December 3, 2024 • 42 mins
After 146 games at the University of Wisconsin, two gold medals with Team USA, and 154 games over nine years in professional leagues, Madison has announced her retirement from pro hockey. Just after the news broke, she sat down with Anya to reflect on her remarkable career. Together, they explore Madison’s journey and how she came to realize that hockey is much more than just a game — from her early days with the Riveters to finding her voice as an advocate for mental health and LGBTQ+ rights. Renowned as a captain, friend, confidante, and pioneer, Madison played a pivotal role in shaping the landscape of women’s hockey, leaving the sport better than she found it. Tune in for Madison’s heartfelt final love letter to the game, and get a peek at what’s next for her off the ice.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer. I'm a recently retired pro
hockey bet. I was a founding member of the National
Women's Hockey League, a pillar in the PHF, and an
inaugural member of the PWHL.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Simons And I'm Anya Packer, also a former pro hockey
player and now a full Madison Packer.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Stan Banya and I met through hockey and now we're
married and moms. So two Austin toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And this is these packspots where we talk about everything
for professional women's athletes, to sports, to raising children and
all the messiness in between.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Hi, Maddy pack How are we doing today?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
We're doing It's been a year long week.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I feel that I'm excited to get into it today.
Let's go so a little bit of a different episode,
I guess in lieu of a hockey hot take. We're
going to talk about some hot take news from the week.
Maybe I announced my retirement from playing professional hockey.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I mean, it's been a prolific career. I just want
to run it by the numbers really quickly. You played
one hundred and forty six games at Wisconsin. You scored
forty six goals, fifty eight assists, had one hundred and
four points. You were a national champion. It's about a
fifty to fifty split. You had two gold medals an
international play for Team USA. You actually might be the
(01:24):
only person to wear the jersey that's never lost to
Canada ever. In one hundred and one hundred and fifty
four games played across nine years as a professional athlete,
you had one hundred and thirty points. You had sixty
five goals and sixty five assists, perfect fifty to fifty
percent split. You spent one hundred and eighty one minutes
in the penalty box. That is almost three full hockey
(01:46):
games sat in the box.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
So you, while that is all very.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Impressive, you were a captain, a friend, a confidant, an advocate,
a leader, a pioneer, and truly you change the game
of women's And not to be dramatic, but I truly
believe you did change the world.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
After we started dating.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Well, I will say there was a little influence here,
but you took every opportunity to use your platform to
create impact and change, from the LGBTQ plus community to
drug addiction and overdose. You never let a moment pass
without speaking for good in the world.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
So thank you.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I'm so proud of you. I didn't cry, I did
thank you for that. I appreciate that. I think for me,
the best part of the journey has been just that.
For a long time, hockey was just hockey. It was
a game, it was fun, it was stats, it was
all these things. And then at some point during my
(02:44):
time with the Riveters, it became about so much more.
And maybe it was being a part of that first
wave of women that were paid to play in North America,
and we saw the difference that we could make, the
hope that we could give, and not even just to
little kids. Right, we always talk about changing things for
the next generation, but what about the women who are
watching us do it, who didn't have the chance, right,
(03:05):
who are now moms, who are now decision makers, They're
changed drivers, And that's a whole other wave of people
that was inspired. And so I think that you start
to see the power of your voice and the power
of change and the hope that it can bring in.
That was the best part and will continue to be
the best part of the job, and the journey is
just the number of lives that you can touch. And
(03:27):
the impact that you can make and the importance of that,
especially now more than ever.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Right, Yeah, I mean I remember when I retired, I
felt lost, but I could live vicuriously through you. I
could go to the gym with you when I had
the opportunity to, I could go coach you when I
had the opportunity to. I really felt like your hockey
career kind of became like the thing I could attach to.
(03:52):
And I think there's so many people in our life
that feel that way about you, and heavy is the burden,
Like that's not lost on me that you spent so
many years.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Continuing to fight and climb.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And I think your career has been so so beautiful,
and I think the way that you've handled every moment
has been with grace, and it's been something that I
try to take in my life and has inspired me
to be a better person in other walks of my life.
So I haven't processed yet that I'm not going to
see you playing hockey, but I can say that, you know,
it's gotten tough with the kids, you know, a four
(04:26):
and a two year old. This last weekend going to Toronto.
I was on the plane and listen, they're good kids,
but it's hard to get them to like be malleable
all the time and want you and know where you are.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
And have that hardship.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And I think developmentally the kids need their mama like
they need you now.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Well, yeah, and I believe that the universe gives you
what you need, and it may not always be what
you want. Right. I wanted to play hockey as long
as I could. I worked really hard to play for
one more year and in the end and that just
wasn't what we needed. I don't think. I think that
we both know that my body was at its limit,
(05:08):
the kids were at their limit, You were at your limit.
But everyone was all in on this last chapter. And
I think a big part of that was the way
last season went and separating my shoulder, and that just sucked,
Like I was like, this cannot be it. But then
it wasn't right. You guys got to come up to Toronto,
and I said in my exit meeting that I was
grateful because I got to play one more game in
(05:30):
front of you and the kids and my parents were
up there. I mean, that was the most fun I've
had playing hockey in a long time. Had a smile
on my face, the whole time felt like my old
self and the kids got to see that. The kids
were cheering in the stands like that was fun for me.
And prior to that, my last memory on the fun
side of the glass was not a good one. And
(05:52):
so I'll get to forever have that. I'm grateful for that.
But then also it's like, okay, well this is it,
Like what next? And I always said I wanted to
play long enough for the kids to remember. Well, the
kids are going to remember, and I think Harlan it'll
probably be fuzzy for but I think that she'll have
like glimpses of remembering being there and doing things. I
(06:13):
got to bring her on the bus up in Toronto.
And what's made this the last few days a little
bit easier for me, and I just keep reminding myself
of is that the most important thing in our life
now is the kids. And when I told Whale that
I wasn't going to play anymore, I was nervous because
I thought that he wasn't going to take it. While
he was going to be upset, right, He loves the
locker room. He loves Aunt Schroeds, like all about the
goalies going in the room, whatever, and I said, I
(06:35):
got to tell you something. Mom's not going to play
hockey anymore, and expecting him to give me his like
powdy frownie face, he literally lit up with the biggest
smile we've ever seen. And that's not even being dramatic.
I was like concerned as to why he was so happy.
I felt a little sadistic to me in the moment,
and I was like why. I was like, are you happy?
And he said, hmm. I said why and he said
(06:56):
it's he said, because you don't have to go away anymore.
Like it wasn't a conversation I guess i'd had because
you just always knew that mama had to go to hockey,
you know, And now I don't. And it's been hard
for him, right, We've been talking about it. It's been
these last couple of weeks have been really hard for him.
We spend a lot of time together, and I think
(07:17):
for him, I didn't recognize, like, I know how hard
it's been for me, but I'm like, I'm an adult
and this is my job and I have to suck
it up. Like he didn't really get a choice in
the matter, and he had no concept of you know,
the time counting down and whatever, and then one day
it was just I was gone for long periods of time,
and I think that that was hard for him.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, it definitely was. But at the end of the day,
we were all so locked into your success. All summer
we were dialed into it. Training was different, the diet
was different.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Everything we did was to get you to the place
where you made the team right. That was the thing
that we were pushing towards. And we got to the
bitter end and you performed at your peak capabilities. You
were at you know, the best in class for Madison
Packer Hockey. You truly showed them that there isn't a
(08:09):
limit or restriction. The goal was to get faster. You
did that by a tremendous amount. The goal was to
be stronger, You did that by a tremendous amount. The
goal was to climb the ranks and show that you
could be and you were. And so for all intentsive purposes,
this is a success on every level.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I think when you were.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Tired, people just forget how hard you work to get
to that point and make that decision, and that decision
felt imminent to you. Whether it was today or six
months from now, this was going to be your last
trip on that side of the glass. And we've you know,
I couldn't be more proud of what you showed our
children and what that looks like and what we can
turn around and point to from the perspective of work hard,
(08:52):
do the right things, the results will follow, and when
they don't, you weren't meant for them anyway, and you
were meant for this new thing. And this new thing
for you is really beautiful.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Well, and I think the biggest thing, honestly, that I've
learned in this and it's why maybe I think I'm
processing it so much better than I thought I would.
This summer was so good for me, right, Like if
you tell me I can't do something, buckle up, right.
It's just like such a fun challenge to me. It's
my whole life, and like I gave it every single
thing I had, and with everything in life, especially sports.
(09:27):
Now that's been my longest and most recent experience, but
it's translatable to everything in life. You're always going to
have someone judging you, You're always going to have some benchmark,
you're always going to have something, but you're also going
to always know your truth and the truth. So for me,
the goal was clear, but in the end, I didn't
(09:49):
have power or impact over anything other than my attitude
in my effort, and so at the end of the day,
the decision was going to be. Whatever the decision was,
we can agree to disagree, but I know my truth
in knowing that I did absolutely everything I could and
should and I showed up and I was excellent, and
(10:10):
at the end of the day, if that's not enough,
then that's the answer. But I can walk away proud
knowing this is my body of work, this is what
I present, and we can agree to disagree or whatever,
but this is me and I'm proud of that, and
I'm confident in that pride, and you can't take anything
away from that. And so for me, that mentality came
(10:36):
from the work that I did this summer and walking
in the gym and being scared as hell because those
workouts were actually awful. Like looking back, I'm like, why
why did we do? Like? I think that was the
first thing that came to my mind. I was like
those five weeks on the kitchen floor crying, But I
wouldn't have gotten to the place mentally that I have
if I hadn't gone through that so directly, indirectly, whatever,
(11:01):
everything has purpose and everything has reason. So I'm grateful
for that, and I know my truth. I know what
I did, like can't bring me down.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Well, you sound very clear, and I love that because
this can be a very confusing time and it doesn't
sound that for you.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
So I'm also very new into this right so like you,
But I truly think that for me, just being able
to know my truth and I'm just going to enjoy
it right like that, there were talking about a nine
year career where I don't even know whatever the stats
and points whatever you shared, Like that's cool, but what's
(11:39):
so much more enjoyable to me is like reconnecting with
the people that I've crossed paths with and like we
were talking about this the other night, like one, so
many people have privately reached out to me that I
never thought would and just like you know, some frustrations
that we've talked about in the past of like this
cybers that side this versa, like we have all been
(12:01):
working for the same thing towards the same common goal.
We had different visions on what that looked like to
get there, but not what that looked like, right, And
I think that without that battle, would we even be here,
because would women's hockey be as relevant like that drama
and that that storyline kept it in the game.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
For a while.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Well, I obviously want to keep going.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I mean, naturally we could keep going back and forth
on this, but the episode has structure, so we're going
to do our check in. I know that that could
be you know, one hundred to zero at any given
moment while you go through this journey.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
But tell me where you're at right now.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I'm in eighty two. That's higher than I thought you
were going to say. Well, we're up in Boston, so
that's nice just being around family and people. So I'm
with my people in one of my happy places. I
had my first day as a stay at home mom
today and I loved that co I like then, I
lost hard, but it was like kind of. I also
(13:00):
got in a fight with a seven year old at
the playplace. Yeah that thinks that was pretty amazing, but
I don't know. I just had fun. And like we
walked in Harlan Poop, I didn't have a diaper, the
mall was closed. The place we were going was closed,
Like I tried to buy a pass and I wasn't
understanding the dates. I got an argument with the lady
at the counter of the play place, and those kids
(13:21):
were being bullies to Harlan, so I had to step in.
Like it was just so much chaos, but I don't
even care, because it was just spending time with them.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I love that, And I also appreciate that you have
continued to be a bull in a china shop regardless
of the format. You're gonna still be trying to get
a penalty on or off the ice in motherhood. So
good work. I'm I'm in a weird spot. I mean,
I honestly want to say. I'm like, I feel like
I'm like fifty, Like, I am so happy that you're home.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
I'm so happy to have you back.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I'm so excited that everything has played out the way
that it is. I'm so blessed with the embrace of
your retirement. I am so in love with watching you
play hockey, though, So I'm sad, but I love you
and I'm proud of you, and I'm excited about it.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
But I can't lie that, Like it feels sad to.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Me to know that I'll never watch my best friend
do or favorite thing in the world, even though I
know that your favorite thing in the world is hang
out with our kids, is to be a mom, is
to do all the other things. But when I met
you and none of those things existed yet that was
your favorite thing.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
It wasn't even hanging out with me. I wish it was.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I wish it was like karaoke and some dive bar
in New York City, but it wasn't. It was taking
a ginger pill and going and playing hockey easy.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Don't excluse me. Actually, in fairness, I think it was
my second what was your first? Hanging out on the
lake with my favorite people up north will always be
my favorite thing in the world.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Yeah, that's a pretty good thing.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I wrote down some eras of your iconic cocky journey,
and I wanted to kind of talk about those because
I think they're all really funny to me, and so
I kind of categorize them in a few different ways.
I call it the best Friend's team because the team
that you were on with Courtney Burke, Jenny Ryan, and
Rebecca Russo will always be in my mind the best
friend's team. Like, yeah, there's like start of the league,
(15:27):
like start of the NWHL, like when we all kind
of started that. But I actually wasn't dating you during
that time, So that's a lost era to me. The
best friend team era was quite possibly when you were
in the rarest form I've ever seen you be. You
guys were hellions across Jersey City and Bewrak City.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
It was actually foul like we would. I actually can't
believe we're married. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I didn't like you at all when you were in
that I mean, that era is hilarious to me now
as we look back, But while whilst you were in
that era, you totally not like you.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
You were such a bum, but you guys wanted.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Isabelle, nice catch, nice catch. You were a bomb, but
you wont an isabel cup. So talk about that era
because I remember there was a game we were beating
you guys five to nothing. We were killing you. I
played for the Whale. We were absolutely shellacking you. And
in the third period I think it was you guys
netted five goals and then the first ot we had
(16:22):
a penalty and Courtney Burke bombs won from the point
and you tipped it in on a power play, which
is so annoying to me, and you guys won. So
talked about the best Friend's era. Talking about that felt like,
I mean, winning an Isabel Cup.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
It was fun. It was Jersey City circa Mac and Cheese.
We won an Isabel Cup.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
We ate was your Miller Lite era as well?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah, we ate craft Mac and Cheese out of the
Isabel Cup. Russo Courtney Jenny lived in Jersey City, right
in the water together. Kessel was there too. I used
to go over all the time, Like it just was.
It was fun. Like the league was starting to get hype,
so like everyone started getting arrogant and you guys would
like get into bars without the cover.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
It was like so annoying. You guys were so annoying.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
It was fun, super fun. You guys were all very good,
and then you won the Isabelle Cup. Actually, Alexa Grushaw
scored this like ridiculous goal where she was like falling
down getting tripped by buffalo. I had to go through
this moment where we were dating. I was on the whale,
but there is a spectator supporting you and celebrating you
guys winning a cup whilst being so jealous and so angry.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Your parents were there.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Anton Carter was there.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Yeah, Anson Carter was there.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And then we went to Reds and you guys poured
beer from the tap into the Isabelle Cup and just
passed it around.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Like how everyone didn't get ill.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
I'm not certain.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Full circle moment. Now that the New York Sirens are
back at the Prudential Center, we will be frequenting Reds again.
Save us a We're going meet you there, Reds. Yeah,
we are so highlight of that era. Winning the Isabelle Cup,
getting a Ribs jersey on the wall at Reds and
probably losing Jenny on the jersey shore for eighteen hours. Well,
(18:04):
that era was iconic.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
The next era that I loved so much was the
Leary to Packer era. You've got to bring it up,
You've got to talk about it was season five. It
was a tough time. It was you know, when the
CWHL had folded. It was the rise of the PWHPA.
It kind of felt like nobody really wanted to play
in the NWHL at the time. And you, Kaylee Fraken,
(18:27):
you signed contracts, you kind of stayed with it because,
like we said, it was never a disagreement to where
we wanted to be and what the tip of the
mountain looked like. It was just a difference of opinion.
So in that era, you know, the league was down
a little bit, I'm.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Not going to lie a lot bit a lot bit.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And and then Kate Leary from Boston College, who I
loathe because I'm a proud Terrier, played for the Riveters,
and I swear to you every single puck that went
in the net that year was Leary to Packer, Packer
to Leary, Leary to the to the boards, off your
butt in the net. Like I couldn't stand that year.
(19:02):
I mean, it was so I mean, it was amazing,
It was so much fun. I was doing the color
commenting and I just couldn't stop saying Leary and Packer.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
That was an era and a team and a year
that so many people who will never get credit or
acknowledgement or anything. Without the ped up forming that year,
women's hockey wouldn't be where it is today. But also
without the NWHL continuing to go on, women's hockey wouldn't
be where it is today because they then kept each
(19:33):
other in check and in balance, right, And there's no
there was never any like belief that the best players
were certainly not missing from that league, but we needed
enough players to keep the league afloat. To have a league, right, like,
you have to have players. And there are so many
women who stepped up and stepped in and like some
(19:56):
I mean again like New York being the expensive market
and hard to pull players into. Like it was a
long year. It was a lot of leary to packer,
but it was also like so much fun.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Yeah, that year was like no expectations.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
That year again, everything that year was about so much
more than just the hockey and the fan engagement and
where did we practice? It was so far away, it's
like two hours away.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
No, that were the games were Mama Junction.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yeah, that was a good era, but we probably shouldn'tdell
on that one much because there were there weren't many
fans there. So let's go on to the next one.
Listeners don't care about that one.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Then the next one was the Riveters rebuild era, call
it the Mall era, call it the international era, whatever
that may look like. It was a crazy team with
every language spoken under the sun. You guys had Finns,
you had Swedes, you had some players from Hungary. You
had yourselves, You had Canadians like that team that Riveter's
(20:54):
Rebuilding era with Steel Rosy Black Rosie mental.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Health games and us was on the team. Like the
whole team was just.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Different, better, And I just felt like that was peak Riveters.
Like you guys were humming.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah, that was fun. That showed the power of one
in athlete's voice to just the impact that you can
have on the community. We did so many specialty games
and raised awareness for so many different causes and initiatives
like that was a fun year because it felt like
there was so much purpose in everything that we were doing.
(21:30):
And like you mentioned, Black Rosie, it was the first
time a woman of color was featured on a sports
uniform ever. I think it was the highest selling piece
of merch in the entire league in the history of
the league. It went viral, Like Kim Davis from the
NHL still has one, still talks about it. That was incredible,
just the environment at the game and just the culture
(21:51):
that was brought and the fans that we were able
to reach and the mental health game. All the people
that then reached out after the fact that the organizations
we were able to partner with. It was so much
fun and it just shows you the power of sport
and the change that you can drive through it.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, I mean, and I think in that era is
also you know, kind of that black Rosi era that
we just talked about. But like you know, Erica Ayala,
Joe Dabney, Jasmine Baker, Ari Chambers was at the game
we celebrated. This actually was at a point in time
when I was also the general manager of the Riveters,
but we celebrated black women for a purpose, for an
(22:26):
intention about Rosie the Riveter and how black rosies existed
in the world, and really said that with our chests.
As well as it did, it also brought on a
lot of flack and a lot of like generational.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Undoings that we had to do in the hockey community.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And I just felt like at that point you were
so dialed in to doing that and that's not always
easy to do. And then we go into Pride that
year that was when the NHL started allowing players to
like forego wearing Pride jerseys and then actually went on
to ban Pride jerseys.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
And I remember so.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Clearly, right, we asked you to do a piece. We
asked you to do.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
You know, hey, you're gonna wear this pride jers. You're
gonna launch it to everybody, beautiful jersey.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
And you said, I.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Said, if my jersey offends you, you can.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Stay home, essentially saying it's only acceptance here. There's only
space here. So if you're gonna feel offended, if you're
going to voice your offense, I'm actually actively asking you
not to come. And I think that that's where you
drew a really clear line with the moral compass in sport,
and it's really hard to do pack Like people will
(23:36):
accept deals from companies that they don't believe in all
the time because money's green. That's a really important thing
for the captain of a franchise to say because it
made so many people feel safe, actually have psychological safety
in your space. And that is the biggest thing that
we see now through this retirement is people saying thank
(23:56):
you for creating safe Safe.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
It was shortly after that I did the interview question
where I got asked about, you know, why I took
the stance that I did. And this is a celebratory episode,
but we're gonna get serious for a second because this
is a topic that I'm actually so intensely passionate about
when you talk about the impact and the platform and
the visibility that you have with kids. You know, it's
(24:23):
hard because you're an athlete, right, and you shouldn't have
to compromise your moral compass or your beliefs or your values.
And I believe that too. But then say nothing, yeah,
because because you do have an obligation as an athlete
to live in positivity full stop. And so if you
can't say something nice or you can't support for whatever reason,
(24:48):
that's fine. I'm not saying that everyone has to wear
a Pride jersey and everyone has to support the LGBTQ
plus community. Because I believe in free speech. I believe
in freedom of religion. But you have no idea who
looks up to you and who values your opinion. And
so when you tell people that they literally don't have
a right to exist, you are doing harm, especially when
we're talking about kids who are killing themselves at a
(25:10):
rate unprecedented in history. Right. LGBTQ plus youth have the
highest suicide rate in the world in the country times two.
That's crazy. We're talking about kids. So if you can't
say something positive, then say nothing and so that's why
I cared so much, because we were talking about kids
and jerseys.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Yeah. Facts.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So then the next era, and what I will call
maybe the final era, is the New League era. The
New League launching with four hundred thousand plus butts and seats.
That era doesn't find you, but it does define the sport.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
It was the.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
First time that on an international scale, the league had reach,
whether that be through broadcasting, whether that be through visibility,
social media, just all the carts pulling in the same direction.
For the first time ever, the league had true reach.
So that is the most recent era. That's the era
(26:24):
that you end on. It's not the era that defines you.
It's not the air that defines any of us, but
the most recent era.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, I think that that era was the most difficult
for me, but maybe not for reasons that people think.
So you have to remember that, like, this is what
we've all wanted, truly, and when it came out, it
was announced like because this narrative within women's hockey had
(26:54):
been so us versus them, petub versus and the slush PHF.
Like I think if you talk to a lot of
the players, it was kind of hogwash, Like, yeah, there
was like versus, but like not really, it wasn't this
like big, tumultuous battle. And I feel that animosity sometimes
even still more from some people than others. And it's
(27:17):
just always confusing to me because like, it really wasn't
that right, and so it wasn't the point of it. Yeah.
But so then when you bring the leagues together, and
this is the part that I think is maybe difficult
for some to understand, but actually super important because it
tells a huge part of the story that maybe isn't told.
(27:39):
When these leagues came together, more than fifty percent of
the league was former PHF players. A lot of those
players were tenured INWHL or PHF players, And so what
felt like, you know, a win loss situation, which it
really wasn't. It was a win for women's hockey full Sea.
It was a win, but it felt like a bad
(28:00):
like these two sides and then like this announcement happens,
et cetera. There was a deep sense of grief and
loss for the players of the NWHL slash PHF. But
now this opportunity comes about and you have to move
forward in positivity because this is the best thing for
women's hockey. However, this is a really sad thing that
(28:24):
has happened to the PHF and these other teams, and
these things like I played for the same team for
eight years. That only happens to this point. I mean,
like WNBA if players have done it, but that's a
long time to play for the same team. And now
all of those teams that players had deep rooted connections
with are just gone. All those brands are gone, and
(28:46):
you feel like this a huge part of your identity
is gone. And oh, by the way, if you want
to continue going forward and making a difference and choosing
your passion and that drive, you just got to jump
right into this new thing and hope that an unknown
landscape with unknown people, with people who think that your
motives are maybe what they're not. And there were so
many people going through that, and in the moment I was,
(29:07):
it was just like, okay, guys, this is a good thing.
We're gonna be okay, because what else do you do.
You have to want your choice, yeah, and you have
to tell people like you want what's best for the
game and for the people. So while it might be
confusing and might not seem right, this is the best
thing move forward and we'll slowly figure it out together.
But there was a deep sense of loss in that
(29:28):
situation that I think for me last year and a
big part of why I chose to come back and
give it one more. And I'm glad I did, because
last year I felt like I wasn't myself, because I
was trying to figure out this new role and this
new identity and like how I fit in and like
all while also grieving, you know, anytime I saw a
Riveter's jersey, anytime I got asked a Riveters question, like
(29:48):
I love that team, I love those fans, but it's
a hard thing to turn off for me because we're
not the Riveters anymore. We're moving forward with this new thing,
and that's the goal, is to drive this new thing forward,
not dwell in the past when maybe sometimes we should.
Maybe we should talk about it, Maybe we should bring
those fans in and let them feel seen and heard,
(30:09):
and maybe they will then in turn support this new
thing because this is what we all want, this is
what is best. But I think some of that got
lost because it needed to feel like a victorious moment,
when in the end, if you wanted anything other than
women's hockey to win. You were doing it for the
wrong reason and it wasn't genuine and so I think
that my response was it's for women's hockey. It has
(30:31):
to be. But I also, you know, want to bring
to light that like that was a hard thing. And
so that's how heartbreak ere too. Like a part of
this new era is now this season, like I'm so
glad I came back, Like I got to have fun,
I got to not feel that way in the locker room,
Like I think I cracked my first joke ever on
the bus. It just was a different vibe, and so,
(30:54):
you know, that's a big part of it.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
What do you think across this entire career was your
most cherished moment?
Speaker 3 (31:01):
So I have a few, but I think the one
that stands out the most is actually not really a
hockey moment, but kind of when we had the All
Star Game in Nashville and I wore the Kylepavone Foundation hats,
So for people that don't know, the Kypavone Foundation was
founded by the family of my friend Kyle Pavone, who
(31:22):
was the singer for the band Became as Romans, who
died of an accidental drug overdose. In twenty eighteen. He
was a childhood friend of mine, grew up in the
same neighborhood. His brother played hockey with my brother, just
close families. So when that happened, it was really hard.
And then I started, you know, looking at kind of
what was happening in my hometown and where I'm from,
(31:42):
and a lot of loss. And so that year for
the All Star Game, I was on Zabados's team, and
it was just like a lot of people that I
didn't really know. And again, sometimes going into those environments,
people like don't know me. They think I am the
way that I play. And I remember the response from
player being just phenomenal, and the number of players who
(32:03):
reached out to me that were like, thank you so
much for doing this, like people who had been personally
touched by these different things, whether it was drug overdose
or suicide or different mental health you know, struggles and initiatives.
And we raised a ton of money, drove a ton
of awareness. Then continued to go on to partner with
the Kyleplpone Foundation. That was kind of the launching pad
for then, Okay, how can we make this bigger? How
(32:23):
can we do more? So I think for me now
looking back and seeing the impact we've been able to
make in those different areas and avenues and the conversation
that we've been able to drive. And so for me,
I think that that's just the biggest one that stands
out because I think that that's when I learned how
powerful our voices can be and the change that we
(32:45):
can bring when we get passionate and when we care.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
I mean it.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Then started the Let's Talk about It hats campaign, and
I remember when you got a sleeve of hats. We
started with just one box of hats that said let's
talk about it, and it was mental health banner on
one side and the addiction awareness banner on the other side.
And the gentleman that we had used to print them said,
thank you, I'm sober.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
I really appreciate you pushing this forward.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Yeah, and he donated all of them.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
So then we started with that sleeve of hats and
you put one on before a game. You said, i't
to wear one every game and I'm gonna sign it
and I'm going to raffle it off. Well, every single
teammate of yours said, give me a hat.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
I want to join you. I want to wear it.
I want to be involved.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
And I remember that game having every single player skate
out to the blue line wearing a let's talk about
It hat Again, Like, there's some moments of you that
define to me how powerful your career was. But that
moment right there, eighteen skaters wearing a hat that said
let's talk about it with mental health and drug addiction
(33:49):
overdose banners on them, I just thought to myself, Wow,
this is more than hockey. This career is a lot
more than hockey. You had a bunch of eras and
plenty that I've skied. Is there one era that will
continue to fuel you into your next era?
Speaker 3 (34:07):
I think for me it will be the Riveter's rebuilding era.
Like I said before, the first Riveters team will forever
be the best team I ever played on, and that's
a group that I owe everything to. Being a part
of that team was invaluable to my career and my
growth and just everything. It takes a tremendous amount of
(34:29):
a lot of things special to go to the rink
every day and know you're going to get your ass
kicked in and your teeth kicked in and still show
up and give it everything you got. This is not
a knock on those women. Just to clarify, it was
a combination of like it was New York, it was
expensive to live, that the maximum player was getting twenty
grand Da da da dah. So I just want to
give a shout out to those women because I am
(34:50):
not here truly without them. I ended up having the
longest career out of that bunch, and I think a
huge part of that is a less that I learned
from all those women Off the ice. They were incredible,
and that is a group of women who completely changed
the landscape of women's hockey. But the Rebuilding era allowed
me to learn more about myself as a person and
(35:13):
feel less pressure as an athlete. It was a whole
lot of fun from a hockey perspective, a lot of
All Star Games, whatever, But the hockey was the least
important part. It was the access to everything else around
that through that Rebuilding era. Although I will say a
huge knock on that era was that I had to
work for my wife.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
So I love that era. I actually would like to
go back to that era.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
If you, I know you would, you would tell my
kidneys to go back to that era. Well, I love that.
So what is what is the new era?
Speaker 4 (35:41):
What is the thing?
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
You know, Madison the hockey coach? Is it Madison the broadcaster?
Is it Madison the Sirens ambassador?
Speaker 4 (35:48):
What is the perfect next role for you? What would
you do if you could do anything right now?
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Well, my wife and I have this podcast mom sooop
hawk yo we do if you're listening, self plug there.
I don't know. I think that I'm going to take
some time to make up for lost time or just
enjoy being around the kids. I have missed so much
of the kids. Whalen is a full grown adult, needs
a checking account and a job application.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
He just selected a deep fade mohawk.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, he picked his own haircut. I'm like, what, But
I think I'm going to spend some time with the
kids and be present with them. Maybe mix in a
vacation if mommy will let us. And then, I don't know.
I have lots of opportunity. I want to figure out
where I can learn the most and make the biggest difference.
And I'd like to stay involved in sports in hockey,
(36:37):
whether that's men's hockey, women's hockey, I don't know, but
I still think that my presence is valuable enough that
I have a unique window and opportunity to really make
a difference to people. And I think when you look
at let's get bigger than sports for a minute, when
you look at what's going on in the world, that
is hugely important.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Well, I love that and it's actually going to lend
to my advice. So every episode we end with asking
our guests what they want to hear or what they've
heard as parenting advice. But instead I'm going to flip
it on its head. I've retired, I've gotten away from
the sport, but I'm going to give you advice, and
it's advice that somebody never gave me that I wish
I had. I walked away from the sport with a purpose,
(37:18):
and at the time it was the Players Association.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
But I was hurt. I was really hurt.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
And so we start off in different places because I'm
excited that you.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Are walking away with a lot of pride.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
But the advice that I never got was that your
hurt comes from a place of love, and you love
the game, You love the sport, you love so much
about it, and nobody will make the same impact as
somebody who loves the thing.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
So I encourage you.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
While it might be hard, and while it might not
feel good every time, and that first step into a
hockey rink that you aren't playing is really really hard,
I encourage you to keep showing up because you love
it and the sport needs love.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
It needs you. It needs love, and it needs to
be nurtured and hugged and cared for. And there's nobody
that can care for it as well as you.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Okay, now I cried.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud to have
stood beside you this entire time. I'm so proud that
our kids have jerseys that's say mama. I'm so proud
that they look at the Riveters, they look at the
Sirens brand, and they know that that's you.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
They know that they can be anything. Whalen is very
confused about male athletes, so we'll have to unpack that
at some point.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Poor guy, poor guy. You know it'll fix that.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
For him though, going to a Red Wings game.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Or we could get them a brother. No put your
votes in the comments.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
No comment votes. It's not brother, it's We'll take you
to a couple of HL games.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
So I will say, I guess this my last thing
I did my post online and did my thank yous,
et cetera. But one thank you is exceptionally important, so
I want to circle back to it and mention it again.
You and I grew up very similarly, playing hockey at
a time when it was almost only boys. We were
(39:09):
always the only girl, and I had two coaches in
particular who fought for my right in the rink, Dennis
Boomer and Earl Size. And Earl's rule of thumb was
that I was always welcome on the team, and he
picked me on the team. I was maybe nine ten,
(39:30):
and then around thirteen I got cut from my first
boys team for being a girl. And it was a
team I'd played on for forever, and my dad called
Earl out of the blue. I hadn't you know, played
firm or talked to them in a little bit, and
he said, absolutely, whatever she needs. And then Dennis Boomer,
it's actually how I ended up getting the number that
I had. He was coaching the Honey Bake team at
(39:51):
the time, and Koch Earle was fine with me just
bouncing around on his team and skating until I could
find a team that would take a girl basically, but
was a team that was good, so I would continue
to get good, and I tried out for Honeybaked and
made the team. But there was a kid on the
team who'd been on the team for a while who said, well,
I won't play with a girl, and Boomer said, okay, great,
then she doesn't have to buy jerseys, she can have yours.
(40:11):
So he was actually willing to kick a kid off
his team to make space for me. And my point
in telling that story is that that was a pretty
pivotal time in my development and career. But my point
in all of that is those are two coaches who
fought for my place on the team because they knew
that kids needed coaches in the game for the right
(40:32):
reason and it didn't matter who I was, and without them,
I probably wouldn't be here. Those are coaches who understand
and believe in the power of sport and whether your boy, girl, whatever,
it doesn't matter. You have a right to have access
to sports as a kid. If there were more coaches
like Dennis and Boomer, there would be more girls playing hockey,
(40:53):
there would be more kids in sport, and there would
be more people who turn out like me who take
that opportunity to try it. Into positivity and change. Female
athletes go on to do some pretty incredible things.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
I totally agree. I love you so much.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
I couldn't be any more proud, and I couldn't think
of a better way for you to write your final
love letter to hockey. So I appreciate that this is
only how old are you? Thirty three? A third of
what makes you tremendous?
Speaker 3 (41:24):
There's thirty three and a half on Christmas.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Christmas, there's two more thirds upcoming that you're going to
do some pretty amazing.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Things past ninety nine. I don't want to be near you.
So let's call this your first third done.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
First third done? Next third? Son? Stop? Third kid?
Speaker 2 (41:41):
What's wrong with you? We have to end the episode here.
Man is going to keep lobbying for a son. I
appreciate you Pack and who you are and what you've
done for women's hockey.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Just thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Join us next episode.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Where we talk about anything else that doesn't make us
both cry. These packs Puck is a production of iHeart
Women's Sports in Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. It's hosted
by Us Madison and Anya Packer, Emily Maronoff as our
Senior Producer.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
And story editor.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
We're mixed and mastered by Bheth Fraser, and our executive
producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz and Ali Perry.
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer. I'm a recently retired pro
hockey bet. I was a founding member of the National
Women's Hockey League, a pillar in the PHF, and an
inaugural member of the PWHL.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Simons And I'm Anya Packer, also a former pro hockey
player and now a full Madison Packer.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Stan Banya and I met through hockey and now we're
married and moms. So two Austin toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And this is these packspots where we talk about everything
for professional women's athletes, to sports, to raising children and
all the messiness in between.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Hi, Maddy pack How are we doing today?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
We're doing It's been a year long week.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I feel that I'm excited to get into it today.
Let's go so a little bit of a different episode,
I guess in lieu of a hockey hot take. We're
going to talk about some hot take news from the week.
Maybe I announced my retirement from playing professional hockey.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I mean, it's been a prolific career. I just want
to run it by the numbers really quickly. You played
one hundred and forty six games at Wisconsin. You scored
forty six goals, fifty eight assists, had one hundred and
four points. You were a national champion. It's about a
fifty to fifty split. You had two gold medals an
international play for Team USA. You actually might be the
(01:24):
only person to wear the jersey that's never lost to
Canada ever. In one hundred and one hundred and fifty
four games played across nine years as a professional athlete,
you had one hundred and thirty points. You had sixty
five goals and sixty five assists, perfect fifty to fifty
percent split. You spent one hundred and eighty one minutes
in the penalty box. That is almost three full hockey
(01:46):
games sat in the box.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
So you, while that is all very.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Impressive, you were a captain, a friend, a confidant, an advocate,
a leader, a pioneer, and truly you change the game
of women's And not to be dramatic, but I truly
believe you did change the world.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
After we started dating.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Well, I will say there was a little influence here,
but you took every opportunity to use your platform to
create impact and change, from the LGBTQ plus community to
drug addiction and overdose. You never let a moment pass
without speaking for good in the world.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
So thank you.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I'm so proud of you. I didn't cry, I did
thank you for that. I appreciate that. I think for me,
the best part of the journey has been just that.
For a long time, hockey was just hockey. It was
a game, it was fun, it was stats, it was
all these things. And then at some point during my
(02:44):
time with the Riveters, it became about so much more.
And maybe it was being a part of that first
wave of women that were paid to play in North America,
and we saw the difference that we could make, the
hope that we could give, and not even just to
little kids. Right, we always talk about changing things for
the next generation, but what about the women who are
watching us do it, who didn't have the chance, right,
(03:05):
who are now moms, who are now decision makers, They're
changed drivers, And that's a whole other wave of people
that was inspired. And so I think that you start
to see the power of your voice and the power
of change and the hope that it can bring in.
That was the best part and will continue to be
the best part of the job, and the journey is
just the number of lives that you can touch. And
(03:27):
the impact that you can make and the importance of that,
especially now more than ever.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Right, Yeah, I mean I remember when I retired, I
felt lost, but I could live vicuriously through you. I
could go to the gym with you when I had
the opportunity to, I could go coach you when I
had the opportunity to. I really felt like your hockey
career kind of became like the thing I could attach to.
(03:52):
And I think there's so many people in our life
that feel that way about you, and heavy is the burden,
Like that's not lost on me that you spent so
many years.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Continuing to fight and climb.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And I think your career has been so so beautiful,
and I think the way that you've handled every moment
has been with grace, and it's been something that I
try to take in my life and has inspired me
to be a better person in other walks of my life.
So I haven't processed yet that I'm not going to
see you playing hockey, but I can say that, you know,
it's gotten tough with the kids, you know, a four
(04:26):
and a two year old. This last weekend going to Toronto.
I was on the plane and listen, they're good kids,
but it's hard to get them to like be malleable
all the time and want you and know where you are.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
And have that hardship.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And I think developmentally the kids need their mama like
they need you now.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Well, yeah, and I believe that the universe gives you
what you need, and it may not always be what
you want. Right. I wanted to play hockey as long
as I could. I worked really hard to play for
one more year and in the end and that just
wasn't what we needed. I don't think. I think that
we both know that my body was at its limit,
(05:08):
the kids were at their limit, You were at your limit.
But everyone was all in on this last chapter. And
I think a big part of that was the way
last season went and separating my shoulder, and that just sucked,
Like I was like, this cannot be it. But then
it wasn't right. You guys got to come up to Toronto,
and I said in my exit meeting that I was
grateful because I got to play one more game in
(05:30):
front of you and the kids and my parents were
up there. I mean, that was the most fun I've
had playing hockey in a long time. Had a smile
on my face, the whole time felt like my old
self and the kids got to see that. The kids
were cheering in the stands like that was fun for me.
And prior to that, my last memory on the fun
side of the glass was not a good one. And
(05:52):
so I'll get to forever have that. I'm grateful for that.
But then also it's like, okay, well this is it,
Like what next? And I always said I wanted to
play long enough for the kids to remember. Well, the
kids are going to remember, and I think Harlan it'll
probably be fuzzy for but I think that she'll have
like glimpses of remembering being there and doing things. I
(06:13):
got to bring her on the bus up in Toronto.
And what's made this the last few days a little
bit easier for me, and I just keep reminding myself
of is that the most important thing in our life
now is the kids. And when I told Whale that
I wasn't going to play anymore, I was nervous because
I thought that he wasn't going to take it. While
he was going to be upset, right, He loves the
locker room. He loves Aunt Schroeds, like all about the
goalies going in the room, whatever, and I said, I
(06:35):
got to tell you something. Mom's not going to play
hockey anymore, and expecting him to give me his like
powdy frownie face, he literally lit up with the biggest
smile we've ever seen. And that's not even being dramatic.
I was like concerned as to why he was so happy.
I felt a little sadistic to me in the moment,
and I was like why. I was like, are you happy?
And he said, hmm. I said why and he said
(06:56):
it's he said, because you don't have to go away anymore.
Like it wasn't a conversation I guess i'd had because
you just always knew that mama had to go to hockey,
you know, And now I don't. And it's been hard
for him, right, We've been talking about it. It's been
these last couple of weeks have been really hard for him.
We spend a lot of time together, and I think
(07:17):
for him, I didn't recognize, like, I know how hard
it's been for me, but I'm like, I'm an adult
and this is my job and I have to suck
it up. Like he didn't really get a choice in
the matter, and he had no concept of you know,
the time counting down and whatever, and then one day
it was just I was gone for long periods of time,
and I think that that was hard for him.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, it definitely was. But at the end of the day,
we were all so locked into your success. All summer
we were dialed into it. Training was different, the diet
was different.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Everything we did was to get you to the place
where you made the team right. That was the thing
that we were pushing towards. And we got to the
bitter end and you performed at your peak capabilities. You
were at you know, the best in class for Madison
Packer Hockey. You truly showed them that there isn't a
(08:09):
limit or restriction. The goal was to get faster. You
did that by a tremendous amount. The goal was to
be stronger, You did that by a tremendous amount. The
goal was to climb the ranks and show that you
could be and you were. And so for all intentsive purposes,
this is a success on every level.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I think when you were.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Tired, people just forget how hard you work to get
to that point and make that decision, and that decision
felt imminent to you. Whether it was today or six
months from now, this was going to be your last
trip on that side of the glass. And we've you know,
I couldn't be more proud of what you showed our
children and what that looks like and what we can
turn around and point to from the perspective of work hard,
(08:52):
do the right things, the results will follow, and when
they don't, you weren't meant for them anyway, and you
were meant for this new thing. And this new thing
for you is really beautiful.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Well, and I think the biggest thing, honestly, that I've
learned in this and it's why maybe I think I'm
processing it so much better than I thought I would.
This summer was so good for me, right, Like if
you tell me I can't do something, buckle up, right.
It's just like such a fun challenge to me. It's
my whole life, and like I gave it every single
thing I had, and with everything in life, especially sports.
(09:27):
Now that's been my longest and most recent experience, but
it's translatable to everything in life. You're always going to
have someone judging you, You're always going to have some benchmark,
you're always going to have something, but you're also going
to always know your truth and the truth. So for me,
the goal was clear, but in the end, I didn't
(09:49):
have power or impact over anything other than my attitude
in my effort, and so at the end of the day,
the decision was going to be. Whatever the decision was,
we can agree to disagree, but I know my truth
in knowing that I did absolutely everything I could and
should and I showed up and I was excellent, and
(10:10):
at the end of the day, if that's not enough,
then that's the answer. But I can walk away proud
knowing this is my body of work, this is what
I present, and we can agree to disagree or whatever,
but this is me and I'm proud of that, and
I'm confident in that pride, and you can't take anything
away from that. And so for me, that mentality came
(10:36):
from the work that I did this summer and walking
in the gym and being scared as hell because those
workouts were actually awful. Like looking back, I'm like, why
why did we do? Like? I think that was the
first thing that came to my mind. I was like
those five weeks on the kitchen floor crying, But I
wouldn't have gotten to the place mentally that I have
if I hadn't gone through that so directly, indirectly, whatever,
(11:01):
everything has purpose and everything has reason. So I'm grateful
for that, and I know my truth. I know what
I did, like can't bring me down.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Well, you sound very clear, and I love that because
this can be a very confusing time and it doesn't
sound that for you.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
So I'm also very new into this right so like you,
But I truly think that for me, just being able
to know my truth and I'm just going to enjoy
it right like that, there were talking about a nine
year career where I don't even know whatever the stats
and points whatever you shared, Like that's cool, but what's
(11:39):
so much more enjoyable to me is like reconnecting with
the people that I've crossed paths with and like we
were talking about this the other night, like one, so
many people have privately reached out to me that I
never thought would and just like you know, some frustrations
that we've talked about in the past of like this
cybers that side this versa, like we have all been
(12:01):
working for the same thing towards the same common goal.
We had different visions on what that looked like to
get there, but not what that looked like, right, And
I think that without that battle, would we even be here,
because would women's hockey be as relevant like that drama
and that that storyline kept it in the game.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
For a while.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Well, I obviously want to keep going.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I mean, naturally we could keep going back and forth
on this, but the episode has structure, so we're going
to do our check in. I know that that could
be you know, one hundred to zero at any given
moment while you go through this journey.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
But tell me where you're at right now.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I'm in eighty two. That's higher than I thought you
were going to say. Well, we're up in Boston, so
that's nice just being around family and people. So I'm
with my people in one of my happy places. I
had my first day as a stay at home mom
today and I loved that co I like then, I
lost hard, but it was like kind of. I also
(13:00):
got in a fight with a seven year old at
the playplace. Yeah that thinks that was pretty amazing, but
I don't know. I just had fun. And like we
walked in Harlan Poop, I didn't have a diaper, the
mall was closed. The place we were going was closed,
Like I tried to buy a pass and I wasn't
understanding the dates. I got an argument with the lady
at the counter of the play place, and those kids
(13:21):
were being bullies to Harlan, so I had to step in.
Like it was just so much chaos, but I don't
even care, because it was just spending time with them.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I love that, And I also appreciate that you have
continued to be a bull in a china shop regardless
of the format. You're gonna still be trying to get
a penalty on or off the ice in motherhood. So
good work. I'm I'm in a weird spot. I mean,
I honestly want to say. I'm like, I feel like
I'm like fifty, Like, I am so happy that you're home.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
I'm so happy to have you back.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I'm so excited that everything has played out the way
that it is. I'm so blessed with the embrace of
your retirement. I am so in love with watching you
play hockey, though, So I'm sad, but I love you
and I'm proud of you, and I'm excited about it.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
But I can't lie that, Like it feels sad to.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Me to know that I'll never watch my best friend
do or favorite thing in the world, even though I
know that your favorite thing in the world is hang
out with our kids, is to be a mom, is
to do all the other things. But when I met
you and none of those things existed yet that was
your favorite thing.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
It wasn't even hanging out with me. I wish it was.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I wish it was like karaoke and some dive bar
in New York City, but it wasn't. It was taking
a ginger pill and going and playing hockey easy.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Don't excluse me. Actually, in fairness, I think it was
my second what was your first? Hanging out on the
lake with my favorite people up north will always be
my favorite thing in the world.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Yeah, that's a pretty good thing.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I wrote down some eras of your iconic cocky journey,
and I wanted to kind of talk about those because
I think they're all really funny to me, and so
I kind of categorize them in a few different ways.
I call it the best Friend's team because the team
that you were on with Courtney Burke, Jenny Ryan, and
Rebecca Russo will always be in my mind the best
friend's team. Like, yeah, there's like start of the league,
(15:27):
like start of the NWHL, like when we all kind
of started that. But I actually wasn't dating you during
that time, So that's a lost era to me. The
best friend team era was quite possibly when you were
in the rarest form I've ever seen you be. You
guys were hellions across Jersey City and Bewrak City.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
It was actually foul like we would. I actually can't
believe we're married. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I didn't like you at all when you were in
that I mean, that era is hilarious to me now
as we look back, But while whilst you were in
that era, you totally not like you.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
You were such a bum, but you guys wanted.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Isabelle, nice catch, nice catch. You were a bomb, but
you wont an isabel cup. So talk about that era
because I remember there was a game we were beating
you guys five to nothing. We were killing you. I
played for the Whale. We were absolutely shellacking you. And
in the third period I think it was you guys
netted five goals and then the first ot we had
(16:22):
a penalty and Courtney Burke bombs won from the point
and you tipped it in on a power play, which
is so annoying to me, and you guys won. So
talked about the best Friend's era. Talking about that felt like,
I mean, winning an Isabel Cup.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
It was fun. It was Jersey City circa Mac and Cheese.
We won an Isabel Cup.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
We ate was your Miller Lite era as well?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah, we ate craft Mac and Cheese out of the
Isabel Cup. Russo Courtney Jenny lived in Jersey City, right
in the water together. Kessel was there too. I used
to go over all the time, Like it just was.
It was fun. Like the league was starting to get hype,
so like everyone started getting arrogant and you guys would
like get into bars without the cover.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
It was like so annoying. You guys were so annoying.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
It was fun, super fun. You guys were all very good,
and then you won the Isabelle Cup. Actually, Alexa Grushaw
scored this like ridiculous goal where she was like falling
down getting tripped by buffalo. I had to go through
this moment where we were dating. I was on the whale,
but there is a spectator supporting you and celebrating you
guys winning a cup whilst being so jealous and so angry.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Your parents were there.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Anton Carter was there.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Yeah, Anson Carter was there.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And then we went to Reds and you guys poured
beer from the tap into the Isabelle Cup and just
passed it around.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Like how everyone didn't get ill.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
I'm not certain.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Full circle moment. Now that the New York Sirens are
back at the Prudential Center, we will be frequenting Reds again.
Save us a We're going meet you there, Reds. Yeah,
we are so highlight of that era. Winning the Isabelle Cup,
getting a Ribs jersey on the wall at Reds and
probably losing Jenny on the jersey shore for eighteen hours. Well,
(18:04):
that era was iconic.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
The next era that I loved so much was the
Leary to Packer era. You've got to bring it up,
You've got to talk about it was season five. It
was a tough time. It was you know, when the
CWHL had folded. It was the rise of the PWHPA.
It kind of felt like nobody really wanted to play
in the NWHL at the time. And you, Kaylee Fraken,
(18:27):
you signed contracts, you kind of stayed with it because,
like we said, it was never a disagreement to where
we wanted to be and what the tip of the
mountain looked like. It was just a difference of opinion.
So in that era, you know, the league was down
a little bit, I'm.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Not going to lie a lot bit a lot bit.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And and then Kate Leary from Boston College, who I
loathe because I'm a proud Terrier, played for the Riveters,
and I swear to you every single puck that went
in the net that year was Leary to Packer, Packer
to Leary, Leary to the to the boards, off your
butt in the net. Like I couldn't stand that year.
(19:02):
I mean, it was so I mean, it was amazing,
It was so much fun. I was doing the color
commenting and I just couldn't stop saying Leary and Packer.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
That was an era and a team and a year
that so many people who will never get credit or
acknowledgement or anything. Without the ped up forming that year,
women's hockey wouldn't be where it is today. But also
without the NWHL continuing to go on, women's hockey wouldn't
be where it is today because they then kept each
(19:33):
other in check and in balance, right, And there's no
there was never any like belief that the best players
were certainly not missing from that league, but we needed
enough players to keep the league afloat. To have a league, right, like,
you have to have players. And there are so many
women who stepped up and stepped in and like some
(19:56):
I mean again like New York being the expensive market
and hard to pull players into. Like it was a
long year. It was a lot of leary to packer,
but it was also like so much fun.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Yeah, that year was like no expectations.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
That year again, everything that year was about so much
more than just the hockey and the fan engagement and
where did we practice? It was so far away, it's
like two hours away.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
No, that were the games were Mama Junction.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yeah, that was a good era, but we probably shouldn'tdell
on that one much because there were there weren't many
fans there. So let's go on to the next one.
Listeners don't care about that one.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Then the next one was the Riveters rebuild era, call
it the Mall era, call it the international era, whatever
that may look like. It was a crazy team with
every language spoken under the sun. You guys had Finns,
you had Swedes, you had some players from Hungary. You
had yourselves, You had Canadians like that team that Riveter's
(20:54):
Rebuilding era with Steel Rosy Black Rosie mental.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Health games and us was on the team. Like the
whole team was just.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Different, better, And I just felt like that was peak Riveters.
Like you guys were humming.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah, that was fun. That showed the power of one
in athlete's voice to just the impact that you can
have on the community. We did so many specialty games
and raised awareness for so many different causes and initiatives
like that was a fun year because it felt like
there was so much purpose in everything that we were doing.
(21:30):
And like you mentioned, Black Rosie, it was the first
time a woman of color was featured on a sports
uniform ever. I think it was the highest selling piece
of merch in the entire league in the history of
the league. It went viral, Like Kim Davis from the
NHL still has one, still talks about it. That was incredible,
just the environment at the game and just the culture
(21:51):
that was brought and the fans that we were able
to reach and the mental health game. All the people
that then reached out after the fact that the organizations
we were able to partner with. It was so much
fun and it just shows you the power of sport
and the change that you can drive through it.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, I mean, and I think in that era is
also you know, kind of that black Rosi era that
we just talked about. But like you know, Erica Ayala,
Joe Dabney, Jasmine Baker, Ari Chambers was at the game
we celebrated. This actually was at a point in time
when I was also the general manager of the Riveters,
but we celebrated black women for a purpose, for an
(22:26):
intention about Rosie the Riveter and how black rosies existed
in the world, and really said that with our chests.
As well as it did, it also brought on a
lot of flack and a lot of like generational.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Undoings that we had to do in the hockey community.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And I just felt like at that point you were
so dialed in to doing that and that's not always
easy to do. And then we go into Pride that
year that was when the NHL started allowing players to
like forego wearing Pride jerseys and then actually went on
to ban Pride jerseys.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
And I remember so.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Clearly, right, we asked you to do a piece. We
asked you to do.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
You know, hey, you're gonna wear this pride jers. You're
gonna launch it to everybody, beautiful jersey.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
And you said, I.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Said, if my jersey offends you, you can.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Stay home, essentially saying it's only acceptance here. There's only
space here. So if you're gonna feel offended, if you're
going to voice your offense, I'm actually actively asking you
not to come. And I think that that's where you
drew a really clear line with the moral compass in sport,
and it's really hard to do pack Like people will
(23:36):
accept deals from companies that they don't believe in all
the time because money's green. That's a really important thing
for the captain of a franchise to say because it
made so many people feel safe, actually have psychological safety
in your space. And that is the biggest thing that
we see now through this retirement is people saying thank
(23:56):
you for creating safe Safe.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
It was shortly after that I did the interview question
where I got asked about, you know, why I took
the stance that I did. And this is a celebratory episode,
but we're gonna get serious for a second because this
is a topic that I'm actually so intensely passionate about
when you talk about the impact and the platform and
the visibility that you have with kids. You know, it's
(24:23):
hard because you're an athlete, right, and you shouldn't have
to compromise your moral compass or your beliefs or your values.
And I believe that too. But then say nothing, yeah,
because because you do have an obligation as an athlete
to live in positivity full stop. And so if you
can't say something nice or you can't support for whatever reason,
(24:48):
that's fine. I'm not saying that everyone has to wear
a Pride jersey and everyone has to support the LGBTQ
plus community. Because I believe in free speech. I believe
in freedom of religion. But you have no idea who
looks up to you and who values your opinion. And
so when you tell people that they literally don't have
a right to exist, you are doing harm, especially when
we're talking about kids who are killing themselves at a
(25:10):
rate unprecedented in history. Right. LGBTQ plus youth have the
highest suicide rate in the world in the country times two.
That's crazy. We're talking about kids. So if you can't
say something positive, then say nothing and so that's why
I cared so much, because we were talking about kids
and jerseys.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Yeah. Facts.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So then the next era, and what I will call
maybe the final era, is the New League era. The
New League launching with four hundred thousand plus butts and seats.
That era doesn't find you, but it does define the sport.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
It was the.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
First time that on an international scale, the league had reach,
whether that be through broadcasting, whether that be through visibility,
social media, just all the carts pulling in the same direction.
For the first time ever, the league had true reach.
So that is the most recent era. That's the era
(26:24):
that you end on. It's not the era that defines you.
It's not the air that defines any of us, but
the most recent era.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, I think that that era was the most difficult
for me, but maybe not for reasons that people think.
So you have to remember that, like, this is what
we've all wanted, truly, and when it came out, it
was announced like because this narrative within women's hockey had
(26:54):
been so us versus them, petub versus and the slush PHF.
Like I think if you talk to a lot of
the players, it was kind of hogwash, Like, yeah, there
was like versus, but like not really, it wasn't this
like big, tumultuous battle. And I feel that animosity sometimes
even still more from some people than others. And it's
(27:17):
just always confusing to me because like, it really wasn't
that right, and so it wasn't the point of it. Yeah.
But so then when you bring the leagues together, and
this is the part that I think is maybe difficult
for some to understand, but actually super important because it
tells a huge part of the story that maybe isn't told.
(27:39):
When these leagues came together, more than fifty percent of
the league was former PHF players. A lot of those
players were tenured INWHL or PHF players, And so what
felt like, you know, a win loss situation, which it
really wasn't. It was a win for women's hockey full Sea.
It was a win, but it felt like a bad
(28:00):
like these two sides and then like this announcement happens,
et cetera. There was a deep sense of grief and
loss for the players of the NWHL slash PHF. But
now this opportunity comes about and you have to move
forward in positivity because this is the best thing for
women's hockey. However, this is a really sad thing that
(28:24):
has happened to the PHF and these other teams, and
these things like I played for the same team for
eight years. That only happens to this point. I mean,
like WNBA if players have done it, but that's a
long time to play for the same team. And now
all of those teams that players had deep rooted connections
with are just gone. All those brands are gone, and
(28:46):
you feel like this a huge part of your identity
is gone. And oh, by the way, if you want
to continue going forward and making a difference and choosing
your passion and that drive, you just got to jump
right into this new thing and hope that an unknown
landscape with unknown people, with people who think that your
motives are maybe what they're not. And there were so
many people going through that, and in the moment I was,
(29:07):
it was just like, okay, guys, this is a good thing.
We're gonna be okay, because what else do you do.
You have to want your choice, yeah, and you have
to tell people like you want what's best for the
game and for the people. So while it might be
confusing and might not seem right, this is the best
thing move forward and we'll slowly figure it out together.
But there was a deep sense of loss in that
(29:28):
situation that I think for me last year and a
big part of why I chose to come back and
give it one more. And I'm glad I did, because
last year I felt like I wasn't myself, because I
was trying to figure out this new role and this
new identity and like how I fit in and like
all while also grieving, you know, anytime I saw a
Riveter's jersey, anytime I got asked a Riveters question, like
(29:48):
I love that team, I love those fans, but it's
a hard thing to turn off for me because we're
not the Riveters anymore. We're moving forward with this new thing,
and that's the goal, is to drive this new thing forward,
not dwell in the past when maybe sometimes we should.
Maybe we should talk about it, Maybe we should bring
those fans in and let them feel seen and heard,
(30:09):
and maybe they will then in turn support this new
thing because this is what we all want, this is
what is best. But I think some of that got
lost because it needed to feel like a victorious moment,
when in the end, if you wanted anything other than
women's hockey to win. You were doing it for the
wrong reason and it wasn't genuine and so I think
that my response was it's for women's hockey. It has
(30:31):
to be. But I also, you know, want to bring
to light that like that was a hard thing. And
so that's how heartbreak ere too. Like a part of
this new era is now this season, like I'm so
glad I came back, Like I got to have fun,
I got to not feel that way in the locker room,
Like I think I cracked my first joke ever on
the bus. It just was a different vibe, and so,
(30:54):
you know, that's a big part of it.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
What do you think across this entire career was your
most cherished moment?
Speaker 3 (31:01):
So I have a few, but I think the one
that stands out the most is actually not really a
hockey moment, but kind of when we had the All
Star Game in Nashville and I wore the Kylepavone Foundation hats,
So for people that don't know, the Kypavone Foundation was
founded by the family of my friend Kyle Pavone, who
(31:22):
was the singer for the band Became as Romans, who
died of an accidental drug overdose. In twenty eighteen. He
was a childhood friend of mine, grew up in the
same neighborhood. His brother played hockey with my brother, just
close families. So when that happened, it was really hard.
And then I started, you know, looking at kind of
what was happening in my hometown and where I'm from,
(31:42):
and a lot of loss. And so that year for
the All Star Game, I was on Zabados's team, and
it was just like a lot of people that I
didn't really know. And again, sometimes going into those environments,
people like don't know me. They think I am the
way that I play. And I remember the response from
player being just phenomenal, and the number of players who
(32:03):
reached out to me that were like, thank you so
much for doing this, like people who had been personally
touched by these different things, whether it was drug overdose
or suicide or different mental health you know, struggles and initiatives.
And we raised a ton of money, drove a ton
of awareness. Then continued to go on to partner with
the Kyleplpone Foundation. That was kind of the launching pad
for then, Okay, how can we make this bigger? How
(32:23):
can we do more? So I think for me now
looking back and seeing the impact we've been able to
make in those different areas and avenues and the conversation
that we've been able to drive. And so for me,
I think that that's just the biggest one that stands
out because I think that that's when I learned how
powerful our voices can be and the change that we
(32:45):
can bring when we get passionate and when we care.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
I mean it.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Then started the Let's Talk about It hats campaign, and
I remember when you got a sleeve of hats. We
started with just one box of hats that said let's
talk about it, and it was mental health banner on
one side and the addiction awareness banner on the other side.
And the gentleman that we had used to print them said,
thank you, I'm sober.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
I really appreciate you pushing this forward.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Yeah, and he donated all of them.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
So then we started with that sleeve of hats and
you put one on before a game. You said, i't
to wear one every game and I'm gonna sign it
and I'm going to raffle it off. Well, every single
teammate of yours said, give me a hat.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
I want to join you. I want to wear it.
I want to be involved.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
And I remember that game having every single player skate
out to the blue line wearing a let's talk about
It hat Again, Like, there's some moments of you that
define to me how powerful your career was. But that
moment right there, eighteen skaters wearing a hat that said
let's talk about it with mental health and drug addiction
(33:49):
overdose banners on them, I just thought to myself, Wow,
this is more than hockey. This career is a lot
more than hockey. You had a bunch of eras and
plenty that I've skied. Is there one era that will
continue to fuel you into your next era?
Speaker 3 (34:07):
I think for me it will be the Riveter's rebuilding era.
Like I said before, the first Riveters team will forever
be the best team I ever played on, and that's
a group that I owe everything to. Being a part
of that team was invaluable to my career and my
growth and just everything. It takes a tremendous amount of
(34:29):
a lot of things special to go to the rink
every day and know you're going to get your ass
kicked in and your teeth kicked in and still show
up and give it everything you got. This is not
a knock on those women. Just to clarify, it was
a combination of like it was New York, it was
expensive to live, that the maximum player was getting twenty
grand Da da da dah. So I just want to
give a shout out to those women because I am
(34:50):
not here truly without them. I ended up having the
longest career out of that bunch, and I think a
huge part of that is a less that I learned
from all those women Off the ice. They were incredible,
and that is a group of women who completely changed
the landscape of women's hockey. But the Rebuilding era allowed
me to learn more about myself as a person and
(35:13):
feel less pressure as an athlete. It was a whole
lot of fun from a hockey perspective, a lot of
All Star Games, whatever, But the hockey was the least
important part. It was the access to everything else around
that through that Rebuilding era. Although I will say a
huge knock on that era was that I had to
work for my wife.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
So I love that era. I actually would like to
go back to that era.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
If you, I know you would, you would tell my
kidneys to go back to that era. Well, I love that.
So what is what is the new era?
Speaker 4 (35:41):
What is the thing?
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
You know, Madison the hockey coach? Is it Madison the broadcaster?
Is it Madison the Sirens ambassador?
Speaker 4 (35:48):
What is the perfect next role for you? What would
you do if you could do anything right now?
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Well, my wife and I have this podcast mom sooop
hawk yo we do if you're listening, self plug there.
I don't know. I think that I'm going to take
some time to make up for lost time or just
enjoy being around the kids. I have missed so much
of the kids. Whalen is a full grown adult, needs
a checking account and a job application.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
He just selected a deep fade mohawk.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, he picked his own haircut. I'm like, what, But
I think I'm going to spend some time with the
kids and be present with them. Maybe mix in a
vacation if mommy will let us. And then, I don't know.
I have lots of opportunity. I want to figure out
where I can learn the most and make the biggest difference.
And I'd like to stay involved in sports in hockey,
(36:37):
whether that's men's hockey, women's hockey, I don't know, but
I still think that my presence is valuable enough that
I have a unique window and opportunity to really make
a difference to people. And I think when you look
at let's get bigger than sports for a minute, when
you look at what's going on in the world, that
is hugely important.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Well, I love that and it's actually going to lend
to my advice. So every episode we end with asking
our guests what they want to hear or what they've
heard as parenting advice. But instead I'm going to flip
it on its head. I've retired, I've gotten away from
the sport, but I'm going to give you advice, and
it's advice that somebody never gave me that I wish
I had. I walked away from the sport with a purpose,
(37:18):
and at the time it was the Players Association.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
But I was hurt. I was really hurt.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
And so we start off in different places because I'm
excited that you.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Are walking away with a lot of pride.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
But the advice that I never got was that your
hurt comes from a place of love, and you love
the game, You love the sport, you love so much
about it, and nobody will make the same impact as
somebody who loves the thing.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
So I encourage you.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
While it might be hard, and while it might not
feel good every time, and that first step into a
hockey rink that you aren't playing is really really hard,
I encourage you to keep showing up because you love
it and the sport needs love.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
It needs you. It needs love, and it needs to
be nurtured and hugged and cared for. And there's nobody
that can care for it as well as you.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Okay, now I cried.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud to have
stood beside you this entire time. I'm so proud that
our kids have jerseys that's say mama. I'm so proud
that they look at the Riveters, they look at the
Sirens brand, and they know that that's you.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
They know that they can be anything. Whalen is very
confused about male athletes, so we'll have to unpack that
at some point.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Poor guy, poor guy. You know it'll fix that.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
For him though, going to a Red Wings game.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Or we could get them a brother. No put your
votes in the comments.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
No comment votes. It's not brother, it's We'll take you
to a couple of HL games.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
So I will say, I guess this my last thing
I did my post online and did my thank yous,
et cetera. But one thank you is exceptionally important, so
I want to circle back to it and mention it again.
You and I grew up very similarly, playing hockey at
a time when it was almost only boys. We were
(39:09):
always the only girl, and I had two coaches in
particular who fought for my right in the rink, Dennis
Boomer and Earl Size. And Earl's rule of thumb was
that I was always welcome on the team, and he
picked me on the team. I was maybe nine ten,
(39:30):
and then around thirteen I got cut from my first
boys team for being a girl. And it was a
team I'd played on for forever, and my dad called
Earl out of the blue. I hadn't you know, played
firm or talked to them in a little bit, and
he said, absolutely, whatever she needs. And then Dennis Boomer,
it's actually how I ended up getting the number that
I had. He was coaching the Honey Bake team at
(39:51):
the time, and Koch Earle was fine with me just
bouncing around on his team and skating until I could
find a team that would take a girl basically, but
was a team that was good, so I would continue
to get good, and I tried out for Honeybaked and
made the team. But there was a kid on the
team who'd been on the team for a while who said, well,
I won't play with a girl, and Boomer said, okay, great,
then she doesn't have to buy jerseys, she can have yours.
(40:11):
So he was actually willing to kick a kid off
his team to make space for me. And my point
in telling that story is that that was a pretty
pivotal time in my development and career. But my point
in all of that is those are two coaches who
fought for my place on the team because they knew
that kids needed coaches in the game for the right
(40:32):
reason and it didn't matter who I was, and without them,
I probably wouldn't be here. Those are coaches who understand
and believe in the power of sport and whether your boy, girl, whatever,
it doesn't matter. You have a right to have access
to sports as a kid. If there were more coaches
like Dennis and Boomer, there would be more girls playing hockey,
(40:53):
there would be more kids in sport, and there would
be more people who turn out like me who take
that opportunity to try it. Into positivity and change. Female
athletes go on to do some pretty incredible things.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
I totally agree. I love you so much.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
I couldn't be any more proud, and I couldn't think
of a better way for you to write your final
love letter to hockey. So I appreciate that this is
only how old are you? Thirty three? A third of
what makes you tremendous?
Speaker 3 (41:24):
There's thirty three and a half on Christmas.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Christmas, there's two more thirds upcoming that you're going to
do some pretty amazing.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Things past ninety nine. I don't want to be near you.
So let's call this your first third done.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
First third done? Next third? Son? Stop? Third kid?
Speaker 2 (41:41):
What's wrong with you? We have to end the episode here.
Man is going to keep lobbying for a son. I
appreciate you Pack and who you are and what you've
done for women's hockey.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Just thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Join us next episode.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Where we talk about anything else that doesn't make us
both cry. These packs Puck is a production of iHeart
Women's Sports in Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. It's hosted
by Us Madison and Anya Packer, Emily Maronoff as our
Senior Producer.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
And story editor.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
We're mixed and mastered by Bheth Fraser, and our executive
producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz and Ali Perry.
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