February 6, 2024 • 30 mins
Pat Chisenhall has always maintained that he acted in self-defense and that he is protected under the Castle Doctrine - a North Carolina law that gives individuals the right to use reasonable force, including deadly force, to protect themselves against an intruder in their home. But after the crime scene is processed and an autopsy is performed… the team questions whether the Castle Doctrine does in fact stand.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi guys, it's Hillary here. Just a quick note. This
series does deal with a lot of tough subject matter
that may be difficult for some listeners, so please keep
this in mind when and where you choose to listen
to these episodes. The Griggs family are gathered together watching
(00:21):
TV when a news report comes on detailing the horrific
day Christian was shot. But something feels different to Tony.
What he's seeing on the news doesn't accurately depict what
he saw that day. Last episode, we took you through
Pat Chisenhall's voluntary interview with law enforcement and is re
(00:43):
enactment of the day in question. On this episode, we
will not only examine the crime scene, but also dive
into the medical examiner's report, which calls the Chisenhall's version
of events into question. I'm Hillary Burton Morgan and this
is true crime story. It couldn't happen here. Hi guys,
(01:20):
it's Hillary Burton Morgan here with Dan Poe and Andrew So.
Shortly after the shooting of Christian Griggs, obviously, the story
breaks out on local news and Tony and his family
catch the story as it airs, and something doesn't seem
quite right.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It was amazing that. The next day after the shooting,
we were home, my Mom, Dolly, I were all in
the bonus room. We had the TV on and the
story came up on the news and we were just
astounded when we saw the photographs the crime scene. The
(02:01):
window had been bashed and pushed in, and the first
thing my mom said was that didn't look like that
when we were there, and I was like, no, it didn't.
And I didn't think much of that. I didn't know
whether they were cleaning up, moving things around, but the
scene had been altered.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
They saw in the news story that the front window
that had been broken was pushed in pretty far, and
their memory of when they were at the scene was
that the part of the window was pushed in, but
not to the extent that it was shown on the
news stories.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
It looked to him like the entire scene had been
altered considerably from when he arrived there as the first
person on scene.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Now we already discussed Pat's retelling of what transpired that day,
but these photos are being released and shown on the
news and things aren't adding up with Tony and Dolly.
You know what they're scene on the news that doesn't
reflect what they saw on that day, And so I
want to talk about these crime scene photos for people
(03:00):
who may not have seen this episode of our show.
Let's just describe some of what we saw in these pictures.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
It's from the porch, and it's the front of the house.
The window that Patches and Halls said Christian was coming through.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
It's a double hung window. And these are the same
windows Tony saw in the news report, but to him
they looked drastically different. And so when I first saw
this crime scene photo, my natural assumption is like, oh,
Christian broke the window, so Christian must have also knocked
all these plants down and made this big, violent mess.
(03:34):
And it looks bad, you guys, Like, it looks like
something really bad happened.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
On this porch that he trashed the porch.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And it was only later when it was explained to
us that EMTs are the ones that threw the table
off the porch into hedges that line the side of
the house, and they're the ones that knocked over all
the plants and made the big mess. As they were
working on Christian in the corner of the porch.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Right they were trying to make space to get everything
in the gurney and everything up onto it. So they
cleared the space by throwing this large side table off
the porch and all the plants crashed and smashed underneath it.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
But for anybody who's seen perhaps this picture or footage
of this on the news, they don't have that context.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
So it like somebody came up and trashed it.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Andrew, what do you see from this picture? Like if
you were law enforcement, what would you be testing in
this picture?
Speaker 5 (04:25):
I would be looking for fingerprints. I would be looking
for whether or not the gap was sufficient to provide
a site line for Christian being shot through the window
from where Pat says he shot him, So does that
gap connect to that. I would also be looking for
bullet holes, any other fragments that might have occurred.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Blood, and that's important to highlight there there is no blood.
You know, is it worth DNA testing to the window
to see you know who's been interacting with it?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Well, fingerprint testing is number one. I don't see any
of the there's a black powder and you dust for fingerprints.
You've probably seen it and CSI we've certainly seen it
at real crime scenes with them doing it. That's one
of the one things from TV that Israel. When they
do the fingerprinting, it looks the same. But I don't
see any fingerprinting done. I don't believe any was.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
We have a record that they dusted for prints on
the exterior screen that was on the window at one
point and that was removed and tossed onto the bushes,
So they dusted that screen for fingerprints and found nothing.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
They found no fingerprints on the frame of that screen.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
On the frame of the screen, and I don't see
any record that they actually dusted the window itself for prints.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
However, these photos are probably taken prior to any processing
of the crime scene.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
But again there's no record that. The only thing they've
said in their report is that they dusted the screen
for Prince. They never indicated they you.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
Would look for fingerprints, you would look for the siteline
between the gap and the window and patchins presumed shooting
position and perhaps blood.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I mean, if Christian was shot the way that Patris
and Holes says he was, he would have been shot
while hanging basically half in the room and half outside.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
But there's not enough. I mean, let's say half in
half out. Even makes it seem like there's a bigger opening, right.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
But I mean, I'm just saying for Pat's story is
that he sort of halfway was climbing in. There's no
bullet holes through the blinds, there's no bullet holes through
the drapes, there's no bullet holes in the wall around
the windows.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Well, day of the event, we don't know the bullet trajectories,
you know, we don't know any of that stuff. So
just looking at these pictures, this looks like a violent encounter.
You know, the broken window is obvious. But we've already
heard from Tony Griggs that when he arrived at the
scene it was serene and he didn't notice anything wrong
(06:50):
as he stood there at the front door and was
like knocking. And then Dolly says the same thing.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
I just started to survey the area thinking like what
in the world, Yeah, it happened. And so on the
front porch there's a little it's like a patio table,
a very small one with tilow chairs, had a like
a flower pot on it that was turned over. The
blinds were closed, there was no broken glass, no window
(07:16):
was open. The only thing that was open was like
someone had opened the window at the top. Like we
have those windows that you can pull in. Yeah, And
so it was open about like that at the top
on the side where the doors at, but the blind
was closed on it.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
And even Dolly and Christian's sister arrived at the scene
fairly quickly, and we're able to see the window, see
the porch, see the surrounding area. And so all of
the members of Christian's family saw the crime scene before
camera trucks showed up, and then that footage was later
put on the news and they all could look at
(07:53):
it and be like, wait a second. The window that
I'm seeing in this crime scene photo is very pushed in.
You know, this is incredibly noticeable. Like if you walked
up on a house and saw this, you would be
alarmed right away.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
You'd think somebody had pushed through that one.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Okay, So let's go to the next photograph, Poe, what
are we saying here?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
So this photograph is supposed to be pat chosen Hall's
point of view. He's looking square at the front door
and the two windows and the sofa that is in
front of those windows, and he's standing behind a second
sofa that's on the other side of the living room,
facing the windows and facing the first sofa.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
What it illustrates is that his story is that he
shot from quite a distance. Andrew, how far would you
say this distance is?
Speaker 5 (08:58):
I would say that's a out eighteen feet and so
he is shooting through a gap. From the look of
this photo. If the shades are down, and the fact
that the windows are not broken on the bottom or
there's any other stray bullet holes there, it would be
actually impossible to have shot him from the point of
(09:19):
view that Pat says he shot him.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
From from across the room, facing those.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
Ways eighteen feet away.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Now, unmust like you said, Christian had already climbed pretty
much into the room. Then you're shooting straight on Christian
standing inside the room.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Well, which the day of that is their narrative.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
They have the narrative. Pat says that Christian is already
and you know, he's climbed halfway through the window, presumably
so some or most of his torso is being exposed,
and he's sort of over the couch a little bit.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
All right, Let's take a look at what law enforcement
actually has and what they're dealing with that day. You know,
that day, they know there's multiple gunshot wounds. They know
that they have this broken window, they have the shooters POV.
And then we also have a picture of this collection
of shells that's tough behind a living room chair in
the same room, and we will definitely talk about those
(10:11):
shells in our next episode. So these pictures are taken,
the crime scene is processed, we know who is allowed
onto the crime scene, and it does seem pretty weird
to me. So who shows up and is allowed to
just walk onto the crime scene the day of the killing.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Well, usually at a crime scene there's an officer who's
in charge of recording who's coming in and out of
that scene. And so in the crime scene log we
do see that Pat Chisenhol's sun is listed, and I
believe he worked as a state correctional officer and was
a volunteer with the AI or Fire and Rescue, so
he did have a legitimate job of the county. But
(10:51):
I don't know why he would be entering the crime
scene in an official capacity. You know, he'd be going
in as the son of Pat Chisenhall.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
We have that file hold on to pull it out
because I want to see what time it happened. He
actually enters twice. Here is the crime scene log here.
So the first person on the scene is Hildreth. He
gets there at eleven ten and he's the lead investigator.
And then by eleven forty so only like thirty minutes
(11:20):
after this crime scene's been taped off Pat Chisenhaal Junior.
So Pat's son is allowed in and it says the
purpose is to secure the dog. So I mean, is
that something that a member of law enforcement could have
done or somebody else could have brought the dog out
to them rather than let him onto the crime scene.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
We don't know. At least there's a reason given.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And then let's see, so he's in for six minutes
at that point, and then he comes in again at
two forty five pm, and the reason given is to
retrieve medication.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
They're letting somebody who is connected to the perpetrator, justified
or not, in and out of the crime scene before
it's been fully investigated.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Here's the other thing to your point about it not
being fully processed, is that this log of everybody in
and out of the scene is done by seventeen forty five,
So that's five point forty five in the evening that day.
They only start looking around at eleven ten. That's the
(12:34):
first time anyone's in and then by five forty five
everyone's out right.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Most of the times in this situation, the house would
be taped off, and obviously Pat and Katie would be
forbidden to return there to the house.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Or anyone connected with them.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Until a more thorough investigation had been completed. They did
continue to investigate, but they came back several days later.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Literally the church congregation and came over and assisted in
the cleanup of this crime scene. Like, I can't think
of anything more small town to have the people involved
in this situation come clean up the crime scene, which
is confusing.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Well, I mean, people always have to kind of clean
up their own crime scenes after it's been processed. Like
if something happens in your house, they don't come and
clean your rugs. You have to get that done. That's
how it works. But the fact that the church congregation
comes and the fact that they let them do it
that soon, I mean the main thing. Okay, right, they
don't know the exact amount of bullets, But when do
(13:33):
you close a crime scene before you know they know
it's more than one. How do you close a crime
scene where there's a story, whether it's self defense, not
knowing how many bullets were fired, and not knowing if
you have retrieved the evidence that back up the story,
like they do not know that.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
It's extraordinary that they turned the crime scene back over
to the family that quickly.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
What you have is a death that's a deniable you know,
it absolutely happened. It happened with witnesses. Even the person
who committed the death acknowledged like, yes, I'm responsible for
this thing, but it was self defense.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
In fact, at first it was immediately just like taken
with no grain of salt. Immediately they run down to
patches and halls, parishioners and they're like, yeah, he had
to do it. It was terrible. It's terrible.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
That's it. There's almost a hope from the Griggs that
there's actually an investigation happening, and so it wouldn't necessarily
be alarming that the windows pushed in further until later
when they realized like wait a second, you're not going
to prosecute, Like you're not going to push this. Then
it's like hold on, everything snaps into focus. Are you
(14:47):
going off of these crime scene photos? Like how are
you making this decision?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Christian's family seemed to be the lone voice for a while,
saying this isn't right. I don't believe this narrative.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
I guess their natural assumption must be like, wow, this
is being invested, gated. My son is a victim, and
it is not until later that it dawns on them.
Hold on, we're not being treated like victims. My son
is not being viewed as a victim.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Dolly says, this is crazy, like they're talking about my
son and I know my son and none of this
is his behavior. And suddenly the way he's being painted,
in the way the story is being portrayed, is not
only counter their own feelings, but even to Tony's own experience.
Speaker 7 (15:27):
I just couldn't understand it, just couldn't put it together.
Who was shooting.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
One of the police reports said that it was a homicide,
but Pat chisen Hall and Katie Chisenhall were victims. The
victim of a homicide, to my knowledge, never survives.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
We knew that there was no way that Christian was
trying to break into their home because Christian's never done
anything like that before. This was a narrative that they
put out there. You're talking about a young black man
then violent and gone and someone is home and it's
an interracial marriage. What's the first thing that's going to
come to your mind. He's justified he should at that shot.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So the fourteenth of October, the autopsy is conducted, and
that's just two days after Christian's death, and the chief
medical examiner, doctor Lawrence Scott, states that Christian had a
total of six gunshot wounds. One is found in Christian's
left shoulder, the other is in his left abdomen, but
(16:39):
then the other four gun shot wounds are found in
his back, and doctor Lawrence Scott reports that the bullets
traveled at a sharp upward angle. So because of this
trajectory of these shots, she hypothesizes that Christian must have
been parallel to the ground and the shooter was likely
(17:02):
standing up when these four shots to the back were fired.
And so she pronounces the cause of death to be
multiple gunshot wounds to the back, with one of the
bullets severing christians spine and like instantly paralyzing him. So
this autopsy report presents very big red flags, you know,
and it raises a lot of questions because it counters
(17:26):
what Patchiesen Hall said happened. But the Griggs family they're
not aware of the specifics of this autopsy until January.
This happened in October, so they don't know any of
this till January, and they're just seeing what is reported
on the news like everyone else. They finally meet with
Detective Armstrong who comes over to their home and he
(17:47):
tells them, sorry, there's not enough evidence to support a
murder charge or any charges against patchiesen Hall, really, and
that the shots indicated that Christian was shot in the
back while bent over attempting to enter a window, which
is consistent with the Chisenhall story, but it's in direct
conflict with doctor Lauren Scott's report.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
We're put into a whole pattern, and we're looking for
the DA or the sheriff to contact us and tell
us what the way ahead is, and we hear nothing.
And then Detective Armstrong shows up one evening and I
felt totally disrespected. It almost seemed as though he was
on his way home from work, he just wanted to
(18:31):
kind of drop by and drop the news off to you.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
He came here to our home, he sat down with
my wife, and I had an additional gentleman with him
whom he never introduced. And proceeded to tell us that
mister Chisenhall was an upright standing citizen in the community
and that Christian was on his porch, you know, and
this would kind of be like Castle Doctor that when
Chisenhall started shooting, there was no break in his shoe,
(19:00):
so therefore it was a justified clean shoot.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
I was irate.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
It can't be a clean shooting if you have two
shots in the front and four in the back from
different angles.
Speaker 7 (19:13):
So you can't tell me that it was a repetitive
single shooting.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I asked him had he even been to the crime scene,
because the things that he was saying made no sense.
Speaker 7 (19:25):
You know, Christian was on the pool. This is how
he said. The boy was on Chisenhall's porch.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Chisenhall is a good guy in the community, an upstanding
citizen in the community.
Speaker 7 (19:39):
I'm saying, not so upstanding that he shot my son
in the back.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
And so this is why we knew we had to
dig into this case. Pat story that now law enforcement
is definitely saying, like, oh, we believe Pat is that
Christian came through the window and he shot him. But
when Christian was found, he's on the other side of
the porch. Face, So what does that tell us?
Speaker 4 (20:03):
They would have had to drag him out of that
window if they shot him all those many times, because
he was paralyzed by one of them. So he's laying
in the corner on his stomach, far from the window
on the porch. There's no way that he would have
been shot in the back like shot in the front,
slumps over in that window. The bullets then hit him
four times in the back, and then houses body get
in the corner on his stomach. He's paralyzed, he's about
(20:25):
to die and he can't move.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
They're interpreting the Emmy's report about the trajectory as what
she's saying. She's saying his back was parallel to the ground.
Now that could mean he was lying flat on the
ground or that he was bent over, you know from
the waist. If he was standing and then leaning forward,
his torso would be parallel to the ground. Right, So
law enforcement is interpreting that as he was climbing back
(20:49):
out of the window when he was shot.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
So he pushes in, shoot him twice in the front.
He slumps over in that halfway through the window thing.
So his back is now revealed because his head's literally
like on the couch on the like down and revealing
his back as he's slumped on the windowsill, and then
four shots get fired in his back. But at that
point he's in the window. He can't be anywhere but
(21:13):
the window. If this is the scenario, how's he get
out of the window onto his stomach in the corner?
How many feet five feet or more from that window
on the porch.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Right, And remember we talked about these crime scene photos.
There was no blood.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
The report also says that one of the bullets cut
his spinal cord, so he would have been paralyzed. So
if he was in the window when he was shot,
he couldn't have.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Gotten himself to the corner of the porch face down.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
We've talked about this so many times and it still
doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Basically, any shot to the back is not self defense.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
So Tony and Dolly Griggs get the impression that something
is very, very wrong. And we have a SoundBite from
Tony about calling the district attorney himself. He's his child's
only advocate. Right now.
Speaker 8 (22:02):
I was spoken with the district Attorney, Vernon Stewart, and
I say, well, Christian was shot in the back. Why
isn't this man hasn't been charged? He said, well, I
can't just charge a man for shooting somebody in the back.
And I say, well, under what pretenses can you tell
me it's acceptable to shoot a man in the back?
Speaker 7 (22:20):
And his response was, I'm not going to fuss with you.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Do they give you a reason why they're not going
to press.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
Charges with them out Because Pat Chisenhall said that Christian
tried to break into their home, they were going to
try to use the castle doctor and in Christian's.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Case, the self defense story here of I'm going to
use the castle doctrine. My home was threatened. Someone was
coming in and threatening me, and so I have the
right to shoot them. It is important to mention that
North Carolina is a Second Amendment state and guns are
a huge part of the culture there. I lived there.
(22:56):
I had a gun in my home when I lived there.
So this idea of the castle doctrine, it's not far fetched,
you know, protecting your home, protecting your family, that is
something that makes sense to a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah, one of the things that we definitely wanted to
talk about in the town was this story centers around guns,
and it does center around the castle doctrine and the
right to defend yourself. And these are the questions that
this story raised, and so we definitely wanted to speak
to the people in town to get their opinions on these.
Speaker 9 (23:24):
I carry a gun one hundred percent of the time.
You know, it's just for a putition, That's all it's for.
You know, I've never come across any one like that.
I hope I'll never have to come across in the
order to use a gun, you know what I mean. Now,
I rather talk a situation now they'll walk away from
it and then have to pull the gun out and
use it.
Speaker 7 (23:43):
I have anyone to pull it out.
Speaker 9 (23:44):
And use it on me, you know, I rather do
that at the end of the thing gots.
Speaker 7 (23:49):
So it's one of the first choices.
Speaker 9 (23:52):
The last choice these no gun is the last choice
to be. You know, a lot of times I think
you should be able to walk away for a situation
anything else. You know, that's the last thing you want
to do. Someone you get here in the process or
anything like that.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
He'll say, you.
Speaker 9 (24:07):
Don't want to get hear nobody, they don't want to
nobody hurt you. Well, you will protect you and your family.
That's anyone in the wee gonna do that.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
Here's that word family again, protect you and your family.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yes, patchisen Hall states over and over again that protecting
his daughter his daughter's terror. There's a lot of emphasis
put on what Katie is feeling and his desire to
protect her, which is totally understandable, especially if your daughter's
in the process of leaving her partner who you both
(24:41):
feel threatened by, and so hearing people say I have
to protect my family, I have to protect my family.
White families are given the ability to do that. They
are given coverage by the Castle doctrine. We just heard
from a black man in North Carolina who says that
he carries a gun for the very same reason. But
(25:01):
would he be granted the same grace that Patchisenhall is
granted if it were his family, right.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
I think that's a good point because we spoke to
black people on the street, we spoke to white people
in the street, and I felt that almost everybody we
spoke to had guns, and they all felt that it
was their right to protect themselves and their.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Families with those guns.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
With those guns, they would have every right to use
them if they felt that their life or their family
safety was at risk. But all the people we spoke
to were also very responsible. They all said, this should
be the last reason I don't want to find out.
I don't want to be in that position where I
have to use my guns.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
He's talking about de escalation, global de escalation.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
And the proximity of guns to a problem obviously makes
the likelihood of death or seriously bodily harm makes it skyrocket.
You know, Patchisenhall didn't have guns in his home, this
domestic fight would have still occurred, but Christian's death wouldn't
have happened. I just still have trouble wrapping my head
around how it goes from being a verbal argument on
(26:04):
Tuesday to death on Saturday. But I mean that's what
this entire series is about, you know, it's unraveling the
yarn ball and trying to figure out where everything fits
because it still doesn't all these years later. But when
we look at the medical examiner's report, I mean, I
know we aren't lawyers or law enforcement, but does the
(26:25):
castle doctrine still apply?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I mean, from my understanding, no, I mean it's one
thing if somebody is actively breaking into your home, but
if somebody is leaving your home. If somebody is retreating,
if somebody is moving away, you are no longer in danger.
Your home is no longer in danger. I think the
interesting thing again about the castle doctrine is that it's
saying that you don't have to prove that you're afraid
for your life, because if somebody's breaking into your house,
(26:49):
you're presumed be afraid for your life and can take
defensive action, including killing someone.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Now what's interesting about this castle doctrine, though, was this
was pretty new. This castle doctrine only passed in North
Carolina while Christian was in Iraq, and so while he
was deployed overseas, this legislation was passed. He comes home
and very quickly becomes a victim of it. And you know,
it's a great defense for pat Chisenhall because there is
(27:21):
damage to the property, there is a domestic disagreement that's happening.
I mean, all signs point two castle doctrine can play here.
But it's the shots in the back, Yeah, you know,
it's this medical examiner's report. It's her discomfort with the
way this case is being played out, which prompts her
to write further letters and affidavits because something is clearly
(27:45):
wrong here. Well, we're going to further dig in the
next episode. We've gotten Pat's side, We've gotten the Griggs side,
we have the medical examiner's report, we have law enforcement
saying there's no there there we can't prosecute. And so
when these new players like Lee Dunny and Robbie Jessup
(28:06):
enter into the equation, all of a sudden, the narratives
start falling apart, and that is where we're going to
go next week. That's it for this week's episode of
True Crime Story It Couldn't Happen Here, But be sure
to join us next week as we dive deeper into
the Christian Griggs case.
Speaker 5 (28:27):
What the heck is a private investigator? That's always like
the big one. I'm a private investigator. We see it
in the movies so often, and it's like, what do
they do?
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Join us next week as we continue to roll up
our sleeves and dig in. Thank you so much for
joining us. If you haven't watched Sundance TV's True Crime
Story It Couldn't Happen Here, you can catch all of
our episodes streaming on AMC Plus. For more information about
this and other cases we've covered follow at I See
(28:58):
HH stories on Instagram. True crime story It Couldn't Happen
Here was produced by Mischief Farm in association with Bungalow
Media and Entertainment, Authentic Management Productions, and Figdonia in partnership
with Sundance TV. Executive producers are me, Hillary Burton, Morgan
Liz Deccessor, Robert Friedman, Mike Powers, and Meg Mortimer. Producers
(29:24):
are Maggie Robinson Katz and Libby Siegel. Our audio engineer
is Brendan Dalton, with original music by Philip Radiotis. We
want to say a special thank you to everyone who participated,
but especially the families impacted by our cases.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Okay,
Hi guys, it's Hillary here. Just a quick note. This
series does deal with a lot of tough subject matter
that may be difficult for some listeners, so please keep
this in mind when and where you choose to listen
to these episodes. The Griggs family are gathered together watching
(00:21):
TV when a news report comes on detailing the horrific
day Christian was shot. But something feels different to Tony.
What he's seeing on the news doesn't accurately depict what
he saw that day. Last episode, we took you through
Pat Chisenhall's voluntary interview with law enforcement and is re
(00:43):
enactment of the day in question. On this episode, we
will not only examine the crime scene, but also dive
into the medical examiner's report, which calls the Chisenhall's version
of events into question. I'm Hillary Burton Morgan and this
is true crime story. It couldn't happen here. Hi guys,
(01:20):
it's Hillary Burton Morgan here with Dan Poe and Andrew So.
Shortly after the shooting of Christian Griggs, obviously, the story
breaks out on local news and Tony and his family
catch the story as it airs, and something doesn't seem
quite right.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It was amazing that. The next day after the shooting,
we were home, my Mom, Dolly, I were all in
the bonus room. We had the TV on and the
story came up on the news and we were just
astounded when we saw the photographs the crime scene. The
(02:01):
window had been bashed and pushed in, and the first
thing my mom said was that didn't look like that
when we were there, and I was like, no, it didn't.
And I didn't think much of that. I didn't know
whether they were cleaning up, moving things around, but the
scene had been altered.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
They saw in the news story that the front window
that had been broken was pushed in pretty far, and
their memory of when they were at the scene was
that the part of the window was pushed in, but
not to the extent that it was shown on the
news stories.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
It looked to him like the entire scene had been
altered considerably from when he arrived there as the first
person on scene.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Now we already discussed Pat's retelling of what transpired that day,
but these photos are being released and shown on the
news and things aren't adding up with Tony and Dolly.
You know what they're scene on the news that doesn't
reflect what they saw on that day, And so I
want to talk about these crime scene photos for people
(03:00):
who may not have seen this episode of our show.
Let's just describe some of what we saw in these pictures.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
It's from the porch, and it's the front of the house.
The window that Patches and Halls said Christian was coming through.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
It's a double hung window. And these are the same
windows Tony saw in the news report, but to him
they looked drastically different. And so when I first saw
this crime scene photo, my natural assumption is like, oh,
Christian broke the window, so Christian must have also knocked
all these plants down and made this big, violent mess.
(03:34):
And it looks bad, you guys, Like, it looks like
something really bad happened.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
On this porch that he trashed the porch.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And it was only later when it was explained to
us that EMTs are the ones that threw the table
off the porch into hedges that line the side of
the house, and they're the ones that knocked over all
the plants and made the big mess. As they were
working on Christian in the corner of the porch.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Right they were trying to make space to get everything
in the gurney and everything up onto it. So they
cleared the space by throwing this large side table off
the porch and all the plants crashed and smashed underneath it.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
But for anybody who's seen perhaps this picture or footage
of this on the news, they don't have that context.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
So it like somebody came up and trashed it.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Andrew, what do you see from this picture? Like if
you were law enforcement, what would you be testing in
this picture?
Speaker 5 (04:25):
I would be looking for fingerprints. I would be looking
for whether or not the gap was sufficient to provide
a site line for Christian being shot through the window
from where Pat says he shot him, So does that
gap connect to that. I would also be looking for
bullet holes, any other fragments that might have occurred.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Blood, and that's important to highlight there there is no blood.
You know, is it worth DNA testing to the window
to see you know who's been interacting with it?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Well, fingerprint testing is number one. I don't see any
of the there's a black powder and you dust for fingerprints.
You've probably seen it and CSI we've certainly seen it
at real crime scenes with them doing it. That's one
of the one things from TV that Israel. When they
do the fingerprinting, it looks the same. But I don't
see any fingerprinting done. I don't believe any was.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
We have a record that they dusted for prints on
the exterior screen that was on the window at one
point and that was removed and tossed onto the bushes,
So they dusted that screen for fingerprints and found nothing.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
They found no fingerprints on the frame of that screen.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
On the frame of the screen, and I don't see
any record that they actually dusted the window itself for prints.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
However, these photos are probably taken prior to any processing
of the crime scene.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
But again there's no record that. The only thing they've
said in their report is that they dusted the screen
for Prince. They never indicated they you.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
Would look for fingerprints, you would look for the siteline
between the gap and the window and patchins presumed shooting
position and perhaps blood.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I mean, if Christian was shot the way that Patris
and Holes says he was, he would have been shot
while hanging basically half in the room and half outside.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
But there's not enough. I mean, let's say half in
half out. Even makes it seem like there's a bigger opening, right.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
But I mean, I'm just saying for Pat's story is
that he sort of halfway was climbing in. There's no
bullet holes through the blinds, there's no bullet holes through
the drapes, there's no bullet holes in the wall around
the windows.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Well, day of the event, we don't know the bullet trajectories,
you know, we don't know any of that stuff. So
just looking at these pictures, this looks like a violent encounter.
You know, the broken window is obvious. But we've already
heard from Tony Griggs that when he arrived at the
scene it was serene and he didn't notice anything wrong
(06:50):
as he stood there at the front door and was
like knocking. And then Dolly says the same thing.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
I just started to survey the area thinking like what
in the world, Yeah, it happened. And so on the
front porch there's a little it's like a patio table,
a very small one with tilow chairs, had a like
a flower pot on it that was turned over. The
blinds were closed, there was no broken glass, no window
(07:16):
was open. The only thing that was open was like
someone had opened the window at the top. Like we
have those windows that you can pull in. Yeah, And
so it was open about like that at the top
on the side where the doors at, but the blind
was closed on it.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
And even Dolly and Christian's sister arrived at the scene
fairly quickly, and we're able to see the window, see
the porch, see the surrounding area. And so all of
the members of Christian's family saw the crime scene before
camera trucks showed up, and then that footage was later
put on the news and they all could look at
(07:53):
it and be like, wait a second. The window that
I'm seeing in this crime scene photo is very pushed in.
You know, this is incredibly noticeable. Like if you walked
up on a house and saw this, you would be
alarmed right away.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
You'd think somebody had pushed through that one.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Okay, So let's go to the next photograph, Poe, what
are we saying here?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
So this photograph is supposed to be pat chosen Hall's
point of view. He's looking square at the front door
and the two windows and the sofa that is in
front of those windows, and he's standing behind a second
sofa that's on the other side of the living room,
facing the windows and facing the first sofa.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
What it illustrates is that his story is that he
shot from quite a distance. Andrew, how far would you
say this distance is?
Speaker 5 (08:58):
I would say that's a out eighteen feet and so
he is shooting through a gap. From the look of
this photo. If the shades are down, and the fact
that the windows are not broken on the bottom or
there's any other stray bullet holes there, it would be
actually impossible to have shot him from the point of
(09:19):
view that Pat says he shot him.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
From from across the room, facing those.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
Ways eighteen feet away.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Now, unmust like you said, Christian had already climbed pretty
much into the room. Then you're shooting straight on Christian
standing inside the room.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Well, which the day of that is their narrative.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
They have the narrative. Pat says that Christian is already
and you know, he's climbed halfway through the window, presumably
so some or most of his torso is being exposed,
and he's sort of over the couch a little bit.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
All right, Let's take a look at what law enforcement
actually has and what they're dealing with that day. You know,
that day, they know there's multiple gunshot wounds. They know
that they have this broken window, they have the shooters POV.
And then we also have a picture of this collection
of shells that's tough behind a living room chair in
the same room, and we will definitely talk about those
(10:11):
shells in our next episode. So these pictures are taken,
the crime scene is processed, we know who is allowed
onto the crime scene, and it does seem pretty weird
to me. So who shows up and is allowed to
just walk onto the crime scene the day of the killing.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Well, usually at a crime scene there's an officer who's
in charge of recording who's coming in and out of
that scene. And so in the crime scene log we
do see that Pat Chisenhol's sun is listed, and I
believe he worked as a state correctional officer and was
a volunteer with the AI or Fire and Rescue, so
he did have a legitimate job of the county. But
(10:51):
I don't know why he would be entering the crime
scene in an official capacity. You know, he'd be going
in as the son of Pat Chisenhall.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
We have that file hold on to pull it out
because I want to see what time it happened. He
actually enters twice. Here is the crime scene log here.
So the first person on the scene is Hildreth. He
gets there at eleven ten and he's the lead investigator.
And then by eleven forty so only like thirty minutes
(11:20):
after this crime scene's been taped off Pat Chisenhaal Junior.
So Pat's son is allowed in and it says the
purpose is to secure the dog. So I mean, is
that something that a member of law enforcement could have
done or somebody else could have brought the dog out
to them rather than let him onto the crime scene.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
We don't know. At least there's a reason given.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And then let's see, so he's in for six minutes
at that point, and then he comes in again at
two forty five pm, and the reason given is to
retrieve medication.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
They're letting somebody who is connected to the perpetrator, justified
or not, in and out of the crime scene before
it's been fully investigated.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Here's the other thing to your point about it not
being fully processed, is that this log of everybody in
and out of the scene is done by seventeen forty five,
So that's five point forty five in the evening that day.
They only start looking around at eleven ten. That's the
(12:34):
first time anyone's in and then by five forty five
everyone's out right.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Most of the times in this situation, the house would
be taped off, and obviously Pat and Katie would be
forbidden to return there to the house.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Or anyone connected with them.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Until a more thorough investigation had been completed. They did
continue to investigate, but they came back several days later.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Literally the church congregation and came over and assisted in
the cleanup of this crime scene. Like, I can't think
of anything more small town to have the people involved
in this situation come clean up the crime scene, which
is confusing.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Well, I mean, people always have to kind of clean
up their own crime scenes after it's been processed. Like
if something happens in your house, they don't come and
clean your rugs. You have to get that done. That's
how it works. But the fact that the church congregation
comes and the fact that they let them do it
that soon, I mean the main thing. Okay, right, they
don't know the exact amount of bullets, But when do
(13:33):
you close a crime scene before you know they know
it's more than one. How do you close a crime
scene where there's a story, whether it's self defense, not
knowing how many bullets were fired, and not knowing if
you have retrieved the evidence that back up the story,
like they do not know that.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
It's extraordinary that they turned the crime scene back over
to the family that quickly.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
What you have is a death that's a deniable you know,
it absolutely happened. It happened with witnesses. Even the person
who committed the death acknowledged like, yes, I'm responsible for
this thing, but it was self defense.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
In fact, at first it was immediately just like taken
with no grain of salt. Immediately they run down to
patches and halls, parishioners and they're like, yeah, he had
to do it. It was terrible. It's terrible.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
That's it. There's almost a hope from the Griggs that
there's actually an investigation happening, and so it wouldn't necessarily
be alarming that the windows pushed in further until later
when they realized like wait a second, you're not going
to prosecute, Like you're not going to push this. Then
it's like hold on, everything snaps into focus. Are you
(14:47):
going off of these crime scene photos? Like how are
you making this decision?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Christian's family seemed to be the lone voice for a while,
saying this isn't right. I don't believe this narrative.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
I guess their natural assumption must be like, wow, this
is being invested, gated. My son is a victim, and
it is not until later that it dawns on them.
Hold on, we're not being treated like victims. My son
is not being viewed as a victim.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Dolly says, this is crazy, like they're talking about my
son and I know my son and none of this
is his behavior. And suddenly the way he's being painted,
in the way the story is being portrayed, is not
only counter their own feelings, but even to Tony's own experience.
Speaker 7 (15:27):
I just couldn't understand it, just couldn't put it together.
Who was shooting.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
One of the police reports said that it was a homicide,
but Pat chisen Hall and Katie Chisenhall were victims. The
victim of a homicide, to my knowledge, never survives.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
We knew that there was no way that Christian was
trying to break into their home because Christian's never done
anything like that before. This was a narrative that they
put out there. You're talking about a young black man
then violent and gone and someone is home and it's
an interracial marriage. What's the first thing that's going to
come to your mind. He's justified he should at that shot.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So the fourteenth of October, the autopsy is conducted, and
that's just two days after Christian's death, and the chief
medical examiner, doctor Lawrence Scott, states that Christian had a
total of six gunshot wounds. One is found in Christian's
left shoulder, the other is in his left abdomen, but
(16:39):
then the other four gun shot wounds are found in
his back, and doctor Lawrence Scott reports that the bullets
traveled at a sharp upward angle. So because of this
trajectory of these shots, she hypothesizes that Christian must have
been parallel to the ground and the shooter was likely
(17:02):
standing up when these four shots to the back were fired.
And so she pronounces the cause of death to be
multiple gunshot wounds to the back, with one of the
bullets severing christians spine and like instantly paralyzing him. So
this autopsy report presents very big red flags, you know,
and it raises a lot of questions because it counters
(17:26):
what Patchiesen Hall said happened. But the Griggs family they're
not aware of the specifics of this autopsy until January.
This happened in October, so they don't know any of
this till January, and they're just seeing what is reported
on the news like everyone else. They finally meet with
Detective Armstrong who comes over to their home and he
(17:47):
tells them, sorry, there's not enough evidence to support a
murder charge or any charges against patchiesen Hall, really, and
that the shots indicated that Christian was shot in the
back while bent over attempting to enter a window, which
is consistent with the Chisenhall story, but it's in direct
conflict with doctor Lauren Scott's report.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
We're put into a whole pattern, and we're looking for
the DA or the sheriff to contact us and tell
us what the way ahead is, and we hear nothing.
And then Detective Armstrong shows up one evening and I
felt totally disrespected. It almost seemed as though he was
on his way home from work, he just wanted to
(18:31):
kind of drop by and drop the news off to you.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
He came here to our home, he sat down with
my wife, and I had an additional gentleman with him
whom he never introduced. And proceeded to tell us that
mister Chisenhall was an upright standing citizen in the community
and that Christian was on his porch, you know, and
this would kind of be like Castle Doctor that when
Chisenhall started shooting, there was no break in his shoe,
(19:00):
so therefore it was a justified clean shoot.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
I was irate.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
It can't be a clean shooting if you have two
shots in the front and four in the back from
different angles.
Speaker 7 (19:13):
So you can't tell me that it was a repetitive
single shooting.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I asked him had he even been to the crime scene,
because the things that he was saying made no sense.
Speaker 7 (19:25):
You know, Christian was on the pool. This is how
he said. The boy was on Chisenhall's porch.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Chisenhall is a good guy in the community, an upstanding
citizen in the community.
Speaker 7 (19:39):
I'm saying, not so upstanding that he shot my son
in the back.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
And so this is why we knew we had to
dig into this case. Pat story that now law enforcement
is definitely saying, like, oh, we believe Pat is that
Christian came through the window and he shot him. But
when Christian was found, he's on the other side of
the porch. Face, So what does that tell us?
Speaker 4 (20:03):
They would have had to drag him out of that
window if they shot him all those many times, because
he was paralyzed by one of them. So he's laying
in the corner on his stomach, far from the window
on the porch. There's no way that he would have
been shot in the back like shot in the front,
slumps over in that window. The bullets then hit him
four times in the back, and then houses body get
in the corner on his stomach. He's paralyzed, he's about
(20:25):
to die and he can't move.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
They're interpreting the Emmy's report about the trajectory as what
she's saying. She's saying his back was parallel to the ground.
Now that could mean he was lying flat on the
ground or that he was bent over, you know from
the waist. If he was standing and then leaning forward,
his torso would be parallel to the ground. Right, So
law enforcement is interpreting that as he was climbing back
(20:49):
out of the window when he was shot.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
So he pushes in, shoot him twice in the front.
He slumps over in that halfway through the window thing.
So his back is now revealed because his head's literally
like on the couch on the like down and revealing
his back as he's slumped on the windowsill, and then
four shots get fired in his back. But at that
point he's in the window. He can't be anywhere but
(21:13):
the window. If this is the scenario, how's he get
out of the window onto his stomach in the corner?
How many feet five feet or more from that window
on the porch.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Right, And remember we talked about these crime scene photos.
There was no blood.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
The report also says that one of the bullets cut
his spinal cord, so he would have been paralyzed. So
if he was in the window when he was shot,
he couldn't have.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Gotten himself to the corner of the porch face down.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
We've talked about this so many times and it still
doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Basically, any shot to the back is not self defense.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
So Tony and Dolly Griggs get the impression that something
is very, very wrong. And we have a SoundBite from
Tony about calling the district attorney himself. He's his child's
only advocate. Right now.
Speaker 8 (22:02):
I was spoken with the district Attorney, Vernon Stewart, and
I say, well, Christian was shot in the back. Why
isn't this man hasn't been charged? He said, well, I
can't just charge a man for shooting somebody in the back.
And I say, well, under what pretenses can you tell
me it's acceptable to shoot a man in the back?
Speaker 7 (22:20):
And his response was, I'm not going to fuss with you.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Do they give you a reason why they're not going
to press.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
Charges with them out Because Pat Chisenhall said that Christian
tried to break into their home, they were going to
try to use the castle doctor and in Christian's.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Case, the self defense story here of I'm going to
use the castle doctrine. My home was threatened. Someone was
coming in and threatening me, and so I have the
right to shoot them. It is important to mention that
North Carolina is a Second Amendment state and guns are
a huge part of the culture there. I lived there.
(22:56):
I had a gun in my home when I lived there.
So this idea of the castle doctrine, it's not far fetched,
you know, protecting your home, protecting your family, that is
something that makes sense to a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah, one of the things that we definitely wanted to
talk about in the town was this story centers around guns,
and it does center around the castle doctrine and the
right to defend yourself. And these are the questions that
this story raised, and so we definitely wanted to speak
to the people in town to get their opinions on these.
Speaker 9 (23:24):
I carry a gun one hundred percent of the time.
You know, it's just for a putition, That's all it's for.
You know, I've never come across any one like that.
I hope I'll never have to come across in the
order to use a gun, you know what I mean. Now,
I rather talk a situation now they'll walk away from
it and then have to pull the gun out and
use it.
Speaker 7 (23:43):
I have anyone to pull it out.
Speaker 9 (23:44):
And use it on me, you know, I rather do
that at the end of the thing gots.
Speaker 7 (23:49):
So it's one of the first choices.
Speaker 9 (23:52):
The last choice these no gun is the last choice
to be. You know, a lot of times I think
you should be able to walk away for a situation
anything else. You know, that's the last thing you want
to do. Someone you get here in the process or
anything like that.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
He'll say, you.
Speaker 9 (24:07):
Don't want to get hear nobody, they don't want to
nobody hurt you. Well, you will protect you and your family.
That's anyone in the wee gonna do that.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
Here's that word family again, protect you and your family.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yes, patchisen Hall states over and over again that protecting
his daughter his daughter's terror. There's a lot of emphasis
put on what Katie is feeling and his desire to
protect her, which is totally understandable, especially if your daughter's
in the process of leaving her partner who you both
(24:41):
feel threatened by, and so hearing people say I have
to protect my family, I have to protect my family.
White families are given the ability to do that. They
are given coverage by the Castle doctrine. We just heard
from a black man in North Carolina who says that
he carries a gun for the very same reason. But
(25:01):
would he be granted the same grace that Patchisenhall is
granted if it were his family, right.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
I think that's a good point because we spoke to
black people on the street, we spoke to white people
in the street, and I felt that almost everybody we
spoke to had guns, and they all felt that it
was their right to protect themselves and their.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Families with those guns.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
With those guns, they would have every right to use
them if they felt that their life or their family
safety was at risk. But all the people we spoke
to were also very responsible. They all said, this should
be the last reason I don't want to find out.
I don't want to be in that position where I
have to use my guns.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
He's talking about de escalation, global de escalation.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
And the proximity of guns to a problem obviously makes
the likelihood of death or seriously bodily harm makes it skyrocket.
You know, Patchisenhall didn't have guns in his home, this
domestic fight would have still occurred, but Christian's death wouldn't
have happened. I just still have trouble wrapping my head
around how it goes from being a verbal argument on
(26:04):
Tuesday to death on Saturday. But I mean that's what
this entire series is about, you know, it's unraveling the
yarn ball and trying to figure out where everything fits
because it still doesn't all these years later. But when
we look at the medical examiner's report, I mean, I
know we aren't lawyers or law enforcement, but does the
(26:25):
castle doctrine still apply?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I mean, from my understanding, no, I mean it's one
thing if somebody is actively breaking into your home, but
if somebody is leaving your home. If somebody is retreating,
if somebody is moving away, you are no longer in danger.
Your home is no longer in danger. I think the
interesting thing again about the castle doctrine is that it's
saying that you don't have to prove that you're afraid
for your life, because if somebody's breaking into your house,
(26:49):
you're presumed be afraid for your life and can take
defensive action, including killing someone.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Now what's interesting about this castle doctrine, though, was this
was pretty new. This castle doctrine only passed in North
Carolina while Christian was in Iraq, and so while he
was deployed overseas, this legislation was passed. He comes home
and very quickly becomes a victim of it. And you know,
it's a great defense for pat Chisenhall because there is
(27:21):
damage to the property, there is a domestic disagreement that's happening.
I mean, all signs point two castle doctrine can play here.
But it's the shots in the back, Yeah, you know,
it's this medical examiner's report. It's her discomfort with the
way this case is being played out, which prompts her
to write further letters and affidavits because something is clearly
(27:45):
wrong here. Well, we're going to further dig in the
next episode. We've gotten Pat's side, We've gotten the Griggs side,
we have the medical examiner's report, we have law enforcement
saying there's no there there we can't prosecute. And so
when these new players like Lee Dunny and Robbie Jessup
(28:06):
enter into the equation, all of a sudden, the narratives
start falling apart, and that is where we're going to
go next week. That's it for this week's episode of
True Crime Story It Couldn't Happen Here, But be sure
to join us next week as we dive deeper into
the Christian Griggs case.
Speaker 5 (28:27):
What the heck is a private investigator? That's always like
the big one. I'm a private investigator. We see it
in the movies so often, and it's like, what do
they do?
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Join us next week as we continue to roll up
our sleeves and dig in. Thank you so much for
joining us. If you haven't watched Sundance TV's True Crime
Story It Couldn't Happen Here, you can catch all of
our episodes streaming on AMC Plus. For more information about
this and other cases we've covered follow at I See
(28:58):
HH stories on Instagram. True crime story It Couldn't Happen
Here was produced by Mischief Farm in association with Bungalow
Media and Entertainment, Authentic Management Productions, and Figdonia in partnership
with Sundance TV. Executive producers are me, Hillary Burton, Morgan
Liz Deccessor, Robert Friedman, Mike Powers, and Meg Mortimer. Producers
(29:24):
are Maggie Robinson Katz and Libby Siegel. Our audio engineer
is Brendan Dalton, with original music by Philip Radiotis. We
want to say a special thank you to everyone who participated,
but especially the families impacted by our cases.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Okay,
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