May 27, 2025 • 46 mins
Hockey can be a platform for positive change. The Packers know this well and so does their long-time friend and colleague, Kate Whitman Annis. As Executive Director of the New Jersey Devils Youth Foundation, Kate promotes equity in the Devils’ surrounding community by inspiring kids, particularly young girls, to get into hockey. To Madison and Anya, Kate is also an exceptional leader–one who navigated tough discussions as general manager of the Riveters and expertly handled the chaos of raising four boys. Listen to hear how she learned to lead by example and to hear her and the Packers reminisce about their wild days on the Riveters.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, everyone, Welcome to these packs puck. I'm Madison Packer.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And I'm Anya Packer. Madison and I are both former
pro hockey players. We met through hockey and fell in love,
and now we're married with two awesome toddlers, ages two
and four.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
These days, we're opening up about the chaos of our
daily lives, between the juggle of being athletes, raising kids.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
And all the messiness in between.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So buckle the puck up because there is a lot
to talk about.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
What's up? Popeye?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Not? You started with a Popeye reference? So rude?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
For context?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Anya has a massive patch on her eye right now.
She had to have a little booboo removed.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, for context, Anya just had surgery on her eye
and I came back to chew.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
It up with you. So you're welcome, all right.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Well, the Packers are home back in southern Connecticut. We
are happy to be here. I've been reunited with my
lego room. Anya has finally had the nine month long
sty removed from her eye, and yep, spring is in
full bloom.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Yes knew, I knew me. What's the hot take today?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Pack hoty hot take?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
The hot take today is I am not a huge
fan of the expansion rules, which probably shocks no one.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Let's hit it, okay, So the league's expansion drafts will
be as followed. The team set up a list of
three players to protect. During the first protection round. Only
players signed through twenty twenty five or six whose rights
remain on the team can be protected. Pending free agents
cannot be protected. The team's pre draft window from June
fourth to eighth, where both expansion teams will be allowed
(01:36):
to sign a maximum of five players each. An unprotected
player or protected player on expiring deal can kind of
sign within that window. And then once each team in
the you know, actual teams that are reserving protecting players,
once they have lost two players, they can select one
additional player to then be protected. So you can protect three,
(01:59):
and then one two are pulled from your roster. You
can then hail Mary protect one more.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I don't necessarily disagree with the format, right. I understand
that you have to have an expansion draft and you
have to somehow put together these teams. The problem for
me is that that just feels way too gladiator esque
in the current world that we live in. Right, You've
got players that are on a tick above minimum wage,
(02:23):
contracts who will not be protected. I won't name the teams,
but if you're among some teams, you're kind of hoping
that those players get taken off your hands if they're
signed to a deal that that is too long. Now
when you look at how you want to reshape your roster,
and now we're going to ship those players halfway across
the country to a market that is more expensive to
live in and the one that they've been living in.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I think a more poignant piece of this is that
like that like Hail Mary fourth reserve, because I think
it's really hard. Like if you look at a roster
like Montreal, right like, let's get let's get into it
a little bit. Montreal, you have Poulen, Stace, Ambrose, and
Debien off the jump that I would assume are some
(03:05):
of the big ones.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
How do you navigate just those four?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Like? Because are you willing to lose Debien? Are you
willing to see if somebody's some GM is gutty enough
to split up Stacey and Pulen? Are you willing to
lose Ambrose?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Like?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I think the fourth save after losing two players is
actually really tough for these gms.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, and I think right, like the Devil's Advocate.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
To my point is that if you're a player on
a three year contract that would now be two year,
and you're not protected and I'm talking about being moved
across different expenses, whatever, you're probably not gonna get picked
in an expansion draft because those expansion players, they're trying
to pick the cream of the crop, you know, and
get who they can. I just I still think that
there needs to be a middle ground to what we're doing.
(03:53):
And like the pushback and the and the comment on
my stance on that as oh, that's not professional, Like,
yeah it is. I mean it's I think it's unprofessional
to send people into environments that they're not prepared to
be in just to prove a point.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I think the other element that's really difficult is when
you start the league off by saying you can sign
three players and then have a draft, like you've already
selected these three players to be your founding players and
now you're only giving them three and then the hail
Mary one. It doesn't leave you any room to either
keep your founders or keep any of your draft picks.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Well, in my opinion, the reason why, right you look
at the turnover from from season one to season two.
I mean there was like fifty to sixty percent of
the veteran playerpool eliminated in one season.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So then you look at now who's coming back, what's
the composition of a team going to be rookies with veterans,
with rookies in market like all these things, there's just
no way to know. And I think that the reality
of the situation is when you look at the rosters,
they're trying to build the best teams possible, right, so
you have to give Seattle and Vancouver the biggest opportunity
(05:06):
to take what they have declared and deem as the best. Currently,
everyone's gonna get their first crack at the new players,
but that veteran pool is already somewhat depleted. Respectfully, you
have a lot of rookies in that pool, so there's
a lot of those players that no one's even gonna
look at. They're all going to be fighting over the
same ones. So I think that maybe that's why the
(05:27):
league said, Okay, you can only protect x amount, because
otherwise everyone's just gonna protect their top guns and there's
gonna be no movement.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
That's entirely unfair to Seattle and Vancouver.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, but I mean think about the NHL Golden Knights
literally went on two really solid playoff pushes afterward. I mean,
I think if you take the second and third line
players from every single roster in any pro league and
then give them the confidence in time and space and energy,
they'll become a one players or have the propensity to
(05:58):
right like some leagues can. Some leagues can't. So but
I just think three is such an arbitrary number on
a hockey team. It's not even in your starting line.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
But I think it boils down to you can't.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
They just couldn't give teams the ability to protect more
than that, because otherwise it wouldn't be fair. Because there's
that big of a gap in the top and in
the bottom. Fifty to sixty percent of the former veteran
pool that, in my opinion, would have been considered in
the upper bottom or the top of the bottom or
the bottom of the top is gone.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
That's a lot of that's a lot of spots you
gotta fill.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I agree, I agree fully. I think it was done.
It was done. The expansion draft rules were made. I
don't agree with them. I think that there's probably a
better way, and I still can't get over you pick
three founding members to be the backbone of your roster
before you even drafted a single player in the creation
of the league, and those players were all on three
year deals.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
If you're just looking at it from an.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Apples to apples like logic, you picked three players to
be the founding members of each franchise, whether Sophie Jakes
gets traded or not, Like, I get it, but but
you've selected three, you've got to at least ride those
contracts out, and if you do, those are the players
that you protect. And I don't agree that those are
the players. I would not protect those players in every
(07:14):
single roster. So it creates.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I would have thought we'd see like five or six
yeah maybe, or like two to two.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
In a goalie or something. Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Like then create stipulations.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
It can't be a player that's logged over twenty minutes
TOI per game, which for most teams that's five players,
the same five players. So let them choose three of
those players and then choose two ten cut tois. I
don't know how you do it, but it just has
to be a different, different, system.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
All right, we're gonna end this hot take with a
fun little game food listeners.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Pick your pack, we'll call it.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Oh yeah, Okay, go for it.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Who do you think is gonna be the biggest winner
out of this scenario aside from Vancouver and Seattle. Which
current team do you think will be the biggest winner
from this expansion draft? I think the biggest winner out
of the whole situation will be Toronto.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I think Toronto.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I think it's a great opportunity for Toronto to get
to fill holes where holes currently exist.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
In a non combative way.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
See here's where I here's where I think the winner
will be. As I think the clearest path to who
the three is, in my opinion, is Ottawa. So I'm
going Ottawa. I'm shipping Ottawa for a period of time.
I'm team Ottawa right now. But I think that the
clearest path of who's obviously identifiably the person that I
would keep. And we can get into that later, but
(08:40):
I think Ottawa's going to take the cake.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
All right, pick your pack, let us know what you think.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Let's hear it, baby, All right, Maddie, Now we're gonna
we're gonna go into my favorite part of the episode,
especially today. Where are you at?
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Where are you at? From one to one hundred. Let's
do a little check.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And I know you're not in Florida, so you can't
say we're in Florida. I'm amazing. How are you getting
back into the home?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I am a crisp thirty two. Oh right now. Yeah,
it's a struggle.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I know you're going to be short of fifty as well,
so we'll have to figure that out later. But we
don't have childcare, which is really really difficult, and the
grass is really tall, and the backyard is a mass and.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
There's a lot to get done here.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
With no extra hands to watch the littles who keep
popping into our recording studio.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Mm well, no, mom mae is in full effect, and
the grass is beautiful and it's healthy and green and lush,
So I'm not taking that into a negative tick on us.
I will say, though, I am really not feeling great.
I had my eyes sliced open today and it is throbbing.
It's only going to get worse because the numbing is
(09:50):
wearing off. My glasses are hitting the patch that I'm
wearing on my eye, so my other eye is giving
me a migraine. So all that to say that doesn't
feel great. I don't love the kids thing. I'm really
busy at work. We did a couple of days off
to travel, which our weekend road trip was amazing. So
I think net net, I'm probably around like a forty five.
(10:10):
So all that to say, I'm still better than you.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
So that puts us out a Oh boy, that's really low.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
We're seventy something. Where are right seesed get degrees?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Not in childcare?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Oh if anyone can handle it, and anyone knows what
to do, it is our next guest, Kate Whitmananas. Kate
is a longtime friend. She runs the New Jersey Devil's
Youth Foundation. She is a former general manager turned investor
in the league.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
She was a coach.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
She's literally worn a thousand hats, but I think most
notably she's a mom of all boys, which we know
is complete chaos.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
It is a very insane.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Dynamic between her and her husband Craig, and she really
jumps into that.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
And I'm excited to talk to Kate.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I am so excited for our chat and our guest today, Kate,
thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
We're pumped.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Thanks for having me, welcome.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
Thanks, it's good to see you too the Conmancial Center.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Long time no see, and it's nice to see you
a minute in our own space.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
So for me, Kate was first my coach, so then
my boss. We'll actual, you know, it's back up for a second.
First trailblazer, then coach, then.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Boss, then investor.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Now back oh.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah investor, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, and then now trailblazer again,
slash colleague, slash.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Woman who elevates women.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Friends here, you also get to be a friend.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah friend, No, come on easy. He's but started as
my coach and has been a leader in women's hockey for.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
A long time.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
We know Kate for all those things, and she also
did all of those amazing things with the Riveters, So
in the prior hockey world we got to duke it out.
Sometimes we were always on the same team, sometimes on
the opposite sides of a similar fight. But at the
end of the day, I also interfaced because I was
on the whale, then I was ahead of the player association.
(12:26):
But in a thousand different ways we work together. So
it's nice to see you in your new role. We're
really excited to talk about all the things that transpired
to that point to get to where you are. And
also a mom of four and honestly, more times than
not now will like message over social media about what
chaos we're getting into with these kids. So thank you
for coming on these packs, Puck.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Yeah, thanks, it's great to be here. And then also,
you know, just to have the relationships that we have,
and like Anya's right, like we were on different sides sometimes,
but like you can do that respectfully, Like you can
disagree and you can be like, Okay, well I don't agree,
but like that doesn't stop you from being a good
colleague and a good friend and someone who still supports
(13:08):
women no matter what right. And I think it's really
important that we do that for each other, and that
we disagreed respectfully and are able to move past it.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
It's super hard.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
It's a strong person to be able to disagree respectfully
versus to get emotional and to get frustrated and to
get defeatist.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
Right, And like when I started as GM of the Ribs,
it was the first GM. My second day I came
here to work at the Devils, I was not working.
I came into my office and we were asked to
leave the Crudential Center and so like it started with
just such chaos and it.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Was a new league.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
We didn't know what we're doing, Like there was a lot.
One of the things that was so hard for me
was I couldn't do some of the things that I
wanted right, Like there was no money right, so trying
to make athletes feel like the profession that they should
and that what we're seeing now in this new league,
which is so cool to watch, Like, like I wanted that,
(14:06):
and it just killed me that I had to say
no all the time.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
It was just well, but I love that we started
this conversation this way because you had a particularly difficult
job because you came in after Chad, who was awesome,
loved him great, He abandoned us like we won, he left,
he was gone on the bigger, better things.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Randy love him.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Not the right guy at the right time for the job,
and you were his assistant coach. So there was a
lot of poor over right, And then it's like, well, no,
Kate would make a great GM. Well then Kate and
Harrit's a lot of just like mock and crap and
a very expensive market in a situation that's not ideal
with the rank all these things you said, and year
after year after year it was that, and then.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
It was COVID like oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And like so too your point in the moment, like yeah,
athletes push back, and like, as an athlete looking back,
you're like, well yeah, da da da da. But I
think the coolest part of it all for full circle honestly,
and why our relationship and like you said, friendship has
continued to remain so strong. It's like in the moment,
you're like, why can't you just see it or like
whatever it looks like right, but you understand it from
(15:20):
my perspective. I understand it from your perspective. So at
the end of the day, when you're like they're a
piece of shit or I disagree or whatever, it is
like you sit on it for a minute and you're like,
oh yeah. And so for me years removed, I applaud
you tremendously. It's incredible to me to see what you're
doing now with the Devil's Youth, Devil's Foundation, Devil's in general.
(15:43):
All you span all things, and I want to dive
into that because the work that you have been propelled
to continue to do is incredible. But I first want
to applaud you because you were starting when startuping wasn't
happening in hockey, and it isn't where it is now
without you Anya too, and you guys work together.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
But that's important. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (16:04):
I mean, it took a lot of people to get
where it is today. I feel super lucky hockey.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I came to it kind of late.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
I was twelve. I had been figure skating. My parents
had always encouraged me to play hockey, and I never
wanted to do it because no girls were doing it.
And I went up to Lake Placid to compete in
a figure skating contest and they made me dress up
like a smurf with the hat and everything went out
for my two minutes on the ice after seven hours,
and that was it. I never put on figure skates
(16:33):
again and just started to play hockey and it's somehow
been a part of my life ever since then. So
in high school, in college, and then even after college
I played. I had my kids, they all started to play,
and that's how I got back into coaching when they
were little, and ended up after riveters and coaching high
school and everything ended up here at the Devils, and
(16:55):
I truly believe I have the best job in the
world because I have the really fun part of sport.
I run the philanthropy.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Piece of it.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
So all of the work that we're doing with our
grant partners out in our communities comes through my team,
and it is so great because we can go out,
we can see immediate impact, right, So we're raising funds
and then we're giving them out. We just approved one
point three million dollars in funding all across New Jersey,
mostly Northern New Jersey, but all across it. We are
focused on promoting youth through arts and arts and access
(17:27):
to equitable arts education, food and nutrition, security, creating safe
spaces and that's mental and physical safe spaces for kids,
and then also promoting getting kids active and moving and
so it's really exciting, fun work. It's different every day,
and I still have the funds out of sports, right
and getting to watch hockey all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
So it's literally the perfect job for you, because I
would say, and one of our kind of like thoughts
here was every stage of your life that we've had
to engage you know, more closely. You had to build trust,
really quickly women's sports. You get the job and you
immediately have to start taking things over and then you
have to build a trust really quickly, and it's not
an easy thing to do. And I think everybody that's
(18:08):
ever played for you around you would say that that's
something that they know that there's trust there. There's a
lot of that mutual respect, that trust. So how do
you think you have access to it?
Speaker 4 (18:18):
How do you unlock that?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
And now you know, how does that follow you through
to the youth foundation?
Speaker 5 (18:26):
Right? So, I really believe in everything that I do,
and I again feel pretty lucky to be able to
say that, because I don't think everybody is able to
do that or able to be a part of something
that they really believe in. And so becoming an investor
just made sense to us because we wanted to support
the league and that's what they needed, like they needed cash,
(18:48):
so we did just because we truly believe in women's
sports and in women's hockey and whatever way I can help,
I'm going to do that. So being here in work,
I actually started coaching again for Eastside High School here,
which has been fantastic. It's a very different experience than
my other high school coaching just because the girls are
(19:09):
a little newer to the game, so there's a lot
of teaching how to skate and things like that. But
it is an awesome experience and they work so hard
just to get to the arena. So it's been how
can I live authentically promoting the things that I believe
in and being a part of moving that forward, and
(19:31):
so coaching has always been a part of that. And
then as the Riveters came along, it just made sense
to really dig in in whatever way the league needed
at the time.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, I mean it's amazing, and I think, you know,
I was fortunate enough to take over the general manager
spot after you so, right, so I benefited from a
lot of that foundation laying and then could go to
the community with some of those things. Right, I had
a new investor group, I had more budget, I had
the ability to hire folks to start touching the community.
So and then at that time, you know, you transition
(20:02):
to the foundation, then we had a different type of
relationship because what you were tasked to do and the
way that you're tasked to move in Newark and the
way that you're tasked to grow in the state of
New Jersey, was all things that we wanted to do too.
With an endless budget, we would have been best friends. Right,
But that's where that caveat of being able to maintain
each shifting role and having those hats change and still
(20:24):
being really authentic is so important. And I think that's
where Madison and I constantly harald you for always being
the same person, right, Like there's no chameleon in the conversation.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
It really is the same, the same person.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
All the time.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Come on back, it's always the same person. And I
think we always me.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
After eleven at Whisper and whiskeys.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
See, that's like it's a hard line right when you're
gm you want to be friends, but maybe.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Not so much.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Not what Madison is what we've learned.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
Yeah, there's some videos though that I wish I hadn't
seen you.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
So I wish that too, Kate, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
So we work together at the Riveters for three years
for somewhere in there, and then you pivot to the devils, right.
Being a woman in men's hockey is hard to one
even get in the door and get and get the job.
But you're doing it and you're doing very well, and
(21:19):
you're in your whole organization, right, Megan Duggan scouting.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
It's a surprise the teams in the playoffs. It's all
because of a woman, in my opinion, M Madigan, our assistant.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah so, but jokes aside, you guys are doing real innovative,
cool things and you have qualified women in roles where
differences are being made. Two questions, One why is the
community aspect so vitally important what you're doing specifically?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And two?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Why is it just important that we continue to have
women in roles that they're qualified to have?
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Because like, why so, there's there's a couple of things.
Our organization does have a lot of women, and they've
done that really purposefully. There is a reason that they
want to have other people's opinions in the room because
it makes it a more vibrant and interesting place to be.
(22:15):
People come up with better and more interesting ideas that
engage our fans and engage our communities. So I count
myself as really lucky that I work here, don't I
don't know. I haven't worked at another club, so I'm
only going to speak from my experience here at the Devils.
I have heard from other places it is not the same, right,
and so I think we're pretty lucky here. That starts
(22:37):
with our ownership group. So we're owned by a company
called Harris Blitzer Sports and Entertainment. They own a bunch
of different sports clubs across all different NHL, NFL, NBA,
all of it. And our owners are Josh Harris and
David Blitzer. They and their wives Marjorie and Alison care
(22:57):
deeply about the community and they talk about it all
the time, and so it trickles down from the top.
So we are if five oh one c three were
separate from our business, but we're embedded in the business.
So I sit here in the office with everybody. We
work really closely with our finance team, our legal team,
our partnership team, our marketing team. So people lean in
(23:18):
and yes, I think they're great and they would do
it no matter what because they're good people. But it's
really helpful when you have an ownership group that is
so invested in it, and they make that so clear.
So at the beginning of every season, Alse and Blitzer,
who is the chair of the Devil's Youth Foundation, and
I go and we meet with the team, the current players,
and we talk to them about what the foundation is
(23:41):
what it could mean, how they could get involved if
they want to, like how we're going to ask them
to get involved. And that happens every year. So there's
a lot of education that goes on, and it's really
helpful to have people at that level, the ownership level,
talking about it and leaning in and being a part
of it, like an active part of it. The lot
I'm you know, I think every club now has a foundation.
(24:03):
So having you know, the owners on our board who
really I mean, Allison cares deeply about this and I
talk to her every week. I mean, she's an active
part of the foundation, and she's an active part of
driving the strategy and what it means to be in
the community and what she wants to see and what
the business wants to see. And so I firmly believe
(24:25):
that you can do good and you can help the
business at the same time, and you can do that impactfully.
You can make a huge difference, and you can create
goodwill in the community, and you can get your brand
out there and maybe you make some lifelong Devils fans
and maybe you just help a kid go to school,
right and so like that to me is awesome on
(24:45):
both sides, right. I don't think it's one or the other.
I think you can do both.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
And you said something that's I think so foundational here
is that it's coming from the top and it's meant
to be good, right, Like how hockey culture. Maddie and
I talk about this all the time on like this
large soap box needs to be better, Like it needs
to be infused with goodness. And I think something that
we always look for is who the allies and the
(25:12):
goodness are. And it's clear that you found them at Devils.
It's clear that you found them, you know, in that
larger ownership group. How much do you champion it across
other teams, Like do you work with other foundations?
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Do you support other foundations to educate them?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
We always say it's one of the things that's really
missing in our culture of hockey.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
My colleagues at the NHL, the other thirty one heads
of the foundations are awesome and we all share so
many ideas. So every year the league has league meetings
somewhere in the country. Last year was the first time
we had a foundation track, so we all got together
and it was great. We're going to do it again
this year and We just share best practices, and you know,
(25:53):
I have stolen like ten ideas from other foundations, particularly
the black Hawks. They're a great one and they've, like
other foundations have come to us to talk about our gala,
how we did it? Could they use these ideas? And
so it's a really collaborative environment, at least in the
foundation piece. So I really love that. Like when I
travel with the team or if I go to an
(26:13):
away game, I always see my counterpart there. We are
always talking and trying to figure out what works best,
Like are there things we can change? Are there ideas
we can use that have worked really well for other people,
So we're not sort of reinventing the wheel and using
best practices.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
It's definitely the rising tie raises all mentality. Maddy and
I have been entrenched more recently with the NHL Foundation,
and you know when we see and do events with them,
like we saw with yours with the sweep the deck,
like it's a different way of looking at it's still
an iceport.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
So you guys, tell us a little bit about the
gala because.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I'm always blown away with what the hockey community can
truly do.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
So the gala is our big fundraiser, or our big
annual fundraiser, and we wanted to do something different than
one of the than the sit down, not the time
with the sit down, awards dinner, those are fine, but
we wanted to do something else that was a little
bit fun. So it is a curling at cards event
on the big ice. So it just like there's a
lot of fun and interesting things that people don't necessarily
(27:12):
get to do. One just being in the center of
the ice, like you never get to do that. That's
really fun. And then curling, which is a lot harder
than it looks. I was like, oh, curling, please, Like
I skated my whole life, and then I went out
and fell immediately, which everybody does. It's great. There's pictures somewhere,
but it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Curling is crazy hard. It's hard.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Yeah, they're heavy and like you have to balance the.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Right way and just validating your story. Sorry.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
And then there's a card piece of it, so a
gambling piece, although it's all for charity, you're not actually
gambling any money. We have about eight hundred and fifty
people and the great, really cool part about it is
that our players come and hopefully they bring, you know,
a significant other, a friend, They get a plus one
and they hang out and they will rote tape between curling,
(28:02):
bartending and playing cards, and so there's just a ton
of interaction with people who are in the building with
the players. They are so lovely, they stick around when
they really don't have to, and that again is a
testament to the organization being all in on the foundation
and all in on the community work.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So we were able to raise.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
Two million dollars this year, which is our largest today
is a lot.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
So you raised two million dollars, that's absolutely incredible in
the first place, and knowing where it's going across the
community is also equally as incredible. But you guys also
have a women's team now in the building. How much
from a foundation standpoint or from a learn to play like,
how much are you seeing the girls game grow or girls.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
In the building? Is it making an effect on it?
Do you see a change there?
Speaker 5 (28:53):
So one of our largest partners is Hockey in New Jersey,
which is nonprofit here in Newark, and so we did
our first multi year grant with them. So we're in
the second year of a three year term and that
was specifically to benefit and build their girls youth programming.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
So we do a lot of work that way.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
What you can see right over my head, the Jersey
Girls is an internal I know it's so cute, is
an internal learn to play program through us. So you
go to learn to skate, then you come to learn
to play and you are part of Jersey Girls Hockey Club.
Because we've found a gap between the learn to play
and then like going right into travel, there was like
a lot, not a lot of house league things for
(29:34):
just girls, and so we wanted to create a program
just for girls and that is run through our Youth
Hockey and Growth Initiatives team and they do a great job.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
So we're trying to.
Speaker 5 (29:41):
Build that program as well as supporting other nonprofits in
the area, particularly around growing their girls. We did a
lot of work actually in the fall with McKenzie studying
girls fitness and sports and when girls drop out, which
is in middle school, which makes a lot of sense, right,
there's a lot of things comput for their time. It
maybe isn't so cool anymore. There's a lot of social
(30:04):
stuff that's going on in middle school for boys and girls,
a lot of pressure and so we really wanted to
focus this year on keeping girls in sports. So our
playoff initiative is called the Playoff Push. We're trying to
raise fifty thousand dollars in the first round through a
combination of our fifty to fifty, an online auction, and
direct donations, and that will go to support youth sports
(30:26):
programming in Newark in the summer and so it will
be a girls ball hockey league in the summer. So
we try to do as much as we can around that,
and then we work really closely with our business side
to see what they're doing and how are we working together,
how are we, you know, driving this initiative forward.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
And as far as.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
The PW and our building like they are awesome, we
work with them really closely. So we run a fifty
to fifty for them for certain games. We try to
amplify everything they do on our socials. That's for DyF
for the foundation, and then our marketing team on the
Devil's side also leans in pretty heavily with them as well.
I would like to see better crowds. It's hard to
(31:07):
look at the crowds that they're getting in Canada and
then wonder why you're not getting them here and now, Mason,
like you said, like we moved around a lot, right,
So I think when you guys won the cop here,
you had started to build a fan base and there
are people coming over and over again. And then we
left and we were three different ranks and it was
kind of a mess. And now they're back here and
(31:28):
it's that build up again. But I don't know, Like
then you look at Canada and they've got eighteen thousand
people in the building, which is amazing, So.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
How do we fix that? Well?
Speaker 3 (31:37):
So I actually love that you just said that, because
it's been the hardest part of the transition for me
is what was and what's become. Right, And I say
it every time, I'll say it again. I love my counterparts.
I have nothing but respect for the staff. I understand
that what we're doing is difficult. However, I think that
(31:57):
what you're doing is the missing piece, and community matters,
especially right now, right especially right now where the world
is hard and stuff's going on, and that you just
don't know, like whether it's hockey in Newark or hockey
in Harlem or whatever, it looks like what kids play hockey, right,
(32:20):
you just want to access the sport. You just want
to be part of a community, and I think that's
the hardest part of everything that's evolving in the women's game.
Like you would think, similarly to what Anya said, a
rising tide lifts all, but it's a very different fan base. Yeah,
you have crossover in hockey, but it's just different. So
(32:42):
if we can all just at bare minimum invest in community,
I think that's so important. You're a boy mom to four,
(33:04):
Everyone just like take a breath and let that settle in.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
It's a lot of boys.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Kate is an athletic mom.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
There's a lot of boys in that house, A four voice.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
All pretty close in age. I'm going to give a
shout out to Walker. I'm his favorite, got his hair
like me, you are, But real talk. What's it like
transitioning from being an ultracompetitive Your mom was the governor
of New Jersey, you were an athlete, like you're a
high functioning, high achieving You downplay everything you've done in
your whole career, whole momhood.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Let's back up, Kate.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
What's it like to be a boy mom to four,
married to Craig, love him?
Speaker 1 (33:41):
What's it like? What did it look like?
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I mean, I.
Speaker 6 (33:45):
Think all of us are pretty competitive, Like we were
just in Boston because Craig and my oldest ran the marathon,
so they're they're on Monday, they're running all six majors together,
so they've done four.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
So it's not like I'm alone in the competitive.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
I'm not the only psycho.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
No, like we're we're Craig and I are pretty even
in that.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
He likes to say that's not true, but it is.
He's the one.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
He just likes the photo finish, Kate. Don't let him
fool you. He hides in the porta john for the
first twenty two point one. Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
So they you know, the boys, It's so interesting. I'm
sure you find this with your kids, right, They're so different,
even the twins are so different. Like I'm like, how
are you even from the same family. So like we
all have, like we all have things we love to do.
You know, we love to be outside, We love to
be athletic together. So like a lot of hiking, a
(34:35):
lot of skiing, playing hockey everyone except Craig. Craig's the
only one who does not play hockey, uh in our house.
So that part of it has been really fun. I
do think that boys are facing kind of a quiet
crisis right now. I feel like they don't really know
what they should be. And then when you look at
(34:56):
the TV, there's all this like just horribleness of what
should be role models for them and right and so
how do you be.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
A man?
Speaker 5 (35:08):
Like I just had this discussion with my fifteen year
old about like what is masculinity and what does that
look like for him? Like what does he think that is?
And he was like talking about someone being big and power.
I'm like, really, like that's what you think, Like that's
what you see on TikTok and Instagram. It's kind of
a scary time. So like it's funny in work, I
focus so much around girls.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
And then at home I'm so much.
Speaker 5 (35:31):
Embedded in his boy world and they have a tough
time too. I would not want to be a kid
right now. It's really hard hard. Social media is so hard.
People are mean, like it's just and then you turn
on the TV and you look at what we have
to see and people are screaming and they can't like,
like we said earlier on it, you and I can
disagree and we can move on, Like no one's screaming
(35:53):
obscenities at each other.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Well, it's because we're women. We might have score once
or twice, but.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
We already hug it out square always like a nice insanity.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah, we're like you know, it was like it was
like it was like the F word with an apostrophe
of love, like.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yes, respectfully, fuck you.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Yeah, yeah, it was respectfully.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I think I think that's that's so that's so topical though,
because Madison and I not fight about this, but like
we grapple with this concept of like we're two women
raising this man, and it's hard conceptually to think that,
like Whalen is going to understand boyhood from us, and
we don't know that, and we try to understand that,
(36:33):
and also we try to find people and frame his
life with men that we want him to be like,
versus men that we want him to see, right, because
they're just different. They're different people. And you know, that's
that's such an astute point. And we live so much
of our life being certain that Harlan will have access
to more and better, and we don't understand, no matter
(36:53):
how hard we try, what it's going to be like
for Whalen because he has moms so he he lives
in this upset. He understands subculture, he understands women's sports.
He has a hard time grappling with why the Devil's
arena has men all over it? And he'll be pissed.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
He'll be like, who is this dude outside in mamas
hockey goalie boy. He'll be like, this should be Aunt Schroeds.
I'm like it should be I'm like it should be
Aunt schros You should tell her.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
It's like, Mom, why are there boys on TV wearing
your uniforms?
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Yeah, he doesn't like the boys playing colors.
Speaker 7 (37:26):
And it's kind of were the same way because they
grew up having basically have ribodos players live in their
house every yeah five seconds, Like.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Hows players on her mom's farm.
Speaker 5 (37:39):
And in my own house there was a lot of
Tati and I think I had two three Russians live,
Like I forgot about that teach Walker how to take
face offs in.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
The back block.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
That trauma trauma so.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Fun, It's like the Tati story.
Speaker 5 (37:54):
So she in the backyard, she was teaching Walker how
to take face offs, and we had a rabid fox
coming to the backyard and she literally everyone was screaming
and running around, and she just took the hockey stick
and just.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Yeah, because she is from Russia and that is the
least of her concerns.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Shout out to Tati, you know who you are, so
killing foxes aside. And I'm still very much learning because
I have been. I'm only I retired in November and
immediately became a stay at home mom, which I don't recommends.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Looking to get into that department.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Yeah, some time, leave those kids in day here, ride
that out, join to YMCA.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
But I am am slowly learning that.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Like a lot of skills that I acquired and learned
as an athlete make me an exceptional mom. You are
a phenomenal mom, and I think that there are a
lot of things that translate, right. Playing sports helps your development,
helps your confidence, helps all these things, and I think
it's uniquely important in boy moms, and.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
You are a boy mom. So what does that feel like?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
And do you think and do you feel how your
skills as an athlete and as a leader, because you're
you continue to be a leader.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
You've always been a leader, but do you feel that
as a mom.
Speaker 5 (39:11):
I think sports teaches you resilience and you need that
as a parent, It's just it's constant. We are Actually
we have to take our kids to work day today
and I didn't bring my kids from school, but a
lot of my colleagues are here with their little their
kids kind of your your kids ages. That's a tough time.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Don't let anyone tell you that. That isn't easy. It
is hard.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
Like you are tired and you need to get up
and you still have to function and you still have
to do everything. And so I think that mindset of
like even though I maybe don't want to get up
and do all this right now and make lunch, Lunch
is my least favorite thing to make.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Ever.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
I will literally do anything not to make lunch. And
for the last game I've had to make lunch and I.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Have about lunch of oles today canceled for that. I
would do that.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
I would, yeah, totally, Like I just I think that
and that resilience to be able to do that. But
also like when you make a mistake in sports, you
get kind of immediate feedback, right like you either get
the puck or you don't. You score, you don't, and
being able to move on from that is another thing
that I think is a strength as a parent, because
(40:17):
everyone's gonna make mistakes.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
They don't teach you anything.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
They send you home with a child and they're like, oh,
have fun and you have no idea what you're doing,
and you're gonna make mistakes, right, I still do with
my even with my older kids. My twins are twenty now, like,
which is insane, but like you have to be able
to recognize that it was a mistake. You can call
it out you cannot, but like you have to be
(40:42):
able to move on, right, and especially as a working
mom too. Not to say that staying home is any easier.
I actually think it's harder.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
It is harder, by the way, Like.
Speaker 5 (40:53):
I'm guilty at work, I'm guilty at home. And now
it's a little bit better because they're older, but when
they were little, like that counts and feeling of like
I should be doing something more and I mean to
be fair. The social media piece also affects us as adults, right,
Like you look at these moms who are doing all
this shit and you're like, how are you doing that?
Like how are you even functioning?
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Like it's crazy do that.
Speaker 5 (41:16):
I can't even take a shower, Like it's just like
it's hard and I think as an athlete, like you
are used to be doing hard stuff right, like you're
to having to just continue on and then when you
make a mistake, having to move on from it, like
you can't dwell in it.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
My mom said to Madison and I the other day,
like the way that we tap each other in and
out and give each other support is so helpful in
the moment when you're on the ice and you're tired,
but you think I'm going to get that goal and
somebody taps you out.
Speaker 4 (41:47):
You're on the bench and you're stewing.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Like you're mad because you want to be the one,
like and sometimes you're not the one, and you're not
the two, and you're not the three.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
Like sometimes you're the last optional bench. And so it's
a skill we've learn.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
But it's also a skill that I think comes a
lot from that teamwork, that camaraderie that sport. Is that
like I may have the puck on my stick, but
I might not be the right person to shoot it,
so you're gonna come tap me out. I'm okay with
that now, I would say maybe best now than a
couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (42:16):
I would be like, I'm fine. So in that you
know that teamwork.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
That camaraderie also plays a lot, probably in the role
that you take with Craig and how you're able to
receive help. I always say, I don't think I'm good
at asking for help. No, but I'm trying to be
better at receiving help because I don't ask for it,
and that guilt really does kill me. If I'm on
a work trip and I can't be around the kids
and Madison's exhausted and I can't do anything, I.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Feel bad, just objectively really bad.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I think giving it a name is really important, and
then knowing that it's gonna happen to me, it's gonna
happen to her, it's gonna happen to you, it's gonna
happen to your coworker down the hall, it's gonna happen
to all of us. But but I appreciate the way
that you spun it, because it really does take that
that athlete mindset to also kind of be a mom
and be an executive and to be a leader and
to be all these things. We always end our episodes
with this one kind of foundational question, But that is,
(43:08):
what was the best advice you ever received? Or what
was the advice that you wish you'd received that you
never did.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
That's a good question.
Speaker 5 (43:20):
It's probably well, I mean sorry to tell you this,
but the saying goes like little kids, little problems, Big kids,
big problems, And it is really true. So like when
your kids are little and you are, so I like
to always say, like the days are really long, but
the years are short.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Of a suddenly, how's my kid five? How are they?
Speaker 5 (43:44):
Like you can't make it to five o'clock, Like I
remember those days, but it is short, and like when
they're little, there's much more control that you have as
a parent, And like when my my kids are sophomores
in college, like I now just have to hope that
I gave them a good enough foundation to make smart
choices in their life.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
And I have to hope for the best right.
Speaker 5 (44:07):
Because I can't control really almost anything anymore, and so
that like letting go of that control is really hard,
Like that's tough. And they're awesome, by the way, having
twenty year olds is amazing, Like they want to hang out,
they're so cool, they want to talk.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
About it like it's they're great.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
But it's very different than the challenges that you face
when you've got little kids at home equally hard, I think,
just different. Nobody ever really told me that, or I
heard it, and I didn't really believe it. But now
that I'm in it, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's that's true.
That is true.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Like it's actually terrifying because I would take twenty twenty
year old before I would take one more two year old.
I'm bargaining with Anya about popping another one out, so
maybe we'll meet in the middle.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Well, once you go, I'm gonna talk to Craig about it.
I'll touch to Craig about it.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
It's not happening.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
He was like, no, we're good with two.
Speaker 5 (45:00):
I was the one who really wanted the third, and
what was you know?
Speaker 1 (45:03):
They go, Babe, you bargained for three, you end up
with four. All jokes aside, Thank you so much for
joining us. This was awesome. We could talk for We
appreciate you. Thank you, Kate. That's it for this week.
Thanks for listening, and.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
If you like what you heard, spread the word seriously
right now, take your phone out, text a friend and
tell them to subscribe.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
And be sure to rate and review us on Apple
Podcasts and Spotify.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
If you haven't.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Already, it really really helps until next week.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
I'm Madison Packer.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
And I'm Anya Packer, and this was These Packs Puck.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
These Packs Puck is a production of iHeart Women's Sports
and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. It's hosted by us
Madison and Anya Packer. Emily Meronoff is our senior producer
and story editor. We were mixed and mastered by Mary Doo.
Our executive producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz, and Ali
par Three
Hi, everyone, Welcome to these packs puck. I'm Madison Packer.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And I'm Anya Packer. Madison and I are both former
pro hockey players. We met through hockey and fell in love,
and now we're married with two awesome toddlers, ages two
and four.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
These days, we're opening up about the chaos of our
daily lives, between the juggle of being athletes, raising kids.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
And all the messiness in between.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So buckle the puck up because there is a lot
to talk about.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
What's up? Popeye?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Not? You started with a Popeye reference? So rude?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
For context?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Anya has a massive patch on her eye right now.
She had to have a little booboo removed.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, for context, Anya just had surgery on her eye
and I came back to chew.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
It up with you. So you're welcome, all right.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Well, the Packers are home back in southern Connecticut. We
are happy to be here. I've been reunited with my
lego room. Anya has finally had the nine month long
sty removed from her eye, and yep, spring is in
full bloom.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Yes knew, I knew me. What's the hot take today?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Pack hoty hot take?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
The hot take today is I am not a huge
fan of the expansion rules, which probably shocks no one.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Let's hit it, okay, So the league's expansion drafts will
be as followed. The team set up a list of
three players to protect. During the first protection round. Only
players signed through twenty twenty five or six whose rights
remain on the team can be protected. Pending free agents
cannot be protected. The team's pre draft window from June
fourth to eighth, where both expansion teams will be allowed
(01:36):
to sign a maximum of five players each. An unprotected
player or protected player on expiring deal can kind of
sign within that window. And then once each team in
the you know, actual teams that are reserving protecting players,
once they have lost two players, they can select one
additional player to then be protected. So you can protect three,
(01:59):
and then one two are pulled from your roster. You
can then hail Mary protect one more.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I don't necessarily disagree with the format, right. I understand
that you have to have an expansion draft and you
have to somehow put together these teams. The problem for
me is that that just feels way too gladiator esque
in the current world that we live in. Right, You've
got players that are on a tick above minimum wage,
(02:23):
contracts who will not be protected. I won't name the teams,
but if you're among some teams, you're kind of hoping
that those players get taken off your hands if they're
signed to a deal that that is too long. Now
when you look at how you want to reshape your roster,
and now we're going to ship those players halfway across
the country to a market that is more expensive to
live in and the one that they've been living in.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I think a more poignant piece of this is that
like that like Hail Mary fourth reserve, because I think
it's really hard. Like if you look at a roster
like Montreal, right like, let's get let's get into it
a little bit. Montreal, you have Poulen, Stace, Ambrose, and
Debien off the jump that I would assume are some
(03:05):
of the big ones.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
How do you navigate just those four?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Like? Because are you willing to lose Debien? Are you
willing to see if somebody's some GM is gutty enough
to split up Stacey and Pulen? Are you willing to
lose Ambrose?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Like?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I think the fourth save after losing two players is
actually really tough for these gms.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, and I think right, like the Devil's Advocate.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
To my point is that if you're a player on
a three year contract that would now be two year,
and you're not protected and I'm talking about being moved
across different expenses, whatever, you're probably not gonna get picked
in an expansion draft because those expansion players, they're trying
to pick the cream of the crop, you know, and
get who they can. I just I still think that
there needs to be a middle ground to what we're doing.
(03:53):
And like the pushback and the and the comment on
my stance on that as oh, that's not professional, Like,
yeah it is. I mean it's I think it's unprofessional
to send people into environments that they're not prepared to
be in just to prove a point.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I think the other element that's really difficult is when
you start the league off by saying you can sign
three players and then have a draft, like you've already
selected these three players to be your founding players and
now you're only giving them three and then the hail
Mary one. It doesn't leave you any room to either
keep your founders or keep any of your draft picks.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Well, in my opinion, the reason why, right you look
at the turnover from from season one to season two.
I mean there was like fifty to sixty percent of
the veteran playerpool eliminated in one season.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So then you look at now who's coming back, what's
the composition of a team going to be rookies with veterans,
with rookies in market like all these things, there's just
no way to know. And I think that the reality
of the situation is when you look at the rosters,
they're trying to build the best teams possible, right, so
you have to give Seattle and Vancouver the biggest opportunity
(05:06):
to take what they have declared and deem as the best. Currently,
everyone's gonna get their first crack at the new players,
but that veteran pool is already somewhat depleted. Respectfully, you
have a lot of rookies in that pool, so there's
a lot of those players that no one's even gonna
look at. They're all going to be fighting over the
same ones. So I think that maybe that's why the
(05:27):
league said, Okay, you can only protect x amount, because
otherwise everyone's just gonna protect their top guns and there's
gonna be no movement.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
That's entirely unfair to Seattle and Vancouver.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, but I mean think about the NHL Golden Knights
literally went on two really solid playoff pushes afterward. I mean,
I think if you take the second and third line
players from every single roster in any pro league and
then give them the confidence in time and space and energy,
they'll become a one players or have the propensity to
(05:58):
right like some leagues can. Some leagues can't. So but
I just think three is such an arbitrary number on
a hockey team. It's not even in your starting line.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
But I think it boils down to you can't.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
They just couldn't give teams the ability to protect more
than that, because otherwise it wouldn't be fair. Because there's
that big of a gap in the top and in
the bottom. Fifty to sixty percent of the former veteran
pool that, in my opinion, would have been considered in
the upper bottom or the top of the bottom or
the bottom of the top is gone.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
That's a lot of that's a lot of spots you
gotta fill.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I agree, I agree fully. I think it was done.
It was done. The expansion draft rules were made. I
don't agree with them. I think that there's probably a
better way, and I still can't get over you pick
three founding members to be the backbone of your roster
before you even drafted a single player in the creation
of the league, and those players were all on three
year deals.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
If you're just looking at it from an.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Apples to apples like logic, you picked three players to
be the founding members of each franchise, whether Sophie Jakes
gets traded or not, Like, I get it, but but
you've selected three, you've got to at least ride those
contracts out, and if you do, those are the players
that you protect. And I don't agree that those are
the players. I would not protect those players in every
(07:14):
single roster. So it creates.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I would have thought we'd see like five or six
yeah maybe, or like two to two.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
In a goalie or something. Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Like then create stipulations.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
It can't be a player that's logged over twenty minutes
TOI per game, which for most teams that's five players,
the same five players. So let them choose three of
those players and then choose two ten cut tois. I
don't know how you do it, but it just has
to be a different, different, system.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
All right, we're gonna end this hot take with a
fun little game food listeners.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Pick your pack, we'll call it.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Oh yeah, Okay, go for it.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Who do you think is gonna be the biggest winner
out of this scenario aside from Vancouver and Seattle. Which
current team do you think will be the biggest winner
from this expansion draft? I think the biggest winner out
of the whole situation will be Toronto.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I think Toronto.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I think it's a great opportunity for Toronto to get
to fill holes where holes currently exist.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
In a non combative way.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
See here's where I here's where I think the winner
will be. As I think the clearest path to who
the three is, in my opinion, is Ottawa. So I'm
going Ottawa. I'm shipping Ottawa for a period of time.
I'm team Ottawa right now. But I think that the
clearest path of who's obviously identifiably the person that I
would keep. And we can get into that later, but
(08:40):
I think Ottawa's going to take the cake.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
All right, pick your pack, let us know what you think.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Let's hear it, baby, All right, Maddie, Now we're gonna
we're gonna go into my favorite part of the episode,
especially today. Where are you at?
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Where are you at? From one to one hundred. Let's
do a little check.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And I know you're not in Florida, so you can't
say we're in Florida. I'm amazing. How are you getting
back into the home?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I am a crisp thirty two. Oh right now. Yeah,
it's a struggle.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I know you're going to be short of fifty as well,
so we'll have to figure that out later. But we
don't have childcare, which is really really difficult, and the
grass is really tall, and the backyard is a mass and.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
There's a lot to get done here.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
With no extra hands to watch the littles who keep
popping into our recording studio.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Mm well, no, mom mae is in full effect, and
the grass is beautiful and it's healthy and green and lush,
So I'm not taking that into a negative tick on us.
I will say, though, I am really not feeling great.
I had my eyes sliced open today and it is throbbing.
It's only going to get worse because the numbing is
(09:50):
wearing off. My glasses are hitting the patch that I'm
wearing on my eye, so my other eye is giving
me a migraine. So all that to say that doesn't
feel great. I don't love the kids thing. I'm really
busy at work. We did a couple of days off
to travel, which our weekend road trip was amazing. So
I think net net, I'm probably around like a forty five.
(10:10):
So all that to say, I'm still better than you.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
So that puts us out a Oh boy, that's really low.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
We're seventy something. Where are right seesed get degrees?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Not in childcare?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Oh if anyone can handle it, and anyone knows what
to do, it is our next guest, Kate Whitmananas. Kate
is a longtime friend. She runs the New Jersey Devil's
Youth Foundation. She is a former general manager turned investor
in the league.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
She was a coach.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
She's literally worn a thousand hats, but I think most
notably she's a mom of all boys, which we know
is complete chaos.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
It is a very insane.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Dynamic between her and her husband Craig, and she really
jumps into that.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
And I'm excited to talk to Kate.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I am so excited for our chat and our guest today, Kate,
thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
We're pumped.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Thanks for having me, welcome.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
Thanks, it's good to see you too the Conmancial Center.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Long time no see, and it's nice to see you
a minute in our own space.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
So for me, Kate was first my coach, so then
my boss. We'll actual, you know, it's back up for a second.
First trailblazer, then coach, then.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Boss, then investor.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Now back oh.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah investor, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, and then now trailblazer again,
slash colleague, slash.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Woman who elevates women.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Friends here, you also get to be a friend.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah friend, No, come on easy. He's but started as
my coach and has been a leader in women's hockey for.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
A long time.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
We know Kate for all those things, and she also
did all of those amazing things with the Riveters, So
in the prior hockey world we got to duke it out.
Sometimes we were always on the same team, sometimes on
the opposite sides of a similar fight. But at the
end of the day, I also interfaced because I was
on the whale, then I was ahead of the player association.
(12:26):
But in a thousand different ways we work together. So
it's nice to see you in your new role. We're
really excited to talk about all the things that transpired
to that point to get to where you are. And
also a mom of four and honestly, more times than
not now will like message over social media about what
chaos we're getting into with these kids. So thank you
for coming on these packs, Puck.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Yeah, thanks, it's great to be here. And then also,
you know, just to have the relationships that we have,
and like Anya's right, like we were on different sides sometimes,
but like you can do that respectfully, Like you can
disagree and you can be like, Okay, well I don't agree,
but like that doesn't stop you from being a good
colleague and a good friend and someone who still supports
(13:08):
women no matter what right. And I think it's really
important that we do that for each other, and that
we disagreed respectfully and are able to move past it.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
It's super hard.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
It's a strong person to be able to disagree respectfully
versus to get emotional and to get frustrated and to
get defeatist.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
Right, And like when I started as GM of the Ribs,
it was the first GM. My second day I came
here to work at the Devils, I was not working.
I came into my office and we were asked to
leave the Crudential Center and so like it started with
just such chaos and it.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Was a new league.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
We didn't know what we're doing, Like there was a lot.
One of the things that was so hard for me
was I couldn't do some of the things that I
wanted right, Like there was no money right, so trying
to make athletes feel like the profession that they should
and that what we're seeing now in this new league,
which is so cool to watch, Like, like I wanted that,
(14:06):
and it just killed me that I had to say
no all the time.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
It was just well, but I love that we started
this conversation this way because you had a particularly difficult
job because you came in after Chad, who was awesome,
loved him great, He abandoned us like we won, he left,
he was gone on the bigger, better things.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Randy love him.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Not the right guy at the right time for the job,
and you were his assistant coach. So there was a
lot of poor over right, And then it's like, well, no,
Kate would make a great GM. Well then Kate and
Harrit's a lot of just like mock and crap and
a very expensive market in a situation that's not ideal
with the rank all these things you said, and year
after year after year it was that, and then.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
It was COVID like oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And like so too your point in the moment, like yeah,
athletes push back, and like, as an athlete looking back,
you're like, well yeah, da da da da. But I
think the coolest part of it all for full circle honestly,
and why our relationship and like you said, friendship has
continued to remain so strong. It's like in the moment,
you're like, why can't you just see it or like
whatever it looks like right, but you understand it from
(15:20):
my perspective. I understand it from your perspective. So at
the end of the day, when you're like they're a
piece of shit or I disagree or whatever, it is
like you sit on it for a minute and you're like,
oh yeah. And so for me years removed, I applaud
you tremendously. It's incredible to me to see what you're
doing now with the Devil's Youth, Devil's Foundation, Devil's in general.
(15:43):
All you span all things, and I want to dive
into that because the work that you have been propelled
to continue to do is incredible. But I first want
to applaud you because you were starting when startuping wasn't
happening in hockey, and it isn't where it is now
without you Anya too, and you guys work together.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
But that's important. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (16:04):
I mean, it took a lot of people to get
where it is today. I feel super lucky hockey.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I came to it kind of late.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
I was twelve. I had been figure skating. My parents
had always encouraged me to play hockey, and I never
wanted to do it because no girls were doing it.
And I went up to Lake Placid to compete in
a figure skating contest and they made me dress up
like a smurf with the hat and everything went out
for my two minutes on the ice after seven hours,
and that was it. I never put on figure skates
(16:33):
again and just started to play hockey and it's somehow
been a part of my life ever since then. So
in high school, in college, and then even after college
I played. I had my kids, they all started to play,
and that's how I got back into coaching when they
were little, and ended up after riveters and coaching high
school and everything ended up here at the Devils, and
(16:55):
I truly believe I have the best job in the
world because I have the really fun part of sport.
I run the philanthropy.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Piece of it.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
So all of the work that we're doing with our
grant partners out in our communities comes through my team,
and it is so great because we can go out,
we can see immediate impact, right, So we're raising funds
and then we're giving them out. We just approved one
point three million dollars in funding all across New Jersey,
mostly Northern New Jersey, but all across it. We are
focused on promoting youth through arts and arts and access
(17:27):
to equitable arts education, food and nutrition, security, creating safe
spaces and that's mental and physical safe spaces for kids,
and then also promoting getting kids active and moving and
so it's really exciting, fun work. It's different every day,
and I still have the funds out of sports, right
and getting to watch hockey all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
So it's literally the perfect job for you, because I
would say, and one of our kind of like thoughts
here was every stage of your life that we've had
to engage you know, more closely. You had to build trust,
really quickly women's sports. You get the job and you
immediately have to start taking things over and then you
have to build a trust really quickly, and it's not
an easy thing to do. And I think everybody that's
(18:08):
ever played for you around you would say that that's
something that they know that there's trust there. There's a
lot of that mutual respect, that trust. So how do
you think you have access to it?
Speaker 4 (18:18):
How do you unlock that?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
And now you know, how does that follow you through
to the youth foundation?
Speaker 5 (18:26):
Right? So, I really believe in everything that I do,
and I again feel pretty lucky to be able to
say that, because I don't think everybody is able to
do that or able to be a part of something
that they really believe in. And so becoming an investor
just made sense to us because we wanted to support
the league and that's what they needed, like they needed cash,
(18:48):
so we did just because we truly believe in women's
sports and in women's hockey and whatever way I can help,
I'm going to do that. So being here in work,
I actually started coaching again for Eastside High School here,
which has been fantastic. It's a very different experience than
my other high school coaching just because the girls are
(19:09):
a little newer to the game, so there's a lot
of teaching how to skate and things like that. But
it is an awesome experience and they work so hard
just to get to the arena. So it's been how
can I live authentically promoting the things that I believe
in and being a part of moving that forward, and
(19:31):
so coaching has always been a part of that. And
then as the Riveters came along, it just made sense
to really dig in in whatever way the league needed
at the time.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, I mean it's amazing, and I think, you know,
I was fortunate enough to take over the general manager
spot after you so, right, so I benefited from a
lot of that foundation laying and then could go to
the community with some of those things. Right, I had
a new investor group, I had more budget, I had
the ability to hire folks to start touching the community.
So and then at that time, you know, you transition
(20:02):
to the foundation, then we had a different type of
relationship because what you were tasked to do and the
way that you're tasked to move in Newark and the
way that you're tasked to grow in the state of
New Jersey, was all things that we wanted to do too.
With an endless budget, we would have been best friends. Right,
But that's where that caveat of being able to maintain
each shifting role and having those hats change and still
(20:24):
being really authentic is so important. And I think that's
where Madison and I constantly harald you for always being
the same person, right, Like there's no chameleon in the conversation.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
It really is the same, the same person.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
All the time.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Come on back, it's always the same person. And I
think we always me.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
After eleven at Whisper and whiskeys.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
See, that's like it's a hard line right when you're
gm you want to be friends, but maybe.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Not so much.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Not what Madison is what we've learned.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
Yeah, there's some videos though that I wish I hadn't
seen you.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
So I wish that too, Kate, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
So we work together at the Riveters for three years
for somewhere in there, and then you pivot to the devils, right.
Being a woman in men's hockey is hard to one
even get in the door and get and get the job.
But you're doing it and you're doing very well, and
(21:19):
you're in your whole organization, right, Megan Duggan scouting.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
It's a surprise the teams in the playoffs. It's all
because of a woman, in my opinion, M Madigan, our assistant.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah so, but jokes aside, you guys are doing real innovative,
cool things and you have qualified women in roles where
differences are being made. Two questions, One why is the
community aspect so vitally important what you're doing specifically?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And two?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Why is it just important that we continue to have
women in roles that they're qualified to have?
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Because like, why so, there's there's a couple of things.
Our organization does have a lot of women, and they've
done that really purposefully. There is a reason that they
want to have other people's opinions in the room because
it makes it a more vibrant and interesting place to be.
(22:15):
People come up with better and more interesting ideas that
engage our fans and engage our communities. So I count
myself as really lucky that I work here, don't I
don't know. I haven't worked at another club, so I'm
only going to speak from my experience here at the Devils.
I have heard from other places it is not the same, right,
and so I think we're pretty lucky here. That starts
(22:37):
with our ownership group. So we're owned by a company
called Harris Blitzer Sports and Entertainment. They own a bunch
of different sports clubs across all different NHL, NFL, NBA,
all of it. And our owners are Josh Harris and
David Blitzer. They and their wives Marjorie and Alison care
(22:57):
deeply about the community and they talk about it all
the time, and so it trickles down from the top.
So we are if five oh one c three were
separate from our business, but we're embedded in the business.
So I sit here in the office with everybody. We
work really closely with our finance team, our legal team,
our partnership team, our marketing team. So people lean in
(23:18):
and yes, I think they're great and they would do
it no matter what because they're good people. But it's
really helpful when you have an ownership group that is
so invested in it, and they make that so clear.
So at the beginning of every season, Alse and Blitzer,
who is the chair of the Devil's Youth Foundation, and
I go and we meet with the team, the current players,
and we talk to them about what the foundation is
(23:41):
what it could mean, how they could get involved if
they want to, like how we're going to ask them
to get involved. And that happens every year. So there's
a lot of education that goes on, and it's really
helpful to have people at that level, the ownership level,
talking about it and leaning in and being a part
of it, like an active part of it. The lot
I'm you know, I think every club now has a foundation.
(24:03):
So having you know, the owners on our board who
really I mean, Allison cares deeply about this and I
talk to her every week. I mean, she's an active
part of the foundation, and she's an active part of
driving the strategy and what it means to be in
the community and what she wants to see and what
the business wants to see. And so I firmly believe
(24:25):
that you can do good and you can help the
business at the same time, and you can do that impactfully.
You can make a huge difference, and you can create
goodwill in the community, and you can get your brand
out there and maybe you make some lifelong Devils fans
and maybe you just help a kid go to school,
right and so like that to me is awesome on
(24:45):
both sides, right. I don't think it's one or the other.
I think you can do both.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
And you said something that's I think so foundational here
is that it's coming from the top and it's meant
to be good, right, Like how hockey culture. Maddie and
I talk about this all the time on like this
large soap box needs to be better, Like it needs
to be infused with goodness. And I think something that
we always look for is who the allies and the
(25:12):
goodness are. And it's clear that you found them at Devils.
It's clear that you found them, you know, in that
larger ownership group. How much do you champion it across
other teams, Like do you work with other foundations?
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Do you support other foundations to educate them?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
We always say it's one of the things that's really
missing in our culture of hockey.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
My colleagues at the NHL, the other thirty one heads
of the foundations are awesome and we all share so
many ideas. So every year the league has league meetings
somewhere in the country. Last year was the first time
we had a foundation track, so we all got together
and it was great. We're going to do it again
this year and We just share best practices, and you know,
(25:53):
I have stolen like ten ideas from other foundations, particularly
the black Hawks. They're a great one and they've, like
other foundations have come to us to talk about our gala,
how we did it? Could they use these ideas? And
so it's a really collaborative environment, at least in the
foundation piece. So I really love that. Like when I
travel with the team or if I go to an
(26:13):
away game, I always see my counterpart there. We are
always talking and trying to figure out what works best,
Like are there things we can change? Are there ideas
we can use that have worked really well for other people,
So we're not sort of reinventing the wheel and using
best practices.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
It's definitely the rising tie raises all mentality. Maddy and
I have been entrenched more recently with the NHL Foundation,
and you know when we see and do events with them,
like we saw with yours with the sweep the deck,
like it's a different way of looking at it's still
an iceport.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
So you guys, tell us a little bit about the
gala because.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I'm always blown away with what the hockey community can
truly do.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
So the gala is our big fundraiser, or our big
annual fundraiser, and we wanted to do something different than
one of the than the sit down, not the time
with the sit down, awards dinner, those are fine, but
we wanted to do something else that was a little
bit fun. So it is a curling at cards event
on the big ice. So it just like there's a
lot of fun and interesting things that people don't necessarily
(27:12):
get to do. One just being in the center of
the ice, like you never get to do that. That's
really fun. And then curling, which is a lot harder
than it looks. I was like, oh, curling, please, Like
I skated my whole life, and then I went out
and fell immediately, which everybody does. It's great. There's pictures somewhere,
but it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Curling is crazy hard. It's hard.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Yeah, they're heavy and like you have to balance the.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Right way and just validating your story. Sorry.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
And then there's a card piece of it, so a
gambling piece, although it's all for charity, you're not actually
gambling any money. We have about eight hundred and fifty
people and the great, really cool part about it is
that our players come and hopefully they bring, you know,
a significant other, a friend, They get a plus one
and they hang out and they will rote tape between curling,
(28:02):
bartending and playing cards, and so there's just a ton
of interaction with people who are in the building with
the players. They are so lovely, they stick around when
they really don't have to, and that again is a
testament to the organization being all in on the foundation
and all in on the community work.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So we were able to raise.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
Two million dollars this year, which is our largest today
is a lot.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
So you raised two million dollars, that's absolutely incredible in
the first place, and knowing where it's going across the
community is also equally as incredible. But you guys also
have a women's team now in the building. How much
from a foundation standpoint or from a learn to play like,
how much are you seeing the girls game grow or girls.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
In the building? Is it making an effect on it?
Do you see a change there?
Speaker 5 (28:53):
So one of our largest partners is Hockey in New Jersey,
which is nonprofit here in Newark, and so we did
our first multi year grant with them. So we're in
the second year of a three year term and that
was specifically to benefit and build their girls youth programming.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
So we do a lot of work that way.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
What you can see right over my head, the Jersey
Girls is an internal I know it's so cute, is
an internal learn to play program through us. So you
go to learn to skate, then you come to learn
to play and you are part of Jersey Girls Hockey Club.
Because we've found a gap between the learn to play
and then like going right into travel, there was like
a lot, not a lot of house league things for
(29:34):
just girls, and so we wanted to create a program
just for girls and that is run through our Youth
Hockey and Growth Initiatives team and they do a great job.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
So we're trying to.
Speaker 5 (29:41):
Build that program as well as supporting other nonprofits in
the area, particularly around growing their girls. We did a
lot of work actually in the fall with McKenzie studying
girls fitness and sports and when girls drop out, which
is in middle school, which makes a lot of sense, right,
there's a lot of things comput for their time. It
maybe isn't so cool anymore. There's a lot of social
(30:04):
stuff that's going on in middle school for boys and girls,
a lot of pressure and so we really wanted to
focus this year on keeping girls in sports. So our
playoff initiative is called the Playoff Push. We're trying to
raise fifty thousand dollars in the first round through a
combination of our fifty to fifty, an online auction, and
direct donations, and that will go to support youth sports
(30:26):
programming in Newark in the summer and so it will
be a girls ball hockey league in the summer. So
we try to do as much as we can around that,
and then we work really closely with our business side
to see what they're doing and how are we working together,
how are we, you know, driving this initiative forward.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
And as far as.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
The PW and our building like they are awesome, we
work with them really closely. So we run a fifty
to fifty for them for certain games. We try to
amplify everything they do on our socials. That's for DyF
for the foundation, and then our marketing team on the
Devil's side also leans in pretty heavily with them as well.
I would like to see better crowds. It's hard to
(31:07):
look at the crowds that they're getting in Canada and
then wonder why you're not getting them here and now, Mason,
like you said, like we moved around a lot, right,
So I think when you guys won the cop here,
you had started to build a fan base and there
are people coming over and over again. And then we
left and we were three different ranks and it was
kind of a mess. And now they're back here and
(31:28):
it's that build up again. But I don't know, Like
then you look at Canada and they've got eighteen thousand
people in the building, which is amazing, So.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
How do we fix that? Well?
Speaker 3 (31:37):
So I actually love that you just said that, because
it's been the hardest part of the transition for me
is what was and what's become. Right, And I say
it every time, I'll say it again. I love my counterparts.
I have nothing but respect for the staff. I understand
that what we're doing is difficult. However, I think that
(31:57):
what you're doing is the missing piece, and community matters,
especially right now, right especially right now where the world
is hard and stuff's going on, and that you just
don't know, like whether it's hockey in Newark or hockey
in Harlem or whatever, it looks like what kids play hockey, right,
(32:20):
you just want to access the sport. You just want
to be part of a community, and I think that's
the hardest part of everything that's evolving in the women's game.
Like you would think, similarly to what Anya said, a
rising tide lifts all, but it's a very different fan base. Yeah,
you have crossover in hockey, but it's just different. So
(32:42):
if we can all just at bare minimum invest in community,
I think that's so important. You're a boy mom to four,
(33:04):
Everyone just like take a breath and let that settle in.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
It's a lot of boys.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Kate is an athletic mom.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
There's a lot of boys in that house, A four voice.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
All pretty close in age. I'm going to give a
shout out to Walker. I'm his favorite, got his hair
like me, you are, But real talk. What's it like
transitioning from being an ultracompetitive Your mom was the governor
of New Jersey, you were an athlete, like you're a
high functioning, high achieving You downplay everything you've done in
your whole career, whole momhood.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Let's back up, Kate.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
What's it like to be a boy mom to four,
married to Craig, love him?
Speaker 1 (33:41):
What's it like? What did it look like?
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I mean, I.
Speaker 6 (33:45):
Think all of us are pretty competitive, Like we were
just in Boston because Craig and my oldest ran the marathon,
so they're they're on Monday, they're running all six majors together,
so they've done four.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
So it's not like I'm alone in the competitive.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
I'm not the only psycho.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
No, like we're we're Craig and I are pretty even
in that.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
He likes to say that's not true, but it is.
He's the one.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
He just likes the photo finish, Kate. Don't let him
fool you. He hides in the porta john for the
first twenty two point one. Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
So they you know, the boys, It's so interesting. I'm
sure you find this with your kids, right, They're so different,
even the twins are so different. Like I'm like, how
are you even from the same family. So like we
all have, like we all have things we love to do.
You know, we love to be outside, We love to
be athletic together. So like a lot of hiking, a
(34:35):
lot of skiing, playing hockey everyone except Craig. Craig's the
only one who does not play hockey, uh in our house.
So that part of it has been really fun. I
do think that boys are facing kind of a quiet
crisis right now. I feel like they don't really know
what they should be. And then when you look at
(34:56):
the TV, there's all this like just horribleness of what
should be role models for them and right and so
how do you be.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
A man?
Speaker 5 (35:08):
Like I just had this discussion with my fifteen year
old about like what is masculinity and what does that
look like for him? Like what does he think that is?
And he was like talking about someone being big and power.
I'm like, really, like that's what you think, Like that's
what you see on TikTok and Instagram. It's kind of
a scary time. So like it's funny in work, I
focus so much around girls.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
And then at home I'm so much.
Speaker 5 (35:31):
Embedded in his boy world and they have a tough
time too. I would not want to be a kid
right now. It's really hard hard. Social media is so hard.
People are mean, like it's just and then you turn
on the TV and you look at what we have
to see and people are screaming and they can't like,
like we said earlier on it, you and I can
disagree and we can move on, Like no one's screaming
(35:53):
obscenities at each other.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Well, it's because we're women. We might have score once
or twice, but.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
We already hug it out square always like a nice insanity.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah, we're like you know, it was like it was
like it was like the F word with an apostrophe
of love, like.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yes, respectfully, fuck you.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Yeah, yeah, it was respectfully.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I think I think that's that's so that's so topical though,
because Madison and I not fight about this, but like
we grapple with this concept of like we're two women
raising this man, and it's hard conceptually to think that,
like Whalen is going to understand boyhood from us, and
we don't know that, and we try to understand that,
(36:33):
and also we try to find people and frame his
life with men that we want him to be like,
versus men that we want him to see, right, because
they're just different. They're different people. And you know, that's
that's such an astute point. And we live so much
of our life being certain that Harlan will have access
to more and better, and we don't understand, no matter
(36:53):
how hard we try, what it's going to be like
for Whalen because he has moms so he he lives
in this upset. He understands subculture, he understands women's sports.
He has a hard time grappling with why the Devil's
arena has men all over it? And he'll be pissed.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
He'll be like, who is this dude outside in mamas
hockey goalie boy. He'll be like, this should be Aunt Schroeds.
I'm like it should be I'm like it should be
Aunt schros You should tell her.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
It's like, Mom, why are there boys on TV wearing
your uniforms?
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Yeah, he doesn't like the boys playing colors.
Speaker 7 (37:26):
And it's kind of were the same way because they
grew up having basically have ribodos players live in their
house every yeah five seconds, Like.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Hows players on her mom's farm.
Speaker 5 (37:39):
And in my own house there was a lot of
Tati and I think I had two three Russians live,
Like I forgot about that teach Walker how to take
face offs in.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
The back block.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
That trauma trauma so.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Fun, It's like the Tati story.
Speaker 5 (37:54):
So she in the backyard, she was teaching Walker how
to take face offs, and we had a rabid fox
coming to the backyard and she literally everyone was screaming
and running around, and she just took the hockey stick
and just.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Yeah, because she is from Russia and that is the
least of her concerns.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Shout out to Tati, you know who you are, so
killing foxes aside. And I'm still very much learning because
I have been. I'm only I retired in November and
immediately became a stay at home mom, which I don't recommends.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Looking to get into that department.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Yeah, some time, leave those kids in day here, ride
that out, join to YMCA.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
But I am am slowly learning that.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Like a lot of skills that I acquired and learned
as an athlete make me an exceptional mom. You are
a phenomenal mom, and I think that there are a
lot of things that translate, right. Playing sports helps your development,
helps your confidence, helps all these things, and I think
it's uniquely important in boy moms, and.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
You are a boy mom. So what does that feel like?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
And do you think and do you feel how your
skills as an athlete and as a leader, because you're
you continue to be a leader.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
You've always been a leader, but do you feel that
as a mom.
Speaker 5 (39:11):
I think sports teaches you resilience and you need that
as a parent, It's just it's constant. We are Actually
we have to take our kids to work day today
and I didn't bring my kids from school, but a
lot of my colleagues are here with their little their
kids kind of your your kids ages. That's a tough time.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Don't let anyone tell you that. That isn't easy. It
is hard.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
Like you are tired and you need to get up
and you still have to function and you still have
to do everything. And so I think that mindset of
like even though I maybe don't want to get up
and do all this right now and make lunch, Lunch
is my least favorite thing to make.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Ever.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
I will literally do anything not to make lunch. And
for the last game I've had to make lunch and I.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Have about lunch of oles today canceled for that. I
would do that.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
I would, yeah, totally, Like I just I think that
and that resilience to be able to do that. But
also like when you make a mistake in sports, you
get kind of immediate feedback, right like you either get
the puck or you don't. You score, you don't, and
being able to move on from that is another thing
that I think is a strength as a parent, because
(40:17):
everyone's gonna make mistakes.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
They don't teach you anything.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
They send you home with a child and they're like, oh,
have fun and you have no idea what you're doing,
and you're gonna make mistakes, right, I still do with
my even with my older kids. My twins are twenty now, like,
which is insane, but like you have to be able
to recognize that it was a mistake. You can call
it out you cannot, but like you have to be
(40:42):
able to move on, right, and especially as a working
mom too. Not to say that staying home is any easier.
I actually think it's harder.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
It is harder, by the way, Like.
Speaker 5 (40:53):
I'm guilty at work, I'm guilty at home. And now
it's a little bit better because they're older, but when
they were little, like that counts and feeling of like
I should be doing something more and I mean to
be fair. The social media piece also affects us as adults, right,
Like you look at these moms who are doing all
this shit and you're like, how are you doing that?
Like how are you even functioning?
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Like it's crazy do that.
Speaker 5 (41:16):
I can't even take a shower, Like it's just like
it's hard and I think as an athlete, like you
are used to be doing hard stuff right, like you're
to having to just continue on and then when you
make a mistake, having to move on from it, like
you can't dwell in it.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
My mom said to Madison and I the other day,
like the way that we tap each other in and
out and give each other support is so helpful in
the moment when you're on the ice and you're tired,
but you think I'm going to get that goal and
somebody taps you out.
Speaker 4 (41:47):
You're on the bench and you're stewing.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Like you're mad because you want to be the one,
like and sometimes you're not the one, and you're not
the two, and you're not the three.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
Like sometimes you're the last optional bench. And so it's
a skill we've learn.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
But it's also a skill that I think comes a
lot from that teamwork, that camaraderie that sport. Is that
like I may have the puck on my stick, but
I might not be the right person to shoot it,
so you're gonna come tap me out. I'm okay with
that now, I would say maybe best now than a
couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (42:16):
I would be like, I'm fine. So in that you
know that teamwork.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
That camaraderie also plays a lot, probably in the role
that you take with Craig and how you're able to
receive help. I always say, I don't think I'm good
at asking for help. No, but I'm trying to be
better at receiving help because I don't ask for it,
and that guilt really does kill me. If I'm on
a work trip and I can't be around the kids
and Madison's exhausted and I can't do anything, I.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Feel bad, just objectively really bad.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I think giving it a name is really important, and
then knowing that it's gonna happen to me, it's gonna
happen to her, it's gonna happen to you, it's gonna
happen to your coworker down the hall, it's gonna happen
to all of us. But but I appreciate the way
that you spun it, because it really does take that
that athlete mindset to also kind of be a mom
and be an executive and to be a leader and
to be all these things. We always end our episodes
with this one kind of foundational question, But that is,
(43:08):
what was the best advice you ever received? Or what
was the advice that you wish you'd received that you
never did.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
That's a good question.
Speaker 5 (43:20):
It's probably well, I mean sorry to tell you this,
but the saying goes like little kids, little problems, Big kids,
big problems, And it is really true. So like when
your kids are little and you are, so I like
to always say, like the days are really long, but
the years are short.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Of a suddenly, how's my kid five? How are they?
Speaker 5 (43:44):
Like you can't make it to five o'clock, Like I
remember those days, but it is short, and like when
they're little, there's much more control that you have as
a parent, And like when my my kids are sophomores
in college, like I now just have to hope that
I gave them a good enough foundation to make smart
choices in their life.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
And I have to hope for the best right.
Speaker 5 (44:07):
Because I can't control really almost anything anymore, and so
that like letting go of that control is really hard,
Like that's tough. And they're awesome, by the way, having
twenty year olds is amazing, Like they want to hang out,
they're so cool, they want to talk.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
About it like it's they're great.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
But it's very different than the challenges that you face
when you've got little kids at home equally hard, I think,
just different. Nobody ever really told me that, or I
heard it, and I didn't really believe it. But now
that I'm in it, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's that's true.
That is true.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Like it's actually terrifying because I would take twenty twenty
year old before I would take one more two year old.
I'm bargaining with Anya about popping another one out, so
maybe we'll meet in the middle.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Well, once you go, I'm gonna talk to Craig about it.
I'll touch to Craig about it.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
It's not happening.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
He was like, no, we're good with two.
Speaker 5 (45:00):
I was the one who really wanted the third, and
what was you know?
Speaker 1 (45:03):
They go, Babe, you bargained for three, you end up
with four. All jokes aside, Thank you so much for
joining us. This was awesome. We could talk for We
appreciate you. Thank you, Kate. That's it for this week.
Thanks for listening, and.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
If you like what you heard, spread the word seriously
right now, take your phone out, text a friend and
tell them to subscribe.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
And be sure to rate and review us on Apple
Podcasts and Spotify.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
If you haven't.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Already, it really really helps until next week.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
I'm Madison Packer.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
And I'm Anya Packer, and this was These Packs Puck.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
These Packs Puck is a production of iHeart Women's Sports
and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. It's hosted by us
Madison and Anya Packer. Emily Meronoff is our senior producer
and story editor. We were mixed and mastered by Mary Doo.
Our executive producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz, and Ali
par Three
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