May 6, 2025 • 44 mins
Madison and Anya are no strangers to hockey romance — but they had no clue hockey romance novels existed, let alone were a wildly popular genre! Author Lexi LaFleur Brown joins to talk about her spicy, hilarious new hockey rom-com, Shoot Your Shot. Lexi talks about how her experience growing up immersed in hockey as a kid in Canada and her own real-life hockey romance inspired her book. She also shares how sliding into DMs led to marrying an NHL player and spills the tea on what real hockey world drama made it into her pages.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm a recently retired pro hockey vet, a founding member
of the National Women's Hockey League, a pillar in the PHF,
and an inaugural member of the PWHL Sirens.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
And I'm Anypacker, also a former pro hockey player, also
founding member of the National Women's Hockey League. But today
I'm a full Madison Packer. Stand.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Anya and I met through hockey, then we got married,
and now we're moms.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
To two awesome toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
And on our new podcast, These Packs Puck, we're opening
up about the chaos of our daily lives between the
juggle of being athletes, raising children and all the messiness
in between.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hey bb, hey you, I'm excited for today. You got
a good week coming up. We got a good chat
plans today.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
H I'm excited. Ready should we get into it?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Let's get into it because I know you're ready to brawl.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I'm going to put some people on blast hockey hot take.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
This This sweek's hot take is not a hockey hot take,
although maybe if you're a mom traveling to a rink
that suffers from this same situation. But I want to
talk about the number of places we'll just say even
just kid friendly places, but number of places in general
in twenty twenty five that do not have change tables
(01:23):
in their bathroom or anywhere in their building.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It's happened a lot to us, but the most offensive,
most recently, we were at the Naples Grand Hotel.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
It's a beach resort, it's a pool.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
It's a very very family friendly environment, and they have
brunch for an agreaziously overpriced rate. But it's a family place, right,
and we're all excited.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
We go with your family Harlem poops as one does.
I go into the lobby, no change table in bathroom one.
I go into the second bathroom, no change table. So
I go to the front.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Desk and I said, surely you guys aren't a kid
friendly resort with no change table in your bathroom, to
which the bellman said, well, you can just change her
on the floor, to which my response was not great.
But then the manager comes out and goes, oh, well,
you know what, we're going through some renovations, so we
don't have one right now. And then I obviously got
(02:22):
snappy back because there were no holes in the wall.
It's not like you took the change table off the
wall to start renovating two years from now, Like what
a cop out?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Also it was a woman, but.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Like, really, you have thirty five families sitting pool side
with one hundred kids running around, you want a change
table in your bathroom.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
If you have a kid's menu and you don't have
a changing table right off the rip, the business should
go under.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So you know what I did.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I took her in the bathroom and I changed her
on the marble makeup station in the bathroom.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So I used that.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Little poop on the counter. I'm sure you did. Oh,
I did it, just shmeer a little.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So I looked it up. You can order it.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
You can get a change table on Amazon for one
hundred bucks, which is what I said to the manager
as well.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Great commercial brand, Yeah, run a little series. We should
start going to restaurants and if they don't have a
change table, we should work with our friends at Koala
and help them understand how easy it is to find
two studs amount to change table. It shouldn't be that hard.
Women shouldn't feel like they're a burden when they walk
into a place that they're a paying customer and cannot
(03:30):
change their children.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Equally at when we only put a change table in
the women's.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Bathroom, Yeah, what are we doing here?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Everyone's settled down for a second, But there are families
that don't have a woman in them, right, it's crazy.
How is it not something that you think about? And like,
we want people to have babies, right, we're forcing people
to have babies, and you want have babies in this
you don't have a place to change them, and like,
when you really think about it, it's not just oh,
change them on the floor, because then mom.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Or dad has to get down on a discussing floor.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Even if you have the little pad to put your
kid on, which we have in our diaper bag, but
I'm not getting on the bathroom floor.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Then people you change him in public, people stare at you.
It's gross, like a creepy. There's so many different things
as to watch change your kid in the bathroom.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
To your point of the then having the changing tables
only be in the women's room, then you're saying, okay, yeah,
there could be a gig couple that goes out and
it happens to be both dads. But what if dad
just has the kids doesn't matter if if mom isn't
around anymore.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
For any plethora of reasons.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Literally, what if this is just a man with a
baby that walks into a facility and pays for his
food and sits down with his kid and orders off
the kids menu and is having a grand old time
until he's confronted with the bold reality that for him
to change that child, he needs to wait at the
women's bathroom door knock and excuse every other woman so
(04:51):
that they feel safe so that he can change his child.
That's bullshit. Everybody should have a change table in the
men's and women's And here's the other thing that makes
me angry is that may keep going is when the
change table in the women's room or any bathroom is
in the handicap stall versus being on the wall. So
(05:14):
now not only.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
See is a disability, it is a disability.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I got short term disability today. Stuff. But it's crazy,
like you're now conflating disabilities and somebody that needs an
accessible space, right because like then something doesn't go in
the handicap bathroom, like a handrail or a pull cord
or something that may be necessary for a handicap bathroom
because you're wasting space in a handicap accessible room to
(05:40):
give space to a baby.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, I agree. I think I'll meet you in the
middle on it.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I'll take a change table in the handicap stall over
no change table. Yeah, but I think if you have
the space, like why not, why use a stall to
do it? It's a little more private. But it's alarming
the number of places that don't have change tables. Travel
a lot, and if you're on our upcoming path of destruction,
get a change table in your bathroom. Otherwise we're putting
(06:06):
you on blast. I'm pretty sure that the Naples grand
won't let me back in. I think they immediately put
your picture on the wall.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
The valet sprinted to get our car. He ran, dude,
he ran.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
That was scary. That was like, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Get this crazy lady out of here.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Besides our change table debacle, I want to bring us
back to reality because it's time to just check where
the head's at Madison, give us a check in.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I'm a ninety two.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Holy I only got to be an eight today.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I slept great.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I got up with the kids, took them right to
school because they're not going to bed at night. So
the new thing is that's fine, but mammy and mama
need time. So the new thing is, if you want
to take my knee time at night, then I'm gonna
ship your right.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
You in school, I have goodness to speed and you.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Know what, I think it might have worked. It goes people.
And why is we here so early today?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
You're gonna dug the whole lot of this truck and
it and it hit him like it right as as
I'm walking to the door, He's like, oh, well, I
went to bed last night.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
He's like, crime there, buddy.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Shouldn't Harlan be here? And I can have five more
minutes in my playroom? No kid, so eighty nothing can
bring me down.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I gotta workout in. I got a little creatine, a
little protein shake.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
I'm glad you're on the play.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Where.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Oh okay, I'm I'm at a seventy and I was
gonna be much higher. But my last game of pickleball
we got absolutely throttled.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
And I want to sleep on the old people in South.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a little dicey here.
Pickleball is super annoying because I'm very good at moving
I'm very good at getting the ball, like I'm not
so great at the like sneaky little shots that they have.
Like I can run a drop shot like I can,
I can definitely get into it. But when I try
to put power on a pickleball, most of the time
it goes out, and that is very frustrating to me.
(08:04):
My partner wasn't doing her best. She's very good as well,
but it was girls versus boys. It was these two
older men and they were both pretty athletic, so they
kicked our pants, which was really annoying. But pickle ball
in the morning with a myriad of old people, there's
nothing more humbling than looking across the court from somebody's
got double knee braces. The hair is completely white, the
(08:25):
skin's creepy, They're looking old and they just freaking jam it.
And then they go pedicure because they smash the ball
in between your feet. Nothing more embarrassing and inhumane. So
I've lost thirty points off of a fabulous day because
these old people are kicking my Yes, they.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Were good this morning, and the guys really fush and
you want to jump in. I was like, uh no,
last time I planned it gave someone a breakfast ball
and he beat me a lemon. Nothing.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, not good with the pickleball situation. I really enjoy it.
I've learned a bunch of different lessons about the strategy
of pickleball now, so I'm in on the pickleball thing.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Fastest sport in the United States of America. So that's
our retired Florida life. Let's get back into hockey kind
of today. We're talking to Lexie Lafleur Brown, who is
a number of things, one of which is a famous
hockey wag, wives and girlfriends. For those who don't know,
she's also a doctor. She's an author, she's an all.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Around badass, comes from a long line of hockey fans.
But most interestingly, in my opinion, and recently, she has
written a book, Shoot Your Shot.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
It's raunchy. I love it. It was so good.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It's a hockey rom com romance novel, which I didn't
even know was a thing. It's actually a very popular thing.
Did you know that that was a thing, babe?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Honestly, not until we got pretty deep into it. I
was excited about the idea of starting, like to read
some of these and as they go, hers is actually
kind of mild, and I'm obsessed because one we're now
on a quest to find a pretty sappok like girl
girl hockey romance novel, which I think could absolutely be
a very real thing. So if anyone knows any good
(10:04):
sapphic hockey romance novels, leave them in the comments. I
want to start reading them all. But this is episode one,
Conversation one with Lexie Lafflur Brown, and I think we're
going to start a little hockey romance book club with
some of these really incredible writers. Hi, Lexi, welcome to
(10:30):
these pas Puck.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
We are so excited. We're going to talk all about
your book, Shoot Your Shot, which came out last March.
But before we talk about all the juicy details in there,
I want to talk about you. I know we haven't
personally met before. I think you and I have like
fevershly tweeted at each other. But let's talk about yourself,
You're involvement in hockey and who you are to our listeners.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Yeah, I grew up playing hockey and loving hockey and
watching hockey. I'm from Northern Ontario, so that you know,
hockey just comes very naturally, you learn to walk and
you learned to skate. So I grew up loving hockey,
and I went to school in Toronto, and then I
ended up in upstate New York for grad school, which
is where I met my husband. He was a professional
(11:13):
hockey player, and so, you know, before that, I thought
my life really revolved around hockey. But I had no
idea because after getting in a relationship with a pro
hockey player, then my life really became all about hockey.
And I, you know, was following his career everywhere. I
ended up getting a PhD. While following his career around.
(11:35):
We had a couple stops along the way and a
couple of kids, and I feel now we're settled and
we're living in Seattle, and we're like in this new
chapter of life and I've written a book and now
I'm talking with you guys. So this is this is
really fun.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Thank you good.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
That makes me so happy. I mean, a PhD. Like, sorry,
I didn't know you were talking to doctor. Let's start
this against Yeah, doctor Alexi, I apologize. I did know
that what's your PhD in? It's an education?
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Oh that's amazing.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Yeah, thank you. I thought, you know, maybe someday I
would like teach at a university something like that. I
was trying to, you know, have some options.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Where was your favorite stop? Where were you you were Tampa, Anaheim, Minnesota. Yes, yeah,
that was your favorite.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
I love them all. Like Minnesota is different because that's
like where we also lived in the summer, and that's
where my husband's from. So it was nice to be
around family in Minnesota. But I mean, Tampa was such
a great experience because the team was so good and
there's really something fun about being part of a winning team.
And then Anaheim was great. I mean, California is beautiful,
(12:42):
so it was really great to be out there. But honestly,
I love Seattle and this is really where I want
to be and where I want to live and raise
our kids, and so I'm really happy with where we're
at right now.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
All right, we jumped right to husband, and I know
the story because I looked it up and I've read
about it. But for steners that don't know the story,
we have to talk about the famous DM slide because
it's actually incredible story. So how did you and your
husband meet?
Speaker 5 (13:08):
We met on Twitter? We met online, and yes it
was a DM. I mean, this was like twelve years ago,
and I remember at the time it was very taboo,
Like I remember being like, oh my gosh, we have
to like come up with a like a story, like
with a lie. We can't just tell people we met
online like that's and on social media, Like meeting on
social media was not Now it's so common, like everybody
(13:31):
meets on Instagram or whatever it is. But yes, we met,
and we met on Twitter and I slid into his DMS,
but he very quickly replied, so.
Speaker 6 (13:42):
He didn't give it att Yeah, he didn't even give
it a minute. What was the DM I honestly, I
think I just said like hi, and and then we
just started talking about the meet Yeah. I think the
main thing was like, hey, I'm moving to syracusean what's
it like there? And that was kind of like what
we talked about. But it was funny because I never
(14:03):
thought I was actually going to get to meet him
because I was like in the process of moving to
Syracuse and he was in the playoffs, and so we
kind of like had this agreement like, well, if you're
still in the playoffs when I moved there in like
a month, maybe we'll meet up.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
And his team ended up going all the way to
the final game.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
He had never tried harder, He's.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Never tried harder, and that's the motivation he needed. And
then and that was like the day I moved there.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
So it was like.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Meant to be. You know, Oh, that's actually so sweet.
And I feel like like when you when you're dating
an athlete and I take a weird approach to it.
I think you probably feel the same way because you
played hockey for so long. But like I was a
pro alongside Madison and then I became a wag. But
I'm like, I know a lot about this game and
i know what I'm talking about and I'm not just
a wag. I felt like I kind of lived this
(14:52):
like weird imbalance. Talk about n HL wag culture because
women's wag culture is totally different. Women for women, wag
culture is a little bit different. So like talk a
little bit about what wag culture entails on the men's side.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
So definitely the women are like following their husbands around
like straight up because and because they can, Like there's
the financial aspect of it where you can be supported
to follow your partner around. So a lot of the
women like live in that city with them. They usually
don't have friends or family around because they're just kind
(15:28):
of like dropped in whatever hockey city it is, and
so you have to like become friends and become a
family because those are the only people you know who
are in the same sort of similar situation you are.
And so it's just natural that everybody kind of like
comes together and there's this expectation that you are this
tight knit group together, but there are still women who
(15:49):
will have their own jobs or be going to school,
Like there's definitely some of that stuff. It just gets
more complicated with like green cards and people who are
on you know, visiting visas and different things like that,
and like, I know hockey, and so that definitely has helped,
you know, with my husband and I and me being
able to talk to them about hockey. But there's stuff
(16:12):
because I was never a pro athlete, there's like a
level of it that I will never understand the pressure
of it. And so I really do love when like
two professional athletes come together because there's this level that
like I will never know what that feels like, and
that pressure is crazy, and so there's like an understanding.
I'm sure that you two have with each other.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I always say, it's like a little grace because, like you,
I had two babies while Madison was playing pro, I
retired and started like almost immediately making children, and I
felt like and then I birthed all through our kids
like I was a factory over here. I birth both
of our kids right at the start of the season.
You go through having like the baby with the massive
headphones at a game, and then that baby becomes a toddler,
(16:55):
and then you have another one with the like humongous
things and you've got to worry about like bring the
bottles in, And then do you go through the right door?
I mean, well I had to go through regular security,
so I'm like, do I go through the right door
and get the nice person that's like looking at my
breast milk and not going to open it, like I'm like,
don't touch that, please, And then you have like one
toddler that just wants to run around, and one that
wants to stand on the glass, and one that wants
to play hockey themselves and hates watching it because they
(17:17):
actually want to play. Like it's a lot. I mean,
you guys have mother's rooms in like different spaces at
specific rinks. Yeah, those aren't always open for the women's teams.
Oddly enough, they don't have the same resace. Yeah, that's tough.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
And I've had both experiences because I've done We've done
NHL and AHL. Yeah, and there's there's a huge dip
even when you get to the AHL, Like there's no food,
there's no like special entrance, like it's it's not the same.
Definitely at the NHL, like it is, they make it
as easy on you as possible, Like even if you
are juggling a toddler and a baby, like that's challenging,
(17:52):
but they really do make it as easy on you
as possible. But for sure at the AHL level, like
I was like, what am I even doing here with
these the two kids, like trying to make it happen,
trying to get the cute picture, trying to like create
the memory.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
It's chaotic. It's the it's the part where you're like,
I have this two year old, three year old, four
old insert age here that just wants to like touch
their hand on the glass during warm ups and have
mama touch her hand back. And then immediately after that
connection point, they don't care. They don't care, like I
wish she cared. He's like, I've done the thing and
(18:26):
I know you got the picture. Can have a iPad.
I'm like, yeah, because I actually want to watch this game,
you can have the iPad and like that. So that's
one level, right, Like during the game, JT's not helping
you at all, obviously, I mean there's maybe other people,
there's other resources. But then they come home and they're
tired and they need to recover and they need their sleep,
(18:48):
and you're tired. Like you know, I always say to Maddie, like,
it's not a competition of who's more tired. We can
both be tired and not challenge each other's tired. But
how did that split go? Because I think that is
like the most delicate part of dating a pro athlete
is needing them to be your co parent.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah. Yeah, it was really it was tough.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
And for me, like what worked for us was it
was just the mindset of like I'm handling the kids
and you're handling the hockey, and like that's just kind
of what it has to be during season because it's
so demanding on them. He has to train, he has
to eat, he has to do his nap, like he
has things to do. It just shows like how all
(19:30):
consuming it is, Like he can't be up in the
middle of the night with the baby and I'm breastfeeding,
so it's like, what is useless nipples? What are they
going to even do for me? Like you might as
well sleep. It's just like the mentality is is that
you're just all in and like not even just with
the kids, but like I like scheduled birth in relation
(19:53):
to a non playoff contending hockey team, Like that is
like your team sucked, and I still moved my schedule
around to give birth at a good time, Like like
that's crazy, but that's just like you have to. You
just got to be all in with it, like when
you're in this lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
That's a hard to present draw. I actually have Madison's
teammates all on this absolute gag that Madison was taking
medicine so she could breastfeed so that I could sleep.
I'm like, well we both like it. I was gonna
start breastfeeding, and the whole team was like, like I
had the bit so strong. I was like, babe, it's time,
it's time for your medicine, and everyone was like go
ahead back Like I was like so useless. I was
(20:31):
like just kidding everyone, but like it can happen, like
women can lactate around babies. So it was always just
like I was always like, I wonder if Maddy's like
gonna start like, you know, like needy like breast heads.
And our doctor was like, can you take a deep breath?
Like that's all right?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
I did it. To be clear, I did it, Yeah, fuddy,
But that was the bit.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
But also the flip side of that, right, like every
athlete at some point, there's an end to that. I
recently retired. Your husband retired in twenty twenty one. Did
you feel like a drastic change and was it a
hard adjustment? Because like Anya and I, I think we're
kind of surprised, like we thought it would get easier
because all of a sudden, I'm home and there's the
(21:12):
extra set of hands, et cetera. But there's also like
that weird like reentry adjustment, like what am I doing?
Speaker 1 (21:19):
You know what I mean? Like what was that like
for you guys?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (21:23):
It definitely. So we got really lucky with like his
current job, it is so similar to what he was
doing before because so now he does color commentator for
the Seattle Kraken, So he's on the TV broadcast, he's
at all the games, all the practices, he travels with them,
so like his he's like doing the same thing he's
(21:46):
always done, really, except there's not the physical aspect of it,
which has really helped. So he's not exhausted, as he's
still exhausted because you have to be on when you're
on TV, but the physical element of it is it's
made it easier. And then in the summer he doesn't
have to train, so he gets a lot more time
with the family at home. So we were really lucky
(22:08):
that things are similar enough that it wasn't like this
drastic oh my gosh, we have to rediscover ourselves, but
different enough that I feel like he's more present and
not having to worry about like are we going to
be traded this week? Like are we what's going to
are we going to be sent to the miners? Like
are you going to get another contract? Like not having
to worry so much about that stuff is also a
(22:29):
lot easier on both of us, really.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
So what's the village look like? You know, you've traveled
a bunch. Is it having someone at home to take
care of the kids. Is family travel with you? Do
you have family out in Seattle? Like kind of what
has the stops all? Kind of look like, Yeah, my
mother in law is wonderful. My mom's wonderful. They'll come
out and you know a few times a year for us.
But my kids are both elementary school age. Yeah, and
(22:52):
that is like so freeing.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
That is like the level you need to get to
and and your world just kind of mellows out a
little bit and you have a second to breathe, and
so there are somewhere every day and then I get
to work. It's made a huge It's made a huge,
huge difference. And I look back on having too. I
had two under two and two toddlers, and I'm like,
what was I doing? Like, how did I ever do that?
(23:18):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
So you're saying we should have a third.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
No, Like he's not advocating for a third. That's all
she said is we have two toddlers and we're not
advocating for a third.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
On the way out, our kids are so cute, we
need one more.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
Oh, I know, it's but then you have an odd
number and somebody always gets left out. You know.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
My reason why I feel like I missed, Like both
my kids were born right at the start of hockey season,
so I feel like I missed so much.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
They just they don't do anything when they just lay
and it's just like I feel like I missed it.
They're way more fun when they get older. The kids
are fun now. They do fun stuff. We have a
four to two, so like.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
They are the pool seventeen times since we've been down
here house.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
That's kind of fun. I mean, like that's exciting. Let's
talk about something else, because we could get really deep
into the poop talking coop in the pool talking.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
All right, I want to talk about Lexi's book before
we really dive into it. Lexi, can you introduce your
book for us and give a little quick summary for
our listeners.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I can.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
I have it right here. So it's called Shoot Your Shot.
It's a hockey rom com and Jalen is a struggling
NHL player who shares an anonymous night of fun with
local artists Lucy, and suddenly his game really experiences a change,
and he is delusional enough to believe that his improving
game is because of her, but he has to convince
(24:56):
her to be as good luck charm for the season,
and a good luck does not come.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Cheap, so that Madison knows too well what good luck
charms can do for her career, right, baby, exactly, no comment,
no comment. It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
So when I first started reading your book, I thought
this was actually you and your husband's love story. And
I got to like chapter fifteen, I was like, Babe,
this is raunchy.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
That is, kids have read this. Do you think this
is true?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
And then I googled it and then there was the
clarifying information that it wasn't that.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
But I love that.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
I think that I take that as a compliment that
my writing was very believable.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
It was very convincing.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
But so, hockey is a really popular sub genre in
the romance world for some reason, which feels kind of
wild to me.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Why do you think that is or is there a
reason for that?
Speaker 5 (25:54):
So I'm like you, I really didn't know too much
about it until a couple years ago that how big
and popular hockey romance is and it's a whole world.
It's really wildly popular, and there's other sports too, but
for whatever reason, hockey it's like a little bit more accessible,
Like it's believable, it's a little bit believable. These guys
(26:18):
maybe are a little bit more approachable. They're not, you know,
like celebrities in a sense, like maybe they're a little
bit more down to earth. And then also, I just
love hockey, and I understand why others would find it
fun and sexy. Like it's very rough, it's very it's
a challenging sport. There's fighting, and you know, players are
(26:40):
kind of quirky and weird too a little bit, like
so I get the appeal for sure, But yeah, it
is a wild, giant world.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I very much understand the lore, and I think we
all played hockey right. But like, I am attracted to
my wife obviously, but like have always dated athletes in
that we're welcome in that world because I'm a hockey player,
Like I felt like it was always hockey players. And
I'm a pretty small gal. And when I put my
gear on, I feel like I look big, Like I
look like, you know, kind of scary. I look kind
(27:10):
of like, you know, taller all these things. And I
take my gear off and it's always that moment where
someone's like, oh my god, you're actually like cute and
tiny and whatever, and like I kind of get that
in the men's space right, like like these men are
wearing this like big like knight in Shining armor, like
they're fully covered, and then they take that all off
and they're like shredded and super cute and usually homegrown
(27:31):
like usually like from the sticks, like usually weird as hell,
Like hockey players are kind of weird. I think there's like, yeah,
there's like a kink in.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
That, yes, for sure.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
And again it's like that believability, like he's not trying
to be like some tough mob or a cool celebrity,
Like he's just like some guy that you would fall
in love with.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah, he's got like a helmet on, Like what is Yeah,
so you.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Have a pH d in education and you've written a
hockey romance novel. Have you always wanted to write a book?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Been a writer? Like? How is how the writing? And
why the book?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I was a creative writing major in college, so that's
an interesting cool yeah jump to me.
Speaker 5 (28:11):
Yeah, writing has always been a part of my life.
My undergrad stuff is in like media studies and public relations.
I've always loved social media, so like in a way
that's still storytelling and you know, create creativity, creative storytelling,
and I've always so getting a PhD was always a goal.
Writing a book was always a goal. I just never
really knew what I was going to write. As I,
(28:33):
you know, was reading all these hockey romances, I was like, oh,
I could totally do this, and I could you know,
write the hockey in a way that's realistic and I
could kind of share, you know, some of the behind
the scenes some of the realism that I've experienced throughout,
you know, following JT's career around when.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
You realized you wanted to write a book, it was like,
that's what you knew you wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Was that specifically?
Speaker 5 (28:55):
Yeah? I had, and I had been like, you know,
writing just for fun, trying to like get some thing
to work. And then yeah, it just really kind of
clicked as I was reading these and I'm like, gosh,
I talk all the time about hockey, like it would
it just made sense and I'm glad I did. Like
it just came kind of really pouring out, and I've said,
like it really helped connect me back to the game too,
(29:16):
And you know, I was such a fan. And then
sometimes when your significant other plays like you maybe hate
the sport a little bit, like it becomes such a
business that you're likeugh, I'm just over it, And so
writing this was a fun way to connect back to
being a fan of it too.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
How much of that connection or front row seat that
you had to hockey and pro hockey in that way
infused into the book or poured into the book. Do
you feel like it had a big hand on kind
of the way that this story was told.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
Yeah, I definitely like wanted to make sure that it
was very fictional and nobody would like try to say, oh,
this is obviously about this person or this is about
this person. But I think if you read it, like
even just all the hockey players I wrote about, like
you look on any team and you'd find those guys
like the friends I did, the yeah, the vet guy,
the young guy, you know, the Russian kid, Like, there's
(30:05):
all those the players are all there, and there's some
of the little funny stories that I've heard over the years,
and some of the dynamic with the other wives in
the book, like that stuff that I've learned too. So
definitely like trying to find this balance of making sure
it's not actually somebody, making sure it's interesting, and making
sure it's realistic.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Well, I thought the wags in the book are kind
of are kind of brutal, and I mean, I get it.
I've been a wag. I can see those stereotypes and
also like personalities as well. How did you then get
received back into that community? Where was anyone offended? Like
did you create like a little stir there or was
it all like in good fun. Supportive of the of
(30:44):
the book.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
I think like for the most part, there needs to
be some tension and some drama in it, and obviously
using the wags is like an easy way to do that.
And I think that, like it's truth, Like any girl
who's been in that like situation will tell you, like
there's gonna be a little bit of drama. Like you
are trying to throw together fifteen twenty women who the
only thing you have in common is that your husbands
(31:06):
are on the same team. Like that's an insane friend
group to just like throw together. So you're going to
meet people who will be your friends for life, and
then you'll meet people who you maybe don't ever want
to talk to again after that situation. And I think
that's fine. And so with the book, I wanted to
like show a little bit of that but then ultimately,
like at the end, they're still nice and everybody still
(31:28):
kind of comes together to be like, you know, we
are still a team and we're not going to be
totally rude or exclude you.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I also want to talk about in your book the diversity.
So for context, Jalen is the male who becomes the
boyfriend husband. He's black, lucy bisexual, white female, and they
meet and end up falling in love, which is why
when I first started reading the book, I was like, Oh,
this is their story, Like everything about it made sense.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
It's not your story. But all those things are in
with intention.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
So can you talk a little bit as to why
that is, because I think that that's super important.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
I like write, you know, the world that I see
in the world that I live in. And and also
the book is set in Seattle, and Seattle is like
a wonderful queer community and a very accepting environment. And
it is fiction, so I'm not going to write, you know,
a super realistic you know, because sometimes the hockey world
(32:29):
and players and sometimes they can be dicks and homophobic
and horrible people Like that is just a truth. And
so with my book, I was balancing the realism, but
also like, I'm not going to write about that. This
is going to be my world and in it everybody
is accepting, and it's going to be a story that's
diverse and shares different perspectives. A lot of the hockey
(32:50):
romances that I read it's straight, it's white, it's so
how can I really reflect the world that I live
in and have more of a diverse book.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
It's super interesting and important to call out the LGBTQ
plus aspect of the story, and like men's hockey just
gets a super shitty rap. And I think that what
most people don't realize is most guys are really good guys, right,
and they show up how they do pride, they and
they do all these things.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
So again, why is that important? And why do you
think that there is such like a pushback there? Right?
Like why is it's such a hot topic button situation.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Yeah, I think that hockey itself, like men's hockey itself,
it's such like this conforming sport, like even from a
young age, like they're just taught that it's team above
anything everything and not even just like the issues that
you speak out about, but like how you look, what
you dress, what you wear, like all of that stuff
(33:52):
is so scrutinized. If you look at youth sports, like
they all have the same haircut, they're all wearing the
same thing, like it's so uniform, and that reinforcement even
in the NHL, of like this is a team sport.
Don't do anything that's going to distract from the team.
And so I think it can be hard for players,
even players who want to say stuff, Like I know
that there are NHL players who want to say stuff
(34:15):
and be more active, and it's just they don't know how.
And I don't know, maybe the league needs to make
more opportunities for them to be able to instead of
like taking away the opportunities, Like maybe there needs to
be more opportunities for players to do stuff. But yeah,
I mean the characters that I wrote would totally be
those guys who would be taping their sticks and wearing
(34:36):
the specialty jerseys and showing up to those things.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
A thousand percent. And I think the part that I
like having the book kind of have this humongous scene
at a Pride game is so intentional and you know,
I'll peel it back to a layer of like a
past life of mine. But at one point, I was
the general manager of the Riveters, and in that world,
we had two very foundational games we had, you know,
(35:01):
and we had lots of them, right, like those specialty
games are really important, But we had our Pride Night
and at that point, it was right after the NHL
stopped doing Pride jerseys, So it was like a very
kind of like apex time of like are we going
to put the Pride jerseys on? Or are we going
to start conforming? I don't know, there's a lot of
gay people in women's hockey, so we were like no,
(35:21):
But that was a really foundational moment. Why did you
choose so intentionally to interwork that Pride game?
Speaker 5 (35:27):
Yeah, I mean I was really pissed when the NHL
took away, you know, not having the jerseys and took
away all the specialty night stuff. And so for me,
the Pride game was always my favorite game, Like, I
want to go to that game. It's such a celebration
and the crowd is always so great, and so I
wanted to write like this is the perspective from the
(35:48):
stands and how much fun it is and how much
it means to people, and how it's just a game
you know, but it's that bridge for some people of like, hey,
you're welcome here, you're accepted here, this is a safe space.
We're celebrating it here, and so right I wanted to share,
like what that feels like for queer people to experience
from the stands.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
One thing that really stood out to me is the
way that you infused real social issues in the book.
There's a very specific reference multiple times to Jalen's friend Cam,
who lost his life to an overdose, and you constantly
come in and out of that story and why it's
important in Jalen's life, and it's something that's really big
right now in society. Our family has been affected by
(36:29):
the opioid crisis unfortunately more than once, and it sucks,
but it's super important to talk about and so I
applaud you for that, But also why that character and
why is it important that we share these stories within
stories to continue to educate people.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
It was more just I know how big of an
issue it is. My book is sent in Seattle, so
I wanted to tie something to the community where it's like, Okay,
something bad happened, but how can Jalen reach out to
his community too. It's also like I would love to
see hockey players NHL hockey players do this sort of
thing too, like to reach out to their communities and
they don't have to start their own foundations, but things
(37:06):
that you are passionate about or that you have been
touched with in your life, like you can just send
an email to or even just to your team, but
to reach out to your community and to find ways
where you can help out. And the way you know,
Jalen remembers his friend is not his friend being a
drug addict, but like being a really good person, and
the way he like celebrates him towards the end of
the book is celebrating that side.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Of his friend who he lost.
Speaker 5 (37:30):
It also kind of showed this difference in life path
between Jalen and his friend, and that kind of like
really made his guilt worse. His friends start off at
the same place, but he makes it to the NHL
and his friend doesn't, and he's struggling with that guilt
and doesn't know how to show up for his friend
or for the family, And Jalen really has to try
(37:52):
has to do a lot of like internal work and
grieving and coming to terms with that loss and then
how he can turn that into something that honors his friend.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
I thank you for adding that into the book. And
I think a big part of us bringing that up
is just to say thank you. It means a lot
and meant a lot to us to read it and
see it so on a different lens. What has been
the response to the book? How is the hockey community
responding to you putting the book out? What's the vibes?
Speaker 5 (38:17):
I I mean, people have been so kind to me
and so supportive. I know people were really excited about
this and wanting to have something where like the hockey
is going to be accurate and they're not going to
like cause I have like real hockey fans who you know,
were ready and waiting for this book. And so to
hear them say that the hockey is accurate, and to
(38:39):
hear that they've laughed at it like that, and to
hear that, you know, it's like touched emotionally too, Like
those were the real things that I was hoping for.
I was hoping the hockey was going to be accurate,
and I was hoping you were going to get a laugh,
and I was hoping that there would be like some moments,
some emotional moments too, where you can like really connect
to the players and so I, yeah, everybody's been really
(39:01):
kind and really supportive, and we had some events here
in Seattle, and it was really nice connecting with people
in real life too.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
So next book is there a next book? Is it
a series? I loved this book. Honestly, I'm going to
read it again.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Everyone you'll get through this. It was really good. The
way you write, you're like in the scene, it is
so good. You are a phenomenal writer.
Speaker 5 (39:22):
Thank you you see story.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I loved it.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I read it in three days, which is saying a
lot for me because I think you enrolled and never attended.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
So yeah, she had that's funny.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I took a lot of directed studies.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
Yeah, I have a second book coming out. It'll come
out next May, so in about a year. And the
idea is that it's the same universe, so you'll get
some character overlap and some like team overlap, some like
easter eggs that you'll see. But it's going to be
a new story with new characters. And I can tell
(40:01):
you it's gonna be set in Minnesota, which is like
fun because Seattle it was like, you know, the characters
didn't really know hockey. She didn't really know hockey. She
like everybody was like being really introduced to it. But
we're going to Minnesota, where everybody knows their hockey, and
so the main female character, she's she knows her stuff.
(40:23):
Really it's a little bit different that way. Yeah, And
I say, like, if if shoot your shot has to
do with like superstition and luck, then like the next
book it's about getting revenge and hockey nepotism.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Oh, I love it.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
My Scorpio Rising is like gonna love this book. Okay, Well,
every episode we end on this kind of place of advice.
We stick with parenting advice. You have two babies, We're
gonna kind of stay in that lane. We always say,
what is the best advice you never received or wish
you had received or have received. And I want to
(40:57):
kind of go down the route of parenting, but also
you've done so many exceptional things as a parent but
also for yourself, and I think that that advice is
always so hard to grasp, and like how to continue
to be Anya when you're also Whylan and Harlan's mom,
and how to continue to be Lexi when you're JT's wife.
A mom like all these things. So what's your best
(41:18):
advice on how to do that as well as you.
Speaker 5 (41:21):
Have Okay, I have really practical advice. It's not going
to be moving or touching. It's not going to be
like a beautiful quote. The way I survived is whatever
city my husband was playing in, I got a gym membership,
whether it was the YMCA or like a fancy gym.
I found a gym that had childcare, and I took
(41:43):
me and the kids and we would go to the
gym and some days I would walk on the treadmill
and watch Netflix. Some days I would do a good workout,
and some days I would just sit there, literally just
sit there while my kids were being taken care of
for like two hours. That is my biggest mom hack
in the world is do that. It's such good childcare
(42:05):
and you're just like, you're you have to stay there.
But that's my big mom hack to get.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Leave the gym. Don't leave them, don't leave the jim.
Speaker 5 (42:14):
They will, yeah, they will call the authorities if you
just dump your kids with them, but they'll watch your
kids for two hours. You don't have to work out,
you can shower, you.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Can even just take a shower.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
That is Actually we've never sign a contrast, but you're right.
Mattie's old teammate, her wife runs a child care facility
there and you can drop the kids off for two
and a half hours. And she's like, guys, why don't
you join a lifetime and do that because it's free.
You're a member of the gym, right, But like it's free.
It's these kids get to go play in like a
gym setting. They get to go tire themselves out, and
(42:46):
then they come home and they veg. That's amazing advice.
It doesn't always have to be so beautiful. I feel
like the best advice we get is the advice that's like,
take a nap, Like I'm yeah, I never thought about that.
That's anything to relax. Yeah, I love it. Well, thank
you so much for joining us. Thank you talking about
your book opening up kind of exploring some of the
(43:06):
nuances of what hockey is and what we wish it was.
I think aspirationally, we all really want it to be better,
and I can feel that from your energy, from what
you put into the world from your book, So thank you.
I always say hockey culture needs to be changed culture
or will never survive. So thank you very much for
everything you're doing. We are so excited for the next book,
(43:29):
and thank you for joining us on These Pets Puffs.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Thank you so much for having.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Me, and that's all we have today. Thank you for listening.
I'm Aya Packer and I'm Madison Packer and this is
These Packs Puck. These Packs Puck is a production of
Iheartwomen's Sports in Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
It's hosted by us Madison and Onya Packer.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Emily Meronov is our awesome senior producer and story editor.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
We were mixed and mastered by Mary Doo.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Our executive producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz, and Ali Perry.
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm a recently retired pro hockey vet, a founding member
of the National Women's Hockey League, a pillar in the PHF,
and an inaugural member of the PWHL Sirens.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
And I'm Anypacker, also a former pro hockey player, also
founding member of the National Women's Hockey League. But today
I'm a full Madison Packer. Stand.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Anya and I met through hockey, then we got married,
and now we're moms.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
To two awesome toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
And on our new podcast, These Packs Puck, we're opening
up about the chaos of our daily lives between the
juggle of being athletes, raising children and all the messiness
in between.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hey bb, hey you, I'm excited for today. You got
a good week coming up. We got a good chat
plans today.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
H I'm excited. Ready should we get into it?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Let's get into it because I know you're ready to brawl.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I'm going to put some people on blast hockey hot take.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
This This sweek's hot take is not a hockey hot take,
although maybe if you're a mom traveling to a rink
that suffers from this same situation. But I want to
talk about the number of places we'll just say even
just kid friendly places, but number of places in general
in twenty twenty five that do not have change tables
(01:23):
in their bathroom or anywhere in their building.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It's happened a lot to us, but the most offensive,
most recently, we were at the Naples Grand Hotel.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
It's a beach resort, it's a pool.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
It's a very very family friendly environment, and they have
brunch for an agreaziously overpriced rate. But it's a family place, right,
and we're all excited.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
We go with your family Harlem poops as one does.
I go into the lobby, no change table in bathroom one.
I go into the second bathroom, no change table. So
I go to the front.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Desk and I said, surely you guys aren't a kid
friendly resort with no change table in your bathroom, to
which the bellman said, well, you can just change her
on the floor, to which my response was not great.
But then the manager comes out and goes, oh, well,
you know what, we're going through some renovations, so we
don't have one right now. And then I obviously got
(02:22):
snappy back because there were no holes in the wall.
It's not like you took the change table off the
wall to start renovating two years from now, Like what
a cop out?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Also it was a woman, but.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Like, really, you have thirty five families sitting pool side
with one hundred kids running around, you want a change
table in your bathroom.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
If you have a kid's menu and you don't have
a changing table right off the rip, the business should
go under.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So you know what I did.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I took her in the bathroom and I changed her
on the marble makeup station in the bathroom.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So I used that.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Little poop on the counter. I'm sure you did. Oh,
I did it, just shmeer a little.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So I looked it up. You can order it.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
You can get a change table on Amazon for one
hundred bucks, which is what I said to the manager
as well.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Great commercial brand, Yeah, run a little series. We should
start going to restaurants and if they don't have a
change table, we should work with our friends at Koala
and help them understand how easy it is to find
two studs amount to change table. It shouldn't be that hard.
Women shouldn't feel like they're a burden when they walk
into a place that they're a paying customer and cannot
(03:30):
change their children.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Equally at when we only put a change table in
the women's.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Bathroom, Yeah, what are we doing here?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Everyone's settled down for a second, But there are families
that don't have a woman in them, right, it's crazy.
How is it not something that you think about? And like,
we want people to have babies, right, we're forcing people
to have babies, and you want have babies in this
you don't have a place to change them, and like,
when you really think about it, it's not just oh,
change them on the floor, because then mom.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Or dad has to get down on a discussing floor.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Even if you have the little pad to put your
kid on, which we have in our diaper bag, but
I'm not getting on the bathroom floor.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Then people you change him in public, people stare at you.
It's gross, like a creepy. There's so many different things
as to watch change your kid in the bathroom.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
To your point of the then having the changing tables
only be in the women's room, then you're saying, okay, yeah,
there could be a gig couple that goes out and
it happens to be both dads. But what if dad
just has the kids doesn't matter if if mom isn't
around anymore.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
For any plethora of reasons.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Literally, what if this is just a man with a
baby that walks into a facility and pays for his
food and sits down with his kid and orders off
the kids menu and is having a grand old time
until he's confronted with the bold reality that for him
to change that child, he needs to wait at the
women's bathroom door knock and excuse every other woman so
(04:51):
that they feel safe so that he can change his child.
That's bullshit. Everybody should have a change table in the
men's and women's And here's the other thing that makes
me angry is that may keep going is when the
change table in the women's room or any bathroom is
in the handicap stall versus being on the wall. So
(05:14):
now not only.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
See is a disability, it is a disability.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I got short term disability today. Stuff. But it's crazy,
like you're now conflating disabilities and somebody that needs an
accessible space, right because like then something doesn't go in
the handicap bathroom, like a handrail or a pull cord
or something that may be necessary for a handicap bathroom
because you're wasting space in a handicap accessible room to
(05:40):
give space to a baby.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, I agree. I think I'll meet you in the
middle on it.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I'll take a change table in the handicap stall over
no change table. Yeah, but I think if you have
the space, like why not, why use a stall to
do it? It's a little more private. But it's alarming
the number of places that don't have change tables. Travel
a lot, and if you're on our upcoming path of destruction,
get a change table in your bathroom. Otherwise we're putting
(06:06):
you on blast. I'm pretty sure that the Naples grand
won't let me back in. I think they immediately put
your picture on the wall.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
The valet sprinted to get our car. He ran, dude,
he ran.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
That was scary. That was like, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Get this crazy lady out of here.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Besides our change table debacle, I want to bring us
back to reality because it's time to just check where
the head's at Madison, give us a check in.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I'm a ninety two.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Holy I only got to be an eight today.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I slept great.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I got up with the kids, took them right to
school because they're not going to bed at night. So
the new thing is that's fine, but mammy and mama
need time. So the new thing is, if you want
to take my knee time at night, then I'm gonna
ship your right.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
You in school, I have goodness to speed and you.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Know what, I think it might have worked. It goes people.
And why is we here so early today?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
You're gonna dug the whole lot of this truck and
it and it hit him like it right as as
I'm walking to the door, He's like, oh, well, I
went to bed last night.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
He's like, crime there, buddy.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Shouldn't Harlan be here? And I can have five more
minutes in my playroom? No kid, so eighty nothing can
bring me down.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I gotta workout in. I got a little creatine, a
little protein shake.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
I'm glad you're on the play.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Where.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Oh okay, I'm I'm at a seventy and I was
gonna be much higher. But my last game of pickleball
we got absolutely throttled.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
And I want to sleep on the old people in South.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a little dicey here.
Pickleball is super annoying because I'm very good at moving
I'm very good at getting the ball, like I'm not
so great at the like sneaky little shots that they have.
Like I can run a drop shot like I can,
I can definitely get into it. But when I try
to put power on a pickleball, most of the time
it goes out, and that is very frustrating to me.
(08:04):
My partner wasn't doing her best. She's very good as well,
but it was girls versus boys. It was these two
older men and they were both pretty athletic, so they
kicked our pants, which was really annoying. But pickle ball
in the morning with a myriad of old people, there's
nothing more humbling than looking across the court from somebody's
got double knee braces. The hair is completely white, the
(08:25):
skin's creepy, They're looking old and they just freaking jam it.
And then they go pedicure because they smash the ball
in between your feet. Nothing more embarrassing and inhumane. So
I've lost thirty points off of a fabulous day because
these old people are kicking my Yes, they.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Were good this morning, and the guys really fush and
you want to jump in. I was like, uh no,
last time I planned it gave someone a breakfast ball
and he beat me a lemon. Nothing.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, not good with the pickleball situation. I really enjoy it.
I've learned a bunch of different lessons about the strategy
of pickleball now, so I'm in on the pickleball thing.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Fastest sport in the United States of America. So that's
our retired Florida life. Let's get back into hockey kind
of today. We're talking to Lexie Lafleur Brown, who is
a number of things, one of which is a famous
hockey wag, wives and girlfriends. For those who don't know,
she's also a doctor. She's an author, she's an all.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Around badass, comes from a long line of hockey fans.
But most interestingly, in my opinion, and recently, she has
written a book, Shoot Your Shot.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
It's raunchy. I love it. It was so good.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It's a hockey rom com romance novel, which I didn't
even know was a thing. It's actually a very popular thing.
Did you know that that was a thing, babe?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Honestly, not until we got pretty deep into it. I
was excited about the idea of starting, like to read
some of these and as they go, hers is actually
kind of mild, and I'm obsessed because one we're now
on a quest to find a pretty sappok like girl
girl hockey romance novel, which I think could absolutely be
a very real thing. So if anyone knows any good
(10:04):
sapphic hockey romance novels, leave them in the comments. I
want to start reading them all. But this is episode one,
Conversation one with Lexie Lafflur Brown, and I think we're
going to start a little hockey romance book club with
some of these really incredible writers. Hi, Lexi, welcome to
(10:30):
these pas Puck.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
We are so excited. We're going to talk all about
your book, Shoot Your Shot, which came out last March.
But before we talk about all the juicy details in there,
I want to talk about you. I know we haven't
personally met before. I think you and I have like
fevershly tweeted at each other. But let's talk about yourself,
You're involvement in hockey and who you are to our listeners.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Yeah, I grew up playing hockey and loving hockey and
watching hockey. I'm from Northern Ontario, so that you know,
hockey just comes very naturally, you learn to walk and
you learned to skate. So I grew up loving hockey,
and I went to school in Toronto, and then I
ended up in upstate New York for grad school, which
is where I met my husband. He was a professional
(11:13):
hockey player, and so, you know, before that, I thought
my life really revolved around hockey. But I had no
idea because after getting in a relationship with a pro
hockey player, then my life really became all about hockey.
And I, you know, was following his career everywhere. I
ended up getting a PhD. While following his career around.
(11:35):
We had a couple stops along the way and a
couple of kids, and I feel now we're settled and
we're living in Seattle, and we're like in this new
chapter of life and I've written a book and now
I'm talking with you guys. So this is this is
really fun.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Thank you good.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
That makes me so happy. I mean, a PhD. Like, sorry,
I didn't know you were talking to doctor. Let's start
this against Yeah, doctor Alexi, I apologize. I did know
that what's your PhD in? It's an education?
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Oh that's amazing.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Yeah, thank you. I thought, you know, maybe someday I
would like teach at a university something like that. I
was trying to, you know, have some options.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Where was your favorite stop? Where were you you were Tampa, Anaheim, Minnesota. Yes, yeah,
that was your favorite.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
I love them all. Like Minnesota is different because that's
like where we also lived in the summer, and that's
where my husband's from. So it was nice to be
around family in Minnesota. But I mean, Tampa was such
a great experience because the team was so good and
there's really something fun about being part of a winning team.
And then Anaheim was great. I mean, California is beautiful,
(12:42):
so it was really great to be out there. But honestly,
I love Seattle and this is really where I want
to be and where I want to live and raise
our kids, and so I'm really happy with where we're
at right now.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
All right, we jumped right to husband, and I know
the story because I looked it up and I've read
about it. But for steners that don't know the story,
we have to talk about the famous DM slide because
it's actually incredible story. So how did you and your
husband meet?
Speaker 5 (13:08):
We met on Twitter? We met online, and yes it
was a DM. I mean, this was like twelve years ago,
and I remember at the time it was very taboo,
Like I remember being like, oh my gosh, we have
to like come up with a like a story, like
with a lie. We can't just tell people we met
online like that's and on social media, Like meeting on
social media was not Now it's so common, like everybody
(13:31):
meets on Instagram or whatever it is. But yes, we met,
and we met on Twitter and I slid into his DMS,
but he very quickly replied, so.
Speaker 6 (13:42):
He didn't give it att Yeah, he didn't even give
it a minute. What was the DM I honestly, I
think I just said like hi, and and then we
just started talking about the meet Yeah. I think the
main thing was like, hey, I'm moving to syracusean what's
it like there? And that was kind of like what
we talked about. But it was funny because I never
(14:03):
thought I was actually going to get to meet him
because I was like in the process of moving to
Syracuse and he was in the playoffs, and so we
kind of like had this agreement like, well, if you're
still in the playoffs when I moved there in like
a month, maybe we'll meet up.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
And his team ended up going all the way to
the final game.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
He had never tried harder, He's.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Never tried harder, and that's the motivation he needed. And
then and that was like the day I moved there.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
So it was like.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Meant to be. You know, Oh, that's actually so sweet.
And I feel like like when you when you're dating
an athlete and I take a weird approach to it.
I think you probably feel the same way because you
played hockey for so long. But like I was a
pro alongside Madison and then I became a wag. But
I'm like, I know a lot about this game and
i know what I'm talking about and I'm not just
a wag. I felt like I kind of lived this
(14:52):
like weird imbalance. Talk about n HL wag culture because
women's wag culture is totally different. Women for women, wag
culture is a little bit different. So like talk a
little bit about what wag culture entails on the men's side.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
So definitely the women are like following their husbands around
like straight up because and because they can, Like there's
the financial aspect of it where you can be supported
to follow your partner around. So a lot of the
women like live in that city with them. They usually
don't have friends or family around because they're just kind
(15:28):
of like dropped in whatever hockey city it is, and
so you have to like become friends and become a
family because those are the only people you know who
are in the same sort of similar situation you are.
And so it's just natural that everybody kind of like
comes together and there's this expectation that you are this
tight knit group together, but there are still women who
(15:49):
will have their own jobs or be going to school,
Like there's definitely some of that stuff. It just gets
more complicated with like green cards and people who are
on you know, visiting visas and different things like that,
and like, I know hockey, and so that definitely has helped,
you know, with my husband and I and me being
able to talk to them about hockey. But there's stuff
(16:12):
because I was never a pro athlete, there's like a
level of it that I will never understand the pressure
of it. And so I really do love when like
two professional athletes come together because there's this level that
like I will never know what that feels like, and
that pressure is crazy, and so there's like an understanding.
I'm sure that you two have with each other.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I always say, it's like a little grace because, like you,
I had two babies while Madison was playing pro, I
retired and started like almost immediately making children, and I
felt like and then I birthed all through our kids
like I was a factory over here. I birth both
of our kids right at the start of the season.
You go through having like the baby with the massive
headphones at a game, and then that baby becomes a toddler,
(16:55):
and then you have another one with the like humongous
things and you've got to worry about like bring the
bottles in, And then do you go through the right door?
I mean, well I had to go through regular security,
so I'm like, do I go through the right door
and get the nice person that's like looking at my
breast milk and not going to open it, like I'm like,
don't touch that, please, And then you have like one
toddler that just wants to run around, and one that
wants to stand on the glass, and one that wants
to play hockey themselves and hates watching it because they
(17:17):
actually want to play. Like it's a lot. I mean,
you guys have mother's rooms in like different spaces at
specific rinks. Yeah, those aren't always open for the women's teams.
Oddly enough, they don't have the same resace. Yeah, that's tough.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
And I've had both experiences because I've done We've done
NHL and AHL. Yeah, and there's there's a huge dip
even when you get to the AHL, Like there's no food,
there's no like special entrance, like it's it's not the same.
Definitely at the NHL, like it is, they make it
as easy on you as possible, Like even if you
are juggling a toddler and a baby, like that's challenging,
(17:52):
but they really do make it as easy on you
as possible. But for sure at the AHL level, like
I was like, what am I even doing here with
these the two kids, like trying to make it happen,
trying to get the cute picture, trying to like create
the memory.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
It's chaotic. It's the it's the part where you're like,
I have this two year old, three year old, four
old insert age here that just wants to like touch
their hand on the glass during warm ups and have
mama touch her hand back. And then immediately after that
connection point, they don't care. They don't care, like I
wish she cared. He's like, I've done the thing and
(18:26):
I know you got the picture. Can have a iPad.
I'm like, yeah, because I actually want to watch this game,
you can have the iPad and like that. So that's
one level, right, Like during the game, JT's not helping
you at all, obviously, I mean there's maybe other people,
there's other resources. But then they come home and they're
tired and they need to recover and they need their sleep,
(18:48):
and you're tired. Like you know, I always say to Maddie, like,
it's not a competition of who's more tired. We can
both be tired and not challenge each other's tired. But
how did that split go? Because I think that is
like the most delicate part of dating a pro athlete
is needing them to be your co parent.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah. Yeah, it was really it was tough.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
And for me, like what worked for us was it
was just the mindset of like I'm handling the kids
and you're handling the hockey, and like that's just kind
of what it has to be during season because it's
so demanding on them. He has to train, he has
to eat, he has to do his nap, like he
has things to do. It just shows like how all
(19:30):
consuming it is, Like he can't be up in the
middle of the night with the baby and I'm breastfeeding,
so it's like, what is useless nipples? What are they
going to even do for me? Like you might as
well sleep. It's just like the mentality is is that
you're just all in and like not even just with
the kids, but like I like scheduled birth in relation
(19:53):
to a non playoff contending hockey team, Like that is
like your team sucked, and I still moved my schedule
around to give birth at a good time, Like like
that's crazy, but that's just like you have to. You
just got to be all in with it, like when
you're in this lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
That's a hard to present draw. I actually have Madison's
teammates all on this absolute gag that Madison was taking
medicine so she could breastfeed so that I could sleep.
I'm like, well we both like it. I was gonna
start breastfeeding, and the whole team was like, like I
had the bit so strong. I was like, babe, it's time,
it's time for your medicine, and everyone was like go
ahead back Like I was like so useless. I was
(20:31):
like just kidding everyone, but like it can happen, like
women can lactate around babies. So it was always just
like I was always like, I wonder if Maddy's like
gonna start like, you know, like needy like breast heads.
And our doctor was like, can you take a deep breath?
Like that's all right?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
I did it. To be clear, I did it, Yeah, fuddy,
But that was the bit.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
But also the flip side of that, right, like every
athlete at some point, there's an end to that. I
recently retired. Your husband retired in twenty twenty one. Did
you feel like a drastic change and was it a
hard adjustment? Because like Anya and I, I think we're
kind of surprised, like we thought it would get easier
because all of a sudden, I'm home and there's the
(21:12):
extra set of hands, et cetera. But there's also like
that weird like reentry adjustment, like what am I doing?
Speaker 1 (21:19):
You know what I mean? Like what was that like
for you guys?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (21:23):
It definitely. So we got really lucky with like his
current job, it is so similar to what he was
doing before because so now he does color commentator for
the Seattle Kraken, So he's on the TV broadcast, he's
at all the games, all the practices, he travels with them,
so like his he's like doing the same thing he's
(21:46):
always done, really, except there's not the physical aspect of it,
which has really helped. So he's not exhausted, as he's
still exhausted because you have to be on when you're
on TV, but the physical element of it is it's
made it easier. And then in the summer he doesn't
have to train, so he gets a lot more time
with the family at home. So we were really lucky
(22:08):
that things are similar enough that it wasn't like this
drastic oh my gosh, we have to rediscover ourselves, but
different enough that I feel like he's more present and
not having to worry about like are we going to
be traded this week? Like are we what's going to
are we going to be sent to the miners? Like
are you going to get another contract? Like not having
to worry so much about that stuff is also a
(22:29):
lot easier on both of us, really.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
So what's the village look like? You know, you've traveled
a bunch. Is it having someone at home to take
care of the kids. Is family travel with you? Do
you have family out in Seattle? Like kind of what
has the stops all? Kind of look like, Yeah, my
mother in law is wonderful. My mom's wonderful. They'll come
out and you know a few times a year for us.
But my kids are both elementary school age. Yeah, and
(22:52):
that is like so freeing.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
That is like the level you need to get to
and and your world just kind of mellows out a
little bit and you have a second to breathe, and
so there are somewhere every day and then I get
to work. It's made a huge It's made a huge,
huge difference. And I look back on having too. I
had two under two and two toddlers, and I'm like,
what was I doing? Like, how did I ever do that?
(23:18):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
So you're saying we should have a third.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
No, Like he's not advocating for a third. That's all
she said is we have two toddlers and we're not
advocating for a third.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
On the way out, our kids are so cute, we
need one more.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
Oh, I know, it's but then you have an odd
number and somebody always gets left out. You know.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
My reason why I feel like I missed, Like both
my kids were born right at the start of hockey season,
so I feel like I missed so much.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
They just they don't do anything when they just lay
and it's just like I feel like I missed it.
They're way more fun when they get older. The kids
are fun now. They do fun stuff. We have a
four to two, so like.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
They are the pool seventeen times since we've been down
here house.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
That's kind of fun. I mean, like that's exciting. Let's
talk about something else, because we could get really deep
into the poop talking coop in the pool talking.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
All right, I want to talk about Lexi's book before
we really dive into it. Lexi, can you introduce your
book for us and give a little quick summary for
our listeners.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I can.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
I have it right here. So it's called Shoot Your Shot.
It's a hockey rom com and Jalen is a struggling
NHL player who shares an anonymous night of fun with
local artists Lucy, and suddenly his game really experiences a change,
and he is delusional enough to believe that his improving
game is because of her, but he has to convince
(24:56):
her to be as good luck charm for the season,
and a good luck does not come.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Cheap, so that Madison knows too well what good luck
charms can do for her career, right, baby, exactly, no comment,
no comment. It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
So when I first started reading your book, I thought
this was actually you and your husband's love story. And
I got to like chapter fifteen, I was like, Babe,
this is raunchy.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
That is, kids have read this. Do you think this
is true?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
And then I googled it and then there was the
clarifying information that it wasn't that.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
But I love that.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
I think that I take that as a compliment that
my writing was very believable.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
It was very convincing.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
But so, hockey is a really popular sub genre in
the romance world for some reason, which feels kind of
wild to me.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Why do you think that is or is there a
reason for that?
Speaker 5 (25:54):
So I'm like you, I really didn't know too much
about it until a couple years ago that how big
and popular hockey romance is and it's a whole world.
It's really wildly popular, and there's other sports too, but
for whatever reason, hockey it's like a little bit more accessible,
Like it's believable, it's a little bit believable. These guys
(26:18):
maybe are a little bit more approachable. They're not, you know,
like celebrities in a sense, like maybe they're a little
bit more down to earth. And then also, I just
love hockey, and I understand why others would find it
fun and sexy. Like it's very rough, it's very it's
a challenging sport. There's fighting, and you know, players are
(26:40):
kind of quirky and weird too a little bit, like
so I get the appeal for sure, But yeah, it
is a wild, giant world.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I very much understand the lore, and I think we
all played hockey right. But like, I am attracted to
my wife obviously, but like have always dated athletes in
that we're welcome in that world because I'm a hockey player,
Like I felt like it was always hockey players. And
I'm a pretty small gal. And when I put my
gear on, I feel like I look big, Like I
look like, you know, kind of scary. I look kind
(27:10):
of like, you know, taller all these things. And I
take my gear off and it's always that moment where
someone's like, oh my god, you're actually like cute and
tiny and whatever, and like I kind of get that
in the men's space right, like like these men are
wearing this like big like knight in Shining armor, like
they're fully covered, and then they take that all off
and they're like shredded and super cute and usually homegrown
(27:31):
like usually like from the sticks, like usually weird as hell,
Like hockey players are kind of weird. I think there's like, yeah,
there's like a kink in.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
That, yes, for sure.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
And again it's like that believability, like he's not trying
to be like some tough mob or a cool celebrity,
Like he's just like some guy that you would fall
in love with.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah, he's got like a helmet on, Like what is Yeah,
so you.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Have a pH d in education and you've written a
hockey romance novel. Have you always wanted to write a book?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Been a writer? Like? How is how the writing? And
why the book?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I was a creative writing major in college, so that's
an interesting cool yeah jump to me.
Speaker 5 (28:11):
Yeah, writing has always been a part of my life.
My undergrad stuff is in like media studies and public relations.
I've always loved social media, so like in a way
that's still storytelling and you know, create creativity, creative storytelling,
and I've always so getting a PhD was always a goal.
Writing a book was always a goal. I just never
really knew what I was going to write. As I,
(28:33):
you know, was reading all these hockey romances, I was like, oh,
I could totally do this, and I could you know,
write the hockey in a way that's realistic and I
could kind of share, you know, some of the behind
the scenes some of the realism that I've experienced throughout,
you know, following JT's career around when.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
You realized you wanted to write a book, it was like,
that's what you knew you wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Was that specifically?
Speaker 5 (28:55):
Yeah? I had, and I had been like, you know,
writing just for fun, trying to like get some thing
to work. And then yeah, it just really kind of
clicked as I was reading these and I'm like, gosh,
I talk all the time about hockey, like it would
it just made sense and I'm glad I did. Like
it just came kind of really pouring out, and I've said,
like it really helped connect me back to the game too,
(29:16):
And you know, I was such a fan. And then
sometimes when your significant other plays like you maybe hate
the sport a little bit, like it becomes such a
business that you're likeugh, I'm just over it, And so
writing this was a fun way to connect back to
being a fan of it too.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
How much of that connection or front row seat that
you had to hockey and pro hockey in that way
infused into the book or poured into the book. Do
you feel like it had a big hand on kind
of the way that this story was told.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
Yeah, I definitely like wanted to make sure that it
was very fictional and nobody would like try to say, oh,
this is obviously about this person or this is about
this person. But I think if you read it, like
even just all the hockey players I wrote about, like
you look on any team and you'd find those guys
like the friends I did, the yeah, the vet guy,
the young guy, you know, the Russian kid, Like, there's
(30:05):
all those the players are all there, and there's some
of the little funny stories that I've heard over the years,
and some of the dynamic with the other wives in
the book, like that stuff that I've learned too. So
definitely like trying to find this balance of making sure
it's not actually somebody, making sure it's interesting, and making
sure it's realistic.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Well, I thought the wags in the book are kind
of are kind of brutal, and I mean, I get it.
I've been a wag. I can see those stereotypes and
also like personalities as well. How did you then get
received back into that community? Where was anyone offended? Like
did you create like a little stir there or was
it all like in good fun. Supportive of the of
(30:44):
the book.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
I think like for the most part, there needs to
be some tension and some drama in it, and obviously
using the wags is like an easy way to do that.
And I think that, like it's truth, Like any girl
who's been in that like situation will tell you, like
there's gonna be a little bit of drama. Like you
are trying to throw together fifteen twenty women who the
only thing you have in common is that your husbands
(31:06):
are on the same team. Like that's an insane friend
group to just like throw together. So you're going to
meet people who will be your friends for life, and
then you'll meet people who you maybe don't ever want
to talk to again after that situation. And I think
that's fine. And so with the book, I wanted to
like show a little bit of that but then ultimately,
like at the end, they're still nice and everybody still
(31:28):
kind of comes together to be like, you know, we
are still a team and we're not going to be
totally rude or exclude you.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I also want to talk about in your book the diversity.
So for context, Jalen is the male who becomes the
boyfriend husband. He's black, lucy bisexual, white female, and they
meet and end up falling in love, which is why
when I first started reading the book, I was like, Oh,
this is their story, Like everything about it made sense.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
It's not your story. But all those things are in
with intention.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
So can you talk a little bit as to why
that is, because I think that that's super important.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
I like write, you know, the world that I see
in the world that I live in. And and also
the book is set in Seattle, and Seattle is like
a wonderful queer community and a very accepting environment. And
it is fiction, so I'm not going to write, you know,
a super realistic you know, because sometimes the hockey world
(32:29):
and players and sometimes they can be dicks and homophobic
and horrible people Like that is just a truth. And
so with my book, I was balancing the realism, but
also like, I'm not going to write about that. This
is going to be my world and in it everybody
is accepting, and it's going to be a story that's
diverse and shares different perspectives. A lot of the hockey
(32:50):
romances that I read it's straight, it's white, it's so
how can I really reflect the world that I live
in and have more of a diverse book.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
It's super interesting and important to call out the LGBTQ
plus aspect of the story, and like men's hockey just
gets a super shitty rap. And I think that what
most people don't realize is most guys are really good guys, right,
and they show up how they do pride, they and
they do all these things.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
So again, why is that important? And why do you
think that there is such like a pushback there? Right?
Like why is it's such a hot topic button situation.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Yeah, I think that hockey itself, like men's hockey itself,
it's such like this conforming sport, like even from a
young age, like they're just taught that it's team above
anything everything and not even just like the issues that
you speak out about, but like how you look, what
you dress, what you wear, like all of that stuff
(33:52):
is so scrutinized. If you look at youth sports, like
they all have the same haircut, they're all wearing the
same thing, like it's so uniform, and that reinforcement even
in the NHL, of like this is a team sport.
Don't do anything that's going to distract from the team.
And so I think it can be hard for players,
even players who want to say stuff, Like I know
that there are NHL players who want to say stuff
(34:15):
and be more active, and it's just they don't know how.
And I don't know, maybe the league needs to make
more opportunities for them to be able to instead of
like taking away the opportunities, Like maybe there needs to
be more opportunities for players to do stuff. But yeah,
I mean the characters that I wrote would totally be
those guys who would be taping their sticks and wearing
(34:36):
the specialty jerseys and showing up to those things.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
A thousand percent. And I think the part that I
like having the book kind of have this humongous scene
at a Pride game is so intentional and you know,
I'll peel it back to a layer of like a
past life of mine. But at one point, I was
the general manager of the Riveters, and in that world,
we had two very foundational games we had, you know,
(35:01):
and we had lots of them, right, like those specialty
games are really important, But we had our Pride Night
and at that point, it was right after the NHL
stopped doing Pride jerseys, So it was like a very
kind of like apex time of like are we going
to put the Pride jerseys on? Or are we going
to start conforming? I don't know, there's a lot of
gay people in women's hockey, so we were like no,
(35:21):
But that was a really foundational moment. Why did you
choose so intentionally to interwork that Pride game?
Speaker 5 (35:27):
Yeah, I mean I was really pissed when the NHL
took away, you know, not having the jerseys and took
away all the specialty night stuff. And so for me,
the Pride game was always my favorite game, Like, I
want to go to that game. It's such a celebration
and the crowd is always so great, and so I
wanted to write like this is the perspective from the
(35:48):
stands and how much fun it is and how much
it means to people, and how it's just a game
you know, but it's that bridge for some people of like, hey,
you're welcome here, you're accepted here, this is a safe space.
We're celebrating it here, and so right I wanted to share,
like what that feels like for queer people to experience
from the stands.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
One thing that really stood out to me is the
way that you infused real social issues in the book.
There's a very specific reference multiple times to Jalen's friend Cam,
who lost his life to an overdose, and you constantly
come in and out of that story and why it's
important in Jalen's life, and it's something that's really big
right now in society. Our family has been affected by
(36:29):
the opioid crisis unfortunately more than once, and it sucks,
but it's super important to talk about and so I
applaud you for that, But also why that character and
why is it important that we share these stories within
stories to continue to educate people.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
It was more just I know how big of an
issue it is. My book is sent in Seattle, so
I wanted to tie something to the community where it's like, Okay,
something bad happened, but how can Jalen reach out to
his community too. It's also like I would love to
see hockey players NHL hockey players do this sort of
thing too, like to reach out to their communities and
they don't have to start their own foundations, but things
(37:06):
that you are passionate about or that you have been
touched with in your life, like you can just send
an email to or even just to your team, but
to reach out to your community and to find ways
where you can help out. And the way you know,
Jalen remembers his friend is not his friend being a
drug addict, but like being a really good person, and
the way he like celebrates him towards the end of
the book is celebrating that side.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Of his friend who he lost.
Speaker 5 (37:30):
It also kind of showed this difference in life path
between Jalen and his friend, and that kind of like
really made his guilt worse. His friends start off at
the same place, but he makes it to the NHL
and his friend doesn't, and he's struggling with that guilt
and doesn't know how to show up for his friend
or for the family, And Jalen really has to try
(37:52):
has to do a lot of like internal work and
grieving and coming to terms with that loss and then
how he can turn that into something that honors his friend.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
I thank you for adding that into the book. And
I think a big part of us bringing that up
is just to say thank you. It means a lot
and meant a lot to us to read it and
see it so on a different lens. What has been
the response to the book? How is the hockey community
responding to you putting the book out? What's the vibes?
Speaker 5 (38:17):
I I mean, people have been so kind to me
and so supportive. I know people were really excited about
this and wanting to have something where like the hockey
is going to be accurate and they're not going to
like cause I have like real hockey fans who you know,
were ready and waiting for this book. And so to
hear them say that the hockey is accurate, and to
(38:39):
hear that they've laughed at it like that, and to
hear that, you know, it's like touched emotionally too, Like
those were the real things that I was hoping for.
I was hoping the hockey was going to be accurate,
and I was hoping you were going to get a laugh,
and I was hoping that there would be like some moments,
some emotional moments too, where you can like really connect
to the players and so I, yeah, everybody's been really
(39:01):
kind and really supportive, and we had some events here
in Seattle, and it was really nice connecting with people
in real life too.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
So next book is there a next book? Is it
a series? I loved this book. Honestly, I'm going to
read it again.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Everyone you'll get through this. It was really good. The
way you write, you're like in the scene, it is
so good. You are a phenomenal writer.
Speaker 5 (39:22):
Thank you you see story.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I loved it.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I read it in three days, which is saying a
lot for me because I think you enrolled and never attended.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
So yeah, she had that's funny.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I took a lot of directed studies.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
Yeah, I have a second book coming out. It'll come
out next May, so in about a year. And the
idea is that it's the same universe, so you'll get
some character overlap and some like team overlap, some like
easter eggs that you'll see. But it's going to be
a new story with new characters. And I can tell
(40:01):
you it's gonna be set in Minnesota, which is like
fun because Seattle it was like, you know, the characters
didn't really know hockey. She didn't really know hockey. She
like everybody was like being really introduced to it. But
we're going to Minnesota, where everybody knows their hockey, and
so the main female character, she's she knows her stuff.
(40:23):
Really it's a little bit different that way. Yeah, And
I say, like, if if shoot your shot has to
do with like superstition and luck, then like the next
book it's about getting revenge and hockey nepotism.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Oh, I love it.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
My Scorpio Rising is like gonna love this book. Okay, Well,
every episode we end on this kind of place of advice.
We stick with parenting advice. You have two babies, We're
gonna kind of stay in that lane. We always say,
what is the best advice you never received or wish
you had received or have received. And I want to
(40:57):
kind of go down the route of parenting, but also
you've done so many exceptional things as a parent but
also for yourself, and I think that that advice is
always so hard to grasp, and like how to continue
to be Anya when you're also Whylan and Harlan's mom,
and how to continue to be Lexi when you're JT's wife.
A mom like all these things. So what's your best
(41:18):
advice on how to do that as well as you.
Speaker 5 (41:21):
Have Okay, I have really practical advice. It's not going
to be moving or touching. It's not going to be
like a beautiful quote. The way I survived is whatever
city my husband was playing in, I got a gym membership,
whether it was the YMCA or like a fancy gym.
I found a gym that had childcare, and I took
(41:43):
me and the kids and we would go to the
gym and some days I would walk on the treadmill
and watch Netflix. Some days I would do a good workout,
and some days I would just sit there, literally just
sit there while my kids were being taken care of
for like two hours. That is my biggest mom hack
in the world is do that. It's such good childcare
(42:05):
and you're just like, you're you have to stay there.
But that's my big mom hack to get.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Leave the gym. Don't leave them, don't leave the jim.
Speaker 5 (42:14):
They will, yeah, they will call the authorities if you
just dump your kids with them, but they'll watch your
kids for two hours. You don't have to work out,
you can shower, you.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Can even just take a shower.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
That is Actually we've never sign a contrast, but you're right.
Mattie's old teammate, her wife runs a child care facility
there and you can drop the kids off for two
and a half hours. And she's like, guys, why don't
you join a lifetime and do that because it's free.
You're a member of the gym, right, But like it's free.
It's these kids get to go play in like a
gym setting. They get to go tire themselves out, and
(42:46):
then they come home and they veg. That's amazing advice.
It doesn't always have to be so beautiful. I feel
like the best advice we get is the advice that's like,
take a nap, Like I'm yeah, I never thought about that.
That's anything to relax. Yeah, I love it. Well, thank
you so much for joining us. Thank you talking about
your book opening up kind of exploring some of the
(43:06):
nuances of what hockey is and what we wish it was.
I think aspirationally, we all really want it to be better,
and I can feel that from your energy, from what
you put into the world from your book, So thank you.
I always say hockey culture needs to be changed culture
or will never survive. So thank you very much for
everything you're doing. We are so excited for the next book,
(43:29):
and thank you for joining us on These Pets Puffs.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Thank you so much for having.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Me, and that's all we have today. Thank you for listening.
I'm Aya Packer and I'm Madison Packer and this is
These Packs Puck. These Packs Puck is a production of
Iheartwomen's Sports in Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
It's hosted by us Madison and Onya Packer.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Emily Meronov is our awesome senior producer and story editor.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
We were mixed and mastered by Mary Doo.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Our executive producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz, and Ali Perry.
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