May 27, 2025 • 48 mins
In this episode of Throttle Therapy, Katherine reflects on her recent experience at the Xfinity Series race in Charlotte. She is thrilled to be joined by Janet Guthrie, the first woman to qualify and race in both the Indianapolis 500 and Daytona 500. They discuss Janet's journey from aerospace engineering to racing, building her own engines, and the hurdles of securing sponsorship. Janet opens up about the changing perceptions and acceptance of women in racing, as well as the adventurous spirit that has driven her throughout her career.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
There have always been adventurous women, women who did extraordinary things,
and my usual sense of moderation. I bought a Jaguar,
and then I found out what I could do with it,
and then I found out sports car racing existed. That
first year, they put up a little sort of a
(00:20):
telephone booth in one corner for me to change into
my driver's suit. Him it felt as if it were
glued to the track, as if you could take the
whole track and turn it upside down and the car
wouldn't fall off.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Throttal Therapy with Catherine Legg is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your book casts. Hello and welcome to
(01:01):
the show. This week, I still haven't caught up on sleep.
It is post to Charlotte Race, and I am still tired.
We've had a busy, busy week. We spent the beginning
of the week in New York. We did a couple
of days running around the city of print media, TV, podcasts, radio,
(01:23):
We did a bunch of things with ELF. It was
a lot of fun Honestly, it's always fun talking about
ELF and their commitment to empowering women and the products
that they have and the partnership that we did that
started in India a couple of years ago, so that
was great. Came home and drove literally came home and
(01:43):
got in the car and drove to Charlotte and came
up and did a couple of hours on the SIM
to prepare for Charlotte, which is always I mean, it's
just a game changer. It's so helpful because I haven't
seen any of these tracks before, so to get to
spend an hour or so driving, even if it's not in.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Real life, it definitely definitely helps. So I spent some
time with the team.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I started making the seat with the Live Fast Motors
book guys with BJ's guys, and then we arrived at
the track.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
We had a lot to do at the track this
week because we had a massive ELF activation.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
It was a continuation from last year at India where
we had the drone show and the big activation, and
it really got a lot of people excited about ELF products,
about their commitment to empowering women, and about me and
my beautiful teal power grip primer race car.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
It was so neat to see because the line was
around the block.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
They were giving away a bunch of getty as a
bag with a bunch of getty eSIM and so literally
everybody was excited about it, and that makes me excited.
They had you could like fake try on my race
suit in virtual reality.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
They had a Twitch live stream. They had Roebox game.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
You could sit in a simulate it and pretend that
you were me or your favorite driver. They had a
touch up station where you could get your makeup done.
There was just so much. There was a DJ, there
was so much cool stuff going on over there. So
it was a big weekend for us from a sponsor
partner point of view, but also from a racing point
of view, because you know the Co Cola six hundred weekend,
(03:21):
it is on Memorial Day or day before Memorial Day,
so it's a very important weekend for all of us,
at least it should be, in my opinion, and we
should definitely remember what it's all about.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
And we did, and I think we honored them appropriately.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
As best we could. So my race was not great,
if I'm honest. We struggled, So at least I got
some practice this week, yay for us, and we qualified
in to start with practice and I was just loose
most of practice.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
We made a bunch of changes, kept coming in.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I wasn't really used to the track yet, but I
really wanted to make the most time that we had,
which was like twenty five minutes, so.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
We kept coming in and making changes. My crew are awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
The Jordan Anderson racing with Bombary told us spot guys
are fantastic. They got to work. We made a bunch
of changes. We made it a little bit better, but
not as good as we wanted it. But we knew
we had a long race to go. So we qualified
thirty first thirty second I think. And on my qualifying
(04:27):
lap I had a big side with its moment coming
through three and four. Managed to keep it out of
the wall, managed to save it and get us in
the race. Wasn't my best work, but the car was
honestly very loose too, so combination there. Then we had
a power steering issue, so we started from the back,
which I wasn't mad about because I wanted to hang
out in the back and see how the race unfolded.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Avoid the carnage.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
You know, it's really important for me at this stage
to do all the labs. So started the race, spent
ten laps getting comfortable. The car was super loose like
it was. It was probably the hardest I've ever worked
in a race car because I was fighting the car
the entire time.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
So we came in at the end of stage one.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Managed to not go a lap down in stage one,
which in itself was honestly special because the car was
so loose, like I was just trying to hang on
to it. So we came in stage one and made
some changes. Those changes didn't help the oversteer very much,
but they did create some push on their exits, so
(05:31):
definitely didn't make the car any better, unfortunately. So I
was talking to Bruce Macre chief and we came in
at the end of stage two after we did go
a lapdown I think at that stage, and we took a.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Big spring at it.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
I'm like, okay, I need the kitchen sink because it
was very, very loose.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
And after the race somebody said everybody was loose, and
I'm like, no, I don't think you quite understand how
loose I was, Like I was sideways on the straightway.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
So Bruce made a change. It made the car so
much better. I mean, we did a big swing, and
I think the track came to us a little bit.
The car was finally driveable, so I felt like I
was in the same zip code as everybody else, so
we could go and play with the big boys. I
was getting more comfortable on the track too, so we
could finally carry some entary speed. It still wasn't great
(06:19):
over the bumps, like I never had any compliance over
the bumps. We need to work on our damping program
because there were definitely cars that were getting over the
bumps better than we were, no matter what angle, no
matter whether I was low or high. And then obviously
we got taken out with about twelve laps to go,
which was unfortunate because we'd just started making our way
through the field. Were the cars that were on my
(06:42):
lap anyway at that stage when the car was better,
So disappointed. Did get to run most of the laps,
which is important for just getting some experience in these cars.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Know what I need out of the car now better
equipped it working with the team to tell them what
I need. I went long in one of my pits,
so I still need to work on the pit stops.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Because we definitely didn't have the same amount of grip
in the box as we did at previous races, So
that's something I have to pay attention to. Was getting
better at restarts. My spotter is awesome, Tray is awesome,
so I feel like I'm putting stuff in the memory banks.
I feel like I'm getting that experience and kind of programming,
which is great. And then I hung out with the
(07:23):
ELF folks at the activation yesterday and watched the Kirk
six hundred, which is really long, you guys, it is crazy.
So I saw my friend Aj before the race and
I was like, how long do you think the race
would be?
Speaker 3 (07:34):
And he said like four or four and a half hours.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And I'm like, nah, it's not going to be that long.
Well five hours later and there's a race, and all
I could think after about three hours of watching was
I'm going to be hungry when I do this race.
I'm going to be hungry, Like can you just pass
some food through in a pit stuff or something, because
I don't know. I literally eat every couple of hours.
(07:57):
So yeah, it was an a I went four weekend.
Now I have a meeting and then I'm going to
finish the seat at Live Fast Motor Sport with BJ's guys,
and then my daddy and I am going to drive
back down to Georgia pick up the dog o. I
miss her, whoss miss I when I go away. Then
we've got a couple of days before I drive back
(08:18):
up here to do the SIM to then go to
Nashville with the team.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
So busy, busy, no days off.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Although I did call my dad this morning in the
hotel and I said, Okay, tomorrow we're having a day off.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I don't care. I'm not going to have another day
off because I.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Go Pike's Peak Mexico, or after Nashville, I go straight
to Pike's Pezza Test, then I go to Mexico, then
I go to Pike's Peak, and so it's going to
be like four weeks until I get another day off.
So I'm like Daddy, We're going to float around on
the lake tomorrow. And I know I've got a ton
of stuff to do, but I need it. I need
it for my soul. Anyway, after talking about the l
(08:53):
F activation and empowering legendary females, I am really really
proud to tell you who our next guest is and
our guest this week is a woman who has literally
opened the door for the rest of us broken glass ceilings.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
How whatever label you.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Want to attach to that, She's probably one of the
strongest individuals male, female, whatever I've ever spoken to you.
She is tough as nails, and she was the one
who kind of came first over here, and so I
am beyond honored to introduce Janet Guthrie this week. We
(09:39):
are very honored to have joined us here a lady
who broke barriers and really paved the way for future
generations like me, and somebody that I very much looked
up to my entire career and that will go down
in the history books as one of the absolute great
(10:01):
and somebody who I can only aspire to be like
when I grow up. So a very warm welcome to
this show to Janet Guthrie.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Hi, Janet, Hi, Catherine, thank you very much for that
glowing introduction.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well, you're more than welcome. I've looked up to you,
as you know, for a number of years now, and
you've definitely been a hero to me and to millions
of others. So I are you aware of the impact
that you've had on so many, so many people's lives,
but especially young women, and looking at being able to
(10:39):
do whatever they want to do well.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
It was rather a surprise to me at the time.
But yeah, I guess I did have an impact. It
was something I came to acknowledge as a responsibility more
than anything. I mean, as far as I was concerned,
I was a racing driver who happened to be a woman,
so what. But that wasn't the way other people saw it,
(11:03):
and I had to eventually come around to acknowledging that.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, I feel very much the same honestly, Janet, Like
I feel that you set out to do this thing
and it's kind of a selfish thing that you want
to do and you want to achieve and you want
to be a great race card driver. And then along
the way at some point you realize that you are
in the public iem with that comes to responsibility and
so you have to do it in a responsible way
(11:28):
for one of a better term. But I feel exactly
the same. I didn't set out in any way, shape
or form to break any barriers or do anything like that.
I just wanted to be the best race card driver
that I could be. But you didn't start out as
a driver. Did you start it out as an aerospace engineer?
So explain to me how you got from young Janet
(11:50):
working in engineering to being race card Janet.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Well, really, I started out as a pilot. I soloed
when I was sixteen, had a private license at seventeen,
that was the earliest legal age for both, and by
the time I got out of college, I had a
commercial pilot's license and flight instructors rating. When I got
(12:14):
out of college, the first car I bought was with
my wonderful new salary of one hundred and twenty five
dollars a week that's over one thousand and today's dollars,
and my usual sense of moderation, I bought a Jaguar,
a seven year old XK one twenty m coup and
then I found out what I could do with it,
(12:36):
and then I found out sports car racing existed, and
very slowly the sport took over my life.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So were you always like a bit of an adrenaline
junkie and a bit of a tomboy, and like you
wanted to do with the exciting things.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I didn't feel like a tomboy, but I was. I
was born adventurous, that's for sure, and I grew up
insufficiently socialized, and all these exciting things appealed to me
for reasons which weren't terribly clear.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
So how did you get from racing your jag and
like being involved in sports CAUs to having to find
sponsorship and I'm putting a team together and doing everything
professionally in IndyCar and Nascot. How did you make that leap?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Well, it was one step at a time, and I
really owe it all to the late Great Rala Volsted,
a longtime IndyCar team owner who had always been an
innovator at Indianapolis, and in nineteen seventy five he got
the idea that he'd like to be the first team
(13:52):
owner to bring a woman driver to Indianapolis. So I
got a call one day on my answering machine from
somebody I never heard of, saying, how would you like
to take a shot at the Indianapolis five hundred? And
I'm thinking, yeah, rite another joker. So the next morning
I called up the late great Chris Kanamachi and said,
(14:15):
who is Rala Olsted? And Chris basically told me that
he was real, that he was a longtime team owner.
He operated on rather a shoestring budget, but his cars
had always made the field, which in those days with
is when as eighty car is entered and only the
(14:35):
fastest thirty to start the race. I was a bit
of an accomplishment all by itself. So the next morning
I returned his call and things went on from there.
It was certainly a shock to me after we announced
our plans at the amount of naysaying that went on,
(14:56):
because I've been working and playing in men's fields for
a long time and I'd never seen any particular difference.
But oh my, all you had to do was open
up a newspaper and there was another answer saying, our
blood is going to be on your hands if you
let her drive me. It was really an amazing racers.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I am desperately sorry to hear that, But what makes
me even more regretful is that it's still happening today
and I am still going through the exact same thing.
So while you changed the landscape for women in racing,
I think we're still fighting that fight. Unfortunately, I think
it's getting less and less and I haven't had it
(15:39):
from I haven't had it publicly from other drivers. I
can't imagine what it was like, so when you walk
into Indy Okay, so was it your first time driving
in Indyco When you went to the five hundred.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
No, I had told Releival said that a prerequisite to
any such thing was a private test. Nobody to know
about it, no press, no nothing. I said. If I
like you and you like me, and the cargoes fast enough,
and I can make the cargo fast enough, then you
(16:14):
can make all the noise about it. You feel like
you need to. But up until then, it's our secret.
He was a little reluctant, but that's what we did.
We tested a wonderful track in California called Ontario, which
no longer exists, And at the end of that time,
we were all happy with each other, and they scheduled
(16:37):
a press conference to make the announcement.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So I'm right in thinking that the first time you
walked into Indy is like the first time at an
IndyCar race, like an IndyCar experience. And so you're walking
into the paddock. Did you feel like you belonged? Did
you feel like they were all sniggering at you behind
your back? Did you feel that you were an outcast?
Did you feel like strong and like I'm going to
(17:02):
prove them wrong. Like, what was that initial experience like
for you?
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Well, I wouldn't have undertaken to do this thing unless
I thought I would be successful at it, and I
did feel I was going to be successful at it,
And as far as I was concerned, the only important
thing was what happened on the racetrack. All the rest
of it was just stuff. And the way I sort
(17:29):
of rolled off my like water off a ducts back.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I wish I could take that. And I mean, you're
such an inspiration, because that's so incredibly strong of you
mentally to be like I know I can do it,
so it's just noise and carry on. While I know
that rationally that's true, and I try and feel the same,
it's still hard because you're still No matter how much
(17:55):
you try not to point out the fact that you're different,
you're still different. And so even now, even after I've
been racing for twenty years, I still walk into a
new pat it like a NASCAR paddock, and I still
have a slight insecurity about being accepted, and I know
that that's not how it should be. And I wish
that I was like you, but I just can't imagine
(18:19):
how mentally tough you must have been. And I don't
know whether that was something that you taught yourself or
whether it was just from childhood and it was just
naturally who you are. But you mean, you didn't even
have women's bassrooms in their pits back then, right, So
you just took it all in your stride. Did you
have allies that you could like lean on.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Well, by the time we got to Indianapolis, I had
come to know the guys on the crew, and they
understood that I had a good feel for what the
car was doing. And I think that was what underscore
the whole thing. I remember that first year they put
(19:03):
up a little sort of a telephone booth in one
corner for me to change into my driver's suit in
and they put on it Indie Lady is our Indy Lady.
And I was so touched by that. I'll never forget
it for me, So that was part of the key.
I'd spent a lot of years building my own engines
(19:25):
and doing my own bodywork and things like that, and
they figured out pretty quickly that I understood what was
going on with the car.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
When you went to India and you tested and you
realized that you knew what you were doing and you
were going to make this successful. What did you hope
to get out of it?
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Moving forward back then, with some eighty cars entered down eighty,
only eighty eighty cars would be entered for the race, yes.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Thirty three, and qualifying would get to start the race.
I thought, as most drivers of that era, felt just
putting a car in the field would be an accomplishment,
So I hoped to put a car in the field,
and that first year at Indianapolis seventy six, Ralla's car
never did reach a qualifying speed. His previous driver, Tom Bigelow,
(20:23):
who was an all time sprint car champion, had not
been able to bring it up to speed the previous
year either, so I had to wait until seventy seven
when Ralla got a better car, to make a qualifying attempt. However,
something did happen in seventy six that changed a lot
(20:44):
of people's minds. AJ Floyd agreed to let me take
his backup car out in practice, and of course we
hoped he would let me make a qualifying attempt with it.
But the fact that I brought AJ's car up to
qualifying speed so quickly. That opened a lot of people's
(21:06):
minds and changed a lot of people's minds, and so
I'll always be grateful to Aj foy It for that.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
That's amazing. I honestly had no idea that there were
eighty cars trying to qualify. I think most people of
this kind of generation and era don't realize that. And
that is absolutely like mind boggling, Like two thirds of
the people are going home, that's crazy. How was it different?
So you were driving your car and then you got
the opportunity to drive AJ's and kudos to AJ for
(21:37):
for letting you do that like it. I am a
big fan of the men that have helped and supported
us along the way, because without them, we couldn't have
done it. So very grateful to him for doing that.
But when you jumped in his car, was it night
and day different? Was it better? Did it feel the same?
(21:59):
But just went quick? Girl?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Like?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Was it a development thing, a technology thing that? What
do you think made a good car good back then?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Well, it was like night and day. I mean I
didn't say this out loud at the time because I
didn't want to hurt Ralla's feelings, But AJ's car was
just a revelation. It felt as if it were glued
to the track, as if you could take the whole
track and turn it upside down and the car wouldn't
fall off. That was quite an experience. It was really
(22:31):
a revelation. That year seventy six, I did drive in
some other Indy car races, and I also got a
chance at NASCAR, which is another story. But at the
beginning of seventy seven, Ralla acquired a much better car
and I did put that in the field in seventy seven.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I mean, honestly, if I was him, I probably would
have just gone off at AJ some money for his car.
Did AJ help you then moving forward or was it
(23:14):
just kind of a one off, like let's see what
she's got and what she's.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Made of kind of deal?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And did you feel like people's perceptions were up for
being changed, Like they had this idea that you know,
their blood was on your hands if you made the
race and what have you. But then once you'd proven
to them that you could drive, their opinions changed or
were they reluctant to change their opinions? Did they not
want to did they still keep the same opinions? Like
(23:40):
how honest. Were they to themselves about you and your abilities?
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Well? I remember the very first indie car race I
ever drove in seventy six at Trenton, New Jersey, another
track that no longer exists. Yeah, I did notice that
most of the drivers the field gave me a rather
wide birth, as if they figured I was about to
(24:06):
do something unusual. The one exception was Gordon john Cock,
who would drive pretty close to me. As time went on,
that changed. I mean they figured out I knew what
I was doing and I could give them some good competition,
and so that that started changing fairly quickly.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Do you think it motivated them not to be beaten
by the girl?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Well, I had experienced that in sports car racing. Actually
you'd come upon some other driver, a guy, because most
of them were guys, who when he figured out who
that was, quit babying his car. Maybe he was babying
(24:50):
it because it was about to break or something, and
he couldn't stand being passed by a woman, so he
would speed up and break the car. I was accustomed
to that. I thought it was pretty funny. Actually, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Did you have somebody that went with you and helped
you and for me, that's been my dad, because he's
been there every step of the way, and he's amazing.
You've met him. He's great, and I can cool him
and say so and so did this and such and
such happened and how would you do this? And I
do that less and less now obviously, but I don't
I relied heavily on him in my early years. Did
(25:27):
you have somebody like that for you?
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Well, not really.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
There was a guy who let me use his small
boat mover's shop to work on my race, carris In,
and every now and then he'd come with me to
the races. Really a great guy, Ralph Farnham, but he
knew nothing about racing. My father knew nothing about racing either,
and didn't want to know anything about racing. He wasn't
(25:56):
in the least enthusiastic about it. My my next sibling
in line was Phi being at Kappa at the University
of Iowa and as his doctorate from Yale, And that's
in keeping with the family value system. So my father
was quite proud of Stuart's accomplishments, but mine he doesn't
(26:17):
think much of, which was a disappointment to me. But
that's the way it.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Was, Yeah, that must have been incredibly hurtful, just because
you've achieved so much. And I mean that sponkers to me,
how you wouldn't be proud. But I know that my
mom says the same thing about my granddad. Right, like
the son went to college and all the effort was
put behind them, and then the girls were there and
(26:42):
they were just kind of having babies. And that's it's
crazy to me how that was just one generation ago
and now it feels like I thinks have definitely changed.
You've seen us all come and go up until this point,
right like it was you. Then you saw then and
air Offisher and Danica, and then there was the wave
(27:03):
of Me and Simona and Beer and then there's like
maybe Jamie came along. You know, you've seen the ebbs
and flows of all the women in racing, and you've
seen the flow of life and how women are treated
in society. Let's saying, have you noticed a big shift,
a big change or do you think that we're still
(27:27):
fighting eighty percent of the battles that you were fighting.
Would you like to do it all over again now
with the opportunities that we've got, or do you not
like the fact that they're segregating the women in the
W series. You know, like, how do you feel like
it's gone? Since your time?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Things have changed tremendously until your recent difficulty is I
thought that we had gotten to a spot where a
woman driver was basically accepted on her ability. And clearly
that's not entirely the case. But all you have to
do is look at television. When I was growing up,
(28:03):
television was exclusively the province of white males, and now
you see women everywhere. Most of the news broadcasts are
hosted by women. When I was growing up, women driver
jokes were socially acceptable. Well they're no longer socially acceptable,
(28:27):
so there have been huge changes. Yeah, growing up as
a woman in the nineteen fifties was not particularly easy.
I just declined to identify with those women about whom
people make jokes. I was myself, so I wanted to
fly our planes and be e racing driver.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Well you know, so what, but I feel that you
changed it for us. Honestly, I feel like that era,
like there was a handful of you that really challenged
perception and changed it moving forward, and then that kind
of started the ball rolling and I would agree with you.
(29:04):
I would have said, there are women running countries and
companies and it's widely accepted. It's in a very short
amount of time. I would say, if you look at history,
like the changes happen. But then this year has been
a eye opening experience. I think backing up a little bit.
Last two years ago, I did Indie again after ten
(29:27):
years of not doing Indy, and I noticed a marked
difference in the fan base, like there was a lot
more women, a lot more families, and a lot more support,
a lot more like girl power, where we all kind
of get together and it isn't this competition between the women.
It's like we stand together on it. And so I
was really happy about that. And then I switch and
(29:49):
I try my hand at NASCAR this year, and I
noticed a little bit of a different perception. I don't
know whether that's because there hasn't been a woman in
NASCAR and sometimes since Stannica was there, or whether it's
a different demographic or what the reason is behind it,
but I was honestly shocked to some of the comments
(30:09):
and some of the things that I read, because I
really thought that we had moved past that. And it
sounds like your reaction was very similar.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You're hitting a point to sort of a touch a point.
As far as I am concerned, there have always been
adventurous women, women who did extraordinary things, and over the
course of history what women have done has been forgotten
(30:40):
and then denied ever to have happened. So women in
every generation keep reinventing the wheel. And that's a touchy
point with me.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
That's actually a really good point, because I think I'm
guilty of ninety nine point nine percent of the population
the same thing. I don't see it either. But then
when you point out like that and you look back
hundreds of years, if not thousands of years, and you
realize that going back through the history books, you're absolutely right.
There have been groundbreaking women in history and it's just
(31:13):
been forgotten. That's really sad.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Actually, well, we certainly don't need to reinvent the wheel
every generation. I'd like to see that change.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, Yemuco. When you went from IndyCar and you were
doing NASCAR as well, how did you adapt to driving
(31:43):
all the different kinds of cars? Because I know that
you can become a specialist in one or the other
leg I also have a similar experience where I love
sports car racing, I love IndyCar racing, I love NASCAR racing.
Did you feel that you could just race anything with
four wheels and you would be good at.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
I would say that's how I felt like. I say,
I wouldn't have undertaken these things unless I thought I
would be successful at them. But I remember early on
I might even have been nineteen seventy six u SAC.
At that time, the sanctioning body for IndyCars also had
a stock car series, and they ran a double header
(32:25):
at Michigan Indy Cars and stock cars, and in that
event I was entered in both races, and I remember
getting out of the Indy car and heading out. It
was a new track to me, obviously, heading out in
the stocker and my eye being tuned to Indy car speeds.
(32:47):
I went down and the first turn I thought, Ooh,
I am in deep trouble. It was definitely an adaptation
from one set of speeds to the other set of s,
and from the enormous ground hugging power of an IndyCar
to the less ground hugging car power of a NASCAR
(33:11):
Cup car, which was basically what we took to the
USAK race. Was our NASCAR Cup car.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
If you could get in one car tomorrow and have
the experience again, would it be the IndyCar the stuff
car on this Booska.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Well, back then IndyCar was so much more important and
so much more prestigious than stockers. I wouldn't have done
anything differently. But I must say, for pure flat out enjoyment,
I really did enjoy NASCAR Cup racing. I mean, you've
(33:48):
got this great, big roll cage around you, and it
feels safe, even though it isn't particularly safer than IndyCars,
but it feels safer. And I always did like big
have a front engine cars. Anyway, it was definitely different,
but they were both race cars and you just had
to tune your eye and properly to each one.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah. I feel like they all have their merits too,
But I am having fun like you. I'm having fun
with a stock car. It's just this big, heavy, burly
car that you have to manhandle around more than the
finesse of an IndyCar. I think it probably is the
same thing. Back then, it was far more dangerous than
it is today. Luckily they've made leaps and pounds in safety.
(34:33):
Were you ever concerned about that did you ever think
about crashing of fires or was it ever in your head?
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Well, they had solved the problems of fires by the
time I came along. We did have fuel cells and
dry break fittings that if the car is cintegrated, all
the fuel lines would seal themselves off. So that problem
had been solved, both and cars and in stalkers. That
(35:02):
was a great relief to me, but still it was
I think more dangerous than than it is now. A
huge advantage has been the development of the safer barriers,
the collapsible barriers that most of the fast race tracks
have now. That has made survivable accidents out of some
(35:24):
really horrific incidents.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah, I feel like that's the same. And the hands device,
I mean.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Fracing at these speeds is never going to be completely safe.
I mean it can't be, but it's safer that used
to be for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, talking about safety equipment. Actually, I have a helmet
reveal to do at Charlotte Motor speed Away. It's a
throwback helmet to your design. It's basically, instead of having
Janet written on the side, it's got Cat written on
the side because Catherine was too long to fit on it.
And it matches with the children's book that I just
(35:58):
did Cat's Magic Helmet. The reason I chose your helmet
for the magic Helmet was because I feel like there's
a certain amount of magic and nostalgia. And I was
fortunate because I had people like you to look up to, right,
I had examples. I had Michelle Muton for example, I
(36:21):
had Lynn, I had you. I had people that I
could see it so I could believe it. You really
were the first, So you didn't You didn't have that,
and that's so special to me. I mean, it just
takes an immense amount of gumption to be able to
do that. When you see us the next ones coming along,
(36:41):
like when you saw Lynn come along, when you saw
Sarah Fisher come along, did you think, Okay, this is amazing.
Let's see and support them. I know you've been a
supporter of mine, But how do you feel about the
next the next one on the block, Like, how do
you analyze them?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Well, I suppose my favorite among drivers of her generation
is Sarah Fisher. It really was a tremendously talented driver.
She qualified on the poll for an IndyCar race. She
finished second. I believe in an IndyCar Race, and I
thought she was going to be the first to win
(37:18):
an IndyCar race, and it didn't work out for her
because she had, like all women always do, trouble getting
the funding to get it done with. And I've always
said that what this sport needs is a woman who
has all the stuff that it takes, I mean, desire, concentration, judgment,
(37:38):
emotional detachment, a feel for the car, all the stuff
that it takes, and her own fortune as well.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Though I think the problem with that is if you
have your own fortune, I don't know whether you're that
hungry for it, like you've seen it with all the
Formula One drivers taking the women part out of it.
Like I think, if you to want it badly, you
have to have that desire and then it can't be easy,
so you have to work for it. And if you've
got the fortune and it's easy, then maybe it doesn't
(38:07):
work out that way. I feel like all of us
that have done it to the level that we've done
it have had to fight and claw and scratch our
way into it.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
You know, certainly that's true. As far as finding the
sponsorship is concerned. The rest of it, I'm not sure
I agree with you, or I didn't think I did,
But finding sponsorship is, in my opinion, a big reason
why we don't see more women in the sport. That
(38:36):
and the fact that little girls don't normally grow up
race and go karts. Some of them do. I read
in USA Today that when Danica was a kid, her
family spent six figures a year on her go kart racing.
Not too many families like that. Wow. I don't know
how Sarah Fisher got started, but she certainly an outstanding driver.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, Sarah's a good friend. I looked up to her
as well for a number of different reasons, but mostly
because she put everything else to the side and just
focused on being the best driver that she could be.
And she was supportive of other women. I think along
the way, some of the women have seen other women
as competition, and I think there's a fine line with
(39:22):
that as well, like I would love to see other
women succeed, and I think that takes the championing of women,
if that makes sense. And I think Sarah was just
a really good person as well as a really great
race car driver.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, she's definitely one of my favorite people.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, Sam, So how did you go about getting sponsorship
and funding to race, or was it the teams came
to you with it already.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Well, my first team owner, Relivalst, came to me with
the funding in place rant heating and cooling, and after
that it got more and more difficult. I in seventy eight,
when I ran my own team, I had help from
a guy in New York who was a successful businessman,
(40:12):
but one of his major talents was fundraising, and he
decided that I ought to have a better shot. He
was really quite instrumental in my finding funding from Texico.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I remember both the Bryant car and the Texco car.
I id love to do throwback schemes of those two
because they were so iconic. How did you find when
you ran your own team? How did you find the
balance of being the team boss and being the driver?
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I remember almost wishing that I were in a position
of driving for somebody else. Again, Well, all I had
to do is get in the car and drive it
and not handle all the team owner responsibilities. Oh, well,
we have a new transaxle. Oh we don't have anything
(41:05):
to start it with. Oh, we need to have fabricated
the link between the starter engine and the transaxle. Oh,
who can handle that? Being a team owner was really difficult,
but it worked out all right. That's when I had
my best finish in spite of some difficulties.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Do you love the competition or do you love the cars?
Speaker 1 (41:27):
I love the competition. Cars are just a tool that
means to an end. I really don't have much interest
in cars, but as a means to an end, there's
no beating it. When I was flying, there was the
thrill of exercise and good equipment in an environment that
(41:48):
could pose certain hazards, although in flying those were minimal,
but racing added the exercising of the machinery and this
challenging environment. Added to that the door handle competition, where
you were responsible for the other person's well being as
(42:09):
well as trying to beat that driver into the next turn,
which makes it a very challenging combination.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, it's kind of like mortal combat, but you have
to use your brain at the same time. It's kind
of an interesting combination. I feel very much the same.
It's like you you can always do something better, like
experience counts for so much, but you're always learning and
you're always racing against yourself and everybody else. And all
the strategy and the feel through the seat of your pants,
and there's just so much to it that it just
(42:39):
keeps you motivated and keeps you driven. For want of
a better term, let's go post racing, how did you
get your kicks? Or how did you get that adrenaline
and that part of you? Because you're obviously you know,
way similar in a way that we need something to
keep us motivated and keep us going and like and
(43:01):
that's it. And I am happiest when I'm at a
racetrack and I've got something to focus on and I'm
working either towards the sponsorship or they're racing or whatever
it may be. Like when you stopped racing, how did
you get those kicks? Like not get bored?
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Unfortunately, there isn't anything that can replace racing, and I
missed it dreadfully badly for a good number of years
after I was forced out by lack of sponsorship. No,
I never have found anything to replace it. Actually, but
my life changed. I finally got married and bought a house,
(43:39):
and I gave dinner parties and started leading a relatively
normal life. But I never found anything to replace racing.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah, that terrifies me honestly, Like I, I don't know
what I want to do when that time comes, but
I just want to race as long as I can,
and then I probably will do something in racing. I
don't know, but yeah, maybe I'll get married. Who knows.
So if you could go back and give younger Janet
or younger Catherine advice, what would you say the most
(44:10):
important things to keep focused on?
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Well, that's easy. Be born rich. Yeah, when I look
back at swartzcar racing, that was a sport for the
wealth aid in my era, and I used to go
to a great deal of trouble to pretend I was
as rich as the rest of my competitors when actually
I was building my own engines in a rather dismal shop.
(44:37):
But you wouldn't find me looking as if I were
an engine builder. But yeah, that's the biggest problem is
finding the money to get it done. For sure.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Before I let you go, and I wish that we
could talk all day, to be honest, But you have
an upcoming movie coming out called speed Girl. I offered
to do the the stunt driving for it, so I'm
hoping that Clink gives me the nod and I can
do my ode to Janet, there and you're being played
by Hilary Swank. I believe to you, Yes, How does
(45:11):
that feel?
Speaker 1 (45:13):
I was very surprised when I learned about the project
because I had known nothing of it, and I was
also disappointed that they had based the movie on a
book that had certain problems and existed only as an ebook,
rather than on my own book, which took me twenty
(45:35):
seven years to finish and which I'm really quite proud of.
I think of it as my legacy. It's out of
print now, unfortunately, but there are still copies floating around
on eBay and Amazon. I haven't heard anything at all
about this project in quite some time now, so I
don't know whether it's on hold or what the story
(45:57):
is there. Movie isn't terribly important to me. The only
exception is that it might provide a way to get
my own book back and print again. That's what I
hope for. My own book got great reviews, but it
doesn't make any bestseller lists. I mean, Sports Illustrated called
it and I quote and uplifting work that is one
(46:18):
of the best books written about racing, and I did
read it myself. I didn't have a ghostwriter and I
would really like to see that book back and print again.
Apart from that a movie. Well, I have friends who
keep telling me, oh, you've got to make sure this
movie gets made, But to me, it's just a means
to an end.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Frankly, Yeah, maybe somebody out there is listening to us,
and maybe someone can have you a book put back
into print. But I think that it absolutely should be
and it should act as a inspiration for the future
generations that haven't read it or know anything of what
you've achieved, what we've achieved. My racing is a very
(46:58):
small genre, and I feel like it should be expanded
and I feel like more people should be exposed to it.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Well, I hope so.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Well, Janet, it's absolutely lovely talking to you. I appreciate
your time, and I appreciate everything you've done for the
sport in general, really, and I know that everybody always
focuses on the women in racing aspect, and that kind
of pisses me off sometimes if I'm honest, because we
just set out to be the best race card drivers
(47:30):
that we could be. But in the end, I think
what you did was incredibly special and I'm very grateful
to know you and class you as a friend.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Well, thank you, Thank you so much. It was a
pleasure talking with you.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Hopefully we can do it again soon. Thanks for listening
to Throttle Therapy. We'll be back next week with more
updates and more overtakes. We want to hear from you.
Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts and tell us
what you want to talk about. It might just be
the topic for hours. Next show. Throttle Therapy is hosted
by Katherine Legg. Our executive producer is Jesse Katz, and
(48:07):
our supervising producer is Grace Fuse. Listen to Throttle Therapy
on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free
iHeart app and search throttle Therapy with Katherine Legg and
start listening.
There have always been adventurous women, women who did extraordinary things,
and my usual sense of moderation. I bought a Jaguar,
and then I found out what I could do with it,
and then I found out sports car racing existed. That
first year, they put up a little sort of a
(00:20):
telephone booth in one corner for me to change into
my driver's suit. Him it felt as if it were
glued to the track, as if you could take the
whole track and turn it upside down and the car
wouldn't fall off.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Throttal Therapy with Catherine Legg is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your book casts. Hello and welcome to
(01:01):
the show. This week, I still haven't caught up on sleep.
It is post to Charlotte Race, and I am still tired.
We've had a busy, busy week. We spent the beginning
of the week in New York. We did a couple
of days running around the city of print media, TV, podcasts, radio,
(01:23):
We did a bunch of things with ELF. It was
a lot of fun Honestly, it's always fun talking about
ELF and their commitment to empowering women and the products
that they have and the partnership that we did that
started in India a couple of years ago, so that
was great. Came home and drove literally came home and
(01:43):
got in the car and drove to Charlotte and came
up and did a couple of hours on the SIM
to prepare for Charlotte, which is always I mean, it's
just a game changer. It's so helpful because I haven't
seen any of these tracks before, so to get to
spend an hour or so driving, even if it's not in.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Real life, it definitely definitely helps. So I spent some
time with the team.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I started making the seat with the Live Fast Motors
book guys with BJ's guys, and then we arrived at
the track.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
We had a lot to do at the track this
week because we had a massive ELF activation.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
It was a continuation from last year at India where
we had the drone show and the big activation, and
it really got a lot of people excited about ELF products,
about their commitment to empowering women, and about me and
my beautiful teal power grip primer race car.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
It was so neat to see because the line was
around the block.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
They were giving away a bunch of getty as a
bag with a bunch of getty eSIM and so literally
everybody was excited about it, and that makes me excited.
They had you could like fake try on my race
suit in virtual reality.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
They had a Twitch live stream. They had Roebox game.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
You could sit in a simulate it and pretend that
you were me or your favorite driver. They had a
touch up station where you could get your makeup done.
There was just so much. There was a DJ, there
was so much cool stuff going on over there. So
it was a big weekend for us from a sponsor
partner point of view, but also from a racing point
of view, because you know the Co Cola six hundred weekend,
(03:21):
it is on Memorial Day or day before Memorial Day,
so it's a very important weekend for all of us,
at least it should be, in my opinion, and we
should definitely remember what it's all about.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
And we did, and I think we honored them appropriately.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
As best we could. So my race was not great,
if I'm honest. We struggled, So at least I got
some practice this week, yay for us, and we qualified
in to start with practice and I was just loose
most of practice.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
We made a bunch of changes, kept coming in.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I wasn't really used to the track yet, but I
really wanted to make the most time that we had,
which was like twenty five minutes, so.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
We kept coming in and making changes. My crew are awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
The Jordan Anderson racing with Bombary told us spot guys
are fantastic. They got to work. We made a bunch
of changes. We made it a little bit better, but
not as good as we wanted it. But we knew
we had a long race to go. So we qualified
thirty first thirty second I think. And on my qualifying
(04:27):
lap I had a big side with its moment coming
through three and four. Managed to keep it out of
the wall, managed to save it and get us in
the race. Wasn't my best work, but the car was
honestly very loose too, so combination there. Then we had
a power steering issue, so we started from the back,
which I wasn't mad about because I wanted to hang
out in the back and see how the race unfolded.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Avoid the carnage.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
You know, it's really important for me at this stage
to do all the labs. So started the race, spent
ten laps getting comfortable. The car was super loose like
it was. It was probably the hardest I've ever worked
in a race car because I was fighting the car
the entire time.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
So we came in at the end of stage one.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Managed to not go a lap down in stage one,
which in itself was honestly special because the car was
so loose, like I was just trying to hang on
to it. So we came in stage one and made
some changes. Those changes didn't help the oversteer very much,
but they did create some push on their exits, so
(05:31):
definitely didn't make the car any better, unfortunately. So I
was talking to Bruce Macre chief and we came in
at the end of stage two after we did go
a lapdown I think at that stage, and we took a.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Big spring at it.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
I'm like, okay, I need the kitchen sink because it
was very, very loose.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
And after the race somebody said everybody was loose, and
I'm like, no, I don't think you quite understand how
loose I was, Like I was sideways on the straightway.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
So Bruce made a change. It made the car so
much better. I mean, we did a big swing, and
I think the track came to us a little bit.
The car was finally driveable, so I felt like I
was in the same zip code as everybody else, so
we could go and play with the big boys. I
was getting more comfortable on the track too, so we
could finally carry some entary speed. It still wasn't great
(06:19):
over the bumps, like I never had any compliance over
the bumps. We need to work on our damping program
because there were definitely cars that were getting over the
bumps better than we were, no matter what angle, no
matter whether I was low or high. And then obviously
we got taken out with about twelve laps to go,
which was unfortunate because we'd just started making our way
through the field. Were the cars that were on my
(06:42):
lap anyway at that stage when the car was better,
So disappointed. Did get to run most of the laps,
which is important for just getting some experience in these cars.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Know what I need out of the car now better
equipped it working with the team to tell them what
I need. I went long in one of my pits,
so I still need to work on the pit stops.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Because we definitely didn't have the same amount of grip
in the box as we did at previous races, So
that's something I have to pay attention to. Was getting
better at restarts. My spotter is awesome, Tray is awesome,
so I feel like I'm putting stuff in the memory banks.
I feel like I'm getting that experience and kind of programming,
which is great. And then I hung out with the
(07:23):
ELF folks at the activation yesterday and watched the Kirk
six hundred, which is really long, you guys, it is crazy.
So I saw my friend Aj before the race and
I was like, how long do you think the race
would be?
Speaker 3 (07:34):
And he said like four or four and a half hours.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And I'm like, nah, it's not going to be that long.
Well five hours later and there's a race, and all
I could think after about three hours of watching was
I'm going to be hungry when I do this race.
I'm going to be hungry, Like can you just pass
some food through in a pit stuff or something, because
I don't know. I literally eat every couple of hours.
(07:57):
So yeah, it was an a I went four weekend.
Now I have a meeting and then I'm going to
finish the seat at Live Fast Motor Sport with BJ's guys,
and then my daddy and I am going to drive
back down to Georgia pick up the dog o. I
miss her, whoss miss I when I go away. Then
we've got a couple of days before I drive back
(08:18):
up here to do the SIM to then go to
Nashville with the team.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
So busy, busy, no days off.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Although I did call my dad this morning in the
hotel and I said, Okay, tomorrow we're having a day off.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I don't care. I'm not going to have another day
off because I.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Go Pike's Peak Mexico, or after Nashville, I go straight
to Pike's Pezza Test, then I go to Mexico, then
I go to Pike's Peak, and so it's going to
be like four weeks until I get another day off.
So I'm like Daddy, We're going to float around on
the lake tomorrow. And I know I've got a ton
of stuff to do, but I need it. I need
it for my soul. Anyway, after talking about the l
(08:53):
F activation and empowering legendary females, I am really really
proud to tell you who our next guest is and
our guest this week is a woman who has literally
opened the door for the rest of us broken glass ceilings.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
How whatever label you.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Want to attach to that, She's probably one of the
strongest individuals male, female, whatever I've ever spoken to you.
She is tough as nails, and she was the one
who kind of came first over here, and so I
am beyond honored to introduce Janet Guthrie this week. We
(09:39):
are very honored to have joined us here a lady
who broke barriers and really paved the way for future
generations like me, and somebody that I very much looked
up to my entire career and that will go down
in the history books as one of the absolute great
(10:01):
and somebody who I can only aspire to be like
when I grow up. So a very warm welcome to
this show to Janet Guthrie.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Hi, Janet, Hi, Catherine, thank you very much for that
glowing introduction.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well, you're more than welcome. I've looked up to you,
as you know, for a number of years now, and
you've definitely been a hero to me and to millions
of others. So I are you aware of the impact
that you've had on so many, so many people's lives,
but especially young women, and looking at being able to
(10:39):
do whatever they want to do well.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
It was rather a surprise to me at the time.
But yeah, I guess I did have an impact. It
was something I came to acknowledge as a responsibility more
than anything. I mean, as far as I was concerned,
I was a racing driver who happened to be a woman,
so what. But that wasn't the way other people saw it,
(11:03):
and I had to eventually come around to acknowledging that.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, I feel very much the same honestly, Janet, Like
I feel that you set out to do this thing
and it's kind of a selfish thing that you want
to do and you want to achieve and you want
to be a great race card driver. And then along
the way at some point you realize that you are
in the public iem with that comes to responsibility and
so you have to do it in a responsible way
(11:28):
for one of a better term. But I feel exactly
the same. I didn't set out in any way, shape
or form to break any barriers or do anything like that.
I just wanted to be the best race card driver
that I could be. But you didn't start out as
a driver. Did you start it out as an aerospace engineer?
So explain to me how you got from young Janet
(11:50):
working in engineering to being race card Janet.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Well, really, I started out as a pilot. I soloed
when I was sixteen, had a private license at seventeen,
that was the earliest legal age for both, and by
the time I got out of college, I had a
commercial pilot's license and flight instructors rating. When I got
(12:14):
out of college, the first car I bought was with
my wonderful new salary of one hundred and twenty five
dollars a week that's over one thousand and today's dollars,
and my usual sense of moderation, I bought a Jaguar,
a seven year old XK one twenty m coup and
then I found out what I could do with it,
(12:36):
and then I found out sports car racing existed, and
very slowly the sport took over my life.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So were you always like a bit of an adrenaline
junkie and a bit of a tomboy, and like you
wanted to do with the exciting things.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I didn't feel like a tomboy, but I was. I
was born adventurous, that's for sure, and I grew up
insufficiently socialized, and all these exciting things appealed to me
for reasons which weren't terribly clear.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
So how did you get from racing your jag and
like being involved in sports CAUs to having to find
sponsorship and I'm putting a team together and doing everything
professionally in IndyCar and Nascot. How did you make that leap?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Well, it was one step at a time, and I
really owe it all to the late Great Rala Volsted,
a longtime IndyCar team owner who had always been an
innovator at Indianapolis, and in nineteen seventy five he got
the idea that he'd like to be the first team
(13:52):
owner to bring a woman driver to Indianapolis. So I
got a call one day on my answering machine from
somebody I never heard of, saying, how would you like
to take a shot at the Indianapolis five hundred? And
I'm thinking, yeah, rite another joker. So the next morning
I called up the late great Chris Kanamachi and said,
(14:15):
who is Rala Olsted? And Chris basically told me that
he was real, that he was a longtime team owner.
He operated on rather a shoestring budget, but his cars
had always made the field, which in those days with
is when as eighty car is entered and only the
(14:35):
fastest thirty to start the race. I was a bit
of an accomplishment all by itself. So the next morning
I returned his call and things went on from there.
It was certainly a shock to me after we announced
our plans at the amount of naysaying that went on,
(14:56):
because I've been working and playing in men's fields for
a long time and I'd never seen any particular difference.
But oh my, all you had to do was open
up a newspaper and there was another answer saying, our
blood is going to be on your hands if you
let her drive me. It was really an amazing racers.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I am desperately sorry to hear that, But what makes
me even more regretful is that it's still happening today
and I am still going through the exact same thing.
So while you changed the landscape for women in racing,
I think we're still fighting that fight. Unfortunately, I think
it's getting less and less and I haven't had it
(15:39):
from I haven't had it publicly from other drivers. I
can't imagine what it was like, so when you walk
into Indy Okay, so was it your first time driving
in Indyco When you went to the five hundred.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
No, I had told Releival said that a prerequisite to
any such thing was a private test. Nobody to know
about it, no press, no nothing. I said. If I
like you and you like me, and the cargoes fast enough,
and I can make the cargo fast enough, then you
(16:14):
can make all the noise about it. You feel like
you need to. But up until then, it's our secret.
He was a little reluctant, but that's what we did.
We tested a wonderful track in California called Ontario, which
no longer exists, And at the end of that time,
we were all happy with each other, and they scheduled
(16:37):
a press conference to make the announcement.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So I'm right in thinking that the first time you
walked into Indy is like the first time at an
IndyCar race, like an IndyCar experience. And so you're walking
into the paddock. Did you feel like you belonged? Did
you feel like they were all sniggering at you behind
your back? Did you feel that you were an outcast?
Did you feel like strong and like I'm going to
(17:02):
prove them wrong. Like, what was that initial experience like
for you?
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Well, I wouldn't have undertaken to do this thing unless
I thought I would be successful at it, and I
did feel I was going to be successful at it,
And as far as I was concerned, the only important
thing was what happened on the racetrack. All the rest
of it was just stuff. And the way I sort
(17:29):
of rolled off my like water off a ducts back.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I wish I could take that. And I mean, you're
such an inspiration, because that's so incredibly strong of you
mentally to be like I know I can do it,
so it's just noise and carry on. While I know
that rationally that's true, and I try and feel the same,
it's still hard because you're still No matter how much
(17:55):
you try not to point out the fact that you're different,
you're still different. And so even now, even after I've
been racing for twenty years, I still walk into a
new pat it like a NASCAR paddock, and I still
have a slight insecurity about being accepted, and I know
that that's not how it should be. And I wish
that I was like you, but I just can't imagine
(18:19):
how mentally tough you must have been. And I don't
know whether that was something that you taught yourself or
whether it was just from childhood and it was just
naturally who you are. But you mean, you didn't even
have women's bassrooms in their pits back then, right, So
you just took it all in your stride. Did you
have allies that you could like lean on.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Well, by the time we got to Indianapolis, I had
come to know the guys on the crew, and they
understood that I had a good feel for what the
car was doing. And I think that was what underscore
the whole thing. I remember that first year they put
(19:03):
up a little sort of a telephone booth in one
corner for me to change into my driver's suit in
and they put on it Indie Lady is our Indy Lady.
And I was so touched by that. I'll never forget
it for me, So that was part of the key.
I'd spent a lot of years building my own engines
(19:25):
and doing my own bodywork and things like that, and
they figured out pretty quickly that I understood what was
going on with the car.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
When you went to India and you tested and you
realized that you knew what you were doing and you
were going to make this successful. What did you hope
to get out of it?
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Moving forward back then, with some eighty cars entered down eighty,
only eighty eighty cars would be entered for the race, yes.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Thirty three, and qualifying would get to start the race.
I thought, as most drivers of that era, felt just
putting a car in the field would be an accomplishment,
So I hoped to put a car in the field,
and that first year at Indianapolis seventy six, Ralla's car
never did reach a qualifying speed. His previous driver, Tom Bigelow,
(20:23):
who was an all time sprint car champion, had not
been able to bring it up to speed the previous
year either, so I had to wait until seventy seven
when Ralla got a better car, to make a qualifying attempt. However,
something did happen in seventy six that changed a lot
(20:44):
of people's minds. AJ Floyd agreed to let me take
his backup car out in practice, and of course we
hoped he would let me make a qualifying attempt with it.
But the fact that I brought AJ's car up to
qualifying speed so quickly. That opened a lot of people's
(21:06):
minds and changed a lot of people's minds, and so
I'll always be grateful to Aj foy It for that.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
That's amazing. I honestly had no idea that there were
eighty cars trying to qualify. I think most people of
this kind of generation and era don't realize that. And
that is absolutely like mind boggling, Like two thirds of
the people are going home, that's crazy. How was it different?
So you were driving your car and then you got
the opportunity to drive AJ's and kudos to AJ for
(21:37):
for letting you do that like it. I am a
big fan of the men that have helped and supported
us along the way, because without them, we couldn't have
done it. So very grateful to him for doing that.
But when you jumped in his car, was it night
and day different? Was it better? Did it feel the same?
(21:59):
But just went quick? Girl?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Like?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Was it a development thing, a technology thing that? What
do you think made a good car good back then?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Well, it was like night and day. I mean I
didn't say this out loud at the time because I
didn't want to hurt Ralla's feelings, But AJ's car was
just a revelation. It felt as if it were glued
to the track, as if you could take the whole
track and turn it upside down and the car wouldn't
fall off. That was quite an experience. It was really
(22:31):
a revelation. That year seventy six, I did drive in
some other Indy car races, and I also got a
chance at NASCAR, which is another story. But at the
beginning of seventy seven, Ralla acquired a much better car
and I did put that in the field in seventy seven.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I mean, honestly, if I was him, I probably would
have just gone off at AJ some money for his car.
Did AJ help you then moving forward or was it
(23:14):
just kind of a one off, like let's see what
she's got and what she's.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Made of kind of deal?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And did you feel like people's perceptions were up for
being changed, Like they had this idea that you know,
their blood was on your hands if you made the
race and what have you. But then once you'd proven
to them that you could drive, their opinions changed or
were they reluctant to change their opinions? Did they not
want to did they still keep the same opinions? Like
(23:40):
how honest. Were they to themselves about you and your abilities?
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Well? I remember the very first indie car race I
ever drove in seventy six at Trenton, New Jersey, another
track that no longer exists. Yeah, I did notice that
most of the drivers the field gave me a rather
wide birth, as if they figured I was about to
(24:06):
do something unusual. The one exception was Gordon john Cock,
who would drive pretty close to me. As time went on,
that changed. I mean they figured out I knew what
I was doing and I could give them some good competition,
and so that that started changing fairly quickly.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Do you think it motivated them not to be beaten
by the girl?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Well, I had experienced that in sports car racing. Actually
you'd come upon some other driver, a guy, because most
of them were guys, who when he figured out who
that was, quit babying his car. Maybe he was babying
(24:50):
it because it was about to break or something, and
he couldn't stand being passed by a woman, so he
would speed up and break the car. I was accustomed
to that. I thought it was pretty funny. Actually, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Did you have somebody that went with you and helped
you and for me, that's been my dad, because he's
been there every step of the way, and he's amazing.
You've met him. He's great, and I can cool him
and say so and so did this and such and
such happened and how would you do this? And I
do that less and less now obviously, but I don't
I relied heavily on him in my early years. Did
(25:27):
you have somebody like that for you?
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Well, not really.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
There was a guy who let me use his small
boat mover's shop to work on my race, carris In,
and every now and then he'd come with me to
the races. Really a great guy, Ralph Farnham, but he
knew nothing about racing. My father knew nothing about racing either,
and didn't want to know anything about racing. He wasn't
(25:56):
in the least enthusiastic about it. My my next sibling
in line was Phi being at Kappa at the University
of Iowa and as his doctorate from Yale, And that's
in keeping with the family value system. So my father
was quite proud of Stuart's accomplishments, but mine he doesn't
(26:17):
think much of, which was a disappointment to me. But
that's the way it.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Was, Yeah, that must have been incredibly hurtful, just because
you've achieved so much. And I mean that sponkers to me,
how you wouldn't be proud. But I know that my
mom says the same thing about my granddad. Right, like
the son went to college and all the effort was
put behind them, and then the girls were there and
(26:42):
they were just kind of having babies. And that's it's
crazy to me how that was just one generation ago
and now it feels like I thinks have definitely changed.
You've seen us all come and go up until this point,
right like it was you. Then you saw then and
air Offisher and Danica, and then there was the wave
(27:03):
of Me and Simona and Beer and then there's like
maybe Jamie came along. You know, you've seen the ebbs
and flows of all the women in racing, and you've
seen the flow of life and how women are treated
in society. Let's saying, have you noticed a big shift,
a big change or do you think that we're still
(27:27):
fighting eighty percent of the battles that you were fighting.
Would you like to do it all over again now
with the opportunities that we've got, or do you not
like the fact that they're segregating the women in the
W series. You know, like, how do you feel like
it's gone? Since your time?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Things have changed tremendously until your recent difficulty is I
thought that we had gotten to a spot where a
woman driver was basically accepted on her ability. And clearly
that's not entirely the case. But all you have to
do is look at television. When I was growing up,
(28:03):
television was exclusively the province of white males, and now
you see women everywhere. Most of the news broadcasts are
hosted by women. When I was growing up, women driver
jokes were socially acceptable. Well they're no longer socially acceptable,
(28:27):
so there have been huge changes. Yeah, growing up as
a woman in the nineteen fifties was not particularly easy.
I just declined to identify with those women about whom
people make jokes. I was myself, so I wanted to
fly our planes and be e racing driver.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Well you know, so what, but I feel that you
changed it for us. Honestly, I feel like that era,
like there was a handful of you that really challenged
perception and changed it moving forward, and then that kind
of started the ball rolling and I would agree with you.
(29:04):
I would have said, there are women running countries and
companies and it's widely accepted. It's in a very short
amount of time. I would say, if you look at history,
like the changes happen. But then this year has been
a eye opening experience. I think backing up a little bit.
Last two years ago, I did Indie again after ten
(29:27):
years of not doing Indy, and I noticed a marked
difference in the fan base, like there was a lot
more women, a lot more families, and a lot more support,
a lot more like girl power, where we all kind
of get together and it isn't this competition between the women.
It's like we stand together on it. And so I
was really happy about that. And then I switch and
(29:49):
I try my hand at NASCAR this year, and I
noticed a little bit of a different perception. I don't
know whether that's because there hasn't been a woman in
NASCAR and sometimes since Stannica was there, or whether it's
a different demographic or what the reason is behind it,
but I was honestly shocked to some of the comments
(30:09):
and some of the things that I read, because I
really thought that we had moved past that. And it
sounds like your reaction was very similar.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You're hitting a point to sort of a touch a point.
As far as I am concerned, there have always been
adventurous women, women who did extraordinary things, and over the
course of history what women have done has been forgotten
(30:40):
and then denied ever to have happened. So women in
every generation keep reinventing the wheel. And that's a touchy
point with me.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
That's actually a really good point, because I think I'm
guilty of ninety nine point nine percent of the population
the same thing. I don't see it either. But then
when you point out like that and you look back
hundreds of years, if not thousands of years, and you
realize that going back through the history books, you're absolutely right.
There have been groundbreaking women in history and it's just
(31:13):
been forgotten. That's really sad.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Actually, well, we certainly don't need to reinvent the wheel
every generation. I'd like to see that change.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, Yemuco. When you went from IndyCar and you were
doing NASCAR as well, how did you adapt to driving
(31:43):
all the different kinds of cars? Because I know that
you can become a specialist in one or the other
leg I also have a similar experience where I love
sports car racing, I love IndyCar racing, I love NASCAR racing.
Did you feel that you could just race anything with
four wheels and you would be good at.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
I would say that's how I felt like. I say,
I wouldn't have undertaken these things unless I thought I
would be successful at them. But I remember early on
I might even have been nineteen seventy six u SAC.
At that time, the sanctioning body for IndyCars also had
a stock car series, and they ran a double header
(32:25):
at Michigan Indy Cars and stock cars, and in that
event I was entered in both races, and I remember
getting out of the Indy car and heading out. It
was a new track to me, obviously, heading out in
the stocker and my eye being tuned to Indy car speeds.
(32:47):
I went down and the first turn I thought, Ooh,
I am in deep trouble. It was definitely an adaptation
from one set of speeds to the other set of s,
and from the enormous ground hugging power of an IndyCar
to the less ground hugging car power of a NASCAR
(33:11):
Cup car, which was basically what we took to the
USAK race. Was our NASCAR Cup car.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
If you could get in one car tomorrow and have
the experience again, would it be the IndyCar the stuff
car on this Booska.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Well, back then IndyCar was so much more important and
so much more prestigious than stockers. I wouldn't have done
anything differently. But I must say, for pure flat out enjoyment,
I really did enjoy NASCAR Cup racing. I mean, you've
(33:48):
got this great, big roll cage around you, and it
feels safe, even though it isn't particularly safer than IndyCars,
but it feels safer. And I always did like big
have a front engine cars. Anyway, it was definitely different,
but they were both race cars and you just had
to tune your eye and properly to each one.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah. I feel like they all have their merits too,
But I am having fun like you. I'm having fun
with a stock car. It's just this big, heavy, burly
car that you have to manhandle around more than the
finesse of an IndyCar. I think it probably is the
same thing. Back then, it was far more dangerous than
it is today. Luckily they've made leaps and pounds in safety.
(34:33):
Were you ever concerned about that did you ever think
about crashing of fires or was it ever in your head?
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Well, they had solved the problems of fires by the
time I came along. We did have fuel cells and
dry break fittings that if the car is cintegrated, all
the fuel lines would seal themselves off. So that problem
had been solved, both and cars and in stalkers. That
(35:02):
was a great relief to me, but still it was
I think more dangerous than than it is now. A
huge advantage has been the development of the safer barriers,
the collapsible barriers that most of the fast race tracks
have now. That has made survivable accidents out of some
(35:24):
really horrific incidents.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah, I feel like that's the same. And the hands device,
I mean.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Fracing at these speeds is never going to be completely safe.
I mean it can't be, but it's safer that used
to be for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, talking about safety equipment. Actually, I have a helmet
reveal to do at Charlotte Motor speed Away. It's a
throwback helmet to your design. It's basically, instead of having
Janet written on the side, it's got Cat written on
the side because Catherine was too long to fit on it.
And it matches with the children's book that I just
(35:58):
did Cat's Magic Helmet. The reason I chose your helmet
for the magic Helmet was because I feel like there's
a certain amount of magic and nostalgia. And I was
fortunate because I had people like you to look up to, right,
I had examples. I had Michelle Muton for example, I
(36:21):
had Lynn, I had you. I had people that I
could see it so I could believe it. You really
were the first, So you didn't You didn't have that,
and that's so special to me. I mean, it just
takes an immense amount of gumption to be able to
do that. When you see us the next ones coming along,
(36:41):
like when you saw Lynn come along, when you saw
Sarah Fisher come along, did you think, Okay, this is amazing.
Let's see and support them. I know you've been a
supporter of mine, But how do you feel about the
next the next one on the block, Like, how do
you analyze them?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Well, I suppose my favorite among drivers of her generation
is Sarah Fisher. It really was a tremendously talented driver.
She qualified on the poll for an IndyCar race. She
finished second. I believe in an IndyCar Race, and I
thought she was going to be the first to win
(37:18):
an IndyCar race, and it didn't work out for her
because she had, like all women always do, trouble getting
the funding to get it done with. And I've always
said that what this sport needs is a woman who
has all the stuff that it takes, I mean, desire, concentration, judgment,
(37:38):
emotional detachment, a feel for the car, all the stuff
that it takes, and her own fortune as well.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Though I think the problem with that is if you
have your own fortune, I don't know whether you're that
hungry for it, like you've seen it with all the
Formula One drivers taking the women part out of it.
Like I think, if you to want it badly, you
have to have that desire and then it can't be easy,
so you have to work for it. And if you've
got the fortune and it's easy, then maybe it doesn't
(38:07):
work out that way. I feel like all of us
that have done it to the level that we've done
it have had to fight and claw and scratch our
way into it.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
You know, certainly that's true. As far as finding the
sponsorship is concerned. The rest of it, I'm not sure
I agree with you, or I didn't think I did,
But finding sponsorship is, in my opinion, a big reason
why we don't see more women in the sport. That
(38:36):
and the fact that little girls don't normally grow up
race and go karts. Some of them do. I read
in USA Today that when Danica was a kid, her
family spent six figures a year on her go kart racing.
Not too many families like that. Wow. I don't know
how Sarah Fisher got started, but she certainly an outstanding driver.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, Sarah's a good friend. I looked up to her
as well for a number of different reasons, but mostly
because she put everything else to the side and just
focused on being the best driver that she could be.
And she was supportive of other women. I think along
the way, some of the women have seen other women
as competition, and I think there's a fine line with
(39:22):
that as well, like I would love to see other
women succeed, and I think that takes the championing of women,
if that makes sense. And I think Sarah was just
a really good person as well as a really great
race car driver.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, she's definitely one of my favorite people.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, Sam, So how did you go about getting sponsorship
and funding to race, or was it the teams came
to you with it already.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Well, my first team owner, Relivalst, came to me with
the funding in place rant heating and cooling, and after
that it got more and more difficult. I in seventy eight,
when I ran my own team, I had help from
a guy in New York who was a successful businessman,
(40:12):
but one of his major talents was fundraising, and he
decided that I ought to have a better shot. He
was really quite instrumental in my finding funding from Texico.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I remember both the Bryant car and the Texco car.
I id love to do throwback schemes of those two
because they were so iconic. How did you find when
you ran your own team? How did you find the
balance of being the team boss and being the driver?
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I remember almost wishing that I were in a position
of driving for somebody else. Again, Well, all I had
to do is get in the car and drive it
and not handle all the team owner responsibilities. Oh, well,
we have a new transaxle. Oh we don't have anything
(41:05):
to start it with. Oh, we need to have fabricated
the link between the starter engine and the transaxle. Oh,
who can handle that? Being a team owner was really difficult,
but it worked out all right. That's when I had
my best finish in spite of some difficulties.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Do you love the competition or do you love the cars?
Speaker 1 (41:27):
I love the competition. Cars are just a tool that
means to an end. I really don't have much interest
in cars, but as a means to an end, there's
no beating it. When I was flying, there was the
thrill of exercise and good equipment in an environment that
(41:48):
could pose certain hazards, although in flying those were minimal,
but racing added the exercising of the machinery and this
challenging environment. Added to that the door handle competition, where
you were responsible for the other person's well being as
(42:09):
well as trying to beat that driver into the next turn,
which makes it a very challenging combination.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, it's kind of like mortal combat, but you have
to use your brain at the same time. It's kind
of an interesting combination. I feel very much the same.
It's like you you can always do something better, like
experience counts for so much, but you're always learning and
you're always racing against yourself and everybody else. And all
the strategy and the feel through the seat of your pants,
and there's just so much to it that it just
(42:39):
keeps you motivated and keeps you driven. For want of
a better term, let's go post racing, how did you
get your kicks? Or how did you get that adrenaline
and that part of you? Because you're obviously you know,
way similar in a way that we need something to
keep us motivated and keep us going and like and
(43:01):
that's it. And I am happiest when I'm at a
racetrack and I've got something to focus on and I'm
working either towards the sponsorship or they're racing or whatever
it may be. Like when you stopped racing, how did
you get those kicks? Like not get bored?
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Unfortunately, there isn't anything that can replace racing, and I
missed it dreadfully badly for a good number of years
after I was forced out by lack of sponsorship. No,
I never have found anything to replace it. Actually, but
my life changed. I finally got married and bought a house,
(43:39):
and I gave dinner parties and started leading a relatively
normal life. But I never found anything to replace racing.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah, that terrifies me honestly, Like I, I don't know
what I want to do when that time comes, but
I just want to race as long as I can,
and then I probably will do something in racing. I
don't know, but yeah, maybe I'll get married. Who knows.
So if you could go back and give younger Janet
or younger Catherine advice, what would you say the most
(44:10):
important things to keep focused on?
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Well, that's easy. Be born rich. Yeah, when I look
back at swartzcar racing, that was a sport for the
wealth aid in my era, and I used to go
to a great deal of trouble to pretend I was
as rich as the rest of my competitors when actually
I was building my own engines in a rather dismal shop.
(44:37):
But you wouldn't find me looking as if I were
an engine builder. But yeah, that's the biggest problem is
finding the money to get it done. For sure.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Before I let you go, and I wish that we
could talk all day, to be honest, But you have
an upcoming movie coming out called speed Girl. I offered
to do the the stunt driving for it, so I'm
hoping that Clink gives me the nod and I can
do my ode to Janet, there and you're being played
by Hilary Swank. I believe to you, Yes, How does
(45:11):
that feel?
Speaker 1 (45:13):
I was very surprised when I learned about the project
because I had known nothing of it, and I was
also disappointed that they had based the movie on a
book that had certain problems and existed only as an ebook,
rather than on my own book, which took me twenty
(45:35):
seven years to finish and which I'm really quite proud of.
I think of it as my legacy. It's out of
print now, unfortunately, but there are still copies floating around
on eBay and Amazon. I haven't heard anything at all
about this project in quite some time now, so I
don't know whether it's on hold or what the story
(45:57):
is there. Movie isn't terribly important to me. The only
exception is that it might provide a way to get
my own book back and print again. That's what I
hope for. My own book got great reviews, but it
doesn't make any bestseller lists. I mean, Sports Illustrated called
it and I quote and uplifting work that is one
(46:18):
of the best books written about racing, and I did
read it myself. I didn't have a ghostwriter and I
would really like to see that book back and print again.
Apart from that a movie. Well, I have friends who
keep telling me, oh, you've got to make sure this
movie gets made, But to me, it's just a means
to an end.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Frankly, Yeah, maybe somebody out there is listening to us,
and maybe someone can have you a book put back
into print. But I think that it absolutely should be
and it should act as a inspiration for the future
generations that haven't read it or know anything of what
you've achieved, what we've achieved. My racing is a very
(46:58):
small genre, and I feel like it should be expanded
and I feel like more people should be exposed to it.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Well, I hope so.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Well, Janet, it's absolutely lovely talking to you. I appreciate
your time, and I appreciate everything you've done for the
sport in general, really, and I know that everybody always
focuses on the women in racing aspect, and that kind
of pisses me off sometimes if I'm honest, because we
just set out to be the best race card drivers
(47:30):
that we could be. But in the end, I think
what you did was incredibly special and I'm very grateful
to know you and class you as a friend.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Well, thank you, Thank you so much. It was a
pleasure talking with you.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Hopefully we can do it again soon. Thanks for listening
to Throttle Therapy. We'll be back next week with more
updates and more overtakes. We want to hear from you.
Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts and tell us
what you want to talk about. It might just be
the topic for hours. Next show. Throttle Therapy is hosted
by Katherine Legg. Our executive producer is Jesse Katz, and
(48:07):
our supervising producer is Grace Fuse. Listen to Throttle Therapy
on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free
iHeart app and search throttle Therapy with Katherine Legg and
start listening.
Host
Katherine Legge
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