December 31, 2024 • 34 mins
As 2024 wraps up, the Packers take a moment to reflect on a year like no other. From the groundbreaking inaugural season of the PWHL to the explosive growth of women’s sports, and the personal shifts following Madison’s retirement, it’s been a whirlwind. Madison and Anya look back on the highs and lows of the past year and share their resolutions, hopes, and dreams for 2025.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer and I'm Anya Packer. I'm
a recently retired pro hockey vet. I was a founding
member of the National Women's Hockey League, a pillar in
the PHF with the Riveters, and an inaugural member of
the PWHL Sirens.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
And I played two That's how Madison and I met,
but I stepped away to start our family.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Now we're married and moms to two awesome toddlers, ages
two and.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Four, and this is these packspot where we talk about
everything for professional women's athletes, to sports, to raising children
and all the messiness in between. Hey Anya, Hello Madison.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
So as we head into the new year, thought it
would make sense to look back on the start of
the season, what's ahead this season, and maybe talk about
some of our own New Year's resolutions. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Oh yeah, okay, this is fun.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
All right.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Well, since we're talking about it, we may as well
start with a little hockey hot take, don't you think.
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Hockey hot take.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
My hockey hot take is about the hockey season. I
think it's mostly about the rookies because I've been pretty
interested to see how they all adjust. But I think
that the strongest team, especially given what I've watched, given
what I've seen right now, is the Toronto Scepters. And
I think it's the same thing that happened last year.
They kind of start slow, they start to build, and
(01:27):
then they're going to go on an absolute tear'. That's
what I think.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I think Toronto looks good. I also think that we
have to keep in mind that Spooner is a still
been out. Yeah yeah, yeah, so I like that. I'm
impressed with Ottawa. I really like Carla McLeod as a coach.
I think that, even though maybe the production hasn't been
there for Sir Dacne yet, she's a really good hockey player.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
She's so good.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Just yeah, just every time she steps on the ice,
like she makes plays. I was talking with a reporter
might have been I and Kennedy actually about her the
other day, just and I couldn't agree with what he
was saying. More like, she's just her presence on the ice,
her composure with the puck, she makes the right choices. She's,
in my opinion, been probably the best player on the ice.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
You think so, I think, yeah, when I watch her,
But that's a hot take. I like that. I mean, listen,
I feel the same way about Phillia though.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, Philly's sick. I mean, every team has a player
that just like I don't know. I mean, it's it's
a league full of superstars, so the superstars I think
don't shine as bright. But Spooner's still out with her
knee injury. I think that that'll make a big difference
to Toronto once she's back and fully healthy. I think
that they have the time to give her the time.
Why not. Phillya has been unreal for six six.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Points on the season already for Philly is absolutely bonkers.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, and for people listening, we're recording this before Christmas,
so the stats and standings will have changed by the
time you're hearing it. But just for sake of conversation,
these are the stats as they stand now.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I mean, I just think, like, personally, I'm with you
on this r Dacne thing. I think she's incredible. She
has so many skills on and off the which I
really like to watch. I think Izzy Daniels for Toronto
is coming off of winning the Patty Kaz. She's a
strong skater, she's on a good line. I think you
know when Toronto gets their steam, because I think they
(03:13):
started off a little bit slow, and when they get
their steam, I think she's going to be a player
to watch. I think she's gonna climb on these stat
sheets and I think that one's going to be a
very dangerous player. But also, not to be remiss, I
think the rookies in Minnesota have been showing up. They've
been scoring early goals, which is what you want from
your rookies, but also not what Minnesota needed personally, you know,
(03:35):
in my opinion from the draft, I think defensively, when
they drafted Claire Thompson third not third round, third overall,
I thought that was an interesting pick for them because defensively,
you know, after they just won the Walter Cup, they
could use some help there. But I think as a
whole that team is strong. But their young rookies have
scored in the first couple of games, which I love
(03:57):
to see.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, I like Minnesota. I just think that you know
what you're gonna get with Minnesota, right, They're speedy, they
don't they don't like to be pushed around. Oh, they've
got a couple of physical defensemen. But I don't know.
I just like the creativity and the hockey IQ maybe
that you can just see it developing. I mean just
the way that you watch and the way that Phillyer
(04:18):
plays hockey, and when you watch her play, it's just
so pretty sort Dakne the same thing. Philly A and
Carpenter come on like it's just fun to watch. It's
pretty hockey. I think you would be hard pressed to
find a better duo, even in the NHL than those two,
just because they think the game so similarly, and they
are so skilled, and no one's really out there messing
with them, you know what I mean, Like, no one's
(04:39):
running Sarah Philia into the boards because just one it's
not necessary. Yeah, but I don't think you're gonna see
that because like I think that that's a big part
too of like, as they're bringing the physicality into the game,
you don't see that really on the men's side, And
when it happens like there's great exception, that's not the
point of the physicality in the game, you know, it's
it's it's the main get faster. It's to make it
(05:01):
more entertaining. So I think that she's just going to
continue to get more comfortable out there talking about Phillia.
She's gonna and I guess all the rookies, but Philia
is a little bit smaller and just the one that
I've watched most closely because I'm excited to see what
she does. I think she's transitioning really well, and I
think that she's just going to continue to be better
and better she gets more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Well, it's interesting you find the players that have had
national experience, and not because they're on the national team,
but I think the national teams for a long time
have been allowed to play this physical play. Those players
have an edge because it's not happening in the NCAA
right now. We talk about this all the time, but
I think the most important thing is a player with
a good low center of gravity that can take a
(05:41):
hit and continue to roll. And if you have the
ability to put a body on Sarah Phillia, Alex Carpenter,
Jesse Elder, it's that whole line. It's hard pressed that
you're going to knock one of them over and completely
throw off the flow of the game. It's just three
strong bodies that have a low center of gravity, that
understand how to maintain control the puck and in some
(06:02):
of the other rookies that are playing this year, they
don't have that luxury. So when you have somebody like,
let's just run down some of the people we've already
talked about, Eazy Daniels, Sir Dakney, like those players Clark Thompson,
they have national team experience where they've played physical hockey.
I think that's the barrier to entry in my mind,
is if you can play physical hockey, you are going
(06:22):
to be that much further along, that much stronger. If
you look at the stats and standings right now, it
goes like Frost Sirens, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Boston Fleet. None
of this shocks me, except, like I said, Toronto Scepters.
They've won a game, lost two games, but their goals
four goals against average have eight goals four to ten
(06:43):
goals against, which just screams to me. The beginning of
last year, it's just you know, Kristin Campbell needs to
get more comfortable, and when she does, I think that
team will excel well.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And remember they started last season without Spooner as well.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, they started last season without Spooner and Kristin Campbell
had a slow start, which who is exactly what's happening
this year, which I don't think is indicative of her
not being good, Like in Spoons not being there's a
huge problem. So I think all of that to say
my hockey hot take is with three games in, which
is definitely not enough to make a serious judgment call.
(07:16):
I think this is Toronto scepters year. To run it back.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I don't have a reply for that. I think it's
too early for me to pick a team. You're like, yeah,
I think that it iss No, I just I think
that that's I mean, that's confident of you. I would
that's a good pick. I just don't feel like i've
seen enough of it yet. Yeah, to make a decision,
it's only, like you said, it's only three games in.
I think it'll be you know, a little easier to
(07:41):
see what the path forward might look like after like
eight to ten games.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, I think there's a really strong likelihood that in
three more games we're saying something completely different.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It's just hard to judge a team out of the
gate because we I mean belabored the point now with Spooner,
but there's so many other players across the leagues that
are still out from summer training rookies that are adjusting,
like there's just so much that happens in the span
of the first five to ten games. I think that
after teams have those games under their belt, you'll start
to see a little bit clearer picture of how the
(08:13):
season is going to go. The PWHL introduced a rule
last season that was called the Gold Plan that continues
to create and foster a competitive environment because typically in
pro sports, the team that finishes last in the standings
gets the first round pick. Right, yeah, dead PWHL. Yeah.
So the PWHL and Jana Hafford were like, listen, we
want to do something that brings that competitiveness all season long.
(08:37):
So for a way to do that and keep the
fans engaged. Once a team is eliminated from the playoff race,
like a different kind of competition or race begins where
the last two spots are competing against each other. Whoever
finishes with a better record or point ratio gets the
first round pick. That's what happened with New York last year,
and that's how New York ended up a filly.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
It stops people from just throwing the season because there's
nothing worse when your team gets eliminated from the playoffs
to just watch pointless hockey or sports. I guess in general,
to your point, it's not pointless because you're fighting to
get the number one draft pick. I'm with you. I
think that role was actually incredible and also made every
(09:18):
single game, even if you weren't rooting for a championship,
you were rooting for number one, and sometimes the likeness
of whomever will be drafted number one is worth it.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah. I just think it's another way to keep fans
engaged and to just diversify what we're doing with women's hockey.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I mean, it's been really fun. You know. We'll put
ice on that, no pun intended. I want to kind
of flip over to this back. We're heading into the
year end. Before we talk our resolutions, let's talk about
our feelings. How you feeling.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I'm good, How are you?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I'm all right? One to one hundred. I would say,
I'm actually really excited for Christmas. I think I did
a lightful Christmas shop this year, and I know you're
not excited about that, but I think I met it
like I'm like a seventy five. I got to wrap
a bunch of stuff, which is taking me down. I
like to wrap, but it's just overwhelming me. But I
feel good. I met a seventy five, all.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Right, I like that. I'm somewhere in the thirties. I
didn't sleep great last night.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
You woke me up. I can't even make this up.
I had fallen asleep. I was like delightfully asleep, like
I actually felt good. You woke me up to be like,
what's what's happening? I was like, I don't know. I
don't know what you're talking about. Like three you when
I started scrambling all around the room, you were you
did not have a good sleep.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I couldn't fall asleep. And then I kept hearing noises
and it was snowing last night. And then Harlan made
a weird sound in her crib and then like I
didn't know if she was moving, and then her feet
were straight up in the air. At one point. Yeah,
when I opened the nana and I it scared me.
And then I couldn't fall back asleep. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I finally fell asleep on for you. Oh, thank goodness,
what a nice sleep. Well that stinks. I'm so I together,
we do make a hundred. So I took the kids
to school. I'm happy to pick them up. You can
spend your time on you and energy on you, which
seems like it's very low in the first place.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I am going to go to a boxing class later.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I am going to improve my mood by beating up
a bag. Yeah, and feeling amazing after all.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah. I think it's just adjusting still to the new normal,
probably or I don't know what our normal is right now.
It's just adjusting. It's a hard adjustment period.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
It's a weird time to adjust too, because like no
one is making moves in the holiday season, and from
when you retire to even like two and through the
new year, I just feel like everything will feel up
in the air.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
It's also like weirdly lovely. You just go from being
around people like all day every day to being around
no one, you know what I mean. And it's like
I'm trying to figure out stuff to go do, but
most people are working in offices or it's just a
weird adjustment, and like the team's not here anymore. The
team is in Jersey. So even like if I wanted
(12:06):
to hang out with former teammates or whatever, it's like,
so we went and had dinner with Jaguere and her
wife the other night, but it's like an hour away. Yeah,
So it's just a weird like, I think, an even
more isolating feeling and process because we don't have family here.
You're super busy with work. All of our friends aren't
really around here, the ones that are also super busy
(12:27):
or still playing or still working whatever. It's just a
weird like pan, it's a weird middle.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I'm not gonna lie. I get it for you. I
understand why it feels like that. And I think the
other thing too, Like when I retired, to your point,
everyone still lived here. I was still on the PA.
I was still like I was working, right, I was
doing my other job, but I still had that too
many things to do, not enough hours in the day.
And now that everything is switched to be full full time,
(12:54):
you had too many things to do, not enough hours
in the day for so long, and then now that's
really pivoted and shifted. And like I said, I think
the holidays stop people from being like, here's all these opportunities,
and here's all this work that needs to get done.
Everyone's like, I don't want to work. It's the holidays.
So I get that for you. I always try to
give you the love and support you need, and then
(13:14):
sometimes I think it makes it worse because you're like, well,
I don't want to hang out with you, girl. You're like,
you're fine, stay over there and we'll we'll be all right.
So heard, I'm thinking about you. We'll get the thirty
to at least forty. You think we can get there?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Oo, well, I like that. That's amazing. Now let's think
in the perspective of feeling better, more hopeful things are
going to be awesome. Let's go to the perspective of
(13:50):
our New Year's resolutions. Do you have any resolutions, babe?
I don't think I've written down a New Year's resolution
since pre children, because my is always to just like
keep them alive, do good things. But I like this idea.
Let's talk about our resolutions. What are your resolutions?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
So? I think the two biggest ones for me are
to focus on one living in positivity, so with the
kids and just with myself, like focusing on trying to
be more positive and optimistic heading into what might feel
(14:28):
like a very scary and uncertain environments or.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
In a somber headspace.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, I think just trying to maintain positivity.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yep, I like that not easy to do, by the way.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
And my second one maybe right now, feels like relevant
particularly to the hockey community or the work that I
want to do in hockey, but I think it's just
applicable everywhere. Yeah, creating space for people, I think is
really important.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Oh my gosh, Yeah, I think that, Like I want
to lose ten pounds, yours are like I want to
change the world, but I want to be happier. It's
so nice.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Well, I just I think I've felt like the biggest
thing I've learned since retiring, and like sitting in this
like figuring out what am I going to do next?
It's just a it is a very hopeless like you
want to be proud of everything that you've done and
you want to feel like you've made a difference. And
like for me, I feel like I was just getting
started and doing that and now what am I supposed
(15:31):
to do? But what I also learned is that that
part of what I was doing was so much more
important than anything else, Like the hockey was just a
vehicle to have that opportunity, right, And so I think
for me it's important to continue to create space and
make myself as big as I possibly can in spaces
that I enter into, because I think that that's important
(15:55):
to create space for other people and to recognize other
people's experience or other people's lack of ability to or
maybe motivation to ask for what they need, or you
don't even trying to say, Like.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I get what you're saying. I think it's easy when you,
when you're somebody that has like an unapologetically loud presence,
taking up as much base as you possibly can makes
room for everyone else behind you. I understand that one
hundred percent, mostly because I always say this, like I
look to be the person that I wish I had
when I was younger and I needed somebody to take
(16:29):
up space for me. And so I look at you
and myself even when we go to events, or when
we go talk to kids, or we go do any
of the things that we're asked to do on a
daily basis, like how would this shadow that is behind
us have made room for me to walk behind us
like little me? And so I get that in a
thousand percent. I'm gonna have to mentally quickly rewrite my
(16:52):
resolutions because mine are not nearly as nice or I
guess externally nice as yours are, but I love that
for you. I think I think in this like post
playing transition, if you could find things that make you
ten percent better, like ten percent interesting even, and if
that's like five different things, just pouring gas on them
(17:15):
and figuring out when that fire burns, if it's even
remotely interesting to you, and if you like it, then
keep going, and if you don't, you could just pivot.
Like I think that's the thing that I want you
to believe about yourself, is that you have the ability
to do something, do it well, and then say, yamp,
this doesn't fill my cup, I'm not doing it anymore,
and do something else. Like that's very true for you.
(17:37):
You can do all those things.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
What about you want? What are you looking forward to
this year?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I think first and foremost, which again which is why
I feel like I need to like redraft mind, but
I really want to go skiing with the kids. I'm
obsessed with the fact that for our whole lives, our
whole lives, as we've known each other, we've been professional
athletes and then I stepped away, but then you remained
a professional athlete, and we spend so many times not
doing things with our kids because contractually, your body is
(18:06):
your work and we can't do them. And so whether
that be skiing and snowboarding to being like any of
the winter things that we've never been able to do
because you've been on contract and like cannot risk your
physical form. I want to do that. That sounds really
fun to me and also sounds like something we can
start habitually getting into that isn't going to hockey games,
(18:26):
being in a rink like all those things. So that's
my first again, not changing the world and not having
a positive outlick truly just being very selfish, like we
should have like talked about these before. So that's one,
and then two, I guess kind of goes along with
what you're saying. But it's a lot to do with
this podcast. I feel like I am just finding a
way to re enter women's sports in a meaningful way
(18:49):
and show up in a meaningful way. And for a while,
because of our lives and the structure, like I had
to just kind of like go to work, pick up
the kids, be the like person that supports all the things.
Now I can re enter in a meaningful way. That's
either this podcast or the events that we do or
collaborating on things for you, and that's been really fun.
(19:12):
So as much as I can fill that cup reasonably,
I'm excited to do that.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I think those are good.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, women's sports. I mean the WNBA is the most
grown brand in twenty twenty four, Like I'll cross all brands,
And that is the most crazane thing I've ever heard
in my whole life. It's a fact and it's amazing.
But also can you believe that? Yeah, that's wild, It's
so crazy. I'm obsessed with it.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
It makes sense, though, I mean, like, look at all
the hype and all the success and all the numbers.
I mean, it's been incredible. And because of that, look
at all the success that other women's sports i e.
The PWHL are having in twenty twenty four. Yes, but
there had to have been a massive shift in like
strategy and decision making for what has happened with the
(19:56):
WNBA and women's sports to happen.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
I don't think there was a shift. I think it
just continued to go on and Caitlyn Clark came into
the league.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I don't disagree with it, Like I all the credits
to Kaitlyn Clark, but it was happening before that as well. Yes,
like the movement in the moment, it was all compiling,
and yeah, Kaitlyn Clark blew it up. But like that
almost feels too simple, like there have been all of
these players that like, I don't know, it just it
(20:26):
doesn't seem as simple as just like, oh, well, Caitlyn Clark, Like.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
The growth of the WNBA is not solely and exclusively
attributed to Kitlin Clark coming to play in it. I agree. Now,
if you take the fact that Nil social media, her
gameplay and everything, it makes sense that then you were
able to use the short form content, the video, the app,
all the things that are great about the WNBA to
(20:50):
absolutely scale. So it's like you brought Michael Jordan, who
was an incredible basketball player, but Michael Jordan with Nike,
with all the things that he brought to the game,
with the fun, the viewership, the obsession that Michael Jordan
brought to the NBA, and then put him in the NBA,
and the NBA literally took off the second Michael Jordan came.
And it wasn't because of him, but it was you
(21:13):
know what I'm saying, like he was the person that
unlocked the rest of the stories that then made you
become a die hard Bulls fan or a die hard
Celtics fan because the NBA was now cool and you're
from Boston. Like all these things aren't because of him,
but he is the catalyst of And I think that
Angel Reese Caitlin Clark having a fight in that game
(21:36):
and those National Championship games. I think that that was
the catalyst of drama and salacious storytelling. And then that
salacious storytelling comes with them when they both get drafted.
The draft blew up. The WNBA app is up two
hundred and fifty two percent year over year on monthly
active users. I mean, people are flocking to come see
this all the content that are coming from the WNBA.
(21:59):
So I definitely agree that it's crazy. But I think
you can point to this rookie class as the catalyst
for success. I think that's fair.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, I would, I I would agree with that. And
I think so. Kaitlyn Clark was Time Magazine Sports one
of the Year right and came out. I thought that
there was an incredible article, Like I thought that everything
that she said. I think sometimes when people come out
and say things that like give credit where credit is due.
People have a hard time with it because it may
(22:31):
seem disingenuine. But like, I thought that what Kaitlyn Clark
said was perfect, and I thought she hit the nail
right on the head. And I think that if you're
a white person in twenty twenty four, pretending like white
privilege isn't a thing, like, it's not a knock, Like
I don't hate men, but men have inherently had more opportunity.
That's just reality, Like, and the longer we go on, like,
(22:53):
the more opportunity. Hopefully hopefully we can start going forward
again instead of backwards, but hopefully women will have more opportunity,
and like, right, could we slowly level the playing field
for everyone? But I thought that what Kaitlyn Clark said
was phenomenal. And I think that maybe it came across
or is getting picked apart by certain people, Like but
what was she supposed to say? I mean, I think
(23:14):
that there was opportunity for the WNBA to get more
involved when you were having some of the issues with
the fans, et cetera. Right, and like that was a
separate issue. But I don't think that Kaitlyn Clark has
ever thought that she wasn't getting opportunity because of the
league being built on the backs of other women. And
I think that she recognizes fully like that she came
in at the right, you know what I mean, like
all of those things, and I think that what she
(23:36):
did was incredible when she came out and said, yeah,
this is great, but like, let's be serious, I have
had more opportunity and more X, Y and Z because
of how I look. And I think that that takes
a lot of guts.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I totally agree with you. And you know what, it
actually isn't the first time a women's basketball player has
come out and said this exact sentiment. Paige Becker's did
the exact same thing. I think she won an SB
for Player of the Year or something to that effect,
and she got up on the stage and she said
something along the same lines. I am white. I am
going to get the camera shoved in my face, but
(24:10):
this is a sport predominantly built by black women, and
I have the privilege of playing it alongside them, something
to that effect. And I think in twenty twenty five,
the energy we should bring in all spaces is that
of radical transparency, of what is real and not real.
It is one hundred percent real, then Caitlin Clark is
(24:32):
an incredible asset to women's basketball whilst also being one
hundred percent real that she can attribute all of that
to the work of countless black women who will never
get their face on the Times magazine front cover. Let's
do that more. And I feel the same way in
every space. And if we can do that, that is
your original, like your og point on what your resolution
(24:54):
is is to be like widely good. And if you
can bring loud goodness into twenty twenty five, you create
space for good for everybody else. I'm not going to
change either of mine because I like mine as well,
but I'm with you. I think in twenty twenty five
we should all just be radically good.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
We've talked a little bit about twenty twenty five. Let's
look back quickly for twenty twenty four. So in the
packer house we do check ins, but we also do
high and low. Ooh, pit, cover a pit and tit.
So what is your high? Looking back quickly, what's your
high from twenty twenty four? And either a low or
(25:47):
a lesson that you're going to carry in the twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
It's really hard because I will say it felt like
a repeat of my lifetime. Tit, but my lifetime. Both
of these two highs feel like a repeat of one another.
But I will say it because I think it is
extremely important. Going to the first game in the Peterhl
(26:12):
that you were playing. We were in Toronto, it was packed,
There was like people standing everywhere. We got these crazy
bracelets that lit up, like it was seeing the new
league in its first game, and like watching it happen
felt like a culmination of all of the years of
our work that have been honestly thankless and really really hard.
(26:35):
It felt like that was coming to a head. It
reminds me of the first game we played in Connecticut,
actually Riveters versus Connecticut, and it was the first game
we were ever paid to play. It was the first
game we were ever standing on the ice receiving a paycheck,
no matter how big or small. And in both of
those moments, in the second actually more than the first,
(26:56):
because the first we just tried out made the team
and we got all the shine, and the second it
felt like all the work meant something, and I just
I don't know that that was a big high for
me and then.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
My low low or a lesson.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
The lesson that I'm going to take is that every
single time I move in a way that I don't
appreciate about myself or I think that I haven't shown
up as good as I can, I can always, always
always change it. Whether I can't change the past, but
I can change my mindset moving forward. I really go
back to that conversation that I had with Waylan in
(27:34):
his room the other day where he told me I
was a bad mommy and because I yelled at him
because he wasn't going to sleep, and I sat down
with him in that moment because I felt awful and
I wanted to keep yelling obviously that's that's easier for
my lack of emotional maturity, but I didn't. I sat
down and I said, I'm sorry, Mommy can do bad things,
(27:55):
but that doesn't make me a bad mommy. That wasn't nice,
And can I hug you? And he said no? And
that hurt because you just want him to immediately accept
your apology, as I want you to immediately accept my
apology when I apologize, because it's hard for me to
do because I'm stubborn. But in that moment, he showed
me that I sometimes have to sit in that and
(28:17):
I you know, we stayed there for twenty five minutes
and then he gave me a hug and he fell asleep.
Like I can do a bad thing, it doesn't make
me a bad person. I'm gonna take that energy into
twenty twenty five. How about you? What was your start
with your lesson and then let's end with something happy.
So start with your lesson and then we'll go we'll
go elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So for me, my lesson, I guess it wasn't a
lesson from this year, but something I maybe realized in
this year. So my uncle Alex Alex Gage passed away
earlier this year, and he was like the most brilliant
person ever. If you're listening, look him up. Alex Gage.
He's credited with just like a lot of work and
(28:54):
software at innovation in the political and polling space. Really
really brilliant guy. But also just like super quirky, wore
yellow crocs, like I was a kid that just constantly
chased his shadow. And we went to his celebration of
life a few months ago and I said a few
things and like preparing for that and doing that, I
(29:14):
learned that obviously he was someone that I really looked
up to as a kid and whatever, but it's not
until you like look back on someone right, that you realize,
I think, the true impact that they've had on you.
And in doing that with my uncle, it made me
realize that no matter how big or small the impact
that you make, the impact that you have on people
(29:37):
is hugely important, and your ability to have influence over
people is important. So that kind of comes into my
like one of my resolutions is to live in positivity,
but because we have such an ability to make an
impact on people and leave an impression in a positive way,
so I guess through loss, I learned that the most
(29:57):
important thing that you can do in life is make
a difference in the life of someone else, particularly the
lives of children, right, And that's something that I think
that he did really well, And so that's something that
I want to focus on, both with my kids, with
other kids, with people in general. Is just trying to
make an impact and have people learn my story and
understand my perspective and in turn respectfully learn and understand theirs.
(30:21):
And I think that that can hopefully make the world
a little better in kinder place.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
I like that lesson now tell us the high.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
So mine's kind of weird. But I think my high
was training camp this year. Yeah, training camp, just because
I trained so hard all summer, and I think that
was probably the hardest I've ever worked in my thirty
year career of playing hockey, nine years of playing professionally,
(30:54):
four years of college, national team whatever. Like I never
worked so hard for something, and even though the end
result was different from what I was preparing for, I
guess the body of work and the like my performance
and like my ability to be proud of myself maybe
(31:14):
like I just proved to myself that I can do
hard things and that I can do anything I put
my mind to because I did it. And I think
most people like what They're like, oh, you're not playing,
so what does that mean? Like I had certain goals
for testing that I think most people thought were unreachable maybe,
and I slapped it in the face. So for me,
like it just felt really good to know that everything
(31:38):
I was working towards doing and the things that I
thought were really hard and near impossible, I did And
I was proud of myself for that, and it felt
really really good because we both know everything that went
into the summer and everyone sacrificed a lot for me
to be able to do that. And so from a
testing perspective, just to be able to go into camp
and do what I did, like that felt really good.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Real greater sense of achievement than pride in yourself, right,
Like that's not seeking the validation from anybody, it's just
being proud of yourself, which is not an easy thing
to do as an athlete.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, and so for me, that felt really good.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
On that note, we finished the year stronger than ever,
proud of ourselves, with strong life lessons. The hockeys, it's
best it's ever been. Women's sports is on the rise.
We've covered all the things that really speak to our soul.
So without further ado, go watch women's sports. Watch Unrivaled,
watch the PWHL, Watch League One Volleyball, Watch Major League
pick a Ball. I mean I could literally keep running leagues,
(32:36):
watch the WLL like, watch all of these women's sports
that are now on the rise. Approach twenty twenty five
with radical goodness like the Packer family. Maybe go skiing
like I would like to do. All of the world
is in front of us and we can do anything.
I am so thankful that we have come up with
a gang of people that now listen to our pod,
that listen to you and I ramble about nothing. It's
(32:58):
been a true gift and we head into twenty five
with nothing but goodness in our hearts. So thanks, pack,
I appreciated everything you said today.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah, and for those who might be feeling more like
me this holiday season, that's okay. The world is sometimes happy,
sometimes sad. Holidays are different for everybody. But I think
as I'm navigating kind of what I'm going through in retirement,
and just like it's weird to feel like not happy
(33:27):
during a super happy time. I don't know, it's a
weird swing of emotions and like everything is lit up
and bows and happy and like. So for people who
maybe don't necessarily feel the same way the Christmas tree looks,
I empathize with you. But also you're a huge part
of what's to come in twenty twenty five, so let's
(33:49):
get through it together.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yes, melancholy can be felt, and as we move out
of it, we head into twenty twenty five full of hope,
happiness and love. Love all right, well until next time,
Mother Puckers. We start the new year with some great guests,
some great conversations, some more hockey hot takes, and all around,
(34:11):
have a great year. We'll see you soon. These packspuck
is a production of iHeart Women's Sports in Deep Blue
Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
It's hosted by Us Madison and Anya Packer. Emily Meronoff
is our awesome senior producer and story editor. We were
mixed and mastered by Mary Doo.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Our executive producers.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
And Ali Perry. I do think mother Puckers is the
only thing we can call our fans a mother pucker
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer and I'm Anya Packer. I'm
a recently retired pro hockey vet. I was a founding
member of the National Women's Hockey League, a pillar in
the PHF with the Riveters, and an inaugural member of
the PWHL Sirens.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
And I played two That's how Madison and I met,
but I stepped away to start our family.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Now we're married and moms to two awesome toddlers, ages
two and.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Four, and this is these packspot where we talk about
everything for professional women's athletes, to sports, to raising children
and all the messiness in between. Hey Anya, Hello Madison.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
So as we head into the new year, thought it
would make sense to look back on the start of
the season, what's ahead this season, and maybe talk about
some of our own New Year's resolutions. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Oh yeah, okay, this is fun.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
All right.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Well, since we're talking about it, we may as well
start with a little hockey hot take, don't you think.
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Hockey hot take.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
My hockey hot take is about the hockey season. I
think it's mostly about the rookies because I've been pretty
interested to see how they all adjust. But I think
that the strongest team, especially given what I've watched, given
what I've seen right now, is the Toronto Scepters. And
I think it's the same thing that happened last year.
They kind of start slow, they start to build, and
(01:27):
then they're going to go on an absolute tear'. That's
what I think.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I think Toronto looks good. I also think that we
have to keep in mind that Spooner is a still
been out. Yeah yeah, yeah, so I like that. I'm
impressed with Ottawa. I really like Carla McLeod as a coach.
I think that, even though maybe the production hasn't been
there for Sir Dacne yet, she's a really good hockey player.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
She's so good.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Just yeah, just every time she steps on the ice,
like she makes plays. I was talking with a reporter
might have been I and Kennedy actually about her the
other day, just and I couldn't agree with what he
was saying. More like, she's just her presence on the ice,
her composure with the puck, she makes the right choices. She's,
in my opinion, been probably the best player on the ice.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
You think so, I think, yeah, when I watch her,
But that's a hot take. I like that. I mean, listen,
I feel the same way about Phillia though.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, Philly's sick. I mean, every team has a player
that just like I don't know. I mean, it's it's
a league full of superstars, so the superstars I think
don't shine as bright. But Spooner's still out with her
knee injury. I think that that'll make a big difference
to Toronto once she's back and fully healthy. I think
that they have the time to give her the time.
Why not. Phillya has been unreal for six six.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Points on the season already for Philly is absolutely bonkers.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, and for people listening, we're recording this before Christmas,
so the stats and standings will have changed by the
time you're hearing it. But just for sake of conversation,
these are the stats as they stand now.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I mean, I just think, like, personally, I'm with you
on this r Dacne thing. I think she's incredible. She
has so many skills on and off the which I
really like to watch. I think Izzy Daniels for Toronto
is coming off of winning the Patty Kaz. She's a
strong skater, she's on a good line. I think you
know when Toronto gets their steam, because I think they
(03:13):
started off a little bit slow, and when they get
their steam, I think she's going to be a player
to watch. I think she's gonna climb on these stat
sheets and I think that one's going to be a
very dangerous player. But also, not to be remiss, I
think the rookies in Minnesota have been showing up. They've
been scoring early goals, which is what you want from
your rookies, but also not what Minnesota needed personally, you know,
(03:35):
in my opinion from the draft, I think defensively, when
they drafted Claire Thompson third not third round, third overall,
I thought that was an interesting pick for them because defensively,
you know, after they just won the Walter Cup, they
could use some help there. But I think as a
whole that team is strong. But their young rookies have
scored in the first couple of games, which I love
(03:57):
to see.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, I like Minnesota. I just think that you know
what you're gonna get with Minnesota, right, They're speedy, they
don't they don't like to be pushed around. Oh, they've
got a couple of physical defensemen. But I don't know.
I just like the creativity and the hockey IQ maybe
that you can just see it developing. I mean just
the way that you watch and the way that Phillyer
(04:18):
plays hockey, and when you watch her play, it's just
so pretty sort Dakne the same thing. Philly A and
Carpenter come on like it's just fun to watch. It's
pretty hockey. I think you would be hard pressed to
find a better duo, even in the NHL than those two,
just because they think the game so similarly, and they
are so skilled, and no one's really out there messing
with them, you know what I mean, Like, no one's
(04:39):
running Sarah Philia into the boards because just one it's
not necessary. Yeah, but I don't think you're gonna see
that because like I think that that's a big part
too of like, as they're bringing the physicality into the game,
you don't see that really on the men's side, And
when it happens like there's great exception, that's not the
point of the physicality in the game, you know, it's
it's it's the main get faster. It's to make it
(05:01):
more entertaining. So I think that she's just going to
continue to get more comfortable out there talking about Phillia.
She's gonna and I guess all the rookies, but Philia
is a little bit smaller and just the one that
I've watched most closely because I'm excited to see what
she does. I think she's transitioning really well, and I
think that she's just going to continue to be better
and better she gets more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Well, it's interesting you find the players that have had
national experience, and not because they're on the national team,
but I think the national teams for a long time
have been allowed to play this physical play. Those players
have an edge because it's not happening in the NCAA
right now. We talk about this all the time, but
I think the most important thing is a player with
a good low center of gravity that can take a
(05:41):
hit and continue to roll. And if you have the
ability to put a body on Sarah Phillia, Alex Carpenter,
Jesse Elder, it's that whole line. It's hard pressed that
you're going to knock one of them over and completely
throw off the flow of the game. It's just three
strong bodies that have a low center of gravity, that
understand how to maintain control the puck and in some
(06:02):
of the other rookies that are playing this year, they
don't have that luxury. So when you have somebody like,
let's just run down some of the people we've already
talked about, Eazy Daniels, Sir Dakney, like those players Clark Thompson,
they have national team experience where they've played physical hockey.
I think that's the barrier to entry in my mind,
is if you can play physical hockey, you are going
(06:22):
to be that much further along, that much stronger. If
you look at the stats and standings right now, it
goes like Frost Sirens, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Boston Fleet. None
of this shocks me, except, like I said, Toronto Scepters.
They've won a game, lost two games, but their goals
four goals against average have eight goals four to ten
(06:43):
goals against, which just screams to me. The beginning of
last year, it's just you know, Kristin Campbell needs to
get more comfortable, and when she does, I think that
team will excel well.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And remember they started last season without Spooner as well.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, they started last season without Spooner and Kristin Campbell
had a slow start, which who is exactly what's happening
this year, which I don't think is indicative of her
not being good, Like in Spoons not being there's a
huge problem. So I think all of that to say
my hockey hot take is with three games in, which
is definitely not enough to make a serious judgment call.
(07:16):
I think this is Toronto scepters year. To run it back.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I don't have a reply for that. I think it's
too early for me to pick a team. You're like, yeah,
I think that it iss No, I just I think
that that's I mean, that's confident of you. I would
that's a good pick. I just don't feel like i've
seen enough of it yet. Yeah, to make a decision,
it's only, like you said, it's only three games in.
I think it'll be you know, a little easier to
(07:41):
see what the path forward might look like after like
eight to ten games.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, I think there's a really strong likelihood that in
three more games we're saying something completely different.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It's just hard to judge a team out of the
gate because we I mean belabored the point now with Spooner,
but there's so many other players across the leagues that
are still out from summer training rookies that are adjusting,
like there's just so much that happens in the span
of the first five to ten games. I think that
after teams have those games under their belt, you'll start
to see a little bit clearer picture of how the
(08:13):
season is going to go. The PWHL introduced a rule
last season that was called the Gold Plan that continues
to create and foster a competitive environment because typically in
pro sports, the team that finishes last in the standings
gets the first round pick. Right, yeah, dead PWHL. Yeah.
So the PWHL and Jana Hafford were like, listen, we
want to do something that brings that competitiveness all season long.
(08:37):
So for a way to do that and keep the
fans engaged. Once a team is eliminated from the playoff race,
like a different kind of competition or race begins where
the last two spots are competing against each other. Whoever
finishes with a better record or point ratio gets the
first round pick. That's what happened with New York last year,
and that's how New York ended up a filly.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
It stops people from just throwing the season because there's
nothing worse when your team gets eliminated from the playoffs
to just watch pointless hockey or sports. I guess in general,
to your point, it's not pointless because you're fighting to
get the number one draft pick. I'm with you. I
think that role was actually incredible and also made every
(09:18):
single game, even if you weren't rooting for a championship,
you were rooting for number one, and sometimes the likeness
of whomever will be drafted number one is worth it.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah. I just think it's another way to keep fans
engaged and to just diversify what we're doing with women's hockey.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I mean, it's been really fun. You know. We'll put
ice on that, no pun intended. I want to kind
of flip over to this back. We're heading into the
year end. Before we talk our resolutions, let's talk about
our feelings. How you feeling.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I'm good, How are you?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I'm all right? One to one hundred. I would say,
I'm actually really excited for Christmas. I think I did
a lightful Christmas shop this year, and I know you're
not excited about that, but I think I met it
like I'm like a seventy five. I got to wrap
a bunch of stuff, which is taking me down. I
like to wrap, but it's just overwhelming me. But I
feel good. I met a seventy five, all.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Right, I like that. I'm somewhere in the thirties. I
didn't sleep great last night.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
You woke me up. I can't even make this up.
I had fallen asleep. I was like delightfully asleep, like
I actually felt good. You woke me up to be like,
what's what's happening? I was like, I don't know. I
don't know what you're talking about. Like three you when
I started scrambling all around the room, you were you
did not have a good sleep.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I couldn't fall asleep. And then I kept hearing noises
and it was snowing last night. And then Harlan made
a weird sound in her crib and then like I
didn't know if she was moving, and then her feet
were straight up in the air. At one point. Yeah,
when I opened the nana and I it scared me.
And then I couldn't fall back asleep. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I finally fell asleep on for you. Oh, thank goodness,
what a nice sleep. Well that stinks. I'm so I together,
we do make a hundred. So I took the kids
to school. I'm happy to pick them up. You can
spend your time on you and energy on you, which
seems like it's very low in the first place.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I am going to go to a boxing class later.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I am going to improve my mood by beating up
a bag. Yeah, and feeling amazing after all.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah. I think it's just adjusting still to the new normal,
probably or I don't know what our normal is right now.
It's just adjusting. It's a hard adjustment period.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
It's a weird time to adjust too, because like no
one is making moves in the holiday season, and from
when you retire to even like two and through the
new year, I just feel like everything will feel up
in the air.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
It's also like weirdly lovely. You just go from being
around people like all day every day to being around
no one, you know what I mean. And it's like
I'm trying to figure out stuff to go do, but
most people are working in offices or it's just a
weird adjustment, and like the team's not here anymore. The
team is in Jersey. So even like if I wanted
(12:06):
to hang out with former teammates or whatever, it's like,
so we went and had dinner with Jaguere and her
wife the other night, but it's like an hour away. Yeah,
So it's just a weird like, I think, an even
more isolating feeling and process because we don't have family here.
You're super busy with work. All of our friends aren't
really around here, the ones that are also super busy
(12:27):
or still playing or still working whatever. It's just a
weird like pan, it's a weird middle.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I'm not gonna lie. I get it for you. I
understand why it feels like that. And I think the
other thing too, Like when I retired, to your point,
everyone still lived here. I was still on the PA.
I was still like I was working, right, I was
doing my other job, but I still had that too
many things to do, not enough hours in the day.
And now that everything is switched to be full full time,
(12:54):
you had too many things to do, not enough hours
in the day for so long, and then now that's
really pivoted and shifted. And like I said, I think
the holidays stop people from being like, here's all these opportunities,
and here's all this work that needs to get done.
Everyone's like, I don't want to work. It's the holidays.
So I get that for you. I always try to
give you the love and support you need, and then
(13:14):
sometimes I think it makes it worse because you're like, well,
I don't want to hang out with you, girl. You're like,
you're fine, stay over there and we'll we'll be all right.
So heard, I'm thinking about you. We'll get the thirty
to at least forty. You think we can get there?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Oo, well, I like that. That's amazing. Now let's think
in the perspective of feeling better, more hopeful things are
going to be awesome. Let's go to the perspective of
(13:50):
our New Year's resolutions. Do you have any resolutions, babe?
I don't think I've written down a New Year's resolution
since pre children, because my is always to just like
keep them alive, do good things. But I like this idea.
Let's talk about our resolutions. What are your resolutions?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
So? I think the two biggest ones for me are
to focus on one living in positivity, so with the
kids and just with myself, like focusing on trying to
be more positive and optimistic heading into what might feel
(14:28):
like a very scary and uncertain environments or.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
In a somber headspace.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, I think just trying to maintain positivity.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yep, I like that not easy to do, by the way.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
And my second one maybe right now, feels like relevant
particularly to the hockey community or the work that I
want to do in hockey, but I think it's just
applicable everywhere. Yeah, creating space for people, I think is
really important.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Oh my gosh, Yeah, I think that, Like I want
to lose ten pounds, yours are like I want to
change the world, but I want to be happier. It's
so nice.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Well, I just I think I've felt like the biggest
thing I've learned since retiring, and like sitting in this
like figuring out what am I going to do next?
It's just a it is a very hopeless like you
want to be proud of everything that you've done and
you want to feel like you've made a difference. And
like for me, I feel like I was just getting
started and doing that and now what am I supposed
(15:31):
to do? But what I also learned is that that
part of what I was doing was so much more
important than anything else, Like the hockey was just a
vehicle to have that opportunity, right, And so I think
for me it's important to continue to create space and
make myself as big as I possibly can in spaces
that I enter into, because I think that that's important
(15:55):
to create space for other people and to recognize other
people's experience or other people's lack of ability to or
maybe motivation to ask for what they need, or you
don't even trying to say, Like.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I get what you're saying. I think it's easy when you,
when you're somebody that has like an unapologetically loud presence,
taking up as much base as you possibly can makes
room for everyone else behind you. I understand that one
hundred percent, mostly because I always say this, like I
look to be the person that I wish I had
when I was younger and I needed somebody to take
(16:29):
up space for me. And so I look at you
and myself even when we go to events, or when
we go talk to kids, or we go do any
of the things that we're asked to do on a
daily basis, like how would this shadow that is behind
us have made room for me to walk behind us
like little me? And so I get that in a
thousand percent. I'm gonna have to mentally quickly rewrite my
(16:52):
resolutions because mine are not nearly as nice or I
guess externally nice as yours are, but I love that
for you. I think I think in this like post
playing transition, if you could find things that make you
ten percent better, like ten percent interesting even, and if
that's like five different things, just pouring gas on them
(17:15):
and figuring out when that fire burns, if it's even
remotely interesting to you, and if you like it, then
keep going, and if you don't, you could just pivot.
Like I think that's the thing that I want you
to believe about yourself, is that you have the ability
to do something, do it well, and then say, yamp,
this doesn't fill my cup, I'm not doing it anymore,
and do something else. Like that's very true for you.
(17:37):
You can do all those things.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
What about you want? What are you looking forward to
this year?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I think first and foremost, which again which is why
I feel like I need to like redraft mind, but
I really want to go skiing with the kids. I'm
obsessed with the fact that for our whole lives, our
whole lives, as we've known each other, we've been professional
athletes and then I stepped away, but then you remained
a professional athlete, and we spend so many times not
doing things with our kids because contractually, your body is
(18:06):
your work and we can't do them. And so whether
that be skiing and snowboarding to being like any of
the winter things that we've never been able to do
because you've been on contract and like cannot risk your
physical form. I want to do that. That sounds really
fun to me and also sounds like something we can
start habitually getting into that isn't going to hockey games,
(18:26):
being in a rink like all those things. So that's
my first again, not changing the world and not having
a positive outlick truly just being very selfish, like we
should have like talked about these before. So that's one,
and then two, I guess kind of goes along with
what you're saying. But it's a lot to do with
this podcast. I feel like I am just finding a
way to re enter women's sports in a meaningful way
(18:49):
and show up in a meaningful way. And for a while,
because of our lives and the structure, like I had
to just kind of like go to work, pick up
the kids, be the like person that supports all the things.
Now I can re enter in a meaningful way. That's
either this podcast or the events that we do or
collaborating on things for you, and that's been really fun.
(19:12):
So as much as I can fill that cup reasonably,
I'm excited to do that.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I think those are good.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, women's sports. I mean the WNBA is the most
grown brand in twenty twenty four, Like I'll cross all brands,
And that is the most crazane thing I've ever heard
in my whole life. It's a fact and it's amazing.
But also can you believe that? Yeah, that's wild, It's
so crazy. I'm obsessed with it.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
It makes sense, though, I mean, like, look at all
the hype and all the success and all the numbers.
I mean, it's been incredible. And because of that, look
at all the success that other women's sports i e.
The PWHL are having in twenty twenty four. Yes, but
there had to have been a massive shift in like
strategy and decision making for what has happened with the
(19:56):
WNBA and women's sports to happen.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
I don't think there was a shift. I think it
just continued to go on and Caitlyn Clark came into
the league.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I don't disagree with it, Like I all the credits
to Kaitlyn Clark, but it was happening before that as well. Yes,
like the movement in the moment, it was all compiling,
and yeah, Kaitlyn Clark blew it up. But like that
almost feels too simple, like there have been all of
these players that like, I don't know, it just it
(20:26):
doesn't seem as simple as just like, oh, well, Caitlyn Clark, Like.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
The growth of the WNBA is not solely and exclusively
attributed to Kitlin Clark coming to play in it. I agree. Now,
if you take the fact that Nil social media, her
gameplay and everything, it makes sense that then you were
able to use the short form content, the video, the app,
all the things that are great about the WNBA to
(20:50):
absolutely scale. So it's like you brought Michael Jordan, who
was an incredible basketball player, but Michael Jordan with Nike,
with all the things that he brought to the game,
with the fun, the viewership, the obsession that Michael Jordan
brought to the NBA, and then put him in the NBA,
and the NBA literally took off the second Michael Jordan came.
And it wasn't because of him, but it was you
(21:13):
know what I'm saying, like he was the person that
unlocked the rest of the stories that then made you
become a die hard Bulls fan or a die hard
Celtics fan because the NBA was now cool and you're
from Boston. Like all these things aren't because of him,
but he is the catalyst of And I think that
Angel Reese Caitlin Clark having a fight in that game
(21:36):
and those National Championship games. I think that that was
the catalyst of drama and salacious storytelling. And then that
salacious storytelling comes with them when they both get drafted.
The draft blew up. The WNBA app is up two
hundred and fifty two percent year over year on monthly
active users. I mean, people are flocking to come see
this all the content that are coming from the WNBA.
(21:59):
So I definitely agree that it's crazy. But I think
you can point to this rookie class as the catalyst
for success. I think that's fair.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, I would, I I would agree with that. And
I think so. Kaitlyn Clark was Time Magazine Sports one
of the Year right and came out. I thought that
there was an incredible article, Like I thought that everything
that she said. I think sometimes when people come out
and say things that like give credit where credit is due.
People have a hard time with it because it may
(22:31):
seem disingenuine. But like, I thought that what Kaitlyn Clark
said was perfect, and I thought she hit the nail
right on the head. And I think that if you're
a white person in twenty twenty four, pretending like white
privilege isn't a thing, like, it's not a knock, Like
I don't hate men, but men have inherently had more opportunity.
That's just reality, Like, and the longer we go on, like,
(22:53):
the more opportunity. Hopefully hopefully we can start going forward
again instead of backwards, but hopefully women will have more opportunity,
and like, right, could we slowly level the playing field
for everyone? But I thought that what Kaitlyn Clark said
was phenomenal. And I think that maybe it came across
or is getting picked apart by certain people, Like but
what was she supposed to say? I mean, I think
(23:14):
that there was opportunity for the WNBA to get more
involved when you were having some of the issues with
the fans, et cetera. Right, and like that was a
separate issue. But I don't think that Kaitlyn Clark has
ever thought that she wasn't getting opportunity because of the
league being built on the backs of other women. And
I think that she recognizes fully like that she came
in at the right, you know what I mean, like
all of those things, and I think that what she
(23:36):
did was incredible when she came out and said, yeah,
this is great, but like, let's be serious, I have
had more opportunity and more X, Y and Z because
of how I look. And I think that that takes
a lot of guts.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I totally agree with you. And you know what, it
actually isn't the first time a women's basketball player has
come out and said this exact sentiment. Paige Becker's did
the exact same thing. I think she won an SB
for Player of the Year or something to that effect,
and she got up on the stage and she said
something along the same lines. I am white. I am
going to get the camera shoved in my face, but
(24:10):
this is a sport predominantly built by black women, and
I have the privilege of playing it alongside them, something
to that effect. And I think in twenty twenty five,
the energy we should bring in all spaces is that
of radical transparency, of what is real and not real.
It is one hundred percent real, then Caitlin Clark is
(24:32):
an incredible asset to women's basketball whilst also being one
hundred percent real that she can attribute all of that
to the work of countless black women who will never
get their face on the Times magazine front cover. Let's
do that more. And I feel the same way in
every space. And if we can do that, that is
your original, like your og point on what your resolution
(24:54):
is is to be like widely good. And if you
can bring loud goodness into twenty twenty five, you create
space for good for everybody else. I'm not going to
change either of mine because I like mine as well,
but I'm with you. I think in twenty twenty five
we should all just be radically good.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
We've talked a little bit about twenty twenty five. Let's
look back quickly for twenty twenty four. So in the
packer house we do check ins, but we also do
high and low. Ooh, pit, cover a pit and tit.
So what is your high? Looking back quickly, what's your
high from twenty twenty four? And either a low or
(25:47):
a lesson that you're going to carry in the twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
It's really hard because I will say it felt like
a repeat of my lifetime. Tit, but my lifetime. Both
of these two highs feel like a repeat of one another.
But I will say it because I think it is
extremely important. Going to the first game in the Peterhl
(26:12):
that you were playing. We were in Toronto, it was packed,
There was like people standing everywhere. We got these crazy
bracelets that lit up, like it was seeing the new
league in its first game, and like watching it happen
felt like a culmination of all of the years of
our work that have been honestly thankless and really really hard.
(26:35):
It felt like that was coming to a head. It
reminds me of the first game we played in Connecticut,
actually Riveters versus Connecticut, and it was the first game
we were ever paid to play. It was the first
game we were ever standing on the ice receiving a paycheck,
no matter how big or small. And in both of
those moments, in the second actually more than the first,
(26:56):
because the first we just tried out made the team
and we got all the shine, and the second it
felt like all the work meant something, and I just
I don't know that that was a big high for
me and then.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
My low low or a lesson.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
The lesson that I'm going to take is that every
single time I move in a way that I don't
appreciate about myself or I think that I haven't shown
up as good as I can, I can always, always
always change it. Whether I can't change the past, but
I can change my mindset moving forward. I really go
back to that conversation that I had with Waylan in
(27:34):
his room the other day where he told me I
was a bad mommy and because I yelled at him
because he wasn't going to sleep, and I sat down
with him in that moment because I felt awful and
I wanted to keep yelling obviously that's that's easier for
my lack of emotional maturity, but I didn't. I sat
down and I said, I'm sorry, Mommy can do bad things,
(27:55):
but that doesn't make me a bad mommy. That wasn't nice,
And can I hug you? And he said no? And
that hurt because you just want him to immediately accept
your apology, as I want you to immediately accept my
apology when I apologize, because it's hard for me to
do because I'm stubborn. But in that moment, he showed
me that I sometimes have to sit in that and
(28:17):
I you know, we stayed there for twenty five minutes
and then he gave me a hug and he fell asleep.
Like I can do a bad thing, it doesn't make
me a bad person. I'm gonna take that energy into
twenty twenty five. How about you? What was your start
with your lesson and then let's end with something happy.
So start with your lesson and then we'll go we'll
go elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So for me, my lesson, I guess it wasn't a
lesson from this year, but something I maybe realized in
this year. So my uncle Alex Alex Gage passed away
earlier this year, and he was like the most brilliant
person ever. If you're listening, look him up. Alex Gage.
He's credited with just like a lot of work and
(28:54):
software at innovation in the political and polling space. Really
really brilliant guy. But also just like super quirky, wore
yellow crocs, like I was a kid that just constantly
chased his shadow. And we went to his celebration of
life a few months ago and I said a few
things and like preparing for that and doing that, I
(29:14):
learned that obviously he was someone that I really looked
up to as a kid and whatever, but it's not
until you like look back on someone right, that you realize,
I think, the true impact that they've had on you.
And in doing that with my uncle, it made me
realize that no matter how big or small the impact
that you make, the impact that you have on people
(29:37):
is hugely important, and your ability to have influence over
people is important. So that kind of comes into my
like one of my resolutions is to live in positivity,
but because we have such an ability to make an
impact on people and leave an impression in a positive way,
so I guess through loss, I learned that the most
(29:57):
important thing that you can do in life is make
a difference in the life of someone else, particularly the
lives of children, right, And that's something that I think
that he did really well, And so that's something that
I want to focus on, both with my kids, with
other kids, with people in general. Is just trying to
make an impact and have people learn my story and
understand my perspective and in turn respectfully learn and understand theirs.
(30:21):
And I think that that can hopefully make the world
a little better in kinder place.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
I like that lesson now tell us the high.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
So mine's kind of weird. But I think my high
was training camp this year. Yeah, training camp, just because
I trained so hard all summer, and I think that
was probably the hardest I've ever worked in my thirty
year career of playing hockey, nine years of playing professionally,
(30:54):
four years of college, national team whatever. Like I never
worked so hard for something, and even though the end
result was different from what I was preparing for, I
guess the body of work and the like my performance
and like my ability to be proud of myself maybe
(31:14):
like I just proved to myself that I can do
hard things and that I can do anything I put
my mind to because I did it. And I think
most people like what They're like, oh, you're not playing,
so what does that mean? Like I had certain goals
for testing that I think most people thought were unreachable maybe,
and I slapped it in the face. So for me,
like it just felt really good to know that everything
(31:38):
I was working towards doing and the things that I
thought were really hard and near impossible, I did And
I was proud of myself for that, and it felt
really really good because we both know everything that went
into the summer and everyone sacrificed a lot for me
to be able to do that. And so from a
testing perspective, just to be able to go into camp
and do what I did, like that felt really good.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Real greater sense of achievement than pride in yourself, right,
Like that's not seeking the validation from anybody, it's just
being proud of yourself, which is not an easy thing
to do as an athlete.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, and so for me, that felt really good.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
On that note, we finished the year stronger than ever,
proud of ourselves, with strong life lessons. The hockeys, it's
best it's ever been. Women's sports is on the rise.
We've covered all the things that really speak to our soul.
So without further ado, go watch women's sports. Watch Unrivaled,
watch the PWHL, Watch League One Volleyball, Watch Major League
pick a Ball. I mean I could literally keep running leagues,
(32:36):
watch the WLL like, watch all of these women's sports
that are now on the rise. Approach twenty twenty five
with radical goodness like the Packer family. Maybe go skiing
like I would like to do. All of the world
is in front of us and we can do anything.
I am so thankful that we have come up with
a gang of people that now listen to our pod,
that listen to you and I ramble about nothing. It's
(32:58):
been a true gift and we head into twenty five
with nothing but goodness in our hearts. So thanks, pack,
I appreciated everything you said today.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah, and for those who might be feeling more like
me this holiday season, that's okay. The world is sometimes happy,
sometimes sad. Holidays are different for everybody. But I think
as I'm navigating kind of what I'm going through in retirement,
and just like it's weird to feel like not happy
(33:27):
during a super happy time. I don't know, it's a
weird swing of emotions and like everything is lit up
and bows and happy and like. So for people who
maybe don't necessarily feel the same way the Christmas tree looks,
I empathize with you. But also you're a huge part
of what's to come in twenty twenty five, so let's
(33:49):
get through it together.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yes, melancholy can be felt, and as we move out
of it, we head into twenty twenty five full of hope,
happiness and love. Love all right, well until next time,
Mother Puckers. We start the new year with some great guests,
some great conversations, some more hockey hot takes, and all around,
(34:11):
have a great year. We'll see you soon. These packspuck
is a production of iHeart Women's Sports in Deep Blue
Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
It's hosted by Us Madison and Anya Packer. Emily Meronoff
is our awesome senior producer and story editor. We were
mixed and mastered by Mary Doo.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Our executive producers.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
And Ali Perry. I do think mother Puckers is the
only thing we can call our fans a mother pucker
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