Former NFL TE and Draft Prospect Expert Logan Paulsen breaks down the paranormal prospects from the Senior Bowl measurement release before talking about stand-outs from day one at practice. Plus, what you can take away from a sluggish start by the QBs. Finally, he talks about what makes this draft class so unique.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome in It Together Draft Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm Logan Paulson here with just a guy, Jason and Jason.
I'm happy to be here, but I'm also kind of
bummed out.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
We were four quarters away, Logan.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Four quarters away from doing something really. I mean, what
we did was really cool. We were what we did
was very special. Sometime I'm gonna remember for the rest
of my life. But man, I really thought we had it.
I really thought we were going to the super Bowl and
we weren't gonna be talking about the Senior Bowl. We'd
just be down in New Orleans living our best life.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
And I logan, God's honest truth. I thought we were
going because I thought we had the best player on
the field. Yeah. Now Eagles fans will say Saquon and
Squon's pretty good. He's pretty good. And you know, I'm
a Penn State fan, so I it's hard not to
like Saquon, even though I don't like the Eagles all
that much.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Especially as researching, so I always think, like when those
guys get drap really high, there's all those expectations. You know,
you're just pulling for a guy, and it was you
don't want him to do it against the commanders.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
But it was great to see the year that he had. Yeah,
and I just love Jaya and Daniels, and I was like,
most important position, I guess the best player at the
most important position in quarterback, we had Jane and I
thought maybe we had it not to be That's okay.
Fred Smoot said it best actually that the Super Bowl
windows officially open. Guys, I like it. You could be
(01:27):
ready for the next several years here. You can be excited.
The Eagles have been in this Super Bowl, when the
Bills have been in it, the Chiefs have been in it.
We've just started and we're right there with them. So
that's something really really really exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Really exciting. And I think with that idea of it
just opening right, all of the pieces that could potentially
be added to this team that.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Starts now down here in Mobile.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Obviously this process starts sway in advance for a lot
of people, but for us, it starts now. For this team,
it starts now. So Adam Peters here today saw Tim Gribble,
the director of College Scouting, like there is a big
Washington commander presence here because they understand that the next
commanders that are going to be the foundation for this
organization are down here in this game, which is always
fun to kind of have a in a weird way,
(02:11):
kind of a peek behind the veil of the guys
that they're looking at, the guys that are talking to.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
And there are a lot of reasons we got to
the NFC Championship game, and no small piece is how
Adam Peters, dan Quinn, the whole front office has evaluated
talent and the rookie class that came in, not just Jaymen.
There are some rookie dogs on this team.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, I mean think about it, like Mike Sandrastill and
all these pieces that are here, Jershon Newton, obviously Jayden,
but you know Brandon Coleman, like he was in this
game last year.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Do you remember we watched him.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
He's in the game, really played guard, played tackle, got
the one on one reps and it's and Ben Sennett
was down here last year.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
There was a lot of pieces that.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Were in this game that are now Washington Commanders. Because again,
if you think about it, one of the big values
of this game is you get to talk to different players.
Like I was down there talking to my agent today
on the field and I saw Tim Gribble running around,
He's meeting all these players, taking time and really just
like that's the that's the secret sauce, right, that's the
secret stuff of building those relationships to the players, getting
to know what kind of person they are. And it's
(03:12):
great to see them so far. You know, just how
excited they are to get that process started.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, absolutely, I love this draft process. Now, Logan, you
know that I feel like I'm really behind because of
this NFC Championship playoff. For we have other responsibilities, right,
like you do the game day live show, you do
to radio broadcast, so you have to be preparing for
those playoff games. And I produce a lot of content.
So like we were focused on getting to the super Bowl.
(03:38):
That's why we haven't had podcasts for a ticket to
your Draft come out earlier. But then we had a
game on Sunday, unfortunately lost on a plane the next morning,
and here we are.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Here we are in Mobile, in Mobile, and you know,
it was so funny. I was like, I don't know
if we should go. It's kind of far that we're
in the stadium today and we're watching the guys clack
helmets a little bit, and I was like it's.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
It's going to be down It's good.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
It's good to be down here. It's going to be
down here. So I'm really excited to kind of introduce
are the people we saw today our draft process, because
I've watched about let's say, eighty or ninety guys so far,
which is still just kind of scratching the surface. Some
of those guys are in there. Some of these guys
were getting to meet for the first time in this
process today, So this is always a fun kind of
(04:23):
first show conversation.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Right yeah, And I'm behind you with that, like I
haven't watched barely.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
You know, we got well, we got we got a
new baby, So congratulations to you. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, I have two under two, so pray for you.
I'm really great for me right now, my will my
wife loves I'm in right now, but uh no, she's fantastic.
But what I'm gonna do moving forward is, like I
my role I think in these podcasts is to be
just a guy like I. I know, I didn't play football.
(04:54):
I don't know the ins and out of football to
the way that you do. You're an expert, and so
my job is to us watch it like how I
think most of us do, and then ask you questions
about what I see doesn't line up with what I see,
because I think the point of this podcast is for
not to be dense. I don't want this to be dense.
(05:15):
I want this podcast to be people going to see
if what their evaluation is right. Like if you're a
fan and it you don't even have to be a
fan of the commander is a fan of any team
and you say, oh, this guy looks good, or that
guy looks good, or I liked him in college. I
wonder how he's doing in this draft process. You can
come here and hopefully hear what you would maybe see
(05:36):
and then present it to a NFL a lum of
ten years and say is this right right, and teach
us how to evaluate prospects. So that being said, we
are here. I'm going to do play that role today. Unfortunately,
because we flew in how we did. We had to
(05:57):
play the NFC Championship game, and then we flew in.
We missed the first part of practice, so we missed
the first team practice.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
We missed yeah, we missed the national the national team practice.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
So we got off the plane and went right to
the stadiums so we got here for the second half,
but not the first. Yeah, not the first half.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And again there's some players in there that you know,
we're really excited to talk about and we've it was
so fun to kind of talk to people in the stands,
talk to agents, talk to people that had seen the
first practice, and get kind of hints and previews of
guys they thought did well. But to me, that's kind
of the more if you're in the offensive line, that's
like the more fun group. And what I mean by
that is you got Josh Connery in there. He's from Oregon,
(06:34):
He's like six four through fifteen. He's probably gonna be
the third or fourth tackle selected, depending on injury. So
like for the Commanders picking at the end of the
first round, if you want an athletic guy, he's in
that first group. So we can't wait to watch him.
You know, Anthony Belton from NC State is this mammoth
of a human being who's got like a little bit
of like dancing bear to him when you see him,
(06:54):
which is always kind of fun. And we're going to
talk about his measurables here because he really he almost
won the day just for measurable but that group's got
the more kind of fun offensive line group. The second practice,
the American practice, is more defensive lines centric in terms of.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Guys that'll probably go. H Obviously there's really.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Good defensive linemen in the national practice. Well, because to me,
that's the strongest group probably in the whole Senior Bowl. Right,
It's the defensive line. So there's if you like defensive line,
this is the draft. This is the Senior Bowl for you.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, And as always, will end the show quickly talking
about quarterbacks. Will do this almost every episode. We're not
in the market for one. We got a pretty dark
good one and Jaden but you never know, but just
relct these guys could go in a later round, which
is a good you never know. And that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I was talking to somebody today and they were talking
about what's the kids name from Ohio State, I forget
his name, the quarterback Will Howard Will Howard about how
they had a second round great on him, you know.
And if that's the case, and that quarterback is taken
early in the second round, that pushes better football players,
non quarterbacks, down to the commanders who are picking at
the atom of the first and the bottom of the second,
(08:01):
So if they kind of if those non i'm gonna
say non quarterback players, if those if those quarterbacks are
drafted earlier, those non quarterbacks get pushed down, and again
that increases the value. So we're going to talk about
them just from that standpoint. And if you know, if
you're a fan from a different team getting in here,
it's a great opportunity to kind of talk through some
of that.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, absolutely, And what if the Giants were in the
market for a quarterback for some reason, then maybe we
put eyes on one and we know what we're getting
into as a divisional d Yeah, so I'm sure that,
like even though we have Jane and Daniels our scouting department,
Adam Peters, they don't not look at quarterback. Of course
they do because not to replace, it's not what you're doing.
(08:41):
But yeah, it's value. What if we play the Giants
week one, now you know what you're getting into, or
at least you know more what you're getting into. So
it's important to know. So we'll always talk about quarterback
at the end. We're not We're never going to just
shy away from them because of Jane and Daniels. The
same with most of our positions. So I want to
start with this though. The first thing that happened for
(09:01):
the Senior Bowl that kicked it off wasn't even practice.
It was that they released the measurables, yes, for the players.
So these are not their school measurables, which are maybe inflated. Right,
maybe maybe I could walk in and they could measure
me at Miama Mater and they say you look like
you're six two, and uh, I'm really five to five.
So or one of our guys here klem like saying
(09:24):
he's a five ten all the time, he's an inch taller.
That why he gets away with that?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
All right?
Speaker 1 (09:28):
It's but so these are the actual measurables, and there's
some guys on here where it goes. How is that
how I need to see this move? Because in my mind,
these measurables don't make sense in one way or another.
And I'm going to call these guys that you picked out,
I'm going to call them Paulson's paranormals. Like there's just
something about these guys that it doesn't seem real. So
(09:51):
who are some of these guys that you saw on them?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, just piggyback on that, Like one of the reasons
I got into the draft, like when I was in
middle school in high school, was to see the freaks,
right to go through my draft guy that i'd buy
with my dad and be like, well, this receiver six five,
two forty. I remember Vinson Jackson looking at his thing
and oh, he's gonna run a four to four h
He ran a four. Like it just it's the It's
the top one percent of the one percent of the
(10:14):
one percent in terms of physical measurables, and the fact
that these guys can move around and play some ball
is always really exciting.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So yeah, as.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Always with measurables, usually the big guys of the guys
that steal the show. So you got Jalen Travis from
Iowa State. He plays left tackle for them. He transferred
in from Princeton. He's six seven and five eighths so
six eight, three hundred and forty one pounds. He's got
forty one and a half inch arms, and there's very
few guys in this class that I think can play
straight left tackle. And he is a little slow footed,
(10:43):
a little heavy, but because of this tremendous size and
link that frame, you say to yourself, I don't know
if he's gonna play left tackle, but he could probably
play right tackle. And if you can't do the outside stuff,
you can probably play a guard at some point.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Can we put that arm length in the perspective? Is
the average arm leane you would say, for an offensive tackle.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So the average armlink, I think is anywhere between probably
thirty three, the high ends thirty five, thirty five and
a half like occasionally, yes, what he's got thirty four,
So he's kind of right in the middle. But to me,
the freaky stuff about him is the body weights, because
he doesn't look like a fat guy like he was
on the field after practice this morning. He just looks
like like a normal like just a person that's been enlarged.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So he's six eight, he's three forty.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yes, it just looks like a big human that could
like just crush you, right, And so when you see
a frame like that, a guy that can absorb power
sink a bowl like that's something you always double click
on because you said this, it's it's the Earth theory, right,
There's only a couple guys on the planet Earth that
are that big and that quick. And so is he
an NFL player right now?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Maybe not?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
You know, it came in from Princeton. That's a smaller
school thing as one year of kind of big time
football at Iowa State.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
But I look at this.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And I say little green developmental. But that frame, man,
that's something that's going to really make you excapt I did.
So that that's one and then there's two other offensive
lineman ones Carson Vinson six and seven eights three fourteen
fit thirty five in one eighth inch arms, so the
longest arms measured at the combine kind of got that
(12:15):
basketball player build. We're going to take a deep dive
in on him in a second. What school was he
He's from Alabama A and M, so very small school,
very raw. His film's crazy because it's like, you know,
looks like it's a high school game someone's filming from
the stands. But he's a really interesting guy because those
long arms, that long athletic build. Then Anthony Belton on
the offensive line six five and three fourth inches, three
(12:35):
hundred and forty five pounds. He's got a ten and
a half inch hand, So, like, take a piece of
paper that's eleven by eight, right, that's about how big
his hand is in terms of the spread it's going
to have. And he has thirty five inch arms, so
thirty four and three force arms. But that's a big
bear of a human.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Guard.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Reminds me a little bit of who's the guard for
the for the Cowboys this year. He plays left guard
from Twulane. Really athletic guy, very raw, physical but like
that's the kind of guy he is. And because of
that size and strength and speed, you're like, man, maybe
this is uh, this guy can play left tackle or
(13:13):
be an upgrade on the offensive line just from a
physicality standpoint. Then you go defensive end and this guy,
I don't think he's gonna jump on anybody's radar, you know,
like he's not like a surprise, but uh, Shamar Stewart
six five and one eighth two hundred and eighty one pounds,
thirty four in a quarter inch arms. He plays defensive end.
And when you see him out there, like you know
Montes Sweat was six six, he's about sixty six. He's
(13:36):
two he's two eighty five, uh, two eighty five ish,
and think about Montes Montes was two sixty. So this
guy is twenty pounds heavier, he's big, he's fulled out.
He looks like a gladiator out there, and just to me,
it's like when you look across the defensive line specifically,
he looks like a he looks like an NFL player,
(13:58):
like he just passes the test immediately in the measurements
support that. And then you get Darren Porter, who to
me was extremely surprising from Iowa State. He's sixty two
and three eights. He's a defensive back, so six two
and three eighths is a defensive back, is huge. He's
one hundred ninety five pounds, so big corner thirty two
inch arms. Also was the I think he was the
(14:19):
one hundred the one hundred meter hurdle championship, one ten
hurdle champion in high school. He ran the three into.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Hurdles excuse me, or the four dwer hurdles excuse me.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
There would go all coming back to me at forty
six seconds, which is almost Olympic qualifying time. So a
big man, very fast, playing for a good program in
Iowa State this last year. So that's one that he's
in the first group. We didn't get to see him,
but just from a measurement, you're like, Oh, I can't
wait to watch this guy run around, and then you
get defensive tackles. And I will say this is the year.
We've covered this for three years now. Defensive tackle this
(14:49):
year is just a bunch of just big, big dudes.
I don't know if they're good at football, but they're
just enormous. Dean Walker from Kentucky is six seven in
a quarter three hundred and forty pounds, ten and three
quarter inch hand, so that's bigger than be Belton excuse me,
from NC State, and he's got thirty four and five
inc ch arms, So huge man. And then Yah y'all
(15:12):
Black from Iowa six ' five and three quarters, three
hundred and thirty seven pounds, ten and a quarter inch hand,
so huge hand, thirty five inch arms, and he has
the biggest wings span of anybody at the Senior Bowl
this year, which is seven feet and one quarter. And
usually that wingspan number is the thing that says like
you're just a big human, and his is the biggest
(15:34):
at the combine. So those are some guys that when
you just look down the sheet, you go watch the
film and you say can you play football? And some
of those are yeses and some of those are nos,
and some of those are yeses and nose today, but
just always fun to see those big freaky dudes here.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, these are guys where you don't have to see
what they look like at all. You see those measurements
and it says next one they play football, and you go,
let me go see, because if we have any sort
of athletic here, we got something pretty special because only
God made only so many of these guys. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Absolutely, and so again, like you know, I go, that's
exactly what it is. Right when the measurements came out, I
go watch. Yeah, yeah, Black I've never even heard of
him before, but I'm gonna go watch this film because
I got to know what this freak of a man
looks like. And it's funny because he does flash some athleticism,
he flashes some power. He's also extremely rabbic. You're like, man,
if I'm a coach, I'm like, dude, let's get this
(16:27):
guy in the building and see what we can do,
because he is a dangerous, dangerous burst of if he's
that large of a human being. So really impressed, it
really impressed with him, and you know, like, I can't wait.
He's in the first group, boss, So I can't wait
to watch him live in practice tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Now to pivot from large men. We were in the stands.
We had a fan come up that was talking to us,
who is a big fan of a center. Yes, he said, Man,
I hear a pop and I look over and it's
always him. Well, it's hard to see him sometimes is
coming from because tell us about him.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Willie Lampkin, North Carolina. He is five to ten five
ten and a half measured at five ten and a
half two hundred and seventy pounds.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
An offensive lineman at five to ten.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
He's placed center. He's listed at center. And so if
you think about it, like Picard for the Baltimore Ravens
is three hundred pounds. He plays full back. This is
a very unique looking body type. He's kind of like
a little little jitterbug out there right. He snaps the
ball and he's got really quick feed. He's got good power,
good pop, good explosion from the hips. But you're just like,
can a person that small play successful center at the
(17:29):
NFL level? I don't know, but he's definitely given a
good go today, Like he showed out in terms of
his quickness ability to overtake some of these big guys.
He got a one on one with Dion Walker today.
That's the six to seven guy from Kentucky who's three
hundred and forty pounds. Kind of stoned him a little bit.
And Dean Walker doesn't play with great pad level. That's
one of the big knocks on him in my opinion.
Not very coordinated with his pastor's plan. But like you
(17:50):
got to win the battle, right, and so talk about
a David and Goliath matchup there that went to the
smaller player and he really did a great job, you know,
the giants layer kind.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Of you can be a smaller player and be successful, right.
No one's knocking on that. It's just paranormal because when
you think of offensive lineman, you don't think of it.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Like we just listed all these dudes who are over
six four, over three point thirty, they got thirty four
in Like this guy is not that he's the antithesis
of that, but.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
It does speak to potentially we haven't ever met him,
we haven't talked with him work ethic athletic ability because
he's overcome a limitation, Yeah, a limitation, and to get
to this point it makes you turn your head. Wait
a minute, a five to ten Lineman, I gotta go
see what this is and h and he did stick
(18:35):
out a little bit today and ironically, like literally, he
would be in the huddle and he was the shortest
guy in the Huddle's shorter than running backs. Yeah, and
it's like, wait, how is this going to work? It worked? Yeah,
it worked today. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
So we're definitely gonna watch him a little bit more
because again, that's kind of a fun story. Lampkin from
North Carolina. As always, U, when you see something like that,
do you see the big stuff? It's funny and when
you see the little stuff it's also interesting too. And
those guys are kind of on the other on both
ends of the spectrum. And it's hard for if you're
really big to make it's hard if you're really small
to make it. So it'll be interesting to watch those storylines.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
That's the fun of the Senior Bowl is seeing these
guys roll in and wondering what's going on these paulse
and pairanormals. I mean last year it was to and
Andre Sweat, Like I just I remember reading in Texas
they listed him as three something crazy three think three
sixty five sixty five And then here at the combine.
He was like, I'm not weighing it. Yeah, leave it
(19:29):
to your imagination. I'm as big as you think I am.
And it's like, how is that why? And he moved
so well, falling so big and obviously had a great
season this past year with the Titans. And then you
have a guy like Johnny Wilson was another one that
stood out last year, a wide receiver from Florida State,
and he was six seven forty clearly the tall got
(19:54):
five and charms like, just a huge, huge wide receiver.
Moved pretty well and I believe he's on the Eagles,
had a decent year. Yeah. Right. So that's what's fun
to me about the Senior Bowl is seeing all the
different sizes from all around the country. And but they're
all guys at at the top of where they were, right,
(20:16):
That's why they're here. They were they reached the pinnacle
of their school and some of them in their conference,
and that's why they're here. Let's see how they all
stack up together. It's fun, man, Yeah, it's a lot
of fun.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
And again, like I said, that's one of the reasons
you come is for those freaky guys, but you also
come for really good football players and finding those diamonds
in the rough, which is always a good time.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
So let's talk about the actual football that we saw
played today in the drills, the one on ones, which
are the best, the indies and the team drills. Logan,
I want you to tell me a couple of guys
that stood out in the practice that we saw today.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, so I'm gonna go back to Carson Vincent from
Alabama and m the tackle. You know, the six six,
he's three fourteen, he's got thirty five in a quarter
inch arms And immediately you look at him, and I
went and watched this film, you're like me, and he's
really raw, but he's got a good finisher's mentality. He's aggressive,
and you're like, well, how's he going to do versus
larger school prospects. And like I said, there's a lot
(21:09):
of really really good defensive lineman here, specifically on the edge,
guys that really just jumped out to you in terms
of size. You know, you got Princely, a minimalia from
Old miss who's kind of the maybe the fourth or
fifth edg rusher in.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
The class, but a pass rush specialist.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
We already talked about Samar Stewart from Texas A and M.
Jared Ivy from Old Miss. Right, just really kind of
physically imposing guys that played big time football Old Miss
and m all these different spots. So this guy gets
in there, like what's going on? And he's in this
tackle group with a bunch of guys who played a
lot of football, a lot of LSU guys, and he,
to me, showed exactly what he needed to show today.
(21:47):
And so his ability to move his feet mirror really
well use his length I thought was outstanding. And again
there's guys in this group like Emery Jones, a guy
from LSU I thought probably more of a guard, but
let him.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Fail at tackle.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
He plays tackle that you see some of his the
slow foot inness, the physical limitations. He's big, he's strong,
but he can't quite quite keep up with some.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Of those speed rushers. Right.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Logan Brown from Kansas another guy that you're like, oh man,
he measured really well thirty four and a half inch arms,
but again looked a little bit out of depth with
some of these better rushers. And so for me, what's
his name? Carson Vincent had the last call out today.
Jason the last call out of the day versus to me,
who's probably a guy who's probably the fourth or fifth
(22:30):
ed rusher in the class, A guy that I think
the commanders are probably going to take a really hard
look at. In Stewart. You know, he's that six '
five two to eighty guy and.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Edge from Texas A and H just looks like a gladiator.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Right, So you get out there, you're like, man, small
school guy versus one of the top prospects in this class,
Like if he's probably i'd say twenty five to forty
range in the draft, so a really good football player.
And he tried to hit him on an inside move.
Vincent did a great job mirroring using his length, keeping
him flat, and I was like, this dude, if he
can figure it out, he's got the athletic profile, he's
(23:04):
got the size profile. He can it looks like just
from watching them walk around that he can add probably
fifteen pounds. So he playing at three twenty five, three thirty,
And all of a sudden, you say, man, like, if
there's a guy to take a shot on, a guy
maybe in the third round, a guy maybe late second
you say, this guy could develop into a starting caliber
player just based on athletic traits.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
And again it's the first day.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
There's a lot of days left to go, but that
got me a little excited. They did a run blocking
period today where again you see kind of his lack
of elite power and strength that some of these other
guys have, Like he's just he's not giving up a loss,
but getting sewed a little bit. But that was really
exciting for me to see today.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
And that's not to say though that the edge Schmart
Stewart from Texas AMM had a bad day. He had
a good day because he did it. He had a
really good day. Yeah, he had a great day.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
You see his again, just his like you watch him
go through the warm up lines and you're like, who
is that? And I thought it was a different player
for the majority of the thing, a much smaller player
and you're like, man, that dude's extremely athletic. He's he's
And then you're like, oh, that's Stuart. And Stuart weighs
two hundred and eighty pounds. And for him to be
moving that way in the run drills, like the way
(24:09):
he takes on tackles, the way he can use his length,
the way he sets edges his power on some of
the bull rushes, like I mentioned, you know, Logan the
tackle excuse me from Kansas, big guy six six three
twenty thirty four and a half in charms, and he
kind of made him look like they didn't belong on
the same field.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
So in terms of a guy that just you know, one.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Of them in Vincent was exceeding expectations that kind of
show and he could play with the big dogs at
Stay one. Got two more days to kind of see
how that progresses. But Stuart Man, like, you're kind of saying,
let's keep an eye on this guy because if he
keeps playing this way, he's gonna bump some of these
other rushers and be kind of that mid from mid
to late first round guy I said, twenty five to forty.
(24:50):
Maybe he bumps up and he's fifteen to thirty five
and he's you know, definitively a first round pick, which
would be again based on what we saw today, not
outside the ram of possibility.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, and just from my jaguyesrom what I saw today,
there were two plays that stood out to me. When
they were running the team drills and they started actually
going at full speed, they weren't just kind of walking through.
He had one play where he did a nice bull
rush and then a quick grab and pull and swim
move over. It would have been a sack. He obviously
(25:21):
let up. They don't hit the quarterbacks here. It would
have been a real quick, easy sack. And another one
where he shed a block double team actually very quickly
to get the runner at the line of scrimmage. Very
nice play, and again he's more of that.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
In my mind, I'm always kind of thinking of guys
that fit what the Washington commanders want to do. So
you want guys that have some position flexibility. Right, he
can play as a true hand in the dirt three
four defensive end. He can play a six, he can
play a nine. You can also play in a pass
rushing situation a three technique over the guard. And you
saw that in his film at Texas A and M.
(25:55):
And so when you see a guy who, you know,
what does Dan Quinn like to say, you're going to
know how get down? Like he plays with that edge
and that physicality, like watching him versus Missouri at Texas
A and M. Watching him sprint out of the stack
on a screen at two hundred and eighty two and
eighty five pounds and running down a receiver just like
I don't this guy's sack production in college was not
(26:16):
great to get one sack last year or zero hit
zero sacks last year, had a bunch of pressures with
zero sacks. You know, Like, this guy plays the game
the right way with the with the physical traits in
the upside. So he's a guy that we're definitely gonna
keep an eye on because again, where the commanders are picking,
it's kind of that bottom of the thing there. So
if he does kind of for whatever reason, slip down
that way, that's a really interesting football player to keep
(26:37):
an eye on.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, give me one more player that stood out to you,
Just one more one more.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
So. One of the running backs today really stuck out
to me. He was interesting because I didn't really know
about him obviously, And that's one of the reasons you
come to the senior ball. It's Bernard Smith from SMU,
and they do a lot of run one on ones
and they're very unfair to the linebackers. A ton of space,
a ton of grass. But what you're watching there is
just like general movement skills, like the rhythm of the route.
(27:06):
So running backs tend to be like a little bit
muscle bound. They're a little tight in the upper back,
they're tight in the hamstrings. As they're running people over.
They have to be physical, they have to kind of
have this body armor on. And so when you see
a guy like Bishard Smith who has a little bit
of receiver to his movement skills, right, he's loose in
the upper back, he can stick his foot in the ground.
He can give you a nice like the old crossover drill,
(27:29):
the Okie Doe kind of inside outside move and break
across the leverage. Like those things are things you say, man,
if you're an offensive coordinator on third down passing game,
how to utilize him. And then when you watch the
team stuff, he's got a nice burst, a nice kind
of snakelike feel through the hole. So for a guy
that was not on my radar at all coming into this,
(27:50):
like to see him move around, to see him win
all his pass rushing one on ones or his pass
his route running one on ones, I was like, man,
he's a guy that I definitely got to go watch
and maybe wasn't utilized correctly at SMU because he seems
like he's got this natural route running ability. And that
was really cool to see. And then R. J. Harvey,
who's obviously the best running back kind of the biggest
(28:11):
name in the second group of runners here at the
Senior Bowl, also had a great day. But whatever reason,
Bashard Smith just kind of stuck out a little bit more,
a little bit quicker, a little bit more dexterous catch
in the football. So he's someone I'm definitely gonna watch
more film up tonight.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, absolutely, moving on just very quickly. One of the
things that I think we were disappointed about with the
Senior Bowl with some guys that didn't show up. Yes,
and it's a prerogative to show up, like we're disappointed
as fans because we want to see him play. And
the two biggest ones that didn't show up. The first
one the wide receiver from TCU. Oh my gosh, So
ViOn Williams. He was.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
So he's a guy man that you talk about, explosive
traits and a playmaker. He played quarterback in high school.
He was at TCU. He's six three and a half
six four, two hundred thirty pounds. He played their wildcat quarterback.
He played receiver. He got Jets sweeps, he made contested catches,
he's got great explosiveness and suddenness, and so with a
(29:10):
guy like that, you're like, how does he actually play
the receiver position right? How does he actually do it?
So in a setting like this, you're like, oh my gosh,
I can't wait to see what this size, strength, speed
looks like with a player like that. But unfortunately had
injury and wasn't able to make it out. So that's
always that's always tough because the players got to do
what's right for them, you know. And so selfishly we
(29:31):
wanted to come here because I want to see him
in person. I've seen the tape. I'm excited about the tape.
I want to see what he looks like in person.
But he's got to make that decision. So hopefully he's
the guy we see at the combine. And another guy
that I forgot to mention we were doing this rundown
was Bo Scarborough. He was supposed to come is not here.
And again that's one where I wonder if as the
you know, the playoff process went on, started talking to
(29:53):
his agent, they started talking to teams. He had a
much higher grade on him than they thought originally. Again,
like he was a guy that when I first started
doing this, which is about four weeks ago, had like
a fourth or fifth round grade. And then as you
start talking to teams, as you start listening to other
draft content, as you start you know, like kind of
getting the buzz from guys who are insiders, you know,
(30:16):
mel Kiper all these different guys, it's like, oh, this
guy might be a second round pick. And so that
was a little bit of a shift, and I wonder
if that was one of the reasons why he decided
not to come.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah, it's it's interesting. He'll be at the Combine, you
would think for sure. I hope so, so we'll get
to see him there. It's different, right because it's non contact.
But that's why I love the Senior Bowl. Man. I
love the contact part of it much fun.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
It's football, and I think that's the thing that you know,
for example, like would we know that Carson Vincent can
play football at the Combine? No, but he comes here
to the Senior Bowl. He plays better competition. Remember Alabama
and m small school, right, very small school. They're not
playing a lot of D one opponents, right, because he
had they have one game this year against Auburn, Right,
and he looks a little bit out of his depth
(31:00):
and he comes here and Jason and I don't want
to harp too much on this guy because other guys
had great days. You know, the kid from Sacramento State
had a fantastic day to day. And just like in
terms of guys that are making the most of their opportunity,
Jackson Slater played guard, played center and just had like
that dog to him. But Vincent had the same thing.
He has a down block on power in the team period.
And you know most guys they kind of fit up
(31:21):
and they get off of it, and he's like he's
like you know, you could tell he's like jacked ub
and like, yeah, let's go run behind me, Let's do it.
And that's kind of silly stuff. But talked about a guyho's.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Passionate about football and passionate about being he sounds like
a commander. Sounds like a commander. No, but there's something
to that, right. Like one of the things if you
look back on last year's draft for the Commanders that
was so successful, what were those guys. They were all leaders,
They were all captains, and you have to be vocal
leaders to be that way too. They play with a
passion and they don't hide it. Yeah, that doesn't mean
you have to be loud, right to be liked by
(31:53):
an organization. But there's something about the competitiveness, right. I
think the word is dog ass competitor.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
They're just doll gas competitors, right, And there's something to
that that you see when you have competitive football being played.
You don't get that at the combine because it's routes
on air, right, it's just running drills. There's an importance
to that. But there's this is it's football, right, and
it is different. And speaking of seeing people playing football
(32:21):
and not routes on airs, let's quickly go through the quarterbacks.
The three big ones that we saw was Jackson Dart
from Ole, Miss, Riley Leonard from Notre Dame it was
just in the championship game, and then Jlen Milroe Alabama.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, and so you're like the quarterback expert a little bit.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
That's only because it was the first thing I scouted.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, and I haven't done it so to be fair,
I did.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
It because I wanted to get them out of the way. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Right, So I'll say this about Jalen Millro today, I
think you see a lot of this stuff the same
stuff you saw from in Alabama. You see a tremendous athlete.
You see a guy that has really just a nice
arm velocity and ball velocity. It's got a little bit
of a wobble to it, which was surprising to see
in person. I talked to someone today who said it's
because he's got small hands. And he does have small hands.
(33:08):
They're like eight and three quarters, but technically smaller than
like can he Pickett at this point?
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Right? Who measured it nine? Yeah, if you listen to
other draft podcasts, you'll find out who this is. I
guarantee you he's going to bring it up.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I was listening to something on the way over here
and he already brought it up. So but he could.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I'll let you let you find that take on your own.
But that is a thing, right, if you got a
smaller hand, you got a hold farther back on the ball,
and he does rip it. It's fast, it's good release,
but it might be affecting his accuracy. Is he was
a little delayed. And I hate when people say on
the first day that a quarterback looked delayed. It's the
first day running routes with people. You don't know. With protections,
(33:42):
you don't know.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
With offense, you don't know, brand new.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
And so like when people say he looked a little sluggish,
I'm like, okay, Like you know who also looks sluggish
the first day of the Seer Bowl bo Nix.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
N Yeah, he did not look great the first day last.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Year and he figured it out. So like, to me,
for quarterbacks, a lot of this stuff that they're evaluating,
teams are evaluating is off the field. It's kind of
how you handle adversity. It's how you handle the meetings
and the interactions with the teams. And we talked about
the commanders building relationships with players. That's to me a
big part of the quarterback stuff. Like so, for example,
shad Or Sanders was at the Shrine Bowl and multiple
(34:18):
teams asked him not to participate. He just was there
for the interviews, and I thought he did that of
his own volition. But the rumor is that the Giants like,
don't do it. The Cleveland Brown's like, don't do We'll
just interview you and have our kind of savior throwing
for the combiner, the individual workout, whichever you prefer. And
so again, obviously if a guy throws here, great, but
if they don't throw it seems like NFL teams have
(34:40):
different they're looking for different things from quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah. One of the things with Milrow is that, Yeah,
he like the sluggish thing, right. Yeah, you give the
guy a break for all the reasons he said at.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
The same time at Alabama in the film.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
At Alabama, tough ball security not super accurate. Me canics
weren't always there, led the bad decision making bad throws percent. Well,
maybe some of that is sneaking in here. How much
of it we don't know?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
And again that's something that you got. I think I
think you're immediately biased to it because you saw.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
That in com It feels like confirmation bias.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
But it's I'm also going to give the guy three
days at least to kind of figure it out. Jackson
Dart had a couple miss snaps today. You know, he's
he's been in the gun his entire college career. So
how much of that plays into it? Again, people are
going to say he looked a little off, had a
couple incompletions. I was really impressed that the ball comes
out of his hand. Personally, Yeah, really layers that thing
(35:36):
in can really zip it.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I think he's got great touch too. He can zip it,
but I think there are times when he knows just
how to layer it.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
He's probably of the guys that I saw today, and
again I haven't really watched him on film yet. The
guys that I saw today that throws the most NFL
ish if that makes sense. The touch, the ball, velocity
and kind of touch everywhere in the field. Maybe not
the biggest thrower, but can hit that, you know, twenty yard,
comeback and do all that stuff. And again, timing was
(36:04):
a little bit weird on some of the stuff today,
and that's going to get better as it goes. Like
I remember Pennis for example too, the ball came out
great the first day, but still working through some stuff.
And we haven't really talked about this, but this receiver
class at the Combine this year or at the Senior
Bowl this year not very different than what it was
last year. Last year there was I want to say,
(36:26):
there was five dudes taken in the first two rounds
if I remember correctly, and this year maybe two maybe one.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Let's talk about this real quick, not just with the receivers,
but let's talk about the draft classes as a whole. Yeah,
because every draft is different. Right. That's something that I've
certainly learned since working here is that there's you can't
I think it's unfair to compare draft classes because it's
the one that's ahead of you. They all have different personalities,
(36:55):
so like it's I don't know, it's like comparing this
guy to his cousin and like, well he doesn't look
exactly say well, yeah, yeah, different parents, there's some similarity.
But so there are definitely some players here that are
going to be great NFL players. The amount may not
be there because of just there's just something about the
(37:17):
raw talent that was in last year that you just
don't see here.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Well, definitely the raw talent in the Senior Bowl last year, right, Like.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
There was Lattu.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Latu was here, right, who was like yeah was the
was the second rusher taken? And then you've got you know,
Talisi fu Wonga, You've got you know, Frasier was here,
you got Powers, Ja Jackson, Powers Johnson. All those guys
were damn near first round picks.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Right like they were. And so Mitchell was out of.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Here, Quinjon Mitchell, Lad McConkie was here right, just the Pennix,
bon Nickx, like Joe Milton was here, like talk about
freaky talent. Not quite the same in this Senior Bowl. Now,
I think this is where scouting, coaching, all these things
come together because there are future Hall of famers that
are probably playing in this game. We can't really see
(38:08):
them because you don't see the wow yet, right, But
there someone is in here, and whether it's the work ethic,
the mental composition, the physical traits, the interviews that we're
not getting access to, that's in there. And so I
think that's the fun part about this too, is saying, hey,
one of these guys, a couple of these guys are
going to hit. Can we distill it down in a
(38:29):
draft class that maybe he doesn't. And I'll say this,
I think there's good depth in it. The top end
isn't quite what the top end was last year.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I'll say that, Yeah, I would agree completely with that.
Like if you look at just yeah, let's let's look
at it the last year's draft, the top players at
their positions, Like all those guys hit like that is
so rare.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Joe Alt, Jayden Daniels, Caleb Williams a lot too, Jared Verse.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Like elite neighbors, Thomas Jr. Marvin Harrison, rock Powers breaking records.
So yeah, it's not that may not happen this year
because that was such a uniqu year. But that doesn't
mean that this is a quote unquote down year. Yeah,
it's just different. Yeah, it's different.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Right, It's like the people that are going to hit
are going to be different. And we just talked about,
you know, like we're excited. Like a guy that again
didn't practice today, which was such a bummer because I
think he's got some tremendous ability, but a mad medboo
right from Missouri. He plays guard tackle. He's six four
three thirty five, long arms thirty four and a three
(39:37):
quarters like long guy for a tackle, like so a
little undersized but lightning quick. Right, So there's that guy
where you're saying, hey, if you get him in a
Kyle Shanahan offense and he sits behind Trent Williams for
a year, is he the next kind of like really
explosive kind of playmaking tackle and he plays guard tackle?
Now you know what I'm saying. So finding homes those guys.
Josh Simmons, the tackle from Ohio State.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
He looks so good on film, he's prob film.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
You've played six games and he's got a ptell injury.
But like, there are guys here that are crazy talented.
I think that's the other thing Melf Kaiper said, which
I think is a great point, is that a lot
of the top guys in this class, like Will Johnson,
like the number two corner after a Hunter in this
class from Michigan, is banged up. You've played two games
this year, right, We just talked about Josh Simmons, who
(40:21):
again probably the number two to one tackle in this class,
banged up, right, and you go down the list, You're like, huh, right.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Like where is where's all? Where? Where do all these
pieces fall? They're all hurt.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
A lot of them were hurt this year, and so
there's a little bit of a question about their ability
to translate to the next level. But that doesn't mean
they're not gonna be good pros.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Absolutely, Yeah, I agree. I think I think this is
where we should end today. Yeah, we'll be out at
practice tomorrow. We'll catch all of practice tomorrow, both practices.
Promis this time, we promise we're going to have interviews
coming for you. I'm going to make sure that we
we get some good ones on here. We'll probably have
somebody from pretty popular podcast here Draft Podcasts that you
(41:01):
hear someone we may have been referencing today. Yeah. I've
just been reaching out, been getting a lot of positive
feedback on guests, and we may have a really special
one this week too. Oh yeah, really special, big get
for not just Commanders fans, but for anybody who's a
fan of how the Commanders have turned things around this year.
(41:21):
Might have them on this week. That'd be pretty cool. Yeah,
so we're gonna come after every single Senior Bowl practice,
we'll do a podcast and come to you live from Mobile, Alabama,
and then we're off to the Combine. I think would
be next, Well be next, Yeah, let's finish this one
up first then. Yeah, I'm we just got it. Just
feels like everything's moving so fast, like we were just
(41:43):
playing Philly just a couple of days ago, championship seventy
two hours ago. Yeah, that's well man, Jane and Daniels.
He's good at football. What a good evol. I said
that to someone.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
I said that to someone today, They're like, yeah, you
really got about that one?
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Iota that? Yeah, good Evail?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
All right, Yeah, man, Please make sure you check us
out tomorrow and we love talking draft. If you've got questions, comments,
please leave them in there for us. It always helps
us out. Like the subscribe we have to get your podcast,
and if you like this Commander's content, you can check
us out on the Commander's YouTube page. We got a
bunch of shows on there as well. But yeah, we'll
see you tomorrow and that's gonna do it for today's show.
Welcome in It Together Draft Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm Logan Paulson here with just a guy, Jason and Jason.
I'm happy to be here, but I'm also kind of
bummed out.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
We were four quarters away, Logan.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Four quarters away from doing something really. I mean, what
we did was really cool. We were what we did
was very special. Sometime I'm gonna remember for the rest
of my life. But man, I really thought we had it.
I really thought we were going to the super Bowl and
we weren't gonna be talking about the Senior Bowl. We'd
just be down in New Orleans living our best life.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
And I logan, God's honest truth. I thought we were
going because I thought we had the best player on
the field. Yeah. Now Eagles fans will say Saquon and
Squon's pretty good. He's pretty good. And you know, I'm
a Penn State fan, so I it's hard not to
like Saquon, even though I don't like the Eagles all
that much.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Especially as researching, so I always think, like when those
guys get drap really high, there's all those expectations. You know,
you're just pulling for a guy, and it was you
don't want him to do it against the commanders.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
But it was great to see the year that he had. Yeah,
and I just love Jaya and Daniels, and I was like,
most important position, I guess the best player at the
most important position in quarterback, we had Jane and I
thought maybe we had it not to be That's okay.
Fred Smoot said it best actually that the Super Bowl
windows officially open. Guys, I like it. You could be
(01:27):
ready for the next several years here. You can be excited.
The Eagles have been in this Super Bowl, when the
Bills have been in it, the Chiefs have been in it.
We've just started and we're right there with them. So
that's something really really really exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Really exciting. And I think with that idea of it
just opening right, all of the pieces that could potentially
be added to this team that.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Starts now down here in Mobile.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Obviously this process starts sway in advance for a lot
of people, but for us, it starts now. For this team,
it starts now. So Adam Peters here today saw Tim Gribble,
the director of College Scouting, like there is a big
Washington commander presence here because they understand that the next
commanders that are going to be the foundation for this
organization are down here in this game, which is always
fun to kind of have a in a weird way,
(02:11):
kind of a peek behind the veil of the guys
that they're looking at, the guys that are talking to.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
And there are a lot of reasons we got to
the NFC Championship game, and no small piece is how
Adam Peters, dan Quinn, the whole front office has evaluated
talent and the rookie class that came in, not just Jaymen.
There are some rookie dogs on this team.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, I mean think about it, like Mike Sandrastill and
all these pieces that are here, Jershon Newton, obviously Jayden,
but you know Brandon Coleman, like he was in this
game last year.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Do you remember we watched him.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
He's in the game, really played guard, played tackle, got
the one on one reps and it's and Ben Sennett
was down here last year.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
There was a lot of pieces that.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Were in this game that are now Washington Commanders. Because again,
if you think about it, one of the big values
of this game is you get to talk to different players.
Like I was down there talking to my agent today
on the field and I saw Tim Gribble running around,
He's meeting all these players, taking time and really just
like that's the that's the secret sauce, right, that's the
secret stuff of building those relationships to the players, getting
to know what kind of person they are. And it's
(03:12):
great to see them so far. You know, just how
excited they are to get that process started.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, absolutely, I love this draft process. Now, Logan, you
know that I feel like I'm really behind because of
this NFC Championship playoff. For we have other responsibilities, right,
like you do the game day live show, you do
to radio broadcast, so you have to be preparing for
those playoff games. And I produce a lot of content.
So like we were focused on getting to the super Bowl.
(03:38):
That's why we haven't had podcasts for a ticket to
your Draft come out earlier. But then we had a
game on Sunday, unfortunately lost on a plane the next morning,
and here we are.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Here we are in Mobile, in Mobile, and you know,
it was so funny. I was like, I don't know
if we should go. It's kind of far that we're
in the stadium today and we're watching the guys clack
helmets a little bit, and I was like it's.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
It's going to be down It's good.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
It's good to be down here. It's going to be
down here. So I'm really excited to kind of introduce
are the people we saw today our draft process, because
I've watched about let's say, eighty or ninety guys so far,
which is still just kind of scratching the surface. Some
of those guys are in there. Some of these guys
were getting to meet for the first time in this
process today, So this is always a fun kind of
(04:23):
first show conversation.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Right yeah, And I'm behind you with that, like I
haven't watched barely.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
You know, we got well, we got we got a
new baby, So congratulations to you. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, I have two under two, so pray for you.
I'm really great for me right now, my will my
wife loves I'm in right now, but uh no, she's fantastic.
But what I'm gonna do moving forward is, like I
my role I think in these podcasts is to be
just a guy like I. I know, I didn't play football.
(04:54):
I don't know the ins and out of football to
the way that you do. You're an expert, and so
my job is to us watch it like how I
think most of us do, and then ask you questions
about what I see doesn't line up with what I see,
because I think the point of this podcast is for
not to be dense. I don't want this to be dense.
(05:15):
I want this podcast to be people going to see
if what their evaluation is right. Like if you're a
fan and it you don't even have to be a
fan of the commander is a fan of any team
and you say, oh, this guy looks good, or that
guy looks good, or I liked him in college. I
wonder how he's doing in this draft process. You can
come here and hopefully hear what you would maybe see
(05:36):
and then present it to a NFL a lum of
ten years and say is this right right, and teach
us how to evaluate prospects. So that being said, we
are here. I'm going to do play that role today. Unfortunately,
because we flew in how we did. We had to
(05:57):
play the NFC Championship game, and then we flew in.
We missed the first part of practice, so we missed
the first team practice.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
We missed yeah, we missed the national the national team practice.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
So we got off the plane and went right to
the stadiums so we got here for the second half,
but not the first. Yeah, not the first half.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And again there's some players in there that you know,
we're really excited to talk about and we've it was
so fun to kind of talk to people in the stands,
talk to agents, talk to people that had seen the
first practice, and get kind of hints and previews of
guys they thought did well. But to me, that's kind
of the more if you're in the offensive line, that's
like the more fun group. And what I mean by
that is you got Josh Connery in there. He's from Oregon,
(06:34):
He's like six four through fifteen. He's probably gonna be
the third or fourth tackle selected, depending on injury. So
like for the Commanders picking at the end of the
first round, if you want an athletic guy, he's in
that first group. So we can't wait to watch him.
You know, Anthony Belton from NC State is this mammoth
of a human being who's got like a little bit
of like dancing bear to him when you see him,
(06:54):
which is always kind of fun. And we're going to
talk about his measurables here because he really he almost
won the day just for measurable but that group's got
the more kind of fun offensive line group. The second practice,
the American practice, is more defensive lines centric in terms of.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Guys that'll probably go. H Obviously there's really.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Good defensive linemen in the national practice. Well, because to me,
that's the strongest group probably in the whole Senior Bowl. Right,
It's the defensive line. So there's if you like defensive line,
this is the draft. This is the Senior Bowl for you.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, And as always, will end the show quickly talking
about quarterbacks. Will do this almost every episode. We're not
in the market for one. We got a pretty dark
good one and Jaden but you never know, but just
relct these guys could go in a later round, which
is a good you never know. And that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I was talking to somebody today and they were talking
about what's the kids name from Ohio State, I forget
his name, the quarterback Will Howard Will Howard about how
they had a second round great on him, you know.
And if that's the case, and that quarterback is taken
early in the second round, that pushes better football players,
non quarterbacks, down to the commanders who are picking at
the atom of the first and the bottom of the second,
(08:01):
So if they kind of if those non i'm gonna
say non quarterback players, if those if those quarterbacks are
drafted earlier, those non quarterbacks get pushed down, and again
that increases the value. So we're going to talk about
them just from that standpoint. And if you know, if
you're a fan from a different team getting in here,
it's a great opportunity to kind of talk through some
of that.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, absolutely, And what if the Giants were in the
market for a quarterback for some reason, then maybe we
put eyes on one and we know what we're getting
into as a divisional d Yeah, so I'm sure that,
like even though we have Jane and Daniels our scouting department,
Adam Peters, they don't not look at quarterback. Of course
they do because not to replace, it's not what you're doing.
(08:41):
But yeah, it's value. What if we play the Giants
week one, now you know what you're getting into, or
at least you know more what you're getting into. So
it's important to know. So we'll always talk about quarterback
at the end. We're not We're never going to just
shy away from them because of Jane and Daniels. The
same with most of our positions. So I want to
start with this though. The first thing that happened for
(09:01):
the Senior Bowl that kicked it off wasn't even practice.
It was that they released the measurables, yes, for the players.
So these are not their school measurables, which are maybe inflated. Right,
maybe maybe I could walk in and they could measure
me at Miama Mater and they say you look like
you're six two, and uh, I'm really five to five.
So or one of our guys here klem like saying
(09:24):
he's a five ten all the time, he's an inch taller.
That why he gets away with that?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
All right?
Speaker 1 (09:28):
It's but so these are the actual measurables, and there's
some guys on here where it goes. How is that
how I need to see this move? Because in my mind,
these measurables don't make sense in one way or another.
And I'm going to call these guys that you picked out,
I'm going to call them Paulson's paranormals. Like there's just
something about these guys that it doesn't seem real. So
(09:51):
who are some of these guys that you saw on them?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, just piggyback on that, Like one of the reasons
I got into the draft, like when I was in
middle school in high school, was to see the freaks,
right to go through my draft guy that i'd buy
with my dad and be like, well, this receiver six five,
two forty. I remember Vinson Jackson looking at his thing
and oh, he's gonna run a four to four h
He ran a four. Like it just it's the It's
the top one percent of the one percent of the
(10:14):
one percent in terms of physical measurables, and the fact
that these guys can move around and play some ball
is always really exciting.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So yeah, as.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Always with measurables, usually the big guys of the guys
that steal the show. So you got Jalen Travis from
Iowa State. He plays left tackle for them. He transferred
in from Princeton. He's six seven and five eighths so
six eight, three hundred and forty one pounds. He's got
forty one and a half inch arms, and there's very
few guys in this class that I think can play
straight left tackle. And he is a little slow footed,
(10:43):
a little heavy, but because of this tremendous size and
link that frame, you say to yourself, I don't know
if he's gonna play left tackle, but he could probably
play right tackle. And if you can't do the outside stuff,
you can probably play a guard at some point.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Can we put that arm length in the perspective? Is
the average arm leane you would say, for an offensive tackle.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So the average armlink, I think is anywhere between probably
thirty three, the high ends thirty five, thirty five and
a half like occasionally, yes, what he's got thirty four,
So he's kind of right in the middle. But to me,
the freaky stuff about him is the body weights, because
he doesn't look like a fat guy like he was
on the field after practice this morning. He just looks
like like a normal like just a person that's been enlarged.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So he's six eight, he's three forty.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yes, it just looks like a big human that could
like just crush you, right, And so when you see
a frame like that, a guy that can absorb power
sink a bowl like that's something you always double click
on because you said this, it's it's the Earth theory, right,
There's only a couple guys on the planet Earth that
are that big and that quick. And so is he
an NFL player right now?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Maybe not?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
You know, it came in from Princeton. That's a smaller
school thing as one year of kind of big time
football at Iowa State.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
But I look at this.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And I say little green developmental. But that frame, man,
that's something that's going to really make you excapt I did.
So that that's one and then there's two other offensive
lineman ones Carson Vinson six and seven eights three fourteen
fit thirty five in one eighth inch arms, so the
longest arms measured at the combine kind of got that
(12:15):
basketball player build. We're going to take a deep dive
in on him in a second. What school was he
He's from Alabama A and M, so very small school,
very raw. His film's crazy because it's like, you know,
looks like it's a high school game someone's filming from
the stands. But he's a really interesting guy because those
long arms, that long athletic build. Then Anthony Belton on
the offensive line six five and three fourth inches, three
(12:35):
hundred and forty five pounds. He's got a ten and
a half inch hand, So, like, take a piece of
paper that's eleven by eight, right, that's about how big
his hand is in terms of the spread it's going
to have. And he has thirty five inch arms, so
thirty four and three force arms. But that's a big
bear of a human.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Guard.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Reminds me a little bit of who's the guard for
the for the Cowboys this year. He plays left guard
from Twulane. Really athletic guy, very raw, physical but like
that's the kind of guy he is. And because of
that size and strength and speed, you're like, man, maybe
this is uh, this guy can play left tackle or
(13:13):
be an upgrade on the offensive line just from a
physicality standpoint. Then you go defensive end and this guy,
I don't think he's gonna jump on anybody's radar, you know,
like he's not like a surprise, but uh, Shamar Stewart
six five and one eighth two hundred and eighty one pounds,
thirty four in a quarter inch arms. He plays defensive end.
And when you see him out there, like you know
Montes Sweat was six six, he's about sixty six. He's
(13:36):
two he's two eighty five, uh, two eighty five ish,
and think about Montes Montes was two sixty. So this
guy is twenty pounds heavier, he's big, he's fulled out.
He looks like a gladiator out there, and just to me,
it's like when you look across the defensive line specifically,
he looks like a he looks like an NFL player,
(13:58):
like he just passes the test immediately in the measurements
support that. And then you get Darren Porter, who to
me was extremely surprising from Iowa State. He's sixty two
and three eights. He's a defensive back, so six two
and three eighths is a defensive back, is huge. He's
one hundred ninety five pounds, so big corner thirty two
inch arms. Also was the I think he was the
(14:19):
one hundred the one hundred meter hurdle championship, one ten
hurdle champion in high school. He ran the three into.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Hurdles excuse me, or the four dwer hurdles excuse me.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
There would go all coming back to me at forty
six seconds, which is almost Olympic qualifying time. So a
big man, very fast, playing for a good program in
Iowa State this last year. So that's one that he's
in the first group. We didn't get to see him,
but just from a measurement, you're like, Oh, I can't
wait to watch this guy run around, and then you
get defensive tackles. And I will say this is the year.
We've covered this for three years now. Defensive tackle this
(14:49):
year is just a bunch of just big, big dudes.
I don't know if they're good at football, but they're
just enormous. Dean Walker from Kentucky is six seven in
a quarter three hundred and forty pounds, ten and three
quarter inch hand, so that's bigger than be Belton excuse me,
from NC State, and he's got thirty four and five
inc ch arms, So huge man. And then Yah y'all
(15:12):
Black from Iowa six ' five and three quarters, three
hundred and thirty seven pounds, ten and a quarter inch hand,
so huge hand, thirty five inch arms, and he has
the biggest wings span of anybody at the Senior Bowl
this year, which is seven feet and one quarter. And
usually that wingspan number is the thing that says like
you're just a big human, and his is the biggest
(15:34):
at the combine. So those are some guys that when
you just look down the sheet, you go watch the
film and you say can you play football? And some
of those are yeses and some of those are nos,
and some of those are yeses and nose today, but
just always fun to see those big freaky dudes here.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, these are guys where you don't have to see
what they look like at all. You see those measurements
and it says next one they play football, and you go,
let me go see, because if we have any sort
of athletic here, we got something pretty special because only
God made only so many of these guys. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Absolutely, and so again, like you know, I go, that's
exactly what it is. Right when the measurements came out, I
go watch. Yeah, yeah, Black I've never even heard of
him before, but I'm gonna go watch this film because
I got to know what this freak of a man
looks like. And it's funny because he does flash some athleticism,
he flashes some power. He's also extremely rabbic. You're like, man,
if I'm a coach, I'm like, dude, let's get this
(16:27):
guy in the building and see what we can do,
because he is a dangerous, dangerous burst of if he's
that large of a human being. So really impressed, it
really impressed with him, and you know, like, I can't wait.
He's in the first group, boss, So I can't wait
to watch him live in practice tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Now to pivot from large men. We were in the stands.
We had a fan come up that was talking to us,
who is a big fan of a center. Yes, he said, Man,
I hear a pop and I look over and it's
always him. Well, it's hard to see him sometimes is
coming from because tell us about him.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Willie Lampkin, North Carolina. He is five to ten five
ten and a half measured at five ten and a
half two hundred and seventy pounds.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
An offensive lineman at five to ten.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
He's placed center. He's listed at center. And so if
you think about it, like Picard for the Baltimore Ravens
is three hundred pounds. He plays full back. This is
a very unique looking body type. He's kind of like
a little little jitterbug out there right. He snaps the
ball and he's got really quick feed. He's got good power,
good pop, good explosion from the hips. But you're just like,
can a person that small play successful center at the
(17:29):
NFL level? I don't know, but he's definitely given a
good go today, Like he showed out in terms of
his quickness ability to overtake some of these big guys.
He got a one on one with Dion Walker today.
That's the six to seven guy from Kentucky who's three
hundred and forty pounds. Kind of stoned him a little bit.
And Dean Walker doesn't play with great pad level. That's
one of the big knocks on him in my opinion.
Not very coordinated with his pastor's plan. But like you
(17:50):
got to win the battle, right, and so talk about
a David and Goliath matchup there that went to the
smaller player and he really did a great job, you know,
the giants layer kind.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Of you can be a smaller player and be successful, right.
No one's knocking on that. It's just paranormal because when
you think of offensive lineman, you don't think of it.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Like we just listed all these dudes who are over
six four, over three point thirty, they got thirty four
in Like this guy is not that he's the antithesis
of that, but.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
It does speak to potentially we haven't ever met him,
we haven't talked with him work ethic athletic ability because
he's overcome a limitation, Yeah, a limitation, and to get
to this point it makes you turn your head. Wait
a minute, a five to ten Lineman, I gotta go
see what this is and h and he did stick
(18:35):
out a little bit today and ironically, like literally, he
would be in the huddle and he was the shortest
guy in the Huddle's shorter than running backs. Yeah, and
it's like, wait, how is this going to work? It worked? Yeah,
it worked today. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
So we're definitely gonna watch him a little bit more
because again, that's kind of a fun story. Lampkin from
North Carolina. As always, U, when you see something like that,
do you see the big stuff? It's funny and when
you see the little stuff it's also interesting too. And
those guys are kind of on the other on both
ends of the spectrum. And it's hard for if you're
really big to make it's hard if you're really small
to make it. So it'll be interesting to watch those storylines.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
That's the fun of the Senior Bowl is seeing these
guys roll in and wondering what's going on these paulse
and pairanormals. I mean last year it was to and
Andre Sweat, Like I just I remember reading in Texas
they listed him as three something crazy three think three
sixty five sixty five And then here at the combine.
He was like, I'm not weighing it. Yeah, leave it
(19:29):
to your imagination. I'm as big as you think I am.
And it's like, how is that why? And he moved
so well, falling so big and obviously had a great
season this past year with the Titans. And then you
have a guy like Johnny Wilson was another one that
stood out last year, a wide receiver from Florida State,
and he was six seven forty clearly the tall got
(19:54):
five and charms like, just a huge, huge wide receiver.
Moved pretty well and I believe he's on the Eagles,
had a decent year. Yeah. Right. So that's what's fun
to me about the Senior Bowl is seeing all the
different sizes from all around the country. And but they're
all guys at at the top of where they were, right,
(20:16):
That's why they're here. They were they reached the pinnacle
of their school and some of them in their conference,
and that's why they're here. Let's see how they all
stack up together. It's fun, man, Yeah, it's a lot
of fun.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
And again, like I said, that's one of the reasons
you come is for those freaky guys, but you also
come for really good football players and finding those diamonds
in the rough, which is always a good time.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
So let's talk about the actual football that we saw
played today in the drills, the one on ones, which
are the best, the indies and the team drills. Logan,
I want you to tell me a couple of guys
that stood out in the practice that we saw today.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, so I'm gonna go back to Carson Vincent from
Alabama and m the tackle. You know, the six six,
he's three fourteen, he's got thirty five in a quarter
inch arms And immediately you look at him, and I
went and watched this film, you're like me, and he's
really raw, but he's got a good finisher's mentality. He's aggressive,
and you're like, well, how's he going to do versus
larger school prospects. And like I said, there's a lot
(21:09):
of really really good defensive lineman here, specifically on the edge,
guys that really just jumped out to you in terms
of size. You know, you got Princely, a minimalia from
Old miss who's kind of the maybe the fourth or
fifth edg rusher in.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
The class, but a pass rush specialist.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
We already talked about Samar Stewart from Texas A and M.
Jared Ivy from Old Miss. Right, just really kind of
physically imposing guys that played big time football Old Miss
and m all these different spots. So this guy gets
in there, like what's going on? And he's in this
tackle group with a bunch of guys who played a
lot of football, a lot of LSU guys, and he,
to me, showed exactly what he needed to show today.
(21:47):
And so his ability to move his feet mirror really
well use his length I thought was outstanding. And again
there's guys in this group like Emery Jones, a guy
from LSU I thought probably more of a guard, but
let him.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Fail at tackle.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
He plays tackle that you see some of his the
slow foot inness, the physical limitations. He's big, he's strong,
but he can't quite quite keep up with some.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Of those speed rushers. Right.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Logan Brown from Kansas another guy that you're like, oh man,
he measured really well thirty four and a half inch arms,
but again looked a little bit out of depth with
some of these better rushers. And so for me, what's
his name? Carson Vincent had the last call out today.
Jason the last call out of the day versus to me,
who's probably a guy who's probably the fourth or fifth
(22:30):
ed rusher in the class, A guy that I think
the commanders are probably going to take a really hard
look at. In Stewart. You know, he's that six '
five two to eighty guy and.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Edge from Texas A and H just looks like a gladiator.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Right, So you get out there, you're like, man, small
school guy versus one of the top prospects in this class,
Like if he's probably i'd say twenty five to forty
range in the draft, so a really good football player.
And he tried to hit him on an inside move.
Vincent did a great job mirroring using his length, keeping
him flat, and I was like, this dude, if he
can figure it out, he's got the athletic profile, he's
(23:04):
got the size profile. He can it looks like just
from watching them walk around that he can add probably
fifteen pounds. So he playing at three twenty five, three thirty,
And all of a sudden, you say, man, like, if
there's a guy to take a shot on, a guy
maybe in the third round, a guy maybe late second
you say, this guy could develop into a starting caliber
player just based on athletic traits.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
And again it's the first day.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
There's a lot of days left to go, but that
got me a little excited. They did a run blocking
period today where again you see kind of his lack
of elite power and strength that some of these other
guys have, Like he's just he's not giving up a loss,
but getting sewed a little bit. But that was really
exciting for me to see today.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
And that's not to say though that the edge Schmart
Stewart from Texas AMM had a bad day. He had
a good day because he did it. He had a
really good day. Yeah, he had a great day.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
You see his again, just his like you watch him
go through the warm up lines and you're like, who
is that? And I thought it was a different player
for the majority of the thing, a much smaller player
and you're like, man, that dude's extremely athletic. He's he's
And then you're like, oh, that's Stuart. And Stuart weighs
two hundred and eighty pounds. And for him to be
moving that way in the run drills, like the way
(24:09):
he takes on tackles, the way he can use his length,
the way he sets edges his power on some of
the bull rushes, like I mentioned, you know, Logan the
tackle excuse me from Kansas, big guy six six three
twenty thirty four and a half in charms, and he
kind of made him look like they didn't belong on
the same field.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
So in terms of a guy that just you know, one.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Of them in Vincent was exceeding expectations that kind of
show and he could play with the big dogs at
Stay one. Got two more days to kind of see
how that progresses. But Stuart Man, like, you're kind of saying,
let's keep an eye on this guy because if he
keeps playing this way, he's gonna bump some of these
other rushers and be kind of that mid from mid
to late first round guy I said, twenty five to forty.
(24:50):
Maybe he bumps up and he's fifteen to thirty five
and he's you know, definitively a first round pick, which
would be again based on what we saw today, not
outside the ram of possibility.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, and just from my jaguyesrom what I saw today,
there were two plays that stood out to me. When
they were running the team drills and they started actually
going at full speed, they weren't just kind of walking through.
He had one play where he did a nice bull
rush and then a quick grab and pull and swim
move over. It would have been a sack. He obviously
(25:21):
let up. They don't hit the quarterbacks here. It would
have been a real quick, easy sack. And another one
where he shed a block double team actually very quickly
to get the runner at the line of scrimmage. Very
nice play, and again he's more of that.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
In my mind, I'm always kind of thinking of guys
that fit what the Washington commanders want to do. So
you want guys that have some position flexibility. Right, he
can play as a true hand in the dirt three
four defensive end. He can play a six, he can
play a nine. You can also play in a pass
rushing situation a three technique over the guard. And you
saw that in his film at Texas A and M.
(25:55):
And so when you see a guy who, you know,
what does Dan Quinn like to say, you're going to
know how get down? Like he plays with that edge
and that physicality, like watching him versus Missouri at Texas
A and M. Watching him sprint out of the stack
on a screen at two hundred and eighty two and
eighty five pounds and running down a receiver just like
I don't this guy's sack production in college was not
(26:16):
great to get one sack last year or zero hit
zero sacks last year, had a bunch of pressures with
zero sacks. You know, Like, this guy plays the game
the right way with the with the physical traits in
the upside. So he's a guy that we're definitely gonna
keep an eye on because again, where the commanders are picking,
it's kind of that bottom of the thing there. So
if he does kind of for whatever reason, slip down
that way, that's a really interesting football player to keep
(26:37):
an eye on.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, give me one more player that stood out to you,
Just one more one more.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
So. One of the running backs today really stuck out
to me. He was interesting because I didn't really know
about him obviously, And that's one of the reasons you
come to the senior ball. It's Bernard Smith from SMU,
and they do a lot of run one on ones
and they're very unfair to the linebackers. A ton of space,
a ton of grass. But what you're watching there is
just like general movement skills, like the rhythm of the route.
(27:06):
So running backs tend to be like a little bit
muscle bound. They're a little tight in the upper back,
they're tight in the hamstrings. As they're running people over.
They have to be physical, they have to kind of
have this body armor on. And so when you see
a guy like Bishard Smith who has a little bit
of receiver to his movement skills, right, he's loose in
the upper back, he can stick his foot in the ground.
He can give you a nice like the old crossover drill,
(27:29):
the Okie Doe kind of inside outside move and break
across the leverage. Like those things are things you say, man,
if you're an offensive coordinator on third down passing game,
how to utilize him. And then when you watch the
team stuff, he's got a nice burst, a nice kind
of snakelike feel through the hole. So for a guy
that was not on my radar at all coming into this,
(27:50):
like to see him move around, to see him win
all his pass rushing one on ones or his pass
his route running one on ones, I was like, man,
he's a guy that I definitely got to go watch
and maybe wasn't utilized correctly at SMU because he seems
like he's got this natural route running ability. And that
was really cool to see. And then R. J. Harvey,
who's obviously the best running back kind of the biggest
(28:11):
name in the second group of runners here at the
Senior Bowl, also had a great day. But whatever reason,
Bashard Smith just kind of stuck out a little bit more,
a little bit quicker, a little bit more dexterous catch
in the football. So he's someone I'm definitely gonna watch
more film up tonight.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, absolutely, moving on just very quickly. One of the
things that I think we were disappointed about with the
Senior Bowl with some guys that didn't show up. Yes,
and it's a prerogative to show up, like we're disappointed
as fans because we want to see him play. And
the two biggest ones that didn't show up. The first
one the wide receiver from TCU. Oh my gosh, So
ViOn Williams. He was.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
So he's a guy man that you talk about, explosive
traits and a playmaker. He played quarterback in high school.
He was at TCU. He's six three and a half
six four, two hundred thirty pounds. He played their wildcat quarterback.
He played receiver. He got Jets sweeps, he made contested catches,
he's got great explosiveness and suddenness, and so with a
(29:10):
guy like that, you're like, how does he actually play
the receiver position right? How does he actually do it?
So in a setting like this, you're like, oh my gosh,
I can't wait to see what this size, strength, speed
looks like with a player like that. But unfortunately had
injury and wasn't able to make it out. So that's
always that's always tough because the players got to do
what's right for them, you know. And so selfishly we
(29:31):
wanted to come here because I want to see him
in person. I've seen the tape. I'm excited about the tape.
I want to see what he looks like in person.
But he's got to make that decision. So hopefully he's
the guy we see at the combine. And another guy
that I forgot to mention we were doing this rundown
was Bo Scarborough. He was supposed to come is not here.
And again that's one where I wonder if as the
you know, the playoff process went on, started talking to
(29:53):
his agent, they started talking to teams. He had a
much higher grade on him than they thought originally. Again,
like he was a guy that when I first started
doing this, which is about four weeks ago, had like
a fourth or fifth round grade. And then as you
start talking to teams, as you start listening to other
draft content, as you start you know, like kind of
getting the buzz from guys who are insiders, you know,
(30:16):
mel Kiper all these different guys, it's like, oh, this
guy might be a second round pick. And so that
was a little bit of a shift, and I wonder
if that was one of the reasons why he decided
not to come.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah, it's it's interesting. He'll be at the Combine, you
would think for sure. I hope so, so we'll get
to see him there. It's different, right because it's non contact.
But that's why I love the Senior Bowl. Man. I
love the contact part of it much fun.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
It's football, and I think that's the thing that you know,
for example, like would we know that Carson Vincent can
play football at the Combine? No, but he comes here
to the Senior Bowl. He plays better competition. Remember Alabama
and m small school, right, very small school. They're not
playing a lot of D one opponents, right, because he
had they have one game this year against Auburn, Right,
and he looks a little bit out of his depth
(31:00):
and he comes here and Jason and I don't want
to harp too much on this guy because other guys
had great days. You know, the kid from Sacramento State
had a fantastic day to day. And just like in
terms of guys that are making the most of their opportunity,
Jackson Slater played guard, played center and just had like
that dog to him. But Vincent had the same thing.
He has a down block on power in the team period.
And you know most guys they kind of fit up
(31:21):
and they get off of it, and he's like he's
like you know, you could tell he's like jacked ub
and like, yeah, let's go run behind me, Let's do it.
And that's kind of silly stuff. But talked about a guyho's.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Passionate about football and passionate about being he sounds like
a commander. Sounds like a commander. No, but there's something
to that, right. Like one of the things if you
look back on last year's draft for the Commanders that
was so successful, what were those guys. They were all leaders,
They were all captains, and you have to be vocal
leaders to be that way too. They play with a
passion and they don't hide it. Yeah, that doesn't mean
you have to be loud, right to be liked by
(31:53):
an organization. But there's something about the competitiveness, right. I
think the word is dog ass competitor.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
They're just doll gas competitors, right, And there's something to
that that you see when you have competitive football being played.
You don't get that at the combine because it's routes
on air, right, it's just running drills. There's an importance
to that. But there's this is it's football, right, and
it is different. And speaking of seeing people playing football
(32:21):
and not routes on airs, let's quickly go through the quarterbacks.
The three big ones that we saw was Jackson Dart
from Ole, Miss, Riley Leonard from Notre Dame it was
just in the championship game, and then Jlen Milroe Alabama.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, and so you're like the quarterback expert a little bit.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
That's only because it was the first thing I scouted.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, and I haven't done it so to be fair,
I did.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
It because I wanted to get them out of the way. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Right, So I'll say this about Jalen Millro today, I
think you see a lot of this stuff the same
stuff you saw from in Alabama. You see a tremendous athlete.
You see a guy that has really just a nice
arm velocity and ball velocity. It's got a little bit
of a wobble to it, which was surprising to see
in person. I talked to someone today who said it's
because he's got small hands. And he does have small hands.
(33:08):
They're like eight and three quarters, but technically smaller than
like can he Pickett at this point?
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Right? Who measured it nine? Yeah, if you listen to
other draft podcasts, you'll find out who this is. I
guarantee you he's going to bring it up.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I was listening to something on the way over here
and he already brought it up. So but he could.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I'll let you let you find that take on your own.
But that is a thing, right, if you got a
smaller hand, you got a hold farther back on the ball,
and he does rip it. It's fast, it's good release,
but it might be affecting his accuracy. Is he was
a little delayed. And I hate when people say on
the first day that a quarterback looked delayed. It's the
first day running routes with people. You don't know. With protections,
(33:42):
you don't know.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
With offense, you don't know, brand new.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
And so like when people say he looked a little sluggish,
I'm like, okay, Like you know who also looks sluggish
the first day of the Seer Bowl bo Nix.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
N Yeah, he did not look great the first day last.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Year and he figured it out. So like, to me,
for quarterbacks, a lot of this stuff that they're evaluating,
teams are evaluating is off the field. It's kind of
how you handle adversity. It's how you handle the meetings
and the interactions with the teams. And we talked about
the commanders building relationships with players. That's to me a
big part of the quarterback stuff. Like so, for example,
shad Or Sanders was at the Shrine Bowl and multiple
(34:18):
teams asked him not to participate. He just was there
for the interviews, and I thought he did that of
his own volition. But the rumor is that the Giants like,
don't do it. The Cleveland Brown's like, don't do We'll
just interview you and have our kind of savior throwing
for the combiner, the individual workout, whichever you prefer. And
so again, obviously if a guy throws here, great, but
if they don't throw it seems like NFL teams have
(34:40):
different they're looking for different things from quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah. One of the things with Milrow is that, Yeah,
he like the sluggish thing, right. Yeah, you give the
guy a break for all the reasons he said at.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
The same time at Alabama in the film.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
At Alabama, tough ball security not super accurate. Me canics
weren't always there, led the bad decision making bad throws percent. Well,
maybe some of that is sneaking in here. How much
of it we don't know?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
And again that's something that you got. I think I
think you're immediately biased to it because you saw.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
That in com It feels like confirmation bias.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
But it's I'm also going to give the guy three
days at least to kind of figure it out. Jackson
Dart had a couple miss snaps today. You know, he's
he's been in the gun his entire college career. So
how much of that plays into it? Again, people are
going to say he looked a little off, had a
couple incompletions. I was really impressed that the ball comes
out of his hand. Personally, Yeah, really layers that thing
(35:36):
in can really zip it.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I think he's got great touch too. He can zip it,
but I think there are times when he knows just
how to layer it.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
He's probably of the guys that I saw today, and
again I haven't really watched him on film yet. The
guys that I saw today that throws the most NFL
ish if that makes sense. The touch, the ball, velocity
and kind of touch everywhere in the field. Maybe not
the biggest thrower, but can hit that, you know, twenty yard,
comeback and do all that stuff. And again, timing was
(36:04):
a little bit weird on some of the stuff today,
and that's going to get better as it goes. Like
I remember Pennis for example too, the ball came out
great the first day, but still working through some stuff.
And we haven't really talked about this, but this receiver
class at the Combine this year or at the Senior
Bowl this year not very different than what it was
last year. Last year there was I want to say,
(36:26):
there was five dudes taken in the first two rounds
if I remember correctly, and this year maybe two maybe one.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Let's talk about this real quick, not just with the receivers,
but let's talk about the draft classes as a whole. Yeah,
because every draft is different. Right. That's something that I've
certainly learned since working here is that there's you can't
I think it's unfair to compare draft classes because it's
the one that's ahead of you. They all have different personalities,
(36:55):
so like it's I don't know, it's like comparing this
guy to his cousin and like, well he doesn't look
exactly say well, yeah, yeah, different parents, there's some similarity.
But so there are definitely some players here that are
going to be great NFL players. The amount may not
be there because of just there's just something about the
(37:17):
raw talent that was in last year that you just
don't see here.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Well, definitely the raw talent in the Senior Bowl last year, right, Like.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
There was Lattu.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Latu was here, right, who was like yeah was the
was the second rusher taken? And then you've got you know,
Talisi fu Wonga, You've got you know, Frasier was here,
you got Powers, Ja Jackson, Powers Johnson. All those guys
were damn near first round picks.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Right like they were. And so Mitchell was out of.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Here, Quinjon Mitchell, Lad McConkie was here right, just the Pennix,
bon Nickx, like Joe Milton was here, like talk about
freaky talent. Not quite the same in this Senior Bowl. Now,
I think this is where scouting, coaching, all these things
come together because there are future Hall of famers that
are probably playing in this game. We can't really see
(38:08):
them because you don't see the wow yet, right, But
there someone is in here, and whether it's the work ethic,
the mental composition, the physical traits, the interviews that we're
not getting access to, that's in there. And so I
think that's the fun part about this too, is saying, hey,
one of these guys, a couple of these guys are
going to hit. Can we distill it down in a
(38:29):
draft class that maybe he doesn't. And I'll say this,
I think there's good depth in it. The top end
isn't quite what the top end was last year.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I'll say that, Yeah, I would agree completely with that.
Like if you look at just yeah, let's let's look
at it the last year's draft, the top players at
their positions, Like all those guys hit like that is
so rare.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Joe Alt, Jayden Daniels, Caleb Williams a lot too, Jared Verse.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Like elite neighbors, Thomas Jr. Marvin Harrison, rock Powers breaking records.
So yeah, it's not that may not happen this year
because that was such a uniqu year. But that doesn't
mean that this is a quote unquote down year. Yeah,
it's just different. Yeah, it's different.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Right, It's like the people that are going to hit
are going to be different. And we just talked about,
you know, like we're excited. Like a guy that again
didn't practice today, which was such a bummer because I
think he's got some tremendous ability, but a mad medboo
right from Missouri. He plays guard tackle. He's six four
three thirty five, long arms thirty four and a three
(39:37):
quarters like long guy for a tackle, like so a
little undersized but lightning quick. Right, So there's that guy
where you're saying, hey, if you get him in a
Kyle Shanahan offense and he sits behind Trent Williams for
a year, is he the next kind of like really
explosive kind of playmaking tackle and he plays guard tackle?
Now you know what I'm saying. So finding homes those guys.
Josh Simmons, the tackle from Ohio State.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
He looks so good on film, he's prob film.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
You've played six games and he's got a ptell injury.
But like, there are guys here that are crazy talented.
I think that's the other thing Melf Kaiper said, which
I think is a great point, is that a lot
of the top guys in this class, like Will Johnson,
like the number two corner after a Hunter in this
class from Michigan, is banged up. You've played two games
this year, right, We just talked about Josh Simmons, who
(40:21):
again probably the number two to one tackle in this class,
banged up, right, and you go down the list, You're like, huh, right.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Like where is where's all? Where? Where do all these
pieces fall? They're all hurt.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
A lot of them were hurt this year, and so
there's a little bit of a question about their ability
to translate to the next level. But that doesn't mean
they're not gonna be good pros.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Absolutely, Yeah, I agree. I think I think this is
where we should end today. Yeah, we'll be out at
practice tomorrow. We'll catch all of practice tomorrow, both practices.
Promis this time, we promise we're going to have interviews
coming for you. I'm going to make sure that we
we get some good ones on here. We'll probably have
somebody from pretty popular podcast here Draft Podcasts that you
(41:01):
hear someone we may have been referencing today. Yeah. I've
just been reaching out, been getting a lot of positive
feedback on guests, and we may have a really special
one this week too. Oh yeah, really special, big get
for not just Commanders fans, but for anybody who's a
fan of how the Commanders have turned things around this year.
(41:21):
Might have them on this week. That'd be pretty cool. Yeah,
so we're gonna come after every single Senior Bowl practice,
we'll do a podcast and come to you live from Mobile, Alabama,
and then we're off to the Combine. I think would
be next, Well be next, Yeah, let's finish this one
up first then. Yeah, I'm we just got it. Just
feels like everything's moving so fast, like we were just
(41:43):
playing Philly just a couple of days ago, championship seventy
two hours ago. Yeah, that's well man, Jane and Daniels.
He's good at football. What a good evol. I said
that to someone.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
I said that to someone today, They're like, yeah, you
really got about that one?
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Iota that? Yeah, good Evail?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
All right, Yeah, man, Please make sure you check us
out tomorrow and we love talking draft. If you've got questions, comments,
please leave them in there for us. It always helps
us out. Like the subscribe we have to get your podcast,
and if you like this Commander's content, you can check
us out on the Commander's YouTube page. We got a
bunch of shows on there as well. But yeah, we'll
see you tomorrow and that's gonna do it for today's show.
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