June 27, 2025 • 21 mins
Terry Moran joins the conversation to discuss the lawsuit against Fox News, meeting families hurt by Trump's immigration policies, and what to make of the NYC mayoral race.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is Gavin Newsom.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm still learning the roads here.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
That's good. And by the way, you're in Springfield right now.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I wasn't. I just got back this morning. I drove
back and today DHS announced sixty days and they're gone
for the Haitians. So the families that I met with,
who are you know, law abiding? They're working, they fill
out W two's, they pay taxes, they got Social Security numbers.
The mayor wants them, the governor wants them, the city
(00:38):
council wants some business, church leaders. Trump wants them out
based on a slander of them. And they have sixty
days and they're hiding in their homes. Governor, they are
hiding in their homes. And the baby's twelve hundred babies
born since they've been here. Now the spring Court throws
their fate into doubt.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
It's, you know, good for you forgive me to selfishly
stadi it. It's so often and it's so interesting just
from your prism. Now this this sort of new alignment
with with where you're where, what you're doing. UH, that
you're going back to a story that everybody's moved on from.
UH that was weaponized in a rubric of debates and
(01:21):
a political campaign. Uh, and now reminding everybody of the
human side of all this and the impacts. But it's
what you just said about the mayor and the governor
and the community. Uh, this only reinforces just the absurdity
of this moment.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, and now you're uh fighting back in a really
interesting way. I read the suit, I read the claims
a bunch of questions. But you're suing Fox News. I
assume everybody's watching at this point, and there'll be more coming,
know that.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
So why what's your beef and not well beef is
you know? You can't maliciously slander someone. You can't defame
someone by altering facts, editing facts, no, doing that without
being held to some higher level of ethics and accountability.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I have no problem.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Look, we all know Fox is a propaganda network, but
it's under the guys of being a news organization, being journalists,
and there's rules of engagement as it relates to that.
And you know, he Donald Trump and I had a
phone call on June sixth, early morning, maybe June seventh.
Four days later, Donald Trump lied and said, well, we
(02:28):
talked the day before. I highlighted the fact we never
talked the day before Fox decided to cover up for
the president's lie. Uh and they knowingly did that in
a way that defamed and I just think we need
to call that out now. It's it's one thing to
be on the receiving en and I've been on the
receiving that Fox for years and years and years. But
(02:49):
there's red lines, and on this red line that crossed it.
And I want a simple apology. I'm not looking. You know,
you've got to file these in your your own, your
own individual accord. It's you know, the malice is a
high bar. But they're dead to write on this. I mean,
they had a Chiron who said Gavin Lye Trump call.
(03:10):
I mean, so they've got to apologize that they don't.
They need to be held to account and we want
to seek damages.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Right, you're asking for an apology. And seven hundred and
eighty seven million dollars you heard.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
That number before. Where'd that number come from? That's the
that's the dominion lawsuit. And this they reacted to the
dominion lawsuit with a press release that they put out
against this lawsuit that almost was you know, you almost
could have cut and pasted it. And they paid a
big price there. But what they did do is they
didn't fundamentally change their practices. And that's the point. That's
(03:46):
the point of this lawsuit. This money doesn't come to me,
it's not about any of that. This this is charity
goes someplace else. But this is about changing these practices,
these unethical practices.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
And you know, I don't do this lightly.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I got a bunch of calls there, this is actually
why this happened.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
You know, I watched Jesse Waters. I watched John Roberts.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
I mean, that's just straight news John and Jesse tries
to sort herself in that respect. And I got a
bunch of calls, said, why'd you lie about the Trump
call from friends? I said, what do you mean I
lied about it? Just making that up and say, well,
that's not what I'm seeing on Fox. And so I'm
constantly battling that. I'm like, this is doing damage. It
was not just on the sixty five million people and
watched Fox and Fox Business, but hundreds of millions on
(04:30):
social and it was weaponized on the right and it
started to bleed it and and and so for me,
that crossed the line.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And that's why I'm pushing back.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
That is the way that's the system works on that side. Look,
I was obviously in corporate legacy, mainstream media, whatever you want.
I had a great career, loved it. I have nothing
bad to say about my colleagues. But it's like they're
fighting or they're trying to tell the truth blindfolded to
the reality of what's happening to the truth, is what
I would say. It was frustrating being in there because
(05:03):
there Trump has this power of bending reality for people,
and Fox's sister's whole ecosphere assists him in doing that,
and kind of both sides are the kind of vocabulary
that you can use is very difficult to serve the
people with still.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
And it's it's it's look, it's and that's not news
worthy in and of itself. What you said, it's spot on,
but it's really eroding trust and it's hurting our democracy,
and it's it's code read. And you think Fox, who's
just the most blatant and you know, I mean just
(05:45):
notoriously the most blatant as it relates to being a
propaganda network, would have learned that lesson with that seven
and eighty seven million dollars settlement.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
With dominion.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
But they haven't, and they continue to cover up for
the folly and the lies of this president. And it's
one thing for the president to lie. It did it
just a few months moments ago, quite literally about water
in California.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Again any's obsession. But you don't cover up for that.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
You don't willfully and knowingly and maliciously cover up for
those lies, edit information and alter what you present as
fact and defame people.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
You can't do that.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Is there something about the past few months in this
second term? And I don't want to post facto rationalize
what I did. I wasn't thinking it's too much. It's
the straw that breaks the camel's back. I thought I
was describing accurately a public figure in America.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
By the way, a few words rung more true than
those words. Forgive me. That's just my editorial opinion, all right.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
And I actually was worse is it wasn't like a
drug tweet. I actually looked at it and I read it. Yeah,
that's true, it's sin. There you go. But my point
is that there is this hammer blow, this daily bludgeoning
of the body politic with cruelty, right and and and
lies at every point demoralizes people. And I've seen you
(07:16):
over the past couple of years. It seems one of
things I really respected and enjoyed you doing was crossing
over going to Fox and and debating Hannity, you know,
taking them out of having a good debate with DeSantis.
People appreciate that. But there is there something about the
past few months and the Democrats crying out for someone
(07:38):
to do something that is part of the background to
you pulling what is in some ways it's done right
this lawsuit.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah, look back to lawsuit.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
But let me go back almost three years ago today,
because we just celebrated and not celebrated. We lamented the
anniversary of the Dobbs decision three years ago. And I
remember being a playing parata in southern California in La say,
where the hell is my party? And it was an
indictment of individual leaders. It wasn't even indictment of the
you know, the DNC. It was sort of, frankly, it
(08:08):
was dting on my own lack of accountability. At this
moment that the other side was dominating the narrative on
CRT and DEI ESG. They were censoring and historic facts,
rewriting history quite literally rewriting social studies books and places
like Florida. And I was watching the weaponization and the
propaganda coming from these networks, not just Fox One, American News, Newsmax,
(08:33):
and how they're able to shapeshift the conversation, and how
my party, the Democratic Party, was consistently on the defense.
And that's where I woke up. I said, you know what,
the world we're living in has happened on our watch.
Society becomes how we behave take some responsibility, man, and
so I decided I needed to actually not just complain
(08:55):
about something. I needed to do something. And that's when
I started to reach out and went on Fox and
I had Hannity.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I said, let's go.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Let's go into Ronald Reagan's old building, the old governor's mansion,
where Reagan was ask me anything you want. Let's do
an unedited hour hour and a half interview. We did that,
and I started to go back on Fox, and that's
why I ended up. And I appreciate your reference to
the debate with Rondo Santis, and so I think that's healthy.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I thought it was a point.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
A lot of my members of my party were critical, saying,
why do you even indulge those guys.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
It's all fake news, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
But I thought it's important to meet people where they are,
so I sail that in the context of this lawsuit,
I have a high threshold for the bullshit on Fox.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Is the point, all right.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I wouldn't do this unless I felt they really did
cross the line, and I don't. It's not about money
for a nonprofit, it's about accountability. I really did hope
and expect after that dominion lawsuit they would stop, but
they haven't. And right now, if you're covering up for
(09:58):
the cruelty, God bless you, that's the right word, not
just the chaos, for the abject lies in mistruths of
this administration, you can't lay claim to being a news
organization any longer. That's what this lawsuits about.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I think that is exactly the conundrum that my former
colleagues and across the establishment legacy, corporate, mainstream media, whatever
you want to call it. They are doing their best.
I love my respect them. They're doing great work. But
there's something that's changed in this moment. It is a
moment in history where it requires a different response. I
(10:38):
think I'm discovering that in myself, and I do think
that I wonder if one of the things you're trying
to do is give heart to people who see this,
who are bludgeoned and either on the sidelines, I don't
want to get involved. They may have even voted for
Trump don't like it, or certainly the people who didn't
(10:59):
vot for Trump feeling in despair. He is all powerful,
controlling the narrative, and now just bring the hammer down
in every walk of life.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
I wish I could show you a video I just
got right before we went on from a friend of
mine down in San Diego. In this young woman torn
away from her car by mass men, screaming and yelling,
turns out to be a housekeeper at a well known
hotel in southern California, a member of Local eleven unit
here just ripped off the streets by mass men. This
(11:36):
is the moral moment. This is happening in America. Have
five thousand federalized troops, the US military in the streets
of Los Angeles in twenty twenty five. Today, I mean,
this is to your point, things have radically changed. You
can't operate with the old constructs people talk about. I heard,
(11:59):
you know, there's been some punitry. You know, we're moving
towards authoritarianism, and it depends which lens, which set of
eyes you have. How About to that young woman on
the street, We're already there. For some of us that
have more privileged we're not there yet. And so I
want to speak for those folks to your point. Yeah,
for things to change, you've got to change. It's not
(12:20):
what happens, it's how we respond to what happens. And
I need to be held to a higher level of accountability.
And so I appreciate the frame of your question. Yeah,
I've changed. I've changed.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I've changed when those National Guard were federalized.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I changed when I started to see members of our
community torn asunder, terrorized by these raids, and people in
masks and things that I've never thought i'd see in
this country, to see people deported, disappeared. I was with
a twelve year old boy, same age as of my kids, crying,
who lost his mother and father they disappeared. They went
(12:56):
to the same job site they've been going to twenty
years in Ox's, California, and he had no one, he
didn't even know get back in his own house. That's
Trump's America. So when you say those words terry about
Stephen Miller, you were goddamn right. Excuse my language, you
were right, and he is wrong, and it's wrong for
(13:16):
us to operate under the old rules. Forgive me for
being intense about this, but a lot of people are
counting us to do more and be better.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I respect that intensity. That's where we have to find
our courage, right, we have to find it there, and
I appreciate what you're saying about that. I will say that,
having just gotten back one of the things, if you
don't mind a personal note, the outpouring of people signing
up for this and actually very very kind and genuine
(13:45):
support for some I didn't, you know, from one perspective,
really screwed up.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
This is not the way I'd recommend leaving a job.
But as I say, I'm kind of exhilarated and excited
by the possibilities and by the work ahead, the good
work that you're talking about ahead. But I do feel
that it became for a lot of people a galvanizing moment, right,
They a sense that, Okay, whatever you think of what
(14:12):
he said, including some of my neighbors, I live in
a kind of a purple neighborhood in Frederick, Maryland, closer
to Antietam and Gettysburg. Then at Washington, d C. And
a lot of my neighbors voted for Trump, and one
of them in particular, you know, very strong for Trump.
He told my wife, he said, tell your husband, you know,
I really respect him. I though what he did was brave.
(14:33):
I mean, you know, look at us at his social feeds.
He loves that. It was very encouraging for me. I
feel very encouraged. But the point of it is, I
think the point the cruelty is the point to dishearten people,
make them amenable to more and more authority. And just
one more note. In Springfield, one of the young Asian
(14:56):
men that I spoke with, he had a brain tumor
in Haiti. They couldn't help him. Came to the United States,
started working, got on Obamacare, got the brain tumor operated on.
But they had to remove his pituitary glands. So he
needs to regulate his hormonal system. If they send him back,
he'll die. And he said, I don't go out of
(15:16):
the house because anyone can wear a mask. Memories from Haiti.
Anyone can wear a mask and put ice on them.
I don't know if they're kidnappers or if they're the law.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
So there are.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Thousands of people hiding in their homes from the federal
government who are were until a couple of weeks ago
here lawfully good employees. You go ask the businesses down there,
the dole plant, automachining plants. You ask the mayor and
the city council. These are good people, the vast majority
of them, and they're hiding from our government. That's to
me a disgrace. It is a disgrace.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
But you've reinforced this point, and I want to amplify
the point I think you're making that the cruelty is
the point, but the point being that that demoralization just
completely neuters us, and we become numb, and we no
longer are active. We're inert, and that is exactly what
(16:08):
he wants. He wants to crush us into submission. He
wants to overwhelm. The shock in eyes about overwhelming us,
and so we cannot maintain neutrality at this time. It
was Dante said, the hottest place in Hell is reserved
at a time more christis for those that maintain their neutrality.
(16:29):
This is not a neutral moment, and I think, look,
this lawsuit, I hope represents just an expression of that
I want both to know we're not just going to
roll over, that We're gonna have people's backs, people that
may not have a voice, people that may not have
the privilege that you and I have to even be
able to go on substack, to be able to have
this conversation, to reach a few people that are kind
(16:50):
enough to take the time to listen to know that
they matter and we care. There are people out there
that give a damn. You gave a damn to go
back to Springfield and checking with people that that that
were used purely as a political you know, political fodder,
that were used as subjects, not human beings, and to
humanize them. Uh, that's important, and it's more important now
(17:14):
than ever. So Look, I think it's in that same
spirit that that that we initiated this lawsuit and same
spirit to which we're pushing back against, uh, these authoritarian
and tendencies and uh and in Trump.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Isn't can I ask you before before we move on
the the New York May Old primary, mc donnie winning
winning and and Cuomo going down to defeat a lot
of Democrats are seeing that as as a signal of
a new direction. A lot of other Democrats are saying
that this is maybe New York City, but it would
(17:47):
not work in other parts of the country. How do
you read that politically?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
I think my my experience in this respect is we
tend to overstate in the short term lessons learned, or
we extrapolite the lessons that frankly just reinforce our own
pre existing biases of.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
What this means or what this doesn't mean.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
But to the credit of man Donnie, this was a
hell of a campaign. I mean, you know, you could
distinguish the message from the messenger, but his ability to
galvanize and to organize, to use the tools of technology.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And new media to create a.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I thought, a personality that even if you disagreed, you
kind of had a little more trust and was rather extraordinary.
And so from that perspective, in the power of emulation
success leaves some clues. Now what this means ultimately for
the Democratic Party, was this really apprediation of Cuomo came
out with a lot of baggage. Was this more parochial
(18:53):
politics in the context of just one American city, though
the largest is to be to turn.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
But I think it's a one thing.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
I think it is is a giant wake up call
that democracy is still alive and well bottom up. And
if you're looking at this for the prism, I think
particularly U Speaker Johnson, you're recognizing you got eighteen months left.
And if you're looking at this, as Susie Wiles, the
chief of staff of the President, your administration ends in
(19:23):
eighteen months. We're going to take back the house. Where
you're seeing young people reawaken here. They haven't gotten the
message about the cynicism yet, they're still engaged. And for me,
that was maybe the most compelling takeaway from what occurred
last week.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Well that that is a great positive, hardening end because
people people are looking for something to look forward to,
the good hard work of saving the country, right.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Saving the kind of look at you know, if it's
what cannot overstate, that's that's simple statement that you just
made Supreme Court, Maate.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
It more challenging today.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Look, we just cannot live in the divided States of
America any longer. Uh you know, I'm sort of paraphrasing
Bill play. You can't divorce is not an option. We're
going to have to find the terms of the future
to live and advance together across our differences. And and
and I think you know, one thing people need to
see is other people's courage. And and for those people
(20:24):
that turned out and voted, uh, that's that's an active citizenship.
And the office of citizen right now is the most
important office of all. And and I think for all
the assaults on institutions, that's the institution that will endure.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
And that's what gives me hope and optimism.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
All right, well, great, thanks, thanks very much. It was
just fun.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
This was fun.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Terry, thanks for having me on and Congress on everything.
Keep doing what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Thank you, thank you, good luck, good luck in court.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Thank you with them
This is Gavin Newsom.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm still learning the roads here.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
That's good. And by the way, you're in Springfield right now.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I wasn't. I just got back this morning. I drove
back and today DHS announced sixty days and they're gone
for the Haitians. So the families that I met with,
who are you know, law abiding? They're working, they fill
out W two's, they pay taxes, they got Social Security numbers.
The mayor wants them, the governor wants them, the city
(00:38):
council wants some business, church leaders. Trump wants them out
based on a slander of them. And they have sixty
days and they're hiding in their homes. Governor, they are
hiding in their homes. And the baby's twelve hundred babies
born since they've been here. Now the spring Court throws
their fate into doubt.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
It's, you know, good for you forgive me to selfishly
stadi it. It's so often and it's so interesting just
from your prism. Now this this sort of new alignment
with with where you're where, what you're doing. UH, that
you're going back to a story that everybody's moved on from.
UH that was weaponized in a rubric of debates and
(01:21):
a political campaign. Uh, and now reminding everybody of the
human side of all this and the impacts. But it's
what you just said about the mayor and the governor
and the community. Uh, this only reinforces just the absurdity
of this moment.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, and now you're uh fighting back in a really
interesting way. I read the suit, I read the claims
a bunch of questions. But you're suing Fox News. I
assume everybody's watching at this point, and there'll be more coming,
know that.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
So why what's your beef and not well beef is
you know? You can't maliciously slander someone. You can't defame
someone by altering facts, editing facts, no, doing that without
being held to some higher level of ethics and accountability.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I have no problem.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Look, we all know Fox is a propaganda network, but
it's under the guys of being a news organization, being journalists,
and there's rules of engagement as it relates to that.
And you know, he Donald Trump and I had a
phone call on June sixth, early morning, maybe June seventh.
Four days later, Donald Trump lied and said, well, we
(02:28):
talked the day before. I highlighted the fact we never
talked the day before Fox decided to cover up for
the president's lie. Uh and they knowingly did that in
a way that defamed and I just think we need
to call that out now. It's it's one thing to
be on the receiving en and I've been on the
receiving that Fox for years and years and years. But
(02:49):
there's red lines, and on this red line that crossed it.
And I want a simple apology. I'm not looking. You know,
you've got to file these in your your own, your
own individual accord. It's you know, the malice is a
high bar. But they're dead to write on this. I mean,
they had a Chiron who said Gavin Lye Trump call.
(03:10):
I mean, so they've got to apologize that they don't.
They need to be held to account and we want
to seek damages.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Right, you're asking for an apology. And seven hundred and
eighty seven million dollars you heard.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
That number before. Where'd that number come from? That's the
that's the dominion lawsuit. And this they reacted to the
dominion lawsuit with a press release that they put out
against this lawsuit that almost was you know, you almost
could have cut and pasted it. And they paid a
big price there. But what they did do is they
didn't fundamentally change their practices. And that's the point. That's
(03:46):
the point of this lawsuit. This money doesn't come to me,
it's not about any of that. This this is charity
goes someplace else. But this is about changing these practices,
these unethical practices.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
And you know, I don't do this lightly.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I got a bunch of calls there, this is actually
why this happened.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
You know, I watched Jesse Waters. I watched John Roberts.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
I mean, that's just straight news John and Jesse tries
to sort herself in that respect. And I got a
bunch of calls, said, why'd you lie about the Trump
call from friends? I said, what do you mean I
lied about it? Just making that up and say, well,
that's not what I'm seeing on Fox. And so I'm
constantly battling that. I'm like, this is doing damage. It
was not just on the sixty five million people and
watched Fox and Fox Business, but hundreds of millions on
(04:30):
social and it was weaponized on the right and it
started to bleed it and and and so for me,
that crossed the line.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And that's why I'm pushing back.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
That is the way that's the system works on that side. Look,
I was obviously in corporate legacy, mainstream media, whatever you want.
I had a great career, loved it. I have nothing
bad to say about my colleagues. But it's like they're
fighting or they're trying to tell the truth blindfolded to
the reality of what's happening to the truth, is what
I would say. It was frustrating being in there because
(05:03):
there Trump has this power of bending reality for people,
and Fox's sister's whole ecosphere assists him in doing that,
and kind of both sides are the kind of vocabulary
that you can use is very difficult to serve the
people with still.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
And it's it's it's look, it's and that's not news
worthy in and of itself. What you said, it's spot on,
but it's really eroding trust and it's hurting our democracy,
and it's it's code read. And you think Fox, who's
just the most blatant and you know, I mean just
(05:45):
notoriously the most blatant as it relates to being a
propaganda network, would have learned that lesson with that seven
and eighty seven million dollars settlement.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
With dominion.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
But they haven't, and they continue to cover up for
the folly and the lies of this president. And it's
one thing for the president to lie. It did it
just a few months moments ago, quite literally about water
in California.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Again any's obsession. But you don't cover up for that.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
You don't willfully and knowingly and maliciously cover up for
those lies, edit information and alter what you present as
fact and defame people.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
You can't do that.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Is there something about the past few months in this
second term? And I don't want to post facto rationalize
what I did. I wasn't thinking it's too much. It's
the straw that breaks the camel's back. I thought I
was describing accurately a public figure in America.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
By the way, a few words rung more true than
those words. Forgive me. That's just my editorial opinion, all right.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
And I actually was worse is it wasn't like a
drug tweet. I actually looked at it and I read it. Yeah,
that's true, it's sin. There you go. But my point
is that there is this hammer blow, this daily bludgeoning
of the body politic with cruelty, right and and and
lies at every point demoralizes people. And I've seen you
(07:16):
over the past couple of years. It seems one of
things I really respected and enjoyed you doing was crossing
over going to Fox and and debating Hannity, you know,
taking them out of having a good debate with DeSantis.
People appreciate that. But there is there something about the
past few months and the Democrats crying out for someone
(07:38):
to do something that is part of the background to
you pulling what is in some ways it's done right
this lawsuit.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah, look back to lawsuit.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
But let me go back almost three years ago today,
because we just celebrated and not celebrated. We lamented the
anniversary of the Dobbs decision three years ago. And I
remember being a playing parata in southern California in La say,
where the hell is my party? And it was an
indictment of individual leaders. It wasn't even indictment of the
you know, the DNC. It was sort of, frankly, it
(08:08):
was dting on my own lack of accountability. At this
moment that the other side was dominating the narrative on
CRT and DEI ESG. They were censoring and historic facts,
rewriting history quite literally rewriting social studies books and places
like Florida. And I was watching the weaponization and the
propaganda coming from these networks, not just Fox One, American News, Newsmax,
(08:33):
and how they're able to shapeshift the conversation, and how
my party, the Democratic Party, was consistently on the defense.
And that's where I woke up. I said, you know what,
the world we're living in has happened on our watch.
Society becomes how we behave take some responsibility, man, and
so I decided I needed to actually not just complain
(08:55):
about something. I needed to do something. And that's when
I started to reach out and went on Fox and
I had Hannity.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I said, let's go.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Let's go into Ronald Reagan's old building, the old governor's mansion,
where Reagan was ask me anything you want. Let's do
an unedited hour hour and a half interview. We did that,
and I started to go back on Fox, and that's
why I ended up. And I appreciate your reference to
the debate with Rondo Santis, and so I think that's healthy.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I thought it was a point.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
A lot of my members of my party were critical, saying,
why do you even indulge those guys.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
It's all fake news, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
But I thought it's important to meet people where they are,
so I sail that in the context of this lawsuit,
I have a high threshold for the bullshit on Fox.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Is the point, all right.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I wouldn't do this unless I felt they really did
cross the line, and I don't. It's not about money
for a nonprofit, it's about accountability. I really did hope
and expect after that dominion lawsuit they would stop, but
they haven't. And right now, if you're covering up for
(09:58):
the cruelty, God bless you, that's the right word, not
just the chaos, for the abject lies in mistruths of
this administration, you can't lay claim to being a news
organization any longer. That's what this lawsuits about.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I think that is exactly the conundrum that my former
colleagues and across the establishment legacy, corporate, mainstream media, whatever
you want to call it. They are doing their best.
I love my respect them. They're doing great work. But
there's something that's changed in this moment. It is a
moment in history where it requires a different response. I
(10:38):
think I'm discovering that in myself, and I do think
that I wonder if one of the things you're trying
to do is give heart to people who see this,
who are bludgeoned and either on the sidelines, I don't
want to get involved. They may have even voted for
Trump don't like it, or certainly the people who didn't
(10:59):
vot for Trump feeling in despair. He is all powerful,
controlling the narrative, and now just bring the hammer down
in every walk of life.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
I wish I could show you a video I just
got right before we went on from a friend of
mine down in San Diego. In this young woman torn
away from her car by mass men, screaming and yelling,
turns out to be a housekeeper at a well known
hotel in southern California, a member of Local eleven unit
here just ripped off the streets by mass men. This
(11:36):
is the moral moment. This is happening in America. Have
five thousand federalized troops, the US military in the streets
of Los Angeles in twenty twenty five. Today, I mean,
this is to your point, things have radically changed. You
can't operate with the old constructs people talk about. I heard,
(11:59):
you know, there's been some punitry. You know, we're moving
towards authoritarianism, and it depends which lens, which set of
eyes you have. How About to that young woman on
the street, We're already there. For some of us that
have more privileged we're not there yet. And so I
want to speak for those folks to your point. Yeah,
for things to change, you've got to change. It's not
(12:20):
what happens, it's how we respond to what happens. And
I need to be held to a higher level of accountability.
And so I appreciate the frame of your question. Yeah,
I've changed. I've changed.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I've changed when those National Guard were federalized.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I changed when I started to see members of our
community torn asunder, terrorized by these raids, and people in
masks and things that I've never thought i'd see in
this country, to see people deported, disappeared. I was with
a twelve year old boy, same age as of my kids, crying,
who lost his mother and father they disappeared. They went
(12:56):
to the same job site they've been going to twenty
years in Ox's, California, and he had no one, he
didn't even know get back in his own house. That's
Trump's America. So when you say those words terry about
Stephen Miller, you were goddamn right. Excuse my language, you
were right, and he is wrong, and it's wrong for
(13:16):
us to operate under the old rules. Forgive me for
being intense about this, but a lot of people are
counting us to do more and be better.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I respect that intensity. That's where we have to find
our courage, right, we have to find it there, and
I appreciate what you're saying about that. I will say that,
having just gotten back one of the things, if you
don't mind a personal note, the outpouring of people signing
up for this and actually very very kind and genuine
(13:45):
support for some I didn't, you know, from one perspective,
really screwed up.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
This is not the way I'd recommend leaving a job.
But as I say, I'm kind of exhilarated and excited
by the possibilities and by the work ahead, the good
work that you're talking about ahead. But I do feel
that it became for a lot of people a galvanizing moment, right,
They a sense that, Okay, whatever you think of what
(14:12):
he said, including some of my neighbors, I live in
a kind of a purple neighborhood in Frederick, Maryland, closer
to Antietam and Gettysburg. Then at Washington, d C. And
a lot of my neighbors voted for Trump, and one
of them in particular, you know, very strong for Trump.
He told my wife, he said, tell your husband, you know,
I really respect him. I though what he did was brave.
(14:33):
I mean, you know, look at us at his social feeds.
He loves that. It was very encouraging for me. I
feel very encouraged. But the point of it is, I
think the point the cruelty is the point to dishearten people,
make them amenable to more and more authority. And just
one more note. In Springfield, one of the young Asian
(14:56):
men that I spoke with, he had a brain tumor
in Haiti. They couldn't help him. Came to the United States,
started working, got on Obamacare, got the brain tumor operated on.
But they had to remove his pituitary glands. So he
needs to regulate his hormonal system. If they send him back,
he'll die. And he said, I don't go out of
(15:16):
the house because anyone can wear a mask. Memories from Haiti.
Anyone can wear a mask and put ice on them.
I don't know if they're kidnappers or if they're the law.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
So there are.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Thousands of people hiding in their homes from the federal
government who are were until a couple of weeks ago
here lawfully good employees. You go ask the businesses down there,
the dole plant, automachining plants. You ask the mayor and
the city council. These are good people, the vast majority
of them, and they're hiding from our government. That's to
me a disgrace. It is a disgrace.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
But you've reinforced this point, and I want to amplify
the point I think you're making that the cruelty is
the point, but the point being that that demoralization just
completely neuters us, and we become numb, and we no
longer are active. We're inert, and that is exactly what
(16:08):
he wants. He wants to crush us into submission. He
wants to overwhelm. The shock in eyes about overwhelming us,
and so we cannot maintain neutrality at this time. It
was Dante said, the hottest place in Hell is reserved
at a time more christis for those that maintain their neutrality.
(16:29):
This is not a neutral moment, and I think, look,
this lawsuit, I hope represents just an expression of that
I want both to know we're not just going to
roll over, that We're gonna have people's backs, people that
may not have a voice, people that may not have
the privilege that you and I have to even be
able to go on substack, to be able to have
this conversation, to reach a few people that are kind
(16:50):
enough to take the time to listen to know that
they matter and we care. There are people out there
that give a damn. You gave a damn to go
back to Springfield and checking with people that that that
were used purely as a political you know, political fodder,
that were used as subjects, not human beings, and to
humanize them. Uh, that's important, and it's more important now
(17:14):
than ever. So Look, I think it's in that same
spirit that that that we initiated this lawsuit and same
spirit to which we're pushing back against, uh, these authoritarian
and tendencies and uh and in Trump.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Isn't can I ask you before before we move on
the the New York May Old primary, mc donnie winning
winning and and Cuomo going down to defeat a lot
of Democrats are seeing that as as a signal of
a new direction. A lot of other Democrats are saying
that this is maybe New York City, but it would
(17:47):
not work in other parts of the country. How do
you read that politically?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
I think my my experience in this respect is we
tend to overstate in the short term lessons learned, or
we extrapolite the lessons that frankly just reinforce our own
pre existing biases of.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
What this means or what this doesn't mean.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
But to the credit of man Donnie, this was a
hell of a campaign. I mean, you know, you could
distinguish the message from the messenger, but his ability to
galvanize and to organize, to use the tools of technology.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And new media to create a.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I thought, a personality that even if you disagreed, you
kind of had a little more trust and was rather extraordinary.
And so from that perspective, in the power of emulation
success leaves some clues. Now what this means ultimately for
the Democratic Party, was this really apprediation of Cuomo came
out with a lot of baggage. Was this more parochial
(18:53):
politics in the context of just one American city, though
the largest is to be to turn.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
But I think it's a one thing.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
I think it is is a giant wake up call
that democracy is still alive and well bottom up. And
if you're looking at this for the prism, I think
particularly U Speaker Johnson, you're recognizing you got eighteen months left.
And if you're looking at this, as Susie Wiles, the
chief of staff of the President, your administration ends in
(19:23):
eighteen months. We're going to take back the house. Where
you're seeing young people reawaken here. They haven't gotten the
message about the cynicism yet, they're still engaged. And for me,
that was maybe the most compelling takeaway from what occurred
last week.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Well that that is a great positive, hardening end because
people people are looking for something to look forward to,
the good hard work of saving the country, right.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Saving the kind of look at you know, if it's
what cannot overstate, that's that's simple statement that you just
made Supreme Court, Maate.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
It more challenging today.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Look, we just cannot live in the divided States of
America any longer. Uh you know, I'm sort of paraphrasing
Bill play. You can't divorce is not an option. We're
going to have to find the terms of the future
to live and advance together across our differences. And and
and I think you know, one thing people need to
see is other people's courage. And and for those people
(20:24):
that turned out and voted, uh, that's that's an active citizenship.
And the office of citizen right now is the most
important office of all. And and I think for all
the assaults on institutions, that's the institution that will endure.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
And that's what gives me hope and optimism.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
All right, well, great, thanks, thanks very much. It was
just fun.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
This was fun.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Terry, thanks for having me on and Congress on everything.
Keep doing what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Thank you, thank you, good luck, good luck in court.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Thank you with them
Host
Gavin Newsom
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