This is... Katie Couric

Paris’ close friend Katie Couric is here this week! The renowned television journalist and media personality has a lot to discuss, especially some heartwarming real-life advice. The surprising BFFs talk deep relationship advice, beauty, why Katie wanted to meet Spencer Pratt and why we are all going into the bathroom with Hunter. Listen to a personal side of Katie you haven’t heard before as she takes the podcast seat with Paris. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is Paris. Hey Hunter, how are you feeling. I'm
feeling okay. I got the second vaccine last night, so
all the side effects that they warned me about um

(00:23):
are true. The little It's not horrible, but I just
don't feel But then the next day I'll be fully vaccinated,
feeling great, and I'll be a thousand percent nice. Yeah,
it's weird how it affects people differently. Like for me,
I was just a little bit tired and my arm hurt,
but I didn't feel sick. But then I have other
friends who are exhausted and they don't feel well and

(00:45):
they're like, now I feel like I have COVID. So
it's it's really strange how COVID hits people differently, and
then the shot as well. Yeah. Yeah, well I'm excited
because now it means i'll have what Nina on Nightly
Pop is calling a whole summer, which is just like
live your life, have a fun summer, go on dates,

(01:06):
and not have to worry about COVID, which sounds great. Yeah.
I think the world is definitely going to be opening
up soon with everybody getting it, so it's pretty exciting.
It's finally over almost it's almost over. How are you doing?
How I haven't seen now, It's been like two weeks
since we've actually seen each other in person, So what's
going on in your life. I'm great. I just got

(01:27):
back from aspen Carter and I went with the whole
family and it was like twenty of us staying in
a house together and it was so much fun. I
love aspen Is Carter just perfect with the family, Like,
is it just a perfect fit. Yes. And they're so sweet.
They're just like the nicest people. They're all from Traverse City, Michigan,

(01:48):
so they're just like very sweet, down to earth, real
genuine and kind people. And he is just so cute
with his mom. He's like the best son ever. And
they threw this surprise engagement dinner for us, so it
was really cute and really nice just hearing everyone's speeches
and taking family photos and it just made me feel

(02:09):
like even more part of the family. That's amazing. Yeah,
I feel like you just did a huge ad for
dating people from Michigan. Like, Michigan people are going to
start skyrocketing in terms of like, you know, hinge profiles
and stuff. I know, Actually, when we'd only been dating
less than a month. That's when I went home with

(02:29):
him for Christmas to Michigan for the first time, because
we started dating on Thanksgiving, and then he invited me
with his family to go to Michigan for Christmas and
then to yellow Stone to go skiing. So I met
them literally right away, and it was like I known
them for years. Do you feel like you're attracted to

(02:49):
kind of that maybe Midwest, maybe South, but anywhere from
anywhere but l A and New York lifestyle? Like do
you find yourself attracted to men like that? Harder's like
my first nice guy from the Midwest. So now I
can see why when people talk about, like, oh, I
want to find a person from the Midwest, it is true,

(03:10):
like they're just so nice, like not affected, like so
not l A. It's just completely different. It's just like actual, real, genuine, kind,
good hearted people, which is so rare. People don't understand
the whole fakeness in l A thing until you get here,
and you have to be here for like years to

(03:31):
even realize that all those people you met right when
you got to l A really weren't there for your
for your you know, dinner. They weren't there for you
they were there to meet somebody else that you possibly knew,
or get a job. It's just it's a very like
it is mostly pretty gross. It's hard to find genuine
people in the city. It really is. There's a lot

(03:52):
of opportunists, a lot of hungry tigers, a lot of users,
and just people who are beyond There's good people, but
you know, there's a lot of not so good ones. Yeah.
I feel like a lot of people, a lot of
your fans, specifically, I feel like, idolize l A. And
they idolize this, like, uh, this lifestyle, and for the

(04:14):
most part, l A is really sad. It's just like
heartbreak after heartbreak, and then one in every ten thou
people find a modicum of success and then that's the
only one you see on TV. You don't realize that,
you know, two thirds of the other people are now
mascots on Hollywood Boulevard, which has always been my nightmare. Like,

(04:35):
if this doesn't go well, Paris, that's what I'm gonna
do next. So please let's make this podcast. Oh my god, yes, okay,
we will. We are okay, good, good, Well, speaking of
the podcast, our guest today is really uh, I mean
a pleasant surprise. I met her at your birthday dinner.

(04:57):
It's Katie Curic. It is so random that you two
even became friends in the first place. How did that happen?
I love Katie. I actually from years just being in
New York, and then we became close when Carter and
I first started dating, and he's good friends with her
and her husband John, and we went to Vegas for
c S, which is like this tech conference, and we

(05:21):
went over to the Wind Hotel and went up to
her room and it was just Carter, Courtney, his brother,
and Katie and her husband John, and that's when we
became friends. And then ever since then, I've actually probably
seen Katie and John more than any of my other
friends during quarantine. Like we've had dinner in the Hampton's

(05:43):
dinner in l A and just I've just really seen
each other a lot during this time, which is really nice.
I love them. There's such a sweet couple. They're so sweet.
Katie was phenomenal. I feel like everybody who went up
to her kind of left with a smiling face after
the dinner, just because she's she really listens, which is
obviously a big part of her job, but it carries

(06:04):
over into her personal life, and I felt like I
felt heard Paris when I talked to Katie, I felt heard.
She's such an icon and she's just so kind and
so brilliant, and I love her. I love having her
as a friend. Well, I am excited to talk to her.
Let's welcome, Katie Curry. This is Paris. This is Paris. Hi, Hi, guys,

(06:34):
by h Hello Katie. It's so nice to see you.
Are you I'm doing well. I heard we have something
in common. We both just got our vaccine. Oh yeah,
we did. I just got Molnar and I just got
her second one on Sunday. How do you feel or
how did you feel on Monday Tuesday? You know, other
than a sore arm and a little bit of fatigue,

(06:55):
I felt fine. I didn't quite feel like myself the
next day. But now I now I feel really good.
How about you. I think women are much tougher than
men because we probably feel the same. Yet I want
to take the week off of work. You know, I'm
like ready to call it, and I'm ready to quit
a couple of jobs just because you know, I'm a

(07:16):
little tired. My arms sore. Um, so I think you're tougher,
but I'm glad that you have it. It means next
time we do a birthday dinner at Paris's we can
all hug and hang out. We were being pretty safe
last time, so hug and hang out and make out
and everything else. Let mulner know. I'm excited. He looks
like a very kissable man. Um. So I met you

(07:41):
at Paris's dinner. How was that for you? Her birthday dinner?
It was so much fun. I mean, first of all,
I love Paris and I love Carter, and uh, John
and I are big fans of both them, of both
of them individually and as a couple, and so it
was really fun. I'm mean, I have to say, I

(08:01):
gotta kick out of her little doggy mansion, and uh,
you know, I love that Paris is completely just embraces
who she is, what she likes, um in every way,
so she's She's totally Paris. It was fun for me,
It wasn't you know. I've met some really nice people. UM.

(08:22):
Really enjoy talking to you, Hunter, um, and and really
enjoy talking to a lot of the people who were there.
So you know, it was just it was really nice
that we were included and I always loved to see
uh Well, Paris's mom was there, so it was nice
to say hi to her, and and it was nice
for us to see Carter's mom. I met her before,

(08:45):
and he's such a a great son to his mom.
And you know, it's just it was a very warm,
very uh friendly and family I think oriented gathering, which
was nice. H it was so much fun. I was
so happy to see you there. Well, it's just it's

(09:06):
just been it's been really fun for us to get
to know Paris. We knew Carter first, and you know,
I'm excited. I think she's a very smart, entrepreneurial person.
I think that Carter has really unleashed a lot of
her talent. But I think sort of as a couple,

(09:26):
they're pretty unstoppable. So it's exciting to watch them collaborate
and figure out things to do. And waits for Paris
to grow because she's obviously a lot more than um.
You know. I think she's she's grown, immatured, you know.
And I think people get typecast and categorized very much

(09:47):
in our culture. It's very difficult, I think, particularly for
women to see as multidimensional people. You know, I think
that that I struggled with that throughout my career, you know,
because yes, I'm quote a both perky and that I'm
outgoing and friendly and I like to engage with people.
But you know, that doesn't necessarily negate the fact that

(10:10):
I'm you know, that I'm intelligent and curious and care
deeply about important issues. But it's kind of hard, I think,
for for people to see, as I said, particularly women,
as sort of the the totality of who they are.
I agree. You've actually been there since the beginning of
Carter and I dating, so you've seen it all. Yeah,

(10:34):
that's right. I think we first we first met when
you guys were both at CS and you came up
and said hi, and um, it was funny, Hunter, because
my daughters are big Paris fans, and uh, Paris I
think called them and face timed with Carrie, I believe,

(10:55):
And uh, Carrie is really interesting. She's my my younger daughter.
My older daughter is super interesting too. But Carrie has
this fascination with both popular culture and she's extremely intellectual,
so she looks at popular culture from a very kind
of cerebral lens. And um, she did a whole thing

(11:17):
on Mormonism and the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City
on her Instagram. And she's just a very interesting person.
But she got such a kick out of Paris calling her.
And that's one thing that has really struck me about Paris.
You know, she um is so so willing to think

(11:39):
her fans. You know, she never turns the fan away.
She never says she wants her privacy, and that that's
that's hard. And I mean I tend to be not
you know, I don't have I have a very different
fan base than Paris, but I tend to want to
try to make people happy. But BA can sometime be

(12:00):
tough on a relationship, and you know, I think it
will be interesting, uh if Carter gets tired of that
at all, or if he you know, right now he's
getting a kick out of it. I'm sure, because you
guys are in the la la la la la stage.
But you know, it can actually kind of um put

(12:20):
a bit of a strain on a relationship when there's
so much attention paid to one member of the couple
and um, you know, requires somebody who's incredibly patient and supported.
John is really great about it, but once in a
while he's like, can you think of an exit question,
so you can detach. Because I tend to maybe spend

(12:44):
a little more time than it's necessary with people, but
I'm so cognizant of not wanting to seem rude or
dismissive that I probably go overboard. But it's something that
you're going to have to navigate. Listen, suddenly I'm turning
into an Landers. But it's something you're to have to
navigate in your marriage because, um, you know, it's going
to be important for for Carter to feel that that

(13:07):
he is important and that you believe he is as
important as as your fans. Yeah, he's so patient, and
you're going to get marriage marriage now. I was actually
going to ask you for some so I'm happy that
you're giving some advice. But yeah, Carter is so patient.
And I've been in other relationships where the boyfriend would

(13:28):
get so mad and just be jealous and weird and
and tell him like to be like, get to get
the fans away, and and I've always hated that when
when someone in a relationship is like that. But he's
always so kind and patient and he loves to make
people happy. He calls me Santa Claus, and he's so cute.
He'll offer to take the pictures like he's just it

(13:50):
doesn't matter no matter how many people come up. And
I've never been in a relationship like that where the
person is so secure with himself and so proud of me.
And it's a really good feeling to have because I've
never experienced that before with anyone. That's a wonderful feeling.
And I think you're You're so lucky, and he clearly

(14:10):
doesn't feel threatened at all by by your success and
your fame. But it's something to kind of keep an
eye on because it can kind of creep up and um,
you know, you just want to I think it's really
important to continue to make your partner feel special and that, um,

(14:31):
you know that they're not there just to hold the
camera for pictures of people, you know, that kind of thing.
My assistants, my assistant used to call me say that
I was like Mickey Mouse at Disney Disney World at
one point because of you know, people wanting to get
their pictures taken. But I I'm still you know, I
was always very flattered, and you always want the interaction

(14:54):
to be a positive one because the last thing you want,
I think, is for someone to go back to their
hometown or the friends and say, oh my god, you know,
she was so rude to me. And she may seem
nice on TV, but she was terrible anyway. I agree
with that completely, because some people in this industry they
just are very mean and they have their security guards

(15:17):
push them away, and I just I would feel so
bad to make anyone ever feel sad. So I think
I love that you're like me, where you want to
make people happy and put a smile on someone's face
and make someone feel good. It takes such little effort
to to to make a really positive experience for someone,
and it's something that while you may not remember, is

(15:40):
something that that person is going to remember. And you know,
it's just it's just the right thing to do and
the nice thing to do, but you do have to
kind of balance it with some other things. And you know,
it always makes me laugh when when if people you know,
this doesn't happen to me as it used as much
as it used to. But you'll be sitting down having

(16:00):
dinner and someone will say, I am really sorry to
bother you, or I don't want to bother you. I
don't want to interrupt your dinner, and then John is
always like, then why are you He doesn't say that,
but he wants to say. That's that Sue. That's such
a popular one, the whole I don't mean to bother
you while you're eating, but you're right here. But here

(16:23):
I am bothering you while you eat. While you're eating, right, So, Paris,
are you at all work? Because I feel like, you know,
with all of this conversation, you've been very lucky in
that you and Carter spent most of your relationship in
a pandemic. You know, there hasn't been that onslaught of attention.
Do you at all worry that, like when the world
does open back up, that that might be something that

(16:45):
could become an issue or are you just so confident
in what's going on that it's not an issue. Well,
we've been together since Thanksgiving, so we had up until
November through March, and we were you know, going to
places like Miami and New York, and so he's experienced
all of that with me. And even during the pandemic,
it's like when I go places, it is like that

(17:05):
not as bad as before, because you know, everyone's wearing
a mask and sometimes it's a little bit easier to hide. UM,
So yeah, I think it's going to be fine. He's
just he's really proud and it makes I think it
makes him happy to see other people happy as well.
So it's also not just happy he's I think he's
a he's really proud of of a lot of the

(17:27):
work you're doing. You know, it's not just proud that
you're well known or a celebrity. I think he's really
proud that that, you know, you're showing yourself to be
a person of real substance and someone who's committed to
changing a system that affected you and that you know,
and honestly exposing an issue that got very little attention.

(17:51):
And um, I think when people hunter can use their
celebrity to to really expose a serious problem in in
society or you know, to change behavior in a positive
way or make people aware of all kinds of things,
that's that's such an accomplishment. And I really think that

(18:14):
that Carters is really proud of Paris for doing that,
not only during the documentary, but testifying um as she
did in in probo and really really starting this conversation
that could have a tremendous impact on so many families
across the country. So I think I think he is really,

(18:35):
really really proud of her for that, which is nice.
And I think a lot of people are and I am,
and I think it's awesome what you've done. And can
I ask you a couple of questions about that, Paris Hunter,
I can't help it. I just am always asking questions.
But you know, what is that? What is that? What
was the experience like for you? Were you nervous, you know,

(18:59):
testifying And I'm just curious what this whole um effort
has been like for you. I was super nervous. I
never have testified in my life. And to be testifying
about something that was so personal and so traumatic and
difficult to talk about, was at you know, the same
state where it had happened, was very hard. But just

(19:22):
the reaction from all the senators up there, they had
tears in their eyes. They were all just so affected
by what I said and it really meant something where
they were like, we need to make even more laws
for this. And then to go back there last week
and sign the bill with the governor and that I
made a law, It's just mind blowing to me. And um,

(19:43):
I've never felt so empowered in my life to have
actually used my voice and made such a huge difference,
and to know that everything that happened to me as
a teenager would be illegal today. And next is taking
it to a federal level, I know, which is so exciting.
Are you gonna go? Are you gonna Are other states
complicit in this this problem or is it limited to

(20:05):
just a few states in the country. A lot of
states people don't know about it because no one talks
about it, but it's it's happening in a lot of places.
So I want to take it to all fifty states,
so in every single state it would be illegal, which
should be. It's your abusing children obviously should be illegal.
But these are just multibillion dollar industry and that's why

(20:27):
a lot of people like to just you know, put
it under the rug and not talk about it, because
people are making so much money off of it. But
no one should profit off the abuse of children. And
I and I think also the response you've gotten has
just been extraordinary, the number of stories that you're now
hearing about places. And I think a lot of the parents,

(20:49):
like your parents Paris, had no idea right They thought
they were doing the right things for their children. Um,
and or would you say that, I mean, did the
majority of parents. Were the majority of parents clueless or
were they aware or do you think it's just hard
to know? No one is a where all the parents,

(21:09):
the parents are just as manipulated as the children because
these places, you know, when you send your child somewhere
to be healed, you assume you know these adults that
are taking care of them are and they tell the
parents your child is a liar. They're going to manipulate you.
They just want to, you know, come home, so they're
going to make up stories. So no one has ever
been believed, like a lot of people. I've spoken to

(21:32):
thousands of survivors who have dealt with the same thing
as me, and they said, for so many years I
tried to explain to my parents, to my friends, to people,
and nobody believed me. Everyone thought I was crazy. And
thank god for you that you told your story, because
now my parents are talking to me. We're finally having
a relationship again. There's kids getting pulled out of these

(21:53):
places because the parents just don't know because these places
are just they're sick. Yeah, well, it's awesome what you've
done and you know, I think it's it's it's an
incredible contribution that you've made. And I'm sure compared to
a lot of the work you've done throughout your career,

(22:14):
whether it's producing products or whatever, I bet this, they
don't those things don't really compare to the feeling you
have making a difference and really changing lives. Thank you well.
Speaking of contributions, Katie, uh, you have made a massive
one with Stand Up to Cancer, which you co founded,

(22:36):
right yeah, along with nine other Type A women who
were very frustrated by the pace of cancer research. And
I think, you know, my cancer advocacy Hunter and Paris
is probably what I'm most proud of. I always say
that I would want that to be the first line
of my obituary, even though I try not to think

(22:57):
of my obituary too much. But you know, all the
things that I've done in my life and career, um,
you know, other than raising too successful and healthy daughters, uh,
that I've done raising awareness about correctal cancer, which the
second leading cancer killer of men and women combined, and um,

(23:21):
you know, and starting stand Up to Cancer with some
phenomenal women and being able to raise over six hundred
million dollars to support collaborative cancer research. Um, those are certainly,
you know, very very the highest thing on my list
after my daughters. And uh, you know, I think I

(23:42):
still have people coming up to me and saying, I
got a colonoscopy because of you or you know, and
and uh they it was it was life saving for me.
And um, you know, to to that kind of impact
is really hard to hard to describe. So that I

(24:03):
think has uh, you know, it's been wonderful, and you know, gosh,
there's so many problems in the world, but still like
a person dies of cancer every minute in this country,
and it's such a complex disease and it's so it's
it's so challenging for scientists, but I think we're really

(24:24):
on the cusp of it just feels so painfully slow
figuring out how to attack the disease with immuno therapy,
you know, bolstering your systems immune immune response, to very
you know, targeted therapies, to personalized medicine, to all kinds
of approaches that I think are delivering results. It's not

(24:48):
fast enough, you know, for my taste. And anybody who
doesn't win their fight is just such a tragedy to me.
But you know happening law my husband when he was
just forty two. Someone was asking me today, who you know? Um,
and then I was realizing cush. I was a widow

(25:09):
for sixteen years before I married John. But and then
losing my sister Emily when she was just fifty four
and running for lieutenant governor of Virginia. She was replaced
by Tim Caine, who became the governor and then a
senator and then a vice presidential contender with Hillary Clinton. Um.
You know, it's just it's so frustrating that that they

(25:31):
were ripped off so much. So I I really hope
that our our research contributes better therapies that can can
keep people around and and allow them to live long,
productive lives like my sister and my husband weren't able to. Yeah.
I think six and a million dollars should help with

(25:52):
all of that research that's out there. Yeah, I mean
we're trying, you know. It's uh. When I went on Jeopardy,
I was happy that I was able to donate that
they actually I didn't. The people at Jeopardy were so
great to donate the winnings or match the winnings of
the contestants and give it to stand up to cancer,

(26:14):
which was so meaningful for me, not only because I'm
enormously proud of the organization, but because Alex trovectaed to
pancreatic cancer and was just superhuman and how he dealt
with it in those final months and days and just
I mean just so courageous. And then of course with

(26:34):
my sister Emily, So it meant a lot for me
to be able to not only give to pancretic cancer research,
but to crow about the organization on national television where
everybody would hear about the work that we're doing. It's amazing,
it is I'm so sorry that you have to go
through that. Cancer is literally I lost my grandmother. She

(26:59):
was only sixty four, and it was just so painful,
and it just breaks my heart to see so many
people who have to suffer through this and all the families.
It's just I really hope and pray that they'll find
it cures in I hope so too. You know, it's
been so long since Richard Nixon declared a war on

(27:20):
cancer and in the seventies and um, you know, I
talked I had a little zoom with a high school
friend and she's gotten together a group of women who
are all battling breast cancer, and you know, it's, uh,
I think sometimes we don't we don't recognize and appreciate
how lucky were lucky we are when we have our health.

(27:42):
You know, sometimes when you feel really bad, you're like,
why wasn't I grateful when I didn't didn't have this
happening to my body? But it's just it's just one
of those things, like this sort of damocles that's hanging
over your head for so long, and it's it's I
have a really good friend whose brother how has been
battling pancreatic cancer, and it's just it's so so heartbreaking,

(28:05):
and uh, you know, I think it's just amazing to
me that we haven't figured out a way to beat
this disease. But I think part of it is because
it's a millions of different really, I don't know, millions
of different diseases and million different biologies because everyone everyone's
body responds differently to cancer, and so it's extremely complex.

(28:31):
And uh, but I'm very hopeful and have to stay
positive that that we're going to continue to make breakthrough.
Stand Up to Cancer has contributed to I believe nine
uh new FDA approved drugs. UM. So we are making
progress and people are living longer, but I won't be
happy until all kinds of cancers can be completely cured

(28:53):
instead of just managed. M hm, Well you did a
colonoscopy and you kind of made you normalized it in
a way which probably saved countless lives. Um And I
feel like there's a lot of people listening, like, for example, me,
I don't know when to get a colonosopy. So how
old do you do you have to be when you

(29:13):
get your first colonoscopy? Well, I'm really glad you asked that, Hunter,
because I'm pretty sure, looking at your complexion and the
lack of wrinkles that you are not old enough to
get a colonoscopy yet. But thank you for other listeners
and pay attention to everyone, because you know, I always think,
don't don't be the person who says if only, if

(29:36):
only I had done this, Because yes, it's like not
at the top of your to do list, but it's
much better than being you know, diagnosed and battling a
very serious cancer. So you should get one when you're
forty five. The American Cancer Society and some other organizations

(29:58):
lowered the age. For Black Americans it was forty five
because they were being diagnosed more often than than white people. There,
I think, more likely to be diagnosed and forty percent
more likely to die from colorectal cancer. And of course
a lot of this is due to the social determinants
of health. You know, things that you know, really important

(30:21):
factors like access to care and poverty and lifestyle and
diet and many of those things. Um, but now everybody
is recommended to get one at forty five because the
number of people who are being diagnosed, you guys with
colorectal cancer under fifty is on the rise, and they

(30:44):
can't really figure out why. Um, we're a lot of
scientists are studying this now. They don't know if it's
something with a microbiome or if it's impact connected to obesity.
Who knows. But the fact of the matter is younger
and younger people are getting this. So you should have

(31:04):
it at forty five if you have no family history.
If you do have a family history, you should get
it ten years. But prior to that, when that person
was diagnosed, so my daughters would get it. Jake was
diagnosed at one so Ellie, my oldest daughter, would get
it at thirty one. And Carrie actually went ahead and

(31:25):
got one because the doctor Felice Chanels Thussman at the
Monahan Center named after my husband at New York Hospital said,
we're not sure what was going on with jay Um.
We don't know, you know, we haven't discovered a lot
of the genes, so why don't we go ahead and
give carry at colonosty now. And she got one actually

(31:46):
just a few weeks ago, and they they found a
small polyp And the reason why you get screened is
that you remove the polyp before it becomes cancerous and
then starts penetrating through a colon wall, and that's when
it can metastasize to other organs. So that's why it's
really important. And colon cancer is one of those things

(32:08):
that it could be growing inside you and you could
be perfectly fine and be completely asymptomatic. So you definitely
need to talk to your doctor and be aware of
symptoms and make sure that your doctor is aggressive. And
you know, colonoscopy is one option. There are other options.
You know, they're increasingly really effective at home stool tests

(32:29):
for example, that you can get if you don't want
to have a colonoscopy, but it's something that you need
to really advocate for and talk to your doctor about
and just make sure that your doctor doesn't pooh pooh,
so to speak, you know, the whole idea. Uh, there
are there are a million colonoscopy puns, guys, but they

(32:50):
really take your concerns seriously. It's really important. So it's
just a few people listening to this. If you call
your doctor and say it's time for me to get
a calling cancecer screening, or I want to get an
at home stool test, or there are things that I
can do, you know that some of those people will, Hey,

(33:12):
you guys could save some lives today. And how how
great is that Hunter? You should do Coli Guard on
the show? What is that? Coal of Guard is an
at home test that actually can measure if you have
cancer as cells in your stool. I know this is

(33:33):
kind of a gross conversation, but we need to while
we kind of need to normalize it. You know, people
didn't talk about breast cancer for the longest time because
breast was kind of a dirty word, believe it or not.
And there was an article there's a great book by
Saddartha Saddartha Mukherjee called The Emperor of All Maladies, which
is the history of cancer. And when there was the

(33:54):
support group, I think for women with breast cancer in
the the New York Times, it us described as you know,
a support group for women's suffering from cancer of the
chess cavity. And you know, they were allowed to write
breast in the New York Times. So one of the
reasons that our awareness about breast cancer and early detection

(34:18):
and support groups is because we've no realized it and
we haven't you know, we've destigmatized it. And I hate
to say it, but the same thing needs to happen
for all kinds of cancers, whether I mean testicular or
colon cancer. And the fact of the matter is like
it's just a natural function of the human body. Almost

(34:39):
everybody has a colon. And so one of the tests
is through a stool test, and um, that's what some
of these at home tests like cole Regard. You send
a sample in and they can determine sort of the
health of your colon through that sample. So you know,
it's it's it sounds yucky, but as I said, a

(35:00):
lot yuckier is getting the kind of chemo that my
husband got, wasting away and you know, having b temporal
wasting where your your head starts to look like a skull,
and not being able to see his daughters grow up.
That's that's gross. What that's not gross is being screened

(35:20):
for colon cancer. I will happily do a colon guard
at home. I mean, I'm just wasting all my poop anyway,
just flushing down the toilet, so there's it's getting no
use right now. So I'd rather use it to figure
out if five cancer and then also, you know, show
people that it's pretty easy. You know, Yeah, that would
be awesome. They I mean, I mean, I don't know

(35:41):
if you have to show everything, but I mean for
you just to talk about it and the fact that
you did it, and the fact how old are you hunter?
I just turned thirty. Oh Jesus, yeah, listen, it's never
too early. As as one of the most influential people
in my life, Katie Kirkwan's help me, it's never too
early just to get checked and to be safe. And

(36:03):
I will happily do that. And I know you're saying
I don't need to show everything, but I'm setting up
lights and cameras and audio in the bathroom. I want
everybody to get can you set the close ups on
the toilet? There's no wide shot, Katie, it is all
close ups. E c use baby, extra close ups. I

(36:23):
want to know how you guys are enjoying doing a podcast.
Are you finding your rhythm? Are you having fun? What
has been some of the biggest challenges? And then I'll
stop asking you questions. But I'm really curious about you
know how you're enjoying the medium and what you think
of it. We're loving it. I'm so happy to have

(36:45):
Hunter with me as my partner in this because he's
so sweet and so funny and cool and just like
puts a smile on my face and everyone who comes
over or talks to us. We're usually together here at
my house doing this, but he's not feeling well because
of the shot, so um, yeah, usually we're together. I'm

(37:06):
a big baby, so Paris is kind enough to allow
my issue from home. But yeah, it's been I agree
with Paris. It's been so fun. I think anytime we
were complete strangers before this, like how did you guys
cook up in the old fast and sense of the term. Yeah,
don't don't say that to Carter. We have never hooked up. Carter,
if you're listening. As a slip of the tongue, I mean,

(37:29):
I think the Paris do you want to tell it?
I mean it's kind of pretty industry specific. Um yeah,
we were on Zoom and basically my team from my
heart said the sky Hunter would be perfect for the show,
and he was in Costa Rica, and then we were
talking on Zoom and then we just like immediately clicked.

(37:50):
And then when he came to l A, we met
up and like I knew right away, like when we
got on the first Zoom, even though he had like
the worst wife I ever in Osta Rica, they're not
known for their internet connection. Um So Paris heard like
every third word, but apparently they were the right ones.
And then yeah, when we when we met up, it
was It's just so funny because I feel like I

(38:13):
was thinking about this even with your dinner. There's such
a there's such a Paris Hilton, like um Aura and
like this like this allure that you even if you
don't know her, which I didn't, you know enough about
her where you're like this is interesting. So my team
called me. I was like, Paris Hilton is doing a
podcast and she wants you. They want you to meet
with her and possibly do with her. I was like,

(38:35):
get the cat here, okay um, and then it ended
up being like like like get the out of here.
I'm not interested or I can't believe it. I can't
believe it. I was so interested. I was like this is.
I was like, get the out of here, no way,
and they're like, no, for real, she's doing a podcast. Uh,
you're their first choice. And then once we met, ah,

(38:58):
Paris is right. I mean, it was just so easy.
And again, I feel like Paris is surprisingly sweet if
you don't know her, and you have sweet and shy,
very shy. People don't realize that Paris is shy and
it's so endearing. But she's kind of quiet and um,

(39:18):
I think once. I mean, I feel like I'm talking
about you, like you're not here, Paris. But I think
it takes you a while to get to know people
and feel comfortable around them. But I think for a while,
you know, even with us, you are kind of quiet
and shy. Um, and I are Petole surprised when they
hear that, yes, no one believes I'm shy. When I

(39:39):
say that, They're like, you do not seem shy at all, Like, well,
I'm very good at pretending to not be shy, but
I actually am. Is that because you kind of enter
you occupy a totally different persona in in in certain
cases and certainly early in your career. Definitely, I think
just because I've been a I person my whole life,

(40:00):
since I was a little girl. When I started becoming
in this industry, that's when I created that character. Because
then I felt like that character is acting and it
doesn't she doesn't have to be shy because it's not
really who I am. So I played kind of like
that more outlandish type of personality, but in real life,
I'm not like that. Yeah. We had one of my

(40:21):
favorite moments that I've had with Paris so far is
we did an entire It was after the birthday dinner actually,
and I was very hungover, and I went over to
her house to shoot the podcast and we do the
whole thing in Paris Is Paris, I mean, we're having fun.
She's been very sweet. She says goodbye to the guy.
She goes, Okay, goodbye. It's so nice talking to you.

(40:41):
And then as soon as we're done, she sits back
in her chair and goes, oh my god, hung over.
I was like, that's perfect, this is exactly And then
I think the more you like talk to her, then
you get whenever she doesn't put on the voice. So
she talks about in her documentary, Uh, you just know
that you're experiencing like her true self and and you're

(41:02):
going to get a very unfiltered version of her. And
I've been so blessed to be able to get that
version of her so often on the podcast and behind
the scenes of the podcast. Who have been some of
your favorite guests so far other than me, Let's say
we're talking to her. No, come on, seriously, I know
you've gotten some big names. You had Amy Schumer. We

(41:23):
loved her. She was so funny, great, she's so cool,
just smart, funny everything. I was looking at her Instagram
and she had a video of her son, Jean, and
she said he won't stop wearing his tap shoes and
I think they had a dog on whatever truck he
was pulling, but you could hear his little taps shoes

(41:45):
going click click click on the tile floor. It's just
so funny of course Geen won't take off his tap shoes.
It's like, what was so funny? Whitney Cummings was funny
till Yeah, she just recorded with her, so that's coming
out next week and it's a very very funny episode.
I love Whitney and I remember her at the birthday dinner.

(42:07):
She freaked out when she saw you. I love Whitney.
She's so fun and very quite raunchy. Yes, yes, raunchy
on the podcast. Yes, we also took a the night
at the birthday dinner, Whitney and I took an uber
home together because of an amalgamation of odd events, um,

(42:28):
and she they dropped. She dropped me off before going
to her place, but in the car was like twice
as raunchy, as like if she even appears in the pot,
it's crazy. She's just it's a bottomless pit of like
the C word and you're like, oh my god, a
bottomless pit of Phil Whitney. And then I really love Sweetie.

(42:51):
Sweetie was on our show and yeah, yeah, an amazing
artist obviously, but so sweet, very similar to Paris. Like
I feel like she's got this uh kind of popularity
right now that you would almost expect her to not
want to take a photo with anybody, and she was like,
I'm so excited to be here. I'm in Paris house,

(43:11):
could you imagine? And she was so sweet about it.
So that's so nice. People, I think, generally are I
think most people are nice. I do. I think, Uh,
I don't know. I like to try to see the
goodness and people and that one on one people are
really kind and decent. John last because he says, you know,

(43:34):
some of the people who say right nasty things about you,
meaning me on social media, would never in a million
years say those things to my face. And um, I
always and I always interpreted that people are or lost
or frustrated or lonely or feel really really bad about
themselves and that's why, you know, laughing out or criticizing

(43:59):
or are trashing other people gives them a temporary shot
of and indorphins. And um. But but I think when
push comes to shove and it's just people meeting people
without a crowd, without kind of pure pressure, and that
that they're they're pretty pretty decent. At least that's what

(44:22):
I choose to believe. Yeah, I agree with that. I think,
you know, especially the online trolls like it. It makes
it much easier for them to hide behind their computer
and anytimes the ones me and it's like, I just
feel bad for them because obviously they're just not happy
with their own lives, so they choose to come on
and be mean to others. So I just feel bad

(44:42):
for them. They're beyond Yeah. So let's talk about your
People magazine shoot, the one that you did with no makeup.
I thought that was so amazing. You look so beautiful.
You're such a natural beauty. Oh my god, I thought
I looked not so beautiful, but thank you. You know.
It's funny because you know, I've been I've been around
for a while and I know a lot of people

(45:03):
at People, and when Kate Coin, who's an editor there,
reached out and asked me about doing this, I said
what um? And then I thought it would be really cool.
And the one thing I was disappointed in is um,
it was almost, uh, this is gonna sound funny, But
I wish they had shown more of my wrinkles. Of course,

(45:26):
I might feel differently about that if I had seen it,
you know, in the magazine and thought, you know, mother
of God, what am I doing? But I sort of
thought the whole purpose of doing that was to show,
you know, to to again normalize what an older person
might look like, you know, and to not so that people.

(45:49):
I think we're so conditioned to see perfection everywhere, and
you know, people are so airbrushed and filtered, etcetera. That
I was sort of hoping they would show my face
a little more as it is instead of sort of fuzzy,
you know. Um, But I was happy. I was happy

(46:12):
to do it, and I thought, I thought they did
a really nice job at the picture. I just again,
I felt like making it so blurry kind of defeated
the purpose of the whole exercise. But I know they
think they were doing a favor, and I'm sure they were.
But I think, you know that we have to start

(46:36):
seeing people as they are, and um not not with
all this. You know. It's one thing, like to have
lights or whatever, to have a ring light or lights.
I'm dying to get the lights that Paris has around
her phone. But it's also I don't know, I I

(47:00):
don't know. I think it's a losing battle. But I
think it's important to have realistic beauty standards too, because
I think a lot of young girls try to look
like this manufactured version of beauty that doesn't really exist.
And but that that's the whole big topic about, you know,

(47:21):
culture and pressure and all that stuff. What was the
reaction from people writing you about that on your Instagram
and social media. I think they thought it was great
that I did it, And you know, I don't know.
I'm sixty. For you guys, it's sort of like, what
the hell I'll do, I'll do it. Um. It was

(47:43):
sort of nerve wracking because you are very vulnerable, um
when you're out there completely at least having your face
completely naked. So um, But I'm glad I did it.
And uh, I think, I don't know. I think the
pandemic has a lot of people thinking sort of beauty

(48:04):
standards and how they want to move in the world
and and what they want to do. You know. I
was talking to a friend of mine I had breakfast
with this morning, who I met in Miami, and I
introduced her to her husband. He was there and they're
still married. They're about to celebrate their thirty five anniversary.
And she said, Katie, why don't you let your hair

(48:25):
grow go gray? And I was like, you know, I
wish I could uh, but I'm just not quite ready to.
But again, you know, I think, I think that that
there are a lot of women who look unbelievable with
gray hair. But it's just it's just hard. And I

(48:45):
think that at some point we should celebrate beauty at
all ages, not at not ages, not not people who
are just trying to look, you know, twenty or thirty
years younger than they actually are. And so anyway, I'm
not ready to go a great yet. But one day

(49:06):
I say the same thing to my mom. All the time,
I'm like, mom, you know, because I mean we're My
mom is a bookkeeper, and so because of her, I'm
very like money conscious now, like she she's been a
very good resource and mentor in my life in that way.
And I go how much she's spent on these hair
coloring things and she tell me, and I go, chest,
go gray, you are so would be so beautiful gray,

(49:28):
like I would love it. I think everybody she goes
not yet, I'll wait a little bit longer. And you know,
with her, obviously, whatever she wants is what she deserves.
So I'm gonna wait to see my mom because I
think my mom went full great, like thirty five years old,
which is so she's been dying it for a long time. Yeah,

(49:51):
and that's a lot that You're right though, Hunter, that's
a lot of time and a lot of money and uh,
you know, to be with to do that kind of upkeep.
But um, you know, it's hard because our culture is
very youth oriented, and I think, uh, it's hard hard

(50:11):
for I think people to own their age, not to
mention at their age. So yeah, men have it easy there.
Everyone's like, go gray, You're just gonna look you know better.
You know, like men they look distinguished and women just
look old. Not not you guys, you you Paris. My
mom would all look stunning with a full head of

(50:33):
gray hair. So I say, whenever you're ready, I support it. Well,
it's so funny because I've been seeing young women now
kind of have do their hair gray. Have you guys
seen that trend? It's so interesting. It looks cool on
some people, it does, but yeah, how did that start?
Just somebody started doing that? And I think with Instagram

(50:55):
just everyone is trying different things and trying to start
new trends. So I've seen literally every single hair color,
especially during quarantine, because I feel like people are like
I'm at home. Who cares like I'm gonna dye my
hairpink I actually dyed my hairpink um during this and
it looked cool, like it looked like cotton candy. But
then I was like, I look like a raver. I

(51:15):
need to go back to my blonde. This is Paris,
this is seven sliving questions? What are today? What kind
of questions? Living? Oh? Sliving? Sorry I think you said
slitting and I was like, what, no sliving? Living? Do

(51:40):
my seven sliving questions? Please? All right? When you were little,
what did you want to be when you grew up?
A ballerina or a model? I like it. What is
the craziest rumor that you've ever heard about yourself? That
I was in a love triangle with my husband and

(52:02):
Matt lowerd interesting? What is your spirit animal? And why? God?
I don't know? Cocker spaniel because they're because they're sweet
and cute and they come up to anybody and slobber

(52:23):
all over them, which, by the way, I can't. I
couldn't have picked a better spirit animal for the spirit
that I've like met in U Katie like, I feel
like cocker spaniel is perfect. Okay, good, I've never really
been to ask that question. So, okay, what about you Paris?
I don't know if we've ever asked you a unicorn?

(52:43):
That's right, that makes perfect. What about you Hunter? I
have no idea. I maybe, um maybe like a small bear,
like just a very like timid, but I just like
to sleep and you know, I get some work done
when I need to energy efficient. I don't know, let
me think about it. Yes, what's your top beauty secret? Gratitude?

(53:16):
Beautiful answer? Loves that. What is your top three bucket
list items? Top three bucket list items? Which is hard
to say? Um, you mean things that I would like
to do before I die? Yes? Uh, well, I've done
a couple of them. I went to India with with

(53:37):
my husband Muhlner a couple of years ago, and I
had never been to India. That was on my bucket list.
Guest toasting Jeopardy was on my bucket list. I got
to do that. Uh, I'm trying to think. I think
it would probably be traveling. I've never been to New Zealand. Um,

(53:58):
and I've really I've been to Australia, but never New Zealand.
I'd like to go there. Um, I probably I've been
on a safari, but I'd like to take my girls
and John's kids and do something just with our families.
Um and gosh, I don't know, Uh, care cancer, well, yeah,

(54:23):
cure cancer is definitely on my bucket list. I'm afraid.
I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to achieve
that in my lifetime, but I hope that we'll be
able to make significant strides. And I don't know what
else is on my bucket list. You guys, I've done.
I've had such a an extraordinary life, you know. I've
just finished my memoir that it's coming out in the fall,

(54:46):
and I've been so fortunate and had so many different
experiences that you know, I've done a lot. I don't
have any desired to skydive because I'm really afraid of heights.
I don't have any desire to climb a huge mountain
because for the same reason. Um, I would like to
learn Italian because I think that would be very sexy

(55:10):
and then go to Rome and use it. So that's
probably on my bucket list. And I played the piano,
but I'd like to learn how to play another musical
instrument because it's really good for your brain and um,
it helps grow new brain cells, which is actually possible.
I interviewed Sonja Gupta about that for my podcast, and
there are a lot of things you can do to

(55:31):
actually get great your brain cells to to grow, Like
he told me to eat dinner with my left hand
instead of my right hand because it just it activates
another part of your brain. Anyway, you've got to listen
to that podcast is super interesting. So, um yeah, I
think that's probably about it. But those are pretty good
things from my bucket list. I wouldn't mind playing playing

(55:54):
the guitar. I wanted to. I've always wanted to sing,
but I can't sing, but I perform to the cabaret
and Tony Bennett sang with me for a segment I
did on The Today Show, which was really fun. And
I just want to keep having fun, doing good work,
and you know, and caring about the people I love
and trying to to leave the world off, you know,

(56:16):
leave the world a little better than I found it,
and big, you know, in ways that are big and small.
I don't know, you're kind of doing that right now
with Kitty Kirk Media. You know, I feel like a
lot of your projects are all addressing important issues, and
you have the wake up called newsletter, you have your podcasts,

(56:36):
so it feels like you're already accomplishing this bucket list item.
I'm trying, you know. I I love to work. I
think I want to work for the you know, as
long as I you know, possibly can. You know, I
still want to travel and have fun and learn new things.
But you know, that's really what my work is, learning
new things, and I like to I think I'm pretty

(56:58):
good at taking complicated topics and sort of making them
accessible and distilling them for people. So, you know, I
think this is a time of seismic ships in our
culture for the better. I think we're there's been a
real awakening of of sort of what has happened in

(57:20):
our country in the past and how we how we
can make it better and more equitable for everyone. Um
and so I think we have a lot of very big,
intractable problems. But I always have believed that you can't
come up with solutions, or you can't have consensus about

(57:42):
solutions until people are really educated about the problem in
the first place. You know, I did a whole hour
for National Geographical Confederate Statues, and I grew up in
Virginia and didn't really understand the provenance of these statues
when they were erected under what pretenses, etcetera. And many
of these schools were named after Brown, the Board of

(58:06):
Education which enterated schools in this country. And I think
just by really helping people understand the past and understand circumstances,
then we can appreciate where we are and how to
move forward. But I think that one of the things
that I loved to do and I think I do

(58:27):
well is to help really make the problem more understandable
for people so they appreciate it and then together they
can try to figure out a way forward. I don't know.
That's what I try to do, and that's why. You know,
we have this newsletter that we write every day called
wake Up Call. I'd love for your listeners to sign
up for it. You can just go to Katie correct

(58:49):
dot com. You know a lot of people aren't trusting
the media. Documentaries are really important. I'm involved in developing
some of those, and um document very film. I think
it's a great way to help people immerse themselves into
a social issue or you know, a situation and kind

(59:09):
of come out with a better understanding. But then I
have the podcast that I'm doing, and we're doing digital
shorts working with brands that care about social change and
whether it's environmental sustainability or gender equality or racial justice,
or health and wellness and how we can you know,

(59:30):
do better and live longer and be healthier. So it's
really been fun for me to find these areas of
interests and where they intersect with a lot of these
companies that I feel that, you know, with with governments
so paralyzed, a lot of companies are stepping in and

(59:50):
taking up the slack and saying, together we can help
facilitate change. So to be able to do the storytelling
you need to help change hearts and minds is a
real privilege for me. So I'm I'm having fun doing it.
And you know, as you know, you guys met John
and my husband, and he's such a brilliant businessman and he,

(01:00:14):
you know, is working his ass off running this company.
Um and we've got a lot of great people on
our team, and it's exciting for me to give people
opportunities to to learn and grow. I hope I'm I'm
able to do that. So, you know, after working for
big institutions and big companies. My whole life is really

(01:00:35):
fun to be more entrere, entrepreneurial and to do it
like in my sixties. But why not? And uh so
it's just another exciting chapter in my life. And I think,
you know, it's so important to continue learning and growing
and evolving as you get older, because you know, the
world is the really excite place and change can be scary,

(01:01:00):
but it can also be really important and really exciting.
And um so I'm I feel like I'm learning all
the time and growing and I think that's you know,
I guess what I meant by gratitude as a beauty secret.
I think I think having a curious mind and being

(01:01:20):
interested and interesting and interested in other people and what's
going on and engaged in the world. I think that's
the best beauty secret of all, because you know, you
can be a beautiful person and be just dull as dishwater.
And it's funny because Hunter and I met and I
was like, I don't know what got into me that night,

(01:01:40):
but I was just blabbing away. But it was so
fun to talk to Hunter and you know, learn about
his background and where he came from and kind of
He's very engaging conversationalists, and you know, I think you
kind of learned something from everyone you come into contact with.
And people are people are really fascinating, and I I,

(01:02:04):
you know, I sometimes go to have gone to funerals
in the past, and you hear these eulogies and you're like, wow,
I didn't know that about that person. I didn't know that,
you know, he or she did x y Z. It
made me realize how kind of cursory and superficial are
our our our interactions are with other people, and um,

(01:02:30):
you know, I think that we need to try harder
to make make real connections. I think it's not only
good for your mental health, it's good for your physical
health because loneliness is the equivalent of smoking, has the
physiological or physical impact of smoking two packs of cigarettes
a day because of the stress of loneliness and social isolation.

(01:02:54):
So I think we need to kind of rethink our
our interactions with people and don't just say how you
doing good? How are you doing good? You know, um,
but really talk about how you're doing and and ask
the right questions and make our make our conversations and
are our time together much richer and much more meaningful.

(01:03:20):
I saw on your Instagram that you went over to
Spencer Pratt's house to play with his hummingbirds. How is
that experience? It was so funny. You know, my daughter
knows that I'm obsessed with hummingbirds. Um, I just think
they're so fascinating and teeny and they're beautiful. I don't know,

(01:03:42):
you know how how colorful they are. They look like
gemstones and they're so iridescent. And so Ellie said, Mom,
you know Spencer Pratt has thousands of hummingbirds in his backyard.
And I said really, And so I d M him

(01:04:02):
and he was so sweet. I said, hey, it's Katie kurrk.
This is a really weird question, Spencer, but can I
come over and check out your hummingbirds? And uh, he
said sure. He was so nice, and he and Heidi
were as nice as they could be. Gunner, their son
is adorable. Um, you know, I didn't really watch the show.

(01:04:26):
He was on the hills, right, and I didn't that
that was sort of you know, after my time. But um,
so a lot of people, I think of a certain
age we're really into that. So I've just gotten to
know him now, and uh, he was just really really nice.
But that's one of the great things about you know,

(01:04:48):
a lot of bad things can be said about social media,
but for me to be able to reach out to
Spencer Pratt and to have this magical experience of having
a hummingbird actually perch on my thumb while it was
drinking sugar water from a hand feeder, it was so
crazy and it was just such a It was just

(01:05:11):
an incredible experience for me. So I loved it. And uh,
you know, and and Spencer is a character, right, do
you guys know him? Yes, I've known him for years.
He is a character. I think, Yeah, I like him.
I think, you know, on every reality show they need
kind of that villain so that you know, that's what
he played on the show. But I think a lot

(01:05:31):
of people play a character when they're on a reality
TV show because that's just that's how it is. I
did the same thing as well. I was in a villain.
I was kind of like the dumb blonde. But um,
I think a lot of people when they're doing a
reality show will be someone else. How much of these
reality shows do you get told how to act or

(01:05:52):
are you instructed to have a certain response or say
something that's going to create fireworks, and how much of
it happens naturally? Is it on a case by case basis?
I think a lot of it is produced, especially with
these shows that have been out for a while, because
I think that they just want to create that drama.
So a lot of these shows are actually like scripted

(01:06:13):
out where they know exactly what they're going to film
and what they're gonna say and what's going to happen. Um,
just from being in that world for so long, I've
seen it all, So yeah, some stuff maybe there isn't
Isn't there a parast show about behind the Speeds of
the Bachelor? What's that called? It was? It was descripted

(01:06:33):
on something unreal, unreal, unreal better like that. I love
the actress and that, but you know, I think that
must be hard because if you are if you were
told to be the bad guy like that, that's that's
kind of a hard reputation to shape. Well, in Paris,

(01:06:55):
you can talk about that, but when you're portrayed a
certain way and you're encouraged to be, you know, behave
in a certain way just perpetuates an image and that
must have been hard for Spencer, Uh to to have that.
I mean, I didn't watch The Hills and I know,
so I can't even talk about like all the characters
and who they were and how they acted. Um, but

(01:07:19):
I don't know. That's that's that's a big that that's
a that's kind of a risky thing to do. I
guess you know it's a job and you're it pays well,
but it must be hard to to bounce back or
to you know, portray yourself as as something different after
you've been typecast that way. Yeah, definitely. I think because

(01:07:44):
people see it's a reality show, so they assume it's
real and they don't realize that not everything is as
it seems. Were you were you a fan of The Hills? No,
I didn't watch it. I was so busy like traveling
and doing I've actually never watched any reality show except
for the Simple Life, Like, I've never seen any of

(01:08:05):
the other ones. And I watched watched Real Housewives. Oh,
I've watched that actually, yeah, in the beginning, I watched that.
And your mom is doing it, so that's exciting you guys.
I have I've probably watched a total don't tell, don't tell,
and don't tell Bravo Anti this. But I've probably watched
a total of fifteen minutes of the Real Housewives. Now.

(01:08:28):
My my daughter, uh my, both of them, but especially
my younger daughter. She loves the Real Housewives. She finds
it fascinating and you know, really, I don't really interesting
to watch. And it's just it's just she's very interested

(01:08:49):
in in pop culture and kind of highbrow, lowbrow culture
and it's not really low brow but reality TV kind
of and interpreting it, uh in a unique way. But
I've just never been drying. I've never been drawn to
those shows. Um, but they're enormously popular. I think I've

(01:09:12):
probably seen ten minutes of Keeping Up with the Kardashians.
That's enough. I should say that it's someone who works
for E but UM, yeah, I don't. I'm I'm kind
of the same way. Reality stuff has never been for me.
I kind of prefer uh, I like when the walls
are down, which I feel like in reality TV, if

(01:09:33):
walls are down, it's usually fictitious walls. It's usually for storyline,
and I that's what I really like podcasts. I really
like doing this and it's also I really enjoyed this
one in particular, but I think, um, I think Katie, Uh,
you have to go, We have to go. And it
was so lovely, um talking to you. Yes, I'm so

(01:09:57):
happy on the show. It's so on talking to both
of you. And I'm glad you're I'm glad you're having
fun with this format and uh that you're able to
you know. I think the great thing about podcasts is,
I don't know, you can learn from all these different
people and uh, you know, be like a sponge and
soak up whatever wisdom they have to offer their life experience,

(01:10:22):
and you can do it from the comfort of your
own home, especially after your vaccine Hunter. I'm so excited. Anyway,
thank you guys for having me on. It's been really fun.
And um, I hope I'll get to see you both
in person soon too and give my love to give
my love to Carter. I will definitely. Okay, thank you guys. Okay,

(01:10:48):
bye bye. Thanks for listening to This is Paris. We
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