November 12, 2024 • 27 mins
It’s the moment we’ve all been waiting for! Hockey players and married couple Madison and Anya Packer glide onto the podcast scene with their very own show. Their goal? To fill a gap in women’s sports content around what it’s like to be a professional athlete and a mom. They’ll do this by talking to other athletes about their unique experiences, but first, the Packers open up about their own lives to show just how chaotic and unpredictable this life can be. How did Anya and Madison survive with Anya solo parenting their two kids last summer, while Madison geared up for the PWHL's second season? And how did their wild parenthood journey start in the first place? Learn about their early relationship and marriage, their challenges of conceiving through IUI, Anya's two pregnancies and postpartum depression, and how they support one another today.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer. I'm a recently retired pro
hockey veet.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I was a.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Founding member of the National Women's Hockey League, a pillar
in the PHF, and an inaugural member of the PWAHL Sirens.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
And I'm Anya Packer, also a former pro hockey player
and now a full Madison Packer.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Stan Banya and I met through hockey and now we're
married and moms.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
So two awesome toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
And this is these packs put where we talk about
everything for professional women's athletes, to sports, to raising children.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
And all the messiness in between.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
So why did we start this podcast?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Well, I think the biggest reason is there's an obvious
gap in women's sports content, but real women's sports content,
which was identified by iHeartMedia, by Deep Blue Sports, and
they kind of started building the slate of athletes and
influencers in the women's sports world to start to share
their perspective and ours is pretty new.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
You're a professional hockey player, you have all of this tenure,
you have all of this success, and now we have
two babies.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
I think the only thing I would maybe add to
that is it's just an opportunity to shed some light
on the other side of professional athletes who are moms
and what they do and what they deal with. And
I think that this is that perfect opportunity. Right, we
have a platform. We're going to talk to a lot
of other moms, whether they're hockey moms or just sports
or athletic moms, and this provides us an avenue to
(01:28):
get those stories out because I think that as we
start to have these conversations and we start to break
things down, we're not all that different. And so having
an outlet and having an opportunity to talk to these
people and give advice and take advice and bring everyone
together and build a community, as we slowly have done
over the last couple months, I think it's going to
be really exciting and really interesting to hear what these
other athletes have to offer and their perspective.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
And we all have a lot to learn from one another.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
But this is a way to support one another and
kind of rally moms together totally.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I mean, if it's happening to us in our small world, right,
if it's happening to two moms with a two year
old girl and a four year old boy and the
stress and the compounding errors of just making momming decisions
in general. If that's happening to us with the lens
of being an athlete, it's happening to every woman.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
It's everybody.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
Yeah, And let's be honest, like this isn't new, Like
women aren't just becoming mothers and balancing having a job
and being professional athletes. It's not new, but it's also
not going away. When our first was born, Whalan, our son,
we weren't anywhere near where we are right now in
the world of women's sports and women's hockey.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
He was born during COVID.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
There were limited resources to begin with for moms in
our league, and it was during a pandemic.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
So we learned and adapted very.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
Quickly and had to figure out how to make it
all work. And that was a huge learning moment because
fast forward two years, our daughter Harlan was born, and
there still was a lot lacking and missing, but we
had a better understanding of what our needs looked like,
and so there's a greater expectation. This is going to
be overwhelming to begin with, but we can adjust, we
can adapt. The league was understanding of what the needs
(03:00):
looked like kind of going into that, and I felt
like we were a lot more supported the second time around.
The Other part of it is, we haven't had these
platforms to have these conversations because the medium hasn't been
available to us. And now we have access to that,
and we have the opportunity for moms to share their
stories and professional athletes who are also moms to come
on and talk about how they balance it and how
it works and how it doesn't. And I think that's
(03:21):
the bigger part is that as we have these conversations
and people are going to be genuinely mind blown with
what these women balance and how they take care of
their kids and take care of their bodies and maintain
their routines, etc. All while operating on a professional women's salary. Right,
let's keep that in mind, and it's cost of childcare
and all these things, and you're going to just slowly
start to see they really do have to just do
(03:42):
so much more to do the exact same job.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
And that's not new.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
It's just the first time that we're being given access
to these platforms to shed.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Light on that.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
And hopefully the more that exposure is out there and
the more we talk about it. That's how things change, right,
Nothing changes if you don't have conversation about it. And
so we've learned from our partner leagues, the WNBA, NWSL,
they're a little further ahead, and just every league in
general still can go so much further for moms, and
so the hope is that this is kind of a
(04:14):
stepping stone to get some of that out there and
get some recognition on the fact that women are going
to continue to be moms and women are going to
continue to play pro sports, and these are their struggles
and stories.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
How can we bridge that gap a little bit?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
And they made the mistake of giving the microphones to us,
because it's going to get messy and it's going to
be real, because there's no other reason to start talking
about it if we're not going to really jump in.
So obviously part of this is that you're a pro
hockey player, babe, Like, we can't ignore that part. So
(04:47):
run it back on last year and then maybe talk
about like training, summer, what's going on, what's new and exciting.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
Yeah, I mean, I think that this offseason was uniquely difficult, right,
Like you were up at the cabin with my parents.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
You deserve a medal for that.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
I spent the whole summer in Connecticut at Prentice Human
Performance with my trainer Ben So at the end of
last season, the feedback was that I needed to get quicker,
and I was here training every day with a different
diet and a different routine, and it was really uncomfortable,
mostly uncomfortable because you guys were gone, and I think
most moms can relate. It was nice to have some
quiet for about ten days and then it was really
(05:24):
lonely and it was really hard. So that part was tough,
but like the diet and the training and the regiment
is all worth it because the feedback to me at
the end of last season was I needed to get quicker,
and we went in the gym and the guys thought
it was possible. So you know, that's kind of in
the game plan. It's just I'm looten free, dairy free.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Now.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Ben's trying to get me to think about it as
a lifestyle change and not a diet, which is tough
on a daily basis, but that's kind of what we've
been doing, and you've obviously been super supportive.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
We're doing that together. That's been fun.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, unless I want a donut, then I'm not GFDF.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Yeah, you're not as good about sticking to the regiment,
but I'll give you credit because you've been I mean,
that's I wouldn't ever be able to do it without you.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Like That's the other part of this is that.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
The male athletes have so many more resources for these
kinds of things and like personal chefs and people that
cater specifically to their needs, et cetera. Like you are
my personal chef and you meal prep and all these
things for me, and hopefully in the long run it
all pays off, right, Like that's why we did this.
But I think we learned kind of you know, also
heading into the new season and the games are in
(06:26):
New Jersey now, so what's that going to look like?
Moving the kids, moving you and et cetera. And I
think we learned and agreed that it's just impossible to
do the distance thing, Like I don't know how people
do that, kudos to them, but we just we can't
do it. So we've got to figure out, you know,
heading in it's getting pretty close now, like figuring out
what we're going to do and committing to trying to
find a way to stick together because that was the
(06:48):
most difficult part of the summer. Like the training was tough,
and going to the gym and whatever. It hurts and
it's hard, but that passes. The long time without the
kids and without you was like really really hard.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, I mean I can't imagine it, honestly.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I mean, I'm also sitting in the perspective of it
was really hard to be the solo primary caregiver for
an entire summer. But it is challenging, Like I was
there in no structure, it was lucy goosey. The kids
were a little out of whack, like they were doing
their own thing. And then coupling all of that with
feeling like I'm staying present with you, with us, and
also coming home like I had that trip where I
(07:21):
came home and I worked out with you every day,
which is fun. I love it, and you know, seeing
your gains and seeing you have all these improvements is incredible,
Like it makes it feel justified and worth it. And
then there are certainly times where I'm putting the kids
to bed there like pulling their hair out, I'm crying
and I'm cursing your existence, Like these are all real things,
Like I definitely loved you and hated you at the
same time when I missed you.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Yeah, I think it just gives perspective on how hard
it is to do the job right. When you guys
came home, I was all excited to do all of
these things with the kids because I've been here at
the gym every day and You're like, oh my goodness,
absolutely not, like I want to break I'm not doing that.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
This doesn't sound fun.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
And it taught me something in that moment of like, well, wow,
I guess I didn't see it from that side, like
I'm just so excited to see you guys, and I
know you're excited to see me too, But mama's tired,
like you've just been with them all summer long, and
Whalan's four now, so his energy is quadrupled and it's
a lot. So I think that we learned that we
(08:19):
can't do it again, obviously, but it's all just a
part of that bigger theme of sacrifice and how the
village behind the athlete is really what gets it done.
Because if that wasn't an option for us, if we
couldn't make that work, I might not be sitting in
the seat still calling myself a pro athlete, so so.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
True, and it's like now also more offensively, I always
was the quicker person in this dynamic. I could always
run faster. I always felt like I could like zip
and zag faster than you. And now I go to
the gym with you and we're on the ten eighty
doing splits and I'm dramatically slower. So whilst yes, it
all has paid off and things are going in the
right direction for you, personally, I no longer feel like
(08:55):
the athlete between us, and I think that that's absolute trash.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Oh that sounds like a personal problem.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, that is that one's personal very We'll be right
back after a short break, So babe, maybe for the
(09:22):
first episode you can tell the great people how we
met and why we're here.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
I think you should start.
Speaker 6 (09:30):
So.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I used to be a player in the Professional Women's
Hockey League, which was the nationalman hockey at the time.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I played on a Whale.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I was the head of our players association, so a
lot of what I had to deal with as a
player was other player problems, which really was like a
duplicitous mind that I had to have.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
But Madison was hurt, so then I got like.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
An onslaught of calls from her about what a problem
our league and players Association was, and so I think
at that.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Point I should do I should have decided that I
did like you then, but I didn't.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I thought, Yeah, she's so smart, she really is pushing back,
blah blah blah, she's going to make us all better.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Then Madison retired and had to sue the league.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
It's just kind of how like insurance works, and that
process was and then decided that she didn't want to retire,
so I had to undo a lot of what she
thought was damage, which was probably again still business as
usual because it wasn't as big of a hurdle. But
she called me to say, Hi, I retired, I want
to unretire. Can I have support from the Players Association
(10:31):
to drive that forward? And I said sure whatever. We
were talking and then at the end of it, you know,
she had said I got out of a relationship and
I had retired to move closer to that person, and
now I'm not with that person anymore, which why I
thought the perfect next step was like, great, do you
want to get a beer?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Like do you want to go out? Do you want
to date?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
And she was like no, I have no interest in that,
And immediately that tells me that needs to be somebody
that I'm dating, Like.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I can't, like, I don't want to not go in
a day. Now I'm annoyed.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
So time and time again, I was actually in Vegas
for work and I get to stay at the top
the travel story and this made me sound so shay, yeah,
it does a little bit, but I get to stay
at these really nice rooms. Kind of makes me sound
like a jerk too, because I take a video of
my room, I take a video of the strip. I
show her all this like bougie life that I'm living
on someone else's corporate dime.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So why I thought that made me look cool, and
Maddie kind of was like, hmm, what do you do?
What is your life? What's going on?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
And so then she inevitably told me no again, and
I asked her out again and she said no again,
and finally she gave me a bone by saying, I'm
going to be in Massachusetts for a hockey tournament, staying
two exits away from my parents' house, and I'm like,
oh my gosh, I will also be coaching in the
same tournament. When is your game and she's like, mine's
(11:50):
at nine. I'm like mine's at nine and ten. She's like,
I don't think anyone's playing after us, but like, okay,
it's like yah, I'm in a different rank. It's no biggie,
But like, do you want to meet for a drink?
She's like sure, Well I said that because it was
like five and I had to drive up from Connecticut
because I'm not coaching in this tournament. I'm not involved
in any way, shape or form. But I thought if
the date was bad, I'll just go to my parents' house.
So I drove from Connecticut to go on this date.
(12:12):
Because if you say no six times, like I know,
the answer should be yes. I know we should be dating.
It wasn't really a date, but okay.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
We've got a beer in a hotel lobby. So it's
like the best I could have gotten.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
And then you fell in love with me because I
knew that you wanted to date me.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You were just wrong. And how that's the most accurate
retelling of that story.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
Well, I didn't find out that you weren't coaching until
we were.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Married, because that's a little bit of a thirsty part
of the story.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
So that doesn't need to go in.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
But for the most part that's accurate.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I think that's one hundred percent what happened.
Speaker 6 (12:51):
You were very persistent that just was living my life.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
You didn't know that we were going to be perfect.
Speaker 7 (12:57):
Yeah, we ended up like all of a sudden, one
beer turned in like a billion not beers.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
No, one beer turned into like a billion hours of conversation.
We only had.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
I had a love of beers.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I was driving, no I know, but I but we
were sitting there.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Actually got me a bud light and I was like, yeah,
I'll take a bud light. I don't think I've had
a bud light since I was like twenty one.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Yeah, I don't think but light anymore either.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
I don't even know why I said yes. I should
have just asked for a glass of wine.
Speaker 6 (13:24):
Yeah, And then we elvis at the bar was closing.
Speaker 7 (13:26):
Then we moved to the lobby and talked in the
lobby and then I like looked at my phone.
Speaker 6 (13:32):
I was like, oh my god, it was like five am.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, it was a long time.
Speaker 7 (13:36):
At seven and we looked outside and the sun was
coming up, was the most beautiful sunrise. So I walked
you out to your car and then you left and
then we went to that French place where I'm like,
you asked me out to dinner. So I drove up
to Connecticut where we Haven, Yeah, New Haven.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yes, and I couldn't. I didn't looked at the.
Speaker 7 (13:54):
Menu and the only thing I was like, quail sounds
kind of like at might chase like chicken.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
And then the guy in the back up to us
and we both played hockey professionally at the time.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, and the guy that was the that was the
bus boy.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Bus boy goes, I know her, she plays hockey, and
I kind of like perked up because I played hockey
in the air and they were like you when they
pointed to you, and I was like, I also play hockey.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
But then that's when we went to dinner and I
like didn't.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Eat, and then we went out for burgers and so
and we went to karaoke and then went to karaoke
and then I picked you a normal song to sing
and then you pick me Girl on Fire by Alicia Keys.
I'm not a good singer, so I thought, this is
the end of our relationship because this is gonna be embarrassing. Yeah,
And then the guy took the mic out in my
hand and started singing for me.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
He like told me I was bad. That was brit.
I was like, I'm on a date. He was like,
I don't care, you're awful.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
That place was fun though.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
It was like a legit karaoke bar. Yeah. Yeah, like
the little rooms. Yeah, that was wicked fun.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
And then and then I asked you to come to
San Diego because I had to go anyway. And then
we went from San Diego, we drove went to Lego Land,
which is actually for children, it's not for adults. And
so then we had like a date a Lego Lan
because you're a child, but like it was only children
and us, and we went on a kiddie ride, Like
we went on a ride that was for actually for children.
It was like comically, oh yeah for children that thought, yeah,
(15:11):
they thought the kids in front of us were our children. Yeah,
And the poor kids were like, please get those women
away from me.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I think there was Then we went to the San
Diego Zoo. Then we went to Huntington Beach.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Then we went to la and then we flew home
because I had meetings the whole off the coast. And
then you brought Zoe, so we had a dog in
La driving up the coast, went to Legoland, San Diego Zoo.
Then you got the best Brussels Brouts in the world.
Then we went to the bird cage and I was like,
this woman hit on me and I was like, hm me,
(15:42):
they're my options. I was like, us, think what the
one I flew with for now?
Speaker 6 (15:48):
We got engaged, and we knew we wanted to have
kids right away.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
You were trying to convince me to have a baby
before we got married, to have the baby at the wedding.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
You're a crazy person. I don't know.
Speaker 7 (15:57):
Yeah, we got engaged the year we won, and then
you retired and we were planning the wedding and you
were running the PA.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I got to a point where I'm like looking at
my life and in season three.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I ran the PA.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
I was a player at the time and also not
feeling like I was doing the most to contribute on
the ice, and I definitely felt like I was doing
so much more for the PA. So I got to
that point where I'm like, hmm, my time benefit to
the game is in the boardroom, not on the ice anymore.
Like I always said, like I picked the boardroom over
the locker room. So when I made that transition, which
(16:35):
if anyone looked at like our on ice pedigree, it
always made sense that I was going to be that person.
But when we first started dating, I was like, I
don't want to use my eggs. I don't want them
to be like me because a lot of my upbringing
and everything, like I struggle with anxiety and depression and
had these really tough times in my like high school,
(17:00):
will age into college, and so I got really nervous
about that. And so we were basically talking about doing
IVF your egg and then I carried, and then we
got through that whole process.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
And kind of came to the conclusion of, well, we.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Can't handle anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Made anymore be really stressful. No, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
I think we just thought nurture nature. If we're well prepared,
we can handle anything. And so we went with my
eggs my body, and then we went through IUI, which
is interuterine inception. So basically they tested to see if
I functioned like a you know, quote quote fertile woman
would and fertile because you go to a fertility clinic,
(17:44):
it's so many people that aren't dealing with that and
so you really have to figure out like fertility clinics
that understand the lgbt QIA family.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Because it's really hard.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Like I would be surrounded by women that were infertile,
and so their struggles are not my struggles, and their
narrative is not my name narrative, and it's sad and
I'm and I in my heart breaks in that scenario
when I'm in these like you know, community groups that
we started going through because we're like we're going to
do everything.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
We're going to do the meditation, We're going to do this,
We're gonna and I We're all in. We were all in.
I was up there. They were like fiftyet older. I
was like, I'm there, We'll take there. You're twenty six,
get out.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
But it was like it was one of those things
where you just don't know what to expect, and so
you surround yourself with people that are going through a
similar thing.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
So that's how we kind of started.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
And when I stepped away from hockey and got into
you know, trying to prep to be that like pregnant person,
it was like I would change my eating and my
training and then read.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
All these books and like go through this whole like
you know thing.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
So we did that for about a year prior finding
our sperm donor was really hard. I feel like I
thought it would be easier, but then we kind of
got into this weird like apex.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
We're like, are we playing God? Are we What are
we doing here?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
So we're having the world's most powerful vending machine.
Speaker 8 (18:58):
Yes, yes, like the filters and you could be like
brown hair, blue eyes, six foot four, Like that feels
like weird Harvard acceptance, Yeah, because you.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Don't want to, like could you imagine if you went
to the bar as like a heteronormative situation and be like,
give me your birthing.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It's crazy, it's crazy.
Speaker 6 (19:17):
And all the genetic testing so you can't like genetically
they're perfect.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, yeah, they won't let you.
Speaker 9 (19:23):
Well, their job is to create a perfect right, like
or a healthy baby, right. Yeah, but you're there because
you most people, more people in that situation, right, are
struggling with fertility. And then you're the same sex couple
who walks in like with perfect reproductive abilities, but you
have to go through all the same tests and process.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Yeah, and then well then they and then the other
issue is like you don't seem that like a problem
per se, because you don't have a problem per se,
you just aren't, like biologically, it's not.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
The mechanics, so you feel like it's going to be easy.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
And then our first run through before our son, I
had gotten pregnant, and we went home and we were like.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
All jazzed up and with my family for Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So Maddie runs out to the door to call the doctor.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
They were like, tell me, just take a pregnancy test
at home, because like we knew she was pregnant, which
most people don't know in the progress makes and so
we knew you were pregnant, and then we called the doctor.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Whatever.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
So Maddie runs out for the test and then tampon's
which is like the saddest thing then both of those
things in your hands at the same time. And also
Mattie just parents just reached their house with this gorgeous
white floor, like this white tile floor with white friggin'
like grout like blood all over it.
Speaker 6 (20:50):
All.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Right, that was awful, But anyway, I ended up having
a miscarriage. And we go downstairs and we're like reeling
because it's all happening in real time, and we open
up this little box with my brother.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
And his wife were waiting for us with this little
box in the kitchen.
Speaker 10 (21:05):
Because they're pregnant, and I'm like and it was like
so like I like was so you open it up right,
and we're like so happy, so happy for my brother
because it's it's him and his wife's first baby.
Speaker 6 (21:21):
But then like but like so sad, so sad because.
Speaker 7 (21:25):
I immediately look at on you and I'm like, oh
my god, like, how do I what do I do?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
That was?
Speaker 4 (21:31):
That was awful.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
That was awful, and it was just like a perfect
like because seriously at the moment, we were both like,
this is the happiest thing and it's and we're so
this is the best thing in the world because it
was the first baby in the family.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Too. Well, then we waited because you were like I
needed a month.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Yeah, you were like trying to like work harder. That
was what can I do?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
That was awful?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Yeah, we changed all my medicine around and they did
like they did more hormones and did more shots. We changed,
like we changed the plan and so I needed a month.
I also needed a month to just like get over that.
And then you got pregnant and then I got pregnant
right before Christmas and then and now that's just my
lucky month.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
So I will literally never walk into a doctor's office
in December.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Because then Harlan, our second one, the same kind of
thing happened.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
We had two miscarriages with Harlan.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
It took four attempts and we only bought eight from
our donor.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
So it was our last donor attempt.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
So when our last attempt, it was like literally a
hill Mary after a miscarriage.
Speaker 7 (22:29):
I'm like, just do it, and Whalen cry the whole
After you got pregnant. With Whalen, I went to one
doctor appointment and then.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
COVID hit, Okay, that sad for you. I totally hear
and understand your perspective.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But spending the entire pregnancy going to all those appointments
alone and then at the very end of the line
they let you back in.
Speaker 6 (22:51):
In my defense, the first doctor of Wointman I went to.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Where I ever saw him.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It was like.
Speaker 7 (23:00):
Thirty mile away lighthouse flickering in the distance, like it
was just like a tiny little like thing on the screen. Yeah,
and then I never I have to live vicariously through
ultrasounds I'm not in details and occasional face times when
when the nice nurse.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Was in the room, I'm not a detailed person, so
I definitely.
Speaker 6 (23:15):
And then I come back and they've got the baby
on this like eighty.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Foot wall and the doc's like, oh, he's going to
be big.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You literally, I'm just saying.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
It wasn't like you literally said to me Ill No,
you go, it's going to be a big baby.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Oh my god, Oh, I said, writing history right now.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
You literally went, ew, he's going to be a big baby.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
He said, Oh, how big? I said, Oh, he's going
to be big?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
How big? Are we talking?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
You said, iw And I don't think. And then and
then at when we when he comes to the world,
it's COVID, so we're everyone's wearing masks. We have like
one nurse, one doctor. It is a lean team in
this room. Maddie's like holding a leg. This is true,
(24:04):
and she's like the nurse in the background's like, get.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Her a juice.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I'm like, if you give her a juice right now,
I will throw something across the room.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
It must passed out.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Then Whylan comes and he aspirated his own feces.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
So we had like all the doctors in there. Yeah,
like and it's like this whole big procedural thing, like
everything's happening. They bundle him up, they put him on
my chest. I am a zombie. I'm half asleep. Maddie's like,
let's take a picture. This is amazing. I'm like, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
I don't know about the picture right now, but I'm
like whatever, fine, So take the picture and Addison immediately
fires it off to like everyone in the world, my boss,
I send it the boss, the friends, the family, everybody.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I fall asleep. I sleep for like twenty five hours.
I wake up. I look at the photo in like
five group chats that I'm.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
In my nipples showing I'm like, Nattie, you couldn't have
checked my nipple before you send this picture to the war.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I was so excited.
Speaker 7 (25:05):
I was so excited that I have never wished more
that that edit button existed.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Well, thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I mean, I know that this is one major topic
and we'll only be diving into more. Will be certainly rehashing,
and then we'll talk about everything from hockey kids, I UI,
the fact that you almost passed out with two of
our children, the you know, juggling all the things, having
the kids run into the shower in the locker room,
all the chaos, because that's just what happens in the
(25:35):
Packer house.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
It's always chaotic, but it's always fun. We always find
a way.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
We always find a way.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
So we're gonna wrap here and next episode we have
one of my favorite people in the entire world.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Babe.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I know you share this opinion. It is more than
an athlete, more than a mom. She is Megan Duggan,
and that should mean enough. But if you're not a
hockey person.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Who is she?
Speaker 5 (25:59):
She is a three time Olympian, she's a gold medalist,
she's a world champion, she's a Patty Kasmier winner, she's
a mom of three.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Now, she is.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
A player development guru with the New Jersey Devil. She's
just all incredible things in the world of hockey. And
she had kids around the same time, a little bit
before us. And she's someone that I've learned from as
a player through my journey. She's an incredible person and
I'm so excited to have a conversation with her and
share that with the world because we can all learn
a lot from her leadership. And her kindness.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Let's always talk to Meghan Duggan. Let's just have this
pod be talking to Meghan Duggan. We'd have the most fun.
And that's all we have today. Thank you for listening.
I'm Onya Packer and.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
I'm Madison Packer and this is These Packs Puck.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
These Packspuck is a production of Iheartwomen's Sports and Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. It's hosted by us Madison and
Anna Packer. Emily Maronov is our senior producer and story editor.
We're mixed in Bustard by Beheath Fraser, and our executive
producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz, and Ali Perry.
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer. I'm a recently retired pro
hockey veet.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I was a.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Founding member of the National Women's Hockey League, a pillar
in the PHF, and an inaugural member of the PWAHL Sirens.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
And I'm Anya Packer, also a former pro hockey player
and now a full Madison Packer.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Stan Banya and I met through hockey and now we're
married and moms.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
So two awesome toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
And this is these packs put where we talk about
everything for professional women's athletes, to sports, to raising children.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
And all the messiness in between.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
So why did we start this podcast?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Well, I think the biggest reason is there's an obvious
gap in women's sports content, but real women's sports content,
which was identified by iHeartMedia, by Deep Blue Sports, and
they kind of started building the slate of athletes and
influencers in the women's sports world to start to share
their perspective and ours is pretty new.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
You're a professional hockey player, you have all of this tenure,
you have all of this success, and now we have
two babies.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
I think the only thing I would maybe add to
that is it's just an opportunity to shed some light
on the other side of professional athletes who are moms
and what they do and what they deal with. And
I think that this is that perfect opportunity. Right, we
have a platform. We're going to talk to a lot
of other moms, whether they're hockey moms or just sports
or athletic moms, and this provides us an avenue to
(01:28):
get those stories out because I think that as we
start to have these conversations and we start to break
things down, we're not all that different. And so having
an outlet and having an opportunity to talk to these
people and give advice and take advice and bring everyone
together and build a community, as we slowly have done
over the last couple months, I think it's going to
be really exciting and really interesting to hear what these
other athletes have to offer and their perspective.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
And we all have a lot to learn from one another.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
But this is a way to support one another and
kind of rally moms together totally.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I mean, if it's happening to us in our small world, right,
if it's happening to two moms with a two year
old girl and a four year old boy and the
stress and the compounding errors of just making momming decisions
in general. If that's happening to us with the lens
of being an athlete, it's happening to every woman.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
It's everybody.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
Yeah, And let's be honest, like this isn't new, Like
women aren't just becoming mothers and balancing having a job
and being professional athletes. It's not new, but it's also
not going away. When our first was born, Whalan, our son,
we weren't anywhere near where we are right now in
the world of women's sports and women's hockey.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
He was born during COVID.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
There were limited resources to begin with for moms in
our league, and it was during a pandemic.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
So we learned and adapted very.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
Quickly and had to figure out how to make it
all work. And that was a huge learning moment because
fast forward two years, our daughter Harlan was born, and
there still was a lot lacking and missing, but we
had a better understanding of what our needs looked like,
and so there's a greater expectation. This is going to
be overwhelming to begin with, but we can adjust, we
can adapt. The league was understanding of what the needs
(03:00):
looked like kind of going into that, and I felt
like we were a lot more supported the second time around.
The Other part of it is, we haven't had these
platforms to have these conversations because the medium hasn't been
available to us. And now we have access to that,
and we have the opportunity for moms to share their
stories and professional athletes who are also moms to come
on and talk about how they balance it and how
it works and how it doesn't. And I think that's
(03:21):
the bigger part is that as we have these conversations
and people are going to be genuinely mind blown with
what these women balance and how they take care of
their kids and take care of their bodies and maintain
their routines, etc. All while operating on a professional women's salary. Right,
let's keep that in mind, and it's cost of childcare
and all these things, and you're going to just slowly
start to see they really do have to just do
(03:42):
so much more to do the exact same job.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
And that's not new.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
It's just the first time that we're being given access
to these platforms to shed.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Light on that.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
And hopefully the more that exposure is out there and
the more we talk about it. That's how things change, right,
Nothing changes if you don't have conversation about it. And
so we've learned from our partner leagues, the WNBA, NWSL,
they're a little further ahead, and just every league in
general still can go so much further for moms, and
so the hope is that this is kind of a
(04:14):
stepping stone to get some of that out there and
get some recognition on the fact that women are going
to continue to be moms and women are going to
continue to play pro sports, and these are their struggles
and stories.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
How can we bridge that gap a little bit?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
And they made the mistake of giving the microphones to us,
because it's going to get messy and it's going to
be real, because there's no other reason to start talking
about it if we're not going to really jump in.
So obviously part of this is that you're a pro
hockey player, babe, Like, we can't ignore that part. So
(04:47):
run it back on last year and then maybe talk
about like training, summer, what's going on, what's new and exciting.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
Yeah, I mean, I think that this offseason was uniquely difficult, right,
Like you were up at the cabin with my parents.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
You deserve a medal for that.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
I spent the whole summer in Connecticut at Prentice Human
Performance with my trainer Ben So at the end of
last season, the feedback was that I needed to get quicker,
and I was here training every day with a different
diet and a different routine, and it was really uncomfortable,
mostly uncomfortable because you guys were gone, and I think
most moms can relate. It was nice to have some
quiet for about ten days and then it was really
(05:24):
lonely and it was really hard. So that part was tough,
but like the diet and the training and the regiment
is all worth it because the feedback to me at
the end of last season was I needed to get quicker,
and we went in the gym and the guys thought
it was possible. So you know, that's kind of in
the game plan. It's just I'm looten free, dairy free.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Now.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Ben's trying to get me to think about it as
a lifestyle change and not a diet, which is tough
on a daily basis, but that's kind of what we've
been doing, and you've obviously been super supportive.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
We're doing that together. That's been fun.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, unless I want a donut, then I'm not GFDF.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Yeah, you're not as good about sticking to the regiment,
but I'll give you credit because you've been I mean,
that's I wouldn't ever be able to do it without you.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Like That's the other part of this is that.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
The male athletes have so many more resources for these
kinds of things and like personal chefs and people that
cater specifically to their needs, et cetera. Like you are
my personal chef and you meal prep and all these
things for me, and hopefully in the long run it
all pays off, right, Like that's why we did this.
But I think we learned kind of you know, also
heading into the new season and the games are in
(06:26):
New Jersey now, so what's that going to look like?
Moving the kids, moving you and et cetera. And I
think we learned and agreed that it's just impossible to
do the distance thing, Like I don't know how people
do that, kudos to them, but we just we can't
do it. So we've got to figure out, you know,
heading in it's getting pretty close now, like figuring out
what we're going to do and committing to trying to
find a way to stick together because that was the
(06:48):
most difficult part of the summer. Like the training was tough,
and going to the gym and whatever. It hurts and
it's hard, but that passes. The long time without the
kids and without you was like really really hard.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, I mean I can't imagine it, honestly.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I mean, I'm also sitting in the perspective of it
was really hard to be the solo primary caregiver for
an entire summer. But it is challenging, Like I was
there in no structure, it was lucy goosey. The kids
were a little out of whack, like they were doing
their own thing. And then coupling all of that with
feeling like I'm staying present with you, with us, and
also coming home like I had that trip where I
(07:21):
came home and I worked out with you every day,
which is fun. I love it, and you know, seeing
your gains and seeing you have all these improvements is incredible,
Like it makes it feel justified and worth it. And
then there are certainly times where I'm putting the kids
to bed there like pulling their hair out, I'm crying
and I'm cursing your existence, Like these are all real things,
Like I definitely loved you and hated you at the
same time when I missed you.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Yeah, I think it just gives perspective on how hard
it is to do the job right. When you guys
came home, I was all excited to do all of
these things with the kids because I've been here at
the gym every day and You're like, oh my goodness,
absolutely not, like I want to break I'm not doing that.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
This doesn't sound fun.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
And it taught me something in that moment of like, well, wow,
I guess I didn't see it from that side, like
I'm just so excited to see you guys, and I
know you're excited to see me too, But mama's tired,
like you've just been with them all summer long, and
Whalan's four now, so his energy is quadrupled and it's
a lot. So I think that we learned that we
(08:19):
can't do it again, obviously, but it's all just a
part of that bigger theme of sacrifice and how the
village behind the athlete is really what gets it done.
Because if that wasn't an option for us, if we
couldn't make that work, I might not be sitting in
the seat still calling myself a pro athlete, so so.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
True, and it's like now also more offensively, I always
was the quicker person in this dynamic. I could always
run faster. I always felt like I could like zip
and zag faster than you. And now I go to
the gym with you and we're on the ten eighty
doing splits and I'm dramatically slower. So whilst yes, it
all has paid off and things are going in the
right direction for you, personally, I no longer feel like
(08:55):
the athlete between us, and I think that that's absolute trash.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Oh that sounds like a personal problem.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, that is that one's personal very We'll be right
back after a short break, So babe, maybe for the
(09:22):
first episode you can tell the great people how we
met and why we're here.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
I think you should start.
Speaker 6 (09:30):
So.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I used to be a player in the Professional Women's
Hockey League, which was the nationalman hockey at the time.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I played on a Whale.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I was the head of our players association, so a
lot of what I had to deal with as a
player was other player problems, which really was like a
duplicitous mind that I had to have.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
But Madison was hurt, so then I got like.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
An onslaught of calls from her about what a problem
our league and players Association was, and so I think
at that.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Point I should do I should have decided that I
did like you then, but I didn't.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I thought, Yeah, she's so smart, she really is pushing back,
blah blah blah, she's going to make us all better.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Then Madison retired and had to sue the league.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
It's just kind of how like insurance works, and that
process was and then decided that she didn't want to retire,
so I had to undo a lot of what she
thought was damage, which was probably again still business as
usual because it wasn't as big of a hurdle. But
she called me to say, Hi, I retired, I want
to unretire. Can I have support from the Players Association
(10:31):
to drive that forward? And I said sure whatever. We
were talking and then at the end of it, you know,
she had said I got out of a relationship and
I had retired to move closer to that person, and
now I'm not with that person anymore, which why I
thought the perfect next step was like, great, do you
want to get a beer?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Like do you want to go out? Do you want
to date?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
And she was like no, I have no interest in that,
And immediately that tells me that needs to be somebody
that I'm dating, Like.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I can't, like, I don't want to not go in
a day. Now I'm annoyed.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
So time and time again, I was actually in Vegas
for work and I get to stay at the top
the travel story and this made me sound so shay, yeah,
it does a little bit, but I get to stay
at these really nice rooms. Kind of makes me sound
like a jerk too, because I take a video of
my room, I take a video of the strip. I
show her all this like bougie life that I'm living
on someone else's corporate dime.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So why I thought that made me look cool, and
Maddie kind of was like, hmm, what do you do?
What is your life? What's going on?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
And so then she inevitably told me no again, and
I asked her out again and she said no again,
and finally she gave me a bone by saying, I'm
going to be in Massachusetts for a hockey tournament, staying
two exits away from my parents' house, and I'm like,
oh my gosh, I will also be coaching in the
same tournament. When is your game and she's like, mine's
(11:50):
at nine. I'm like mine's at nine and ten. She's like,
I don't think anyone's playing after us, but like, okay,
it's like yah, I'm in a different rank. It's no biggie,
But like, do you want to meet for a drink?
She's like sure, Well I said that because it was
like five and I had to drive up from Connecticut
because I'm not coaching in this tournament. I'm not involved
in any way, shape or form. But I thought if
the date was bad, I'll just go to my parents' house.
So I drove from Connecticut to go on this date.
(12:12):
Because if you say no six times, like I know,
the answer should be yes. I know we should be dating.
It wasn't really a date, but okay.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
We've got a beer in a hotel lobby. So it's
like the best I could have gotten.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
And then you fell in love with me because I
knew that you wanted to date me.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You were just wrong. And how that's the most accurate
retelling of that story.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
Well, I didn't find out that you weren't coaching until
we were.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Married, because that's a little bit of a thirsty part
of the story.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
So that doesn't need to go in.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
But for the most part that's accurate.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I think that's one hundred percent what happened.
Speaker 6 (12:51):
You were very persistent that just was living my life.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
You didn't know that we were going to be perfect.
Speaker 7 (12:57):
Yeah, we ended up like all of a sudden, one
beer turned in like a billion not beers.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
No, one beer turned into like a billion hours of conversation.
We only had.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
I had a love of beers.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I was driving, no I know, but I but we
were sitting there.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Actually got me a bud light and I was like, yeah,
I'll take a bud light. I don't think I've had
a bud light since I was like twenty one.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Yeah, I don't think but light anymore either.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
I don't even know why I said yes. I should
have just asked for a glass of wine.
Speaker 6 (13:24):
Yeah, And then we elvis at the bar was closing.
Speaker 7 (13:26):
Then we moved to the lobby and talked in the
lobby and then I like looked at my phone.
Speaker 6 (13:32):
I was like, oh my god, it was like five am.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, it was a long time.
Speaker 7 (13:36):
At seven and we looked outside and the sun was
coming up, was the most beautiful sunrise. So I walked
you out to your car and then you left and
then we went to that French place where I'm like,
you asked me out to dinner. So I drove up
to Connecticut where we Haven, Yeah, New Haven.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yes, and I couldn't. I didn't looked at the.
Speaker 7 (13:54):
Menu and the only thing I was like, quail sounds
kind of like at might chase like chicken.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
And then the guy in the back up to us
and we both played hockey professionally at the time.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, and the guy that was the that was the
bus boy.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Bus boy goes, I know her, she plays hockey, and
I kind of like perked up because I played hockey
in the air and they were like you when they
pointed to you, and I was like, I also play hockey.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
But then that's when we went to dinner and I
like didn't.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Eat, and then we went out for burgers and so
and we went to karaoke and then went to karaoke
and then I picked you a normal song to sing
and then you pick me Girl on Fire by Alicia Keys.
I'm not a good singer, so I thought, this is
the end of our relationship because this is gonna be embarrassing. Yeah,
And then the guy took the mic out in my
hand and started singing for me.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
He like told me I was bad. That was brit.
I was like, I'm on a date. He was like,
I don't care, you're awful.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
That place was fun though.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
It was like a legit karaoke bar. Yeah. Yeah, like
the little rooms. Yeah, that was wicked fun.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
And then and then I asked you to come to
San Diego because I had to go anyway. And then
we went from San Diego, we drove went to Lego Land,
which is actually for children, it's not for adults. And
so then we had like a date a Lego Lan
because you're a child, but like it was only children
and us, and we went on a kiddie ride, Like
we went on a ride that was for actually for children.
It was like comically, oh yeah for children that thought, yeah,
(15:11):
they thought the kids in front of us were our children. Yeah,
And the poor kids were like, please get those women
away from me.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I think there was Then we went to the San
Diego Zoo. Then we went to Huntington Beach.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Then we went to la and then we flew home
because I had meetings the whole off the coast. And
then you brought Zoe, so we had a dog in
La driving up the coast, went to Legoland, San Diego Zoo.
Then you got the best Brussels Brouts in the world.
Then we went to the bird cage and I was like,
this woman hit on me and I was like, hm me,
(15:42):
they're my options. I was like, us, think what the
one I flew with for now?
Speaker 6 (15:48):
We got engaged, and we knew we wanted to have
kids right away.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
You were trying to convince me to have a baby
before we got married, to have the baby at the wedding.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
You're a crazy person. I don't know.
Speaker 7 (15:57):
Yeah, we got engaged the year we won, and then
you retired and we were planning the wedding and you
were running the PA.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I got to a point where I'm like looking at
my life and in season three.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I ran the PA.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
I was a player at the time and also not
feeling like I was doing the most to contribute on
the ice, and I definitely felt like I was doing
so much more for the PA. So I got to
that point where I'm like, hmm, my time benefit to
the game is in the boardroom, not on the ice anymore.
Like I always said, like I picked the boardroom over
the locker room. So when I made that transition, which
(16:35):
if anyone looked at like our on ice pedigree, it
always made sense that I was going to be that person.
But when we first started dating, I was like, I
don't want to use my eggs. I don't want them
to be like me because a lot of my upbringing
and everything, like I struggle with anxiety and depression and
had these really tough times in my like high school,
(17:00):
will age into college, and so I got really nervous
about that. And so we were basically talking about doing
IVF your egg and then I carried, and then we
got through that whole process.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
And kind of came to the conclusion of, well, we.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Can't handle anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Made anymore be really stressful. No, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
I think we just thought nurture nature. If we're well prepared,
we can handle anything. And so we went with my
eggs my body, and then we went through IUI, which
is interuterine inception. So basically they tested to see if
I functioned like a you know, quote quote fertile woman
would and fertile because you go to a fertility clinic,
(17:44):
it's so many people that aren't dealing with that and
so you really have to figure out like fertility clinics
that understand the lgbt QIA family.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Because it's really hard.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Like I would be surrounded by women that were infertile,
and so their struggles are not my struggles, and their
narrative is not my name narrative, and it's sad and
I'm and I in my heart breaks in that scenario
when I'm in these like you know, community groups that
we started going through because we're like we're going to
do everything.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
We're going to do the meditation, We're going to do this,
We're gonna and I We're all in. We were all in.
I was up there. They were like fiftyet older. I
was like, I'm there, We'll take there. You're twenty six,
get out.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
But it was like it was one of those things
where you just don't know what to expect, and so
you surround yourself with people that are going through a
similar thing.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
So that's how we kind of started.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
And when I stepped away from hockey and got into
you know, trying to prep to be that like pregnant person,
it was like I would change my eating and my
training and then read.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
All these books and like go through this whole like
you know thing.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
So we did that for about a year prior finding
our sperm donor was really hard. I feel like I
thought it would be easier, but then we kind of
got into this weird like apex.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
We're like, are we playing God? Are we What are
we doing here?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
So we're having the world's most powerful vending machine.
Speaker 8 (18:58):
Yes, yes, like the filters and you could be like
brown hair, blue eyes, six foot four, Like that feels
like weird Harvard acceptance, Yeah, because you.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Don't want to, like could you imagine if you went
to the bar as like a heteronormative situation and be like,
give me your birthing.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It's crazy, it's crazy.
Speaker 6 (19:17):
And all the genetic testing so you can't like genetically
they're perfect.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, yeah, they won't let you.
Speaker 9 (19:23):
Well, their job is to create a perfect right, like
or a healthy baby, right. Yeah, but you're there because
you most people, more people in that situation, right, are
struggling with fertility. And then you're the same sex couple
who walks in like with perfect reproductive abilities, but you
have to go through all the same tests and process.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Yeah, and then well then they and then the other
issue is like you don't seem that like a problem
per se, because you don't have a problem per se,
you just aren't, like biologically, it's not.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
The mechanics, so you feel like it's going to be easy.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
And then our first run through before our son, I
had gotten pregnant, and we went home and we were like.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
All jazzed up and with my family for Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So Maddie runs out to the door to call the doctor.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
They were like, tell me, just take a pregnancy test
at home, because like we knew she was pregnant, which
most people don't know in the progress makes and so
we knew you were pregnant, and then we called the doctor.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Whatever.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
So Maddie runs out for the test and then tampon's
which is like the saddest thing then both of those
things in your hands at the same time. And also
Mattie just parents just reached their house with this gorgeous
white floor, like this white tile floor with white friggin'
like grout like blood all over it.
Speaker 6 (20:50):
All.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Right, that was awful, But anyway, I ended up having
a miscarriage. And we go downstairs and we're like reeling
because it's all happening in real time, and we open
up this little box with my brother.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
And his wife were waiting for us with this little
box in the kitchen.
Speaker 10 (21:05):
Because they're pregnant, and I'm like and it was like
so like I like was so you open it up right,
and we're like so happy, so happy for my brother
because it's it's him and his wife's first baby.
Speaker 6 (21:21):
But then like but like so sad, so sad because.
Speaker 7 (21:25):
I immediately look at on you and I'm like, oh
my god, like, how do I what do I do?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
That was?
Speaker 4 (21:31):
That was awful.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
That was awful, and it was just like a perfect
like because seriously at the moment, we were both like,
this is the happiest thing and it's and we're so
this is the best thing in the world because it
was the first baby in the family.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Too. Well, then we waited because you were like I
needed a month.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Yeah, you were like trying to like work harder. That
was what can I do?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
That was awful?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Yeah, we changed all my medicine around and they did
like they did more hormones and did more shots. We changed,
like we changed the plan and so I needed a month.
I also needed a month to just like get over that.
And then you got pregnant and then I got pregnant
right before Christmas and then and now that's just my
lucky month.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
So I will literally never walk into a doctor's office
in December.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Because then Harlan, our second one, the same kind of
thing happened.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
We had two miscarriages with Harlan.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
It took four attempts and we only bought eight from
our donor.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
So it was our last donor attempt.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
So when our last attempt, it was like literally a
hill Mary after a miscarriage.
Speaker 7 (22:29):
I'm like, just do it, and Whalen cry the whole
After you got pregnant. With Whalen, I went to one
doctor appointment and then.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
COVID hit, Okay, that sad for you. I totally hear
and understand your perspective.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But spending the entire pregnancy going to all those appointments
alone and then at the very end of the line
they let you back in.
Speaker 6 (22:51):
In my defense, the first doctor of Wointman I went to.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Where I ever saw him.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It was like.
Speaker 7 (23:00):
Thirty mile away lighthouse flickering in the distance, like it
was just like a tiny little like thing on the screen. Yeah,
and then I never I have to live vicariously through
ultrasounds I'm not in details and occasional face times when
when the nice nurse.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Was in the room, I'm not a detailed person, so
I definitely.
Speaker 6 (23:15):
And then I come back and they've got the baby
on this like eighty.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Foot wall and the doc's like, oh, he's going to
be big.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You literally, I'm just saying.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
It wasn't like you literally said to me Ill No,
you go, it's going to be a big baby.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Oh my god, Oh, I said, writing history right now.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
You literally went, ew, he's going to be a big baby.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
He said, Oh, how big? I said, Oh, he's going
to be big?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
How big? Are we talking?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
You said, iw And I don't think. And then and
then at when we when he comes to the world,
it's COVID, so we're everyone's wearing masks. We have like
one nurse, one doctor. It is a lean team in
this room. Maddie's like holding a leg. This is true,
(24:04):
and she's like the nurse in the background's like, get.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Her a juice.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I'm like, if you give her a juice right now,
I will throw something across the room.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
It must passed out.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Then Whylan comes and he aspirated his own feces.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
So we had like all the doctors in there. Yeah,
like and it's like this whole big procedural thing, like
everything's happening. They bundle him up, they put him on
my chest. I am a zombie. I'm half asleep. Maddie's like,
let's take a picture. This is amazing. I'm like, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
I don't know about the picture right now, but I'm
like whatever, fine, So take the picture and Addison immediately
fires it off to like everyone in the world, my boss,
I send it the boss, the friends, the family, everybody.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I fall asleep. I sleep for like twenty five hours.
I wake up. I look at the photo in like
five group chats that I'm.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
In my nipples showing I'm like, Nattie, you couldn't have
checked my nipple before you send this picture to the war.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I was so excited.
Speaker 7 (25:05):
I was so excited that I have never wished more
that that edit button existed.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Well, thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I mean, I know that this is one major topic
and we'll only be diving into more. Will be certainly rehashing,
and then we'll talk about everything from hockey kids, I UI,
the fact that you almost passed out with two of
our children, the you know, juggling all the things, having
the kids run into the shower in the locker room,
all the chaos, because that's just what happens in the
(25:35):
Packer house.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
It's always chaotic, but it's always fun. We always find
a way.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
We always find a way.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
So we're gonna wrap here and next episode we have
one of my favorite people in the entire world.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Babe.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I know you share this opinion. It is more than
an athlete, more than a mom. She is Megan Duggan,
and that should mean enough. But if you're not a
hockey person.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Who is she?
Speaker 5 (25:59):
She is a three time Olympian, she's a gold medalist,
she's a world champion, she's a Patty Kasmier winner, she's
a mom of three.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Now, she is.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
A player development guru with the New Jersey Devil. She's
just all incredible things in the world of hockey. And
she had kids around the same time, a little bit
before us. And she's someone that I've learned from as
a player through my journey. She's an incredible person and
I'm so excited to have a conversation with her and
share that with the world because we can all learn
a lot from her leadership. And her kindness.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Let's always talk to Meghan Duggan. Let's just have this
pod be talking to Meghan Duggan. We'd have the most fun.
And that's all we have today. Thank you for listening.
I'm Onya Packer and.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
I'm Madison Packer and this is These Packs Puck.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
These Packspuck is a production of Iheartwomen's Sports and Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. It's hosted by us Madison and
Anna Packer. Emily Maronov is our senior producer and story editor.
We're mixed in Bustard by Beheath Fraser, and our executive
producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz, and Ali Perry.
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