Mia Changes Everything!

In this explosive episode, Aubrey sits down with powerhouse attorney—and Real Housewives of Orange County icon—Emily Simpson for a no-holds-barred breakdown of the trial that has everyone talking.

Nothing’s off-limits as the two dive into the game-changing testimony of ‘Mia,’ dissect whether the prosecution is really stacking up a solid RICO case, and finally address the burning question: Why isn’t Aubrey on the stand?

Emily, host of the 'Legally Brunette' podcast, brings her sharp legal insight and trademark wit—and Aubrey? She’s asking what you want to know and holding nothing back. This episode is smart, scandalous, and possibly the most revealing one yet.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Amy and TJ present Aubrey o Day covering the Didty trial.
Hey guys, it's Aubrey O'Day.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome back to the coverage of the Diddy trial, brought
to you by TJ and Amy. I am so excited.
I know I always am excited about my guests, but
I have a very, very established attorney who has got
her own show with her husband on iHeartRadio called Legally
Burnette Emily. I have to say as one single non lawyer,

(00:30):
but think she is to one very housewifed up attorney
who is legit.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
I am so happy to finally be talking this case
with you.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
I really want to get into me a bombshell this week,
bombshell for the prosecution.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
You know, I'm excited to talk to you too, because
obviously my husband and I have been covering the trial.
We do a lot of legal analysis, you know, we
break it down. We talked about testimony, you know, we
talk about Rico and what he's actually being charged with
and whether the prosecution is meeting those burdens. But I
will tell you it's very interesting for me as a
lawyer to talk to you because it's not very often

(01:06):
that I actually get the opportunity to talk to someone
who has personal experience with a legal issue that we're
discussing and that we're analyzing.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
So this is a win win for both of us.
So yes, I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
I can't wait. You can teach me how to catch
your husband, teach me the law, all right, but we'll
work on that, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
So with Mia, I just want to first establish two
days of testimony.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
She still is going to be in cross on Monday.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
We ended today with Brian Steel cross examining her.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
For those that don't know, Brian Steele.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Is in most cases probably one of the best most
effective lawyers on Diddy's side, and probably this was one
of the worst crosses in the entire trial for me personally.
It ventured over into victim blaming, which at this point
I think Dawn the therapist is established for the most part,
everybody's kind of established.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
People that are victims.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Do go back to their abusers, They do have shame
in their stories, They do go back to things that
are familiar in order to just forget and not and
pretend like it didn't happen, in order to find normalcy again.
This contact back with abusers, this you know, wanting to
work back with them or communicate with them. It's a
nothing burger for me at this point. If that's all

(02:26):
you have, then you don't have much.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
Well, I would agree with that, and I would say
that's basically what the defense has, and that's what they're
going to focus on on every single way forward. It's
always to be why did you stay, why were you
there so long? Why did you engage? Why did you
come back? Why did you keep showing.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
Up for work?

Speaker 3 (02:43):
And I thought it was really important that the prosecution
did put Dawn on, who I can't remember is she psychiatrists?

Speaker 1 (02:50):
She's a clinic forensic psychology segment.

Speaker 4 (02:53):
Right, and we know she also testified and the ambramber Johnny, Yeah, right,
So but I thought it was really important that they
brought her forward.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
And I'm sure you probably agree with that, because that's
the question that the jury has is why did people
continue to go back? Why did they stay, why did
they show up for work the next day? Why did
they assistance spend years? And so it was important for
her to come on. But you have your own personal
experience in that realm as well.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, And for me personally, you know, I was fired
on national television after years and years of leading up
this band for being raunchy and promiscuous and bad for business,
which none was true. I wish at the time we
were in an era where things like me Too, and
a lot of movements now that have occurred where you

(03:41):
can go against corporations and you can sue people for
wrongful termination, and it is something that feels more available
to us. Back then, even with parents' lawyers and very
established lawyers surrounding me, no one gave me that idea.
And now, of course I'm past the statute of limitations.
But I have seen what happens when you don't do
what he wants and you get fired and you get blacklisted,

(04:02):
and I experienced blacklisting, and I know what that looks like.
It's very real, the threat that everyone is saying about
not wanting to be well, I got to the other
side of it, and it's real. It's actually a real thing,
and it does happen, and it's humiliating and shameful, and
half of it I put out of my head, and
half of it I'll wake up out of my sleep
sometimes in cringe that I was in that position and

(04:22):
I didn't understand even that it was all designed just
to humiliate me a step further?

Speaker 4 (04:28):
Right?

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Wait, I can I ask a question because I think
this is ironic what I was listening to you talk?
Weren't you poised as the sexy one?

Speaker 4 (04:36):
Wasn't that? Weren't they? Wasn't it?

Speaker 3 (04:39):
The intent was to establish you as like the pretty
the sexy one, and then you end up getting fired
for being like the sexy one?

Speaker 4 (04:45):
Was that the do I?

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Really?

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (04:47):
And also how funny is it I get end up
being fired for being raunchy and promiscuous and that's.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Bad for business.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
If it's bad for business, well then did he must
be really bad for business because we all know that
he likes a little raunchy and promiscuous At this point.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Well, it seemed to work well for his business, actually,
because the fan has done it.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
For years and years and years and years and years
and is a billionaire.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
And that part right there for me is where I'm
at with this. I'm very I feel very strong after
me as testimony about what has been proven, and let
we'll get into that as we continue, But beyond that,
I'm really interested in systematic changes. You know, I talked
about Capricorn's testimony I would have liked it to go
a little bit further into details of who made payments

(05:30):
to her, and let's establish a few more people.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Because there are the trail is.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
You got to remember that this man was still in
order to stay at the levels and operate at the
levels of destruction that he was operating at for so long,
you have to have your pockets continuing to be fed.
You have to have the whole establishment basically behind you.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
Now, how much.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
People's knowledge of things were is always something that I assess,
but you know, my first hand knowledge of when I
was around, there were people that saw plenty of things,
and plenty of things kind of been stopped by very
big people. And they continued on. It continued on. They
fired me, and I even had to go back to
Reunion and get beat up some more under those same
terminology statements, everyone knowing damn well that those things aren't true.

(06:17):
I had to play the character of that, and they
just allowed me to get lashing after lashing. They created
a narrative that I could never get up under and
in fact had to play into for most of my career.
I am definitely not sexy or pretty in my head.
I've learned how to be according to society standards, because unfortunately,
that's the lane that I was left with, and that

(06:40):
was the only opportunity I had when I left. Everybody
pretended like there were opportunities and music in there, but
really all of those turned out to be rooms that
were built to humiliate and make me walk away in
very big, deep amounts of shame and feeling like I
wasn't good enough and like a loser, and not understanding
that all of that more orchestrated and controlled. And then

(07:02):
the only person that came to me with a real
big opportunity was Hugh Hefner to do the cover of Playboy.
And then that's how you end up going down a
lane that doesn't necessarily feel like you.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
But there's a lot of limitations in my contract.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
My mom's a good lawyer, so I didn't have to
show anything I didn't want to show. And you know,
you in chovern to the pictures that are painted for you.
I'm sure even as a reality TV person, you've had
painted pictures of you created either by your cast members
or by editing or producers. They're all involved, and you've
had to find ways to sometimes lean in and sometimes
absolutely establish No.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah, well, I would also say when you were going
through that, that was a different time period. And I
think that it was now because of all these women
that have come forward like Cassie and there's been women
before her, and with the Me Too movement, I think
women are more empowered now to stand up for themselves
and to say I'm not comfortable doing that, that's not right.
The problem is is that this was early two thousands

(07:58):
for you, right, And I don't think that you had
anyone advocating on your behalf. And when we talk about
Diddy and we talk about this trial and we talk
about the prosecution, you're absolutely right when you say that
this was a whole network of people that knew what
was going on. And clearly there were deep pockets, there
were people being paid, there were people turning away.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
What I loved getting back to the testimony with Mia
is she is the first witness to establish a different
pattern of behavior in regards to sexual abuse. This isn't
a girlfriend, This isn't somebody that wanted to be a girlfriend.
This is somebody that was an employee. This was somebody
that was raped in ways where she's in a closet

(08:38):
packing his suitcase and he's got his dick out and
forcing it in her mouth.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Allegedly.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
This isn't the standard freak off staged event that's going on.
And we're now venturing into other territories of other abusive
types of behavior. The force is still there, like in
every other case, the coercion is still there. Basically, everything
he did, from making her live into in his home,

(09:06):
the not eating, not not being able, working ridiculous amount
of days, four or five days straight, all of that
was very standard.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
We went through that too.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
I mean, to me, I just felt like, this is
what it is when you are working at.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
This powerful of a level.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
It wasn't until I worked at that powerful of a
level with that even more powerful essentially sometimes people that
I realized, oh, these motherfuckers take a lot of breaks.
Y'all are a little bit late in all honesty. Presidents, sir,
you're a bit late. You're an apprentice. I mean, the
work ethic was way different over this side. But I
learned that actually people do get water and bathroom breaks

(09:40):
and food at lunch, et cetera. That's was just not
something that that that.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
We were used to.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
But as far as Mia goes she's a critical witness
because unlike the other two government victims, this is just
not a former romantic partner. This is an employee. She
was sexually abused allegedly. They're victim blaming her on the
cross and it's not really working for me.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
It absolutely doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
You know, you always have to wonder if there's that
one person in the jury that just doesn't understand. But
then again, you never know. They always surprise you. As
kind of what every attorney has always told me along
the way. Mia, in regards to Rico, I feel she's
established that in a big way.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
So you because I've worried. My worry in this case
is establishing Rico.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
So I was.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Feeling up until this point where you're saying when Mia
comes in and again I don't know if we establish
this already, but me as a pseudonym. So that is
not her real name.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
No, that's not a real name.

Speaker 4 (10:36):
I was wondering if you know who she is?

Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yes, yes, so you know her personally and you've met
her before or had interactions with her before.

Speaker 4 (10:46):
Yes, And what do you.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Think I want to know your opinion on this. What
is do you think is her reasoning for using a
pseudonym because clearly she's sitting in court across from him.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
He knows who she is.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
I assume it's just to keep her name out of
the press. However, at some point it's going to be
released and it's going to get out there. There's no
way you can keep that secret for a long period
of time.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
So to me, it's just let me say this. You'd
be really surprised. I did a search to see how
easy it was to figure out who she was based off.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Of just her testimony alone. In regards to her work profile, right,
it's wiped.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Oh wow, really.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
It is wiped. It's not on the Revolt site. It's
completely wiped off of all of that. I have people
news friends that work for very big news sources that
all are still don't know who she is. They could
describe her to me because they're in court seeing her.
I already know who she is, but I would never
tell anyone who she is. But I am super impressed

(11:48):
with how she really has been able to be the
glue that has connected a lot of these pieces together
because she provides a different a different experience within the
same being able to validate Cassie's experiences being able to
validate a lot of people's experiences also though, being able

(12:08):
to widen the gap of what an employee witnessed and
had to go through in that she was carrying drugs,
she was around criminal behavior constantly, she was assaulted, there
was force, there was coercion, and there was criminal behavior
going on allegedly the entire time. And I didn't see
Brian Steele doing his magic at all. And if anyone

(12:31):
could be magical in this moment, it would be him.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
He's very good at what he does.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Right, And you have to remember, just everyone out there listening.
The prosecution has to prove Rico, which means that they
have to prove that Diddy worked as a criminal enterprise
and that he was at the top, and that all
of his employees were working together for a unified benefit
of this criminal enterprise. And so far, when you have
Cassie testifying and you have some personal assistance testifying, it

(12:56):
was like, I don't know, are we establishing a criminal enterprise?

Speaker 2 (13:00):
What can you Can you explain to me what criminal
enterprise legally means?

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Can it be?

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Because what I've what I understand about RICO was created
for the mob families is to take that those situations down.
But in the past couple of years from what I
understand that it's really been stretched and utilized in other
cases in different ways, and you've been able to establish
smaller corporations run by one big.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Lead and less people.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
They've been able to utilize it and win in cases
that don't look as aggressive as a mob case would.
And so I really want you to explain to the
audience how small it could actually be and and still
have this successful RICO charge like exem and and R Kelly.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Can you can talk about those two.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
R Kelly was that's one person at the top there
was benefiting from a lot of things that had a
lot of people around him doing criminal things, moving people,
and he got charged. So tell me how low the
bar can be and still get a conviction in regards
to people.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
Well, you know, it's actually it defines RICO defines and
enterprise a criminal enterprise. It's actually defined very broadly, which
is good because we don't want to have a very
narrow scope on it. And it's really just a business
or a group of people that are based in criminal activity.
And really it's you have to have two criminal acts
within a ten year time period. So I feel like

(14:17):
there were a check right, check right, exactly, and it's
for one common just you know, one common unified goal,
which is Ditty at the top and whatever it is.

Speaker 4 (14:28):
That he can.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
And also the one common, one common thread too is
who was paying everybody, and that is bad Boy Cassie
was doing. She said her full time job became being
a girl in the freak Offs doing sex work, but
she was paid under bad Boy with the same payment
that an artist waiting for ten albums to come out
would be being paid. But she wasn't making albums. She

(14:50):
was doing sex work and that was expected of her.
Those payments were coming from bad Boy. MIA's payments were
coming from bad Boy. Capricorn's were coming from bad Boy. Allegedly,
all of the abuse was under Diddy and bad Boy
was his corporation.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
Right, And of course they had kid cutting testify to
the arson and burglary.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
And kidnapping with Capricorn.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
Exactly, because there you have you're establishing not only is
there the sex acts and the sex trafficking, but then
you have the burglary or you have the arson, So
you're establishing obviously more than two criminal acts within a
ten year time period.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
So, you know, do you feel that it's been that
the burden has been met just right now today?

Speaker 4 (15:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
I mean, I think so it really depends on how
savvy the jury is. And I really feel like there's
gonna First of all, we're only in week three of testimony,
so obviously there's going to be more people that testify,
and then it really comes down to prosecution when they
do their closing arguments to actually tie it all together
for the jury so that they understand how all these
people were involved, how they were paid, and how they

(15:59):
were all you in this criminal enterprise for his benefit.
And I think that they'll be able to do that
once we have more witnesses.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Well, what kind of witnesses are you you personally still
wanting to see because I have to take the jury
and the possibility that somebody just doesn't get it on
the jury out of my head because there's so many
people that don't get it anymore in our society. I'm
scared to death about that. But if we put all
of that aside, and you who is credible and understands
this and understands the testimony.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
And is well versed. What more do you need to see?

Speaker 4 (16:32):
You know, I would like more, I wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
I would like security to come forward, bodyguard bodyguards and
say I protected him, this is what I saw, I
took these payments.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
I just something, just a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
I mean, in my mind, Rico's established. I'm just saying
on a jury. Have they established it yet? I don't know,
but we still have weeks of testimony, and obviously I'm
also it surprises me that you weren't summoned, you know.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
I think because so at there's a piece of my story.
There's pieces of my story that I can't speak about
because I have an exclusivity in a different situation. And
that was done prior to even understanding that any of
this type of justice was going to be something that
was available and real in my lifetime.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
So a lot of us went.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
In a direction to hope to seek justice with somebody
that felt like they were going to get to the
bottom of it. Now that we're getting it to the
bottom of it in front of the world that have
been allowed to do this, you know, but without sharing
my full story. So it's hard to get into that part.
But I will say, you'd have to remember. If something
were to have happened to you, you'd have to remember

(17:43):
it in order to sit on the stand and discuss it, right,
So that would be a reason someone would be summoned.
If somebody witnessed something and you didn't remember it, or
you had no recollection of it, then you wouldn't necessarily
be a valuable witness.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
As far as like the beatings and things like that.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
A lot of the stuff that is being spoken about,
and a lot of the really bad stuff was happening
during a dirty money era of the run, and that
was after I was already fired.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
So you're saying a little pre maybe a little your
experience was before it really started to take off into
some of.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
These in my opinion, allegedly it was taken off in
the nineties. But in regards to you know, these are
very specific criminal charges and you'd have to really be
able to bolster very specific criminal situations. And I have

(18:44):
never been a willing participant in anything criminal.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
Okay, let me ask you a question, did you were
you aware of these alleged I guess they're not alleged
because they're on tape and we've seen them. But these
freak offs when you had your experience, was that something
that you had heard of, that you saw, that you witnessed,
that you knew about.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
I don't think I can get into that territory, but.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
I believe a lot of people that got close enough
to that enterprise understood the sexual behavior that was occurring
around them. It was very It's like they say that
prison is more gossipy than West Hollywood during the weekends.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
The gays out for brunch during the weekends, and West Hollywood.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Bad Boy was a gossip mill of and everybody loved
to share their videos and their times and their experiences
and their knowledge of things from.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
All sides of it.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
And so, I mean you could see right when this
came down how many bodyguards came forward and were just
openly discussing the butt plug size they would buy for him, untildo, this, that,
this that. I mean, it was like Jesus, like within
two days you had every bodyguard talking like low level,
silly gossip stuff that he's not on trial for his sexuality.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
I didn't take what I didn't love.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
That's why I'm nervous about the bodyguard situation, because there
were so many that have come forward that have been
in the documentaries and that are also problematic themselves. They
would have to have been given immunity. I definitely spoke
to one that was willing to take immunity.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
You know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
You don't know what happens beyond your personal interaction with
Homeland Security. They don't give you information. If they find
something out, they do not tell you. They don't share information.
There's nothing that is you're not having like that. They're
very kind and and and compassionate and good people that are,
you know, good actors of the law, but they don't

(20:46):
they don't shed light on your experience for you.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
I know that there is a lot of talk about
whether they're going to show the Goff videos during the trial.
Now the question is does that help secution or does
that hurt the prosecution. I guess it really depends upon
how much they show what they show, But if they
show it in a way where people are like, Okay,

(21:20):
that's crazy, but it's just a bunch of adults that
consented to this. I've heard that Dinny actually on these videos.
I don't know if this is true, this is alleged.
This is what I've heard that he WoT that he
actually makes a disclaimer in the beginning before any of
these freak offs start and say, if there's anyone that
doesn't want to be here, you can leave. So I
don't know if that's true. That's just allegedly, do you

(21:40):
know anything about that.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
He clearly was very aware that what he was doing
was criminal, in my opinion, because he was having Cassie
set it all up, like if you wanted to pick
which guys dix and which guy's colors and which guy's
sizes you liked. Instead of giving her a fucking eight
page recite, why didn't you just go on the side
and pick them out and make a phone call. He

(22:04):
was having her go get the photos, show him the picture,
show him the people, get the information, go over, give
her the money.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
She goes and pays. Don't look at him, just do
what I say.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
But it's like everything was It's like he was always
passing off the control to other people. Shiit Mia was
carrying around his drug pit purse allegedly with all of
his colorful pills in it like it's it's it's like
every he had to have some knowledge that what was
going on, in my opinion, Allegedly that was going on

(22:36):
was was conal was criminal or else, he would have
been a little bit more hands on and a little
less like establishing. I don't know how much time and
the and the man that I knew and understood him
to be.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
He was on the go, he's moving.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
It's it almost is giving a bipolar jump in personalities
and moods and shifts and everything.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
It just stand up and go out.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Don't know if that's drug field, if it's a mental
health condition, I don't know. Allegedly, whatever it is, it
was very shifty. But that being said, you'd think that,
like if someone's that shifty and that on the move,
that they would just make calls themselves on certain things.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
But he was very careful to not do that. He
was careful with Cutty to be.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Out of the house by the time Cutty gets back.
He's careful at Soho house to tell him what.

Speaker 4 (23:23):
Do you mean right?

Speaker 3 (23:25):
He's also careful that he has someone under his direction
actually put the cocktail in the car and commit the arson.
It's not him, He's not the one cutting the convertible open.

Speaker 4 (23:36):
But you know, I thought the same thing as that.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Jay might have flipped the man who did allegedly and
you can go down a nice, dark, dirty YouTube hole
if you'd like to. One night, I'll come over for
drinks like Little fives moment, except that you are too.
But but you could go down a nice little YouTube
tunnel of understanding. Back in the day, people that came
forward and said that they were prostitutes for Cassie and Puff,

(24:00):
and they name people that he'd talk to on phone
calls in front of him allegedly. And when a time
where people are very charged, I just optics wise, I
thought certain things would be different. And he was saying
to me, I was like, has it changed? Do lawyers
not care about like justice anymore? Is it really just
about the money grabs? And he's like, you know, it's
it's both. Some lawyers really want to make money and

(24:23):
some lawyers really are after that pursuit. You can get
disenfranchised enough in a career as an attorney when you're
after the pursuit to stop caring about the pursuit and
want to fucking you know.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
He's a yeah, he's like some AU.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
I was like, tell me specifically about AAU says, And
he was like, some aussays are are have got that?
I don't care what the payment is I want to
be I want to be in the most prestigious position
to fight for justice for people. And He's like, and
some realize that after doing this job for a certain
period of time, they're going to get a great corporate
gig that pays a lot of fucking money when they
settle out and want to go out away from that job.

(24:59):
I didn't understand from that vantage point, but I was
trying to get a read on because so much of
this is going to be about the jury and the lawyers,
and so little of it is about the people on
the stand when it all when I watched the Netflix
special of Ojay's trial, and it was Johnny Cochran and
all the lawyers basically just tattling on how they manipulated
everything and everyone to get to the end, and they.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Were so proud of their legal prowess and being around
lawyers and some that people.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Can come in a room and be high fiving someone
they know is a fucking criminal just because they did
a better job at convincing everyone in the room.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
That's like, I want to grab my pearls.

Speaker 4 (25:32):
I don't like I know, I agree with you. At
the end of the day, it comes down to theatrics.
A lot and a lot of a.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
Trial is nothing more than who is the more convincing attorney,
who plays the part better, Who does the jury like better,
who's more likable, who's more attractive.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
The most important part of this entire trial was jury
selection period. Absolutely, that is the most important part of
this trial. And imagine how much incredible testimony has been
has been put on the record during this time period,
a very short time period, as you said, Yet the
most important thing was jury selection, and they had some

(26:10):
very strong people on the defense side choosing juries. And
of course ausas are very good at what they do
as well.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
So you just you got a hope.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
But I you know, a more male jury than female
scares me a bit.

Speaker 4 (26:23):
Yeah, I agree with that.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
You know, let me ask you another question, because there's
been a lot of talk about this victim number three,
who supposedly is named Gina, that now they can't find
to testify.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
She's she's it's not that she can't be found, she's tweeting,
right from what I From what I understand, she she's
sent out a tweet just saying she doesn't she wants
to be private. Now you can go down a YouTube
spiral again, you can find the interview that she gave
on a radio show discussing stomping a baby out of
her paint, trying to pay her for an abortion that

(26:54):
she willingly had because she didn't want to take his
money because she loved him. She's more of a soft
spoken sweet girls. It doesn't seem like she had any
career aspirations.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Was she a girlfriend or just someone that she wasn't
someone that worked? Did she work for him or was
she a girlfriend?

Speaker 1 (27:11):
No, no, working for him.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
I don't know what to call his girlfriend or not,
because he just seems to have thrown that around.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
Loosely, right, loosely.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, I don't even know that anyone was a girlfriend
because I think in order to call someone your girlfriend,
you have to care for them. And I don't know
how much consideration was given to any of these people allegedly,
so I don't love that word. But no, she was
not working for him. She was not a worker at
bad Boy. But they are going to establish medical records

(27:41):
with a victim that is coming up. There was some
talk in a sidebar that they had about some type
of medical records and it's being alluded to that there's
likely going to be a conversation about abortion, that there
is still a victim that is coming forward and speaking
that we have not heard from yet.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
I believe that's the is that the Jane, that is
who they're Jane that's coming up Jane.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
But I think more so what ends up happening in
a situation like that where somebody gets nervous at the
at the at the final point because their name is
about to be out there and they don't want that,
so they want to then not come, I think a
way to get because I think if you're subpoena and
you don't show up, that's you go to jail for that,
I believe.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Is that correct?

Speaker 4 (28:21):
Yeah, that's why the defense attorney I.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Think they didn't pursue it, and I think they didn't
make a thing because I think that they probably did
get in touch with the women the women were prop allegedly,
and the women were probably like, listen, I'm not going
to help you out if I get.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
Up there, right, and then they don't want to take
that risk, so it's better to just not.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
You don't want to take a risk if if you
paid attention in the media, they said one of the
victims dropped out. She never wanted to participate in any
of it. She didn't want to talk to onland security,
she didn't want to be a part of the trial.
Who leaked that it certainly wasn't the prosecution, It certainly
wasn't pr for the AUSA. Her publicists or her people
leaked out that story that she wanted no parts because

(29:01):
she probably wanted to signal whoever to let them know
I wasn't going to tell on you.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
Daddy, right exactly? So what else did you really allegedly?
What else did you take away from me as testimony
that you thought was interesting or was compelling for you?

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Shit? Let mean, oh well, here's just a sidebar.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
It's becoming very obvious that he paid women way less
than he paid men. George Kaplan was given six figures.
Capricorn and Mio were both paid her on I think
they said forty thousand, fifty thousand. That was interesting, and
they also were all harassed and abused.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
I had a question to ask you because you have
personal experience with them, and I thought this is random,
but I found this interesting that I think on two
different occasions it has come up in testimony that I
think it was Gina, but I don't. It wasn't Gina testifying,
but it was someone testifying to an incident where apparently
Diddy threw apples at Gina, and then Mia was testifying.

(29:58):
I believe yesterday that he through spaghetti at her, and
I just was like, it was the food items that I.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
Thought, and there were a god and they okay, right,
and I was like, allegedly allegedly, but what is that?
Is that a form of humiliation or a lack of.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Any type of control at all, that no matter what
is on the surface of a countertop, that you will
just reach for it and assault someone.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, basically, yeah, I don't Maybe he just happened to,
you know, eat more than he ever let us eat.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Maybe there just was food was the most readily available
thing around. Maybe it has to do with comdowns or
come ups and when you're hungry and when your moods
get bad and when they who knows, But there's no
I don't think there's anything specific.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
To the food being thrown. It just happened to have
been what was there.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
I just found that interesting that in this testimony, like
food keeps coming up.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
It was like, well, we certainly didn't have any when
we worked for it, So I'm glad somebody was being
said somebody's somebody's getting spaghetti. At this point, I don't
see any possible way after this testimony that twelve people
unanimously agree to acquit him.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
I don't see it happening at all.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
How do you feel, I don't even see a path
for twelve people acquitting him on all charges. It's not
even I don't even see it at all.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
You're the one with a degree. Do you see any
lane for that?

Speaker 2 (31:27):
No?

Speaker 4 (31:28):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
I think I think the testimony has been too compelling.
I think the repetition of the repeated behaviors. It's not
like he got drunk one night and you know he
went all he went off the rails, which can happen
to people. I think it's a long established, repeated behavior,
over and over and over, and it goes down. I mean,

(31:49):
it boils down to the fact that he's a cruel
man's it's cruelty. It's about power, it's about corrosion, it's
about it. It's evil, it's cruel and I think I
don't think the jury can get past that.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Can you give the definition legally in Layman's terms.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
I suppose for the audience about what coercion is, because
half the people I talk to can't even say the
word correctly, and I think people just are too embarrassed
to ask.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
I don't really know what that means.

Speaker 4 (32:13):
Oh my gosh, I don't know. If I could give.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
The chattypt it my CHATGYPG loves me it gets back
to there.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
I mean, i'd have to actually google. The legal definition
of coersion.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Is the legal definition of coercion, Okay, The legal definition
of coercion generally refers to the use of force, threats,
or intimidation to compel someone to act against their will.
Key elements of coercion threat or use of force.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
They've proved it.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Lack of con lack of consent. They've proved it intent.
The perpetrator intends to control or manipulate the person the
victim's decision making.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
That's there.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
They've proved that resulting action the victim performs in act
or refrains from one that they otherwise wouldn't have done freely.
They've proved all key elements of coersion with multiple witnesses.

Speaker 4 (33:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
Absolutely, And even when people are acting as the defense
would claim willingly because they're showing up or they're carrying things,
or they're carrying out these these demands. If they claim,
like with free will, there isn't free will. You know
that there's no free will. You know that there's repercussions later.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
I don't know that I've ever really had free will
my entire career. Sadly, if you made me think for
a second as you were saying that, I definitely could
like bob my head, yes for them making the band aids.
But there's always somebody controlling your narrative. And as you
get further, I mean, I've been doing this since I
was a kid, and I'm forty one now, so over

(33:54):
two decades I've been in the industry and haven't had
another job. There is always somebody bigger than the person
you thought was the biggest.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
There is always some uniform plan.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
There is always a schedule and a time and a
place and the right thing to say and the right
person to say it. And when you get your shot,
you go, and if you don't, you don't. And I
don't know that I've ever just been People see me
as someone that is so confident and they love to
jump on the train the second that this all came

(34:28):
down and say, Aubrey told us so. She told us
so for twenty years. She's been telling us he was
a dangerous person. He wasn't somebody that was safe to
work for. And like that's great and all. And I
guess that whatever has decided that I am somebody that
is going to be a voice. I mean, I'm a
voice right now on this platform for this.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
But I don't know how free the will is of anything, really, because.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
A lot of times I feel the system already has
decided things. So I just like, I think the jury
is a piece of this puzzle. That is just who
they are as people and how they are going to
interpret the information that they have been given. They are
just going to interpret it as so we can't really

(35:15):
make a call for them. I mean, I know that
they give you jury instructions. I've never personally sat on
a jury, but I think you have to be able
to like check off boxes yes or no, to like
walk you to an answer if you're having a problem.
So they will have to hold themselves a bit accountable.
I'm assuming, but I don't know. You know, I didn't
there was no part of me that thought oj didn't

(35:37):
kill on Nicole, but yet he wasn't convicted.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
Yeah, that's mind blowing.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Let me tell let's talk about a world where that happens. Now.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
You know, one thing I've had a little slight fear
of is and I've made a clear in documented form
just in case it happened, so that the record could
show I was right again. But it worries me that
politics and entertainment tend to mirror each other pretty pretty closely.
We've seen a lot of things happening politically lately that

(36:09):
are like chalking. Whether you like someone or don't like someone,
there's a lot of movements that are just like what chaotic?

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, I did not think that that could happen, whether
I like you or not. I didn't think all that
could happen.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Now over here, What if there's a scenario where I
didn't think that that could happen. In the beginning, before
MIA's to me, I am standing steady on ten toes
after Mia. Before Mia, I thought maybe the prosecution might
feel they get to a place where they've proven one,
three and four but not two and five, and they

(36:42):
might give a plea and we might see a trial
this big and a person this big take a plea,
and what the jury felt doesn't really even matter, because
they can all the way up until the jury comes back,
if they feel that there's any point that they're losing on,
they can offer a plea. And that's not something that
I think anyone sees reg and so they don't necessarily
even understand that that is a possibility.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
It's a possibility, but I'll tell you just based upon
the little that I know of him, I don't think
he would take a plea deal.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Well, he didn't take the first one, but I think
after me he should start considering it.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
It's looking pretty bad.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
But when someone has been in the world that he's
been in, with people catering to his every whim, you
don't think like a rational, reasonable person. You think that
you're always going to win and you're always going to
get away with it.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
I don't even think he's had enough time to process
the level of colossal destruction that he has created across
so many lives. I don't even think he started at
that yet, because he was still in court in the
very beginning, having his lawyers fight to get Cassie's husband
taking out talking about the husband sent him threatening messages

(37:55):
threatening him twenty however, many years ago, threatening him that
you know, after he found out what happened to Cassie,
and my client's life was threatened, so he can't be
in court next to him. Are you fucking kidding me?
There's not a day in Diddy's life that he was
scared of Alex.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
Fine.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, that was a maneuver to get to make Cassie
weaker and to not be able to have somebody to
connect with on that stand in my opinion, and I think,
you know, that's a good lawyering move, but a shitty
moral move, which is why again I don't love lawyers
that are big defense criminal defense lawyers and situations like this,

(38:30):
it's an icky.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
I respect them because they're really good at what they do.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
The eight pack of white women was effective racially. I
know a lot of people that were like, why all
white women? That's not a good look. I don't like
the way this feels. I felt it even and I
was scared to say it, but I was like, I mean,
it shouldn't come down to race. It should come down
to who's most qualified to take on a case.

Speaker 4 (38:50):
But Optics are everyone.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
I know, well, optics are everything in a courtroom. Everyone.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
When they saw Cassie's pregnant belly, everyone was like, damn it,
he'd better come with more than gray hair.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Well, you know, the defense made a motion that they
didn't want Cassie.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Them to be able to see her belly.

Speaker 4 (39:08):
Yes, they wanted her seated before the jury came into.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
I know, there were a lot of little tactics that
showed me, Okay, he's still either the lawyers are just.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Really good in telling him what to do.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
I don't know the fact that he's throwing love hearts
and all of that bullshit. Still like, I just can
you show us a signal of accountability so if you
do get off on anything, like, all the people that
have been in your path of destruction can feel like
safe staying alive on this earth.

Speaker 4 (39:39):
Here's another question, And I feel like this maybe.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Feeds into his narcissism or ego or whatever you want
to call it.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
The fact that he has his children sitting in the courtroom.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
I already said this on the very first podcast is mind.

Speaker 4 (39:55):
Boggling to me, mind boggling.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
What I've asked every type of every time race age
range of man that I know, would you want your
would you want or even allow if it meant you
could look better in front of a jury? Would you
let your daughters hear about how you were slipping, slurping,
slapping and popping it off every which.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Way in the freak offs?

Speaker 2 (40:17):
And every single man that I've spoken to, every single race,
every single age range, was like absolutely not no, zero no.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
For me, I think it's a choice.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Yes, and would you not be completely embarrassed? And that's
what makes me think that this is truly someone who's
so narcissistic that they have no concept of what they've
done that they would allow their children and their mom.
What's his mom like eighties something or I don't know,
like his elderly mom to be.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
You have you done any research on his mom and
what her work was and things like that.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
I don't know anything about his mom. Is that another
rabbit hole that I need to go down?

Speaker 4 (40:56):
I'm laying in.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Bed, probably allegedly probably allegedly, Okay, all right, but I
think you know, I think for me, and this is sound,
this is going to sound crazy because I don't even
think it's a smart legal thing to do. But he's
so down and out with the testimony. At this point,
I feel all of the key things have been established,

(41:17):
from racketeering to sex trafficking to definitely possessing people across
state lines.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Those are all five counts.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
I think at this point you need to tell a
very strong tale of how hurt people hurt people. I'm
gonna need to know how he was hurt and why
he hurt others, and I still would have to call
him guilty because the facts of the crimes are the
facts of the crimes.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
But at least if.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
I heard, maybe if I were a jury member that
doesn't understand facts and crimes, if you told me why
this hurt person hurt people and his hurt was so
deep that.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
It fucked me up.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Those are the times where I've had sympathy for him
along the way prior to getting into everyone's testimony, just
based off of my general assessment of the time that
I was in and knowledge of the times where I
was not in but had very reliable people that were
in it along the way telling me everything.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
So you're saying the only way that you would feel
any ounce of sympathy is if there was some testimony
that went to him being hurt so severely.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
I don't know. I'm I was able to have sympathy
at the beginning of the trial. I'm not getting it anymore.
It's not in me. No, no, no, I'm out none none.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Now we're now, we're getting into territory where the alleged
sexual assaults are looking different than staged events.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yeah, they're looking just.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Like as also Cassie alleged rape. That scares me deeply
for all the unknowns in my own life.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
U we're breaking patterns.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Now, we're going into territories that are different, and that
concerns me.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
I've lost the.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Compassion card in the beginning when you have eighty civil
suits and a lot of chaos, and I know some
a good amount of the players, and I know you know.
I had a bandmate that took the stand and it
was heavily reported that she was inconsistent and a lot
of her testimony. You know, I've known her to be inconsistent.
So imagine prior to all of this, knowing I believe

(43:29):
this person is inconsistent in the experiences that I've had
with her, unfortunately a good amount.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
So did you think did you think her testimony helped
her hurt the prosecution.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
I think it did nothing if I'm being nice, If I'm.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Being like you, judge, it hurt a little.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
It was the wrong It was the wrong thing right
after Cassie to have somebody. The thing that I didn't
love is the inconsistencies came within the depositions that the
prosecution took. They didn't even have to bring up anything
on her that they may have had.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
Right, So you're saying, why bring it up if it's
going to be an inconsistent statement, and then your witnesses
doesn't look credible in court, and Cassie.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Was believable to everybody that left the.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Court room and talked to me.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
So I don't think we needed and we didn't need
to double down on the fact that she got hit
because there's a video of her beatings. Everybody knows what
the beating looks like. We can't get it out of
our souls.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
Yeah, what's your take on that video? Who do you
think leaked it? Do you think it was someone in.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
I can't see on the hotel side, I can't say.

Speaker 4 (44:30):
Well, here's what's interesting.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Is that there is a group of us.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
I keep trying to get them to be able to
be on the podcast with me, you know, because this
started almost about two years ago. For a lot of us,
and all the things that people were being shocked by
in the past two years, we knew very.

Speaker 4 (44:46):
Long lin some of them.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Yeah, some of it we've known since we've been there.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Other things we've known when down, dude, we know every
graphic detail. No, but we knew plenty of I knew
a few of the prostitutes.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
I knew the person that owns the place it was
giving the.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Prostitutes to the that they were calling. I knew one
of the prostitutes was in prison. It was on Jigglos allsurely.

Speaker 4 (45:08):
The guy that killed his girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Yeah, and he said he told them no, it's not true.
But then his face was up on.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
That posterboard in court and I was like, that's into Wait,
are you.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
Talking about the what's the guy's name then or whatever?
The bald guy or you take.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
A guy from Jigglos.

Speaker 4 (45:22):
Well, there was two guys that were up there from Jigglos.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
I think the other guy did an interview talking about
he was on deck for it but never got called. Basically,
stop interviewing. No one gives a fuck stop inserting yourself
in a moment that isn't about you, which is technically
how I felt about, like even.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Doing this podcast. I didn't want to do it.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
I was saying no for a very long time. In
the ninth inning, it got presented to me in a
different fashion, and then I felt a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
I learned a little bit more about the.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Personal side of things that I'm still trying to figure out,
and that frustrated me. And then this people came to
me on this side and told me a way to
do this that felt more credible and less like Wendy Williams.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Even though I love Wendy, you mean less less gossipy,
tabloidy more.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
I didn't really you know, I don't want to sit
on a podcast every day and be interviewed about the dark,
evil ways I established in the very beginning. I don't
have an ending that I want to see at the
end of this. As more testimony goes on, I'm getting
a little more heated.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
I gotta be real with you.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
I have to like pace myself in between these podcasts
and make sure that I come back down to a
place where my biases aren't popping up because I have them,
I said it day one.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
I can't not have them. My entire life turned out.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
To be something different than what it would have been
had I never met him. He course shifted my life.
He course shifted many people's lives. He not only course
shifted my life, he course shifted my understanding of myself
as a woman, which likely course shifted all the men
that I chose to date in life and how I
found myself valuable. Like I said, I was a nerd,
I was into the law.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
I was a geek.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
I didn't really have a lot of friends. All of
a sudden, I was the looker. There was a lot
of pressure in that my toenails had to be perfect
when I walked into a room or else I would
get berated. I didn't even think about my toenails before that, right,
you know. I learned to groom myself properly and look
certain ways and be certain ways. And when it was
just when I disappointed him, I felt like I was ugly.

(47:23):
And then for my whole life, I've been a fucking tabloid,
A tabloid character to say I'm either obese, I'm this,
I'm a plastic surgery nightmare that ass is fake or
tits are fake. She photos or shops herself in fucking vacation,
she's this, she's that. I can't fucking breathe without being
attacked for that looker card that did he put on me.

(47:46):
And I didn't give two fucks about the way I looked.
I was into the law. Yeah, I was a geek.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
I read, I have books. I don't even I haven't
had sex in two years.

Speaker 4 (47:58):
I mean, I'm you could be both. You could be
sexy and smart at the same time.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Though.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
Yeah, And by the way, as I get older, i'm
when I choose to embrace those things. Therefore, me and
I come at them with confidence. And it's my own confidence,
it's not the confidence that was derived by.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
A interpretation of me.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
But I will say, all the way up even toil
last year, I'm I was working non stop last year,
everybody wanted.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
To book a ditty victim.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
And I'm not allowed to say things like that, because
I should be grateful that I got opportunities to sing again,
to be on TV shows again, that neck works grace
me with their presence, But they really wanted to push
that diddy victim shit.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
And then there were some that I.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Openly and honestly like felt and trusted. There's one coming
out that I felt safe with and trusted, and in
that scenario, they got me. On the indictment day on camera,
I met the man on camera and I learned of
his indictment on in front of the world.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
I haven't had.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
A moment to form myself off of a camera, and
so long I don't. Sometimes when I'm not on a camera,
I don't really know what the fuck life is.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
My dogs and one of them just passed sadly.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
Can I tell you something that you just said that
I wish I could turn my camera because I literally
have two dogs laying right behind me right now.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
I love it.

Speaker 4 (49:22):
I feel like we're the same heart. They're all rescues.
I have three purebread rescues, so.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
They have a rescue too. He's still alive.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
I lost a Pomeranian a couple of years ago. It
was like the worst heartbreak of my entire life. He
was twelve years old. I still haven't recovered. Then I've
got a German Shepherd rescue, I've got a cattle dog rescue,
and then I've got like a little pit bull mix
somewhere around here.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
Rescue.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
So I have dogs and I read books all the
time and I'm a huge nerd.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
So Amy said that we would get along fantastically, you
know what I said.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
I was like, I was like, she's a housewife. I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
She's like, no, she's smart, she's savvy, like blah blah blah.
And then I was like, I saw she sent me
your picture, and I'm like, she's beautiful. So now you're
gonna have two white bitches talking about a case where
there have been implications that there are racially charged situations
occurring by whoever the fuck is race baiting in that situation.
And like, for me, I was like, optics wise, don't

(50:21):
I don't love that. And I just I'm so happy
that I didn't run with the optics card because you're
so great and you understand all of this so well,
and this has been so refreshing, and this is a
work in progress type of show, you know, Like I
don't want to be a journalist, I don't want to
be a podcaster. I don't even really want to be

(50:42):
in the industry anymore. I was definitely sliding on my
way out and moving on, and I was definitely gonna
be like out of the country and on vacation during
this trial and finding the piece that I needed within.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
But as I go episode through episode.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
And meet new people along the journey, and some like you,
I'm just absolutely falling in love with. I think as
I go further in it, I'm learning. I'm learning more
about why this is, this project has the purpose that
I was told it would have.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
Well, I think from my perspective looking at you in
the way that you speak about it, you know when
I when I talk about it with my husband and
we do it. It's just straight from a legal perspective.
And it's very linear because I only I don't know him,
I don't have personal experience.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
All the podcasts are linear, and this is the only
one offering something different exactly.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
And I think maybe and I understand you not wanting
to go into it, not wanting to talk about it,
trying to protect yourself, protect your emotions.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
And contracts and everything. I have so much fucking pressure
on my shoulders and I have other jobs that I'm
not doing. I mean fashion, Noah has not seen a
post in a few weeks.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
I'm gonna get fires a brand ambassador.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
Miss you got to get your outfits together, get your
content together. What do you want.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Looking at this many papers of notes, analyzing testimony and
figuring out how everything works.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
I know I do the same thing. I spend so
much time doing legal research. It's insane, but I love
it like I enjoy it.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
Do you enjoy it? Because I enjoy it? That's how
I know I'm a huge nerd.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
When the narrative started to shift in regards to where
Puff's behavior is starting to shift into other areas besides
these you know, dramatic events, you know, I'm getting a
little it's getting a little more personal, little more upsetting, and.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
I just the the I can't.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
I don't know why I had to have my life
intersect with his. I think everybody that has ever been
close enough with him that you know, when they were
criticizing her, when Brian was saying, oh, you said you
love him in this text, I was like, I've.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Told Puff I love him before.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yeah, we all loved him, and yet we were all
traumatized by him, and yet we all found ourselves.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
I finished a TV show that did a number.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
On me last year, and I walked out and called
my agent and I was like, days like this I
literally miss Puff because he would have never allowed any
of these fucking ignorant ass people that are younger than
me professionalist fuck letting stupid ship fly on set, not
following HR policies like it was a hot fucking mess

(53:32):
of debacley going on and not even like properly produced,
if that's what y'all are trying to do.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Messy as fuck.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Yeah, Puff would have had put everybody's ass would have
been in line, everybody, he would have been scared, everybody
would have had their get right on, and nobody would
have ever come to set with sleep in their eyes.
Half the fucking cast had crust in their eyes. And
for me, I was just like the discipline that I
had back in those days. I would like I would
come to set work all of it because it was

(54:01):
all those things right, cameras up, and it was my job,
and I had to perform and sing in the studio
everywhere me was my job. I'd have to wake up
with cameras in front of me, get ready with cameras.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
In front of me.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Everything was always had to be so perfect with him
that I'm so disciplined that even on sets nowadays, the
whole cast had The commentary they had about me when
they didn't know me.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
Was She's always so she was always just so put together.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
She always just like she comes down in the morning,
it's like, girl, we're all in pj's, Like you're in
an outfit with your hair done and your makeup on. Yeah,
we're literally filming a TV show that lasts for like
two weeks. Can none of you guys, I didn't even
hear a shower go off this morning.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
None of you are even washed. Like, I don't understand that.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
If that's why you dislike me, thank you.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
That's a compliment that to the type of discipline that
PUFF put me under. However, what I'm learning is maybe
that side of me is also a little unhealthy because
I am constant in that presentation mode and everything that
I do in life until I go to sleep that
I don't necessarily you know. Fuck, the one fucking time

(55:10):
that I was like, oh and I was, I did
not look like the pictures. I'll stay I'll say that
for the rest of my life. But the one time
I was cause slipping no outfit on, looking like shit
heavy during COVID, not as heavy as the photos, but
heavy during COVID and slipping uh. That turned into a
goddamn nightmare, made me lose a million fucking jobs, made

(55:30):
me this big fucking loser that's lost at all. You
can't even google me without seeing those photos. And I
have been on Broadway to Playboy, to having my own
television show, to doing every other reality TV.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
Show on the fucking Earth, to the podcast. Now.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
I don't know, Alane, that I haven't entered. I've literally
done all of it really well and have platinum albums.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
Yeah, but what sucks, as you're saying, I google you,
which I've never done. But if I google you right now,
the fat photos are gonna shut up.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
You'll get fat photos, you'll get Trump Junior, you'll get
poly d and you'll get puff every fucking man or
ugly time. And by the way, there's not several fat photos.
There's that one whole selection of that one moment in time.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
But that one time period, a one isolated event, and
that's all that's out there.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
One isolated event is now summarized me and every and
do you know like what that does to someone that's
been trained by Puff. It's like you might as well
just kill yourself. You just fucking lost the.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Ball, bitch.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Now it's it's like that's the type of pressure that
that we learned as a kid. At one point, my
bandmate passed Danity Kine. I had a band with another
band made of mine, Shannon. Every day we'd wake up,
we're hustling, we're doing this tour, and I'd have to
go through all the problems from the show before these
need to be set. This guy's fucking up on his job.

(56:53):
He's hitting the sound cues late. I need the lighting
to come on early on this watching videos, figuring shit out,
doing everybody's job. That's what I was trained by Puffed do,
and that's what I do while I do everybody's job.
So as I'm doing all of that, I'm I'm Shannon's
talking with the Starbucks person, super nice whatever.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Get in the car. She drives while I'm doing all
the work.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
And at one point she stopped and she was like,
we're at a venue and she's touching some brick and
she goes, this is the last venue that Kurt Cobain
performed in and he signed this brick, Like this is
like pretty epic that we're performing here tonight.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
I was like, Shannon the shoes.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Name are the shoes on stage right, because last night
you were late on matt is this is this, is
this is this. And she looked at me and she
was like, ohbs, Like for one second, you need to
like enjoy life. She's like, we have gone to Starbucks
every morning for the past year of building this project.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
And you don't even know Carlos.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
Who's Carlos theisa.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Yeah, And Carlos' mom works in the deli and her
name is Patty and she's really nice. And Carlos has
a roommate and this and that and and she just
told me this whole thing, and I I realized, Shit,
I'm just always like.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
This, yeah, fixing.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Yeah, And I realized, like, and Shannon said, we learned
that from puff And because Shannon was married prior and
she goes back to a you know, bend organ and
her husband and a very normal, slow paced life.

Speaker 4 (58:18):
Yeah, she could come out of it.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
She could come out of it.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
And and she she would tell me all the time,
like we were taught that you have to work so
hard to get to to the top of the mountain
when actually you could just casually walk up it at
a pretty like decent steady pace that isn't painful, and
you can get to the top and have had a
pretty good life and enjoyed it too.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
You could pick some flowers on the way up.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Pick some flowers smell.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Then you can even pitch a tent and maybe take
some photos and walk a little faster the next day.
Like it doesn't. We don't have to like be starved, sleepless.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
Out stressed to be successful.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
I still find a heart and I still see victim
aspects in that, even though I know other people feel
differently and I have to consider their stories as well.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
It's all very complicated and layered.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
But at the end, if you were to get charged
on everything, I think i'd probably first feel pretty sad
for him.

Speaker 4 (59:24):
Yeah, you have a level of sympathy in there still.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
You know, I said I didn't like earlier on in
this call, but I guess if you're telling if we're
talking at the end of this and it's looking it's
not looking great for him, you know, it's a whole
man's life, and he's a very very powerful man that
shifted a culture for a very long period of time.

(59:50):
But the collateral damage was so deep that for whatever
crimes he committed, he does need to be put away.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Yeah, so I I would feel a sorrow for.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
What his life will be when he can't be all
the things. In all honesty, maybe when you take all
of it away, he can just naturally be in a
state where he can be who he's maybe always wanted
to be. If there is something like that happening deep down,
I don't know, but either way, like they'll be that
and then they'll be you know, you have to remember,

(01:00:26):
after this is eighty civil suits, and I don't fall
under the statute of limitations on anything anymore. But there
are some things that I need to get to the
bottom of. And there are some things that happened along
the way that were traumatic as fuck for me, and
I want to understand them, and I want the world
to understand them as well, because if I had to

(01:00:47):
go through it and put on a smile to make
all you motherfucking people watching me happy, then you're going
to learn exactly what it looked like.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):
Are you thinking that you'll file a civil suit at
some point.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
When you're in a situation where there are a lot
of victims and you're speaking to authorities you're not allowed
to speak with other victims. Now that there's a trial
and I'm not subpoena, I know I can come talk here, obviously,
But if somebody were to have seen something or there
was something to have occurred, and they're a victim, then
I wouldn't be able to understand my situation until their

(01:01:23):
situation was resolved, or until at least this situation was resolved,
because then I could actively start to call and ask
and investigate.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Yeah, so you're saying, you're just hoping that these civil
suits are a way for you to learn more about
some of them.

Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
Waiting for other people.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
I'm not waiting for eighty civil suits. I want to
get right to it the second that I can. I
just want to understand what what what the information that
I was given, I want to understand it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
So for you, it's more of a personal journey of
understanding who he is and why he acts the way
he does.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Is that I don't I have my I had my
personal experience, and I do I have answers to those questions.
There's a situation that's still at large, Emily as of today.
Let's make a call. Yeah, on possessing people across state lines.

(01:02:19):
Two counts of that is Gesz get guilty on that?

Speaker 4 (01:02:24):
I'm going to say. I'm going to go yes, yeah, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
I'm a yes on that too.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Sex trafficking two counts, two counts of sex trafficking, right
or is it rec Yeah, okay, two sex counts of trafficking?

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
Are you guilty as of today?

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
I'm going to say guilty, guilty too?

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
What about on racketeering?

Speaker 4 (01:02:41):
I'm going to see guilty on racketeering. I think that
they're called these witnesses.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
They're definitely establishing criminal enterprise, and me is testimony. Like
you pointed out, we're not talking about girlfriends anymore, so
we can't hone in on the whole. Like you know,
she was a girlfriend. She was doing it consensually. You know,
that's just the way the relationship was. He's kinky, she
went along with it. Now we're talking about the way
he treated a personal assistant. So that was really compelling

(01:03:06):
testimony as far as the criminal enterprise, So.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Yep, unless there's a bombshelf that comes on Monday, i'd say, right,
Mia was the glue that brought it, brought it on home.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Right for now, I don't see a lot of lanes
out of.

Speaker 4 (01:03:18):
This I don't either.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
The only thing I worried about in the beginning it
was jury tampery.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Well, we shall see, right see, if anyone from the
jury gives a wink before they give the call, we'll
find out in a Netflix documentary twenty years later.

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
All right, Emily, thank you so much. It's been so
great getting to know you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
You're awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
You literally make me want to watch The Housewives of OC.
This has been fun for me today.

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
Yeah, yeah, it was. It was really fun. Thank you
for having me on. I appreciate it and I look
forward to next time. Yes, okay, thanks all, Thank you. Bye.