June 6, 2025 • 26 mins
In our continued conversation with Dr. Phil we discuss book bans, youth sports and how he left Hollywood.
IG: @ThisisGavinNewsom
Email: ThisisGavinNewsom@iheartradio.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is Gavin Newsom and tune in for more with
Doctor Phil. Well, look, I appreciate everything you said, but
I also appreciate the spirit, uh that that behind it,
and I think, look, it's one of the reasons we
started this podcast, and it's been really interesting, doctor Phil.
(00:29):
It's really underscored the nature and you've talked a lot
about cancel culture and this incapacity to to to be
willing to engage people you may disagree with and and
as you say, focus on the things we have in common.
But it's interesting how quick people are to judge, and
how quickly we are all judged. I imagine just the
response you got coming out of that Madison Square Garden rally.
(00:54):
I imagine just now you're sort of foray with ice
and maybe just a little bit more into the political realm,
how quick people are to judge. And so I think
it's incredibly important because divorce is not an option. We're
all in this together, and you know, it's becoming more
and more exhausting, and as you have rightfully highlighted you
(01:17):
did it in your book. We've got issues the nature
of social media and algorithms and what's going on in
terms of how things have become weaponized, and how we
are increasingly feeling out of control, isolated, disconnected from a
larger sense of purpose, Meaning all the things you've been
talking about in your show and the work you've been doing,
and so just on that, what more can we be doing,
(01:39):
What can we be doing to soften the edges of
this discourse and begin the process of being repairs proverbially
the breach.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Do you think freedom of speech is under attack?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I think it is. And I've made this point. One
of the reasons I have long admired Bill Maher and
gone on a show a dozen times since my mayor
days is I didn't like the way he was being
attacked the freedom of speech, his expression was being attacked
in my own UC campuses. I've watched cancel culture, never
(02:12):
been a champion of cancel culture. Of course, I've seen
it on all sides. We saw with bud Light, we
saw it with Target last year. You know, it occurs.
You know there's boycotts all the time, coming from both
prisms and the political parties. But I think I think
it's out of control, and I think it's something we
need to push back again. So we need to own
up to.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, it seems to be worse in California than you know.
I've moved back to Texas, and you know, no place
is perfect. But I see things like, what was it
Berkeley where Ann Coulter got canceled? They said it was
for security concerns. You can always have security.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
But that my litt guy, I can't remember his name.
I remember sort of the peak of that cancer culture.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
You know, why do you think that is? When I
went to school a long time ago, but we always
if somebody was coming that we disagreed with, I always
wanted to go here what they had to say, so
I had ammunition to debate them with or their positions with.
(03:22):
And you never grow until you disprove yourself, until you
find something wrong with the way you look at it.
But it seems like in California we've got the Heckler's veto.
It's like boo them down or block them from coming.
And I see it at Berkeley, U C, L a
(03:45):
USC and it just seems like, how are we ever
going to broaden our perspectives? If we don't get out
of the bubble and at least listen to the other side,
you may find out that's exactly why I don't agree
with that, sob exactly how to hear them to do it.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I couldn't agree with you. More needs to be called out.
I've been trying to do what I can on that.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I mean, be candidate.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
That's why I've been calling out all these book bands.
Two hundred and forty books and titles were banned last
year in this country. I mean, we're censoring, you know,
speech in the boardroom, not just in the classroom. You've
got folks are rewriting history. You've talked a lot about that,
but on both sides of the aisle. I mean they
were trying to One textbook in Florida tried to take
(04:30):
out Rosa Park's race and said, oh no, she was
just a woman who wanted to move, needed to move
her seat. So I think we have to own up
to this. And I think again, there's plenty of plenty
of fingers point or at least twenty people that we
can point to, but all of us need to look
in the mirror on this issue.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I agree with you as California taking a position on
transgender athletes. I hadn't seen what the latest.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Well it did in twenty and thirteen ind Team Governor
Brown signed a bill allowing for people to participate. As
you know, that issue is very raw and emotional, and
it's obviously very pointed this moment because of some state championships.
(05:16):
There was two bills in the California legislature, doctor Phil
just a few weeks ago. Neither got out of the
committee to change that rule, so it currently is law
in the state of California and cif that that does
the innercollegiate founded, you know, does all the sports. They're
(05:37):
trying to find some accommodation that addresses the legitimate concerns
around fairness and I say legitimate concerns about fairness and
make sure that those that may have been displaced because
they were outperformed by a transgender athlete I have the
opportunity to still participate and be recognized for that participation.
(06:02):
We're also just trying to balance some grace, some humility,
some humanity, particularly with transgender youth that just want to
survive and don't want to be belittled and demeaned at
the same time. So a very tough issue, and I
know you've tackled that issue. I think you've done it
reasonably thoughtfully. I think you've tried to find the nuances here,
(06:24):
but it's incredibly difficult issue. And I say this as
someone who's been an advocate for trans writes, but I
do not think it's fair these athletic competitions, and I've
made that point of view very very public Well.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
This is one of the things where I say that
I believe that activists are pushing an agenda. And I've
had so many transgender individuals on the show over the
last twenty five years, and I can tell you that
(07:02):
they have said to me on the air and off
mostly off the air, that they'd wish those people would
shut up. These shrill activists that are pushing these extreme positions.
They're not speaking for us, they're not speaking for the
(07:23):
community at large. And they say, look, we're living our
lives and there are enough challenges as it is without
them pushing these extreme controversial issues that we don't particularly
ascribe to. They're not helping us. That's something that they
(07:49):
are just trying to rewrite biology on or they're trying
to make a battleground, and they do it effectively. I
had Professor Carol Hooven on from university at Harvard University
and She didn't even do the research. She was just reporting.
(08:13):
Did a meta analysis on I think it was fifty
plus studies of others that had looked at the biological
markers to see whether or not you could balance the
playing field among elit athletes. And she looked at if
(08:36):
you have testosterone blockers, if you have hormone suppression therapy,
and for the required two years before and after poverty,
looked puberty, looked at every possible way, and the meta
conclusion for good methodology, with good in right number of subjects,
(09:01):
and they concluded you just can't get there. You, I mean,
even if it's ten percent difference in swimming competition among
the lead athletes as you know everything, they measure that
by hundreds of a second off a fingernail touching the wall. Uh,
and in a four lap race ten percent. They can
(09:24):
be down there kicking off the wall and they're standing
there with their arms crossed waiting for him to make
the last lamp.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Now, it wasn't one of the what wasn't, And forgive me,
it wasn't. She admonished by the administration over there as
well for just concluding.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Those completely driven down of the university. Yeah, they're transphobic, Yeah,
spawning hate speech.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, we had well, doctor, I trust me, I know
a thing or two about this. I expressed my point
of view. I lost a few. I don't need to
went on the public therapy session here, but I lost
some good friends. I mean they're just then won't talk
to me. They're done, And you know, I appreciate they
felt hurt. They felt that point of view was, you know,
(10:08):
somehow diminishing. I I someone has been an advocate that
I put up against any other elected official. I mean,
I have a very strong record, as you know. I
think the first time I was on your show, it
was was on the issue of lgbt rights, and I've
been an advocate for decades and decades, but on the
issue of sports and and what you just you know,
(10:29):
you laid out as it relates to many different factors
that are unique and regardless of puberty blockers. I just
think this issue we have to address and h and
to not address, we are in denial.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Well that's a good point, because I remember when you
were there and you and I agreed on that we
were both advocates for LGBTQ rights. But this is this
is a bridge too far. This is you have these
these elite athletes. These are kids that get up oftentimes
(11:07):
an hour or two before school. I mean they're up
at four and five o'clock in the morning working out
before school four years oh yeah, and then all of
a sudden somebody steps in and bumps them out of
the competition, and it's I hate to see that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Well, which I got four young kids, all athletes, wife
who has played for the junior national soccer team. I
got into college, only got into a four year college
because of sports. And it's many ways the reason I'm here.
So I deeply appreciate how resident this issue and passionate
(11:44):
this issue is. At the same time, you know, it's
I humbly submit doctor that I think it's been weaponized
by some groups. I'm not suggesting by any stretch you have.
I think I've listened to you on this topic, and
I think you've tried to be very thoughtful on it.
Other though, are a little less thoughtful and have used
this in a way that I don't think advanced the
(12:05):
larger call that I think you and I are calling for.
Just that's just finding our common humanity and try to
unify with as you suggest common sense.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, And the sad thing is, I think you've it's
kind of identity politics. If you don't agree with everything,
you're immediately labeled transphobic. And I think they lose some
very strong advocates by throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Well, and I'd be in that category. And anyone who
suggests that that is they don't know who I am,
what I've done, And so I'm very sensitive the point
you just made, and I certainly appreciate it, just on
the issues of broader issues that I think just in
(12:55):
the spirit of this conversation, you know, when you wrote
this book, We've Got issues, what was was this was
this sort of the gateway to the new media a company?
Was this sort of the transition book? What I mean,
you haven't transitioned on your passion for family as sort
of the core unit. Uh and and faith as well,
(13:19):
which I appreciate your commitment to faith, including your new
role under the Trump administration. Just tell us a little
bit more in the spirit of of of that book,
what we what we were trying to achieve.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
You know, I I've I've always thought, you know, it's
funny they they talk about the general category of talk show,
and it's it's really interesting that it's if you're going
to be successful, they really should probably call it listening show,
(13:54):
because if you don't listen to your audience and let
them tell you what you need to focus on, you're
not going to last very long. And we always refer
to Hollywood is a thirteen week town, and if you
get thirteenth weeks in Hollywood, you're lucky. And you know,
(14:20):
I was on for twenty one years, and they wanted
me to renew for three more. When I said no,
I'm going to go do my own thing, and there
was a difference because a cross those twenty one years.
Very unusually, I owned my own show, which is you
(14:41):
probably know that's very rare in Hollywood. The network likes
to own the show. But I owned my own show.
So I did thirty eight hundred shows and I owned
them lock Stock and Beryl, so that whole library is
something I own, and most of those shows are pretty
evergreen and across time. I had a great staff, and
(15:09):
for the whole twenty one years, I had one executive producer.
I had you know, five supervising producers that were there
pretty much the whole time. I had the same seven
cameramen for twenty one years. For god, I've had the
(15:30):
same secretary or they changed what they call them across
the years. She's been with me forty five years, So
I mean I've had the same team around me. I'm
so blessed to have them. And things change, Governor, think
about this. I started in two and the first text
(15:51):
message had never been sent when I started. And think
how much things have changed in like nine is when
they started dropping smartphones on all of us. And I
think that's the biggest change in our civilization since the
Industrial Revolution. And I know there were kind of four
(16:15):
industrial revolutions kind of jammed together there, but I think
this was the biggest change since mechanization.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And by the way, just speaking of jam together, I
remember being jammed together right there at the Moscone Center
in San Francisco in January of two thousand and seven
when Steve Jobs comes out with some damn device. Little
did we know, but what hit I'll never forget. It
wasn't the device. It was that damn app store in
July of two thousand and eight, that, to your point,
(16:45):
changed everything in more ways.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
On more days, well, you know, kids were going through
life like this, and then all of a sudden, they
were going through like this.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I and we listen, and for example, the words cyber
and bully had never been used together in the same
sentence because there was no such thing. And then all
of a sudden, I had to start dealing with cyber bullying.
And in fact, I went to Capitol Hill. They asked
(17:19):
me to come testify on reauthorization of the Elementary and
Secondary Education Act, and a lot of my testimony was about,
you have to start allocating some funds to dealing with
cyber bullying because it's become Bullies used to be in
the lunch room or the gym or the bus docks,
(17:42):
but now these bullies follow the children home. They can't
get away from it. And we have to start educating
our teachers and start making preparations to deal with this
because kids are killing themselves and online predators are getting
(18:02):
to our children. And so, you know, it started evolving
and changing, and and I had to evolve and change
with it. And I remember the first interview I ever
gave about the doctor phil Show, Roger King, who was,
you know, the biggest force in syndication. He asked me
one day, without giving me any warning, he's going to
(18:24):
make a sizzle reel to go out and sell the show.
And he said, okay, Doc, what's the show going to
be about? And I'm like a little caught short. And
I remember saying, I'm going to talk about things that
matter to people who care. And I wanted to deliver
(18:48):
common sense, usable information to people's homes every day for free.
And ir'd argue with that, if that doesn't work, then
I was busy when you when you called me, you know,
I have and and I followed that formula all along,
(19:10):
and when I got when I sat down to write
We've Got Issues, it was in reaction to hearing my
audience move. I think that's my eleventh book or tenth book.
I said I was going to write another book, and
(19:31):
then I wrote that one, and it was from listening
to them, and they were becoming much more socially conscious.
Whereas you know, early on I was focusing on marriage
and family and individual psychological functioning and all of those
(19:52):
sorts of individual issues. But I saw it changed to
start to include things like cyberbullying and predators and online
scams and things like that. And then of late I
saw him start to really become much more socially conscious
(20:13):
about psychosocial issues. And I think it's because they were
on the internet all the time. They were reading things that,
you know, eight nine years earlier, they just weren't available
to read. And that's when I say, I started being
aware that like some let's say you had some crazy
(20:35):
conspiracy theories some guy in Omaha or something, well, that
wouldn't spread very far because he didn't have the ability
to reach anyone. But it's estimated right now that there
are between five and ten thousand cults acting in the
United States of America because they operate online, they solicit
(20:58):
money online, they get follows online. Then they might have
an annual meeting and recruit people in the real world
to come to some compound or whatever. And so I
started seeing how people were concerned about what was going
on at school and what was being taught at school.
(21:22):
Was critical race theory being taught, should it be taught,
Should parents be notified if their children were wanting to
change their pronouns? And there were pros and cons about that.
I think parents know their kids the best and deserve
(21:43):
to know what's going on with them. But people react
to that, like there's this massive movement in the schools
to recruit people children into transgenderism. That's just not true.
(22:04):
It is a minuscule number of cases in which is happening,
and they talk like there's this huge recruitment. It isn't true.
I do think parents should be involved, and those on
the other side of the issue say, well, there are
(22:25):
a lot of parents who don't react well to that,
and so the kids can get kicked to the curb
or whatever if they take that home. Well, that's why
we have the Department of Child and Family Services, That's
why we have these social services to support that if
they got some mouth breather parent who doesn't stand by
(22:48):
their child or whatever. So there are two sides to
the issue. I get that. But they weren't talking about
these things before for and now they were, and that's
that's what moved me to us. We've got issues. We've
got issues and what's going on in the school. We've
(23:10):
got issues regarding our economy, and people talk about we
have this inequality of income. I think the problem is
we have a quality of income. If you look at
all the giveaway programs and I hear people talking about
they want a quality of outcome, the quality of opportunity.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah no, those are things that found me out on
the outcome side. Yeah No, it's about the opportunity. We
can talk about some of the tax breaks as well,
some of the carried interest is on those subsidies as well. Look,
there's so much doctor to talk about, and I appreciate
(23:55):
the spirit to which you've engaged with me in our eyes.
And one of the things I loved about your book,
which I did have a chance to read. But more importantly,
there's a lot of good life lessons in there. And
one of the one of those statements that you made
in the book that sort of spoke to me is
be who you are on purpose, which is a good
(24:17):
way to describe you, this notion of intentionality. But I
think that's an important life lesson is to be authentic,
learn from don't follow others, have some humility and grace,
but stand on your ground, but also recognize we need
to find common ground. And I hope we found a
little bit today and I appreciate your efforts to try
(24:39):
to find more of that with Merritt Street Media.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Well, I appreciate having the opportunity to talk about these things.
I think, like I say, you and I might be
on the different side of certain issues and the same
side on certain issues, but I think if people could
sit down and have civil conversations like this, I mean,
that's what it's all about. To me. I think it's
(25:05):
important to do and I'm I'm glad you're doing this podcast.
I think people get to hear from you and get
to know you better, and I think it's I think
people are interested in doing that and in knowing you,
and I think it's a courageous thing to do, because
when you open up an unscripted conversation like this, that's
(25:28):
a that's a courageous thing to do. It's not campaign speak,
it's it's just it's just letting people get to know you.
And you dodged my question. Are you going to run
in twenty.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Eight that's face will determine that. But we'll see doctor.
I'mse you know better than anybody as a former California residence.
I got my hand full in the next year and
a half couple of years.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
You're not ruling it out, I don't.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I mean, you're not rolling anything out out about your
future either, So we'll leave it at that. I appreciate
you spend any time and UH, and I'm very grateful,
particularly uh, particularly considering where the heck you are, UH
and all the other folks that are there that are
buying for your time and attention. So thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Anytime, anytime I can spend time with you, I'm I'm
proud to do it, on here to do it and UH.
I'll be inviting you to be on my podcast soon
and we'll talk about that and UH and have you
weigh in on some uh some big issues. And I
hope we can do I hope we can do this
again and do it soon.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I look forward to it.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Thank you so much, Governor, Thank you best to you
This is Gavin Newsom and tune in for more with
Doctor Phil. Well, look, I appreciate everything you said, but
I also appreciate the spirit, uh that that behind it,
and I think, look, it's one of the reasons we
started this podcast, and it's been really interesting, doctor Phil.
(00:29):
It's really underscored the nature and you've talked a lot
about cancel culture and this incapacity to to to be
willing to engage people you may disagree with and and
as you say, focus on the things we have in common.
But it's interesting how quick people are to judge, and
how quickly we are all judged. I imagine just the
response you got coming out of that Madison Square Garden rally.
(00:54):
I imagine just now you're sort of foray with ice
and maybe just a little bit more into the political realm,
how quick people are to judge. And so I think
it's incredibly important because divorce is not an option. We're
all in this together, and you know, it's becoming more
and more exhausting, and as you have rightfully highlighted you
(01:17):
did it in your book. We've got issues the nature
of social media and algorithms and what's going on in
terms of how things have become weaponized, and how we
are increasingly feeling out of control, isolated, disconnected from a
larger sense of purpose, Meaning all the things you've been
talking about in your show and the work you've been doing,
and so just on that, what more can we be doing,
(01:39):
What can we be doing to soften the edges of
this discourse and begin the process of being repairs proverbially
the breach.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Do you think freedom of speech is under attack?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I think it is. And I've made this point. One
of the reasons I have long admired Bill Maher and
gone on a show a dozen times since my mayor
days is I didn't like the way he was being
attacked the freedom of speech, his expression was being attacked
in my own UC campuses. I've watched cancel culture, never
(02:12):
been a champion of cancel culture. Of course, I've seen
it on all sides. We saw with bud Light, we
saw it with Target last year. You know, it occurs.
You know there's boycotts all the time, coming from both
prisms and the political parties. But I think I think
it's out of control, and I think it's something we
need to push back again. So we need to own
up to.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, it seems to be worse in California than you know.
I've moved back to Texas, and you know, no place
is perfect. But I see things like, what was it
Berkeley where Ann Coulter got canceled? They said it was
for security concerns. You can always have security.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
But that my litt guy, I can't remember his name.
I remember sort of the peak of that cancer culture.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
You know, why do you think that is? When I
went to school a long time ago, but we always
if somebody was coming that we disagreed with, I always
wanted to go here what they had to say, so
I had ammunition to debate them with or their positions with.
(03:22):
And you never grow until you disprove yourself, until you
find something wrong with the way you look at it.
But it seems like in California we've got the Heckler's veto.
It's like boo them down or block them from coming.
And I see it at Berkeley, U C, L a
(03:45):
USC and it just seems like, how are we ever
going to broaden our perspectives? If we don't get out
of the bubble and at least listen to the other side,
you may find out that's exactly why I don't agree
with that, sob exactly how to hear them to do it.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I couldn't agree with you. More needs to be called out.
I've been trying to do what I can on that.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I mean, be candidate.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
That's why I've been calling out all these book bands.
Two hundred and forty books and titles were banned last
year in this country. I mean, we're censoring, you know,
speech in the boardroom, not just in the classroom. You've
got folks are rewriting history. You've talked a lot about that,
but on both sides of the aisle. I mean they
were trying to One textbook in Florida tried to take
(04:30):
out Rosa Park's race and said, oh no, she was
just a woman who wanted to move, needed to move
her seat. So I think we have to own up
to this. And I think again, there's plenty of plenty
of fingers point or at least twenty people that we
can point to, but all of us need to look
in the mirror on this issue.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I agree with you as California taking a position on
transgender athletes. I hadn't seen what the latest.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Well it did in twenty and thirteen ind Team Governor
Brown signed a bill allowing for people to participate. As
you know, that issue is very raw and emotional, and
it's obviously very pointed this moment because of some state championships.
(05:16):
There was two bills in the California legislature, doctor Phil
just a few weeks ago. Neither got out of the
committee to change that rule, so it currently is law
in the state of California and cif that that does
the innercollegiate founded, you know, does all the sports. They're
(05:37):
trying to find some accommodation that addresses the legitimate concerns
around fairness and I say legitimate concerns about fairness and
make sure that those that may have been displaced because
they were outperformed by a transgender athlete I have the
opportunity to still participate and be recognized for that participation.
(06:02):
We're also just trying to balance some grace, some humility,
some humanity, particularly with transgender youth that just want to
survive and don't want to be belittled and demeaned at
the same time. So a very tough issue, and I
know you've tackled that issue. I think you've done it
reasonably thoughtfully. I think you've tried to find the nuances here,
(06:24):
but it's incredibly difficult issue. And I say this as
someone who's been an advocate for trans writes, but I
do not think it's fair these athletic competitions, and I've
made that point of view very very public Well.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
This is one of the things where I say that
I believe that activists are pushing an agenda. And I've
had so many transgender individuals on the show over the
last twenty five years, and I can tell you that
(07:02):
they have said to me on the air and off
mostly off the air, that they'd wish those people would
shut up. These shrill activists that are pushing these extreme positions.
They're not speaking for us, they're not speaking for the
(07:23):
community at large. And they say, look, we're living our
lives and there are enough challenges as it is without
them pushing these extreme controversial issues that we don't particularly
ascribe to. They're not helping us. That's something that they
(07:49):
are just trying to rewrite biology on or they're trying
to make a battleground, and they do it effectively. I
had Professor Carol Hooven on from university at Harvard University
and She didn't even do the research. She was just reporting.
(08:13):
Did a meta analysis on I think it was fifty
plus studies of others that had looked at the biological
markers to see whether or not you could balance the
playing field among elit athletes. And she looked at if
(08:36):
you have testosterone blockers, if you have hormone suppression therapy,
and for the required two years before and after poverty,
looked puberty, looked at every possible way, and the meta
conclusion for good methodology, with good in right number of subjects,
(09:01):
and they concluded you just can't get there. You, I mean,
even if it's ten percent difference in swimming competition among
the lead athletes as you know everything, they measure that
by hundreds of a second off a fingernail touching the wall. Uh,
and in a four lap race ten percent. They can
(09:24):
be down there kicking off the wall and they're standing
there with their arms crossed waiting for him to make
the last lamp.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Now, it wasn't one of the what wasn't, And forgive me,
it wasn't. She admonished by the administration over there as
well for just concluding.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Those completely driven down of the university. Yeah, they're transphobic, Yeah,
spawning hate speech.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, we had well, doctor, I trust me, I know
a thing or two about this. I expressed my point
of view. I lost a few. I don't need to
went on the public therapy session here, but I lost
some good friends. I mean they're just then won't talk
to me. They're done, And you know, I appreciate they
felt hurt. They felt that point of view was, you know,
(10:08):
somehow diminishing. I I someone has been an advocate that
I put up against any other elected official. I mean,
I have a very strong record, as you know. I
think the first time I was on your show, it
was was on the issue of lgbt rights, and I've
been an advocate for decades and decades, but on the
issue of sports and and what you just you know,
(10:29):
you laid out as it relates to many different factors
that are unique and regardless of puberty blockers. I just
think this issue we have to address and h and
to not address, we are in denial.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Well that's a good point, because I remember when you
were there and you and I agreed on that we
were both advocates for LGBTQ rights. But this is this
is a bridge too far. This is you have these
these elite athletes. These are kids that get up oftentimes
(11:07):
an hour or two before school. I mean they're up
at four and five o'clock in the morning working out
before school four years oh yeah, and then all of
a sudden somebody steps in and bumps them out of
the competition, and it's I hate to see that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Well, which I got four young kids, all athletes, wife
who has played for the junior national soccer team. I
got into college, only got into a four year college
because of sports. And it's many ways the reason I'm here.
So I deeply appreciate how resident this issue and passionate
(11:44):
this issue is. At the same time, you know, it's
I humbly submit doctor that I think it's been weaponized
by some groups. I'm not suggesting by any stretch you have.
I think I've listened to you on this topic, and
I think you've tried to be very thoughtful on it.
Other though, are a little less thoughtful and have used
this in a way that I don't think advanced the
(12:05):
larger call that I think you and I are calling for.
Just that's just finding our common humanity and try to
unify with as you suggest common sense.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, And the sad thing is, I think you've it's
kind of identity politics. If you don't agree with everything,
you're immediately labeled transphobic. And I think they lose some
very strong advocates by throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Well, and I'd be in that category. And anyone who
suggests that that is they don't know who I am,
what I've done, And so I'm very sensitive the point
you just made, and I certainly appreciate it, just on
the issues of broader issues that I think just in
(12:55):
the spirit of this conversation, you know, when you wrote
this book, We've Got issues, what was was this was
this sort of the gateway to the new media a company?
Was this sort of the transition book? What I mean,
you haven't transitioned on your passion for family as sort
of the core unit. Uh and and faith as well,
(13:19):
which I appreciate your commitment to faith, including your new
role under the Trump administration. Just tell us a little
bit more in the spirit of of of that book,
what we what we were trying to achieve.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
You know, I I've I've always thought, you know, it's
funny they they talk about the general category of talk show,
and it's it's really interesting that it's if you're going
to be successful, they really should probably call it listening show,
(13:54):
because if you don't listen to your audience and let
them tell you what you need to focus on, you're
not going to last very long. And we always refer
to Hollywood is a thirteen week town, and if you
get thirteenth weeks in Hollywood, you're lucky. And you know,
(14:20):
I was on for twenty one years, and they wanted
me to renew for three more. When I said no,
I'm going to go do my own thing, and there
was a difference because a cross those twenty one years.
Very unusually, I owned my own show, which is you
(14:41):
probably know that's very rare in Hollywood. The network likes
to own the show. But I owned my own show.
So I did thirty eight hundred shows and I owned
them lock Stock and Beryl, so that whole library is
something I own, and most of those shows are pretty
evergreen and across time. I had a great staff, and
(15:09):
for the whole twenty one years, I had one executive producer.
I had you know, five supervising producers that were there
pretty much the whole time. I had the same seven
cameramen for twenty one years. For god, I've had the
(15:30):
same secretary or they changed what they call them across
the years. She's been with me forty five years, So
I mean I've had the same team around me. I'm
so blessed to have them. And things change, Governor, think
about this. I started in two and the first text
(15:51):
message had never been sent when I started. And think
how much things have changed in like nine is when
they started dropping smartphones on all of us. And I
think that's the biggest change in our civilization since the
Industrial Revolution. And I know there were kind of four
(16:15):
industrial revolutions kind of jammed together there, but I think
this was the biggest change since mechanization.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And by the way, just speaking of jam together, I
remember being jammed together right there at the Moscone Center
in San Francisco in January of two thousand and seven
when Steve Jobs comes out with some damn device. Little
did we know, but what hit I'll never forget. It
wasn't the device. It was that damn app store in
July of two thousand and eight, that, to your point,
(16:45):
changed everything in more ways.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
On more days, well, you know, kids were going through
life like this, and then all of a sudden, they
were going through like this.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I and we listen, and for example, the words cyber
and bully had never been used together in the same
sentence because there was no such thing. And then all
of a sudden, I had to start dealing with cyber bullying.
And in fact, I went to Capitol Hill. They asked
(17:19):
me to come testify on reauthorization of the Elementary and
Secondary Education Act, and a lot of my testimony was about,
you have to start allocating some funds to dealing with
cyber bullying because it's become Bullies used to be in
the lunch room or the gym or the bus docks,
(17:42):
but now these bullies follow the children home. They can't
get away from it. And we have to start educating
our teachers and start making preparations to deal with this
because kids are killing themselves and online predators are getting
(18:02):
to our children. And so, you know, it started evolving
and changing, and and I had to evolve and change
with it. And I remember the first interview I ever
gave about the doctor phil Show, Roger King, who was,
you know, the biggest force in syndication. He asked me
one day, without giving me any warning, he's going to
(18:24):
make a sizzle reel to go out and sell the show.
And he said, okay, Doc, what's the show going to
be about? And I'm like a little caught short. And
I remember saying, I'm going to talk about things that
matter to people who care. And I wanted to deliver
(18:48):
common sense, usable information to people's homes every day for free.
And ir'd argue with that, if that doesn't work, then
I was busy when you when you called me, you know,
I have and and I followed that formula all along,
(19:10):
and when I got when I sat down to write
We've Got Issues, it was in reaction to hearing my
audience move. I think that's my eleventh book or tenth book.
I said I was going to write another book, and
(19:31):
then I wrote that one, and it was from listening
to them, and they were becoming much more socially conscious.
Whereas you know, early on I was focusing on marriage
and family and individual psychological functioning and all of those
(19:52):
sorts of individual issues. But I saw it changed to
start to include things like cyberbullying and predators and online
scams and things like that. And then of late I
saw him start to really become much more socially conscious
(20:13):
about psychosocial issues. And I think it's because they were
on the internet all the time. They were reading things that,
you know, eight nine years earlier, they just weren't available
to read. And that's when I say, I started being
aware that like some let's say you had some crazy
(20:35):
conspiracy theories some guy in Omaha or something, well, that
wouldn't spread very far because he didn't have the ability
to reach anyone. But it's estimated right now that there
are between five and ten thousand cults acting in the
United States of America because they operate online, they solicit
(20:58):
money online, they get follows online. Then they might have
an annual meeting and recruit people in the real world
to come to some compound or whatever. And so I
started seeing how people were concerned about what was going
on at school and what was being taught at school.
(21:22):
Was critical race theory being taught, should it be taught,
Should parents be notified if their children were wanting to
change their pronouns? And there were pros and cons about that.
I think parents know their kids the best and deserve
(21:43):
to know what's going on with them. But people react
to that, like there's this massive movement in the schools
to recruit people children into transgenderism. That's just not true.
(22:04):
It is a minuscule number of cases in which is happening,
and they talk like there's this huge recruitment. It isn't true.
I do think parents should be involved, and those on
the other side of the issue say, well, there are
(22:25):
a lot of parents who don't react well to that,
and so the kids can get kicked to the curb
or whatever if they take that home. Well, that's why
we have the Department of Child and Family Services, That's
why we have these social services to support that if
they got some mouth breather parent who doesn't stand by
(22:48):
their child or whatever. So there are two sides to
the issue. I get that. But they weren't talking about
these things before for and now they were, and that's
that's what moved me to us. We've got issues. We've
got issues and what's going on in the school. We've
(23:10):
got issues regarding our economy, and people talk about we
have this inequality of income. I think the problem is
we have a quality of income. If you look at
all the giveaway programs and I hear people talking about
they want a quality of outcome, the quality of opportunity.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah no, those are things that found me out on
the outcome side. Yeah No, it's about the opportunity. We
can talk about some of the tax breaks as well,
some of the carried interest is on those subsidies as well. Look,
there's so much doctor to talk about, and I appreciate
(23:55):
the spirit to which you've engaged with me in our eyes.
And one of the things I loved about your book,
which I did have a chance to read. But more importantly,
there's a lot of good life lessons in there. And
one of the one of those statements that you made
in the book that sort of spoke to me is
be who you are on purpose, which is a good
(24:17):
way to describe you, this notion of intentionality. But I
think that's an important life lesson is to be authentic,
learn from don't follow others, have some humility and grace,
but stand on your ground, but also recognize we need
to find common ground. And I hope we found a
little bit today and I appreciate your efforts to try
(24:39):
to find more of that with Merritt Street Media.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Well, I appreciate having the opportunity to talk about these things.
I think, like I say, you and I might be
on the different side of certain issues and the same
side on certain issues, but I think if people could
sit down and have civil conversations like this, I mean,
that's what it's all about. To me. I think it's
(25:05):
important to do and I'm I'm glad you're doing this podcast.
I think people get to hear from you and get
to know you better, and I think it's I think
people are interested in doing that and in knowing you,
and I think it's a courageous thing to do, because
when you open up an unscripted conversation like this, that's
(25:28):
a that's a courageous thing to do. It's not campaign speak,
it's it's just it's just letting people get to know you.
And you dodged my question. Are you going to run
in twenty.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Eight that's face will determine that. But we'll see doctor.
I'mse you know better than anybody as a former California residence.
I got my hand full in the next year and
a half couple of years.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
You're not ruling it out, I don't.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I mean, you're not rolling anything out out about your
future either, So we'll leave it at that. I appreciate
you spend any time and UH, and I'm very grateful,
particularly uh, particularly considering where the heck you are, UH
and all the other folks that are there that are
buying for your time and attention. So thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Anytime, anytime I can spend time with you, I'm I'm
proud to do it, on here to do it and UH.
I'll be inviting you to be on my podcast soon
and we'll talk about that and UH and have you
weigh in on some uh some big issues. And I
hope we can do I hope we can do this
again and do it soon.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I look forward to it.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Thank you so much, Governor, Thank you best to you
Host
Gavin Newsom
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