May 20, 2023 • 42 mins
Kalie talks about the hot and frequently misunderstood topic of narcissistic people, specifically focusing on friendship and other non-romantic relationships. Sharing research by Dr. Ramany Durvasula (among other medical experts in the field of NPD/Narcissism), she deconstructs myth while sharing her experiences and signs to look for if you think you may be dealing with a narcissistic person.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, I'm Kaylee Shore and this is too much
to say, but don't go has some questions, so I'm
as said, now tell it out.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
You, okay.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
On this week's episode, we are going to be discussing
a hot button topic about narcissists. But a lot of
the information out there, a lot of the podcasts out
there skew towards dating and marriage and occasionally parents, so
those types of narcissistic relationships. But this week I'm going
to focus on friends. I think that that's a really
important one, especially if you're the kind of person who
(00:40):
has like really really close friendships, deep friendships, you can
attract these kind of people. And I also want to
dispel some myths about narcissism. The word is grossly overused
and it's really important to understand it before you ever
call somebody that. And I would like to say a disclaimer.
I am not a doctor. I have a high school
degree and fifteen years of experience in the music industry,
(01:01):
but I do have a lifetime's worth of experience dealing
with these types of people. That being said, all of
the information that I'm using today comes from doctors. Like
I didn't do any sketchy sources double checked everything, but
specifically Alice Frye doctor Alice fry and doctor Romani de Vasulam,
(01:24):
and they're both amazing. They're experts in the field of
narcissism and they do a lot of research on that.
Doctor Romney has an amazing podcast. I highly recommend you
check it out, and listening to her podcast is part
of what inspired me to do this episode. So one
of the biggest miss about narcissism, according to doctor Romney,
is that it is only a personality disorder, where in fact,
(01:48):
it's actually a personality trait. It's something that you can
have the same way that you could be agreeable. And
that's also an important word because a lot of people,
if you ask them what the opposite of a narcissist is,
they'd say, like, oh, like someone who's humble. But the
opposite of narcissism is actually agreeableness, agreeability, whatever that word
(02:09):
would be. It's being agreeable, and narcissm goes so much
deeper than just like being vain and liking yourself. And
that's a huge, huge misconception. These aren't people who stare
in the mirror all day. They're actually people who can't
look in the mirror, so they just say everything to
other people that they would like to say to themselves,
(02:30):
but they're never going to do it. So everyone that
I'm talking about on this podcast, with my personal experience,
I'm not trying to diagnose anybody, but it is absolutely
glaring that they have some narcissistic tendencies. So doctor alis
Fry says that narcissism turns into a disorder when those
traits happen persistently and constantly and they affect the narcissist
(02:53):
daily life. They go from just like a quirk or
something that you can work on over time, something to
talk about therapy, something to like look inside yourself, to
something that is really difficult to treat. And there's some
really fascinating stuff out there by narcissists talking about narcissism.
So it's there's one called the self aware Narcissist, and
(03:14):
it's really fascinating because he lets you in on what
it's like inside his brain. And I thought that was
actually really hopeful because I also believed that if someone
is diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, there's no treating them.
A very close member of my family got diagnosed with that,
and those are also rare diagnosis to get because narcisis
typically hate therapy or they're really good aligning to their therapists.
(03:38):
Even doctor Romney, who's an expert, said on the Call
Her Daddy podcast that sometimes she'll take months with a
patient before realizing they're narcissist. And I think that that's
terrifying and tells you how good these people are at
manipulating people's opinions of them and just the world around them.
So the DSMV, which is like the Diagnostic Manual of
(04:04):
Mental disorders, that's like the I mean, it's like the
magnum opus of that. That's where what doctor's reference. It's
like the thing. They describe narcissistic personality disorder as an
overwhelming sense of self importance, an obsession with fantasies about
being incredibly successful, powerful, intelligent, attractive, or loved. A belief
(04:25):
that they are more special and unique than others. A
need for excessive admiration, a strong sense of entitlement, a
habit of constantly taking advantage of other people, a lack
of empathy towards others, an envy of others, and a
haughty attitude, and if you take each one of those
things and separate them, like you're likely to relate to
something I just read because humans are imperfect. I absolutely,
(04:49):
I mean, I also have an obsession with fantasies about
being incredibly successful, powerful, intelligent, attractive, and loved. I'd like
to be all of those things. I, however, will not
bulldoze somebody else to get that, and I won't lie
to somebody else to get that. And who doesn't want
excessive admiration, right, But there's a point where it just
becomes like icky, like I want to be admired by
(05:12):
the people closest to me. And I also found out
as I've gotten older, I'm like, Okay, I don't like attension.
I like validation. I want someone to tell me, hey,
you're really good at writing songs and you should keep
doing that. I don't want like a hundred people coming
at me and being like, oh, like like staring at
me on the street.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I don't want that.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
I just want to be told that I'm good at
the things that I love. But yeah, so you're probably
gonna see some of yourself in that list. But again,
doctor alis Fry says, it's one It just like affects
your daily life on a grand scale. And I do
think that like the more severe ones that come at
the end of the list, like habit of constantly taking
advantage of other people, lack of empathy, envy of others,
(05:53):
in a haughty attitude, those ones are that like, we
shouldn't relate to, you know, and the taking advantage of
thing is big, and we're really we're going to talk
a lot about that. Narcissm is actually rooted in the
opposite of high esteem of oneself. So it's actually not
about being vain as much as it is about being
(06:14):
so insecure. So these aren't just people who look in
the mirror all the time. They're people who can't look
at themselves in the mirror and just say everything to
everybody else, and that is a really hard thing to
be around. Studies show that between three and six percent
of people have narcissis to personality disorder, So that's not
(06:35):
even accounting for the people who have just like narcissistic tendencies,
but it says between three and six percent. However, there's
not a lot of information on this because narcists are
unlikely to identify as narcissists. They're unlikely to identify as
anything other than amazing, but chances are you've met one.
We all meet hundreds of people in our lives, and
(06:57):
it would make sense that a handful of those people
you meet would have narcissis personality disorder. So if you're
like I feel like I've come across quite a few
people with these tendencies. But I do also think that
agreeable people or people who just give a lot tend
to attract those kind of, you know, self centered people
who want to take advantage of them. And I have
(07:19):
gotten really good at setting boundaries as I've gotten older,
and I feel like kind of ungaslightable and it feels
so good. I've been working on this in therapy. But
this has not always been like that. I have been
so gullible, just given so much of myself to people
who could not give less of a fuck about me,
and I have been there. I've been there with men,
family members, never dated a narcisstic girl, but I have
(07:44):
been really good friends with one, so that's difficult. There's
actually some studies as well that show that people have
narcissistic personality disorder have less gray matter in their brain
in the area that's related to empathy, and that's according
to the Mayo Clinic. And then as far as where
it comes from, you could have narcissistic parents and both
(08:05):
have some sort of like genetic component to that, but
also learn from modeling yourself after them. You also can
have just toxic parents in a different way. People who
are narcissists are very likely to come from homes where
they either had an insane amount of pressure on them
or an insane amount of excusing their behavior and letting
(08:26):
them get away with anything. So like a parent who
would be like, you're such a huge disappointment, you got
to be on your test, or the kid goes and
like lights some shit on fire and they're like, oh,
that's just how they are, Like that's the kind of
people we're talking about. It is one of the hardest
to treat conditions for the reason that I said earlier,
like narcissists don't go to therapy, they don't seek help.
(08:48):
But it is amazing to see that there are people
like the guy who runs the Self Aware a Narcissist
podcast who are seeking help and working on themselves, and
that makes me feel so much better talking about this
topic because the whole like throw the whole person away
thing really stresses me out. But it's also like, you
do have to cut off the narcissist in your life,
(09:08):
but there is room for improvement and self awareness, and
I just think that that's very, very hopeful and helpful.
We're gonna take a quick break and then we will
be back and I'm going to talk about some of
my personal experiences with this. So we're gonna spill some tea.
I will see you guys in a bit. Okay, So
(09:33):
I'm gonna kind of do this part backwards, and I'm
going to tell you some stories about my experiences with
people that I consider to be very narcissistic, and then
I'm going to tell you what to look for, and
then you'll be able to kind of see the whole
picture come together from the story and all the red
flags that I missed that you don't have to because
you can research this earlier in your life than I did. Okay,
(09:56):
So I think that my ex boyfriend had some really
narcisstic quality. I don't know if he was like, I
don't want to say smart, but I don't know if
he was like conniving enough he just had really bad
rage issues. And it's the guy that my song e
Fie Forever is about. And there was some really scary
(10:17):
moments in our relationship. The first one that I can
really remember that wasn't just like little stuff like the
first well, the first little thing that happened, I guess
is maybe not that little, but like he lied to
me about how many people he'd slept with, and that
is one thing, but he had actually slept with somebody
after we started sleeping together and we weren't officially exclusive,
(10:41):
but I had asked him if he was sleeping with
anybody else because I was, you know, really paranoid about STDs,
which is a very okay thing to be paranoid about.
And he said, no, I haven't and I'm not and
I was like okay. And then when I we got
to the point in our relationship like a couple months later,
I was like, oh, how many people have you slept with?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Told me how many?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
And like you know who they were, because it wasn't
that many at that point and was life things have changed.
But but then a couple months later I found out
he did a nude shoot with this girl he hooked
up with before and I was like, hey, can you please, like,
(11:22):
you know, if you're gonna do a nude shoot with her?
Because I'm a cool girlfriend. I was like, could you
just like have somebody else there, like a makeup artist
or whatever. And he was like, oh, yeah, I guess so,
and I was like, yeah, that's really important to me,
and like if she so basically like, if you're alone,
could she keep her clothes on? If she won't keep
her clothes on, can you not be alone? And I
think that's a really fair compromise. And he told me
(11:45):
he did that, and I was like, okay, So we
lived together at this point, and he is showing me
some pictures on his laptop of the shoot that he
did with this girl, and I was like trying to
be supportive, and then I like saw something kind of sketchy,
like she she like was wearing like all of a sudden,
she's wearing like the Risky Business Tom Cruise, like button
down white shirt and like no pants, and I was like, hmmm,
(12:08):
where did her pants go? And then I just reached
over and I pressed the forward arrow on his laptop
keyboard like really really fast, and immediately found all these
like nudes he'd taken of her, and I was just
so fucking pissed. So I like, grab my person and
I leave. I go to a friend's house and I
come back to my house later to get some more
(12:28):
stuff because I was.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Not planning on coming back anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
And I was like, you know what, fuck it, I'm
gonna look at his laptop because I don't trust him,
and I feel like, you know, I acknowledged that this
is wrong, but I'm going to do it, and I'm
going to own that I'm wrong in this scenario. And
because I think, I'm gonna find something out. And I
found out that he had slept with our roommate's best friend,
who was over the house all the time, like maybe
(12:54):
a week or two before we started officially dating. And
I just never liked this girl. I always thought she
was really weird to me, and it turns out she
was like in love with my boyfriend, and that was
a whole thing. And then I got back together with
him because I'm a fucking idiot, but that was like,
that is a great microcosm of the issues in our relationship.
(13:14):
And then as time went on, he kind of got
you know, more controlling and more jealous of stuff with
my career. But then it all came to a head.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
One night.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
He was really drunk at a party that I was
at and it was like a work party and I
was performing and really needed to be like on my
game because there was some investors there and there's an
open bar and it was really fun. But he drank
too much and I wasn't drinking at all because I
was trying to network and I was like driving everybody,
and I was like, I'm gonna be responsible, and he
(13:46):
had just like twelve too many Gen and Tonics. That's
an exaggeration, Okay, when I'm talking about people, I need
to not exaggerate. I he had like probably like eight
too many Gen and Tonics. And on the riot, he
started talking really loudly while somebody else was performing, and
I like leaned over and then like the nicest twenty
(14:07):
two year old Kaylee Way, I like was like, hey,
like I think you might be louder than you realize
you are, and like this girl's playing like a really
like kind of quiet song, like maybe you could like
bring it down a little bit, and his face just drops,
like all the blood drained out of his body and
he was like, okay, we need to go, and I
was like, well, I don't really want to go, and
he's like, no, we need to go, and he goes
outside and I was like okay, fine, So I follow
(14:27):
him out and everybody leaves, and then when him and
I are in the car alone after we like leave
our friends, he starts crying and screaming and saying that
I embarrassed him. And then all of a sudden, he's
like banging his fists on my dashboard and then like
reaching over and like hitting my steering wheel with his fist,
(14:49):
like trying to like run us off the road. And
I was like, what the fuck? And he's just like
crying and his voice is so deep and like loud,
and so it's really upsetting when he would yell because
it just always sounded scary than it was, but it
was very scary.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
In that moment.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
And so that was like the first time there was
violence of any sort involved. And I wouldn't really even
have called that violence, but I will now because it
was like a I mean, he.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Tried to run the car off the road.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I feel like that's look at me and gaslighting myself
for him. He doesn't even have to do it anymore anyways.
So six months later was when the incident that I
talked about in Effie Forever happened where he cheated on me.
I took a week because my therapist told me to
to like break, like take a.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Breather, but we weren't on a break at all.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I wouldn't stay at a friend's house, but I was like,
I just need some like space from this to think
about it. If I get back together with you, like
we're getting married, and I'm we're never breaking up if
we make it through this, So I'm trying to be
responsible and he just like at first was like okay, cool,
that's like really mature, that makes sense. And then he
starts like losing his mind. And my best friend at
the time invited us both to our birthday party, and
(16:05):
like I am like, why would you invite this guy
that your fucking best friends having issues with to your
birthday party? So we have to hang out, and once again,
I was not drinking because I was like really emotional
and didn't want to be around him, and I was
like trying to be there for my friend because like birthdays.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Are very important, and.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
He like gets really drunk at this party and pulls
me into another room and is like, I want to
talk to you, like I want to get back together.
And I was like, dude, we have couples therapy scheduled
tomorrow morning at eight am, and like we're going to
talk about this with somebody there, and we're going to
do this the right way, Like I'm not talking to
you about this when you're wasted and I'm sober and
we're tired. And he was like okay, fine, And then
(16:48):
we get in the uber with like three of our
friends to go back to our apartment because I was
going to get some like more stuff and then go
back to my friends, who were two of the girls
in the car with us, and the Uber driver's like,
how's your night going.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
And he's like it's going awful.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Thanks for asking, And I was like, okay, get back
to the apartment. And I'm like thinking, I'm I'm safe.
I thought he was just gonna be kind of moody
because there's so many people around, like two of our
friends around the balcony, one was in the living room,
I'm in the bathroom, and I'm kind of like having
a moment, like a little panic attack, just giving to myself.
I was getting my skincare stuff and then I just
sat up against the bathtub and I was just like, I.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Just need to breathe for a second.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
That was a lot to have to be around him
for that long. And then he comes into the bathroom
like bangs on the door, opens it up, and I
don't open it up. He just walks in and he
like sits in front of me. He's like, I need
to know if you're breaking up with me, and I
was like, well, the point is like I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I'm not gonna say that because we're talking about it
in therapy and like I want to do this the
right way. And he was like, I need you to
tell me, and then he just starts repeating himself like
I need you tell me, I need you tell me.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You got to tell me. I need you to tell me.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And that's like kind of freaky when someone talks to
you like that. And then his voice gets louder and louder,
and he starts he grabs me by the shoulders and
he shakes me and slams me up against the bathtom
and he's like you need to tell me, but.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Like yelling it so loud so deep, like.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Sounds like the fucking gates of Hell opened up, and
I just like went like limp and like could not
believe what was happening.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
And then he was like, are you breaking up with me?
And I was like.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yes, I am, I am. And then he runs out
into the living room, which is like right outside the bathroom,
and just starts screaming like no at the top of
his lungs like held the note for so long it
was like operatic, both in drama and in lung capabilities,
(18:42):
and I was like, God, somebody's gonna call the cops.
And our friends like heard sash saw everything happen, like
they came running as soon as they heard the slamming
because it was very parent that, like, you know, somebody
was being you know, that was happening. So my friend
comes in and sits on the floor with me, and
then he runs out to the parking garage stands on
the edge of the park garage and then somebody comes
and gets me and I was like okay, and I
(19:03):
like they were like, you need to talk him down
off the parking garage because he says he's gonna kill himself.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
And I was like okay.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
And trying to be sensitive, and I like was still
processing the fact that he just like put his hands
on me for the first time in our relationship. And
he's on the edge of the parking garage and he
looks at me. He's like, if I jump, you're gonna
be to blame and it'll be your fault. And I
was like, oh god, well I And I don't even
remember what I said to him, because I think I
just like blacked out from trauma at that point. But
(19:32):
I know I wasn't mean. I know, I didn't yell
or hit back. I just was like weirdly calm because
I was so traumatized in that moment. And so that
whole night was crazy. But then what's crazier is just
how he acted after the breakup and like talks so
much shit about me and you know, fucked my friends
and obviously we're not my friends and just did all
(19:55):
this stuff. And then I know now because I've become
friends with some of his other ex girlfriends, that he
he got even like worse after we broke up, which
is horrible. But that really points to like narcissistic rage
and that kind of like projection, like he cheated on me.
He was angry with himself, but he had to get
(20:15):
angry at me because he wished he could beat himself
up instead, but would never get to the point where
he could acknowledge that. So that was like a big one.
But as far as like other types of narcissus, like
there's some really conniving ones out there. So there's this
strategy that narcisst will do called smear campaigns, And everybody
(20:37):
knows what a smear campaign is, but in the topic
of narcissm, it's specific, and it's when somebody tries to
slowly disassemble your support system and take all these like
safety nets away from you and make everybody hate you.
And there's like I've seen stuff like in high school
where like somebody's mad at a girl because she's like
slept with her boyfriend and every she wants all the
(20:59):
girls to hate that or because you don't want her
to have friends. Like that's that's complicated, that's drama. But
then there's like this smear campaign and basically my friends
starts dating this guy who was my really good friend,
and I don't know what I did. I think I
told I think I told them not to move in
together after knowing each other for five weeks.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
And I will stand by that.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
And I was also like going through a depressive episode
of like bipolar, which I normally just keep to myself.
I take my medicine, I read, I do yoga, I
stay out of bars, and I don't really have a
social battery. So I was doing all the right stuff
that I've learned how to do in therapy, because I've
done a lot of therapy and I know what works
for myself, right, Like we're supposed to trust ourselves when
it comes to self care. But apparently I wasn't like
(21:47):
around enough and they thought I was. I was being
a bad friend, and I was like, well, I'm kind
of depressed and Sam and I are arguing a lot,
and then it just like made no sense. Narcisis don't
make any sense if you ever like really fucking fused
by something like start thinking like this and see if
it adds up.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
But even when I try to, anytime.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I try to tell the story, it just sounds crazy.
But basically, like this guy ends up like slowly dismantling
my life from my adult best friend to my elementary
school best friend, middle school best friend who moved to Nashville,
to like members of Sam's family, to Sam's friends, and
(22:29):
then to Sam himself, and was like trying to get
him to break up with me. And I do not
think it's because this guy had a crush on me.
That would be way too easily explainable. It was just
like some weird thing. And I think it might be
because I recognized he was love bombing my friend and
I'd now seen him go through two breakups that looked
strikingly similar to each other and was kind of like
(22:49):
starting to be like, hmm, this guy's being a little weird.
And Narses really hate being fucking seen. They really hate
being seen. And you know what they love to do.
They love to call you a narcissist. And that's why
we can't throw around the word. I don't think it's
fair to do that, like to someone's face and whatever.
Like you have to think long and hard before you,
you know, come to terms with somebody being narcissistic or
(23:13):
having a personality disorder, and that is something only a
doctor can do. But this shit was like undeniable, and
the lies and the gaslighting, and I have these like
crazy texts from him like I've never gotten in this
long of a text argument, like with a guy that
I wasn't dating. I was like, what the hell, Like,
we don't what like I thought that we only felt
(23:35):
like this with like boyfriends and shit, and he just
was like going off.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
He sent me one of those.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Texts that was so long you had to click on it,
and I was like, God, there's so few people on
the planet I care enough to type that long for
my thumbs would hurt. What are you even doing? And
he said this crazy thing about because I'd lost all
my friends after my breakup with my ex boyfriend because
(24:00):
I don't know, he manipulated people, like got people on
his side whatever.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
And he's like knew that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I was really really like insecure about that and said
something like He's like, you didn't want our whole friend
group to split up like yours did after your breakup.
But that's the track you're putting us on. Deal with
your shit, and I'll keep my distance. I hope you
figure it out. And I was like, I did not
put you on any track. I intentionally kept you off
of it. You all chose to involve yourself as something
you knew you didn't have the full context for and
(24:30):
I was like, appreciate the space I needed, And that's
the last thing we ever said. But like, that's such
a fucking mean thing to say, to be like, everybody's
gonna leave you, just like they did last time. So
when somebody says something like that, that's a huge red flag. Recently,
I've been dealing with somebody who reminds me way too
much of those two people.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
And this person is a woman, and I like hate using.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
My podcast to talk shit about people, but this has
just been so fucking crazy. And this person like stole
from me and I have them like doing something crazy
on camera and they lied about all of it and
it just gasol at me and to oblivion and it's
just been insane and I forgot that like adults behaved
(25:20):
like this, and it's just so like sinister, and I
have proof for all of it. And it's like she
can literally look at a camera and be like, no,
you're hearing that wrong, Like no, I'm not, and she's like, yes,
you are, like just thinking that she can just gaslight
like that. Well, I'm like, girly, uh huh. I've been
to too much therapy for this. And also you're gonna
(25:43):
have to get better at at lying because I can
see right through you, and I don't accuse people of
things unless I have fucking receipts, And with the stealing.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
It was incredibly obvious.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Like I don't wanna tell specifics because then it'll be
you know, I'm just trying to be ethical but also
share my story here. But it's just really frightening to
see how somebody can manipulate you and people around them
and then turn on this like poor me persona and
try to get sympathy and they like use your empathy
(26:15):
against you, and that's just crazy. So without going too
far into that situation, we're going to take a break,
and when we come back, I'm going to give you
some questions to ask yourself about if you might be
friends with an narcist, And all of these questions will
apply to any other relationship you might have with one sibling,
parent dating, and there's lots of resources for that, and
maybe I'll do a follow up episode on like a
(26:37):
more specific relationship, but this one will focus mostly on like.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Friends, and we'll be right back to talk more about that.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
So here's some questions to ask yourself about if you
might be friends with an narcist. This all according to
Choosingthapy dot com. The article is written by two doctors.
You can check it out yourself. But these are kind
of paraphrased into examples that I've seen myself, but I
highly recommend reading the original article. Uh So, somebody, these
(27:14):
all have to be severe. These examples can't just be
like your friend fished for a compliment one time and
was like, are you sure my hair doesn't look stupid
or like whatever. It's like compulsive and endless and never
stops and applies to every situation like this has to
be so fucking severe, So keep that in mind because
(27:34):
sometimes people are just shitty. Sometimes people are just toxic.
They're not always an narcissist. But after you hear these questions,
if you answer hell yes to more than like four
or five, do some listen to some other podcasts of
like actual doctors talking. So a friend who's a narcist
will put their needs first, and that means like financially,
(27:57):
like they might think that they shouldn't have to pay
for dinner because you were the one who invited them
to dinner even though you said nothing about paying. They
will you know, never offer gas money. They'll want you
to drive them everywhere so that they don't have to
spend money on that. They'll just assume things are being
taken care of. Like if you went and bought like
(28:20):
let's say you guys were going to hang out and
you went and bought like a bottle of wine or whatever,
they would never a bring a bottle of wine the
next time, and they would never like offer you any
money for that or it just it's a one way
friendship financially, and then also just somebody who like takes
advantage of your time and they put their needs first
in that way, they run late. They have no apology
(28:42):
or explanation. They don't understand why you're mad that they're late.
They could be an hour late, and you're like, dude,
I have like things to do, like what are you doing?
And they're like, why are you so mad at me?
Like you're so controlling. I have things going on too,
Like why are you acting so entitled to my time?
And they're like and you're like, wait, why are you
acting so entitled to my time? I just sat here
for an hour? What are you talking about? And like
(29:05):
they have a lot of rules that only apply to them.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I e.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Like, if you were ever late, they'd kill you, not literally,
but then the fishing for compliments thing is very very big.
It's like dramatic insecurity, so they might not even like
narcisism is an insecurity disorder, but this is like kind
of like a put on humility and insecurity thing, very
(29:34):
like over the top. Like let's say your friend and
it's something they know the answer to. Let's say your
friend is just got her hair done and it looks
really good and spent a lot of money on it,
and it like looks great objectively, everyone would say it
looks great, and you haven't said anything to her about
her new hair yet because you're just so busy or
you didn't notice or whatever. And she comes up and
(29:56):
she's like, do you think my hair looks ugly? I
think it looks so bad. I feel like everybody's going
to make fun of me, Like it looks so bad, right,
And you're like, no, you look like Jennifer Aniston.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
And they're like, are you sure I don't look ugly?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I just feel like I.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Look ugly in it, And then they'll like bring it
up like ten more times, and you can tell when
that's somebody who's like, hey, do you think my hair
looks bad? I don't know how I feel about it,
versus like something that clearly looks amazing, and they just
want to hear more about how it looks amazing.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
It being amazing is not enough. They must hear about
it as well.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Superficial convos. If you have superficial conversations with your friend
that never go deeper. Let's say you need something like
support because family member dies, they're not going to know
what to say, so they'll just say something like stock
that's like.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Oh, they're in a better place.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Change the subjects start talking about them not have any understanding.
And this friend of mine that I've been dealing with,
like one of our friends did lose somebody, and I
was saying something to the narcissistic friend and I was like, yeah,
I feel like we should. Probably she wanted me to
ask the other girl for something, and I was like, yeah,
(31:11):
I don't really want to do that, Like she's going
through a lot, and I just feel like we should
just take care of this for her because she has
all that going on. And this girl was like, what
does she have going on, I'm like, oh my god,
somebody died last week. What the fuck are you talking about?
And she was like, oh, yeah, I guess so. And
then that same exact conversation happened like again two weeks later,
and I was like, girl, oh my god, like tell
(31:32):
me you have no empathy without telling me you have
no empathy. But another superficial thing is like they'll they'll
ask you no questions about yourself.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
They'll talk about themselves.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
They'll talk about things like looks and boys or girls
or just like very very superficial, superficial things that make
them seem great. They'll brag about themselves a lot. And
there's a difference between a friend like sharing something they're
excited about and a friend who's like trying to seem superior.
And you should trust your.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Judgment on that.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
That friend also may only ask questions about you when
they're going to use them against you. So they also
will mind for information to find things that they can
either throw back in your face or say about you.
So let's say, you know, for me, I had told
that guy friend. I was like, hey, like I'm going
through or I guess I told I told him, But
(32:24):
before that, I told his girlfriend. I was like, I'm
going through a bipolar episode and I'm really not doing great.
I just need to kind of take two weeks and
just ride it out, let it happen, and keep to myself,
and then I'll come out on the other side and
I'll be great. And she told him about it whatever,
and then all of a sudden, two weeks later, he's like, well,
you're mentally unwell and you just haven't been doing well lately,
and like everybody can tell. And I was like, well, yeah,
(32:46):
because I told everybody. And he's like yeah, but you're
making it other people's problem and you're taking it out
on other people. I'm like, how can I take it
out on everybody if I'm not talking to them, if
I'm just like in my room reading, Like that is
the healthiest depression activity one could do that, and you know,
just sleeping, but like just immediately through the back in
my face and was like, well, you're a bipolar and
(33:07):
I'm like, okay, well you clearly got something going on
up there, to buddy. And then also when it comes
to like questions about yourself or caring about you, sometimes
they may show up to an excessive degree, like listen
to you talk and like talk to you about a
breakup on the phone for like four hours so they
can hold it over your head and.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Be your best friend.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Because this person will also not like that you have
other best friends. They'll need to be your best best
friend however long. They need you in their life for
their narcissistic supply, which is like attention, and they just
like basically take people like a washcloth and bring them
out till there's nothing left. And while they're doing that
to you, they need you little wash cloth to love
(33:47):
them more than anything or anyone. So they might just
like be really dramatic in the ways that they support
you and really inconsistent with that. So like sometimes they'll
be like, Okay, I can't handle like I can't deal
with this. I don't know why you're complaining to me
about your dad. And then other times they may be like,
oh my god, I can't believe you would do that
to you, like let's talk about it and like drive
over to your house in the middle of the night.
(34:09):
They'll also be entitled to your time in ways other
than just being late, but in the way that they
might be upset when you're hanging out with other people.
They will be upset when you won't drop things to
hang out with them or help them, like picking them
up from the airport, like you might have work or
have something else that you really wanted to do, and
they want to understand, and they'll be you never help me,
(34:30):
like and I took you to the airport, and you'll
be like, wait, you never took me to the airport,
and then they'll start saying something crazy. And there's this
whole concept within like narcissistic psychology about circular conversations, which
are the biggest red flag because when a normal, healthy
person normal meaning you know, I guess self aware and
(34:55):
trying to work on themselves, goes into an argument, the
goal is to come out with a solution. The goal
might be to be like, you really think you're right,
and you want that other person to see you're right,
but you're not trying to like win anything.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
You want them to.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
See your perspective. That's what you want, and you want
them to take the same approach as you. But being
right and winning are not the same thing. And it's
also like being right and winning at all costs, no
matter what you have to say, even if you have
to lie, even if you have to deny everything, even
if you have to gaslight somebody, like that's crazy. And
(35:32):
there's this quote online it's called the narcisist Prayer, which
is a little dramatic, but this is exactly how those
conversations go. That didn't happen, and if it did, it
wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a
big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if
I did, you deserved it. And it's exactly that in
(35:55):
circles and circles, and then they'll like hone in on
something really small you said. You might have like pronounced
a word and they'll be like, oh, yeah, what do
you mean by that, And then you'll get distracted and
try to like explain yourself, or then they'll take like
one little thing you said and they'll try to derail
the conversation onto something totally different. So like if you're like, hey,
I don't like that you stole money from me, and
(36:17):
I noticed the other day because my wallet wasn't where
I put it, and then when I found it, and
they're like, wait, where'd you put your wallet? And you're like, well,
I put it on the counter, and they're like, you sure,
you put it on the counter because you put your
stuff everywhere, and I feel like you are always losing
your things and you throw them all over the place,
so maybe you lost it and I don't know why
(36:38):
you can have to do that, And also like if
you could start cleaning up the dishes more like I'm
so tired of your stuff being everywhere, and I'm like,
you haven't swept in weeks.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
And then all of a sudden, you're like, wait, what
we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
You're stealing money from me, and then you go down
the rabbit hole, and then getting yourself out requires crazy
strict boundaries, like too crazy, as in like very actually
very sane, and redirecting and redirecting and redirecting as if
you're talking to a child and you're trying to teach
them how to ride a bike, you're trying to teach them.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
How to have an adult conversation.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Another thing, too, is like they'll be really harsh with you,
and like let's say they're like, oh, have you been
like working out? Because I feel like you're looking a
little you don't really look like yourself are you okay,
Are you eating all right?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Like are you good?
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Because I feel it and I feel like you haven't
been like wearing the same clothes recently, Like are you
insecure because you've gained weight? Because I think you still
look really good. And then you'll be like, wait, did
you say I gain weight? I don't think I gain weight.
And then they'll be like, oh my god, you're always
so fucking sensitive, and it's always you're so sensitive, like,
oh God forbid, somebody lets something emotionally perfect them right.
Another one is blatant lies like you saw them do it,
(37:45):
and they're like, no, I didn't do it. You're always
seeing things. You always come up with stuff that never
makes sense. And I'm just so tired of being accused
of things I didn't do, like that one time three
years ago that you did this and it was just
so upsetting and so traumatic for me, And I cannot
believe that I'm still putting up with your shit because
I hate like being your friend because I'm constantly put
(38:06):
through the ring air and you're like what wait, what wait?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
We were talking about something.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Totally different and it just goes off the rails. And
I think that the thing that I was talking to
about the girl I've been dealing with, like having something
on camera and here still trying to tonight. I was like,
oh my god, oh sweetie, you were not ready for me,
because I will call you out and I see you.
And narcissists hate they love being looked at.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
They hate being seen.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Another thing, too, is like hostility. If you came to
a friend who was like in a healthy space and
wasn't you know, didn't have all of these issues, and
you were like, heye, So some money went missing from
my wallet and I feel like you were in the
room with it when I wasn't there, and I like,
I hate having to say this, but like, did you
(38:58):
take it? Because you can just give it back and
we'll be fine and we'll get over it. And I
feel like if somebody came to me with that, I'd
be like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. I did
not do that. I understand how you could think I
would because I was home at that point, but I
didn't do it. And I'd love to try to help
you find out who did, because that sucks and I
(39:18):
don't know who would do that, But that's that's wild,
and you know, are you sure you don't misplaced it
somewhere like something like that, and like try to help
them problem solve, whereas a narcissist, you'd be like, hey,
you know, come to them the same way as soft,
you know, well spoken, not from anger, and they would
be like, here we fucking go again with you and
(39:39):
your crazy delusions. You just can't leave me alone. You
have it out for me and you want to ruin
my life. And I'm so tired of this smear campaign.
And you are such a narcisst you need everybody to
love you, and like you're just like, oh my god, wait,
what are you just saying all these things about yourself
to me? And the answer is yes. And to quote
my song if You've Forever, it's my favorite line. I
(40:02):
wrote it with my best friends Candy Carpenter and Nanny Wilgrin,
and the line is I'm just a mirror reflecting and
you're just an asshole projecting. And I love when y'all
seeing that really loud at shows. It makes me so happy.
So like hostility. And then if they do get caught
and you have undeniable proof and they decide that they wanted,
they're just too tired to gas light you. I guess
they will show like no remorse, and again it'll be
(40:23):
that didn't happen. If it did, it wasn't that bad.
If it was, that's not a big deal. And if
it is, it's not my fault. And if it was,
I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
And it's just that cycle over and over and over again.
So that is my thoughts on this scenario. I really
highly recommend, like, if any of this kind of struck
a nerve with you, I definitely recommend doing some more
(40:45):
research on your own and reading some stuff. I mean,
it's really difficult because all the advice out there for
how to deal with this is to just put up
with it and stop being friends with the person, which
you know doesn't sound doable, but it can be, and
your life will be better with boundaries, and you can
stay friends with people that are kind of toxic to you.
(41:07):
But you just have to do it with boundaries and
make sure that you protect yourself and you can still
be kind. Setting boundaries and telling somebody no does not
make you an asshole. It means you're looking out for yourself.
Saying no when someone asks you to do something does
not make you an asshole if it's like a favor
for them and you just don't have time or you
can't hang out or whatever, like there's time so you
(41:27):
can be an asshole. It's like, you know, let's say
you're I keep going back to people dying, but like
your friend's dad dies and it's like, hey, can you come.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
To my funeral, like the funeral with me? Like and
you being like, oh, well, sorry, I don't have a
social battery.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
It's like, okay, well nobody has about social battery for
a funeral, so get the fuck over it. But then
there's like, hey, like can you come shopping with me?
Like I really need to pick out a dress for
this date? And it's like, oh fuck, I really, like
I don't have the money to go. And then it's
like you're such a bad friend. You never want to
hang out with me. This is the only thing I
could do the episode on this week because I've been
so stressed by this situation that I'm trying you do
(42:00):
not say too much about woof Anyways, that has been
today's episode, and I hope you guys learn something from it. Again,
I highly recommend talking checking out Dr Rominey's podcast. It's
amazing and there's some really great advice on there. I
also liked the podcast Narcissist Apocalypse. That one has a
lot of great information about if you think you might
(42:21):
be dating one, but just educate yourself, protect yourself, set boundaries,
be kind, but you do not need to let anybody
take advantage of you. I'm gayly shore and this is
too much to say.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
All Go has some questions. Yes, so I'll ask you.
Now tell it out. You
Hey guys, I'm Kaylee Shore and this is too much
to say, but don't go has some questions, so I'm
as said, now tell it out.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
You, okay.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
On this week's episode, we are going to be discussing
a hot button topic about narcissists. But a lot of
the information out there, a lot of the podcasts out
there skew towards dating and marriage and occasionally parents, so
those types of narcissistic relationships. But this week I'm going
to focus on friends. I think that that's a really
important one, especially if you're the kind of person who
(00:40):
has like really really close friendships, deep friendships, you can
attract these kind of people. And I also want to
dispel some myths about narcissism. The word is grossly overused
and it's really important to understand it before you ever
call somebody that. And I would like to say a disclaimer.
I am not a doctor. I have a high school
degree and fifteen years of experience in the music industry,
(01:01):
but I do have a lifetime's worth of experience dealing
with these types of people. That being said, all of
the information that I'm using today comes from doctors. Like
I didn't do any sketchy sources double checked everything, but
specifically Alice Frye doctor Alice fry and doctor Romani de Vasulam,
(01:24):
and they're both amazing. They're experts in the field of
narcissism and they do a lot of research on that.
Doctor Romney has an amazing podcast. I highly recommend you
check it out, and listening to her podcast is part
of what inspired me to do this episode. So one
of the biggest miss about narcissism, according to doctor Romney,
is that it is only a personality disorder, where in fact,
(01:48):
it's actually a personality trait. It's something that you can
have the same way that you could be agreeable. And
that's also an important word because a lot of people,
if you ask them what the opposite of a narcissist is,
they'd say, like, oh, like someone who's humble. But the
opposite of narcissism is actually agreeableness, agreeability, whatever that word
(02:09):
would be. It's being agreeable, and narcissm goes so much
deeper than just like being vain and liking yourself. And
that's a huge, huge misconception. These aren't people who stare
in the mirror all day. They're actually people who can't
look in the mirror, so they just say everything to
other people that they would like to say to themselves,
(02:30):
but they're never going to do it. So everyone that
I'm talking about on this podcast, with my personal experience,
I'm not trying to diagnose anybody, but it is absolutely
glaring that they have some narcissistic tendencies. So doctor alis
Fry says that narcissism turns into a disorder when those
traits happen persistently and constantly and they affect the narcissist
(02:53):
daily life. They go from just like a quirk or
something that you can work on over time, something to
talk about therapy, something to like look inside yourself, to
something that is really difficult to treat. And there's some
really fascinating stuff out there by narcissists talking about narcissism.
So it's there's one called the self aware Narcissist, and
(03:14):
it's really fascinating because he lets you in on what
it's like inside his brain. And I thought that was
actually really hopeful because I also believed that if someone
is diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, there's no treating them.
A very close member of my family got diagnosed with that,
and those are also rare diagnosis to get because narcisis
typically hate therapy or they're really good aligning to their therapists.
(03:38):
Even doctor Romney, who's an expert, said on the Call
Her Daddy podcast that sometimes she'll take months with a
patient before realizing they're narcissist. And I think that that's
terrifying and tells you how good these people are at
manipulating people's opinions of them and just the world around them.
So the DSMV, which is like the Diagnostic Manual of
(04:04):
Mental disorders, that's like the I mean, it's like the
magnum opus of that. That's where what doctor's reference. It's
like the thing. They describe narcissistic personality disorder as an
overwhelming sense of self importance, an obsession with fantasies about
being incredibly successful, powerful, intelligent, attractive, or loved. A belief
(04:25):
that they are more special and unique than others. A
need for excessive admiration, a strong sense of entitlement, a
habit of constantly taking advantage of other people, a lack
of empathy towards others, an envy of others, and a
haughty attitude, and if you take each one of those
things and separate them, like you're likely to relate to
something I just read because humans are imperfect. I absolutely,
(04:49):
I mean, I also have an obsession with fantasies about
being incredibly successful, powerful, intelligent, attractive, and loved. I'd like
to be all of those things. I, however, will not
bulldoze somebody else to get that, and I won't lie
to somebody else to get that. And who doesn't want
excessive admiration, right, But there's a point where it just
becomes like icky, like I want to be admired by
(05:12):
the people closest to me. And I also found out
as I've gotten older, I'm like, Okay, I don't like attension.
I like validation. I want someone to tell me, hey,
you're really good at writing songs and you should keep
doing that. I don't want like a hundred people coming
at me and being like, oh, like like staring at
me on the street.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I don't want that.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
I just want to be told that I'm good at
the things that I love. But yeah, so you're probably
gonna see some of yourself in that list. But again,
doctor alis Fry says, it's one It just like affects
your daily life on a grand scale. And I do
think that like the more severe ones that come at
the end of the list, like habit of constantly taking
advantage of other people, lack of empathy, envy of others,
(05:53):
in a haughty attitude, those ones are that like, we
shouldn't relate to, you know, and the taking advantage of
thing is big, and we're really we're going to talk
a lot about that. Narcissm is actually rooted in the
opposite of high esteem of oneself. So it's actually not
about being vain as much as it is about being
(06:14):
so insecure. So these aren't just people who look in
the mirror all the time. They're people who can't look
at themselves in the mirror and just say everything to
everybody else, and that is a really hard thing to
be around. Studies show that between three and six percent
of people have narcissis to personality disorder, So that's not
(06:35):
even accounting for the people who have just like narcissistic tendencies,
but it says between three and six percent. However, there's
not a lot of information on this because narcists are
unlikely to identify as narcissists. They're unlikely to identify as
anything other than amazing, but chances are you've met one.
We all meet hundreds of people in our lives, and
(06:57):
it would make sense that a handful of those people
you meet would have narcissis personality disorder. So if you're
like I feel like I've come across quite a few
people with these tendencies. But I do also think that
agreeable people or people who just give a lot tend
to attract those kind of, you know, self centered people
who want to take advantage of them. And I have
(07:19):
gotten really good at setting boundaries as I've gotten older,
and I feel like kind of ungaslightable and it feels
so good. I've been working on this in therapy. But
this has not always been like that. I have been
so gullible, just given so much of myself to people
who could not give less of a fuck about me,
and I have been there. I've been there with men,
family members, never dated a narcisstic girl, but I have
(07:44):
been really good friends with one, so that's difficult. There's
actually some studies as well that show that people have
narcissistic personality disorder have less gray matter in their brain
in the area that's related to empathy, and that's according
to the Mayo Clinic. And then as far as where
it comes from, you could have narcissistic parents and both
(08:05):
have some sort of like genetic component to that, but
also learn from modeling yourself after them. You also can
have just toxic parents in a different way. People who
are narcissists are very likely to come from homes where
they either had an insane amount of pressure on them
or an insane amount of excusing their behavior and letting
(08:26):
them get away with anything. So like a parent who
would be like, you're such a huge disappointment, you got
to be on your test, or the kid goes and
like lights some shit on fire and they're like, oh,
that's just how they are, Like that's the kind of
people we're talking about. It is one of the hardest
to treat conditions for the reason that I said earlier,
like narcissists don't go to therapy, they don't seek help.
(08:48):
But it is amazing to see that there are people
like the guy who runs the Self Aware a Narcissist
podcast who are seeking help and working on themselves, and
that makes me feel so much better talking about this
topic because the whole like throw the whole person away
thing really stresses me out. But it's also like, you
do have to cut off the narcissist in your life,
(09:08):
but there is room for improvement and self awareness, and
I just think that that's very, very hopeful and helpful.
We're gonna take a quick break and then we will
be back and I'm going to talk about some of
my personal experiences with this. So we're gonna spill some tea.
I will see you guys in a bit. Okay, So
(09:33):
I'm gonna kind of do this part backwards, and I'm
going to tell you some stories about my experiences with
people that I consider to be very narcissistic, and then
I'm going to tell you what to look for, and
then you'll be able to kind of see the whole
picture come together from the story and all the red
flags that I missed that you don't have to because
you can research this earlier in your life than I did. Okay,
(09:56):
So I think that my ex boyfriend had some really
narcisstic quality. I don't know if he was like, I
don't want to say smart, but I don't know if
he was like conniving enough he just had really bad
rage issues. And it's the guy that my song e
Fie Forever is about. And there was some really scary
(10:17):
moments in our relationship. The first one that I can
really remember that wasn't just like little stuff like the
first well, the first little thing that happened, I guess
is maybe not that little, but like he lied to
me about how many people he'd slept with, and that
is one thing, but he had actually slept with somebody
after we started sleeping together and we weren't officially exclusive,
(10:41):
but I had asked him if he was sleeping with
anybody else because I was, you know, really paranoid about STDs,
which is a very okay thing to be paranoid about.
And he said, no, I haven't and I'm not and
I was like okay. And then when I we got
to the point in our relationship like a couple months later,
I was like, oh, how many people have you slept with?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Told me how many?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
And like you know who they were, because it wasn't
that many at that point and was life things have changed.
But but then a couple months later I found out
he did a nude shoot with this girl he hooked
up with before and I was like, hey, can you please, like,
(11:22):
you know, if you're gonna do a nude shoot with her?
Because I'm a cool girlfriend. I was like, could you
just like have somebody else there, like a makeup artist
or whatever. And he was like, oh, yeah, I guess so,
and I was like, yeah, that's really important to me,
and like if she so basically like, if you're alone,
could she keep her clothes on? If she won't keep
her clothes on, can you not be alone? And I
think that's a really fair compromise. And he told me
(11:45):
he did that, and I was like, okay, So we
lived together at this point, and he is showing me
some pictures on his laptop of the shoot that he
did with this girl, and I was like trying to
be supportive, and then I like saw something kind of sketchy,
like she she like was wearing like all of a sudden,
she's wearing like the Risky Business Tom Cruise, like button
down white shirt and like no pants, and I was like, hmmm,
(12:08):
where did her pants go? And then I just reached
over and I pressed the forward arrow on his laptop
keyboard like really really fast, and immediately found all these
like nudes he'd taken of her, and I was just
so fucking pissed. So I like, grab my person and
I leave. I go to a friend's house and I
come back to my house later to get some more
(12:28):
stuff because I was.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Not planning on coming back anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
And I was like, you know what, fuck it, I'm
gonna look at his laptop because I don't trust him,
and I feel like, you know, I acknowledged that this
is wrong, but I'm going to do it, and I'm
going to own that I'm wrong in this scenario. And
because I think, I'm gonna find something out. And I
found out that he had slept with our roommate's best friend,
who was over the house all the time, like maybe
(12:54):
a week or two before we started officially dating. And
I just never liked this girl. I always thought she
was really weird to me, and it turns out she
was like in love with my boyfriend, and that was
a whole thing. And then I got back together with
him because I'm a fucking idiot, but that was like,
that is a great microcosm of the issues in our relationship.
(13:14):
And then as time went on, he kind of got
you know, more controlling and more jealous of stuff with
my career. But then it all came to a head.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
One night.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
He was really drunk at a party that I was
at and it was like a work party and I
was performing and really needed to be like on my
game because there was some investors there and there's an
open bar and it was really fun. But he drank
too much and I wasn't drinking at all because I
was trying to network and I was like driving everybody,
and I was like, I'm gonna be responsible, and he
(13:46):
had just like twelve too many Gen and Tonics. That's
an exaggeration, Okay, when I'm talking about people, I need
to not exaggerate. I he had like probably like eight
too many Gen and Tonics. And on the riot, he
started talking really loudly while somebody else was performing, and
I like leaned over and then like the nicest twenty
(14:07):
two year old Kaylee Way, I like was like, hey,
like I think you might be louder than you realize
you are, and like this girl's playing like a really
like kind of quiet song, like maybe you could like
bring it down a little bit, and his face just drops,
like all the blood drained out of his body and
he was like, okay, we need to go, and I
was like, well, I don't really want to go, and
he's like, no, we need to go, and he goes
outside and I was like okay, fine, So I follow
(14:27):
him out and everybody leaves, and then when him and
I are in the car alone after we like leave
our friends, he starts crying and screaming and saying that
I embarrassed him. And then all of a sudden, he's
like banging his fists on my dashboard and then like
reaching over and like hitting my steering wheel with his fist,
(14:49):
like trying to like run us off the road. And
I was like, what the fuck? And he's just like
crying and his voice is so deep and like loud,
and so it's really upsetting when he would yell because
it just always sounded scary than it was, but it
was very scary.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
In that moment.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
And so that was like the first time there was
violence of any sort involved. And I wouldn't really even
have called that violence, but I will now because it
was like a I mean, he.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Tried to run the car off the road.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I feel like that's look at me and gaslighting myself
for him. He doesn't even have to do it anymore anyways.
So six months later was when the incident that I
talked about in Effie Forever happened where he cheated on me.
I took a week because my therapist told me to
to like break, like take a.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Breather, but we weren't on a break at all.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I wouldn't stay at a friend's house, but I was like,
I just need some like space from this to think
about it. If I get back together with you, like
we're getting married, and I'm we're never breaking up if
we make it through this, So I'm trying to be
responsible and he just like at first was like okay, cool,
that's like really mature, that makes sense. And then he
starts like losing his mind. And my best friend at
the time invited us both to our birthday party, and
(16:05):
like I am like, why would you invite this guy
that your fucking best friends having issues with to your
birthday party? So we have to hang out, and once again,
I was not drinking because I was like really emotional
and didn't want to be around him, and I was
like trying to be there for my friend because like birthdays.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Are very important, and.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
He like gets really drunk at this party and pulls
me into another room and is like, I want to
talk to you, like I want to get back together.
And I was like, dude, we have couples therapy scheduled
tomorrow morning at eight am, and like we're going to
talk about this with somebody there, and we're going to
do this the right way, Like I'm not talking to
you about this when you're wasted and I'm sober and
we're tired. And he was like okay, fine, And then
(16:48):
we get in the uber with like three of our
friends to go back to our apartment because I was
going to get some like more stuff and then go
back to my friends, who were two of the girls
in the car with us, and the Uber driver's like,
how's your night going.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
And he's like it's going awful.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Thanks for asking, And I was like, okay, get back
to the apartment. And I'm like thinking, I'm I'm safe.
I thought he was just gonna be kind of moody
because there's so many people around, like two of our
friends around the balcony, one was in the living room,
I'm in the bathroom, and I'm kind of like having
a moment, like a little panic attack, just giving to myself.
I was getting my skincare stuff and then I just
sat up against the bathtub and I was just like, I.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Just need to breathe for a second.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
That was a lot to have to be around him
for that long. And then he comes into the bathroom
like bangs on the door, opens it up, and I
don't open it up. He just walks in and he
like sits in front of me. He's like, I need
to know if you're breaking up with me, and I
was like, well, the point is like I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I'm not gonna say that because we're talking about it
in therapy and like I want to do this the
right way. And he was like, I need you to
tell me, and then he just starts repeating himself like
I need you tell me, I need you tell me.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You got to tell me. I need you to tell me.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And that's like kind of freaky when someone talks to
you like that. And then his voice gets louder and louder,
and he starts he grabs me by the shoulders and
he shakes me and slams me up against the bathtom
and he's like you need to tell me, but.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Like yelling it so loud so deep, like.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Sounds like the fucking gates of Hell opened up, and
I just like went like limp and like could not
believe what was happening.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
And then he was like, are you breaking up with me?
And I was like.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yes, I am, I am. And then he runs out
into the living room, which is like right outside the bathroom,
and just starts screaming like no at the top of
his lungs like held the note for so long it
was like operatic, both in drama and in lung capabilities,
(18:42):
and I was like, God, somebody's gonna call the cops.
And our friends like heard sash saw everything happen, like
they came running as soon as they heard the slamming
because it was very parent that, like, you know, somebody
was being you know, that was happening. So my friend
comes in and sits on the floor with me, and
then he runs out to the parking garage stands on
the edge of the park garage and then somebody comes
and gets me and I was like okay, and I
(19:03):
like they were like, you need to talk him down
off the parking garage because he says he's gonna kill himself.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
And I was like okay.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
And trying to be sensitive, and I like was still
processing the fact that he just like put his hands
on me for the first time in our relationship. And
he's on the edge of the parking garage and he
looks at me. He's like, if I jump, you're gonna
be to blame and it'll be your fault. And I
was like, oh god, well I And I don't even
remember what I said to him, because I think I
just like blacked out from trauma at that point. But
(19:32):
I know I wasn't mean. I know, I didn't yell
or hit back. I just was like weirdly calm because
I was so traumatized in that moment. And so that
whole night was crazy. But then what's crazier is just
how he acted after the breakup and like talks so
much shit about me and you know, fucked my friends
and obviously we're not my friends and just did all
(19:55):
this stuff. And then I know now because I've become
friends with some of his other ex girlfriends, that he
he got even like worse after we broke up, which
is horrible. But that really points to like narcissistic rage
and that kind of like projection, like he cheated on me.
He was angry with himself, but he had to get
(20:15):
angry at me because he wished he could beat himself
up instead, but would never get to the point where
he could acknowledge that. So that was like a big one.
But as far as like other types of narcissus, like
there's some really conniving ones out there. So there's this
strategy that narcisst will do called smear campaigns, And everybody
(20:37):
knows what a smear campaign is, but in the topic
of narcissm, it's specific, and it's when somebody tries to
slowly disassemble your support system and take all these like
safety nets away from you and make everybody hate you.
And there's like I've seen stuff like in high school
where like somebody's mad at a girl because she's like
slept with her boyfriend and every she wants all the
(20:59):
girls to hate that or because you don't want her
to have friends. Like that's that's complicated, that's drama. But
then there's like this smear campaign and basically my friends
starts dating this guy who was my really good friend,
and I don't know what I did. I think I
told I think I told them not to move in
together after knowing each other for five weeks.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
And I will stand by that.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
And I was also like going through a depressive episode
of like bipolar, which I normally just keep to myself.
I take my medicine, I read, I do yoga, I
stay out of bars, and I don't really have a
social battery. So I was doing all the right stuff
that I've learned how to do in therapy, because I've
done a lot of therapy and I know what works
for myself, right, Like we're supposed to trust ourselves when
it comes to self care. But apparently I wasn't like
(21:47):
around enough and they thought I was. I was being
a bad friend, and I was like, well, I'm kind
of depressed and Sam and I are arguing a lot,
and then it just like made no sense. Narcisis don't
make any sense if you ever like really fucking fused
by something like start thinking like this and see if
it adds up.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
But even when I try to, anytime.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I try to tell the story, it just sounds crazy.
But basically, like this guy ends up like slowly dismantling
my life from my adult best friend to my elementary
school best friend, middle school best friend who moved to Nashville,
to like members of Sam's family, to Sam's friends, and
(22:29):
then to Sam himself, and was like trying to get
him to break up with me. And I do not
think it's because this guy had a crush on me.
That would be way too easily explainable. It was just
like some weird thing. And I think it might be
because I recognized he was love bombing my friend and
I'd now seen him go through two breakups that looked
strikingly similar to each other and was kind of like
(22:49):
starting to be like, hmm, this guy's being a little weird.
And Narses really hate being fucking seen. They really hate
being seen. And you know what they love to do.
They love to call you a narcissist. And that's why
we can't throw around the word. I don't think it's
fair to do that, like to someone's face and whatever.
Like you have to think long and hard before you,
you know, come to terms with somebody being narcissistic or
(23:13):
having a personality disorder, and that is something only a
doctor can do. But this shit was like undeniable, and
the lies and the gaslighting, and I have these like
crazy texts from him like I've never gotten in this
long of a text argument, like with a guy that
I wasn't dating. I was like, what the hell, Like,
we don't what like I thought that we only felt
(23:35):
like this with like boyfriends and shit, and he just
was like going off.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
He sent me one of those.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Texts that was so long you had to click on it,
and I was like, God, there's so few people on
the planet I care enough to type that long for
my thumbs would hurt. What are you even doing? And
he said this crazy thing about because I'd lost all
my friends after my breakup with my ex boyfriend because
(24:00):
I don't know, he manipulated people, like got people on
his side whatever.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
And he's like knew that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I was really really like insecure about that and said
something like He's like, you didn't want our whole friend
group to split up like yours did after your breakup.
But that's the track you're putting us on. Deal with
your shit, and I'll keep my distance. I hope you
figure it out. And I was like, I did not
put you on any track. I intentionally kept you off
of it. You all chose to involve yourself as something
you knew you didn't have the full context for and
(24:30):
I was like, appreciate the space I needed, And that's
the last thing we ever said. But like, that's such
a fucking mean thing to say, to be like, everybody's
gonna leave you, just like they did last time. So
when somebody says something like that, that's a huge red flag. Recently,
I've been dealing with somebody who reminds me way too
much of those two people.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
And this person is a woman, and I like hate using.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
My podcast to talk shit about people, but this has
just been so fucking crazy. And this person like stole
from me and I have them like doing something crazy
on camera and they lied about all of it and
it just gasol at me and to oblivion and it's
just been insane and I forgot that like adults behaved
(25:20):
like this, and it's just so like sinister, and I
have proof for all of it. And it's like she
can literally look at a camera and be like, no,
you're hearing that wrong, Like no, I'm not, and she's like, yes,
you are, like just thinking that she can just gaslight
like that. Well, I'm like, girly, uh huh. I've been
to too much therapy for this. And also you're gonna
(25:43):
have to get better at at lying because I can
see right through you, and I don't accuse people of
things unless I have fucking receipts, And with the stealing.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
It was incredibly obvious.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Like I don't wanna tell specifics because then it'll be
you know, I'm just trying to be ethical but also
share my story here. But it's just really frightening to
see how somebody can manipulate you and people around them
and then turn on this like poor me persona and
try to get sympathy and they like use your empathy
(26:15):
against you, and that's just crazy. So without going too
far into that situation, we're going to take a break,
and when we come back, I'm going to give you
some questions to ask yourself about if you might be
friends with an narcist, And all of these questions will
apply to any other relationship you might have with one sibling,
parent dating, and there's lots of resources for that, and
maybe I'll do a follow up episode on like a
(26:37):
more specific relationship, but this one will focus mostly on like.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Friends, and we'll be right back to talk more about that.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
So here's some questions to ask yourself about if you
might be friends with an narcist. This all according to
Choosingthapy dot com. The article is written by two doctors.
You can check it out yourself. But these are kind
of paraphrased into examples that I've seen myself, but I
highly recommend reading the original article. Uh So, somebody, these
(27:14):
all have to be severe. These examples can't just be
like your friend fished for a compliment one time and
was like, are you sure my hair doesn't look stupid
or like whatever. It's like compulsive and endless and never
stops and applies to every situation like this has to
be so fucking severe, So keep that in mind because
(27:34):
sometimes people are just shitty. Sometimes people are just toxic.
They're not always an narcissist. But after you hear these questions,
if you answer hell yes to more than like four
or five, do some listen to some other podcasts of
like actual doctors talking. So a friend who's a narcist
will put their needs first, and that means like financially,
(27:57):
like they might think that they shouldn't have to pay
for dinner because you were the one who invited them
to dinner even though you said nothing about paying. They
will you know, never offer gas money. They'll want you
to drive them everywhere so that they don't have to
spend money on that. They'll just assume things are being
taken care of. Like if you went and bought like
(28:20):
let's say you guys were going to hang out and
you went and bought like a bottle of wine or whatever,
they would never a bring a bottle of wine the
next time, and they would never like offer you any
money for that or it just it's a one way
friendship financially, and then also just somebody who like takes
advantage of your time and they put their needs first
in that way, they run late. They have no apology
(28:42):
or explanation. They don't understand why you're mad that they're late.
They could be an hour late, and you're like, dude,
I have like things to do, like what are you doing?
And they're like, why are you so mad at me?
Like you're so controlling. I have things going on too,
Like why are you acting so entitled to my time?
And they're like and you're like, wait, why are you
acting so entitled to my time? I just sat here
for an hour? What are you talking about? And like
(29:05):
they have a lot of rules that only apply to them.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I e.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Like, if you were ever late, they'd kill you, not literally,
but then the fishing for compliments thing is very very big.
It's like dramatic insecurity, so they might not even like
narcisism is an insecurity disorder, but this is like kind
of like a put on humility and insecurity thing, very
(29:34):
like over the top. Like let's say your friend and
it's something they know the answer to. Let's say your
friend is just got her hair done and it looks
really good and spent a lot of money on it,
and it like looks great objectively, everyone would say it
looks great, and you haven't said anything to her about
her new hair yet because you're just so busy or
you didn't notice or whatever. And she comes up and
(29:56):
she's like, do you think my hair looks ugly? I
think it looks so bad. I feel like everybody's going
to make fun of me, Like it looks so bad, right,
And you're like, no, you look like Jennifer Aniston.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
And they're like, are you sure I don't look ugly?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I just feel like I.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Look ugly in it, And then they'll like bring it
up like ten more times, and you can tell when
that's somebody who's like, hey, do you think my hair
looks bad? I don't know how I feel about it,
versus like something that clearly looks amazing, and they just
want to hear more about how it looks amazing.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
It being amazing is not enough. They must hear about
it as well.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Superficial convos. If you have superficial conversations with your friend
that never go deeper. Let's say you need something like
support because family member dies, they're not going to know
what to say, so they'll just say something like stock
that's like.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Oh, they're in a better place.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Change the subjects start talking about them not have any understanding.
And this friend of mine that I've been dealing with,
like one of our friends did lose somebody, and I
was saying something to the narcissistic friend and I was like, yeah,
I feel like we should. Probably she wanted me to
ask the other girl for something, and I was like, yeah,
(31:11):
I don't really want to do that, Like she's going
through a lot, and I just feel like we should
just take care of this for her because she has
all that going on. And this girl was like, what
does she have going on, I'm like, oh my god,
somebody died last week. What the fuck are you talking about?
And she was like, oh, yeah, I guess so. And
then that same exact conversation happened like again two weeks later,
and I was like, girl, oh my god, like tell
(31:32):
me you have no empathy without telling me you have
no empathy. But another superficial thing is like they'll they'll
ask you no questions about yourself.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
They'll talk about themselves.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
They'll talk about things like looks and boys or girls
or just like very very superficial, superficial things that make
them seem great. They'll brag about themselves a lot. And
there's a difference between a friend like sharing something they're
excited about and a friend who's like trying to seem superior.
And you should trust your.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Judgment on that.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
That friend also may only ask questions about you when
they're going to use them against you. So they also
will mind for information to find things that they can
either throw back in your face or say about you.
So let's say, you know, for me, I had told
that guy friend. I was like, hey, like I'm going
through or I guess I told I told him, But
(32:24):
before that, I told his girlfriend. I was like, I'm
going through a bipolar episode and I'm really not doing great.
I just need to kind of take two weeks and
just ride it out, let it happen, and keep to myself,
and then I'll come out on the other side and
I'll be great. And she told him about it whatever,
and then all of a sudden, two weeks later, he's like, well,
you're mentally unwell and you just haven't been doing well lately,
and like everybody can tell. And I was like, well, yeah,
(32:46):
because I told everybody. And he's like yeah, but you're
making it other people's problem and you're taking it out
on other people. I'm like, how can I take it
out on everybody if I'm not talking to them, if
I'm just like in my room reading, Like that is
the healthiest depression activity one could do that, and you know,
just sleeping, but like just immediately through the back in
my face and was like, well, you're a bipolar and
(33:07):
I'm like, okay, well you clearly got something going on
up there, to buddy. And then also when it comes
to like questions about yourself or caring about you, sometimes
they may show up to an excessive degree, like listen
to you talk and like talk to you about a
breakup on the phone for like four hours so they
can hold it over your head and.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Be your best friend.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Because this person will also not like that you have
other best friends. They'll need to be your best best
friend however long. They need you in their life for
their narcissistic supply, which is like attention, and they just
like basically take people like a washcloth and bring them
out till there's nothing left. And while they're doing that
to you, they need you little wash cloth to love
(33:47):
them more than anything or anyone. So they might just
like be really dramatic in the ways that they support
you and really inconsistent with that. So like sometimes they'll
be like, Okay, I can't handle like I can't deal
with this. I don't know why you're complaining to me
about your dad. And then other times they may be like,
oh my god, I can't believe you would do that
to you, like let's talk about it and like drive
over to your house in the middle of the night.
(34:09):
They'll also be entitled to your time in ways other
than just being late, but in the way that they
might be upset when you're hanging out with other people.
They will be upset when you won't drop things to
hang out with them or help them, like picking them
up from the airport, like you might have work or
have something else that you really wanted to do, and
they want to understand, and they'll be you never help me,
(34:30):
like and I took you to the airport, and you'll
be like, wait, you never took me to the airport,
and then they'll start saying something crazy. And there's this
whole concept within like narcissistic psychology about circular conversations, which
are the biggest red flag because when a normal, healthy
person normal meaning you know, I guess self aware and
(34:55):
trying to work on themselves, goes into an argument, the
goal is to come out with a solution. The goal
might be to be like, you really think you're right,
and you want that other person to see you're right,
but you're not trying to like win anything.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
You want them to.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
See your perspective. That's what you want, and you want
them to take the same approach as you. But being
right and winning are not the same thing. And it's
also like being right and winning at all costs, no
matter what you have to say, even if you have
to lie, even if you have to deny everything, even
if you have to gaslight somebody, like that's crazy. And
(35:32):
there's this quote online it's called the narcisist Prayer, which
is a little dramatic, but this is exactly how those
conversations go. That didn't happen, and if it did, it
wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a
big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if
I did, you deserved it. And it's exactly that in
(35:55):
circles and circles, and then they'll like hone in on
something really small you said. You might have like pronounced
a word and they'll be like, oh, yeah, what do
you mean by that, And then you'll get distracted and
try to like explain yourself, or then they'll take like
one little thing you said and they'll try to derail
the conversation onto something totally different. So like if you're like, hey,
I don't like that you stole money from me, and
(36:17):
I noticed the other day because my wallet wasn't where
I put it, and then when I found it, and
they're like, wait, where'd you put your wallet? And you're like, well,
I put it on the counter, and they're like, you sure,
you put it on the counter because you put your
stuff everywhere, and I feel like you are always losing
your things and you throw them all over the place,
so maybe you lost it and I don't know why
(36:38):
you can have to do that, And also like if
you could start cleaning up the dishes more like I'm
so tired of your stuff being everywhere, and I'm like,
you haven't swept in weeks.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
And then all of a sudden, you're like, wait, what
we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
You're stealing money from me, and then you go down
the rabbit hole, and then getting yourself out requires crazy
strict boundaries, like too crazy, as in like very actually
very sane, and redirecting and redirecting and redirecting as if
you're talking to a child and you're trying to teach
them how to ride a bike, you're trying to teach them.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
How to have an adult conversation.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Another thing, too, is like they'll be really harsh with you,
and like let's say they're like, oh, have you been
like working out? Because I feel like you're looking a
little you don't really look like yourself are you okay,
Are you eating all right?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Like are you good?
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Because I feel it and I feel like you haven't
been like wearing the same clothes recently, Like are you
insecure because you've gained weight? Because I think you still
look really good. And then you'll be like, wait, did
you say I gain weight? I don't think I gain weight.
And then they'll be like, oh my god, you're always
so fucking sensitive, and it's always you're so sensitive, like,
oh God forbid, somebody lets something emotionally perfect them right.
Another one is blatant lies like you saw them do it,
(37:45):
and they're like, no, I didn't do it. You're always
seeing things. You always come up with stuff that never
makes sense. And I'm just so tired of being accused
of things I didn't do, like that one time three
years ago that you did this and it was just
so upsetting and so traumatic for me, And I cannot
believe that I'm still putting up with your shit because
I hate like being your friend because I'm constantly put
(38:06):
through the ring air and you're like what wait, what wait?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
We were talking about something.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Totally different and it just goes off the rails. And
I think that the thing that I was talking to
about the girl I've been dealing with, like having something
on camera and here still trying to tonight. I was like,
oh my god, oh sweetie, you were not ready for me,
because I will call you out and I see you.
And narcissists hate they love being looked at.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
They hate being seen.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Another thing, too, is like hostility. If you came to
a friend who was like in a healthy space and
wasn't you know, didn't have all of these issues, and
you were like, heye, So some money went missing from
my wallet and I feel like you were in the
room with it when I wasn't there, and I like,
I hate having to say this, but like, did you
(38:58):
take it? Because you can just give it back and
we'll be fine and we'll get over it. And I
feel like if somebody came to me with that, I'd
be like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. I did
not do that. I understand how you could think I
would because I was home at that point, but I
didn't do it. And I'd love to try to help
you find out who did, because that sucks and I
(39:18):
don't know who would do that, But that's that's wild,
and you know, are you sure you don't misplaced it
somewhere like something like that, and like try to help
them problem solve, whereas a narcissist, you'd be like, hey,
you know, come to them the same way as soft,
you know, well spoken, not from anger, and they would
be like, here we fucking go again with you and
(39:39):
your crazy delusions. You just can't leave me alone. You
have it out for me and you want to ruin
my life. And I'm so tired of this smear campaign.
And you are such a narcisst you need everybody to
love you, and like you're just like, oh my god, wait,
what are you just saying all these things about yourself
to me? And the answer is yes. And to quote
my song if You've Forever, it's my favorite line. I
(40:02):
wrote it with my best friends Candy Carpenter and Nanny Wilgrin,
and the line is I'm just a mirror reflecting and
you're just an asshole projecting. And I love when y'all
seeing that really loud at shows. It makes me so happy.
So like hostility. And then if they do get caught
and you have undeniable proof and they decide that they wanted,
they're just too tired to gas light you. I guess
they will show like no remorse, and again it'll be
(40:23):
that didn't happen. If it did, it wasn't that bad.
If it was, that's not a big deal. And if
it is, it's not my fault. And if it was,
I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
And it's just that cycle over and over and over again.
So that is my thoughts on this scenario. I really
highly recommend, like, if any of this kind of struck
a nerve with you, I definitely recommend doing some more
(40:45):
research on your own and reading some stuff. I mean,
it's really difficult because all the advice out there for
how to deal with this is to just put up
with it and stop being friends with the person, which
you know doesn't sound doable, but it can be, and
your life will be better with boundaries, and you can
stay friends with people that are kind of toxic to you.
(41:07):
But you just have to do it with boundaries and
make sure that you protect yourself and you can still
be kind. Setting boundaries and telling somebody no does not
make you an asshole. It means you're looking out for yourself.
Saying no when someone asks you to do something does
not make you an asshole if it's like a favor
for them and you just don't have time or you
can't hang out or whatever, like there's time so you
(41:27):
can be an asshole. It's like, you know, let's say
you're I keep going back to people dying, but like
your friend's dad dies and it's like, hey, can you come.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
To my funeral, like the funeral with me? Like and
you being like, oh, well, sorry, I don't have a
social battery.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
It's like, okay, well nobody has about social battery for
a funeral, so get the fuck over it. But then
there's like, hey, like can you come shopping with me?
Like I really need to pick out a dress for
this date? And it's like, oh fuck, I really, like
I don't have the money to go. And then it's
like you're such a bad friend. You never want to
hang out with me. This is the only thing I
could do the episode on this week because I've been
so stressed by this situation that I'm trying you do
(42:00):
not say too much about woof Anyways, that has been
today's episode, and I hope you guys learn something from it. Again,
I highly recommend talking checking out Dr Rominey's podcast. It's
amazing and there's some really great advice on there. I
also liked the podcast Narcissist Apocalypse. That one has a
lot of great information about if you think you might
(42:21):
be dating one, but just educate yourself, protect yourself, set boundaries,
be kind, but you do not need to let anybody
take advantage of you. I'm gayly shore and this is
too much to say.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
All Go has some questions. Yes, so I'll ask you.
Now tell it out. You
Host
Kalie Shorr
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