October 1, 2025 • 22 mins
October 1, 2013. She wasn't supposed to get a mammogram that day. In fact, she wasn't "supposed" to have one for several more years. But Amy Robach's decision 12 years ago today is one worth noting and even celebrating.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, folks, it is Wednesday, October first, and on this day,
twelve years ago, Amy Robot stepped onto a van, pulled
out her breast, and life changed forever. Welcome to this
episode of Amy and TJ. This is an anniversary robes
of your life starting in a different direction. You look
(00:26):
at it as what reflective, happy anniversary, said anniversary what?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It's not sad because this was the day that changed
my life. This is the day that actually made today
possible and the reason why I actually celebrate it and
don't mind and actually appreciate talking about it because this day,
October first, is the first day of Breast Cancer Awareness Month,
and because of that, I was asked on assignment to
(00:57):
have my first mammogram in a Mamma van in the
middle of Times Square on live national television. And I
didn't want to do it, and I actually said no
multiple times before eventually saying yes. Because I had no
family history of breast cancer. I truly believed that it
couldn't happen to me, and so I didn't feel like
(01:18):
I needed to get a mammogram At the time. The
recommendations were that if you had no family history, you
could wait until you were fifty, So at forty, why
would I walk into a Mamma van and have a mammogram.
I didn't want to do it, but thankfully I did
because that was the day that led to my diagnosis
at the end of this month where I was ultimately
(01:40):
diagnosed with stage two invasive bast CAN.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
But again go back to October first. You look at
it as what I know, people talk about cancer versors,
they talk about other stuff. October first, for.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You is what it was a liberation day because I
was finally by going ahead and going through with this mammogram,
I got information that I needed to then set out
on a path where I could save my own life. Literally,
the power was mine to have only if I knew
(02:08):
what I was dealing with. And I think a lot
of women don't make their appointments. They don't go in
for their mammograms because number one, they don't think it
can happen to them, and number two, they're afraid of
what they might find out. They don't want to know.
Ignorance is bliss, right.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
When was your next mammogram?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, I had been given a prescription at the age
of thirty nine by my obgyn and said you know what,
maybe you should think about doing this. You're coming up
on the age where look, it's disputed as to when
you should go in, but you're around that age. And
I thought, okay, I took that I had a prescription.
I threw it in my purse and it it went
around in there for about, I don't know a few months.
(02:48):
I eventually threw it away and forgot about it. So
I wasn't going to get a mammogram for ten years, Like,
I was not planning on having a test that I
didn't technically need to have, at least according to what
I was hearing recommendations. So why would I get something
that could be painful and definitely would seem annoying if
I didn't have to.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
What decisions have you made in your life after that
diagnosis that you think would have been different had you
never been diagnosed with cancer?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Oh my goodness, I don't think i'd be sitting here
with you.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I know that I wouldn't have run a marathon. I
wouldn't have climbed the mountains I've climbed.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I wouldn't have.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So many things, just how I've reacted to things, friends,
I've chosen to.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Actually let go, and.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Decisions I've made about my time and who I spend
it with. All of that has been significantly impacted by
my cancer Diagnosis's.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Friend's decisions factor into that, has a decision about who's
around you factor into you walking into a van twelve
years ago.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Today, cus I think so often we all take for
granted that we have tomorrow. We don't think about time
as our most precious gift and as a commodity that
we should actually value and really take.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Seriously.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So I think a lot of times I would say
yes to things, yes to people, yes to events, yes
to time spent with folks. So I didn't really enjoy
being around And a lot of it was duty driven
or obligations.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Or I made decisions out of guilt.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But I didn't value my time and I do now
and who, most importantly, who I spend it with, and
how I spend it that and just even just my
overall attitude about the small stuff that can weigh us
all down.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
You remember the first time you laughed about something after
your diagnosis. It took a while, you know, the first
time you genuinely laughed about something.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I don't know what time when I genuinely laughed. But
I can tell you when I genuinely felt some joy,
and you're gonna laugh when I tell you what it was.
I think you'll get it. I think you'll understand. So
when I came finally was released from the hospital after
my double mastectomy, this was in mid November or something
(05:26):
like that, my brother surprised me by showing up at
my apartment when I got back from the hospital, and
it just so happened that when he got there, And
this is one of the few things we share in
terms of our likes. The Conjuring. I had not seen
it came to streaming services, and so I remember all
bandaged up, in significant pain and definitely still on a
(05:49):
little bit of drugs. Eric and I watched the Conjuring together,
and I could get emotional thinking about it because I
remember feeling I laughed, I jumped, I screamed, I forgot,
and for those I don't know, that hour and a half,
however long it runs, I forgot. I didn't think about
what I had just been through and what I was
(06:09):
still facing because chemo was obviously looming ahead of me,
and all sorts of other uncertainties and unknowns. But in
that moment, I was able to just exist and enjoy
the fact that someone else was having a tougher day
than me. They were possessed by demons and I was
just dealing with a medical issue.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Oh no, I mean, if you gave me a choice,
which one demonic possession.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Or breast cancer.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I mean. I have seen them exercise people before the
demon was gone forever.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Oftentimes they don't go well though. It was just it
was a moment where I got to It sounds crazy,
but I in that you know, fear and jump scares
and all of that, and not knowing what's going to happen.
I was taken out of my own horrific reality and
able to actually enjoy another one that was complete.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Make believe you know what.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I would have been looking into doing some science on
horror movies. Okay, just hit on something in particular where
people like to now direct whatever their fear and anxiety
is about life in one direction that's right in front
of them. Whatever that horror movie is, it's all directed there,
and then when it's over there's some sense of relief. Actually,
there's actually folks that argue you can feel better because
(07:25):
you go up, up, up, anxiety and you know it's
going to end.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
That ends in your more relaxed and you feel a
little bit of euphoria.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
So that was actually the first time I felt joy
since my diagnosis was the day I came home and
I watched the Conjuring. So the Conjuring I love regardless,
but it has a special place in my heart in
my breast cancer journey, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
What are you going to tell your daughters about when
they should be screened?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So my oncologist told me that whenever I was diagnosed,
which for me was at the age of forty, although
they do they did say for sure because mine was
a slower growing cancer that I had had it for
a couple of years. But on average, you should have
your daughters be screened ten years before the date of
your diagnosis. So my daughters will have their baseline mammogram
(08:10):
at the age of thirty.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
What do they think of what they said to you
about it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
They are on board with that, and actually we're asking
if they could get it sooner. I think there's a
huge level of fear obviously knowing that their mother had
premenopausal breast cancer with no family history, and I did
not test positive for the Brakawan and bracket two genes,
which is a good thing. But they've been tested as
well and they don't have the gene either, so that's
(08:40):
a little bit of relief, But still there's concern. And clearly,
if you have someone as close as your mother or
your sister or your sibling have breast cancer, you certainly
are at higher risk.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Period.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
So they are all on board with being preventative, and
I know that they're taking their health more seriously, at
least as they get older.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Ava's almost twenty three now.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
She's sending me pictures of her running every day and
she's keto like we are now, so you know, I
think she's starting to realize just the power she has
in terms of her level of exercise, her nutrition, all
of that. And I think analyse will come around eventually.
She's working out, she likes her hot yoga. But I
do think that it's absolutely impacted their decisions, and it
(09:22):
will more so the older they get, the more they're
able to understand what we do know and what we
don't know, and what we can do to prevent something
like this.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Make the connection between walking onto a van twelve years
ago to where you sit now.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Well, I am a completely different person, and I would
even go so far as to say I was arrogant
about my health. I had at that time all my
grandparents still alive, which is fairly remarkable.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
My mom is one of nine, my dad is one
of six.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
And to have looked at all of my family members
at that point, and I don't even know how many
first cousins I have, but it's in the dozens and dozens. Yeah,
you've got these German Catholic families who were trying to
follow the Pope's example at least a few generations ago,
a few generations ago. Yes, that's what happens when you
(10:16):
aren't on birth control. So I have a lot of
family members to compare my situation to, and I just
felt I felt like I couldn't actually have cancer because
I didn't know anyone at that time who did in
my family. And that was an arrogance that I obviously
no longer carry with me, and I think we all
(10:37):
have that. You know, when you're young, you feel invincible.
I felt like I was a runner, and I relatively
took good care of myself. I just felt invincible, and
I certainly don't know, I absolutely understand. I have a
humility about myself. I'm vulnerable in ways that I think
are healthy, because when you recognize that there is no
(10:58):
such thing as security, you act and behave differently.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
No question, again, how did I get you to today?
What twists and turns? And how is your life different?
That's what I was asking and making a connection between
walking onto a van today and where your life has
landed you.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I think all of the decisions, and especially maybe the
little ones fall through the cracks, but the bigger decisions
in my life all now go through the lens of
humility and vulnerability and the fact that I am so
significantly aware that none of us are guaranteed tomorrow. I
(11:42):
will tell you this is something that a lot of
folks don't realize. There are certain kinds of cancers, and
breast cancer is certainly among them. Where you live under
a constant threat of recurrence. When you have a tumor
based cancer, especially a hormonally charged cancer, you recognize that
it could come back. And I received mine. It's called
(12:03):
an ANCA score, and it's your They give you a
number literally that gives you your chance of recurrence low,
medium or high, and mine came in in the higher
echelons of medium, and I remember that day I was
actually at Good Morning America. That was the second most
devastating piece of news. I got past the fact that
I had breast cancer because when I got that ANCA score,
(12:26):
chemo was guaranteed, I knew I had to have six
rounds of it.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
And then now I have to live under this cloud,
this dark cloud.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
That is I actually I know it's figurative, but sometimes
I actually feel like I can see it hanging over
my head, knowing that my cancer could come back. And
so every time you go back for your diagnostics, whether
it's a blood test or just being checked out your
lymph nodes, etc. By your oncologists, you live with this fear,
in this threat that maybe this is the time where
I get the news that I am metastatic. And around
(12:57):
thirty percent of all early stage breast cancer patients become metastatic,
and they can't.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Necessarily know who is going to be.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
They can tell you or at a higher risk, but
ultimately they can't tell you it's gonna come back or
it's not going to It can come back in five years,
ten years, twenty years, thirty years.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Look at Olivia Newton John.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
So every time you hear these stories of these women
who have survived, and then fifteen years later it's back,
twenty years later, it's back. And so that fear was
initially absolutely paralyzing, but then eventually it became motivating.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
And I chose a lot of things, but I chose
us through that lens.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I ask myself sometimes, if I knew my cancer was back,
if I knew I had X amount of years left,
what would I decide then? And if it's different than
what I think I want to do, But when I
look it through that lens, if I have a different answer,
that's the right answer. Because life is short. We're not
here to please other people or to make other people
(13:56):
feel good about our decisions. We're here to love, to learn,
and to value first of our relationship with ourselves and
then with the people who we choose to be around.
I just I don't think I didn't have my priorities straight.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You gotta know.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
More so than I did before. And I'm always I'm
a work in progress. Always, I think that's the big thing.
I'm always trying to do.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Better and be better.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
And I recognize in how many ways I still have
to grow. But that's I think that humility I'm I'm
still working through and working with. But it came to
me it was a gift that I received from cancer
without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
All right. Well, the question I certainly have, and I'm
gonna ask when we come back, is there ever ever
such thing as a good cancer joke? All right, folks,
A lot of a lot laughs in this episode, But
(15:05):
there is a such thing I have seen I've heard before,
cancer humor. Yes, as we continue here on this twelve
year anniversary of robots stepping onto that Mamma Van and
getting that mammogram that led to her diagnosis and really
a change in her life, in the direction of her life,
but robes along the way. I mean you, obviously you
have to laugh to keep them crying. Yes, And obviously
(15:28):
folks who've been diagnosed and their families aren't all walking
around in terrible moods all the time. You find places
for humor. But is there a such thing, first of all,
as cancer humor?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yes, and I highly suggest it. Here's the deal, here's
the caveat. Only the person who actually has had the
cancer can make the joke. No one else should make
a joke. If you haven't walked to that road, if
you haven't walked on that path, if you are not
a cancer survivor, slash Thriver, please don't attempt cancer humor.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Now close we are Nope, you leave it, Nope, leave
it to us. Okay, now the next part of that,
if we leave it to you, then how do we
know how much or even if we can laugh?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
You can totally let Actually, you know what, this is
so funny. I'm hoping maybe in the next month or
two to bring on someone who I was able to meet.
Her name is Rachel and she's a stand up comedian
and she became a stand up comedian while dealing with
metastatic cancer. And she gets up on a stage like
once a week and makes cancer jokes. And she said,
it's true, people don't know if they can laugh. And
(16:36):
she makes it very clear, Please I need you to laugh.
Laugh with me, not at me. But if I'm making
the jokes, it's okay to laugh. I mean you and
I not that this is exactly similar, but you and
I went to that movie American History, Oh yeah, and
there were a lot of jokes that were being made
in jest around Rachel shoes. Yeah, we we were in
(17:02):
the movie theater. You were the only black person a
lot of white folks, and people weren't laughing because they
were afraid to laugh. But I remember thinking, well, I
can laugh because you aren't gonna judge me because it
is funny. But it's one of those things like I
had to look at you, like can I laugh, and
that people around us.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Couldn't laugh because they didn't know you well enough to
look at you. Can we laugh?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
It's similar, Yes, yes, and so yes, it is intentional,
and I do think that's an important part of healing.
They say laughter is the best medicine, and I do
think that we have to be able to laugh. We
have to be able to poke fun at some of
the shit that's handed our way. I mean, we do
that about so many things in life. It's just you know,
(17:44):
you can say you can't say anything about my mother,
but I can't. You know, it's the same, It's the
same rule applies. And I do think that it's helpful
if we can get some perspective and have moments of
levity in the face of really awful moment.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I can't think of what would be a good cancer joke. Like,
I can't see what what what do you poke fun of?
I don't know if you've heard some I'm not putting
you on the spot to remember, but I don't know.
It seems so awkward to think of anything surrounding cancer
to be funny. I know folks can find.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I mean, I think it's I think it's those moments
where like, Okay, my hair is gone, but you know,
you're making a joke about your hair loss, or you're
you know, the fact that you don't have you know,
all of it, like or sorry, excuse me while I
go puke right now, you know, or you know, chemo
brain like you know, Actually it was great because I
would blame stuff on my chemo brain, which actually was legit.
But at a certain point I remember telling the girls,
(18:41):
like telling them to stop fighting, like I'm in the
middle of it and you're gonna actually and they would say, Mom,
how long are you going to pull the cancer card?
Speaker 3 (18:48):
And I was like forever? And then we'd all laugh, like, you.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Know, you just have moments of levity where you're trying
to just acknowledge that this shit is hard, but can
we at least laugh at the absurdity of whatever it
is we were all dealing with or having to work through,
and I think it's actually extremely helpful to.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Be able to do so.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
You still use a cancer card.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Why wouldn't I?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
I mean it's a hell of a house here. You
got the cancer card, I got the black card. We
just smacking each other the cards all day long.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Oh really, well I got one for you. Yes, we
can one off each other. The suffering Olympics.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Well, blank anniversary, I don't know, happy anniversary, but reflective anniversary,
but valuable anniversary and always worth noting. I ever want
to skip over into these moments.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
It's worth noting.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I've always been a big believer in acknowledging anniversaries, even
tough ones, even hard ones, because you can look and
see how far you've come. You can take a moment
to look back at, even if it's something that's devastating
or difficult, the lessons you learned, I mean, those are
all so valuable. There's no point in going through pain
if you can't come out on the other side with wisdom.
(20:02):
And I do think that we look this is so true.
I know you might not know a lot of cancer survivors,
but you know a couple of them. Are they not
some of the most joyful, grateful people you've ever met.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
As soon as you said I was trying to think
of a I didn't have to think of the ones.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I know.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
I'm trying to think of an outlier. I'm trying to
think of somebody.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Who's there's always an outlier.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, but predominantly, I would say ninety five percent of
anyone who any of you know listening who has been
through cancer is going through cancer. Yes, of course there
are dark moments. Yes, of course there are tough times,
but I would argue most of those men and women
have big smiles on their faces, are taking those vacations,
(20:48):
are living out loud. I live my life like a
country music song. I live like I'm dying. We are
all dying. We are all one day closer to our deaths.
So to say I'll do that in a year, I'll
do that in five years.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
You know what, if you can do it now. And
this goes back to some of.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
The quotes of the day that we pick out during
morning run, where it's the advice is to pop that champagne,
pour the expensive wine, burn the candle. You know where
the dress you bought enjoy your life and don't think
or save something for tomorrow or for the next day.
I just the more we live, the older I get,
(21:27):
whether I had had cancer or not. It's funny, I
thought I had this perspective being the journalist that I was,
and that we have covered, you know, death and destruction
like we have, those reminders pounded in on us when
we cover stories and events, like you think, but when
it happens to you, it is a completely different experience
(21:47):
all of a sudden, intellectually what you thought you knew
just to in the depths of your bones, you feel
and you know in a way you couldn't have before.
And so it just it's it's a game changer, you know.
Perspective is is something that is earned, something.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
That is it's not just given.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
You have to go through something to actually really know
what it's like.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Well, happy anniversary anyway, babe.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Thank you. I'm happy to be here, grateful to be
here twelve years later, and
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I'll be grateful for every day after that.
Hey, folks, it is Wednesday, October first, and on this day,
twelve years ago, Amy Robot stepped onto a van, pulled
out her breast, and life changed forever. Welcome to this
episode of Amy and TJ. This is an anniversary robes
of your life starting in a different direction. You look
(00:26):
at it as what reflective, happy anniversary, said anniversary what?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It's not sad because this was the day that changed
my life. This is the day that actually made today
possible and the reason why I actually celebrate it and
don't mind and actually appreciate talking about it because this day,
October first, is the first day of Breast Cancer Awareness Month,
and because of that, I was asked on assignment to
(00:57):
have my first mammogram in a Mamma van in the
middle of Times Square on live national television. And I
didn't want to do it, and I actually said no
multiple times before eventually saying yes. Because I had no
family history of breast cancer. I truly believed that it
couldn't happen to me, and so I didn't feel like
(01:18):
I needed to get a mammogram At the time. The
recommendations were that if you had no family history, you
could wait until you were fifty, So at forty, why
would I walk into a Mamma van and have a mammogram.
I didn't want to do it, but thankfully I did
because that was the day that led to my diagnosis
at the end of this month where I was ultimately
(01:40):
diagnosed with stage two invasive bast CAN.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
But again go back to October first. You look at
it as what I know, people talk about cancer versors,
they talk about other stuff. October first, for.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You is what it was a liberation day because I
was finally by going ahead and going through with this mammogram,
I got information that I needed to then set out
on a path where I could save my own life. Literally,
the power was mine to have only if I knew
(02:08):
what I was dealing with. And I think a lot
of women don't make their appointments. They don't go in
for their mammograms because number one, they don't think it
can happen to them, and number two, they're afraid of
what they might find out. They don't want to know.
Ignorance is bliss, right.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
When was your next mammogram?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, I had been given a prescription at the age
of thirty nine by my obgyn and said you know what,
maybe you should think about doing this. You're coming up
on the age where look, it's disputed as to when
you should go in, but you're around that age. And
I thought, okay, I took that I had a prescription.
I threw it in my purse and it it went
around in there for about, I don't know a few months.
(02:48):
I eventually threw it away and forgot about it. So
I wasn't going to get a mammogram for ten years, Like,
I was not planning on having a test that I
didn't technically need to have, at least according to what
I was hearing recommendations. So why would I get something
that could be painful and definitely would seem annoying if
I didn't have to.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
What decisions have you made in your life after that
diagnosis that you think would have been different had you
never been diagnosed with cancer?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Oh my goodness, I don't think i'd be sitting here
with you.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I know that I wouldn't have run a marathon. I
wouldn't have climbed the mountains I've climbed.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I wouldn't have.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So many things, just how I've reacted to things, friends,
I've chosen to.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Actually let go, and.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Decisions I've made about my time and who I spend
it with. All of that has been significantly impacted by
my cancer Diagnosis's.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Friend's decisions factor into that, has a decision about who's
around you factor into you walking into a van twelve
years ago.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Today, cus I think so often we all take for
granted that we have tomorrow. We don't think about time
as our most precious gift and as a commodity that
we should actually value and really take.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Seriously.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So I think a lot of times I would say
yes to things, yes to people, yes to events, yes
to time spent with folks. So I didn't really enjoy
being around And a lot of it was duty driven
or obligations.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Or I made decisions out of guilt.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But I didn't value my time and I do now
and who, most importantly, who I spend it with, and
how I spend it that and just even just my
overall attitude about the small stuff that can weigh us
all down.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
You remember the first time you laughed about something after
your diagnosis. It took a while, you know, the first
time you genuinely laughed about something.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I don't know what time when I genuinely laughed. But
I can tell you when I genuinely felt some joy,
and you're gonna laugh when I tell you what it was.
I think you'll get it. I think you'll understand. So
when I came finally was released from the hospital after
my double mastectomy, this was in mid November or something
(05:26):
like that, my brother surprised me by showing up at
my apartment when I got back from the hospital, and
it just so happened that when he got there, And
this is one of the few things we share in
terms of our likes. The Conjuring. I had not seen
it came to streaming services, and so I remember all
bandaged up, in significant pain and definitely still on a
(05:49):
little bit of drugs. Eric and I watched the Conjuring together,
and I could get emotional thinking about it because I
remember feeling I laughed, I jumped, I screamed, I forgot,
and for those I don't know, that hour and a half,
however long it runs, I forgot. I didn't think about
what I had just been through and what I was
(06:09):
still facing because chemo was obviously looming ahead of me,
and all sorts of other uncertainties and unknowns. But in
that moment, I was able to just exist and enjoy
the fact that someone else was having a tougher day
than me. They were possessed by demons and I was
just dealing with a medical issue.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Oh no, I mean, if you gave me a choice,
which one demonic possession.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Or breast cancer.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I mean. I have seen them exercise people before the
demon was gone forever.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Oftentimes they don't go well though. It was just it
was a moment where I got to It sounds crazy,
but I in that you know, fear and jump scares
and all of that, and not knowing what's going to happen.
I was taken out of my own horrific reality and
able to actually enjoy another one that was complete.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Make believe you know what.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I would have been looking into doing some science on
horror movies. Okay, just hit on something in particular where
people like to now direct whatever their fear and anxiety
is about life in one direction that's right in front
of them. Whatever that horror movie is, it's all directed there,
and then when it's over there's some sense of relief. Actually,
there's actually folks that argue you can feel better because
(07:25):
you go up, up, up, anxiety and you know it's
going to end.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
That ends in your more relaxed and you feel a
little bit of euphoria.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
So that was actually the first time I felt joy
since my diagnosis was the day I came home and
I watched the Conjuring. So the Conjuring I love regardless,
but it has a special place in my heart in
my breast cancer journey, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
What are you going to tell your daughters about when
they should be screened?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So my oncologist told me that whenever I was diagnosed,
which for me was at the age of forty, although
they do they did say for sure because mine was
a slower growing cancer that I had had it for
a couple of years. But on average, you should have
your daughters be screened ten years before the date of
your diagnosis. So my daughters will have their baseline mammogram
(08:10):
at the age of thirty.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
What do they think of what they said to you
about it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
They are on board with that, and actually we're asking
if they could get it sooner. I think there's a
huge level of fear obviously knowing that their mother had
premenopausal breast cancer with no family history, and I did
not test positive for the Brakawan and bracket two genes,
which is a good thing. But they've been tested as
well and they don't have the gene either, so that's
(08:40):
a little bit of relief, But still there's concern. And clearly,
if you have someone as close as your mother or
your sister or your sibling have breast cancer, you certainly
are at higher risk.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Period.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
So they are all on board with being preventative, and
I know that they're taking their health more seriously, at
least as they get older.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Ava's almost twenty three now.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
She's sending me pictures of her running every day and
she's keto like we are now, so you know, I
think she's starting to realize just the power she has
in terms of her level of exercise, her nutrition, all
of that. And I think analyse will come around eventually.
She's working out, she likes her hot yoga. But I
do think that it's absolutely impacted their decisions, and it
(09:22):
will more so the older they get, the more they're
able to understand what we do know and what we
don't know, and what we can do to prevent something
like this.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Make the connection between walking onto a van twelve years
ago to where you sit now.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Well, I am a completely different person, and I would
even go so far as to say I was arrogant
about my health. I had at that time all my
grandparents still alive, which is fairly remarkable.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
My mom is one of nine, my dad is one
of six.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
And to have looked at all of my family members
at that point, and I don't even know how many
first cousins I have, but it's in the dozens and dozens. Yeah,
you've got these German Catholic families who were trying to
follow the Pope's example at least a few generations ago,
a few generations ago. Yes, that's what happens when you
(10:16):
aren't on birth control. So I have a lot of
family members to compare my situation to, and I just
felt I felt like I couldn't actually have cancer because
I didn't know anyone at that time who did in
my family. And that was an arrogance that I obviously
no longer carry with me, and I think we all
(10:37):
have that. You know, when you're young, you feel invincible.
I felt like I was a runner, and I relatively
took good care of myself. I just felt invincible, and
I certainly don't know, I absolutely understand. I have a
humility about myself. I'm vulnerable in ways that I think
are healthy, because when you recognize that there is no
(10:58):
such thing as security, you act and behave differently.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
No question, again, how did I get you to today?
What twists and turns? And how is your life different?
That's what I was asking and making a connection between
walking onto a van today and where your life has
landed you.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I think all of the decisions, and especially maybe the
little ones fall through the cracks, but the bigger decisions
in my life all now go through the lens of
humility and vulnerability and the fact that I am so
significantly aware that none of us are guaranteed tomorrow. I
(11:42):
will tell you this is something that a lot of
folks don't realize. There are certain kinds of cancers, and
breast cancer is certainly among them. Where you live under
a constant threat of recurrence. When you have a tumor
based cancer, especially a hormonally charged cancer, you recognize that
it could come back. And I received mine. It's called
(12:03):
an ANCA score, and it's your They give you a
number literally that gives you your chance of recurrence low,
medium or high, and mine came in in the higher
echelons of medium, and I remember that day I was
actually at Good Morning America. That was the second most
devastating piece of news. I got past the fact that
I had breast cancer because when I got that ANCA score,
(12:26):
chemo was guaranteed, I knew I had to have six
rounds of it.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
And then now I have to live under this cloud,
this dark cloud.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
That is I actually I know it's figurative, but sometimes
I actually feel like I can see it hanging over
my head, knowing that my cancer could come back. And
so every time you go back for your diagnostics, whether
it's a blood test or just being checked out your
lymph nodes, etc. By your oncologists, you live with this fear,
in this threat that maybe this is the time where
I get the news that I am metastatic. And around
(12:57):
thirty percent of all early stage breast cancer patients become metastatic,
and they can't.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Necessarily know who is going to be.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
They can tell you or at a higher risk, but
ultimately they can't tell you it's gonna come back or
it's not going to It can come back in five years,
ten years, twenty years, thirty years.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Look at Olivia Newton John.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
So every time you hear these stories of these women
who have survived, and then fifteen years later it's back,
twenty years later, it's back. And so that fear was
initially absolutely paralyzing, but then eventually it became motivating.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
And I chose a lot of things, but I chose
us through that lens.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I ask myself sometimes, if I knew my cancer was back,
if I knew I had X amount of years left,
what would I decide then? And if it's different than
what I think I want to do, But when I
look it through that lens, if I have a different answer,
that's the right answer. Because life is short. We're not
here to please other people or to make other people
(13:56):
feel good about our decisions. We're here to love, to learn,
and to value first of our relationship with ourselves and
then with the people who we choose to be around.
I just I don't think I didn't have my priorities straight.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You gotta know.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
More so than I did before. And I'm always I'm
a work in progress. Always, I think that's the big thing.
I'm always trying to do.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Better and be better.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
And I recognize in how many ways I still have
to grow. But that's I think that humility I'm I'm
still working through and working with. But it came to
me it was a gift that I received from cancer
without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
All right. Well, the question I certainly have, and I'm
gonna ask when we come back, is there ever ever
such thing as a good cancer joke? All right, folks,
A lot of a lot laughs in this episode, But
(15:05):
there is a such thing I have seen I've heard before,
cancer humor. Yes, as we continue here on this twelve
year anniversary of robots stepping onto that Mamma Van and
getting that mammogram that led to her diagnosis and really
a change in her life, in the direction of her life,
but robes along the way. I mean you, obviously you
have to laugh to keep them crying. Yes, And obviously
(15:28):
folks who've been diagnosed and their families aren't all walking
around in terrible moods all the time. You find places
for humor. But is there a such thing, first of all,
as cancer humor?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yes, and I highly suggest it. Here's the deal, here's
the caveat. Only the person who actually has had the
cancer can make the joke. No one else should make
a joke. If you haven't walked to that road, if
you haven't walked on that path, if you are not
a cancer survivor, slash Thriver, please don't attempt cancer humor.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Now close we are Nope, you leave it, Nope, leave
it to us. Okay, now the next part of that,
if we leave it to you, then how do we
know how much or even if we can laugh?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
You can totally let Actually, you know what, this is
so funny. I'm hoping maybe in the next month or
two to bring on someone who I was able to meet.
Her name is Rachel and she's a stand up comedian
and she became a stand up comedian while dealing with
metastatic cancer. And she gets up on a stage like
once a week and makes cancer jokes. And she said,
it's true, people don't know if they can laugh. And
(16:36):
she makes it very clear, Please I need you to laugh.
Laugh with me, not at me. But if I'm making
the jokes, it's okay to laugh. I mean you and
I not that this is exactly similar, but you and
I went to that movie American History, Oh yeah, and
there were a lot of jokes that were being made
in jest around Rachel shoes. Yeah, we we were in
(17:02):
the movie theater. You were the only black person a
lot of white folks, and people weren't laughing because they
were afraid to laugh. But I remember thinking, well, I
can laugh because you aren't gonna judge me because it
is funny. But it's one of those things like I
had to look at you, like can I laugh, and
that people around us.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Couldn't laugh because they didn't know you well enough to
look at you. Can we laugh?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
It's similar, Yes, yes, and so yes, it is intentional,
and I do think that's an important part of healing.
They say laughter is the best medicine, and I do
think that we have to be able to laugh. We
have to be able to poke fun at some of
the shit that's handed our way. I mean, we do
that about so many things in life. It's just you know,
(17:44):
you can say you can't say anything about my mother,
but I can't. You know, it's the same, It's the
same rule applies. And I do think that it's helpful
if we can get some perspective and have moments of
levity in the face of really awful moment.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I can't think of what would be a good cancer joke. Like,
I can't see what what what do you poke fun of?
I don't know if you've heard some I'm not putting
you on the spot to remember, but I don't know.
It seems so awkward to think of anything surrounding cancer
to be funny. I know folks can find.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I mean, I think it's I think it's those moments
where like, Okay, my hair is gone, but you know,
you're making a joke about your hair loss, or you're
you know, the fact that you don't have you know,
all of it, like or sorry, excuse me while I
go puke right now, you know, or you know, chemo
brain like you know, Actually it was great because I
would blame stuff on my chemo brain, which actually was legit.
But at a certain point I remember telling the girls,
(18:41):
like telling them to stop fighting, like I'm in the
middle of it and you're gonna actually and they would say, Mom,
how long are you going to pull the cancer card?
Speaker 3 (18:48):
And I was like forever? And then we'd all laugh, like, you.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Know, you just have moments of levity where you're trying
to just acknowledge that this shit is hard, but can
we at least laugh at the absurdity of whatever it
is we were all dealing with or having to work through,
and I think it's actually extremely helpful to.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Be able to do so.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
You still use a cancer card.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Why wouldn't I?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
I mean it's a hell of a house here. You
got the cancer card, I got the black card. We
just smacking each other the cards all day long.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Oh really, well I got one for you. Yes, we
can one off each other. The suffering Olympics.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Well, blank anniversary, I don't know, happy anniversary, but reflective anniversary,
but valuable anniversary and always worth noting. I ever want
to skip over into these moments.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
It's worth noting.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I've always been a big believer in acknowledging anniversaries, even
tough ones, even hard ones, because you can look and
see how far you've come. You can take a moment
to look back at, even if it's something that's devastating
or difficult, the lessons you learned, I mean, those are
all so valuable. There's no point in going through pain
if you can't come out on the other side with wisdom.
(20:02):
And I do think that we look this is so true.
I know you might not know a lot of cancer survivors,
but you know a couple of them. Are they not
some of the most joyful, grateful people you've ever met.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
As soon as you said I was trying to think
of a I didn't have to think of the ones.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I know.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
I'm trying to think of an outlier. I'm trying to
think of somebody.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Who's there's always an outlier.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, but predominantly, I would say ninety five percent of
anyone who any of you know listening who has been
through cancer is going through cancer. Yes, of course there
are dark moments. Yes, of course there are tough times,
but I would argue most of those men and women
have big smiles on their faces, are taking those vacations,
(20:48):
are living out loud. I live my life like a
country music song. I live like I'm dying. We are
all dying. We are all one day closer to our deaths.
So to say I'll do that in a year, I'll
do that in five years.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
You know what, if you can do it now. And
this goes back to some of.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
The quotes of the day that we pick out during
morning run, where it's the advice is to pop that champagne,
pour the expensive wine, burn the candle. You know where
the dress you bought enjoy your life and don't think
or save something for tomorrow or for the next day.
I just the more we live, the older I get,
(21:27):
whether I had had cancer or not. It's funny, I
thought I had this perspective being the journalist that I was,
and that we have covered, you know, death and destruction
like we have, those reminders pounded in on us when
we cover stories and events, like you think, but when
it happens to you, it is a completely different experience
(21:47):
all of a sudden, intellectually what you thought you knew
just to in the depths of your bones, you feel
and you know in a way you couldn't have before.
And so it just it's it's a game changer, you know.
Perspective is is something that is earned, something.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
That is it's not just given.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
You have to go through something to actually really know
what it's like.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Well, happy anniversary anyway, babe.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Thank you. I'm happy to be here, grateful to be
here twelve years later, and
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I'll be grateful for every day after that.
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