The Consequences of Political Apathy

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm Tamika D.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Mallory and this shit boy my son in general.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
We are your host of TMI.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Tamika and my Son's Information, Truth, motivation and inspiration.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
New energy. What's going on, my son, Lennon, I am.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Blessed in Holly Favor. How you doing today, Tamika D.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Mallory, I'm doing really good. I am feeling a little
reallye I'll tell you I am.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
And why are you feeling relieved too?

Speaker 1 (00:35):
For the last few days since the rally that took
place in Madison Square Garden on this past Sunday, I
received a lot of messages from people, and I've also
been watching some of the social media profiles or pages
where they have a lot of people, not just black people,

(01:00):
but just people in general with who have expressed their
either support for Trump or just their desire to stay home.
It's probably probably been more people who have expressed that
they're not going to vote at all. And the last
few days I really have been watching that turnaround. I
received a number of text messages. By the time I

(01:21):
woke up on Monday morning, there were at least three
people that text me saying, Hey, you know this is crazy,
Like I was thinking about voting for Trump. Now I'm
not and or I'm definitely going to the polls. And
then I saw on a few people's pages in the comments,
they were like, you know, I wasn't going to vote.
I'm tired of it all. You know, the same things

(01:43):
and by the way, things we agree with, you know,
things that people just feeling like this whole thing is
a clown show. They just don't feel, they don't feel
or see how it will impact their lives, and even
though we know it will, and they weren't planning on voting,
and now they're like, yeah, we can't let these people
take control back of the country. And so I think

(02:07):
I feel good about that. I had said to you
from you know, months and months ago when we were
it was during the Joe Biden time, I think it
was Joe Biden was still the nominee, and I remember
saying to you. You were like, I just don't know
what's going to happen, And I said, one of the
best things that could happen in this election, or that

(02:29):
happens every time, is Trump speaking. When he talks, when
he talks, when his sarrogates talk, when he has people
around him talking because they talk their way out of
people having any sort of you know, feeling of I
don't want to say affinity, but people seeing them as
anything other than what they are, which is raging racist.

(02:49):
And so you know, I as an organizer for thirty
years of my life, I am always incredibly grateful when
the opponent gives me something to work with that I
don't have to try to figure out on my own
or try to clip everything together to show people what
we're talking about. It's just all right there. The media,

(03:12):
everybody every day has been talking about what happened at
that rally.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
It's been it's been very interesting. You know.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
The Trumpers were trumping this weekend, as I say, and
it was really just mind boggling, you know, it was.
It was so mind boggling. First of all, I had
heard about this rally, like probably the day before it
was happening.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
They said it. I didn't even know.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
And then to see a lot of people down there,
so and I seen it on a black guy's face.
He was like bragging he was outside. So when you
listen to just the rhetoric that was going on in there,
just in the last couple, like the last couple rallies
that he had. You've seen the doctor phil statement, the
other guy's statement about Americas for America, and then they
compared it to you know, the statement that was made

(03:58):
by Hitler, you know, the Germany is for Germans, so
and then it was comparing it to the actual meeting
and rally that it had in the garden in.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
The thirties, in the thirties.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
So it's like it was reminiscent, and it really felt
the same kind of energy. You know, I just I
sat there and I said to myself, this is just
really wild. Yeah, you know, it was just so wild
just to hear those sentiments and just hear the even
the crowd like agree with certain things. It's like, damn,
how do we live in America? Excuse me? The current

(04:34):
day of America. There are people that have this mind state,
like how do you how do you still share that
type of mind state as we've grown, like you you
would believe that.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
America should have grown, right, you should.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
We know there are pockets, right, we know there are
pockets of racism, but racism was so prevalent in that
room and in that space. The energy of it was
just like it's like unhinged, it's un bridged, is unhidden
KKK with no robes. It was just crazy to me

(05:07):
that a person that was running for presidency in a
race that people were saying is so close, that would
utilize that time for rally to cause that level of
dissension and division.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
It just didn't make any sense to me.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Well, you know, I would say that one of the
things that was really disturbing for me was that during
these speeches where people are saying the most vile, disrespectful, racist,
ignorant lies by the way stating lies, you didn't see
a mass exodus of people leaving either, by the way,

(05:44):
if you're even in the room, if you're even in
the room, if you even take the time to go
to the rallies understanding who Trump is. You know, that
for me is problematic. But I still keep trying to
give people the benefit of the doubt that perhaps they
just you know, I don't know, maybe they're misinformation disinformation,
Maybe they're confused, you know, maybe they just think it's funny.

(06:06):
I still try to give people some benefit of doubt.
I know I shouldn't, but nonetheless, something has to give
you the ability to coexist in the society where people
standing to your left and right that might be a
supporter of Trump or have been to a rally, and
you still got to like walk around through the world.
So I try to say to myself, they just ignorant
or whatever. But you didn't see a mass exodus of

(06:30):
people walking out the building once those words were being stated,
and what Well, no, but it's not them, because remember,
the media is not just Fox News. Okay, it's all
media in these spaces like right, If there was a
mass exodus of people leaving, it would have been reported

(06:50):
because you have every media outlet in the press pool,
So it's not just a Fox News network. Now. Fox
might have the best spot, they might be able to
get all the interviews afterwards and all of that, but
you have a lot of media outlets that are in
the presspool that are able to report, and there is
there was no mass exodus. There are not people online

(07:13):
today saying we left, we left, we left, we left,
or at least I haven't. I've not witnessed that, right,
But this is what I want to say. I don't
know how many people. I guess Madison Square Garden probably
holds like thirty five thousand people or something like that.
I probably all the way off on the numbers, but
they hold tens of thousands of people. Then they say

(07:33):
that there was another ten thousand people outside waiting to
get in. I just want people to know. These folks
are on the restaurants that cook food, They are teachers,
they are doctors, They are people who you see every
single day. So the folks who were at that rally,
the maybe fifty thousand people that were down there at

(07:54):
Madison Square Garden on last Sunday, those are people who
provide service for you. They're bankers, they are not These
are not people who live in the bottom of a
barrow somewhere. These are folks who are walking around every
single day with you. Again, doctors, lawyers, teachers, people educating

(08:16):
your children, people providing you services, people cooking your food,
people who absolutely hate you. And so I just, you know,
just want to make sure that that's out there for folks,
so that people are not confused what you're looking at.
You are looking at fellow citizens who believe things about us,
things about our communities, things about people of color. That

(08:36):
it's vile and it fuels the hate that allows us
to oh, oh, oh, I left out a major category.
Some of them are police officers. So let's be clear
that when we're saying, oh, we're being killed disproportionately, or
we're being mistreated, or when we get to the hospital
we can't get the type of care that we're supposed

(08:56):
to have, that black infant mortality is an issue, that
there are other health concerns that our communities are people
are not being treated properly. The folks at the store
treat you disrespectfully. All of that is in the hearts
and mind of folks who went to that rally.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
So just know that, I mean, I'm very clear of that.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
I just don't understand why people haven't been knowing these,
you know, and it's sad that it's taking this time
and some people still, you know, they're gonna drink the
kool aid man. I said it on my Instagram page
yesterday that I really believe that this is an experiment.
You know, me and me and the producer. I'm not
always having this conversation. A few minutes ago that somebody said,

(09:40):
I can prove to you that we can pick the
violenst lowest vibrational individual and put them out here disrespect
do everything and people still following both absolutely and because
there's no there's no other common sense answer for what
we're dealing with right now. There is absolutely, Like I
I'm so perplexed that the things that's happened, and it's

(10:02):
like it has to be this has to be an experiment.
Somebody's gonna have to come out and say punk or something.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Because it does not America.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
America is is no way that America is just bad
in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
It's just can't it is, And to some degree it's
gotten worse. And I think that President Obama's presidency was
like the beginning of a all out war on people
of color. That you know, we are still dealing with
the backlash of President Obama being elected to office and

(10:38):
having that black, strong black woman and those black daughters
and a black mother in law in the White House.
We are still dealing with the backlasher that I saw.
Eric Holder was at a rally for Kamala Harris the
other day, the black Attorney General who started and still

(10:59):
to this day talks about, uh, the issues of police
accountability and police violence in this country, dealing with criminal
justice reform. I mean, these are these are things that
they never wanted to see happen, and they were asleep
at the wheel. They believed that they had unmitigated power

(11:20):
and control, and then all of a sudden they woke up, like, oh, ship,
we let this hope and this we let this hope
and this energy get into our youth. This is why
they're targeting. And this is not just by the way,
Let's be clear, this is not just about Democrats and Republicans.
This is white supremacy which exists in both parties, but

(11:43):
one party has it upfront out and it's it's the
exactly and it does not have space for any balance.
It is just what it is.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
Started out, it started out in that form.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Like people always want to talk about the history of
the Republican Party, how it started out, the history, you know,
the party of Abraham Lincoln that was for civil rights,
and we know all of that, but people actually act
like they forget when the parties flipped. They act like
they forgot when they decided that we're no longer going
to focus on civil rights anymore, and they started to
be way more conservative and started to fight against civil

(12:24):
rights and advancement of blacks, and therefore blacks shifted away
from that party. They pretty much pushed us out of
the Republican Party and we've rebuilt ourselves inside the Democratic
Party on our principal started electing our own government officials.
Now we have over two and three hundred elected officials
inside of a party that we've put into Like a
lot of us have literally been on the ground putting

(12:46):
these people into office.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
We voted.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
We know people that's been on the front line with us,
that have started out as activists, being in the same
trenches with us, that fought against that we've actually been
able to vote into power that we actually can go
to the office say these things are going on our communities.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
It ain't know what's going on communities, and it's still.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
A lot of work to get what should be happening
from those individuals to become realized. I mean, even our
guest today is someone who uh you know, because of
the pushback on him speaking about issues, Uh, he lost
his election. Also, Corey Bush lost her re election. Bid.

(13:25):
You have the pressure, the the the unfortunate. What's the
word that I'm looking for, the the violence against threats
there you go to threats against people like aoc Rashida.
I mean, the list goes on and on right, and
so we know that there are people. There are good

(13:46):
people and people even before the squad, when you think
about Maxine Waters, Barbara Lee, Uh, these are people, Evett Clark,
these are people what's our brother's name from Indiana, good brother. Uh,
Congressman Andre Carson, these are good people. And I'm sure
I'm missing a bunch of folks. Jasmine Crockett, these are

(14:08):
people who are They take fighting for black people and
brown people and marginalized communities very serious, but they are
often fighting against the wind because white supremacy has a
hold in all of these political parties, including the Green
Party right. And so as a result of you of

(14:33):
being or having this kind of like trifecta of you know,
it's not just in politics, but it's just like the society,
the politics, every little area, everywhere you go, everywhere you
time great, you're fighting against white supremacy, and that makes
it really difficult to get things done. We have to

(14:54):
figure out what it looks like to respond to this
stuff and really fight and tear down the these walls
that have been built around us that are literally choking
the life out of our communities. And that brings me
to my thought of the day. So, you know, over
these last few days, the big takeaway up from the

(15:15):
rally is that three individuals endorsed Kamala Harris. So it's
Bad Bunny, j Loo and Ricky Martin. Now, Bad Bunny
has forty five million followers, Jalo has two hundred and
fifty million followers, and Ricky Martin has let's see, eighteen
million follows. This is a lot of people that they

(15:36):
have now you know, come forward to try to influence
to vote for Kamala Harris. I have a serious problem
with that. Well, for one, I'm trying. I get that
in the last days that's when you really really win elections,
like right, and that final stretch, those last two to

(15:58):
three weeks and those last days, that's when the pressure
is really on. All the ads are on TV, people
are endorsing, rallies are happening, right, And that's why it's
so good that this MAGA rally took place when it did,
because it's the last few days and as people make
those final decisions or people who were like, oh I
ain't even I ain't even thinking about oh shoot, oh

(16:20):
that's right, I gotta go vote. So it's always good.
But there has been misinformation, disrespect, racism, vileness, and every
hate happening for a long time, and these three individuals
have now decided that they want to come forward. And
my issue is that I don't like the fact that

(16:41):
we can sit back and only make a move when
something happens to our people, when we don't see the
humanity in other people enough to say, well, I don't
like it when they was talking about black women, so
I was going, I'm gonna make an endorsement. Now, I
don't like the fact that they're run around on Kamala
Harris names, saying that she's a whore, that she's a count.

(17:05):
All of this stuff was going on prior prior. Just
so we're clear, this stuff was happening prior to the
moment when Puerto Rico became an issue, which for me
that like, it really hurt me to hear them speak
about the people of Puerto Rico and the island of

(17:26):
Puerto Rico the way that they did. That hurt me.
But just like, I stand up for the Palestinian people
because as we see they're being demonized, there was a
target put on their back in this same rally. As
we see that for us, our humanity tells us that
I'm there for every single community that is being mistreated,

(17:47):
or if people are speaking about these people in a
way that puts a target on them, I feel it's
an issue for me. I may not be a member
of the lgbtqi A community, but guess what, I still
hear and feel and understand when people are targeting them immigrants.
I see that. So I'm just trying to understand what
was happening for the last several months as we saw

(18:11):
these people pick off the Haitians, was eating dogs. I mean,
there's been so many things and I just feel like
we need to be more responsible. Sure, I'm glad that
they endorse. I'm of course i am. I'm so glad.
It was so good to see. Okay, these are powerful
individuals in a community that really needs the information, and
I know that these are people they follow, So I'm

(18:32):
glad that they did. That's not the point. But my
thing is we got to stop waiting until our name
is called specifically and not seeing the humanity of the
other person sitting right next to you who's being demonized.
Because the one thing that we know is that white
supremacy does not have limits and bounds. It is only
for white men for the most part. Right it is

(18:55):
to uphold the power of white men. So guess what,
white women who are losing their rights in terms of
their physical autonomy to make just decisions about their body,
guess what, Ricky Martin and bad Bunny, I need you
to care about that. Now. Perhaps I didn't hear before
that they had already said things for Kamala. Perhaps you
know I missed it, But it seems that after the

(19:19):
statement about the Puerto Rican people and the island of
Puerto Rico, now the whole world is seeing what black
women have been saying. We've been on the top of
buildings going yo, yo, check them out. The racists. They're dangerous.
They coming for all of us. So I just hope
that we can find a way to say when I

(19:41):
see you disrespect my sign, then I'm not gonna let
you get to me. You're not even gonna get to me.
And I just wanna say one thing. It's very similar
to the whole thing that happened with us at American Airlines.
Right then I see all these people being like, oh,
American analyzes is the worst They did this to me?

(20:03):
They did that to me. Well, guess what we told y'all,
what they did to us, We told you, and you
ran on over there act ignoring what we went through
and just going on about your business. We told you
Gucci was out here being racist with that sweater that
they put out there. We done told you that Nike

(20:23):
had they severed their relationship with Kyrie Irvin and for
no reason at all, just disrespected this black man. For
no reason at all, We told you these things, and
guess what people be like. That's not my problem. I
got nothing to do with that. And you keep on
until eventually the pendulum swings in your direction.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
And that's that's just a reality that we deal with.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
You know, I was having a conversation with some I
don't want to bring up the individual's name, but individual
was talking about how they came forward and said that
they were supporting Kamala Harris, Kamala Kamala Lah and the
individual came forward until how they was taught they was
going to support Kamala Harris and when they said it,
they lost five to six thousand followers instantly. And the

(21:11):
person said, they just got quiet because you know, I
didn't want to deal with that, and then they was like,
I commend you for being able to do that.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
And I've lost followers.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
I've lost probably about eight nine thousand followers, and that
made me more.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
That made me.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
I love it because now I just I don't want
you all to follow me anyway. Whoever, everybody who unfollowed
me because I was I was ten toes down for
a black woman. I said, this is who I stand for.
Everybody who un follow me, you wasn't supposed to be
it anyway, because obviously you thought I stood for something
that I didn't stand for anyway, So you was actually
following the wrong person. So that was perfect for me.

(21:47):
But everybody's not willing to do that to me because
you know, when we're talking about they said, Michael Jordan said,
you know, when he was they was asking about things,
he said, well, Republicans buy shoes too, right, So this
is how people feel. And a lot of these people, look,
you said, one hundred million followers, their publicists is telling them,
don't get.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
Involved in politics, stay away from politics.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
And because at the end of this is a reality
of situation. So what happens is it becomes when it
starts to get personal. For them when they see the
direct attack on them, even if they was on the
edge before, they were sitting there and saying I didn't
want to do it.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
Now they personalize it.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Unfortunately, that's the world we live in, you know, And
and we have to I say all the time, don't
wait till somebody do something to your kids to be
out here protested in Marshall and say something that because
you gonna want us, because there's a lot of people
that say, you know, I don't do those politics, this
and that. Unfortunately we talk about we're talking about young thug,
Young Doug is facing the system right now, right and

(22:45):
he's and everybody saying yo, this and that Young Doug. God,
when they were saying, yo, what's going with Black Lives matter?
Young thusts, I don't. I don't want to. I' gottahe
to do with that, you know, So I don't. And
that's how he felt. But I guarantee right now he
wants black people to stand up for him and see
the injustice that's did with them. And unfortunately, that's what
we deal with in society. So because we've dealt with
this and we know exactly what's come with it, we've

(23:07):
made out. We made a decision, and this is the
calling on our life to make sure that we send
up for people. We see things through a different lens,
and unfortunately everybody's not gonna see I just hope that
they see it before it's too late, you know what
I'm saying, Because it's.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Gonna be too late. Yeah, And in this situation, I
hope because a lot of people have voted already. So
when you, as a you know, a j LO, you
come out days into early voting, that's dangerous because people
have already been out there casting their ballots or somebody

(23:41):
who didn't have an opportunity to see all of the details.
Like I really did think it's no way that everybody
doesn't know who these people are. But I'm realizing a
lot of people don't know, Like they don't see it
because their algorithm. A lot of people follow stupidity, right.
The algorithm picks up on the type of stuff that

(24:03):
you stop them. So when you're scrolling, I told you
I used to be scrolling all the time looking at rats,
like trying to understand what's going on with the rats
in New York City and other places. I was really
deeply trying to figure out what do we do to
conquer this issue on rats, and my algorithm started pushing
the craziest videos to me. I had to change it.

(24:26):
By as soon as I see it, I just keep going,
I don't share it. I don't do any of that anymore.
And now it's out of my algorithm. So if you
out there following you know, Kevin Samuels, right, if that's
your main type of person. And I'm not saying I
am not here today to get into a debate about
Kevin Samuels, but I'm just saying, if you are a

(24:48):
person who follows somebody like Kevin Samuels, God rest his soul.
And then you start, you know, getting a lot of
other podcasts and whatnot where they're saying things about women,
and that may not be favorable, it is coming because
the algorithm has decided this is the content you want now.
And now you're at the point of an election, and

(25:10):
maybe you're not that seri into it, but you do
feel like women don't ever admit when they're wrong, and
some of these women think that they so fly and
man nine and you might have some of those thoughts,
and then you watch a little bit, a little bit.
So now you up to the point where Kamala Harris
isn't black. She slept her way to the time, she

(25:31):
this and that like anything, she's stupid. Look at her,
because now your algorithm has decided, it's determined that this
is the type of feedback that you want. So no,
it's not going to push to you that Trump said
something about whoever, or that he was throwing paper towels
at the Puerto Ricans. It's not going to show you that,
you know. So anyway, it is what it is. It's

(25:52):
very very very interesting out here. So let's talk about
CMI today. What was too much? The rally was all
the way too much, right. I didn't even want to
get into comedians because somebody tried to say to me, well,
you all, this is my social media. You all have
black comedians that say things that hurt people, are so
disrespectful whatever, whatever. They don't get to speak at the

(26:16):
rally for Kamala Harris or any other political person, except
they don't get an invitation or allowed to speak in
those types of spaces. Right, this was a rally for
somebody who's supposed to be running for president of everybody,
not just one group. Of people. So you would not

(26:37):
have a comedian like XYZ, black person, brown person, anybody
else on the stage at Kamala Harris's rally because they're
not going to allow you to either go off script
or even for who you are to be associated with
them and their campaign. They wouldn't have me and you
up there speaking. Why because we are extremely prop pro Palestinian, right.

(27:02):
We have challenged the Democratic Party. They know that we have.
We fall out with them all the time, so they're
not gonna put us up there to speak. They're gonna
have certain types of people because they know that they
have to contained the message exactly at their rally. So
I'm not even gonna get into the comedian piece, right,
but I will say that Giuliani, right, the former mayor

(27:25):
of New York, who also has to turn over his
apartment and whatever assets he has because he doesn't have
enough money to pay the black women that he targeted
in Georgia, the two women who were pole workers who
started getting death threats because of this vile nature of
how he spoke about them at rallies and in other places.

(27:48):
They were being harassed. And it was because of Giuliani
that this happened. By the way, Giuliani has done this,
not just to those women, but he's done it as
the mayor of New York City. We know him if
it were not for the fact that nine to eleven
happened while he was mayor, right, that is what basically
saved him, because while he was mayor and nine to

(28:08):
eleven took place, he had no choice, just like Andrew
Cuomo when COVID happened. And everybody's sitting there watching TV
to all, we love Andrew Cromo. He's amazing. No, no,
you don't know his politics prior to this natural disaster,
which has required him to have to step up and
do what he needs to do on behalf of all
New Yorkers. But prior to that, Andrew Cromo was playing

(28:31):
a game with black and brown people, causing division amongst
us in our community. And let's not talk about what
these women are saying took place in the office space, right.
So same thing with Giuliani. He was a race a
raging racist as mayor of New York City. I remember
my parents were out there fighting against Giuliani. So now

(28:52):
you know too much, too much. He could have went
out there and said a whole bunch of racist things.
What would make you especially this is so crazy to me.
This is so crazy to me. You want your candidate
to win, and y'all clearly have worked up a scheme
to get Arab people, some folks in the Arab community

(29:16):
to stand with your guy. Just a couple of days ago,
there were Arab people standing with him. Why would you
come out on stage and say that two year old
Palestinian children are taught to kill Americans And it might
be a few of them, but I'm not taking any
chances they they basically are taught to kill us, and

(29:38):
they're evil. What would make like this?

Speaker 3 (29:41):
This?

Speaker 1 (29:42):
This was so dumb.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
It's not even just dumb, it's it's who you are.
You can't you can't hide who you are at the base,
at the core of who you are. You can do
you know, you can hide it for a little while,
you could try to be quiet, but at the base
in the court, especially when you're in a room and
you feel comfortable, right, that's what happens when you feel
comfortable in the space and you see the energy and
energy is this is what the people feel. When he

(30:06):
said that, you see how the peoples like, yeah, they
cheer because that's how they feel. This is how they feel.
This is a room full of people that feel that
that is the sentiment that they have. And they said,
this is what Trump feels, and that's why they follow
Trump because they know that's what Trump feels. So the
reality is God was just doing God's work. He was
exposing the person before you so you can see. Don't listen.

(30:28):
A snake has a split tongue. So when you listen
to the split tongue snake, they might they might woo
you with a little bit. They gonna show you exactly
who they are. And that's what that was. Julianni was
being exactly who he was, exactly who he's always been.
And I hope that everybody's seen it. But you know,
we got the you know, the kool aid sippers that's

(30:48):
still gonna say, no, he don't, he ain't Trump, That
ain't what Trump think. Yeah, the whole the whole audience
when he said this is what Trump think. He said,
this is how Trump feels.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
And everybody screaming, I wasn't even paying yea.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
He said that, he said Trump, this is how Trump feels.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, but you know, like the reason why I'm giving
them TMI for today is because as a political strategist,
as a movement.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
Strategy, it was just it was just inso much.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
But as a political strategist, as a movement strategist, you're
supposed to know. You're supposed to know. We got days left,
no reason to go upset it. Kamala Harris is already
dealing with her own support for Israel and the fact
that you know her, the administration that she's a part

(31:37):
of is continuing to drop bombs on the people of
Palestine now, the people of Lebanon, Like she's already up
dealing with that. She already damn ned didn't get our
support because of it, right, so they didn't need to
do any work. So that was just too much, Like
it was TMI too much for Juliani to set which which,

(32:01):
by the way, it must be stated that what he
said is a damn lie. We know Palestinians. We have
been working with Palestinian woman Linda Sarsour, who has an
incredible family of Palestinians. We've been to family occasions, we've
been to Palestine. Ain't no two year old child learning

(32:24):
to kill Americans. That is a bold face lie. So
that's that. That's why it's t m I first of all.
But beyond that, you should have tucked your racism because
you only have a few more days that you would
have been able to maybe keep some people around that issue.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
You help yourself. Man, Racism gonna is gonna bust out
at the scene. White supremacy isn't the is the It
is the ideology that you are so superior to everybody
that you don't have to value them right so that
you can actually say what you want.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
That's why it shows up.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
You can't really hide weiser from because they made up
in their mind that they can go unchecked right right there.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
And when you in a room with otherwise and premise
it just.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Like that's like, yeah, you gave them. They had so
much energy in there and that happened. Yo. That is
a real things. I have been at rally's before when
I had talking points that I know I'm supposed to
stick to, but it's still other stuff in my mind,
like other stuff that I know I'm not supposed to say,
and because the energy is so crazy. In fact, I

(33:31):
talk about one incident that took place when I was
working at National Action Network as a younger activist. It
was during the time of Trayvon Martin. I got so excited,
and you have to read it in the book to
know exactly what I did. A baby. My tongue was
ready to go because people were standing on their feet,
screaming and yelling, and then it was just coming out

(33:54):
because that's how I really felt. But it was inappropriate,
more more than likely. I mean, I still think I
should have been able to say that and more. But
I do know that it was the wrong environment because
it wasn't my rally right, it's not my mic. And
the problem is that my boss at the time, Reverend Sharpton,
had already been involved in another incident where he was

(34:16):
charged with inciting violence, and it became a whole thing.
And so when you speaking on somebody else's microsphone where
they're paying the bills and they're doing you know, they're
in charge, and the heat will come to them, you
gotta be careful. You got to have your own mic
to speak how you want. So you know, I don't
think what I said was wrong, but the time and
the place for where I did it, it definitely caused me.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
It was it was politically incorrect.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yeah, it was a little well, you got to read
the book.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
What's the name of the book again, I live to
tell the story.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
It should be out, yes, yes, So my real music Spotlight,
it's based on something that you sent me, right, you know.
I you know, I've always liked a lot of Little
Dirk's music. I've watched him evolve as an artist, you know,
I've studied him, I've watched him.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
You know.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Unfortunately, in last week, we've seen that he just was
arrested on federal indictment for actually attempting to pay somebody
conspiracy mur murdifa Hi, conspiracy for murder for hind We
just seen that.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
You know.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
It's it's very unfortunate because I've been watching Dirk evolve.
I watched him go from one of the main drill
rappers who is you know, connected to all types of
negativity to you know, transformed, transformed to.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
I watched him going from a drill rapper who was
involved in everything, a young boy who was procerated, you know,
who had a track record for a lot of things,
to evolving and actually converting to Islam. You know, his
father had that Big Dirk had did a bunch of
times came home and you had seen him on a
proper trajectory, you know, him speaking properly, say he didn't

(36:04):
want to be associated with anything negative, and to see
you know, this happened to him at this time, which
it usually does, you know, karma catch up.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
I don't know, I can't speak what happened.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
I don't know specifics, but I just know it's really
unfortunate just to constantly just keep watching these young boys
going to jail and be a young boy. It's supposed
to be in jail for guncharged, and they just had
their thing, and then you know, just all this negativity
around these young artists.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
It is just it is deflating. And I've been saying
it a.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Lot that you know, I hate the fact that these
artists only get the spotlight or get people to pay
attention to them because they're talking about beef, you know.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
In the drill scene. That's what it takes.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
You know, if you're not talking about real beef that
you have, you're not describing a real shooting or killing,
if you're not smoking on the ops, if you're not
doing that negativity, they're not even grabbing you. That's where
the buzz comes from now, And I hate that because
that only ends up one way, and we see it
constantly happen, you know, young Floer k Flock and all
these people just constantly what you know, we talk about

(37:10):
the six nons and we just constantly keep seeing the
same train wreck happen over and over for these young boys.
But you sent me a song, I guess when you
heard about you and you started listening, and I had
heard the song before, but it really resonated now, right,
and it was Federal Nightmas. I think you should everybody

(37:30):
should listen to it. It talks about the reality of
when you in these streets and things have happened and
you have a nightmares that the Feds are gonna come
get you. And it's pretty much like he spoke this
into existence, the reality he was talking about how his
friend couldn't even look at him on his stand, has
he beene told on him? And you know, and allegedly

(37:53):
one of his close friends who he actually gave money
he came home and brought them houses and did things,
who was a friend for him, was being a wire
for about two years, you know. And he's the person
that you know, ultimately got him arrested. You know, I
don't know what he did. You know, you know, at
the end of the day, we have to be held
accountable for our actions and those realities. But it's just

(38:15):
so unfortunate to just constantly watch our youth, our young stars,
up and coming stars. Because Dirk was a star. Like
he was speaking and he was you could hear the evolution.
And that's what I always talk about. They talk about
these young kids, and I'm like, you have to give
us an You got to give us an opportunity evolved.
You know, I came into this game as mice an

(38:36):
left the gun and the right pomp and this evolution.
You know, Malcolm X was Detroit Red. Like, there's a
process of evolution, and it's so unfortunate that as these
kids constantly evolve, they get snatched out of their prime
and they get snatched out of the world.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
So, you know, I'm hoping the best. You know, Dirk
keeps his head up.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
But I need everybody listen to this Federal nightment, especially
if you're a young kid in these streets involved in
different things and you don't understand the ramifications and the
realities of what's going on in this lifestyle. This is
something I need you to listen to because it's a
real thing, and it actually came to exactly how he
spoke about it.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yeah, I mean I heard that song as I was
laying in the bed. I wanted to learn more about it.
I went down a rabbit hole, and you know, I
don't listen to a lot of drill music. I'm sure
you know, I don't even really know what drill music is.
That's different from some of the other stuff. I guess
I do, but I really don't enough that I can say, oh,
that's drill. But you know, I wanted to just understand

(39:40):
what happened to this young man. That's just something we
have to keep our fingers on, right, Like we're so
caught up in what's going on with the politics in
this nation, but a lot of the politics are local,
and we need to know what's happening with our people.
So I just was doing a little bit of research
and I just happened to come across this song Federal Nightmas,

(40:03):
which literally, as you said, is laying out what I
learned as I read articles I was on Twitter. I mean,
I'm all the way down in the rabbit hole looking
my hairstyl is. One of her other clients was giving
me some information, so I was googling names. I didn't
know who King Vaughn was, and now I see that
he's at the center of a lot of this and

(40:24):
supposedly all of this stuff is to avenge people killing him.
But he killed all these people before he turned nineteen,
and you know, I mean, it was so much. I'm like, dude,
these people think they in a movie, Like this is
not a movie. This is real life. And the sad
part for me is, I don't know if King Vaughan
killed people. I'm just telling you what I saw. But

(40:45):
here we are, this young man, if you did take
these lives, these are people's children, grandchildren, fathers, mothers, Like damn,
like we just we don't have any sensibility around, like humanity,
and you can't just be out here killing people. It

(41:06):
doesn't work like that. And now this situation, and then
I saw a little Dirk has all these children. And
then I know this girl in the Royal that I've
watched her. She's a real, real pretty girl. I just
liked the fact that she's supernatural right her face, she
just looks like she's just like a real pretty like.
She looks like somebody that I grew up with, right,
like somebody who lived in the community with me, the

(41:28):
pretty girl, and I just I knew her already, but
I didn't know the connection with him. So I've listened
to that song and I thought it was deep. But
then I went on ahead and listened to some of
his other music, and I was like, Okay, I really
like some of his music. And what hit me was
seeing that his father was in prison for all of
those years, as you said, and then came home and

(41:50):
his son, the other son, died, and now his other son,
who became a huge success, is under a federal indictment
or probably not indicted yet, but certainly Okay, well now
you know, been picked up by the Feds. And I
was like, this, there has to be a better story
for our young people. It has to be. I pray
for all our kids. I pray for our actual sons

(42:12):
that are in that age group that listen to this music.
I pray for them. I pray for my friends children,
I pray for family members, I pray for them. I
was literally a weeping mother on Sunday morning when I
read and listened to all of this because our children
are if there's like a to me, it feels like

(42:33):
there's a fishing pole that's out there just trying to
catch one and hooking and then wheel them on. And
the sad part about it is that when they will
you in, they're not taking you to a better fishing pond.
They're not taking you to a beautiful fishing bowl where
you're gonna be fed. They're taking you to slice you up,

(42:54):
cut you open, and fry you up so somebody else
can eat you. And I just I just burst into
tears that you know, I don't know what he did.
So then I saw that another rapper that this is
all supposed to be. I think the hit was supposed
to be on him. Kwondo Rondo. You know, he came
out with a statement saying, I like, I forgive everybody.

(43:16):
I don't even want no problems. I don't want any
beef because I'm gonna tell you there's something about traveling
the world, getting to see other experiences, being able to
walk out of the bounds of the hood you grew
up in and going to other places, seeing other successful
black people, seeing how they're living, seeing people making investments

(43:37):
and community development and all of that eating different foods
that gets into you, right, and it starts making you,
like you said, evolve and think to yourself, well, damn,
there's more than what I've known for my entire life.
And this young man is like, don't even worry about it,
like I wish everybody's success. That's just let this stuff go.
And I pray and hope that his attitude, that spirit

(44:00):
that came into him spreads to these other young people
who are out here watching this because all we're doing
is dying and here we are. And then somebody wrote
in the comment section, and I will let it go
at this because our guest is here and we want
to talk to him about this too. Somebody wrote in
the comment section, it's the only news. The real enemy

(44:21):
things right. The real enemy was at Madison Square Garden
with thousands of people who want to see you day. Meanwhile,
they don't even have to do the killing because we're
willing to do it for ourselves. So you know, our
running joke around here is that our friends are doing

(44:43):
so many powerful things that our show is full of friends.
We have so many people who come by to our
new digs. Now, by the way, we have new digs
and you are truly our friends with somebody that we love.
We reach out to you when we're angry, when we're happy. Everything.

(45:03):
You are in that inner circle for my son and
me too. Yeah, you do what we've been with you
in the trenches and you with us and so we
are very very excited to have back today. Uh, this
is probably the third or fourth time that you've actually
done our show, Congressman Jamal Bowman, JB sixteenth Congressional District

(45:27):
in the Bronx Mount Vernon and neuro show right and
Yonkers and also okay, and a former principle, which you know,
I don't think enough people know that you were a principal.
I don't know. Are you going to go back to
being a principal.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
No, I don't think so. I may go back to
like coaching rising not just a principal actually open school, wow,
district school charge, the school district schools.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Wow. Wonderful, wonderful.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
So I knows that. Yeah, it was in my school
definitely working with the kids. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yeah, And I think that's what makes you so authentic
is that you've been doing this work and being an
activist in your own right for a long time. So
first of all, start out by telling that's how are
you feeling now that, uh, you know, I don't want
to I'm not gonna get you in trouble today, and
I'm not gonna get myself at Joe. I was getting raised,
I call names of people and everything. But now that

(46:26):
you were not re elected to Congress for the next term.

Speaker 4 (46:32):
Yeah, so feeling pretty liberated. That was the first feeling
I had after.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
Light. It's over. Not because I don't want to be
in Congress anymore.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
It's just because I can't be in a place that
just originalizes it humanized. I just can't function, Like literally,
I feel sick going to work in the place that
value certain lives over others. So, you know, ever since

(47:05):
October seventh, it just got to the point where everyone president,
down to our local city council people, you know, only
felt the need to uplift Jewish lives and rarely lives
and they weren't Palestinian lives slaughtered. And so you know,
I couldn't abide by that, and that's why I didn't

(47:27):
change my position during the race. So you know, we
ran a tough race, and I think we exposed to
a lot of people in terms of who a pack
is and what is about and how special interest can
get involved in our politics and come in and just
spend records amount of money to turn communities upside down.

(47:49):
So I think we exposed that, but liberated also in
a sense that now, like you know, kind of the
handcuffs are off a bit and I get to god
willing work in a lot of different sectors with different
people of different industries and and continue to do good work.
You know what I mean, The mission for liberation continues,

(48:11):
you know what I'm saying, So that is that is
never going to stop. So I'm feeling feeling pretty good,
pretty liberated, learning a lot, you know in terms of
you know, technology and AI and opportunities there, and you know,
excited for what the next chapter is going to be.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
People always say you need to run for office this
and that, And I see you as an activist that
was posing as a politician, right.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Because you you have the same spirit that I have.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Like we were staying on business writing for people, We're
not going to we're not going to.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
Beat around the bush. We're not going to half step.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
We're going to stand firm and we're going to stand
for our communities, even when it's against the powers that
be and just watching you, like when you became the congressman,
it gave me some hope. Okay, we got one of
us in the building, you know, But then seeing how
it was you fighting against a whole structure that should
have been supporting you, you know, even people that I

(49:10):
believe your own people that didn't really give you support.
It just it just it demoralizes a lot of us
at times, you know what I'm saying. And it's like,
are people like us actually supposed to be in those positions?

Speaker 3 (49:21):
Because I think we should be.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
I think there should be people who have the same
mind states and who have the same strength and the
same you know, energy that we have in those positions.
But I don't know if you know politics is actually
ready for you know, it's very it's very far between
that you see brothers like yourself, especially brothers strong men
who are affirmed and strong in their conviction, who stand

(49:45):
on what they stand for, speak for their communities unabridged,
you know, unapologetically, So speak to that.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
Yeah, I think we have to be in those positions,
and I think we should continue to run for office
and do what we can to get into those positions.
I think the context really matters. So the district in
twenty twenty that I won changed dramatically by twenty twenty

(50:13):
four when we lost. So in twenty twenty the district
had two hundred thousand additional black people in the district.
Then because of redistricting and fighting in the courts and
the special mass exactly. Yeah, So every ten years when
there's a census, the census comes out, people complete the census,

(50:34):
and then based on population, population growth or loss, the
district's changed. So in twenty twenty, we lost. The population
went down because we never did an accurate count, and
we lost the congressional seat. So because we lost the
congressional seat, they had to redraw the lines and withdraw

(50:55):
the district maps. And so the initial map that was
drawn in twenty twenty kept the district majority black. It
went through the legislature, they voted on it, Governor signed
into law dund it. All of a sudden, Republicans challenged
the map, said it was jerry manner, and then that

(51:16):
challenge went to the first level of course, the second
level of courts, the third level of courts. The challenge
was upheld at every level, and the final court, which
I believe is the Pellicourt State, sent it to a
special master who didn't know nothing about New York City,
didn't understand the contexts, drew some maps that took two

(51:37):
hundred thousand black people out of for the first time ever.
So now my district was no longer majority black, still
majority minority, but no longer majority black, and the white
population in the district was more likely to the primary.
I won the first reelection because they threw out two
tomato cans. And then twenty twenty four they brought in
like the best candidate they could find, someone that people

(52:00):
people like. They spent record amounts of money and we
had two hundred thousand less black people, and so so
we weren't able to win that reelection. But let's say
you or someone like us is in a situation anywhere
in the country there's a majority black district that needs
proper representation.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
People should absolutely.

Speaker 4 (52:21):
Run for office in those districts if they think they
because you know, in Congress is the.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
Most high profile I guess of government.

Speaker 4 (52:29):
But man, someone like you could get in the state House,
someone like you could get in a county.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Someone like you get.

Speaker 4 (52:35):
City council or or village trustee, whatever, there's a lot of.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
Power in those positions.

Speaker 4 (52:42):
And for our collective liberation, which is our mission, we
need power. We need political power, we need economic power.
And then the last thing I'll say on that is
just going back to the special interest piece. If if
we're not there, people like us are not there, then

(53:02):
the people who are there are going to be manipulated
to maintain the power structures that are influence right now, which.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Are power structures rooted white supremacy HM.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
And so because they're not people and they're ready to fight,
they don't have no, they don't have the character, they
don't have they they're they're the bourgeoisie. They're just in
there for the title and the position. And then the
last thing I say is historically, take the Civil rights
movement for example, those leaders you know, Fred Hampton, Quam Toy,

(53:37):
Doctor King, Malcolm X.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
They were not elected officials.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
So we have a lot of power on the outside
to continue to push elected officials to do.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
What got to be done.

Speaker 4 (53:47):
And I think that's our calling and that's what we need.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Well, I'm in the Blackish, yes, yeah, yes, I'm absolutely
apart and and I think that's the duality of some
of us that I mean, I'm in organizations like the Links,
like the you know a KA is like absolutely, I

(54:13):
mean we're we're in the black.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
I was like black people who are like elected CEOs
whatever that's just there for like the titles or whatever
those to maintain that structure.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
I would call them. I would call them like black
faces that are kind of like sellouts, right like I
would say that. I mean, you didn't say that, but
I would. But and I wasn't even about to say
I wasn't even going to try to defend being because
because there are people who are part of the black

(54:46):
boutheuasi that are willing to stand up, they fight. I
mean I think about like just this weekend coming up
right now, Uh you know, I'm traveling with Links a Ka's,
Deltas and others down to Philly. We are looking for
the low propensity, which we believe or high opportunity areas
to go into the buildings where you stepping over the

(55:09):
stuff and you in there, like with the community, where
somebody comes to the door with they joint out like hello,
like what you want, Like that's what we said that's
exactly where we want to go. There's some people who
is a bunch of us that are going. Then there
are some people who can't go for various reasons. They
doing something else, they texting, their calling. But then there
are other people who would never ever, ever, ever go.

(55:32):
So there is a mixture of folks that are in
all these groups. And I'm okay with whatever. I'm okay
with you being. I don't care what you are. You
could be a stripper, you could be in the bourgeoisie,
you could be whatever you want to be. But you
still have to have a social justice lens, right. You

(55:53):
still have to have something about you that says I'm
not just here to give scholarship to kids, which is good,
we want that, but I'm also going to speak out
about the conditions that make these children need scholarships. And
that's a that's a challenge that I have in some
of these places. When I be showing up in my
bourgeois with my Saint John suit on, and I still

(56:16):
want to bring these things up. They like here and
she come with this, but it has to be said.
And that's why we got to be in all of
these spaces. But no running for running for office is
not something that I'm I don't think I'll ever do it,
but I'm certainly not anywhere you're ready for it, And
I know that as you get older, it is probably

(56:37):
not a good idea to go try to run for office,
because one, you don't have the stamina to deal with
all of this craziness, and then you kind of get
set in your ways. You really need younger people who
have their finger on the pulse of the youth, and
also the intelligent intellect to be able to look at
things from you know, various positions and compromise and all

(56:59):
of that. I don't think fifty five, six, seven, eight
nine years old starting out in politics, you don't think so.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
That's going to be time. I mean, I'm forty eight
and i'd be tired. I had to get back in
the gym to make sure I was ready for my
own campaign. But you're right about the youth piece and
the older piece. And again, everybody has differents I.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Sent your start out. I'm not saying you should be continue.
I'm saying to get started.

Speaker 4 (57:23):
In one hundred percent. Everyone has different lanes. But whatever
your laying, you just got to be about liberation. Man,
and I'm in part of my frustration also to the
point that I was made earlier. There's a lot of
black elected officials who are not about liberation. There's there's
a lot of black caucuses who I don't feel about liberation.
And so for me, we need to be unapologetic about liberation.

(57:47):
That means our education, that means our healthcare, that means
our food security, that means jobs, that means entrepreneurship, that
means all of it. Like you want to call it reparations,
you want to call it something else. We got to
be about liberation.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
Whe Are our.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
Kids reading, who's teaching our kids, how we engage in parents,
how we engage in community. The fact that certain parts
of my district, usually the black and brown, usually the poverty,
don't have community. Since it's crazy, like you don't have
a community sent So I was very lucky, Like I
lived in East River until I was about eight. My

(58:21):
grandmother passed and I moved to like Upper east Side,
right Yorkville.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
Two different worlds.

Speaker 4 (58:27):
Man like East River projects right in the project, that's it,
that's all you got. You go to Yorkville ninety second
and second. Now I could walk to Central park. I
could walk to the museums and just be in the
museum looking around like I had. There was asphalt green,
there's a playstreet here, there's a little park, kid, there's
a big park kids mad just space for kids to

(58:49):
beat kids.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
And just how we got elected officials who are.

Speaker 5 (58:53):
Mayors, senators, you know what I'm saying, Like like Congress
people Assembly, people in our communities that they represent don't
have community centers and parks for kids.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
What are we talking And this ain't even a lot
of money, right, it's not even mad money the community.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Let me say something to you. I don't want to
cut you off. But we this past weekend were in
Georgia knocking on doors in South Fulton County and other
places around the city of Atlanta. And we went to
this one community. There was a bunch of us. It
was a bunch of celebrities and others, and a lot
of them, like Killer Mike and others, are people who

(59:36):
do community work all the time. So when like we
showed up, Jadakiss was with us. You know people who
always you can call on them to be involved in
issues and you know they really get or have a
connection to the streets. So we show up there, and
you know, we get out and everybody's getting ready to
go into the buildings. Now we're talking about like something

(01:00:00):
that's actually called a condominium. It's called condominiums, but it
is it's sort of set up like the projects. Like
we go inside of a building it's three levels or
whatever to get in there, and they point us to
team one, team two, team to hit all of these doors.
And as soon as we start approaching the doors, I'm looking,

(01:00:21):
I'm like, I don't know if we're supposed to be
going in these buildings. One they look they're falling up,
literally falling apart. I don't mean like falling apart, I
mean falling apart. No glass in the windows, no glass
in the sliding doors. But people are living there. People

(01:00:42):
have sheets up to the windows, people have mattresses up
to the windows. Dogs all looking out, pit bulls looking
out because that's their only form of protection. One building,
they told us not to go in it because the
staircase is basically needs to be demolished and you have
to know how to walk around certain things in order

(01:01:03):
to walk up the stairs without making it tumble down.
Like this is how black people and there are elected
officials that are responsible for this area and people live
like that, and they're saying this is condiment, and people
own some of these places in this neighborhood. And eventually
it's funny because when you work closely with people, you

(01:01:27):
can feel them even when you're not looking. So I'm like,
I'm not going to these people doors. I dare not
ask you to vote for anybody. I did not. I
did not, even though even though I know you need to,
but I still me personally that just showed up hearing
a black suv coming from New York. I dare not

(01:01:48):
knock on your door and say vote.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
But I did get peoples, right, But.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
I did get people's phone numbers so that I could
follow up with the mothers in the neighborhood to see
what we can do and how until freedom can go
back and support them. And one of the mothers was
like standing out there yelling and screaming, these people need help. Right.
So election time is called, and again you got it.

(01:02:15):
You have to participate. But but I was gonna say
about the feeling people. I turned around and I'm looking
for my team because I want to say to them,
I'm not knocking and I see my son Angelo and
Linda kind of walking down the side. They're not not
going to do us either, because we are we already
know we need a different We should have been bringing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Food, yeah, and resources, and you know, the communities needed something.
The guy was explaining to me how you know how
it's garbage everywhere and if they've been doing the best
they can and they try to provide, like he said.
The lady came out and she was just talking about
how this he has been abandoned and people have been arrested,
the person who was running. But it was just and

(01:02:58):
it felt like that we were don't.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Cut that off. She said. The people running for or
already in office were arrested literally for corruption in the neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
They were taking the resources and things like that. So
I just felt like that we were imposing upon these
people and we didn't bring nothing, were asking them to do,
and they needed more than that.

Speaker 4 (01:03:18):
You were the bourgeois in that context, Like you are
the bourgeoisie, like you coming here asking for my vote, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
My building is falling apart, my staircases fall about. We hungry, like.

Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
We may not have jobs, and if we do, we
don't have good jobs, it's hard for me to pay
my bills. Like that was the ultimate lesson for me
with my race as well, because we were asking people
who struggled through povardy year in and year out for years,
maybe even decades, to come out and vote, like, yes,

(01:03:54):
I am the kind of elected official who is going
to fight for all of that. Right, I'll turn over
build to fight for that. But if they don't see
change in their community after an election, they're not gonna
come out the next election. And that's what I'm saying, Like,
we do a lot leading up to an election, but

(01:04:14):
what's gonna happen on November sixth? Right, So we got
the fifth new Congress, new House, new Senate, new president
right on the six These people ain't gonna hear from
us again until the next election cycle.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
And that's the problem.

Speaker 4 (01:04:29):
And so for me, again, my big takeaway, big learning
was why do we only have twenty five percent turnout?

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
Is because we weren't.

Speaker 4 (01:04:38):
Engaging the people and literally feeding the people.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
For the last two years, and now we're asking them
to go.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
And it's not we as just in you, it's not
we just we, it's the system.

Speaker 4 (01:04:52):
The system is allowing one in five children to go hungry.
The system is allowing wealth to be concentraint in the
hands up point zero one percent of Americans. The system
is allowing massive conserration, system is allowing police brutality, systems
allowing food and security. The system and the people within
that system are allowing us. One of the first big

(01:05:13):
losses when I got to Congress is the loss where
we were trying to raise the federal federal minimum wage
for fifteen thousand hours. I learned during that fight is
it's still seven to twenty five hour. The federal minimum
wage is still seven to twenty five hour twenty twenty four.
And so you know, when you see people beside themselves

(01:05:34):
and frustrated and they don't care, there are reasons for that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
And so my hope in my prayer is as I
work on.

Speaker 4 (01:05:42):
The outside, we deal with this issue of poverty in
a real direct way, and whoever the president is, we
got to hold them in every other elected official accountable
to deal with that issue of poverty.

Speaker 3 (01:05:55):
And it's not only the president.

Speaker 4 (01:05:57):
So all these people talking about like, oh, you know,
Kama ain't gonna do this, she ain't gonna do that.
It's not just her, yo these same people don't even
know who they're member by Congresses. They don't they don't
even know how they engage the US Senate. They don't
know how to engage local like there's a lot of them.
And so that education on that engagement, but also the

(01:06:17):
organized and mobilizing day to day to deal with the
issue of poverty, of the poverty of the pocket, of
the stomach, and of the mind. That's what we got
to deal with, man, And we ain't doing that. We
we just we're not even serious about what we mean
serious about liberation.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
And you're one hundred percent right.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
So based on that, I just want to you know,
we we have conversations offline all the time and we talk.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
About the climate of the election. Black men in this election.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
You know, I've seen you very vocal, just as I
am online about how we need to be moving and
you know, we heard Obama talk about black men. We've
hed media, you know, we've heard different you know, conversations
on black men need to be doing this, and then
they are a conversation that you're not going to put
this on black men's back, We're not going to make

(01:07:03):
them response with there so many different conversations you know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
I heard you have as I did. We watched Lord.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Jamal came and was, you know, called Kamala out of
her name, and we responded to that, and you know
he actually called you say he wants to have a
debate or whatever. Just all of these things with black men, Like,
what is your take on how this in general black
men are dealing with this election in this whole cycle? Yeah, man,

(01:07:30):
I mean, you know, I get that black man a lot,
not a monolith. You know, we have different perspectives and
different opinions about politics and about people.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
Know, I get all of that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:46):
I'm not here to force black men to do one
thing or another thing, right, but there are certain elements
to this election in particular that had.

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
Me bugging out very early.

Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
On in terms of how black men were attacking you know,
Kamala Harris in support of Donald Trump, Like that that dichotomy,
that that that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:12):
Those that polarization there didn't make sense to me.

Speaker 4 (01:08:17):
Like I was just bugging off of that, right, Like,
so we got a black woman and someone with a
history rooted in white supremacy and racism.

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
Just on that alone, what are we talking about?

Speaker 4 (01:08:32):
Like I'm voting for Kamala Harris, Right, Like, just on
that alone, you dig one layer deeper. Let's look at
you know her, her her history, right, you know, district attorney,
attorney general, US senator, vice president, soon to be president,
god willing. Uh, someone who was a was a scabbed

(01:08:56):
business owner. Uh, you know, got the donation from the pops,
went and let black people rent in his homes.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
Sexual abuser, right Like, So just the resumes to me
left no doubt.

Speaker 4 (01:09:11):
And then when you look at the policies, right, opportunity agenda,
overall opportunity agenda for black men, help with home ownership, investments,
in healthcare, investments, and entrepreneurship for everyone, but particularly black man.
He has no agenda like that. And by the way,
when he was president before the incited insurrection, h called
the election sitting the election was stolen and behaves like

(01:09:34):
a middle school child most of the time. And again
an abuser. So just on the who they are resume reputation,
black men, what are we talking about. There's no way
we're not going to vote for this black woman. But
then it's deeper than that, right, it goes into like,

(01:09:55):
it goes into us as a people. And in my position,
which is there's no circumstance ever where we should be
calling black women bitches in private or in public in
front of white people. No, that should never happen, right never.

(01:10:16):
But to go even further, man, this is rooted in history.
We haven't been allowed to really stand up for and
protect our women historically because of slavery and Jim Crow.
Our women were raped, forced to have children from their
slave master, weren't allowed to mother, they children, sold away

(01:10:39):
from their husbands, and families, experimented on when it comes
to gynecology lynched. This is what happened to our Black
women historically and what's happening to them now in terms
of you know, equal pay for equal work that's not happening,
bodily autonomy being taken away, in terms of you know,
reproductive rights, reproductive freedom, not chosen to be CEOs, very

(01:11:03):
few Black women on the hill in Congress as chiefs
of staff and leadership positions.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
This is what our black women go through every day
and historically in this country.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
And that's the reason why they want to say she's
not black, because you gotta be able. And it was
a very smart it was a very smart It was
a strategic move from the opponents, the whatever people want
to call it. On the other side, the Republicans, the
mag I don't know where it came from, but it
was a very smart move to try to remove her

(01:11:34):
ethnicity so that they can isolate that issue and not
have people feel a level of commitment to her because
she is in.

Speaker 4 (01:11:45):
Black men, right, black men, no hesitation. We went to
an event early after she was made the nominate. You
and I ended up at the same event together, all
black men. We disagreed on certain things from a policy perspective,
but I don't remember anyone in that room being on
some she ain't black anyway, but it was a whole

(01:12:12):
It was real black men in this right again.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
I remember that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
Again, disagreed on.

Speaker 4 (01:12:17):
Different policy things or whatever, but in terms of is
she black or not and are we standing for our sisters, there.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
Was no question. So real black man, it's no hesitation.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
But are being paid?

Speaker 4 (01:12:28):
Literally there's people being paid, and it's like, you know, man,
I don't know, man, And maybe I'm biased because I
know a little bit of the history, but also like
I'm raised by a single mom and I got four sisters, right,
So when you know a very well regarded, well respected activist.
A couple of weeks ago, as a black woman called

(01:12:48):
me and said, she don't feel safe around black Where
are we as black men? If that's I think.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
That's what that's me is that, you know, being around
black women and hearing that constantly and always being I'm
always giving pushback, Well, we love black women, love and
then over the years I constantly see it show up
in ways that this didn't make sense. I was on
a live conversation years ago during the pandemic while he
was fighting for Breonna Taylor, and as God got on,

(01:13:20):
the black man explained to me how that it was
false that black men weren't protecting black women, and I said, well,
black women are beating He said, if I beat my woman, right,
you know this is what he's a swear, you can
go along. He said, If I beat my woman and
I don't let let somebody else beat him, I'm still

(01:13:41):
protecting I said, so if you don't realize that you're
the issue who's protecting her from you? And he was
dead sitting there, and there were people, there were other
black men that came on there and said he was right,
and they were making him feel like what he was
saying so then and and and the fast forward to
now four years later to see somebody that we respect,

(01:14:04):
like Lord Jamal get up there and just for no reason,
somebody that I've been in close proximity with, someone that
I would consider to be a friend, to come up
there and call her name strictly because you might not
agree with a policle or whatever the issue was it is,
it just didn't merit that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):
You know, I'm glad that he, as a man, apologized,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
I appreciate you can't take I hear what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
It's hard to take once it's out there because we're
going to hear the apology or.

Speaker 4 (01:14:34):
That's how a white man calling me a nigga, calling
us a nigga and then trying to apologize to me,
it's the same thing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
But we appreciate the fact that he did apologize because
when called.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
Him out, like if people weren't calling him out, we
have apologized.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
But that's what I was going to say.

Speaker 3 (01:14:49):
I'm not saying that we corrected him so he called himself.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
But that's what I was going to say. Not only
did he apologize, the part that I appreciate is when
he said all of the criticism that I'm receiving is warranted.
So he wasn't out there like he's saying it's warranted.
And so I appreciate that because he called himself right,
like we all have biases. I remember one time I

(01:15:14):
was out with a friend of mine. We were at
Grace Baptist Church actually, and we went an event and
she's a Jewish woman, white facing Jewish woman, and she
and we were talking about something. Told my raising money
for something, and I said, well, my friend so and
so is Jewish. No, I didn't say that. I said
she knows the money, she could control the money. And

(01:15:36):
later on she said to me, let me break down
for you why this is an anti semetic trope, right,
And so it wasn't that she was saying I am
anti Semitic. She's just saying. We all have heard things,
or you pick up on attitudes, you say things that
you shouldn't be saying, and sometimes it comes out. Now
it's not as harmful as calling this person. But to me,

(01:15:58):
it's not as harmful because I'm a black woman. And
so hearing him call Kamala Harris a B word right,
but listen, listen to me, it is more harmful. But
to her understanding the history of the Jewish people, what
they have suffered, and how dangerous that trope is and

(01:16:20):
how it pretty much demonizes them. From her perspective, it's
equally harmful because when you have by when you say
things and you don't know the history of it, where
it came from. That's something I probably picked up from
somebody in the community, or a church person, or somebody
a long time ago that has been with me. And
of course my parents is like, where did you get

(01:16:42):
that from? Because that's not how they speak. So we
pick up more from outside of our homes than we
do sometimes inside.

Speaker 4 (01:16:49):
You're absolutely right, it was just to your point about
you know what, Lord Jamar represents you a black man,
godbody hip hop that should never come across your limit
in my opinion, and to be very transparent, I was

(01:17:10):
young and dumb and stupid at one point in my
life as a black man trying to holler at chicks.
And I've used that word as a young man trying
to because of some shit I heard of n w
A or so whatever it was. I don't even know
what got it in there. But the point is I
was young and a kid trying to holler at chicks
and use all kind of words.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
You know, a girl, we were.

Speaker 3 (01:17:31):
A word all day, you know what I'm saying. But
like we're older than that.

Speaker 4 (01:17:35):
We grow up and we learned and we evolved, and
we should not be doing that. As I'm forty eighty, fittes, No,
we should, you know, we gotta we gotta grow up.

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
A young girl just told me it was she was young.
She's a friend of ours. I can't remember who it is,
but it's worth telling the story that she's she got
to be forty five something. She's our friend, and she
said she was out somewhere the other night she turned
down a guy who started out cool, cool, but then
after a while he just started calling her dirty beads.

(01:18:04):
I can't remember who it was, and I'm like, what
is it in us? But as I told my son
the other day, there are a lot of men, not
just black men, but men in general. Wool's mama hurt them,
The ex girlfriend hurt them. When they were a kid,
the teacher talked to them and told them they wasn't
gonna never be nothing, And that may have been a

(01:18:25):
black woman or you know, some woman, and a lot
of that stuff is coming up because it's not been
addressed because black men don't focus enough, and men in
general don't focus enough on self help.

Speaker 4 (01:18:37):
And patriarchy, misogyny. It's all a part of American culture,
right to your point. And so yeah, man, it's it's
it's wild. But when this high ranking activist told me
she don't feel safe around black men she's a black woman,
that hurt me to my core, right because like, now,
you know, we could fight back, you know what I'm saying.

(01:18:59):
We could stand up for our sisters, We could be
there for them, we could work together, we can make
sure they are centered, right and if we're not doing
that now in this moment, And again, you don't have
to vote for just because she's a black woman. She's
a better candidate and she happens to be a black woman,
and she has a better vision for the country in
my opinion, than this guy, Donald Trump. And just to

(01:19:22):
slide to the political piece after, you know, just moving
on to the political piece, and what are we gonna
do November sixth or whatever, the day after the election
to hold her accountable and ourselves accountable? And that's the thing,
ourselves accountable. There's no savior in the White House. It's

(01:19:45):
on us as people participating in this democracy. So we
got a lot of whack ass elected officials right down
the street from us who sit on our city council,
village state. They trash, they're not doing nothing, and they
have money and influence that they could be using. We

(01:20:06):
got to put pressure on them next day after the
election and keep that going.

Speaker 2 (01:20:11):
I agree one hund what I want to say before
we close, because I know you got a lot to do.
First of all, are you guys going to have this debate?
Because I see, well, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:20:21):
We we told them Friday and and they went dark.
They ghosted us. So we love to see this. So
we followed up to see if we could do it
this week. I said Wednesday. Then I realized Wednesday wasn't good,
So we we're gonna try for Thursday. And notice how
they framed it, right, because they already know what I'm

(01:20:41):
coming with. Notice how they framed it. It was like
not a debate, a conversation. Listen, because those are those
are those are imperative. I want to sit in rooms
with other black men.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
We have to do that and have real dialogue, because
to do that, I think that's where we are. We
are in this space right now where there has to
be real conversations. It has to be intentional because when
when when I'm online, because I don't actually I just
don't believe that the end is a real place. So
a lot of these people are boxed. But there are
a couple of people that actually know that, people that
close to me, and they say things that are very

(01:21:15):
strange and confusing to me, and I don't I don't
know when this narrative, You know what I'm saying, it's
very strange, But I don't know when this narrative of
a man standing up to protect and stand for the
honor of a woman became made you lessons This is,
this is, this is this is on the internet when

(01:21:35):
they calling you simp, they call you this and that,
when I don't even.

Speaker 3 (01:21:39):
Know because I've never been that. I've been. I've been.

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
I've been a man my whole life, and I always
knew that women should feel comfortable and safe around me.
When I walked in my community, the old ladies felt
safe when they see me from right. That's that's what
that's what quote unquote gangster used to be in our community.

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
Little girls who felt like they can go to school safely.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
They weren't gonna be this expected when they see me,
When mothers seeing me, they feel like my kids are
gonna be safe.

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:22:04):
I got a d M from a young girl that
was hanging with us all week and her mother said,
I know my daughter is safe with you. That's what
men who looks like.

Speaker 3 (01:22:12):
But it's not. But I'm trying to tell you.

Speaker 2 (01:22:15):
If we live in Colward culture, culture shows something else
is how you can impose your will and your energy
and you're strong and you can make people feel less.

Speaker 3 (01:22:23):
And that's why that's why Donald.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
Trump even has a leg to stand on me because
that culture is what's being embraced now.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
So I just want to say that. But before we leave,
just tell me, tell us what is next for Jamal Bone.

Speaker 4 (01:22:37):
Yeah, so I guess we got to do more work
around Colward culture because that's crazy kind of what you
just shared with me.

Speaker 3 (01:22:43):
So again, right now I'm finishing out my term which
ends the ends the end of this year.

Speaker 4 (01:22:49):
I'm going to be looking at a variety of opportunities
public sector, private sector, education, healthcare, technology. I'm not ruling
out a run for off again. At some point it
probably won't be Congress. There will probably be something in
the executive seat.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Listen, not only that, right, And so I don't even
know why I said it, because I have too many
good friends in New York City. So I'm just gonna
I'm gonna take it back. I'm gonna take you back
because I don't know who's gonna do what. But I
know one damn thing, y'all better get on the same
page about who's running and who everybody is gonna support,

(01:23:30):
because I do not have the stomach to deal with
you running. This one is running, that one's running, and
then it turns into a whole thing.

Speaker 4 (01:23:38):
Correct, I'm not running for mayor, just to make that
real clear. But but the biggest thing I'm really interested
in we have incredible people, brilliant right hard in the
right place, doing incredible work all over the country. I
want to work on and figure out what does unity

(01:23:59):
and collaborateation really look like?

Speaker 3 (01:24:02):
Like?

Speaker 4 (01:24:02):
What if we figured out how to bring together? You know,
we've already done it and I've actually seen it happen,
And I want to point to the Woman's not to
trigger anything for Tamika, but the Woman's March movement at
that particular moment when Trump won.

Speaker 3 (01:24:23):
And I think it was a day after it was
a mass march and it wasn't. I'm sorry I messed
it up.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
The day after it was a call for a mass
mark got it. When did the big march happened?

Speaker 3 (01:24:36):
Thank you?

Speaker 4 (01:24:37):
But that moment and with Tamika and Linda and Carmen,
what was on was on was on breakfast that moment
that combined with when George Floyd was Lynch and everybody
in the street, that energy, that's that's what they think,

(01:24:58):
That's what I want on the harness, That's what we
got to hont That's because that moment, that's when I
first was introduced.

Speaker 3 (01:25:07):
I knew Linda before the first introduced to Tamika, and
it was just like this is the ship we need.
Like that was the movement, right.

Speaker 4 (01:25:13):
So part of my work in the next chapter is
to figure out how to bring that together, in addition
to the friends and supporters I've made across the country
as it relates to Palestine specifically, because this black Arab
South Asian, just Jewish justice and humanity unity that's possible.

(01:25:38):
I think, I think is the thing that's gonna that's
gonna defeat white supremacy and.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
People white people who feel marginalized.

Speaker 3 (01:25:46):
Body fighting for justice and humanity.

Speaker 4 (01:25:48):
Like that's what we got to be on because I'm
really clear, and I think we all are really clear,
like white supremacy is real, alive and well we are
colonized people, uh, and our brains and in our spirits.
And my focus is on decolonization, liberation and collaboration, and
if we get that right, we change the world. So

(01:26:11):
I'm gonna just keep trying to change the world.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
Congressman Jamal Bauman, my forever, forever Congress Yeah, absolutely, and
our friend, we love you, We thank you for joining
us today. You know, I thought we were getting ready
to talk about the rally, the MAGA rally, because you
said something earlier that uh, you know, we talked about
people who's educating our kids, and I was going to

(01:26:33):
say that at the MAGA rally it was people there
that educate your children right this past weekend. But our
conversation evolved even from what we thought when you came
through the door to be in so much more about
vision and I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (01:26:48):
Of course, let's keep it going.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
Thank you, thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
Shout out to our brother Jamal Bowman, Congressman Jamaal Bowman
for always coming with vision, with enlightenment. We're just things
that we need to talk about and it's coming from
the hip, being real and raw. So there's always a
dope interview when we have him.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
He's too too as you always say, like too masculine
or they want you to be like go along to
get along, I mean, And the public Advocate Jamini William
spoke about that a week before last in the interview,
about that masculine masculinity factor and how that in a
lot of ways is sort of missing from what is celebrated.

(01:27:32):
Not that they are not people within the Democratic Party
who are masculine, but what is celebrated, what is Yeah,
So I think in some ways that's something that has
been a strike against him, but it's always been what.

Speaker 2 (01:27:51):
I love about him because when I hear him, it
gives me the energy that I want to give forward.
And he speaks the same way I would. He's weeks
matter of factly, you know, and he doesn't bite his tongue,
he doesn't care if you agree with him or disagree,
he's made a position and he's an educated individual, and
it doesn't come from a place of this emotion or irrationality.

(01:28:13):
It comes from a place of just knowing what you're
talking about and just being able to understand right from wrong,
being on the right side of history all the time.
So once again, to loot to Jamaal Bowman for his service,
you know, and his his authenticity.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
And you know what, you gotta lose, lose for the
right reason. So I think that the way that he lost,
he was standing on principle. So that's the way you're
supposed to.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
Be standing on principal. That brings me to my I
don't get it today. And there was an issue this week.
You know, I've seen Chris Cromoll has a new podcast
that he's doing, and well, I've never seen it before.
I didn't know he was doing the podcast, and he
was talking about Kamala Harris, you know, he was he

(01:29:03):
was receiving some flak about him being critical talking about
her in a way and a lot of people, you know,
were giving him feedback that he didn't really agree with,
and he chose to respond.

Speaker 3 (01:29:17):
Now, I've never you know really ever had an issue
with Chris Cronmore.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
I thought, usually he has a fair take, but I
think just watching his new podcast or the podcast that
I just found that he had, I've seen that his
take is taken a little bit of a turn.

Speaker 1 (01:29:32):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
I think he's way more unhinged. And a lot of
times when people are unhinged and they're not tied to networks,
you just actually get to hear exactly how they feel,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
And Angela Rai spoke about when she talked about the
text message that she had with somebody on from CNN
and she felt disrespected.

Speaker 3 (01:29:56):
I'm just well, I'm saying, you get I do kind
of remember that she did say something about that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
And so when I'm when I'm listening to him, you know,
there was the original podcast that they say that he
was speaking on. I was listening, I was like okay.
You know, at first, I was like, okay, I had
seen this statement on a lot of different pages about
what he said, so I was let me, I said,
let me listen, because I don't like to just take soundbites.
So I listened to the whole interview and I was like, okay,

(01:30:25):
I hear interview I didn't even hear the part that
I was talking that they were talking about. But this
was the prior interview that he originally did that people
were responding to, and in his response to people critique.
In his critique, he decided to make a statement talking
about Kamala and he stated that quote unquote, you people

(01:30:46):
didn't even want her, you know, and she's not the
black female Jesus, and Obama is not the black Jesus.
And I was so confused at this content text, and
when I'm listening to it, I'm like, what would make
him say that?

Speaker 3 (01:31:03):
You know? So I put I responded.

Speaker 2 (01:31:06):
I posted on my page like unfortunately, you know, when
you give people the opportunity to speak freely, you get
to see how they really feel, what they really think,
you know. And a lot of people came and WAT said, oh,
you need to hear the context, and I had already
heard the context.

Speaker 3 (01:31:21):
I listened to the full interview.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
Then I listened to the response, and he was he
was basically saying that they weren't above critique right, that
these individual But the racist part of it was you
saying that you people, first of all, you people is
a racist trope. We know what you people mean. It
means black people. It means pretty much your lesson, and
you're in this category. And then when he said she's

(01:31:46):
not the female black Jesus and Obama is not black Jesus,
that's directly to black people. Because if you're saying you people,
and then you say she because you don't need to
tell white people that she's not black Jesus because they
don't believe in black Jesus anyway. So you're not talking
to anybody else other than black people. So this was

(01:32:06):
a racist comment, and it showed that it was racist.
And there's no way that you can go around this being.

Speaker 1 (01:32:12):
Racist, right Tabat Swan Bishop taverts Swan tore him up too. Yeah,
so same thing and he told Swan, oh, it's shameful
or something like that, and Swan ate him alive.

Speaker 3 (01:32:23):
Yeah, and he tried to come into my DM.

Speaker 2 (01:32:26):
So I wake up this morning and I see him
in my DM saying that he's an ally and I
got this wrong and it's shameful, and I said shameful.
I said, no, I didn't get this wrong. And if
you an allied, right, you would understand that you can't
use the term you people and then refer to her

(01:32:47):
as black female Jesus and refer to Obama as black
Jesus if you're talking to the Democrats, because this was
his position. I was talking to the Democrats. You know
you weren't talking to no Democrats, Chris. You know exactly
who you were speaking to. You know there's cold language.
You know exactly what you were talking about. If you
were allied, then you wouldn't know that those terms weren't

(01:33:09):
were off the table. You wouldn't know that you wouldn't
have to refer to them as black anything. Because Jesus
is Jesus. You didn't have to say to black Jesus.

Speaker 3 (01:33:16):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:16):
You could have just said they're not Jesus Christ. She's
not Jesus, and he's not Jesus either. They're not above
somebody critiquing them, and people would have been able to
say whatever they wanted to say. But you made it
very clear that you were speaking to a black demographic.
And when you speak to a black demographic and you
call them you people, it's racist. It is a racist trope.

(01:33:36):
It's no way around it. And then when I gave
you the opportunity and I said, I took what you
said and if you made a mistake, then you could
as a man apologize, right, And then he came back
and said, no, I'm not going to apologize because I
said what I said and I didn't mean those what
you taking my world out of context and it's a shame,

(01:33:57):
and he continued to double down.

Speaker 3 (01:33:59):
So what I don't understand. What I don't get is
how if.

Speaker 2 (01:34:04):
You're an ally quote unquote, why would it make you
feel any lesson a way to apologize to people that
the black people that you insulted. Right, if you're an ally,
you would say okay, as a white man, it is
not my place to tell black people how they need
to feel about being insulted. As as a white man,

(01:34:25):
if I'm an ally of black people, then I should
acknowledge that I did something wrong to those black people.
I didn't ask you to do anything other than to
say that I apologize for a mistake that I made.
But that means that you didn't make a mistake, Chris,
because you refuse to apologize. So as a white man
not being willing to apologize for insulting and disrespecting black people,

(01:34:46):
you are not an ally. You are nowhere near ally,
And I need you to understand that because we don't
need those kind of allies. You can't be an ally
to me when you can't even acknowledge and respect that
you disrespected me. We need you to go home and
look at what allyship looks like, Chris and understand that
what you did is not allyship. It is disrespect and

(01:35:06):
it's just racist. And until you acknowledge that, until you
make amends for that, I'm going to double down and
make sure that you understand that the terms and the
words that you use were racist.

Speaker 1 (01:35:22):
About that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:23):
And with that said, we've come to the end of
another beautiful episode of TMO. Shout out to Jamal Bowman,
my forever Congressman. That's my guy, stand firm brother. We
always got you. Shout out to our fans for continuing
to keep us going, to making us number one in
this podcast business because we are definitely number one.

Speaker 3 (01:35:45):
People that love us.

Speaker 2 (01:35:45):
We truly appreciate you continue to follow us, Send us
what you need us to talk about, let us know
what guests you want to hear. We cannot wait to
get your feedback. We love you forever. I'm not gonna
always be right to me. Get the maverages and I
could always be wrong. We will both always and I
mean always, be authentic. We are your host of t

(01:36:09):
M I Tamika and my Song's information, truth, motivation and inspiration.

Speaker 1 (01:36:14):
New name, New Energy SA

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