May 24, 2023 • 34 mins
Tudor Dixon gives her honest and uncensored thoughts on the issue of abortion. What do Republicans keep getting wrong? Tudor says abortion is about a battle to change hearts not just legislation. Was Roe v. Wade just a band-aid? The Tudor Dixon Podcast is part of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Monday, Wednesday, & Friday. For more information visit TudorDixonPodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, this is Buck Sexton and you're listening to the
Tutor Dixon Podcast, part of the Clay Travers and Buck
Sexton podcast Network. Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I
am Tutor Dixon, and I'm glad you're joining me today.
I have an interesting episode for you today because today
in this podcast, we're actually going to go through a
(00:21):
pretty heavy topic that I think I know more about
than most people that have been in the political world
on the Republican side, I would say because I had
kind of a unique campaign, and that is because I
am one of the candidates that ran for office while
(00:42):
we were going through roeby Wade getting overturned. And so
today we'll be talking about abortion. Many of you probably
know that when people look back at the gubernatorial race
in Michigan, a lot of folks would say that abortion
was the deciding factor. And I think that to almost
certain extent that is the case. That's what pushed people
(01:05):
to the Democrat side. But I kind of want to
unpack exactly what happened in the movement and what I
see the answer is for Republicans going forward on the
discussion of abortion, because we learned a lot here in Michigan,
and I think that if you learn that much, you
certainly should share it. So let me go through a
little bit about how what it was like on my
(01:27):
side of the race, because in the primary, we're going
through and we're discussing where we stand on certain issues.
And of course you've all heard that I'm pro life,
and I have my reasons for that. But what you
might not know about me as a pro life person
is that I wasn't always a pro life person. I
(01:48):
grew up in a very liberal town, and I was
at a very liberal high school, and I like to
explain to people who don't understand folks on the pro
choice side. I like to explain what it was like
to grow up in the way that I grew up,
and that is that in my high school, we learned
about the woman's right to vote right next to the
(02:09):
woman's right to choose, and so people were taught, I mean,
as young women, we were taught like you're a part
of this club. These people worked really hard to make
it legal for you to vote, and make it legal
for you to make this choice about your health care.
It wasn't about killing a baby or getting rid of
a baby. It was about your healthcare. And it's a
(02:30):
very compelling case when you're a young woman and really
they're not explaining to you any of the details of that,
and there's a mindset of this is not really a
child until you give birth to the baby. And so
I really was manipulated by that for many years and
believed in that until I had my own miscarriage. I
(02:51):
would say not even you know, even going through my
first birth, I guess I hadn't really thought much about
that movement because it hadn't been something that had been
a part of my life. You know, I was busy working.
And I think this is something other people need to
recognize too. Not everybody as an activist on one side
or the other. Most people are just living their lives
and so they're getting fed information from campaigns and that's
(03:16):
very powerful. So for me, when I was thirty three,
I lost a baby. At eighteen weeks my baby, I
went in for my appointment and the doctor said the
baby's heartbeat wasn't beating anymore, and so she looked at
me and she said, we can go in right now
and we can do the surgery, and you know, we'll
just cut the baby out. But you won't. I mean,
(03:38):
it would really be cutting the baby up. You know,
you won't see the baby. It'll just be a surgical procedure.
You'll be in and out in a few hours. Or
you can go through labor, you can hold the baby,
we can see what happened to the baby. And you know,
at that time, I couldn't. I just found out that
I lost the baby, and I couldn't stand the thought
of cutting the baby up, and so I went into
(03:59):
the hospital. When I was in the hospital for three
days and went through labor, and actually went through labor,
held the baby, ended up having a complication after holding
the baby and going into surgery, and those are scary times.
But I think that holding a baby at eighteen weeks
was really it really tugged on my heart in a
(04:22):
new and different way than I had ever seen before.
But I'm also in the position of because of that,
because of not having understood that beforehand, I see how
the culture of society has changed the ideas of what
a pregnancy is and how people feel that this right
(04:44):
to choose is so important. So this was a really
hard thing for me during the campaign, because when you
talk about this in a campaign, you have all these
groups come to you, and they're like, we want you
to hear all of these sides, really the pro life sides.
So I had a lot of the pro life groups
come to me, and I heard so many incredible stories
(05:05):
and they're really hard stories to not carry along with
you the rest of your life. Of families that had
made the choice to keep their baby or to put
their baby up for adoption, and how this had changed
their whole world, and it was it helped them, it
was a good thing for them. You will hear all
of these positive stories. I was obviously on the conservative side,
(05:27):
so those are the stories that I'm hearing, and they
asked me to share those stories. And I was a
first time candidate, and I'm also again one of the
candidates that is running for the first time. And I
say this in all sincerity with no protection from Roe
v Wade. And I say no protection because I think
that every conservative running before twenty twenty two could say
(05:50):
they were pro life and not have the consequence of
Roe v. Wade being overturned. And that is just the
hard and brutal truth. And I will get a lot
of criticism for them, but people need to understand that
we for the first time realized that that was a
small battle in a very long war. And I want
you to think about this from the standpoint of fifty years.
(06:13):
For fifty years, women have said this is a right.
And then I think that a lot of people in
the Life movement felt that this was winning the war.
Going in there in Roe v. Wade getting overturned, that
was winning the war. It was over. There was going
to be no more abortion. But it was just a
tiny battle in the ongoing war for life. And the
(06:35):
war is not a war that should be happening on
just the political side. This is something that we have
lost the hearts of the people on I know I
was one of them. I totally get it, and I
think that there are so many women out there who go, yeah,
that's how I feel too. I think that because I
(06:57):
traveled around the entire state of Michigan and I had
strong Christian women come to me and say, you cannot
have this stance on abortion. That was really tough because
every time I would say something on the radio or
talk on a television interview and it wasn't exactly what
(07:19):
folks in the Life movement wanted. I would get a call,
make amends, go back, go back and tell them you
were wrong. And it was really damaging to a campaign.
But I felt that I was endorsed by these groups.
I didn't want to go against that loyalty. But I also,
(07:41):
I mean, I am a strong pro life person, but
I know that the country is in a different place,
and so we were asking people to go against what
their heart says. What I realized in this is something
that has been really challenging for I think all pro
life people, and that is that we are not celebrating
(08:02):
our wins. We have so many wins in this if
you talk about the young woman who comes to the
pregnancy center and decides that she's going to raise her
baby or give her baby up for adoption. But also, look,
the majority of the western world is at ten to
twelve weeks. This is something that I remember halfway through,
(08:26):
and in Michigan is kind of unique because we had
it on the ballot, and so I think people felt
that when I said, look, if you want to vote
for this, it's on the ballot, that I was also
betraying the pro life movement. But I also saw what
was happening on the ground, and I knew that people's
hearts were not where the pro life movement thought that
they were going to be. So we started talking about
(08:50):
what that meant with some of my folks that were
really very pro life, and I said, I really think
that there's a chance in the state of Michigan, based
on just going around to talking to people, that you
are going to go from protecting some life to protecting
no life. And they wouldn't see. They just said no,
our polling doesn't show that. This is also what you
(09:11):
should know about polling. It's not always going to show
you what you're really seeing. You have to be out
there hearing from people. The polling didn't show that. But
I was talking to people and I was seeing that.
I said to them, don't you think that there is
a chance that if you go to twelve weeks you
can see this as a big win. And I think
this is where the life movement needs to start thinking
(09:34):
about things, because the legislative path is a tiny path
in winning over the hearts of people for family, and
it has to come from many different angles. So if
I were to tell someone today, Michigan before twenty twenty
two was a Roe v. Wade state, So it was
(09:55):
twenty four to twenty six weeks for abortion. We could
have gone to twelve weeks. I guarantee you it would
have passed. We would have cut that in half, and
we could have celebrated that as a huge win for
the life movement. Look, you went from twenty four to
twelve weeks. That is a huge win for the life movement.
(10:15):
And that's just the law. There are so many things
that you can do to impact hearts and minds outside
of the law, but that wasn't acceptable at that time.
And now because of that, we have abortion up to
the moment of birth. So I am calling on the
people in the life movement to see that there are
(10:37):
wins along the way, because we cannot live in a
world of absolutes. And that's something that we should take
away from twenty two. In general, absolutes will never win races.
We are in a situation where we have the sides
so far apart when you really were not that far apart.
(10:58):
But absolutes will kill a relationship every time look at it.
I tell this story of a friend of mine who
got divorced, and I said to her, what happened? What
do you think it was that ended the relationship. And
it was funny because she's going, well, he always does this,
and he always does that, and he never does this,
and he never does that, and he thinks I always
(11:20):
do this always in Nevers always, and Nevers took two
people broke them apart because they lived in the absolutes,
the either sides. And so many times, our legislators, our
elected officials, our candidates are controlled by those absolutes because
you have these outside movements that come in and say no,
(11:42):
you have to live right here in this space. But
then I can't meet people, I can't change their hearts,
I can't help them succeed in life if I live
in the absolutes. So why are we not saying that
there's an opportunity to come together outside of that? And
I can tell you that like biblically, because so many
(12:06):
times I've had people that are in this position that
have said, you know, I had this movement come to
me and they said, you're not a good Christian. You're
not a good Christian. It's funny because we decided to
do this podcast and last night I got a letter
from a woman. After I talked to a pro life group,
I got a letter from a woman that was very encouraging.
And then I got a letter from someone else this
(12:28):
morning who was telling me, have you noticed that you
haven't been invited to certain life events? That's because you
let us down. That's because you ended up hurting our movement.
We worked for thirty years on this and in three
months you destroyed it. Let's take a quick commercial break.
We'll continue next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. So I
(12:52):
would argue that it doesn't come down to one politician,
one candidate, one elected official that can tear down an
entire movement. I would say, what biblically are we being
told here? What are we missing? Because God didn't just
let this happen because he said, gosh, you know these
people running for office, they just don't get it. But
(13:14):
I think God would tell us that you can't live
in the absolute, because Jesus didn't live in the absolute,
and he gave us so many stories of this. He
gave us so many stories like I mean, even if
we start with Abraham and Abraham was told by God
that you will have a child, and He's like, yeah,
I can't because I'm too old. Sarah is too old.
(13:36):
The absolute, we are too old but God, you're telling
me this, so there must be another way that I'm
supposed to figure that out on my own. I can't
trust you on this because you think I can do
this at this age. I'm going to have to do
it my way. And so he goes out and we
have Ishmael and God says, that wasn't my plan. I
(13:57):
told you my plan. You lived in the absolute. Come
back to the center. There's a way to do it.
We can talk about Jacob who believed that he had
to get the blessing and trick his father into giving
him the blessing because that was the absolute. I have
to have the blessing, so I will do it my way.
And so often we are so closed to the fact
(14:21):
that we can come together that there is another way.
This malicious obedience to the law. I mean, that was
the Pharisees, right, If we're really being honest about this,
the Pharisees were walking around with Scripture on their arm,
pulling it open and saying no, no, no, according to
the law, you're wrong. I'm right, you are not right.
I'm better than you because I know the law. That's
(14:43):
what people are seeing right now when conservatives or these
some of these folks in the Life movement come out
and say you are totally wrong. They see the Pharisees
and they step away because they're like, why can never
be that good? That is us losing. So I'll go
to one more example, and that is Naomi. Naomi and Ruth.
(15:09):
In the Bible, Naomi loses her sons and her husband,
and she tells her daughter in laws leave you don't
want to be around me, call me Mara. I'm bitter,
I change my name. I'm never going to be happy again.
It is an absolute. I've lost my family. I am
not going to get through this. I am absolutely going
(15:30):
to be this way the rest of my life. You
know what, I got to say, there's a lot of
women out there that would choose the path of the
other daughter in law and be like, yeah, I'm out.
I'm really not going to hang out with my better
mother in law the rest of my life. Don't have
a lot of opportunities here because that's just how it
was back then. I'm going to leave. But Ruth was like,
stop living in the absolute. I'm not calling you Mara.
(15:51):
You're going to be Naomi. I'm going to take care
of you and ultimately look at the beautyful, beautiful story
that came from that. Ruth goes out, she's she's picking
up the wheat. Bo Az notices her. Naomi goes on
to become a grandmother, to have a wonderful life, to
live in a family that was wealthy and safe. And
(16:13):
it was because Ruth didn't say, this is the way
life is, and I no longer can be with you.
We have got to get away from these absolutes and
say there is a way to come together. And I
know there are people in the Life movement right now
saying you're saying that you're willing to let babies die.
(16:35):
I'm telling you, the hearts of people have been hardened
against your message. You need to take a step back
and say, what have we done wrong with this message?
And is this message just something that we want candidates
to talk about every two years, or is this something
that we want to be pushing legislation for when it
(16:56):
comes to adoption, when it comes to childcare, making it
easier for single moms. There are so many ways to
have those small wins. I could take Michigan from thirty
thousand abortions to twenty five to twenty with legislation. That
isn't saying this is where we stand on abortion with
(17:17):
legislation that is saying, this is why family is so wonderful.
A few years back, my husband and I went to
a Bible study and it was on parenting, and at
the beginning of the Bible study we learned a lot
about words of life and words of death, something I'd
never heard about before. But if you think about it,
it's interesting because if my child brings me a picture
(17:40):
of an elephant and I look down and I'm like, oh,
is that an ocean, and they go, no, it's an elephant,
And I say, oh, you didn't do a very good
job actually making the trunk look like an elephant. What
if I were instead to use words with my young
three year old child that is drawn an elephant, saying oh, well,
(18:00):
that's exciting, I can see it. I want to help
you draw more, I want to help you get better
at this. Let's keep doing this. We are on the
conservative side too often speaking words of death. I asked
a young woman the other day, if you were to
listen to the conservative movement, would you want to have kids?
(18:23):
And she was like, oh, that's funny. No, I mean,
even my friends are like, I don't even want to
bring kids into this world. And I thought, wow, that's awful,
because if that's what we're doing, If this conversation that
we're having about schools and how hard it is to
be a parent and the cost of things and abortion
(18:43):
is all driving people away from family, then we have
been speaking words of death instead of words of life.
And so when you have people saying, boy, the conservative
movement is lost on the pro life message, I would
agree we were very lost because we weren't expecting it.
Fighting for fifty years but not expecting one battle to
be won, expecting it to be the war. So when
(19:06):
it wasn't the war that was over, there was no
idea of what to do to continue on with more battles.
I would say that we have this situation in so
many different areas of politics. This is the time for
us to start using words of life, so to start
(19:26):
coming around people, meeting people where they are. The Democrats
are great at this. I mean the Democrats were great
at this with the abortion stuff. Look in Michigan, they
spliced together things that I said. There was a time
when I was asked about our proposal, which passed, which
allows abortion up to the moment of birth. It also
(19:46):
allows somebody to take you to an abortion clinic without
your parents knowing. It allows for a gender transition without
your parents knowing. It's almost it's almost a I mean,
what it is is really a protection for sex trafficking.
And Michigan has a sex trafficking problem. And so when
asked about this, well, how do you feel about this?
Are you really pro life? I said, when I look
(20:08):
at Prop three, I think Prop three is the perfect example.
And for those of you in Michigan you've heard this statement,
I know you have the perfect example. Because they spliced
it and they went they took away what I said next.
So what I said was, this is the perfect example
of why we need parental consent so abusers can't take
(20:30):
women to clinics over and over and over again. But
they spiced that with a point where I said, a
life is a life, and they manipulated people's minds. They
went straight to them and they made them believe that.
I think they actually created a new term for me,
something that I'd never heard before. They called me a
(20:50):
forced birther. She is going to force people to give birth.
I mean think about that. When you are on the
pro life side, how do you get people to come
and talk to you if you are now a forced brother?
Those scared young women and I know this because one
of my dear friends was that scared young woman at
(21:12):
sixteen and had a boyfriend that drove her out of
state so that she could quietly have an abortion and
no one would know that exists. Those people are out there.
Those women need to be loved. They don't need to
be told that they're wrong. They don't need someone pulling
out the scroll from their sleeve and saying I know
(21:32):
the law better than you. I know that you screwed up.
They need to be loved and told there are options.
They need words of life, not words of death. That's
our opportunity here is to start talking to people and
winning over families outside of election time. I had a
(21:52):
woman I told you, I had the message this morning
from someone who was saying, have you noticed you haven't
been invited to life events? That's because you let us down.
People are blaming you all across the state because you
let us down. And I'm like, that's so funny, because
I feel like I walked into this with no cover
it's like you're walking it. You are in the battle.
(22:15):
You are on the battlefield alone. And I was on
the battlefield alone because nobody this was new territory. This
is astronaut stuff. Nobody has seen a post Roe v.
Wade world. Right, So I go out there with no cover.
But I spoke last weekend to these women, and I
told this story of we cannot live in the absolutes.
(22:36):
We have to realize that there is a way to
talk about this that brings family back. That we can
celebrate a twelve week win. We can we can celebrate
that as a win because for fifty years we've been
at twenty four to twenty six weeks. And if you
cannot say you are glad to cut that in half,
then where are we If you have to live in
(22:57):
the absolute of nothing, we will get everything every single time.
And that's what happened to us. And so I had
this woman write me this letter just it just by chance.
This came in last night, even though we were planning this.
Because God is interesting like that, right, because I'm not
understanding exactly what he wants me to do with the
(23:18):
message that he gave me. But she says, she writes
this long letter, and she says, she says, you spoke,
and it resonated with me as a leader in the
pro life movement. She said, Furthermore, as the head of
a pregnancy care center, I find it incredibly challenging to
both fulfill our brand promise to offer non judgmental, compassionate
(23:40):
care and stay a political in our approach. What I
mean by that is, if our patients clients see us
as a political organization, we won't be trusted with our
brand promise. This life. This is not a political issue.
This is a heart issue. We lost the culture on this.
(24:04):
We were fighting wars. We were fighting these battles in court,
but we weren't on the ground. We weren't in the media.
We weren't in the television shows, in the movies and
the music, the culture, in the schools. I'm telling you
one page the women's right to vote, the next page
(24:27):
the woman's right to choose. You are a part of
this club, you are a woman. You must continue to
keep this message alive. That was what was being taught.
And yet our folks on the conservative side will come
to me and they will say to me, why is
it that young women want to kill their babies, like wow, wow, wow,
(24:51):
that's what you're going to say to people on the
other side of the aisle from you words zev death,
I mean literally of death. They're looking at you and
saying you want to kill babies. That's not That is
not the hearts of the people. The hearts of the people.
We have to protect this right, and we lost that
culture war. We have opportunities to go back and support life,
(25:16):
but it's going to be a series of battles. It's
going to be a series of small battles, and we
have to accept that it is okay to win battles
along the way. I will support anyone who says, look,
we went from twenty four to twenty six weeks, and
we got it down to twelve, just like we see
in most European countries. We got it down to ten.
(25:38):
And now we're going to offer childcare, and now we're
going to come around people with child tax credits. And
now we're going to come around people and say it's
going to be easier to adopt. And why don't we
start fighting rape because in Michigan we are the top
five for rapes per capita in the United States. How
does it help us to have the most a radical
(26:00):
abortion law in the country. It's like a free pass
for people to continue doing this. Why are we not
fighting back on the criminals who are going after women
and putting them in this position. But there's also that
scared teenager. There is also that woman who doesn't know
how she'll make her the ends meet with another child.
(26:21):
Those stories are real, and we need to understand that
we are not winning over the hearts of people by
pulling out our scroll and telling them that we know
the law better. Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll
continue next on the Tutor Dixon podcast Words of Life.
It's so important that we start talking this way, that
(26:44):
we change this movement in a way that we start
to win back people over for family. And I mean
it so sincerely that I think that more people will live,
more babies will live, more families will thrive if we
as conservatives come around and start speaking words of life
into this movement, support into this movement, and we say
(27:06):
this is going to be a heart issue, not just
a political issue. It's a tough conversation to have. I
learned a lot on the campaign trail. There was this
one point when they asked me about the abortion pill
on the radio, and I will tell you I thought
they were talking about Plan B and I said, well,
(27:28):
Plan B will always be available because it's a contraceptive.
And I got a call right after that radio interview.
You have to go back on the air and explain this.
Do you not know what the abortion pill is? And honestly,
I didn't, And I've talked to young women since then
who didn't know what the abortion pill was either, because
I had only ever heard of that and I'm obviously
(27:49):
somebody who's older now and I'm not having children at
this point in my life, so I was not aware
of what the abortion pill was. So the abortion pill
is a pill that you've seen in the news lately
because the FDA has gone back and forth on whether
or not they're going to relook at it and see
if it's truly safe. And the reason people have asked
(28:09):
if it's truly safe is that you can take this pills,
two pills. You can take it up to eleven weeks.
And so you take the first pill and that suffocates
and essentially kills the baby, and then you take the
second pill. And this is all at home. This is
not under the supervision of a doctor at a hospital.
This is at home. In fact, the real complaint is
that this is now legal to mail to people, and
(28:32):
you could mail it across state lines, but you could
just call up the doctor and have it mailed to you.
And so again you have the sex traffics sex trafficking
concern because how do we really know who this is
going to and who's taking this pill? But also you're
going into labor at home. And so I will give
Life News credit on this because they posted a video
of a young woman who explained that she didn't know
(28:54):
what this was going to do. She thought she would
lead and that would be it. It would be like
a period, but she said she decided she waited. She
got it at seven weeks. She was actually hoping that
her boyfriend would change his mind. And then at ten
weeks she took it. And she tells through tears that
she woke up to the stabbing pain about five am. Yeah,
(29:16):
because labor is incredibly painful. So she's going into labor
and she's giving birth to a baby that has dyed.
And she said she gave birth in the toilet and
looked down and was shocked to see a baby there.
It was haunting to listen to this girl tell the story.
That was what I didn't know about the abortion pill.
(29:39):
When they asked me about the abortion pill, I didn't
know that you could just order it in the mail.
You could have an abortion at home, under no supervision
of a doctor, as a young woman in your house.
She said. She bled for days after that and just
laid in bed. There's nothing easy about abortion. We are
(30:00):
in this world of absolutes. We have the one side
that says, absolutely, don't do it. You'll figure out a
way you can give your baby up. You can keep
your baby. Just keep your baby. The other side that says,
get a cake, celebrate it, have a party, talk about
your abortion. Neither of those is reality. Those people who
(30:22):
go through the abortion, it's hard. There's pain afterward, there's
anguish after that. The people who don't, who choose life,
they adopt out their baby, they keep their baby. It's hard.
These are hard issues that we are making light of
in elections when these are heart issues we need to
(30:43):
be working on in different ways. So I encourage all
of you out there, no matter what side you're on,
step away from the absolute. Hear what young women are saying,
stop going out there and saying women want to kill
their babies. And if you're on the side where you're
shouting your abortion and celebrating it, stop doing that too,
(31:04):
because you're giving a false idea of what this actually is,
how harmful this actually is to someone's heart. Both sides
are making a mistake. We've got to start talking about
this in a different way. And I'll end by saying this.
We have people that are making light of this and
(31:27):
making this a political issue. We have people on the
left who are asking folks to join them and celebrate abortions,
and we have people on the right that are asking
them to join them and say, you absolutely won't do this,
you absolutely protect this in all ways. I'm asking you,
(31:49):
if this is near and dear to your heart, talk
to people, talk through this. Do not make this something
that you're going to hold a candidate to. You're going
to destroy a political campaign over. I saw an article
from a life group where somebody was quoted saying, I'd
(32:10):
rather never see a Republican win again than have them
given incheon life. The idea that one person can stand
in the way that a human can part the sea.
On this you're wrong. It's not up to a person
to part the sea. God is asking you to listen
(32:35):
to the people. I promise you he wouldn't have let
Prop three pass in Michigan if he wasn't trying to
send a message that we are not winning over the hearts,
the heart and hearts of the people, and that we
need to change our approach. I'd love to talk about
it more. I know that this is probably going to
be a big shock to people out there, but it's
(32:58):
an issue that's going to come up in this race.
We already see people going after Donald Trump. Donald Trump,
he's the bad guy now. He's pro choice. And Ron
De Santis is six weeks that he passed the heartbeat bill.
He's right. Watch what happens. This is going to be
really interesting. Donald Trump got these justices appointed to the
(33:19):
Supreme Court. Everything that the pro life movement wanted was
to get these justices appointed to the Supreme Court to
overturn Roe v. Wade. But now Donald Trump is the
bad guy because he said, well, I would let the
states choose. They want somebody to come in and say, federally,
we are going to do We're going to with the
(33:41):
mark of a pen. With the swift move of a pen,
we are going to change the way people think about abortion.
I'm telling you it's not going to happen. There are
battles along the way. If you think you have a
savior that is going to come in and dictate this
from the White House, you may be in for an
another twenty twenty twenty twenty two. It's going to be
(34:03):
a rough ride, So go off into the distance. I
suggest you speak words of life. You think about when
you're speaking words of death. We come around families. It's
about time we get that back. Thank you for listening
to me on this very hard subject of abortion. As
usual for this episode and others, you can go to
(34:26):
the tutordisonpodcast dot com. Subscribe right there and make sure
you join us the next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
Go out there and speak words of life. Everyone. Thanks
Hey, this is Buck Sexton and you're listening to the
Tutor Dixon Podcast, part of the Clay Travers and Buck
Sexton podcast Network. Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I
am Tutor Dixon, and I'm glad you're joining me today.
I have an interesting episode for you today because today
in this podcast, we're actually going to go through a
(00:21):
pretty heavy topic that I think I know more about
than most people that have been in the political world
on the Republican side, I would say because I had
kind of a unique campaign, and that is because I
am one of the candidates that ran for office while
(00:42):
we were going through roeby Wade getting overturned. And so
today we'll be talking about abortion. Many of you probably
know that when people look back at the gubernatorial race
in Michigan, a lot of folks would say that abortion
was the deciding factor. And I think that to almost
certain extent that is the case. That's what pushed people
(01:05):
to the Democrat side. But I kind of want to
unpack exactly what happened in the movement and what I
see the answer is for Republicans going forward on the
discussion of abortion, because we learned a lot here in Michigan,
and I think that if you learn that much, you
certainly should share it. So let me go through a
little bit about how what it was like on my
(01:27):
side of the race, because in the primary, we're going
through and we're discussing where we stand on certain issues.
And of course you've all heard that I'm pro life,
and I have my reasons for that. But what you
might not know about me as a pro life person
is that I wasn't always a pro life person. I
(01:48):
grew up in a very liberal town, and I was
at a very liberal high school, and I like to
explain to people who don't understand folks on the pro
choice side. I like to explain what it was like
to grow up in the way that I grew up,
and that is that in my high school, we learned
about the woman's right to vote right next to the
(02:09):
woman's right to choose, and so people were taught, I mean,
as young women, we were taught like you're a part
of this club. These people worked really hard to make
it legal for you to vote, and make it legal
for you to make this choice about your health care.
It wasn't about killing a baby or getting rid of
a baby. It was about your healthcare. And it's a
(02:30):
very compelling case when you're a young woman and really
they're not explaining to you any of the details of that,
and there's a mindset of this is not really a
child until you give birth to the baby. And so
I really was manipulated by that for many years and
believed in that until I had my own miscarriage. I
(02:51):
would say not even you know, even going through my
first birth, I guess I hadn't really thought much about
that movement because it hadn't been something that had been
a part of my life. You know, I was busy working.
And I think this is something other people need to
recognize too. Not everybody as an activist on one side
or the other. Most people are just living their lives
and so they're getting fed information from campaigns and that's
(03:16):
very powerful. So for me, when I was thirty three,
I lost a baby. At eighteen weeks my baby, I
went in for my appointment and the doctor said the
baby's heartbeat wasn't beating anymore, and so she looked at
me and she said, we can go in right now
and we can do the surgery, and you know, we'll
just cut the baby out. But you won't. I mean,
(03:38):
it would really be cutting the baby up. You know,
you won't see the baby. It'll just be a surgical procedure.
You'll be in and out in a few hours. Or
you can go through labor, you can hold the baby,
we can see what happened to the baby. And you know,
at that time, I couldn't. I just found out that
I lost the baby, and I couldn't stand the thought
of cutting the baby up, and so I went into
(03:59):
the hospital. When I was in the hospital for three
days and went through labor, and actually went through labor,
held the baby, ended up having a complication after holding
the baby and going into surgery, and those are scary times.
But I think that holding a baby at eighteen weeks
was really it really tugged on my heart in a
(04:22):
new and different way than I had ever seen before.
But I'm also in the position of because of that,
because of not having understood that beforehand, I see how
the culture of society has changed the ideas of what
a pregnancy is and how people feel that this right
(04:44):
to choose is so important. So this was a really
hard thing for me during the campaign, because when you
talk about this in a campaign, you have all these
groups come to you, and they're like, we want you
to hear all of these sides, really the pro life sides.
So I had a lot of the pro life groups
come to me, and I heard so many incredible stories
(05:05):
and they're really hard stories to not carry along with
you the rest of your life. Of families that had
made the choice to keep their baby or to put
their baby up for adoption, and how this had changed
their whole world, and it was it helped them, it
was a good thing for them. You will hear all
of these positive stories. I was obviously on the conservative side,
(05:27):
so those are the stories that I'm hearing, and they
asked me to share those stories. And I was a
first time candidate, and I'm also again one of the
candidates that is running for the first time. And I
say this in all sincerity with no protection from Roe
v Wade. And I say no protection because I think
that every conservative running before twenty twenty two could say
(05:50):
they were pro life and not have the consequence of
Roe v. Wade being overturned. And that is just the
hard and brutal truth. And I will get a lot
of criticism for them, but people need to understand that
we for the first time realized that that was a
small battle in a very long war. And I want
you to think about this from the standpoint of fifty years.
(06:13):
For fifty years, women have said this is a right.
And then I think that a lot of people in
the Life movement felt that this was winning the war.
Going in there in Roe v. Wade getting overturned, that
was winning the war. It was over. There was going
to be no more abortion. But it was just a
tiny battle in the ongoing war for life. And the
(06:35):
war is not a war that should be happening on
just the political side. This is something that we have
lost the hearts of the people on I know I
was one of them. I totally get it, and I
think that there are so many women out there who go, yeah,
that's how I feel too. I think that because I
(06:57):
traveled around the entire state of Michigan and I had
strong Christian women come to me and say, you cannot
have this stance on abortion. That was really tough because
every time I would say something on the radio or
talk on a television interview and it wasn't exactly what
(07:19):
folks in the Life movement wanted. I would get a call,
make amends, go back, go back and tell them you
were wrong. And it was really damaging to a campaign.
But I felt that I was endorsed by these groups.
I didn't want to go against that loyalty. But I also,
(07:41):
I mean, I am a strong pro life person, but
I know that the country is in a different place,
and so we were asking people to go against what
their heart says. What I realized in this is something
that has been really challenging for I think all pro
life people, and that is that we are not celebrating
(08:02):
our wins. We have so many wins in this if
you talk about the young woman who comes to the
pregnancy center and decides that she's going to raise her
baby or give her baby up for adoption. But also, look,
the majority of the western world is at ten to
twelve weeks. This is something that I remember halfway through,
(08:26):
and in Michigan is kind of unique because we had
it on the ballot, and so I think people felt
that when I said, look, if you want to vote
for this, it's on the ballot, that I was also
betraying the pro life movement. But I also saw what
was happening on the ground, and I knew that people's
hearts were not where the pro life movement thought that
they were going to be. So we started talking about
(08:50):
what that meant with some of my folks that were
really very pro life, and I said, I really think
that there's a chance in the state of Michigan, based
on just going around to talking to people, that you
are going to go from protecting some life to protecting
no life. And they wouldn't see. They just said no,
our polling doesn't show that. This is also what you
(09:11):
should know about polling. It's not always going to show
you what you're really seeing. You have to be out
there hearing from people. The polling didn't show that. But
I was talking to people and I was seeing that.
I said to them, don't you think that there is
a chance that if you go to twelve weeks you
can see this as a big win. And I think
this is where the life movement needs to start thinking
(09:34):
about things, because the legislative path is a tiny path
in winning over the hearts of people for family, and
it has to come from many different angles. So if
I were to tell someone today, Michigan before twenty twenty
two was a Roe v. Wade state, So it was
(09:55):
twenty four to twenty six weeks for abortion. We could
have gone to twelve weeks. I guarantee you it would
have passed. We would have cut that in half, and
we could have celebrated that as a huge win for
the life movement. Look, you went from twenty four to
twelve weeks. That is a huge win for the life movement.
(10:15):
And that's just the law. There are so many things
that you can do to impact hearts and minds outside
of the law, but that wasn't acceptable at that time.
And now because of that, we have abortion up to
the moment of birth. So I am calling on the
people in the life movement to see that there are
(10:37):
wins along the way, because we cannot live in a
world of absolutes. And that's something that we should take
away from twenty two. In general, absolutes will never win races.
We are in a situation where we have the sides
so far apart when you really were not that far apart.
(10:58):
But absolutes will kill a relationship every time look at it.
I tell this story of a friend of mine who
got divorced, and I said to her, what happened? What
do you think it was that ended the relationship. And
it was funny because she's going, well, he always does this,
and he always does that, and he never does this,
and he never does that, and he thinks I always
(11:20):
do this always in Nevers always, and Nevers took two
people broke them apart because they lived in the absolutes,
the either sides. And so many times, our legislators, our
elected officials, our candidates are controlled by those absolutes because
you have these outside movements that come in and say no,
(11:42):
you have to live right here in this space. But
then I can't meet people, I can't change their hearts,
I can't help them succeed in life if I live
in the absolutes. So why are we not saying that
there's an opportunity to come together outside of that? And
I can tell you that like biblically, because so many
(12:06):
times I've had people that are in this position that
have said, you know, I had this movement come to
me and they said, you're not a good Christian. You're
not a good Christian. It's funny because we decided to
do this podcast and last night I got a letter
from a woman. After I talked to a pro life group,
I got a letter from a woman that was very encouraging.
And then I got a letter from someone else this
(12:28):
morning who was telling me, have you noticed that you
haven't been invited to certain life events? That's because you
let us down. That's because you ended up hurting our movement.
We worked for thirty years on this and in three
months you destroyed it. Let's take a quick commercial break.
We'll continue next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. So I
(12:52):
would argue that it doesn't come down to one politician,
one candidate, one elected official that can tear down an
entire movement. I would say, what biblically are we being
told here? What are we missing? Because God didn't just
let this happen because he said, gosh, you know these
people running for office, they just don't get it. But
(13:14):
I think God would tell us that you can't live
in the absolute, because Jesus didn't live in the absolute,
and he gave us so many stories of this. He
gave us so many stories like I mean, even if
we start with Abraham and Abraham was told by God
that you will have a child, and He's like, yeah,
I can't because I'm too old. Sarah is too old.
(13:36):
The absolute, we are too old but God, you're telling
me this, so there must be another way that I'm
supposed to figure that out on my own. I can't
trust you on this because you think I can do
this at this age. I'm going to have to do
it my way. And so he goes out and we
have Ishmael and God says, that wasn't my plan. I
(13:57):
told you my plan. You lived in the absolute. Come
back to the center. There's a way to do it.
We can talk about Jacob who believed that he had
to get the blessing and trick his father into giving
him the blessing because that was the absolute. I have
to have the blessing, so I will do it my way.
And so often we are so closed to the fact
(14:21):
that we can come together that there is another way.
This malicious obedience to the law. I mean, that was
the Pharisees, right, If we're really being honest about this,
the Pharisees were walking around with Scripture on their arm,
pulling it open and saying no, no, no, according to
the law, you're wrong. I'm right, you are not right.
I'm better than you because I know the law. That's
(14:43):
what people are seeing right now when conservatives or these
some of these folks in the Life movement come out
and say you are totally wrong. They see the Pharisees
and they step away because they're like, why can never
be that good? That is us losing. So I'll go
to one more example, and that is Naomi. Naomi and Ruth.
(15:09):
In the Bible, Naomi loses her sons and her husband,
and she tells her daughter in laws leave you don't
want to be around me, call me Mara. I'm bitter,
I change my name. I'm never going to be happy again.
It is an absolute. I've lost my family. I am
not going to get through this. I am absolutely going
(15:30):
to be this way the rest of my life. You
know what, I got to say, there's a lot of
women out there that would choose the path of the
other daughter in law and be like, yeah, I'm out.
I'm really not going to hang out with my better
mother in law the rest of my life. Don't have
a lot of opportunities here because that's just how it
was back then. I'm going to leave. But Ruth was like,
stop living in the absolute. I'm not calling you Mara.
(15:51):
You're going to be Naomi. I'm going to take care
of you and ultimately look at the beautyful, beautiful story
that came from that. Ruth goes out, she's she's picking
up the wheat. Bo Az notices her. Naomi goes on
to become a grandmother, to have a wonderful life, to
live in a family that was wealthy and safe. And
(16:13):
it was because Ruth didn't say, this is the way
life is, and I no longer can be with you.
We have got to get away from these absolutes and
say there is a way to come together. And I
know there are people in the Life movement right now
saying you're saying that you're willing to let babies die.
(16:35):
I'm telling you, the hearts of people have been hardened
against your message. You need to take a step back
and say, what have we done wrong with this message?
And is this message just something that we want candidates
to talk about every two years, or is this something
that we want to be pushing legislation for when it
(16:56):
comes to adoption, when it comes to childcare, making it
easier for single moms. There are so many ways to
have those small wins. I could take Michigan from thirty
thousand abortions to twenty five to twenty with legislation. That
isn't saying this is where we stand on abortion with
(17:17):
legislation that is saying, this is why family is so wonderful.
A few years back, my husband and I went to
a Bible study and it was on parenting, and at
the beginning of the Bible study we learned a lot
about words of life and words of death, something I'd
never heard about before. But if you think about it,
it's interesting because if my child brings me a picture
(17:40):
of an elephant and I look down and I'm like, oh,
is that an ocean, and they go, no, it's an elephant,
And I say, oh, you didn't do a very good
job actually making the trunk look like an elephant. What
if I were instead to use words with my young
three year old child that is drawn an elephant, saying oh, well,
(18:00):
that's exciting, I can see it. I want to help
you draw more, I want to help you get better
at this. Let's keep doing this. We are on the
conservative side too often speaking words of death. I asked
a young woman the other day, if you were to
listen to the conservative movement, would you want to have kids?
(18:23):
And she was like, oh, that's funny. No, I mean,
even my friends are like, I don't even want to
bring kids into this world. And I thought, wow, that's awful,
because if that's what we're doing, If this conversation that
we're having about schools and how hard it is to
be a parent and the cost of things and abortion
(18:43):
is all driving people away from family, then we have
been speaking words of death instead of words of life.
And so when you have people saying, boy, the conservative
movement is lost on the pro life message, I would
agree we were very lost because we weren't expecting it.
Fighting for fifty years but not expecting one battle to
be won, expecting it to be the war. So when
(19:06):
it wasn't the war that was over, there was no
idea of what to do to continue on with more battles.
I would say that we have this situation in so
many different areas of politics. This is the time for
us to start using words of life, so to start
(19:26):
coming around people, meeting people where they are. The Democrats
are great at this. I mean the Democrats were great
at this with the abortion stuff. Look in Michigan, they
spliced together things that I said. There was a time
when I was asked about our proposal, which passed, which
allows abortion up to the moment of birth. It also
(19:46):
allows somebody to take you to an abortion clinic without
your parents knowing. It allows for a gender transition without
your parents knowing. It's almost it's almost a I mean,
what it is is really a protection for sex trafficking.
And Michigan has a sex trafficking problem. And so when
asked about this, well, how do you feel about this?
Are you really pro life? I said, when I look
(20:08):
at Prop three, I think Prop three is the perfect example.
And for those of you in Michigan you've heard this statement,
I know you have the perfect example. Because they spliced
it and they went they took away what I said next.
So what I said was, this is the perfect example
of why we need parental consent so abusers can't take
(20:30):
women to clinics over and over and over again. But
they spiced that with a point where I said, a
life is a life, and they manipulated people's minds. They
went straight to them and they made them believe that.
I think they actually created a new term for me,
something that I'd never heard before. They called me a
(20:50):
forced birther. She is going to force people to give birth.
I mean think about that. When you are on the
pro life side, how do you get people to come
and talk to you if you are now a forced brother?
Those scared young women and I know this because one
of my dear friends was that scared young woman at
(21:12):
sixteen and had a boyfriend that drove her out of
state so that she could quietly have an abortion and
no one would know that exists. Those people are out there.
Those women need to be loved. They don't need to
be told that they're wrong. They don't need someone pulling
out the scroll from their sleeve and saying I know
(21:32):
the law better than you. I know that you screwed up.
They need to be loved and told there are options.
They need words of life, not words of death. That's
our opportunity here is to start talking to people and
winning over families outside of election time. I had a
(21:52):
woman I told you, I had the message this morning
from someone who was saying, have you noticed you haven't
been invited to life events? That's because you let us down.
People are blaming you all across the state because you
let us down. And I'm like, that's so funny, because
I feel like I walked into this with no cover
it's like you're walking it. You are in the battle.
(22:15):
You are on the battlefield alone. And I was on
the battlefield alone because nobody this was new territory. This
is astronaut stuff. Nobody has seen a post Roe v.
Wade world. Right, So I go out there with no cover.
But I spoke last weekend to these women, and I
told this story of we cannot live in the absolutes.
(22:36):
We have to realize that there is a way to
talk about this that brings family back. That we can
celebrate a twelve week win. We can we can celebrate
that as a win because for fifty years we've been
at twenty four to twenty six weeks. And if you
cannot say you are glad to cut that in half,
then where are we If you have to live in
(22:57):
the absolute of nothing, we will get everything every single time.
And that's what happened to us. And so I had
this woman write me this letter just it just by chance.
This came in last night, even though we were planning this.
Because God is interesting like that, right, because I'm not
understanding exactly what he wants me to do with the
(23:18):
message that he gave me. But she says, she writes
this long letter, and she says, she says, you spoke,
and it resonated with me as a leader in the
pro life movement. She said, Furthermore, as the head of
a pregnancy care center, I find it incredibly challenging to
both fulfill our brand promise to offer non judgmental, compassionate
(23:40):
care and stay a political in our approach. What I
mean by that is, if our patients clients see us
as a political organization, we won't be trusted with our
brand promise. This life. This is not a political issue.
This is a heart issue. We lost the culture on this.
(24:04):
We were fighting wars. We were fighting these battles in court,
but we weren't on the ground. We weren't in the media.
We weren't in the television shows, in the movies and
the music, the culture, in the schools. I'm telling you
one page the women's right to vote, the next page
(24:27):
the woman's right to choose. You are a part of
this club, you are a woman. You must continue to
keep this message alive. That was what was being taught.
And yet our folks on the conservative side will come
to me and they will say to me, why is
it that young women want to kill their babies, like wow, wow, wow,
(24:51):
that's what you're going to say to people on the
other side of the aisle from you words zev death,
I mean literally of death. They're looking at you and
saying you want to kill babies. That's not That is
not the hearts of the people. The hearts of the people.
We have to protect this right, and we lost that
culture war. We have opportunities to go back and support life,
(25:16):
but it's going to be a series of battles. It's
going to be a series of small battles, and we
have to accept that it is okay to win battles
along the way. I will support anyone who says, look,
we went from twenty four to twenty six weeks, and
we got it down to twelve, just like we see
in most European countries. We got it down to ten.
(25:38):
And now we're going to offer childcare, and now we're
going to come around people with child tax credits. And
now we're going to come around people and say it's
going to be easier to adopt. And why don't we
start fighting rape because in Michigan we are the top
five for rapes per capita in the United States. How
does it help us to have the most a radical
(26:00):
abortion law in the country. It's like a free pass
for people to continue doing this. Why are we not
fighting back on the criminals who are going after women
and putting them in this position. But there's also that
scared teenager. There is also that woman who doesn't know
how she'll make her the ends meet with another child.
(26:21):
Those stories are real, and we need to understand that
we are not winning over the hearts of people by
pulling out our scroll and telling them that we know
the law better. Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll
continue next on the Tutor Dixon podcast Words of Life.
It's so important that we start talking this way, that
(26:44):
we change this movement in a way that we start
to win back people over for family. And I mean
it so sincerely that I think that more people will live,
more babies will live, more families will thrive if we
as conservatives come around and start speaking words of life
into this movement, support into this movement, and we say
(27:06):
this is going to be a heart issue, not just
a political issue. It's a tough conversation to have. I
learned a lot on the campaign trail. There was this
one point when they asked me about the abortion pill
on the radio, and I will tell you I thought
they were talking about Plan B and I said, well,
(27:28):
Plan B will always be available because it's a contraceptive.
And I got a call right after that radio interview.
You have to go back on the air and explain this.
Do you not know what the abortion pill is? And honestly,
I didn't, And I've talked to young women since then
who didn't know what the abortion pill was either, because
I had only ever heard of that and I'm obviously
(27:49):
somebody who's older now and I'm not having children at
this point in my life, so I was not aware
of what the abortion pill was. So the abortion pill
is a pill that you've seen in the news lately
because the FDA has gone back and forth on whether
or not they're going to relook at it and see
if it's truly safe. And the reason people have asked
(28:09):
if it's truly safe is that you can take this pills,
two pills. You can take it up to eleven weeks.
And so you take the first pill and that suffocates
and essentially kills the baby, and then you take the
second pill. And this is all at home. This is
not under the supervision of a doctor at a hospital.
This is at home. In fact, the real complaint is
that this is now legal to mail to people, and
(28:32):
you could mail it across state lines, but you could
just call up the doctor and have it mailed to you.
And so again you have the sex traffics sex trafficking
concern because how do we really know who this is
going to and who's taking this pill? But also you're
going into labor at home. And so I will give
Life News credit on this because they posted a video
of a young woman who explained that she didn't know
(28:54):
what this was going to do. She thought she would
lead and that would be it. It would be like
a period, but she said she decided she waited. She
got it at seven weeks. She was actually hoping that
her boyfriend would change his mind. And then at ten
weeks she took it. And she tells through tears that
she woke up to the stabbing pain about five am. Yeah,
(29:16):
because labor is incredibly painful. So she's going into labor
and she's giving birth to a baby that has dyed.
And she said she gave birth in the toilet and
looked down and was shocked to see a baby there.
It was haunting to listen to this girl tell the story.
That was what I didn't know about the abortion pill.
(29:39):
When they asked me about the abortion pill, I didn't
know that you could just order it in the mail.
You could have an abortion at home, under no supervision
of a doctor, as a young woman in your house.
She said. She bled for days after that and just
laid in bed. There's nothing easy about abortion. We are
(30:00):
in this world of absolutes. We have the one side
that says, absolutely, don't do it. You'll figure out a
way you can give your baby up. You can keep
your baby. Just keep your baby. The other side that says,
get a cake, celebrate it, have a party, talk about
your abortion. Neither of those is reality. Those people who
(30:22):
go through the abortion, it's hard. There's pain afterward, there's
anguish after that. The people who don't, who choose life,
they adopt out their baby, they keep their baby. It's hard.
These are hard issues that we are making light of
in elections when these are heart issues we need to
(30:43):
be working on in different ways. So I encourage all
of you out there, no matter what side you're on,
step away from the absolute. Hear what young women are saying,
stop going out there and saying women want to kill
their babies. And if you're on the side where you're
shouting your abortion and celebrating it, stop doing that too,
(31:04):
because you're giving a false idea of what this actually is,
how harmful this actually is to someone's heart. Both sides
are making a mistake. We've got to start talking about
this in a different way. And I'll end by saying this.
We have people that are making light of this and
(31:27):
making this a political issue. We have people on the
left who are asking folks to join them and celebrate abortions,
and we have people on the right that are asking
them to join them and say, you absolutely won't do this,
you absolutely protect this in all ways. I'm asking you,
(31:49):
if this is near and dear to your heart, talk
to people, talk through this. Do not make this something
that you're going to hold a candidate to. You're going
to destroy a political campaign over. I saw an article
from a life group where somebody was quoted saying, I'd
(32:10):
rather never see a Republican win again than have them
given incheon life. The idea that one person can stand
in the way that a human can part the sea.
On this you're wrong. It's not up to a person
to part the sea. God is asking you to listen
(32:35):
to the people. I promise you he wouldn't have let
Prop three pass in Michigan if he wasn't trying to
send a message that we are not winning over the hearts,
the heart and hearts of the people, and that we
need to change our approach. I'd love to talk about
it more. I know that this is probably going to
be a big shock to people out there, but it's
(32:58):
an issue that's going to come up in this race.
We already see people going after Donald Trump. Donald Trump,
he's the bad guy now. He's pro choice. And Ron
De Santis is six weeks that he passed the heartbeat bill.
He's right. Watch what happens. This is going to be
really interesting. Donald Trump got these justices appointed to the
(33:19):
Supreme Court. Everything that the pro life movement wanted was
to get these justices appointed to the Supreme Court to
overturn Roe v. Wade. But now Donald Trump is the
bad guy because he said, well, I would let the
states choose. They want somebody to come in and say, federally,
we are going to do We're going to with the
(33:41):
mark of a pen. With the swift move of a pen,
we are going to change the way people think about abortion.
I'm telling you it's not going to happen. There are
battles along the way. If you think you have a
savior that is going to come in and dictate this
from the White House, you may be in for an
another twenty twenty twenty twenty two. It's going to be
(34:03):
a rough ride, So go off into the distance. I
suggest you speak words of life. You think about when
you're speaking words of death. We come around families. It's
about time we get that back. Thank you for listening
to me on this very hard subject of abortion. As
usual for this episode and others, you can go to
(34:26):
the tutordisonpodcast dot com. Subscribe right there and make sure
you join us the next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
Go out there and speak words of life. Everyone. Thanks
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show News
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Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
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