November 4, 2025 • 29 mins
On this episode of Throttle Therapy, Katherine Legge checks in after the end of the NASCAR season and reveals her secret weakness. Also, Cara Krstolic joins Katherine to discuss authenticity, balancing professional expectations, and how racing has changed them both.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Throttle Therapy with Catherine Legg is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, and welcome to
(00:22):
this week's episode of Throttle Therapy with Me Catherine. As always,
I've had a busy week, you guys. I've been in Florida,
which was nice because the weather was a lot warmer
than it is here in Georgia. The leaves have changed
and I'm not ready for the weather. Everybody says they
love fall, and I do too, but I don't feel
(00:43):
like I had a summer this year because I was
away traveling at so many NASCAR races that I feel
like I would liked the warm weather to have lasted
a little bit longer. Anyway, I've been in Florida. We
were in Orlando at a conference called Lightex and text
was a conference that was put on by the wonderful
(01:03):
people at drop Light, who I have obviously been working
with all year, and it was a fantastic week. I
personally had a panel made up of incredible women and
there was five of us and honestly, it was so
cool and refreshing because we all got on like a
(01:23):
house on fire. It was like I found my people.
We were kindred spirits, and we've actually organized meeting all
of us meeting up again because we did get on
so well. It was it's never happened to me before
that we clicked that much. And it's also not usual
for me to be working with women, like normally, I'm
(01:44):
in a team that's mostly male, and so to meet
these other badass women. We had an NFL agent, we
had the head of HR for Siemens. We had Kara,
who obviously you know and love and wed and Tiffany
who is in PR and home improvement, and they're all
(02:05):
like kick ass women and it was really cool. We actually,
I probably shouldn't be sharing this, I probably am sharing
too much on throttle Therapy this week, but we decided
that instead of going out for dinner one night, we
were all going to just sit in the hot tub
and eat pizza. So that's exactly what we did, and
it was just really nice to find some kindred girls spirits.
(02:27):
Apart from that, they had a bunch of really cool
inspirational speakers, a lot of new and innovative companies come
down and it was just a very positive, refreshing week
where we shook a lot of hands, kissed a lot
of babies, and I feel like it was a massive success.
Then the wonderful fakes at drop Light took us to
(02:48):
Disney for an afternoon, so I got to go to
Epcot and do that around the world thing for a
few hours after getting on one ride that made me
incredibly sick. I don't know how many of you know this,
but I am. I get really bad motion sickness, which
I know is crazy because of what I do for
a living. But I've been car sick since I was
(03:08):
a very small child, and I still cannot to this day.
I can't sit in the back of cars without getting sick.
I can't do the simulator without taking the English version
of drama Meine because it makes me non drowsy. So
my uber drivers are always thoroughly pissed off because I'm like, hey,
I need to sit in the front with you. Makes
it very awkward. It also means that I don't know
(03:29):
but very often or I'm prepared and I take the
English version of drama Mean. Also on ferries and crossingsnake
when I used to go from Portsmouth to France when
we were racing in Europe when I was based in England,
we had to be very careful on the fairies because
they would make me sick too. Actually, one of my
teammates story time, one of my teammates, Olie Jarvis, who
(03:51):
is a dear friend of mine. He and I were
traveling together. We were racing for Audi and DTM and
we got given these badass cars. We were RS six
of ants, so the estate version of the R S
six probably one of the coolest cars I've ever owned.
And well I didn't own it, they did, but I digress.
We were driving them from England to France to drive
(04:13):
down through Germany to go to a race, and it
was particularly choppy and I'd already take him by the
same miss pills, but I was desperate and throwing up
into a garbage bin because they didn't make it to
the toilet. And some lady who worked on the ship
was most offended by this. I mean bear in mind,
like lots of people were actually were requesting sick bags
(04:36):
at this time, it wasn't just me. And so then
he's having this massive argument with her, like, where is
she supposed to throw up on the floor? She couldn't
make it. She made it to a bin, like at
least it's contained. A long story short, I was busy,
thrown up and giggling at the same time because Ollie
was like protecting my honor, which is very sweet. So
we went on a ride. I got sick and then
(04:58):
couldn't enjoy doing the around the World food tasting. We
went to English pub, which was cool because I haven't
been home all year, and on that note, I think
I will go home at some point, but my mom's
coming out to visit, and my Mum's coming out to
visit by herself, which is unheard of. I don't think
my mother and I have spent time together just us ever,
(05:21):
like since I was a child, and even then not really,
so I'm kind of excited. But also my mom and
I know how to push each other's buttons, so I've
got to be on my best behavior, and I'm sure
she's a little bit apprehentive about it too, but it
would be very cool anyway. I hope that this past
week at the Droplight conference has set me up for
(05:43):
next season. I'm still it was a bit of like
taking my mind off of what's to come because I'm
trying to put all the pieces together for next year,
which means putting myself in the best situation with teams
and with sponsors and drop Light half my back, which
I'll be eternally grateful for, but trying to pin down
(06:04):
the rest of it, like which race is, what are
we doing, how are we doing it with? Who are
we doing it? You know? The NASCAR season ended yesterday.
I was kind of cheering for Danny. I have to say,
I thought he deserved it. I thought he has basically
dominated this year. And I was sad that the tire
issue had so much influence in what happened in the
(06:29):
finale race yesterday, but it was what it was, and
I'm really happy for Kyle and his family. So now
that that race is over, there all doing a big
banquet tomorrow or today, as it will be for you,
and then hopefully we can start getting things knocked out
and sorted and planning for next season properly because it's
(06:52):
giving me anxiety, you guys. Anyway, in the essence of
a wonderful panel and talking about lots of very cool
things like leadership and what it's like to be a
woman and how much we focus on it and all
the things. This week, we have Carra back on the
(07:12):
show this week, So welcome Carara. Today we are joined
by one of my best friends in the whole entire universe,
complete badass and motorsport of Fisheronado, Kara Krystalik. How are you,
(07:39):
Kara Hi?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
It takes a badass to know about its Ah.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Thanks, there's a mutual appreciation society today. So before we
delve into all the wonderful topics that we have today
that we've been speaking about and you came up with
because you are the most organized person that I know,
but none like if anybody needs a spreadsheet, maid or
a plan put into place, like logistics, anything like that.
(08:04):
Car is your person. She's amazing. But before we dive
into all of your other wonderful attributes, what have you
been up to in the last couple of months since
we spoke on the pod.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
So what I've been doing, My main thing is preparing
for next year. So if you think about my work
life and then my home life, right now everything is
revolved around.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
What the indie car season looks like next year.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
And how do we best prepare for that all the
things we need to do with the new racetracks, the
new car loads, the new everything, so resurfacing. Now they're
finishing some resurfacing at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway that they
did on turn two. There's new racetracks, so it is
a NonStop. If you think my spreadsheets looks crazy, you
should look at my plane and a spreadsheet for work.
(08:48):
And then just because I have to get a plug
in for my sister here. If you think my spreadsheets
are crazy, you should see and Marie's Katney and Marie
and I have been on skiing trips before, but she
has the spreadsheet of all spreadsheets for everything, holiday planning
and meals.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And I've actually.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Adopted some of her spreadsheets because yes, how do you
plan Thanksgiving without Microsoft itself.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It's interesting what racing does to you to give you
like superpowers, like how it's changed your life, Like I
wonder how different would we be if we went in racing?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, how different would we be? And then how do
you reconcile those two people?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Right?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
You are you're a racing person, and you are who
you are normally. I know, for me, it's it's super
difficult sometimes because part of my role is, all, right, listen,
we need to make sure you're running the right conditions
for your tires.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
We need to make sure you're doing this, and you have.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
The responsibility for you of representing your sponsor and your team,
and for me my organization, which is wonderful and lets
me be myself. But at the same time, sometimes part
of my role makes me seem a little stricter and intimidating,
but my core nature is soft and nurturing.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, I'm more lucky that I don't necessarily work in
corporate America. I get to be myself a little bit more.
And actually, I think since since I got a bit
older and since Elf came along, I think that has
allowed me to be more authentically me. Like I was
always super paranoid about, okay, the way that I look,
(10:21):
because everybody's like, oh, you've got to lose weight, but
you've got to be strong, Oh you've got to dress
this way, And so I was never comfortable in my
own skin until the last couple of years. I always
wanted to portray a look that I never got right,
and I had this image in my head of who
I wanted to be and I wanted to be like
the female version of whichever driver, let's say Gensen Button
(10:44):
And so I was professional and clean cut and all
the things, but still feminine, but not like overtly feminine.
And then you know, I wanted to be taken seriously,
so I couldn't show emotion. And there's just like this
whole thing where you are a robot in a way, right.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
But I didn't give it all those expectations.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, and I did. It was really tough and I
didn't get it right. And then when Elf came along
and I realized, you know, screw it, I am who
I am now, and so I'm gonna be me. So
I can be girly and I can still be professional
and I can I mean honestly though I don't show
that much emotion. I think because it's been twenty years
(11:25):
of me being a robot, right, which is good because
you've got to control it.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
You need to have a little bit of a filter.
But it's still good to be authentically yourself.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah it's me, and I'll leave the single swim buter
is you get what you get. I've tried to be
like super authentic on here. I think it's just unfiltered Catherine,
but it feels so freeing. Yeah, honestly, it's so nice.
And I know you can't necessarily do that because you
can't call people wankers in your job you might get fired.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, I really appreciate this transformation that you and Elf
are doing and how you're bringing just more visibility to
some of the struggles that you can have trying to
be the person that people expect you to be and
still be authentically yourself. So that's been really good. I
just remember trying to navigate you coming back into IndyCar
(12:19):
for the first time and wanting to be like, that's
my best friend, and then like, oh, this is a
this is one of our other racing drivers. And I
just remember, and we've talked about this before, but that
first time that I saw you back in IndyCar and
I was like, I have to be professional me and
I can smile and wait for you, but I can't
come up and.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Give you a hug on the pitstand. Was I'm like,
that's ridiculous. Who's telling me this that I can't do this?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
This is this is like I'm going to support my
friends and I'm also going to be professional at the
same time.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
But it's it's been interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, it's tough because it's racing, so everybody has conspiracy
theories as well. So I just played into them. And
I know you hated it.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
On the broadcast when you're like, no, no.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
There's no way. On god'screw is as straight as they come. Like,
nobody gets special ties, nobody gets special treatment. If you're
not running the cambat, you get in trouble. If you're
not running the toe, you get in trouble. So this
probably gave her a nightmare. And and I love making
her uncomfortable because that's just the kind of friend I am.
Like Carra is how engineer who does not like physical contact.
(13:25):
So I make sure that car, especially along and especially.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
It's just like two seconds longer than what my comfort
level is and I just start to swirming a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
But I've gotten better. Catherine. Catherine is kind of like
in the huggers category, except for when she intentionally.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
All the time. I love it, and so yeah, and
then broadcast, I said, well, you know, I've got special
times from car and so immediately the paddock is like
she gets special times. Of course, not that would be ridiculous.
She's way too professional for that. Although I'm open to
it if you are.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, I don't think that aligns with what I'm going
to do.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
No, I don't need the diamond, But I mean I
think that it's probably I think initially it was hard
for me to, as you said, reconcile Catherine and racing
Catherine as two different people. But I think that it's
harder for you in corporate America land, like because you
have a lot of different layers and a lot of
(14:27):
different policies and HR and all the things. And yeah,
it's it's interesting because you can't be friends with everybody
who works with you, underneath you, above you, and all
the things, whereas in a team environment it's slightly different.
It's like if we spoke to other people like we
(14:51):
speak to our crew chiefs and our engineers, we would
have no friends. Like for those of you who have
listened to radio interactions in between any driver and they're
and if they're not having a good day and their engineers,
we're like of court, like was swearing at them and
saying that they're stupid, and they're doing the same to us,
(15:11):
And it can be good, better and different, and we
try and do our best not to but emotion is
high and you can't do that right vitually.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Well, and then like for you as a driver, understanding
the heat of the moment. So we get a lot
of feedback from our drivers in the series two. And
one thing that I'm always trying to remember is you
guys are out there driving and at any moment something
bad could happen. So you have that probably stuff down
below and you don't think about it, but I think
(15:42):
you know the amount of stress that you have, not
just as as a driver, but as a like, hey,
I'm out there, I'm risking everything and I try to
make sure I keep that and I'm sure your engineers
do and I'm sure your spotters do. Is there's a
whole onion of complexity under some mad about this, or
mad about a tire set, a mad about an inche
(16:03):
map or something like that. I think it's you have
to just understand the human behind it. And a lot
of times I think people look at drivers and think.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
That they should just be robotic and.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Just be the what's the nut that connects the steering
biel to the seats or just another sensor in the car.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I've heard that before. They're just another sensor in the car.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
And in fact, there was one time where there was
a different set of tires and you know, for some reason,
our our engineer sent something up with the teams that said, hey,
this is a different spec and for some reason that
didn't get to you as a driver, right, And I
was really surprised by that, And you know, talking to
(16:42):
the engineer afterwards, they're like, well, we don't really want
to tell the driver when there's something different. And I thought, well,
that's interesting, because if you want to help the driver
learn and develop, it's good to have those Oh, by
the way, this could be different.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, I think that's a testing thing there, right, Like
they test us because they want to know, like authentically,
we have no preconceived ideas. In that particular case, it
was done. But in other cases there have been times
where we've been testing and they've made a change and
they haven't told you what the change is because they
want a unfiltered version. Whereas if they said, hey, we've
(17:17):
gone two hundred pounds different on the riss spring, or
we've done this with the front do bar or whatever bar, whatever, whatever,
then in our heads, we've got a whole good frame
of reference of what that has done before that we're
looking at it through that filter. So while I try
not to at any given time, I always take each
(17:38):
change on merit, and sometimes I don't ask, and sometimes
I do. It's good to know, at least after the fact,
because then we can keep building on that experience and
I don't know, like spreadsheet in our minds car of
like what these changes do. So that if we're in
(17:59):
the middle of a race and it's different with the
Nascara stuff, we make significant changes during the race that
every pit stop to make the car better. You can't
necessarily change wedge and do all that in an IndyCar
during the race. But if my criach, you've said to me, okay,
we could do this or that, what do you think?
(18:19):
Then my mind goes to I think it feels more
like this problem than of that problem, and so we
need that frame of reference. But I think it's it
very much feels like they don't trust your feedback and
they don't respect you as a driver when they do
that testing thing. I understand it, but it still doesn't
feel really great.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Honestly, Yeah, I can believe it, and there is something
to be said about a not giving a preconceived notion.
And there are a couple of drivers that I know
I worked with before you are one of them. Tony
Kanaan was another where I could make a teeny tiny
minuscule change in the tire and you would know what
it is. You could you could tell me exactly why
(19:01):
the change that we made affected the car because of
how it handled the weight transfer as it was going
into the corner or something like that. So there is
there is that, and then there's also something to be
said about as engineers, we like to see a blind test.
We would like to see Okay, I'm going to you know,
we did our tire test at at Gateway last week
with h Lucas and Kirkwood, and you know, we give
(19:25):
them a list and if there's something that's going to
be they need to pay attention to it because it's different.
We're going to tell them that, hey, this is this
is X, and just just so you know, when you're
going into it, if you feel anything different, it's because
of this.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
But then there are a lot of changes where it could.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Be a material change, it could be an angle change
where we just want to run them through. They're not
outside of the what you should expect out of a tire.
But sometimes as a as a scientist, I want to
have as as pure data as I can and if
if I know, I don't have any brief conceived notions
or inputs not And both drivers were wonderful to work with,
but you still want to have that engineering science mindset
(20:04):
where take all the variables out so I could see
on the driver's side. Why that way that it could
be like, ah, why don't you just tell me everything's
going on. But at the same time, as long as
we come back later and say, okay, here is the
change you made, the change that you liked was accent attire,
then you can help.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Educate them for the future.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I wonder how many people in the paddent go around
not being authentically them. There are some people it's just
like a life thing, like there are some people that
I really like, but I struggle to get close to.
I'll find a connection with, you know, but you know
you would, but they're just like guard is up. I
wonder how many people in the padocod genuine and whether
(20:53):
you gravitate towards those kind of people, or I mean
it typically is an engineering trait as well, to be
it is cold.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
It is it is like I there are two or
three engineers that are in the series that I thought, like,
I haven't really getting along really well with you outside
of the car. Not that I don't, but it's just
more of a rigid and like it's always interesting to me,
and I think, yes, it is a bit of an
engineering trait.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I don't know. I think I think that's a really
interesting question.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Do you think that because I've had this conversation with
Andy Dalley and he's one of the ones who is
a big proponent of robot. Be a robot. Don't show
any emotion, don't show weakness, don't show strength. I tried
to do that for a while, like you like, m swallow,
swallow all like no, just push it all down, like
you said. But I wonder if there is a place
(21:46):
and a time for it, because sometimes that emotion is
what derives you. But I do remember, justin Wilson as
as you do, being one of the people that I
really looked up to and wanted to be like when
I grew up because his ability to be calm and
leave so much brain power for doing everything else rather
(22:07):
than being emotional.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
But he was still passionate too. It's not that she
just he wasn't emotional. He was passionate, but not any
He never I never saw him overreact. We did several
tire tests with.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Him, and I never saw him like.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, yeah. But you look at like a lot of
Formula One drivers these days too, and they're all the same.
It's like samey Samy because they've all been trained to
be this robot. So then it's harder for the sport
as a whole because there's no personalities for the fans
to get behind and involved with. And so I think
there's a happy medium, but it's a lot of mental
(22:42):
training that it takes to get to that happy medium.
And who knows whether you got it right or not.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, I bet.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
And I think like you said, and not just finding
the happy medium, but being the time and place, like
there are certain times where it's good to like, I'm
not going to react how I really want to react now,
not going to say the things that I really want
to say, but I still need to say those things
in maybe the forum is different, or maybe the timing
(23:08):
is different, or maybe I have waits. Yeah, it's tough, right,
but wait to talk to the person one on one later,
as opposed to in front of a group.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Things like that.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
I mean they're leadership challenges too, right as leading a
team of engineers, we talked about engineering personalities leading a
team of engineers. When you need to correct someone sometimes
you don't want to do it in front of the team.
You want to give them praise in front of the
whole team, but correct them on one. So maybe there's
(23:37):
some parallels there when it comes to racing and driving
and giving feedback.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, it must be difficult working with all those engineers,
like when you do give them feedback to know whether
it's gone in or whether it's like landed properly or
how why want them where if they are also robots,
it like you.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Don't want to do. Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
You don't want to do like too much of a compliment,
say much where people are like, but they said that
I was great, So yeah, it's a feedback is always difficult.
But one nice thing about you know, most engineers is
most engineers are like, hey, I want to don't just
tell me I'm doing a good job, Like tell me
what I need to do to improve, which is kind
of what I do is like, hey, if there is something,
(24:17):
there's something that I can do to improve what I'm doing,
and you can help me out with that.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
You're giving me a favor by giving me the feedback
when I'm in a mood to accept it.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Right, that's the same same, but that's the same for everybody,
like if I'm in the mood to accept it or not.
So interesting question, because your company is Japanese by origin,
are there any like trickle down ethos things that you
think came from being Japanese? Like is that specifically? Very
(24:52):
unemotional too? Because I have a mental picture of how
corporate Japan works compared to corporate America. I found it
to be massively different. The reason I asked, massively different
racing here as to racing in Europe, right, Like the atmosphere,
the family kind of team thing, the ethos is just
(25:15):
very vasty different, like hugely massively different different worlds to me.
And I've never been exposed to the japan world, so
I would imagine that it is different. I just don't
know how.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
So Bridgetone's actually a global organization with like you said,
Bridgestone roots from Japan and then the Firestone roots from
really close to where I am in Ohio here, so
we have different influences. And we actually have a tech
center in Rome, Italy too, and I've found a lot
of differences working with the different cultures. It's been interesting,
(25:47):
but I think it can also help you grow. One
thing that we've done recently is formed a global motorsports organization,
and that's really interesting because the gentleman leading this up
has bridged on japan experience. He worked on Formula one
back when he was in Bridgetown, Japan, and then he
moved to McLaren F one and was with McLaren F
one for sixteen years and he was leaving technical director
(26:10):
Hiroshi am I. For those motorsports people that borrow Formula one,
I'm sure you're familiar with him. He helped lead his
team at McLaren into a championship, so really interesting. We
talked about some of the some of the things that
could influence in a good way. One of the things
that he has and I love this is just no
ego like going into this, going into a conversation, going
(26:32):
into something and not taking it personally, which again is
kind of a challenge for a lot of people, I think,
but being able to go into something and like how
do we come up with the best solution. How So
it's very interesting because sometimes I talked to Hiroshie and
he seems Japanese and sometimes I talked to Hiroshi and
he seems like he's been living in England for sixteen years.
(26:52):
So I really appreciated working with him. And we're going
to do some pretty cool things with our global motorsports.
But yeah, like you said, cultures are different, and how
we approach things and how we handle things are definitely different.
And I think, you know, we talk about why it's
important to have maybe different people on designing different things.
(27:13):
I think it's good important to have different cultures involved,
and especially if we're doing something in the global global space.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, diversity, I guess I often, like you can tell
my mind, one does like think, Okay, what would I
be like if I had been born me but grew
up in Japan or in America, I would be different
or in South America? Like what would that version of
me look like? And how does your environment influence who
(27:41):
you turn into?
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I think we're getting very philosophical nature versus nurture.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
I often think about you know how I grew up,
and you know the fact that you know my my parents,
like yours were supportive and helped us to get where
we're at. I feel like there were several maybe key
points in my life where I could have made a
different decision and been a completely different output and completely.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Different person doing completely different things.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
I mean, I don't think I was going to be
a balerie to astronaut scientist like I thought it was
when I was well, But there are several different key
moments in your life where you're like, I want to
made this decision with this it should could have altered
the course of what I am now.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Well, I'm very much looking forward to seeing you and
we get to do lots of cool stuff together where
our worlds collide, not just as friends but as colleagues
as well. So I'm very grateful that I can be
authentically me around you, and I can't wait for the
next time to have.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
You on the show, Same girl theme.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Thanks for listening to Throttle Therapy. We'll be back next
week with more updates and more overtakes. We want to
hear from you. Leave us a review, in Apple Podcasts
and tell us what you want to talk about. It
might just be the topic for our next show. Throttle
Therapy is hosted by Katherine Legg, our executive producer Jesse Katz,
and our supervising producer is Grace Fuse. Listen to Throttle
(29:05):
Therapy on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your
free iHeart app and search throttle Therapy with Katherine Leigh
and start listening.
Throttle Therapy with Catherine Legg is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, and welcome to
(00:22):
this week's episode of Throttle Therapy with Me Catherine. As always,
I've had a busy week, you guys. I've been in Florida,
which was nice because the weather was a lot warmer
than it is here in Georgia. The leaves have changed
and I'm not ready for the weather. Everybody says they
love fall, and I do too, but I don't feel
(00:43):
like I had a summer this year because I was
away traveling at so many NASCAR races that I feel
like I would liked the warm weather to have lasted
a little bit longer. Anyway, I've been in Florida. We
were in Orlando at a conference called Lightex and text
was a conference that was put on by the wonderful
(01:03):
people at drop Light, who I have obviously been working
with all year, and it was a fantastic week. I
personally had a panel made up of incredible women and
there was five of us and honestly, it was so
cool and refreshing because we all got on like a
(01:23):
house on fire. It was like I found my people.
We were kindred spirits, and we've actually organized meeting all
of us meeting up again because we did get on
so well. It was it's never happened to me before
that we clicked that much. And it's also not usual
for me to be working with women, like normally, I'm
(01:44):
in a team that's mostly male, and so to meet
these other badass women. We had an NFL agent, we
had the head of HR for Siemens. We had Kara,
who obviously you know and love and wed and Tiffany
who is in PR and home improvement, and they're all
(02:05):
like kick ass women and it was really cool. We actually,
I probably shouldn't be sharing this, I probably am sharing
too much on throttle Therapy this week, but we decided
that instead of going out for dinner one night, we
were all going to just sit in the hot tub
and eat pizza. So that's exactly what we did, and
it was just really nice to find some kindred girls spirits.
(02:27):
Apart from that, they had a bunch of really cool
inspirational speakers, a lot of new and innovative companies come
down and it was just a very positive, refreshing week
where we shook a lot of hands, kissed a lot
of babies, and I feel like it was a massive success.
Then the wonderful fakes at drop Light took us to
(02:48):
Disney for an afternoon, so I got to go to
Epcot and do that around the world thing for a
few hours after getting on one ride that made me
incredibly sick. I don't know how many of you know this,
but I am. I get really bad motion sickness, which
I know is crazy because of what I do for
a living. But I've been car sick since I was
(03:08):
a very small child, and I still cannot to this day.
I can't sit in the back of cars without getting sick.
I can't do the simulator without taking the English version
of drama Meine because it makes me non drowsy. So
my uber drivers are always thoroughly pissed off because I'm like, hey,
I need to sit in the front with you. Makes
it very awkward. It also means that I don't know
(03:29):
but very often or I'm prepared and I take the
English version of drama Mean. Also on ferries and crossingsnake
when I used to go from Portsmouth to France when
we were racing in Europe when I was based in England,
we had to be very careful on the fairies because
they would make me sick too. Actually, one of my
teammates story time, one of my teammates, Olie Jarvis, who
(03:51):
is a dear friend of mine. He and I were
traveling together. We were racing for Audi and DTM and
we got given these badass cars. We were RS six
of ants, so the estate version of the R S
six probably one of the coolest cars I've ever owned.
And well I didn't own it, they did, but I digress.
We were driving them from England to France to drive
(04:13):
down through Germany to go to a race, and it
was particularly choppy and I'd already take him by the
same miss pills, but I was desperate and throwing up
into a garbage bin because they didn't make it to
the toilet. And some lady who worked on the ship
was most offended by this. I mean bear in mind,
like lots of people were actually were requesting sick bags
(04:36):
at this time, it wasn't just me. And so then
he's having this massive argument with her, like, where is
she supposed to throw up on the floor? She couldn't
make it. She made it to a bin, like at
least it's contained. A long story short, I was busy,
thrown up and giggling at the same time because Ollie
was like protecting my honor, which is very sweet. So
we went on a ride. I got sick and then
(04:58):
couldn't enjoy doing the around the World food tasting. We
went to English pub, which was cool because I haven't
been home all year, and on that note, I think
I will go home at some point, but my mom's
coming out to visit, and my Mum's coming out to
visit by herself, which is unheard of. I don't think
my mother and I have spent time together just us ever,
(05:21):
like since I was a child, and even then not really,
so I'm kind of excited. But also my mom and
I know how to push each other's buttons, so I've
got to be on my best behavior, and I'm sure
she's a little bit apprehentive about it too, but it
would be very cool anyway. I hope that this past
week at the Droplight conference has set me up for
(05:43):
next season. I'm still it was a bit of like
taking my mind off of what's to come because I'm
trying to put all the pieces together for next year,
which means putting myself in the best situation with teams
and with sponsors and drop Light half my back, which
I'll be eternally grateful for, but trying to pin down
(06:04):
the rest of it, like which race is, what are
we doing, how are we doing it with? Who are
we doing it? You know? The NASCAR season ended yesterday.
I was kind of cheering for Danny. I have to say,
I thought he deserved it. I thought he has basically
dominated this year. And I was sad that the tire
issue had so much influence in what happened in the
(06:29):
finale race yesterday, but it was what it was, and
I'm really happy for Kyle and his family. So now
that that race is over, there all doing a big
banquet tomorrow or today, as it will be for you,
and then hopefully we can start getting things knocked out
and sorted and planning for next season properly because it's
(06:52):
giving me anxiety, you guys. Anyway, in the essence of
a wonderful panel and talking about lots of very cool
things like leadership and what it's like to be a
woman and how much we focus on it and all
the things. This week, we have Carra back on the
(07:12):
show this week, So welcome Carara. Today we are joined
by one of my best friends in the whole entire universe,
complete badass and motorsport of Fisheronado, Kara Krystalik. How are you,
(07:39):
Kara Hi?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
It takes a badass to know about its Ah.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Thanks, there's a mutual appreciation society today. So before we
delve into all the wonderful topics that we have today
that we've been speaking about and you came up with
because you are the most organized person that I know,
but none like if anybody needs a spreadsheet, maid or
a plan put into place, like logistics, anything like that.
(08:04):
Car is your person. She's amazing. But before we dive
into all of your other wonderful attributes, what have you
been up to in the last couple of months since
we spoke on the pod.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
So what I've been doing, My main thing is preparing
for next year. So if you think about my work
life and then my home life, right now everything is
revolved around.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
What the indie car season looks like next year.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
And how do we best prepare for that all the
things we need to do with the new racetracks, the
new car loads, the new everything, so resurfacing. Now they're
finishing some resurfacing at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway that they
did on turn two. There's new racetracks, so it is
a NonStop. If you think my spreadsheets looks crazy, you
should look at my plane and a spreadsheet for work.
(08:48):
And then just because I have to get a plug
in for my sister here. If you think my spreadsheets
are crazy, you should see and Marie's Katney and Marie
and I have been on skiing trips before, but she
has the spreadsheet of all spreadsheets for everything, holiday planning
and meals.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And I've actually.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Adopted some of her spreadsheets because yes, how do you
plan Thanksgiving without Microsoft itself.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It's interesting what racing does to you to give you
like superpowers, like how it's changed your life, Like I
wonder how different would we be if we went in racing?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, how different would we be? And then how do
you reconcile those two people?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Right?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
You are you're a racing person, and you are who
you are normally. I know, for me, it's it's super
difficult sometimes because part of my role is, all, right, listen,
we need to make sure you're running the right conditions
for your tires.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
We need to make sure you're doing this, and you have.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
The responsibility for you of representing your sponsor and your team,
and for me my organization, which is wonderful and lets
me be myself. But at the same time, sometimes part
of my role makes me seem a little stricter and intimidating,
but my core nature is soft and nurturing.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, I'm more lucky that I don't necessarily work in
corporate America. I get to be myself a little bit more.
And actually, I think since since I got a bit
older and since Elf came along, I think that has
allowed me to be more authentically me. Like I was
always super paranoid about, okay, the way that I look,
(10:21):
because everybody's like, oh, you've got to lose weight, but
you've got to be strong, Oh you've got to dress
this way, And so I was never comfortable in my
own skin until the last couple of years. I always
wanted to portray a look that I never got right,
and I had this image in my head of who
I wanted to be and I wanted to be like
the female version of whichever driver, let's say Gensen Button
(10:44):
And so I was professional and clean cut and all
the things, but still feminine, but not like overtly feminine.
And then you know, I wanted to be taken seriously,
so I couldn't show emotion. And there's just like this
whole thing where you are a robot in a way, right.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
But I didn't give it all those expectations.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, and I did. It was really tough and I
didn't get it right. And then when Elf came along
and I realized, you know, screw it, I am who
I am now, and so I'm gonna be me. So
I can be girly and I can still be professional
and I can I mean honestly though I don't show
that much emotion. I think because it's been twenty years
(11:25):
of me being a robot, right, which is good because
you've got to control it.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
You need to have a little bit of a filter.
But it's still good to be authentically yourself.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah it's me, and I'll leave the single swim buter
is you get what you get. I've tried to be
like super authentic on here. I think it's just unfiltered Catherine,
but it feels so freeing. Yeah, honestly, it's so nice.
And I know you can't necessarily do that because you
can't call people wankers in your job you might get fired.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, I really appreciate this transformation that you and Elf
are doing and how you're bringing just more visibility to
some of the struggles that you can have trying to
be the person that people expect you to be and
still be authentically yourself. So that's been really good. I
just remember trying to navigate you coming back into IndyCar
(12:19):
for the first time and wanting to be like, that's
my best friend, and then like, oh, this is a
this is one of our other racing drivers. And I
just remember, and we've talked about this before, but that
first time that I saw you back in IndyCar and
I was like, I have to be professional me and
I can smile and wait for you, but I can't
come up and.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Give you a hug on the pitstand. Was I'm like,
that's ridiculous. Who's telling me this that I can't do this?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
This is this is like I'm going to support my
friends and I'm also going to be professional at the
same time.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
But it's it's been interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, it's tough because it's racing, so everybody has conspiracy
theories as well. So I just played into them. And
I know you hated it.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
On the broadcast when you're like, no, no.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
There's no way. On god'screw is as straight as they come. Like,
nobody gets special ties, nobody gets special treatment. If you're
not running the cambat, you get in trouble. If you're
not running the toe, you get in trouble. So this
probably gave her a nightmare. And and I love making
her uncomfortable because that's just the kind of friend I am.
Like Carra is how engineer who does not like physical contact.
(13:25):
So I make sure that car, especially along and especially.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
It's just like two seconds longer than what my comfort
level is and I just start to swirming a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
But I've gotten better. Catherine. Catherine is kind of like
in the huggers category, except for when she intentionally.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
All the time. I love it, and so yeah, and
then broadcast, I said, well, you know, I've got special
times from car and so immediately the paddock is like
she gets special times. Of course, not that would be ridiculous.
She's way too professional for that. Although I'm open to
it if you are.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, I don't think that aligns with what I'm going
to do.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
No, I don't need the diamond, But I mean I
think that it's probably I think initially it was hard
for me to, as you said, reconcile Catherine and racing
Catherine as two different people. But I think that it's
harder for you in corporate America land, like because you
have a lot of different layers and a lot of
(14:27):
different policies and HR and all the things. And yeah,
it's it's interesting because you can't be friends with everybody
who works with you, underneath you, above you, and all
the things, whereas in a team environment it's slightly different.
It's like if we spoke to other people like we
(14:51):
speak to our crew chiefs and our engineers, we would
have no friends. Like for those of you who have
listened to radio interactions in between any driver and they're
and if they're not having a good day and their engineers,
we're like of court, like was swearing at them and
saying that they're stupid, and they're doing the same to us,
(15:11):
And it can be good, better and different, and we
try and do our best not to but emotion is
high and you can't do that right vitually.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Well, and then like for you as a driver, understanding
the heat of the moment. So we get a lot
of feedback from our drivers in the series two. And
one thing that I'm always trying to remember is you
guys are out there driving and at any moment something
bad could happen. So you have that probably stuff down
below and you don't think about it, but I think
(15:42):
you know the amount of stress that you have, not
just as as a driver, but as a like, hey,
I'm out there, I'm risking everything and I try to
make sure I keep that and I'm sure your engineers
do and I'm sure your spotters do. Is there's a
whole onion of complexity under some mad about this, or
mad about a tire set, a mad about an inche
(16:03):
map or something like that. I think it's you have
to just understand the human behind it. And a lot
of times I think people look at drivers and think.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
That they should just be robotic and.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Just be the what's the nut that connects the steering
biel to the seats or just another sensor in the car.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I've heard that before. They're just another sensor in the car.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
And in fact, there was one time where there was
a different set of tires and you know, for some reason,
our our engineer sent something up with the teams that said, hey,
this is a different spec and for some reason that
didn't get to you as a driver, right, And I
was really surprised by that, And you know, talking to
(16:42):
the engineer afterwards, they're like, well, we don't really want
to tell the driver when there's something different. And I thought, well,
that's interesting, because if you want to help the driver
learn and develop, it's good to have those Oh, by
the way, this could be different.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, I think that's a testing thing there, right, Like
they test us because they want to know, like authentically,
we have no preconceived ideas. In that particular case, it
was done. But in other cases there have been times
where we've been testing and they've made a change and
they haven't told you what the change is because they
want a unfiltered version. Whereas if they said, hey, we've
(17:17):
gone two hundred pounds different on the riss spring, or
we've done this with the front do bar or whatever bar, whatever, whatever,
then in our heads, we've got a whole good frame
of reference of what that has done before that we're
looking at it through that filter. So while I try
not to at any given time, I always take each
(17:38):
change on merit, and sometimes I don't ask, and sometimes
I do. It's good to know, at least after the fact,
because then we can keep building on that experience and
I don't know, like spreadsheet in our minds car of
like what these changes do. So that if we're in
(17:59):
the middle of a race and it's different with the
Nascara stuff, we make significant changes during the race that
every pit stop to make the car better. You can't
necessarily change wedge and do all that in an IndyCar
during the race. But if my criach, you've said to me, okay,
we could do this or that, what do you think?
(18:19):
Then my mind goes to I think it feels more
like this problem than of that problem, and so we
need that frame of reference. But I think it's it
very much feels like they don't trust your feedback and
they don't respect you as a driver when they do
that testing thing. I understand it, but it still doesn't
feel really great.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Honestly, Yeah, I can believe it, and there is something
to be said about a not giving a preconceived notion.
And there are a couple of drivers that I know
I worked with before you are one of them. Tony
Kanaan was another where I could make a teeny tiny
minuscule change in the tire and you would know what
it is. You could you could tell me exactly why
(19:01):
the change that we made affected the car because of
how it handled the weight transfer as it was going
into the corner or something like that. So there is
there is that, and then there's also something to be
said about as engineers, we like to see a blind test.
We would like to see Okay, I'm going to you know,
we did our tire test at at Gateway last week
with h Lucas and Kirkwood, and you know, we give
(19:25):
them a list and if there's something that's going to
be they need to pay attention to it because it's different.
We're going to tell them that, hey, this is this
is X, and just just so you know, when you're
going into it, if you feel anything different, it's because
of this.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
But then there are a lot of changes where it could.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Be a material change, it could be an angle change
where we just want to run them through. They're not
outside of the what you should expect out of a tire.
But sometimes as a as a scientist, I want to
have as as pure data as I can and if
if I know, I don't have any brief conceived notions
or inputs not And both drivers were wonderful to work with,
but you still want to have that engineering science mindset
(20:04):
where take all the variables out so I could see
on the driver's side. Why that way that it could
be like, ah, why don't you just tell me everything's
going on. But at the same time, as long as
we come back later and say, okay, here is the
change you made, the change that you liked was accent attire,
then you can help.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Educate them for the future.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I wonder how many people in the paddent go around
not being authentically them. There are some people it's just
like a life thing, like there are some people that
I really like, but I struggle to get close to.
I'll find a connection with, you know, but you know
you would, but they're just like guard is up. I
wonder how many people in the padocod genuine and whether
(20:53):
you gravitate towards those kind of people, or I mean
it typically is an engineering trait as well, to be
it is cold.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
It is it is like I there are two or
three engineers that are in the series that I thought, like,
I haven't really getting along really well with you outside
of the car. Not that I don't, but it's just
more of a rigid and like it's always interesting to me,
and I think, yes, it is a bit of an
engineering trait.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I don't know. I think I think that's a really
interesting question.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Do you think that because I've had this conversation with
Andy Dalley and he's one of the ones who is
a big proponent of robot. Be a robot. Don't show
any emotion, don't show weakness, don't show strength. I tried
to do that for a while, like you like, m swallow,
swallow all like no, just push it all down, like
you said. But I wonder if there is a place
(21:46):
and a time for it, because sometimes that emotion is
what derives you. But I do remember, justin Wilson as
as you do, being one of the people that I
really looked up to and wanted to be like when
I grew up because his ability to be calm and
leave so much brain power for doing everything else rather
(22:07):
than being emotional.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
But he was still passionate too. It's not that she
just he wasn't emotional. He was passionate, but not any
He never I never saw him overreact. We did several
tire tests with.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Him, and I never saw him like.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, yeah. But you look at like a lot of
Formula One drivers these days too, and they're all the same.
It's like samey Samy because they've all been trained to
be this robot. So then it's harder for the sport
as a whole because there's no personalities for the fans
to get behind and involved with. And so I think
there's a happy medium, but it's a lot of mental
(22:42):
training that it takes to get to that happy medium.
And who knows whether you got it right or not.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, I bet.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
And I think like you said, and not just finding
the happy medium, but being the time and place, like
there are certain times where it's good to like, I'm
not going to react how I really want to react now,
not going to say the things that I really want
to say, but I still need to say those things
in maybe the forum is different, or maybe the timing
(23:08):
is different, or maybe I have waits. Yeah, it's tough, right,
but wait to talk to the person one on one later,
as opposed to in front of a group.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Things like that.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
I mean they're leadership challenges too, right as leading a
team of engineers, we talked about engineering personalities leading a
team of engineers. When you need to correct someone sometimes
you don't want to do it in front of the team.
You want to give them praise in front of the
whole team, but correct them on one. So maybe there's
(23:37):
some parallels there when it comes to racing and driving
and giving feedback.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, it must be difficult working with all those engineers,
like when you do give them feedback to know whether
it's gone in or whether it's like landed properly or
how why want them where if they are also robots,
it like you.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Don't want to do. Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
You don't want to do like too much of a compliment,
say much where people are like, but they said that
I was great, So yeah, it's a feedback is always difficult.
But one nice thing about you know, most engineers is
most engineers are like, hey, I want to don't just
tell me I'm doing a good job, Like tell me
what I need to do to improve, which is kind
of what I do is like, hey, if there is something,
(24:17):
there's something that I can do to improve what I'm doing,
and you can help me out with that.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
You're giving me a favor by giving me the feedback
when I'm in a mood to accept it.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Right, that's the same same, but that's the same for everybody,
like if I'm in the mood to accept it or not.
So interesting question, because your company is Japanese by origin,
are there any like trickle down ethos things that you
think came from being Japanese? Like is that specifically? Very
(24:52):
unemotional too? Because I have a mental picture of how
corporate Japan works compared to corporate America. I found it
to be massively different. The reason I asked, massively different
racing here as to racing in Europe, right, Like the atmosphere,
the family kind of team thing, the ethos is just
(25:15):
very vasty different, like hugely massively different different worlds to me.
And I've never been exposed to the japan world, so
I would imagine that it is different. I just don't
know how.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
So Bridgetone's actually a global organization with like you said,
Bridgestone roots from Japan and then the Firestone roots from
really close to where I am in Ohio here, so
we have different influences. And we actually have a tech
center in Rome, Italy too, and I've found a lot
of differences working with the different cultures. It's been interesting,
(25:47):
but I think it can also help you grow. One
thing that we've done recently is formed a global motorsports organization,
and that's really interesting because the gentleman leading this up
has bridged on japan experience. He worked on Formula one
back when he was in Bridgetown, Japan, and then he
moved to McLaren F one and was with McLaren F
one for sixteen years and he was leaving technical director
(26:10):
Hiroshi am I. For those motorsports people that borrow Formula one,
I'm sure you're familiar with him. He helped lead his
team at McLaren into a championship, so really interesting. We
talked about some of the some of the things that
could influence in a good way. One of the things
that he has and I love this is just no
ego like going into this, going into a conversation, going
(26:32):
into something and not taking it personally, which again is
kind of a challenge for a lot of people, I think,
but being able to go into something and like how
do we come up with the best solution. How So
it's very interesting because sometimes I talked to Hiroshie and
he seems Japanese and sometimes I talked to Hiroshi and
he seems like he's been living in England for sixteen years.
(26:52):
So I really appreciated working with him. And we're going
to do some pretty cool things with our global motorsports.
But yeah, like you said, cultures are different, and how
we approach things and how we handle things are definitely different.
And I think, you know, we talk about why it's
important to have maybe different people on designing different things.
(27:13):
I think it's good important to have different cultures involved,
and especially if we're doing something in the global global space.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, diversity, I guess I often, like you can tell
my mind, one does like think, Okay, what would I
be like if I had been born me but grew
up in Japan or in America, I would be different
or in South America? Like what would that version of
me look like? And how does your environment influence who
(27:41):
you turn into?
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I think we're getting very philosophical nature versus nurture.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
I often think about you know how I grew up,
and you know the fact that you know my my parents,
like yours were supportive and helped us to get where
we're at. I feel like there were several maybe key
points in my life where I could have made a
different decision and been a completely different output and completely.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Different person doing completely different things.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
I mean, I don't think I was going to be
a balerie to astronaut scientist like I thought it was
when I was well, But there are several different key
moments in your life where you're like, I want to
made this decision with this it should could have altered
the course of what I am now.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Well, I'm very much looking forward to seeing you and
we get to do lots of cool stuff together where
our worlds collide, not just as friends but as colleagues
as well. So I'm very grateful that I can be
authentically me around you, and I can't wait for the
next time to have.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
You on the show, Same girl theme.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Thanks for listening to Throttle Therapy. We'll be back next
week with more updates and more overtakes. We want to
hear from you. Leave us a review, in Apple Podcasts
and tell us what you want to talk about. It
might just be the topic for our next show. Throttle
Therapy is hosted by Katherine Legg, our executive producer Jesse Katz,
and our supervising producer is Grace Fuse. Listen to Throttle
(29:05):
Therapy on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your
free iHeart app and search throttle Therapy with Katherine Leigh
and start listening.
Host
Katherine Legge
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