean to yourself, because if you weren't good enough
to play at BU, you wouldn't play a BU. But
I think it's important, And I hope you know we're moms.
We cater to moms, we speak to moms. But I
hope if you're a mom listening to this podcast, that
you share it with your kiddo, because I think that
two things. One I say this all the time, Perception
is reality to the perceiver, right So if you walk
(27:51):
into a rink tomorrow in Boston, mass every parent you
talk to as a kid who's going D one seriously,
And it's no knock on parents, Like, it's just I
think that your your reality and your cadence for what
is realistic changes one once you've been through it, two
once you have a greater understanding of what that process
really looks like. I mean, I don't know the stat
(28:12):
right off the top of my head, but I think
less than one tenth of one percent of college athletes
go on to play pro. Our kids have two moms
that did both, and less than one percent of high
school athletes in all sport go on to play college sports.
That's D one, D two, D three because a lot
(28:33):
of kids play sports. Yeah, right, and you take into
account kids who drop out of sports. So encourage your
kids to stay in sport, but also encourage your kids.
It's not about the scholarship, the glamour, the this, the that. Like,
if your kid can get to that level, you've done
a damn good job of supporting them and chasing a dream,
of providing them opportunity to get to where they wanted
(28:54):
to go. But just having a kid who is able
to balance college academics and sports or join a different
kind of club, Like I think that we get so
lost in the allure, speaking specifically of hockey, right, Yeah,
you can spend upwards of twenty five thirty thirty five,
I mean a semester of college just for a year
of youth sports. My mom used to always joke, I'll
(29:17):
buy you any car you want if you get a
college scholarship. Then when I got a college scholarship, my
dad was like, yeah, your youth hockey has paid for
ten cars. You're all set, kid, like where you're not
getting a car for college scholarship. That's not the reason
that you do it right. And don't get discouraged if
you don't get right where you want to be, because
there's a reason that you don't. Like you tell the
(29:37):
story all the time of and you just talked to
you just mentioned it, like if you really want to
go to BU and you can't play on their D
one team, go play club. Kids get moved up all
the time. We saw it at Sacred Heart right in
our backyard. I used to train there with Rob. There
was a kid on the club team. They had a
few players get hurt he was a goalie, he got
pulled up. He played two years of varsity hockey at
Sacred Heart and ended up getting a scholarship. Like things happen,
(29:59):
and obviously those are one off stories, but the overarching
theme of all of it. If you want to do it,
get a mentor find an advocate, get a coach who believes,
and you listen to the coach, do the extra work.
But you can't do all of that with the expectation
that by doing so you are absolutely going to reach
what you view as the finish line. You have to
(30:20):
do those things regardless, not in spite of and I
think that that's the biggest thing.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
I'll also add to that.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
My mom didn't do anything to help me, and I always,
in the moment was maybe mad at her about it,
like frustrated, But later in life I've really appreciated that
because I mean, we say it right, like, did my
mom ever shake me awake and say, hey, why don't
you go shoot a thousand pucks?
Speaker 3 (30:45):
No?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Really, that never happened. She never ever ever told me
to do that. But I remember being like, hey, Mom,
I put a hole in the garage because I was
shooting a thousand pucks. And the difference is, had she
told me to do it, I would have done it
because she said so. But I wouldn't have done it
because I wanted it right, Like, you're in a different position.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
You had like the private.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Skating coaches, the shooting tutors, like all the support, and yes,
did your parents organize it, probably, but they didn't go
out on the ice and try for you. Right, Like,
had I not sent all those emails, imagine my mom
sent a thousand emails to different coaches and then sourced
me the opportunity to be a recruited walk on the
first day of training camp, it be you. When I
(31:26):
was throwing up on an air bike, I would have
quit because I didn't care.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Also, just if you take nothing else from this podcast,
don't be that parent. Yeah, don't be that parent. That's
what I'm trying to say. Which on the planet wants
to talk to you. No coach on the planet, even
even high school coaches. When I coached at the rink,
Now I walk into the rink, into the locker room,
talk to my girls, onto the ice after the game,
I walked straight out. Yeah, if it's a big problem,
(31:53):
then the kid needs support. Sure, but your kids want
to play college sports, your kids are moving away from home.
They have to have hard conversations. Kids now can't talk.
I don't mean that literally, but like they don't know
how to have hard conversations because everything is on I
just learned this. Actually it's not even text anymore. It's
all snapchat, right, Like their conversations are all through the phone,
(32:14):
through FaceTime, through Snapchat, which, by the way, FaceTime is
just having a face to face conversation with no accountability
because you don't have to stand there and own it.
Your kids need to have those conversations themselves, otherwise they
will get to college and they will fail.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
And I think the piece that really brought it home again.
I didn't feel unsupported, but I definitely felt like it
was my job to go find that opportunity for myself.
And I remember my freshman year, they did this big
table sat banquet where all the parents came. After the
first scrimmage, we brought some team in from like you know,
North Canada, beat the snot out of them and then whatever,
(32:48):
Like that was the first game of the year and
Beattie is loving Lee. Brian de Rocher, the former coach
at BU now it's Tarawatschhorn, former teammate. She's the best,
but we'll not talk about that. Bed gets up in
front of everybody and says, parents, it was amazing to
meet you. It was amazing to speak to you. He
spent time going to every table introducing himself, and he said,
this will be the first and last conversation we have.
(33:09):
While it was nice to meet you, I look forward
to shaking your hand when your child graduates from Boston University.
And we are since done with each other. I don't
want to hear from you. I don't want to receive
an email. I'm not concerned about your thoughts on your
daughter's playing time. This is my house. These are my
children now, and it was fabulous to meet you. And
(33:29):
I was shit scared. I was so afraid. I was like,
first of all, this man's a psychopath. But then I
was like, you know what, he's a what.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Togeters do to us?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I was like, what, I don't want to be in
this house.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I regret everything I've ever decided, and I now want
to transfer to Northeastern No.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
But I remember in.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
That moment being like I'm on my own now, and
I prepared myself for this moment, and I'm so thankful
that my mom didn't force me into a position that
I might not care about.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I cared with every fiber of my being.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
And I think the parenting advice that we can gleam
out of this is, if your kid wants to do something,
they're gonna do it. You insulate them with support, You
give them some advice, you let them know that you
listen to two old hats whine about it on a podcast,
but you give them the love and support that they need.
You tell them that they can, and you encourage them,
and you listen to their thoughts, and you shape them
into goals and you continue.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
To help them.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
But you never choose the goal for your kid. They
won't care. They just won't. So if I could give advice,
that's what I leave our parents with on this, What
about you give me like a snappy, good piece of
advice here.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah, my advice would be I think very similar, But like,
as your kids grow up and chase their dreams, right,
most good parents, that's what they want to do. They're
trying to enable their little bird to fly away from
the nest. And I think that, or I hope that
most parents have had, whether you're an athlete or not,
a good teacher, a good mentor a good coach, a
(34:56):
good something, and enable your kid to to find that
person because while like, oh my goodness, I might cry, guys,
while you hope to always be that person for your kid,
you need to empower them to go experience life on
their own so that they come home right. Like. That's
a huge part of what we're doing is enabling. And
(35:18):
you can't live vicariously through your kid. And I think
that that's a huge advantage that our kids have is
we've done it. I don't give a shit if Whylan
is the best kid on the baseball team or he
just wants to sit on the cooler and eat ice cubes.
I really don't. I don't care if he's a great
left fielder or he wants to sit out there and
pick daisies. I just want my kid to be happy.
But because we've done it, we've been there. I want
(35:39):
him to push himself. I want him to succeed. I
want him to achieve everything that he's capable of. But
him being successful has nothing to do with me. I
give him the tools, right, And so that's what you
have to remember if you want it more than your
kid go, it's never gonna happen. Let it go and
help them find something that gets them. So, I mean
(36:02):
like if you cut my arms off, pucks fallout. I
love hockey to my core. My kids don't feel that way.
They might not ever feel that way. Harlan a little bit.
She's getting there. But help them find something that they
want to be successful in. Because if you love what
you do, and you do what you love.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
You will be successful.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I fully, so that's my whether it's D one, D
three community college, your kid will find the right environment
for them and that should be enough. Be proud of that. Amen.
That's it for this week.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Thanks for listening, and if you like what you heard,
spread the word seriously right now, take your phone out,
Text a.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Friend and tell them to subscribe, and be sure to
rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify if
you haven't already. It really really helps Until next week.
I'm Madison Packer.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And I'm Anya Packer, and this was These Packs Puck.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
These Packs Puck is a production of iHeart Women's Sports
and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment, hosted by us Madison
and Anya packer. Emily Mehronoff is our senior producer and
story editor. We were mixed and mastered by Mary dew.
Our executive producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz, and Ali Perry.
Hi, everyone, Welcome to these packs puck. I'm Madison Packer
and I'm Anya Packer.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Madison and I are both former pro hockey players. We
met through hockey and fell in love, and now we're
married with two awesome toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
These days, we're opening up about the chaos of our
daily lives, between the juggle of being athletes, raising kids.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
And all the messiness in between.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So buckle the puck up because there is a lot
to talk about.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Hey, Anya, Hi Packy, how you doing. Oh I'm alive,
and well how are you doing? Good? Good? Good? It's
hot in this house today, Say.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, I feel so amazing. I love when the house
is warm. You know what I like the windows open.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, it's like seventy eight degrees outside. Yeah, good, it's
nice and toast means it's at least eighty inside. Go outside,
then I have a sweat all right. Well, let's dive
right into it today because we are talking about something.
I am headed to Toronto soon go for a hockey tournament,
right because I have found myself coaching a team now
(01:02):
unexpectedly very excited.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
About it though.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
So for our hockey hot take this week, we are
going to talk about the college recruiting process and everything
that that entails. Hoty hot take. It has become insane.
The recruiting process, I think is better than the admissions process,
(01:30):
but the whole college process now is like such a
sham with the applications and the this and the that,
and like can you get in? Like it's crazy. So
when when we were going through it, it was like
sometimes freshman well recruited, sometimes you recruited as a senior,
but usually yeah, junior year was like the hot spot.
I think I committed to Wisconsin as a sophomore. We're
(01:51):
watching your cousin go through the college admissions process. This
kid has like a fourteen hundred on his SAT has
a four point zero or a three point nine to
eight or something ridiculous. But there's like some they don't scale.
Those degrading skills have now changed. Your uncle was telling
me some crazy story like that can't possible. It's right.
Couple that with the cost of college, like what are
(02:11):
we doing? It honestly is maddening.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I mean, you and I had a very different college
recruiting process because you were an early commit and I
was a recruited walk on so I think like maybe
later in the episode, we can talk a little bit
about your process versus my process, and then maybe like
advice from both parties. But if we're just gonna stick
with the main point that like college is broken, the
admissions process is broken.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I was blown away.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
There are so many schools that basically just let you
fill out the common app and pay a hundred bucks
and fire in the old college application willy nilly, And
I think there's two things majorly wrong with that.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
One.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It feels like a money grab, and that's what's creating
these incredibly low acceptance rates because you can just apply
to like thirty five schools if you're willing to put
one hundred dollars on the line for every single application
that you set.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So is that what it is? It's one hundred dollars
to apply essentially one hundred dollars to apply to every school,
but you can use the same application.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Some schools now are just letting the common app exist
and then letting that be enough and not requiring the
second essay and then the specialized application. So for example,
a school might get hundreds of millions of dollars in
applications for people that didn't ever want to or didn't
put any extra effort into actually getting into that school.
(03:26):
Like the common app is now one hundred percent excepted everywhere,
which is crazy to me. Remember when I mean, you
probably only applied to one school, but I applied to
like five ten schools and I had to write a
different essay for almost every single one.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, I only applied to Wisconsin. Yeah I did not
have that is Yeah, but you were. You have a
different perspective. They like started to tighten the admissions, like
right when I was going through the application process, and
like when I committed to I committed to Wisconsin end
of my freshman year or started my sophomore year. Maybe
this is a silly story. So as soon as I
(04:00):
knew I was going to school, I'm like, bet, Like
I'll do my homework, but like I don't have to
try that hard. You were, Maddie pack it in. I
had like a three one. You didn't laugh at that.
Maybe maybe at two nine, And I remember I remember
Dan Cook called my dad and he's like, uh, hey,
like what's going on with Madison. My Dad's like, what
do you mean. He's like, we're uh, we're in a
(04:21):
bit of a buind like she's gonna she really needs
to do well on these tests, otherwise she's probably not
getting into school.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Can you imagine you just thought, oh, yeah, I'm fourteen
years old.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
How old were you were?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Off?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Fourteen and you were like, I'm just gonna you know
what it was? It was because of the football program
had led a bunch of kids in that they shouldn't have,
which is also like, this is why you don't do that,
because you admit kids into your school who shouldn't be
and then you don't provide them the correct education academic
resources and they fail out and become academically ineligible. Yep,
I was never academically ineligible. I just did just enough
(04:55):
to like be okay. But good thing, I'm smart because
I smashed that act out of the I think it's
all right.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
It's really hard, especially here's the flip side to the coin.
Because I didn't know if I was gonna be able
to play college hockey. I was trying, so I was
having to apply to schools without the guarantee that I
was on the hockey team and or going to Boston University.
I had to get in on my own. I'm sure
they like supported in some way, but for the most part,
I was left alone to do that process. I almost
(05:23):
can kind of liken it to the feeling of like
when we tried to get pregnant and then there was
two weeks where I just had to like wait and
see if it worked. It felt that same level of
like stress because for me, my mom graduated from school
and she was always so proud of her Babiston degree
and she's so smart. My mom had a small business.
(05:44):
Like my mom just rocks right in every way. But
I remember feeling like, oh my gosh, what if I
don't get into this school.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I think I was.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Just like stressed to let her down or not be
somebody that she was proud of. I don't know why
that bothered me so much, but like it was less
about me, but it felt like decision that needed to
be made for the rest of my life and I
was so incapable of making it. And thank god everything
happened the way that it did. But we give these
kids the ability to apply to like specialized programs at
(06:13):
eighteen years old and then hope that they get in,
and if they don't, like the course of their entire
life could change or they choose to go for like
animal husband tree in blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
What does animal husband tree?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It's like zookeeping, And then they want to be a mechanic.
Then they have a degree that means nothing. This is stressful.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Well, I mean I feel like that happens a lot anyways.
I mean we could talk about this all day. Right, Like, athletes,
I guess are at an advantage. I didn't realize until
now what an advantage I have? Yeah, Like no, seriously though,
like not having student loans. No, that's incredible. So if
you're able to get a college scholarship, you know, the
hardest sport to get a college scholarship in right now?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Track and field?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I have no idea. But you know what's I have
no idea. I don't know, you know what apparently is
like the most fruitful, but golf and lacrosse? Huh. I
would guess that probably basketball is the hardest.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I was thinking track and field because it's so common,
like you could just start running, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
There's so many spots. Rowing is a good one, but
I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Like women's rowing team would just walk around, splash and
be like, were you athletic? Do you want to try
out for the rowing team. And then I remember girls
that I went to college with earning a scholarship, like
sophomore junior year getting a scholarship for rowing.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
They just started two years ago. Yeah, you gotta stop
high jaring stories. Man, Was that your style? That was
my story? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Did that happen at your school too?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yes, that's like the common thing with rowing.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I didn't know that was common.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, well, because it's not. It's such an expensive sport
to do, right, and not that common like countrywide. And
at Wisconsin they had a men's rowing team, they didn't
have a women's rowing team. A girl that I played
with on the hockey team, both of her brothers were rowers.
At Wisconsin, the women's team became a scholarship sport while
(08:02):
I was there. That's crazy. There were like ninety girls
on the rowing team.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
So be you has always been a rowing school because
we're on the Charles River. We've always had riving.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
But here's what I think is crazy, right, you think
about title nine and I guess this is the last
thing I'll say on this recruiting process. When you are
looking at schools that you want to go to, two
things make sure it's a school you want to go to. Yes,
and also make sure it's a school that you align
with morally, because I think, like no serious you can
see some of these schools that think that even means
(08:34):
the same, like especially as a woman, even means same,
like adding a rowing team just so you have the
same number of scholarships. Why not enhance a programs experience? Right,
we'll get into it more, like you said, but there's
so much that goes into the college recruiting process, but
just off the rip, the admissions process, the pressure, the
people applying, the number of spots, the number of schools,
(08:56):
the chaos is just out of this world. Ye.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I remember Brian d Rocher always saying, if you don't
want to come to Boston University to get an education,
you shouldn't come to Boston University to be on the
hockey team. And that always stuck with me. So shout
out to Brian de Rocher. I thought he was one
of my favorite. He was one of my favorite recruiters generally,
but just a great coach and a great dude all around.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I think we should start with a little check in.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
We'll talk about how we're feeling, how we're vibing, and
then we can go into some more stuff on college
college recruiting process. But before we do, why don't you
run me through a one to one hundred?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Where are you at? How you doing? I'm like a
sixty five? Oh why very tired, stale because you're an emack. Yeah,
taking iron supplements though, so hopefully that starts to help.
But I'm tired. I have to go to Toronto at
some point in the next twenty four hours. And I
like Toronto, but I'm just like, it's like a long trip.
(09:53):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Toronto's all right, but it's not home, and it's not
my bed, and I'm anemic and I'm.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Tired, although maybe I'll get to sleep in. Yeah, what
the heck?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Best place to be in the world if you're tired
is a hotel, not near your kids.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, and jigging And I found out today Jiggy and
Claudia might be coming to stay with us for a
while and they like might be moving in today and
I'm going to be leaving right away. And high stress.
I missed that roommate life.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, high stress situation.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, where are you at? Feel pretty good?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I will probably miss a workout today, so I'm down
a little, but all in all, I'm solid. I think
I'm like a solid eighty. Can't get me down right now.
It's you already mentioned it's warm in the house if
the windows are open. Right off the jump, I'm at
a sixty or above.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Oh you know what though, what what if I could
bring you up fill your count? What does that mean?
What if I traded you? If you pick the kids up,
I will hang with them solo so that I can
go to the ym, so that you can go to
the gym. Oh my goodness, how do we feel about that?
What do I need to give you in return? Try
(10:58):
it layers? Why don't I get paid in trident layers? Also,
we could drop Whalen off at the parkour thing. Yeah,
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
We could also just bring them to kids camp at
the gym, so we can do that too.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
All options. They have family members swim tonight.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Oh we should bring Bean McQueen.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
She'd love it.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Well, it's not till seven thirty. Like, why this just
brought me down to a sixty. I've about had it
with Chelsea Peers. This justly brought me down. No shade
like I say this with my full chest. I have
about family swim at seven thirty. Family swim at seven thirty.
It's the only time the family swim is available. It's
(11:36):
not open on the weekends. You have a whole water park. Well,
why don't you breathe. It's really not that big a deal.
I'm gonna come unglued in the membership office today. You're
not allowed to come. People would fall out of their
seats if they knew what we paid for the Madison
and you pay extra for kids and none of the
kids benefits are at kids times. That just fired me
(11:58):
right up. It's like I ate a firecraft, you leave
a war path.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I have to walk behind you and be like, sorry, yeah,
my wife's the one with the pink.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Hair, with the guy with the tire.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
They are all afraid of you, the guy that changed
our tires.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Poor man looked at me and I go mcgeary about
my wife. He was like, it's okay. I was like,
it's not okay, but I have to I'm such a bully.
I have to say sorry.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
So don't go to the don't go to Chelsea Peers whatever.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Well, you know what this this little reminiscing check in
moment brought me up a little bit. So all that
wrapped up with a bow, and we got new tires.
So we're gonna go to a quick break before I
blow a gasket down in this basement. We're gonna go
to a quick ad break, and then we're going to
continue our college recruiting talk with some advice, some stories,
(12:46):
and hopefully anyone going through that process can take away
as they navigate that winding road.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
So we'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Okay, So we're back, and I think we should start
by setting the expectation that we had a very different
recruiting process. Talk a little bit about yours. I think
that your path is a little bit more specialized in
the fact that you were one of three or five
top recruits in our grad year, so you're innately going
(13:30):
to have a little bit of a different experience, But
that doesn't mean that it's not without you know, mentorship, coaching, support, learning.
So why don't you talk about your process and then
I can go into mine.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Speak for yourself. I'm naturally gifted and I did it
all on my own, right. Yeah, So I don't remember
like the timeline. I think it was somewhere between my
freshman and sophomore or sophomore in junior year. But I
visited a bunch of schools. We also billeted a lot
of players, and when I was at Little Caesar, like
we had anything and everything we needed. I did extra ice.
(14:04):
I knew from a really young age I wanted to
play in the NHL. Then I wanted to be an Olympian.
Then I wanted to play at the best school. For
a while, I wanted to go to Harvard and play
hockey and be a comedian. That didn't work out. But
by the time I was like starting to really look
at schools, I had a D one offer from just
about every school in the country, and the schools that
I wasn't talking to yet I'm sure would have had
(14:26):
interest if I had shown interest. So I went and
toured a lot of schools with my parents, mostly with
my dad, and they all had to be unofficials because
like one year I went with Jen Lacasse while she
was like looking at Providence and whatever, like, I went
and saw BUBC And when you're on campus you can
meet the coaches and see the facilities. So I had
seen I probably looked at fifteen twenty schools to see,
(14:47):
like what the vibe was. I really liked BC, but
it wasn't big enougheah. I didn't love BU because it
was like right in a city. I say this all
the time. If University of Michigan had a women's hockey team,
which is a huge swing and a miss. Let's say
that again, Michigan not having a women's hockey team is
a huge swing and miss. They get a women's team,
they'll win a national championship in the first two to
(15:09):
four years. Like you think about how good Wisconsin is,
how good Ohio State is. What do they have in common?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Michiganders Big ten No, but seriously.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Big football schools, tons of money.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I'm not kidding. It really is Michiganders, though.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
There's a lot of Canadians at Wisconsin. Now it's a
big ten school with tons of money. Those teams are powerhouses,
so they get all the funding. You get treated better
at OSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota. I don't know about Minnesota the
luth but like some of those top three to five schools,
you get treated better there as of male or female.
(15:43):
Then a lot of people get treated in the pros
like the NATL guys will say it. The football guys
say it. We had a private plane at Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So I think it's interesting because you talk a little
bit about your official visit process. First define what that means,
and then too, maybe like what was the headspace when
you were fourteen to an official visit trying to figure
out what college you wanted.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
To go to. I didn't take an official visit at fourteen.
It was a bunch of unofficials, right, because we can't
take official business. Yeah, you can't take officials until like
after July first of your junior year or something, and
that might have changed a little bit now, but you
can't take official visits as freshman or sophomores or even juniors,
I don't think, and.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
As you can really, yeah, because junior year, when you're
a sign your an ils freshman.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Sorry, you're right, freshmen and sophomores. But so I visited
a bunch of schools. You can take a certain number
of officials. When we were getting get routed, it was five.
I believe that's the same because otherwise you can whine
and dine to I know, forty schools and then decide, Okay,
I really want to go to the one that I
went to first but I just took forty free vacations. Like,
it's a fair process to both parties. I encourage people
(16:44):
to visit as many schools as they can, even if
it's a school you know you don't want to go to.
But like, let's say they are not the same at all.
But let's say that BU was very similar to Florida State.
If you live in the backyard of Florida State, you're
able to look up the amenities, the campus size, the
class size, all these things. You're able to look it
(17:05):
up online. So if you are in a situation where
you can get to an unofficial because you have to
pay for the unofficial, when you get there, you can
meet with the coach, you can see the facility. So
if you're, you know, in Boston for a tournament, go
visit Harbor NORTHEASTERNBC. When you're visiting places, visit schools that
you think you might be interested in, or visit schools
that are comparable to a school you might be interested in,
(17:26):
so you can get a feel. Right the minute I
stepped on Wisconsin's campus, I was like, that's it. I
knew I wasn't allowed to talk to the coaches, but
my dad could because he was the college liaison. So
he was talking at the time to Wisconsin about Lacas
and Brian Frickus and all these other people. And so
when we left Wisconsin, he was like, by the way,
(17:47):
Madison is locked in, like she loved everything about the school.
Like I had made my decision. I regret that. Oh,
I think that I would have.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I mean, I didn't commit to them, Like you can't
do no, no, no, But you think you would have made
the same decision.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
You think you would have changed your mind.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I think I would have still made the same decision.
Yet I don't regret anything about my college experience. We
won a national championship, I got a great education, great
alumni network. I love everything about being a Badger. However,
I wish that I had enjoyed the process more. I
was so excited and so consumed and like focused on
committing first and being an early commit and having everyone
(18:23):
know because then right I was getting all these letters.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Oh, it's easy to go to the ego, Like that's
an ego, play no offense, it just is yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
And then but then schools won't talk to you. Then
you have no and it looks really bad to decommit yeah,
or to double cross. Yeah. So then I didn't, and
it's the opposite. You have the worst reputation. And I
remember thinking that to myself when I went and visited
a friend of mine that was playing at Ohio State
when I was still in high school. I drove down
to Ohio State and I visited their campus. I went
(18:51):
to a party, who went to a football game, went
out afterwards, and I'm like, what if I would have
done this, yeah, just to like get the feel, you know,
because like when I when I visited was we went
to a football game, we went out to a party,
like you follow a student athlete around and like you
get to feel what it's like to be there. And
I just kind of wish I had enjoyed that more,
(19:12):
like just just I probably would have still made the
same decision. I think I didn't do that because in
my heart of hearts, I knew, like when I got
to Wisconsin, I stepped on campus, I was like I
was in love. Like there was nothing that could have
convinced me otherwise. I don't want to say I jumped
to the gum, because again I probably would have ended
up there, but I just wish I had enjoyed the
journey a little bit more like my dad was excited too.
I remember my dad called my mom in the in
(19:34):
the Chicago airport and he was like, she's all in,
and like my dad was crying. My mom was crying.
I was the first kid in my family to get
a scholarship to college.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, but I think the hard part in the college process,
especially when you're coming to it with the lens of athleticism.
And I will also say academia as well, because it's
all kind of similar. Right, If you apply as early
decision and you get in for academia for your grades,
there's an ego, oh there, no matter what you tell me,
(20:02):
you cannot convince me otherwise. Because it's cool. You want
to be the first one. You want to say this.
Like now we watch the kids on social media put
like Ohio State commit, be you commit, and like it's
part of the culture of the sport. You know, if
you were on social media at that time, you would
have had Wisconsin commit. You would have had a picture
(20:23):
of you on campus. Blah blah blah, whatever it is.
I was the complete opposite. Nobody knew who I was.
I sent an email to every single coach every tournament
that I played in. So I'm gonna start with some advice, right,
because this is kind of like my story, but also
just advice and good practice. I detailed about what gloves
I had, what color they were, what number I wore,
what if my hair was going to be down, what
(20:45):
color my helmet was, all of the things. Because if
I got blood on my jersey and I changed my
number and they're sitting there watching someone else, they would
have missed me, right, So I had to do a
very different process. I reached out to everybody, Hey, I
love your school, and like, what a loser.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
This was.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Before AI could automatically write my emails, I would be like,
go Huskies, go Terriers, go blah blah blah. Like I
would like pick everyone's mascot and make it really personal
and really really cute. My whole point in saying this
was I knew that I really wanted to go to
school to play hockey. I also fully was aware that
I wasn't one of the top recruit picks in our grade.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
I was at Waltham High School.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I wasn't even at a private school or a prep
school or a specialized team in Massachusetts. At the time,
they wouldn't even let me try out to be on
the prep team. I had to only play on the
public school team.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
So I was already at a disadvantage in all of
these places.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
All of that to say, I think that the biggest
piece of the pie is to be one hundred percent
sure that you want something, and that's like the foundation.
I was so positive that I wanted to play sports
in college that it didn't bother me that I had
to do all of that work and basically stand with
a sign that said please pick me. I never felt
(21:59):
like less. But I remember when I got the call.
I was working in a hockey skate shop and Brian
de Rocher called me, and it was after he had
come to a game and we had three d on
my high school hockey team. So I played the entire game.
I kept a water bottle on the goalies net. I
don't even think at that point I'm playing hockey. I
played skated for sixty full minutes like it was just
(22:20):
a gong show. And he called me, and I was
working at the skate shop, and I pick up the
phone like.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Any high schooler does. I probably was like, Hey, who's this.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
He was like it's Brian de Rocher from Boston University
twenty six, seventeen or five or something like that. And
I was like what, and he goes, those are the
numbers that you can choose from. We'd love to extend
you a walk on spot, and I bawled my eyes out,
called my mom. Same feeling of like immense pride, but
(22:49):
in a completely different world because there was no guarantees
that I was going to college, let alone college to
play sports.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
When we first met and you told me that you
were considering going to cosmetology school. No knock on cosmetology school,
no knock at all. I love my hairdresser. I drive
over an hour for every five weeks. But I was like, huh,
how different your life would have been, you know, not
negative or positive. I was just kind of like we
would have never met, we wouldn't have Waylan and Harlan Like,
(23:19):
it's just so interesting. And I almost went to be
you I love I know he was the We definitely
would not be married if I had gone.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
To be absolutely no, but I will say we might
have dated now also know what, because we don't date
teammates freaking remember the rules?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Like you dated a teammate at BU for like nine years.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Okay, moving on, shout out, Oh no.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
No thanks, no shout out necessary there, I will.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Say, though I maybe didn't anticipate making it, I would
have been okay playing club hockey somewhere, And I think.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
This is why you believe in yourself and you set
a beheady, big, very ambitious goal.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I also had a mentor. So here's the thing that
maybe like also sets me apart. Like, yes, that I
just set a goal shore, but at the time it
was like very fortuitous. The head coach of my high
school hockey team totally didn't like me.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
He told me that I was uncoachable.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I have to cut you off for a second. Yes,
I may have told my therapist today that you aren't
super coachable.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Oh that stinks.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Okay, well, you and my former coach were wrong. But
I had an enemy. I had all of the story
lines for a redemption arc. I had the common enemy, right.
I had the coach that didn't like me, and I didn't.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Like him back.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
It was equally mutually distasteful.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
So I had that right, and I had my why.
I really wanted to keep playing hockey. I loved it.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I thought there was no pro league, there was nothing
to really aspire towards.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I knew I was never going to go to the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Like I was very aware of my skill set, but
I thought this could be a vehicle for me to
continue to have friends, family, a team, like all the
things that I loved it. Ha'd some really major mental
health struggles in high school, and I felt like what
got me through was having a team.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
So I knew all these things that I wanted right
and then in comes my assistant coach.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
His name was Todd. He played at UMass Lowell. He
was a Riverhawk, so he played Division one. No business
coaching the Waltham Girls High school hockey team like go
Hawks for life, the Lady Hawks. We actually called ourselves
the Lady Hawks because our ponytails weren't indication enough. Completely insane,
but that being said, he looked at me and he said,
(25:31):
if you want it, you've got to do a bunch
of really uncomfortable stuff, but you can definitely get there.
You have to write the emails, you have to show
up to the rink when they're practicing and you're not invited.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
You know, they do these unofficial visit pools.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Like go visit Boston University and then like somebody, probably
like a member of the athletic department that doesn't even
want to be there, sets up a booth and like
doesn't really field questions, but like you got to go
up to those people and introduce yourself and make yourself
really like approachable and interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I did all of that stuff. I would have been
so bad at that.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
I did all of that stuff because I had a mentor.
I had somebody that I could trust, and then I
had him then advocate for me. Hey, can I have
them call you? Because if they called this head coach,
he's going to tell them' a piece of shit. And
I don't think I'm a piece of shit. I might be,
but I don't think so. All that to say when
you're going through the process of trying to go to school,
first of all, nothing is outside of your possibility. You
(26:26):
can do anything. And secondly, like if I didn't make
it on the Terriers, I would have gone to Boston
University and played on the club team. And you know
what I would have done on the club team. Continued
to email the coach and try to get pulled up
like I was insane about it. But I really really
wanted it, and I really wanted that to be shown.
In my first year at Boston University, I was roommates
(26:48):
with Kayleie Fratkin, who went on to have a nine
year pro career. I was roommates with Marie Philipe Poulen,
who was just the golden girl that freaking scored the
goal in the last Olympics, like the number one recruit
in the universe. And then Louise Warren, who was on
a full ride, came from private school, and I'm sitting
in our quad like, hi, guys, I don't even know
(27:09):
if I can skate comparatively to the three of you,
but I'm here just the same.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I like when you share that story, you're also like
too mean to yourself, because if you weren't good enough
to play at BU, you wouldn't play a BU. But
I think it's important, And I hope you know we're moms.
We cater to moms, we speak to moms. But I
hope if you're a mom listening to this podcast, that
you share it with your kiddo, because I think that
two things. One I say this all the time, Perception
is reality to the perceiver, right So if you walk
(27:51):
into a rink tomorrow in Boston, mass every parent you
talk to as a kid who's going D one seriously,
And it's no knock on parents, Like, it's just I
think that your your reality and your cadence for what
is realistic changes one once you've been through it, two
once you have a greater understanding of what that process
really looks like. I mean, I don't know the stat
(28:12):
right off the top of my head, but I think
less than one tenth of one percent of college athletes
go on to play pro. Our kids have two moms
that did both, and less than one percent of high
school athletes in all sport go on to play college sports.
That's D one, D two, D three because a lot
(28:33):
of kids play sports. Yeah, right, and you take into
account kids who drop out of sports. So encourage your
kids to stay in sport, but also encourage your kids.
It's not about the scholarship, the glamour, the this, the that. Like,
if your kid can get to that level, you've done
a damn good job of supporting them and chasing a dream,
of providing them opportunity to get to where they wanted
(28:54):
to go. But just having a kid who is able
to balance college academics and sports or join a different
kind of club, Like I think that we get so
lost in the allure, speaking specifically of hockey, right, Yeah,
you can spend upwards of twenty five thirty thirty five,
I mean a semester of college just for a year
of youth sports. My mom used to always joke, I'll
(29:17):
buy you any car you want if you get a
college scholarship. Then when I got a college scholarship, my
dad was like, yeah, your youth hockey has paid for
ten cars. You're all set, kid, like where you're not
getting a car for college scholarship. That's not the reason
that you do it right. And don't get discouraged if
you don't get right where you want to be, because
there's a reason that you don't. Like you tell the
(29:37):
story all the time of and you just talked to
you just mentioned it, like if you really want to
go to BU and you can't play on their D
one team, go play club. Kids get moved up all
the time. We saw it at Sacred Heart right in
our backyard. I used to train there with Rob. There
was a kid on the club team. They had a
few players get hurt he was a goalie, he got
pulled up. He played two years of varsity hockey at
Sacred Heart and ended up getting a scholarship. Like things happen,
(29:59):
and obviously those are one off stories, but the overarching
theme of all of it. If you want to do it,
get a mentor find an advocate, get a coach who believes,
and you listen to the coach, do the extra work.
But you can't do all of that with the expectation
that by doing so you are absolutely going to reach
what you view as the finish line. You have to
(30:20):
do those things regardless, not in spite of and I
think that that's the biggest thing.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
I'll also add to that.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
My mom didn't do anything to help me, and I always,
in the moment was maybe mad at her about it,
like frustrated, But later in life I've really appreciated that
because I mean, we say it right, like, did my
mom ever shake me awake and say, hey, why don't
you go shoot a thousand pucks?
Speaker 3 (30:45):
No?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Really, that never happened. She never ever ever told me
to do that. But I remember being like, hey, Mom,
I put a hole in the garage because I was
shooting a thousand pucks. And the difference is, had she
told me to do it, I would have done it
because she said so. But I wouldn't have done it
because I wanted it right, Like, you're in a different position.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
You had like the private.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Skating coaches, the shooting tutors, like all the support, and yes,
did your parents organize it, probably, but they didn't go
out on the ice and try for you. Right, Like,
had I not sent all those emails, imagine my mom
sent a thousand emails to different coaches and then sourced
me the opportunity to be a recruited walk on the
first day of training camp, it be you. When I
(31:26):
was throwing up on an air bike, I would have
quit because I didn't care.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Also, just if you take nothing else from this podcast,
don't be that parent. Yeah, don't be that parent. That's
what I'm trying to say. Which on the planet wants
to talk to you. No coach on the planet, even
even high school coaches. When I coached at the rink,
Now I walk into the rink, into the locker room,
talk to my girls, onto the ice after the game,
I walked straight out. Yeah, if it's a big problem,
(31:53):
then the kid needs support. Sure, but your kids want
to play college sports, your kids are moving away from home.
They have to have hard conversations. Kids now can't talk.
I don't mean that literally, but like they don't know
how to have hard conversations because everything is on I
just learned this. Actually it's not even text anymore. It's
all snapchat, right, Like their conversations are all through the phone,
(32:14):
through FaceTime, through Snapchat, which, by the way, FaceTime is
just having a face to face conversation with no accountability
because you don't have to stand there and own it.
Your kids need to have those conversations themselves, otherwise they
will get to college and they will fail.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
And I think the piece that really brought it home again.
I didn't feel unsupported, but I definitely felt like it
was my job to go find that opportunity for myself.
And I remember my freshman year, they did this big
table sat banquet where all the parents came. After the
first scrimmage, we brought some team in from like you know,
North Canada, beat the snot out of them and then whatever,
(32:48):
Like that was the first game of the year and
Beattie is loving Lee. Brian de Rocher, the former coach
at BU now it's Tarawatschhorn, former teammate. She's the best,
but we'll not talk about that. Bed gets up in
front of everybody and says, parents, it was amazing to
meet you. It was amazing to speak to you. He
spent time going to every table introducing himself, and he said,
this will be the first and last conversation we have.
(33:09):
While it was nice to meet you, I look forward
to shaking your hand when your child graduates from Boston University.
And we are since done with each other. I don't
want to hear from you. I don't want to receive
an email. I'm not concerned about your thoughts on your
daughter's playing time. This is my house. These are my
children now, and it was fabulous to meet you. And
(33:29):
I was shit scared. I was so afraid. I was like,
first of all, this man's a psychopath. But then I
was like, you know what, he's a what.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Togeters do to us?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I was like, what, I don't want to be in
this house.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I regret everything I've ever decided, and I now want
to transfer to Northeastern No.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
But I remember in.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
That moment being like I'm on my own now, and
I prepared myself for this moment, and I'm so thankful
that my mom didn't force me into a position that
I might not care about.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I cared with every fiber of my being.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
And I think the parenting advice that we can gleam
out of this is, if your kid wants to do something,
they're gonna do it. You insulate them with support, You
give them some advice, you let them know that you
listen to two old hats whine about it on a podcast,
but you give them the love and support that they need.
You tell them that they can, and you encourage them,
and you listen to their thoughts, and you shape them
into goals and you continue.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
To help them.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
But you never choose the goal for your kid. They
won't care. They just won't. So if I could give advice,
that's what I leave our parents with on this, What
about you give me like a snappy, good piece of
advice here.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah, my advice would be I think very similar, But like,
as your kids grow up and chase their dreams, right,
most good parents, that's what they want to do. They're
trying to enable their little bird to fly away from
the nest. And I think that, or I hope that
most parents have had, whether you're an athlete or not,
a good teacher, a good mentor a good coach, a
(34:56):
good something, and enable your kid to to find that
person because while like, oh my goodness, I might cry, guys,
while you hope to always be that person for your kid,
you need to empower them to go experience life on
their own so that they come home right. Like. That's
a huge part of what we're doing is enabling. And
(35:18):
you can't live vicariously through your kid. And I think
that that's a huge advantage that our kids have is
we've done it. I don't give a shit if Whylan
is the best kid on the baseball team or he
just wants to sit on the cooler and eat ice cubes.
I really don't. I don't care if he's a great
left fielder or he wants to sit out there and
pick daisies. I just want my kid to be happy.
But because we've done it, we've been there. I want
(35:39):
him to push himself. I want him to succeed. I
want him to achieve everything that he's capable of. But
him being successful has nothing to do with me. I
give him the tools, right, And so that's what you
have to remember if you want it more than your
kid go, it's never gonna happen. Let it go and
help them find something that gets them. So, I mean
(36:02):
like if you cut my arms off, pucks fallout. I
love hockey to my core. My kids don't feel that way.
They might not ever feel that way. Harlan a little bit.
She's getting there. But help them find something that they
want to be successful in. Because if you love what
you do, and you do what you love.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
You will be successful.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I fully, so that's my whether it's D one, D
three community college, your kid will find the right environment
for them and that should be enough. Be proud of that. Amen.
That's it for this week.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Thanks for listening, and if you like what you heard,
spread the word seriously right now, take your phone out,
Text a.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Friend and tell them to subscribe, and be sure to
rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify if
you haven't already. It really really helps Until next week.
I'm Madison Packer.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And I'm Anya Packer, and this was These Packs Puck.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
These Packs Puck is a production of iHeart Women's Sports
and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment, hosted by us Madison
and Anya packer. Emily Mehronoff is our senior producer and
story editor. We were mixed and mastered by Mary dew.
Our executive producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz, and Ali Perry.
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