December 10, 2024 • 42 mins
To fans, three-time Olympian Natalie Spooner seamlessly transitioned back to the ice after giving birth, even earning honors as the 2024 PWHL Most Valuable Player and Forward of the Year. But in reality, there was a lot more going on behind the scenes. In this candid conversation, Natalie opens up to Madison and Anya about the challenges she faced — both on and off the ice — during her pre- and post-partum journey. She reveals how the lack of education around the postpartum experience impacted her and what information could have made a significant difference. Madison and Anya also dive into the reasons behind Natalie’s offensively low draft pick last year and what her remarkable comeback means to them as mothers.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer. I'm a recently retired pro
hockey vet. I was a founding member of the National
Women's Hockey League, a pillar in the PHF, and an
inaugural member of the PWHL Sirens.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Anya Packer, also a former pro hockey player
and now a full Madison Packer.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Stan Sanya and I met through hockey and now we're
married and moms. So two awesome toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And this is these packed puck where we talk about
everything for professional women's athletes, to sports, to raising children
and all the messiness in between. Hello, Maddie, how you
doing good?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
So here's your hot take for the day.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Let a fly hockey hot take.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Natalie Spooner was drafted offensively low, offensively low, and I
think some of it probably, although we're not supposed to
say it and no one will acknowledge it. Right was
the uncertainty behind her return after giving birth to her
son Rory, but wildly low for a three time Olympian
(01:06):
who then went on to throw it back in everyone's
face right and finish as the league MVP, but fourth
round Natalie Spooner, Come on.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
No, And the worst part was, like the fourth round
is when they stopped the big broadcast, So you almost
wonder if they would have even chosen her further down
the whole entire draft, but they wanted to make sure
she got the broadcast, the commentary and all of that,
because remember they made the swap, So I feel like
had that not been a caveat as well, they would
(01:36):
have even further underrated her, Which is the craziest thing
I've ever heard.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Which I guess is everyone's right, right, I mean, like
that's the risk and sports, you see it happen all
the time. You have a player who has been so
dominant at every level and she has exceeded expectations and
she has outperformed and overperformed, and like you just have
to know that that's just going to motivate and fuel
the even more, right, I Mean, she's an athlete, she's
(02:02):
a mom. She's coming back into this environment where I
have to imagine that that was a big chip on
her shoulder.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
That plus couple that all together with this is a
player that's already not made a national team, not made
an Olympic roster, killed herself to redefine herself as an
athlete on the ice and then make and cement her
spot on that team. I mean, this isn't the kind
of player that you really want to like bet against
in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, I mean, it just was so interesting to watch
it play out. And there's a lot that goes into
the draft, right, I mean there was also you know,
player circumstances and so like we don't really know all
of it and like the reasoning behind all of it.
But I just think that a player with Natalie Spooner's
pedigree and resume should have gone higher in the draft.
And I'm I guess good for Toronto right that they
(02:49):
were able to get her in the fourth round, But
like it just seems wild to me because I think
that she was as proven when she finished League MVP.
I mean, she's one of the best players in the
world right.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Now, one hundred percent. But also, this is why we
talk about the things we talk about because as moms,
there is the stigma, there is the question mark you
are not less of an athlete because your body went
through a transformation, and it's such a male dominated space
that that is the question mark. And how crazy when
you've already watched her, but five months later get on
(03:22):
the ice with the Olympic team at Worlds to even
ask the question, like, what are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I think the thing for me that like riles me
up so much about it is it's it's sports is
a business, right, So like we are in the business
of doing business with our bodies being our vehicle to
make money, right, and so when you get injured, inevitably
that lowers your stock and you may or may not
get a bigger contract, smaller contract. Like we've all been there,
(03:51):
we all understand what that's like. You lose spots on
teams because of injury, and in theory like pregnancy, coming
back from that is similar. But for some reason, yeah,
but for some reason to me, like it just feels
different because we're talking about a mom, right, We're not
talking about like a broken arm or a dislocated shoulder.
It just bothers me more. I guess that that doubt
(04:12):
was there in the same way, even though from a
business standpoint, I guess it makes sense. But I was
just like I just remember watching her all season long
being so pumped and she was playing against me, like
there were moments where I definitely should not have been,
but like it was just like for moms everywhere, like
look at you go, girl, I mean seriously, like it was.
It was just so cool to see. And so yeah,
(04:33):
that's my hot take is that that was a steal
for Toronto and Natalie Spooner is one of the best
players in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Full Stott double down, totally agree all the flowers to
that hot take. I fully could not agree with you anymore. Also,
when we talk to her, which we do later in
this episode, the stories that she tells, the pathway that
she got to and through pregnancy to postpartum, to playing
on the Olympic team to taking time off the ice,
(04:59):
like all of these unknowns about her game make it
that much more insane and impressive. I cannot wait until
we dive into it.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, popped, it's gonna be a great conversation. All right, cool,
So check in.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Where are we at today?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
How we feeling?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I feel amazing. I feel like every time we record,
I'm in like my greatest headspace ever. But I just
had that whole hockey hot take. I'm riled up now.
I want to talk about women things. I love moms, women,
are the best. Hockey's insane and like I'm excited to
jump in.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I'm feeling pretty good too, so maybe it'll do something
fun with the kids later. I'm like eighty two ish
lifetime prs on everything in the gym today. Came home.
You set up a little zenden for me.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I did set up a Zenden. Did you like it?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Dae? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
You know what, when you don't sleep well and the
kids are crazy and it's just like everything's going on
at once, it really feels like crap. And then I know,
you go to the gym, which is like even more
strenuous than me, just like staring at three screens. And
so you come home and I think, if they there's
a candlelit, if the boots are out, if you've got
to like a meditation on the TV, then maybe you'll
(06:06):
pick the kids up from school. I could chill ax
like it'd all be a good vibe.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, everyone deserves a zen done in their home, which
is basically just a space where you can go and
it's peaceful, it's quiet, like for me it's the guest
room or my lego room down in the basement, and
any'll light a candle sometimes I'll watch TV. Today we
put on a little meditation. I had this like I
massage your thing on. It was fantastic, my little happy,
(06:33):
safe space.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I think that's the part that people don't recognize with
like athlete moms, is you have to do those things.
That's part of like if I'm on a meeting, that's
your meeting. Like you go to the gym, you come home,
and you have to have that space. But like theoretically
it doesn't make any sense because it's resting. But resting
is so much a part of your job that as
(06:56):
an athlete in a mom, I'm always like she has
to rest, almost to the point where you'll start doing
other things and I'm like, pencils down, go recover your body.
Your whoop is like full screaming at you, and you don't.
That's the rest that you need and you don't take it.
But that's the mom guilt.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
And I think interestingly enough, our next guest is a
great person to talk to about this because she understands
better than anyone, maybe even including myself, what it's like
to balance all of it, because she's currently doing that
right now. She is a absolute powerhouse for the Toronto Scepters,
who were ranked first in the league last season, even
(07:35):
though Minnesota went on to win the championship. She is
a three time Olympic medalist, two golds and a silver
with the Canadian national team. She is a rivaled Ohio
State Buckeye and a new mom. She gave birth to
her son, Rory in twenty twenty two, and perhaps the
most insane part of her resume, she resumed training four
weeks later. Insane and I think she skated until thirty
(08:00):
six weeks, which she'll clarify when we chat with her.
But we're super excited. Buckle up for a good chat
with Natalie Spooner.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
We'll be back with Natalie right after the break.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Natalie, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So you and I have kind of known each other,
like quasi known each other for a long time. I
think I played against you growing up, and then we
played against each other at you eighteens, and then you
were at Ohio State for three of the four years
that I was at Wisconsin, so we played against each
other a lot. What kind of led into your decision
to kick things off to go to Ohio State?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Of all places, you're gonna die laughing at this. So actually, like,
growing up my whole life, I thought I was going
to play at Wisconsin. My older brother played at Wisconsin,
and so like I grew up having like Little Bucky
the Badger Dolls and a Barbie cheerleader from Wisconsin and
like all these things. And then it was time to choose.
Someone was like, well, let's just go visit another big
(09:02):
school that's a little bit closer to home. And then
I went to Ohiose State and I fell in love
with it, and that was kind of history from there.
I eventually went back on my official and I really
liked it still, so I committed to Ohio State.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
You guys were a powerhouse then, and the school's only
gotten better. I mean the last couple of years they've
won some championships. Like it's an unreal program.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, I mean we weren't great when I was there.
I would say we kind of turned the tides a little,
but now they're so good.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
You know, you grow up playing hockey in Canada, you
come to the US, you kind of see both cultures
of hockey, whether that's fandom, whether that's like how much
people like the care factor of hockey. You know, what
do you make of it? What's your kind of like
senses you experience both sides of the border.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
So I grew up obviously in Canada, and I played
girls hockey from the time I was five. I played
like one year of boys before that, and like just
to see the girls hockey grow here, like there's so
many more options now, Like I think when I was playing,
like when I first started, it was like three different
age groups together on a girls team, where it's like
now there's like each age group and there's like multiple
(10:04):
levels of each age group, which is amazing to just
see like girls hockey take off like that. And then
obviously getting to go to the States for university, like
I always think like it was like I went into
a movie like what you would see on TV, like
when you picture these like you know universities that are
on TV, and the parties and the sports, like it
was so much bigger than I thought, Like just the
(10:25):
support around the sports, Like the fans are such die
hard like Buckeye fans, So I think it was just
amazing to be able to have that experience and to
see all the support that gets behind the athletes and
to make sure you're successful with whatever you need throughout
your career while you're there.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
That's awesome. So you know, the movie of college exists
and then you go play in three Olympics like I'm
sorry that movie, Like what is that movie?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Like that?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Because that's the whole different level. But it's also a
whole different dream.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah. I mean, I didn't know if it was going
to be like a dream that was going to come
true for me. I'm in twenty ten. I remember exactly
where I was on my college campus, like at Ohio State,
getting called saying I wasn't going to be centralized to
have the chance to make the team. And then after
university it was kind of like, Okay, well I'll play
another year, see if I make it, and if not,
like maybe I'll get a regular job and become a
(11:15):
regular person. Luckily, I went into the twenty fourteen kind
of centralization and ended up making the team and then
kind of just tried to keep getting better every year
since then, and luckily it's been working out and been
able to, you know, help make an impact on that team,
and it's I mean, it's been a dream come true.
Every Olympics is so different but each experience I feel
like you can grow from and learn something and just
(11:38):
take it all in. And they've all been so different
but so enjoyable at the same time.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I'm not going to let you bury the lead here.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Spooner was the league MVP last season, So a little
bit better every year is a humble way to say
she's killing it. You also like there was a rise
to kind of fame through this trajectory of the Olympics,
right when we start out looking at where women's hockey
was and now the eyes and the exposure on it.
But you couple that with you're a Canadian hockey player
and you were on the amazing race, Like what was
that like kind of coming back from the Olympics, and
(12:07):
it just seems kind of like when you guys come back,
like things completely take over and transform, And so how
has that experience been?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Yeah, it's pretty cool, I think Obviously I had no
clue what to expect after the twenty fourteen Olympics. I
just kind of came back and I was like sweet,
like I have a go metal and get to share
with my family, like you don't really know what you're doing.
But actually, through centralization, we had got like this email
and it was like mostly for retired hockey players and
if anyone wants to apply for the amazing race, And
like I loved watching the show that I was like,
(12:36):
I like went to my teammate, I was like, do
you want to apply to this? Like I mean saying
like you got to be like retired maybe, but you know,
maybe we could just like throw in an application and
see And we ended up getting like the callback that
we had to go for like our meetings, like actually
like during centralization, and then we found out actually right
after the Olympics that we were going to be on
the show. And then at that point we were like,
oh my goodness, like what did we get ourselves into?
(12:56):
Like is this even a good idea right now? Like
we just came off this Olympic, like Megan had broken
her hand, Like we were like what are we doing?
But we just went for it and it was a blast.
It was so cool to get to travel around and
do things like I would have never I will never
skydive again. I have SKUYI do it again, Like just
things like that that I'm like I wouldn't normally do
in my life, but you're kind of forced to do
(13:18):
in a sense, but we're so competitive that you just
do it. Yeah, it was a really cool experience and
one that I'll remember for a long time.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
That's awesome. So to your question pack, which I loved, like,
was there an Olympics post Olympic tour that you felt
the real shift? Do you feel that shift when you
I mean, I'm sure when you go places in like
the Hockey world, you're Natalie Spooner, like everyone's looking at you,
everyone knows who you are. But have you started to
feel that shift in your real life towards the fame,
towards the you know what have you? Or is there
(13:46):
specific games afterwards or after the race that you felt like,
oh okay, like we're starting to get somewhere, like we're
cooking now.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah. No, I feel like there's definitely been a shift.
I think obviously back you know, when we had the
seat of HWL, like it was is always like people
watched us at the Olympics and then kind of forgot
about us during the season. And I think with the
Peter HL now like all of that's been revamped and
people can watch us, especially watching us on TV, I
think has helped a lot to get our names back
(14:14):
out there and people kind of be like, wow, Okay,
they do play all these other times, and you know,
I recognize her from the Olympics, and now she's playing here.
Let's watch and let's follow. So I think we're getting
more of a following now that we're so much on TV,
way more and more accessible to so many people.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
So that's the part that is always so interesting, is
like how things evolve, especially in sport, and especially watching
you and I think you know the biggest piece of
your story and all of us as mom's stories, like
the moment we became a mom, but take us like
right before that moment, how did you know you wanted
to be a mom in the middle of your hockey career.
Was it like marriage momming and I'm going to be
a hockey player regardless of the timeline? Kind of where
(14:54):
did you fall in the idea of creating your family
going from Natalie to mom.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
I think I always knew I wanted to be a mom.
It was just kind of a matter of time. And
like now, my husband always jokes like we're on the
Olympic cycle, not the mentional cycle, and so we kind
of knew, like okay after that Olympics, like we wanted
to try to start a family, but obviously it's not
that easy and it's got to work out and everything's
got to go to plan. And luckily for us, it
(15:22):
worked out kind of exactly to plan. We were able
to get pregnant right away, and like, in a sense,
I had an easy pregnancy. We had a lot at
the beginning that a lot of genetic testing stuff that
wasn't going well. So we had about probably like from
twelve weeks to like sixteen weeks that were very unknown,
like if the pregnancy was going to be sustainable and
what was going to happen. But then from the point
(15:44):
of him being healthy, it was quite a good pregnancy
that I was able to kind of keep skating and
keep training and just kind of stay pretty normal, I
would say, through my pregnancy. And then I kind of
knew with the timeline that we'd been given, like would
I have time to get back for old Like I
kne it would be a time crunch, but I kind
of thought, Okay, if all goes smooth, there's a chance
(16:04):
that could happen.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I mean, that's crazy, Like I don't think most people
realize how hard it is to compete at this level,
especially now that all of the best of the best
are playing against each other every day. Right then you
couple that with your growing a human being, you burst
the human being, and then you come back and you
perform the best at the highest of levels. I mean,
that's incredible. At any point, have you stopped to consider
(16:27):
like the true remarkability in what you did last season.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
I think it's hard to just kind of think about
because it was so busy, But during some conversations with
friends and family, like they're like, it's pretty amazing that
you just proved you can be a mom and also
be an MVP, And I was like, oh, I guess
I never like thought of it like that in a sense,
like you can still be a mom, but you can
be like the top and the best at that time.
(16:50):
And like I'd be talking to people who are carpenters
or you know, in like very male dominated fields and
they'd be like, this is inspiring, because yeah, people second
guess me and doubt me all the time, and like
people didn't think you would be, you know, as good
as you were before, and all of a sudden, you
just proved them all wrong. And like they're like, we
can take that into our daily lives too, of like
(17:13):
going into a male dominated area and people being like, no,
you're not gonna be able to do this job, or
do you know how to do this job, and then
be like, yes, I know how to do this job.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I mean it was motivating honestly to me, like like
I watched what my wife went through and in the
difficulties in coming back, et cetera. But like I remember,
obviously it's weird because we're competitors and we play against
each other, But I remember watching your game sometime and
being like, hell yeah, because you're just out there doing
it and you were underrated in that draft. You should
not have been drafted in the fifth round, Like the
(17:42):
fact that you weren't in the top fourth round I
was offended by, Like you should have gone in the
top two rounds. And I remember thinking to myself, I
wonder if it's because like there's uncertainty of how she
comes back, and Anya and I literally talked about it
like surrounding the draft. Everything was going on, me being
like I hope she just kills it, Like I hope
she comes back and throws it in everyone's face. For
moms everywhere, and then you did and it was truly,
(18:04):
truly incredible. So I just I had to tell you
that because I'm genuinely amazed at how well you performed
last season and just every year you raise the bar,
but having come back from having a kid and then
to play as well as you did and do all
the things the way you do them, it's good for
the league, it's good for my team and the game
and everything. But it's just awesome.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
You know, we watched Alison Felix years ago become a
mom and then have like brands and partners be like,
I can't invest in you, I don't trust you, and
I watched a lot of what you did, and brands
really leaned in, like kind of give us the business
of being a mom in hockey, because there probably is
some people that walked away or didn't want to work
with you, or lessened investment because of that unknown or
(18:43):
if that never happened. Tell us what was it like
to make the business decision like the business of Natalie
Spooner to become a mom.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I think obviously, like I have some amazing partners and
been able to get my brand. I guess to a
point where I had just partners that were willing to
stick with me, and I made it pretty clear early
on that I was coming back. There was like always
the questions like, Okay, is this she done? Is she retiring,
she's starting a family, But I made it pretty clear that,
like no, I was coming back to play hockey. So
(19:11):
luckily they stuck with me, and a lot of them
even kind of joined me and being able to tell
my story. Adidas did like an amazing spot about kind
of my comeback to if I was going to make
the worlds or not, truted one where I had Worri
out on the ice for the first time. So there's
been like some amazing moments actually, like with my partners,
and I think in a sense like it's helping them
(19:33):
too as much as their support is helping me get
to where I want to be. For them, like women
make decisions in a lot of households, so for them
to go out to all the ladies and to be
able to show them that you know, this is possible,
you can be strong, you can be a mom, I
think it's only empowering and I think it was great
business for them to be able to support me, but
(19:55):
also tell my story the.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Expense of being a female athlete. When you look at
it all right, look at it in a vacuum without partners,
the reality is it doesn't happen. You just can't do
it right. There's daycare, there's there's the kids always need
the closure, the cutest, the food, that like, all the
things right, and so it's like where that fits is
that middle ground of like making it possible and like, yes,
(20:18):
the salaries are getting there, Yes the things are getting there,
the viewership is getting there, but there's still that stop gap.
And so watching Partners kind of melt away from the
shame of pregnancy and the shame of momdom through your
story and then to Madison's point, like becoming the pinnacle
of it all is honestly amazing, but it's not always
(20:39):
that pretty, right, So, like, tell us, did you have
that that kind of postpartum lag where you're like, Okay,
I might be gaining all the things, but I'm not.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
There looking back now, it was hard, I think in
the moment, like I didn't know any different. It was
my first pregnancy, and if it wouldn't have been my
first pregnancy, I would probably have done a lot of
things differently. I guess a story I haven't really shared
that much because there hasn't really been like the right
space to share it. Where I was like, people will
(21:07):
not understand this is okay, like this is the very
mom thing. But like you know, like when you're pregnant
and you kind of get like the pain down in
your pubic bone and people are like lightning crotch.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
You just have lightning crotch.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
So I was having very severe cases of that where
I was like okay, and I would skate and I'd
be like out of commission from workouts for like two days,
and I was like what is going on, Like this
is crazy, and they're like all the moms, I mean,
don't worry, you know, you just got It's just it's
gonna be okay. So then I stopped skating at thirty
six weeks I want to say thirty fourth thirty anyways,
(21:41):
pretty like late, which I probably would have stopped earlier
had I known what I was doing to my body
that postpartum. I felt fine the first month, like obviously
the first month is hard. We had thresh problems, we
had jaundice problems, like we just you just deal. And
then at a month, I decided, Okay, let's just like
I do out on the ice and just kind of
(22:01):
feel start you know, skating a bit, start working out again,
like I'm by skating, like it was like public skating
at first, and I was still getting this pain and
I was like okay, and then I was like, but
it's kind of manageable, like I because I wasn't going
too hard. And then when I knew I wanted to
make World Championships at five months, I really started to
ramp things up. And that's when I started to get
(22:24):
really bad. And I was like, oh, like don't know
exactly what this is, but obviously like something is very
inflamed in there and unhappy, and to be honest, like
three World Championships, like I don't know how I was
opening my legs or taking a stride when I look back,
like I had like all the sage rub, all the
hot rub, like everything just numbing pretty much. Problem was
(22:45):
I was also breastfeeding, so I couldn't any pain killers
or anything for it. So I was trying just to
like make it better World champions with a different animal too,
because then I lost my milk. I had to get
my milk back and it was like a balancing act
of like trying to have my there, like feeding Rory,
and it was like it was just a whole other thing. Anyways,
coming back from Worlds, I finally got an MRI and
(23:07):
like got my pubic bone looked at, and I had
a pretty bad case of ostiitis pubis, which I guess
is very common in hockey players and also pregnant ladies.
So I was pretty much like the perfect candidate for this.
So I actually didn't skate for six months after World Championships,
So like coming into last season, I didn't skate the
whole summer, Like I didn't skate at September camp and
(23:29):
I played one game in Utica for like five minutes
just to see how it felt in like our preseason whatever,
because like I hadn't been skating or playing, like I
had to like skate one day and then rest for
two days, like I had to really slowly get back
into it. So they weren't even sure if I was
going to be like ready for the beginning of season
because I was still battling this. And then so even
at Worlds, like I didn't practice at all. I just
(23:50):
played the games because I couldn't like I couldn't practice
and like keep aggravating it. And so the same kind
of was like at the beginning of the season, like
I would only be able to skate like two days
in a row at first, Like I wouldn't practice every
time with Toronto, I would take a practice off every
so often. I end up getting like a Cortizon shot
and making the world a difference. But like eventually I
(24:10):
got better by the end of the season, actually, like
I started to feel pretty good. But yeah, like I
was battling that for a while. So like that's something
that like, looking back on, I'm like, I wish I
would have known that this was like something that could
happen in pregnancies or just happened in general, because I
had no clue. I just thought it was just a
normal pregnancy symptom.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
But yeah, that was.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Something that was crazy. I just threw that all out there.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
But I love that though.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
We'll be back with Natalie right after the.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Break here everyone, And like we always talk about this
on this podcast, is like the reality and what's like
actually happening is it's never. It's never what we all
think it is, right, So the reality from our point
of view, like you know, you're looking at it as
(24:58):
like a mom who's played, who's watching you do all
the things? You get six points at Worlds. I think
that year it was like, you know, no tiny showing
and to hear all of this and know that you
kind of shouldered that burden by yourself. You know, you're
not telling anybody, You're going through it by yourself, and
like everybody is just watching you completely dominate. And so
like the stark difference in reality of what that looks
(25:19):
like is that is crazy?
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
So who do you lean on in those moments? Is
it your husband? Is it your mom? Like who do
you call? What's what's your confident on? Where do you
find some kind of peace?
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Definitely my husband is a huge support. My mom pretty
much like moved in with us, Like my mom came
to Worlds, was in the hotel room with Rory because
my husband still obviously had to work some of the times,
so she would come out early and pretty much have
Rory the whole time, and like when I'd pump between periods,
like someone would run the milk up to her like
for him. But yeah, like last season with Toronto, it
(25:51):
is definitely a juggling max. Because of my husband's work,
we live about two and a half hours outside of Toronto,
so like just driving back and forth every day was
also very tough. And like luckily my parents live closer
to Toronto, so like the night before every game, I
would stay in Toronto, but obviously I want to also
see Rory, so I'd becoming kind of back and forth,
(26:12):
and then sometimes I'd be able to bring Rory in
to stay at my mom's, but that's also a lot
for her because then he's not at daycare. So it
was like, I don't know how we did it. It
was a lot of planning and a lot of juggling.
I think like that's one of the things that people
who aren't moms don't realize. There's so much planning involved
in my life now to make sure that you can
do anything and you know, get it done, because it's
(26:34):
like it's just crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
It is crazy. Like the minute you're responsible for a kid,
it's like all sense of what was responsibility prior to
that goes out the window and you're like, okay, no,
this is real. Yeah, I can't just have a loose
plan if the dog sitter cancels, like they'll be fine.
It's like next level. So similar to you. I'm gone
most of the time, like when the season goes like,
I'm just gone and it's just Anya by herself with
(26:57):
both the kids. And when I come back when the
seat and ends, usually we will flip and she'll do
most of her work traveling things. And I remember the
first time she left me alone with both of the
kids after we had had our daughter. The first time
I was alone with the kids, it was like thirteen
hours in and like I called on you. I'm like,
you're crazy. I do not understand how you do this,
Like I don't know where this is. Harlan's swallowing toys
(27:19):
like it was an absolute disaster nightmare. Oh my goodness,
I don't understand how people do it all the time. Yeah,
And like I'm actively doing it and I'm still like,
how is this happening?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Rory last week was homesick from daycare. He had fever,
so I had him for like three days. By the
end of it, I was exhausted. I was like, oh
my goodness, Like I'm bringing into the gym with me.
I'm like, do I bring him to the rink and
just like let him sit in the stroller, like what
am I supposed to do?
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Now? Does he love it? Does he have an understanding
of what it is and all that stuff? Like does
he love being around the team or is he still
like not quite there?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Well, because we lived so far, he wasn't around the
team like that that much. He'd kind of come in
every so often, but like he'd come to the games
and he really liked the games. I mean he liked
this Zamboni mostly mom or Zamboni, but any single hockey player,
he says, is mom. So like no matter what, Like
he looks at a hockey player and she's like, oh
it's mummy.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah. That's how Waylan is a little recently he was
like confused why we were watching an NHL game and
he's like, why are there boys playing? He was confusing
to him that no one had long hair.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Well, he was really mad. We played a game at
Prudential and outside of Prudential is obviously all the Devils
players on like the like signage and everything. And he
walked into the rink because at ubs it was all
digital screens, so it was all the girlies. Because that's
the hockey players. To Waylon or the girlies, and so
we rock up and it's a bunch of boys and
he's like, wait a second, where are the girlies? Why
is this rink? Read what's happening here? Like this is
(28:43):
not my team. He's like, I'm not going in, and
so like really like the eminems came out, like all
the things came out. I'm like, please, mom, is there,
I swear? And so like that's funny. I literally was
thinking the same thing. Like that transition from biddy baby
to like kind of getting it is so fun, and
like that's when it almost like makes it harder too,
(29:04):
because then Walen will be like, Mama, are you going
to the rink? Mama? Are you leaving for hockey? So
like I'm sure, and I don't know it because I don't.
I don't get to leave for hockey, but like the
guilt of leaving for work, but that work being something
fun mm hmmm, Like he feels that bomo, So like
I don't even know. That's a toughie too. But you know,
when you go and leave, is he getting it yet?
(29:26):
Is he there?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah? He gets it now, And I think it's gonna
be harder, like when he was such a little baby,
It's like I could give him to anyone and as
long as he was fed and changed and slept like
he was happy. But like lately especially, he's been very
mama mama, mama likes only attached to me. So I
think it's gonna be harder this season for him to transition.
He might not see me as much, especially when we
(29:48):
get on the road too. But last season, my mom
had kind of moved in with us here and he
like loves grand But this season, my mom won't be
with us as much, so it will be a little
more interesting without Brand because last time he was, he
was good with Gran.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
So now Grant is part of the village. Are their
teammates that have like stepped up major whether it's Hockey Canada,
whether it's Toronto, whether it's some form that it's like
really stepped into the anti roll. I know you guys
don't live close, but do you kind of have that
like dynamic, that anti dynamic.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I mean, they all are great when we're there, Like Rory,
I feel like last season was still a little bit
in his like shy stage, so like we would go
there and they'd all want to like they just give
him blueberries because He will eat any blueberries off anyone.
He loves berries. I don't know if I could say
he has like a favorite, but I mean they all
love him. I don't know if he feels like he
(30:40):
still kind of plays a little shy in his very
like mama, mama. So far, we'll see this season might
be better because he gets it now, Like he understands
what you're saying. You know, So now they'll be able
to actually talk to him and he'll be able to understand.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, what stage is he and what's he doing developmentally?
Where's he at?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Oh, he's just running and climbing on.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Everything and growing everything.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Boy stage.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Yeah, he's like trying to talk, but like you can't
fully get the words out sometimes, so he like has
he has like certain words he can say. Then he
gets frustrated because you can't understand what he's saying.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
I love that. So that'll be a fun one. And
I think the other thing about becoming a mom and
like when the big things start happening and they start
to really get like a hold of it, it's like
how you balance it all and you always forget when
they're little, like that's when they're really receiving the messages
and like working hard and doing all the things. So
as you kind of go through the next phase of
your career, which is like post MVP phase hopefully you know,
(31:34):
a repeat, hopefully all the things bringing Toronto to the championship,
all the goals that you have, how do you balance
that goal setting personally and then being a mom because
there is this like not selfishness, but like Maddy does
have to go sit in her own room and recover.
You have to make that time. So how do you
navigate all of that?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Yeah, I think I was selfish, Like to be honest,
like I me and Adam talking about it, I'm like
I was like the person like even in university, like
I like date someone in the summer and then be like,
oh hockey season, Like no, I'm my own person, you know.
So like that was me. So like now looking at
my life, like it's totally different, but in a sense
like having Rory has given me like a really good
(32:15):
balance and so you know, like you can get caught
up in hockey and everything, and for me, it's like
almost was refreshing to just be able to come home
and you literally like forget about whatever happened at practice.
Or whatever happened in the game, Like you can't think
about that because like you're literally playing and making up
songs and dancing and doing whatever else. So like for me,
it's been like such a good balance in a sense
(32:38):
to just be able to separate that side of me
and realize I'm more than a hockey player, Like I'm
I'm a mom, I'm a business owner, I'm all these
different things, and I can do it because I feel
like in so much when I was younger, I was
get caught up in just like hockey, hockey, hockey. So
I think it's been really good for me in a sense,
like to be able to separate it and be able
to come home and like separate all the things I'm
(32:59):
doing that is so relatable.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Like last season, I separated my shoulder on the second
day of training camp. So I went into camp grade
four shoulder separation. The first time we were on the
ice the scrimmage, and it was like just so deflating
and right, like you know, the environment, like I have
to make the team. Now, they can't see me play,
they won't use film like, so I'm just I just
(33:22):
like if I didn't have my kids, I absolutely would
would not have survived that environment. And like I on
and I have talked about it all the time, but
my biggest why was one I had them to come
home to to just like forget about all the bullshit
and just like reground myself and then get ready for
the next day. But also like in the moments where
I was like, I just can't do this anymore, Like
all I could think to myself was if I quit,
(33:44):
I can never tell my kids that they can't quit something.
And it was literally that that every day kept me going.
But it was like just that coming home and like
you said, like dancing, doing something silly, just like having
it be so chill, and like last season we lived
like ten minutes from the rink, so we would have
people over all the time. It was a door where
it was like anyone had a bad day or anyone
just wanted like a family vibe. Who was like Anya
(34:04):
cooked dinner for people all week long and it was
just like constantly fun and just like a like complete
release of any kind of stress and the minute you
got to see the kids, that's so fun.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
So you go through a very quiet and probably very
painful postpartum recovery, then you go through the season and
you were like literally surging every game. You were getting
better every single time you touched the ice. The chemistry
was blowing, the team was coming back together. I felt
like Toronto's story last year was just climbing a mountain.
Like you guys just got so much better every minute
(34:35):
that you guys were on the ice, and then something
happens and you're out again, and there's another injury, and
now you have to balance the mom, the pro athlete,
the surgery, the recovery, the fame, the league, the draft,
like all the things that you're still needed and called
upon to do and your mom. Yeah, and you can't
(34:55):
probably pick Rory up, and you can't probably run around
and you're probably not being your best day any space,
which we always talk about like if we're doing one
thing really well, we're inevitably failing at another thing. So
how does this off season look like? We saw you
back on the ice. We were all clapping, even though
you know we're all mortal rivals, but you know, you
(35:16):
kind of go through this and and so it's a
new focus, it's a new energy to recover. What's this
rehab been like?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Obviously devastating at the beginning, but then I think in
my head I was like, Okay, well I did this
last summer, And to be honest, like with the ostiatus
pubis like there was a lot of unknowns and like
it was a lot I was in a lot of
pain every day, I would say, whereas like with my knee, well,
when I first did it, I actually wasn't in pain
(35:46):
because like when you tear tear your acl like all
the nerves go, so like I was like, oh, maybe
I'm actually okay.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
My results.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
And then when I got the surgery, I was like, whoa,
my what just happened? Like they just blew up my
whole kneecap off my body. So that was like the
end of May I had surgery. So then yeah, so
probably like June, first few weeks were pretty tough and
I was like still on crutches or whatever and got moving.
Then like kind of when I got moving again, I
felt more normal, and I think I had a lot
(36:15):
more confidence in the fact that like there's so many
people that have had this injury before, and there's like
quite strict protocols of what you follow and what you
can and can't do, and the progressions in that The
only thing is, like my mom was supposed to come
and help us, and then my dad ended up getting
a new knee in the beginning of July. So yeah,
(36:36):
and Rory was home from daycare all of July because
daycare was under construction, So July was a bit of
a whirlwind. I was taken Rory to the gym with
me when I needed to go to rehab. My neighbors
were watching, like he was just all over the place
for that month. But we figured it out and we
made it through July. Now he's back at daycare and
(36:56):
all is well during the day, and here we are
so I can talk to you guys because he's still
at daycare.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Does he like going to the gym? Is he good
at the gym? Like when I take Whalen to the gym,
it's like a liability. Harlan's okay, but whales so Whalen's four,
so maybe that's why. But I can't take him to
the gym with me.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Like sometimes he is, but my trainer's pretty good at
like holding on to him or playing with a ball
if he needs to. But also like we normally just
put Miss Rachel on the TV. Okay, give him snacks
and he's very food motivated and also very miss Rachel
motivated that that tends to work.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Him and Harlan would be best friends.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, I was gonna say the tumble track at your
gym pack is really the killer of all the focus.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah, there's like a giant trampoline. Yeah, and there's like
big that we use like balloon sometimes for things. So
it's like the trampoline balloon combo. He just goes right there.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Doesn't work, it's perfect. So obviously the studies behind how
to repair a knee are definitely greater than the studies
of female athletes and or hockey players specifically that come
back from a post part of injury, which is zer work.
By the way, for the listeners, there's zero support there.
So just being a mom that's given birth and then
(38:05):
skated that's crazy to me. But also it sounds like
you just had a renewed focus because it was more clear,
like coming off the postpartum is not there. Having a
baby is the most unclear thing in the entire world.
But as you go through it, you learn there's things
that you gather. People give you advice, They give you
good advice, and they give you sometimes really terrible advice.
What's the best advice that you have or havn't gotten
(38:27):
being a mom? Now?
Speaker 3 (38:30):
The best advice? I don't know. You guys got some
advice for me? I need your advice.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I think the thing we talk about most on this pod,
no matter who we're talking to and every walk of life,
is that it's imperfectly perfect, like you know, Like I
think that that's always something that we will have such
a hard time with is be like we we didn't
show up well as moms today and then have the
guilt that that's who we are as moms is and
that's not correct. So I always feel like when we
(38:59):
talk talk about this with people, what's the best advice
we have? What do you wish you could tell your
younger self in having a mom? You know, maybe yours was,
don't skate so soon, girl, like it hurts, call someone,
call your doctor. But I think it's I think it's
always like it's the balance of trying to be perfect
at something that you so desperately want to be perfect
at and then being okay, mom guilt, Yeah we're not
(39:21):
doing enough. For sure. You never feel like you are
no matter what you're doing you could be being the
best mom in the world and someone posts a picture
and they're doing it at a pumpkin patch and you're
doing it in an apple ordered and you're like, damn it,
the pumpkin patch is so much better, right, Like it's
the compare that we can't live the other week. Well
that's dang.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
I think I should start a mom support group. Like
my teammates are the best. But sometimes I'm like, people
just don't understand, you know what I mean, Like there's
just so much going on. It's so different, but it's
so like amazingly different. Like I always meet people and
I'm like, how is this person doing that? How's that
person doing that? Like people are looking at us like
how are they doing that? It's just everyone's experiences are
(40:03):
so like you pick up different things, you know, mm hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Do we have a mom on every team? We almost
have a mom on every team?
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yeah, we do.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Know. The babies, well, they're just taking over. And like
the thing is, they're female athletes. They're taking over and
the femal athletes, like it's not easy to do, and
if you're in a same sex FEMA couple, it's expensive
and so then there's like all these hurdles and then
the PA is rolling out all these incredible benefits, and
so it's almost like the natural progression is then for
(40:31):
like the moms, is to unite and then educate everybody
on what the benefits actually even are and how much
they should or shouldn't look at them.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
The benefits we have are actually pretty incredible. That's what
i'meric into other leagues, like like reproductive benefits like fertility
and things like.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
That way easier, Yeah, for moms to become moms.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
The last thing I want to kind of like wrap
on and ask is So this year was the most
incredible year for women's talking. The numbers were there, the
viewership was there, the on nice performance was there. Maddie
and I will lovingly call this the best hockey we've
ever seen or played like. It is truly the best.
So when was the moment that it like hit you
(41:09):
it's the future of the game. It's happening right now
and your son is watching you do it every day.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Oh, I don't know, it's hard to say, like the moment,
but the game when he got to walk in with
me and my mom knit him like a little tea
sweater with mom on the back. I thought that that
was so special, just like him kind of being in
my world more like normally he would just come to
the game with like my mom or my husband, but
like kind of getting to be involved more I thought
was really cool, and like getting to walk in with me.
(41:38):
So that was a super special moment. But I mean
at the beginning of every game, I kind of always
look up and find him in the crowd and find
my parents and see where he's sitting. I'd be sleeping already.
I think it was just so special to have him
there and to know, just like even though he won't
remember that, to be able to like show him pictures
and look back and be like you were also involved
(41:59):
in something that was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
That's awesome. And that's all we have today. Thank you
for listening.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I'm on you Packer, and I'm Madison Packer and this
is These packs Puck.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
These pax Puck is a production of Iheartwomen's Sports and
Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. It's hosted by us Madison
and Onya Packer. Emily Maronoff is our senior producer and
story editor. We're mixed and mastered by Behie Fraser, and
our executive producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz and Ali Perry.
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer. I'm a recently retired pro
hockey vet. I was a founding member of the National
Women's Hockey League, a pillar in the PHF, and an
inaugural member of the PWHL Sirens.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Anya Packer, also a former pro hockey player
and now a full Madison Packer.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Stan Sanya and I met through hockey and now we're
married and moms. So two awesome toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And this is these packed puck where we talk about
everything for professional women's athletes, to sports, to raising children
and all the messiness in between. Hello, Maddie, how you
doing good?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
So here's your hot take for the day.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Let a fly hockey hot take.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Natalie Spooner was drafted offensively low, offensively low, and I
think some of it probably, although we're not supposed to
say it and no one will acknowledge it. Right was
the uncertainty behind her return after giving birth to her
son Rory, but wildly low for a three time Olympian
(01:06):
who then went on to throw it back in everyone's
face right and finish as the league MVP, but fourth
round Natalie Spooner, Come on.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
No, And the worst part was, like the fourth round
is when they stopped the big broadcast, So you almost
wonder if they would have even chosen her further down
the whole entire draft, but they wanted to make sure
she got the broadcast, the commentary and all of that,
because remember they made the swap, So I feel like
had that not been a caveat as well, they would
(01:36):
have even further underrated her, Which is the craziest thing
I've ever heard.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Which I guess is everyone's right, right, I mean, like
that's the risk and sports, you see it happen all
the time. You have a player who has been so
dominant at every level and she has exceeded expectations and
she has outperformed and overperformed, and like you just have
to know that that's just going to motivate and fuel
the even more, right, I Mean, she's an athlete, she's
(02:02):
a mom. She's coming back into this environment where I
have to imagine that that was a big chip on
her shoulder.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
That plus couple that all together with this is a
player that's already not made a national team, not made
an Olympic roster, killed herself to redefine herself as an
athlete on the ice and then make and cement her
spot on that team. I mean, this isn't the kind
of player that you really want to like bet against
in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, I mean, it just was so interesting to watch
it play out. And there's a lot that goes into
the draft, right, I mean there was also you know,
player circumstances and so like we don't really know all
of it and like the reasoning behind all of it.
But I just think that a player with Natalie Spooner's
pedigree and resume should have gone higher in the draft.
And I'm I guess good for Toronto right that they
(02:49):
were able to get her in the fourth round, But
like it just seems wild to me because I think
that she was as proven when she finished League MVP.
I mean, she's one of the best players in the
world right.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Now, one hundred percent. But also, this is why we
talk about the things we talk about because as moms,
there is the stigma, there is the question mark you
are not less of an athlete because your body went
through a transformation, and it's such a male dominated space
that that is the question mark. And how crazy when
you've already watched her, but five months later get on
(03:22):
the ice with the Olympic team at Worlds to even
ask the question, like, what are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I think the thing for me that like riles me
up so much about it is it's it's sports is
a business, right, So like we are in the business
of doing business with our bodies being our vehicle to
make money, right, and so when you get injured, inevitably
that lowers your stock and you may or may not
get a bigger contract, smaller contract. Like we've all been there,
(03:51):
we all understand what that's like. You lose spots on
teams because of injury, and in theory like pregnancy, coming
back from that is similar. But for some reason, yeah,
but for some reason to me, like it just feels
different because we're talking about a mom, right, We're not
talking about like a broken arm or a dislocated shoulder.
It just bothers me more. I guess that that doubt
(04:12):
was there in the same way, even though from a
business standpoint, I guess it makes sense. But I was
just like I just remember watching her all season long
being so pumped and she was playing against me, like
there were moments where I definitely should not have been,
but like it was just like for moms everywhere, like
look at you go, girl, I mean seriously, like it was.
It was just so cool to see. And so yeah,
(04:33):
that's my hot take is that that was a steal
for Toronto and Natalie Spooner is one of the best
players in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Full Stott double down, totally agree all the flowers to
that hot take. I fully could not agree with you anymore. Also,
when we talk to her, which we do later in
this episode, the stories that she tells, the pathway that
she got to and through pregnancy to postpartum, to playing
on the Olympic team to taking time off the ice,
(04:59):
like all of these unknowns about her game make it
that much more insane and impressive. I cannot wait until
we dive into it.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, popped, it's gonna be a great conversation. All right, cool,
So check in.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Where are we at today?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
How we feeling?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I feel amazing. I feel like every time we record,
I'm in like my greatest headspace ever. But I just
had that whole hockey hot take. I'm riled up now.
I want to talk about women things. I love moms, women,
are the best. Hockey's insane and like I'm excited to
jump in.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I'm feeling pretty good too, so maybe it'll do something
fun with the kids later. I'm like eighty two ish
lifetime prs on everything in the gym today. Came home.
You set up a little zenden for me.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I did set up a Zenden. Did you like it?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Dae? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
You know what, when you don't sleep well and the
kids are crazy and it's just like everything's going on
at once, it really feels like crap. And then I know,
you go to the gym, which is like even more
strenuous than me, just like staring at three screens. And
so you come home and I think, if they there's
a candlelit, if the boots are out, if you've got
to like a meditation on the TV, then maybe you'll
(06:06):
pick the kids up from school. I could chill ax
like it'd all be a good vibe.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, everyone deserves a zen done in their home, which
is basically just a space where you can go and
it's peaceful, it's quiet, like for me it's the guest
room or my lego room down in the basement, and
any'll light a candle sometimes I'll watch TV. Today we
put on a little meditation. I had this like I
massage your thing on. It was fantastic, my little happy,
(06:33):
safe space.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I think that's the part that people don't recognize with
like athlete moms, is you have to do those things.
That's part of like if I'm on a meeting, that's
your meeting. Like you go to the gym, you come home,
and you have to have that space. But like theoretically
it doesn't make any sense because it's resting. But resting
is so much a part of your job that as
(06:56):
an athlete in a mom, I'm always like she has
to rest, almost to the point where you'll start doing
other things and I'm like, pencils down, go recover your body.
Your whoop is like full screaming at you, and you don't.
That's the rest that you need and you don't take it.
But that's the mom guilt.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
And I think interestingly enough, our next guest is a
great person to talk to about this because she understands
better than anyone, maybe even including myself, what it's like
to balance all of it, because she's currently doing that
right now. She is a absolute powerhouse for the Toronto Scepters,
who were ranked first in the league last season, even
(07:35):
though Minnesota went on to win the championship. She is
a three time Olympic medalist, two golds and a silver
with the Canadian national team. She is a rivaled Ohio
State Buckeye and a new mom. She gave birth to
her son, Rory in twenty twenty two, and perhaps the
most insane part of her resume, she resumed training four
weeks later. Insane and I think she skated until thirty
(08:00):
six weeks, which she'll clarify when we chat with her.
But we're super excited. Buckle up for a good chat
with Natalie Spooner.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
We'll be back with Natalie right after the break.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Natalie, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So you and I have kind of known each other,
like quasi known each other for a long time. I
think I played against you growing up, and then we
played against each other at you eighteens, and then you
were at Ohio State for three of the four years
that I was at Wisconsin, so we played against each
other a lot. What kind of led into your decision
to kick things off to go to Ohio State?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Of all places, you're gonna die laughing at this. So actually, like,
growing up my whole life, I thought I was going
to play at Wisconsin. My older brother played at Wisconsin,
and so like I grew up having like Little Bucky
the Badger Dolls and a Barbie cheerleader from Wisconsin and
like all these things. And then it was time to choose.
Someone was like, well, let's just go visit another big
(09:02):
school that's a little bit closer to home. And then
I went to Ohiose State and I fell in love
with it, and that was kind of history from there.
I eventually went back on my official and I really
liked it still, so I committed to Ohio State.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
You guys were a powerhouse then, and the school's only
gotten better. I mean the last couple of years they've
won some championships. Like it's an unreal program.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, I mean we weren't great when I was there.
I would say we kind of turned the tides a little,
but now they're so good.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
You know, you grow up playing hockey in Canada, you
come to the US, you kind of see both cultures
of hockey, whether that's fandom, whether that's like how much
people like the care factor of hockey. You know, what
do you make of it? What's your kind of like
senses you experience both sides of the border.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
So I grew up obviously in Canada, and I played
girls hockey from the time I was five. I played
like one year of boys before that, and like just
to see the girls hockey grow here, like there's so
many more options now, Like I think when I was playing,
like when I first started, it was like three different
age groups together on a girls team, where it's like
now there's like each age group and there's like multiple
(10:04):
levels of each age group, which is amazing to just
see like girls hockey take off like that. And then
obviously getting to go to the States for university, like
I always think like it was like I went into
a movie like what you would see on TV, like
when you picture these like you know universities that are
on TV, and the parties and the sports, like it
was so much bigger than I thought, Like just the
(10:25):
support around the sports, Like the fans are such die
hard like Buckeye fans, So I think it was just
amazing to be able to have that experience and to
see all the support that gets behind the athletes and
to make sure you're successful with whatever you need throughout
your career while you're there.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
That's awesome. So you know, the movie of college exists
and then you go play in three Olympics like I'm
sorry that movie, Like what is that movie?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Like that?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Because that's the whole different level. But it's also a
whole different dream.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah. I mean, I didn't know if it was going
to be like a dream that was going to come
true for me. I'm in twenty ten. I remember exactly
where I was on my college campus, like at Ohio State,
getting called saying I wasn't going to be centralized to
have the chance to make the team. And then after
university it was kind of like, Okay, well I'll play
another year, see if I make it, and if not,
like maybe I'll get a regular job and become a
(11:15):
regular person. Luckily, I went into the twenty fourteen kind
of centralization and ended up making the team and then
kind of just tried to keep getting better every year
since then, and luckily it's been working out and been
able to, you know, help make an impact on that team,
and it's I mean, it's been a dream come true.
Every Olympics is so different but each experience I feel
like you can grow from and learn something and just
(11:38):
take it all in. And they've all been so different
but so enjoyable at the same time.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I'm not going to let you bury the lead here.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Spooner was the league MVP last season, So a little
bit better every year is a humble way to say
she's killing it. You also like there was a rise
to kind of fame through this trajectory of the Olympics,
right when we start out looking at where women's hockey
was and now the eyes and the exposure on it.
But you couple that with you're a Canadian hockey player
and you were on the amazing race, Like what was
that like kind of coming back from the Olympics, and
(12:07):
it just seems kind of like when you guys come back,
like things completely take over and transform, And so how
has that experience been?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Yeah, it's pretty cool, I think Obviously I had no
clue what to expect after the twenty fourteen Olympics. I
just kind of came back and I was like sweet,
like I have a go metal and get to share
with my family, like you don't really know what you're doing.
But actually, through centralization, we had got like this email
and it was like mostly for retired hockey players and
if anyone wants to apply for the amazing race, And
like I loved watching the show that I was like,
(12:36):
I like went to my teammate, I was like, do
you want to apply to this? Like I mean saying
like you got to be like retired maybe, but you know,
maybe we could just like throw in an application and
see And we ended up getting like the callback that
we had to go for like our meetings, like actually
like during centralization, and then we found out actually right
after the Olympics that we were going to be on
the show. And then at that point we were like,
oh my goodness, like what did we get ourselves into?
(12:56):
Like is this even a good idea right now? Like
we just came off this Olympic, like Megan had broken
her hand, Like we were like what are we doing?
But we just went for it and it was a blast.
It was so cool to get to travel around and
do things like I would have never I will never
skydive again. I have SKUYI do it again, Like just
things like that that I'm like I wouldn't normally do
in my life, but you're kind of forced to do
(13:18):
in a sense, but we're so competitive that you just
do it. Yeah, it was a really cool experience and
one that I'll remember for a long time.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
That's awesome. So to your question pack, which I loved, like,
was there an Olympics post Olympic tour that you felt
the real shift? Do you feel that shift when you
I mean, I'm sure when you go places in like
the Hockey world, you're Natalie Spooner, like everyone's looking at you,
everyone knows who you are. But have you started to
feel that shift in your real life towards the fame,
towards the you know what have you? Or is there
(13:46):
specific games afterwards or after the race that you felt like,
oh okay, like we're starting to get somewhere, like we're
cooking now.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah. No, I feel like there's definitely been a shift.
I think obviously back you know, when we had the
seat of HWL, like it was is always like people
watched us at the Olympics and then kind of forgot
about us during the season. And I think with the
Peter HL now like all of that's been revamped and
people can watch us, especially watching us on TV, I
think has helped a lot to get our names back
(14:14):
out there and people kind of be like, wow, Okay,
they do play all these other times, and you know,
I recognize her from the Olympics, and now she's playing here.
Let's watch and let's follow. So I think we're getting
more of a following now that we're so much on TV,
way more and more accessible to so many people.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
So that's the part that is always so interesting, is
like how things evolve, especially in sport, and especially watching
you and I think you know the biggest piece of
your story and all of us as mom's stories, like
the moment we became a mom, but take us like
right before that moment, how did you know you wanted
to be a mom in the middle of your hockey career.
Was it like marriage momming and I'm going to be
a hockey player regardless of the timeline? Kind of where
(14:54):
did you fall in the idea of creating your family
going from Natalie to mom.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
I think I always knew I wanted to be a mom.
It was just kind of a matter of time. And
like now, my husband always jokes like we're on the
Olympic cycle, not the mentional cycle, and so we kind
of knew, like okay after that Olympics, like we wanted
to try to start a family, but obviously it's not
that easy and it's got to work out and everything's
got to go to plan. And luckily for us, it
(15:22):
worked out kind of exactly to plan. We were able
to get pregnant right away, and like, in a sense,
I had an easy pregnancy. We had a lot at
the beginning that a lot of genetic testing stuff that
wasn't going well. So we had about probably like from
twelve weeks to like sixteen weeks that were very unknown,
like if the pregnancy was going to be sustainable and
what was going to happen. But then from the point
(15:44):
of him being healthy, it was quite a good pregnancy
that I was able to kind of keep skating and
keep training and just kind of stay pretty normal, I
would say, through my pregnancy. And then I kind of
knew with the timeline that we'd been given, like would
I have time to get back for old Like I
kne it would be a time crunch, but I kind
of thought, Okay, if all goes smooth, there's a chance
(16:04):
that could happen.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I mean, that's crazy, Like I don't think most people
realize how hard it is to compete at this level,
especially now that all of the best of the best
are playing against each other every day. Right then you
couple that with your growing a human being, you burst
the human being, and then you come back and you
perform the best at the highest of levels. I mean,
that's incredible. At any point, have you stopped to consider
(16:27):
like the true remarkability in what you did last season.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
I think it's hard to just kind of think about
because it was so busy, But during some conversations with
friends and family, like they're like, it's pretty amazing that
you just proved you can be a mom and also
be an MVP, And I was like, oh, I guess
I never like thought of it like that in a sense,
like you can still be a mom, but you can
be like the top and the best at that time.
(16:50):
And like I'd be talking to people who are carpenters
or you know, in like very male dominated fields and
they'd be like, this is inspiring, because yeah, people second
guess me and doubt me all the time, and like
people didn't think you would be, you know, as good
as you were before, and all of a sudden, you
just proved them all wrong. And like they're like, we
can take that into our daily lives too, of like
(17:13):
going into a male dominated area and people being like, no,
you're not gonna be able to do this job, or
do you know how to do this job, and then
be like, yes, I know how to do this job.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I mean it was motivating honestly to me, like like
I watched what my wife went through and in the
difficulties in coming back, et cetera. But like I remember,
obviously it's weird because we're competitors and we play against
each other, But I remember watching your game sometime and
being like, hell yeah, because you're just out there doing
it and you were underrated in that draft. You should
not have been drafted in the fifth round, Like the
(17:42):
fact that you weren't in the top fourth round I
was offended by, Like you should have gone in the
top two rounds. And I remember thinking to myself, I
wonder if it's because like there's uncertainty of how she
comes back, and Anya and I literally talked about it
like surrounding the draft. Everything was going on, me being
like I hope she just kills it, Like I hope
she comes back and throws it in everyone's face. For
moms everywhere, and then you did and it was truly,
(18:04):
truly incredible. So I just I had to tell you
that because I'm genuinely amazed at how well you performed
last season and just every year you raise the bar,
but having come back from having a kid and then
to play as well as you did and do all
the things the way you do them, it's good for
the league, it's good for my team and the game
and everything. But it's just awesome.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
You know, we watched Alison Felix years ago become a
mom and then have like brands and partners be like,
I can't invest in you, I don't trust you, and
I watched a lot of what you did, and brands
really leaned in, like kind of give us the business
of being a mom in hockey, because there probably is
some people that walked away or didn't want to work
with you, or lessened investment because of that unknown or
(18:43):
if that never happened. Tell us what was it like
to make the business decision like the business of Natalie
Spooner to become a mom.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I think obviously, like I have some amazing partners and
been able to get my brand. I guess to a
point where I had just partners that were willing to
stick with me, and I made it pretty clear early
on that I was coming back. There was like always
the questions like, Okay, is this she done? Is she retiring,
she's starting a family, But I made it pretty clear that,
like no, I was coming back to play hockey. So
(19:11):
luckily they stuck with me, and a lot of them
even kind of joined me and being able to tell
my story. Adidas did like an amazing spot about kind
of my comeback to if I was going to make
the worlds or not, truted one where I had Worri
out on the ice for the first time. So there's
been like some amazing moments actually, like with my partners,
and I think in a sense like it's helping them
(19:33):
too as much as their support is helping me get
to where I want to be. For them, like women
make decisions in a lot of households, so for them
to go out to all the ladies and to be
able to show them that you know, this is possible,
you can be strong, you can be a mom, I
think it's only empowering and I think it was great
business for them to be able to support me, but
(19:55):
also tell my story the.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Expense of being a female athlete. When you look at
it all right, look at it in a vacuum without partners,
the reality is it doesn't happen. You just can't do
it right. There's daycare, there's there's the kids always need
the closure, the cutest, the food, that like, all the
things right, and so it's like where that fits is
that middle ground of like making it possible and like, yes,
(20:18):
the salaries are getting there, Yes the things are getting there,
the viewership is getting there, but there's still that stop gap.
And so watching Partners kind of melt away from the
shame of pregnancy and the shame of momdom through your
story and then to Madison's point, like becoming the pinnacle
of it all is honestly amazing, but it's not always
(20:39):
that pretty, right, So, like, tell us, did you have
that that kind of postpartum lag where you're like, Okay,
I might be gaining all the things, but I'm not.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
There looking back now, it was hard, I think in
the moment, like I didn't know any different. It was
my first pregnancy, and if it wouldn't have been my
first pregnancy, I would probably have done a lot of
things differently. I guess a story I haven't really shared
that much because there hasn't really been like the right
space to share it. Where I was like, people will
(21:07):
not understand this is okay, like this is the very
mom thing. But like you know, like when you're pregnant
and you kind of get like the pain down in
your pubic bone and people are like lightning crotch.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
You just have lightning crotch.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
So I was having very severe cases of that where
I was like okay, and I would skate and I'd
be like out of commission from workouts for like two days,
and I was like what is going on, Like this
is crazy, and they're like all the moms, I mean,
don't worry, you know, you just got It's just it's
gonna be okay. So then I stopped skating at thirty
six weeks I want to say thirty fourth thirty anyways,
(21:41):
pretty like late, which I probably would have stopped earlier
had I known what I was doing to my body
that postpartum. I felt fine the first month, like obviously
the first month is hard. We had thresh problems, we
had jaundice problems, like we just you just deal. And
then at a month, I decided, Okay, let's just like
I do out on the ice and just kind of
(22:01):
feel start you know, skating a bit, start working out again,
like I'm by skating, like it was like public skating
at first, and I was still getting this pain and
I was like okay, and then I was like, but
it's kind of manageable, like I because I wasn't going
too hard. And then when I knew I wanted to
make World Championships at five months, I really started to
ramp things up. And that's when I started to get
(22:24):
really bad. And I was like, oh, like don't know
exactly what this is, but obviously like something is very
inflamed in there and unhappy, and to be honest, like
three World Championships, like I don't know how I was
opening my legs or taking a stride when I look back,
like I had like all the sage rub, all the
hot rub, like everything just numbing pretty much. Problem was
(22:45):
I was also breastfeeding, so I couldn't any pain killers
or anything for it. So I was trying just to
like make it better World champions with a different animal too,
because then I lost my milk. I had to get
my milk back and it was like a balancing act
of like trying to have my there, like feeding Rory,
and it was like it was just a whole other thing. Anyways,
coming back from Worlds, I finally got an MRI and
(23:07):
like got my pubic bone looked at, and I had
a pretty bad case of ostiitis pubis, which I guess
is very common in hockey players and also pregnant ladies.
So I was pretty much like the perfect candidate for this.
So I actually didn't skate for six months after World Championships,
So like coming into last season, I didn't skate the
whole summer, Like I didn't skate at September camp and
(23:29):
I played one game in Utica for like five minutes
just to see how it felt in like our preseason whatever,
because like I hadn't been skating or playing, like I
had to like skate one day and then rest for
two days, like I had to really slowly get back
into it. So they weren't even sure if I was
going to be like ready for the beginning of season
because I was still battling this. And then so even
at Worlds, like I didn't practice at all. I just
(23:50):
played the games because I couldn't like I couldn't practice
and like keep aggravating it. And so the same kind
of was like at the beginning of the season, like
I would only be able to skate like two days
in a row at first, Like I wouldn't practice every
time with Toronto, I would take a practice off every
so often. I end up getting like a Cortizon shot
and making the world a difference. But like eventually I
(24:10):
got better by the end of the season, actually, like
I started to feel pretty good. But yeah, like I
was battling that for a while. So like that's something
that like, looking back on, I'm like, I wish I
would have known that this was like something that could
happen in pregnancies or just happened in general, because I
had no clue. I just thought it was just a
normal pregnancy symptom.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
But yeah, that was.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Something that was crazy. I just threw that all out there.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
But I love that though.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
We'll be back with Natalie right after the.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Break here everyone, And like we always talk about this
on this podcast, is like the reality and what's like
actually happening is it's never. It's never what we all
think it is, right, So the reality from our point
of view, like you know, you're looking at it as
(24:58):
like a mom who's played, who's watching you do all
the things? You get six points at Worlds. I think
that year it was like, you know, no tiny showing
and to hear all of this and know that you
kind of shouldered that burden by yourself. You know, you're
not telling anybody, You're going through it by yourself, and
like everybody is just watching you completely dominate. And so
like the stark difference in reality of what that looks
(25:19):
like is that is crazy?
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
So who do you lean on in those moments? Is
it your husband? Is it your mom? Like who do
you call? What's what's your confident on? Where do you
find some kind of peace?
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Definitely my husband is a huge support. My mom pretty
much like moved in with us, Like my mom came
to Worlds, was in the hotel room with Rory because
my husband still obviously had to work some of the times,
so she would come out early and pretty much have
Rory the whole time, and like when I'd pump between periods,
like someone would run the milk up to her like
for him. But yeah, like last season with Toronto, it
(25:51):
is definitely a juggling max. Because of my husband's work,
we live about two and a half hours outside of Toronto,
so like just driving back and forth every day was
also very tough. And like luckily my parents live closer
to Toronto, so like the night before every game, I
would stay in Toronto, but obviously I want to also
see Rory, so I'd becoming kind of back and forth,
(26:12):
and then sometimes I'd be able to bring Rory in
to stay at my mom's, but that's also a lot
for her because then he's not at daycare. So it
was like, I don't know how we did it. It
was a lot of planning and a lot of juggling.
I think like that's one of the things that people
who aren't moms don't realize. There's so much planning involved
in my life now to make sure that you can
do anything and you know, get it done, because it's
(26:34):
like it's just crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
It is crazy. Like the minute you're responsible for a kid,
it's like all sense of what was responsibility prior to
that goes out the window and you're like, okay, no,
this is real. Yeah, I can't just have a loose
plan if the dog sitter cancels, like they'll be fine.
It's like next level. So similar to you. I'm gone
most of the time, like when the season goes like,
I'm just gone and it's just Anya by herself with
(26:57):
both the kids. And when I come back when the
seat and ends, usually we will flip and she'll do
most of her work traveling things. And I remember the
first time she left me alone with both of the
kids after we had had our daughter. The first time
I was alone with the kids, it was like thirteen
hours in and like I called on you. I'm like,
you're crazy. I do not understand how you do this,
Like I don't know where this is. Harlan's swallowing toys
(27:19):
like it was an absolute disaster nightmare. Oh my goodness,
I don't understand how people do it all the time. Yeah,
And like I'm actively doing it and I'm still like,
how is this happening?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Rory last week was homesick from daycare. He had fever,
so I had him for like three days. By the
end of it, I was exhausted. I was like, oh
my goodness, Like I'm bringing into the gym with me.
I'm like, do I bring him to the rink and
just like let him sit in the stroller, like what
am I supposed to do?
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Now? Does he love it? Does he have an understanding
of what it is and all that stuff? Like does
he love being around the team or is he still
like not quite there?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Well, because we lived so far, he wasn't around the
team like that that much. He'd kind of come in
every so often, but like he'd come to the games
and he really liked the games. I mean he liked
this Zamboni mostly mom or Zamboni, but any single hockey player,
he says, is mom. So like no matter what, Like
he looks at a hockey player and she's like, oh
it's mummy.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah. That's how Waylan is a little recently he was
like confused why we were watching an NHL game and
he's like, why are there boys playing? He was confusing
to him that no one had long hair.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Well, he was really mad. We played a game at
Prudential and outside of Prudential is obviously all the Devils
players on like the like signage and everything. And he
walked into the rink because at ubs it was all
digital screens, so it was all the girlies. Because that's
the hockey players. To Waylon or the girlies, and so
we rock up and it's a bunch of boys and
he's like, wait a second, where are the girlies? Why
is this rink? Read what's happening here? Like this is
(28:43):
not my team. He's like, I'm not going in, and
so like really like the eminems came out, like all
the things came out. I'm like, please, mom, is there,
I swear? And so like that's funny. I literally was
thinking the same thing. Like that transition from biddy baby
to like kind of getting it is so fun, and
like that's when it almost like makes it harder too,
(29:04):
because then Walen will be like, Mama, are you going
to the rink? Mama? Are you leaving for hockey? So
like I'm sure, and I don't know it because I don't.
I don't get to leave for hockey, but like the
guilt of leaving for work, but that work being something
fun mm hmmm, Like he feels that bomo, So like
I don't even know. That's a toughie too. But you know,
when you go and leave, is he getting it yet?
(29:26):
Is he there?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah? He gets it now, And I think it's gonna
be harder, like when he was such a little baby,
It's like I could give him to anyone and as
long as he was fed and changed and slept like
he was happy. But like lately especially, he's been very
mama mama, mama likes only attached to me. So I
think it's gonna be harder this season for him to transition.
He might not see me as much, especially when we
(29:48):
get on the road too. But last season, my mom
had kind of moved in with us here and he
like loves grand But this season, my mom won't be
with us as much, so it will be a little
more interesting without Brand because last time he was, he
was good with Gran.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
So now Grant is part of the village. Are their
teammates that have like stepped up major whether it's Hockey Canada,
whether it's Toronto, whether it's some form that it's like
really stepped into the anti roll. I know you guys
don't live close, but do you kind of have that
like dynamic, that anti dynamic.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I mean, they all are great when we're there, Like Rory,
I feel like last season was still a little bit
in his like shy stage, so like we would go
there and they'd all want to like they just give
him blueberries because He will eat any blueberries off anyone.
He loves berries. I don't know if I could say
he has like a favorite, but I mean they all
love him. I don't know if he feels like he
(30:40):
still kind of plays a little shy in his very
like mama, mama. So far, we'll see this season might
be better because he gets it now, Like he understands
what you're saying. You know, So now they'll be able
to actually talk to him and he'll be able to understand.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, what stage is he and what's he doing developmentally?
Where's he at?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Oh, he's just running and climbing on.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Everything and growing everything.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Boy stage.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Yeah, he's like trying to talk, but like you can't
fully get the words out sometimes, so he like has
he has like certain words he can say. Then he
gets frustrated because you can't understand what he's saying.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
I love that. So that'll be a fun one. And
I think the other thing about becoming a mom and
like when the big things start happening and they start
to really get like a hold of it, it's like
how you balance it all and you always forget when
they're little, like that's when they're really receiving the messages
and like working hard and doing all the things. So
as you kind of go through the next phase of
your career, which is like post MVP phase hopefully you know,
(31:34):
a repeat, hopefully all the things bringing Toronto to the championship,
all the goals that you have, how do you balance
that goal setting personally and then being a mom because
there is this like not selfishness, but like Maddy does
have to go sit in her own room and recover.
You have to make that time. So how do you
navigate all of that?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Yeah, I think I was selfish, Like to be honest,
like I me and Adam talking about it, I'm like
I was like the person like even in university, like
I like date someone in the summer and then be like,
oh hockey season, Like no, I'm my own person, you know.
So like that was me. So like now looking at
my life, like it's totally different, but in a sense
like having Rory has given me like a really good
(32:15):
balance and so you know, like you can get caught
up in hockey and everything, and for me, it's like
almost was refreshing to just be able to come home
and you literally like forget about whatever happened at practice.
Or whatever happened in the game, Like you can't think
about that because like you're literally playing and making up
songs and dancing and doing whatever else. So like for me,
it's been like such a good balance in a sense
(32:38):
to just be able to separate that side of me
and realize I'm more than a hockey player, Like I'm
I'm a mom, I'm a business owner, I'm all these
different things, and I can do it because I feel
like in so much when I was younger, I was
get caught up in just like hockey, hockey, hockey. So
I think it's been really good for me in a sense,
like to be able to separate it and be able
to come home and like separate all the things I'm
(32:59):
doing that is so relatable.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Like last season, I separated my shoulder on the second
day of training camp. So I went into camp grade
four shoulder separation. The first time we were on the
ice the scrimmage, and it was like just so deflating
and right, like you know, the environment, like I have
to make the team. Now, they can't see me play,
they won't use film like, so I'm just I just
(33:22):
like if I didn't have my kids, I absolutely would
would not have survived that environment. And like I on
and I have talked about it all the time, but
my biggest why was one I had them to come
home to to just like forget about all the bullshit
and just like reground myself and then get ready for
the next day. But also like in the moments where
I was like, I just can't do this anymore, Like
all I could think to myself was if I quit,
(33:44):
I can never tell my kids that they can't quit something.
And it was literally that that every day kept me going.
But it was like just that coming home and like
you said, like dancing, doing something silly, just like having
it be so chill, and like last season we lived
like ten minutes from the rink, so we would have
people over all the time. It was a door where
it was like anyone had a bad day or anyone
just wanted like a family vibe. Who was like Anya
(34:04):
cooked dinner for people all week long and it was
just like constantly fun and just like a like complete
release of any kind of stress and the minute you
got to see the kids, that's so fun.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
So you go through a very quiet and probably very
painful postpartum recovery, then you go through the season and
you were like literally surging every game. You were getting
better every single time you touched the ice. The chemistry
was blowing, the team was coming back together. I felt
like Toronto's story last year was just climbing a mountain.
Like you guys just got so much better every minute
(34:35):
that you guys were on the ice, and then something
happens and you're out again, and there's another injury, and
now you have to balance the mom, the pro athlete,
the surgery, the recovery, the fame, the league, the draft,
like all the things that you're still needed and called
upon to do and your mom. Yeah, and you can't
(34:55):
probably pick Rory up, and you can't probably run around
and you're probably not being your best day any space,
which we always talk about like if we're doing one
thing really well, we're inevitably failing at another thing. So
how does this off season look like? We saw you
back on the ice. We were all clapping, even though
you know we're all mortal rivals, but you know, you
(35:16):
kind of go through this and and so it's a
new focus, it's a new energy to recover. What's this
rehab been like?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Obviously devastating at the beginning, but then I think in
my head I was like, Okay, well I did this
last summer, And to be honest, like with the ostiatus
pubis like there was a lot of unknowns and like
it was a lot I was in a lot of
pain every day, I would say, whereas like with my knee, well,
when I first did it, I actually wasn't in pain
(35:46):
because like when you tear tear your acl like all
the nerves go, so like I was like, oh, maybe
I'm actually okay.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
My results.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
And then when I got the surgery, I was like, whoa,
my what just happened? Like they just blew up my
whole kneecap off my body. So that was like the
end of May I had surgery. So then yeah, so
probably like June, first few weeks were pretty tough and
I was like still on crutches or whatever and got moving.
Then like kind of when I got moving again, I
felt more normal, and I think I had a lot
(36:15):
more confidence in the fact that like there's so many
people that have had this injury before, and there's like
quite strict protocols of what you follow and what you
can and can't do, and the progressions in that The
only thing is, like my mom was supposed to come
and help us, and then my dad ended up getting
a new knee in the beginning of July. So yeah,
(36:36):
and Rory was home from daycare all of July because
daycare was under construction, So July was a bit of
a whirlwind. I was taken Rory to the gym with
me when I needed to go to rehab. My neighbors
were watching, like he was just all over the place
for that month. But we figured it out and we
made it through July. Now he's back at daycare and
(36:56):
all is well during the day, and here we are
so I can talk to you guys because he's still
at daycare.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Does he like going to the gym? Is he good
at the gym? Like when I take Whalen to the gym,
it's like a liability. Harlan's okay, but whales so Whalen's four,
so maybe that's why. But I can't take him to
the gym with me.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Like sometimes he is, but my trainer's pretty good at
like holding on to him or playing with a ball
if he needs to. But also like we normally just
put Miss Rachel on the TV. Okay, give him snacks
and he's very food motivated and also very miss Rachel
motivated that that tends to work.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Him and Harlan would be best friends.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, I was gonna say the tumble track at your
gym pack is really the killer of all the focus.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah, there's like a giant trampoline. Yeah, and there's like
big that we use like balloon sometimes for things. So
it's like the trampoline balloon combo. He just goes right there.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Doesn't work, it's perfect. So obviously the studies behind how
to repair a knee are definitely greater than the studies
of female athletes and or hockey players specifically that come
back from a post part of injury, which is zer work.
By the way, for the listeners, there's zero support there.
So just being a mom that's given birth and then
(38:05):
skated that's crazy to me. But also it sounds like
you just had a renewed focus because it was more clear,
like coming off the postpartum is not there. Having a
baby is the most unclear thing in the entire world.
But as you go through it, you learn there's things
that you gather. People give you advice, They give you
good advice, and they give you sometimes really terrible advice.
What's the best advice that you have or havn't gotten
(38:27):
being a mom? Now?
Speaker 3 (38:30):
The best advice? I don't know. You guys got some
advice for me? I need your advice.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I think the thing we talk about most on this pod,
no matter who we're talking to and every walk of life,
is that it's imperfectly perfect, like you know, Like I
think that that's always something that we will have such
a hard time with is be like we we didn't
show up well as moms today and then have the
guilt that that's who we are as moms is and
that's not correct. So I always feel like when we
(38:59):
talk talk about this with people, what's the best advice
we have? What do you wish you could tell your
younger self in having a mom? You know, maybe yours was,
don't skate so soon, girl, like it hurts, call someone,
call your doctor. But I think it's I think it's
always like it's the balance of trying to be perfect
at something that you so desperately want to be perfect
at and then being okay, mom guilt, Yeah we're not
(39:21):
doing enough. For sure. You never feel like you are
no matter what you're doing you could be being the
best mom in the world and someone posts a picture
and they're doing it at a pumpkin patch and you're
doing it in an apple ordered and you're like, damn it,
the pumpkin patch is so much better, right, Like it's
the compare that we can't live the other week. Well
that's dang.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
I think I should start a mom support group. Like
my teammates are the best. But sometimes I'm like, people
just don't understand, you know what I mean, Like there's
just so much going on. It's so different, but it's
so like amazingly different. Like I always meet people and
I'm like, how is this person doing that? How's that
person doing that? Like people are looking at us like
how are they doing that? It's just everyone's experiences are
(40:03):
so like you pick up different things, you know, mm hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Do we have a mom on every team? We almost
have a mom on every team?
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yeah, we do.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Know. The babies, well, they're just taking over. And like
the thing is, they're female athletes. They're taking over and
the femal athletes, like it's not easy to do, and
if you're in a same sex FEMA couple, it's expensive
and so then there's like all these hurdles and then
the PA is rolling out all these incredible benefits, and
so it's almost like the natural progression is then for
(40:31):
like the moms, is to unite and then educate everybody
on what the benefits actually even are and how much
they should or shouldn't look at them.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
The benefits we have are actually pretty incredible. That's what
i'meric into other leagues, like like reproductive benefits like fertility
and things like.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
That way easier, Yeah, for moms to become moms.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
The last thing I want to kind of like wrap
on and ask is So this year was the most
incredible year for women's talking. The numbers were there, the
viewership was there, the on nice performance was there. Maddie
and I will lovingly call this the best hockey we've
ever seen or played like. It is truly the best.
So when was the moment that it like hit you
(41:09):
it's the future of the game. It's happening right now
and your son is watching you do it every day.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Oh, I don't know, it's hard to say, like the moment,
but the game when he got to walk in with
me and my mom knit him like a little tea
sweater with mom on the back. I thought that that
was so special, just like him kind of being in
my world more like normally he would just come to
the game with like my mom or my husband, but
like kind of getting to be involved more I thought
was really cool, and like getting to walk in with me.
(41:38):
So that was a super special moment. But I mean
at the beginning of every game, I kind of always
look up and find him in the crowd and find
my parents and see where he's sitting. I'd be sleeping already.
I think it was just so special to have him
there and to know, just like even though he won't
remember that, to be able to like show him pictures
and look back and be like you were also involved
(41:59):
in something that was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
That's awesome. And that's all we have today. Thank you
for listening.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I'm on you Packer, and I'm Madison Packer and this
is These packs Puck.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
These pax Puck is a production of Iheartwomen's Sports and
Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. It's hosted by us Madison
and Onya Packer. Emily Maronoff is our senior producer and
story editor. We're mixed and mastered by Behie Fraser, and
our executive producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz and Ali Perry.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.