And, This Is Flooding The Zone With Truth Ft. Ben Meiselas of MeidasTouch

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He's strong, wrong, and fraud. I think the Democratic Party
just isn't saying I'm going to freaking fight for you.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's not about power, dominance and aggression. It's about empathy, compassion, collaboration.
Those are the superpowers.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
I don't wake up and go this is how I
make money, and I go this is life or death.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
So in today's podcast, I have someone very excited to
bring on the air, someone who's just lighting it up
with the pro democracy network he's built Midas Touch. Ben
and his two brothers took an idea pen to paper
in twenty twenty one, and they've built one of the
most important networks in the United States of America. I'm

(00:40):
looking forward to this free ranging conversation. We're going to
talk Trump, trump Ism, We're going to talk about the
government shutdown, but I also look forward to talking about Ben,
how Democrats can come out of the wilderness, how we
can get back on our feet, how we can move
away from being a party that's identified as weak to
a party that can once again assert ourselves. I'm much
more formally using our more authority and our formal authority,

(01:02):
and how we can take on Trump and trump Ism
and win the twenty twenty six congressional race. This is
Gavin Newsom and this is Ben mis Aules. Yeah, you're
in my studio now, I'm in yours student are inly
in my living room. I'm loving this you. And by

(01:23):
the way, I didn't know if you actually existed or
you're an avatar, some one of those AI things from
Sora whatever that Sam Altman put out.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
I used to exist, then I became an avatar.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Now but you like I actually I think you're there.
You're across from me, and uh you so you are
a human. Look at this, okay, just I want to
confirm we have the one, the one and only he.
By the way, he has the Midas touch. I can
confirm on the basis of our fist pop. It's good
right here, Ben Missalis, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Great to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
G for being here. Podcaster the year. Come on, you
got the Webby Award.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
I did get the Webby Award.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
That's a bit right. Tell me, don't act like humble,
but you're like, it's really not about the recognitions.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Not really. You know, some people grow up and become governors.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Others this a big deal, man, right, Robbie Awards.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
You know, I never expected that this was going to
even be a career path for me. I mean, I
was a litigator in Bakersfield, the current county frand I
lived at the Truxton Marriotte for years doing trials out.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
By the way, it's a better Marriotte than most Marriotts,
just like the Double Tree in Fresno is pretty damn
good double Tree.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Great Chicken Quesadia. Every night that I'd get there, can't
beat it. And through that my work evolved to representing
Colin Kaepernick in his case with the NFL. Represented him
there and I saw what it was like when the
force of large corporations and government at the time Trump
said get that son of a bitch off the field.

(02:48):
And in many ways, I feel we're all being kaepernicked today.
So right, So I represented him and then transitioned over COVID.
I felt like I had to do something. I wasn't
a political guy, figured I needed to do something, so
I just started talking about politics, not thinking is this
side or that side? Just I was scared. I was
nervous watching these press conferences taking place, and that evolved

(03:11):
into where I saw what was needed was a new
media network and then Midas Touch was kind of born
after January sixth, twenty twenty one, after the insurrection, We're like,
let's be a network.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
So twenty one, so I want to go back to
that because I mean, now it's not only do you
get the recognition that you've deserved over the course last
few years, because more and more people are familiar with
the network and the work you're doing. And you started
with your two other brothers.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Brett Jordi. We started this together. They weren't involved in
politics either. Brett was a digital editor at the Ellen Show.
Geordie did marketing for NBA and he did campaigns like that,
and Geordie's the youngest, eight year difference. Me and Brett
are five year difference. And we kind of pulled our
talents together and said, let's just get out something. And

(03:53):
so our very first video we did was called Trump
the Snake because you know, he tells that story about
you know, the snake and the woman who lets in
the snake and then oh, the snake ends up. So
we use that words and we said Trump is the
snake that America let in and he's harmed America. That
one took off got a million views. And then before
you knew it, we just started doing videos videos, videos.
But then I was like, if we're just showing our

(04:14):
videos on TV networks, we're basically renters and they're controlling
the narrative. And I said, that's a big problem. So
we've got to develop our own network. Because we started
to see then how they were both sides and the issues,
and it was clear to me that was the problem.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
So now you have and there's different ways of measuring it,
but I mean, you have more downloads than Joe Rogan experience.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, so on audio, more downloads than Rogan by like
a significant amount too. And then on the video side,
more views than Fox. So we do about on YouTube,
three hundred and fifty million views a month, three hundred
and seventy five million views on Facebook, and then across
the platforms, you know, we're big across all of those.

(04:57):
And then Joe Rogan and I go head to head
on the YouTube arts of Who's one and Who's two
in different weeks. We kind of exchanged one and two.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
But that's I mean, you see when you're sitting there
with your brother, I mean you do the first Trump
as a snake, I mean, was there the aspiration to
sort of begin to dominate this space, or was there
desire to be sort of the counter to a lot
of the more conservative to right wing podcasting that was
out there and the sort quote unquote anosphere. I mean,
what was what? Or was it just literally just your

(05:25):
own express grievance and frustration and just wanted to share
it with the world.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Express grievance and frustration is where it started. And never
had an ambition of building a network. But what was
clear is that what we were doing started connecting with
people in a way that I was like, Wow, this
actually made a difference and this doesn't exist And it
kind of shocked me that this didn't exist before, and
I kind of pinched myself. I'm like, why is it

(05:49):
that me and my two younger brothers, that mysell's brother.
It made no sense to me. And then we did
another one and it started to connect even more. And
another one. I said we may be onto something here,
you know, And then we just kept on building and building,
and then it became clear that we should have a
bigger ambition, and that bigger ambition is to build this
digital media network and independent media network, and so we

(06:12):
started talking about pro democracy digital independent media network mid
twenty twenty one, when nobody would now you hear that
a lot independent media is that. We leaned into it
right away. And then I looked on YouTube and I saw, Okay,
mister beast is crushing it. This person's crushing it. I said,
what are they doing though? And then I saw that

(06:32):
corporate news was using YouTube to dump their old kind
of content, but they weren't using it as the hub
of their network. I was like, lots of people are
getting information from YouTube. Let's use YouTube as the central
place where the network lives, not as a repository for
just whatever your other information is. So from that, it

(06:54):
was like, let's start doing videos multiple times a day,
Let's cover all the news, let's bring on guests. So
we built up the Midas YouTube channel. Then we started
building out other YouTube channels. You know Adam Mockler, So
Mockler's our gen z. Like there's no one crushing it
in the game right now, then Mackler. So we helped
Mackler build his channel. We have a legal channel called

(07:15):
Legal af Katie fang Leaves MSNBC launch that channel. We
have a Tennessee Red State channel, Blue Dot Red State
Tennessee brand oh channel, and so Aaron Parnas who's out there,
we have his channel. So all of that's now part
of the sprawling network. And those aren't even included. When
I give you that three hundred and fifty million view,

(07:37):
that's just Midas. When I add the whole universe up
and include TikTok, we're talking two billion, three billion views
a month. Flood the zone with the truth, while Maga
floods the zone with disinformation and tries to bend reality.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
So it's interesting. So when you were sitting in there
and I want to unpack all the different directions you're
going in, all the verticals and how large, I don't
think people fully understand this notion of the network might
have touched now just much more than just you and
what we see you doing every single day. But go
back to your reference to mister Beasts, I mean, did
you go out there and you sort of look at

(08:09):
best practices and yeah, as you said, you were trying
to unpack what makes him so as? I mean, if
you've got any one of his children just knows mister Beasts.
Let me sort of dominant front end center and the
consciousness piece of peace of mind. And I'll even find
myself watching this guy and just mesmerized by his ability
to pull all of us in and the entertainment value
and often some educational components in philanthropy obviously a big thrust.

(08:31):
Who else was out there that you were sort of
admiring that you, you know, you sort of sort of
sourced some consideration and incorporated into your approach, you know,
I was.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Just looking at all those YouTube channels, like mister Beasts there.
What was also big on YouTube would be be a
lot of influencers who would vlog and they would show
themselves like out partying and what they were doing. There
was a whole genre of like and I know it
sounds immature, like the prankster YouTubers, and I just I
found some of that stuff funny, but then it started

(08:59):
getting kind of fake. Some of it crossed the line,
but some of it I found, in my immature humor,
to be funny. So, I mean, I just saw what
they were doing, and a lot of them would tell
you what their YouTube strategies were, Like Beast has so
many videos where he goes, here's how I do it,
And I would watch those as we were building might
as touch, and he would talk about what the thumbnail
needs to look like. Why in my videos when I

(09:21):
interview you, for example, I get into it right away.
There's no long lead up. I throw it to you.
You have to get the audience's attention with your top question,
not hide the ball. On YouTube, you don't do long
intro music because if you do a long intro music,
the audience like, all right, I don't have that attention span.
You know, just get into it. Tell me why I
care about this to begin with. So you take those

(09:43):
best practices and you focus on news. And for us,
it was being unapologetically pro democracy and not in the
sense of I support democrats. It's I support human beings.
And what I found the biggest thing was in being
successful on YouTube the comments I listen to what my
audience is saying. I think listening is the key, and

(10:06):
I think so much corporate news took for granted their audience.
They were spoiled, They controlled the pipes of how media
is distributed and delivered, so they just took for granted
that everybody was going to watch their stuff. But people
were getting frustrated on what they were watching. The both
sides the propping up of Trump, normalizing his behavior. And

(10:27):
what we did is we took a step back. We
listened to what people were saying, understanding their struggles. And
they'll tell you if you listen, that they feel psychologically
tortured right now, living paycheck to paycheck. They'll explain to
you what it really means to lose healthcare. They'll explain
to you what it means when they see billionaires getting
richer and private jet tax exemptions while forty two million

(10:49):
people are going to lose their step And they'll tell
you that, And so you need to listen to that
and fight for them authentically and be there for them.
And we built a network around that premise. Now, my
views tend to align with people like you because you're
fighting for people. But it's not a foregone conclusion when
I start this network that I'm some democratic influencer or

(11:10):
I'm pushing a democratic agenda. I'm pushing an agenda that
fights for the people. And that's been the secret. It's
the end. We've grown with the community. Mister Beast grows
because he's got that community. We have what's called the
Midas Mighty, and the Midas Mighty, whether we're on YouTube
or substack. We've become one of the top substacks in
a very short period of time. They go where we

(11:31):
go because they trust us, and they trust us because
we care about them and they know phoniness from authentic care.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
It's amazing. What did you know? I mean, what point
did you guys, your brothers, You set around and you
finish the day, and then someone said, hey, boys, take
a look look at these numbers, and you're like, damn,
you know. I'm out there hustling for clients. I'm representing
some iconic clients like Colin Kaepernick, et cetera. You know,
that's my day job. We're just having some fun doing something.

(11:58):
It's important express point of view, putting people first, as
you say, listening to folks absorbient. But when do you know, well,
we're onto something.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Twenty twenty three, I phase out my law practice and
I say I've got to I've got to do this
full time.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
So you're doing this, You're not doing the law anymore.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
I'm not doing that anymore. We have a legal channel
where we elevate you know, some of the top legal voices.
You know, everybody from you know, Michael Popak leads it.
Karen Friedman Magnifilo is a well known lawyer in New York,
former top lawyer there. We've got a lot of people
who give the top commentary, but I'm not like representing
people day to day anymore, and now full time. I mean,

(12:35):
you know, the network's pretty big, right so we've got
probably nine channels that are under the kind of Midas mothership.
We've got people across the country and the world, you know,
like we'll have someone named Ken Harborough, a veteran. He'll
be in Kiev, or he'll be on the front lines.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
You're going global and global.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
And we started Midas Canada with a guy named Charlie Angus.
We're really big about to be the the first state?

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Is that it? Or what is the saw that coming?

Speaker 1 (13:03):
Well, we were an important voice fighting on behalf of
Canada right after the election, and we started bringing in
guests like Charlie Angus, who leads the Resistance tour there,
and we made this incredible connection with the people. Also
big in Australia and a lot of other places, but
Midas Canada developed and grew. We sell out a big

(13:26):
auditoriums in Canada. Conservative areas in northern Ontario mining towns.
This message resonates there, you know, in Canada is really
one of the front lines internationally in the resistance against
this authoritarianism, and so really big there, but international in
scope as well.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
It's interesting and what you just reference subtlely and unpack
that as well. It's this notion of being online but
also offline, and people are showing up in line with
these large audiences. So you're starting to actually do events
and building that out as well.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, you know, and so even think about Adam Mockler.
He's out there. He was there recently at that News Nation.
He was a kind of enemy territory there, you know,
and Cuomo got all angry and he's like, why is
Mike's doing? You know, Cuomo went on this like whole
crazy thing with Mockler. So I think he's jealous of

(14:18):
Adam Mockler's just debate skills of I'm being totally honest,
But Mockler's out there in those events. We've been doing
events across the country and that's what we're going to
be adding and kind of bolstering our presence. But to me,
you really gotta have that authentic connection before you go
out there. And at this point Midas is big enough

(14:38):
where I think we can make a huge impact on
college campuses, but just speaking to people, shaking hands, listening
to people.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
So when I started this podcast, the first guy I
had on controversially was I started and yeah, I mean
it was Charlie Kurt around turning Point USA and spending
time on college campuses, and I started seeing speaking of
people online, saw these huge crowds, including at USC where
just a couple of days before he was on the
day before he was on my podcast, he was down

(15:06):
at USC and my my daughter, I mean my daughter
and my sister's my niece, but my sister's daughter showed
me photographs and not just the ones online. She showed me.
He sort of surrounds that. I'm like, jeesus, this is legit.
This guy's turning it out. And so we thought we'd
turn up the volume in terms of just waking folks up,
particularly folks, you know, more progressive audience and more democratic

(15:27):
audience to what these guys are doing on the other side.
Would you consider yourself and I don't mean literal in
this case, but broadly sort of the anecdote to the
pro democracy set in terms of what's going on, not
just with Charlie Kirk, but others in that space and
what Charlie's network represents today obviously with this tragic death.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, you know, so I'm a professor at USC. I
was there on campus that day. I remember that as well.
But they're a law professor, law professor, yeah, yeah, And
I teach undergrad and grad school, you know. And as
you see people like Charlie Kirk and that ILK, they
rapid response and they put they push a lot of

(16:10):
disinformation and lies over and over again. And there's frankly
no tragedy that they won't exploit. I just got to
be blunted. Sometimes the bigger the tragedy, a wildfire.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Been on the receiving ag adjust.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
But to me, isn't that the perfect example, because I
bet I could be wrong here, But when you were
doing all the right things to get the fire trucks ready,
that this ready, the helicopter, you positioned.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Everything prepositioned days before the actual first ignition, and you.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Were doing what a governor. Yeah, And I don't think
as I watched you, I think it was a twenty
four hour period where you said, you know what, I
have to work equally hard on the information battle as
I have to do being the governor, which is a
crazy realization, but that's the realization right now. As former
President Biden, he would he he was from a different era.

(17:05):
Let's work together, let's compromise, bring people together. I'm fighting
for you, you're fighting He would do that. And what
they would do that whole right wing ecosystem, right fire hose.
On literally a meeting with California, they talk about a
fawcet connects a California and Canada. They you know which
is you know obviously.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
What he wanted to laugh and it makes me nervous. Ben,
You're one hundred percent right. It was such a shame.
They flooded the zone. They dominated it. I wish it
was just twenty four hours. I mean, they won those
first few days, and it was a communications battle that
was so asymmetric. I wasn't totally as someone who's been
in this that faced a recall that thought I knew
what I was doing. That stood up in one of

(17:45):
the largest media markets in the world, California, in terms
of the size, scope and scale of some of the
biggest media conglomerates that operate out of here. In communication
specialists was not prepared for what they were able to do.
And it was a combination of President elect Donald Trump.
It was combined with the weaponization of grievance that was
coming from these surround sound networks and the propaganda networks,

(18:07):
and then Elon Musk piling on, and it was a
wake up call, a big time wake up call.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
That's the antidote where you have to say, I see
what they're doing. So I have to flood the zone
with truth and I have to be powerful with it,
like I have to be strong, and I have to
let people know I'm fighting for you because they're wrong
and strong, and we have to be powerful.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
And where we can right. Mostly, I don't want to
be presortive. I mean, are presumptions that we're always right,
but look, they are certainly strong and wrong, but we are.
We're trying to be right, trying to you know, win
a debate or something. These guys are playing by a
different set of rules.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
And you've said this before that Trump is weakness masquerading
our strength and it's important that we stand up to
I mean, look when he talks about building a ballroom
right now while Americans are suffering while they've destroyed the
east wing of the White House. I think also you
have to take a step back and you have to
mock the behavior. Yes, it's so dangerous, but also it's
like when you grew up governor, where you're like, I

(19:08):
want to build a beautiful ballroom where there's going to
be beautiful gowns and people. It's like, what are you
even you want a ballroom? Like, what the hell are
you even taking?

Speaker 2 (19:16):
You want to the Kremlin ballroom because Putin has one. Yeah, no,
I mean, it's that's why we were putting up those
memes with Marie Antoinette. I mean, it's really extraordinary. I meant,
a time when the when the government shutting down, we're
cutting food stamps California, the fifty five million people are
going to lose access to snap benefits in literally a
matter of days. And this guy, we saw the just
desecration of history. It wasn't it's not a house, it's

(19:38):
what that house represents. And he did it intentionally and
just it was to bulldoze, you know, it was a
way of expressing his power that he that he doesn't
play by the same set of rules. It wasn't just
the physical manifestation of the wrecking ball. It's sort of
the wrecking ball that represents his power, his dominance, his aggression,
his authority, his authority over doing things to us, not

(20:00):
with us, for us, And it really is an expression,
I think of the moment we're in. And so this
notion of communication, of his ability to flood the zone,
of their ability to shape shift, of there were illusion rules,
facts don't matter. You dominate the narrative, and that's how
you ultimately move policy and win hearts and minds. The
debate I mean is, so this is something you fundamentally

(20:23):
recognized early, and you're you're you mentioned that you're posting constantly.
You're not just doing one half hour little YouTube channel
and putting it up. I mean, tell us a little
bit more about what you're doing in that respect on
a consistent basis.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
So the programming starts four am every morning, and there's
a four am, a five thirty, a seven and eight thirty.
Then every ninety minutes there's a fifteen to twenty minute video,
usually by me. I'm like seventy percent of it. But look,
if you did a three hour podcast, then you broke
it up into multiple minis you know I'm starting four
in the morning. Brother, Well, I do those videos in

(20:59):
the know. I do them before, to the chagrin of
my wife and my little baby. I do some of
those at night, but then we do those all day.
Then we have contributors come in and fill certain gaps
as well on that network. Then we'll launch two or
three live shows every day at a predictable time. But
it's predictable, it's reliable. People start to know, Okay, I

(21:20):
show up at the four, I get Ben, I show
up at the noon, I get this person. And you know,
we focus on domestic issues, but we also focus on
international issues, as I talked about with Canada, that other
people aren't really focused on. So you know, I've been
focusing a lot on these fake trade deals that Donald
Trump's doing, and I.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Fake trade deal. He's signed some of the most consequential
trade deals of our lifetimes. How many have been signed?

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Actually zero have been right, zero have been signed. Yes,
but it's so Remember they did ninety deals in ninety days.
They did six or seven fake deals in ninety days.
But just think about it. As you watch financial media
talk about this or corporate media, they just ignore the
ninety deals. In ninety days, and then they pretend that
he's done six or seven deals, when we know a

(22:07):
great deal.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Maker, he's just a deal maker. That's all he wants.
He wants a good deal for the American people.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
And so here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
We know.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Trade deals are very long agreements, usually thousands of pages,
very meticulously negotiated. And let's just start at the most basics,
because I'm a law professor. So deals have to be signed, right,
they're usually and they have to be binding. Like let's
start with the concept of did country A sign it?
And did the United States? In this case?

Speaker 2 (22:35):
I'm smiling just because I mean, it's sort of a basic.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
None of these are signed and they're just press releases. Yeah,
Or when he goes around and says, I brought in
seventeen trillion dollars and it sits on a terriff.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
So by the way, it's gone up beyond now seventeen
he's I think he's yeah, he's now using twenty he's twenty.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
But think about it, though, So if you've brought in
seventeen trillion dollars, amazing, then why can't we and supplemental
nutrition assistance programs?

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Right?

Speaker 1 (23:03):
Why can't we deal with extending the Affordable Care Act subsidies.
So what we also, I think, do with our coverage
that's smart is we don't just say ah, he's stupid,
he's an idiot, you know, making it up. You also
make the point we harness the number and say, okay, sure,
seventeen So the biggest ponzi scheme in history, Bernie madeoff

(23:23):
sixty five billion dollars. So you're engaged in a seventeen
trillion dollar ponzi scheme right now, screwing over the farmers
and the American people. And it's just not the way
I'm describing it is not people's experience watching corporate news
and so our entire framework of how we hit these issues,
but it aligns with how people feel. And the reaction

(23:46):
I get most frequently is that's how I feel. I
thought I was crazy and finally someone saying it. And
it's cause we're listening to them, but also it's because
we're not coming at it from this is a job.
Like I'm out. I don't wake up and go, oh,
I'm doing this and this is how I make money,
and I go, this is this is life or death.

(24:07):
I love that and I think they sense that and
they see that.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
I love it. I mean, just this fundamental notion of
pro democracy and the fact that you were years ahead
of that and understanding. I mean, we saw a democracy
lit on fire after January sixth. It's your point, I mean,
one more evidence you try to wreck this country, try
to dial up for votes, and so you mean you
saw that evidence, you did something about it. But I
think folks are now finally waking up to this fundamental
notion of a republic, a democracy, what it means, what

(24:32):
it is, and what it could you know, might likely
be if we don't stand up at the moment. But
I love the fact that you're able to shape shift
a narrative that just isn't the back and forth where
you have a Scott Jennings on CNN or something. You're
saying one thing in a response and then sort of
a you know, sort of a cat call of stress
and anxiety and you just you know, I mean, you
want to start screaming or yelling or throw something at

(24:52):
the TV. But you're able to unpack it and bring
it into someone's you know, create a sort of a
narrative that connects to how not only your feeling, but
what you're experiencing, and I want to go back to
just what you just said on as it relates to
the farmers. I mean, this to me is one of
the most extraordinary stories, This notion of the rural farmer,
this notion of the person that's the poor soul out
there working family farm doing soybeans just want fair free markets,

(25:16):
and all of a sudden, this guy comes in with
the wrecking ball. Not at the White House, he's winging
this case, but as it relates to these teriffs and
the retaliation overseas and the impact that's had on their family,
their farms, their communities, same thing with beef and beef prices.
To watch what he's doing to try to supplement in
Argentina these mistakes, what he's going to try to do

(25:37):
with President she as it relates to covering up those mistakes,
as it relates to trying to re course course correct
away from what's happening in Central America or South America.
I mean, unpack some of this from your perspective and
bring it into sort of how you would present the
argument to your viewers.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
So listen, how is it though that these farmers voted
for him by and by.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
By, and there's that question.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
But but I but it's because he senses their vulnerabilities
and he sees their weaknesses and their struggles and then
he lies to them like a con artist and a
Ponzi schemer. It's a it's a skill where he can
see it. And what Democrats don't ever do is sometimes
it's simple, but it's important, which is you look at

(26:24):
the camera and you have to truly feel this way.
But you say I care about you. I hear you,
and I feel your pain, and I'm going to be
there and I'm going to fight for you. I hear
what you're going through. I haven't heard a lot of.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
You say it.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Now if I hear you say it a lot. But
you don't hear that a lot.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
And what Clinton esque quality.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Democrats just assume that if.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
You're laid off, I probably knew you in in Arkansas exactly,
and there was a way it's all of a sudden, like,
my god, he probably didn't know me, and why sees me?

Speaker 1 (26:57):
And why is it that you know you see groups
of union workers when Trump's whole thing is destroy you,
You're like, literally it's I'm going to destroy you or
workers that you know. But he goes there with with
a pizza, usually cold. He takes the photos with them,
you know, and people are like, oh, maybe he cares
about it.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
I mean, how this guy shows up in McDonald's or
twenty states are still giving people seven dollars and twenty
five cents and ending up on food stamps that he's
cutting as a consequence, ending up on Obamacare, which has
no problem doubling and tripling in those states. And the
people are buying this bullshit.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
You know, it's a very complex times, and he gives
them a very easy answer. It's the immigrants, it's the
other it's transgender people, and this is why. And we
need to be angry, and I'm going to make this
better and I care about you. Let's do it. And
actually he's the reason why they're in the situation. It's
him and his billionaire buds are the ones who are

(27:51):
screwing them.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
But how is it that, you know?

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Because he sees it though, and his speeches are kind
of geared to it, and Democrats are up there. It's
kind of strong. He's strong, wrong and fraud and but
weak de amatic masquerading as straight. It's fraud and oftentimes
I think the Democratic Party just isn't saying I'm gonna
freaking fight for you. I mean, when I saw you
in the Seiu, when you were surrounded by the group
of union work No, but for real. But that's a

(28:15):
scene that we haven't seen in a while, you know, rallying,
rallying workers like that, and that's what we need to
see more So, when I think about what the farmers
are going through, it's just a perfect Trumpian example. It's
a Ponzi scheme on top of pond scheme. Now he's
gonna do another fake trade deal, which I maybe they
temporarily buy more soybeans. Look like I saved you. You

(28:36):
created the problem. What do you mean you saved? You
created the problem? And at what expense? You know he's
gonna it seems obvious to me he's gonna give up Taiwan.
Part of this whole deal is to basically say, you
take Taiwan, give me a little soybean, and also let
Maga control the TikTok algorithm. Jijingping knows exactly what the
weaknesses are. Trump wants the photo, he wants the deal.

(28:59):
The market goes up for a few that's it. That's
how I'm back.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
I'm going to come back to that because everything you
said is worthy of a conversation. I just want to
go back a little bit to the saau because I'm
really I appreciate for me, that just fills your soul,
right when that energy of people and you know, I
was in a crowd. People don't necessarily know what you're
referring to. Just the other day, a PROP fifty rally
and I was giving a speech and I was removed

(29:23):
from the crowd, and I just felt disconnected in every way,
shape or form. And I just walked right in and
just to everyone sort of absorbed and we're all sort
of in this together. And I'm looking around. Mic doesn't
work like, I don't need the MIC. I just that
there's people are people are scared, man, They're scared. And
I was looking around. There was I mean, no one

(29:43):
looked like me. It was the most diverse crowd I'd
ever been. I mean, I mean, Latino family is African Americans,
people lives are torn asunder, communities on edge. By the way,
same union I worked with to get twenty dollars minimum
wage for fast food workers twenty five dollars for healthcare
workers only stay in the country can lay claim to that.
So I'm really proud of them. But this notion of

(30:04):
I mean, people really are.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Vulnerable right now, he's launching chemical weapons into communities with ice,
I mean weapons that are banned in war on a
regular basis. He's doing chemical warfare with secret police. Let's
just abuse. That's anything but that. Yeah, why you got
masks on? Why don't you identifying yourself? What about due process?

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Why I mean that? Why are people allowed to disappear
come back? Is there no recourse, no oversight?

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Waiting at elementary schools, courtrooms.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Fifteen year old kid outside school waiting for a sister
to leave school, disabled kid, They put a gun to
the kid's head. Mistaken identity. How the hell is that?
No accountability, no oversight? Where are you, speaker Johnson on that?
Where's the outrage? So let's go back this notion of
you framing things, which I love the arsonists now is
the firefighter, the guy who literally creates the problem, which

(30:58):
is exactly t up beautifully with President she and what's
going to happen in China, all the trade war, all
the fire and fury, and he's going to act like
he's softened it and tempered it, and you said it.
She has his number. The Chinese know exactly what they're
dealing with. Now.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, Trump wants to announce a deal and he wants
the photo and if it could enrich him through the TikTok,
and that's the hymn part is TikTok. He wants to
control the algorithm. He wants his rich oligark friends who
will give kickbacks in my opinion, back to him. That's
part of the plan. So originally TikTok was going to
be banned by.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
This senate in the House.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Remember now, it's a leverage point for g to use
against him, and he walks right into it. She sees
it right away. It's obvious he sees it.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
He sees it a pretty pretty inexpensive part of the bargain.
If he can get Taiwan for giving up the algorithm
on TikTok. From she's perspective, pretty goddamn good he is.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
He's already got I mean, I'm not trying to be
ultra alarmist. They'll though, I think it's time for alarm.
Trump wouldn't let the president of Taiwan use American airspace.
All the guy wanted to do was land and route
to Central America. Trump wouldn't let the head of Taiwan land.
So if you're not going to do that, you think
that he's going to be providing the requisite sport. But

(32:17):
do you remember back in the day when MAGA was
always like, we're China hawks, and they framed themselves as hawks.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
I remember as a black and white movie days about
ten months ago.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Hawks hawks, We're financial hawks.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
In many ways, the Democratic Party was becoming we were
kind of competing against. It was what when everyone starts
to agree with something, that's when I sort of took
a step back and goes, maybe we should all sort
of assess where we are. But one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Right, they say they're financial They use hawks all the time,
the financial hawks. It's like, what what do you mean
you're a hawk? You're you're the most financially irresponsible people.
I mean, it was Trump's first term that added eight
trillion dollars.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Eight point four trillion, two point four. Right, I'll get
that point for it. Right, I'll raise you. You know,
oh he's raised And he just went another trillion dollars,
the fastest trillion of the debt we've ever seen in
US history. Where the hell is the outrage of the
Republican Party.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah, the deficit righting of debt seven percent higher right
now year over year than under former president. But under
every stat they're the most fiscally irresponsible. Yet they go
around call themselves hawks like it's it's and corporate news.
They frame it this way. They let him get away
with it. You don't hear a people got tore down
the white We talked about it before. But the way

(33:26):
they normalize that's the same people who said Obama wore
the tan suit and they flipped out.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
And that was the whole with the Washington Post editorial,
I was saying, absolutely it was the right thing to do, and.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
They used it in the context of not in my
the nimbi nimbi as if it's the debate we're having
in California housing local residential housing policy that Trump first Nimby's.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
They called it that kind of offended, offended the sensus
of people out here. I mean, I imagine if you're
someone like Ezra Kline and others making the case on
an abundance agenda, that's pretty offensive. They tried to sort
of co opera cut you know them out, conflate or
corporate that into the argument.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
When I was a litigator, there was an intentional infliction
of emotional distress content does it? Does it shock the conscience?

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Right?

Speaker 1 (34:10):
That's what that was the standard. And Trump has inflicted
nationwide intentional infliction of emotional distress. His conduct is conscious shocking.
And so when people wake up and they're being disappeared
by ice, when their healthcare is being ripped away, when
they're psychologically tortured, living paycheck to paycheck, and people aren't
acting with an urgency, they're pissed. You notice the numbers

(34:34):
of the Democratic Party are going up as they're seeing
the fight. They were low because they didn't see people
fighting for them, not because they were unpopular. They were
low because they lost and people don't like losers. And
also that they're fighting God, that was the issue.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Listen to what I hope everyone just listened to what
you said. Could not agree that. By the way, That's
why I'm very optimistic about November. We're gonna win Proposition fifty.
We're gonna win in New Jersey, We're gonna win Virginia.
You've got this young, dynamic leader, whether you agree or disagree,
whatever flavor you are of Democrat, democratic, socialists, conservative, mod whatever.
But you've got this young, dynamic leader who ran an

(35:11):
unbelievable campaign. Success leaves clues. Talk about media savvy and
a communication capacity that's next level. I mean that guy's
I made another level in terms of ability to communicate you.
Oh look, Look, Look where the crowds are. Look who
people look.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
This is how I describe it. And it's funny because
you got you here. I said that there's you know,
on the one hand, you have a governor newsom energizing
people fighting back using moral authority and formal authority. Then
I said, look at Mam Donnie drawing massive crowds, AOC
drawing massive crowds. Bernie massive crowds in red states of
Trump supporters also, and so we should look at him.

(35:47):
By the way, what mom Donnie did before he even
launched the campaign, right after the election, maybe right when
he launched it was he interviewed, he was listening. He
did a video right away after the election speaking to
people in the boroughs and saying why'd you do that?
And he got the answer that was very I think
influential in his You know in his race, always.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Thinking as you were describing your approach to building might
as touched now the network. That was his approach to
building the campaign. Ask people what they want, hecks and
now they're feeling see them listen to them exactly. I mean,
I thought that that was a masterclass of common sense
really at the end of the day. But it's now
it's you know, it's a next generation media savvy as well.

(36:28):
And I hope again back to your point, just the
capacity for us. We've just got to disabuse ourselves with
the ways of the past. We've got to completely shift
gears in terms of now dominating their flooding the zone,
but also becoming the party that is empathetic. It's not
about power, dominance and aggression. It's about empathy. It's about compassion,
it's about collaboration. Those are the superpowers.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
We talk a lot about empathy, yes, because if you
listen to also what Maga say, they go empathy is
for weak people, and I got quite the opposite, you know,
when I grew up, know how Magal likes to call
themselves out alpha alf alfha, you know, which is firstly,
if you call yourself alpha, that's weird.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
To begin with.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
But when I grew up, the quote unquote alphas, the
kids in high school would be the people who would
stand up against the bullies and tell the bullies, no,
that's not how you behave and you would put your
arm around the marginalized community and the people who were
being bullied and you would say, I got you. That's
how I was raised. But right now this idea of
the bully has been glorified, and we have to disabuse

(37:27):
people of that knowledge and say, nah, that's weakness, that's
weakness to your point, masquerading our strength, But that's not
how we should treat human beings. And stop blaming the
problems the complexities on transgender people. And we can't abandon communities.
I think that's an important point where I think after
the election, when people were trying to figure out the

(37:49):
post mortem of what happened, I think that there was
a lot of communities that felt, am I going to
be abandoned? I think the black community, are you saying
that this is and you're not going to support me?
And in the transgender community, I just think that we
have to proudly support communities that have been under attackers.
They're human beings, damn it. And we got to say

(38:10):
we're here with you, We're here with you every step
of the way, and we're fighting for you.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
I love that age, you know. I'm all remember I
was part of something called America's Promise. I was tapped
by Mayor Willie Brown in San Francisco as a brand
new supervisor and it was a volunteer initiative. But it
really inspired me. We have the largest volunteer corp in
America right now, bigger than the Peace Corps guy Josh Friday,
who's running for me. Our service efforts, our next level.
It's about service. Patriots isn't about common experience. But there

(38:37):
was a principle I remember it was. It was a
former general that said, no one stands taller than when
he or she bends down on one knee to lift
someone else up. And and and I'll never forget that
this notion I mean of bending down on one you
to lift other people popo up. And now you watch
these guys belittling vulnerable communities, mocking peoples with disabilities, people

(39:01):
that are just trying to survive.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
As you try to suggest what I love seeing you,
I mean, what has become a parent. To me, as
I've watched you, is that beyond being a politician or
being a governor, you seem to really you know, I
guess I'm changing, I'm questioning. You know, you seem to
really enjoy being around people. You seem to love the
energy in the room, and you're at your happiest when

(39:25):
you're there versus necessarily doing like and that to me
shows like and I think that's what's connecting in my view,
But I think that's if.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Someone walks up to you on the street and starts
to say something, they're starting to tear up, and you're
give them a hugger like this is like the magical moments. Man,
this is life. What a gift to just people, communities
to be seen. I mean, I'll tell you just I mean,
some of the most extraordinary experiences I've had, period, full stop,
have been around some of these ice raids and with

(39:58):
the federalization of the nast Guard and walking in some
of our diverse communities and just walking the street and
having people come up just so scared, don't know what
to do, and just be able to hug people and
absorb that and just take that in and recognize how
scared people are, man, and what a gift it is
to be able to have this bully pulpit the opportunity

(40:19):
to try to do something about it. It's also it's humbling.
There's a tremendous amount of grace in that. But no,
this is at the end of the day. I love
that we started. You just talked about that it's about
damn people and you know, look, I fail in that
regard as well. We started, I'm talking about I remember
defending the Biden record. We're the end of the world,
the best GDP growth, you know, then we're record breaking

(40:41):
you know this, and record breaking that I'm doing fifteen
point four million jobs eight times one of the last
three Republican presidents combined. And people were like, no, wonder
we struggle with that message. Man, It wasn't we didn't
connect it down to real people. It was every as
if we're all living in the aggregate or something.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
The hard part when I was a litigator, though, is
sometimes you'd draw a judge that's appointed by the other side,
and no matter how much work you put into a case,
you could be with that client and you kind of
know this is this outcome is going to be a
rough one. So the blessing that I have in this
current platform is, you know, when I was at the
no King's peaceful protests out here in Los Angeles, I mean,

(41:18):
the idea. It's still a strange concept for me because
I don't lean my house all that much because I
told you about the schedule that I have. When I
went out there and all these people are coming up
to me and saying You've changed my life and thank
you so much, I was like, that's.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Why I do what I do. And it's such an
increditary right.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
It just makes me want to wake up earlier every day.
And there's not enough hours in the day to be
helpful and be in this moment, And that to me
is so key. Is are you meeting this moment right now?
And how are you meeting this moment right now? And
every day before I go to sleep, I go did
I meet the moment today with my coverage? Did I
do something to expand the network or to improve Did

(41:58):
I win this messaging war, this information battle that's out there?
And you know, I hope to try to answer that yes.
Every day before I go to how do.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
You balance in that space all of the noise constantly
chasing right, I mean every day, this guy's shape shifting.
Another true social another crazy meme, another absurds, you know,
I mean, this guy's just flood talk about floods his own.
He can't he can't even spend twenty minutes relaxing on
Air Force one on a flight. He has to run

(42:27):
back there and hang out with a RI.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
They got the greatest, the greatest MRI in the history
of MRI.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
I didn't know there was, by the way, anyone has
met a perfect MRI was perfect, by the way, I'm
just not aware of anyone going into it get an
MRI that wasn't going in for a reason.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
When I specially my MRI freaked me out. When I
did them or they put me in that machine, I.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Was just close your eyes and do not open your eyes.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
That's the key, right exactly. But it was, you know,
reminded me of what you said before Trump did the
initial invasion and all wanted to talk to.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
You, like that call he had with you was you
know this right before he federalized the National Guard and
puts seven thousand active duty marines on the streets of
the second largest sect.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Gavin, you like my hat's goat.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
I mean, how many hats do mysel? What do you
think of anything about the debate with Gamala Coad? She
did pretty well because it was you know, I said
it was just two you know, he goes he said
something it was two against one. I said, yeah, it
was two against one. I was you know, what do
you mean two against one? Because no, it was five
against one. The cameramen were against me as well. I mean,
he's look, this notion of not being the doesn't matter

(43:32):
if he's the heel or the hero, as long as
the damn star. And so how do you And this
goes back to the question I want to ask you,
how do you sort of curate the moment, talk about
living in the moment and being accountable at this moment.
How do you not fall prey to reacting to what
he wants you to react? Because it seems like me

(43:55):
were perfect little sheep. When he sits out there and
puts the twenty twenty eight hat on there on speaker
Jeff Reeser soon to be speaker Jeff reasons Chuck Schumer
there to troll them. He knows exactly what we're gonna do.
We're gonna run with that there's an old phrasees he
pisses on the grasshoppers just to hear them sing, so
he knows exactly what he's doing in there. But how

(44:15):
do we avoid the temptation to always respond to that
versus to focus on the essential?

Speaker 1 (44:22):
I think you have to lead with your principles and
your values, and I'm not trying to be corny about that. Like,
the reality is is that we know who we are
as a network when we talk about values like empathy,
when we talk about pro democracy, when we talk about,
you know, fighting for people who are going to be
losing their health care, when we listen, we can frame

(44:42):
things always through that values and principles set, and so
it filters through that. So it's fairly easy for me
not to be like, how should I cover this? And
I'm not looking to see how is this network doing
it or that network doing it? I go how do
I feel about this? Why did we create this network?

(45:04):
And how we're so in tuned with our audience that
it almost is second nature about how we respond and
what areas do we avoid and kind of how to
go into these issues.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Now.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
I think that there's a process where we evolve over
time and we get more sophisticated. I think that mistakes
that I've made. I should have focused more on how
international events were impacting the United States and not looking
in twenty twenty four the election as just a horse

(45:38):
race and understanding that there are other factors that are ticula.
But I usually look at it through what's my values
and principles set, and I have a broader view than
just Trump and Maga. My view is is that this
right wing populism, anti immigrant is actually not unique to Trump.
America is the biggest country, so he's I mean, one
of the biggest things. So he's a vessel of in

(46:00):
a very big and exaggerated way. But this stuff coming
from Putin and coming from Orbon and manifested in Bucelli
and Javier malay La Penn in France, the Reform Party
in the UK, this is part of a broader situation
and so as I framed the network, it's not necessarily

(46:21):
unique to what's the pushback to Trump on a day, Yes,
there's some days you need to respond, But more broadly
is what's the response to this right wing title wave
that is trying to take down all of the post
enlightened thinking that democracy was built on, and that's really

(46:41):
where we are. This is a rise of authoritarians and
this right wing popular whatever you want to call it,
against all of the building that had taken place really
since you know, the Declaration of Independence, their constitution and
developing a more perfect union.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
That's what it is.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
And as all of this information has flooded the zone,
you would think that's a good way that people get educated.
But paradoxically, I think it's brought us back to the
Dark Ages and the feudal times, because lots of information
doesn't mean good information. And so with AI, with all
of this info that's out there, it is what I

(47:22):
think the kind of right wing authoritarians want to create
is this kind of lord versus peasant dynamic that existed
in the Dark Ages when people didn't have access to information,
and I think we were creeping into that. So it's
a long winded and philosophical answer to your question, but
we have to be framed. I'm framed in that, and
I don't think lots of people who are building networks,

(47:44):
I think they go a lot of Donald tr I'm
doing no, no, no, no, no, that's a mistake. The
broader issues is making these holistic connections and gearing the
network towards a higher calling, and then I could respond
on a day to day basis What am I going to?

Speaker 2 (47:57):
I love it. I mean there's so many things what
you just say that I want to unpack that particularly
resonated with me. This notion of you know your why,
you know why you exist, and so the what and
how is easy than that I think about it. And
forgive me bringing up Clinton again, but you know, I
remember his campaign. I remember it was so residant to me.
Maybe it was just my age at the time, but
this notion of community, responsibility, opportunity that he was able

(48:20):
through that lens to then advance policy and express the
why and the what and the how of his campaign
and ultimately his presidency. But what you said specifically about
Trump being an historic figure, I think he's historically he's
an historic figure because he's most historically unpopular figure, but
he's also historically redundant. You joked about the call I

(48:45):
had with Trump where he starts bringing up Magi. He goes, hey, Gavin, you,
what do you think of Maggot's pretty good brand? I said,
it's not even original, I said, Donald Ronald Reagan had
made America great. Heck, there was someone running for governor
of California against Jerry Brown. Her entire campaign but one
hundred and seventy three million dollars up to be governor
of California, and it was make California great again. You're redundant,

(49:06):
and I'll remind everybody, or remind him if you're not illuminated,
or at least to illuminate. But it may be interesting.
There was a guy named Dennis Kearney in the eighteen
eighties in California. He was in the East Bay Sarsguy's Bay.
He ran the Working Men's Party, and he literally began
and ended every speech. I'm trying to connect President she
right now to whatever else we'd do. He ended every speech,

(49:27):
whatever else we do. The Chinese must go, and they
were building virtue walls. I mean, you can go back
to the Chinese museums and all across the state of California,
you'll see all of these old illustrations around the Chinese
must go. Chinese where the scape go. They're the reason
you don't have X, Y and Z. We have to
build the virtual wall and keep him away. Led to
the Chinese Exclusion Act in the late eighteen eighties. And

(49:49):
everything that Dennis Curtie represents is what Donald Trump represents today.
He's an historic figure that literally is a redundant figure
in terms of this larger historical experiment. And it's important
for us to remind ourselves of that for two reasons.
One is that we maintain our resiliency we're able to

(50:11):
work through and around these kinds of figures, but also
to remind ourselves that we have to be vigilant as well.
In the authoritarian frame that you just advanced.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
He's deeply unpopular right now, and historically unpopular, thirty seven
percent in almost every category, every category.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
Weakness again, weakness, Why is he trying to rig the election? Weakness?
Why is he calling the governor of Indiana? Why did
he move in Missouri? Why is he moving in nor Ady?
Moving to North Carolina? Let alone? Grega weakness he's trying.
He recognizes the clock. They're going His minions are going
after everything because they know the gig's up next November. Weakness,

(50:53):
forgive me no.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
And he thought that by now he would control every
layer of this. He thought he was what he calls
an arc. He thought he would build his triumphal arch.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
This is what he will.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
That's the next focus after the Golden Ballroom, the triumphal arch.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
I forgot it. Forgive me. I even forgot about that
little figurine that he has a little figurine that he's
showing everybody. So he thought that he thought that erect
the architry off. Oh my god, that's coming, guys. Pay
attention to that. Sorry, ma.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
He thought he thought that everybody was going to submit
by now. So the fact that we're here right now
in October heading to the November fourth Prop fifty vote,
you've exercised your moral and formal authority. You've inspired other
states to step up, and we will see what they're
going to do. See what they're going to do in Virginia. Virginia, Yeah,

(51:44):
we'll see what they're gonna do. Maryland hopefully we see.
Leader Jeffries is in Illinois this week, so we'll see.
But that's why you call it Prop fifty also because
it's not just about.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Fifty states, just about the United States of America. It's
about again, I keep saying it these you know, my God,
how blessed are we? I mean, this notion of co
equal branch as a government, popular sovereignty, rule of law.
You know, it's an extraordinary it really is. I mean,
I know you can get you know, you can sort
of fall to a romantic notion of it's hardly imperfect.

(52:17):
But this notion, the architecture of this two hundred and
forty nine years, you can't take it for granted. You know,
how about this?

Speaker 1 (52:22):
When I talk about the shutdown, I talk about fifth
grade and Schoolhouse Rock, my fifth grade government class. That
our system works, where the parties are supposed to talk
with each other, the idea that Maga Mike Johnson ordered
by Donald Trump to say, we're not going to talk
with Democrats yet alone negotiate with Democrats. That's how I

(52:42):
frame this issue in a very basic way. I go,
one side's not even talking when twenty million Americans healthcare
is about to be ripped away. The other side, the
Democrats are there to talk and negotiate and try to
figure out a solution. So let's just keep these issues
pretty freaking simple. Why don't they want to talk? Why
do they want to do everything in silent? Why does

(53:04):
leader Jeffries say let's do a negotiation in public? Why
did Donald Trump not want the cameras in the White
House with the meeting with leader Jefferies and Schumer. And
you know what they said afterwards, that would just be theater.
Donald Tunald mag and Mike said, that would just be theater.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Thought it interesting, Donald Trump saying it would be theater. Yeah,
in the theater of the absurd is the fact. And
I'll just remind everybody that he canceled. Donald Trump canceled
the meeting just a week before the government shut down
with the two leaders because of public pressure. He decided
to agree to that meeting that he did in private
with the twenty twenty eight trolling hats that they sent

(53:41):
out as a tweet, and that weekend, right before the shutdown,
he went golfing. It's zero interest in a deal, period,
full stop. Where is the president of United States? Now?
He's overseas. It's important to be overseas, but hold on,
don't you think it's more important to address the domestic
crisis of his own making? Right now? The airport shut
down here in Los Angeles just this week. The fact

(54:03):
that we have millions and millions of people during Thanksgiving
that are not only pain more than they have ever
paid for, beef, paying more ten point eight percent as
of today, more for Halloween candy. They already had the
indignity of paying more for their backpack and school supplies.
God forbid, he's not successful with President She, he may
ruin Christmas for us. He's nowhere to be found. Speaker Johnson,

(54:27):
as you said, doesn't want to negotiate. And Donald Trump
quite literally doesn't give a damn that people's insurance health
insurance is going to be lost or tripled because he,
in his big beautiful bill just did the biggest cuts
to medicate in American history. Forgive me for the long windedness.
God bless the Democrats for standing up on all these

(54:49):
things and being willing to fight for these things.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Think about with President She, what's the biggest issue China
US is China's stronghold on rare earths, and they're a
bit to implement price controls shut down the market of
rare earths. That's not whatever this framework is is not
going to even address that. It's going to be window
dressing so that Trump can say, look, I got soybean

(55:12):
farmer's this at the expensive time. One look at the
Middle East. They announced that what took place between Hamas
and Israel was a peace deal. It was a ceasefire,
and a ceasefire is a good thing. We want a ceasefire,
we want the hostages return. But they didn't address the
central issue of whether there should be a two state solution.
So how do you do a peace deal and not

(55:35):
address that there should be a free Palestine in that?
And how is it that Hamas wasn't a signatory. Israel's
not a signatory to going back to what we said
earlier to this ceasefire. And while we've seen you know,
dozens and dozens or more deaths of Palestinians, while Hamas
has retaken control of Gaza, while Net and Yahoo doesn't

(55:59):
support a two state solution. Yet everybody's like, oh, there
must be a piece do I'm like, you didn't fundamentally.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Historic piece steel, unprecedented peace steel. He's moved on. Look.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Former President Biden brought back eighty three percent of the hostages, great,
Donald Trump brought back the remainder. Both great, yes, But
the issue ultimately is when we talk about these stories
from a media network's perspective. When I was watching that
and seeing how is corporate news covering it? Peace deal
time magazine cover one week, Time magazine covered the next week,

(56:29):
and I'm like, what are we talking about? Like, am
I in some crazy world? I go, did they even
address two state solution? And they didn't. So I'm like,
then what are we We know where this is headed though,
if we don't address that fundamental issue exactly right, So
you could look at all of his conduct, we always
see this fraudy element of it. And to your point
bringing it back to domestic the American people are suffering

(56:52):
while he's doing all these things. The American people are true,
and not as some talking points. No, they're really suffering.
People are terrified right now that they're about to lose
their healthcare. Who can pay another twenty thousand dollars a year?

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Twenty seven is the average household cost you dollars?

Speaker 1 (57:10):
People can't afford one thousand dollars more year you had
twenty seven thousands?

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Crazy, No, So so back to just what you're doing.
I mean, people feel like they're going crazy, and it's
nice to find is, you know, to sort of what
you do is a place where they feel, you know,
a sense of well being and you could sort of
distill their fear and anxiety and express a relationship to it,
but also an understanding of the broader context, and it

(57:36):
begs this question. I mean, there's a you know, old
Tom Freeman who used to say the question that he
thinks everyone should wake up and ask themselves. An answer
of your elected official, every leader, broadly defined, is what
world are we living in? And what are the trend
lines that define this world? So i'd ask you more broadly,
what world do you think we're living in? In the
broader context?

Speaker 1 (57:56):
Well, I don't want to be living in the world
of don ok. I want to be living in a
world where we aspire to be good.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
Like let me just keep it that the thing, the
one thing the founding fathers never considered, this notion of
good character just goodness. You know, it's a piece of
paper of the Constitution. It's notion of co equal branches governments.
I mean we've seen with the Supine Congress, Supine Supreme Court.
I mean we've got a Supreme Court that literally Kavanaugh
Court in this case, because he did that brief where

(58:25):
he says it's okay to racially profile based not just
on the color you spind, but where you congregate and
the language you speak, and obviously the supine nature of
this speaker, Mike Johnson. But this ocean of character is foundational,
isn't it. It's imbued in all of it, but it
was never expressed.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Ultimately, the Constitution is a contract, and going back to
my being a professor, in every contract, there's the implied
covenant of good faith and fair dealing in the Constitution
as well. Good faith. Donald Trump's history of bankruptcy, his
history of fraud, his history of being a felon, his
history in general is one of bad faith. Ripping contracts apart,

(59:10):
they don't matter. The ultimate contract he's ripped apart is
the Constitution. So to me, the Constitution can't address every
aspect of the good faith and fair dealing. I think
that the founders, and this was perhaps a flaw in
the document, you know, potentially, was that people would behave
in a way of good faith and fair dealing within

(59:33):
the broader principles and we would.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
As disagree with them, but you know, and they make
color around the lines a little bit.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
But yeah, so that needs to be brought back, and
that's not talked about a lot. Moral character and being
a good person and behaving, you know, as an adult
in a grown up and I worry. You know, I'm
raising a one year old girl right now, and I'm
glad that she doesn't fully see right now, but I

(01:00:01):
worry especially, you know, when I teach these students who
have now lived with Trump for they're going to be
going on however long it's going to be, and that's
been their life, that their worldview is shaped by bullying
and low moral character or no moral character. And that's
a problem. But that's why I think it's incumbent upon

(01:00:23):
us in general, as a network, as a governor, as
a professor, wherever we are in our day to reflect
good moral character to the best of our ability. And
we're all going to make mistakes. For all human we
shouldn't be judging.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
And we're not talking about holier than thou. It's just
some basic principles. Do our best. Yeah, let's try.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
I love that. So look, the Democrats seem to be
doing their best. They said to be united as it
relates to this singular message around healthcare. But to be fair,
it's even more than healthcare, though I think they've done
a brilliant job highlighting that issue. It's what you just said,
this notion not the rule of law, but the role
of down that the Constitution on a matter. Nor does
the Congress. Whatever the Congress says President with Russ Voyd

(01:01:03):
what he claims or as he refers to as Darth Vader,
his words not mine, they'll just do whatever the hell
they want. Congressionally appropriated funds. They're going to redirect them
away from blue states, blue districts to red states and
red priorities. How the hell under those circumstances does this
shutdown ever end?

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Well, I mean that's why I think you have to
continue to have. First off, don't I don't think it's
going to end this year. And frankly, you know, I don't.
I don't fully know if it's going the way it'll end.
I think is they'll kill the filibuster in the Senate.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
See I agree with you, and you say that, you
know that I think that needs that's gotta be more socialized.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Yeah, to me, that's what's going to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
People are going to get their letters November first that
their monthly premiums are going up to three thousand dollars
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Twenty four.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
People are gonna rightfully panic. And Trump's still not going
to want to do it. He's not going to want
to talk. He'll order Thun to kill the filibuster and that,
and to me, that's what they're gonna do. I mean,
but the way we frame that there is almost the
way Zelensky had to frame putin coming in and let
people know in advance what the plan is, so that

(01:02:16):
it was socialized before in anticipation. And when you think
about these historical figures, Trump kind of thinks that, that
kind of thinks that, So you have to prepare people
for what the moves are, which is what we try
to do on the network. And that's where I think
this ends up heading because Trump's never gonna speak with
He's never gonna allow Magamike to even speak with Democrats.

(01:02:36):
It's not about the pressure. Trump likes the suffering, Like
he doesn't care that people are in pain.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Cruelty and chaos. Is the police exactly the one thing
all these things haven't come quite objectively, Yeah, Like I
don't think that would offend him. The cold bloodedness of
Stephen Miller as the implementer and all this, I mean period,
full stop cruelty, chaos.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
But that's where Democrats can't be complacent, And where they got,
rightfully a lot of green was when it seemed that
they very early on, we're just gonna let Trump steamroll
over them, and they were not speaking powerfully at that time,
and it was not being communicated in a way. But
in this shutdown fight, it does seem that they've communicated it,

(01:03:17):
that they're being more public and I feel a better
sense of Okay, I see, And I think it was
the right move to focus on healthcare, not because of
the strategic but because health care living like living is
one of the main.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Proportionally is benefiting. I mean, it's universal. It's not just
universal health care, it's universal. I mean it's foundational in
our lives, and it connects every single person together disproportionately
in these red counties, which is the great irony of this.
Who's representing whom? Democrats have your back to, my Republican friends,
we have your back, and we're happy to come back

(01:03:52):
to the negotiating table to fight for you. The President
of United States has no interest.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
And just then I say, well, then what's your plan?
Donald showed me the plan, Because that is an idea
of a healthcare plan. Remember that sixteen hundred percent discounts
is what he says. He's going to reduce discounts. That
means they're going to pay you six sixteen can you
sixteen hundred? Or MED beds. He's posting that their secret
UFO and outer space technology. We're going back to the MRI.

(01:04:19):
You going they don't like tears.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Got to whisper that because that's I was, that's between us.
You know about the medbank, of course, I mean you
know that is well, that's what we'll edit this.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Later when you're a governor. They read you in on
MED betch.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Sorry, you know you got to tell me about the
MED buto. No, I mean that's a that's a whole Look,
how uncomfortable I am. This is very difficult. Let me
let me step back and I and I'm mindful. You
got to get back to doing your damn work.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
I'm with the governor.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
I really appreciate this conversation on so many levels, but
I want to sort of step back and connect because
I want to talk about I mean, it's interesting your
perspect on the end of the filibuster, which I completely
subscribe to, and I think more and more people are
going to start to understand that's likely going to be
the outcome. We can talk a little bit more about
where we are in November fourth, because I think we're
going to be a much better place, and I think

(01:05:13):
you've expressed why in relationship to what you just said,
where we were as a party, how we acquiesced as
it relates the last potential government shut down, and now Highy,
we're finally unified, and we're in a position of strength
because we have both, as you suggest, the moral authority
and formal authority. Where we're actually exercising are minority rights.

(01:05:34):
That said, what do you make of the DOJ being
sent out to Virginia, DOJ sending out election observers here
to California five particular counties. What do you make of
the federalization of the National Guard through election day? This
forgive me in the pejorative because a lot of good

(01:05:54):
people that work for this agency, but I don't like
how they're being abused, and I don't like the way
our communities are being assaulted and abuse. So I don't
say secret police lightly, but Ice and Border Patrol masked
that are out in and around Democracy Center where we

(01:06:15):
did our kickoff for Prop fifty that I believe will
be in and around, pulling booths and voting places around
election day, not just this year, but next year. What
do you make of all of these things that are happening.
Are they coincidental? Is it part of a larger strategy.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
The strategy is Donald Trump doesn't want elections. He doesn't
like elections. He wants to be anointed king. He thinks
like an authoritarian. So it's a test run for what
he wants to do at the midterms. But more than
a test run, it's very serious. He wants to send
people at the DOJ what he calls election watchers, to
intimidate people and without an appropriate check, without pushback. I

(01:06:53):
think he wants them there to literally scare people. I
think he wants the ice agents to do what they're doing.
When I call what it is, the chemical warfare and
the gas canisters that they're throwing, the intimidation tame.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
I mean Greno himself that threw it, threw a damn container. Yeah,
after being told you can't do it? The hell is that?
Who the hell's he think he is? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
I mean and you saw him what he was doing
outside of your event.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Yeah, a tough guy.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
What you know what?

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
Just a bloviating guy. I mean, seriously, jeesus, I mean, ah,
the hell we I mean, well, we're going to talk
about winning in a minute, keep going.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
Well, you know, and then you have what the borders are?
What's his name?

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Oh god, bag Man Homan? Homan, bag Man Homan. We'll
forgive me. I don't mean to be but I mean,
where's the fifty thousand? But like, literally, can't they tell
us where the fifty thousand dollars? That's I mean, I'm
just serious's the fifty thousand questions? It's like, where's the
damn Epstein files? Who's in? And I'm starting to get
into that, like what the hell is that all about? Too?
You can't even swear this person? What the hell is

(01:07:52):
going on? Now? Even if you weren't following this now
you've been like, okay, hold on, why is Glenn Maxwan
a minimum security? What the hell is going on?

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
I've spoken with a lot the victims or the survivors
of Epstein on the podcast, and they said, the strange
thing about it is what the survivors will say, we
weren't even really that focused on Trump, Like that wasn't
why we were He goes, He goes, but he's just
made it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
This is what they'll say.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
He made it about himself. He centered himself as that
this is a fan started.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
I never thought it was. Now I'm actually wondering what
isn't there and now all this tiff I was like that,
I mean I thought about just the tragic. I mean
that just and never forget these poor victims and these
poor souls people that take their life. God bless. But no,
there's there's a there there, undoubtedly, and we.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Know from all of the reporting out there that his
name is all over those files apparently, and that he
was told that anyway, Well, that'll be our next interview.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
After the man. There's no issues there. I know everyone
that we're talking about. Look it up. Look it up.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
So this is obviously part of a broader strategy to intimidate,
to make people not show up to the polls. Obviously,
they tried to flood the zone right away saying that
Prop fifty was unpopular. They pushed it, but you pushed
back right away, put hand and right away, and that
was a fight. And people still obviously need to go

(01:09:20):
out there and then turn in the ballot. You know,
home stretch work harder than ever but they're looking at
Virginia and they're seeing uh Spanberger and what a great
campaign she's run versus Winsome Earl series Mikey. I mean,
she's Mikey also has been amazing in New Jersey. So
they're targeting those areas, you know, for a reason, and

(01:09:40):
it's part of a broader intimidation campaign.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
Yeah. So it's so begs the question. I mean, we
have these campaigns, we have their campaigns. Are you of
the opinion that November fourth it's going to be a
big night for Democrats, that it could create some directional momentum,
some enthusiasm potentially for the party, a sense that sort
of we're on the precipice of turning the page, or

(01:10:04):
have turned the page, or turning the corner. In terms
of being on the march, I mean the seventh I
love that you said the No King's Peaceful Rally. Thank
you for the way you framed that seven million people
showed up for each other, not just for themselves, for
their their kids, their communities, for our future, the world.
I mean, in many respects accounts on the United States
as a sustable partner.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
I think we're going to be a peaceful protests in
the history in amazing the United States. And when remember
they did those tea party things back in Obama, there
was like five hundred thousand people who showed up and
that got all the coverage in the world. Yeah, you
just see the difference there. But I think it's going
to be a big day.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
But but you're not there yet. No, no, no, it's
I don't like butts.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
How about and and we need to work and we
need to work very hard. Though I don't want to
take any day for grant. There you go, and I
think that's how I see November fourth, that's how I
see the midterms is. And now we're reporting in our
network in general, it's to always approach every day with
kind of the utmost humility and recognize that, you know,

(01:11:07):
anything can change in any given day. And again, we
just have to win every day from now until then.
And you know, I played soccer in high school and
so you know, just thinking about you know, how a
match is ultimately played. It is even if you're up
you know, two nothing or three nothing at halftime, that
doesn't mean you go, I think we're absolutely you know,

(01:11:28):
you just got to go to locker room and you
got to finish. Even if you're up in the in
the second half, you still gotta, you know, keep going.
And so no matter what I feel good, but feelings
and vibes, we have to manifest the outcomes versus just
believing that there are people out there that'll do. And

(01:11:48):
I think that's something that you've shown and other people.
I hope the Midas Touched network shown that if three
brothers of me, my two brothers, and I'll give a
shout out to my whole team here, Salty and Jeremy
and all the great people, the better give me a
shout out in front of.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Everybody. Anyone my kind of guy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
Yeah, you see Santa Barbera, guys, they see we It
was not a foregone conclusion that three brothers with very
little political experience, zero experience, would no media network experience,
would would be able to manifest this. And so the
message I hope it sends to everybody, whether your skill

(01:12:30):
is an educator, a chef, a songwriter, a builder, whatever
your skill is, a flower maker, whatever, whatever the florist,
flower maker, just do whatever your skill is and contribute
and you can make it, you know, send letters, you know,
show up, you know, knock on doors. The is and

(01:12:51):
you've You've said this a lot, that the future is
something that you manifest and not experience. And we can't
just think that because the American experience has been a
certain way, it will be there for us. This whole
lesson is quite the contrary. And so we each play
our own part every day. That's the mightest touch part
that we've played in our own way, and we can

(01:13:12):
all do little things.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
I love it. I mean, it's yeah, it's spare of
that the future is not something experienced in manifest it's
it's it's inside of us, not in front of us.
So here's to the future. You're crushing a brother. It's
amazing what you built. But what you built is not
just a platform, it's it's it's a capacity. It's it's
given the Democratic Party real hope and sense of momentum

(01:13:39):
that we can finally get back on the messaging side
of this war as well, and that we can communicate
more effectively, we can reach more people and be streach
strategic about it as well. And I just you know,
most folks I know on this podcast know a little
bit about you guys, but I don't think they appreciate

(01:13:59):
how how you are crushing it and how you're completely
reinventing the game for the pro democracy folks out there,
and so just mad respect to you. Keep it up
to salty. Thank you, brother Ben. It's been a hell
of a conversation. I really appreciate it. Thank you guys,

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}And, This Is Flooding The Zone With Truth Ft. Ben Meiselas of MeidasTouch