May 13, 2025 • 49 mins
It’s a post–Mother’s Day special! Anya sits down with her amazing mom, Lori—the woman who taught her discipline, compassion, and the importance of family. Lori reflects on what Anya was like as a child, shares her best parenting advice, and talks about the joy of watching her daughter become a parent. She also opens up about Anya’s coming out journey and how she supported her through some of her most challenging mental health struggles as a teenager.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm a recently retired pro hockey vet, a founding member
of the National Women's Hockey League, a pillar in the PHF,
and an inaugural member of the PWHL Sirens.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
And I'm Anypacker, also a former pro hockey player, also
founding member of the National Women's Hockey League. But today
I'm a full Madison Packer. Stand.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Anya and I met through hockey, then we got married,
and now we're moms to.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Two awesome toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
And on our new podcast, These Packs Puck, we're opening
up about the chaos of our daily lives, between the
juggle of being athletes, raising children and all the messiness
in between.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Hey, Packy, how's it going.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
What's going on with you?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
We're down in Florida. Still just got back from New York.
We've been here, there, and everywhere.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Why were you in New York? Before we get into it.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
I was at the espnW summit talking about Hey in.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Sport, let's go mama.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It was fun.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah. Well, now you're back and we have a hockey
hot take that we simply must get into because we
are officially in the world of playoffs.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hockey hot take. I can't believe the way everything occurred
towards the end of season. So tail end of season,
I'll give you context. Tail end of season. New York
is out, there's no question, and there's this like crazy
clinching scenario. So New York is playing Montreal, so they're out,
and Montreal and Toronto are fighting for first place. If
(01:32):
Montreal beats New York in regulation, they clinch, they are
first place. Period that scenario one. The only scenario where
there would be a different first place is if Toronto
beat Ottawa in regulation and Montreal lost to New York.
Likelihood of that happening was a little bit lower, but
that was in regulation, So that was the setup for
(01:55):
first place. Then betwixt the other three all fighting first,
Ottawa needed a point off Toronto to get even into
the conversation.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Boston had been in for most of the season. However,
the only way that Boston was out is if they
lost to Minnesota and Ottawa won. So Boston Ottawa in
the first tie breaking scenario was games in regulation meaning
regular play sixty minutes.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Ottawa came alive at the end.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
They actually had the most so when it came down
to a tie breaking situation, Ottawa was going to win
that tie break.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
That's what it was. In the end.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
It was interesting though, because everyone had the ability to
control their own fate.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Correct Boston needed one point to solidify themselves. Had they
gotten just one point off of Minnesota, it wouldn't have
been a question. No clinching scenarios would take place. Now,
paint the picture. You're in Boston, you're on home ice,
you have a healthy team, your goalies back, your goalies
back back after a long break, but back nonetheless. And
(02:57):
the first period, second period, your midway through the third period,
and it is seven to nothing. This is Minnesota firing
on all cylinders. Like you said, they're hungry, they want
to win. They're gonna put the puck in the back
of the net. First period, they're three goals down. It's
three to nothing, no changes. Second period, two more goals,
five goals heading into the beginning of the third period,
(03:18):
and you think to yourself, it's not a hill too
high to climb, so these things are possible. But they
just couldn't string it together. And in the final like
five minutes of the game, just to Geralimo scores and
the police goes ballistic because this is the last goal
they see from their twenty four to twenty five season
for Boston on the ice. They cannot come back from that.
(03:38):
So this whole playoff scenario goes out and Montreal, Toronto,
Minnesota Ottawa is the ranking. So there's two teams that
are out now, New York being again second year in
a row not making playoffs, brutal for the New York market.
All that to say, who you picking for playoffs?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
I mean, I think the best team is Montreal, but
I think it's interest. I mean, obviously there's there's so
much that goes into picking your opponent.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Right, they picked Ottawa. I wouldn't have picked Autawa.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I wouldn't have either. Wait, I'm dead that you just
said that, because they saw I watched that pick on
Jocks and Jill's and I thought to myself.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
That team's coming alive and we were really critical. So
I take it back. I think that Hirshfield did a
good job. He stuck to his guns. We were like,
you're crazy, buddy, Like it's and the team just found
away at the end. I will say, though, and I've
said this from day one. I love Carl McCloud as
a coach. I think that she is the kind of
coach that that fires you up to go through a
wall for her.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I think she inspires her players.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
I think no matter what your role is, I mean
you look look at a player like Shian dark Angelo,
who has been up down, here, there, and everywhere. She's
found a really solid spot on that second line. She's
earned it, She's worked her ass off every day to
get into that position. Just hell of a hockey player.
But I think that she's just she's taken time to
understand her team, and the whole staff has taken time
to really put it together and be patient with it.
(04:52):
And to their credit, they they figured out a way
down the stretch to win. And that's just that's a
team that looks like they really love each other, right,
and they've got good players Emily Brian Jenner, Darkangelo, I'm
missing a bunch.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
There's tons of on that team.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Yeah, nish, but they also it's just a group of
players that you can tell everyone from the top down
is inspired by their role.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Well, I was gonna say, it's also not a group
of players that show up in the top twenty five.
You know, top point getters, right, like one or two
Emily Clark Venisiva like those are their scorers, right. But
for the most part, it's a team that contributes on
all levels. And we talk about this all the time.
A team that has parody so Daknet, dude, soir Dakney's insane.
But like a team that has parody across scoring, that
(05:33):
can score on all three four lines is so dangerous
because Montreal heavily relies on their top line and if
you can get somebody that can pump in a third
line goal, that's a dicey pick.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I think it's gonna be Montreal or Toronto, but I
think that I wouldn't be surprised if Montreal was stunned
by Autawa.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I want to see a Toronto Autawa final, with Toronto
winning at the final game, like right, I want best
story and I want that. I want that rag stor
which is like first four weeks in last place to
winning for Toronto.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
The best thing for the league would be to have
a Canadian and American team. I don't but I don't
think that Minnesota's I think that Minnesota.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I think that can happen too.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
I think that the other teams are in a different
class than Minnesota right now. Minnesota did what they need
to do at the end of the year. But the
hardest thing to do is end the team's season, right.
They exploded at the end. Now everyone's playing playoff hockey
and it's best three out of five.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It's the best team is going to win.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Well, we shall see, and we shall continue to keep
our eye on it. I think this episode will have
aired when some of the games have already played, so
we'll see if prior us we're right about future happenings.
But let's do a little check in.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
How you doing.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Give me a number one to one hundred.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
I'm gonna be real for our listeners and all my
stay at home moms out there. I'm like A twenty
seven because we are getting ready to go back to
Connecticut and I just found out that we don't really
have childcare and Mama Anya also known as Tanya when
I'm mad at her, is traveling a lot and it
(07:10):
is daunting. So I'm hanging out at A twenty seven today.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
I'm sorry for that. The situation with the babysitter is
quite frustrating. I will say I don't feel great either.
To be fair, I don't know what's happening. Last night
we were watching TV in bed, and I am getting
old because I literally leaned over to grab some water
and I threw my whole back out alignment. And now
I'm in so much pain. I'm literally sitting on a donut.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
So I am maybe you should spend less time on airplanes.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Okay, so excited for this check in?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
This chicken is Well, what's your number? I'm a twenty seven.
You better find a way to come up with a
seventy three woman.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I don't think i'm there today. I think we're going
to leverage a little Disney Plus to boost up the numbers.
I think I'm at like a forty. I don't feel good,
and so then I wasn't able to go to the
gym at all.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Buckle up because we're going out to dinner tonight and
we already find sixty seven.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yeah, we're not. We're not in our best case scenario.
I promise you that. But that's okay. My parents will
be there. My mom's probably exhausted because she's had baby Sean,
which is my brother's son. But I'm very excited because
we just wrapped Mother's Day and we get to head
into a conversation with my favorite person, which is my mom.
(08:27):
I'm really excited to have my mom on the pod.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Love us a good lowload chat, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Good Lola. Chat's always really nice. And my Mom's been
through it all, and I think, you know, I always
look to her for advice. I always call her when
I need to vent. She lovingly reminds me that she
didn't have Google and I could just google it, so
I should stop complaining. But I love my mom and
I think it's so fun that we were able to
have a conversation with her, pick her brain, ask some questions.
So without further ado, you guys get to meet the
(08:52):
person that made me so Buckle up, listeners. I am
(09:13):
incredibly excited because today we have quite literally my favorite guest.
Without her, I would not be here, And you think
who could That inspiring individual's physically actually my mom. So Mom,
welcome to the pod.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Tell the listeners, we'll call you one hundred names today.
I will lovingly call you Mom, but we also call
you lolo. Who are you in our world? And also
tell everybody who else is in our family? Maybe give
us a little background.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Okay, Well, I'm the mother to two great children. One
you know very well, it's Anya. The other you've not
met her older brother John, who Anya her whole life
has tried to chase down and become better than one.
Failing there, failing, Okay again, not going to pick a
favorite child.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
There you go.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
And I'm married to my husband of thirty something many years,
so it's small family dynamic. Both of our kids are
married with great grand with grandchildren and then a wonderful
additions to our family. I come from a tight Armenian
family with one brother, and we're all still very close.
And I'm blessed enough to say my parents are still alive.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yes, we have the whole crew, Papa, Gig and Gigi Aya,
and Mom goes by Lolo for the kids. So we
have Lauri Mom. Yeah, Maddie calls her Lolo.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
And to set up the scene growing up, my mom,
right when I was really little, was divorced, and then
my stepdad came into our lives, and my whole life
has been Dad. But let's go before all that. Mom,
you were raised in an Armenian Apostolic family one hundred
percent Armenian. Did sports play a role in your life
kind of like what was growing up in that household
(11:02):
and then what was growing up in high school and
in et cetera with sports? What was your connection to it?
Speaker 5 (11:06):
Well, sports for at my age was a little more limited.
The sports that we could do were more like track
are swimming, and not necessarily organized team sports where the
school funded a team. So I was would have been
the best outfielder in the high school for sure, because
all I did was shag balls that my brother played
to me in the outfield. But I was a big swimmer,
(11:28):
so being from an Armenian household, we had the thing
on Labor Day every year called the Armenian Olympics, and
it traveled across the country and I always was on
their swim team. I butterfly breaststroke in freestyle, so I
still love to swim, So sports was important. We always
watched sports, but I didn't play sports in an organized
(11:48):
fashion like you guys were able to do. I wish
I could have. I think I really would have enjoyed it.
But a little bit of basketball, a little bit more softball,
and then was a.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Swimmer tough life, low though.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
No sports, no no way to get to my frustration.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
No sports for girls. I want to back up for
a second. Two things. One Armenians.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
I like to think about myself as being well educated.
I didn't know what or where Armenia was until I
met Anya. Two, knew nothing of the Armenian genocide. Three
the food is phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Well that's that Middle Eastern diet that everyone's finally getting
jumping on board now so that they can live to
be one hundred years old. My grandparents all lived well
into their nineties.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
So we've gone through Lolo's childhood. I want to dive
into Anya's childhood.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
All right, eh, oh gosh, okay, i'll edit it.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Oh well, we're raising Harlan, so they usually say what
you give is what you get.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Time too, growing up? Who is Anya? How was she?
Who was she? What's that look like? And don't be nice, Lolo.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
I won't be nice, But as I tell my children, beest,
I'm not a liar. This is just how I remember it.
She was perpetual motion from the minute she was born.
One of my the funniest memories have was remember Dad
used to have to go buy her bathing suits, and
one day she came down stairs. Were at dinner, and
she proceeded to model like seven bathing what kid needs
seven bathing suits? And one time, no idea, she would
(13:20):
come down and model the bathing suits and then put
on a dance party. She was just literal, perpetual motion
from the time she could walk, which was at I
think you started walking at like eleven months.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
It was.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
Achiever under achiever, yeah, but very kind like she was
like always concerned and curious, but kind to other kids.
So she was She was easy to have as a
kid for the most.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Part, except they didn't sleep.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Other than she didn't sleep, but then she grew up.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I didn't sleep when I grew up either, to be fair.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
No, she would literally go up to stairs at you
at eight o'clock, I mean in eighth grade, at like
eleven o'clock to start her homework. Meanwhile, I was already
asleep in the room next door, and she'd be slamming
around her bedroom and I'd have to get out of
bed and yell at her, and well that's top. But
she got up and popped up at six o'clock in
the morning to go to school. Not a problem.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
So I don't need to sleep. I don't think I'm
a sleeper.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Well I am, and you are loud.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
It's a lot to kind of like wrangle in and focus.
So when did you kind of get that concept that
you could wrangle it in and focus it on one thing?
Because I very much remember my first time on the ice,
but from your vantage pointer for maybe you and Dad, like,
what was that? Like, how did you guys see me
take all of that crazy energy? And then I think
I was four? How did I put that into that?
Speaker 5 (14:36):
No, so you were actually two, John was in mites
and you caver achiever. No. So while she she was
going to be three soon, and she said to her
father can I skate? And he said sure, So we
got her skates and he gave her the milk cartons
and she went twice across the ice and she said,
do I have to use these? And he said, well no,
thinking she's going to fall on her face, and she
(14:58):
just took off. But it was perf because it burnt
a lot of energy. So skating for her, like we
got around the ice as much as we possibly could,
because she came home at least a little tired and
a little worn down. But she went from either the
dance studio do you remember that on it to the
hockey rink and the boys because she played with all
boys would say no, Tutu's in the locker room and
(15:21):
she'd get so mad. But yeah, she started very young.
And then I think we got you on your first
team before we fibbed about your age, but they didn't
know because you skated so well.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, November birthday was tough, and then also kind of
like we talked about being Armenion a little bit in that,
but also throughout all of that, we also had church
on Sunday. And church in our house isn't just church, right,
It's Sunday schools, it's the extra it's going down to
the kitchen and cooking, it's coming together after church. So
that takes a lot of regiment and structure to make
(15:55):
sure that that's still happening while you're also raising somebody
who's really focused on sports, who's really not focused on
a bunch of other things. Think there was always kind
of this push and pull with me where I was
either dancing or on skates or at the church, and
that was really like my two kind of vibes when
I was growing up, So you know, how did you
balance that because there's a lot of times where we
(16:15):
had to not go do things because we had church,
or not go to church and then deal with that
kind of guilt. You know, maybe different in other cultures,
but like kind of grapple with that duplicitousness.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
Right, Well, that sort of goes back to the two kids,
two parents. When you're out numbered, it's a little harder,
a lot of divide and concer depending on who what
was important to the adult, Right Like if Dad hadn't
seen you skate in a while, he would go. I
always had the church duty because obviously that was the
most important to me, so I would get you to
Sunday school. But the other thing was your brother is
(16:48):
four years older than you, so your stuff didn't conflict
as much time wise, like when you were in the
early morning, he was late night or midday. So it
wasn't as hard as what I thought it would be.
But it was just years of doing nothing but driving
you guys everywhere you needed to go and doing everything
that you needed to do, and then figuring out which
(17:09):
one was the priority over the other at any given
conflicting time.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
But in all seriousness, was that hard easy.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
I mean, it's all you knew in the moment. Right
when you look back at you're like, how the heck
did I do all that? But when you were doing it,
it was what you did because you do anything for
your kids. If someone told me now at sixty one,
i'd have to do it, I couldn't do it right, Like,
my energy level at thirty five was way better than
my energy at my age. Now. Hence when your kids
(17:39):
won't go to bed and I'm like, can I please
go to bed? It's ten o'clock.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I'm going to close that door and bolt it shut,
thank you.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
But no, it was love. We loved every minute of it.
It's what we did. It became our social life. It
became our you know, like catch meals together as a family.
That's how you did it. Was like, you know, i'd say,
on you, okay, John has game, we got to go,
or John on has a game, you got to go
because we're going to go to dinner because we haven't
had dinner together as a family and you know, three
days and that's just not acceptable. So we made it
(18:09):
be part of the structure of what we did to
get everybody what they needed, but still remain a really
close family.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I think that was part of my childhood that I
remember so much, is that we just had this like
impenetrable closeness. And I think that comes with you were
from a family of four. Then we had a family
like four total people, not four kids. Like we just
kind of moved like a square. There was always that
line of connection, and I always really appreciated how much
you guys valued that because not to bury the lead,
(18:37):
but you also started a three location small business and
ran that completely unilaterally. You know, you own storefronts. You
built this thing from nothing in the party good space,
and we all kind of like leaned into it, right.
It was like the big joke. But like I would
figure out how many things I had to price so
that the pricing tail was a certain length so that
(18:58):
I could have a free candy, you know, and later
in life, I'm like, you could have just taken that candy.
It maybe cost you two cents, mom, But it's fun
how much hard work I had to learn? So how
much did you intentionally push on me? And how much
did I just do automatically in that work hard? Because
I think that's like the core of my life and
why I have and have achieved all the things that
(19:19):
I have.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
I think it was you learned it mostly by example
more so than words.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Right.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
We didn't ever say you had to do this, but
you saw Dad working a job and then being a
city councilor you saw me running my own business multiple stores.
You came in and work. You know, when someone would
call out sick, you came. You had no choice. Your
Friday and Saturday night were canceled because someone had to
come work. You know, if I'm in Wooburn and you
needed to be in Marlborough, you had to be there.
(19:46):
So yeah, I think you learned it primarily from that.
But then you guys got creative. Right when when you
got to call at high school, we said, you know,
we'll buy you car, but we're never putting gas in it.
Like you have to be. We know you're a three
sport athlete, but you have to do these things. And
that's when John started cleaning offices, and then from that
he would grow that and then when he went to college,
(20:09):
you took it over and you cleaned offices all through
high school. I always say, both of you guys college.
Same thing between the scholarship money and everything else. We
never gave you any spending money, but you didn't pay
a dime for college. But you worked. You both worked,
You bartended, you did whatever it took him. Both of
you graduated with more money in the bank than you
went to school with because you figured out a way
(20:29):
to hustle, to bartend if you had to work for
a catering company, or to sell back the textbooks that
you didn't read. The he knows what.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
You deal them from the scholarship athletes to sell them.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Yeah, all those things, but you always watched it in
the house, whether it was us or whether it was
Puppa and Aya and volunteering and being at the church.
I think that's a very strong Armenian trade, right. We
are entrepreneurial by spirit, and nothing has been given to us.
Your grandparents, you know, died for you to get to
live here. So we just dig in like there's not
(21:04):
anything that you can't do that someone that you're related
to didn't do something harder than.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
When you're the offshoot of a genocide survivor. It's pretty
hard to be like, mom, I really don't want to
go do this shift at trikon Sports because it's it's
been worse for someone else, just so that we'ld stupid. Yeah,
you got really nothing to say. We go through all this, right,
we'll go down a little bit of a kind of
through line of my life. We talk about it now
very openly, but in high school we didn't. And they
(21:30):
had a challenge, right, Like somebody wrote me a card
one time that said, like your whoopsie's out of whax.
So you're you're who's it called? And what's it? You know?
Is whatever? Like it was this big one car with
a bunch of like really funny words. But the end
of the day, I tried to take my own life.
I've never, until having kids, ever wrapped my mind around
what the perspective was like for you. And I think
(21:52):
it's something that is impossibly hard, and it's something that
we talk about all the time, and it's something that
you know, as a as a three sport athlete that
felt like, for whatever reason, I just couldn't. I couldn't
do it anymore. That's not lost on me how challenging
it was. Talk a little bit about how you've supported
your kids through some really dark times.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
So there's no roadmap for that, right, there's it's easier now.
I pray every night that you never understand what that
feels like. But it was not something that you talked about,
and there was not something you talked about with anyone
other than your immediate spouse, not even your your your
(22:33):
I guess my brother I talked to it about. But
your friends. You kept it all to yourself, which is
your generation is made major inroads. So yeah, there was
a lot of just being there and being present and
being there on those times when you felt excluded or
you didn't make a team like you just it was uncertainty.
I never knew what it was that was going to
(22:54):
get you there because I didn't understand it because I
didn't have those same similar issues personally, so I probably
was hyper sensitive to things that you probably could have
handled yourself. I tried to jump in and intercede on
where I didn't need to, So maybe that was how
I handled it. It was just about being there and
being present and showing up and not knowing the right
(23:16):
thing to do, but just knowing that something had to
be done and asking questions and talking to your counselors
or whatever it may be. But I think it also
showed up in the help that whether it was me
or Dad or John, that we again kind of rallied
around as a team and said, this person has a
weakness right now, how do we all fill the gap
to support them and build them up so that they
(23:38):
can then thrive like we are thriving. And I think
at any given time, in any given family, a different
person has a different weakness that you need to support.
So we were always there to sort of answer that
as a parent, it's the worst thing in the world
that you're going stup. It's not the worst, It's almost
the worst thing you could live through.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
So I want to stay here for a second, because
we were talking the other day. You have friends who
listen to the podcast. Shout out to them and we
did a mental health episode. They talk to their kids
about it, shared it with their kids. We talk about
we talk about this stuff. I think that most people
don't realize it's way more common that anyone wants to
(24:20):
talk about like you have. You have two very high functioning,
high performing children who have struggled severely with their mental health,
and now look at what they've done. So isn't it
an incredible when we have the attention and the resource
and the things that we need in the understanding to
like pivot, step, help whatever, and then what that can
(24:42):
turn into versus this thing's horrible. We're not going to
talk about it, like no one wants to talk about it.
But I think that's a huge part of it. And
I think that's a huge part of the story. Like
mental health is a real thing. Mental illness is a
real thing. And the more or that we can draw
attention to the stories of people who have struggled with it,
(25:04):
either severely or not, but then look what they've gone
to do, it's hugely important.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Right.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
Yeah. The mother that two people talked about it and
one person listens to the podcast herself as an adult.
She's a peer of mine, and she listens to it.
And she has a daughter that's actually gonna be going
to Division one in sports when she goes to college.
But she said to me, I've never talked to my
girls about this, but this opened the door to allow
me to talk to them about it. And I don't
(25:33):
know if they're feeling this because we don't talk about it.
So I made them both listen to it, and then
we had real healthy conversation around it. They both said
to me, you know, there are sadnesses. There are I have,
you know, times where I don't feel myself, but it's
never this extreme, mom. But that's, you know, was very
enlightening and I'm glad I listened to it. I had
(25:54):
another mother who said something to me. She said, I
listened to it. I thought it was great. I send
it to my friend to Germany has a daughter who
now feels very isolated because they had to go there
for work. And she said, I think it's going to
be very helpful for her to talk to her daughter
because her daughter feels so isolated alone. And my fear
is that these could be thoughts that she's happening. So yeah,
(26:14):
I mean, what you girls do, being this raw on
some of these very serious topics will save lives. And
that's no joke. That's if nothing else comes out of
this podcast and you never make a dime, it doesn't matter.
You've saved lives. That's what matters.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
First of all, great take lolo.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Secondly, I was going to rebuttal and thank you because
it's true the saying that people tell you all the
time you'll never love the way that you love a kid,
and you don't understand it until you're a parent, Like
I love my wife to pieces, but I love my
kids in a way that I can't even describe, right, Yeah,
(26:54):
And so I want to thank you for coming here
and talking with us about this, because I can't imagine
talking about that what you went through with your own kids.
And I appreciate you for it because it's important and
way more people go through it than are willing to
talk about and we should.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Talk about it.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Yeah, And I think, like you know to that we've
had a couple of tough conversations and we'll get into
another one of my all time favorites, but we always
find a way to move through it with understanding and love.
And I actually think a lot of that comes from
my dad, which you know, he'll he'll never go to
bed angry, which is almost annoying because you're like, I
don't actually want to talk until three o'clock in the morning,
but he can't sleep unless you kind of like hash
(27:36):
the problem. So we just hash it. That's like what
our family does, and we could find ourselves at a
table until two o'clock in the morning hashing it. I've
always really appreciated that, and I've always really appreciated the
safety that that creates in my own home. You know,
I just can never really remember our family ever like
fighting or yelling, but I can't remember us like really
(27:56):
talking through things. And you know, a short departure is
when I would, you know, ask my mom something. I
would say, Mom, I want to stay out. Everyone gets
to stay out till eleven. And my mom would say, well,
you stay out till ten. And I would say, well,
well for these reasons, you know, and we'd kind of
have this debate. My mom would say, it's not a
dictator it's not a democracy. It's a dictatorship. So you
can make your voice be heard, but at the end
(28:17):
of the day, I'll make a decision for the family,
and I wind. Yeah, sometimes I win, like sometimes I
got a good point. Most of the times I did not.
And then there was this one time I was a
senior and the only time I was allowed to leave
after ten is if somebody was drunken and they were
gonna otherwise drive, I could go pick them up and
drop them off and come home. But this one time
I said to my mom, like, Mom, for real, I'm
(28:37):
staying out and she said, great. At ten oh one,
the resource of me is cut off, so if something
is to occur, you're on your own. So at ten
oh two, at probably a house party, I go, I
gotta go, I gotta go. What is the cabins? I
can't call my mom like what I did. She would
(28:59):
have been like she would have helped, but I was like,
I gotta go home. My mom's not gonna answer the phone.
I appreciate you hard, like putting the line in the sand,
and also like what happened when it's eleven? Though just
f y, okay, maybe it was eleven? What happened when
we lied? What was the what was the fable around
the lie?
Speaker 5 (29:18):
Stick out your tongue and she would they'd stick out
their tongue. I go, you're lying. I don't know what
they thought I saw in their tongue.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
But Anya told me, will you get with the kids?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yeah, we are you lying? Because you tell the confidence
in which they stick the tongue out when they're lying,
and when they are when they're telling the truth, it's
a it's a long tongue out, and when it's a
short one, it's like a complete lie. They just go
quickly It's like, that is a lie.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
Being a parent is tricky.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Being a parent is all about telling the right lies
at the right time. I think another kind of tough moment.
(30:06):
I come home from college and I said to Dad
in the car. I go, Dad, I think I like
girls and my dad if you've met him, to all
those that have shout out. He goes, oh, yeah, I
like girls too.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
That's no, we have something in common.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Yeah, he goes, we have something in common. I'm a
lesbian too. I was like, well, I didn't say lesbian, dude,
calm down. So I'm stressed and I go, I don't
know how to tell mom, and he goes, well, we're
gonna sit down, we'll have dinner, and we'll talk about it.
We just gone through. What you said is like the
second hardest thing a parent will ever deal with, short
of losing their child. And then I come home and
(30:41):
come out. We have this conversation at the dinner table
and it was tough. So bring us through your thought
process there, because I remember so many foundational things that
you said on that day or kind of as we
resolved that and came back together. But what's that like
as a parent, And you know, the generations are different now.
I think it's from conversation today than it was thirty
(31:01):
years ago. But I came out, you know, I was
twenty one. I was twenty you know it was thirteen
years ago.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
Right, Yeah, I mean it's so it's hard now to
put the same words to it because I know that's
all I know you as, and I love your life,
and I love your kids, and I know it's all
fine and safe. But I would say, first of all,
I was shocked, So there was that, and then I
just was like the process I went through. Listen, it's
not my finest moment because I actually had a process.
(31:31):
It was never that I didn't love you immediately, it
was just the whole How am I going to feel
when someone doesn't accept her because she makes a decision
that is not mainstream? How can I support and protect
her from any pain that's going to come from who
she is as a person, not the decision she makes.
It's not a decision, it's who you are, right, But
(31:52):
people see it as that, So it was more coming
from that. I mean, I think there was the part
of the oh, well is there not going to be
a big, fancy wedding, Well, we we knew that that happened.
It was bigger and fancier, But yeah, it was more
about how was I going to protect you from how
mean they were going to be? And it was probably
(32:13):
the people coming more from my generation, which in fact
are fine, but you don't know because you just didn't
know that, And that's that's where it came from. The
concern was how am I going to protect her? How
am I going to teach her and answer questions because
I won't have similar situations, right, Like I could always
guide you as a spouse of a man, like I
(32:34):
could give you how I wet with that. It's different.
I'm sure you and Mathis have different levels of conversations
and different kinds of difficulties that I don't have because
I'm married to a man and I can just fight
over jeans.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
And so you and dead wore the same genes my.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
Shoot exactly, So that's sort of where it was coming from.
And then it was just about, like, I want everyone
to love and accept my child the way I unconditionally
love and accept my child, and is this going to
make them not do it? And then do I have
to start drawing lines in my sand for who I
will and will not keep in my orbit because that
(33:09):
was never going to be an option. If they don't
accept you, I'm conditionally, then I have no place for you.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Yeah, I mean I think a big part of that
in a moment where it kind of made sense to
me where you were coming from. Because naturally, when you're
a person that comes with this vulnerability and kind of
share something and it's not immediately met with love and support,
you feel excluded and that really really hurts. And when
it comes from your mom, who's just trying to figure
it out again, like hindsight, being twenty twenty is not
(33:36):
who I was when I was twenty one telling you
my deepest, darkest secrets. Right, But but there has to
be a level of mourning and you have to kind
of go through that because you thought my life to
be one thing and now it's you know, all the
same things, except it's Madison and not Matthew, right, Like
there's a little difference. I remember this one comment you made,
and you have a best friend, Auntie Maya, and she's
been in your life forever. You know, you were former
(33:58):
neighbors and now you're just like lifelong best friends. And
you said, I could do everything with Auntie Maya. I
love her so much. I can't get to that, you know,
other side of the fence where like I'm in love
with her in that way, but I fully get it.
And I think that was the closest point where I
was like, oh, okay, we're gonna be fine, Like we're
(34:19):
gonna we're gonna navigate this eventually. You know, there's there's
obviously like there's there's a difference and and like we
have to become okay with that. But I remember really
clearly when you said.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
That that was what made the impact.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
That's where I felt like we could draw that line.
I think that that was always something that I appreciated
and I'm sure wasn't easy because to your point, like
you're now trying to figure out if you have to
take these snippers out and remove people from your circle
that maybe don't think that way, And it's much different,
like I said a couple of years ago, even in
feeling comfortable to start being like, yo, this is it
(34:53):
is what it is, like it's okay.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
Yeah, And and truthfully, you had had long term boyfriends
all through high school and it wasn't like you had
no boyfriend right like that would have been. I just
was just caught off guard.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Yeah, well, speaking of some exes.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Long term boyfriends, let's here at lolo.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
No, no, not doing it. I can't kiss and tell
thank you mom.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
You know what I was gonna say, that's a woman
for women. Yeah she is. She's the best. Speaking of boyfriends,
which has nothing to do with anything. I spent a
whole long part of my life playing hockey, and I
think a big piece of that for me and growing
up was was your involvement. And maybe you weren't the
you know, consumate hockey player that was teaching me every
(35:38):
single time, but you joined the board, you got really involved,
You introduced me to the right people, You supported me endlessly,
even though sometimes it was crying because I wasn't the
captain of my high school hockey team. Why did you
do all those things? And was it because you thought
one day I would get there or because you just
were doing the next best thing to support your kid
(35:59):
and something that they loved to do. Because I know
it's expensive. I know it was a lot of like
burden on our family to have all these hockey players
and to deal with all this kind of extra stuff
but kind of talk about what you did at Waltham
Youth Hockey and then why and how you enabled me
throughout the rest of it all.
Speaker 5 (36:14):
So all of it was new to us, right, Dad
played hockey going up to high school, and then his
high school didn't have a hockey team, so we switched
to basketball. So I had no exposure my family. My
brother played basketball, so I needed to understand it. So
that's sort of when I got on the board to
just understand more of it. I initially probably supported you
because you loved it, and then I saw something. I mean,
(36:35):
you hang around enough places and enough rinks and watch
enough skills and tryouts and everything else, and I'm like, Okay,
this kid is better than all the rest, and I
need to now support this because there's more potential here.
If she doesn't want to do it, we'll stop. But
if she wants to go travel to Connecticut and travel
to New York and travel to New Jersey and go
(36:57):
up to Lake Placid or wherever she wants to go,
oh we're going to go. Because she's good enough to
do all of that, and exposing you to all those
things made you even better. But it was the drive
the minute we saw how much interest you had in it,
we had to support it, right, Like if you were
I don't want to go to hockey, like you were
just like, what do you mean there's no hockey today.
(37:19):
We're like, well, it's it's an off day. Wednesdays. There's
no hockey. Every other day of the week there's hockey.
I hate Wednesdays. I'm like, okay, well it's Wednesday. So
that's why we did it, right. We did it because
the passion that you showed, and like I said, that's
what we did as a family. If you had shown
a passion for something else, that would have been the support.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Well, speaking of Lolo, yeah, Anya did show a passion
for something else.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Break dancing.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
The fans need to hear about the World Champion Hip hop.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
Yeah, funny do this.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
I didn't know that until after we were married, which
is like demorializing.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
I think I have the trophy something.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
We took eleven weeks of dance classes.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Stinks.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
You're as imagine imagine finding out on your honeymoon when
you're like so pumped and you're like watching the video back, Okay,
world sounds better.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
We're gonna go all right.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
We literally not until we're on our on our honeymoon,
and I'm so I'm watching the video. I'm like, babe,
look and I'm like, she never practiced, and she's like, well,
like I was.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
I was a pretty good dancer in high school. Eleven weeks.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
She was pre twerking too, with that fanny yeah big,
but yep, no, that's why I said the Armenians full circle,
full circle. The ass is a full circle too. But
that was when they used to say no, no, uh
no to tubes. In the things. She would go. You
(38:58):
would dance three days a week and skate five or
six or whatever the hell, I don't know what it was.
Those are the two things that we did until we
made you. Some coach told you how to do something else,
and then so you took up track for two years.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
That was.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Do you remember that. I do remember that.
Speaker 5 (39:13):
It was and I hate running. Wait, I hate running,
So I'm like, what are you gonna do? Because I
gotta throw the shot put, the javelin and the discuss.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, I just threw everything.
Speaker 5 (39:21):
She was also captain of the debate team and captain
of the athletes because a spotlight hog, because she was
never home enough to be with the in crowd, right, like.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
I was, uh.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
Yeah, she no, not a loser.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
I did a lot, and I think I think I
did so much. I'm ignoring everything you're saying because I actually, yeah, here,
I was not in on the in crowd, but they
had different they cared about different things.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Your own crowd.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
I had my own crowd. I had the hockey crowd.
And then when the hockey crowd was, you know, trying
to go to parties and drink and kiss boys, I
was like, I don't really want to do that either,
so I chose something else to do. And then I
always chose something else to do. And when I was younger,
I remember in high school, you know, I wanted to
train at the specific gym and it was wicked expensive,
(40:14):
and my mom was like, you'll find a way, but
we can't swing it, basically like make it happen. And
so I went to the gym owners and I said,
I'm going to train on this two day week program,
and then i want two other days of programming, and
I'll clean the gym when I do my own programming,
and I'll come I'll wipe down the dumbells, I'll vacuum
up the floors, I'll put everything back where it belongs.
And Mom, how long was I? I was at that
(40:35):
gym until like eleven thirty on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, and
then I would train on Mondays and Fridays, and because
Wednesdays was my day off, and so I hated Wednesdays.
But I did that for like, I think all four years,
and they put out when I was there, probably something
like twenty thirty Division one athletes. It was good. It
(40:56):
was a good crew to be around, to be fair,
it always made me want it more though, which my
mom was always saying, like if I had to buy
my own cell phone, I wouldn't lose it, and she
was right, Like I got my cell phone stolen out
of my locker in high school and I called my
mom crying. Not on my own cell phone. Yeah, yeah,
not on my own cell phone, but I called her crying.
And I think the biggest thing that she always taught
(41:16):
me was like, if you use your own money, you'll
care a lot more. And I think that was like
the driver of my whole hockey career, right. It was
like working at Trikon Sports and getting the call that
I was going to be a recruited walk on it BEU.
I mean I stood in that rack and cried for hours.
I was so excited.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:36):
I think the other part is you are a person
that when you go back and you spoke to those coaches,
you made one of the lines that I repeat the
most that you've said is be the kind of coach
that a person wants to play for, not because of,
and like to prove a man.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
And that's a lot of proved people wrong. Yeah, well
I was mad.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Amen. All right, so lo low mm hmm. You watched
Anya's whole career.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
We get married means the best person ever, second best,
she's the best. She becomes a mom. Talk about watching
Anya become a mom. In my opinion, no offense, you're
the second best. Anya is the best mom on the planet.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
So it's super interesting because her brother just put something
up on his Facebook page. It said, figure out your
why and you'll how is so much easier. But you're
my double why. He Whalen became my double why. Right, Like,
whatever you guys feel for Whalan wait till you're Whalen
(42:39):
has kids. It's times too, but it's fun watching you
both be mothers. But yeah, it's especially fun watching your
own kid, be a mother, because sometimes I'm like, it's
looking in a mirror, which is a little scary because
she says stuff to them. I'm like, oh, I think
I might have said that too. But for the most part,
(43:00):
it's like joy, just pure joy.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
I think the other thing in that too, is coming
to you with my now feels like more important questions.
But like I call you all the time, and that
would be like, you know, my roommate did something that
was annoying to me. I'd call you and you'd be like, yeah,
it is what it is. Relax, I calm down. And
now I'll call you when something about the kids and
(43:26):
you just laugh, which is not helpful, by the way.
I'll call you and I'll be like, Waylan's done this, this, this, this,
and this, and I don't know what to do and
there's poop all over my shirt and you just do that,
you just laugh. And I think that that's like that's
the full circle moment.
Speaker 5 (43:39):
Because you're looking for an answer, right or I'm not
supposed to. I'm not supposed to give you an answer.
It's your child, your mistakes to make, or or or wins.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
To have to clarify. I I call asking for an answer.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
Okay, I I think you know me long.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
Enough, like the in the trenches. Anya's not answering, she's
at a conference.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
So what do I do?
Speaker 5 (44:01):
I mean, you know me now long enough to know
that I guide you, but I don't give you answers
most of the time. I just point you in the
right direction, because it's your mistakes to make or your
wins to have, Like not, I did this already. I've
already been. I've already I've already made all those mistakes.
Hence there's Anya, there's my mistake, like I anything I've
done wrong, You're right, I use I used to always
(44:22):
say to her, I'm sorry, I'll pay for your therapy later.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Because I know I'm putting you on the couch with
this one. And it took me like a while to
figure it out.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
Yeah, so I continue to be here to bring the
humor Lolo, Okay, And I want to know you can
either pick one joint or two solo. But I want
favorite story from Lolo about Maddie and Anya's parents.
Speaker 5 (44:47):
My favorite story about us parents.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, what's your favorite us parent story?
Speaker 5 (44:51):
I think my favorite is not a single moment, but
it's more a process that I watch, like it's frustrating
having two under two, right, I mean two years apart
and watching you like sort of do the dance of
tapping one out when one other is tired and like
ready to lose your patients. And you guys are very
good at figuring out what the dance looks like to
(45:13):
tap the person out when the other person needs support. So, like,
as a parent, that's a proud moment to watch because listen,
I have I have two bio kids. I have two
kids that I didn't give birth to in you and Meg,
and I love you the same and I support you
the same, and I think that watching you both cooperatively
(45:33):
work like that is probably my favorite part of watching
you be parents.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
So what you're saying is you're glad.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yes, I'm glad, unless out there.
Speaker 5 (45:49):
Unless, of course, you were an Armenian boy, because they
would have paid for the wedding.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we always. We always end our episodes
with the same ques. What is the parenting advice that
is the most foundational to you or what parenting advice
did you wish you heard that no one ever shared
with you when you were starting your journey as a parent.
That you want to share with the listeners.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
I've recently heard something that I thought was really good,
which I wish. Someone said, being a parent is hard
only if you're a good parent.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
I love that quote.
Speaker 5 (46:22):
Yeah, well, it's harder to say no, it's harder to
put boundaries, it's harder to set guidelines, all those things
they like punishing a kid, right, Like if you ground someone,
that means you're stuck at home with them too, right.
But those are those are the hard parts. If you're
not being a good parent, you let all that slide
and you just do live your life. So I think
(46:44):
that was the one thing that no one ever said
to me, But I think I learned, and I want
to say to any parent that's listening, being a good
parent is hard. It's hard work, and it's the best,
most rewarding work you'll get.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
I love that. When you're at your wits end and
you're really really tired and you really can't do it anymore,
and you have these two little kids and they rely
on you for everything and you're just like totally spent
to the bone, you have to remember that you feel
that way because you care so much. Like there are
parents that definitely exist in the world that maybe don't
(47:17):
have that level of attention and detail, and that's not
a knock on them, it's just a different thing, right, Like,
so when you're at the bitter end of your rope,
you have to remember that you're there because you care
so much about every single knot that got you to
the end of it. So I love that. Thank you
for sharing that, and thank you for spending time with us.
I know we talked about some things that are pretty tough,
(47:39):
and it's always hard when you have to talk about
things that aren't your proudest or could be your darker days.
But to your point, that's how we all upskill and
get better. And naturally, we could have had this whole
conversation with a bunch of really silly stories about when
John covered his whole body and baby powder, or when
he told me that you guys didn't love me anymore
and then he said right, mom, and you said yeah, obviously, honey,
(48:00):
and he didn't give you the context of what was said,
and like, there's all these crazy, ridiculous stories that happen
in our family and it was always founded in love.
But thank you for joining us on these packs. Puck
and we love you lolo. All right, Well, everybody join
us next week when we talk about literally anything else
(48:21):
versus all of my childhood. Thank you, mommy, I.
Speaker 5 (48:25):
Love you, Love you too.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
And that's all we have today. Thank you for listening.
I'm Anya Packer.
Speaker 5 (48:33):
And I'm Madison Packer and this is These packs Puck.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
These pax Puck is a production of Iheartwomen's Sports in
Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 4 (48:45):
It's hosted by us Madison and Anya Packer. Emily Meronoff
is our awesome senior producer and story editor.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
We were mixed and mastered by Mary do.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Our executive producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz, and Ali
Perry
Speaker 4 (49:01):
Stand Stop
Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm a recently retired pro hockey vet, a founding member
of the National Women's Hockey League, a pillar in the PHF,
and an inaugural member of the PWHL Sirens.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
And I'm Anypacker, also a former pro hockey player, also
founding member of the National Women's Hockey League. But today
I'm a full Madison Packer. Stand.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Anya and I met through hockey, then we got married,
and now we're moms to.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Two awesome toddlers, ages two and four.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
And on our new podcast, These Packs Puck, we're opening
up about the chaos of our daily lives, between the
juggle of being athletes, raising children and all the messiness
in between.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Hey, Packy, how's it going.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
What's going on with you?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
We're down in Florida. Still just got back from New York.
We've been here, there, and everywhere.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Why were you in New York? Before we get into it.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
I was at the espnW summit talking about Hey in.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Sport, let's go mama.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It was fun.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah. Well, now you're back and we have a hockey
hot take that we simply must get into because we
are officially in the world of playoffs.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hockey hot take. I can't believe the way everything occurred
towards the end of season. So tail end of season,
I'll give you context. Tail end of season. New York
is out, there's no question, and there's this like crazy
clinching scenario. So New York is playing Montreal, so they're out,
and Montreal and Toronto are fighting for first place. If
(01:32):
Montreal beats New York in regulation, they clinch, they are
first place. Period that scenario one. The only scenario where
there would be a different first place is if Toronto
beat Ottawa in regulation and Montreal lost to New York.
Likelihood of that happening was a little bit lower, but
that was in regulation, So that was the setup for
(01:55):
first place. Then betwixt the other three all fighting first,
Ottawa needed a point off Toronto to get even into
the conversation.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Boston had been in for most of the season. However,
the only way that Boston was out is if they
lost to Minnesota and Ottawa won. So Boston Ottawa in
the first tie breaking scenario was games in regulation meaning
regular play sixty minutes.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Ottawa came alive at the end.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
They actually had the most so when it came down
to a tie breaking situation, Ottawa was going to win
that tie break.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
That's what it was. In the end.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
It was interesting though, because everyone had the ability to
control their own fate.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Correct Boston needed one point to solidify themselves. Had they
gotten just one point off of Minnesota, it wouldn't have
been a question. No clinching scenarios would take place. Now,
paint the picture. You're in Boston, you're on home ice,
you have a healthy team, your goalies back, your goalies
back back after a long break, but back nonetheless. And
(02:57):
the first period, second period, your midway through the third period,
and it is seven to nothing. This is Minnesota firing
on all cylinders. Like you said, they're hungry, they want
to win. They're gonna put the puck in the back
of the net. First period, they're three goals down. It's
three to nothing, no changes. Second period, two more goals,
five goals heading into the beginning of the third period,
(03:18):
and you think to yourself, it's not a hill too
high to climb, so these things are possible. But they
just couldn't string it together. And in the final like
five minutes of the game, just to Geralimo scores and
the police goes ballistic because this is the last goal
they see from their twenty four to twenty five season
for Boston on the ice. They cannot come back from that.
(03:38):
So this whole playoff scenario goes out and Montreal, Toronto,
Minnesota Ottawa is the ranking. So there's two teams that
are out now, New York being again second year in
a row not making playoffs, brutal for the New York market.
All that to say, who you picking for playoffs?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
I mean, I think the best team is Montreal, but
I think it's interest. I mean, obviously there's there's so
much that goes into picking your opponent.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Right, they picked Ottawa. I wouldn't have picked Autawa.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I wouldn't have either. Wait, I'm dead that you just
said that, because they saw I watched that pick on
Jocks and Jill's and I thought to myself.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
That team's coming alive and we were really critical. So
I take it back. I think that Hirshfield did a
good job. He stuck to his guns. We were like,
you're crazy, buddy, Like it's and the team just found
away at the end. I will say, though, and I've
said this from day one. I love Carl McCloud as
a coach. I think that she is the kind of
coach that that fires you up to go through a
wall for her.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I think she inspires her players.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
I think no matter what your role is, I mean
you look look at a player like Shian dark Angelo,
who has been up down, here, there, and everywhere. She's
found a really solid spot on that second line. She's
earned it, She's worked her ass off every day to
get into that position. Just hell of a hockey player.
But I think that she's just she's taken time to
understand her team, and the whole staff has taken time
to really put it together and be patient with it.
(04:52):
And to their credit, they they figured out a way
down the stretch to win. And that's just that's a
team that looks like they really love each other, right,
and they've got good players Emily Brian Jenner, Darkangelo, I'm
missing a bunch.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
There's tons of on that team.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Yeah, nish, but they also it's just a group of
players that you can tell everyone from the top down
is inspired by their role.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Well, I was gonna say, it's also not a group
of players that show up in the top twenty five.
You know, top point getters, right, like one or two
Emily Clark Venisiva like those are their scorers, right. But
for the most part, it's a team that contributes on
all levels. And we talk about this all the time.
A team that has parody so Daknet, dude, soir Dakney's insane.
But like a team that has parody across scoring, that
(05:33):
can score on all three four lines is so dangerous
because Montreal heavily relies on their top line and if
you can get somebody that can pump in a third
line goal, that's a dicey pick.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I think it's gonna be Montreal or Toronto, but I
think that I wouldn't be surprised if Montreal was stunned
by Autawa.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I want to see a Toronto Autawa final, with Toronto
winning at the final game, like right, I want best
story and I want that. I want that rag stor
which is like first four weeks in last place to
winning for Toronto.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
The best thing for the league would be to have
a Canadian and American team. I don't but I don't
think that Minnesota's I think that Minnesota.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I think that can happen too.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
I think that the other teams are in a different
class than Minnesota right now. Minnesota did what they need
to do at the end of the year. But the
hardest thing to do is end the team's season, right.
They exploded at the end. Now everyone's playing playoff hockey
and it's best three out of five.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It's the best team is going to win.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Well, we shall see, and we shall continue to keep
our eye on it. I think this episode will have
aired when some of the games have already played, so
we'll see if prior us we're right about future happenings.
But let's do a little check in.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
How you doing.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Give me a number one to one hundred.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
I'm gonna be real for our listeners and all my
stay at home moms out there. I'm like A twenty
seven because we are getting ready to go back to
Connecticut and I just found out that we don't really
have childcare and Mama Anya also known as Tanya when
I'm mad at her, is traveling a lot and it
(07:10):
is daunting. So I'm hanging out at A twenty seven today.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
I'm sorry for that. The situation with the babysitter is
quite frustrating. I will say I don't feel great either.
To be fair, I don't know what's happening. Last night
we were watching TV in bed, and I am getting
old because I literally leaned over to grab some water
and I threw my whole back out alignment. And now
I'm in so much pain. I'm literally sitting on a donut.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
So I am maybe you should spend less time on airplanes.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Okay, so excited for this check in?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
This chicken is Well, what's your number? I'm a twenty seven.
You better find a way to come up with a
seventy three woman.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I don't think i'm there today. I think we're going
to leverage a little Disney Plus to boost up the numbers.
I think I'm at like a forty. I don't feel good,
and so then I wasn't able to go to the
gym at all.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Buckle up because we're going out to dinner tonight and
we already find sixty seven.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yeah, we're not. We're not in our best case scenario.
I promise you that. But that's okay. My parents will
be there. My mom's probably exhausted because she's had baby Sean,
which is my brother's son. But I'm very excited because
we just wrapped Mother's Day and we get to head
into a conversation with my favorite person, which is my mom.
(08:27):
I'm really excited to have my mom on the pod.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Love us a good lowload chat, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Good Lola. Chat's always really nice. And my Mom's been
through it all, and I think, you know, I always
look to her for advice. I always call her when
I need to vent. She lovingly reminds me that she
didn't have Google and I could just google it, so
I should stop complaining. But I love my mom and
I think it's so fun that we were able to
have a conversation with her, pick her brain, ask some questions.
So without further ado, you guys get to meet the
(08:52):
person that made me so Buckle up, listeners. I am
(09:13):
incredibly excited because today we have quite literally my favorite guest.
Without her, I would not be here, And you think
who could That inspiring individual's physically actually my mom. So Mom,
welcome to the pod.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Tell the listeners, we'll call you one hundred names today.
I will lovingly call you Mom, but we also call
you lolo. Who are you in our world? And also
tell everybody who else is in our family? Maybe give
us a little background.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Okay, Well, I'm the mother to two great children. One
you know very well, it's Anya. The other you've not
met her older brother John, who Anya her whole life
has tried to chase down and become better than one.
Failing there, failing, Okay again, not going to pick a
favorite child.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
There you go.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
And I'm married to my husband of thirty something many years,
so it's small family dynamic. Both of our kids are
married with great grand with grandchildren and then a wonderful
additions to our family. I come from a tight Armenian
family with one brother, and we're all still very close.
And I'm blessed enough to say my parents are still alive.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yes, we have the whole crew, Papa, Gig and Gigi Aya,
and Mom goes by Lolo for the kids. So we
have Lauri Mom. Yeah, Maddie calls her Lolo.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
And to set up the scene growing up, my mom,
right when I was really little, was divorced, and then
my stepdad came into our lives, and my whole life
has been Dad. But let's go before all that. Mom,
you were raised in an Armenian Apostolic family one hundred
percent Armenian. Did sports play a role in your life
kind of like what was growing up in that household
(11:02):
and then what was growing up in high school and
in et cetera with sports? What was your connection to it?
Speaker 5 (11:06):
Well, sports for at my age was a little more limited.
The sports that we could do were more like track
are swimming, and not necessarily organized team sports where the
school funded a team. So I was would have been
the best outfielder in the high school for sure, because
all I did was shag balls that my brother played
to me in the outfield. But I was a big swimmer,
(11:28):
so being from an Armenian household, we had the thing
on Labor Day every year called the Armenian Olympics, and
it traveled across the country and I always was on
their swim team. I butterfly breaststroke in freestyle, so I
still love to swim, So sports was important. We always
watched sports, but I didn't play sports in an organized
(11:48):
fashion like you guys were able to do. I wish
I could have. I think I really would have enjoyed it.
But a little bit of basketball, a little bit more softball,
and then was a.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Swimmer tough life, low though.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
No sports, no no way to get to my frustration.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
No sports for girls. I want to back up for
a second. Two things. One Armenians.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
I like to think about myself as being well educated.
I didn't know what or where Armenia was until I
met Anya. Two, knew nothing of the Armenian genocide. Three
the food is phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Well that's that Middle Eastern diet that everyone's finally getting
jumping on board now so that they can live to
be one hundred years old. My grandparents all lived well
into their nineties.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
So we've gone through Lolo's childhood. I want to dive
into Anya's childhood.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
All right, eh, oh gosh, okay, i'll edit it.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Oh well, we're raising Harlan, so they usually say what
you give is what you get.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Time too, growing up? Who is Anya? How was she?
Who was she? What's that look like? And don't be nice, Lolo.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
I won't be nice, But as I tell my children, beest,
I'm not a liar. This is just how I remember it.
She was perpetual motion from the minute she was born.
One of my the funniest memories have was remember Dad
used to have to go buy her bathing suits, and
one day she came down stairs. Were at dinner, and
she proceeded to model like seven bathing what kid needs
seven bathing suits? And one time, no idea, she would
(13:20):
come down and model the bathing suits and then put
on a dance party. She was just literal, perpetual motion
from the time she could walk, which was at I
think you started walking at like eleven months.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
It was.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
Achiever under achiever, yeah, but very kind like she was
like always concerned and curious, but kind to other kids.
So she was She was easy to have as a
kid for the most.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Part, except they didn't sleep.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Other than she didn't sleep, but then she grew up.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I didn't sleep when I grew up either, to be fair.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
No, she would literally go up to stairs at you
at eight o'clock, I mean in eighth grade, at like
eleven o'clock to start her homework. Meanwhile, I was already
asleep in the room next door, and she'd be slamming
around her bedroom and I'd have to get out of
bed and yell at her, and well that's top. But
she got up and popped up at six o'clock in
the morning to go to school. Not a problem.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
So I don't need to sleep. I don't think I'm
a sleeper.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Well I am, and you are loud.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
It's a lot to kind of like wrangle in and focus.
So when did you kind of get that concept that
you could wrangle it in and focus it on one thing?
Because I very much remember my first time on the ice,
but from your vantage pointer for maybe you and Dad, like,
what was that? Like, how did you guys see me
take all of that crazy energy? And then I think
I was four? How did I put that into that?
Speaker 5 (14:36):
No, so you were actually two, John was in mites
and you caver achiever. No. So while she she was
going to be three soon, and she said to her
father can I skate? And he said sure, So we
got her skates and he gave her the milk cartons
and she went twice across the ice and she said,
do I have to use these? And he said, well no,
thinking she's going to fall on her face, and she
(14:58):
just took off. But it was perf because it burnt
a lot of energy. So skating for her, like we
got around the ice as much as we possibly could,
because she came home at least a little tired and
a little worn down. But she went from either the
dance studio do you remember that on it to the
hockey rink and the boys because she played with all
boys would say no, Tutu's in the locker room and
(15:21):
she'd get so mad. But yeah, she started very young.
And then I think we got you on your first
team before we fibbed about your age, but they didn't
know because you skated so well.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, November birthday was tough, and then also kind of
like we talked about being Armenion a little bit in that,
but also throughout all of that, we also had church
on Sunday. And church in our house isn't just church, right,
It's Sunday schools, it's the extra it's going down to
the kitchen and cooking, it's coming together after church. So
that takes a lot of regiment and structure to make
(15:55):
sure that that's still happening while you're also raising somebody
who's really focused on sports, who's really not focused on
a bunch of other things. Think there was always kind
of this push and pull with me where I was
either dancing or on skates or at the church, and
that was really like my two kind of vibes when
I was growing up, So you know, how did you
balance that because there's a lot of times where we
(16:15):
had to not go do things because we had church,
or not go to church and then deal with that
kind of guilt. You know, maybe different in other cultures,
but like kind of grapple with that duplicitousness.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
Right, Well, that sort of goes back to the two kids,
two parents. When you're out numbered, it's a little harder,
a lot of divide and concer depending on who what
was important to the adult, Right Like if Dad hadn't
seen you skate in a while, he would go. I
always had the church duty because obviously that was the
most important to me, so I would get you to
Sunday school. But the other thing was your brother is
(16:48):
four years older than you, so your stuff didn't conflict
as much time wise, like when you were in the
early morning, he was late night or midday. So it
wasn't as hard as what I thought it would be.
But it was just years of doing nothing but driving
you guys everywhere you needed to go and doing everything
that you needed to do, and then figuring out which
(17:09):
one was the priority over the other at any given
conflicting time.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
But in all seriousness, was that hard easy.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
I mean, it's all you knew in the moment. Right
when you look back at you're like, how the heck
did I do all that? But when you were doing it,
it was what you did because you do anything for
your kids. If someone told me now at sixty one,
i'd have to do it, I couldn't do it right, Like,
my energy level at thirty five was way better than
my energy at my age. Now. Hence when your kids
(17:39):
won't go to bed and I'm like, can I please
go to bed? It's ten o'clock.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I'm going to close that door and bolt it shut,
thank you.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
But no, it was love. We loved every minute of it.
It's what we did. It became our social life. It
became our you know, like catch meals together as a family.
That's how you did it. Was like, you know, i'd say,
on you, okay, John has game, we got to go,
or John on has a game, you got to go
because we're going to go to dinner because we haven't
had dinner together as a family and you know, three
days and that's just not acceptable. So we made it
(18:09):
be part of the structure of what we did to
get everybody what they needed, but still remain a really
close family.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I think that was part of my childhood that I
remember so much, is that we just had this like
impenetrable closeness. And I think that comes with you were
from a family of four. Then we had a family
like four total people, not four kids. Like we just
kind of moved like a square. There was always that
line of connection, and I always really appreciated how much
you guys valued that because not to bury the lead,
(18:37):
but you also started a three location small business and
ran that completely unilaterally. You know, you own storefronts. You
built this thing from nothing in the party good space,
and we all kind of like leaned into it, right.
It was like the big joke. But like I would
figure out how many things I had to price so
that the pricing tail was a certain length so that
(18:58):
I could have a free candy, you know, and later
in life, I'm like, you could have just taken that candy.
It maybe cost you two cents, mom, But it's fun
how much hard work I had to learn? So how
much did you intentionally push on me? And how much
did I just do automatically in that work hard? Because
I think that's like the core of my life and
why I have and have achieved all the things that
(19:19):
I have.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
I think it was you learned it mostly by example
more so than words.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Right.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
We didn't ever say you had to do this, but
you saw Dad working a job and then being a
city councilor you saw me running my own business multiple stores.
You came in and work. You know, when someone would
call out sick, you came. You had no choice. Your
Friday and Saturday night were canceled because someone had to
come work. You know, if I'm in Wooburn and you
needed to be in Marlborough, you had to be there.
(19:46):
So yeah, I think you learned it primarily from that.
But then you guys got creative. Right when when you
got to call at high school, we said, you know,
we'll buy you car, but we're never putting gas in it.
Like you have to be. We know you're a three
sport athlete, but you have to do these things. And
that's when John started cleaning offices, and then from that
he would grow that and then when he went to college,
(20:09):
you took it over and you cleaned offices all through
high school. I always say, both of you guys college.
Same thing between the scholarship money and everything else. We
never gave you any spending money, but you didn't pay
a dime for college. But you worked. You both worked,
You bartended, you did whatever it took him. Both of
you graduated with more money in the bank than you
went to school with because you figured out a way
(20:29):
to hustle, to bartend if you had to work for
a catering company, or to sell back the textbooks that
you didn't read. The he knows what.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
You deal them from the scholarship athletes to sell them.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Yeah, all those things, but you always watched it in
the house, whether it was us or whether it was
Puppa and Aya and volunteering and being at the church.
I think that's a very strong Armenian trade, right. We
are entrepreneurial by spirit, and nothing has been given to us.
Your grandparents, you know, died for you to get to
live here. So we just dig in like there's not
(21:04):
anything that you can't do that someone that you're related
to didn't do something harder than.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
When you're the offshoot of a genocide survivor. It's pretty
hard to be like, mom, I really don't want to
go do this shift at trikon Sports because it's it's
been worse for someone else, just so that we'ld stupid. Yeah,
you got really nothing to say. We go through all this, right,
we'll go down a little bit of a kind of
through line of my life. We talk about it now
very openly, but in high school we didn't. And they
(21:30):
had a challenge, right, Like somebody wrote me a card
one time that said, like your whoopsie's out of whax.
So you're you're who's it called? And what's it? You know?
Is whatever? Like it was this big one car with
a bunch of like really funny words. But the end
of the day, I tried to take my own life.
I've never, until having kids, ever wrapped my mind around
what the perspective was like for you. And I think
(21:52):
it's something that is impossibly hard, and it's something that
we talk about all the time, and it's something that
you know, as a as a three sport athlete that
felt like, for whatever reason, I just couldn't. I couldn't
do it anymore. That's not lost on me how challenging
it was. Talk a little bit about how you've supported
your kids through some really dark times.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
So there's no roadmap for that, right, there's it's easier now.
I pray every night that you never understand what that
feels like. But it was not something that you talked about,
and there was not something you talked about with anyone
other than your immediate spouse, not even your your your
(22:33):
I guess my brother I talked to it about. But
your friends. You kept it all to yourself, which is
your generation is made major inroads. So yeah, there was
a lot of just being there and being present and
being there on those times when you felt excluded or
you didn't make a team like you just it was uncertainty.
I never knew what it was that was going to
(22:54):
get you there because I didn't understand it because I
didn't have those same similar issues personally, so I probably
was hyper sensitive to things that you probably could have
handled yourself. I tried to jump in and intercede on
where I didn't need to, So maybe that was how
I handled it. It was just about being there and
being present and showing up and not knowing the right
(23:16):
thing to do, but just knowing that something had to
be done and asking questions and talking to your counselors
or whatever it may be. But I think it also
showed up in the help that whether it was me
or Dad or John, that we again kind of rallied
around as a team and said, this person has a
weakness right now, how do we all fill the gap
to support them and build them up so that they
(23:38):
can then thrive like we are thriving. And I think
at any given time, in any given family, a different
person has a different weakness that you need to support.
So we were always there to sort of answer that
as a parent, it's the worst thing in the world
that you're going stup. It's not the worst, It's almost
the worst thing you could live through.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
So I want to stay here for a second, because
we were talking the other day. You have friends who
listen to the podcast. Shout out to them and we
did a mental health episode. They talk to their kids
about it, shared it with their kids. We talk about
we talk about this stuff. I think that most people
don't realize it's way more common that anyone wants to
(24:20):
talk about like you have. You have two very high functioning,
high performing children who have struggled severely with their mental health,
and now look at what they've done. So isn't it
an incredible when we have the attention and the resource
and the things that we need in the understanding to
like pivot, step, help whatever, and then what that can
(24:42):
turn into versus this thing's horrible. We're not going to
talk about it, like no one wants to talk about it.
But I think that's a huge part of it. And
I think that's a huge part of the story. Like
mental health is a real thing. Mental illness is a
real thing. And the more or that we can draw
attention to the stories of people who have struggled with it,
(25:04):
either severely or not, but then look what they've gone
to do, it's hugely important.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Right.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
Yeah. The mother that two people talked about it and
one person listens to the podcast herself as an adult.
She's a peer of mine, and she listens to it.
And she has a daughter that's actually gonna be going
to Division one in sports when she goes to college.
But she said to me, I've never talked to my
girls about this, but this opened the door to allow
me to talk to them about it. And I don't
(25:33):
know if they're feeling this because we don't talk about it.
So I made them both listen to it, and then
we had real healthy conversation around it. They both said
to me, you know, there are sadnesses. There are I have,
you know, times where I don't feel myself, but it's
never this extreme, mom. But that's, you know, was very
enlightening and I'm glad I listened to it. I had
(25:54):
another mother who said something to me. She said, I
listened to it. I thought it was great. I send
it to my friend to Germany has a daughter who
now feels very isolated because they had to go there
for work. And she said, I think it's going to
be very helpful for her to talk to her daughter
because her daughter feels so isolated alone. And my fear
is that these could be thoughts that she's happening. So yeah,
(26:14):
I mean, what you girls do, being this raw on
some of these very serious topics will save lives. And
that's no joke. That's if nothing else comes out of
this podcast and you never make a dime, it doesn't matter.
You've saved lives. That's what matters.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
First of all, great take lolo.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Secondly, I was going to rebuttal and thank you because
it's true the saying that people tell you all the
time you'll never love the way that you love a kid,
and you don't understand it until you're a parent, Like
I love my wife to pieces, but I love my
kids in a way that I can't even describe, right, Yeah,
(26:54):
And so I want to thank you for coming here
and talking with us about this, because I can't imagine
talking about that what you went through with your own kids.
And I appreciate you for it because it's important and
way more people go through it than are willing to
talk about and we should.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Talk about it.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Yeah, And I think, like you know to that we've
had a couple of tough conversations and we'll get into
another one of my all time favorites, but we always
find a way to move through it with understanding and love.
And I actually think a lot of that comes from
my dad, which you know, he'll he'll never go to
bed angry, which is almost annoying because you're like, I
don't actually want to talk until three o'clock in the morning,
but he can't sleep unless you kind of like hash
(27:36):
the problem. So we just hash it. That's like what
our family does, and we could find ourselves at a
table until two o'clock in the morning hashing it. I've
always really appreciated that, and I've always really appreciated the
safety that that creates in my own home. You know,
I just can never really remember our family ever like
fighting or yelling, but I can't remember us like really
(27:56):
talking through things. And you know, a short departure is
when I would, you know, ask my mom something. I
would say, Mom, I want to stay out. Everyone gets
to stay out till eleven. And my mom would say, well,
you stay out till ten. And I would say, well,
well for these reasons, you know, and we'd kind of
have this debate. My mom would say, it's not a
dictator it's not a democracy. It's a dictatorship. So you
can make your voice be heard, but at the end
(28:17):
of the day, I'll make a decision for the family,
and I wind. Yeah, sometimes I win, like sometimes I
got a good point. Most of the times I did not.
And then there was this one time I was a
senior and the only time I was allowed to leave
after ten is if somebody was drunken and they were
gonna otherwise drive, I could go pick them up and
drop them off and come home. But this one time
I said to my mom, like, Mom, for real, I'm
(28:37):
staying out and she said, great. At ten oh one,
the resource of me is cut off, so if something
is to occur, you're on your own. So at ten
oh two, at probably a house party, I go, I
gotta go, I gotta go. What is the cabins? I
can't call my mom like what I did. She would
(28:59):
have been like she would have helped, but I was like,
I gotta go home. My mom's not gonna answer the phone.
I appreciate you hard, like putting the line in the sand,
and also like what happened when it's eleven? Though just
f y, okay, maybe it was eleven? What happened when
we lied? What was the what was the fable around
the lie?
Speaker 5 (29:18):
Stick out your tongue and she would they'd stick out
their tongue. I go, you're lying. I don't know what
they thought I saw in their tongue.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
But Anya told me, will you get with the kids?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yeah, we are you lying? Because you tell the confidence
in which they stick the tongue out when they're lying,
and when they are when they're telling the truth, it's
a it's a long tongue out, and when it's a
short one, it's like a complete lie. They just go
quickly It's like, that is a lie.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
Being a parent is tricky.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Being a parent is all about telling the right lies
at the right time. I think another kind of tough moment.
(30:06):
I come home from college and I said to Dad
in the car. I go, Dad, I think I like
girls and my dad if you've met him, to all
those that have shout out. He goes, oh, yeah, I
like girls too.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
That's no, we have something in common.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Yeah, he goes, we have something in common. I'm a
lesbian too. I was like, well, I didn't say lesbian, dude,
calm down. So I'm stressed and I go, I don't
know how to tell mom, and he goes, well, we're
gonna sit down, we'll have dinner, and we'll talk about it.
We just gone through. What you said is like the
second hardest thing a parent will ever deal with, short
of losing their child. And then I come home and
(30:41):
come out. We have this conversation at the dinner table
and it was tough. So bring us through your thought
process there, because I remember so many foundational things that
you said on that day or kind of as we
resolved that and came back together. But what's that like
as a parent, And you know, the generations are different now.
I think it's from conversation today than it was thirty
(31:01):
years ago. But I came out, you know, I was
twenty one. I was twenty you know it was thirteen
years ago.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
Right, Yeah, I mean it's so it's hard now to
put the same words to it because I know that's
all I know you as, and I love your life,
and I love your kids, and I know it's all
fine and safe. But I would say, first of all,
I was shocked, So there was that, and then I
just was like the process I went through. Listen, it's
not my finest moment because I actually had a process.
(31:31):
It was never that I didn't love you immediately, it
was just the whole How am I going to feel
when someone doesn't accept her because she makes a decision
that is not mainstream? How can I support and protect
her from any pain that's going to come from who
she is as a person, not the decision she makes.
It's not a decision, it's who you are, right, But
(31:52):
people see it as that, So it was more coming
from that. I mean, I think there was the part
of the oh, well is there not going to be
a big, fancy wedding, Well, we we knew that that happened.
It was bigger and fancier, But yeah, it was more
about how was I going to protect you from how
mean they were going to be? And it was probably
(32:13):
the people coming more from my generation, which in fact
are fine, but you don't know because you just didn't
know that, And that's that's where it came from. The
concern was how am I going to protect her? How
am I going to teach her and answer questions because
I won't have similar situations, right, Like I could always
guide you as a spouse of a man, like I
(32:34):
could give you how I wet with that. It's different.
I'm sure you and Mathis have different levels of conversations
and different kinds of difficulties that I don't have because
I'm married to a man and I can just fight
over jeans.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
And so you and dead wore the same genes my.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
Shoot exactly, So that's sort of where it was coming from.
And then it was just about, like, I want everyone
to love and accept my child the way I unconditionally
love and accept my child, and is this going to
make them not do it? And then do I have
to start drawing lines in my sand for who I
will and will not keep in my orbit because that
(33:09):
was never going to be an option. If they don't
accept you, I'm conditionally, then I have no place for you.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Yeah, I mean I think a big part of that
in a moment where it kind of made sense to
me where you were coming from. Because naturally, when you're
a person that comes with this vulnerability and kind of
share something and it's not immediately met with love and support,
you feel excluded and that really really hurts. And when
it comes from your mom, who's just trying to figure
it out again, like hindsight, being twenty twenty is not
(33:36):
who I was when I was twenty one telling you
my deepest, darkest secrets. Right, But but there has to
be a level of mourning and you have to kind
of go through that because you thought my life to
be one thing and now it's you know, all the
same things, except it's Madison and not Matthew, right, Like
there's a little difference. I remember this one comment you made,
and you have a best friend, Auntie Maya, and she's
been in your life forever. You know, you were former
(33:58):
neighbors and now you're just like lifelong best friends. And
you said, I could do everything with Auntie Maya. I
love her so much. I can't get to that, you know,
other side of the fence where like I'm in love
with her in that way, but I fully get it.
And I think that was the closest point where I
was like, oh, okay, we're gonna be fine, Like we're
(34:19):
gonna we're gonna navigate this eventually. You know, there's there's
obviously like there's there's a difference and and like we
have to become okay with that. But I remember really
clearly when you said.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
That that was what made the impact.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
That's where I felt like we could draw that line.
I think that that was always something that I appreciated
and I'm sure wasn't easy because to your point, like
you're now trying to figure out if you have to
take these snippers out and remove people from your circle
that maybe don't think that way, And it's much different,
like I said a couple of years ago, even in
feeling comfortable to start being like, yo, this is it
(34:53):
is what it is, like it's okay.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
Yeah, And and truthfully, you had had long term boyfriends
all through high school and it wasn't like you had
no boyfriend right like that would have been. I just
was just caught off guard.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Yeah, well, speaking of some exes.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Long term boyfriends, let's here at lolo.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
No, no, not doing it. I can't kiss and tell
thank you mom.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
You know what I was gonna say, that's a woman
for women. Yeah she is. She's the best. Speaking of boyfriends,
which has nothing to do with anything. I spent a
whole long part of my life playing hockey, and I
think a big piece of that for me and growing
up was was your involvement. And maybe you weren't the
you know, consumate hockey player that was teaching me every
(35:38):
single time, but you joined the board, you got really involved,
You introduced me to the right people, You supported me endlessly,
even though sometimes it was crying because I wasn't the
captain of my high school hockey team. Why did you
do all those things? And was it because you thought
one day I would get there or because you just
were doing the next best thing to support your kid
(35:59):
and something that they loved to do. Because I know
it's expensive. I know it was a lot of like
burden on our family to have all these hockey players
and to deal with all this kind of extra stuff
but kind of talk about what you did at Waltham
Youth Hockey and then why and how you enabled me
throughout the rest of it all.
Speaker 5 (36:14):
So all of it was new to us, right, Dad
played hockey going up to high school, and then his
high school didn't have a hockey team, so we switched
to basketball. So I had no exposure my family. My
brother played basketball, so I needed to understand it. So
that's sort of when I got on the board to
just understand more of it. I initially probably supported you
because you loved it, and then I saw something. I mean,
(36:35):
you hang around enough places and enough rinks and watch
enough skills and tryouts and everything else, and I'm like, Okay,
this kid is better than all the rest, and I
need to now support this because there's more potential here.
If she doesn't want to do it, we'll stop. But
if she wants to go travel to Connecticut and travel
to New York and travel to New Jersey and go
(36:57):
up to Lake Placid or wherever she wants to go,
oh we're going to go. Because she's good enough to
do all of that, and exposing you to all those
things made you even better. But it was the drive
the minute we saw how much interest you had in it,
we had to support it, right, Like if you were
I don't want to go to hockey, like you were
just like, what do you mean there's no hockey today.
(37:19):
We're like, well, it's it's an off day. Wednesdays. There's
no hockey. Every other day of the week there's hockey.
I hate Wednesdays. I'm like, okay, well it's Wednesday. So
that's why we did it, right. We did it because
the passion that you showed, and like I said, that's
what we did as a family. If you had shown
a passion for something else, that would have been the support.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Well, speaking of Lolo, yeah, Anya did show a passion
for something else.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Break dancing.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
The fans need to hear about the World Champion Hip hop.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
Yeah, funny do this.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
I didn't know that until after we were married, which
is like demorializing.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
I think I have the trophy something.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
We took eleven weeks of dance classes.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Stinks.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
You're as imagine imagine finding out on your honeymoon when
you're like so pumped and you're like watching the video back, Okay,
world sounds better.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
We're gonna go all right.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
We literally not until we're on our on our honeymoon,
and I'm so I'm watching the video. I'm like, babe,
look and I'm like, she never practiced, and she's like, well,
like I was.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
I was a pretty good dancer in high school. Eleven weeks.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
She was pre twerking too, with that fanny yeah big,
but yep, no, that's why I said the Armenians full circle,
full circle. The ass is a full circle too. But
that was when they used to say no, no, uh
no to tubes. In the things. She would go. You
(38:58):
would dance three days a week and skate five or
six or whatever the hell, I don't know what it was.
Those are the two things that we did until we
made you. Some coach told you how to do something else,
and then so you took up track for two years.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
That was.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Do you remember that. I do remember that.
Speaker 5 (39:13):
It was and I hate running. Wait, I hate running,
So I'm like, what are you gonna do? Because I
gotta throw the shot put, the javelin and the discuss.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, I just threw everything.
Speaker 5 (39:21):
She was also captain of the debate team and captain
of the athletes because a spotlight hog, because she was
never home enough to be with the in crowd, right, like.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
I was, uh.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
Yeah, she no, not a loser.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
I did a lot, and I think I think I
did so much. I'm ignoring everything you're saying because I actually, yeah, here,
I was not in on the in crowd, but they
had different they cared about different things.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Your own crowd.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
I had my own crowd. I had the hockey crowd.
And then when the hockey crowd was, you know, trying
to go to parties and drink and kiss boys, I
was like, I don't really want to do that either,
so I chose something else to do. And then I
always chose something else to do. And when I was younger,
I remember in high school, you know, I wanted to
train at the specific gym and it was wicked expensive,
(40:14):
and my mom was like, you'll find a way, but
we can't swing it, basically like make it happen. And
so I went to the gym owners and I said,
I'm going to train on this two day week program,
and then i want two other days of programming, and
I'll clean the gym when I do my own programming,
and I'll come I'll wipe down the dumbells, I'll vacuum
up the floors, I'll put everything back where it belongs.
And Mom, how long was I? I was at that
(40:35):
gym until like eleven thirty on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, and
then I would train on Mondays and Fridays, and because
Wednesdays was my day off, and so I hated Wednesdays.
But I did that for like, I think all four years,
and they put out when I was there, probably something
like twenty thirty Division one athletes. It was good. It
(40:56):
was a good crew to be around, to be fair,
it always made me want it more though, which my
mom was always saying, like if I had to buy
my own cell phone, I wouldn't lose it, and she
was right, Like I got my cell phone stolen out
of my locker in high school and I called my
mom crying. Not on my own cell phone. Yeah, yeah,
not on my own cell phone, but I called her crying.
And I think the biggest thing that she always taught
(41:16):
me was like, if you use your own money, you'll
care a lot more. And I think that was like
the driver of my whole hockey career, right. It was
like working at Trikon Sports and getting the call that
I was going to be a recruited walk on it BEU.
I mean I stood in that rack and cried for hours.
I was so excited.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:36):
I think the other part is you are a person
that when you go back and you spoke to those coaches,
you made one of the lines that I repeat the
most that you've said is be the kind of coach
that a person wants to play for, not because of,
and like to prove a man.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
And that's a lot of proved people wrong. Yeah, well
I was mad.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Amen. All right, so lo low mm hmm. You watched
Anya's whole career.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
We get married means the best person ever, second best,
she's the best. She becomes a mom. Talk about watching
Anya become a mom. In my opinion, no offense, you're
the second best. Anya is the best mom on the planet.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
So it's super interesting because her brother just put something
up on his Facebook page. It said, figure out your
why and you'll how is so much easier. But you're
my double why. He Whalen became my double why. Right, Like,
whatever you guys feel for Whalan wait till you're Whalen
(42:39):
has kids. It's times too, but it's fun watching you
both be mothers. But yeah, it's especially fun watching your
own kid, be a mother, because sometimes I'm like, it's
looking in a mirror, which is a little scary because
she says stuff to them. I'm like, oh, I think
I might have said that too. But for the most part,
(43:00):
it's like joy, just pure joy.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
I think the other thing in that too, is coming
to you with my now feels like more important questions.
But like I call you all the time, and that
would be like, you know, my roommate did something that
was annoying to me. I'd call you and you'd be like, yeah,
it is what it is. Relax, I calm down. And
now I'll call you when something about the kids and
(43:26):
you just laugh, which is not helpful, by the way.
I'll call you and I'll be like, Waylan's done this, this, this, this,
and this, and I don't know what to do and
there's poop all over my shirt and you just do that,
you just laugh. And I think that that's like that's
the full circle moment.
Speaker 5 (43:39):
Because you're looking for an answer, right or I'm not
supposed to. I'm not supposed to give you an answer.
It's your child, your mistakes to make, or or or wins.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
To have to clarify. I I call asking for an answer.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
Okay, I I think you know me long.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
Enough, like the in the trenches. Anya's not answering, she's
at a conference.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
So what do I do?
Speaker 5 (44:01):
I mean, you know me now long enough to know
that I guide you, but I don't give you answers
most of the time. I just point you in the
right direction, because it's your mistakes to make or your
wins to have, Like not, I did this already. I've
already been. I've already I've already made all those mistakes.
Hence there's Anya, there's my mistake, like I anything I've
done wrong, You're right, I use I used to always
(44:22):
say to her, I'm sorry, I'll pay for your therapy later.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Because I know I'm putting you on the couch with
this one. And it took me like a while to
figure it out.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
Yeah, so I continue to be here to bring the
humor Lolo, Okay, And I want to know you can
either pick one joint or two solo. But I want
favorite story from Lolo about Maddie and Anya's parents.
Speaker 5 (44:47):
My favorite story about us parents.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, what's your favorite us parent story?
Speaker 5 (44:51):
I think my favorite is not a single moment, but
it's more a process that I watch, like it's frustrating
having two under two, right, I mean two years apart
and watching you like sort of do the dance of
tapping one out when one other is tired and like
ready to lose your patients. And you guys are very
good at figuring out what the dance looks like to
(45:13):
tap the person out when the other person needs support. So, like,
as a parent, that's a proud moment to watch because listen,
I have I have two bio kids. I have two
kids that I didn't give birth to in you and Meg,
and I love you the same and I support you
the same, and I think that watching you both cooperatively
(45:33):
work like that is probably my favorite part of watching
you be parents.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
So what you're saying is you're glad.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yes, I'm glad, unless out there.
Speaker 5 (45:49):
Unless, of course, you were an Armenian boy, because they
would have paid for the wedding.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we always. We always end our episodes
with the same ques. What is the parenting advice that
is the most foundational to you or what parenting advice
did you wish you heard that no one ever shared
with you when you were starting your journey as a parent.
That you want to share with the listeners.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
I've recently heard something that I thought was really good,
which I wish. Someone said, being a parent is hard
only if you're a good parent.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
I love that quote.
Speaker 5 (46:22):
Yeah, well, it's harder to say no, it's harder to
put boundaries, it's harder to set guidelines, all those things
they like punishing a kid, right, Like if you ground someone,
that means you're stuck at home with them too, right.
But those are those are the hard parts. If you're
not being a good parent, you let all that slide
and you just do live your life. So I think
(46:44):
that was the one thing that no one ever said
to me, But I think I learned, and I want
to say to any parent that's listening, being a good
parent is hard. It's hard work, and it's the best,
most rewarding work you'll get.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
I love that. When you're at your wits end and
you're really really tired and you really can't do it anymore,
and you have these two little kids and they rely
on you for everything and you're just like totally spent
to the bone, you have to remember that you feel
that way because you care so much. Like there are
parents that definitely exist in the world that maybe don't
(47:17):
have that level of attention and detail, and that's not
a knock on them, it's just a different thing, right, Like,
so when you're at the bitter end of your rope,
you have to remember that you're there because you care
so much about every single knot that got you to
the end of it. So I love that. Thank you
for sharing that, and thank you for spending time with us.
I know we talked about some things that are pretty tough,
(47:39):
and it's always hard when you have to talk about
things that aren't your proudest or could be your darker days.
But to your point, that's how we all upskill and
get better. And naturally, we could have had this whole
conversation with a bunch of really silly stories about when
John covered his whole body and baby powder, or when
he told me that you guys didn't love me anymore
and then he said right, mom, and you said yeah, obviously, honey,
(48:00):
and he didn't give you the context of what was said,
and like, there's all these crazy, ridiculous stories that happen
in our family and it was always founded in love.
But thank you for joining us on these packs. Puck
and we love you lolo. All right, Well, everybody join
us next week when we talk about literally anything else
(48:21):
versus all of my childhood. Thank you, mommy, I.
Speaker 5 (48:25):
Love you, Love you too.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
And that's all we have today. Thank you for listening.
I'm Anya Packer.
Speaker 5 (48:33):
And I'm Madison Packer and this is These packs Puck.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
These pax Puck is a production of Iheartwomen's Sports in
Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 4 (48:45):
It's hosted by us Madison and Anya Packer. Emily Meronoff
is our awesome senior producer and story editor.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
We were mixed and mastered by Mary do.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Our executive producers are Jennifer Bassett, Jesse Katz, and Ali
Perry
Speaker 4 (49:01):
Stand Stop
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