April 28, 2025 • 34 mins
In this special bonus episode, we sit down with Dr. Brent Musson—a public policy specialist, real estate development professional, and three-time Altadena Town Council member—for an in-depth conversation about Altadena’s rich history, the legacy of Black homeownership, and the challenges that residents face after the Eaton Fire.
He explains how decades-old policies continue to impact rebuilding efforts today, and why protecting Altadena’s legacy is more urgent than ever.Through his personal stories and professional expertise, Dr. Musson offers a blueprint for resilience, rebuilding, and what it truly means to fight for the soul of a community.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, this is Mimi Brown and this is to
Alta Dina with love. In this bonus episode, I'm sitting
down with doctor Brent Munson, a three time Alta Dina
Council member, local historian, and proud Alta Dina native. His
roots in this community run deep, and so does his
commitment to preserving its legacy. We talk about the early
(00:22):
origins of Altadena, the impact of redlining, and the barriers
that still stand in the way of rebuilding. But we
also talk about hope and what's possible when a community
fights to protect its history and invest in its future.
This is a conversation about truth, resilience, and what it
means to love the place that raised you. This is
(00:43):
to Altta Dina with love. So doctor Munson, let's take
it back to the beginning. Talk to me about your
upbringing in alt Toa Diena and what made it so
special to you.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Sure, as a kid, I didn't know anything different. It
was just kind of where I grew up and went
to church there, raised a family there. I wasn't really
until I sort of broadened my horizons before I realized
that Altadena had a reputation. You know, it was kind
of the bougie the bougie place, right, And you know,
(01:14):
it's not how I remember it, but that's how that's
the reputation I had. But over the years, I've also
been involved in all sorts of service in Altadena, and
from the service perspective, you get to see a broad
sort of a broad portrait of what the what the
place really is. I'm sure you've heard that eighty one
percent of the black residents there own their homes. That's
(01:37):
about twice what it is in places like Atlanta.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Twice what it is in Atlanta. I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, I think the reason I brought that stat up
in a question about what it was like for me
being there is that it's all sort of intertwined. What
was normal to me was a middle class and upper
class Black community, and that was that's really sort of
(02:05):
typified by some of those stats, those census tract stats
that you know that kind of describe who we who
we were. Most of my friends graduated from college, A
large proportion of them also went on to do master's
degrees or terminal degrees, and that that was normal.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So that was I love that that was normal for
the area. So let's go back, let's talk about the
early origins of Altadena and paint a full picture. What
should people understand about how this community first came to.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Be sure, So John Woodbury founded Altadena. At that time,
it was mostly this open land. He bought an awful
lot of land, founded the town. It wasn't until much
later that we started to see a real black population,
(02:58):
mostly in the mid century when houses became available after
Fair Housing Act and so forth. So you know, that's
sort of the real growth of African Americans. But the
draw for African Americans specifically to Altadena goes back to
Harper's Ferry. So John Brown led a raid of Harper's Ferry.
(03:21):
The idea was to take it was the armory. There
was to take the the the weapons from the armory
and give them the slaves and to allow them to
fight their way out of slavery. Didn't go so well
for the raiders for the most part, they were most
of them were killed. John Brown himself actually escaped but
(03:43):
was then executed, was hanged. His two sons moved to Altadena,
and so Owen Brown was his older son, who was
also a very well known abolitionist, sort of retired to Altadena.
But that set the tone of Altadena as a place
that was sort of friendly to or at least had
(04:04):
an understanding of the plight of African Americans. It didn't
necessarily change everything in Altadena, but at least it created
a beacon effect in Altadena.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
So what time period was this, that's eighteen hundred.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
As matter of fact, the raid on Harper's Ferry is
arguably the most important historical event that sort of sparked
the Civil War. It was almost it created a lot
of sort of paramilitary conflict between Union, the Union and
the Confederacy, and it was sort of almost like a
(04:38):
setup for the Civil War.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So why do you think so few people know this story?
Why isn't Altadena more widely recognized for this rich history.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So history is written by the victors, and so we
have to understand what the fight is really for. And
so if we understand that the fight is for power, influence,
control of resources, control of labor, et cetera, then we
understand why that history isn't part of the narrative.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's so true.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yeah, Altadena is sort of sandwiched between Pasady and the Foothills,
So most people sort of think of it as a
as an extension of Pasadena, and it's kind of the
way that it was was founded. But the folks that
have been through there and that have lived there, I'll
read off of this Octavia Butler, Sidney Poitier, Jackie Robinson,
(05:34):
the baseball player Elgis Cleaver, had a McDaniel, Jane Kennedy.
There's a much longer list than that, but those are
just some names that that will immediately ring a bell.
Those people all lived in Altadena and not you know,
just moved in there for a year, you know, they
they lived there and so that was the you know,
it was a core of black culture and black excellence.
(05:57):
If you can imagine these people had addresses there, you
can imagine who came in and out of Altadena. So
Altadena was was not an unknown place. But the history
of Altadena is quickly forgotten in today's zeitgeist. That shouldn't
be confused with it being forgotten by Altadenas who lived
(06:19):
there and people who are associated. So people who live
in Altadena understand how special it is. People who grew
up there understand how special it is. And also the
County of Los Angeles understands how special it is. I
think that when I was on council and I was
advocating for Altadena, it's probably the easiest, easiest job ever,
was just to bring up a need in Altadena, and
it was it was, you know, it was a dressed
(06:41):
in one way or another.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You know. So in episode two we touched on redlining.
But now that I have you here, I want to
go a little deeper. Can you break down how redlining
shaped the Altadena we know today?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So redlining was made, was found to be unconstitutional nationwide,
didn't mean that it stopped. It just meant that the
law was on the side of African American families that
wanted to buy. But it still took an advocate realtor
to actually sell you property. African Americans weren't allowed to
(07:18):
have licenses, so there were no African American realtors selling
property in Altadena West or East. But a realtor named
Ernie Roberts was sort of was a champion of equity
in home ownership, and so she would set up ways
for African Americans to buy homes. I don't know if
(07:40):
it was sus straw buyers. I would assume that that's
probably part of it. The history is sort of sketchy
on exactly how she pulled it off, but she was
instrumental in getting you know, black ownership of homes now,
the idea of East altadina versus West Altadena. Anyone who
grew up there like me, knows that West Altadena is
the black side of town and East Altadena is. It's
(08:00):
not that hasn't always been the case. So some of
the early early development was in West Altadena, and that's
where white families were allowed to settle. In East Altadena,
black families were there, but in a sort of a
less developed area at a certain point in history. And
(08:22):
it's hard to figure out exactly how this happened, but
we can kind of guess white started to move east
and take the larger, undeveloped areas and make larger, more
palatial estates and larger lots, leaving the West Altadena area
for the African American population.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
So switching gears just a little bit. We know historically
black families face more hurdles when it comes to rebuilding
after disasters. What do you think lies ahead for Altadena?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Sure, so if we just try to build back the
way that we have, we can we can create. What
we narrative talks about is generational wealth. So the idea
of eighty one percent of African Americans owning their homes
in West Altadena, it's that that's a narrative of generational
wealth that doesn't exist in other places. But really, when
(09:14):
we talk about black generational wealth, what we're really talking
about is Black generational not struggling. Right, So I have
a very low standard for what wealth is. I say,
if you can, if you can sustain your way of
life without having to work, then you're wealthy. That's a
very low standard. But most people who own their own
homes in Altadena aren't in that category, so they're not
(09:35):
really wealthy. Now there's an opportunity for wealth if the
African American or anyone in that area who is now
redeveloping can realize the types of increased value that a
developer would if they get their hands on your lot.
The highest and best use of a lot is the
maximizing of it as a financial asset, and so that
(10:00):
is I think central to this redevelopment effort is educating
and providing the resources to allow people who own property
to elevate their property to highest and best use as
opposed to just building back what was there and then
trying to beat off developers who are hungry to take
that property and develop at the highest and best use.
(10:21):
Understanding the difference between restoration and reimagination is the key.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So yeah, that's the key. So okay, let's talk solutions. Now,
what in your view is the best way to build
generational wealth in a community like Altadena.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
If generational wealth is your primary goal, then the idea
here is how do I maximize the value of this
real estate. So, in other words, if you have a
single family home and you instead of just building back
a single family home, you build back for single family homes,
then you have more value. So just to give you
(11:00):
give you a quick example. You have a single family
home on a lot, single family lot. You use SB
nine to split that lot into two. Now you have
two lots that can each hold a home and an ADU.
And when people think of ADUs they think of a
converted garage. But it doesn't have to be that way.
You can have a twelve hundred square foot ADU. It
can be attached to your home or detached. So now
(11:23):
you have four units at twelve hundred square feet or
so and through David Sterling, or should the Altadena be
able to through the county adopt SB ten or AB
ten thirty three ways to split those ADUs off and
give them their own APN numbers. If you have four
(11:46):
separate piece of property with its own APN you can
borrow against them helock style and use that money to
invest in real estate other places without selling them, so
you still hold on to all your property. You have
more utility because more people can and live there, and
you also have access to cash. They a million and
a half dollars to invest in real estate elsewhere. You
could buy ten condos in Baltimore.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
For that, You definitely could. So let's let's let's talk
about that because there's been a lot of talk about
developers who are eyeing Alta Dina and with all this
history and the legacy on the line, how do you
make sure that Altadena is protected?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
So I think that choice has to be given. Some
people want to reserve, want to recover the rich history
of single family home with the barbecue in the back.
That's how they grew up and that's what they want
to restore. And that's valid. But there's another part of
the history, which is the economic power that comes with
land ownership. And each person has to make up their
(12:46):
mind for themselves. What's what's the you know what their
goal is. But if you're looking for a way to
maximize your your family's generational financial security or move it
towards wealth, then you have to maximize the value of
your real estate through development. Most people can't become a
developer if there's a lot of you know, learning that
(13:09):
has to happen, and you have to have a good team.
So part of this process has to be providing resources
to support people who decide that they want to go
to development route rather than selling to a developer.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
So what would you say are some of the biggest
challenges Altadena faces when it comes to rebuilding.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I think that we perish for lack of knowledge, and
that's not a dig on Altadena. That's a dig on
the resources for having not presented themselves. So part of
the job of government is to make available to the
people its constituents all the tools they need to live
(13:52):
a better life. In the case of Altadena, the average
value of a single family home is one point three
million dollars. Most people who live there couldn't afford to
buy their own home in the current in the current market.
But at the same time that one point three million
dollars in real estate could be five million dollars in
(14:12):
real estate with the proper guidance. And so part of
the challenge here is that people don't know what's possible.
Most people have never heard of any of the state
bills or Assembly bills. They don't understand the density perspectives
of the state and the county and the initiatives that
are that are associated with them. And so in order
(14:33):
to support the population there, we have to support them
with knowledge, and we have to support them with administrative support.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
You know, oftentimes when people hear black community, they also,
for some reason hear the word poor. But Altadena was
not that. This is California's first middle class black community.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yes, sure, we think it was and still and still is.
When we think of black excellence in southern California and
La County, we tend to think of Ladera and you know,
some areas around, but Altadena sort of is off the list.
But I think it's kind of un intentional in a way.
It's sort of like this low key kind of place
(15:17):
to escape to it's not pretentious. A lot of the
homes are a turn of the century and have a
lot of characters, a lot of craftsmen homes and old
Spanish style homes and so forth. But it's less about
the built environment and about the built community. The community
in Altadena, the ownership of eighty one percent, a lot
of it is really because people didn't leave. They liked
(15:39):
to be there, and so they stayed generation after generation,
and so it gives you time. Even though African American
accumulated wealth is twelve cents on the dollar to the
majority population, people were able to pay off their real
estate because they stayed generation after generation and they didn't
borrow against their homes in many cases, so a lot
of the homes there were owned free and clear, which
(16:01):
actually brings up another issue. If you don't have a
mortgage company, no one's compelling you to have homeowners insurance.
So a lot of the vulnerability to the fire is
also due to the thing that makes altered in so great.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
You know, I wanted to talk to you about this
because we talked about this a little bit before we
started this interview. What are some of the barriers to
rebuilding when race comes into play.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
So if you think about at the same time that
homes are burning in Palisades, they're also burning in Altadena.
The area around Palisades, in a Malibu, for instance, seems
like it has fires, wildfires almost every year followed by
mud slides. We've had we had fire up in Paradise.
(16:49):
We've had fires running rampant, mostly in in non urban
areas that are mostly majority population and not African American.
Because of those fires in those high risk areas or
higher risk areas, I should say, insurance companies have been
pulling out in raising rates and making it more difficult
for people to have insurance in areas like Altadena or
(17:12):
Ladera or Frankly anywhere else. But if you're dealing with
the population that has accumulated wealth of twelve cents in
the dollar and then you ask them to pay elevated
insurance premiums because of what has happened in more affluent areas,
there's an issue you know of equity there in you
know in how that that plays out. But if it's
(17:34):
not just about the insurance rates, it's also about the
withdrawing of insurance coverage state farm leaving. You know, the
state and so forth. So you know, all of these
things sort of come together in this disastrous moment where
people have, you know, these one point three million dollar
homes that they couldn't replace any other any other plays
(17:56):
that isn't carrying insurance, and we have a ninety eight
mile an hour or firestorm coming through. I mean, I
just and none of it started was I mean, obviously
you should hold insurance on your home no matter what,
if you can, but if you can part is the
difficult part. Not everyone can.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
What about people who didn't have insurance? Are there any
realistic avenues for them to take when it comes to rebuilding?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, so there are people have a choice of a
number of things, and it's important to realize that everyone's
not in the space where they want to rebuild for
one reason or another. So when the fire came, people
had their homes for sale for whatever reason. There were
other people who were already in escrow. There were people
(18:44):
going through a divorce, there were people who were in foreclosure.
I mean, all of the things that happen in life
were all happening when the fire hit. And so part
of this is figuring out how to create a path
forward for all of those scenarios. But for those who
want to rebuild and weren't covered by insurance, they do
have some options, so FEMA provides money. Many of them
(19:07):
had gofund me accounts and so forth. But then there's
also construction lending. So if you own the vacant lot
and you want to add value to it, a vacant
lot now today, I think the first one sold for
about four hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So if you
can imagine you have a home that's worth average value
one point three million, and you have a four hundred
(19:28):
thousand dollars a lot paid for, then you can get
a construction loan to build an improvement on that land.
You now have a mortgage where you didn't before, but
you can rebuild. And in that case especially, I would
recommend taking that construction loan to max out the property
with value so that you can sell off part of
(19:48):
it and live there for free if you'd like, or
just use the equity as liquid cash to invest. But
you know, in that case, that's that's a perfect sort
of case study for why it's important to have the
option to develop.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
You know what I want to ask you, I think
you're the perfect person to ask for people listening outside
the area who are not familiar with Altadena, what do
they need to understand the most about this community, especially
in this moment.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, I think that altadenas an incredible case study, not
just for its community, but for California more broadly. A
lot of the legislation that we have now allows for
increased density, but there's still a lot of local pushback.
Using Altadena as a case study, I developed there in
(20:45):
Altadena and found, you know, sort of some of the
setbacks oppressive, especially in West Altadena. So the code says
that you're supposed to zoning says that you're supposed to
maintain the front setback that's the average of the front
yards on that block. Well, some developer who decided they
wanted to sell set those setbacks, you know, in nineteen
(21:07):
forty or forty eight or fifty. For some reason, now
we feel it's important to maintain what that developer did
as a sales tactic, which is essentially a taking of
someone's front yard that could be used for whatever they
want to use it for. And so, you know, some
of this as a case study Annalcadena could be applied
more broadly that right now people were struggling for housing density.
(21:31):
We're struggling to you know, to create enough units and
to use what we have. Adding eight us and all
these types of things, you know, sort of ease the pain.
But we're skipping past some of the most obvious opportunity.
Why do we need this big open space in the front.
Why why can't we have an attached garage that has
the same setback as a detached garage. A lot of
(21:54):
these codes just are oppressive. And if we can sort
of remove the fetters and let people develop out their
land to its highest and best use in utilitarian fashion,
then it becomes a higher, highest and best use as
a as a financial asset class.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
And I want to just get a little personal You
grew up in Altadena and now the neighborhood that you
called home is gone. Talk to me about what that
is like on a personal level.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I didn't think it would affect me the way that
it did. My wife and I both grew up in
the area, and so our friends from school, our neighbors,
our church family. Everyone was there, and most of who
we know who were still there lost their homes. I
(22:50):
think thirty some odd families from our church, you know,
people went to high school with and like that. I
started traveling back to up to Altadena, now down in
the in the Peninsula, but I travel up. I started
traveling up to Altadena as soon as as soon as
the fires were as soon as it happened, and meetings started,
(23:10):
public meetings started, and so at first, of course we
couldn't get into Altadena. And so we've come to Pasadena
and the meetings were close to the border, and you
could smell the smoke and ash. It wasn't until maybe
I don't know, two weeks almost later, before we were
able to really drive through. And I'd already seen the
(23:31):
aerial photos from CNN, and so I thought I was prepared,
but nothing prepares you for actually being present in that place.
In that way, it looks like someone went to war
against against the neighborhood. And I couldn't help but sort
(23:52):
of understand the parallels between what happened there and what
happened in other places like Greenwood and Mount Bayou and Rosewood.
I mean, so many places that were deliberately burned to
the ground. And I can only imagine what it would
be like to watch someone light your home on fire,
in your neighbor's house on fire. Clearly, this wasn't a
deliberate act of terrorism, but it was negligence, and some
(24:15):
could argue it was it was deliberate negligence. You know.
Edison received phone calls.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
That the.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Sparks were flying, and then the winds were high and
the power was still on until the ninety eight mile
an hour winds were blowing the fire through Altadena. If
you see the aerial photos during the fire, it seems
like the entire city is on fire. At the same time,
there's no fire line to fight for the fire fire,
(24:47):
just to fight, and knowing that the wind is moving
at ninety eight miles an hour, you can imagine what
that was like on the ground for people who were
stuck there and were trying to get out. So it
moved me deeply, I think, you know, my first few
times through there, you know, I was choked up, and
you know, I'm not gonna admit on camera that I
was crying, but it was harsh.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
There's no shame in that. This is emotional, it's personal.
That just shows how deeply you care. So thanks for
being real with us. Right, So in episode three, we
talked about how the warnings came too late for many.
You know, how the West side didn't receive an alert
until eight hours after the east and some people can't
(25:33):
help but wonder was that a mistake or was that
something more intentional.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I think one of the hardest parts of being black
in America in current time. I shouldn't say one of
the hardest, maybe one of the most present elements, is
always questioning you don't know what was incidental or what
was intentional. So you know, when you get pulled over,
(25:59):
I get pulled over because I'm black. When I don't
get alerted, my house burns down. Did that happen because
I'm black? And I'm sure that anyone is not black
who is always thinking? Well, why are you always? But
it's because history always bears out over and over and
over again, how some of you know so many things
were intentional. Now I don't have any evidence that this
was intentional, and I want to believe that it's not.
(26:21):
But it doesn't mean that the systemic issues don't still
result in the same thing. For people to be not alerted,
for the power not to be cut. All of these
things are you know, they point to systemic issues that
put lives in danger and certainly people's homes in danger.
I do want to bring up really important aspect of Altadena.
(26:44):
Though Altadena is often referred to as an African American
story because of the impressive African American population, but the
population of Altadena that is African American is less than
twenty percent. It's not that that Altadena is mostly African American.
(27:07):
It's that the African American population that's there is outstanding.
And so it's part of the complexity of this is
that as we talk about it as an African American community,
the resources are being withheld because of systemic racism that
doesn't want to give money to, you know, to an
(27:29):
African American community. But the white families and the Latino families,
and there's actually a significant Japanese population in Altadena as well,
they are all suffering along with the African American community.
I want to clarify I said resources are being withheld.
I'm not talking about necessarily money. But I will say
(27:49):
that when we had a visit from the President of
the United States to come and see the affected areas,
the President landed and walked and toward one area, but
not the other. And I don't find it to be
coincidence that African American stories were the narrative around Altadena
and we didn't see a visit from the President of
(28:10):
the United States. So the resources, attention and whatever else.
I don't have any actual metrics to but I can,
but I can see exactly what's happening as it's happening
in real time.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So when we talk about the rebuilding process itself, from
your knowledge, what does that timeline actually look like.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, so this type of disaster isn't brand new, unfortunately,
and every time we go through one of these we
in Hawaii in Paradise, the emergency response teams learn and improve,
(28:53):
and so the hope is that they'll be faster than
they were in Hawaii, which was actually fast in a
lot of ways than it was up in Paradise. But
there are a lot of moving parts. So with the
new administration, there's been you know, shakeups in leadership, and
so it's hard to know exactly you know, how things
(29:15):
will play out. But I think that one thing that
we can be sure of is that in an area
with one point three million dollar homes decimated, resources are available,
whether they're private, private, funds or public funds or insurance claims,
(29:36):
resources are available to rebuild. The key is actually in
how people are educated to be able to do that,
whether they're displaced, and so the question was really about timeline,
and so the timeline changes depending on who's doing the developing.
It's going to be slower for people to develop themselves.
On that. I'd give it, you know, five between the
(29:58):
five and ten year mar for a lot of people
to actually develop their own property and be finished with it.
If a developer comes in and scoops up your land,
it can have an expertit to permit and have it
done within eighteen months.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
So I read somewhere that fifty seven percent of black
homeowners in Altadena are over the age of sixty five,
So how does that timeline work for them?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
If you are an older person and your primary interest
is in legacy, then you may be developing, but you're
probably not developing for yourself.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
It's a good point. You're passing it down to your family,
You're passing it down.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Maybe your primary interest is nostalgia because that's the place
where you raise your family and you want to preserve
that almost you know, shrine to your family. That's a
legitimate cause, you know. So people have to determine what's
most important to them in the end, and regardless of
(31:01):
our emotional attachment, real estate is an asset class. As
a developer myself, I think of it like a bond.
You have a purchase price outgoing cash flow, and then
it has accumulated value moving forward. And it came a
case of a home. It appreciates naturally with inflation, but
also as incoming cash flows. So you might think if
(31:23):
you live in it, it doesn't have incoming cash flows,
but it does. It actually has your rent that you
would be paying as the incoming cash flow because you're
actually actually consuming the service of shelter from that asset. Now,
I set all that technical stuff specifically for this reason.
If you understand real estate as an asset class, and
you're in this moment, you have this unique opportunity to
(31:46):
increase the value of your asset. That's the non emotional
way to look at it. It's not devoid of emotion
because these are people's homes. But if you can put
those two things together and say, look, I'm going to
build a new home for myself, I'm also going to
increase the value as an asset and to learn how
to do that, then I think that's for me, that
(32:06):
would be the winning, winning way to go.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah, doctor Munson, again, thank you so much for having
this conversation with me. Before we go, I'd love to
hear your vision. What does the future of out ta
Dina look like? Through your eyes?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Altadena Strong isn't just a slogan, it's it's actually sort
of a throughput for through line, I should say, from
from grandma's to you know, to moms and dads to
you know, to their children. Most of the people that
I know from Altadena that I went to high school
with that are still there. They fit into that narrative
and they're not going anywhere. They're going to rebuild. The
(32:41):
way I see it going forward in the most positive
way is that people max out the value of their
property and they become millionaires on this tragedy. But they
use this opportunity to build a home, not the same
home that they were in, but build a home that
has more usability, that has is you know, more energy
(33:02):
efficient uh materials, more sustainable with solar panels and ev
charging multiple units, their income properties. All of this can
happen rather than putting back what was there. That's what
I see as the as the you know, sort of
the brass ring. Hopefully you know that'll it'll happen that way.
I don't have as much say so I'm I don't
(33:22):
live in Altaden anymore, but you know, but I'm there
for my people, and you know, I really I am
available to to try to help people to to move
on and move on, you know, a way that you
know provides that genuine generational wealth.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
And last question for people who want to connect with
you or learn more, where can they find you?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, Muscinfactory dot com is the website and if you
get there, you'll find a bunch of stuff. Our our
primary customer pool is is government, So skip past all
that stuff if you like, and go directly to the
contact page and then you know, someone on my staff
will will find that message and get it to me.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Well, doctors, and we appreciate you for sharing your heart,
your wisdom, and your deep connection to Alta Dina. This
bonus episode is exactly what to outta Dina with love
is all about honoring the past, making sense of the present,
and holding space for what's next. Make sure you download
and follow the podcast wherever you listen and head to
(34:20):
to outta Dina with Love dot com to hear more
about the series. I Mimi Brown, Thanks for tuning in.
This is to out to Dina with Love.
Hey everyone, this is Mimi Brown and this is to
Alta Dina with love. In this bonus episode, I'm sitting
down with doctor Brent Munson, a three time Alta Dina
Council member, local historian, and proud Alta Dina native. His
roots in this community run deep, and so does his
commitment to preserving its legacy. We talk about the early
(00:22):
origins of Altadena, the impact of redlining, and the barriers
that still stand in the way of rebuilding. But we
also talk about hope and what's possible when a community
fights to protect its history and invest in its future.
This is a conversation about truth, resilience, and what it
means to love the place that raised you. This is
(00:43):
to Altta Dina with love. So doctor Munson, let's take
it back to the beginning. Talk to me about your
upbringing in alt Toa Diena and what made it so
special to you.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Sure, as a kid, I didn't know anything different. It
was just kind of where I grew up and went
to church there, raised a family there. I wasn't really
until I sort of broadened my horizons before I realized
that Altadena had a reputation. You know, it was kind
of the bougie the bougie place, right, And you know,
(01:14):
it's not how I remember it, but that's how that's
the reputation I had. But over the years, I've also
been involved in all sorts of service in Altadena, and
from the service perspective, you get to see a broad
sort of a broad portrait of what the what the
place really is. I'm sure you've heard that eighty one
percent of the black residents there own their homes. That's
(01:37):
about twice what it is in places like Atlanta.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Twice what it is in Atlanta. I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, I think the reason I brought that stat up
in a question about what it was like for me
being there is that it's all sort of intertwined. What
was normal to me was a middle class and upper
class Black community, and that was that's really sort of
(02:05):
typified by some of those stats, those census tract stats
that you know that kind of describe who we who
we were. Most of my friends graduated from college, A
large proportion of them also went on to do master's
degrees or terminal degrees, and that that was normal.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So that was I love that that was normal for
the area. So let's go back, let's talk about the
early origins of Altadena and paint a full picture. What
should people understand about how this community first came to.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Be sure, So John Woodbury founded Altadena. At that time,
it was mostly this open land. He bought an awful
lot of land, founded the town. It wasn't until much
later that we started to see a real black population,
(02:58):
mostly in the mid century when houses became available after
Fair Housing Act and so forth. So you know, that's
sort of the real growth of African Americans. But the
draw for African Americans specifically to Altadena goes back to
Harper's Ferry. So John Brown led a raid of Harper's Ferry.
(03:21):
The idea was to take it was the armory. There
was to take the the the weapons from the armory
and give them the slaves and to allow them to
fight their way out of slavery. Didn't go so well
for the raiders for the most part, they were most
of them were killed. John Brown himself actually escaped but
(03:43):
was then executed, was hanged. His two sons moved to Altadena,
and so Owen Brown was his older son, who was
also a very well known abolitionist, sort of retired to Altadena.
But that set the tone of Altadena as a place
that was sort of friendly to or at least had
(04:04):
an understanding of the plight of African Americans. It didn't
necessarily change everything in Altadena, but at least it created
a beacon effect in Altadena.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
So what time period was this, that's eighteen hundred.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
As matter of fact, the raid on Harper's Ferry is
arguably the most important historical event that sort of sparked
the Civil War. It was almost it created a lot
of sort of paramilitary conflict between Union, the Union and
the Confederacy, and it was sort of almost like a
(04:38):
setup for the Civil War.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So why do you think so few people know this story?
Why isn't Altadena more widely recognized for this rich history.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So history is written by the victors, and so we
have to understand what the fight is really for. And
so if we understand that the fight is for power, influence,
control of resources, control of labor, et cetera, then we
understand why that history isn't part of the narrative.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's so true.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yeah, Altadena is sort of sandwiched between Pasady and the Foothills,
So most people sort of think of it as a
as an extension of Pasadena, and it's kind of the
way that it was was founded. But the folks that
have been through there and that have lived there, I'll
read off of this Octavia Butler, Sidney Poitier, Jackie Robinson,
(05:34):
the baseball player Elgis Cleaver, had a McDaniel, Jane Kennedy.
There's a much longer list than that, but those are
just some names that that will immediately ring a bell.
Those people all lived in Altadena and not you know,
just moved in there for a year, you know, they
they lived there and so that was the you know,
it was a core of black culture and black excellence.
(05:57):
If you can imagine these people had addresses there, you
can imagine who came in and out of Altadena. So
Altadena was was not an unknown place. But the history
of Altadena is quickly forgotten in today's zeitgeist. That shouldn't
be confused with it being forgotten by Altadenas who lived
(06:19):
there and people who are associated. So people who live
in Altadena understand how special it is. People who grew
up there understand how special it is. And also the
County of Los Angeles understands how special it is. I
think that when I was on council and I was
advocating for Altadena, it's probably the easiest, easiest job ever,
was just to bring up a need in Altadena, and
it was it was, you know, it was a dressed
(06:41):
in one way or another.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You know. So in episode two we touched on redlining.
But now that I have you here, I want to
go a little deeper. Can you break down how redlining
shaped the Altadena we know today?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So redlining was made, was found to be unconstitutional nationwide,
didn't mean that it stopped. It just meant that the
law was on the side of African American families that
wanted to buy. But it still took an advocate realtor
to actually sell you property. African Americans weren't allowed to
(07:18):
have licenses, so there were no African American realtors selling
property in Altadena West or East. But a realtor named
Ernie Roberts was sort of was a champion of equity
in home ownership, and so she would set up ways
for African Americans to buy homes. I don't know if
(07:40):
it was sus straw buyers. I would assume that that's
probably part of it. The history is sort of sketchy
on exactly how she pulled it off, but she was
instrumental in getting you know, black ownership of homes now,
the idea of East altadina versus West Altadena. Anyone who
grew up there like me, knows that West Altadena is
the black side of town and East Altadena is. It's
(08:00):
not that hasn't always been the case. So some of
the early early development was in West Altadena, and that's
where white families were allowed to settle. In East Altadena,
black families were there, but in a sort of a
less developed area at a certain point in history. And
(08:22):
it's hard to figure out exactly how this happened, but
we can kind of guess white started to move east
and take the larger, undeveloped areas and make larger, more
palatial estates and larger lots, leaving the West Altadena area
for the African American population.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
So switching gears just a little bit. We know historically
black families face more hurdles when it comes to rebuilding
after disasters. What do you think lies ahead for Altadena?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Sure, so if we just try to build back the
way that we have, we can we can create. What
we narrative talks about is generational wealth. So the idea
of eighty one percent of African Americans owning their homes
in West Altadena, it's that that's a narrative of generational
wealth that doesn't exist in other places. But really, when
(09:14):
we talk about black generational wealth, what we're really talking
about is Black generational not struggling. Right, So I have
a very low standard for what wealth is. I say,
if you can, if you can sustain your way of
life without having to work, then you're wealthy. That's a
very low standard. But most people who own their own
homes in Altadena aren't in that category, so they're not
(09:35):
really wealthy. Now there's an opportunity for wealth if the
African American or anyone in that area who is now
redeveloping can realize the types of increased value that a
developer would if they get their hands on your lot.
The highest and best use of a lot is the
maximizing of it as a financial asset, and so that
(10:00):
is I think central to this redevelopment effort is educating
and providing the resources to allow people who own property
to elevate their property to highest and best use as
opposed to just building back what was there and then
trying to beat off developers who are hungry to take
that property and develop at the highest and best use.
(10:21):
Understanding the difference between restoration and reimagination is the key.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So yeah, that's the key. So okay, let's talk solutions. Now,
what in your view is the best way to build
generational wealth in a community like Altadena.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
If generational wealth is your primary goal, then the idea
here is how do I maximize the value of this
real estate. So, in other words, if you have a
single family home and you instead of just building back
a single family home, you build back for single family homes,
then you have more value. So just to give you
(11:00):
give you a quick example. You have a single family
home on a lot, single family lot. You use SB
nine to split that lot into two. Now you have
two lots that can each hold a home and an ADU.
And when people think of ADUs they think of a
converted garage. But it doesn't have to be that way.
You can have a twelve hundred square foot ADU. It
can be attached to your home or detached. So now
(11:23):
you have four units at twelve hundred square feet or
so and through David Sterling, or should the Altadena be
able to through the county adopt SB ten or AB
ten thirty three ways to split those ADUs off and
give them their own APN numbers. If you have four
(11:46):
separate piece of property with its own APN you can
borrow against them helock style and use that money to
invest in real estate other places without selling them, so
you still hold on to all your property. You have
more utility because more people can and live there, and
you also have access to cash. They a million and
a half dollars to invest in real estate elsewhere. You
could buy ten condos in Baltimore.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
For that, You definitely could. So let's let's let's talk
about that because there's been a lot of talk about
developers who are eyeing Alta Dina and with all this
history and the legacy on the line, how do you
make sure that Altadena is protected?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
So I think that choice has to be given. Some
people want to reserve, want to recover the rich history
of single family home with the barbecue in the back.
That's how they grew up and that's what they want
to restore. And that's valid. But there's another part of
the history, which is the economic power that comes with
land ownership. And each person has to make up their
(12:46):
mind for themselves. What's what's the you know what their
goal is. But if you're looking for a way to
maximize your your family's generational financial security or move it
towards wealth, then you have to maximize the value of
your real estate through development. Most people can't become a
developer if there's a lot of you know, learning that
(13:09):
has to happen, and you have to have a good team.
So part of this process has to be providing resources
to support people who decide that they want to go
to development route rather than selling to a developer.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
So what would you say are some of the biggest
challenges Altadena faces when it comes to rebuilding.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I think that we perish for lack of knowledge, and
that's not a dig on Altadena. That's a dig on
the resources for having not presented themselves. So part of
the job of government is to make available to the
people its constituents all the tools they need to live
(13:52):
a better life. In the case of Altadena, the average
value of a single family home is one point three
million dollars. Most people who live there couldn't afford to
buy their own home in the current in the current market.
But at the same time that one point three million
dollars in real estate could be five million dollars in
(14:12):
real estate with the proper guidance. And so part of
the challenge here is that people don't know what's possible.
Most people have never heard of any of the state
bills or Assembly bills. They don't understand the density perspectives
of the state and the county and the initiatives that
are that are associated with them. And so in order
(14:33):
to support the population there, we have to support them
with knowledge, and we have to support them with administrative support.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
You know, oftentimes when people hear black community, they also,
for some reason hear the word poor. But Altadena was
not that. This is California's first middle class black community.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yes, sure, we think it was and still and still is.
When we think of black excellence in southern California and
La County, we tend to think of Ladera and you know,
some areas around, but Altadena sort of is off the list.
But I think it's kind of un intentional in a way.
It's sort of like this low key kind of place
(15:17):
to escape to it's not pretentious. A lot of the
homes are a turn of the century and have a
lot of characters, a lot of craftsmen homes and old
Spanish style homes and so forth. But it's less about
the built environment and about the built community. The community
in Altadena, the ownership of eighty one percent, a lot
of it is really because people didn't leave. They liked
(15:39):
to be there, and so they stayed generation after generation,
and so it gives you time. Even though African American
accumulated wealth is twelve cents on the dollar to the
majority population, people were able to pay off their real
estate because they stayed generation after generation and they didn't
borrow against their homes in many cases, so a lot
of the homes there were owned free and clear, which
(16:01):
actually brings up another issue. If you don't have a
mortgage company, no one's compelling you to have homeowners insurance.
So a lot of the vulnerability to the fire is
also due to the thing that makes altered in so great.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
You know, I wanted to talk to you about this
because we talked about this a little bit before we
started this interview. What are some of the barriers to
rebuilding when race comes into play.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
So if you think about at the same time that
homes are burning in Palisades, they're also burning in Altadena.
The area around Palisades, in a Malibu, for instance, seems
like it has fires, wildfires almost every year followed by
mud slides. We've had we had fire up in Paradise.
(16:49):
We've had fires running rampant, mostly in in non urban
areas that are mostly majority population and not African American.
Because of those fires in those high risk areas or
higher risk areas, I should say, insurance companies have been
pulling out in raising rates and making it more difficult
for people to have insurance in areas like Altadena or
(17:12):
Ladera or Frankly anywhere else. But if you're dealing with
the population that has accumulated wealth of twelve cents in
the dollar and then you ask them to pay elevated
insurance premiums because of what has happened in more affluent areas,
there's an issue you know of equity there in you
know in how that that plays out. But if it's
(17:34):
not just about the insurance rates, it's also about the
withdrawing of insurance coverage state farm leaving. You know, the
state and so forth. So you know, all of these
things sort of come together in this disastrous moment where
people have, you know, these one point three million dollar
homes that they couldn't replace any other any other plays
(17:56):
that isn't carrying insurance, and we have a ninety eight
mile an hour or firestorm coming through. I mean, I
just and none of it started was I mean, obviously
you should hold insurance on your home no matter what,
if you can, but if you can part is the
difficult part. Not everyone can.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
What about people who didn't have insurance? Are there any
realistic avenues for them to take when it comes to rebuilding?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, so there are people have a choice of a
number of things, and it's important to realize that everyone's
not in the space where they want to rebuild for
one reason or another. So when the fire came, people
had their homes for sale for whatever reason. There were
other people who were already in escrow. There were people
(18:44):
going through a divorce, there were people who were in foreclosure.
I mean, all of the things that happen in life
were all happening when the fire hit. And so part
of this is figuring out how to create a path
forward for all of those scenarios. But for those who
want to rebuild and weren't covered by insurance, they do
have some options, so FEMA provides money. Many of them
(19:07):
had gofund me accounts and so forth. But then there's
also construction lending. So if you own the vacant lot
and you want to add value to it, a vacant
lot now today, I think the first one sold for
about four hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So if you
can imagine you have a home that's worth average value
one point three million, and you have a four hundred
(19:28):
thousand dollars a lot paid for, then you can get
a construction loan to build an improvement on that land.
You now have a mortgage where you didn't before, but
you can rebuild. And in that case especially, I would
recommend taking that construction loan to max out the property
with value so that you can sell off part of
(19:48):
it and live there for free if you'd like, or
just use the equity as liquid cash to invest. But
you know, in that case, that's that's a perfect sort
of case study for why it's important to have the
option to develop.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
You know what I want to ask you, I think
you're the perfect person to ask for people listening outside
the area who are not familiar with Altadena, what do
they need to understand the most about this community, especially
in this moment.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, I think that altadenas an incredible case study, not
just for its community, but for California more broadly. A
lot of the legislation that we have now allows for
increased density, but there's still a lot of local pushback.
Using Altadena as a case study, I developed there in
(20:45):
Altadena and found, you know, sort of some of the
setbacks oppressive, especially in West Altadena. So the code says
that you're supposed to zoning says that you're supposed to
maintain the front setback that's the average of the front
yards on that block. Well, some developer who decided they
wanted to sell set those setbacks, you know, in nineteen
(21:07):
forty or forty eight or fifty. For some reason, now
we feel it's important to maintain what that developer did
as a sales tactic, which is essentially a taking of
someone's front yard that could be used for whatever they
want to use it for. And so, you know, some
of this as a case study Annalcadena could be applied
more broadly that right now people were struggling for housing density.
(21:31):
We're struggling to you know, to create enough units and
to use what we have. Adding eight us and all
these types of things, you know, sort of ease the pain.
But we're skipping past some of the most obvious opportunity.
Why do we need this big open space in the front.
Why why can't we have an attached garage that has
the same setback as a detached garage. A lot of
(21:54):
these codes just are oppressive. And if we can sort
of remove the fetters and let people develop out their
land to its highest and best use in utilitarian fashion,
then it becomes a higher, highest and best use as
a as a financial asset class.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
And I want to just get a little personal You
grew up in Altadena and now the neighborhood that you
called home is gone. Talk to me about what that
is like on a personal level.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I didn't think it would affect me the way that
it did. My wife and I both grew up in
the area, and so our friends from school, our neighbors,
our church family. Everyone was there, and most of who
we know who were still there lost their homes. I
(22:50):
think thirty some odd families from our church, you know,
people went to high school with and like that. I
started traveling back to up to Altadena, now down in
the in the Peninsula, but I travel up. I started
traveling up to Altadena as soon as as soon as
the fires were as soon as it happened, and meetings started,
(23:10):
public meetings started, and so at first, of course we
couldn't get into Altadena. And so we've come to Pasadena
and the meetings were close to the border, and you
could smell the smoke and ash. It wasn't until maybe
I don't know, two weeks almost later, before we were
able to really drive through. And I'd already seen the
(23:31):
aerial photos from CNN, and so I thought I was prepared,
but nothing prepares you for actually being present in that place.
In that way, it looks like someone went to war
against against the neighborhood. And I couldn't help but sort
(23:52):
of understand the parallels between what happened there and what
happened in other places like Greenwood and Mount Bayou and Rosewood.
I mean, so many places that were deliberately burned to
the ground. And I can only imagine what it would
be like to watch someone light your home on fire,
in your neighbor's house on fire. Clearly, this wasn't a
deliberate act of terrorism, but it was negligence, and some
(24:15):
could argue it was it was deliberate negligence. You know.
Edison received phone calls.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
That the.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Sparks were flying, and then the winds were high and
the power was still on until the ninety eight mile
an hour winds were blowing the fire through Altadena. If
you see the aerial photos during the fire, it seems
like the entire city is on fire. At the same time,
there's no fire line to fight for the fire fire,
(24:47):
just to fight, and knowing that the wind is moving
at ninety eight miles an hour, you can imagine what
that was like on the ground for people who were
stuck there and were trying to get out. So it
moved me deeply, I think, you know, my first few
times through there, you know, I was choked up, and
you know, I'm not gonna admit on camera that I
was crying, but it was harsh.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
There's no shame in that. This is emotional, it's personal.
That just shows how deeply you care. So thanks for
being real with us. Right, So in episode three, we
talked about how the warnings came too late for many.
You know, how the West side didn't receive an alert
until eight hours after the east and some people can't
(25:33):
help but wonder was that a mistake or was that
something more intentional.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I think one of the hardest parts of being black
in America in current time. I shouldn't say one of
the hardest, maybe one of the most present elements, is
always questioning you don't know what was incidental or what
was intentional. So you know, when you get pulled over,
(25:59):
I get pulled over because I'm black. When I don't
get alerted, my house burns down. Did that happen because
I'm black? And I'm sure that anyone is not black
who is always thinking? Well, why are you always? But
it's because history always bears out over and over and
over again, how some of you know so many things
were intentional. Now I don't have any evidence that this
was intentional, and I want to believe that it's not.
(26:21):
But it doesn't mean that the systemic issues don't still
result in the same thing. For people to be not alerted,
for the power not to be cut. All of these
things are you know, they point to systemic issues that
put lives in danger and certainly people's homes in danger.
I do want to bring up really important aspect of Altadena.
(26:44):
Though Altadena is often referred to as an African American
story because of the impressive African American population, but the
population of Altadena that is African American is less than
twenty percent. It's not that that Altadena is mostly African American.
(27:07):
It's that the African American population that's there is outstanding.
And so it's part of the complexity of this is
that as we talk about it as an African American community,
the resources are being withheld because of systemic racism that
doesn't want to give money to, you know, to an
(27:29):
African American community. But the white families and the Latino families,
and there's actually a significant Japanese population in Altadena as well,
they are all suffering along with the African American community.
I want to clarify I said resources are being withheld.
I'm not talking about necessarily money. But I will say
(27:49):
that when we had a visit from the President of
the United States to come and see the affected areas,
the President landed and walked and toward one area, but
not the other. And I don't find it to be
coincidence that African American stories were the narrative around Altadena
and we didn't see a visit from the President of
(28:10):
the United States. So the resources, attention and whatever else.
I don't have any actual metrics to but I can,
but I can see exactly what's happening as it's happening
in real time.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So when we talk about the rebuilding process itself, from
your knowledge, what does that timeline actually look like.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, so this type of disaster isn't brand new, unfortunately,
and every time we go through one of these we
in Hawaii in Paradise, the emergency response teams learn and improve,
(28:53):
and so the hope is that they'll be faster than
they were in Hawaii, which was actually fast in a
lot of ways than it was up in Paradise. But
there are a lot of moving parts. So with the
new administration, there's been you know, shakeups in leadership, and
so it's hard to know exactly you know, how things
(29:15):
will play out. But I think that one thing that
we can be sure of is that in an area
with one point three million dollar homes decimated, resources are available,
whether they're private, private, funds or public funds or insurance claims,
(29:36):
resources are available to rebuild. The key is actually in
how people are educated to be able to do that,
whether they're displaced, and so the question was really about timeline,
and so the timeline changes depending on who's doing the developing.
It's going to be slower for people to develop themselves.
On that. I'd give it, you know, five between the
(29:58):
five and ten year mar for a lot of people
to actually develop their own property and be finished with it.
If a developer comes in and scoops up your land,
it can have an expertit to permit and have it
done within eighteen months.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
So I read somewhere that fifty seven percent of black
homeowners in Altadena are over the age of sixty five,
So how does that timeline work for them?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
If you are an older person and your primary interest
is in legacy, then you may be developing, but you're
probably not developing for yourself.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
It's a good point. You're passing it down to your family,
You're passing it down.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Maybe your primary interest is nostalgia because that's the place
where you raise your family and you want to preserve
that almost you know, shrine to your family. That's a
legitimate cause, you know. So people have to determine what's
most important to them in the end, and regardless of
(31:01):
our emotional attachment, real estate is an asset class. As
a developer myself, I think of it like a bond.
You have a purchase price outgoing cash flow, and then
it has accumulated value moving forward. And it came a
case of a home. It appreciates naturally with inflation, but
also as incoming cash flows. So you might think if
(31:23):
you live in it, it doesn't have incoming cash flows,
but it does. It actually has your rent that you
would be paying as the incoming cash flow because you're
actually actually consuming the service of shelter from that asset. Now,
I set all that technical stuff specifically for this reason.
If you understand real estate as an asset class, and
you're in this moment, you have this unique opportunity to
(31:46):
increase the value of your asset. That's the non emotional
way to look at it. It's not devoid of emotion
because these are people's homes. But if you can put
those two things together and say, look, I'm going to
build a new home for myself, I'm also going to
increase the value as an asset and to learn how
to do that, then I think that's for me, that
(32:06):
would be the winning, winning way to go.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah, doctor Munson, again, thank you so much for having
this conversation with me. Before we go, I'd love to
hear your vision. What does the future of out ta
Dina look like? Through your eyes?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Altadena Strong isn't just a slogan, it's it's actually sort
of a throughput for through line, I should say, from
from grandma's to you know, to moms and dads to
you know, to their children. Most of the people that
I know from Altadena that I went to high school
with that are still there. They fit into that narrative
and they're not going anywhere. They're going to rebuild. The
(32:41):
way I see it going forward in the most positive
way is that people max out the value of their
property and they become millionaires on this tragedy. But they
use this opportunity to build a home, not the same
home that they were in, but build a home that
has more usability, that has is you know, more energy
(33:02):
efficient uh materials, more sustainable with solar panels and ev
charging multiple units, their income properties. All of this can
happen rather than putting back what was there. That's what
I see as the as the you know, sort of
the brass ring. Hopefully you know that'll it'll happen that way.
I don't have as much say so I'm I don't
(33:22):
live in Altaden anymore, but you know, but I'm there
for my people, and you know, I really I am
available to to try to help people to to move
on and move on, you know, a way that you
know provides that genuine generational wealth.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
And last question for people who want to connect with
you or learn more, where can they find you?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, Muscinfactory dot com is the website and if you
get there, you'll find a bunch of stuff. Our our
primary customer pool is is government, So skip past all
that stuff if you like, and go directly to the
contact page and then you know, someone on my staff
will will find that message and get it to me.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Well, doctors, and we appreciate you for sharing your heart,
your wisdom, and your deep connection to Alta Dina. This
bonus episode is exactly what to outta Dina with love
is all about honoring the past, making sense of the present,
and holding space for what's next. Make sure you download
and follow the podcast wherever you listen and head to
(34:20):
to outta Dina with Love dot com to hear more
about the series. I Mimi Brown, Thanks for tuning in.
This is to out to Dina with Love.
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