Jamie Hersch Wants to Keep Asking Good Questions

Women are breaking barriers on and off the ice — and sports journalists like Jamie Hersch are leading the charge in elevating women’s sports through powerful storytelling. In this episode, Jamie reflects on her early career as a trailblazer in a male-dominated field, where she had to prove her skills and passion as the only woman in the room. She, along with the Packers, discuss how women athletes often connect with fans by sharing their authentic stories, a stark contrast to the more game-focused narrative of men’s sports. They agree that men’s sports can learn a lot from women. The conversation also touches on the chaotic but rewarding phases of parenting, while sharing excitement for the bright future of women in sports media.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer. I'm a recently retired pro
hockey VET, a founding member of the National Women's Hockey League,
a pillar in the PHF, and an inaugural member of
the PWHL Sirens.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm anupacker, also a former pro hockey player, also
founding member of the National Women's Hockey League. But today
I'm a full Madison Packer.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Stand.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Anya and I met through hockey, then we got married
and now we're moms to two awesome toddlers, ages two
and four.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
And on our new podcast, These Packs Puck, we're opening
up about the chaos of our daily lives, between the
juggle of being athletes, raising children and all the messiness
in between.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
You're right, what's going on, Gail?

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Oh boy, that needs an explanation. Where are we in
the world right now?

Speaker 3 (00:46):
I'm in London. I'm dialing in Life from London.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
So I am in London from here for work, and
I have every single rep from our London team teaching
me how to say things like they do here in London.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Instead of how I would tiply say it.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Instead of saying hey, what's up, they go You're right,
what's happened?

Speaker 1 (01:04):
In my sounds a little bit Australian or like New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
No, I know it doesn't. Those are different. Those are
like good, ay might that's different?

Speaker 1 (01:13):
All right, Well you're in London. I'm in Southwest Florida.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Let's go.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Now that we've established where we're at.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
When I get into it.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
We got lots to talk about.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
So we're gonna get in.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
The hockey hot takes today, Hotey hot.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Take top of the list as usual, the Honey Badgers.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yes, the Wisconsin Badgers won another national championship.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Wo are we shocked to hear this?

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Given what we saw from the Wisconsin Badgers all season long,
we aren't shocked to hear this.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
To be fair, that game, though, was phenomenally entertaining. The
national championship game was top ten at Ritter Badgers versus
the Buck guys. It was a great Wisconsin versus Minnesota game.
I felt like it was a closer game than the
score reflected. It was. I think a five to two final,
six to two final, maybe, but I don't know. I

(02:07):
thought it was a good game. Minus the hit from
Murphy on Caroline Harvey.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
That was wild.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
There's gonna be a conversation about that.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
That was crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
I'm not gonna lie to you when I say watching
that game was amazing, right because it's the future of
our games, right, So it was like fully entertaining. You see,
like you see a thousand things come on and I'm
sure going to talk about them all.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
That hit was nuts.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
That was unnecessary backyard beer league bullshit. Whoa, Nope, that's
what it was. Someone's got to call it out. That
kid came from across the ice, lined her up. Harvey
never saw the hit coming. She could have seriously seriously
injured her. It's one of the best players in the NCAA.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
No, no, no, she knew exactly.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
What she was doing.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
And the player that hit her, Murphy's a good player too,
don't get me wrong, but that there is no room
for that in hockey.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, that honestly could have been career ending, which is crazy.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
To have that happen in that quality of a game.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
It was crazy.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, okay, fine, I'm with you. That was really bad.
And here's the thing. When we normalize hitting, we're gonna
it's gonna trickle down. But we like, we can't keep
talking about safe hitting. It's it's actually gonna get annoying,
but like it has to be spoken about at a
level until somebody listens to it. Because Caroline Harvey is
truly right as close as we're getting to one of
those players that is like taking some of the things

(03:25):
that are happening in basketball and doing them right her
Like socials are hilarious. She's getting that love, like she's
getting a lot of fanfare. She could be a real
change maker in the culture of women's hockey, probably gonna
be our number one draft pick, not the person that
you want to take out from the knees across the
ice and almost put her in a body bag.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
That's nuts.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, I mean that was she was lucky that she
was able to go back into the game and then
was a big, you know, big part of them winning
the next game. But just wanted to shout out the Badgers.
They got it done. They're back on top. First team
to eight.

Speaker 5 (03:54):
Wooo.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
I can't actually cheer for the Badgers.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
I recall that disappointing, disappointing as a terry or however,
it was a sick.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Game, unreal. In the antithesis of that all that hYP
let's talk about what's happening in the ploth push on
the pro side.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
The ploth push on the prosage is shaking up exactly
as it did last year, which is a problem.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, New York and Ottawa are at the bottom of
the standings again, which is where they finished last year.
And it's insanely frustrating to sit by and watch.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
Listen.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
It's easy to sit where we sit right now and
throw stones and talk about this, that and the other,
but it's even crazier to watch what's happening repeatedly. And
I'm saying this with my full chest. If we were
in men's professional sport league, if we were a men's
professional league in any sport, there would have been a
change for these teams in leadership, in lineup, in anything
or everything. And they're just not doing it. And it's

(04:48):
ridiculous and sometimes you just have to shake it up
to see what works. You got to move players, you
got to move coaches, you gotta move general managers. Something's
got to give because what you're doing isn't working. In
the antithesis of that, you've got some of the leaders
from these organizations coming out and saying, oh, I've got
faith in my group.

Speaker 4 (05:05):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Faith is beautiful and pretty and tie it up with
a bow, but it doesn't do shit to win games,
as is evident by the fact that you're in the
same position that you were in last year.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, that was crazy, So give context to that, because
I was shocked when I saw.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
That the general manager from Ottawa came out, you know,
at the trade deadline and said, we're not making any
player personnel moves. We have full faith in our group.
We're moving forward with this. And I don't know, you know,
their their management, their leadership group. I know Carl McLeod,
the head coach. You know, I've seen her body of work.
I think she's a phenomenal coach. I think her players
are all in for her. I think that she knows

(05:38):
the game well. I think that she plays her bench well.
You know. They've also had a string of injuries here
and there, so that doesn't help. But it doesn't matter.
And I have to believe that if these teams were
individually owned and there was more incentive for the person
at the tippy top to win, to put more money
in their pocket, to feel the effects of fans not

(05:59):
coming to games. No one wants to watch a losing team.
Like things might be different. And again, this is not
at shots at the players at all. No, No, what's
to say that you don't bring you know, bring in
a different set of eyes who just shuffles the bag
and still makes do with what you have. But to
do the same thing over and over and expect a
different result when it hasn't worked to this point, it's crazy.

(06:20):
I mean, you've got the same two teams who, short
of a bloody miracle, are going to both end up
in the last two spots fighting for the top draft pick.
And Sarah Philia is.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
A phenomenal hockey player.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
New York is last place again, So yeah, one player
is not going to change the trajectory of your franchise.
You got to go a whole hell of a lot
deeper than that, and you got to find a lot
of character in the room. But like we're talking about,
you know, the golden rule, the rush for this draft
pick again, I just think it's a deeper issue.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
I would agree.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
I think the issue is a little bit bigger than that,
because honestly, at this point, I think the standings are
almost exactly the same as they were last year. It
goes Montreal Toronto Boston, Minnesota fighting Boston kind of fighting
Ottawa charge and then the New York Sirens and the
parody between four and six, right like, because that's the
number that we have to beat. Minnesota Ross has thirty

(07:12):
five points. New York Sirens have twenty seven points, with
five games left for the New York Sirens in each
game potentially being worth three points to them. It's not impossible,
but it is getting tough out there.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
They play who do they play? They play Ottawa twice.
Right by the.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
Time people hear this, it'll a few of these games
will have been played. But where it stands now, New
York is playing Ottawa Tuesday night. Then they play Montreal twice,
so you got to play the top place team twice.
They play Minnesota again, and they play Toronto. You have
to beat Ottawa. You have to beat Ottawa, and you

(07:50):
can't leave any points on the board. Essentially, New York
needs a few teams to lose, not only to them
but to other teams, and they have to win the
rest of the games in regulation if they want to
fighting chance at all of a playoff spot. And even still,
once it's decided who's five and six, you still got
to win those games to get the top draft pick.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
The other thing too, And this is where I get
pretty stuck on the data of it all. In New York,
you have three players that are above zero on plus
minus only three.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
For people who don't know what is plus minus, how
is it quantified? And why is it significant? All? Right?

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Plus minus is if you're on the ice for a
goal against, you get a minus, and if you're on
the ice for a goal four, you get a plus. So,
if I'm going to give you like a quick explanation,
you're on the ice for three goals that our team scores,
your plus three. Then you stay on the ice for
one goal at the other team scores your net two,
your plus two. So you've been on for three on
for one against. That's that's a plus two. So that's

(08:47):
in your entire season on New York. You have Olivia
Oles with plus one, Carpy with plus two, in Sarah
Philia with plus seven.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
The rest of the team, one player is even and
the remainder of the team is in the minus.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
If you think about that really, like.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Wrap your head around what that looks like from a
player personnel perspective, it's not good, Like, that's not where
you want to be. And New York has points because
they've tied a lot of games, so they've gotten a
lot of points off ties. That's the same thing that
happened last year. They aren't executing, They aren't able to
close the games out. And I can't look at the

(09:26):
roster and look at the players and be like, these
aren't the right players. It's the wrong combos, it's the
wrong systems, it's the wrong something for sure. But the
players aren't the problem. And when every single player just
gets out there over the boards every single game and
racks up these minuses, there's a bigger issue. What are

(09:47):
we talking about here?

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Three players, You gotta score goals. You gotta have production
from your depth lines one.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
Two.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
You have to put other players on the ice to
provide opportunity to produce, Like you're not going to you
get four minutes a game, four minutes of ice in
a game, it's tough to do anything with that.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah, it's just luck if you get a point at
that rate.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
There's actually a certain amount of time that you have
to spend on the ice for your for stats and
data to be quantifiable, right, And four minutes of ice time,
ain't it. It's just not. I've had this conversation with
people outside of the league who have You know, if
you go look at the NHL and look at those
player logs and look at that ice time, and look
at Toronto, look at all the teams in the in

(10:28):
the PWHL and identify the teams that are having problems
look at their player ice time logs. You're more likely
to get scored on, and you're more likely to score
the more that you're on the ice. So maybe something
isn't working in you know, player preference. All these things
play into it so that there's a method to the
madness and if it works, great, but it ain't working, and.

Speaker 4 (10:51):
I think to put a bow on all of this.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
Obviously, rosters are frozen, no player changes are being made now.
It's the end of the season. High doubt with what
we saw last year that there's gonna be any personnel changes.
But I hope for the best. I hope that New
York wins out and gets it done. They've got an tough,
uphill battle. But no matter what happens, the powers that
be that have the ability to make decisions and think

(11:16):
critically need to look at the markets that have underperformed
now twice in a row, identify the problem and fix
it immediately, because those athletes deserve better.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Well, the fans do too. They're gonna stop coming.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Careers are ending because of it. Yeah, and it's completely
unnecessary and it's unprofessional.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah, I would agree with that. And that stinks.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Like, you know, we want everyone to play forever and
it just doesn't work like that. But I think we've
we've gotten to the point of maybe doing a little
check in, maybe kind of like giving each other a
little space to breathe, because we we really do get
so fired up.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
I care like I want that team, like right, it
makes me so mad what I said.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
My give a ship meter is so high.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
You making fun of me. No, I can't do that.
I feel badly for them. I want that team.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
You still want passion. I want New York breathe.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
I want New York to be good.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
Okay, I want New York to be good too. I
want you to take a deep breath.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Actually, I take that back. New York is good. I'm
gonna jump through this mic and smack you.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
I'm in London. Can't touch me.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
I wrap it up and we'll jump into the check in.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Let's check in pack. How you doing. You're pushing me
to an edge too.

Speaker 4 (12:35):
I'm great.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
I went for a thirty mile bike ride today, didn't
ride with my dad, so I hit a new top
speed pr saw some dolphins stopped on the bridge.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Oh that's kind of cute. I like the way that
you do.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Like. I can also tell when you spend a lot
of time by yourself, because you'll say I'm great, like great,
rode my bike today?

Speaker 3 (12:54):
Like why say the rs like that?

Speaker 4 (12:57):
Because I'm from the Midwest. That's how my parents talk.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yeah, true, true, Thanks for asking.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
I have actually been at a conference for the past
two days and I haven't seen sunlight, and it's been
a little chilly here.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
In London, so I'm not feeling my best. I'm quite tired.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
And when we're recording now, I'm five hours ahead of
you or four hours.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
Ahead of you.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
So are you tired?

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Tie, Oh my gosh, take a deep breath.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
I'm sharing a bed with a two year old and
a four year old every night.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
I appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
They both pee through their night dipes. Whalen's fallen off
the bed.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Try everything is a challenge and a competition. I can
also be tired while you're tired at the same time.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
That's okay.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
I didn't say I'm more tired than you, but I'm tired.
I think I'm like a sixty.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah, I'm like a eighty three eighty three solid eighty.
So you said you were great, all right, So opposite
ends of the globe and we're but we're still we're
running hot. That's pretty low. Like you're in London by yourself, I.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Know, but you know what I will say, I'm gonna
take us down quick detour London he th Airport on
my way here, so this will be, you know, a
week ago now, but on my way here, something caught
on fire.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
So London was closed for twenty four hours.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Something caught on fire, like the biggest power grade in
the UK caught on fire.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
Not something yeah okay, but like whatever apart, it was
not the actual airport. I keep telling everyone that the
airport was burning down, which is not correct. So then
the only next step because I had already left and
gotten into Atlanta, and then my flight was canceled. And
I don't want to spend any extra time in America
because in my mind, I'm going to be on a
euro trip, so I'm thinking, let's just get to Europe.

(14:34):
I flew from Atlanta to Amsterdam for eight hours, did
my hot girl walk around Amsterdam, had lunch, had my
best Netherlands life, and then flew from there to Ireland,
spent a night in Ireland, and then got us on
like the Spirit airlines of the UK to London. So
I have been in three separate countries alone, traveling with

(14:55):
no kids, and everyone around me is like, isn't that miserable,
and I'm like, no, no, it's actually been quiet nice,
and I've I've gotten to like really walk around like
and when I was in Ireland, I walked ten miles,
so I feel like I saw the whole country.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
I'm basically Irish at this point.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
I haven't showered or changed my clothes in four days.
But I don't have my kids, so I'm a ten
out of ten.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, but I'm tired, right, So like I'm a sixty
and you're at eighty three.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
And this is hilarious.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
But either way, let's get into our conversation pack because
I really really like no shock, I say every time.
I was really excited about this one I love this
conversation and I think for both of us it was
it was illuminating.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
I want to give a little shout out to our
next guest, sports journalist and broadcaster Jamie Hirsch. She's one
of my favorite women in the business. She's been a
mentor to me as of late, a resource, someone who
I've relied heavily upon as I try to transition here
into something new, and I think it's important always to
shine extra light on women who are for women, and
that is Jamie.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
To a tea.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
So super excited for our conversation with her.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Up next, we'll get into a conversation with Jami Hirsh
right after the break.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Jamie, thank you for joining us on these Packed Puck.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
We're super excited to have you.

Speaker 5 (16:18):
Hey, thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
Welcome to these Packs Puck. We do a little bit
of nonsense here. We're excited to have you on.

Speaker 5 (16:25):
Yeah, I'm super excited to be here. You guys did
a great job, and it's so cool to just have
different voices all throughout the hockey world and sports world
really be elevated by things like podcasts and YouTube channels
and everything. So I'm super excited to be on here.

Speaker 4 (16:40):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
We're having a lot of fun with it.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
We're just getting our teeth cut in the world, not
quite like yourself, who's doing all the things. You went
from the NHL MLB Vegas a little bit of a
crazy journey, but you've landed at the PWHL. So I
think we wanted to kick off with where was hockey
in your life growing up? Because you're a Minnesota girl,
aren't you.

Speaker 5 (17:00):
I am a Minnesota girl. Little known fact, I did
not grow up with much hockey, even though I was
Minnesota girl. So obviously you know it's around, and I
had friends who played hockey. I think I dated a
guy in middle school who played hockey for a little bit.
But my high school really wasn't a huge hockey high school.
And so even though it is the state of hockey,
it's kind of funny, how like certain towns are more

(17:22):
hockey focused than others, and mine was was not really,
So I actually grew up with you know, football, basketball, baseball.
I was a figure skater, so I was around hockey,
but I never played. My dad was kind of funny,
had an issue with the fighting and didn't want us
to play hockey, but skip ahead many many years. You know,
I always loved sports and eventually ended up in a

(17:44):
career in sports broadcasting, and there was an opportunity to
work in hockey with the Minnesota Wild, and I jumped
at that. And as is so often the case for
young people who are looking for opportunities, you don't really
turn many down, even if you're not sure you're the
best fit for the job. And so I said, yeah,
I can cover hockey. I can do hockey. And then
I had thirty days notice to give my old company,

(18:07):
and I just watched every game, every hockey studio show,
anything I could absorb to learn as much as I
could about hockey. I got coffee and dinner with friends
who were in love with hockey and played hockey and
just learned as much as I could. And that first
year I really leaned on my analysts to teach me
kind of off camera. It was an on the fly

(18:29):
job training, so to speak.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
That's insane.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Also, Madison, is the reason that your dad was afraid
of you playing hockey. It's actually you personally, your hockey style.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah, you're dad and my dad disagreed on the whole
fighting thing.

Speaker 5 (18:43):
I think I love that yeah, and now, I mean
it's just so funny. My dad still just you know,
laughs and sits back because he loves hockey now, but
I know it's been so much a part of my
life for gosh, like thirteen fourteen years now that he's
had to come around to it. But we laughed because
I don't think anyone would have dreamed that I would
be not only working in hockey but calling play by play,

(19:05):
which like demands a pretty in depth knowledge of the game.
And so I never would have dreamed it. But that's
a good example, like you never know, and if you
put your mind to something and you prep and you
work hard and you study and you learn, like you
can do anything, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
I mean, that's that's highly, highly impressive because I would
say most players who traverse to some form of broadcasting
like you, at least have the fallback up. Okay, I
know the game. I played the game at a high level.
I think the game at a high level. Like everything
in the studio, I think has to be easier to
learn than learning the game you've never played. That's that's incredible.

Speaker 5 (19:39):
Yeah. I Mean the big thing too, that I always
try to remind people is like I didn't. I never
try to go into anything like I'm the expert in hockey, right,
Like I think I'm pretty well versed in broadcasting. But
I always my role has never been to be the
analyst to explain the game and to try to break
it down, because I think that is better reserved for

(20:00):
people like yourself who played the game, who lives a game.
For me, it's my job to bring that out of
the people that I'm working with. It's my job to
ask good questions, and it's my job to know the
game enough to ask informed questions. But I think that
made it a lot easier for me to kind of
fake it till I make it where I just was like,
my job isn't to explain it. My job is to

(20:21):
get the people who really are the experts to explain it.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
For sure, With all of that said, what do you
think is the most challenging part of what you do?

Speaker 5 (20:30):
I kind of wear a lot of different hats right now,
which has been a fun new part of my career
and new little plot twist, if you will. So the
most difficult part of play by play, for sure, is
just keeping up with everything right. It is the hardest
thing I've ever done career wise, and the most enjoyable
thing I've ever done career wise, because I feel like

(20:51):
it's as close as I could ever possibly get to
playing the game. Because I'm so laser focused on everything
the puck is doing, who's coming on and off the ice.
I'm trying to keep all of those things on the
brain and be aware of everything that's happening while not
sounding like an idiot at the same time, you know,
like thinking and talking at the same time. Like it's

(21:13):
really hard, and sometimes you have a producing Y're saying,
you know, we're going to go to break on the
next whistle or whatever it is. So that's definitely the
most challenging thing for play by play. For other things
like reporting or hosting, it's just really staying up to
date on everything that's happening. I mean, for the last
nine years I worked at NHL Network where I had

(21:33):
to cover the NHL so it is our responsibility to
cover all thirty two teams and that's a lot to
keep up with. So that that was just the hardest thing,
is you know, just constantly trying to stay up to
date on the news of the day and and what
else is going on that people are talking about.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, I mean every single one adds such a layer
of complexity, right, Like I remember back in the day
when I first stopped playing, they asked me to start
doing color commentating and we didn't have a produce and
we were like standing in the stands with microphones.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
It was yeah, yeah, nine years ago.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
But I remember having such a hard time because I
love hockey so much that I would be like ooh,
and I'm like, no, no, no, I can't be a fan.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
I have to be non biased or something like that, right.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Like Annie was like cheering on the Broadcastyah, I have.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
A hard time. I have a hard time.

Speaker 5 (22:22):
Well, I think that's endearing to a point though, Like
you know what you mean, you have to like call
a straight game, But like I don't know. I work
with Gigi Marronlant now and she is so freshly off
the ice, like she just retired this off season, and
she does a lot of Boston games, which is the
team she played for. So she's literally like she doesn't
even know some of the girl's last names because she
calls them by their nicknames, or she doesn't know their

(22:44):
first name. Because it's like I don't know, we call
her Digi or whatever, you know, Degirolamo, Like she calls
her like Digi, and so she'll say it on the broadcast,
or she'll find herself like throwing her arm up in
the air if like she sees someone's gonna go spring
on a breakaway or something like it's it's awesome. I
think it's great, but I know that it is important
to try to tow that line.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
It was always hard and it's always funny too write
like I would like silently celebrate in my like play
by play would be like calm down, like chill. But
I say all of that because it's a different thing, right,
Each one of those hats is a different job. So
is there any moment or call or studio moment that
you like that like kind of brought all that love
together at that one point, or like one coverage that

(23:25):
really stands out to you?

Speaker 5 (23:27):
Gosh, I'm trying to remember there have been a lot
of moments throughout my career, like every time I get
to cover a Stanley Cup final is just Pia hockey glory.
But I think in terms of like being in the booth,
I remember Abby Levy making her I think it was
her first start, but she was at Ubs Arena where

(23:48):
she grew up as an Islanders fan, and it was
a hard, fog game and she ended up getting to win,
and it was just you know, New York as a
team is you know, Madison knows, like had their struggles
last year, right like bottom of the standings most of
the season. So the wins, right, yeah, I know, so
the wins were just that much more special. And so

(24:09):
you know, I did all the New York home games
last year, and so I was certainly more a New
York fan, so to speak, because it's more fun the
call games where you know the team that you know
the best is winning. And so anyway that that game
they won, she was like the hometown girl getting the win,
getting her first professional hockey win, and you know, they
played New York, New York and it was just really cool.

(24:29):
The fans were into it, so that that probably stands
out as one of my favorite p WHL moments.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, that's sick. I remember she walked in with a
Rick D. P Trow jersey that that game.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
Ye oh yeah, Like I'm dialed in on that game too.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, but I remember that game specifically because my kids
lost it for Abby. They love the goalies because I
think they're like all the pads, but they were just
losing their mind.

Speaker 5 (24:48):
So that's that's really sweet.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
And yeah, a moment that sticks out for me too.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
I remember that that win because I remember her whole
family was there and they used to tailgate, remember like
outside with this big Levy big tailgate thing. They would
give out shirts to everybody. It was They're just the
Leaevies are hilarious and amazing. But yeah, that one is
really special and I love that. So we'll talk about
the highs and now we'll just get a little bit
into the lows because I can imagine it's hard sometimes

(25:14):
to find space, especially for all those years working in
men's sports. I think as women we elevate each other
very well, and I think you do a phenomenal job.
But where's that like disconnect between the men's and the
women's space and when you were starting your career, really like,
how did you navigate that?

Speaker 5 (25:31):
Yeah, it was definitely tricky. It was not lost on
me that most of the time I was the only
woman in the room. I started my career out of
college in Madison, Wisconsin as a weekend sports anchor, which
was super fun and challenging and rewarding because I did
everything like This was when the whole one man band
idea started in local television, and so I was the
first one at the station to be hired to shoot

(25:54):
my own stuff, report, edit, like do everything. So I
was like lugging their around fifty pounds of gear, the tripod,
the camera, the everything, like learning how to white balance,
and then like figure out how to make sure I
was in focus because I didn't have a camera that
had the flip things. So I whatever, spare you the details,
but it was a journey and it taught me a lot,

(26:17):
and it also made me never take for granted having
a camera person or an audio person because I was
that person and the person on camera. So anyway, that
was really the time where I was the only woman
in that market in Madison that was doing sports, and
I was also young, and so it just felt like
a lot to prove right, And I remember just being

(26:39):
really nervous about like press conferences and asking good questions.
But I also challenged myself to always make sure that
I did ask a question and that I wasn't just
passively sitting in the background because I wanted to make
it known like I'm here to do my job. I'm
not here to be on TV. I'm here because I'm
genuinely interesting and covering sports and I love sports and

(27:01):
I know sports, and I want to kind of, you know,
without being cocky about it, just like create space for
me there in a room that otherwise would have kind
of gotten a lot of eyebrolls, I think from men.
So those were some of the challenge Mase, for sure.
And now having said that, like, I just feel a
tremendous amount of respect and I feel really thankful that

(27:23):
we come at least a little ways in terms of
normalizing women in sports broadcasting, Like I'm far from the
only woman in the room now, and includes writers, that
includes camera operators, it includes producers, directors, Like there are
so many more women than there ever were ten years
ago working in sports television. And so I don't feel
that level of I guess, like mistrust or suspicion from

(27:47):
the men in the room, like why are you really here?
Kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah, the questioning, like the intention questioning, Yeah, like name your.

Speaker 5 (27:54):
Five favorite players or every five players on the team,
or if.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
We do, that's like let's start flipping that on its head.
We did that at Four Nations.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
We walked around with a camera and we were like,
I have five dollars, I have all this money.

Speaker 4 (28:07):
I go.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
We walked around with two hundred and fifty bucks. If
you could name five women hockey players, will give you
five dollars.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Can I tell you?

Speaker 4 (28:13):
We gave it two forty five?

Speaker 5 (28:14):
We left.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
We got all our money back. I'll tell you that
right now.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
But it was it was actually shocking because it was
a bunch of and this is this is not like
rip on men hour, but it was. It was shocking
to me because because I was like, I have a
great content idea, but then you have And this was
Four Nations, USA, Canada. I mean you think about the
presence of USA, Canada, women in Canada and the US,
and so we're walking around to a bunch of people
in US and USA and Canada jerseys and I'm not kidding.

(28:39):
I think four or five and they were all women.

Speaker 4 (28:41):
There was one guy who could who could.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
Be He named three. He was pretty close.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
But I'm like, I'm like, would you say you're a
big hockey fan, I'm the biggest hockey fan.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
Yeah. R Women's hockey. Oh well, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Like it just was interesting that, like you can follow
hockey that closely and be so disconnected. I mean, women's
hockey is growing faster than men's right now.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yes, I feel like the national team level, the consistency
of who's on the ice in the women's game is
it's different, right If.

Speaker 5 (29:06):
You can't name Hillary Knight, if you can't name Kenel Quinsfield,
you can't name Marie Philipolin, like you can't call it herself.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
No crazy, So we did anyway, So, like we said,
that was a funny one where like we definitely flipped
the script and we actually stole that from Ari Chambers
because I love her. But she goes to the NBA
All Star and she'll be like, who's who do you want?
Who's your post point? And she'll ask somebody and then
they'll start to answer and she'll be like why, tell
me why?

Speaker 3 (29:31):
What about their game?

Speaker 2 (29:32):
And I love that because it's like, yeah, I'm just
gonna say Caitlin Clark, but if you don't know the
follow up to that, she's going to expose you.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
So anyway, we had a lot of fun with that.

Speaker 6 (29:39):
But that is really a fun idea we should start
exposing people more. No, okay, so but hopefully those people
all went and searched, like looked at her about women's hockey,
like even if then they were like embarrassed, like maybe
it launched them into a little Google search about Oh yeah,
I should probably watch this women's hockey league that suddenly

(30:01):
exists now.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Right, I should become a fan of all hockey just
generally speaking.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
So talking about women in the space, Anny and I
have talked about the amplification and the importance of the
PWHL walkins because for the first time ever, we as
athletes had the ability or we as female athletes in
the hockey space, had the opportunity to write to showcase ourselves,
like our personalities, et cetera. Because hockey, you're behind glass,
you're behind a face mask, you have got a helmet on, Like,

(30:28):
there's so many.

Speaker 4 (30:29):
Barriers to see that athlete.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Do you feel that that is something that we could
also see more of on the men's side, and do
you think that that could be a more important aspect
to sport.

Speaker 5 (30:39):
I think so. I think anytime you can humanize an athlete,
male or female, like it'll make them more attractive more
palatable to the masses, whatever, more interesting, you know, like
people are starting to learn that athletes aren't just there
to put on a performance for your entertainment. Like, they're
people themselves too. They have families, they have help and

(31:00):
dreams and things that they're going to do for much
longer of their life than playing the game. And so
I think, you know, whether it's fashion or kind of
being able to feel comfortable showing off their personal life
with their Instagram or whatever and like their family, I
think that's super important and I think that will grow
the game faster. I mean we talk about that a
lot on the men's side too. At the NHL. How

(31:21):
you know nobody knows hockey players when they walk down
the street. Well, you're right. Part of that is because
there's you know, advisor or something or helmet or but
also part of that is I don't think the league
does a good enough job of promoting the athlete himself
or on the PWHL side herself.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
I go to events a lot with Deep Blue Sports
and Entertainment. You know, it's frequently Ashlyn Harris is on
the panel and ask the question why should people invest
in women's sports and or why are women more willing
to be more authentic or do you get you know,
better storytelling quote unquote, And the answer is because you
have to, Like, we don't have a choice, right. The
men are making millions, and they're much more conservative, and

(31:59):
they're much more private about their private lives because they
are getting paid by the team to play a sport.
They don't want people to know anything else about them,
versus the women, who we don't need to be like
in your house, we need to be sitting on the
couch in your living room, having you invested in what
we're doing. We want you to buy the products that
we buy and use because our livelihoods depend on it.
And I think that as women's sport has taken off,

(32:19):
you've seen the importance of that. Like these companies are
doubling down and reinvesting and reinvesting more, and it's way
more expensive today than it was yesterday. Right, But that
I feel like that human element is such an important
part of that.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Take just Campbell, have you ever seen a assistant coach
in the NHL, namely a man head coach, assistant coach,
equipment manager who cares, do get ready with me, look
at my hair and makeup and now watch me do
my job. No, first of all, no one wants to
see that, by the way, but when Jess Campbell does it,
I am glued to my phone. Oh tell me, I

(32:52):
haven't tried that same ponytail. I haven't tried the same suit. Like,
I'm obsessed with her, and it shows you a different level.
It's a woman in the sport doing something completely innovative
who every time she posts asks is questions about her
efficacy of her background. You know, she gets shredded, but
she nonetheless she persists and she kicks ass, Like, Yeah,

(33:15):
these are the things that we that we're now seeing
with this like media era and so like in your world,
how do you take charge? There's a big push for
women in the booth. Is that something that you're you're
kind of like aware that you're paving the way for?

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Like do you feel a burden on that? Are you
proud of that?

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Like?

Speaker 3 (33:31):
Yeah, so important?

Speaker 5 (33:32):
I think all of that. You know, I definitely am
aware and I am painfully aware that I'm the only
real American based play by play person for hockey. Like,
we've got a couple of great ones Danielle Uponticelli and
Kenzie Lalan are doing it up in Canada. Leah Hextall
used to have opportunities here at ESPN and then has
kind of been taken off play by play in the

(33:54):
past couple of years, and so we don't have any
other female voices calling hockey play by play, and so
that is a travesty in my opinion, and so yes,
I'm aware of it. Yes it is a burden, but
more than the word burden, which has a bit of
more of a negative connotation, I just feel such a
responsibility to be as prepared as I can be, to

(34:14):
not miss a call, to not miss a goal, to
make sure I'm calling the game right because I'm pretty
new at this still, like this is only my third season,
and it's not like I'm doing full eighty two game seasons, right,
Like I think I've done maybe close to fifty games total.
So with every game I try to get a little better.
But I know I'm painfully aware that I'm still very

(34:34):
new at this and still trying to get better. But
I just want to keep going to the point where,
like I might not be great, but at least it's
out there so that some little girl somewhere or a
college girl or whoever an adult woman for that matter,
could hear that and think, oh, I should try that.
No One told me like, you can't do this because

(34:55):
you're a woman, But I just never even considered it
because it was so foreign to think of a female
male voice calling the action.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yeah, and to your point, if you're going to get
questioned on every corner, it builds some level of mistrust
in what you're saying, and that's not correct. You're calling
the game, You're doing a phenomenal job. I love to
listen to your calls. There are some people, for sure
that I would prefer not to listen to when they're
calling a game. And then there's people that you just
gravitate towards. And I find like when we make hockey

(35:23):
more accessible, especially for women who head up their households,
who make buying decisions, who do all the things right,
they're the ones that remind everybody that the game's on.
I'm sure we like, why not cater to that ear
at least half the time, right, Like, where can we
make it better? But you know, when we look at
women's sports, right, and that's where I feel like women
make more space for women.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
There's also a.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
Huge ramp up in what kinds of productions they're getting,
the quality, the quality of people like yourself that are
able to then they can afford to then do the broadcasts.
You know, they're not big and borrowing talent, They're able
to acquire good talent. So how important is that alification
in the rise and success of women's sports and then
of women like yourself being able to traverse back and forth.

Speaker 5 (36:06):
Yeah, it's really important, especially because we'rell on the same
team here of trying to elevate the product. Right, But
like if you you know, you mentioned how you used
to be just in the stands, no producer, just kind
of like on a microphone. It probably didn't sound the best.
Who knows if you guys had any intermission content. You know,
Like things like that do matter because you know, people
at home are used to a certain level of broadcast

(36:28):
product when they turn on the TV for a men's game,
like they are used to seeing studio programming and multiple
phases and you know, they come on camera and then
they go back or they have replays or all these
things like that is important to also have on the
women's side if you're going to expect people to treat
the product as equal right like and and they should.

(36:49):
And now you know, we're seeing that investment where it
does matter, especially like the PWHL. They don't want just
anyone to come in and let's like have this be
a trial run for broadcasters like, No, they want people
who are going to make sure that they deliver the
product the same way the women on the ice are
delivering the product at the highest level.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Most of our listeners do follow the PWHL and women's talking,
but for those who don't, I mean it's you can
definitely tell the investment that has been made in both
marketing and the production side of things has just elevated
that league to a whole new level. So I applaud
you for everything you've done because it's made a huge
difference to us as athletes.

Speaker 5 (37:25):
Thanks. I'm honestly just happy to be along for the RED.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Last year, during games, my friends everybody in Manhattan would
text me, your.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Wife's on TV.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Your wife's on TV, and I would seriously, it was
like fifty bars every game because they would put them
on TV because the production quality was right. You know,
it's not streaming somewhere where they can't access it. It's
not behind a paywall that doesn't work, right, Like, that's
the barrier that has to break down, and that's what
we all fight for every day, right like media rights
and media access. If nobody knows, to your point, if

(37:55):
nobody's ever heard of female play by play player or
I mean play by player, or or if nobody's ever
watched a women's hockey game, what do they know about it?

Speaker 3 (38:03):
They have to go seek it out. And so to
normalize it is to love it.

Speaker 5 (38:08):
Yeah, and they're getting farther along. Like like you said, MSG,
they'll air the New York games. Nesson will air the
Boston Games. Minnesota's Regional Supports Network airs those games. I
think what I would really like to see happen next
year and please as soon as next year, is to
get a national partner as well. Because in Canada, like
it's on TSN, every game is on TSN, it is

(38:30):
nationally available. No matter where you live in the country,
you can watch every single PWHL game and that access
is critical. In the States, the access is there, YouTube
is there, and that's great and I'm not knocking it
because I love that the PWHL is smart enough to realize,
like it doesn't matter if we're not getting paid for YouTube.
At this point, we need people to watch these games.

(38:51):
And that's so great because I live in Bedwest. Now
my kids can't watch nesson, they can't watch MSG, you know,
so they can watch YouTube, which is great. But I
think that next level again is to get a paid
TV provider like put it on ESPN Plus. Even if
it's not going to be on ESPN proper, I don't care.
But like we got to be able to get CBS
Sports whatever it is, Like I would love to see

(39:12):
us get a US based national rights holder as well.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
It's interesting that you say that because I agree entirely.
I also, we were watching a game the other day
and I don't know if you can speak to this
or not, but I was watching a game the other
day Kaylee frat Kim was over. Actually the games on YouTube,
they they just play the music and like the ad
break versus you know, having ads to fill in or whatever.
But like we talk about the storytelling piece, Like for me,

(39:38):
I would love to see some kind of player contest
shoulder at least get someone's face, et cetera. But like you,
being someone who is a professional in the space, like
what would you do and or how important are those
things going forward as we continue to try to get
these athletes out here, like we try to grow it
and amplify it, Like what do you think we need.

Speaker 4 (39:57):
More of it and we can do better?

Speaker 5 (39:59):
Yeah, I'm I know. There has been a big push
this year to try to increase content with the players,
and so each team now has like a dedicated staff
that does like features for the team and we air
those during intermissions. I don't actually know if those come
across on YouTube or if it's just on the regional
sports network.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
This isn't an official answer.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
We have watched all the games, but I haven't, I don't,
I can't, I don't recall.

Speaker 4 (40:21):
I don't think I've seen that.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
I don't think we see shoulder content music, Yeah, got it?

Speaker 3 (40:25):
Okay, Well, so, like I feel like Montreal does a
great job.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
I feel like Montreal does all that shoulder content on
their social so I'm sure that also plays like on
broadcasts and stuff.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Yeah, but I love.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
A bunch of the players on Montreal because of their content.
I think it's hilarious, of course, and so I think
like when that's ever present, it's really obvious and also
draws you in. I am not a Montreal fan. I
will not root for them that, Like it's against my
blood in Boston and that I had a wife that
played in New York for that many years, So I'm
voting back against that one. But like, I think that

(40:57):
you're right right like and like keeping that content ever
green is really important. And then what are some other
like hopes that you have, because that's that you're behind
the iron veil like you see it, and what are
some things that you wish that we could see more
of from a spectator perspective?

Speaker 5 (41:12):
Yeah, I mean I always think it's got to be
player driven. Is my my preference, my priority. Like again,
i feel like I'm along for the ride, and I'm
super thankful that they're willing to continue to have me
along even though I live in Vegas and have to
fly across the country. They do these games in New
York and Boston, but hopefully we'll get you know, some

(41:33):
more western expansion soon and that would be that would
be wishless Number one is to like either have neutral
sites in like La Vegas, whatever. But the games we did,
I did the games in Seattle and Vancouver, and it
was just awesome. Seattle was epic, and then Vancouver was
next level, Like they want a team so badly, and
so that's like wishless one or two for me, right

(41:55):
is because I just think being able to access that
whole fan base is there. I mean, people who were
at those games, watch the PWHL, they just don't have
a team to go and support and be there, you know,
to fill the stands every single night. So I think
that'd be great. National rights holder definitely a big part
of that as well. And then I think just even

(42:16):
more access to players, Like for whatever reason, I feel
like the women I've interacted with are super open to
whatever we need from broadcasters. Like they're like, you want
to talk before the game, you want to talk two
days before the game on a zoom call, Like they're
just so used to that or maybe they're not used
to the kind of media attention and so they're fine

(42:36):
with it, Whereas for some reason on the male side,
like it's harder to get player access because they're just
like I just don't want to talk to me. I
want to focus on the game.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
Like make a million dollars to play it.

Speaker 5 (42:46):
Right, right, But yeah, as much as we could have
Like last year we had at All Star. It was
in Toronto and the women were also there as part
of All Star weekend for NHL, and so we ended
up I made sure to ask our producers we have
a two hour show every day, like we can have
a fifteen minute segment or a ten minute segment where
we bring women who are also here. And so we
had Megan Keller and Aaron Frankel on and they were great,

(43:08):
and like most of the players I've met are also
great talking on camera, So like, let's feed that more.
Let's like get more out of them, and whether that
means like bringing a player to set after a game,
like I think that would be there, Like by set,
I mean in the booth, Like obviously there's logistics around that,
but as much as we could get more out of

(43:30):
the players and share their personalities, their thoughts on the game,
their thoughts on their team, like the more the better.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
I love that And I think that the biggest thing
there is it's an entertainment product right at the end
of the day, Like the men have the luxury of
saying no because they have that money coming in regardless,
but like we it's an opportunity to provide further entertainment, right,
and continue to be accessible, provide yourself, opportunity for sponsors,
et cetera.

Speaker 4 (43:56):
And people love it.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Like that's the part of the game that people You
can watch a hockey anywhere, but to like get to
hear from someone interact with them, Like, that's the entertainment
factor that you can provide that differentiates you from any
other hockey game you go to.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Well, you said something there that really popped out to me,
and it's kind of it brings it makes my mom
brain like twitch. You talked about like the travel, Like
right now you're traveling all the time, and youing from
home in Vegas to New York City to Boston to
all the places. You know, that probably puts a lot
of strain at home and naturally adds the guilt. Right,

(44:48):
So talk to us a little about the other side
of your life right where we talk about like the
mom part of you. Because you have two babies, they're
doing a thousand things, right, you have to kind of
go be everywhere all the time.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
How do you balance that? How does that balance work
for you?

Speaker 5 (45:03):
Yeah, it's really tricky. I thought it'd get easier the
older they got because you know, at least they're sleeping
through the night for the most part, and it's still
not getting much easier, But it starts with us supportive
partner really first and foremost. And my husband's always been
really supportive of my career in understanding that, like, luckily
he works in healthcare tech and so he can work anywhere,

(45:24):
but it's not without sacrifice, right, Like he's picked up
and moved three or four different times to different cities
because that's where my job opportunity was and now that
we have kids, like that is a part of why
it's actually why we moved to Vegas was because we
wanted to be closer to family, fully knowing that there
were no PWHL teams anywhere near here, and there's you know,

(45:46):
an NHL team here, but there's not a lot of
other sports. Yet they're coming, you know, we're in baseball.
We'll get an NBA team eventually. But yeah, it was
really truly a leap of faith to do what we
thought was best for our family and be able to
you know, buy a house and have a yard. We
were living in a high rise and Hoboken for the
last nine years and it was great, but like at
some point we wanted to kind of have the more

(46:08):
traditional lifestyle for our kids and all of our families
out west, and so that was why, you know, we
did take a leap of faith to do this, and
knowing full well that if I was going to keep
my career going and try to keep doing play by play,
it was going to require cross country travel, and that
has been hard. It's been really hard, especially on my husband.

(46:29):
But the kids are actually really great about it. I
feel like they're used to it now and they, you know,
they watch a lot of the games, and my daughter's
so funny. She's three, and she'll just you know, put
on her little person, I have to go to hockey,
be good for daddy, And that's where her like go
to thing. I have to go to hockey, be good
for daddy. Apparently I say that, but yeah, it's it's

(46:52):
definitely the mom guilt. Your can't escape that. I love
what I do and I don't regret pushing for this
and trying to keep going because I think it is important.
And luckily my head's been understands that too. He also
agrees that I have the opportunity that very very very
few women have ever had and so if I can

(47:12):
do this and make something out of it, like that
is just so special and I might as well keep trying.
I want to get back to the whole idea of
not enough women are doing it, and like people can say,
oh I don't like so and so, or I don't
like you know, her style. There aren't enough of us
doing it to have a spectrum where you can say, like,
this person's great, this person's not so great, this person's

(47:34):
in the middle. We need a spectrum because right now,
there's great male play by play announcers. There's guys I
prefer not to listen to, but you can pick. It's
not like you're listening and saying, oh, I just hate
right when men call play by play. No, the reason
people are saying that about women is because we should.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Start saying that more.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Maybe we get more women in the booth, we should
just all start tweeting that.

Speaker 5 (47:57):
Oh, like I mean, that's where it's like, oh, I
don't like just hearing a woman's voice. It's like, no,
it's just because you're not used to it, and like
maybe you don't like that particular woman in the booth,
but just because you don't like her style, doesn't it
just because someone doesn't like my style shouldn't discount all
women play by play announcers, right, Like, you can not
like my style, but the more women we have, you

(48:18):
could like someone else's style better, and that is the goal.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Well, and I think that there's an added element as
well for moms, like there is a stigma associated with
women in sport, which is slowly being broken down, but
it's still there.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
It's still harder to be a woman than a man
and get a job in.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
Sports, full stop.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
It's probably provable by data, but you are also a mom,
right and also a shining example of how all of
that can be done. And so aside from the obvious, like,
why should people who are in positions to make decisions
continue to give opportunities to moms?

Speaker 4 (48:49):
And also do you think.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
That there are parts aspects of being a mom that
make you better at your job day to day?

Speaker 5 (48:55):
One hundred percent yes, I think. I think it's very
important for people to continue to give jobs and opportunities
to moms, not just women, because it's important to prove
to everyone that you can do both. And whether it's
you know, working mom in this field specifically or any
other field, tech anything like that's more traditionally male focused.

(49:17):
I just think it's really important to have people understand
that you can be a mom and have a career,
no matter what that field of work is. My husband
also works at a very progressive company that like that
he had more parental leave than I had in my job,
but that has also really been valuable to him. I
mean he's not the traditional man that just like comes

(49:38):
home from a long day of work, He's like, where's dinner?
Like I do not cook. He cooks everything. He makes
all the meals, like I can do breakfast because he
has a lot of early morning meetings, so I'll put
toaster waffles down or whatever, you know, like I can
handle little things. I was just saying an ego exactly
my specialty. In fact, my kid wrote that on like

(49:59):
his paper last year about like why he loves mom
is like she makes the best waffles, like oh man,
like pushing a button like nailed it, nailed it. Like
we don't have those traditional gender roles, so to speak,
in this house. And I think a lot more American
families are becoming that way, right or like obviously your
family with two moms, like that's that's awesome too, and

(50:21):
like there aren't traditional gender roles there, so that's really cool.
But back to your question about investing in moms, Like,
I think parents in general have learned how to multitask,
have learned how to be patient. Like there's just a
lot of things that go into being a parent of
young kids and being a professional that are valuable.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yeah, I mean it's always like, will you make more
concessions for me as a young mom with two little ones?

Speaker 3 (50:47):
Same with Maddie as a.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Player, right, Like, yes, I need more support, but what
I have to give might be on fumes, right Like
I might be dying inside, but I have empathy, I
have a great sense of love, I have purpose, I
have other things that I can contribute. You know, what
you do is so hugely important. We always wrap with

(51:09):
this very important question, and mostly so Maddie and I
can get some help, but we always ask the same question.
So you know that being said, what is the best
piece of parenting advice that you have received? Or if
you feel like someone didn't tell you, like the answers
to the test that you wish you knew, What is
that one silver bullet piece of advice that you've received,

(51:30):
or that you could give that you wish you had
before becoming a mom.

Speaker 5 (51:33):
I think it's just that everything is a phase that
has saved my sanity more times than I can count,
because I go back to early days of COVID. We
had a ten month old at the time, just one.
My son was almost a year when COVID really hit.
We shut down for four months. So I've never dreamt

(51:54):
of being a full time mom. That's great for people
who dream of that, that has never been a dream
of mine. And I was then thrust into being a
full time mom. I was fortunate enough to suddenly have
a paycheck but also be home full time with my
ten month old and learn how hard full time momming is.
And there were days where you know, my husband was

(52:16):
on calls literally like eight to five, like in our bedroom.
We lived in this tiny two bedroom apartment that was
like a thousand square feet and weren't going outside because
we were in New York City. Like the craziness that
the hub of it all in the early days. Anyway,
I digress, but all that to say that there were
days I remember staring at the clock and being like
I swear I looked at it like an hour ago

(52:37):
and it's only been five minutes, Like how am I
going to get through this day? Like when is he
going to stop crying? Or when is he going to
stop fussing? Or what? Da da da da? And it's
a phase. It's everything really is a phase. And now
like I would give almost anything to go back and
have like those little squishy cuddle moments with him just
being so needy and so fascinated by everything I was

(53:00):
doing and not playing with his friends like he does
now you know, so so again like whether it's good
or whether it's bad, Like everything is a phase, and
just try to remember that so that you don't get
bogged down in the bad times and also just appreciate
the good times that we need.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
To tattoo that on some foreheads here, pat.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Sometimes we can be like the breakfast this morning.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
Yeah, this morning at breakfast, we were in a bad spot.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
But I will say, free pancake day at I Hoop
is a win and we should always when it's freaking
cake day at I Hop we should go. Yes, it
was amazing. We all everyone got a short stack. Everyone
was like pulling each other's hair. We were like screaming
we were throwing stuff.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
It was It was a lot.

Speaker 5 (53:41):
But I like what you said it everybody, I do
think there's like more often than not where we go
out to dinner and we're like why do we even try?
What was the point of spending money going out to dinner?
If now we're just embarrassed among all these other people
and the kids don't like the food or they're like
what was the point. But I will say again, everything's

(54:03):
a phase because we're like unlocking a new life level
or something. Because our kids now they're three and a
half and five and a half and they're actually lovely
to take to dinner and they get excited about it.
We call it date night and they like get to
go back and forth. Well they're not there yet though,
Like they're close right, Like how how they're there?

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Are in two?

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (54:24):
Four and two and two?

Speaker 5 (54:26):
Maybe in another year, year and a half, you'll get
there where you feel like you can take them out
and it's an enjoyable experience for everyone.

Speaker 6 (54:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Right now, right now, we stare at each other across
the table mad because that's like naturally the only person
you fight with is your spouse and.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
I we stare at each other, we go, are we
having fun? Is this fun? Is this fun?

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Like we always have to like gut check, and then
we're like no, no, but we're both not having fun.

Speaker 3 (54:50):
So it's perfect. We don't have to fight because everyone's upset.

Speaker 5 (54:53):
Oh my gosh, amazing.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Well. I love your I love your feedback. I mean,
I love everything that you've said.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Honestly, we were so fortunate to have you on the show,
fortunate to have your perspective, and really fortunate to be
part of the team that advocates for more and better
and women in the booth and sports broadcasting on the ice,
in every walk of life that we try to touch.
So thank you for joining us on These Packs Puck
and I can't wait to hear you on the next call.

Speaker 5 (55:20):
Thank you so much and keep crushing it because I
think your voices are so important in this space and
in every space.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
And that's all we have today.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
Thank you for listening.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
I'm Onya Packer and I'm Madison Packer and this is
These Packs Puck.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
These Packs Puck is a production of iHeart Women's Sports
in Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
It's hosted by us Madison and Onya Packer. Emily Meronov
Is our awesome senior producer and story editor. We were
mixed and mastered by Mary Doo. Our executive producers are
Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz and Ali Perry.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
Stand Stop