The Price of Equality: Fighting for Our Children’s Future Guest - Raymond Pierce - TMI

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Tamika d. Mallory and it's your boy my Son
that general. We are your host of t M I.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Tamika and my Son's Information, Truth, Motivation and Inspiration.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
New Name, New Energy.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
What's going on to Mika D. Mallory?

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Wow is wow? I mean, you know, there's things and
then there's things.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
So you got your coming to America hairdoo.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
You just really wanted to say that.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Well, Vanessa Bell Callaway has this hair dude that she
has in coming to America when she's like the wife
to be and she hops.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
On one leg and she wasn't the wife.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Oh yeah, yeah, he ends up going with the other girl,
but she was originally supposed to be his wife. And
that's the hair dude that she had. So yeah, you
got it. You got it.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
You think she is?

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Sure queue.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Is.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
But it's cute though, it's very nice.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Thanks hahaha, very funny, but it's true. Just way to
say that it looks like that.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
It does.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Told me three times you look like Vanessa Bell.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
No, I just thought about it again just now when
I was told he.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Thought about it again. Thanks. I appreciate you very much.
So let's get into our show topics. Today. You know,
elections have consequences. There's so many things happening at one
time that really speaks to how serious this presidential election
was and still is and will continue to be. And

(01:33):
you know, it's there's so many people who I feel
like are still either they just don't know, or they're delusional,
or they're just outright ignorant and dangerous and hateful. And
that's why I don't like to have anything to do
with people who profess their support for Donald Trump or
this administration, because I don't know which one of those

(01:54):
categories they may fall in. That I don't know that
I'm very delusional or that I'm actually down right hateful,
and so I'm not going to try to figure it out.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
But I get it.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Ebony Magazine and Black Enterprise and other outlets are reporting,
by the way, this is a very serious report, but
it ain't on CNN all day or I don't watch
MSNBC since Joyan Reid's been gone, but I don't see
it on MSNBC, or I don't see anybody sending me
MSNBC clips or anything. I'm not seeing like big spreads

(02:28):
in the New York Times. They're very concerned about Epstein,
I get it, Jeff Epstein, the whole thing. Released the
tapes or release the files. Got it understood. But nonetheless,
this is happening as well, and it is not a
big enough story. One hundred and six thousand black women
lost their jobs since April of twenty twenty five, one

(02:52):
hundred and six thousand, and those numbers are definitely underreported
because those are are jobs that the government or these
people who do the data, that they can actually track. Right,
So it might be government jobs, corporate jobs, and other
jobs that they can actually track. But if you really

(03:14):
think about how the same way that polling works, where
they poll certain communities during election time, and you and
I hardly ever get those calls one because you don't.
Do you have a house phone, You probably don't. I
have a house phone and it rings every now and then,
but I never ever pick it up, especially since the
last time I picked it up it was a woman

(03:35):
who was threatening me in the middle of the night.
But that's a whole nother thing. So I don't pick
up the phone, so we don't get polled. Right, my
parents maybe, But again that's showing only one demographic of
out of the population, right, one group of older set
of fos. But most people do not get polled in
certain communities. So if we know that looking at the

(03:58):
polling system, then you know, in order to find all
the people who have lost their jobs, their contracts that
may not be in this number, their you know, relationships,
business relationships. When you think about that, I'm sure the
number is more than one hundred and six thousand, but
one hundred and six thousand black women, it says. The

(04:22):
report says that we are, as black women, the largest
growing group that is losing jobs. Right, We're the largest
growing group of any group that's losing work. Now, let's
connect this to the political side. Folks said that the

(04:45):
criminalization literally of diversity, equity and inclusion wasn't going to
impact us, and that it doesn't impact us, and the
reason why I people like Teslin Figaro and Angela Rai
and others have been arguing that, yes, we understand the
whole thing. The data shows the data can finishing what

(05:09):
you're saying.

Speaker 4 (05:09):
Now.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
The data shows that white women and Latino women have
benefited from DEI, right, more than black women. Well, white
women definitely more than black women. That's what it says.
We get that but what you and I have been
saying on this show and in the world is that

(05:32):
whenever people decide to attack affirmative action, DEI, any of
these things, they're talking about black people. And the reason
why I know that black women particularly are impacted by
the rollback and again the criminalization, because that is what
they've done. They've almost made it a crime, and it

(05:54):
kind of is. It's at least it's illegal, right, illegal
they want from their executive orders and other things they
wanted to be completely illegal for a company to have diversity,
equity and inclusion. And shout out to some companies who
are like, we're not going back, We're sticking ten toes down.
But nonetheless, when they say that, they're talking about black people.

(06:18):
And we know this because I have a number of
friends who work in all different spaces again, government, corporate,
They have contracts with different companies, organizations, institutions. They are
all all dealing with something either they've lost their job

(06:40):
or it's shaky. They can feel, you know, you know
already when the writing is on the wall, many people
that I know. So that tells me that when you say,
oh no, you know, DEI is not going to impact
I knew that as soon as they this administration took
office and began a tech lacking diversity, equity and inclusion,

(07:02):
that black women were going to be hurt. And it
is happening right before our eyes. So one hundred and
six thousand, Now, let me see, because I want to
make sure I tell y'all they say that this is
all again, it's according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
So this ain't just Ebony Magazine and Black Enterprise made

(07:22):
up something to make Black women sound like we're victims. No,
these numbers are literally trending, and that's where we are.
Elections have consequences.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
They have a lot of consequences, and that's what I
was always saying about diversity, equity, inclusion. And when they
talked about the numbers, and they're saying this percentage of
black women were or black people were being hired at
these positions, and I kept, I kept trying to tell
them that the percentage that you're looking at, it's a
larger number because when you look at a percentage of

(07:54):
you're saying that ten percent of black people will get
in these jobs and forty five percent of white women. Well,
how many jobs of it if you're saying there millions
of jobs were getting higher, people were getting millions of
jobs based off diversity equity inclusions. So when you take
millions of people and you give ten percent of that, right,
see those that's about a million of our people who

(08:15):
will lose their jobs. And they're going after us first
because they've already identified in their mind that we are
the diversity equity inclusion people.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
That's what they mean. Even if they they may not
have even known that more white women benefited from this
are the from the DEDI programs, right, they may not
know that, But even if they did, if people are
actually paying attention and understanding what's going on in our society,
a large part of the cruelty of this administration and

(08:46):
people with this mag of mindset is that they do
not want to lose their grip on the majority in
this nation, and it is happening quickly as particularly brown
people are becoming the number one group in America, right,
And so a large part of their cruelty is about

(09:08):
sending their wives back home. So even if they did know,
even if their research told them that white women are fastly,
you know, growing in these different positions, that means because
I listened to jd Vance on TV one day say that,
you know, I don't think a woman needs to be

(09:29):
out of the household working at Goldman Sachs for eighty
hours a week when they have a family at home. Like,
are y'all fucking dumb? Do you hear what he's saying.
He's basically making a decision for women that they have
to be at home for X amount of time to
have more children because they need to control the nation

(09:50):
by being the number one demographic. This is very specific.
These people are being very intentional. So when they came
for DEI and maybe they did have all the research,
they knew all the things. They said, we can send
our women home, and we understand that black women are
the most educated and the fastest group of entrepreneurs in

(10:10):
the nation. So you know what, you know what these
black women are doing. They're working on these jobs and
building their eyeglass, eyelash, iPads, couchie pads, everything else kind
of business. That's what you're doing. Because I'm telling you
I looked up online two or three days ago the
best black owned company for probiotics and maxipads. Ten fifteen

(10:38):
different companies came up I spent my time on the
honey Pot on this company, reading about the founders. We
are the fastest growing group of entrepreneurs in the nation,
so and most of us are working. We're doing seven
different things, which means we have a job in the daytime,
and we're taking those resources and using it to fund

(11:02):
whatever idea, whatever our passion is is we build a business.
So they are being very intentional about making sure that
they cut off the head to spite the whole damn body.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Basically, it's really crazy. They say one hundred and forty
seven thousand new jobs have been created, yet unemployment for
Black Americans has increased even as white unemployment decline. And
that's what I was trying to explain to people. When
these people get a cold, we get pneumonia. And that's
what I kept trying to explain to you. This is
that we're always going to be the people who get

(11:36):
the brunt of the pressure. We're gonna lose the most
out of any one of these situations when you look
at just look at just look at this administration. There's
no black people in the administration.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
There's no right.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
That's the first place people lost jobs in the administration.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
And it's no black woman, and not one black woman
even nowhere near there. They still hiring white women, but
there's no black women that's been hired. So I'm just
trying to figure out, what are you. I think it's her.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
They're setting an example for what they're looking for. And
even the black woman that they did bring on is
what's her name? The woman who was over clemency.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
The pardons are Alice Marie Johnson.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Alice Marie, and I don't believe.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
If I don't, I could be wrong. But most of
his ours that I know are not paid. So she
is a position to where you as advisement and advisor,
but I don't believe it's a job.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
And I would say we have to give Alice Marie
Johnson all the credits in the world because she's doing
what you're supposed to do. You get an opportunity to
do good, you go and you do it. So we're
not suggesting that. I'm not suggesting that anyone who has
the ability to go into the administration and do something
for black folks not go. I'm not. I think if

(12:47):
you know that you could go in there and they're
gonna actually change policies and rethink taking away people's snap
benefits and attacking diversity, ecuing an inclusion and all of that.
Damn it, go do it so. But it's crazy that
the only place that they really want to invest in
anything that has to do with black folks for the

(13:08):
most part, is around the issue of clemency, pardons and
things like that, because they believe that as black people,
all you got to do is tell us that Ricky
got free, and that's all we care about. We're not
looking for massive business opportunities. Now I've heard, and I'm
actually going to attend a forum where they do show

(13:32):
you some of the things that's in the big beautiful
bill that people like me who make a certain amount
of money can get access to that can help you
make more money because the bill is about supporting the rich,
so once you make it into a certain category, then
you can benefit. And I wish that that's all I

(13:52):
cared about. I wish that all I care about is
how I can make it. But what happens is that
when my nieces and my nephews and my cousins and
my friends and people from the community can't survive. That
is a major concern for people who look like us,
and so no, we're not okay with one hundred and
six thousand black women lose their jobs. But because I

(14:14):
have a book deal or this or that and the
third then I'm not going through as much as the
next person. When when, to be quite quite clear, we
all gonna be hurt and in a minute, right like
listens rough out here. It's very serious. It's very serious.
So it is what it is. I don't know, nice,
I don't know. So that just brings us to another

(14:37):
you know, just oh Lord, have mercy. We're dealing with
a lot. We're dealing with a lot. This young lady,
Sanaya Cheatham in the Bronx died in police custody. I
got a call from Attorney Crump. I saw it a
couple of times on the news that something happened, but
you know, like everybody else, you don't want to jump
to any judgment, just waiting to see over a day

(14:59):
or two what would happen. By the third day, I
received a call from Attorney Crump saying, you know, this
young lady, it seems fishy. And even if it's not fishy,
this is exactly what he said to me. Something is
wrong with the timeline right, that was his whole thing.
Something's wrong with the timeline. I can't put my finger
on it. But it just so happened that we were

(15:22):
coming up on the anniversary of a ten year anniversary
of Sandra Bland, and Ben was like, you know, I
hope this is not one of those situations. But then
at the same time, it no matter what. The young
lady is deceased eighteen years old, got into a fight
in the community very near the precinct, actually like right
outside of the precinct, the forty first precinct, and the

(15:44):
cops was there to break it up, and they immediately
took all parties involved inside the precinct and put them
in cells. And you know, while so the team had
an opportunity to view the tape because we were demanding
that the tape be produced. Listen, when these officers, when

(16:04):
these police departments around the country, and New York is
no different because I think about in New York, I
forget the brother's name, but he had a pipe. In
two to three days, they can produce a video to
prove that they were not in the wrong, even if
the person didn't actually have a gun. But it looked
like it could have been or something like that. Three days,

(16:26):
four days they out and in some cases, like I said,
two days, they got a clip that they want to
show you so that it can calm people down and
begin to help the narrative shift in their favor. That's
what they do. Okay. So why is it that this
young lady was she died on July fifth, and the

(16:51):
tape was not reviewed by the team until July seventeenth.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
I mean twelve days of people I'm just waiting. No,
we don't trust you, So don't say, well, we told
you it was a suicide. We don't give a shit.
We don't trust anything you say because too many times,
too many things. We've watched videos of officers, correction offices
and police officers beaten the hell out of people. We

(17:18):
know what goes on, right, and so no, we don't
trust you. We want to see the tape, just like
you showed the tape to defend yourself and to provide
some evidence for yourself. So why we can't see the tape?
So cool? The team has the opportunity to review this video.
And you know, obviously Snaya, she definitely took her own life.

(17:41):
She died by suicide. But if you watch from the
moment that she gets in the cell, she's calm a
little bit, you know, you can tell she's agitated. But
then for I don't know, maybe ten minutes or so,
she is screaming at the top of her lung. She's screaming.
You could see it. She's screaming, scream even, hands flaring, screaming,

(18:02):
shaking the gates, kicking the gate, screaming, kicking the gate, screaming, screaming, screaming, screaming.
She takes off her shirt at some point in this
process and lays it down on the bench, And at
the time, at that point, you know, she's still just
kind of moving around screaming and yelling. But then after
a while, she's clearly saying something to them, right, And

(18:27):
I can't hear it because there's no audio. It's just video,
so I can't hear it. The people there, they know
what she was saying, but it looks like she's telling
them I'm gonna kill myself. That's what it looks like,
because she's actively like tying the knot and saying something.
And then she kind of stops for a minute and
is like, all right, you think I'm playing, I'm serious.

(18:50):
So then she ties the knot and she laid sits
down and it takes a couple of minutes and then
she you know, her life is she's lifeless. Right, maybe
nineteen minutes later, somebody comes by on what looks like
a regular inspection. Crazy, but the video camera is on

(19:15):
top of her, on top of her cell. There's a camera.
That camera you could kind of see what's going on
in another cell, right, but even if this happened in
a different cell, you would still be able to see
it completely. But nonetheless, when she was walking back and forth,
there's a blind spot when she gets back this way,

(19:36):
but in this cell, you'll see the entire situation. So
who is watching the cameras, because aren't they supposed to
have the cameras there for the purpose Because for.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
The most part, what you see, you've seen one camera's view,
and the camera view that you've seen probably just focus
on her cell. There was probably there's another camera that's
focused on the cell that you think they can only
see half because it's this camera's on probably east ceiling
that can go into eat sales.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
To they're monitor everything.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
So on that screen that they got they could see
in every cell.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
So nobody's watching it.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Obviously not if she if she was able to take
her life and then lay there for nineteen minutes, then
nobody's paying there.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
There's about a twenty twenty two, twenty three, twenty four
minute situation. Yeah, I'm and I'm not giving an official
number because the attorneys. I'm just going by what I
kind of counted.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
And that's and that's an issue, you know, if police.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
But I know for sure nineteen minutes is a real
thing because I know for sure.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, I'm just saying that's supposed to be care custody
and control when they when they those police officers side
that precinct, you're in their care custody and their control.
And if you're able to take your life after screaming,
you don't. First of all, the police don't know your
mental state, right, they don't know, they don't know anything
about you, so they put you in a cell. They
don't know if you've clust your folk. They don't know
what you're dealing with. So when you're making noise, they

(20:56):
should supposed to be aware, Okay, this person might be
dealing with that. I don't know what that person's dealing with.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Might be drugs, might be anything. I mean, like you said, Claust,
the phobia, it might be mental health. You don't know
anything about this person.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
So when you're supposed to say, hell, are you okay?
And once a person and I don't know, like like
you said, you don't know whether or not she says
she's going to take her life. Right, If a person
says that at that point their threat to themselves. They're
supposed to be on suicide wise, they're supposed to be
in a place. You're supposed to take anything that they
can hang, used to hang themselves, shoe strings, all of

(21:31):
these things you're supposed to take away from she had
that shirt. You're supposed to take like these things.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
This is These are protocols that's supposed to happen. Now
they have. There's been some statements and at least one
other person says who was arrested with or who was
in the jail. Let mean I say whether they were arrested.
Somebody who was in the jail did say that they
heard her say I'm gonna take my life if you

(21:55):
leave me in this cell by myself. Right, somebody says that, right,
this is what I heard this word on the street.
I don't know that that will come to fruition in
a real investigation, you know, later on, But that's what
they say. I'm just telling you based upon what I saw.
It looks like as she's doing, and she's informing them

(22:17):
by yelling that this is what's going down, and nobody
is looking. The camera is on top of her head.
You can see every second of her being in there.
How is it that nobody looks to be like, what's
going on? Because once she's yelling. I mean, I don't know, so.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
I know this is rough, you know, but did the
police carecuttingy in control?

Speaker 1 (22:49):
All I want to say is that God only knows
that our mental health, what we're going through. Like I
wish there was a world where she didn't have to
be arrested over a fight. I wish there was a world.
But people will argue, you can't. You don't know. The
cops don't know. I don't even see them searching her. Well,

(23:11):
like I don't see that. I don't see a major
search pat down. It's just in the cell you go.
They will say that that's because they wanted everybody to
calm down. That's what they'll say, you still got to mind,
the protocol still has to be. You don't even know
what the fight was about. You don't know not that.
It's just we gotta do better. And I and also

(23:37):
the young sister, God bless you, young sister. You know,
whatever she may have been going through, whatever she was feeling,
you know, it has death by suicide or unliving people
unliving themselves has no face, no name, no dollar amount
that they have, no bank account status, no status in

(23:57):
the world. You got people that are war walking around
looking like they, you know, worth ten million. You got
people who actually are worth ten million, and you got
people with ten dollars all suffering through the same kinds
of mental health challenges. And we just we just have
to do better as a society. We absolutely, absolutely to

(24:21):
the Cheating family, our mom, Thomasina, Cheetah, and the whole
community out there's a bunch of folks, the United Black
Justice Coalition, I think, and if I said that wrong,
please excuse me. But they have been out there with
her from day one, with the family calling for there
to be you know, transparency. So there's that, and I'm

(24:44):
sure the lawyers will update us as they continue to
walk down this path with Sonaya's family. So that speaking
of mental health, this brings me to my thought today.
You know, I was watching a video Lizzo. I like Lizzo,
so I pay attention to her a lot, and she
was talking about how thin presenting she called folks thin presenting.

(25:08):
I would say, thin bodied individuals criticize bigger body people,
and she feels it's wrong and that people should stop
doing it, and you know, and she just talked about
how harmful it is that people, especially people who used
to be bigger and now they've become thin, and the

(25:28):
way in which they criticize smaller individuals. And she was
basically just saying, you know, people should should not talk
down on these folks because you don't know what their
journey is or what they're going through. And you know,
and she went on with a bunch of stuff. Now
here's my thing. I wrote down some stuff. In the
black community, one in two adults are obese. Forty nine

(25:53):
point six percent of our people. That's crazy are OBEs.
For black women is fifty six percent obesity and thirteen percent,
almost fourteen percent are severely obese. Black men are suffering
from obesity. Around forty one percent. So I'm holding that

(26:19):
as I'm saying this next part, that I understand Lizo's
point of advocating for larger body people not to be shamed,
right because when we just finished talking about what's going
on with the mental health of people in our community,
we have to be really mindful how we make people feel. Right,

(26:42):
So I respect that. I also think that these obesity
numbers are important because our communities are dying quickly because
we are unhealthy. And it's not just people who are obese.
It's people who are more thin that are also unhealthy
because of the fried foods and the soda drinking and

(27:03):
the alcohol drinking and whatever else. It is everything anything
not resting, you know, just eating too many sweets and
all of that. So obesity is a thing. Now, not
everybody that's obese it's because they're not healthy. Some people
have thyroid issues, some people have healthy well, well, I
meant to say because they are self health self because

(27:25):
they are self sabotaging. Basically, some people it is because
they literally have a health condition that they're battling. But
nonetheless obesity is carrying in it the cancer, the diabetes,
and the hypertension and all the things that our communities
suffer from and how we die at very very alarming rates.

(27:48):
So holding that and understanding that it is something that
has to be discussing. I don't know who's the right
person to discuss it or where it's supposed to happen.
That it does not feel super offensive, but I do
know that it has to happen. I would just like
to say though, that even with the person like me, right,
and this is my thought of the day, even with

(28:11):
the person like me who is more thin than big, right.
But as time is going on now at forty five,
we talk about on the show all the time, I'm
growing in ways that I never had before. I never
had rolls on my back. I never had a stomach
that won't flatten, you know, I never had these things.
My you know, hips and different things about me has

(28:33):
changed significantly. And old things that I used to wear
that I wore for years it's a rap and it's
not going back because my actual bone structure has changed.
But what I don't appreciate is that when I bring
it up to people like dang, I got it, I'm
working out, I'm dyeting, or I'm I can't eat that
cake or I can't do this, I can't do that.

(28:53):
People look at me and they'd be like, oh please,
like what's wrong with you? Are you going through some
kind of body dysmorphia? What's your problem? Girl? Please? Ain't
nobody want to hear that? And it's like, why are
we so dismissive of other people and their situations? Like
and and try to make people feel like because you're
a thin person who wants to either stay healthy or

(29:16):
maintain your weight or lose weight, they're shaming in that
as well. So I just feel like it's all around
because just because somebody else has a stomach that's bigger
than mine, if I say something like man, I gotta
get this stomach down or I'm working on my stomach,
Oh my god, it just sends them all please oh girl,
oh oh lord. And I just feel like, damn, let

(29:37):
me be. Let me also express what it is that
I'm feeling that just because I may not be obese
does not mean that I'm not also dealing with my weight.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
And it makes sense, you know, but a lot of times,
like you said, people will look and feel like you've
better off than them. You know, they probably feel like
this struggle is worse than yours.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
And it's not actual struggle Olympics.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yes, it is the struggle, and they actually don't know
what you're going through to try to get to your ways.
They don't understand that you're especially when you're used to
being a certain way and you start to see weight
come on you at a certain time. I go through
the same thing, like I had a all away six pack,
like fighting to get this six pack back, like oh
you already, I'm like, nah, this six pack incoming, Like
I gotta really fight at almost fifty years old, Like

(30:20):
trying to fight to get a six pack back is
a lot and a lot of people look at you
and think that because they weigh more than you, or
they heavier than you, or they used to they're usually
heavier than you. So it's a real thing, and you know,
I understand your position. But for the most part, people
are gonna look at you and think that you're crazy
because you're gonna always make it seem like you weigh
six hundred pounds.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
And you don't want you don't be carried six hundred
pounds on my back. But you know, that's a whole
different days thing. I mean, it's it's the weight is.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, as you get past signific past forty, anything past forty,
you start realizing it just don't come off like it
used to, Like you know, prior to I'll be going
back to over when I used to do workouts and
I was personal training, and I've been like, I'm trying
to get to that, and I don't care how hard
you fight. At a certain age, it don't get right
back to that. Now you get close, Like I'm seeing

(31:11):
it grow because I'm back into my workouse thing and
I'm doing everything I should, so I'm seeing it. But
now you got to completely eat. I never had to
worry about what I ate. Like, it's no way I
used to eat rice and all this stuff that was
my thing. Now you can't.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
You just can't eat a little bit. You can't consume it.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
It will completely blow you.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Up, it will. It will. Well, let's go on to
the next Listen. Be mindful of how you make people,
whether they're thin or bigger bodied presenting feel because people
are dealing with stuff no matter whether they're big or small.
It's a lot of people dealing with issues around their
way and trying to maintain healthy happits and healthy lifestyle,

(31:53):
but we also need to keep in mind that obesity
is a real issue that's killing our communities. And so yes,
we should be healthy, and I don't think we should
shame people, but we definitely have to make sure we
keep talking about what obesity is doing to us.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
And that's a fact on that. So we have a
music segment today. I thought it was very appropriate as
we talked about age for me to talk about this
album and this group who are elders actually in this
space right now, the Clips. The Clips album is amazing.
Shout out to Pharrell, Shout out to Malice, Shout out

(32:31):
to push your tea, Like this is one of those
albums that you it's vintage. When I talk about ages vintage,
it's vintage hip hop, is vintage rap, this chemistry. I
haven't heard Malice rap like this in a long time,
you know, since he went to church. When you but
just listening to the lyricism that you can just tell

(32:53):
that they took the time to craft the lyrics. It
ain't just somebody that just went into the studio and
had to be and they did something catchy and the
words wround this. These were crafted lyrics and the beats
matched it. Shout out to my boy ab Loba, who
was one of the on one of the tracks, The
Inglorious Bastards Abage from Philly, a real good friend of

(33:14):
mine's and we actually came into this game together, so
and he's been with the clips for years. Shout outs
also shout out to stove God Cooks, who got one
of the most incredible hooks on there. Na's got a
crazy verse on it, but it's it's one of those
things that you can listen to from front to back,
and I just want to salute them for being eldest

(33:35):
statesman in this game and still rapping with this level
of skill, you know, with intention, with precision, with you know,
you don't hear bodies of work like this no more
like I very rarely see bodies of work where people
take the time and you just Pharrell like crafted these
these beats and you could tell it it's been over time.
I was listening to a couple of their interviews and

(33:56):
they said probably for like two years. Shout out to
Kendrick Lamar, who got dope verse on the album. It's
it's it's just it's for me. You know, if you're
a lyricists. If you enjoy lyrics, if you enjoy skill,
if you enjoy just substance and craftsmanship, then this album
for you. So shout out to the Clips. This is
one of those ones.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
Well, I know some of the people you just named,
but I have never heard of the Clips.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Saying you heard the Grind and you've heard of these songs.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
I have to hear what we're gonna play you. I've
been trying to figure it out. I just don't know.
Oh well, but I'm sure somebody will tell me. But
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
I can't shout out to the Clips because they was
born in the Bronx.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
And maybe it's because y'all are so much older than me.
That's probably what it is.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Okay, No, I'm only a few years older than you,
and I think I'm probably wanted to know.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
You're almost there. I'm not. I'm halfway.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, that's what I'm trying. What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (35:00):
So much older?

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Why don't you anyway?

Speaker 1 (35:02):
All right? So that brings us to our guest of
the Day. We actually recorded this particular interview a few
days ago, but it's so important. We're talking about education
in America. Make sure you tune in. So today we
have the pleasure of being joined by a brilliant brother
who does a lot of work in education space and

(35:26):
also fighting for the civil rights and for social justice
and for issues related to black folks. And I think that,
you know, as we talk about some of the political
ramifications in this moment, it's important for us to make
sure that the forefront of the conversation are folks who've

(35:46):
been working in this space and fighting for equity regardless
of who is in the White House. And there's no
one that I could think of who's better in the
space of education, particularly dealing with our young people. Then
mister Raymond Pierce. Raymond Pierce is the President and CEO

(36:07):
of the Southern Education Foundation also known as SEF, and
today we're going to learn a lot about what is
happening in the arena of education and how our communities
are impacted by some of the Trump administration's policies and
some of the things that they're doing. So thank you,

(36:28):
mister Pierce for joining the TMI Show.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
Thank you for having me, Tamika, Thank you absolutely.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Now I know there are some other really important accomplishments
that you have that I would love for people to
know more about. So why don't you tell us about
what you've done in the government and also in other
ways in education, you have held really important positions. Why
don't we talk a little bit about your expertise.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
Well, Tamika, I'm old. I'm sixty six years old. I've
been around for a little while. But right out of
law school, I had the honor of practicing as a
civil rights attorney in Little Rock, Arkansas, mister John Walker,
who was the person who inherited Thurgod Marshall's case in
the Little Rock School desegregation case. So I did that

(37:15):
in nineteen eighty four. I've got to meet giants in
the field. I actually got to meet Daisy Bates. If
you know your history, I spent a lot of time
with Daisy Bates, who marched a Little Rock nine nine
black children to Central High School with white folks out
trying to stop them, and then the governor of Arkansas,
Governor over Falves, calling out the state National Guard to
stop black children from getting an education. I mean, this

(37:37):
is real history. In fact, I actually met Governor faulbas
and I didn't know who he was. And my boss,
mister Walker, I said he said, right, that's Oliver Fabs
And I said, who's over Falbas? And he actually got
angry with me. He said, that's what's wrong with you,
young people. You don't understand your history. He said, that's
the man who tried to stop your people from getting
an education. So that was back in nineteen eighty four five.

(38:00):
So yes, I started my practice as a professional right
out of law school, doing school desegregation work and doing
employment discrimination work, basically being a civil rights attorney representing
black people in a variety of ways in which our
people are discriminated. After that, I kind of sold out,
sort of say it went corporate with a big fortune
fifty company on the other side, big defense contracted aerospace

(38:23):
defense contractor, and did quite well. But I did serve
as chairman of the Education Committee for the Cleveland branch
of the NAACP in my hometown of Cleveland, Ohio. And
round about that time Governor of Arket saw where I
had just come fro up, started running for President Bill Clinton,

(38:44):
and I helped out. He was elected and I was
appointed the deputy Chief of the Civil Rights Division at
the Department of Education. So I was blessed with an
opportunity to serve in government to do something that was
near and dear to my heart, and that was addressed
education policy. I was just concerned that education policy for
black folks had been reduced to the subject of busting.

(39:07):
And maybe young folks don't remember that era busting, where
we were desegregating our public schools and moving black children
from one side of town from another side of town,
and white children to another side of time. But basically,
you know, black folks lost a lot and that we
gained a lot, and Nicole Jones talks a lot about that,
but I at the same time, you got to be honest,
black folks lost a lot. A lot of Black schools

(39:29):
were shut down. You know, Black teachers lost jobs, Black
administrators lost jobs in this whole desegregation process. So I
when I got the opportunity to go to Washington, d c.
And serve as the deputy of the Civil Rights Division,
I jumped at that. And so I was able to
go from corporate back into the civil rights world, but
this time being paid by the federal government to do it.

(39:51):
So I did that, and when the administration ended, I
went back home and went back to the corporate side
as a corporate attorney to a couple of may at
a major law firm. And then I had the opportunity
to become dean of a law school at one of
our nation's historically black colleges and universities. I was dean
of the School of Law for seven years at North
Carolina Central University, one of only five historically black law schools.

(40:14):
And that was great, and that was fun, some of
the most enjoyable times in my life. So I did
that for seven years and then went back to the
practice of corporate law. And then I was asked by
my friend Hugh Price, who ran urbanly for many many years.
He said, right, and the Southern Education Foundation. I was
looking for a new president and black folks to catch

(40:35):
a hell. This was like the right after the first
year that Trump was elected in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen,
somewhere around there. He said, the Southern Education Foundation has
always had that legacy of being one of the front
lines challenging segregation and education. Somebody's got to go back
down to Atlanta and sit in that seat and get

(40:57):
the Southern Education Foundation back on the front lines. And
I like the challenge. So I took the challenge, and
I did it, and so that's why i'm now, and
it's been fun. I had no idea that we'd be
in the kind of fight around right now where we're
having to actually descend the very civil rights laws that
black folks fought and died for. I mean, the nineteen

(41:19):
six four A Civil Rights Act, the Voting White Sack,
the Fair Housing Act. I mean, these are laws that
you know, black people marched and prayed and fought for
back in the fifties and sixties. These are the civil
rights acts we're enacted by Congress that now this current
White House believes that they can just dismantle with an

(41:39):
ink pen. And so that's not something that I thought
i'd find myself doing on you know, I want to
retire one down sixty six years old.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
So you're telling me that Trump is not helping black people,
No way, Come on, Raymond, No, these laws are not
helping black people. You're seeing it is that.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
You know, brother, they're some folks. I mean, I'm in
eastern North Carolina right now. I'm in East I'm I'm
I'm on the coast. I mean, I've been blessed. I'm
sitting here on the waterfront and everything. My office is
in Atlanta, but you know today I'm working from home.
And if you know much about the Carolinas and the
eastern part of the United States, you know that's a
large concentration of black people out here. Large concentration. I mean,

(42:23):
this is this is where the plantations were east of
Highway ninety five. You know. You know that all the
way from the Maryland Eastern Shore, all the way down
to Saint Simon's I all the way down to Florida.
That's where all these.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Past is from eastern North Carolina. My dad is from
Run Rapids, North Carolina.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
Oh, I know, rolling up raptis that's good people up
from that town talk about it. Yeah yeah, rollo rappers. Yeah,
good black folks ro rolling No Rapids. But you you
you go back to roll No Rappers right now and
you count the number black people who support it.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Donald Trump, who argued me down, I couldn't believe it.
I was like, what are you talking about? It's like
I'm with Trump said, I just couldn't believe it.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
Well I am. After that election in twenty twenty four,
in November, I understand now why I understand I understand
now we may be getting off the subject. My sign,
my sign, you're getting me to go on off track here,
but yeah, you know, I'm beginning to understand how Democratic

(43:31):
Party just didn't really have enough for black people and
that as you are, as I heard on your podcast,
our issues have gotten so lost in the sauce with
other folks, other so called social justice issues, that there's
a small there's a percentage of black folks that Trump

(43:52):
got that sees that that's not for them. So yeah,
to answer your question, Yeah, but no, these folks in Washington,
d C. They're serious, and I've learned that. I mean,
we went total told with the litigation at a time
when nobody else was challenging them, and we may have
been victorious in this first round, but these people are serious,

(44:17):
you know, in terms of how they have such a
disregard for not just for black people, but that disregard
has untapped or unleashed or unsuppressed a culture that was
comfortable with the enslaving of people. You know, that culture

(44:40):
has never really died away. I mean they you know,
slavery couldn't have happened just because there was money and
people had to be comfortable with it, and I see
now that that sentiment, that comfort that you know, you
can actually enslaved people or even after the war ended,
civil war ended, you know, reduced them to third class

(45:01):
citizenship by putting up signs to say, hey, no, you
drink from this water fountain. You drink from that water fountain.
That's a comfort level. And I don't think that's gone away.
I don't think has gone away, that's right.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
So what exactly do you guys do at the SEO
the summer An Education Foundation.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
And to answer that question, my son, you have to
put it in a historical context. And the sn Education
Foundation actually has its roots in what you might remember
from your history books as the Freeman's Bureau, okay, and
the Freeman's Beer was actually the real name of the
Freeman's Beer was what the Bureau of Abandoned Lands, Refugees
and Freedmen. And so when the Southern when the Northern

(45:40):
Army was coming up right Ryan, right now, when General
Sherman's Army was coming up from you know, Savannah, after
they had smashed Atlanta, and you know Sack Memphis first
went to Atlanta and then that whole march back up
to Washington, d C. Where you know, this Confederate Army
that people just herold and this guy in Washington, DC
wants to rename all these sports after these federal generals

(46:00):
down here. They actually ranked. You know, the Confederate Army
really didn't put up much of a fight. And as
they were fleeing and abandoning the lanes, you know these plantations,
black folks started following the army going on the north
saying we're getting out of here, I start following. And
so they started setting up settlements around and the Army,
the Bureau of the War Department, actually did a report

(46:23):
on what because that by then then, you know, the
Union Army figured they were going to win the war.
So they were trying to figure out what to do
after the war was over, and that was okay, we're
going to do with all this population of people who
are now free. And so one thing was to create
this bureau to come up with health care opportunities for
these people, get them educated, schools, and get them trained

(46:43):
so they can be a part of the the economy
that no longer is going to enslave them but actually
had to pay them for this labor. Well, that part,
the education part, would had three parts to it, and
that was build schools in the South, trained teachers, sent
them to the South, and get books down to the South.
And that was going on during the last months of
the war. And then philanthropy took over rich white people.

(47:06):
Basically the abolitions you know the history, you know, the
anti war, the anti slavery people, the anti slavery societies
were largely in Massachusetts of state, New York, Philadelphia were
the Quakers where you remember the Quakers who really supported
you know, Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas and all that. Well,
a millionaire people, white folks up there started getting behind

(47:28):
this effort. They wanted to scale it up, so they
started getting people who have books to ship them to
the South, trained teachers and build schools, and so a
lot of foundations grew up out of that. The Peabody
Fund George Peabody, considered one of the wealth has been
of the nation eighteen sixty seven, created what is called
the Peabody Fund, which is now part of the Southern

(47:50):
Education Foundation. And he was not an anti slavery guy.
He was more of a practical guy. And his argument
was that is.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
That the man who owns it or started the Body
Hotel in Memphis.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Pe Buy in Memphis, Tip and JOHNS. Hopkins, the Peabody Libraries,
the Peabody of State. All that money came out of
from George Peabody and then his son, George Foster Peabody.
But his argument was that the United States was getting
behind economically, that you know, the Europeans are making money
with machines, you know, the industrial Revolution was coming, whereas
the United States was, you know, stuck on this a

(48:24):
grariing economy, and they got half the labor and slave
and he said, you know, you got to end the
slavery stuff and get these people educated. So they came
wake we could start making money. So he put up
a million dollars to build schools, trade teachers and buy books,
and then the Slater Foundation started. John Slavery he was
more of an abolitionist. He was like a religious guy
who thought, you know, slavery was evil, like John Quincy

(48:46):
Adams and all you know was a wim Lloyd Garrison
all that. You know, the big abolitionists back in the day,
who Frederick Douglas you know, was around. He put up
a million dollars a few years after that, and then
Anna Jean's considered one of the wealthiest women in the
nation at the time. She was a Quaker out of Philadelphia,
Philadelphia area, in fact, Temple University's hospital. That's the Jeans Land.
And if you know your history, when Harriet Tubman and

(49:08):
folks would get across the Mason Dixon line, if they
can get it up to Philadelphia, they can get to
the Jeans Land. The slave catchers wouldn't come on that
land because Anne Jenis she ran all that stuff and
had no you know, they had no, no tolerance for
slave catchers and slavery. So she put up a million
dollars to create an army of black women's school teachers.
You all know that history to Meca, google up the
Jeans teachers. So the Gens supervisors and Virginia Randolph considered

(49:33):
the queen of Black teachers, came out of Virginia. Virginia Randah, Yeah,
came out of Virginia. So eventually all of these foundations
that was doing all this work eventually started pushing to
get it's sustained because they couldn't keep paying for all
these books and teachers and schools. So when the war
ended and black folks were elected to office in huge numbers. Again,

(49:54):
you know your history. During their reconstruction period, black folks
held a lot of office in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Tennis.
We were congressmen, had a governor, and a whole lot
of state senators and state representatives. The number one policy
that they were you know, they were pushing for. The
other number one bill that they were introducing into legislation
was to raise taxes to pay for these books and

(50:17):
these teachers and these schools that the rich white folks
were paying from up in the north. And so, as
doctor James Anderson says, public education in the South is
the gift of black people. It was black people who
led the movement below the Mason Dixon line to get
what is now public education. So once that was done,
it lasted for a while, and then of course white

(50:37):
folks started bringing trying to separate the funds and say
taxes for black schools support black schools, and taxes for
sport white schools. The philanthropic organizations fart as for as
long as they could. They got baked in, and then
all those foundations got consolidated in nineteen thirty four to
form what is now the Southern Education Foundation, and we
have carried on that mission to provide to push forward

(50:59):
and create education and developed education opportunities with black folks
in the South and quite frankly nationally now because of
the diaspora around the country. So our work has been
an education pedagogy, education administration. Again, the genis teachers the
most effective way to minister of public education. But we
got into this litigation stuff back in the late forties,

(51:21):
in the fifties when Thurgood Marshall started, you know, challenging
Jim Crow and so the Southern Education Foundation found ourselves
bankrolling him, just like we did W. B. De Boy
who was one of our fellows. Booker T. Washington was
on our board. We've always kind of worked in the background.
Benjamin Mays ran Morehouse pretty much ran the Southern Education
Foundation as chairman of the board for like twenty years

(51:43):
while at the same time advising Martin Luther King. So
we've always had that, you know, that that part of
us to challenge, you know, the constitutionality of inequity in
public education. I just didn't have to do it again.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
So your fund, can you tell us a little bit
more about the technical aspect of it, how it works,
how do people apply for funds or what is your
top priorities? And is the fund experiencing any challenge right now?
You know, with all that we see happening in the nation,

(52:22):
are people still giving? Are you expecting people to give
or are you working with an endowment that is long
enough for you to be able to sustain.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
We're working with an adowment that is long enough for us.
It's a say okay, And we're an operating foundation, so
we don't give money away like we used to. I
think the last time we gave any significant money away
was in the seventies, maybe the nineteen eighties, and those
grants were probably twenty five fifty thousand dollars. And now
the average grant coming out of the Southern Education Foundation
is very limited. Issues that we're working on and that's

(52:54):
our early childed education effort we've lashed and those grants
are five ten two thousand dollars max. So no, we're
not a grand tour like the Ford Foundation, of the
Carnegie Foundation, of the Gates Foundation. We do the work.
So we do the work in early child and education,
which I'm very proud of. We do the work. We
do the research. We just produced a report on the

(53:16):
state of Black education. I'm going to make sure you
get a hard copy that I'll mail that to you.
And we do the work of outcomes based contract do
to move school districts into more efficient ways of using
the resources so that we get more resources to the
child in the classroom, particularly black children, black and brown
children in the classrooms. There are other things we do

(53:38):
too as well. We still have our Leadership Development Operation
Iconic is over one hundred and fifty years old. Again,
that goes back to W. B. Du Bois and that
kind of work. So yeah, that's that's pretty much it.
There are other things we do as well. We've done
so much because we've had to do so much, but
we've always been able to do that kind of in

(53:59):
the background, which is, you know, because of our origins.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
So speak about I know you were talking off camera
you said that there is a current lawsuit that you
guys had.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Yes, let me put this in perspective. And when black folks,
primarily in the South, some of the North, but eighty
percent of the South, started challenging segregation, challenging the fact
that you know, I'm trying to take my daughter to

(54:34):
see a movie and I got to sit in the
back challenging that I get on the bus to go
to work like everybody else and pay my fare, but
I got to go sit in the back of the
bus challenging the fact that I can't vote. You know
that I pay my taxes, but I'm not allowed to vote,
which is the Edmond Pettis Bridge March was really all
a thought. It was about the voting rights, challenging fact

(54:55):
that you know, you know, black folks are getting lynched
and there's no criminal process of it. When black folks,
and these mostly were church folks, be honest, you know,
when black folks, particularly the black church folks started rising
up in Kentucky and Tennessee and Mississippi and Alabama and
Georgia and Florida, when they started rising up to do this,

(55:18):
they were addressing all these issues public accommodations and you know,
I can't use the restaurant or you know, voting rights.
I can't vote in my own district. Education, I can't
get my child in education, despite what the Supreme Court said,
you know, years earlier in Brown versus Board of Education,
challenging the fact that I can't get alan from the
very same bank that's you know, up the street from me.

(55:41):
When black folks were fighting for all this and all
and after all of Birmingham and our church got bobbed
and those poor little black girls got killed, if you know,
the district, after the marching slmon, after Montgomery Bust War,
after all that, after Jay's Marathon got assassinated, after all that,
the does settle the United States Congress and acted the

(56:05):
Civil Rights Act in nineteen sixty four. You remember the
iconic picture of Lyndon Johnson signing the Civil Rights Act
with who was standing over his right shoulder, Martin Luther
King Junior. And that picture, Okay, google that picture up.
Was one section in that Act that dealt solely with education,
and that's the section that we put it there, the

(56:27):
Southern Education Foundation. But that section, it's called Title four,
Title six, Title seven. All that dealt with employment, discrimination
or access to capital, voting, und all that stuff, But
there was one section that the Southern Education Foundation. And
I didn't even know this until later, until recently. Then
we fought and went to doctor King and people who

(56:48):
were working in Congress to try to get all that done,
to work to get that in there. Well, when that
was put in there, it was put in there to
implement the decision on Brown versus Board of Education to
desegregate public education. That's why I was put in there
years ago. A few years ago, a woman came to me, said, Raymond,
every five years, the Department of Education puts out a grant.

(57:13):
He was that an RFP for an organization to run
the Equity Assistance Center. It's a five year grant, eight
million dollars. And she said, Raymond, giving your history, giving
you your background and the legacy of the Southern Education Foundation,
you all ought to apply for that grant. My first
thing I said to me it was, what's the Equity

(57:34):
Assistant Center? I never heard of it? And Raymond, you
remember them as the Desegregation Assistant Centers. That's important. The
name got changed in twenty sixteen. Our good folks in
the Obama administration thought that desegregation had become something different
than they should be turned into equity, which I totally

(57:54):
disagree with. That applaud the efforts and the accomplishments of
Barack Obama, but changing the name from desegregation to equity
is almost like saying that you know all the issue
space and black folks are so resolved now that we
could change our little bit of reparations into something called equity,
which is not about race. It's about race, gender integration,

(58:18):
and all this kind of stuff, which is which is
what I heard you all talk about when y'alls talked
about back interest getting lost in the sauce. Okay, So
I said, my first thought was I didn't want it.
This government money. I'm not going to apply to that.
But then I did the research and I found it
that Southern Education Foundation did the work to get titled

(58:39):
for the nineteen sixty one Civil Rights Act, implement it.
And secondly, listen to this. Today there are one hundred
and thirty two federal court cases still open desegregation cases,
of which one hundred and thirty of them in the South.
And you know where they are. You know where they are. Okay,
they're in the black Belt. That's stress from Mississippi, Alabama.

(59:01):
You know the forgotten land. All our brothers and sisters
and our cousins, okay, who got left behind, who never
got their schools, you know, desegregated. So you can go
to those towns right now, you look on one side
of the track and white kids got everything on the
other side of the track. Black kids don't have anything
us today in twenty twenty twenty five. Such a shame, okay,

(59:22):
So I said, okay, just apply for the grant. We
applied for the grant. We got it, and we had
a totally restructure because these Desegregation Assistant Centers have been
renamed Equity Assistant Center, and they were doing a little
bit of everything, okay, and no desegregation. And you have
four centers left, one in California, one in Indiana, and
one up in the northeast, and then the one in

(59:44):
the South. We took the one in the South, totally restructured.
I got Sharifael McKay. I don't know if you know,
Scherifel McKay looked that brother who runs the Black Teacher
Development Pipeline out of Philadelphia. Serious brother, Okay. I got
the National Academy of Education, the Mississippi Center for just
the Education Laws, and we got all these people and

(01:00:04):
funded them. That's part of the eight million dollars grant
to put together a program they could go into these
school districts and address these inequities that are holding back
black children today. Thousands of black children today. As soon
as we get this thing going, Trump gets elected, then
he decides that he's got to issue this executive order
saying that DEI is a bad thing and we got

(01:00:26):
to get rid of it. And sure enough, a week later,
the Southern Education Foundation received a letter terminating our grant
because we were doing radical DEI work. I see, to me,
that's the problem with trying to equate civil rights to
di Okay, God bless, DEI is good policy. I believe

(01:00:46):
in diversity, equity, inclusion, I get that, but that's policy.
Civil rights is law. Let me repeat that. You know,
DEI is policy. It ain't got no law. It does
not have the law behind it. Okay, civil rights the
law that is an Act of Congress signed by the President.

Speaker 4 (01:01:03):
I ever says, this is the law that thouts shall
not discriminate on the base of race. That's the law
on the basis of race, on the base of race
black black folks.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
And if you want to get there, you go. And
if you want to get real about it is the
people who are the descendants of those who had been
criminally enslaved, okay and then unlawfully placed in a system
of segregation that we call Jim Crow. That's what the
nineteen sixty four Civil Rights Act was was designed for

(01:01:34):
to address that. Again, God bless and I appreciate diversity
equity inclusion. It is good, but that's stillly what gender equity,
gender identity, immigration status, social emotional learning, all good stuff,
and if I have a child has you know, those issues,
I would look for some funding. It helped me out

(01:01:54):
with that. But why you got why black folks, why
we got to get our money.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
For us?

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
Why you want to stretch that into something else?

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
I think what's important about this issue, and it's what
I have been saying over and over again. I understand
that diversity, equity and inclusion has benefited many other groups,
and you know, we hear the data all the time
that white women are probably the biggest beneficiaries of DEI,
So we get that. But the point that I've been

(01:02:27):
making is one of the reasons why I have joined
the voices of those who are calling out this administration
for trying to make diversity, equity and inclusion a bad
thing right and almost trying to make it illegal by
issuing these executive orders, is that while we may not

(01:02:47):
have benefited from it, on the front end as much
as we should have, which, by the way, diversity equity
and inclusion, in my opinion, is just the you know,
the grand child or the great grandchild of a primative
action and other things that have been put in place
that is supposed to help black, brown and other vulnerable populations. However,

(01:03:09):
while we may not have benefited from it on the
front end as much as we should, when they say
that they are terminating the idea of diversity, equity and inclusion,
they're talking about black people. They are targeting black people.
So that's why I feel that it's something that we
still have to raise, although I completely agree and understand

(01:03:29):
that what you're dealing with and what we all are
really talking about is something that's deeper than a program
or a campaign called DEI. It is actually their attempt
to attack black progress in general, and that's really what
we should be fighting for. And I think you're right
that we have to call it exactly what it is and.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
To make a thank you for that, thank you for that.
And so here's where that rubber touches the road. When
that contract was terminated because we were charged with doing
radical d I, our response was that we're not doing
d I, we're doing some rightsports. And so we had

(01:04:12):
two things to do. Foul an appeal, which we did
with the deprivement of education, and then file a complaint
with the District Court and the District of Columbia, Federal
District Court and the District of Columbia. And when we
were foiling that, preparing to file that, there was another
Equity Assistant Center that had this graduate off the other
only four centers left. The one in California said we're

(01:04:34):
not going to fight it. One in Indiana said we're
not going to fight it. I said, we're going to
fight ours. And the folks who run the other centers
said they want to fight two and good people who
run A and Equity they run the Equity assist Center
in the Northeast. So our good friends and colleagues on
the left wanted me to join those cases, and I

(01:04:55):
resisted that. And I didn't join them. Why because we
don't do d and the other group does DII and
I can't. And strategically, in terms of litigation, I'm not
defending d I. I'm defending the nineteen sixty four Civil
Rights Act, which is solely about race, solely about race,

(01:05:17):
and all you got to do is look at the
court of the decision. When we find the preliminary in junction,
I can quote it. But the judge said, given the
history of race in this nation and the legacy of
a Southern education foundation in advancing education for African Americans,
the audacity of this administration to termine their contract on
the grounds of DI is breathtaking. Okay, he said, the

(01:05:41):
history of race in this nation. That's what the judge
said last month and granting us a preliminary junction or
temporary restraining order, which caused this top administration to reinstate
our grant. I had to separate civil rights from diversity,
equity inclusion.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
I had to be multiple strategies. And I think that
to your point, and I appreciate that you said you
appreciate DI and you understand all the layers of it
and how it can benefit a child who may again
have you know, challenges or developmental issues and or physical
issues and them having accommodations. All of that. Those things

(01:06:22):
are good. But we as black folks, to your point
about what you heard us saying, cannot allow our communities
to get lost in the dialogue and to be grouped
in with every other group because what we know happens
and my song we talk about this all the time,
is that when everybody is fighting for everything, we end

(01:06:42):
up being a part of all those fights and then
still not walking away with what our communities need to
sustain and.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
Say, that's what I when I was driving around somewhere,
somebody told it, suggested I listen to your podcast. That's
what I heard you say, man, which is what interested
me in this podcast. Look, thank lou Hammer. When than
Lou Hammer said that she was sick and tired of
me and sickna tired, Okay, The reason why she was
sick and tired because she was black. Okay. People were

(01:07:11):
not a slave because they're sex. They were slave because
they were black. Okay. We were not denied entrance into
the and to the bank to get along for any
other reason other than we were black. Okay. We were
not deny admittance to the University of Mississippi or the
University of Kentucky at the University of Alabama for any
other reason other than we were black. So when when

(01:07:33):
you in the law, when you're try and think of
legal strategy and trying to analyze issues we are trained
to separate the issues first and define them and then
understand them, and then at the proper time, then you
joined the issues for a strategy, to for some type
of reconciliation or some type of resolution. But we have

(01:07:55):
gotten to the point where you said before, to make
it where we combined the issues before even crystallize our issues, okay,
And so then when you seeking resolution when in terms
of okay, well you know, policies for fair housing or
economic opportunities or access to capital, we get, as you
said earlier, lost in the sauce. Can we get blended out?

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
I agree? But I also would say that I'm sure
that Fanny Leuhaimer was sick and tired because she was black,
and also because she was.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
A woman, because yes, would have said.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
That also because she was a woman, and you know,
because because I think about the role that sexism plays
when you're dealing with you know, you're black already and
then you're a black woman. The types of attacks that
we experience, even from our own are sometimes it's really
kind of unbearable, you know. And I think about the

(01:08:52):
conversations that I had with black men during some black
men black women too, but some black men during this past.
It wasn't so much that they did not like Kamala
Harris just because you know, she was They didn't think
she was strong enough and whatever whatever or whatever lies
they had heard and narratives that needed to be debunked,

(01:09:14):
but there was an actual disdain for the idea that
a woman period thinks that she could become president and
definitely not a black woman. And so that is also
a reality that we deal with.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
I'm sorry, no, no, no, you're one hundred percent correct,
you know, and listening to just listening to both of
you talk right, and just listening about d I and
just understanding the history of racism in this country. It
was their strategy to group it all in, right, That's
what we understood that we understood that when they said DII,

(01:09:48):
they grouped it on because immediately they stopped a fund
that had absolutely nothing to do with They knew exactly
what this was for black people, and you knew this.
So that's what I was always trying to explain to people.
I was like, you're saying that we shouldn't fight against
what's going on with DA And I understand the mentality,
but you have to understand that Their strategy was always

(01:10:10):
to loop it in. So as we understand that and
we separate ourselves from it. We got to understand that
that is their strategy to keep it involved in it,
and we need people. We need people like you who
understand the legal ramifications in language and understand how they're
trying to do that. Because I didn't understand. I knew

(01:10:31):
what I was saying, but listening to you identified and said, no, no,
this is about black people, right, this is about black people,
This is about racism and a miracle. This is what
we all, this is what we've been old. Don't try
to lump it in with everything else that you got.
But that was the strategy to displace us and disenfranchise
us from the beginning.

Speaker 3 (01:10:50):
It called it a strategy. These people know what they
are doing. Just quick refreshing. Civil war ends and the
United States Constitution is amended three times, three times in
a short period of time. Never happened before in the
history the United States. The thirteenth Amendment, the fourteenth Amendment,
and the fifteenth Amendment called the what the Civil War

(01:11:13):
amendments all about? Black people? Okay? Thirteenth Amendment gave us freedom, okay,
in a slave. Fourteenth Amendment gave us rights. Fifteenth Amendment
was supposed to give us the right to vote. Okay,
thirteenth fourteen to fifteen minment. Okay, Then Jim Crow settles
in white folks that say, okay, we can't enslaved these
folks in they are, and the federal troops are being

(01:11:34):
pulled out of the South. Know that history, folks, when
the troops got pulled out of the South, remember what
that happened, and came in, lynchoons, went up on the rise,
all that kind of stuff. But what was the system
that replaced slavery? We can't enslave these people anymore, but
let's put in a system that's the next best thing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Segregated segregation, Jim Crow.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
That lasted for one hundred more years up until I
was a I was born nineteen fifty nine. Okay. And
so what dismantled What was the legal mechanisms to dismantle segregation,
the system that was put in place to replace slavery?
What was it? The Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four,

(01:12:16):
the Voting Rights Act, the Fair Housing Act, the Community
Reinvestment Act, and the Voting Rights Act. Okay, those those
were laws that wasn't an executive order, which is crap.
You know, that's just an executive word.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
That's meding, Okay, an initiative or can and so and so.

Speaker 3 (01:12:36):
If you want to dismand if you want to return
to the system that was put in place after the
Civil War, you got to you got to get rid
of those laws that were enacted. Carolyn and I were
around the Inaac Eagle Defense Fund, you know, before she
left was spending I don't know how much time fighting

(01:12:56):
to say what was left of the Voting Rights Act.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
Yeah, and we just saw her recently just outside on
where we were in a car on the side of
the road, just kind of like talking about her efforts
and all the lawsuits and the you know, and and
and to your point, we have to stop trying to
make everything about this particular moment that we're in. Like,

(01:13:21):
we know, this is terrible. The Trump administration is a
danger to our communities. But in terms of the Voting
Rights Act and other important pieces of like you said, law,
we had other presidents who also did not do what
they needed to do to ratify the laws.

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
That's and so look, you know, you may disagree with
me on this, but I'm gonna say this. Those were
our reparations. Okay, those laws, that's the we fought for that.
Nobody gave us the voting rights sack. Nobody gave us
the Fair Housing Act. You know, black folks fun died

(01:14:06):
for that. You know, you ever heard of the guy
played the guitar, Jimmy Hendrix and that song machine Gun
at the very beginning of that song, and he taught
he was giving a shout out to all the people
fighting in the streets. He was talking about the and
he mentioned and the soldiers in Milwaukee. The Fair Housing
Act came out of the protests in Milwaukee. That was
the only place north of the Mason Dixon Lot, perhaps

(01:14:28):
with this exception of Chicago, which where they got the
Community of Reinvestment Act, which requires banks not to discriminate
against black folks. But you know, that's what people were
marching for. That's what we were getting. We were getting
thrown in jail and come up missing. And you know,
remember Goodness Goodman, Shan Shorna Chase, you know, Cheney Goodman

(01:14:49):
and Shorts in Philadelphia, Mississippi. People forget that stuff. You know,
this was no cake walk. And so when the dust settle,
and we got these laws that have lasted for good
seventy something years. Now, sixty seventy years now you now
see a quick and slow and surgical dismantling of those laws.

(01:15:10):
Then it began with the Voting Rights Act, that's what
Sheriylynn was fighting to preserve. It began with the voting
because you get that vote, you dismantle their ability to
getting vote in large numbers. You know, everything else cast case.
And next is going to be fair housing, okay, and
then it's going to be a Community Reinvestment Act where
banks don't have to lend money to folks. And you know,

(01:15:32):
it's just going to go on and on and on,
and the Department of Education that you start off is
getting dismantled. The Department of Education was created in a
significant part to address the inequities of public education that
the Supreme Court pointed out. All this is just all
this is just revisiting, you know, the end of the
Civil War and black folks got their freedom, and now

(01:15:53):
some folks think black folks got too much. That's to me,
that's what I see.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
I was just about the actual question about you know,
the Department of Education, and you answered that immediately. But
a lot of people feel like the Department of Education
isn't working for black people.

Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
Well, you know, I would argue that that's a lot
of I want to say fake news, but there is
some propaganda in that. Look. I worked at the Departum
of Education, and I could be a critic of it.
I think it was overstaff when I was there. However,
that the problem of education. But for the Department of Education,

(01:16:34):
there's no way in the world the black community would
have the number of scientists that we have. I would
say probably thirty five center of the historically black colleges
would have been shut down a long time ago. I
would say that the high school graduation of black folks
since the creation of the Department of Education would probably

(01:16:56):
be probably thirty percent less than it is, large part
because of headstart, you know, early learning child all that
came out the deprivement of education. I would say, but
for the Department of Education, the number of black folks
who have Black professionals in the stem sciences, particularly mathematics,
would probably be fifty percent less than it is right now.

(01:17:20):
When Charlie rang on Loose Stokes and major on those
guys in the Congressional Black Caucus backs in the sixties
and seventies and eighties, they created all those programs you know,
to get you know, and most of them are historically
black colleges like Jackson, Stayton, places like that, to get
black folks into the into those fields. You know, you
can never understate the importance of that and with that

(01:17:42):
different black people. So that's kind of stuff people don't know,
they don't think about. They just want to say, oh,
you know, black folks still don't you know, aren't graduating
on the numbers they ought to, and we're getting behind
here and there, and blame the Department of Education for it.
You know, a lot of it is not the Department
of Education. Is you know community, you know communities, well,
you know, destabilized communities. You just stabilize homes, you just

(01:18:03):
stabilize education.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
Yeah, I agree, Thank you so much. I mean, you
have so much knowledge. I know you said you don't
really do a lot of interviews, but you should probably
do more. And you know, I think to your point
and my mentor Cora masters Berry always says, we have
to know the history. That when we understand and when
you put everything in historical context, it helps us to

(01:18:30):
know that this moment isn't just like a flute moment,
like we're in a moment where there's an intentional effort
to dismantle and unravel so much of the work that
has been done to get us to the point where
we are to have the access that we have to
as you said, education and other things where we know

(01:18:52):
it's not perfect, but if we go backwards, it would
be non existent. If they add it their way, it
would be non existent that we would be able to
gain to get the capital necessary to fund our businesses
or to buy homes, to have executive positions. They don't
want that. And proof of it is in just looking

(01:19:12):
at something like the Fearless Fund, which is a black
woman owned investment firm that was sued for investing in
their own people. It's crazy like they were sued for
investing money in other black women who God only knows
how many of these investment firms have probably only invested

(01:19:37):
in their own kind. But when we do it, it's
a problem. When we do it, as they say, so
it we thank you, mister Pierce for joining us, Thank
you for your insight. There's so much more to be discussed.
We've already been talking for almost an hour, and we
hope we'll be able to bring you back. As we
see more about education becoming at the forefront, especially when

(01:20:01):
school is back in, you're going to see more people
talking about loss. We just heard from one of our
team members here that her PEL grant, which should have
been given to her, turned into a federal loan instead.
I mean, we're really dealing with some complex challenges and
we hope that to see more of you to talk
about and keep us framed in the right position on

(01:20:23):
what we see in front of our eyes.

Speaker 3 (01:20:26):
Well, listen, you all, you call me anytime, or at
least call you know my folks, and I'll be more
than happy to come on your show and talk to
you about this. Sign enjoyed the conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
Have you all created some social media or website or
something around it so we can help to promote what
you the.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
Study absolutely and actually Charise Johnson who owns Our Sistan
owns our own communications company SMJ and we use them.
She's doing a great job. She's put all that together
for it. The report was called Miles to Go. It's
a series that you know has been put out over
the last fifty years by the Southern Education Foundation. So
when I became president back in twenty eighteen, I said

(01:21:06):
I was going to resurrect that report.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
We did.

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
It just came out last year. It doesn't look it
doesn't paint a good picture right now in terms of
where we are as a people, of the education attainment
levels of our children, which is critical. But I like,
you don't have that, so and we'll make sure that
you get everything else you can to tell that you can.
He promote it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
Okay, well, we appreciate you, mister Pearce.

Speaker 3 (01:21:29):
Okay, anytime. My sign to make is a pleasure. God
bless both you and call anytime.

Speaker 1 (01:21:33):
All right, yeah, thank you. So, I mean he knows
so much that it's like I kind of was thinking
to myself, well, I feel sorry for the editing department
over there, because you know how you get that information
packaged in a way where people can actually hear it.
And you know, I think so many of his points

(01:21:56):
and the things that he was talking about are things
that many of our people just don't know or don't
you understand because I don't know some of it, some
of the history. As he's saying, I'm like, oh, yeah,
I remember that, or I studied it, or I read it,
or I used to hear about it, you know, especially
in my days working the National Action Network, and I
understand some of the historic reference. But nonetheless, a lot

(01:22:17):
of our people are so frustrated because they're just like
they don't know, like they don't know. So when you
present this information, then they can begin to your point
because you said something really powerful. They're saying, they know
this is a crazy time, and they know it's a
dangerous time. But the way that he puts it into perspective,

(01:22:39):
you can begin to actually call out why this administration
is so dangerous, why they're focused so much on DEI,
Because what they're really trying to do is to slip
under it anything that has to do with being black,
black programs, black youth, black kids, black women, black blacky
That's what they want to do.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
Not only do they slip it in, what they do
is they slipped so many different things in to keep
us divided, right because they make you think, oh, they
talking about that, or they talking about that, they ain'talking,
they ain't gonna do it. And by the time you
realize it all got something to do with you, they
don't already dismantle it. You understand I'm saying. So when
they said, oh, d I did in for us, and
the man just told you they had an eight million

(01:23:20):
dollar grant that was for black people that they hold
the everything that they do is about black people, and
they took it away saying that it was part of
DA So what I'm trying to tell you, go to court.
Everybody else just sayd we ain't even gonna fight filets,
right because you know what happened. They fell into the
d I thing and not realizing it had nothing to
do with all of those things. It was disenfranchising black people.

(01:23:44):
And that's what it's always been about. Everybody else that
you talking about. When they say it benefits white women,
white women gonna still get jobs, their husbands, gonna make
sure they hire them before they hired black people. Everybody
that you talking about that you think benefit, they still
gonna benefit from it. And when they get rid of
DI and all that, all those people are still gonna
be Okay, we the only do.

Speaker 1 (01:24:05):
That white women. Will white women know that, you know,
there are a large group of white women who will
also know that this particular moment is very, very critical
for them because they are in a situation. And it's
interesting because I heard this from you know, advertising executives

(01:24:28):
years ago, maybe almost twenty years ago. I was in
a room with major advertising executives and I a black people,
and I heard one of them say, what is currently
happening in this country? Maybe it's fifteen years ago, Yeah,

(01:24:49):
let's say fifteen. It's all about white men wanting to
hold on to their position and their power. And what
they are upset about is that the forecast of the
changing demographics will make them in the minority and not

(01:25:09):
the majority. So what they need, this is still a
part of what was stated in that room. What they
need is for white women to have more babies. Right.
That's why you see sometimes a white woman will have
a bit two babies in a stroller, one walking and
one in a stomach. Right, And when you go into

(01:25:31):
churches where white people frequent, you hear it from the pulpit, right,
more children multiplied because they are trying to stay in
the majority. And what happened is that white women started working,
started you know, finding themselves, and shoot, they on TikTok

(01:25:53):
asking black women what you think about this? Black women,
I'm trying to I just watched the TikTok video the
other day where white women was like, why do black
women wash the pot out first before boiling the water? We,
as white women, just put the water in the pot
straight from the forest and we just start boiling. And
she said, is it because the pot is dirty? Is

(01:26:15):
it because the water is dirty? And then the black
women comes in and says, both because the pot has
been under the cover, it's been under the sink, and
that means it's got dust and whatever else in it.
And the first water that comes out the forest, we
don't drink that. We pour that out if we start
with the next one. Right, So these white women are

(01:26:36):
on they connected, they're trying to understand, get the vibe,
listen to our empowerment stuff. And they said, oh, hell no.
And then y'all want to have a women's march where
a bunch of different types of women come together, and
y'all think y'all gonna challenge us on racism and fascism
and sexism. We're putting a stop to all of this
shit quickly. And I think that there are white women

(01:26:58):
who are very clear that they're husbands are trying to
command them back into the house, back to being pregnant
and barefoot. They don't want them working and getting all
of these big careers and not wanting to have more
children because they're in their you know, following their dreams,
and that's what they're doing. So it beholds us. It

(01:27:19):
beholds us to understand that our issues are interconnected immigrants.
You know why we're interconnected with them, because when they
say they want to get rid of the immigrants, and
Trump tells you they taking your black job. What he says,
take your ass, your black ass into the field, take
your black ass into the hotels and the whatever, and

(01:27:40):
work for us. And we're gonna take these people who
don't mind doing those jobs because they're coming to America
looking for a better life. And some of them are
okay with the fact that, like, we're gonna do the hustle,
the hard work that other people may not want to do,
so that we have a chance to benefit from the
American dream. Right, So they willing to do that. So
now what they're telling you is they want to shift

(01:28:02):
this shit back around so that the black people go
back to the jobs that they think we're worthy of
and they can get their white women in the house,
and then white men can sit up and say we've
made America.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
Grading sounds like the point.

Speaker 1 (01:28:18):
Well, it was a nine hundred page document. It's called
Project twenty twenty five. If you haven't heard of a
nine hundred page document that explains everything that these folks
are working on and what maga's agenda truly is, you
should just go read something called Project Twins were five.
I know you've never heard of it before. It's Project twins.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
Sounds well right, So now for my I don't get it.
A few days ago, we were at the NAACP.

Speaker 1 (01:28:46):
Conference and it was a great convention.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
It was a great convention. Great convention. Shout out to
everybody that was there. Shout out to Fred Hampton Junior,
Shout out to Consciously, shout out to the nave A,
shout out to Garrison like these the young influences were
chilling with them. They're amazing, amazing. But anyway, we're in
a restaurant and there was this picture that I'm going
to show you as we talk about this of the

(01:29:10):
Jackson five. And you know, I'm just sitting there and
we're talking, we're eating, and I look at this.

Speaker 1 (01:29:16):
Picture on the wall kitchen and cocktail.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
Kitchen, and food is good there too. The Beyonce is dope.
But this picture of the Jackson five, Now if you
look at this picture, you you will notice that these
are all young boys. They got the afros. They look
so black. So these are nice looking young men. They
look sharp. They like when you look at them, you

(01:29:41):
can see like black family. These was These was black boys.

Speaker 1 (01:29:46):
And they all had they all had the same nose.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
And you know, and I have a big nose, so
I'm I'm very aware of that kind of nose that
you have in the world. And I'm watching these these
people's nose and I'm really none of them have that nose.
Michael didn't die with it when and pretty much most
of their family changed in those and it was like, really,
it was like disheartening to me. And it was no

(01:30:11):
digger in any of them. They made their own preference,
their choices about how they wanted to look. But I
wanted this. I wanted to understand you. I didn't understand
that some of family that talented, that skilled, who pretty
much was like the top people in music at that time,

(01:30:32):
felt the need to change their appearance right to fit
into white America. And I don't know what the mind
state was. I don't want to judge, but because I've
heard that before, you and you see it constantly happen.
That you have our black artists and who have come
into prominence, who have been celebrated with their regular features,

(01:30:56):
and they change them to fit into this white and
I want to know. I don't know why. I don't
know why. Who made us feel uncomfortable with our natural features?
Who made us feel like our features weren't enough that
we have to change our features. And it's it's a
sad minds that you don't see, you know, other people
doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
It's like, I don't know if I agree with that.
White women and white people men as well, they do stuff.
They fix this, they fix that. That's where half the
ship comes from. I see a lot of Asians do it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:28):
I see a lot of white women doing this lip thing.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
Of they do it. But the Asian community, I don't
think they really play with their face.

Speaker 2 (01:31:38):
I just don't. But I just feel like blacks are
doing it way more than everybody else. You know, I
think blacks are blacks are trying to some good research
to look but I really do like when I'm looking,
when I'm thinking about a lot of the artists that
I've watched come into prominence, right, you start to see
their fatire, their facial features get more thin. I don't

(01:32:01):
know if they're getting operated. I don't know what it is,
but they thinning their noses out, their eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
Are except they want the lips big. Yeah, but not
black people know the black women.

Speaker 2 (01:32:11):
Oh no, I haven't seen.

Speaker 1 (01:32:12):
Oh my, yes, that's a big thing. Yes, cheek bones
moving them around. Listen. I am not a person that's
against people doing what they want to do, their little
plastic surgery stuff. I'm not against it. Because somebody don't
do something about these rolls on my back, I'm gonna
be going to see me somebody. I'm trying to pull

(01:32:34):
up things. But I don't know. But I would say
that the facial changes, that's a little hard on the eyes.
It's a little and by the way, it almost never
looks good.

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
It just doesn't never, it doesn't. It doesn't do justice.
And it's just that I don't I really just don't
get why we do that. I just really because we're
looking at them. I was like, this is a classic
black family. These people look like black people, and they
track there. Now you realize that all the Jackson's pretty
much did the same thing, and it's just it's just disheartening, man.

(01:33:07):
And you know, I just want us to be comfortable
with us. I'm not against anybody making decisions about changing,
but I just want us to Why can't we love
the way we look?

Speaker 1 (01:33:17):
Because because you know why, because the stylists and the
publicists and the industry people and all of that are
trying are showing you images of what it looks like
to be hot to be.

Speaker 2 (01:33:34):
But I'm just saying that I don't know, I don't
I just haven't seen it actually work for any of them.

Speaker 3 (01:33:40):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
Well, you know there's some people who have had light
nicks and tucks and they actually look good because even
though yeah, yeah they look good, all plastic surgery is
not bad. But you also, I'm also thinking about now,
when it has advanced so much that these doctors are
able to do whatever tumtum tune. Back then, it was new,

(01:34:02):
it was very new, and so you have a lot
of doctors who were just kind of learning as they
go along, and all of them probably felt they needed
to change their nose because again, when they're showing you
images in that world of what it is to be
like the hottest artists or whatever. They're showing you images
of white women, of white men, of people who don't

(01:34:23):
look like us. That's just what it is. And so
you know it's going on right now. Where the Kardashians
was thick, it was all about being thickness, the big
booty and the big bodies, and you know, they was
all on their thick thing. Then all of a sudden,
Kim lost a bunch of weight. They all probably probably
started with ozefic and whatever else. And the next thing,

(01:34:46):
you know, you see all these black girls, some of
them that we know are so skinny that they look sick.
They do not look good. And they was and they
were all into the thick thing. And now the new
thing is everybody got to be super super dupers and
you can actually see their bones sticking out of their bodies.
So you know, I'm probably they gonna say I'm a

(01:35:07):
hater because my ass is fat, but I can tell
you what, they don't look healthy. There's that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:13):
I just want us to love us, man. You know,
we love you for who you are, So stay who
you are and with that being said, we come to
the end of another episode. We appreciate you all for
supporting us. Make sure you continue to support us. We're
gonna continue to love you. We're gonna continue to be
the number one show in the world. Make sure you
follow us at tam Underscore Show on Instagram and Tami

(01:35:35):
Show PC on YouTube. I'm not gonna always be right,
Tamika d marries and I can always be wrong, but
we will both always and I mean always, be authentic.

Speaker 1 (01:35:44):
Peace,

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The Price of Equality: Fighting for Our Children’s Future Guest - Raymond Pierce

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Price of Equality: Fighting for Our Children’s Future Guest - Raymond Pierce