Former NFL Cornerback and Washington Legend Fred Smoot joins Logan Paulsen to breakdown their top 10 Defensive Backs in the 2025 NFL Draft. The guys disagree over the importance of technique or physical attributes. Then, they discuss tips and tricks to avoid over-drafting the hardest position to evaluate. Plus, the great Travis Hunter debate and is Will Johnson underrated?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On today's episode of Take of the Draft podcast, Fred
smoot is our special guest.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
At list top Cup of Special List.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
That's right, we're talking safeties, cornerbacks, all the dbs. Fred
gives you what he's looking for when he's watching film.
We talked Travis Hunter wide receiver dB and then number
Fred's number one defensive back might surprise you.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
It all starts right now.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Welcome Innute Tick of the Draft Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I'm Logan Paulson here with just the guy Jason, and
today is a special day because we have the mouth
of the South, Fred smoot and we're here talking defensive backs.
Before we get into that, make sure you leave a
comment makes you like him, subscribe. Those comments really help
us kind of dictate future content. Let us know what
you like, let us know what you don't like. But
now that that housekeeping is taken care of.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Fred Smootie, Now he got comedy this time of year.
What do I tell you when I get it to
my zine? All right, when I get into this this
draft process, when the computer store what to work and
still have to compute, I go by smoothy mcshae moody.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I want to write that down smoothie mix shade. I
thought was uh Fred Kuiper.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
And you know, the one thing about Kayper is he's
just like the local weather man. Uh he's wrong most
of the time, and nobody seems to care.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
So, uh, Jason, you got anything you want to say?
Speaker 5 (01:24):
What I wanted to say is that Fred is our
favorite guest on this show because you and him get
into it about who is the real draft guru for
a command center, right, Fred definitely thinks it's him. Logan,
You're like, it's clearly men that if anybody listened to
our podcast last year, we did an episode that we're
going to do another one this year, but last year's
it was called Guaranteed Ballers, and each one of you
(01:46):
drafted six guys that you were like, they're going to
guarantee ball out this upcoming year.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Well, guess what. The year's over. We saw how they did.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I think not.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Here's what you guys put up on the line, do
you reader, I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Okay, nope, nope.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
One of you had to get on a knee and
say to the other you are the true draft guru
and I personally am nothing and nothing. That's what you
had to do. So here's what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Guys, I think interrupt, but I think two of my
guys got hurt last year.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
They got nothing to do, all right, So here's what
we're gonna I've already talked to producers of our other shows,
and this feels like something needs to be.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
So one our Command Center, the one right before the draft.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Reveal the results right before right.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
It will be on that show. The commandser at least
releases right before the drift April or something or another. Right,
we will reveal it live on Command Center, and we
will have either Fred or Logan getting down on one
knee bring and they're saying you, so, I'm not going
to tell you the results yet. I find out why.
(03:05):
So everybody needs a tune into that, and we're gonna
do that. We're going to do this again too. Fred
you already said he'll come back on for one of
our next pots. We'll do guarantee draft ballers for the
next year, and we'll have to find another penalty for
getting that wrong this time. But I already know the results.
I'm super exer I'm telling you, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It's okay, So let's get it.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
I'm gonna get out of here because I don't know
anything at all, being just a guy about DB's and
we have one of the best to ever put on
the Burgundy and gold at dB here with us, Fred Smoot.
So he's going to break it down with you, Logan
the draft guru, Right.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
No, at least for the time being super conflict.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Myself the draft guru. He's the draft professor. Gotcha, Yeah,
draft that's a great take it away.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Okay, so let's see, let's get into defensive backs and
so let's just super high level friend. Yeah, what are
some things We're going to talk about some definitions here
in a second, but let's start trades.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
You're looking for a DV just super high light rights.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
First of all, I'm looking for high football IQ. Everybody
wants to go first into the athletic ability. You wouldn't
You wouldn't be here if you want athlete, all right,
I'm looking for a high IQ. That means can I
play all coverages? Can I make my plays within the coverage?
And can I manipulate players to do what I want
them to do?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Right?
Speaker 4 (04:26):
So I'm looking for guys that then played a lot
of downs a lot of snaps. Hopefully guys thatn't line
up left right inside outside show me some versatility. So
I'm also looking for length. I love length, and sometimes
length come in different ways. Sometimes you can get a
fivelem dude with a six three wingspan, and that length
proves itself through un length and reach. I just think
(04:48):
this get out of trouble ability right there. It gives
you the ability when you do make a bad decision,
It helps you get out.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Of trouble having that length.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
And to me, it stops the number one route that
people like to go, and it's to go route.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
You've got long ums.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
It kind of prohibits people from running go routes on you.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
So I also love lint. I also love.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Quick twitch and sticky people. And the quick twitch is
the ability to go from zero to one hundred. It's
like driving a corvette. You want to know what the
corvette does in the ten to twenty and thirty seconds,
all right, And I want guy that can move in
a box, so that means quicker than fat sometime, because
I think your plays are going to be made in
(05:29):
a box than it is in a hundred year a
field most of the time.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, So let's talk about a couple things. Let's double
click on it real quick. So, like the high football
like Q one, I think is really really interesting because
it's something that's incredibly important for corner, probably more so
than maybe linebacker maybe is more important, but it's incredibly
important for defensive back. On when you're watching film, how
do you determine whether someone's got good football? Like, I
know you mentioned that line up in multiple spots. I
(05:53):
think that's a good way. Is there anything else you're
looking for?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Well?
Speaker 4 (05:56):
To see them play route combinations? Anticipation. That's telling me. One,
you study because you don't jump routes that you haven't
studied like two. This telling me you taking what you
studied on film and you're taking it to the field.
So not only are your study of but you trust
what you study and you also trust what you see.
If you line up through yours outside the numbers and
(06:18):
the slot guys right there out in the numbers, he's
gonna take me outside. Once I see the slot guy
go out, I mean go outside, I'm going inside regardless.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, this is the route combination.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It's so interesting looking at your description of you're listening
to your description of what you're looking for. Then looking
at your list, and I'm like, all the guys on
your list really fit your vision, fits your ranking at
a high level. So I really can't wait to talk
about that. So let's talk about a couple term like definition,
clarification things. So for me with a DV, let's just
get out of the way. I also look for length.
(06:48):
I look for kind of awareness. I look for like
a competitive toughness. I probably value that more than you.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I would say, no, no, I love a competitor.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Like the one thing about being a competitive what it
does is it's telling me, no matter what happens in
this game, good bad in between, you're gonna keep competing
and you have to be that way because you're gonna
get burned in the NFL. So competitor goes very high
on my list cause this mentality that's part of the
coneback's mentality.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I got to have that, but go I got to
have a dog.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
And I also look and I also and we friend
and I have talked about this before, and this is
one area where we I don't think we differ on
but I probably value it more than you. Is I
need to see like a physical courage I need to
see a guy who's willing to tackle put his face
in there. Just that to me, because like, ultimately, football
is a physical game. Yeah, and you got to show
me you can do it.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
So that's one thing.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
That's one thing that I, again, I value pretty heavily.
So those are some things that I'm looking at. I
agree with Fred. The situational awareness stuff is so important
for corner. Yeah, you just got to be smart down.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
It's where we on the field, fifty yard line. It's
time for them to throw go routes. Just knowing that
the small stuff that you should know automatically. If it's
three by one and I'm on the back side, I'm
probably gonna get attacked.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Like just understanding the game awareness.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, no one.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So Okay, that's kind of high level stuff and I
think that's all really good. And there's something all subjective
about all these things and that's why the drafts so hard.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
But let's talk about these terms. Are you're familiar?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So one of the terms that I hear thrown around
a lot, and Fred mentioned it with the short area
quickness stuff, which is also very important, is the clicking
closed stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
You hear that term all the time.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
You're listening to any draft analyst talk about TV there
like he's got great clicking clothes, Yes, Fred, Yes, what
is that?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
That's seeing it and going getting it?
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Like, if you want me to put it in lameish terms,
he closes to the ball and he takes the air
out of it. He understands angles. I see most people
they can see something, but they take the wrong angle
to go make the play like they having the ability
to close is one thing is being quick. Two things
is believing what you see. Three things is going getting it.
(08:41):
And this has got to be tenth of a second. Now,
this is not a two second thing. Like you have
to close this gap very quickly, and some guys are
better at it than other guys. This is what I
love about a guy like Will Johnson in this group,
you're talking about clicking and closing. This guy right here,
and that's why I got him as the best he
be in his class. I know they gonna shine a
lot of people, but I'm sorry he is.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And we're definitely going to talk about that more in detail.
And you know, again who's my number one and where
the rest of the list falls. But I also think
clicking clothes to me is like when I see that,
there's that there's the recognition, there's the mental element of it,
but there's also the physical element where you see the footwork.
Is the footwork tight? Are they getting kind of off balance?
Another guy really high on this list for both of us,
(09:23):
that is a little bit all over the place with
the footwork, right, Can that get cleaned up? Because at
the NFL level, those missteps, those.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Gotta be like you gotta be very feeline like in
the feelane always laying on his feet. And one thing
about it is the quick twitch and it are you
taking a t step?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Like? What how are you getting there?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Are you balance?
Speaker 4 (09:44):
As a defensive beat coach, I can clean up you,
I can make you a technician, but I got to
have something to work with.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I think that's a great that's a great differentiator there,
all right. The other one that if people say all
the time is he's sticky in coverage. Now this can
me in my opinion, be a bad thing. It can
be a good thing.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Now that's a different between me and sticky and handsy.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yes, yes, they are two different things.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Sticky mean you're never floating, You're never too far away
from your guy. No matter what route he runs, Like
if he's running that post, I'm right here on his
back hip he's running that dig route. Because we got
a couple of guys in this draft that they play
over and under routs better than any corners I've seen
in a couple of years, Like listens Reveale Junior does
(10:27):
that at a high level.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
So we're gonna talk about I'm chopping.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
They got me going because the more and more I
started to study this group, I was like, my god,
it's something literally game changes. Then I start to write down, Mike,
who I'm comparing them to, because I think everybody got
a little bit of somebody we have seen already.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And I just I looked at it.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I like, I can't keep writing these bowlers, Like why
am I keep saying Pro Bowl?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And then I said, maybe in this group is a
group that has these type guys.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
No, I think that's that's one hundred percent right. So sticky, proximity, handsy.
The thing about all these college and bess are all
a little bit handsy. And so what I remember that
is there's no illegal contact downfield. Yeah, right, so they
tend to be a little bit more pully, a little
bit more gravvy. There's a guy that is very high
on my list that I almost didn't put there because
he's so handsy. But I think that's something like I'm
(11:19):
hoping that that they can get cleaned up at the
next level.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Yeah, and that's where the coaching comes in. That's where
the coaching comes in at and the veterance that's on
the team, because you learn a lot from the veterans.
Like everybody won't have a treasure trove of knowledge like
I had with Dion sanders Dale Green and Champ Bailey.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I basically walked into DBU.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah all right. And then the last one, which I
think is very important but not as important as people
think it is, is closing speed.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Well, you only need closing speed when you're getting yourself
in trouble, when you're technically not there early.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Like they always say, either dB, you're gonna win early?
Are you gonna win late?
Speaker 4 (11:56):
You only need to strove closing speed when you when
you then lost. All right, closing speed comes when you
recognize when recognition kicks in and I got to go
get this out route like he go to different between college.
You could be you could be just better than somebody
where I can break up this slant route, and then
in the league you learn I have to tackle this
(12:17):
slant route right, So it's a different because of the
aptalytic ability of the guys on the other side. So
these are the small thing that you learn from closing speed.
Closing speed is the ability to get out of trouble.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, I like it, and they think about it like
closing to make the tackle or closing on a slant
or you're in off coverage and you got to rally
to a hitch like that's kind of what we're talking about.
So now I think the moment we've all been waiting
for is this top ten quarterbacks list, And so we're
gonna do is We're gonna stop start at ten, go
to one. We've got a couple of names that are
floating around that are a little bit different, so we're excited.
(12:50):
I guess, Fred, why don't you give me your ten
to ten to eight and then I'll give you my
ten day we can talk about it.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
We're going to start with Trey Amos from O Me reason.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
You know, I don't like too much from Old Miseries,
but they do JJ Pergeze, they big Dtac, I do
like him, but uh, trade is first of all, competitor,
I'm gonna say that. And we talked about being a competitor. Two,
he's played against high notch competition.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
He's been in a bunch of different schools.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, he's traveled.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
He understands like when I look at some DB's and
it's a couple of DB's on my list that if
you look at them mathematically and chrammatically and how they
test it, they not test the best. But what they
do is they what I call a jack of all trades.
They're not grated no one thing, but they're good at
a lot. And Trey ain't is epitomizes that my flaws
(13:43):
are minimal, but my great things are minimal, if you
know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Dude, I kind of feel the same way. So he's
just off my list. So he would have been like
eleven or twelve for me. And we'll talk about some
other guys that just didn't quite make it, but he's
one of them. And he's the guy that I felt
like was was line, like he was like, you know,
he was in the right position. I felt like some
of his clicking clothes stuff was a little bit sluggish, right,
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
A little bit off balance, right, I didn't feel nothing.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
You can clean up though, yes, And.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
That's why I would defer to you.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Like, that's why I'm watching him, like he's a little
off bounds, he's a little bit sluggish. His immediate reaction
isn't there. Yeah, he tracks the ball really well. Yeah,
he sees the ball well. The other thing that bugged
me about him is like, there wasn't this urgency to
the football.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
He's kind of like a hidden confidence. I get there.
When I get there, I totally understand.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
But also he showed me why receiver traits and that's
what I'd like to see in my BBS because you
got two type of cornerbacks. You got your cornerbacks that
used to play running back and you got your cornerbacks
that used to play wide receiver.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I tend to go with the why receive.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
A group because now you think like a wide receiver
aka Mikey Sanders Steele. I'm a guy that used to
play wide receiving, so now I'm going to do at
the cornerback. Was this year's play a more physical brand
of why I receive? And think about him as a
a NI Son ultimate. I'm telling you I can put
two hundred thousand miles on it in dependable. Look for
(15:09):
him to get drafted to a play a parental playoff
team like a Pittsburgh stealer, and then he becomes a
ten year of Pittsburgh stealer. He's that type of guy.
Will he ever make it to All pro status? I'm
not saying that, but could he be a Pro Bowl
of one or two years on the team that's winning.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
I think he could.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, And I think you know, he's a big guy.
He's about six one. He's like I think he's six
and three quarters. If I found got long arm, he
was one of the bigger guys. Ran a four four
at the COMBA. He's got some juice, man. And again
like this is not to me. There was just that
that that lack of urgency always makes me a little
bit nervous.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Who's your ninth guy?
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Fro Exavier Wise now notre dame.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Listen, safety for safety.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
For another dame?
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Do you pity me of what we just talked about?
Good at everything, great at nothing but ball. I Q
through the roof, I see it through his plane.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
He's a fun he's so I'm really glad you put
him on here. He's a really fun player.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
To I've been saying when I watched him, he jumps
off the screen and when I watched DB's, especially when
it's safety. Do I ever see you just fly into
the screen? Do I see you do that on downhill runs?
Do I see you do that on slint routes? Do
I see you do that on tight ends? This anticipation,
this physicality, that understanding my assignment. This is an assignment based, dude,
(16:28):
This is a coach's dream. Listen, when a coach get
a guy like Exavier, watch you say here, go to playbook,
can't wait to see you at practice themorrow, and you
worry about nothing because you know the interlactor is there
and you know professionalism.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
This is what this guy's about.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
So I don't disagree that anything you said. The one.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
He's a he's a heck of a ball player, man
like he gets he's around the football, always balls out,
he's recovering fumbles, he gets interceptions. He's a tough he's
a he's a very sound, competent tackler, all the things
you want to see. I think he's better near the
line of scrimmage in the post. The one thing I
have on him, the one thing that really kind of
made me nervous. I think he's a subpar athlete, and
(17:08):
subpar athletes in the NFL at dB specifically, yeah, tend
not to figure it out right.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
I would not say that because I played with a
lot of safeties that was never the greatest athlete, but
they was Ryan Clark, for instance.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
But I think think about Ryan for example, was Ryan
was a psycho coming towards the line of scrimma.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
This guy's not that.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
And then when you watch him the post, he doesn't
cover the same kind of ground.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I think he's a bad angle steam And I.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Think it's that's that's the thing though, But also I
think it's also I seen him kind of lay away
from one guy that's on your list, and Benjamin Morrison.
I've seen him sometime you go away from player that
you don't worry about, and I would see him lean
to the other side sometimes because this way he figured
the ball was going. So I see him trying to
play the mental game inside the game. But when I
(17:58):
say a pros pro and the reason I out of
Ryan Clark anybody that played with ryand Clark could tell you.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Had never met a better pro.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
You had never met a guy that literally the chicks
all the boxes besize I'm not the greatest athlete.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And again Ryan was special in terms of physical violence. Again, like,
this guy is a fun football he's a football players
football player. But I just worry that the angle thing
bothers me a little bit. The lack of top shelf athleticism.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
I think early on in his career he a package guy.
He'll be a part of and then he can hopefully
turn into the player that he was in college.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Okay, and this so number eight I'm really excited for
you to talking about because I actually in my breakdown
I wrote this is a young Fred Smooth.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
So and get what in my breakdown is I got
ritten right here in my iPhone three when I first
watched him play first team jumped off the screen.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
He's a competitor.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Yeah, and he ain't scared to yeap and he is
just long is you can see and he makes listen.
I should put the signature right there, Fred Smooth. Like,
I can't wait to watch the DRE because you know
they always do comps. They'll probably have to comfort to
I'm sorry. He plays with an intensity, he plays with
a swagger.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
He makes plays too.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Now, like we're not just talking about got it because
the one thing I don't like is hollow dB Like
I need to see some numbers. I need to see
you make an impact on the game. This guy makes
an impact on the game. Allah, Fred smooth, two point zero.
That's what you got. He's gonna get the ball back.
He ain't scared to throw it in there and tackle.
He'll be good and special teams from the door. This guy, right,
(19:40):
he'll make slaves.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
And so you're watching versus Louisville playing off coverage man,
his ability to read kind of bait the quarterback they're
running like a smash concepts a five yard hitch corner
behind you. Yeah, he intentionally hugs the hitch knowing I'm
jetting me.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, and he jets back. Makes a great player in
the football.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
He's competitive in man coverage at times, a little handsy,
but in college member, all these guys are little bit here.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
I think he's competent in run support.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
There's times on screens and stuff where he gets a
little bit, but like he's gonna fit his gap and
do what he's supposed to do. The Again, he wasn't
on my list. And this is again one of those
things that the analytics snurd in me does not like
about the drafts because he's a good football player. But
usually outside corners who runs slower than four or five
are not successful long term outside So he ran a
(20:26):
four five three four five four at the combine.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
That's legit time.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Plays faster, and that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
He's a good play like him.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
These So these two guys right here, And I'm glad
that's why we're having you on, yeah, because I get
a caught up in the draft stuff. You said, I'm
a professor, right, I got my math, my numbers, my formulas.
So eight and nine or nine to eight are good
football players, objectively good football players. They're tough, they're competitive,
they're what you want on the team. I worry about
physical threshold here a little bit, and I think that's
just to give you a different perspective.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I'm more of a guru and glaru goes with fields.
It goes with fields.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Hey do me a favor. Are who are we talking
about here?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
So this is this is Kobe Bryant Kobe Bryant from
Kansas dB plays outside corner.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, good football player.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I think he's and he's basically he's a Frenchman.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
I think he's going to be a better pro than
he is A he was a college player.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I like him a lot. Again, like the tape, the
tape is the tape. Yeah it's to me, it's the
athletic threshold.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
There is not a long history.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Just like with offensive lineman tackles with under thirty two
in charms, they tend not to play outside and maybe
you feel like you could move him in the nickel.
I don't know if he's got that skill set. It's
a different skill set.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
I think you would survive more outside because he knows
how to play the high i Q game.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
He understands.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
He reminds me a lot of Sale Madison also, and
how he plays his out man like. He has some
qualities and that's what I want. His DNA says, I
can survive. Runda Barber ran a four five forty. He's
a he's a nickel, but he was a nickel that
played outside. He only played nickel when they when they
went into the die package out of nickel package. But
(21:59):
other than that run day he played outside and it
survive wheel.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah, he's a fun guy to watch.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
He's a little again, Like I know, people compare like
I've seen National comps to him to like Emmanuel Forbes.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
He's much more physical.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
No, he plays strong, going at the top of the
route all of day.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
And his techniques better, like we talked about that clicking codes.
Like his footwork's really tight. He's very balanced. He's a
heck of a heck of a football player. Sorry, now
I'm gonna give you my ten nine eight and we'll
do a little analysis on each one.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
So I'm gonna go.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
This one was tough for me. Yeah, I didn't want
to put him on here, but I couldn't resist.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Like what one thing forced you to put him on?
Speaker 1 (22:31):
I'll talk to you about hi right now. So Darren Porter,
cornerback Iowa State. If you're a Commander's fan, I'm sure
you've heard about him. He's six two and a half,
he's two hundred pounds. He ran up four to two
eight at the combine, got a forty inch vertical. He
had the fastest three cone. Like, dude's a physical freak.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And it scares me. He's been in doesn't match out
of task.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
So he's been in college for six years.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah, this is his first year playing dB and physically
you can do anything you want. Yeah, I agree with you.
The film is not always there. The thing that got
me on there is when I looked at the three cone,
when I looked at the forty, when I looked at
the vertical, and he did the head. There was a
dig he was playing. I forget which team they were playing.
There was a dig route and he got himself in
bad position. Guy's running a dig and his ability to
(23:17):
turn his hips drive the dig.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, close the window. I'm like this, dude, someone's gonna
look at this guy.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
It's going to be a team that can has the chance. Yes, right,
And I hate to say it, I'm about to throw
up in my mouth. Sounds like something had Roseman to do.
Get this guy, draft this guy stashing for two years,
teach him how to play the cornerback position, how to
save the position, and before you know it, he's out
there like he has all the miserables. Yeah, and I
(23:46):
see this all the time. But these guys has this
miserable but don't have the fund.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
And again I don't disagree with what Fred said, Like
he's got some good plays, he got some flash plays,
but it's a little inconsistent.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
It's the routine play. He's there.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
That's the thing is I don't I'm not there with
it right, But I just think you look at the athlete,
you look at the physicality, you look at the length.
He had three inch arms, and he's like an offensive
lineman out there, like and when you look at it
and pressed situations with hands on receivers, I'm like, this
dude can cover anybody.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
But he's not always balanced. His footwork's not always great.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
So for me again, I just was like, and I
think the other thing I'll say about him is I
think there's a want to there that I submitt you
that I.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Like, you know, I think you at the lead over IQ,
and I think I'm IQ.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
This is the only one for me that I was like,
this is this is I am acknowledging, Like this is a.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Hail Mary for me.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I In terms of football player film, I like Kobe
Bryant better. I like Trey Amos better on film. But
I just thought, like, if you're looking upside here because
you're projecting, there's not a player in this class that
has more upside this I think we see him the
same way. I just rated him a little bit differently.
But if the situation is right and you can develop him,
(25:00):
I think he'd be a great I did.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Say it if I'm a dB coach, in which if
you a dB coach, your job he is on the line.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I'm taking Kobe Bryant because.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
He's he's ready, He's he's more developed.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
But if you if you can sit for a year
and understand what you're going to get out of him,
he's an older prospect when you're playing dB. Just thought
i'd throw that name in there. The next one, number
nine for me is Benjamin Morrison from Notre Dame, cornerback
outside player, coming off a hip surgery. This is his
second hip surgery since he's been in college. He only
played five games I think five games in college show guys.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
On this list.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
The thing about him is, I think he's very consistent. Yeah,
I think he plays good man coverage. I think he's
got a solid fielding zone. But the thing that really
sold me was his ability to play man like he.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
In his size.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Dude, Liz, be honest, he is a Dan Queen's delight.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I'm talking. But he's sixty three.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
No, he's he's six to one. I think I think
he measured its six and five eightsps just under it.
But he big guy, long arm Lon long long long.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Arms, Like you say, Chris man Delight, like he he
understands how to get it done.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Are you worried about a dB with two heel pens?
Speaker 4 (26:11):
This was what This was hard for me because why
he didn't make my least there's a dude.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
I'm worried about it.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
But then I look at the other guys on this
list and we'll talk about that when we get there.
There's a lot of guys that were really banged up
in this class, like that are good football players banged up?
And I just said, like based on the film, like
when he's playing, I don't know anything about the medical,
I don't know anything. We don't know anything about the
medical right now. But he is a guy that to
me really stuck out in a in a positive way
from the competitor.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
The ability to play it. Again, like we didn't talk
about this, we were talking about trace.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I'm looking for in dB because of how much man
people play in the NFL I really value man coverage
traits and you think the risk is worth the reward.
I don't know anything about the medical. I don't know
anything about the medical. That's all I'm saying. But like
you see it right, his ability to click and close,
play game, he can tackle, he takes plays in big games.
He covered dude, he went one on one. They put
(27:01):
him one on one with Marvin Errison Junior. Yeah, most
definitely last year and he locked him down. Yeah, so
he is a he's a football player. I like him
a lot, but again, the injury history is really tough there,
and I think he would make a lot of sense
based on what I just said. The man covers thing
A zari A. Thomas from Florida State talk about big dude. Now,
he's like six one and a half. He's got long arms,
thirty two inch arms. He's a big dude. He's two
(27:23):
hundred and five pounds. He's physical outdoors. He's got that
dog in front. He's got that dog.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
When I think of him, I just think of a
football play. Yeah, dude, like football player. I could probably
end up at safety before my career. Thover, Like I
am a football player.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
He's one of them. Coach. What you need me to do,
I've got.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
And again the reason he's lower on my list because
I think a lot of people say, oh, I've heard
he's going to be in the first round. I heard
he's going to be the fourth to be. He's not
the fourth one.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
BB.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I don't know because he doesn't. There's zero zone coverage
on his tape.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I can say they didn't x him to do it.
I can't get may it.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
And so you watch him at the Senior Bowl. He
does a great job and man situations, locking everybody down.
Like he's big, he's physically, he's long. He understands how
to play press, he understands how to play man, just period.
He is a violent tackler, which I love. Like he
had sixty eight tackles this year. Yeah for a receiver
or corn Yeah, which is insane. So like, again, my
(28:18):
guy's different from Fred, Darren Porter obviously upside play, but
Benjamin Morris the man coverage as Ari Thomas de man
and man coverage and the physicality in the run game.
They are again not overly instinctive. The thing that Fred
talked about most in his lists or at the top
was like instincts, Yeah, Benjamin Morris.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Maybe, but the other guys are physical freaks.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, that I think project better to be NFL pros
because of their ability to play man coverage. Yep, all right,
I want to go seven six 'y five for me
here real quick.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Friends, Well, I'm gonna start it at seven right there,
Max seven, Yeah, Harriston, I think both us level his key.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah, Maxwell Harrison from Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Tech from Kentucky, jess a doll.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
You open his chests up, He's got to be a
chatchaw some dagar wolf inside this kid.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
You want to talk about film, jump off the film.
Watching his film is.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
Just a delight me because this guy one looks like
he enjoyed playing the game. You know, I love traits
of high IQ and instinct. He has it all like
he understands the game of football. And you know how
we talked about, uh, Trey am is not playing with
his hair on fire like, well, this guy, to me
plays with his hair on fire. And I think that's
(29:29):
the difference in this guy. So I think only if
you draft this guy, are you getting testing well topeach,
I mean top knock actually, but you also getting somebody
I think gonna bring a locker room presence because I'm
just I want to see his personality a little bit.
So I went YouTube him a little bit, seeing a
little bit of this person So now I'm also I
(29:50):
like to get people into a locker room. And when
you talk about this guy, Mike's he was one of
the best, the funniest films I watched.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, Maxel Harrison. Again, I agree he's he's a little undersized,
but he ran that. Fortunately, I don't worry about size,
and he's got decent length. He's got he's about six
foot like. He's not a small guy. He's a little
bit skinny like, but he's one hundred and eighty five
pound andy seven pounds, so not ninety.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Right, So it's all all takes and weights.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
You see him running, it's impressive. He's not afraid to tackle.
That's also good. Only played seven games last year because
of a solid shoulder injury. So a little bit concerning
the thing Fred that I wanted to bring up to
because again with Maxwell Harrison, I see a guy who
understands coverage.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yes, good in zone coverage.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yes, round combination, he gets him up.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
He gets it, Yeah, he gets it.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
The thing about Maxwell that I couldn't get my head around.
Is every hen't he doesn't play man coverage, well, he.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Go to think about it because he's technique. It's off
at times he don't. I always tell a player that
trusts his technique and leans on his technique, especially win
he gets hard and a player they say, I'm gonna
lean on my athletic ability and when you run a
four to two you can't help but say I can
do it with my speed instead of saying no, I
need to stay square and stay in his back pedal
(31:06):
until he turns his hip and dips his shoulder like
so trusting technique and this is nothing but like I said,
an NFL coach to clean up because it's a lot
to work with with this kid.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
So again, in off coverage, Maxwell Hurston is a beast
like he does a great job anticipating rock concepts, interceptions,
the man coverage stuff. And also I didn't think I
wanted to bring up Fredick because and you understand this
because you played dB versus the bigger receivers. I felt
got like a little bit quiet, you know what I'm saying.
He just he didn't have the physicality to deal with it. Again,
he's like I think twelve on my list, right, So
(31:39):
just just off the.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Customer, right.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
I just think it's just so much to work with
him that he's one of those things where dB coach
can't wait to get him in the room. Yeah, because
whatever he doesn't do well, I feel like I can clean.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Up as a coach.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And again like film's good. I actually like Kobe Bryant
film a little bit better. But I think the athletic
upside of hers.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
I would say the athlete sticks out yes on him
ever since.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Yeah, absolutely, the next guy.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
In number six, man, he could have easily been my
number three. I'm just gonna keep it one hundred like
this is how this is how.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
High I am on.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
From Carolina, East Carolina, small school guy.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Listen, my man is a dog. Listen to your dog.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
This is when I always tell people, if you really
want to know a good DV. They like probably picking
off go route. That mean you didn't get me deep
and you were faster than the receiver you got that. No,
when I see you picking off crossing routes over and
over and over again, and not only does he pick
them off routinely, like the angles that he taken our
(32:41):
special when he when he makes his mind up to
put his foot on the gas and get down hill
with that left. Oh my god, listen to me. This
kid is I put him to. I compare him to
Antonio Kramar.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Dude, love that.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
It's a great com Yes, sir, but I will say
this and this is a good thing.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yes, my man wants to tackle.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Crow was tackling when he first got a lead. Crow
was tackling when he first got lead. But you know
that lyft Crow gat the ball skiels. Yeah, when I
first out, like this is this one of his masks? Huh?
Because I'm there serious logan. This dude jumped off the tape.
So I was like, man, I would this will be
(33:31):
the third d being taken for me.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Dude, Well, we'll talk about some other guy. But he
so acl this last year. Yeah, only played three games.
He hasn't done any testing this offseason. That's the thing
that pushed me down.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
But watching his tape, he runs a four to three.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Dude, he is so I'll tell you, so this is it? Wait,
like we Shavon Revel, we love him. He does the
things I like.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
He tackles, he's physical, he plays man covered at a crazy,
high level.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
He's instinctive. A couple of things that make me a
little bit worried. The injury. Obviously, he's playing at East Carolina.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
They don't bother me.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
But against if you watch him against Michigan, Yes.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
He played ball dog a dog.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Listen to me, he got that dog getting And guess what.
I love small school guy because they play with a
chip on their shoulder from the time they get to
the NFL to the time that they leave this guy
right here, Like, as a matter of fact, I'm sorry
to you, Schauvelle. I'm sorry for the hate. I'm sorry
for the disrespect. I should replace Baron at three with
shavel That's how I feel. I mean, we reveil, That's
(34:29):
how I feel. I'm sorry, that's how I feel. I'm
starting to feel icky because I didn't do.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
It to me. I feel the same way. I wanted
to put him above some of those other guys. But
the injury, the uncertainty. You didn't see it this year
from him. Yeah that's again Fred and nine. Yeah he's
six for me too. Yeah he's exactly six. Because I
love him, but I was like, I can't put him
above healthy people that have done the process.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Yes, I can't do it, and that's what I'm saying.
But that's why he wasn't at three. I really want
to put him ahead of Baron because I just feel like,
because I'm trying to project as a pro now I
know what you're being in college, I'm saying, who's gonna
click with the pro game faster? And now that I'm
really really thinking about it in my head, he should
have been three and I should have been talking about
(35:12):
Bearing right there at six.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Yeah, okay, so let's talk about your number five real quick?
Who I also love? Yes, the cash Starks from Georgia Place.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Safety eety most definitely. Now you want to talk about
mental warfare?
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Dude?
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Could you do you like this comparison Earl Thomas. I
don't think he's that fast instinct. Yeah, you're saying, you're
saying the intelligence.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Intelligence, the size, ye, the move he fluent.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Yeah, Like when he moves it's no wasted steps.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
So I'll say this about him, like he's a big dude.
He's like six to one and a half. He's two
hundred and five, two hundred ten pounds, a big big guy. Yeah,
he plays like Nickel.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
That's what I'm telling you he minds me of Branch
from Detroit.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Dude, I think that's a better comp for me. Branch
is a little bit more physically violent. You can play nickel,
you can play posts, you can play the linebacker in
a time situation.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
We don't know where you're going to be when the
play starts.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
And he didn't play some big tame football against some
big time whie receives the big stage is not too
big for him. He's He's one of another one of
these guys I do everything good, nothing great.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
The thing that I love about him, yeah, it's I
feel like he just is a He's a.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Good football player.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You get out to the Keyston.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
And he can play man coverage, which is important to me.
He's a great tackler. Yeah, Like he's so consistent, instinctive,
and he's good at wrapping up. He gets you on
the ground, He's not afraid of it. He takes good angles.
So I know people like I wanted to put him higher,
I didn't. I'll explain why when we get to the
other person that's a little bit higher on the list.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Is he is He's just such a high floor player.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
People are criticizing him because he doesn't have a lot
of ball production, doesn't really bother me that much.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Cut the ball fouls funny, right, all right?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
But I like both those guys.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
So let's talk about my I've been through seven to
five Brock. So Jacob Parish from Kansas say, I don't
know if you watch this guy.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Did watch him, dude?
Speaker 1 (37:06):
He's a ballplayer, man, He's probably gonna play Nickel.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
He's a ball playing Jesse. But you're gonna have to
move him inside. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
So I think he's just got a great feel like
in man coverage, he's got a great feel. He matches
up against people. He plays outside corner at Kansas State.
He I think he has got a good field for
playing bigger guys. He plays through the hands, He's got
a good feel for the balls in the air. He's
physical in the run game, he can blitz, he can
play Nickel like he's just a physical Mikey Sanders reminds
me of Mikey Center.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
That's exactly. That's exactly reminds me.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
I'm just asking because when I was watching the field,
like I've seen this player before, you know, I've seen it, and.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
That that's because I love Mikey coming out.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
And that's how I feel about this guy.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
And I think you'd be talking about Jacob Parrish if
he went to a bigger if he went to Michigan
in the same way you're talking about Mikey Sander So
like he just does.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
He's he ran a four to three at the time.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
No, no, this is why I say it, Mikeyy Sanders. It's
like that new doctor Pepper Blue Beery. He just explodes
in your mouth right there watching this guy. He just
explodes off the field. He's very instinctive, don't waste motion.
That I love a dB that doesn't waste motion. He
plays angles very good and with the right coaching, he
(38:18):
could be a high end player like he was.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
He missed my list, yeah, by that much.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
And I get why because he is probably a true
nickel at the next of what he's converting.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
So there's a little bit of risk there.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
But like you said, Fred, like his footwork's tight, he's
on balance, he tackles well, he's good, and he's comfortable
in man cover. He can run with anybody, anybody, and
he's tough. He's just a tough, tough little.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Bastard, right. Yeah, Like he did close for making the
list now.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
So he's number seven for me, and then obviously number
six is Shavon Revel from East Carolina, who we talked
about for about ten minutes.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
And then this one. Fred.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Yeah, I'm really excited to get your take on this
because I did not know what to do with this guy.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
And you know what, I battled and I just said
that I was gonna move him the sixth.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Move, let's let's leave, let's let's keep the end of
suspense Baron from Texas.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Yes, I did not know what to do with him.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
That's because.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
He he is an issuv.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
You know how they make these new sports suv They
title but grab a couple of kids in there. Not
quite a sports car, if you know what I mean. Like,
he doesn't show elite quickness.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
But that's that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Just a football.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
He didn't show lead quickness, but he ran a four
to three at the time. But he don't play he
doesn't play that way.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Well, I don't say he don't play that way because
he's not really out of phase.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
But that's exactly right. All the things you're saying are true.
It's like you're in good position, you're playing man coverage. Well,
you look a little bit apathetic. Sometimes you don't look
like you're that fast, but you made this play.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
So I thought to myself, Logan, who have I seen
that plays? This just relaxed and it was Derel Reeves. Okay,
And I said, why did Dreil play like that? Because
he won so early he never worked late.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Yeah, so that's why.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
I had him at three on mine.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
And I was like, that's why he's he's winning, uh
at the first Mississippi.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Like, so I can't flag him for being that smart.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
So maybe he uses more of his IQ than he
does his athletic ability.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah, and so that's so again, let's just let's just
peel this back. He's a really interesting prospect. So I
agree with what you're saying. Like he's good in coverage,
he's got good clicking clothes. He played outside this year.
I think he probably plays nickel. And again, like I
think there's other players. I almost put Jacob Parrish above him,
but I don't think Jacob Parish gonna play outside. I
don't know if he's physical enough to play full time nickel.
Speaker 6 (40:57):
Like his timing's good, is insign he tackle well on feel,
he didn't like, Listen, this is what I tried to do.
I said, let me go down here and figure it
out through red flags. Okay, all right, because every time
I was trying to give him a green I mean
a green flag, I was just giving him green flag.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
So the effort is always there. Q was there, I
couldn't find no red flag.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yes, yeah, dude, I yeah, I don't know what.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
To tell you. It's a weird.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
It's a weird thing for me because I didn't love
him so but there's nothing wrong with him.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
So maybe I said, maybe he won so early the
challenges wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Maybe, so maybe I just need to see him get
challenged in the lead. Yeah, and so that's why I
put him.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Witherspoon was my coma.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
And again like I like with Witherspoon, that's a just
sh comp actually, because the Witherspoon had this fire, yes,
fire to it.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
He's just kind of chilling something.
Speaker 6 (41:52):
But he make plays in big game, I know.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
But that's why he's fine for me. That's why.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
But he's three from me because.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
I'm like, damn, I've seen the real Reeves play at
this methodical pace before.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Dude.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Yeah, I think that's really, you would know better than
me because you watch more film, you watch more dB
film than I do.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Okay, so let's go four and three.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
We'll save two and one for the last little bit
of conversation because that's really interesting. But let's go four
and three. You already talked about your three. Let's talk
about your four.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
All right? My four is nick em and you were
Did I say that em and Warry?
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Listen, man from South Carolina, big safety. Everyone probably remembers
him from the combine.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
I can say, come by beasts.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
He is physically mathematically at sixty three. I think he
did the bench press with twenty five times. You got
long arms four three, the closest thing on paper I've
seen to Shun Taylor.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Dude, Anywhere's twenty works twenty one?
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yes, and listen to me.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
I just watched the film over and over and I
was like, now he go to thing. He doesn't have
this shut hands. He doesn't pray with the physical prisons.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Dude of Preach Fred Preach.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
He doesn't.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
He doesn't come downhill with the bad attentions of Seun
tas How, he's wired. So maybe somebody he meets somebody
in the league that get that dog, true dog out
of him and say, you know what your ceiling is,
could be here if you take this part of your
game to the next level. But no problem with him
in coverage, plays well in space. When this hosse get
(43:21):
his head on the ball, town he dropped that thing
in the fifth gil and he is out of there,
shot out of a cannon.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
He is.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Usually these workout warriors don't play with that on film,
Like I watched John Ross Runner four to two and
to come by and never could stop in the league.
Like this kid right here, ceiling is through the roof.
He could have easily been the number one guy on
this paper right here. He is unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Dude, I'm so glad because again, when you watch him
catch the football, when you watch him run with people
in man coverage, you're like.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Who is that guy?
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Like tight ends?
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Yeah, in the league, he's having no problem with that chance.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
And he's got good man coverage in since he's got
great range of safeties, a little tightening, little tight in
the hips, so like you don't want him, like you just.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Want them to play lord, that's it.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
Yeah, So it's all there.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
The one thing I almost did I almost put him
at eight, almost put him at eight, but I was
like the physical upside too much.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
Because he's not a great tackler. Like remember watching Colin Hilton,
you watched watch Compton was a dog. Yeah, and he
take on blocks. He it runs.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, he could cover a little bit. He's not super fast,
but like that's something that you watch enough.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Db'st red.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
If you don't tackle well, like you're out of here man,
because I can't trust you, especially playing.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Safety, to make that play.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
I think, like I say, I think you get to
the league, somebody can reprogram me. I'm gonna tell you
like this, he reminded me of dB I played with
in Minnesota, and it's Darren Shop Okay, Hall of Fame
defensive back, can go find the ball, can out run
a lot.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Of people, good size, can play down here.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
But he just wasn't the most physical safety for his size.
So this, if you're telling me this the production I'm
gonna get, I'm with it. Like then what I say,
he could easily be the number one guy on my list,
like film is unbelievable. I just wanted him to be
more physical at that size and that speed.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Yeah, and I did watch the Alabama game, which was
his worst game. Yeah, and that makes you a little
bit nervous. Then you watch like Texas A and M
and he's like all over the field. Yeah, and so
it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Guy.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
He's number four for me also, just to give you
an idea, like where I'm at with him, but like
he's he's a heck of an athlete, heck of a
heck of his ceiling is all over the place.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
Is enticing, Yeah, most definitely a little a little Darwin
James in there also, Yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Darwin is more physical, That's what I'm saying. But the
echo lip profile.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Yeah, but the physical, the physicality makes If there's one
thing that makes me, it's he's not overly physical, and
it makes me nervous a little bit.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
And he's not a great tackler, So everything else is there. Yeah,
it's all there.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
That's something I'm always gonna be like if I'm in
the draft meeting, I'm like, I like him, but we
got to make sure he gets with someone who can
teach about a tackle.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
All right.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
So you said Johade barn was your three.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
My three was Malachi Starks from Georgia, who we talked
about earlier with you again. I just think his floor
is treetop high. I think he's an NFL starting player
right now. His film's good. You can play man coverage
in the more Ball production, and I can live with
that because all the things that like Nick Emmin Warry does,
like the movement skills, like Starks isn't the best mover,
(46:36):
but he.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Just every tackle I want to make an emotion.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
I'm gonna be where I got to be and I'm
gonna get you know, like, so that's where like I
just think that's a that's a football player, Johnny.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
That's my kind of guy. Right now.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
I can't wait, honestly talk about one and two with you, Yeah,
because I had I was tossed and turning about this
my man, about who is gonna go where? And so
let's start with you and then I'll tell you my.
Speaker 4 (46:59):
I know, once you seen one, you like he did it.
He did it, he did it alright. First of all,
I was starting with my two. My two is Travis Hunter,
the Heisman Trophy window from Colorado cornerback, wide receiver. I
have to look through dB eyes. When I looked through
dbiyes to me, he was the number two best corner
(47:21):
in this draft.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
So talk okay, and this this conversation makes no sense. Yes,
you're talking about you're number one. Also we're talking about
it together, yeah, Will Johnson from Michigan.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
Yes, And just for the record, my two.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Is Will Johnson from Michigan and my number one is
Travis Hunter. And it was razor thin close.
Speaker 4 (47:39):
Well, I'm gonna tell you what made it for me
was the physicality, right, Will Johnson's physicality. Will Johnson is
basically a faster version of Charles Woodson. Will Johnson at
six to two hundred pounds, it's a length, is.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
A specimen of a corner. Will Johnston.
Speaker 4 (48:00):
Right, we look at this and we see Travis Hunter,
and we'll be like, who's the most explosive guy with
the ball in his hand?
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Will jumpson? All right, listen to me, Will justin might
be a step faster.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
He's bigger, He's more equipped to be an NFL cornerback
right now than Travis h And it's aying a lot
because I compare Travis to a skin of your Champ Bailey. Right.
His ball Travis Hunter's ball skills are undeniable. He had
some of the best ball skills I've ever seen, but
I have never seen somebody put his foot in the
ground and come down here like Will just Will Justson
(48:35):
has played high end football to the peak of it.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
He's tackling.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
That's why I thought you were gonna go Will Judson
because of the physicality.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
I'll tell you why so Will Johnson when you watch
his twenty twenty three and he only played seven games
aside shir kids.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
I don't know what the injury was, but mister back
two to that. Yeah, he off ball, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Is unbelievable, Like all the stuff you talk talked about,
like what would you high football like Q. His ability
to match concepts, well, Johnson does a great.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Job of that.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
His ability to debate guys, he does a great job
of his ability to anticipate throws. Well, Johnson does a
great job of that. Like it's all like that stuff.
It was so good, And this is what I want
to ask you about. Yeah, because he's a good tackler too. Yeah,
I agree. The thing that I couldn't get past, I
couldn't find one snap him playing man coverage.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
All right, he was. They was playing this off matches.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
It's like off match zone.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
That's what they was that's what he was.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
I'm never gonna penalize a player for being xd to
do something and mastering it.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
I'm just not. But with his.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
Athletic profile and those long arms and that strength at
the point, I have no.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Doubt he could play mate. I have no doubt he
could play every coverage.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
So that was the thing I was.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
So I was watching him, and this is again like
the off ball stuff is maybe the best I've watched
last two years.
Speaker 3 (49:58):
Three years. It's really, really, really good.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
The thing that I kept coming back to is like,
and this is where I would defer to you, because
you watch TV's more than me, is how fast is he?
Because he doesn't look like he's that fast.
Speaker 4 (50:13):
I know I see a four to three easily. I
see a guy I can always tell.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Okay, this is another thing I had first three four steps,
I can tell. I had a scout tell me that
they thought he was gonna run four six? Does that
change the narrative for you? Knowing me knowing that information,
He's still number.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Nine for that now.
Speaker 4 (50:31):
I know Indianapolis is very close to Kentucky and Tennessee.
But what kind of whiskey was he drinking? I don't
see nothing. This kid probably ran a four or five
in middle school. Look, I see pure speed.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I see. I hate to say, this hurts so bad.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
I see the profile of Shun Springs when he came
out of mission.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
So bad, so bad.
Speaker 4 (50:59):
Shun was six one and a half, two hundred pounds specimen,
highest dB ever drafted. I see will when I say,
I see a faster child whistle?
Speaker 2 (51:11):
What does that tell you?
Speaker 4 (51:14):
Why Kyle Travis a skinny your chump bag, and this
kid just I'm sorry. He's God's gift to cornerback. He's
that good to me. He's better than Devil Winn Spoon.
I think he's gonna be better than Spoon.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
I think he got what is you say his weakness?
You think is speed? I see no weakness.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
So so that was my only that was only thing
is that I didn't see him play a lot of
man really any man coverage, because thinking that's not his fault.
Yeah yeah, but I'm also like man coverage is an
important part of.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
I think made me feel a lot more comfortable. He
was the best dB on the field. While Saban said
last year that Mikey Sanders Steel was, pound for pound,
the best dB in that draft, Well, this guy jumps
off on that fence.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
Yeah, And so I like him. I don't like him.
I love him.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
I'm a little concerned about like I want to see
him run because I want to I want to fill
my little formula out and do all that math stuff.
And I didn't see him play a ton of man,
and I know that can be a hard transition for
people who he's playing in an NFL defense, So like,
don't get it twisted, like he's doing high level stuff.
And again he's the second guy on my list, and
it's very, very close.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
I remembers having an argument last year about Cooper the genie.
I think I turned out to be right because you
said I don't know if he can run.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
I mean I said he wasn't gonna play outside. That's
what I said. And I was right about that too.
And you were also right about that because you thought
he was a true outside corner.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
I thought he was.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
We gonta see next year because he's gonna be asked
to do it.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
That's he could be a down fair.
Speaker 4 (52:39):
Like I said, I never penalized players when they not
actually do something, but Travis Hunter tackling in the NFL
do you not think there's gonna be a problem.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
So let's talk about Travis Hunter.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
So Travis Hunter is very raw when you watch him
play quarterback.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
He's a little all over the place.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Case at the lead peeple in the league.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
He's very handsy.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
I don't think he's that great an athlete, Like he's
a great athlete.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
That's gonna sound weird, like I don't think.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
He's great from like an explosive like like he's not
gonna run a four to two.
Speaker 3 (53:07):
I don't think he's gonna run a four four.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
I think he run a four to three, but I'm
not I wouldn't feel good today matching him up against
a J.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
Brown. Yeah, I feel good matching Will Johnson up against him.
Speaker 4 (53:19):
And that's why I got wheel number one, because when
it comes to the more physical receivers that don't need
to run past him, like, I don't know how he's
going to do with the with Mike Evans, Like I
just don't see him having a good day with Mike Evans.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
That's a great that's a great way to characterize it,
because it's it's if you think about it that way, obviously,
I think then Will Johnson again the speed slol issue.
But I will say this about Travis Hunter. He plays
stronger than he looks when he's got his hands on receivers. Yeah,
he's got a great feel for reading routes in man coverage,
miss ball skills and his ball skills and his anticipation
is crazy.
Speaker 3 (53:55):
Like again, Will Johnson from off is better.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
But his ability, like he had to play against UCLA
where he's you know, they're running the outside, go there,
running the five yard out. He acts like he's in
man coverage, puts his foot.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
In the ground, remember the play and go get.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
It, and and so that that playmaking ability is special.
And I'm also banking on this to friend a little bit.
And this is this is where you get hurt. So
I'm gonna be mad at myself because I tell other
people not to do this. Is I think when he
gets with a coach and he's playing dB full time, Yeah,
I think he's gonna be all right, is what I think.
(54:28):
I think he'll be alright because they don't think he's
not a bad tackle. He's not like a super he's
not like gonna kill you, but like he's he's willing.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Well he go to think about it. You got two
type of tackles. You got a hitter.
Speaker 4 (54:39):
Yeah, and that's somebody that's gonna pose a wheel on
you and you got to tackle it.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
I'm just trying to get you to the ground.
Speaker 3 (54:45):
I think he's.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
Most definitely a tackler.
Speaker 4 (54:47):
I just don't know is he going to be a
tackler in the third quarter of five minutes?
Speaker 3 (54:52):
A great question. It's a great question.
Speaker 4 (54:54):
And this is why I said, who's the most complete dB,
not the complete football player?
Speaker 2 (54:59):
And the complete dB was real Junts.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Yeah, and everything you Fred said I agree with, except
I'm worried. I'm a little bit more dubious about They
didn't see him play man coverage. Ford thinks you can coach.
I'm gonna defer to Fred and his overall speed. Travis
Hunter is raw, he's but he's competitive as all out door.
He's hyper competitive. His ball steals are excellent.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Technician, I gotta need more technique from him.
Speaker 4 (55:25):
And I also fear how's he gonna fare against the
bigger t Higgins of the world. How is he gonna
fare against size and strength?
Speaker 1 (55:35):
And obviously there are one and two, so they're both
really good and we feel really good about him.
Speaker 4 (55:38):
But like no, no at the league comes with dot flaws.
That's what I want you all to know. It ain't
been many perfect guys to come out to draft.
Speaker 5 (55:48):
All Right, I'm gonna ask you a couple more questions
about Travis Hunter because he's one of the hottest topics
right in this draft class. So is he gonna play
wide receiver and cornerback in the league?
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Can you do it?
Speaker 5 (56:00):
Will he do it?
Speaker 2 (56:00):
I think he has to master the cornerback first.
Speaker 4 (56:03):
I think right now, if I was drafting him, I
got him picked as my number two corner in the draft.
If I was drafting him as a wide receiver, he'll
probably be like my number five or six, right, So
he's better at the corner position. I need you to
master this one before I give you permission to go
learn another playbook. I need you to master the nuance
of the cornerback position to tackling, taking on screens, taking
(56:24):
on talk suites. I need you to master this side
before I give you permission to go do the other side.
But if he's with a terrible team like a New
England Patriots or something, they're going to experiment, whynot.
Speaker 3 (56:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (56:38):
I think for me it's I actually like this film
better at dB honestly than I did a receiver. Like
I think he's more raw there. And it's hard. It's
really hard watching this film because he does kind of
pay himself.
Speaker 3 (56:49):
You know, he's off playing hard all the time.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
And then again he's playing one hundred and fifty snaps,
so like that's.
Speaker 3 (56:54):
Not like a knock on him.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
It's just like it's like you're you're hoping I'm projecting
a little bit to like when he gets to the league,
he'll be playing one spot, he'll be better coached. And again,
just that dog competitor, that ball skill stuff comes out,
and I do think it's a little bit more valuable
at dB, especially with the way he plays the football.
He plays the football crazy man.
Speaker 4 (57:14):
Yeah, But I think if he walks in any wide
receiver room right now in the league, he had bits
the number three or four receiver.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
But like, I don't see him as a number two.
Speaker 4 (57:23):
Like if he came on this team right now, he
would not beat in the top two receiver.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
I see.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
That's the thing that's hard for me with the receiver
thing is like he does the traits are there, his change,
the direction is there, the way he tracks the ball.
Speaker 2 (57:36):
Is there is it any wide receiver.
Speaker 4 (57:38):
He reminds you of prison pass that he plays like
I got you one Ted gain.
Speaker 2 (57:44):
He reminded me of Ted again with not the high
end speed.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
He's better that he's better. He catches the football better
than Ted. And I think he's got a better change
direction than Ted. So and as we've talked about, those
things are really important and valuable. Like for me, he
was the second rode receiver after touch up McMillan. Yeah,
and so he's just there's something about the athlete that
it's hard for me to overlook. He's just so special
and unique. And the way he tacks the football with
(58:07):
his hands, you've seen it in the dB film Man
Like Yeah, he can torts and finds a way to
make these.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
Crazy plays, kind of like George Pickings when it comes
to I like that.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
Actually that's a pretty good comp like a raw route runner.
But like you just at tracked the ball.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
All right.
Speaker 5 (58:22):
So, Fred, let's say you're a GM for whatever and
you're you're picking in the top all right, is Travis
Hunter on your board? Because one of the one of the.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
Top three you say, I'm in the top three.
Speaker 5 (58:39):
Top five like, where are you picking him? Where are
you feeling comfortable enough to pick him? And the reason
I'm asking is because a lot of the big name
draft analysts that do this, and the biggest name had
him going number three overall. But if he's not your
number one corner, he's your number five wive receiver. You
don't think he's playing both ways? Why is he going
up so high? Just as a compared he would be
(59:01):
tied with one of the highest draft of DB's.
Speaker 4 (59:04):
Yeah, like I say, Sean Spring was number three and
Jeff Okuda was number three, like Eric Stingly, That's.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
What I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (59:14):
Their film was.
Speaker 4 (59:15):
Their Stingley film blows his film away? I'm sorry, right,
So he's not these guys. The fourth overall was a
Sauce Gardner. Fifth, Devin Willis, Spion Jaden and Ramsey, Patrick Peterson, Airberry,
Sean Taylor went there, there are all DB's, So I'm
trading down, so you're not take you where do you
feel comfortable? I feel comfortable taking him around seven, around
(59:37):
seven to ten. Yeah, that's where I would take him at.
And I would come in saying what do like? The
thing is, what's our plan for him? Like we got
to have a legit plan for him because I do
not want to put too much on his plate. And
I think that could be the worst thing they could
actually do with this kid is try to double spoon
(59:57):
feed him from the door.
Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
I think he's gonna fail at both positions.
Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
If they try to do that, he's going to fail
it both because he can go on the defensive side
and get his confidence to go back to the offensive
side and them dB he's he's a pro dB and
they gonna take his lunch.
Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
Yeah, I think, uh, I think that's a great point.
Like it's like a dB.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
I'd probably take him at ten at the receiver, I'd
probably take him at fifteen, yeah, fourteen fifty like that,
Like he's a good player, Like I'm not.
Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
This is gonna sound like you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Gotta put both players to get Yeah, he is one.
Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
He's an excellent player. But like if you just said, hey,
I'm drafting a dB.
Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
Yeah he's maybe ten, eleven whatever, you know what I mean.
But he's not he's not that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
He's not this guy that we've seen these like other
high level prospects at the position. And he's a good receiver,
but like there's risk associated with it, and usually in
the draft about mitigating risk. And I think I said
this to you, Jason, like, maybe you're mitigating risk because
he can play both.
Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
But I think Fred bought a probably a great point.
Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
If you force feed him both things, he's I think
he's for sure gonna fail because it's just so much
more challenging at the NFL level. The schemes are more complicated,
the physicality is more intense, the seasons longer, like he's
just gonna get beat up.
Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
And let me ask you this. If I told you
he got drafted, we turned the page. He got drafted
to the Tennessee Tides with the Mayonnaise Man will live.
Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Yeah, right, do we see him?
Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
Because that's a team that would say we gotta say tickets,
we need you to play both.
Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
They'll force feed him. Now.
Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
If he goes to New England with Drake may yeah,
maybe you got a shot. Maybe maybe you got a
shot now. So sometimes it ain't just about the player,
it's about the destination.
Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
And if you at the top of the draft, you
already know you're going to a terrible team.
Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Yeah. And I think, yeah, man, And I.
Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
Think it's just the way he tackles and the way
he plays like he's not refined like you watch those
other guys like they're more physical, they're more And.
Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
That's why I had to take wheel jes because when
he just more refined in every aspect of dB.
Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Yep, no, I agree, man, dude, Fred, this was a
lot of fun mantime.
Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Many time I can prove you wrong, Professor, I am
with it.
Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
Well, I would defer to you on this.
Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
You've got a really good feel for for defensive back play,
obviously because you were a really good player in your
time here, obviously. So that's gonna do it for today show.
Please make sure you're liking to the subscriber ever, get
your podcasts and uh that's it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
H
On today's episode of Take of the Draft podcast, Fred
smoot is our special guest.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
At list top Cup of Special List.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
That's right, we're talking safeties, cornerbacks, all the dbs. Fred
gives you what he's looking for when he's watching film.
We talked Travis Hunter wide receiver dB and then number
Fred's number one defensive back might surprise you.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
It all starts right now.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Welcome Innute Tick of the Draft Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I'm Logan Paulson here with just the guy Jason, and
today is a special day because we have the mouth
of the South, Fred smoot and we're here talking defensive backs.
Before we get into that, make sure you leave a
comment makes you like him, subscribe. Those comments really help
us kind of dictate future content. Let us know what
you like, let us know what you don't like. But
now that that housekeeping is taken care of.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Fred Smootie, Now he got comedy this time of year.
What do I tell you when I get it to
my zine? All right, when I get into this this
draft process, when the computer store what to work and
still have to compute, I go by smoothy mcshae moody.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I want to write that down smoothie mix shade. I
thought was uh Fred Kuiper.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
And you know, the one thing about Kayper is he's
just like the local weather man. Uh he's wrong most
of the time, and nobody seems to care.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
So, uh, Jason, you got anything you want to say?
Speaker 5 (01:24):
What I wanted to say is that Fred is our
favorite guest on this show because you and him get
into it about who is the real draft guru for
a command center, right, Fred definitely thinks it's him. Logan,
You're like, it's clearly men that if anybody listened to
our podcast last year, we did an episode that we're
going to do another one this year, but last year's
it was called Guaranteed Ballers, and each one of you
(01:46):
drafted six guys that you were like, they're going to
guarantee ball out this upcoming year.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Well, guess what. The year's over. We saw how they did.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I think not.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Here's what you guys put up on the line, do
you reader, I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Okay, nope, nope.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
One of you had to get on a knee and
say to the other you are the true draft guru
and I personally am nothing and nothing. That's what you
had to do. So here's what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Guys, I think interrupt, but I think two of my
guys got hurt last year.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
They got nothing to do, all right, So here's what
we're gonna I've already talked to producers of our other shows,
and this feels like something needs to be.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
So one our Command Center, the one right before the draft.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Reveal the results right before right.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
It will be on that show. The commandser at least
releases right before the drift April or something or another. Right,
we will reveal it live on Command Center, and we
will have either Fred or Logan getting down on one
knee bring and they're saying you, so, I'm not going
to tell you the results yet. I find out why.
(03:05):
So everybody needs a tune into that, and we're gonna
do that. We're going to do this again too. Fred
you already said he'll come back on for one of
our next pots. We'll do guarantee draft ballers for the
next year, and we'll have to find another penalty for
getting that wrong this time. But I already know the results.
I'm super exer I'm telling you, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It's okay, So let's get it.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
I'm gonna get out of here because I don't know
anything at all, being just a guy about DB's and
we have one of the best to ever put on
the Burgundy and gold at dB here with us, Fred Smoot.
So he's going to break it down with you, Logan
the draft guru, Right.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
No, at least for the time being super conflict.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Myself the draft guru. He's the draft professor. Gotcha, Yeah,
draft that's a great take it away.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Okay, so let's see, let's get into defensive backs and
so let's just super high level friend. Yeah, what are
some things We're going to talk about some definitions here
in a second, but let's start trades.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
You're looking for a DV just super high light rights.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
First of all, I'm looking for high football IQ. Everybody
wants to go first into the athletic ability. You wouldn't
You wouldn't be here if you want athlete, all right,
I'm looking for a high IQ. That means can I
play all coverages? Can I make my plays within the coverage?
And can I manipulate players to do what I want
them to do?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Right?
Speaker 4 (04:26):
So I'm looking for guys that then played a lot
of downs a lot of snaps. Hopefully guys thatn't line
up left right inside outside show me some versatility. So
I'm also looking for length. I love length, and sometimes
length come in different ways. Sometimes you can get a
fivelem dude with a six three wingspan, and that length
proves itself through un length and reach. I just think
(04:48):
this get out of trouble ability right there. It gives
you the ability when you do make a bad decision,
It helps you get out.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Of trouble having that length.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
And to me, it stops the number one route that
people like to go, and it's to go route.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
You've got long ums.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
It kind of prohibits people from running go routes on you.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
So I also love lint. I also love.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Quick twitch and sticky people. And the quick twitch is
the ability to go from zero to one hundred. It's
like driving a corvette. You want to know what the
corvette does in the ten to twenty and thirty seconds,
all right, And I want guy that can move in
a box, so that means quicker than fat sometime, because
I think your plays are going to be made in
(05:29):
a box than it is in a hundred year a
field most of the time.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, So let's talk about a couple things. Let's double
click on it real quick. So, like the high football
like Q one, I think is really really interesting because
it's something that's incredibly important for corner, probably more so
than maybe linebacker maybe is more important, but it's incredibly
important for defensive back. On when you're watching film, how
do you determine whether someone's got good football? Like, I
know you mentioned that line up in multiple spots. I
(05:53):
think that's a good way. Is there anything else you're
looking for?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Well?
Speaker 4 (05:56):
To see them play route combinations? Anticipation. That's telling me. One,
you study because you don't jump routes that you haven't
studied like two. This telling me you taking what you
studied on film and you're taking it to the field.
So not only are your study of but you trust
what you study and you also trust what you see.
If you line up through yours outside the numbers and
(06:18):
the slot guys right there out in the numbers, he's
gonna take me outside. Once I see the slot guy
go out, I mean go outside, I'm going inside regardless.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, this is the route combination.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It's so interesting looking at your description of you're listening
to your description of what you're looking for. Then looking
at your list, and I'm like, all the guys on
your list really fit your vision, fits your ranking at
a high level. So I really can't wait to talk
about that. So let's talk about a couple term like definition,
clarification things. So for me with a DV, let's just
get out of the way. I also look for length.
(06:48):
I look for kind of awareness. I look for like
a competitive toughness. I probably value that more than you.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I would say, no, no, I love a competitor.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Like the one thing about being a competitive what it
does is it's telling me, no matter what happens in
this game, good bad in between, you're gonna keep competing
and you have to be that way because you're gonna
get burned in the NFL. So competitor goes very high
on my list cause this mentality that's part of the
coneback's mentality.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I got to have that, but go I got to
have a dog.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
And I also look and I also and we friend
and I have talked about this before, and this is
one area where we I don't think we differ on
but I probably value it more than you. Is I
need to see like a physical courage I need to
see a guy who's willing to tackle put his face
in there. Just that to me, because like, ultimately, football
is a physical game. Yeah, and you got to show
me you can do it.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
So that's one thing.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
That's one thing that I, again, I value pretty heavily.
So those are some things that I'm looking at. I
agree with Fred. The situational awareness stuff is so important
for corner. Yeah, you just got to be smart down.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
It's where we on the field, fifty yard line. It's
time for them to throw go routes. Just knowing that
the small stuff that you should know automatically. If it's
three by one and I'm on the back side, I'm
probably gonna get attacked.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Like just understanding the game awareness.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, no one.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So Okay, that's kind of high level stuff and I
think that's all really good. And there's something all subjective
about all these things and that's why the drafts so hard.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
But let's talk about these terms. Are you're familiar?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So one of the terms that I hear thrown around
a lot, and Fred mentioned it with the short area
quickness stuff, which is also very important, is the clicking
closed stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
You hear that term all the time.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
You're listening to any draft analyst talk about TV there
like he's got great clicking clothes, Yes, Fred, Yes, what
is that?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
That's seeing it and going getting it?
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Like, if you want me to put it in lameish terms,
he closes to the ball and he takes the air
out of it. He understands angles. I see most people
they can see something, but they take the wrong angle
to go make the play like they having the ability
to close is one thing is being quick. Two things
is believing what you see. Three things is going getting it.
(08:41):
And this has got to be tenth of a second. Now,
this is not a two second thing. Like you have
to close this gap very quickly, and some guys are
better at it than other guys. This is what I
love about a guy like Will Johnson in this group,
you're talking about clicking and closing. This guy right here,
and that's why I got him as the best he
be in his class. I know they gonna shine a
lot of people, but I'm sorry he is.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And we're definitely going to talk about that more in detail.
And you know, again who's my number one and where
the rest of the list falls. But I also think
clicking clothes to me is like when I see that,
there's that there's the recognition, there's the mental element of it,
but there's also the physical element where you see the footwork.
Is the footwork tight? Are they getting kind of off balance?
Another guy really high on this list for both of us,
(09:23):
that is a little bit all over the place with
the footwork, right, Can that get cleaned up? Because at
the NFL level, those missteps, those.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Gotta be like you gotta be very feeline like in
the feelane always laying on his feet. And one thing
about it is the quick twitch and it are you
taking a t step?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Like? What how are you getting there?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Are you balance?
Speaker 4 (09:44):
As a defensive beat coach, I can clean up you,
I can make you a technician, but I got to
have something to work with.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I think that's a great that's a great differentiator there,
all right. The other one that if people say all
the time is he's sticky in coverage. Now this can
me in my opinion, be a bad thing. It can
be a good thing.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Now that's a different between me and sticky and handsy.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yes, yes, they are two different things.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Sticky mean you're never floating, You're never too far away
from your guy. No matter what route he runs, Like
if he's running that post, I'm right here on his
back hip he's running that dig route. Because we got
a couple of guys in this draft that they play
over and under routs better than any corners I've seen
in a couple of years, Like listens Reveale Junior does
(10:27):
that at a high level.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
So we're gonna talk about I'm chopping.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
They got me going because the more and more I
started to study this group, I was like, my god,
it's something literally game changes. Then I start to write down, Mike,
who I'm comparing them to, because I think everybody got
a little bit of somebody we have seen already.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And I just I looked at it.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I like, I can't keep writing these bowlers, Like why
am I keep saying Pro Bowl?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And then I said, maybe in this group is a
group that has these type guys.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
No, I think that's that's one hundred percent right. So sticky, proximity, handsy.
The thing about all these college and bess are all
a little bit handsy. And so what I remember that
is there's no illegal contact downfield. Yeah, right, so they
tend to be a little bit more pully, a little
bit more gravvy. There's a guy that is very high
on my list that I almost didn't put there because
he's so handsy. But I think that's something like I'm
(11:19):
hoping that that they can get cleaned up at the
next level.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Yeah, and that's where the coaching comes in. That's where
the coaching comes in at and the veterance that's on
the team, because you learn a lot from the veterans.
Like everybody won't have a treasure trove of knowledge like
I had with Dion sanders Dale Green and Champ Bailey.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I basically walked into DBU.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah all right. And then the last one, which I
think is very important but not as important as people
think it is, is closing speed.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Well, you only need closing speed when you're getting yourself
in trouble, when you're technically not there early.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Like they always say, either dB, you're gonna win early?
Are you gonna win late?
Speaker 4 (11:56):
You only need to strove closing speed when you when
you then lost. All right, closing speed comes when you
recognize when recognition kicks in and I got to go
get this out route like he go to different between college.
You could be you could be just better than somebody
where I can break up this slant route, and then
in the league you learn I have to tackle this
(12:17):
slant route right, So it's a different because of the
aptalytic ability of the guys on the other side. So
these are the small thing that you learn from closing speed.
Closing speed is the ability to get out of trouble.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, I like it, and they think about it like
closing to make the tackle or closing on a slant
or you're in off coverage and you got to rally
to a hitch like that's kind of what we're talking about.
So now I think the moment we've all been waiting
for is this top ten quarterbacks list, And so we're
gonna do is We're gonna stop start at ten, go
to one. We've got a couple of names that are
floating around that are a little bit different, so we're excited.
(12:50):
I guess, Fred, why don't you give me your ten
to ten to eight and then I'll give you my
ten day we can talk about it.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
We're going to start with Trey Amos from O Me reason.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
You know, I don't like too much from Old Miseries,
but they do JJ Pergeze, they big Dtac, I do
like him, but uh, trade is first of all, competitor,
I'm gonna say that. And we talked about being a competitor. Two,
he's played against high notch competition.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
He's been in a bunch of different schools.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, he's traveled.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
He understands like when I look at some DB's and
it's a couple of DB's on my list that if
you look at them mathematically and chrammatically and how they
test it, they not test the best. But what they
do is they what I call a jack of all trades.
They're not grated no one thing, but they're good at
a lot. And Trey ain't is epitomizes that my flaws
(13:43):
are minimal, but my great things are minimal, if you
know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Dude, I kind of feel the same way. So he's
just off my list. So he would have been like
eleven or twelve for me. And we'll talk about some
other guys that just didn't quite make it, but he's
one of them. And he's the guy that I felt
like was was line, like he was like, you know,
he was in the right position. I felt like some
of his clicking clothes stuff was a little bit sluggish, right,
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
A little bit off balance, right, I didn't feel nothing.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
You can clean up though, yes, And.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
That's why I would defer to you.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Like, that's why I'm watching him, like he's a little
off bounds, he's a little bit sluggish. His immediate reaction
isn't there. Yeah, he tracks the ball really well. Yeah,
he sees the ball well. The other thing that bugged
me about him is like, there wasn't this urgency to
the football.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
He's kind of like a hidden confidence. I get there.
When I get there, I totally understand.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
But also he showed me why receiver traits and that's
what I'd like to see in my BBS because you
got two type of cornerbacks. You got your cornerbacks that
used to play running back and you got your cornerbacks
that used to play wide receiver.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I tend to go with the why receive.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
A group because now you think like a wide receiver
aka Mikey Sanders Steele. I'm a guy that used to
play wide receiving, so now I'm going to do at
the cornerback. Was this year's play a more physical brand
of why I receive? And think about him as a
a NI Son ultimate. I'm telling you I can put
two hundred thousand miles on it in dependable. Look for
(15:09):
him to get drafted to a play a parental playoff
team like a Pittsburgh stealer, and then he becomes a
ten year of Pittsburgh stealer. He's that type of guy.
Will he ever make it to All pro status? I'm
not saying that, but could he be a Pro Bowl
of one or two years on the team that's winning.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
I think he could.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, And I think you know, he's a big guy.
He's about six one. He's like I think he's six
and three quarters. If I found got long arm, he
was one of the bigger guys. Ran a four four
at the COMBA. He's got some juice, man. And again
like this is not to me. There was just that
that that lack of urgency always makes me a little
bit nervous.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Who's your ninth guy?
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Fro Exavier Wise now notre dame.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Listen, safety for safety.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
For another dame?
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Do you pity me of what we just talked about?
Good at everything, great at nothing but ball. I Q
through the roof, I see it through his plane.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
He's a fun he's so I'm really glad you put
him on here. He's a really fun player.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
To I've been saying when I watched him, he jumps
off the screen and when I watched DB's, especially when
it's safety. Do I ever see you just fly into
the screen? Do I see you do that on downhill runs?
Do I see you do that on slint routes? Do
I see you do that on tight ends? This anticipation,
this physicality, that understanding my assignment. This is an assignment based, dude,
(16:28):
This is a coach's dream. Listen, when a coach get
a guy like Exavier, watch you say here, go to playbook,
can't wait to see you at practice themorrow, and you
worry about nothing because you know the interlactor is there
and you know professionalism.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
This is what this guy's about.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
So I don't disagree that anything you said. The one.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
He's a he's a heck of a ball player, man
like he gets he's around the football, always balls out,
he's recovering fumbles, he gets interceptions. He's a tough he's
a he's a very sound, competent tackler, all the things
you want to see. I think he's better near the
line of scrimmage in the post. The one thing I
have on him, the one thing that really kind of
made me nervous. I think he's a subpar athlete, and
(17:08):
subpar athletes in the NFL at dB specifically, yeah, tend
not to figure it out right.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
I would not say that because I played with a
lot of safeties that was never the greatest athlete, but
they was Ryan Clark, for instance.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
But I think think about Ryan for example, was Ryan
was a psycho coming towards the line of scrimma.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
This guy's not that.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
And then when you watch him the post, he doesn't
cover the same kind of ground.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I think he's a bad angle steam And I.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Think it's that's that's the thing though, But also I
think it's also I seen him kind of lay away
from one guy that's on your list, and Benjamin Morrison.
I've seen him sometime you go away from player that
you don't worry about, and I would see him lean
to the other side sometimes because this way he figured
the ball was going. So I see him trying to
play the mental game inside the game. But when I
(17:58):
say a pros pro and the reason I out of
Ryan Clark anybody that played with ryand Clark could tell you.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Had never met a better pro.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
You had never met a guy that literally the chicks
all the boxes besize I'm not the greatest athlete.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And again Ryan was special in terms of physical violence. Again, like,
this guy is a fun football he's a football players
football player. But I just worry that the angle thing
bothers me a little bit. The lack of top shelf athleticism.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
I think early on in his career he a package guy.
He'll be a part of and then he can hopefully
turn into the player that he was in college.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Okay, and this so number eight I'm really excited for
you to talking about because I actually in my breakdown
I wrote this is a young Fred Smooth.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
So and get what in my breakdown is I got
ritten right here in my iPhone three when I first
watched him play first team jumped off the screen.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
He's a competitor.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Yeah, and he ain't scared to yeap and he is
just long is you can see and he makes listen.
I should put the signature right there, Fred Smooth. Like,
I can't wait to watch the DRE because you know
they always do comps. They'll probably have to comfort to
I'm sorry. He plays with an intensity, he plays with
a swagger.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
He makes plays too.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Now, like we're not just talking about got it because
the one thing I don't like is hollow dB Like
I need to see some numbers. I need to see
you make an impact on the game. This guy makes
an impact on the game. Allah, Fred smooth, two point zero.
That's what you got. He's gonna get the ball back.
He ain't scared to throw it in there and tackle.
He'll be good and special teams from the door. This guy, right,
(19:40):
he'll make slaves.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
And so you're watching versus Louisville playing off coverage man,
his ability to read kind of bait the quarterback they're
running like a smash concepts a five yard hitch corner
behind you. Yeah, he intentionally hugs the hitch knowing I'm
jetting me.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, and he jets back. Makes a great player in
the football.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
He's competitive in man coverage at times, a little handsy,
but in college member, all these guys are little bit here.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
I think he's competent in run support.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
There's times on screens and stuff where he gets a
little bit, but like he's gonna fit his gap and
do what he's supposed to do. The Again, he wasn't
on my list. And this is again one of those
things that the analytics snurd in me does not like
about the drafts because he's a good football player. But
usually outside corners who runs slower than four or five
are not successful long term outside So he ran a
(20:26):
four five three four five four at the combine.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
That's legit time.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Plays faster, and that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
He's a good play like him.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
These So these two guys right here, And I'm glad
that's why we're having you on, yeah, because I get
a caught up in the draft stuff. You said, I'm
a professor, right, I got my math, my numbers, my formulas.
So eight and nine or nine to eight are good
football players, objectively good football players. They're tough, they're competitive,
they're what you want on the team. I worry about
physical threshold here a little bit, and I think that's
just to give you a different perspective.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I'm more of a guru and glaru goes with fields.
It goes with fields.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Hey do me a favor. Are who are we talking
about here?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
So this is this is Kobe Bryant Kobe Bryant from
Kansas dB plays outside corner.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, good football player.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I think he's and he's basically he's a Frenchman.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
I think he's going to be a better pro than
he is A he was a college player.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I like him a lot. Again, like the tape, the
tape is the tape. Yeah it's to me, it's the
athletic threshold.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
There is not a long history.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Just like with offensive lineman tackles with under thirty two
in charms, they tend not to play outside and maybe
you feel like you could move him in the nickel.
I don't know if he's got that skill set. It's
a different skill set.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
I think you would survive more outside because he knows
how to play the high i Q game.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
He understands.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
He reminds me a lot of Sale Madison also, and
how he plays his out man like. He has some
qualities and that's what I want. His DNA says, I
can survive. Runda Barber ran a four five forty. He's
a he's a nickel, but he was a nickel that
played outside. He only played nickel when they when they
went into the die package out of nickel package. But
(21:59):
other than that run day he played outside and it
survive wheel.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah, he's a fun guy to watch.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
He's a little again, Like I know, people compare like
I've seen National comps to him to like Emmanuel Forbes.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
He's much more physical.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
No, he plays strong, going at the top of the
route all of day.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
And his techniques better, like we talked about that clicking codes.
Like his footwork's really tight. He's very balanced. He's a
heck of a heck of a football player. Sorry, now
I'm gonna give you my ten nine eight and we'll
do a little analysis on each one.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
So I'm gonna go.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
This one was tough for me. Yeah, I didn't want
to put him on here, but I couldn't resist.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Like what one thing forced you to put him on?
Speaker 1 (22:31):
I'll talk to you about hi right now. So Darren Porter,
cornerback Iowa State. If you're a Commander's fan, I'm sure
you've heard about him. He's six two and a half,
he's two hundred pounds. He ran up four to two
eight at the combine, got a forty inch vertical. He
had the fastest three cone. Like, dude's a physical freak.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And it scares me. He's been in doesn't match out
of task.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
So he's been in college for six years.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah, this is his first year playing dB and physically
you can do anything you want. Yeah, I agree with you.
The film is not always there. The thing that got
me on there is when I looked at the three cone,
when I looked at the forty, when I looked at
the vertical, and he did the head. There was a
dig he was playing. I forget which team they were playing.
There was a dig route and he got himself in
bad position. Guy's running a dig and his ability to
(23:17):
turn his hips drive the dig.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, close the window. I'm like this, dude, someone's gonna
look at this guy.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
It's going to be a team that can has the chance. Yes, right,
And I hate to say it, I'm about to throw
up in my mouth. Sounds like something had Roseman to do.
Get this guy, draft this guy stashing for two years,
teach him how to play the cornerback position, how to
save the position, and before you know it, he's out
there like he has all the miserables. Yeah, and I
(23:46):
see this all the time. But these guys has this
miserable but don't have the fund.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
And again I don't disagree with what Fred said, Like
he's got some good plays, he got some flash plays,
but it's a little inconsistent.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
It's the routine play. He's there.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
That's the thing is I don't I'm not there with
it right, But I just think you look at the athlete,
you look at the physicality, you look at the length.
He had three inch arms, and he's like an offensive
lineman out there, like and when you look at it
and pressed situations with hands on receivers, I'm like, this
dude can cover anybody.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
But he's not always balanced. His footwork's not always great.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
So for me again, I just was like, and I
think the other thing I'll say about him is I
think there's a want to there that I submitt you
that I.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Like, you know, I think you at the lead over IQ,
and I think I'm IQ.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
This is the only one for me that I was like,
this is this is I am acknowledging, Like this is a.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Hail Mary for me.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I In terms of football player film, I like Kobe
Bryant better. I like Trey Amos better on film. But
I just thought, like, if you're looking upside here because
you're projecting, there's not a player in this class that
has more upside this I think we see him the
same way. I just rated him a little bit differently.
But if the situation is right and you can develop him,
(25:00):
I think he'd be a great I did.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Say it if I'm a dB coach, in which if
you a dB coach, your job he is on the line.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I'm taking Kobe Bryant because.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
He's he's ready, He's he's more developed.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
But if you if you can sit for a year
and understand what you're going to get out of him,
he's an older prospect when you're playing dB. Just thought
i'd throw that name in there. The next one, number
nine for me is Benjamin Morrison from Notre Dame, cornerback
outside player, coming off a hip surgery. This is his
second hip surgery since he's been in college. He only
played five games I think five games in college show guys.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
On this list.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
The thing about him is, I think he's very consistent. Yeah,
I think he plays good man coverage. I think he's
got a solid fielding zone. But the thing that really
sold me was his ability to play man like he.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
In his size.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Dude, Liz, be honest, he is a Dan Queen's delight.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I'm talking. But he's sixty three.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
No, he's he's six to one. I think I think
he measured its six and five eightsps just under it.
But he big guy, long arm Lon long long long.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Arms, Like you say, Chris man Delight, like he he
understands how to get it done.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Are you worried about a dB with two heel pens?
Speaker 4 (26:11):
This was what This was hard for me because why
he didn't make my least there's a dude.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
I'm worried about it.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
But then I look at the other guys on this
list and we'll talk about that when we get there.
There's a lot of guys that were really banged up
in this class, like that are good football players banged up?
And I just said, like based on the film, like
when he's playing, I don't know anything about the medical,
I don't know anything. We don't know anything about the
medical right now. But he is a guy that to
me really stuck out in a in a positive way
from the competitor.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
The ability to play it. Again, like we didn't talk
about this, we were talking about trace.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I'm looking for in dB because of how much man
people play in the NFL I really value man coverage
traits and you think the risk is worth the reward.
I don't know anything about the medical. I don't know
anything about the medical. That's all I'm saying. But like
you see it right, his ability to click and close,
play game, he can tackle, he takes plays in big games.
He covered dude, he went one on one. They put
(27:01):
him one on one with Marvin Errison Junior. Yeah, most
definitely last year and he locked him down. Yeah, so
he is a he's a football player. I like him
a lot, but again, the injury history is really tough there,
and I think he would make a lot of sense
based on what I just said. The man covers thing
A zari A. Thomas from Florida State talk about big dude. Now,
he's like six one and a half. He's got long arms,
thirty two inch arms. He's a big dude. He's two
(27:23):
hundred and five pounds. He's physical outdoors. He's got that
dog in front. He's got that dog.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
When I think of him, I just think of a
football play. Yeah, dude, like football player. I could probably
end up at safety before my career. Thover, Like I
am a football player.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
He's one of them. Coach. What you need me to do,
I've got.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
And again the reason he's lower on my list because
I think a lot of people say, oh, I've heard
he's going to be in the first round. I heard
he's going to be the fourth to be. He's not
the fourth one.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
BB.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I don't know because he doesn't. There's zero zone coverage
on his tape.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I can say they didn't x him to do it.
I can't get may it.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
And so you watch him at the Senior Bowl. He
does a great job and man situations, locking everybody down.
Like he's big, he's physically, he's long. He understands how
to play press, he understands how to play man, just period.
He is a violent tackler, which I love. Like he
had sixty eight tackles this year. Yeah for a receiver
or corn Yeah, which is insane. So like, again, my
(28:18):
guy's different from Fred, Darren Porter obviously upside play, but
Benjamin Morris the man coverage as Ari Thomas de man
and man coverage and the physicality in the run game.
They are again not overly instinctive. The thing that Fred
talked about most in his lists or at the top
was like instincts, Yeah, Benjamin Morris.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Maybe, but the other guys are physical freaks.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, that I think project better to be NFL pros
because of their ability to play man coverage. Yep, all right,
I want to go seven six 'y five for me
here real quick.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Friends, Well, I'm gonna start it at seven right there,
Max seven, Yeah, Harriston, I think both us level his key.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah, Maxwell Harrison from Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Tech from Kentucky, jess a doll.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
You open his chests up, He's got to be a
chatchaw some dagar wolf inside this kid.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
You want to talk about film, jump off the film.
Watching his film is.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
Just a delight me because this guy one looks like
he enjoyed playing the game. You know, I love traits
of high IQ and instinct. He has it all like
he understands the game of football. And you know how
we talked about, uh, Trey am is not playing with
his hair on fire like, well, this guy, to me
plays with his hair on fire. And I think that's
(29:29):
the difference in this guy. So I think only if
you draft this guy, are you getting testing well topeach,
I mean top knock actually, but you also getting somebody
I think gonna bring a locker room presence because I'm
just I want to see his personality a little bit.
So I went YouTube him a little bit, seeing a
little bit of this person So now I'm also I
(29:50):
like to get people into a locker room. And when
you talk about this guy, Mike's he was one of
the best, the funniest films I watched.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, Maxel Harrison. Again, I agree he's he's a little undersized,
but he ran that. Fortunately, I don't worry about size,
and he's got decent length. He's got he's about six
foot like. He's not a small guy. He's a little
bit skinny like, but he's one hundred and eighty five
pound andy seven pounds, so not ninety.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Right, So it's all all takes and weights.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
You see him running, it's impressive. He's not afraid to tackle.
That's also good. Only played seven games last year because
of a solid shoulder injury. So a little bit concerning
the thing Fred that I wanted to bring up to
because again with Maxwell Harrison, I see a guy who
understands coverage.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yes, good in zone coverage.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yes, round combination, he gets him up.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
He gets it, Yeah, he gets it.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
The thing about Maxwell that I couldn't get my head around.
Is every hen't he doesn't play man coverage, well, he.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Go to think about it because he's technique. It's off
at times he don't. I always tell a player that
trusts his technique and leans on his technique, especially win
he gets hard and a player they say, I'm gonna
lean on my athletic ability and when you run a
four to two you can't help but say I can
do it with my speed instead of saying no, I
need to stay square and stay in his back pedal
(31:06):
until he turns his hip and dips his shoulder like
so trusting technique and this is nothing but like I said,
an NFL coach to clean up because it's a lot
to work with with this kid.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
So again, in off coverage, Maxwell Hurston is a beast
like he does a great job anticipating rock concepts, interceptions,
the man coverage stuff. And also I didn't think I
wanted to bring up Fredick because and you understand this
because you played dB versus the bigger receivers. I felt
got like a little bit quiet, you know what I'm saying.
He just he didn't have the physicality to deal with it. Again,
he's like I think twelve on my list, right, So
(31:39):
just just off the.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Customer, right.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
I just think it's just so much to work with
him that he's one of those things where dB coach
can't wait to get him in the room. Yeah, because
whatever he doesn't do well, I feel like I can clean.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Up as a coach.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And again like film's good. I actually like Kobe Bryant
film a little bit better. But I think the athletic
upside of hers.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
I would say the athlete sticks out yes on him
ever since.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Yeah, absolutely, the next guy.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
In number six, man, he could have easily been my
number three. I'm just gonna keep it one hundred like
this is how this is how.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
High I am on.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
From Carolina, East Carolina, small school guy.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Listen, my man is a dog. Listen to your dog.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
This is when I always tell people, if you really
want to know a good DV. They like probably picking
off go route. That mean you didn't get me deep
and you were faster than the receiver you got that. No,
when I see you picking off crossing routes over and
over and over again, and not only does he pick
them off routinely, like the angles that he taken our
(32:41):
special when he when he makes his mind up to
put his foot on the gas and get down hill
with that left. Oh my god, listen to me. This
kid is I put him to. I compare him to
Antonio Kramar.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Dude, love that.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
It's a great com Yes, sir, but I will say
this and this is a good thing.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yes, my man wants to tackle.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Crow was tackling when he first got a lead. Crow
was tackling when he first got lead. But you know
that lyft Crow gat the ball skiels. Yeah, when I
first out, like this is this one of his masks? Huh?
Because I'm there serious logan. This dude jumped off the tape.
So I was like, man, I would this will be
(33:31):
the third d being taken for me.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Dude, Well, we'll talk about some other guy. But he
so acl this last year. Yeah, only played three games.
He hasn't done any testing this offseason. That's the thing
that pushed me down.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
But watching his tape, he runs a four to three.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Dude, he is so I'll tell you, so this is it? Wait,
like we Shavon Revel, we love him. He does the
things I like.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
He tackles, he's physical, he plays man covered at a crazy,
high level.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
He's instinctive. A couple of things that make me a
little bit worried. The injury. Obviously, he's playing at East Carolina.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
They don't bother me.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
But against if you watch him against Michigan, Yes.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
He played ball dog a dog.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Listen to me, he got that dog getting And guess what.
I love small school guy because they play with a
chip on their shoulder from the time they get to
the NFL to the time that they leave this guy
right here, Like, as a matter of fact, I'm sorry
to you, Schauvelle. I'm sorry for the hate. I'm sorry
for the disrespect. I should replace Baron at three with
shavel That's how I feel. I mean, we reveil, That's
(34:29):
how I feel. I'm sorry, that's how I feel. I'm
starting to feel icky because I didn't do.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
It to me. I feel the same way. I wanted
to put him above some of those other guys. But
the injury, the uncertainty. You didn't see it this year
from him. Yeah that's again Fred and nine. Yeah he's
six for me too. Yeah he's exactly six. Because I
love him, but I was like, I can't put him
above healthy people that have done the process.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Yes, I can't do it, and that's what I'm saying.
But that's why he wasn't at three. I really want
to put him ahead of Baron because I just feel like,
because I'm trying to project as a pro now I
know what you're being in college, I'm saying, who's gonna
click with the pro game faster? And now that I'm
really really thinking about it in my head, he should
have been three and I should have been talking about
(35:12):
Bearing right there at six.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Yeah, okay, so let's talk about your number five real quick?
Who I also love? Yes, the cash Starks from Georgia Place.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Safety eety most definitely. Now you want to talk about
mental warfare?
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Dude?
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Could you do you like this comparison Earl Thomas. I
don't think he's that fast instinct. Yeah, you're saying, you're
saying the intelligence.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Intelligence, the size, ye, the move he fluent.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Yeah, Like when he moves it's no wasted steps.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
So I'll say this about him, like he's a big dude.
He's like six to one and a half. He's two
hundred and five, two hundred ten pounds, a big big guy. Yeah,
he plays like Nickel.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
That's what I'm telling you he minds me of Branch
from Detroit.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Dude, I think that's a better comp for me. Branch
is a little bit more physically violent. You can play nickel,
you can play posts, you can play the linebacker in
a time situation.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
We don't know where you're going to be when the
play starts.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
And he didn't play some big tame football against some
big time whie receives the big stage is not too
big for him. He's He's one of another one of
these guys I do everything good, nothing great.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
The thing that I love about him, yeah, it's I
feel like he just is a He's a.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Good football player.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You get out to the Keyston.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
And he can play man coverage, which is important to me.
He's a great tackler. Yeah, Like he's so consistent, instinctive,
and he's good at wrapping up. He gets you on
the ground, He's not afraid of it. He takes good angles.
So I know people like I wanted to put him higher,
I didn't. I'll explain why when we get to the
other person that's a little bit higher on the list.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Is he is He's just such a high floor player.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
People are criticizing him because he doesn't have a lot
of ball production, doesn't really bother me that much.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Cut the ball fouls funny, right, all right?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
But I like both those guys.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
So let's talk about my I've been through seven to
five Brock. So Jacob Parish from Kansas say, I don't
know if you watch this guy.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Did watch him, dude?
Speaker 1 (37:06):
He's a ballplayer, man, He's probably gonna play Nickel.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
He's a ball playing Jesse. But you're gonna have to
move him inside. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
So I think he's just got a great feel like
in man coverage, he's got a great feel. He matches
up against people. He plays outside corner at Kansas State.
He I think he has got a good field for
playing bigger guys. He plays through the hands, He's got
a good feel for the balls in the air. He's
physical in the run game, he can blitz, he can
play Nickel like he's just a physical Mikey Sanders reminds
me of Mikey Center.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
That's exactly. That's exactly reminds me.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
I'm just asking because when I was watching the field,
like I've seen this player before, you know, I've seen it, and.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
That that's because I love Mikey coming out.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
And that's how I feel about this guy.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
And I think you'd be talking about Jacob Parrish if
he went to a bigger if he went to Michigan
in the same way you're talking about Mikey Sander So
like he just does.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
He's he ran a four to three at the time.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
No, no, this is why I say it, Mikeyy Sanders. It's
like that new doctor Pepper Blue Beery. He just explodes
in your mouth right there watching this guy. He just
explodes off the field. He's very instinctive, don't waste motion.
That I love a dB that doesn't waste motion. He
plays angles very good and with the right coaching, he
(38:18):
could be a high end player like he was.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
He missed my list, yeah, by that much.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
And I get why because he is probably a true
nickel at the next of what he's converting.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
So there's a little bit of risk there.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
But like you said, Fred, like his footwork's tight, he's
on balance, he tackles well, he's good, and he's comfortable
in man cover. He can run with anybody, anybody, and
he's tough. He's just a tough, tough little.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Bastard, right. Yeah, Like he did close for making the
list now.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
So he's number seven for me, and then obviously number
six is Shavon Revel from East Carolina, who we talked
about for about ten minutes.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
And then this one. Fred.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Yeah, I'm really excited to get your take on this
because I did not know what to do with this guy.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
And you know what, I battled and I just said
that I was gonna move him the sixth.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Move, let's let's leave, let's let's keep the end of
suspense Baron from Texas.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Yes, I did not know what to do with him.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
That's because.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
He he is an issuv.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
You know how they make these new sports suv They
title but grab a couple of kids in there. Not
quite a sports car, if you know what I mean. Like,
he doesn't show elite quickness.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
But that's that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Just a football.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
He didn't show lead quickness, but he ran a four
to three at the time. But he don't play he
doesn't play that way.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Well, I don't say he don't play that way because
he's not really out of phase.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
But that's exactly right. All the things you're saying are true.
It's like you're in good position, you're playing man coverage. Well,
you look a little bit apathetic. Sometimes you don't look
like you're that fast, but you made this play.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
So I thought to myself, Logan, who have I seen
that plays? This just relaxed and it was Derel Reeves. Okay,
And I said, why did Dreil play like that? Because
he won so early he never worked late.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Yeah, so that's why.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
I had him at three on mine.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
And I was like, that's why he's he's winning, uh
at the first Mississippi.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Like, so I can't flag him for being that smart.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
So maybe he uses more of his IQ than he
does his athletic ability.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah, and so that's so again, let's just let's just
peel this back. He's a really interesting prospect. So I
agree with what you're saying. Like he's good in coverage,
he's got good clicking clothes. He played outside this year.
I think he probably plays nickel. And again, like I
think there's other players. I almost put Jacob Parrish above him,
but I don't think Jacob Parish gonna play outside. I
don't know if he's physical enough to play full time nickel.
Speaker 6 (40:57):
Like his timing's good, is insign he tackle well on feel,
he didn't like, Listen, this is what I tried to do.
I said, let me go down here and figure it
out through red flags. Okay, all right, because every time
I was trying to give him a green I mean
a green flag, I was just giving him green flag.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
So the effort is always there. Q was there, I
couldn't find no red flag.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yes, yeah, dude, I yeah, I don't know what.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
To tell you. It's a weird.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
It's a weird thing for me because I didn't love
him so but there's nothing wrong with him.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
So maybe I said, maybe he won so early the
challenges wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Maybe, so maybe I just need to see him get
challenged in the lead. Yeah, and so that's why I
put him.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Witherspoon was my coma.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
And again like I like with Witherspoon, that's a just
sh comp actually, because the Witherspoon had this fire, yes,
fire to it.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
He's just kind of chilling something.
Speaker 6 (41:52):
But he make plays in big game, I know.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
But that's why he's fine for me. That's why.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
But he's three from me because.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
I'm like, damn, I've seen the real Reeves play at
this methodical pace before.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Dude.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Yeah, I think that's really, you would know better than
me because you watch more film, you watch more dB
film than I do.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Okay, so let's go four and three.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
We'll save two and one for the last little bit
of conversation because that's really interesting. But let's go four
and three. You already talked about your three. Let's talk
about your four.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
All right? My four is nick em and you were
Did I say that em and Warry?
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Listen, man from South Carolina, big safety. Everyone probably remembers
him from the combine.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
I can say, come by beasts.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
He is physically mathematically at sixty three. I think he
did the bench press with twenty five times. You got
long arms four three, the closest thing on paper I've
seen to Shun Taylor.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Dude, Anywhere's twenty works twenty one?
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yes, and listen to me.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
I just watched the film over and over and I
was like, now he go to thing. He doesn't have
this shut hands. He doesn't pray with the physical prisons.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Dude of Preach Fred Preach.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
He doesn't.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
He doesn't come downhill with the bad attentions of Seun
tas How, he's wired. So maybe somebody he meets somebody
in the league that get that dog, true dog out
of him and say, you know what your ceiling is,
could be here if you take this part of your
game to the next level. But no problem with him
in coverage, plays well in space. When this hosse get
(43:21):
his head on the ball, town he dropped that thing
in the fifth gil and he is out of there,
shot out of a cannon.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
He is.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Usually these workout warriors don't play with that on film,
Like I watched John Ross Runner four to two and
to come by and never could stop in the league.
Like this kid right here, ceiling is through the roof.
He could have easily been the number one guy on
this paper right here. He is unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Dude, I'm so glad because again, when you watch him
catch the football, when you watch him run with people
in man coverage, you're like.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Who is that guy?
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Like tight ends?
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Yeah, in the league, he's having no problem with that chance.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
And he's got good man coverage in since he's got
great range of safeties, a little tightening, little tight in
the hips, so like you don't want him, like you just.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Want them to play lord, that's it.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
Yeah, So it's all there.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
The one thing I almost did I almost put him
at eight, almost put him at eight, but I was
like the physical upside too much.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
Because he's not a great tackler. Like remember watching Colin Hilton,
you watched watch Compton was a dog. Yeah, and he
take on blocks. He it runs.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, he could cover a little bit. He's not super fast,
but like that's something that you watch enough.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Db'st red.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
If you don't tackle well, like you're out of here man,
because I can't trust you, especially playing.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Safety, to make that play.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
I think, like I say, I think you get to
the league, somebody can reprogram me. I'm gonna tell you
like this, he reminded me of dB I played with
in Minnesota, and it's Darren Shop Okay, Hall of Fame
defensive back, can go find the ball, can out run
a lot.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Of people, good size, can play down here.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
But he just wasn't the most physical safety for his size.
So this, if you're telling me this the production I'm
gonna get, I'm with it. Like then what I say,
he could easily be the number one guy on my list,
like film is unbelievable. I just wanted him to be
more physical at that size and that speed.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Yeah, and I did watch the Alabama game, which was
his worst game. Yeah, and that makes you a little
bit nervous. Then you watch like Texas A and M
and he's like all over the field. Yeah, and so
it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Guy.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
He's number four for me also, just to give you
an idea, like where I'm at with him, but like
he's he's a heck of an athlete, heck of a
heck of his ceiling is all over the place.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
Is enticing, Yeah, most definitely a little a little Darwin
James in there also, Yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Darwin is more physical, That's what I'm saying. But the
echo lip profile.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Yeah, but the physical, the physicality makes If there's one
thing that makes me, it's he's not overly physical, and
it makes me nervous a little bit.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
And he's not a great tackler, So everything else is there. Yeah,
it's all there.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
That's something I'm always gonna be like if I'm in
the draft meeting, I'm like, I like him, but we
got to make sure he gets with someone who can
teach about a tackle.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
All right.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
So you said Johade barn was your three.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
My three was Malachi Starks from Georgia, who we talked
about earlier with you again. I just think his floor
is treetop high. I think he's an NFL starting player
right now. His film's good. You can play man coverage
in the more Ball production, and I can live with
that because all the things that like Nick Emmin Warry does,
like the movement skills, like Starks isn't the best mover,
(46:36):
but he.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Just every tackle I want to make an emotion.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
I'm gonna be where I got to be and I'm
gonna get you know, like, so that's where like I
just think that's a that's a football player, Johnny.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
That's my kind of guy. Right now.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
I can't wait, honestly talk about one and two with you, Yeah,
because I had I was tossed and turning about this
my man, about who is gonna go where? And so
let's start with you and then I'll tell you my.
Speaker 4 (46:59):
I know, once you seen one, you like he did it.
He did it, he did it alright. First of all,
I was starting with my two. My two is Travis Hunter,
the Heisman Trophy window from Colorado cornerback, wide receiver. I
have to look through dB eyes. When I looked through
dbiyes to me, he was the number two best corner
(47:21):
in this draft.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
So talk okay, and this this conversation makes no sense. Yes,
you're talking about you're number one. Also we're talking about
it together, yeah, Will Johnson from Michigan.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
Yes, And just for the record, my two.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Is Will Johnson from Michigan and my number one is
Travis Hunter. And it was razor thin close.
Speaker 4 (47:39):
Well, I'm gonna tell you what made it for me
was the physicality, right, Will Johnson's physicality. Will Johnson is
basically a faster version of Charles Woodson. Will Johnson at
six to two hundred pounds, it's a length, is.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
A specimen of a corner. Will Johnston.
Speaker 4 (48:00):
Right, we look at this and we see Travis Hunter,
and we'll be like, who's the most explosive guy with
the ball in his hand?
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Will jumpson? All right, listen to me, Will justin might
be a step faster.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
He's bigger, He's more equipped to be an NFL cornerback
right now than Travis h And it's aying a lot
because I compare Travis to a skin of your Champ Bailey. Right.
His ball Travis Hunter's ball skills are undeniable. He had
some of the best ball skills I've ever seen, but
I have never seen somebody put his foot in the
ground and come down here like Will just Will Justson
(48:35):
has played high end football to the peak of it.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
He's tackling.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
That's why I thought you were gonna go Will Judson
because of the physicality.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
I'll tell you why so Will Johnson when you watch
his twenty twenty three and he only played seven games
aside shir kids.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
I don't know what the injury was, but mister back
two to that. Yeah, he off ball, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Is unbelievable, Like all the stuff you talk talked about,
like what would you high football like Q. His ability
to match concepts, well, Johnson does a great.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Job of that.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
His ability to debate guys, he does a great job
of his ability to anticipate throws. Well, Johnson does a
great job of that. Like it's all like that stuff.
It was so good, And this is what I want
to ask you about. Yeah, because he's a good tackler too. Yeah,
I agree. The thing that I couldn't get past, I
couldn't find one snap him playing man coverage.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
All right, he was. They was playing this off matches.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
It's like off match zone.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
That's what they was that's what he was.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
I'm never gonna penalize a player for being xd to
do something and mastering it.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
I'm just not. But with his.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
Athletic profile and those long arms and that strength at
the point, I have no.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Doubt he could play mate. I have no doubt he
could play every coverage.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
So that was the thing I was.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
So I was watching him, and this is again like
the off ball stuff is maybe the best I've watched
last two years.
Speaker 3 (49:58):
Three years. It's really, really, really good.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
The thing that I kept coming back to is like,
and this is where I would defer to you, because
you watch TV's more than me, is how fast is he?
Because he doesn't look like he's that fast.
Speaker 4 (50:13):
I know I see a four to three easily. I
see a guy I can always tell.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Okay, this is another thing I had first three four steps,
I can tell. I had a scout tell me that
they thought he was gonna run four six? Does that
change the narrative for you? Knowing me knowing that information,
He's still number.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Nine for that now.
Speaker 4 (50:31):
I know Indianapolis is very close to Kentucky and Tennessee.
But what kind of whiskey was he drinking? I don't
see nothing. This kid probably ran a four or five
in middle school. Look, I see pure speed.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I see. I hate to say, this hurts so bad.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
I see the profile of Shun Springs when he came
out of mission.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
So bad, so bad.
Speaker 4 (50:59):
Shun was six one and a half, two hundred pounds specimen,
highest dB ever drafted. I see will when I say,
I see a faster child whistle?
Speaker 2 (51:11):
What does that tell you?
Speaker 4 (51:14):
Why Kyle Travis a skinny your chump bag, and this
kid just I'm sorry. He's God's gift to cornerback. He's
that good to me. He's better than Devil Winn Spoon.
I think he's gonna be better than Spoon.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
I think he got what is you say his weakness?
You think is speed? I see no weakness.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
So so that was my only that was only thing
is that I didn't see him play a lot of
man really any man coverage, because thinking that's not his fault.
Yeah yeah, but I'm also like man coverage is an
important part of.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
I think made me feel a lot more comfortable. He
was the best dB on the field. While Saban said
last year that Mikey Sanders Steel was, pound for pound,
the best dB in that draft, Well, this guy jumps
off on that fence.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
Yeah, And so I like him. I don't like him.
I love him.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
I'm a little concerned about like I want to see
him run because I want to I want to fill
my little formula out and do all that math stuff.
And I didn't see him play a ton of man,
and I know that can be a hard transition for
people who he's playing in an NFL defense, So like,
don't get it twisted, like he's doing high level stuff.
And again he's the second guy on my list, and
it's very, very close.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
I remembers having an argument last year about Cooper the genie.
I think I turned out to be right because you
said I don't know if he can run.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
I mean I said he wasn't gonna play outside. That's
what I said. And I was right about that too.
And you were also right about that because you thought
he was a true outside corner.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
I thought he was.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
We gonta see next year because he's gonna be asked
to do it.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
That's he could be a down fair.
Speaker 4 (52:39):
Like I said, I never penalized players when they not
actually do something, but Travis Hunter tackling in the NFL
do you not think there's gonna be a problem.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
So let's talk about Travis Hunter.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
So Travis Hunter is very raw when you watch him
play quarterback.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
He's a little all over the place.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Case at the lead peeple in the league.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
He's very handsy.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
I don't think he's that great an athlete, Like he's
a great athlete.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
That's gonna sound weird, like I don't think.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
He's great from like an explosive like like he's not
gonna run a four to two.
Speaker 3 (53:07):
I don't think he's gonna run a four four.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
I think he run a four to three, but I'm
not I wouldn't feel good today matching him up against
a J.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
Brown. Yeah, I feel good matching Will Johnson up against him.
Speaker 4 (53:19):
And that's why I got wheel number one, because when
it comes to the more physical receivers that don't need
to run past him, like, I don't know how he's
going to do with the with Mike Evans, Like I
just don't see him having a good day with Mike Evans.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
That's a great that's a great way to characterize it,
because it's it's if you think about it that way, obviously,
I think then Will Johnson again the speed slol issue.
But I will say this about Travis Hunter. He plays
stronger than he looks when he's got his hands on receivers. Yeah,
he's got a great feel for reading routes in man coverage,
miss ball skills and his ball skills and his anticipation
is crazy.
Speaker 3 (53:55):
Like again, Will Johnson from off is better.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
But his ability, like he had to play against UCLA
where he's you know, they're running the outside, go there,
running the five yard out. He acts like he's in
man coverage, puts his foot.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
In the ground, remember the play and go get.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
It, and and so that that playmaking ability is special.
And I'm also banking on this to friend a little bit.
And this is this is where you get hurt. So
I'm gonna be mad at myself because I tell other
people not to do this. Is I think when he
gets with a coach and he's playing dB full time, Yeah,
I think he's gonna be all right, is what I think.
(54:28):
I think he'll be alright because they don't think he's
not a bad tackle. He's not like a super he's
not like gonna kill you, but like he's he's willing.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Well he go to think about it. You got two
type of tackles. You got a hitter.
Speaker 4 (54:39):
Yeah, and that's somebody that's gonna pose a wheel on
you and you got to tackle it.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
I'm just trying to get you to the ground.
Speaker 3 (54:45):
I think he's.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
Most definitely a tackler.
Speaker 4 (54:47):
I just don't know is he going to be a
tackler in the third quarter of five minutes?
Speaker 3 (54:52):
A great question. It's a great question.
Speaker 4 (54:54):
And this is why I said, who's the most complete dB,
not the complete football player?
Speaker 2 (54:59):
And the complete dB was real Junts.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Yeah, and everything you Fred said I agree with, except
I'm worried. I'm a little bit more dubious about They
didn't see him play man coverage. Ford thinks you can coach.
I'm gonna defer to Fred and his overall speed. Travis
Hunter is raw, he's but he's competitive as all out door.
He's hyper competitive. His ball steals are excellent.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Technician, I gotta need more technique from him.
Speaker 4 (55:25):
And I also fear how's he gonna fare against the
bigger t Higgins of the world. How is he gonna
fare against size and strength?
Speaker 1 (55:35):
And obviously there are one and two, so they're both
really good and we feel really good about him.
Speaker 4 (55:38):
But like no, no at the league comes with dot flaws.
That's what I want you all to know. It ain't
been many perfect guys to come out to draft.
Speaker 5 (55:48):
All Right, I'm gonna ask you a couple more questions
about Travis Hunter because he's one of the hottest topics
right in this draft class. So is he gonna play
wide receiver and cornerback in the league?
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Can you do it?
Speaker 5 (56:00):
Will he do it?
Speaker 2 (56:00):
I think he has to master the cornerback first.
Speaker 4 (56:03):
I think right now, if I was drafting him, I
got him picked as my number two corner in the draft.
If I was drafting him as a wide receiver, he'll
probably be like my number five or six, right, So
he's better at the corner position. I need you to
master this one before I give you permission to go
learn another playbook. I need you to master the nuance
of the cornerback position to tackling, taking on screens, taking
(56:24):
on talk suites. I need you to master this side
before I give you permission to go do the other side.
But if he's with a terrible team like a New
England Patriots or something, they're going to experiment, whynot.
Speaker 3 (56:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (56:38):
I think for me it's I actually like this film
better at dB honestly than I did a receiver. Like
I think he's more raw there. And it's hard. It's
really hard watching this film because he does kind of
pay himself.
Speaker 3 (56:49):
You know, he's off playing hard all the time.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
And then again he's playing one hundred and fifty snaps,
so like that's.
Speaker 3 (56:54):
Not like a knock on him.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
It's just like it's like you're you're hoping I'm projecting
a little bit to like when he gets to the league,
he'll be playing one spot, he'll be better coached. And again,
just that dog competitor, that ball skill stuff comes out,
and I do think it's a little bit more valuable
at dB, especially with the way he plays the football.
He plays the football crazy man.
Speaker 4 (57:14):
Yeah, But I think if he walks in any wide
receiver room right now in the league, he had bits
the number three or four receiver.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
But like, I don't see him as a number two.
Speaker 4 (57:23):
Like if he came on this team right now, he
would not beat in the top two receiver.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
I see.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
That's the thing that's hard for me with the receiver
thing is like he does the traits are there, his change,
the direction is there, the way he tracks the ball.
Speaker 2 (57:36):
Is there is it any wide receiver.
Speaker 4 (57:38):
He reminds you of prison pass that he plays like
I got you one Ted gain.
Speaker 2 (57:44):
He reminded me of Ted again with not the high
end speed.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
He's better that he's better. He catches the football better
than Ted. And I think he's got a better change
direction than Ted. So and as we've talked about, those
things are really important and valuable. Like for me, he
was the second rode receiver after touch up McMillan. Yeah,
and so he's just there's something about the athlete that
it's hard for me to overlook. He's just so special
and unique. And the way he tacks the football with
(58:07):
his hands, you've seen it in the dB film Man
Like Yeah, he can torts and finds a way to
make these.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
Crazy plays, kind of like George Pickings when it comes
to I like that.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
Actually that's a pretty good comp like a raw route runner.
But like you just at tracked the ball.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
All right.
Speaker 5 (58:22):
So, Fred, let's say you're a GM for whatever and
you're you're picking in the top all right, is Travis
Hunter on your board? Because one of the one of the.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
Top three you say, I'm in the top three.
Speaker 5 (58:39):
Top five like, where are you picking him? Where are
you feeling comfortable enough to pick him? And the reason
I'm asking is because a lot of the big name
draft analysts that do this, and the biggest name had
him going number three overall. But if he's not your
number one corner, he's your number five wive receiver. You
don't think he's playing both ways? Why is he going
up so high? Just as a compared he would be
(59:01):
tied with one of the highest draft of DB's.
Speaker 4 (59:04):
Yeah, like I say, Sean Spring was number three and
Jeff Okuda was number three, like Eric Stingly, That's.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
What I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (59:14):
Their film was.
Speaker 4 (59:15):
Their Stingley film blows his film away? I'm sorry, right,
So he's not these guys. The fourth overall was a
Sauce Gardner. Fifth, Devin Willis, Spion Jaden and Ramsey, Patrick Peterson, Airberry,
Sean Taylor went there, there are all DB's, So I'm
trading down, so you're not take you where do you
feel comfortable? I feel comfortable taking him around seven, around
(59:37):
seven to ten. Yeah, that's where I would take him at.
And I would come in saying what do like? The
thing is, what's our plan for him? Like we got
to have a legit plan for him because I do
not want to put too much on his plate. And
I think that could be the worst thing they could
actually do with this kid is try to double spoon
(59:57):
feed him from the door.
Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
I think he's gonna fail at both positions.
Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
If they try to do that, he's going to fail
it both because he can go on the defensive side
and get his confidence to go back to the offensive
side and them dB he's he's a pro dB and
they gonna take his lunch.
Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
Yeah, I think, uh, I think that's a great point.
Like it's like a dB.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
I'd probably take him at ten at the receiver, I'd
probably take him at fifteen, yeah, fourteen fifty like that,
Like he's a good player, Like I'm not.
Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
This is gonna sound like you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Gotta put both players to get Yeah, he is one.
Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
He's an excellent player. But like if you just said, hey,
I'm drafting a dB.
Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
Yeah he's maybe ten, eleven whatever, you know what I mean.
But he's not he's not that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
He's not this guy that we've seen these like other
high level prospects at the position. And he's a good receiver,
but like there's risk associated with it, and usually in
the draft about mitigating risk. And I think I said
this to you, Jason, like, maybe you're mitigating risk because
he can play both.
Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
But I think Fred bought a probably a great point.
Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
If you force feed him both things, he's I think
he's for sure gonna fail because it's just so much
more challenging at the NFL level. The schemes are more complicated,
the physicality is more intense, the seasons longer, like he's
just gonna get beat up.
Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
And let me ask you this. If I told you
he got drafted, we turned the page. He got drafted
to the Tennessee Tides with the Mayonnaise Man will live.
Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Yeah, right, do we see him?
Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
Because that's a team that would say we gotta say tickets,
we need you to play both.
Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
They'll force feed him. Now.
Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
If he goes to New England with Drake may yeah,
maybe you got a shot. Maybe maybe you got a
shot now. So sometimes it ain't just about the player,
it's about the destination.
Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
And if you at the top of the draft, you
already know you're going to a terrible team.
Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Yeah. And I think, yeah, man, And I.
Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
Think it's just the way he tackles and the way
he plays like he's not refined like you watch those
other guys like they're more physical, they're more And.
Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
That's why I had to take wheel jes because when
he just more refined in every aspect of dB.
Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Yep, no, I agree, man, dude, Fred, this was a
lot of fun mantime.
Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Many time I can prove you wrong, Professor, I am
with it.
Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
Well, I would defer to you on this.
Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
You've got a really good feel for for defensive back play,
obviously because you were a really good player in your
time here, obviously. So that's gonna do it for today show.
Please make sure you're liking to the subscriber ever, get
your podcasts and uh that's it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
H
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