June 5, 2024 • 29 mins
No basketball scribe in history has covered the Boston Celtics for longer and from closer range than the Hall of Famer Bob Ryan. In this edition of #thisleague UNCUT, Ryan joins Marc Stein to preview the Celtics' upcoming NBA Finals matchup with the Dallas Mavericks -- and share some stories about the glory days of NBA coverage -- through his unique Boston Globe perspective.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to this League Uncut in the rule of.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Twenty four hour NBA News. This is you, Chris Haynes.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
It's time, works time, it's so time. This League uncut
is underway and on fire. This should be a good one.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey, everyone, welcome in to a very.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Special pre finals edition of this League Uncut. Chris Haynes
is on the move, so I'm here, but not solo.
This is an absolute treat for me, a treat and
an honor to be joined by truly one of the
best who has ever done it in our business and
(00:48):
knows more about the Celtics, the favorites in these NBA
Finals than anyone I've encountered on press row. I think
the last time we actually covered something together was at
the Rio Olympic in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
But I am thrilled to be able.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
To connect with him now, the one and only Bob
Ryan from the Boston Globe. Mister Ryan, an absolute pleasure,
sir to have you on well.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Thank you for the flattering introduction.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And these finals it's so much about the Celtics, obviously.
I live in Dallas, I'm based in Dallas. I talk
Mavericks all day. I wanted to get the.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Full on Boston perspective.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
So just from your seat, I mean, you've seen this
team and I don't know how many of their twenty
three finals appearances. Close to all of them, I'm sure,
but this team in particular, facing so much championship or
bus talk.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
How do you think they're going to deal with that pressure?
Speaker 5 (01:45):
Well, for the record, my first one I actually went
to in person was sixty six Red Aurbacks last game,
Game seven against the Lakers. That's a story in itself,
and how we got the tickets. Anyway, there is one
very simple fact, and my opinion their co equal about
this finals. When the tournament, as Bill Parcells would call
(02:08):
it started, there were sixteen teams. Fifteen of them. We're
playing with house money.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
From day one.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
One had the weight of the world on its shoulders.
That one is the Boston Celtics. This is win or
bust for them. It's you know what or get off
the pot for them. And because they have knocked on
the door now with this or pair for several years
(02:38):
and they don't have they haven't closed the deal, and
here they are with really no excuses except what can
not condition what porzingis will be in having missed thirty
seven days since he's last played, so.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
We don't know how good he's going to be.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
But they now have their team intact for the first
time since period one of the first game, and they
have no excuses.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
They got to win. That's that's their perspective, So that's
that's it.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
They really haven't been tested because of course the East
has been absolutely racked by injuries. But my sense is
they're not going to apologize for that because they have
this enormous pression. You're going to take a berth in
the finals anyway it comes. But I really am curious now,
just as overwhelming favorites, how they are going to cope,
(03:28):
not only with expectations but obviously the challenges that Doncic
and Irving present to a defense.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
When when the playoffs started, our number one question with
the Celtics was how would they fare with score tied
and two minutes to go against a good team because
they had just romped through the league and including winning
three games by fifty points. I said five oho not
and it's no one that's ever done. And they were
(03:56):
a little suspect. They lost two games to Denver unless
minute or so during the season which which gave you know,
people so well. See Denver knows how to do it
and they don't yet. Okay, so there's an open question.
They haven't fosd the deal.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
You're right.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
They they were lucky in that they played Miami without Butler,
and they played Cleveland without with Mitchell hurt and then
Haliburton got hurt. So in each series there was somebody missing.
Now in Cleveland's case, Garland stepped up and made great
against them. Andy and I got some contributions for people
as well, Siakam, et cetera. Anyway, they haven't been tested fully,
(04:33):
but they've done without their Keith component. And that's Forzingis now,
as far as Dawis is concerned. From our perspective here
outsiders watching the West in the second half of the season,
we're focused on the battle at the top with those
three teams who went up in a tie, as it
turned out, not to mention the plight of the Warriors,
(04:55):
the plight of the Suns, and the plight of the Lakers.
Nobody's paying attention to DAWs at all outside of Dallas.
And there they go, and they went sixteen on eighteen
in that run. And then they lose their last two.
I don't know what happened there, but but but they
end up great. But off the radar screen completely, no
one's talking about them. Their fifth seed, right, it was
(05:16):
about Minnesota case and you know, and Denver, so they had.
They don't have outside pressure at all, you know, I
don't know what internal pressure they've created for themselves. They
deserve to be here. They won fair and square. They
beat these teams, and those two guys, the two stars,
the super are playing as well as they can play.
(05:38):
Irving it's a you know, Irving is coach is a
juicy subplot, you know, because of the return to Boston
and all that nonsense. But they've earned it and Nico
Harrison got a just reward yesterday and then Jason Kidd's
reputation is being polished up now as a coach.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
And it's all good with Dallas.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
They lose, won't they won't be happy, But the rest
there's no disgrace involved unless they get swept or something
not just like that, which I don't think is going
to happen.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, for me, it's really a second half surge kind
I don't know that we've ever seen anything like it.
And we always talk about how rare it is to
make a trade and then win it all. Obviously the
Clyde Drexler to Houston in ninety five, but the Rockets
were defending Champs.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Rashid Wallace to Detroit, No, the one I.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
Always think of. They don't win without him, and that
was a crucial Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And then Marc Gasol to Toronto in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
But like for this to come together, the MAVs made
two trades for it to come together this quickly, the
sixteen and two run you reference. I mean they were
twenty eight and twenty three on the morning of the
trade deadline. You're right, nobody saw any of this coming.
But of course, now with Kyrie going back to Boston,
how vitriolic do you think it's going to be? I mean,
(06:51):
that's one of the questions everybody's asking in the build
up to Game one.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
I don't think it's going to be as bad as
the outside will thinks will be. They'll be booze, there's
no question, I don't think. I don't think they'd be
throwing tomatoes at him or anything else. There was a
nice story in the Boston Globe today talking about how
he's been so well received in Dallas, and he's saying
kind of the right things, if you will kind of
explain away a little bit about way he was here
(07:18):
and what he wasn't said. They were outside circumstances. There
was a like a death in the family, and there
was other outside issues that were bothering him. On top
of whatever basketball is. Shoes still were and that was
five years ago. Now it's five years ago, So come on,
A lot lots happened. He's thirty one years old. At
thirty two, whatever he is, you know, he may have
abandoned some of his conspiracy theories and he seems to
(07:40):
be in the best place that he's ever been as
a professional in his head. You know, he never explained
why he left Cleveland. That was impetuous and stupid and
youthful indiscretion. Never explained it. For we knew he wanted
his own show, but he wouldn't say it. And when
he was here, I'll tell you I said three things
about him when he was here. One he's not as
smart as he thinks he is. Two, this won't be
(08:02):
his last stop a boy? Was that correct? Three he's
searching for something in life, but he doesn't know what
it is. Well, I'm starting to think he may finally
have found it and got more power to him. Fine, now,
there's never been a question about his talent, this offensive
talent he goes to. He's a skill to guard at
(08:22):
his position as we've ever seen. The Mavericks are getting
the full benefit of you, of that blossoming if you will,
So you know, I don't wish him any of your will.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
He seems to be a happy, happier guy and good.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
But yeah, there'll be some the action, but I don't
think it's going to be the story.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
You reference the nineteen sixty six finals being the first
you attended. I'm gonna guess that was still as a
young fan and not already.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Oh no, I was a junior Boston College. And here's
the story. They win Game six in LA and tickets
go on sale for Game seven. In those days, they
weren't selling out.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Automatically every night, even in the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
They would always get there and you could buy four
tickets per person, and we sent one of our guys
in the dorm down to sleep overnight at.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
The Boston Garden with you to how you did it.
That's how you got tickets.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
You slept overnight in the lobby and you got tickets,
and so he would get one set of those tickets
and the other three tickets were a lottery, and I
won one of the lottery, you know, the dorm lottery
to get that ticket, which is how I got the
red hour backs last game.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
So that's how it was.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
How do you plan to consume these finals? Do you
still go to the home games? Or you just take
it all in at home?
Speaker 5 (09:35):
That graciously granted me a credential because I retired officially
at twenty twelve. I haven't covered anything since twenty twelve,
but I still do podcasts.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
I do stuff.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
I write Sunday every other Sunday anyway, So I'm planning
on being in present and accounted for on Thursday night
at the Boston Garden.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yes, given your scene it all status, and again I
mean you you know, I'm not sure how many of
the listeners, but you know I've certainly studied it to agree.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I'm sure there's a lot I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
But of course I got to work for Dave Smith
in Dallas, and I know he was your former sports
editor with the Globe, and the way I've always understood
the stories that the two of you, in essence basically
created the Sunday Notes page that I love so much.
When you were still a Celtics beat writer.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
Dave took the boss of BILP sports section and turned
it into a piece of journalistic art, if you will,
and emphasis heavily on the notes. I first met my
first notes column in the summer in nineteen seventy, after
my first year on.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
The beat in sixty nine to seventy.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
The person who set the bar raised the bar for
the notes columns was Peter Gammons with baseball period. Peter's
baseball notes columns were unsurpassed, and I did my very best,
and we were friends from day one. We started the
Globe the same day June ten, nineteen sixty eight, this
summer interns and which used to have an anniversary coming
up next Monday. But anyway, I did my best to
(10:57):
match Peter Gammons's expertise in baseball with my basketball. But
Dave was a tremendous sports editor for the Globe. At
that point, it was just a Sunday sports editor. He
later became the sports editor. That Sunday sports page was
his baby. At the time, and he turned it as
something that really has never been equaled, frankly.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
In American sports journalism, not the way it was at
the Globe in those days.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
I still try to do Sunday notes, but it just
doesn't look quite as pretty on a computer screen as
it does when it when you have a whole page
of NBA notes, That one full broadsheet newspaper page with
nothing but NBA on it is.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
You know, we had in our peak, of course, in
addition to the four major sports golf, tennis, we had
the great Bud Collins, the greatest American tennis writer or
whoever lived Bud Collins writing. We had Jokin Caannon who
wrote road racing when that was you know, in the
aftermath the Bill Rogers winning the Marathon at seventy six
and set off a road racing craze around here. So
(11:59):
in college college notes as well, all these notes are
you know, is uh. At the same time those days
are gone, the big four are still around. You know
that we still have our notes on football, basketball, hockey,
and baseball, but but we don't have the notes the
way we used to have all the others.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
That was that was the golden era, the old the
eighties were the golden era for a lot.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
Of things, and and and and the NBA particularly and
certainly journalism.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
It was.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
So Having covered the league for as long as you have,
I'd love to hear your thoughts on Dancic.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
What strikes you about his game, what you like, what
you don't like?
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Give me just your view of There's only one don't
you make of donches to this point, there's only.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
One don't like, and it's what everybody knows. You know,
stop complaining. You know, the whining thing is, it's tedious,
it's old. Now you you've been around to stop it,
you know, come on, just play now. Everything else he's extraordinary,
and the shot making, the court vision that the remarkable.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Way that he goes about at his pace.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
I'm going to use a reference that probably will be
over the head of too many of the younger people.
He doesn't go at seventy eight, he doesn't go at
forty five. He goes at thirty three and at third rpm,
and no one disrupts him. He does his piece, that's
his pace, and no one can bother him. He goes
wherever he wants to go, and nobody stops him. He's
(13:28):
a pleasure to watch. It's all there's to it. And
then the shot making, I mean obviously is extraordinary. You know,
he's just he's great, and he and djokitch of you know,
you have to stink of them in the same vein that.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Really and they are.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
They're remarkable and you know, the world's ucky to the
best bowl, world's lucky to have him.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I mean all season long, when I've talked about the Celtics,
I mean, look, their regular season resume is ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
It's one of the best we've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Okay, they didn't make a run at seventy two or
seventy three wins, but apart from that, their regular season
resume has everything. But I have to admit from Afar
from fifteen hundred miles away, and I haven't seen them
as much as you, but I still don't fully trust them.
Maybe it is the crunch time failings that you stick
(14:16):
with me, but like I haven't fully shaken the skepticism.
And this is the series that they're going to have
to do it and can do it once and for all.
But Tatum and Brown as a duo, just where do
they kind of fall in terms of the Celtics pantheon
and how they're viewed locally.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
Well, one of the problems when you come along in
Boston is that you're now bucking the history.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
You're now being thrusted into the history.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Of course, we've had some duos, of course, starting out
with Kuzi and Russell, and later Cowans and Hablet check
shall we say, and of course Bird and the Kale.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
But Parish makes.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Three, you know, yeah, and now the latest one of
course when the championship was Garnett and Pierson down grenad
and Pierce.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
They're making their mark there.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
They needed they need a ring that fully enter into
the discussion. But both you know, but the Tatum, particularly
his hors historical ranking. You know, we've got you know,
our Rushmore all Time five kind of thing going, and
and he's knocking on the door to get included in
that all time five thing.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
It's no doubt.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
Uh, they're they're not the same player, They're different, you know,
he and Brown. I think they've become very complamentary. That's
what a E as well as I. And it's it's
a power. It's a formidable duo. And they can go
out and get you sixty and they've done it. You know,
more than one stif each had thirty point games. Tatum
has made himself into a pretty damn good defender. Brown
(15:43):
originally that was his calling card, and he's back playing
the way he used he once played defense. Uh, the
big problem with Brown has been ball handling and turnovers
and bad judgment and drimming into crowds.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
And he doesn't go to his left particularly well even now.
But boy does he go to his right strong. And
he's a great finisher and his three point shooting has
gotten better in the current NBA.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
They're in the discussion is the best duo and sixty
four wins is certainly a testament to that. And you're right,
your skepticism is warranted. That's still the story here until
they do it. You know, the people are not fully
buying into their any historical greatness or anything like that
until they win a championship. Until they and you have
to figure somewhere along the way, you're going to have
(16:26):
to do it in the finals by winning a close game.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
You're not going to win four games by twenty.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
That final exam. It's a final exam, and we'll see
how they they pass.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
It's past fail.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Well, every guy in this team can shoot the three ball,
and that's something Dallas hasn't seen. Oklahoma City and Minnesota,
their last two playoff opponents, definitely had limitations when it
came to stretching the floor, and Dallas exploited that this
is going to be a completely different situation.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
But just I think I know the answer.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
But I want to ask you a team that shoots
from deep as much as these Celtics, what is that
viewing experience like for you?
Speaker 5 (17:09):
You're talking to someone who is who believes that the
three point shot is the worst thing that happen in
basketball in my lifetime, and it has distorted the game
at every level and now is unfortunately, it's become the
currency of the game. So you know, it's a live
by it, die by it circumstance some nights. And this
is why I get so frustrated. And this is where
(17:30):
Perzingis now can fit in in a way that they
have not had in the past. They've got an option
now than a seven foot three guy who actually does
know his way around basket as well as being able
to shoot the three. But he gives you an option
that you don't have to rank up another three.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
It worries me.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
I mean, you know there are highly dependent on it
and yet are good at it. They had a game
this year which all starting five at at least three each,
and to come off the bench with two three point
shooters Richard and Hauser. Now, Sam Hauser has been in
a slump. He had a very good year, but he's
had a bad he's had a bad playoffs so far
shooting and well the time off, you know, has he
(18:11):
been able to get a shot back in this ten days?
It'll be between their last game and Thursday night. But
right A Horford shoots threes. They all shoot threes, You're right,
and back where both of them do, White and Holiday
and of course Tatum and Brown. Yeah, it's the three shot.
Point shots are everywhere. But that's the tricky thing for
any team that is it. Do you will you accept
(18:33):
oh it's not our knight and go try to win
another way? You know that that's been a question here.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, and then Porzingis.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
And when Porzingis was in Dallas, I was amazed, obviously
having covered pretty much every dribble of Novitzky's career, and
you know, he really is the one who to me,
revolutionized the game. In terms of making it acceptable and
even desired for the seven foot or to step out
and shoot the three.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
But porzingis I mean he range. He shoots it with such.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Ease, five seven, ten feet farther away than the line sometimes,
I mean he just makes it look so easy.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
He shoots it from Caitlyn Clarkland, which we used to
call curry Land but now it's Clarkland. My mouth drops
open sometimes when I say I'm going he's not going
to it? Yeah he is, He's got I'm serious. Yeah,
you're absolutely right, that is at seven to three. That
the range of factor is not just his foot's on
the line. Boy, I know you're right, he's three and
four feet behind that line.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Yeah, it's it's a phenomenon.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
It's it's the new world, you know. And look at
when Beyana. You know he's going to he's the next one.
He shoots them from from down there. And I'll tell
you he had a tremendous year. And right from the
beginning he was impactful, and he was impactful in defense
as well. And he passes better than I had no
idea whether he's had any court vision.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
At all, Well, he does. And he had a really
outstanding year.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
But the number one thing has been, you know, keep
him on the floor. It's always been the case, and
and they weren't able to do it so far in
the playoffs. And now here he is and we'll see
how far he goes.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, I mean, his playoff resume is so limited as
it is.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And now, like you said, you know, he's missed nearly
forty days and has to come back and play a
key role in the series. I mean, it's as much
a key variable as anything in this series.
Speaker 5 (20:18):
But a good thing about having him back against this
team is with those two young aerial artists centers there,
Gafford and Lively, you know, we know the nature of
their game, we know how they play, we know the
things that they bring to the table for Dallas and
absent him, they're not too big. But with him and there,
you know, there's a possible you know, antidote to the
(20:41):
antics of Messrs Gafford and Lively.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
But I mean, I think Lively is going to be
a really good player.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Now that's going to turn out he's the god's end
of their So.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
That's going to turn out to be a hell of
a pick. And you know, I mean Gafford is that
think he does what he does.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
He's not going to bro out in this game, but lively,
I think he really got something nice there.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Well, as you mentioned, you're still writing every other Sunday
in the Globe and you remain must read to this day.
And I wanted to ask you because I know you
wrote a piece about Bill Walton, someone we both dearly
loved being around. I know you got to cover him.
I didn't get to cover him as a player. I
only got to know him in his broadcasting incarnation. But
I would love to hear a reflection or two just
(21:29):
about Bill, because I think he's just one of the truly,
truly unique and enduring characters that this league has ever seen.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Yeah, there was nobody like him.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
He occupied a specific niche first of all, as a player,
he was a human clinic as a five man, all
that nobody occupies today because the center position has been
devalued and changed. But in the old days, when we
played real basketball, before the three point hostile takeover of
the sport, you know, this guy showed you how to
(22:03):
play a position as well as anyone who's ever played it.
Health was his issue, of course, and you know in
fourteen seasons. He missed three full seasons and his final
season only played ten games because of injury. So his
career doesn't stack up the way with the great players, but.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
His short term does, and at his best.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
He was as good as has ever been at both
ends of the floor, bust, rebounding, and of course the
best passing center until Jokich now who is challenging him
for that historical honor and no one else. Those are
the two, So let's stop the discussion right there. So
it's either one of those two or the best passing
center ever. As a guy, Bill was just the most enthusiastic.
(22:48):
He was enthusiastic about everything. When he got into something,
you get into something, you know. You could start with
the grateful dead thing, you know. I mean that is
well documented. I have been to his house to see
the collection of grateful dead instrument that he has in
his first floor of his house, among many other incredible
collection of things he has in this he had in
his house. But the dead thing was when he got
(23:09):
into them. He got into them, you know, and you
know we all know that. But he was just an
enthusiastic person. And this is from a guy you know,
and you know everyone who knows him.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Though.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
He was famous for ending communications and ending phone conversations
by saying, I'm the luckiest.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Man in the world.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
This is a guy who at one point had such
debilitating back pain that he considered suicide. And at one point,
this goes back about twenty some years ago before he
finally got picked up and got some fusion and got
his back straightened out to a where he could refunction.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
But that this is a guy. So here's a guy
who had a near.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Death experience who's telling us he's the luckiest man in
the world, and he believed it.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
There's no replacing Bill Walton. He was especially even.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Being Yeah, no question, I mean I got to know him.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
I was My first job covering the league was as
a Clippers beat writer. He was a Clippers announcer, and
very soon into my beat writing life, he would call
me and ask me for reflections, information, rumblings, and I'm
sitting there thinking every time, I was so what can
I tell Bill Walton in the basketball He made you
feel like the most important person.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
He gues and so many people, I mean the breadth
of reaction, you know, the people, so many people that
he would make feel where you're, you know, your best
if not your best friend, you're in their inner.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Circle, you know. I mean, he God knows how many
hundreds of people with that that came away with that
takeaway from him.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Last thing before I let you go here, there's about
twenty five more things I want to ask you about.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
But I did want to ask about this.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
One because I heard you tell this story once and
I just I had to ask about it again.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I think it was the seventy six finals.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
You said you covered it and Paul Westfall by that
point was a son now and just covering that finals
after covering him previously. Just if you could walk me
through the seventy six finals.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
The whole thing was that at that point Tommy Heinsen
and I were having a bit of a of a
journal of a professional falling out, shall we say, And
after the first game of the series, I wrote a
column and he came in and was fuming about the
column and saying that I that people could get their
game plan by buying the paper and it was not
not so It's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
He was.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
He just was over the top of it. So when
we got the Phoenix for games three, and four. Rather
than the state at the hotel with everybody else, I
stayed at west falls house and we went back for
a game six.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
I stayed at west Fall's house.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
So this has got to be the first and only
time that the primary journalistic, uh you know, person of
covering a team stayed at the home of the best
player of the other team. And but I gotta tell
you quick my favorite anecdote that comes out of that.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
So Paul had a pool.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
Swimming pool, and of course we we have a time
difference in my you know, I have that right quickly
to get back to Boston.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
So I'd be done writing about three or four o'clock
in the afternoon.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
At Phoenix time, and I'd go to the pool with
Paul and his neighbor, Alvin Adams lived down the street,
and somebody else came. And there was another guy who
would come and he had nowhere else to go, something
to do, hung out at the pool. And he was
the guy who was the thirteenth man on the twelve
man roster. He was the son who got left out,
(26:25):
some guy named Riley. So yeah, thattt Riley was just
very happy to have a chance to hang out of
Paul west Fall's pool too, So it was a very
social series.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
But that's what I say now.
Speaker 5 (26:38):
The longest and the short of it is that I
got off the beat that year and I didn't have
to be around Tom Heinsen for but we we vounded
each other at a testimonial dinner for his old roommate,
Jim Blusketof, and I was there and he was there,
and I want to him with the bar and I said, well,
it's spoiled your evening if I say hello.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
And he said now.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
And that was the beginning of forty two years of
we were friends, no problem.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
It was over. No longer the day to day and
it was over.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
So with all that all came out of the seventy six,
the seventy six series against Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I mean, I'm trying to picture it.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I've now heard you tell the story twice, but I
still can't really imagine hanging out with Westy and Ryles
like that during the finals.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
But Riles, Yeah, Ryles, that was he was, you know,
he was the guy left off the roster and yeah
he got you know, his path to becoming pat Riley
and he worked a carpenter or something at one point
and then of course he was chick. He then became
Chick Hern's you know guy, his color man, not the
chick ever needed one or made much use of one.
(27:46):
And then eventually he was assistant coach and West had
got fired and he got the job, and and and
the rest is, they say, is great NBA history. Pat
Riley becomes the great.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Guru, another one of a kind of personality in this league,
as are you, sir, and I am so grateful that
we were able to connect and do this. I won't
be at Game one or Game two, but I hope
I make it to five or seven so I can
see you in person, shake your hand and thank you
for doing this. Fantastic to get your perspective on these Celtics.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Entirely welcome.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
There he goes the Hall of Famer Bob Ryan.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
That will do it for this edition of This League, Uncut.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Chris and I will.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Be back together again very soon for another episode. As always,
please follow rate review the show, stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
We'll do it again very very soon.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
And that'll do it for us. See you next time.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
This League uncutage and iHeartRadio production.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Chris Hanes and Mark Stein
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Defict
Welcome to this League Uncut in the rule of.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Twenty four hour NBA News. This is you, Chris Haynes.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
It's time, works time, it's so time. This League uncut
is underway and on fire. This should be a good one.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey, everyone, welcome in to a very.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Special pre finals edition of this League Uncut. Chris Haynes
is on the move, so I'm here, but not solo.
This is an absolute treat for me, a treat and
an honor to be joined by truly one of the
best who has ever done it in our business and
(00:48):
knows more about the Celtics, the favorites in these NBA
Finals than anyone I've encountered on press row. I think
the last time we actually covered something together was at
the Rio Olympic in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
But I am thrilled to be able.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
To connect with him now, the one and only Bob
Ryan from the Boston Globe. Mister Ryan, an absolute pleasure,
sir to have you on well.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Thank you for the flattering introduction.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And these finals it's so much about the Celtics, obviously.
I live in Dallas, I'm based in Dallas. I talk
Mavericks all day. I wanted to get the.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Full on Boston perspective.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
So just from your seat, I mean, you've seen this
team and I don't know how many of their twenty
three finals appearances. Close to all of them, I'm sure,
but this team in particular, facing so much championship or
bus talk.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
How do you think they're going to deal with that pressure?
Speaker 5 (01:45):
Well, for the record, my first one I actually went
to in person was sixty six Red Aurbacks last game,
Game seven against the Lakers. That's a story in itself,
and how we got the tickets. Anyway, there is one
very simple fact, and my opinion their co equal about
this finals. When the tournament, as Bill Parcells would call
(02:08):
it started, there were sixteen teams. Fifteen of them. We're
playing with house money.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
From day one.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
One had the weight of the world on its shoulders.
That one is the Boston Celtics. This is win or
bust for them. It's you know what or get off
the pot for them. And because they have knocked on
the door now with this or pair for several years
(02:38):
and they don't have they haven't closed the deal, and
here they are with really no excuses except what can
not condition what porzingis will be in having missed thirty
seven days since he's last played, so.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
We don't know how good he's going to be.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
But they now have their team intact for the first
time since period one of the first game, and they
have no excuses.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
They got to win. That's that's their perspective, So that's
that's it.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
They really haven't been tested because of course the East
has been absolutely racked by injuries. But my sense is
they're not going to apologize for that because they have
this enormous pression. You're going to take a berth in
the finals anyway it comes. But I really am curious now,
just as overwhelming favorites, how they are going to cope,
(03:28):
not only with expectations but obviously the challenges that Doncic
and Irving present to a defense.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
When when the playoffs started, our number one question with
the Celtics was how would they fare with score tied
and two minutes to go against a good team because
they had just romped through the league and including winning
three games by fifty points. I said five oho not
and it's no one that's ever done. And they were
(03:56):
a little suspect. They lost two games to Denver unless
minute or so during the season which which gave you know,
people so well. See Denver knows how to do it
and they don't yet. Okay, so there's an open question.
They haven't fosd the deal.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
You're right.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
They they were lucky in that they played Miami without Butler,
and they played Cleveland without with Mitchell hurt and then
Haliburton got hurt. So in each series there was somebody missing.
Now in Cleveland's case, Garland stepped up and made great
against them. Andy and I got some contributions for people
as well, Siakam, et cetera. Anyway, they haven't been tested fully,
(04:33):
but they've done without their Keith component. And that's Forzingis now,
as far as Dawis is concerned. From our perspective here
outsiders watching the West in the second half of the season,
we're focused on the battle at the top with those
three teams who went up in a tie, as it
turned out, not to mention the plight of the Warriors,
(04:55):
the plight of the Suns, and the plight of the Lakers.
Nobody's paying attention to DAWs at all outside of Dallas.
And there they go, and they went sixteen on eighteen
in that run. And then they lose their last two.
I don't know what happened there, but but but they
end up great. But off the radar screen completely, no
one's talking about them. Their fifth seed, right, it was
(05:16):
about Minnesota case and you know, and Denver, so they had.
They don't have outside pressure at all, you know, I
don't know what internal pressure they've created for themselves. They
deserve to be here. They won fair and square. They
beat these teams, and those two guys, the two stars,
the super are playing as well as they can play.
(05:38):
Irving it's a you know, Irving is coach is a
juicy subplot, you know, because of the return to Boston
and all that nonsense. But they've earned it and Nico
Harrison got a just reward yesterday and then Jason Kidd's
reputation is being polished up now as a coach.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
And it's all good with Dallas.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
They lose, won't they won't be happy, But the rest
there's no disgrace involved unless they get swept or something
not just like that, which I don't think is going
to happen.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, for me, it's really a second half surge kind
I don't know that we've ever seen anything like it.
And we always talk about how rare it is to
make a trade and then win it all. Obviously the
Clyde Drexler to Houston in ninety five, but the Rockets
were defending Champs.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Rashid Wallace to Detroit, No, the one I.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
Always think of. They don't win without him, and that
was a crucial Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And then Marc Gasol to Toronto in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
But like for this to come together, the MAVs made
two trades for it to come together this quickly, the
sixteen and two run you reference. I mean they were
twenty eight and twenty three on the morning of the
trade deadline. You're right, nobody saw any of this coming.
But of course, now with Kyrie going back to Boston,
how vitriolic do you think it's going to be? I mean,
(06:51):
that's one of the questions everybody's asking in the build
up to Game one.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
I don't think it's going to be as bad as
the outside will thinks will be. They'll be booze, there's
no question, I don't think. I don't think they'd be
throwing tomatoes at him or anything else. There was a
nice story in the Boston Globe today talking about how
he's been so well received in Dallas, and he's saying
kind of the right things, if you will kind of
explain away a little bit about way he was here
(07:18):
and what he wasn't said. They were outside circumstances. There
was a like a death in the family, and there
was other outside issues that were bothering him. On top
of whatever basketball is. Shoes still were and that was
five years ago. Now it's five years ago, So come on,
A lot lots happened. He's thirty one years old. At
thirty two, whatever he is, you know, he may have
abandoned some of his conspiracy theories and he seems to
(07:40):
be in the best place that he's ever been as
a professional in his head. You know, he never explained
why he left Cleveland. That was impetuous and stupid and
youthful indiscretion. Never explained it. For we knew he wanted
his own show, but he wouldn't say it. And when
he was here, I'll tell you I said three things
about him when he was here. One he's not as
smart as he thinks he is. Two, this won't be
(08:02):
his last stop a boy? Was that correct? Three he's
searching for something in life, but he doesn't know what
it is. Well, I'm starting to think he may finally
have found it and got more power to him. Fine, now,
there's never been a question about his talent, this offensive
talent he goes to. He's a skill to guard at
(08:22):
his position as we've ever seen. The Mavericks are getting
the full benefit of you, of that blossoming if you will,
So you know, I don't wish him any of your will.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
He seems to be a happy, happier guy and good.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
But yeah, there'll be some the action, but I don't
think it's going to be the story.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
You reference the nineteen sixty six finals being the first
you attended. I'm gonna guess that was still as a
young fan and not already.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Oh no, I was a junior Boston College. And here's
the story. They win Game six in LA and tickets
go on sale for Game seven. In those days, they
weren't selling out.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Automatically every night, even in the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
They would always get there and you could buy four
tickets per person, and we sent one of our guys
in the dorm down to sleep overnight at.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
The Boston Garden with you to how you did it.
That's how you got tickets.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
You slept overnight in the lobby and you got tickets,
and so he would get one set of those tickets
and the other three tickets were a lottery, and I
won one of the lottery, you know, the dorm lottery
to get that ticket, which is how I got the
red hour backs last game.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
So that's how it was.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
How do you plan to consume these finals? Do you
still go to the home games? Or you just take
it all in at home?
Speaker 5 (09:35):
That graciously granted me a credential because I retired officially
at twenty twelve. I haven't covered anything since twenty twelve,
but I still do podcasts.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
I do stuff.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
I write Sunday every other Sunday anyway, So I'm planning
on being in present and accounted for on Thursday night
at the Boston Garden.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yes, given your scene it all status, and again I
mean you you know, I'm not sure how many of
the listeners, but you know I've certainly studied it to agree.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I'm sure there's a lot I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
But of course I got to work for Dave Smith
in Dallas, and I know he was your former sports
editor with the Globe, and the way I've always understood
the stories that the two of you, in essence basically
created the Sunday Notes page that I love so much.
When you were still a Celtics beat writer.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
Dave took the boss of BILP sports section and turned
it into a piece of journalistic art, if you will,
and emphasis heavily on the notes. I first met my
first notes column in the summer in nineteen seventy, after
my first year on.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
The beat in sixty nine to seventy.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
The person who set the bar raised the bar for
the notes columns was Peter Gammons with baseball period. Peter's
baseball notes columns were unsurpassed, and I did my very best,
and we were friends from day one. We started the
Globe the same day June ten, nineteen sixty eight, this
summer interns and which used to have an anniversary coming
up next Monday. But anyway, I did my best to
(10:57):
match Peter Gammons's expertise in baseball with my basketball. But
Dave was a tremendous sports editor for the Globe. At
that point, it was just a Sunday sports editor. He
later became the sports editor. That Sunday sports page was
his baby. At the time, and he turned it as
something that really has never been equaled, frankly.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
In American sports journalism, not the way it was at
the Globe in those days.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
I still try to do Sunday notes, but it just
doesn't look quite as pretty on a computer screen as
it does when it when you have a whole page
of NBA notes, That one full broadsheet newspaper page with
nothing but NBA on it is.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
You know, we had in our peak, of course, in
addition to the four major sports golf, tennis, we had
the great Bud Collins, the greatest American tennis writer or
whoever lived Bud Collins writing. We had Jokin Caannon who
wrote road racing when that was you know, in the
aftermath the Bill Rogers winning the Marathon at seventy six
and set off a road racing craze around here. So
(11:59):
in college college notes as well, all these notes are
you know, is uh. At the same time those days
are gone, the big four are still around. You know
that we still have our notes on football, basketball, hockey,
and baseball, but but we don't have the notes the
way we used to have all the others.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
That was that was the golden era, the old the
eighties were the golden era for a lot.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
Of things, and and and and the NBA particularly and
certainly journalism.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
It was.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
So Having covered the league for as long as you have,
I'd love to hear your thoughts on Dancic.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
What strikes you about his game, what you like, what
you don't like?
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Give me just your view of There's only one don't
you make of donches to this point, there's only.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
One don't like, and it's what everybody knows. You know,
stop complaining. You know, the whining thing is, it's tedious,
it's old. Now you you've been around to stop it,
you know, come on, just play now. Everything else he's extraordinary,
and the shot making, the court vision that the remarkable.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Way that he goes about at his pace.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
I'm going to use a reference that probably will be
over the head of too many of the younger people.
He doesn't go at seventy eight, he doesn't go at
forty five. He goes at thirty three and at third rpm,
and no one disrupts him. He does his piece, that's
his pace, and no one can bother him. He goes
wherever he wants to go, and nobody stops him. He's
(13:28):
a pleasure to watch. It's all there's to it. And
then the shot making, I mean obviously is extraordinary. You know,
he's just he's great, and he and djokitch of you know,
you have to stink of them in the same vein that.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Really and they are.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
They're remarkable and you know, the world's ucky to the
best bowl, world's lucky to have him.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I mean all season long, when I've talked about the Celtics,
I mean, look, their regular season resume is ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
It's one of the best we've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Okay, they didn't make a run at seventy two or
seventy three wins, but apart from that, their regular season
resume has everything. But I have to admit from Afar
from fifteen hundred miles away, and I haven't seen them
as much as you, but I still don't fully trust them.
Maybe it is the crunch time failings that you stick
(14:16):
with me, but like I haven't fully shaken the skepticism.
And this is the series that they're going to have
to do it and can do it once and for all.
But Tatum and Brown as a duo, just where do
they kind of fall in terms of the Celtics pantheon
and how they're viewed locally.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
Well, one of the problems when you come along in
Boston is that you're now bucking the history.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
You're now being thrusted into the history.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Of course, we've had some duos, of course, starting out
with Kuzi and Russell, and later Cowans and Hablet check
shall we say, and of course Bird and the Kale.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
But Parish makes.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Three, you know, yeah, and now the latest one of
course when the championship was Garnett and Pierson down grenad
and Pierce.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
They're making their mark there.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
They needed they need a ring that fully enter into
the discussion. But both you know, but the Tatum, particularly
his hors historical ranking. You know, we've got you know,
our Rushmore all Time five kind of thing going, and
and he's knocking on the door to get included in
that all time five thing.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
It's no doubt.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
Uh, they're they're not the same player, They're different, you know,
he and Brown. I think they've become very complamentary. That's
what a E as well as I. And it's it's
a power. It's a formidable duo. And they can go
out and get you sixty and they've done it. You know,
more than one stif each had thirty point games. Tatum
has made himself into a pretty damn good defender. Brown
(15:43):
originally that was his calling card, and he's back playing
the way he used he once played defense. Uh, the
big problem with Brown has been ball handling and turnovers
and bad judgment and drimming into crowds.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
And he doesn't go to his left particularly well even now.
But boy does he go to his right strong. And
he's a great finisher and his three point shooting has
gotten better in the current NBA.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
They're in the discussion is the best duo and sixty
four wins is certainly a testament to that. And you're right,
your skepticism is warranted. That's still the story here until
they do it. You know, the people are not fully
buying into their any historical greatness or anything like that
until they win a championship. Until they and you have
to figure somewhere along the way, you're going to have
(16:26):
to do it in the finals by winning a close game.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
You're not going to win four games by twenty.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
That final exam. It's a final exam, and we'll see
how they they pass.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
It's past fail.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Well, every guy in this team can shoot the three ball,
and that's something Dallas hasn't seen. Oklahoma City and Minnesota,
their last two playoff opponents, definitely had limitations when it
came to stretching the floor, and Dallas exploited that this
is going to be a completely different situation.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
But just I think I know the answer.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
But I want to ask you a team that shoots
from deep as much as these Celtics, what is that
viewing experience like for you?
Speaker 5 (17:09):
You're talking to someone who is who believes that the
three point shot is the worst thing that happen in
basketball in my lifetime, and it has distorted the game
at every level and now is unfortunately, it's become the
currency of the game. So you know, it's a live
by it, die by it circumstance some nights. And this
is why I get so frustrated. And this is where
(17:30):
Perzingis now can fit in in a way that they
have not had in the past. They've got an option
now than a seven foot three guy who actually does
know his way around basket as well as being able
to shoot the three. But he gives you an option
that you don't have to rank up another three.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
It worries me.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
I mean, you know there are highly dependent on it
and yet are good at it. They had a game
this year which all starting five at at least three each,
and to come off the bench with two three point
shooters Richard and Hauser. Now, Sam Hauser has been in
a slump. He had a very good year, but he's
had a bad he's had a bad playoffs so far
shooting and well the time off, you know, has he
(18:11):
been able to get a shot back in this ten days?
It'll be between their last game and Thursday night. But
right A Horford shoots threes. They all shoot threes, You're right,
and back where both of them do, White and Holiday
and of course Tatum and Brown. Yeah, it's the three shot.
Point shots are everywhere. But that's the tricky thing for
any team that is it. Do you will you accept
(18:33):
oh it's not our knight and go try to win
another way? You know that that's been a question here.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, and then Porzingis.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
And when Porzingis was in Dallas, I was amazed, obviously
having covered pretty much every dribble of Novitzky's career, and
you know, he really is the one who to me,
revolutionized the game. In terms of making it acceptable and
even desired for the seven foot or to step out
and shoot the three.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
But porzingis I mean he range. He shoots it with such.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Ease, five seven, ten feet farther away than the line sometimes,
I mean he just makes it look so easy.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
He shoots it from Caitlyn Clarkland, which we used to
call curry Land but now it's Clarkland. My mouth drops
open sometimes when I say I'm going he's not going
to it? Yeah he is, He's got I'm serious. Yeah,
you're absolutely right, that is at seven to three. That
the range of factor is not just his foot's on
the line. Boy, I know you're right, he's three and
four feet behind that line.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Yeah, it's it's a phenomenon.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
It's it's the new world, you know. And look at
when Beyana. You know he's going to he's the next one.
He shoots them from from down there. And I'll tell
you he had a tremendous year. And right from the
beginning he was impactful, and he was impactful in defense
as well. And he passes better than I had no
idea whether he's had any court vision.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
At all, Well, he does. And he had a really
outstanding year.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
But the number one thing has been, you know, keep
him on the floor. It's always been the case, and
and they weren't able to do it so far in
the playoffs. And now here he is and we'll see
how far he goes.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, I mean, his playoff resume is so limited as
it is.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And now, like you said, you know, he's missed nearly
forty days and has to come back and play a
key role in the series. I mean, it's as much
a key variable as anything in this series.
Speaker 5 (20:18):
But a good thing about having him back against this
team is with those two young aerial artists centers there,
Gafford and Lively, you know, we know the nature of
their game, we know how they play, we know the
things that they bring to the table for Dallas and
absent him, they're not too big. But with him and there,
you know, there's a possible you know, antidote to the
(20:41):
antics of Messrs Gafford and Lively.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
But I mean, I think Lively is going to be
a really good player.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Now that's going to turn out he's the god's end
of their So.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
That's going to turn out to be a hell of
a pick. And you know, I mean Gafford is that
think he does what he does.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
He's not going to bro out in this game, but lively,
I think he really got something nice there.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Well, as you mentioned, you're still writing every other Sunday
in the Globe and you remain must read to this day.
And I wanted to ask you because I know you
wrote a piece about Bill Walton, someone we both dearly
loved being around. I know you got to cover him.
I didn't get to cover him as a player. I
only got to know him in his broadcasting incarnation. But
I would love to hear a reflection or two just
(21:29):
about Bill, because I think he's just one of the truly,
truly unique and enduring characters that this league has ever seen.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Yeah, there was nobody like him.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
He occupied a specific niche first of all, as a player,
he was a human clinic as a five man, all
that nobody occupies today because the center position has been
devalued and changed. But in the old days, when we
played real basketball, before the three point hostile takeover of
the sport, you know, this guy showed you how to
(22:03):
play a position as well as anyone who's ever played it.
Health was his issue, of course, and you know in
fourteen seasons. He missed three full seasons and his final
season only played ten games because of injury. So his
career doesn't stack up the way with the great players, but.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
His short term does, and at his best.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
He was as good as has ever been at both
ends of the floor, bust, rebounding, and of course the
best passing center until Jokich now who is challenging him
for that historical honor and no one else. Those are
the two, So let's stop the discussion right there. So
it's either one of those two or the best passing
center ever. As a guy, Bill was just the most enthusiastic.
(22:48):
He was enthusiastic about everything. When he got into something,
you get into something, you know. You could start with
the grateful dead thing, you know. I mean that is
well documented. I have been to his house to see
the collection of grateful dead instrument that he has in
his first floor of his house, among many other incredible
collection of things he has in this he had in
his house. But the dead thing was when he got
(23:09):
into them. He got into them, you know, and you
know we all know that. But he was just an
enthusiastic person. And this is from a guy you know,
and you know everyone who knows him.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Though.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
He was famous for ending communications and ending phone conversations
by saying, I'm the luckiest.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Man in the world.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
This is a guy who at one point had such
debilitating back pain that he considered suicide. And at one point,
this goes back about twenty some years ago before he
finally got picked up and got some fusion and got
his back straightened out to a where he could refunction.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
But that this is a guy. So here's a guy
who had a near.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Death experience who's telling us he's the luckiest man in
the world, and he believed it.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
There's no replacing Bill Walton. He was especially even.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Being Yeah, no question, I mean I got to know him.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
I was My first job covering the league was as
a Clippers beat writer. He was a Clippers announcer, and
very soon into my beat writing life, he would call
me and ask me for reflections, information, rumblings, and I'm
sitting there thinking every time, I was so what can
I tell Bill Walton in the basketball He made you
feel like the most important person.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
He gues and so many people, I mean the breadth
of reaction, you know, the people, so many people that
he would make feel where you're, you know, your best
if not your best friend, you're in their inner.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Circle, you know. I mean, he God knows how many
hundreds of people with that that came away with that
takeaway from him.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Last thing before I let you go here, there's about
twenty five more things I want to ask you about.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
But I did want to ask about this.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
One because I heard you tell this story once and
I just I had to ask about it again.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I think it was the seventy six finals.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
You said you covered it and Paul Westfall by that
point was a son now and just covering that finals
after covering him previously. Just if you could walk me
through the seventy six finals.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
The whole thing was that at that point Tommy Heinsen
and I were having a bit of a of a
journal of a professional falling out, shall we say, And
after the first game of the series, I wrote a
column and he came in and was fuming about the
column and saying that I that people could get their
game plan by buying the paper and it was not
not so It's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
He was.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
He just was over the top of it. So when
we got the Phoenix for games three, and four. Rather
than the state at the hotel with everybody else, I
stayed at west falls house and we went back for
a game six.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
I stayed at west Fall's house.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
So this has got to be the first and only
time that the primary journalistic, uh you know, person of
covering a team stayed at the home of the best
player of the other team. And but I gotta tell
you quick my favorite anecdote that comes out of that.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
So Paul had a pool.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
Swimming pool, and of course we we have a time
difference in my you know, I have that right quickly
to get back to Boston.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
So I'd be done writing about three or four o'clock
in the afternoon.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
At Phoenix time, and I'd go to the pool with
Paul and his neighbor, Alvin Adams lived down the street,
and somebody else came. And there was another guy who
would come and he had nowhere else to go, something
to do, hung out at the pool. And he was
the guy who was the thirteenth man on the twelve
man roster. He was the son who got left out,
(26:25):
some guy named Riley. So yeah, thattt Riley was just
very happy to have a chance to hang out of
Paul west Fall's pool too, So it was a very
social series.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
But that's what I say now.
Speaker 5 (26:38):
The longest and the short of it is that I
got off the beat that year and I didn't have
to be around Tom Heinsen for but we we vounded
each other at a testimonial dinner for his old roommate,
Jim Blusketof, and I was there and he was there,
and I want to him with the bar and I said, well,
it's spoiled your evening if I say hello.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
And he said now.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
And that was the beginning of forty two years of
we were friends, no problem.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
It was over. No longer the day to day and
it was over.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
So with all that all came out of the seventy six,
the seventy six series against Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I mean, I'm trying to picture it.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I've now heard you tell the story twice, but I
still can't really imagine hanging out with Westy and Ryles
like that during the finals.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
But Riles, Yeah, Ryles, that was he was, you know,
he was the guy left off the roster and yeah
he got you know, his path to becoming pat Riley
and he worked a carpenter or something at one point
and then of course he was chick. He then became
Chick Hern's you know guy, his color man, not the
chick ever needed one or made much use of one.
(27:46):
And then eventually he was assistant coach and West had
got fired and he got the job, and and and
the rest is, they say, is great NBA history. Pat
Riley becomes the great.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Guru, another one of a kind of personality in this league,
as are you, sir, and I am so grateful that
we were able to connect and do this. I won't
be at Game one or Game two, but I hope
I make it to five or seven so I can
see you in person, shake your hand and thank you
for doing this. Fantastic to get your perspective on these Celtics.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Entirely welcome.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
There he goes the Hall of Famer Bob Ryan.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
That will do it for this edition of This League, Uncut.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Chris and I will.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Be back together again very soon for another episode. As always,
please follow rate review the show, stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
We'll do it again very very soon.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
And that'll do it for us. See you next time.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
This League uncutage and iHeartRadio production.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Chris Hanes and Mark Stein
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Defict
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Chris Haynes
Marc Stein
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