Stephanie brings us up to speed on the latest in the Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively case. Laura Cheatham — licensed mental health counselor, trauma specialist, and psychology professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice — breaks down what Borderline Personality Disorder is and how it could possibly affect Travis Decker, the man accused of killing his three daughters. Plus, we've got your dose of wild Florida-man chaos. Tune in for all the details.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk
true crime all the time. It is officially Thursday, June fifth,
our last show of the week. Make sure you come
back and join us on Sunday. We're here Sunday through
Thursday for two hours live, so we have a stacked
night of headlines tonight. I mean Banana's new testimony at
the Diddy trial. Cassie Ventura, Diddy's X had several friends
(00:43):
take the stand and it's pretty explosive, and also Karen Reid.
They were out of court today because of the heat.
But we need to really catch you up because we
didn't talk about it last night, because several experts have
taken the stand and honestly tons to unpack there, and
of course updates on the fugitive father accused of killing
his daughters. He remains at large. We want you to
(01:04):
stay vigilant and we will discuss that later in the
show as well. But first, I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I
head up KAT Studios, where we make true crime podcasts
like The Idaho Massacre or The piked In Massacre and
Runner one oh one, and I get to do that
alongside Courtney Armstrong. She's also a producer and host who
(01:24):
voices many of our podcasts. And then of course Body Movin,
who also has been in our podcast but also you'll
recognize her from the Emmy Award winning documentary Don't Have
with Cats. So, ladies, there's so much to unpack today.
Where should we begin? On the Diddy trial? Body, oh, Diddy,
Diddy Diddy? Come enough the Diddy right?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
And if I never heard the word Diddy after he's
after this is over, it'll be too soon. So testimony
continue today, in of course, his federal trial with Cassie
Ventura's like pretty much her best friend Brianna Bonna, Okay,
so I'm just gonna call her Bona. That's like what
she goes by, so let's just respect that and call
(02:07):
her Bana. She took the stand for the second day
in a row. She testified yesterday as well, and yesterday
she testified that Ditty dangled her over a balcony. Yes
like by seventeen stories yeah, seventeen stories up in the air,
and then threw her onto some patio furniture, and she
was like injured from this, and.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Of course absolutely terrified. We're going to get into that.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Prosecutors alleged that from just as an overview, for the
last twenty years he Didty has operated like a criminal enterprise.
He's being charged with federal racketeering and sex trafficking. So
if he's found guilty of these charges, he's going to
be in prison for the rest of his life. Bona,
she's a fashion designer. She testified that her and Cassie
(02:51):
hung out and used drugs frequently. Why Cassie was dating Ditty? Okay,
no shame there, I get it. She also recalled witnessing
all a lot of the abuse. She saw them throw
knives at each other, she said, which is, you know,
horribly toxic. She recounted that in twenty sixteen, did he
stormed in like he stormed into Kassie's apartment, picked her
(03:13):
up and dangled her over the balcony again, seventeen floors
up in the air, shouting at her, you know what
you did? Meanwhile, She's like, I have no idea what
I did? How terrifying. Would that be petrified?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Now? Didn't sug Night also do that with Vanilla Ice? Yes, yes,
infamously famously Yes, Yeah, I know exactly the informant from
behind bars that Sugar Night. Yes, he's weighing in regularly
about this case, right, I mean, that's just kind of crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
So he eventually threw her onto the balcony furniture, and
like I said, he there were bruises on her body.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
And she even had a neck injury from this. Doesn't
it feel like her injuries just are relentlessly reported by everyone.
I mean, I think that's something that everybody pretty much
agrees on, right, that it was drug fueled and that
she was getting beaten up all the time, and that
black eyes were regular, and yeah, you talk about this
knife fight. At some point, Diddy literally threw a knife
(04:08):
at her and then she, like a little ninja, threw
it right back. Yeah, both times they missed. But that's
so toxic to your photoxic beyond measure.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Like if I was in that kind of relationship, I'd
be like, Okay, there's nothing that I can do. I
have got to get out of here. But I digress.
I'm not definitely not blaming her. She also testified you
guys that her and Cassie were in Malibu Diddy with
Diddy and they were like just taking photos on the beach,
you know, the being girls, right, and Diddy like storms
up to her and says again, she says she doesn't
(04:40):
know why, and says she got in his face or
he got in her face. I'm sorry and said I'm
the devil and I could kill you. That seems what
could do it to me?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Like?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Absolutely wackuad do If any of this is true, Diddy
is like a crazy person, like out of control, psycho
like just crazy behavior in now Here's the thing though,
In November of last year, Bana filed a lawsuit against
Diddy demanding ten million dollars okay, and that civil suit
(05:12):
is still pending, and she said that she's not being
there's no financial benefit for her to be testifying at
this trial, but that that that lawsuit is still pending.
I just thought it was interesting to mention.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
That because that's brought up quite a bit too. Yeah,
this civil lawsuit, I think, you know, listen, here's the
thing about these lawsuits, and we should have a lawyer
on to really unpack this they sign NDA's right, So
that seems to be a name of the game in
Diddy world, is that everybody has to sign an NDA,
which is, you know, short for a non disclosure agreement exactly,
(05:43):
a non disclosure agreement meaning anything that happens here you
cannot talk about or you'll be sued. And you know,
our understanding is that was applied to Cassie, his ex
as well, until she filed her civil lawsuit in November
of what three, twenty twenty four, Yeah, just last year.
She had this civil lawsuit and it was pretty clever
(06:03):
because in that lawsuit, which becomes public record, she accounted
for some of the abuse she endured and that was
sort of the crack that sort of broke the dam
and the water has since flushed in followed by the raids,
and so a civil lawsuit also puts things on record
(06:23):
and kind of is a workaround an NDA.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Right, So during cross examination, they've kind of brought all
these inconsistencies up all right, So Diddy's lawyers are questioning her.
It's cross it's hostile, you know, everything that you can imagine,
and they apparently there's some there's some contention on whether
or not Cassie actually saw Bona being held over the balcony,
and there's some inconsistencies that they brought They brought up
(06:48):
and they also asked her about. In January of twenty
twenty four, prior to her filing the lawsuit, she sent
a demand letter that claimed Diddy groped her before lifting
her up over the balcony, allegations that were not mentioned
during her testimony. So that they're basically calling her out
for leaving that out of her testimony. So that we're
(07:09):
going to see how that ends. We don't know yet.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
There's so much unfolding. So body, what struck me unbelievably
was during Bonna's testimony during the cross examination, did he
was he was quote vigorously nodding and making all this
eye contact with the jurors. And this happened just before
the lunch break, and the judge said there was absolutely
no contact with the jury. If he did it again,
(07:33):
he'd be thrown out of court.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, it happened twice. Wow, this happened twice. So apparently
during Bona's testimony, did he looked at the jurors and
you know, we're not in the court room and there's
no television. This is all just recounted. But he apparently
looked at the jurors and like shook his head like no,
I'm guessing right. That just says shook his head vigorously
at the jurors. And this happened twice, and the judge
(07:57):
warned him that he would remove him from his own
trial if he continued to behavior, and he said, on unquoting,
there should be no efforts whatsoever to have any interaction
with this jury, because you know that could be like intimidation.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, I mean, where is victim number three? Where he
is victim number three who was on the docket. And
for those of you who don't know this, there have
been several victims that were identified in the press. Victim
number three is what was one that we'd been hearing about.
And now they're suddenly like not in the party anymore.
Either they're just bailing on their story or you know,
(08:30):
the rumor would be that they were gotten to. By
the way, can you imagine being a jury You're there
in the jury stand facing Diddy, knowing these allegations that
are happening. If he gets off again, dangerous, you know,
I would literally have a paper bag over my head
and give them so much credit for doing the job
of all of us.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Yeah, because all this testimony shows that did he seems
to have no problem intimidating violently and going after people,
I mean honesty estimony. You know, she said she had nightmares,
she was having paranoia, She's to scream in her sleep
a lot, like his actions had these ripple effects in
(09:10):
people's lives.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Right, Another woman testified Jane and that's like, apparently, is
that that's a pseudo name. I'm a yeah, that's just
like victim number two, victim number two. So Jane was
actually in a relationship with Ditty starting in twenty twenty,
and she's a single mom. She meets Ditty. Can you
imagine you meet like a famous rapper who's extraordinarily wealthy,
(09:32):
You're a single, struggling mom, and all of a sudden
you have this, like all this attention from this like,
you know, really desirable person, Like that's got to be overwhelming.
While her and Ditty kind of kept things on the
download because he was still seeing other women, like of course,
because men's sock right, I'm kidding me and I'm joking,
and you know, so they kept it kind of on
(09:54):
the download. But as the relationship progressed, they started spending
more time having some sexy time, and then of.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Course the free coughs.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
She started coming or he started demanding, basically that she
started coming to these freak offs and having these twenty
hour long sex sessions with other men while he watched.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And she said.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Sometimes they would go through dozens of bottles of baby
oil in one night.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
He did baby oil Johnson and Johnson's very specific unbelievable, Yeah, unbelivable. Yeah,
and remember how those hotel rooms, I mean, these were
all staged and choreographed sexual events too. These weren't like
spontaneous moments between people who really loved each other. Now,
this was like a sex play and the only difference
was Diddy was recording it and would ultimately allegedly use
(10:44):
that as ammunition.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah, she said they used like twenty four bottles wow
of baby oil in a single night, and he Diddy
would often require her to have sex with multiple men
over the course of these sessions that would last twenty
four to thirty hours.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I mean, oh, imagine, you know, it's so interesting, you know,
did he has an interesting backstory? This is something we
should get into maybe on our Sunday show where we
can really unpack a little of the backstory. But do it,
you know, if you guys don't know. His mother is
an interesting kind of piece of this puzzle. She's very
that she's known for her blonde wigs in her white
nail polish. Many of his girlfriends say that he really
(11:23):
prefers them in this particular white cream nail polish. His
dad was allegedly involved with some sort of drugs and
organized crime in New York back in the day and
was killed when he was two years old. There's some
meat on the bone there that you know, is just
worth unpacking.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
I think it is a really complicated backstory to what
we're witnessing today. Later in the show, we're going to
be discussing the horrifying story of Travis Decker. He's the
father accused of killing his three daughters and then going
on the run. We will be joined by a mental
health expert to talk a little bit more about that case.
And we're all so going to be discussing the latest
(12:02):
in the retrial of Karen Reid, and we'll be hearing
from you true crime tonight.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
That tragic case of Travis Decker. He's the accused father
of killing his three daughters. We're trying to get the
word out there because he remains at large. And we're
also going to have an expert on to sort of
break down whatever mental problems or mental health issues he
was having and see where we can find that and
understand it better in our own lives. And then just
(12:40):
the latest on Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. Come on,
we can't get enough of that. It's been a minute.
We might as well bring everybody up to speed on
that as well. But first we actually have our talk
back of the first little stretch of the show, so
we received this earlier today. So yeah, let's play.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Hey True Crime tonight. It's Aaron from New York. I'm
loving your podcast and I have you preset. So I
believe that Karen Read is innocent, but I have to
admit that the dogfight story seems a little flimsy. I
don't think Karen did it. But other than the dog story,
do you have any theories on what could have gone
down inside the house that led to jonal keystuff. I'll
be listening to hear what you think.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Thank you feature. It is the best and listen. Anyone
can always send us a talkback message when you're listening
to us in the iHeartRadio app, just click on that
microphone icon. It's in the top right corner. We'll get
it played on the air. And you can also set
True Crime Tonight podcast as a preset. Then you won't
miss anything. But Aaron from New York love this question.
(13:38):
I am also with you. I also think Karen Reid
in this moment is innocent. If I had to say, what.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Oh my goodness, you say it louder for the back
of the room.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
And the dog bite. It has been confusing, and we're
going to get a little bit deeper into the testimony
that just has occurred from the expert. But what I
think happened was that there was something messy that happened
in the house with John O'Keefe and his fellow officers,
that there was an altercation. I think it possibly involved
(14:11):
another officer, Brian Higgins, who has testified that he has
had a very flirty, sexy relationship with Reid, including a kiss.
And I think that it's actually a cover up and
that Curra Read is being accord show.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Let the record show. I mean, look, I think this
is really a look at the brotherhood of law enforcement
in certain places, right. You know, on the one hand,
this is a group of men who put themselves on
the line on a daily basis. So this is not
any comment on that. It's just an observation that this
particular crew seemed pretty darn tight and they look out
(14:48):
for each other, and some of this is just not
adding up. Have you guys seen the video of the
surveillance video of them in the final moments at the
Waterfall Bar where Higgins, all the whole crew was drinking
with Karen Reid and John O'Keeffe the victim, and again,
our hearts are with his family. Let that not be
(15:08):
left out of this. Sometimes he just becomes a footnote, right,
It's like shocking. But all that to be said, they
literally have them at the bar, and there is these
interesting intersections between this Brian Higgins, who was having these
you know, text exchanges, et cetera with Karen Reid that
were sexy, and John O'Keefe they were like squaring off.
(15:29):
You could see and look they are either you know,
it's Boston, you know they're all I'm from Long Island.
I can say this. You know, it's to make us tumble,
you know, a little russell could break out over salami,
you know. So does it look like they were contentious?
Who knows, But it did look like they'd been boozing
and there was some friction in the air. And maybe
(15:51):
more importantly, this was about an hour before the alleged accident. Literally,
John O'Keefe is like being very loving with Karen Reid.
They didn't look like they were arch enemies. And that's
the story that law enforcement is saying, is that Karen
Reid and her you know then boyfriend were like contentious
and they were having a fight that night. I don't know,
it doesn't totally appear that way on that footage.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Yeah, And just as to catch anyone up who's not
totally conversant in this, Karen Reid has been accused of
hitting her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe with her SUV,
and this happened after the night of drinking we were
just talking about. The allegation is she backed up over
him with her SUV. She left him outside in the
(16:34):
snow to die. Her defense says she is being framed
by the Norfolk. Excuse me, my Northeast accent comes out
when I think about this case Norfolk County law enforcement.
And the allegation of the defense is again that she
went into this house instead of being left at the
bottom of the driveway, walked up to the house, an
(16:54):
altercation happened, potentially Chloe the dog was involved, and here
we stand, Wow, what else happened? Well, the testimony of
doctor Marie Russell happened. And this was yesterday because today
there was no trial. It was too hot in the courtroom,
So no court today, but lots of hot testimony in
the days preceding it. So doctor Russell, she is a
(17:18):
former Massachusetts officer and a professor at USC with ps
almost thirty years of experience in the er. So this
is the expert on the dog bites. And she says
that the wounds on victim John O'Keefe's right arm were
from quote, multiple strikes from a dog and that his
injuries were the result of dog bites or claw marks.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
And by the way, where is the dog, Oh.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Chloe, the German shepherd? Where's Chloe? Chloe is up in Vermont,
last I've read, and was rehomed after this incident, And
I do you guys know when, Like, I want to
know if it was the next day, a month, after
two months, if anyone knows, give us a call eight
at eight three one a crime because I want that
(18:04):
very specific timeline and I haven't been able to find it.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
But doesn't that seem that to me alone is so odd.
I don't want to say suspicious, because again, alleged, alleged, alleged,
But ultimately, you know, we're talking about a group of
friends that have all worked together in law enforcement, you know,
thickest thieves. Dare I say? And Karen was like legit,
the girlfriend outsider who apparently was sexy texting with you know,
(18:28):
most of them at some point, and like, look, the
lead investigator got tossed out because within sixteen hours of
him being assigned the case of Karen Reid, the lead investigator, Proctor,
he was literally texting that she's a C word and
that you know, she should kill herself, like really inappropriate
(18:49):
text and also you know, commenting on how hot she
was and is, and you know it's also convoluted. How
could you possibly assume that there's some kind of a
valid investigation when all the players are doing naughty stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
And to do this in the investigation of a fellow cop.
That's so disrespectful, like they're investigating listen, I think cops
should give everybody the same respect. Of course, this is
a fallen brother right, like don't I don't want to
hear how they're a band of brothers or anymore. Like
after this investigation, I don't believe them. I just don't
(19:25):
believe them. But Boddy, that is actually absent everything else.
That's what really peaked my spidey sense that there was
something happening behind the scenes, because they I trust they
would have yeah, but douc Yeah, to just keep up
on doctor Russell. She continued by saying that if victim
John O'Keefe was hit by the SUV, she would have
(19:48):
thought that there were bone fractures or at a minimum
some more bruising. So that was her testimony. The prosecution
made a lot of hay and said she shouldn't be
an expert.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
A thirty years as an er, she has seen multiple, multiple,
multiple injuries and I thought they're trying to get The
prosecution fell a little flat for me, saying you don't
belong here.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
And by the way, I thought this was slightly interesting too.
The prosecution against Karen Reid is saying, oh, well, if
the dog bite thing was legit, there would be DNA
on his clothes or something, right, which is an interesting point. However,
that particular expert disagreed with that. And by the way,
they also allegedly found pig DNA on the clothes. Yeah,
(20:31):
that's what I thought.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
I had asked that the other night, and it was
weird some kind of So what the theories online that
I'm hearing is that?
Speaker 2 (20:39):
And I think this is silly.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
But the dog, the German shepherd, had like a pig
ear like you know those chews that the dogs have, Yes,
and that's why they found pig.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
D Oh that might track.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Actually, that could track.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
It's right. We should have Joseph Scott Morgan, let's get him,
kind of Joseph as our friend, let's get it. And
also the snowplow guy, right, the snowplow guy, that's a
big piece of this equation.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Yeah, Brian, his name Brian, he goes by Lucky Lochrin.
He testified. I found him to be incredibly credible. So
he was driving a bloat a snowplow on this very
stormy night where John o'keats's death will call it occurred.
And he testified that he began his shift at two
(21:23):
thirty am and his plow has very bright lights for
anyone who lives in a cold place, you know that
they're so bright like it's a spotlight, and that he
did not see a six foot one, two hundred and
fifteen pound man when he was driving by. He then
also asserted that he saw what he called an out
of place ford Edge vehicle in the road at about
(21:46):
three point thirty when he came back to do his
second plow, and he made note of that. And then
when he came by at six fifteen for his third pass,
the road was blocked off by police.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
And by the way, this is Symbo who knows the family.
So the house that they were at, like he knew
them really nicely. That's the Albert home. And you know
his job is to be looking for things in the
road during the snowstorm. You know, those trucks have huge
lights on it, right. His actual job is to make
sure he's not scooping up a raccoon or you know,
looking out for wildlife for other people's cars and does
(22:20):
this you know, route very often, So, yeah, that's a
curious piece of it, let alone the inverted footage of
the car, which is yeah, so basically the surveillance, the
footage within the precinct of the vehicle and the tail
light when presented it had been inverted. And this came
(22:41):
up in court as well, and it had been inverted,
which really does change the perspective of who was doing
what and like, how is that? Okay? Yeah, I don't know.
I don't think it is. We're going to find out.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
We're going to be continuing to follow the really tragic
story of Travis Decker, a father accused of killing his
three daughters last week and he's still on the run.
We're going to have mental health expert Laura Cheatham. She's
going to join us and talk about his diagnosed borderline
personality disorder. And then we're going to be hearing about
the latest feud in the Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni case.
Is Lively about to lose her bff? Stay right here
(23:14):
True Crime tonight.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
You know, accused dad Javis Decker on the loose after
allegedly killing his three daughters, and he's apparently been diagnosed
with bipolar disease, and you know, that's serious stuff, and
we're going to have an expert on to sort of
unpack that a little bit for us. But you know, body,
where should we start with this?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yeah, so really quick, I just wanted to let everybody
know this is we're going to be having a discussion
about mental health struggles and like really horrific, horrible violence
against children, which many may find disturbing. You know, listener,
discretion is strongly advised. We care about you here at
True Crime tonight, and we want everybody to maintain their
mental health. So, yeah, this is very tragic and I'm
(24:02):
going to try to get through it as quickly as
possible because it is absolutely terrible. Former Army ranger. His
name is Travis Decker. He's a father. He picked up
his kids on Friday and he was supposed to return
them at nine pm. They are aged five, eight nine,
and they never returned and the mom called the police.
(24:24):
She kind of wanted an amber alert issued, but you know,
it didn't meet the criteria for an Amber alert because
there wasn't necessarily an abduction. So there's a whole conversation
to be had about, you know, the amber alert criteria.
Which we're not going to get into right now, but
that's a whole nother separate conversation we really should. Yeah,
So then you know, they issued an endangered child alert
(24:45):
and a man hunt began for these children. They found
his truck in like a at a campground, and nearby
the truck they found the three little girls. And I
don't want to get into any worry details, but it's
pretty horrific. And so now Travis da is on the run,
apparently on foot. And the thing to know about Travis
(25:05):
Decker is that he's still on the run and he's
you know, been trained in like mountain survival, so he
has the ability to possibly survive in the wilderness. And
the area of Washington in which all this occurred is
pretty rural, and I mean it's quite beautiful and stunning,
you know. It pictured like the rolling hills, mountains and
pine trees everywhere. It's just breathtaking. He could be literally anywhere.
(25:29):
There was a report yesterday that he might have been
seen in Idaho, and authorities have come out and said
that that has actually not been substantiated in any way,
something that we reported on last night. So they're still
kind of looking in the area that he was last seen,
and in fact, they've closed that area so that they
can search it extensively. So please google, you know, Travis Decker,
(25:51):
get his image in your head and be on the
lookout for him. He was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder
and that's something that we're going to be talking about
later on in the segment. But you know, he his wife,
his ex wife, actually said that he had stopped taking
his medication and that this could be some sort of
psychosis event that's happened. And you know, our heart just
(26:13):
goes out to this mom. She's lost her entire world.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Right, honestly, we should all just like mentally throw her
so much.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Love, oh collectively. You know, she has a GoFundMe which
I would love to promote. So please go and look
for her GoFundMe and help her in any way that
you can.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Absolutely, But now, Stephanie, uh, do we have our guest?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah? You know. In fact, you know, listen, this story
is such a dark one, so is there something that
can be gleaned from it? Right? So mental health that's
at the core of this. A sane person does not
do this, right, Somebody who's not really having a mental break,
I would assume. So, you know, we thought we would
bring on really the best of the best in terms
of experts. So we're joined by John Jay College of
(26:55):
Criminal Justice, Psychology professor and licensed mental health health counselor
and trauma specialist, Laura Cheatham. Laura, can you hear us?
Speaker 6 (27:05):
Hi?
Speaker 7 (27:05):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (27:05):
Hi, Laura, Thanks so much for having me on.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, thank you for joining us. You know, listen, we
know this is a very grizzly tale, and again, you know,
what can we what can we glean from this, right,
because it seems as though, I mean, look, these types
of crimes, you know, killing your own kids, there has
to be some sort of mental psychosis happening. I would
assume he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, as you know
(27:30):
his mom online personality I'm sorry, a borderline personality disorder.
And you know mom had raised the flag beforehand and
wasn't really comfortable with sending the kids. But again, you know,
it's it's complicated stuff.
Speaker 6 (27:44):
Right, and I'm so glad to be able to have
a chance to get into all of this as we
talk about it. And I mean, first of all, I
just want to say my condolences to the family, the
mother of the children. I mean, I imagine that the public
as well as having their own kind of vicarious trauma
reaction as well, kind of trying to grasp for some
(28:07):
kind of understanding. I mean, this is unimaginable, what an
incredibly awful thing to happen, right.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
It's too much, It's just unfair beyond measure.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Yeah, So what is borderline personality disorder? How does somebody
get diagnosed?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Like? Are there symptoms that people should be aware of?
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Sure? So, I mean I guess the first thing is
to really break down like our understanding of like the
difference between a personality disorder and another type of disorder,
something like depression or anxiety. So our personality is pretty set,
you know, if you imagine it almost is like snowball,
you're packing in snow. At the beginning, this would be
(28:48):
like a young person, a child. You can't really diagnose
with a personality disorder just yet, they're still developing. But
over time you pack in more snow, it gets in
it's more set. So as we get older, we have
our personalities pretty established. So something like borderline personality disorder
(29:09):
isn't something that would come out of just nowhere. Studies.
Endless research shows that this particular diagnosis is something that
comes in the aftermath of trauma, typically sexual abuse, physical abuse,
childhood abandonment, other personality disorders. There might be more biological origin,
(29:31):
a combination of that and experiences. What we do know
about BPD is that there is a history of trauma, undoubtedly.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
So well, he was an army ranger, and is my
understanding he did see combat, So is it possible it
came from that kind of situation.
Speaker 6 (29:49):
So my thinking is by then he would have already
been nineteen twenty results, So I would imagine because it
sounded like he was involved in of combat, that there
was some kind of exacerbation. And so if we kind
of zoom out on this case, I'm I'm really thinking
borderline is likely. In the soup. People are really wanting
(30:13):
to point to something to get an understanding, right, Well,
these kinds of cases are just so incredibly complex that
to point to just one thing is just not going
to be able to get us there.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
I think that's even really fair thing.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
I think that's completely for people that are on medication.
You know, I have a great friend Haines. She's a
wonderful person and she stays on medication and she's perfectly normal.
Like I hate, I hate to use the word normal
because it's not. I'm not an ablest, but you wouldn't know.
She's completely you know, productive in every way possible. But
if you go off the medication, this kind of thing
(30:50):
can happen, right, Like, it can kind of take over.
Speaker 6 (30:53):
Right Yeah, I mean we probably know people with borderline.
They're in our lives, we have with there are in
our communities. The medication piece I'll get to in a bit,
but to give a little background, you asked about symptoms.
The primary thing is, uh, you're going to see instability,
(31:15):
and I think, uh, unfortunately, what we see a lot
in the rhetoric around talking about borderline is it it
gets kind of thrown around as like a really stigmatizing term,
almost like a synonym for crazy, and it's really unfair
and it takes away I think also from really being
(31:35):
able to understand like, uh, this is a complex disorder
that when we talk about trauma that of course evokes
like compassion from people, But for some reason, when we
use this word borderline, uh, it starts to change the
way the narrative goes and part of the reason for
that is because it can be really difficult to have
(31:58):
relationships with people with this diagnosis because of the symptoms.
It's really marked by a sense of instability. You'll see
volatile emotional swings, very quick changes in how they see themselves,
how they see others, and it can be really startling
(32:19):
and frightening for them as well. That they often complain
about that volatility. It's uncomfortable, would be putting it lightly.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Well, Listen, this has been so enlightening, Laura. We want
to thank you so much for joining us, for shedding
a light and giving us a little bit further of
an understanding of borderline personality disorder. It is very misunderstood,
so we're so grateful to you. And just as a reminder,
(32:49):
Laura is a licensed mental health counselor. If you'd like
to contact her, her website is Laura Chatham LMHC dot com.
And we want to hear your thoughts about tonight's stories.
Give us a call eight to a three one crime
so in the Luigi Mangione case, and as a reminder,
he is going to be on trial for shooting CEO
(33:14):
Brian Thompson, the head of United Healthcare, so brand new update.
New details from his alleged manifesto are revealed. Maesto, Yes, prosecutors,
they just released new excerpts and according to the filing,
Mangione's diary entries, they chronicled months of planning. They chronicled
(33:35):
that he also surveilled Thompson near the Midtown hotel where
he was gone down. And that has been a little
bit put together with certain pieces we've been getting that
he was in New York and manngeone was around the area.
But the recent revelation August fifteenth, twenty twenty four, mangones
entry read quote, I finally feel confident about what I
(33:56):
will do. The details are coming together and I don't
feel any doubt about whether it's right slash justified. I'm
glad in a way that I've procrastinated because it allowed
me to learn more about UHC, which stands for United
Healthcare M what ends No, it's crazy. And then just
one more piece of information coming out. It alleges that
(34:18):
Manjun was considering another target at first, but then chose
the health insurance industry and landed on quote the target
is insurance period. It checks every box.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Do we know what the other target?
Speaker 5 (34:32):
Was.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I'm so curious too. I don't know either, not that
I've seen.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
No, this is it's unbelievable, and it does this put
into potentially new light what was going on in Manjuin's brain.
Me too.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
I kind of feel like he was looking for a cause, right,
like if he was looking at another sector, maybe like
another controversial American target, like you know, all Americans are
like my health insurance sucks, Like you know what I mean,
is there another villain that, you know, an American villain,
let's say, right that he was looking at.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yeah, And I'm curious, like why this particular insurance company,
Like why this particular target, Like he didn't really have
an association with.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
It, he didn't, but there they are the largest healthcare
provider in the United States, right, That's why. So I'm
just kind of wondering, like, was he looking to be
kind of like the martyr for the American people of
a cause that they're you know, struggling against and if
and if so, what was the other target?
Speaker 8 (35:35):
I know?
Speaker 4 (35:36):
I mean just the target is insurance, period. It checks
every box. I think it feeds into what you're saying,
body that you know, he wanted to potentially be some
sort of martyr versus an organic and organically grown you know,
hatred or vendetta against health insurance.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
But it's a little bit so confusing, and I guess
I wish we could have doctor Laura Chiaton back on,
because I would have to speaks to mental health again.
Who writes this in a notebook the way he's been doing,
you know, like again, this is not particularly clever if
you're going to commit a major crime and then carry
it with you and carry it with you in a
backpack in your little notebook. And also, this is a
(36:15):
person that comes from privilege, has a great education, do
something great with it, change the world. Listen, I don't
get me on a soapbox here, but we're going to
come right back. I promise we're going to be talking
about Justin Valdoni and the latest developments with Blake Lively.
This is true crime tonight. We talk true crime all
the time. Listen. We've been talking about such heavy stuff
(36:46):
that a little bit of a palette cleanse to hear
about Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni and the saga between
them that never seems to end. There have been some
new developments, if you haven't been playing along with this case.
You know Blake, she's that beautiful actress from from The
Gossip Girl, which I was such a huge fan of.
Generally speaking, I've always been her fan, biggest Oh I.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Love goss I actually just recently rewatched it, probably last year.
The whole thing, soup to nuts.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Soup to nuts so good. And then I am the outsider.
I have money. I know, I don't even know how.
We're friends. We're gonna help to do a full We're
going to do a full bench. It's really good and
she's great in it, and I've always been a fan.
And she's married to of course Ryan Reynolds, the very
famous superstar from you know, Deathpool and so many great movies.
So they're listen, Hollywood elite, even though they're New Yorkers,
(37:40):
but you know, this is the upper echelon of greatness.
And basically Blake live. He stars in a movie called
It's It Ends with Us and it's based on a
really really wonderful book series that really looks out domestic violence.
And Justin BALTONI was the director of this film and
also his company made the film, right, so they purchased
(38:02):
the book. They got the rights to the book. It
ends with us. This they attached Blake Lively. All is
good in the hood, but apparently it got a little
weird on set, and there's very opposing reasons as to why.
Allegedly Blake Lively files a complaint with the studio basically
saying that she felt like it was a hostile work
environment and accuses Justin Baldoni of sexual harassment, which is,
(38:27):
you know, again a big deal. She's claiming masters boundaries
were violated. And then this you know, movie comes out,
and apparently she felt as though she was getting bad
press and you know, online and she was pushing a
few different products and apparently, you know, social media was
backlashing or being rude to her, and she felt it
(38:51):
was a smear campaign from a pr agency hired by
director Justin Baldoni to make her look bad as a
retaliation to the sexual harassment complaint. So there, that's the
that's the state, that's the processes where it all starts, right,
and then he counter sues for four hundred million dollars.
(39:13):
Fun fact, you know, Justin Baldoni's business partner is like
a billionaire. You know, they have unlimited resources and you know,
the words like smear campaign come into play, and and
by the way, we should unpack that too, because the
pr firms it was pretty messy by all accounts. So
this lawsuit goes back and forth, and it's really now
(39:35):
gotten to a fever pitch where jobs are getting lost.
We're being you know, hearing reports at Ryan Reynolds' next film,
the date for it pushed maybe in the wake of
all of this controversy, because what Baldoni's side is saying,
he's the director. He's saying that basically Blake Lively went
in there with the intention of taking over the movie,
(39:57):
and that she was totally a nightmare on set and
took over all the wardrobe, had like last minute script
changes to the bitter end, and was sort of kind
of peer pressuring him into basically doing it her way,
and that he claims these sexual harassment charges were an
attempt to basically get back the rights to the book series.
(40:19):
So basically it ends with us two would be under
Ryan and Blake, not just on Baldoni and his partner
at Wayfair Studio. Are you with me? Does that all track? Yes? Yes,
I'm following.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Yeah, they both are alleging you said smear campaign, which
is a big phrase in this because both sides are alleging,
which is so interesting and Baldoni's what has come out
from Baldoni's side, it feels like a lot of proof
and stuff that's come out in court papers that the
PR management team was indeed willfully trying to smear Blake Lively's.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Oh really, so that's absolutely and like listen some of
the sexual harassment charges And this is where I get
a little triggered from this story, because like listen, these
are real allegations, right, we talk about this very serious time.
If you're putting out a false accusation, you know, if
in fact it is, then you know, what does that
do to the next woman in line or the next
man in line who's filing the wait trum point?
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Right, nobody cares does have the attention that Blake Lily has, right, correct,
And some of her big ticket items for this said
harassment and hostile work environment, where like, for example, one
time she was she had just had a baby and
her you know, she was breastfeeding in her trailer and
according to her, Justin Baldoni kind of barged into the
(41:40):
trailer while she was breastfeeding and she felt like that
was incredibly inappropriate because she was, you know, not fully robed.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
And then he's released the text messages which is basically
her saying, Hey, I'm in my trailer breastfeeding, come in anytime.
So is that a total contradiction, right? Or another example
would be she claimed that some of their like intimacy
and sex scenes, I guess typically you would have kind
(42:08):
of like an instructor on set to coordinator, Yes, an
intimacy coordinator, and she claims that like they didn't do that.
They didn't have this said coordinator, and therefore it felt
like he really came on a little bit hard and
she felt uncomfortable. But again, and they have these text
exchanges of Justin Baldoni saying to her time and time again,
(42:30):
hey I really want to hook you up with the
intimacy coordinator and that she basically like, let that lie,
and it never really happened, And there does appear to
be this back and forth, and there does appear to
be some some ickiness with the PR firms again, like
they're not the PR firm, right, but they hired the
PR firm, And then that's a whole other backstory of messiness.
(42:53):
So today some of the charges from Blake Lively were dropped,
which is sort of this emotional allegation. Yeah, and I
mean it's all spiraling. It's like it seems as though
it was the attempt. This is what's being alleged that
she was trying to take this book series over, figured
this sexual harassment suit would get big press, that would
(43:15):
be the end of it, because Justin Baldoni was kind
of a nobody comparatively speaking. And now it's really like
snowballed to nauseum and now no one can get out
of it alive. Period.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
It's a mess. So Taylor Swift, Stephanie, I've been a
little bit dying to talk.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
They're like all buds. You guys might have heard of
this already, but you know, this is like the finest
New York City crew. It's like the Gossip Girl. In
my head, I feel like we're supposed to go to
dinner with the DG hadd and Taylor Swift and Blake
Lively and the three of us tagging along. It seemed
like they had this like very cool thing happening. And
(43:52):
and by the way, Taylor Swift died the theme song
for the movie, which is a great song. I don't
know wh I'm forgetting the name of it, but it's
really very very good. And allegedly Taylor Swift rolled into
Blake Lively's apartment with Rian and Justin Baldoni. Was invited
over to talk about the script because Blake Lively had
some big ideas about how to change the script, and
(44:14):
he claims that Ryan Reynolds and Taylor Swift kind of
like bullied him into agreeing with these said changes. Right,
so kind of gross, right, that's not ideal?
Speaker 4 (44:27):
Well, she also yeah, they also have that text where
Blake writes to Baldoni basically, you should really really listen
to my ideas because I have my dragons, and she's
evoking great Game of Thrones and her dragons are her
powerhouse husband Ryan Reynolds and her bff Taylor Swift. And
(44:50):
that was more not so much anymore.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Because she kind of retaliated. Taylor Swift was like, uh,
that's not I have no idea what she's talking about.
I lose my number. But they're like incredibly close, isn't
she like the gods? Moo, she's the godmother of all
of Again, we don't know these people, but yeah, all
four of their children. Taylor Swift is the godmother too,
so this is a very close relationship. And apparently Taylor
(45:18):
Swift apparently got roped into this, and Baldoni's lawyers are
saying that Taylor Swift has to hand over text messages,
like ten years worth of text messages that Blake Lively
threatened that she would share to the public if Taylor
didn't put out like something positive about Blake in the
(45:38):
in the public, in the social media, and it didn't
go over very well, know, Taylor is like, no more,
no more, no more.
Speaker 4 (45:47):
Her team's response was kind of brilliant. I won't do
it ver vatim, but you know, they let it be
known clearly, Taylor Swift has never set foot on the
set of the movie. She wasn't involved in any creative decision,
shouldn't even see it until weeks after the public release
because she was traveling on the globe doing the biggest
tour in history.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
The eras that she's been delevanting across the globe for yours.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
I mean, has anybody ever been on tours I went to.
It was fantastic, it was amazing, It was amazing, but
here's the thing, Like, now she Taylor, I mean, uh,
Jake uh. Justin Baldoni is saying, ooh, dial us in
coach because we are a never ending fight, like they
are playing real and hard and tough and there's real
(46:36):
money on the line at this point. And now Blake
Lively has dropped the claims of emotional distress air quotes
that was in her initial claim. And you know, maybe
more significantly, this is really a look at like reputational warfare, right,
It's a it's reputation versus reputation. Also law fair, right,
(46:58):
because Blake Lively.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
Started all this, right, yeah, And now now I feel like,
and listen, I'm not following this.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
I'm learning this. You are now, guys real time.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
And so no, I'm like interested, right, it's law fair,
and she is probably her back is against the wall.
She realizes he's not rolling over and he's countersuing. Now yep,
and her back's against the wall, and she's probably she's
I feel like she's in the wrong.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
No, I know, and I love her too. I'm a fan,
I should say, I don't know her, but I'm like disappointed.
I'm disappointed by all of it. It's like nobody wins
in this. No, but it's tough.
Speaker 4 (47:32):
Even Stephanie, you had mentioned the quote breastfeeding inaccuracies in
terms of her saying it's totally inappropriate to walk in unannounced.
I think everyone could agree with that one hundred percent.
That's fact, and then also a fact that she said, no, oh,
I'm breastfeeding, come in. But I don't know is it circumstantial.
(47:54):
It's like, just because you a woman quote says yes
once doesn't mean it's yes.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Fat It's such a good point. And did she fear
for her safety? And like some of the rumors are
like maybe Ryan, her husband, came to set and saw,
you know, some chemistry between them, and then that got
him a flutter and then he's the one that was
escalating it, and that seems to be sort of the
rumor mill as well. So like even now our beloved
(48:19):
Ryan Reynolds is being roped into this, say it's not
so bigger and messier in one last order of business,
and then I promise to pass the baton. We're here
Sunday through Thursday, so two hours live every night and
Sunday we're doing a real deep dive on all of
the cases. We've been talking about so far, including the
Long Island serial killer, and of course a little bit
(48:40):
more on Luigi manifestos, et cetera. So, but first this,
you know, Blue Barrel Killer. Yeah, record, So it's terrible.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
So his name is Timothy Haslett Junior, and he lives
in Excelsior Springs, Missouri. He is a waiting trial for
the murder of one woman and the kidnapping and rape
of of course the woman he murdered and a woman
that escaped. And this is where we kind of learn
(49:09):
about him. Is this through this escape. It's very harrowing.
So back in twenty twenty two, in October of twenty two,
it's late, you know, late fall. A woman is knocking
on a door feverishly helped me, help me, help me.
The residents open the door and there's a woman standing
there with a metal collar over her neck and kind
(49:34):
of like wearing this black sort of like garbage bag
kind of outfit, and she tells a harrowing tale that
she has been living in a dungeon of this home,
being kidnapped by this guy and he's been trigger warning,
by the way, massive trigger warning here it is, I mean,
(49:56):
countdown here, to five four through two who won. He
has been raping her and withholding food and drugging her
and torturing her with all kinds of implements. Well, so
they go to the house. She, by the way, escaped
this dungeon because Timothy haslet Junior, who's the man accused
(50:19):
of kidnapping her and doing all this to her, has
to take his son to school, his young.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Son who's living in the house. Yes, who's living in
the home.
Speaker 4 (50:28):
While the torture is going on downstairs in the dungeon.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Correct, who is this monster?
Speaker 4 (50:34):
Right?
Speaker 3 (50:34):
Well, and that's the thing, this is why it's kind
of on our radar, is that this is potentially a
serial killer because she tells the story that when she
arrived in this dungeon there was another woman. She said,
he has my friend too, she called, she said, my friend.
While we learn that this woman has been identified, they
(51:00):
found her body in a blue barrel in a in
kind of like a Marshy River kind of area near
Excelsior Springs, Missouri. She her name was I'm sorry, her
name was uh sitting Janie, Janie cross Ail. That's the
woman that was found in the barrel, and the barrel
(51:20):
has been forensically connected to Timothy Haslett. So they they
have indicted him. There was a preliminary hearing like everything.
He has been indicted for this murder, and they suspect
that it's possible there's other victims. Now, if there is
other victims, and of course we have bigger problems with
Timothy Haslett Junior. But yeah, it's very scary. He he's
(51:43):
been indicted. He was indicted in July of twenty twenty four,
and his trial is supposed to begin in December. So
this is something that we're going to be talking about
a lot because I'm following it like a hawk. I've
already signed up for like all the Missouri case Net updates.
I get them every day. I know it's exactly what's
happening in the case. Wow, because this is like something
(52:03):
that's on my radar. And so I mean, just imagine.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
This woman not knowing you. Would you ever? So here's
a really here's a question for you all. Please call
us at eight eight eight three one crime because it's
I'm so divided on this. If somebody knocks on your door,
bangs on your door in the wee hours and is
wearing a thing around their neck and a garbage bag
and they're like help help. We equally hear stories of
(52:28):
you should never open your door to or stranger ever.
And is that the answer because in this case, thank god,
this neighbor actually answered the door that saved her life.
Speaker 3 (52:40):
Right, I don't know, man, I'm a girls girl. I
am one hundred percent of girls girl. I would like
to think that I would, but I mean I have
seen so many like alerts, like don't answer the door
because these people are pretending to be salesmen or whatever,
and they're gonna they're gonna gangbusters you and like come
into your house and you know, kill you. And so
(53:04):
I'm terrified of even looking to see who's at my door.
So I feel like it's you have to keep yourself
like not put yourself in danger, but also to maybe
alert the authorities. Is I don't know if that's my
best guess.
Speaker 4 (53:20):
Yeah, just call and of course, and I mean if
raised a racket, but yeah, it's it's a conundrum. Now.
Body when the other woman who tragically said was referred
to as her friend, which breaks my heart in a
real specific way, when she was found in the barrel,
did has that did they excuse me, Did they accused
(53:42):
also have similar barrels on his home? Is that the link?
Speaker 2 (53:46):
Yeah, like a blue barrel visioning, So yeah, like I
don't even know what I'm picturing. Something from the Western Yeah,
those oil barrels exactly.
Speaker 4 (53:55):
That's right. And then and Timothy has a yeah, I'm
just double checking myself, and he did. He had right,
similar barrels at us home at his home, so that
it's right.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
So they thinked to know more about his background too, well, well,
he his mainly his history of legal issues are like
traffic violations, they're not really you know out, they're not
really crazy.
Speaker 3 (54:19):
He was married, obviously, he has a son. He was
divorced in twenty fifteen, so he was married for quite
some time. He maintains joint legal well, he maintained joint
legal custody of his son and became the primary custodial parents.
So at some point he was the upstanding parent that
took care of this little son.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
This poor child, if that was the case.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
And now wow, right, and he it and you know,
much like a lot of other killers, you know, he
preyed on sex workers, right, you know, and I'm not
here to shame them. Sex worker is work of course,
be you know okay with that? And you know the victim,
by the way, we don't know her name. She he
has been protected. Her identity has been protected because you
(55:03):
know she's we do know that she is struggling.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
I got has she happy? This is such a harrowing event,
and you know you brought up the serial killer part
of it, which you know, I think we're all slightly
oddly fascinated and curious about serial killers in general. So
the criteria for that is it has to be more
than two people, right, so we're looking at three, and
there has to be this what is a very scary idea,
(55:28):
this cool down period.
Speaker 3 (55:29):
This off, this cooling off period. Now she tested well,
she told police. The victim, the twenty two year old
who ran out of the home. She tells the story
that Timothy Haslett Junior confessed to her as he's torturing her,
like you know, if you don't do what I say,
You're going to end up like the two other women
(55:50):
I've killed. So we know about we know about the
blue the woman in the blue barrel who's already been
identified and linked to him. And who's this other girl
who's this other woman. We don't know, and they haven't
found anything yet, but I suspect that they're looking.
Speaker 4 (56:07):
Wow, I'm sure they are. I think we should just
take a really quick moment to honor the victim, Janie Crosdale,
who was found in the barrel, because so often victims
do get lost, and it sounds like she was just lovely.
Family and friends just say she was bright and witty,
full of life, and yeah, she did face some challenges,
(56:31):
but she was a lovely human being.
Speaker 3 (56:33):
So right, she was like really involved with this Relentless
Pursuit Outreach and Recovery, which is an organization that support
individuals facing these kinds of challenges like addiction and homelessness.
And you know a lot of people when they're facing
these kinds of things, they'll turn to sex work because
it's quick money, right.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Absolutely, And so she always don't have options, right, And
so she was a woman that was trying to help
other women get out of this lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (56:58):
And into you know, a more healthy arena. And you
know her, she ends up a victim of this monster
that is potentially a serial killer. He's not right now,
he's just accused of one murder, but of course there's
one murder, two kidnappings, two torturing. You know, there's because
we have Jamie, who's you know, obviously a victim. He's
(57:21):
ended up in the blue barrel. But yeah, I just
it's it's heartbreaking. And you know what's even more heartbreaking
is there there's a reverend in Saint Louis who was
kind of ringing the alarm bells to this and was
kind of getting annoyed.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
And his name escapes me.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
Now I'll have to look it up and get back
to you on this, And he was kind of getting
annored because what he said, and I kind of, you know,
believe him. He was saying that they were just young black,
young woman prostitutes that nobody cared about. And it's heartbreaking.
That's about worse.
Speaker 2 (57:50):
And by the way, we hear this a lot, except
for a Long Island because those Long Island you know,
sex workers that were allegedly killed by the Long Island
serial killer, they were so loved that those moms of
those sex workers at the time really took the narrative
back and were like, oh no, no, I'm not going
to let my daughter get washed away under this like banner.
(58:11):
Oh oh, she was a sex worker. Therefore that's okay
that she was found in a shallow grave. No, it
makes me so infuriated, it does whom My heart really
goes out. And yeah, hopefully they find some justice.
Speaker 3 (58:23):
Well, and the authorities authorities have said they're definitely not
ruling out the fact that he might have other victims.
So I do believe there's still an active investigation. And
I think because he was arrested in twenty twenty two,
so it's been it's been years since he's been arrested,
and I think this might be why. You know, the
trial hasn't happened yet. I mean, they're trying to find
more liv they're trying to find mores. Right well, I
(58:47):
believe right now it's slated for December twenty twenty five,
so for a couple of months the trial should start.
Bishop Tony Coldwell, Yes, and he's fabulous by the way,
if you if you find him on social media, he
does a lot of outreach with that organization that I
had mentioned previously to help women that are suffering with addiction.
(59:09):
He's fabulous, fabulous man.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
Wow, that is.
Speaker 4 (59:12):
A beautiful cause. When we come back, we're going to
switch gears a really hard, right, turn into some stupid
criminal stories that hopefully we can all enjoy and be
glad we're not in their places. We're also going to
be hearing from you about tonight's stories. Give us a
call eight at eight three to one Crime. We are
(59:33):
talking true crime all the time, so keep it here
on True Crime Tonight.
Speaker 2 (59:50):
So we've been talking about so many heavy things right now,
so we're going to try to shake it up a
little bit. We have our talk back. They're calling about
Rex humor Men, the accused Long Island serial killer, and
they left a really interesting message.
Speaker 8 (01:00:04):
Hi ladies, Love you guys and loving this podcast so far.
I had a question about the Rex Hureman case, the
Long Island serial killer, and the admissibility of the DNA evidence.
From my perspective as someone who works in a genetic
testing laboratory, albeit in oncology testing not forensics, it seems
(01:00:27):
so desperate. I wonder what your perspective is.
Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Thinks, God, she's somebody I'd love to pick her brain. Yes,
you have to come on the show some time with us.
Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
So, in summary, I guess the core of the defense's
challenge lies in questioning whether or not the specific DNA
testing protocol is admissible or if it meets the legal
standards in the state of New York. And it's this
S and P testing. And I'm going to be honest.
I mean, listen, we're all laymen, we're not experts in
this and whatnot. So I don't really know what the
(01:01:01):
argument is about the SNP testing, but they do say
it's not meeting the legal standard.
Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
For admiscibility in New York.
Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
And also they're saying, like the hairs that were found
on the victims' bodies, right, they were found on like
you know, and I'm not trying to be gross or anything,
but they were found on like decomposed bodies, right, And
they're saying with the degradation of the bodies could affect
the DNA on these hairs.
Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
So is that desperate? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
I feel like, if I'm on trial for my life, right,
I want my lawyer to use everything in their playbook
to help me get off. Right, So are they desperate?
I think they're probably just doing their job.
Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
But to that point, you know, and I think when
it comes to this DNA type of stuff, and we've
seen this in a few cases. Brian Coberger's case as
well in the Idaho college murders. And this one is
that air quotes junk science. I mean, obviously this has
come so so far and so many things that are
brought into question. Are the chain of custody, right, So
who has the material? Where does a specimen go, where
(01:02:12):
is it tested? How is it tested? Is their handling
of this evidence? Do I think it's desperate? I see
the point. I really do so. I definitely think it's
a really fair question, and it's I have to kind
of like throw it all at the wall, but it's
not super compelling at the same time.
Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
Agreed, Yeah, But I mean also, you know, I would
need to look into this, and I'd be excited to
actually based on this question. But the DNA is not
in it. You know, it's in question in the New
York courts, right, But that's the case for every piece
of new technology in every court of law. So maybe
(01:02:52):
this is accepted in forty nine states. I have no
idea if that's true. But my point is that for
something to meet the level of a missibility in each state,
every single thing needs to go through a new process.
You know, the first time a fingerprint was used now
what's this.
Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
Well, I think with Ted Bundy that was the first
time bite analysis was done.
Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
That's right. I think that's accurate. This is another one
business of Scott Morgan. We have let's get yes, he's
him back on Yeah, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan. This
all has his name written all over it. It really does.
It is. It's a really interesting question. And by the way,
this Long Island serial killer, he claims his innocence, let
the record show. And by the way, his wife, very devoted,
(01:03:35):
has been married to him for decades, is also you
know saying not my man, you know, would never. We
should save some of this for Sunday. Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
Let's let's let's just do a island way because we
have done that yet some some of the people might
not even know what we're talking about. So let's let's
get into this on Sunday when we come back. Great, Yeah,
let's do that.
Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
Okay, fabulous, And this is a great reminder you can
always send us a talk back. That was so intelligent.
We really appreciate it. When you're listening on the iheartradi app,
you just give a click to the microphone icon it's
in the top right corner. But for now, I have
one of the stupid criminal stories that we've been talking about,
(01:04:18):
and I'm not joking. I'd actually maybe like anything killer. Yeah, Yeah,
here's a guy a little lighter. Yeah, I want to
hang out with this guy. Actually. So deputies in Florida
were understandably shocked when a man that they were chasing
they were in pursuit, he literally offered them a drink
(01:04:38):
and then asked if they quote had fun during the
police chase. So yeah, so Florida, Manda, we need always Florida.
So mid chase, he slowed down to offer a vodka
(01:04:58):
spritzer out the window of his car to the pursuing deputy.
That's what I said, I kind of want to go
to a party at this guy's house. What a host
he proceeded. Later, he crashed several miles away. He was apprehended.
The suspect, although I suspect he is. The guy is
thirty nine year old Richard Christopher Smith of Miami. Specifically,
(01:05:22):
so officers they had fully deployed those spike strips, you know,
those horrifying things that you back over in the parking lot.
Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
That's like serious business. Totally serious, very serious business.
Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
So they laid those out, those out. They actually had
to tase him during the arrest, which sounds horrible, but
listen this jovial sir. Once he was arrested, as the
officers at that point, did you guys have fun chasing me?
Which I just I love that. And ultimately, unsurprisingly, he
(01:05:58):
was found he'd stolen a couple of items from a
nearby store, including the booze, so he was offering them.
You know, I guess what would that be, not open
proof of his crime or you know, stuff he had
offered him that he faces d ui. But man, he
was polite and down for the ride. The whole time.
Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
He was polite except for the tasing part. Right that.
Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
I've never experienced a tazing myself, but it sounds horrible. Oh,
I don't want to even I don't even want to.
Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Don't even come near me with that thing, exactly Listen.
I would not survive in jail. I would not last
a day.
Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
Say it's my biggest nightmare.
Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
It'd be more exciting. I have another one out of Florida.
Tell us listen, So what is up with all the
Florida men?
Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Like for real? We need to have my mind.
Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
Well I kind of I kind of looked into it
because I was like, what is going on? Apparently the
FLOYA laws in Florida are a little bit it's easier
to get information, and that's probably why we have all
these stories from Florida, is because it's easier to get
like the anyway.
Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
Right, And the FOYA is the Freedom of Information Act
and just for any crime nerds out there, you can
use you can put into a FOYA to request information
and people use that from different you know, different agencies
will use it and honestly, even look you lose who
are just curious. It's freedom of information so Interestingida.
Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
In each state it has different criteria, Like in Tennessee,
for instance, you can't do a FOYA unless you're a
resident a resident, right, so it depends on where you live. Anyway,
I was just like, nosey, I'm like, what is going
on Florida?
Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Anyway?
Speaker 3 (01:07:44):
I have another Florida man. Okay, this is this one's
out of Alusa County. I hope I'm saying that right.
Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Volution. One of my brothers lives in Lovely Well, maybe
he knows this guy, and hopefully he's not this guy. Actually,
maybe he knows this guy.
Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
So deputies responded to New Smyrna Beach around ninety am
so crack a dawn, Well not really, but early morning
after a vehicle ran through a closed gate with access
to the beach without paying the toll. Okay, so he's
in a truck, he runs through the beach, the Sheriff's
office said. The driver, Jason I'm not going to say
his last name because it's very hard to pronounce, told
(01:08:21):
officials he wanted to drive on the beach. However, the
deputy explained, hey, dude, the beach is closed.
Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
You can't.
Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
You know that it's high tide, you can't be driving
your truck. So they got a video of him and
he's running his truck through the waves in the ocean
and he's like doing donuts on the beach, just being
a total nuisance. And he got arrested. And as he's
getting arrested, he told the deputies he just wanted to
(01:08:49):
surf and it's not his fault his truck can't surf.
Oh right, So he was taken to Walusa County Jail
and let out with a two hundred dollars bond and Jason,
if you're out there.
Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
You got to teach your truck out a surf bud.
I mean, go on, do you have for our well?
I was going to Actually we got hit up on
our socials and had a question about this whole, you know,
justin Baldoni situation. So I'm going to try to read
this out loud. It's not a letter, but it is
on our shutter. I'm the worst reader out loud, so
(01:09:24):
just bear with me, Hay, True crime tonight. I loved
all the gossip about Taylor Swift not texting back Blake Lively.
So basically Taylor just basically dropped ghosts Lively like she
got ghosted. And you know, I understand that. According to
our our lovely social media here from Sylvia Denver, I
(01:09:45):
also think Taylor is being kind of a bad friend.
Shouldn't she have stood up for Blake Lively? I don't know.
Speaker 4 (01:09:52):
I don't know when attorneys are involved and your potentials
at this point, and this whole thing is a disaster.
It's kind of a pox on everybody's house. I hate
to say this, but you know, no, I don't hate
to say it at all. Blake Lively is not like
the shining rose in this.
Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
So why Taylor knows like her friend is a dummy?
Like you brought me into this. Now they want my
text messages for the last ten years. I would be furious.
I would be furious too.
Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
And by the way, friendly reminder, be mindful of what's
in your texts. You know this kind of nonsense. You know,
we keep hearing about this more and more as a
standard for discovery airquots. Discovery it's a very fancy legal
term where they basically say, hey, hand over your phone
because there's a lawsuit. And then you know, things can
be really taken out of context and texts, so you know,
(01:10:41):
as you're texting, just imagine you know, a court of
law reading all of it. Whuh terribly.
Speaker 4 (01:10:48):
That's like all people say to their kids about their iPads.
Anything you look for your principle reading it. So it
is good advice, and yes, so should we all heed
our text messages.
Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Sunday, we're really going to do a big deep dive
on manifestos because our very own body Moven is obsessed.
And also the Long Island serial Killer. We haven't even
touched on that really too much yet, so we'll get
into that more on Sunday as well. More on that
to come. But we also seem you know, our caller
is here right now. What's your question?
Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
Right?
Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Hi?
Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Hello Wade, Hi Wade, what's your question?
Speaker 8 (01:11:33):
So?
Speaker 7 (01:11:34):
I just heard that Luisi Mangioni has received over a
million dollars in donations. I mean, I get how frustrated
folks are with the healthcare system, but what is happening, Like,
when did it become okay to kill somebody?
Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
Thank you? It is that accurate? A million over a
million dollars for a GoFundMe for his defense one million,
one under one thousand and thirty one dollars. You stop,
shut the front door. Really?
Speaker 4 (01:12:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
Yeah, one million, one hundred thousand, thirty one dollars. Meanwhile,
let's not let's not forget that. You know, poor Mattie
Mogan's family, who is a victim in Moscow, Idaho, from
buying Colberger, can barely get twenty thousand dollars to attend
the trial, you know, I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
That's it's sort of Verty's daughter. Yeah, yeah, that's rightfully unbearable.
And to your point, Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonzalvez, his family,
Ethan Chapin's family. They've all, you know, an van Konodles
family in Washington, they've all started these gofundmes so that
they could at least attend this really in jail. Meanwhile, Luigi,
(01:12:42):
who's you know, allegedly a killer? That is really what
do you make now? It's my understanding it's specified for
his defense fund. Is that right? It's not like to
him personally? Is it like?
Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
He can't You can't commit a crime and benefit from
it financially, it's against the law. So this half to
be for his defense fund.
Speaker 4 (01:13:01):
It's for his defense fund. But also he comes from
his background is a lot of wealth and privilege, and
so of all the people who quote need it, I
don't think he's one of them. And I know lawyers
are expensive, but also how many people aren't don't even
(01:13:22):
have the opportunity to choose their own attorneys because they
can't afford them. And kind of you get who you get.
Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
Well, let's not forget either this is a federal attorney.
They're even more costly.
Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Yeah, and it is a federal case, and you know
and and and but true, that's shocking to me. Wade,
great question, and thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (01:13:43):
Ye please thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
Stay stay tuning in. More on this to come, and
listen again. I know I've said this before, but we
have so many things to unpack Sunday, but it's been
our first full week, so thanks for hanging with us,
and yes, we definitely want to hear from you. Eight
eight eight three one Crime On Sunday, we're talking manifestos
Karen Reid, the Long Island serial killer. So our socials
(01:14:07):
are at True Crime Tonight's show, plus at True Crime
Tonight on Facebook. More on that to come. This is
True Crime Tonight where we talk true crime all the time.
And thank you for the wonderful night.
Speaker 4 (01:14:20):
Thank you for the wonderful night and the wonderful week.
Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Yeah, stay safe, everybody,
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk
true crime all the time. It is officially Thursday, June fifth,
our last show of the week. Make sure you come
back and join us on Sunday. We're here Sunday through
Thursday for two hours live, so we have a stacked
night of headlines tonight. I mean Banana's new testimony at
the Diddy trial. Cassie Ventura, Diddy's X had several friends
(00:43):
take the stand and it's pretty explosive, and also Karen Reid.
They were out of court today because of the heat.
But we need to really catch you up because we
didn't talk about it last night, because several experts have
taken the stand and honestly tons to unpack there, and
of course updates on the fugitive father accused of killing
his daughters. He remains at large. We want you to
(01:04):
stay vigilant and we will discuss that later in the
show as well. But first, I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I
head up KAT Studios, where we make true crime podcasts
like The Idaho Massacre or The piked In Massacre and
Runner one oh one, and I get to do that
alongside Courtney Armstrong. She's also a producer and host who
(01:24):
voices many of our podcasts. And then of course Body Movin,
who also has been in our podcast but also you'll
recognize her from the Emmy Award winning documentary Don't Have
with Cats. So, ladies, there's so much to unpack today.
Where should we begin? On the Diddy trial? Body, oh, Diddy,
Diddy Diddy? Come enough the Diddy right?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
And if I never heard the word Diddy after he's
after this is over, it'll be too soon. So testimony
continue today, in of course, his federal trial with Cassie
Ventura's like pretty much her best friend Brianna Bonna, Okay,
so I'm just gonna call her Bona. That's like what
she goes by, so let's just respect that and call
(02:07):
her Bana. She took the stand for the second day
in a row. She testified yesterday as well, and yesterday
she testified that Ditty dangled her over a balcony. Yes
like by seventeen stories yeah, seventeen stories up in the air,
and then threw her onto some patio furniture, and she
was like injured from this, and.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Of course absolutely terrified. We're going to get into that.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Prosecutors alleged that from just as an overview, for the
last twenty years he Didty has operated like a criminal enterprise.
He's being charged with federal racketeering and sex trafficking. So
if he's found guilty of these charges, he's going to
be in prison for the rest of his life. Bona,
she's a fashion designer. She testified that her and Cassie
(02:51):
hung out and used drugs frequently. Why Cassie was dating Ditty? Okay,
no shame there, I get it. She also recalled witnessing
all a lot of the abuse. She saw them throw
knives at each other, she said, which is, you know,
horribly toxic. She recounted that in twenty sixteen, did he
stormed in like he stormed into Kassie's apartment, picked her
(03:13):
up and dangled her over the balcony again, seventeen floors
up in the air, shouting at her, you know what
you did? Meanwhile, She's like, I have no idea what
I did? How terrifying. Would that be petrified?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Now? Didn't sug Night also do that with Vanilla Ice? Yes, yes,
infamously famously Yes, Yeah, I know exactly the informant from
behind bars that Sugar Night. Yes, he's weighing in regularly
about this case, right, I mean, that's just kind of crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
So he eventually threw her onto the balcony furniture, and
like I said, he there were bruises on her body.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
And she even had a neck injury from this. Doesn't
it feel like her injuries just are relentlessly reported by everyone.
I mean, I think that's something that everybody pretty much
agrees on, right, that it was drug fueled and that
she was getting beaten up all the time, and that
black eyes were regular, and yeah, you talk about this
knife fight. At some point, Diddy literally threw a knife
(04:08):
at her and then she, like a little ninja, threw
it right back. Yeah, both times they missed. But that's
so toxic to your photoxic beyond measure.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Like if I was in that kind of relationship, I'd
be like, Okay, there's nothing that I can do. I
have got to get out of here. But I digress.
I'm not definitely not blaming her. She also testified you
guys that her and Cassie were in Malibu Diddy with
Diddy and they were like just taking photos on the beach,
you know, the being girls, right, and Diddy like storms
up to her and says again, she says she doesn't
(04:40):
know why, and says she got in his face or
he got in her face. I'm sorry and said I'm
the devil and I could kill you. That seems what
could do it to me?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Like?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Absolutely wackuad do If any of this is true, Diddy
is like a crazy person, like out of control, psycho
like just crazy behavior in now Here's the thing though,
In November of last year, Bana filed a lawsuit against
Diddy demanding ten million dollars okay, and that civil suit
(05:12):
is still pending, and she said that she's not being
there's no financial benefit for her to be testifying at
this trial, but that that that lawsuit is still pending.
I just thought it was interesting to mention.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
That because that's brought up quite a bit too. Yeah,
this civil lawsuit, I think, you know, listen, here's the
thing about these lawsuits, and we should have a lawyer
on to really unpack this they sign NDA's right, So
that seems to be a name of the game in
Diddy world, is that everybody has to sign an NDA,
which is, you know, short for a non disclosure agreement exactly,
(05:43):
a non disclosure agreement meaning anything that happens here you
cannot talk about or you'll be sued. And you know,
our understanding is that was applied to Cassie, his ex
as well, until she filed her civil lawsuit in November
of what three, twenty twenty four, Yeah, just last year.
She had this civil lawsuit and it was pretty clever
(06:03):
because in that lawsuit, which becomes public record, she accounted
for some of the abuse she endured and that was
sort of the crack that sort of broke the dam
and the water has since flushed in followed by the raids,
and so a civil lawsuit also puts things on record
(06:23):
and kind of is a workaround an NDA.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Right, So during cross examination, they've kind of brought all
these inconsistencies up all right, So Diddy's lawyers are questioning her.
It's cross it's hostile, you know, everything that you can imagine,
and they apparently there's some there's some contention on whether
or not Cassie actually saw Bona being held over the balcony,
and there's some inconsistencies that they brought They brought up
(06:48):
and they also asked her about. In January of twenty
twenty four, prior to her filing the lawsuit, she sent
a demand letter that claimed Diddy groped her before lifting
her up over the balcony, allegations that were not mentioned
during her testimony. So that they're basically calling her out
for leaving that out of her testimony. So that we're
(07:09):
going to see how that ends. We don't know yet.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
There's so much unfolding. So body, what struck me unbelievably
was during Bonna's testimony during the cross examination, did he
was he was quote vigorously nodding and making all this
eye contact with the jurors. And this happened just before
the lunch break, and the judge said there was absolutely
no contact with the jury. If he did it again,
(07:33):
he'd be thrown out of court.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, it happened twice. Wow, this happened twice. So apparently
during Bona's testimony, did he looked at the jurors and
you know, we're not in the court room and there's
no television. This is all just recounted. But he apparently
looked at the jurors and like shook his head like no,
I'm guessing right. That just says shook his head vigorously
at the jurors. And this happened twice, and the judge
(07:57):
warned him that he would remove him from his own
trial if he continued to behavior, and he said, on unquoting,
there should be no efforts whatsoever to have any interaction
with this jury, because you know that could be like intimidation.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, I mean, where is victim number three? Where he
is victim number three who was on the docket. And
for those of you who don't know this, there have
been several victims that were identified in the press. Victim
number three is what was one that we'd been hearing about.
And now they're suddenly like not in the party anymore.
Either they're just bailing on their story or you know,
(08:30):
the rumor would be that they were gotten to. By
the way, can you imagine being a jury You're there
in the jury stand facing Diddy, knowing these allegations that
are happening. If he gets off again, dangerous, you know,
I would literally have a paper bag over my head
and give them so much credit for doing the job
of all of us.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Yeah, because all this testimony shows that did he seems
to have no problem intimidating violently and going after people,
I mean honesty estimony. You know, she said she had nightmares,
she was having paranoia, She's to scream in her sleep
a lot, like his actions had these ripple effects in
(09:10):
people's lives.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Right, Another woman testified Jane and that's like, apparently, is
that that's a pseudo name. I'm a yeah, that's just
like victim number two, victim number two. So Jane was
actually in a relationship with Ditty starting in twenty twenty,
and she's a single mom. She meets Ditty. Can you
imagine you meet like a famous rapper who's extraordinarily wealthy,
(09:32):
You're a single, struggling mom, and all of a sudden
you have this, like all this attention from this like,
you know, really desirable person, Like that's got to be overwhelming.
While her and Ditty kind of kept things on the
download because he was still seeing other women, like of course,
because men's sock right, I'm kidding me and I'm joking,
and you know, so they kept it kind of on
(09:54):
the download. But as the relationship progressed, they started spending
more time having some sexy time, and then of.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Course the free coughs.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
She started coming or he started demanding, basically that she
started coming to these freak offs and having these twenty
hour long sex sessions with other men while he watched.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And she said.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Sometimes they would go through dozens of bottles of baby
oil in one night.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
He did baby oil Johnson and Johnson's very specific unbelievable, Yeah, unbelivable. Yeah,
and remember how those hotel rooms, I mean, these were
all staged and choreographed sexual events too. These weren't like
spontaneous moments between people who really loved each other. Now,
this was like a sex play and the only difference
was Diddy was recording it and would ultimately allegedly use
(10:44):
that as ammunition.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah, she said they used like twenty four bottles wow
of baby oil in a single night, and he Diddy
would often require her to have sex with multiple men
over the course of these sessions that would last twenty
four to thirty hours.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I mean, oh, imagine, you know, it's so interesting, you know,
did he has an interesting backstory? This is something we
should get into maybe on our Sunday show where we
can really unpack a little of the backstory. But do it,
you know, if you guys don't know. His mother is
an interesting kind of piece of this puzzle. She's very
that she's known for her blonde wigs in her white
nail polish. Many of his girlfriends say that he really
(11:23):
prefers them in this particular white cream nail polish. His
dad was allegedly involved with some sort of drugs and
organized crime in New York back in the day and
was killed when he was two years old. There's some
meat on the bone there that you know, is just
worth unpacking.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
I think it is a really complicated backstory to what
we're witnessing today. Later in the show, we're going to
be discussing the horrifying story of Travis Decker. He's the
father accused of killing his three daughters and then going
on the run. We will be joined by a mental
health expert to talk a little bit more about that case.
And we're all so going to be discussing the latest
(12:02):
in the retrial of Karen Reid, and we'll be hearing
from you true crime tonight.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
That tragic case of Travis Decker. He's the accused father
of killing his three daughters. We're trying to get the
word out there because he remains at large. And we're
also going to have an expert on to sort of
break down whatever mental problems or mental health issues he
was having and see where we can find that and
understand it better in our own lives. And then just
(12:40):
the latest on Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. Come on,
we can't get enough of that. It's been a minute.
We might as well bring everybody up to speed on
that as well. But first we actually have our talk
back of the first little stretch of the show, so
we received this earlier today. So yeah, let's play.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Hey True Crime tonight. It's Aaron from New York. I'm
loving your podcast and I have you preset. So I
believe that Karen Read is innocent, but I have to
admit that the dogfight story seems a little flimsy. I
don't think Karen did it. But other than the dog story,
do you have any theories on what could have gone
down inside the house that led to jonal keystuff. I'll
be listening to hear what you think.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Thank you feature. It is the best and listen. Anyone
can always send us a talkback message when you're listening
to us in the iHeartRadio app, just click on that
microphone icon. It's in the top right corner. We'll get
it played on the air. And you can also set
True Crime Tonight podcast as a preset. Then you won't
miss anything. But Aaron from New York love this question.
(13:38):
I am also with you. I also think Karen Reid
in this moment is innocent. If I had to say, what.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Oh my goodness, you say it louder for the back
of the room.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
And the dog bite. It has been confusing, and we're
going to get a little bit deeper into the testimony
that just has occurred from the expert. But what I
think happened was that there was something messy that happened
in the house with John O'Keefe and his fellow officers,
that there was an altercation. I think it possibly involved
(14:11):
another officer, Brian Higgins, who has testified that he has
had a very flirty, sexy relationship with Reid, including a kiss.
And I think that it's actually a cover up and
that Curra Read is being accord show.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Let the record show. I mean, look, I think this
is really a look at the brotherhood of law enforcement
in certain places, right. You know, on the one hand,
this is a group of men who put themselves on
the line on a daily basis. So this is not
any comment on that. It's just an observation that this
particular crew seemed pretty darn tight and they look out
(14:48):
for each other, and some of this is just not
adding up. Have you guys seen the video of the
surveillance video of them in the final moments at the
Waterfall Bar where Higgins, all the whole crew was drinking
with Karen Reid and John O'Keeffe the victim, and again,
our hearts are with his family. Let that not be
(15:08):
left out of this. Sometimes he just becomes a footnote, right,
It's like shocking. But all that to be said, they
literally have them at the bar, and there is these
interesting intersections between this Brian Higgins, who was having these
you know, text exchanges, et cetera with Karen Reid that
were sexy, and John O'Keefe they were like squaring off.
(15:29):
You could see and look they are either you know,
it's Boston, you know they're all I'm from Long Island.
I can say this. You know, it's to make us tumble,
you know, a little russell could break out over salami,
you know. So does it look like they were contentious?
Who knows, But it did look like they'd been boozing
and there was some friction in the air. And maybe
(15:51):
more importantly, this was about an hour before the alleged accident. Literally,
John O'Keefe is like being very loving with Karen Reid.
They didn't look like they were arch enemies. And that's
the story that law enforcement is saying, is that Karen
Reid and her you know then boyfriend were like contentious
and they were having a fight that night. I don't know,
it doesn't totally appear that way on that footage.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Yeah, And just as to catch anyone up who's not
totally conversant in this, Karen Reid has been accused of
hitting her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe with her SUV,
and this happened after the night of drinking we were
just talking about. The allegation is she backed up over
him with her SUV. She left him outside in the
(16:34):
snow to die. Her defense says she is being framed
by the Norfolk. Excuse me, my Northeast accent comes out
when I think about this case Norfolk County law enforcement.
And the allegation of the defense is again that she
went into this house instead of being left at the
bottom of the driveway, walked up to the house, an
(16:54):
altercation happened, potentially Chloe the dog was involved, and here
we stand, Wow, what else happened? Well, the testimony of
doctor Marie Russell happened. And this was yesterday because today
there was no trial. It was too hot in the courtroom,
So no court today, but lots of hot testimony in
the days preceding it. So doctor Russell, she is a
(17:18):
former Massachusetts officer and a professor at USC with ps
almost thirty years of experience in the er. So this
is the expert on the dog bites. And she says
that the wounds on victim John O'Keefe's right arm were
from quote, multiple strikes from a dog and that his
injuries were the result of dog bites or claw marks.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
And by the way, where is the dog, Oh.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Chloe, the German shepherd? Where's Chloe? Chloe is up in Vermont,
last I've read, and was rehomed after this incident, And
I do you guys know when, Like, I want to
know if it was the next day, a month, after
two months, if anyone knows, give us a call eight
at eight three one a crime because I want that
(18:04):
very specific timeline and I haven't been able to find it.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
But doesn't that seem that to me alone is so odd.
I don't want to say suspicious, because again, alleged, alleged, alleged,
But ultimately, you know, we're talking about a group of
friends that have all worked together in law enforcement, you know,
thickest thieves. Dare I say? And Karen was like legit,
the girlfriend outsider who apparently was sexy texting with you know,
(18:28):
most of them at some point, and like, look, the
lead investigator got tossed out because within sixteen hours of
him being assigned the case of Karen Reid, the lead investigator, Proctor,
he was literally texting that she's a C word and
that you know, she should kill herself, like really inappropriate
(18:49):
text and also you know, commenting on how hot she
was and is, and you know it's also convoluted. How
could you possibly assume that there's some kind of a
valid investigation when all the players are doing naughty stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
And to do this in the investigation of a fellow cop.
That's so disrespectful, like they're investigating listen, I think cops
should give everybody the same respect. Of course, this is
a fallen brother right, like don't I don't want to
hear how they're a band of brothers or anymore. Like
after this investigation, I don't believe them. I just don't
(19:25):
believe them. But Boddy, that is actually absent everything else.
That's what really peaked my spidey sense that there was
something happening behind the scenes, because they I trust they
would have yeah, but douc Yeah, to just keep up
on doctor Russell. She continued by saying that if victim
John O'Keefe was hit by the SUV, she would have
(19:48):
thought that there were bone fractures or at a minimum
some more bruising. So that was her testimony. The prosecution
made a lot of hay and said she shouldn't be
an expert.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
A thirty years as an er, she has seen multiple, multiple,
multiple injuries and I thought they're trying to get The
prosecution fell a little flat for me, saying you don't
belong here.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
And by the way, I thought this was slightly interesting too.
The prosecution against Karen Reid is saying, oh, well, if
the dog bite thing was legit, there would be DNA
on his clothes or something, right, which is an interesting point. However,
that particular expert disagreed with that. And by the way,
they also allegedly found pig DNA on the clothes. Yeah,
(20:31):
that's what I thought.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
I had asked that the other night, and it was
weird some kind of So what the theories online that
I'm hearing is that?
Speaker 2 (20:39):
And I think this is silly.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
But the dog, the German shepherd, had like a pig
ear like you know those chews that the dogs have, Yes,
and that's why they found pig.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
D Oh that might track.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Actually, that could track.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
It's right. We should have Joseph Scott Morgan, let's get him,
kind of Joseph as our friend, let's get it. And
also the snowplow guy, right, the snowplow guy, that's a
big piece of this equation.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Yeah, Brian, his name Brian, he goes by Lucky Lochrin.
He testified. I found him to be incredibly credible. So
he was driving a bloat a snowplow on this very
stormy night where John o'keats's death will call it occurred.
And he testified that he began his shift at two
(21:23):
thirty am and his plow has very bright lights for
anyone who lives in a cold place, you know that
they're so bright like it's a spotlight, and that he
did not see a six foot one, two hundred and
fifteen pound man when he was driving by. He then
also asserted that he saw what he called an out
of place ford Edge vehicle in the road at about
(21:46):
three point thirty when he came back to do his
second plow, and he made note of that. And then
when he came by at six fifteen for his third pass,
the road was blocked off by police.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
And by the way, this is Symbo who knows the family.
So the house that they were at, like he knew
them really nicely. That's the Albert home. And you know
his job is to be looking for things in the
road during the snowstorm. You know, those trucks have huge
lights on it, right. His actual job is to make
sure he's not scooping up a raccoon or you know,
looking out for wildlife for other people's cars and does
(22:20):
this you know, route very often, So, yeah, that's a
curious piece of it, let alone the inverted footage of
the car, which is yeah, so basically the surveillance, the
footage within the precinct of the vehicle and the tail
light when presented it had been inverted. And this came
(22:41):
up in court as well, and it had been inverted,
which really does change the perspective of who was doing
what and like, how is that? Okay? Yeah, I don't know.
I don't think it is. We're going to find out.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
We're going to be continuing to follow the really tragic
story of Travis Decker, a father accused of killing his
three daughters last week and he's still on the run.
We're going to have mental health expert Laura Cheatham. She's
going to join us and talk about his diagnosed borderline
personality disorder. And then we're going to be hearing about
the latest feud in the Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni case.
Is Lively about to lose her bff? Stay right here
(23:14):
True Crime tonight.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
You know, accused dad Javis Decker on the loose after
allegedly killing his three daughters, and he's apparently been diagnosed
with bipolar disease, and you know, that's serious stuff, and
we're going to have an expert on to sort of
unpack that a little bit for us. But you know, body,
where should we start with this?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yeah, so really quick, I just wanted to let everybody
know this is we're going to be having a discussion
about mental health struggles and like really horrific, horrible violence
against children, which many may find disturbing. You know, listener,
discretion is strongly advised. We care about you here at
True Crime tonight, and we want everybody to maintain their
mental health. So, yeah, this is very tragic and I'm
(24:02):
going to try to get through it as quickly as
possible because it is absolutely terrible. Former Army ranger. His
name is Travis Decker. He's a father. He picked up
his kids on Friday and he was supposed to return
them at nine pm. They are aged five, eight nine,
and they never returned and the mom called the police.
(24:24):
She kind of wanted an amber alert issued, but you know,
it didn't meet the criteria for an Amber alert because
there wasn't necessarily an abduction. So there's a whole conversation
to be had about, you know, the amber alert criteria.
Which we're not going to get into right now, but
that's a whole nother separate conversation we really should. Yeah,
So then you know, they issued an endangered child alert
(24:45):
and a man hunt began for these children. They found
his truck in like a at a campground, and nearby
the truck they found the three little girls. And I
don't want to get into any worry details, but it's
pretty horrific. And so now Travis da is on the run,
apparently on foot. And the thing to know about Travis
(25:05):
Decker is that he's still on the run and he's
you know, been trained in like mountain survival, so he
has the ability to possibly survive in the wilderness. And
the area of Washington in which all this occurred is
pretty rural, and I mean it's quite beautiful and stunning,
you know. It pictured like the rolling hills, mountains and
pine trees everywhere. It's just breathtaking. He could be literally anywhere.
(25:29):
There was a report yesterday that he might have been
seen in Idaho, and authorities have come out and said
that that has actually not been substantiated in any way,
something that we reported on last night. So they're still
kind of looking in the area that he was last seen,
and in fact, they've closed that area so that they
can search it extensively. So please google, you know, Travis Decker,
(25:51):
get his image in your head and be on the
lookout for him. He was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder
and that's something that we're going to be talking about
later on in the segment. But you know, he his wife,
his ex wife, actually said that he had stopped taking
his medication and that this could be some sort of
psychosis event that's happened. And you know, our heart just
(26:13):
goes out to this mom. She's lost her entire world.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Right, honestly, we should all just like mentally throw her
so much.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Love, oh collectively. You know, she has a GoFundMe which
I would love to promote. So please go and look
for her GoFundMe and help her in any way that
you can.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Absolutely, But now, Stephanie, uh, do we have our guest?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah? You know. In fact, you know, listen, this story
is such a dark one, so is there something that
can be gleaned from it? Right? So mental health that's
at the core of this. A sane person does not
do this, right, Somebody who's not really having a mental break,
I would assume. So, you know, we thought we would
bring on really the best of the best in terms
of experts. So we're joined by John Jay College of
(26:55):
Criminal Justice, Psychology professor and licensed mental health health counselor
and trauma specialist, Laura Cheatham. Laura, can you hear us?
Speaker 6 (27:05):
Hi?
Speaker 7 (27:05):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (27:05):
Hi, Laura, Thanks so much for having me on.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, thank you for joining us. You know, listen, we
know this is a very grizzly tale, and again, you know,
what can we what can we glean from this, right,
because it seems as though, I mean, look, these types
of crimes, you know, killing your own kids, there has
to be some sort of mental psychosis happening. I would
assume he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, as you know
(27:30):
his mom online personality I'm sorry, a borderline personality disorder.
And you know mom had raised the flag beforehand and
wasn't really comfortable with sending the kids. But again, you know,
it's it's complicated stuff.
Speaker 6 (27:44):
Right, and I'm so glad to be able to have
a chance to get into all of this as we
talk about it. And I mean, first of all, I
just want to say my condolences to the family, the
mother of the children. I mean, I imagine that the public
as well as having their own kind of vicarious trauma
reaction as well, kind of trying to grasp for some
(28:07):
kind of understanding. I mean, this is unimaginable, what an
incredibly awful thing to happen, right.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
It's too much, It's just unfair beyond measure.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Yeah, So what is borderline personality disorder? How does somebody
get diagnosed?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Like? Are there symptoms that people should be aware of?
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Sure? So, I mean I guess the first thing is
to really break down like our understanding of like the
difference between a personality disorder and another type of disorder,
something like depression or anxiety. So our personality is pretty set,
you know, if you imagine it almost is like snowball,
you're packing in snow. At the beginning, this would be
(28:48):
like a young person, a child. You can't really diagnose
with a personality disorder just yet, they're still developing. But
over time you pack in more snow, it gets in
it's more set. So as we get older, we have
our personalities pretty established. So something like borderline personality disorder
(29:09):
isn't something that would come out of just nowhere. Studies.
Endless research shows that this particular diagnosis is something that
comes in the aftermath of trauma, typically sexual abuse, physical abuse,
childhood abandonment, other personality disorders. There might be more biological origin,
(29:31):
a combination of that and experiences. What we do know
about BPD is that there is a history of trauma, undoubtedly.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
So well, he was an army ranger, and is my
understanding he did see combat, So is it possible it
came from that kind of situation.
Speaker 6 (29:49):
So my thinking is by then he would have already
been nineteen twenty results, So I would imagine because it
sounded like he was involved in of combat, that there
was some kind of exacerbation. And so if we kind
of zoom out on this case, I'm I'm really thinking
borderline is likely. In the soup. People are really wanting
(30:13):
to point to something to get an understanding, right, Well,
these kinds of cases are just so incredibly complex that
to point to just one thing is just not going
to be able to get us there.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
I think that's even really fair thing.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
I think that's completely for people that are on medication.
You know, I have a great friend Haines. She's a
wonderful person and she stays on medication and she's perfectly normal.
Like I hate, I hate to use the word normal
because it's not. I'm not an ablest, but you wouldn't know.
She's completely you know, productive in every way possible. But
if you go off the medication, this kind of thing
(30:50):
can happen, right, Like, it can kind of take over.
Speaker 6 (30:53):
Right Yeah, I mean we probably know people with borderline.
They're in our lives, we have with there are in
our communities. The medication piece I'll get to in a bit,
but to give a little background, you asked about symptoms.
The primary thing is, uh, you're going to see instability,
(31:15):
and I think, uh, unfortunately, what we see a lot
in the rhetoric around talking about borderline is it it
gets kind of thrown around as like a really stigmatizing term,
almost like a synonym for crazy, and it's really unfair
and it takes away I think also from really being
(31:35):
able to understand like, uh, this is a complex disorder
that when we talk about trauma that of course evokes
like compassion from people, But for some reason, when we
use this word borderline, uh, it starts to change the
way the narrative goes and part of the reason for
that is because it can be really difficult to have
(31:58):
relationships with people with this diagnosis because of the symptoms.
It's really marked by a sense of instability. You'll see
volatile emotional swings, very quick changes in how they see themselves,
how they see others, and it can be really startling
(32:19):
and frightening for them as well. That they often complain
about that volatility. It's uncomfortable, would be putting it lightly.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Well, Listen, this has been so enlightening, Laura. We want
to thank you so much for joining us, for shedding
a light and giving us a little bit further of
an understanding of borderline personality disorder. It is very misunderstood,
so we're so grateful to you. And just as a reminder,
(32:49):
Laura is a licensed mental health counselor. If you'd like
to contact her, her website is Laura Chatham LMHC dot com.
And we want to hear your thoughts about tonight's stories.
Give us a call eight to a three one crime
so in the Luigi Mangione case, and as a reminder,
he is going to be on trial for shooting CEO
(33:14):
Brian Thompson, the head of United Healthcare, so brand new update.
New details from his alleged manifesto are revealed. Maesto, Yes, prosecutors,
they just released new excerpts and according to the filing,
Mangione's diary entries, they chronicled months of planning. They chronicled
(33:35):
that he also surveilled Thompson near the Midtown hotel where
he was gone down. And that has been a little
bit put together with certain pieces we've been getting that
he was in New York and manngeone was around the area.
But the recent revelation August fifteenth, twenty twenty four, mangones
entry read quote, I finally feel confident about what I
(33:56):
will do. The details are coming together and I don't
feel any doubt about whether it's right slash justified. I'm
glad in a way that I've procrastinated because it allowed
me to learn more about UHC, which stands for United
Healthcare M what ends No, it's crazy. And then just
one more piece of information coming out. It alleges that
(34:18):
Manjun was considering another target at first, but then chose
the health insurance industry and landed on quote the target
is insurance period. It checks every box.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Do we know what the other target?
Speaker 5 (34:32):
Was.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I'm so curious too. I don't know either, not that
I've seen.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
No, this is it's unbelievable, and it does this put
into potentially new light what was going on in Manjuin's brain.
Me too.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
I kind of feel like he was looking for a cause, right,
like if he was looking at another sector, maybe like
another controversial American target, like you know, all Americans are
like my health insurance sucks, Like you know what I mean,
is there another villain that, you know, an American villain,
let's say, right that he was looking at.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yeah, And I'm curious, like why this particular insurance company,
Like why this particular target, Like he didn't really have
an association with.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
It, he didn't, but there they are the largest healthcare
provider in the United States, right, That's why. So I'm
just kind of wondering, like, was he looking to be
kind of like the martyr for the American people of
a cause that they're you know, struggling against and if
and if so, what was the other target?
Speaker 8 (35:35):
I know?
Speaker 4 (35:36):
I mean just the target is insurance, period. It checks
every box. I think it feeds into what you're saying,
body that you know, he wanted to potentially be some
sort of martyr versus an organic and organically grown you know,
hatred or vendetta against health insurance.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
But it's a little bit so confusing, and I guess
I wish we could have doctor Laura Chiaton back on,
because I would have to speaks to mental health again.
Who writes this in a notebook the way he's been doing,
you know, like again, this is not particularly clever if
you're going to commit a major crime and then carry
it with you and carry it with you in a
backpack in your little notebook. And also, this is a
(36:15):
person that comes from privilege, has a great education, do
something great with it, change the world. Listen, I don't
get me on a soapbox here, but we're going to
come right back. I promise we're going to be talking
about Justin Valdoni and the latest developments with Blake Lively.
This is true crime tonight. We talk true crime all
the time. Listen. We've been talking about such heavy stuff
(36:46):
that a little bit of a palette cleanse to hear
about Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni and the saga between
them that never seems to end. There have been some
new developments, if you haven't been playing along with this case.
You know Blake, she's that beautiful actress from from The
Gossip Girl, which I was such a huge fan of.
Generally speaking, I've always been her fan, biggest Oh I.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Love goss I actually just recently rewatched it, probably last year.
The whole thing, soup to nuts.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Soup to nuts so good. And then I am the outsider.
I have money. I know, I don't even know how.
We're friends. We're gonna help to do a full We're
going to do a full bench. It's really good and
she's great in it, and I've always been a fan.
And she's married to of course Ryan Reynolds, the very
famous superstar from you know, Deathpool and so many great movies.
So they're listen, Hollywood elite, even though they're New Yorkers,
(37:40):
but you know, this is the upper echelon of greatness.
And basically Blake live. He stars in a movie called
It's It Ends with Us and it's based on a
really really wonderful book series that really looks out domestic violence.
And Justin BALTONI was the director of this film and
also his company made the film, right, so they purchased
(38:02):
the book. They got the rights to the book. It
ends with us. This they attached Blake Lively. All is
good in the hood, but apparently it got a little
weird on set, and there's very opposing reasons as to why.
Allegedly Blake Lively files a complaint with the studio basically
saying that she felt like it was a hostile work
environment and accuses Justin Baldoni of sexual harassment, which is,
(38:27):
you know, again a big deal. She's claiming masters boundaries
were violated. And then this you know, movie comes out,
and apparently she felt as though she was getting bad
press and you know, online and she was pushing a
few different products and apparently, you know, social media was
backlashing or being rude to her, and she felt it
(38:51):
was a smear campaign from a pr agency hired by
director Justin Baldoni to make her look bad as a
retaliation to the sexual harassment complaint. So there, that's the
that's the state, that's the processes where it all starts, right,
and then he counter sues for four hundred million dollars.
(39:13):
Fun fact, you know, Justin Baldoni's business partner is like
a billionaire. You know, they have unlimited resources and you know,
the words like smear campaign come into play, and and
by the way, we should unpack that too, because the
pr firms it was pretty messy by all accounts. So
this lawsuit goes back and forth, and it's really now
(39:35):
gotten to a fever pitch where jobs are getting lost.
We're being you know, hearing reports at Ryan Reynolds' next film,
the date for it pushed maybe in the wake of
all of this controversy, because what Baldoni's side is saying,
he's the director. He's saying that basically Blake Lively went
in there with the intention of taking over the movie,
(39:57):
and that she was totally a nightmare on set and
took over all the wardrobe, had like last minute script
changes to the bitter end, and was sort of kind
of peer pressuring him into basically doing it her way,
and that he claims these sexual harassment charges were an
attempt to basically get back the rights to the book series.
(40:19):
So basically it ends with us two would be under
Ryan and Blake, not just on Baldoni and his partner
at Wayfair Studio. Are you with me? Does that all track? Yes? Yes,
I'm following.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Yeah, they both are alleging you said smear campaign, which
is a big phrase in this because both sides are alleging,
which is so interesting and Baldoni's what has come out
from Baldoni's side, it feels like a lot of proof
and stuff that's come out in court papers that the
PR management team was indeed willfully trying to smear Blake Lively's.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Oh really, so that's absolutely and like listen some of
the sexual harassment charges And this is where I get
a little triggered from this story, because like listen, these
are real allegations, right, we talk about this very serious time.
If you're putting out a false accusation, you know, if
in fact it is, then you know, what does that
do to the next woman in line or the next
man in line who's filing the wait trum point?
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Right, nobody cares does have the attention that Blake Lily has, right, correct,
And some of her big ticket items for this said
harassment and hostile work environment, where like, for example, one
time she was she had just had a baby and
her you know, she was breastfeeding in her trailer and
according to her, Justin Baldoni kind of barged into the
(41:40):
trailer while she was breastfeeding and she felt like that
was incredibly inappropriate because she was, you know, not fully robed.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
And then he's released the text messages which is basically
her saying, Hey, I'm in my trailer breastfeeding, come in anytime.
So is that a total contradiction, right? Or another example
would be she claimed that some of their like intimacy
and sex scenes, I guess typically you would have kind
(42:08):
of like an instructor on set to coordinator, Yes, an
intimacy coordinator, and she claims that like they didn't do that.
They didn't have this said coordinator, and therefore it felt
like he really came on a little bit hard and
she felt uncomfortable. But again, and they have these text
exchanges of Justin Baldoni saying to her time and time again,
(42:30):
hey I really want to hook you up with the
intimacy coordinator and that she basically like, let that lie,
and it never really happened, And there does appear to
be this back and forth, and there does appear to
be some some ickiness with the PR firms again, like
they're not the PR firm, right, but they hired the
PR firm, And then that's a whole other backstory of messiness.
(42:53):
So today some of the charges from Blake Lively were dropped,
which is sort of this emotional allegation. Yeah, and I
mean it's all spiraling. It's like it seems as though
it was the attempt. This is what's being alleged that
she was trying to take this book series over, figured
this sexual harassment suit would get big press, that would
(43:15):
be the end of it, because Justin Baldoni was kind
of a nobody comparatively speaking. And now it's really like
snowballed to nauseum and now no one can get out
of it alive. Period.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
It's a mess. So Taylor Swift, Stephanie, I've been a
little bit dying to talk.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
They're like all buds. You guys might have heard of
this already, but you know, this is like the finest
New York City crew. It's like the Gossip Girl. In
my head, I feel like we're supposed to go to
dinner with the DG hadd and Taylor Swift and Blake
Lively and the three of us tagging along. It seemed
like they had this like very cool thing happening. And
(43:52):
and by the way, Taylor Swift died the theme song
for the movie, which is a great song. I don't
know wh I'm forgetting the name of it, but it's
really very very good. And allegedly Taylor Swift rolled into
Blake Lively's apartment with Rian and Justin Baldoni. Was invited
over to talk about the script because Blake Lively had
some big ideas about how to change the script, and
(44:14):
he claims that Ryan Reynolds and Taylor Swift kind of
like bullied him into agreeing with these said changes. Right,
so kind of gross, right, that's not ideal?
Speaker 4 (44:27):
Well, she also yeah, they also have that text where
Blake writes to Baldoni basically, you should really really listen
to my ideas because I have my dragons, and she's
evoking great Game of Thrones and her dragons are her
powerhouse husband Ryan Reynolds and her bff Taylor Swift. And
(44:50):
that was more not so much anymore.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Because she kind of retaliated. Taylor Swift was like, uh,
that's not I have no idea what she's talking about.
I lose my number. But they're like incredibly close, isn't
she like the gods? Moo, she's the godmother of all
of Again, we don't know these people, but yeah, all
four of their children. Taylor Swift is the godmother too,
so this is a very close relationship. And apparently Taylor
(45:18):
Swift apparently got roped into this, and Baldoni's lawyers are
saying that Taylor Swift has to hand over text messages,
like ten years worth of text messages that Blake Lively
threatened that she would share to the public if Taylor
didn't put out like something positive about Blake in the
(45:38):
in the public, in the social media, and it didn't
go over very well, know, Taylor is like, no more,
no more, no more.
Speaker 4 (45:47):
Her team's response was kind of brilliant. I won't do
it ver vatim, but you know, they let it be
known clearly, Taylor Swift has never set foot on the
set of the movie. She wasn't involved in any creative decision,
shouldn't even see it until weeks after the public release
because she was traveling on the globe doing the biggest
tour in history.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
The eras that she's been delevanting across the globe for yours.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
I mean, has anybody ever been on tours I went to.
It was fantastic, it was amazing, It was amazing, but
here's the thing, Like, now she Taylor, I mean, uh,
Jake uh. Justin Baldoni is saying, ooh, dial us in
coach because we are a never ending fight, like they
are playing real and hard and tough and there's real
(46:36):
money on the line at this point. And now Blake
Lively has dropped the claims of emotional distress air quotes
that was in her initial claim. And you know, maybe
more significantly, this is really a look at like reputational warfare, right,
It's a it's reputation versus reputation. Also law fair, right,
(46:58):
because Blake Lively.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
Started all this, right, yeah, And now now I feel like,
and listen, I'm not following this.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
I'm learning this. You are now, guys real time.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
And so no, I'm like interested, right, it's law fair,
and she is probably her back is against the wall.
She realizes he's not rolling over and he's countersuing. Now yep,
and her back's against the wall, and she's probably she's
I feel like she's in the wrong.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
No, I know, and I love her too. I'm a fan,
I should say, I don't know her, but I'm like disappointed.
I'm disappointed by all of it. It's like nobody wins
in this. No, but it's tough.
Speaker 4 (47:32):
Even Stephanie, you had mentioned the quote breastfeeding inaccuracies in
terms of her saying it's totally inappropriate to walk in unannounced.
I think everyone could agree with that one hundred percent.
That's fact, and then also a fact that she said, no, oh,
I'm breastfeeding, come in. But I don't know is it circumstantial.
(47:54):
It's like, just because you a woman quote says yes
once doesn't mean it's yes.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Fat It's such a good point. And did she fear
for her safety? And like some of the rumors are
like maybe Ryan, her husband, came to set and saw,
you know, some chemistry between them, and then that got
him a flutter and then he's the one that was
escalating it, and that seems to be sort of the
rumor mill as well. So like even now our beloved
(48:19):
Ryan Reynolds is being roped into this, say it's not
so bigger and messier in one last order of business,
and then I promise to pass the baton. We're here
Sunday through Thursday, so two hours live every night and
Sunday we're doing a real deep dive on all of
the cases. We've been talking about so far, including the
Long Island serial killer, and of course a little bit
(48:40):
more on Luigi manifestos, et cetera. So, but first this,
you know, Blue Barrel Killer. Yeah, record, So it's terrible.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
So his name is Timothy Haslett Junior, and he lives
in Excelsior Springs, Missouri. He is a waiting trial for
the murder of one woman and the kidnapping and rape
of of course the woman he murdered and a woman
that escaped. And this is where we kind of learn
(49:09):
about him. Is this through this escape. It's very harrowing.
So back in twenty twenty two, in October of twenty two,
it's late, you know, late fall. A woman is knocking
on a door feverishly helped me, help me, help me.
The residents open the door and there's a woman standing
there with a metal collar over her neck and kind
(49:34):
of like wearing this black sort of like garbage bag
kind of outfit, and she tells a harrowing tale that
she has been living in a dungeon of this home,
being kidnapped by this guy and he's been trigger warning,
by the way, massive trigger warning here it is, I mean,
(49:56):
countdown here, to five four through two who won. He
has been raping her and withholding food and drugging her
and torturing her with all kinds of implements. Well, so
they go to the house. She, by the way, escaped
this dungeon because Timothy haslet Junior, who's the man accused
(50:19):
of kidnapping her and doing all this to her, has
to take his son to school, his young.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Son who's living in the house. Yes, who's living in
the home.
Speaker 4 (50:28):
While the torture is going on downstairs in the dungeon.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Correct, who is this monster?
Speaker 4 (50:34):
Right?
Speaker 3 (50:34):
Well, and that's the thing, this is why it's kind
of on our radar, is that this is potentially a
serial killer because she tells the story that when she
arrived in this dungeon there was another woman. She said,
he has my friend too, she called, she said, my friend.
While we learn that this woman has been identified, they
(51:00):
found her body in a blue barrel in a in
kind of like a Marshy River kind of area near
Excelsior Springs, Missouri. She her name was I'm sorry, her
name was uh sitting Janie, Janie cross Ail. That's the
woman that was found in the barrel, and the barrel
(51:20):
has been forensically connected to Timothy Haslett. So they they
have indicted him. There was a preliminary hearing like everything.
He has been indicted for this murder, and they suspect
that it's possible there's other victims. Now, if there is
other victims, and of course we have bigger problems with
Timothy Haslett Junior. But yeah, it's very scary. He he's
(51:43):
been indicted. He was indicted in July of twenty twenty four,
and his trial is supposed to begin in December. So
this is something that we're going to be talking about
a lot because I'm following it like a hawk. I've
already signed up for like all the Missouri case Net updates.
I get them every day. I know it's exactly what's
happening in the case. Wow, because this is like something
(52:03):
that's on my radar. And so I mean, just imagine.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
This woman not knowing you. Would you ever? So here's
a really here's a question for you all. Please call
us at eight eight eight three one crime because it's
I'm so divided on this. If somebody knocks on your door,
bangs on your door in the wee hours and is
wearing a thing around their neck and a garbage bag
and they're like help help. We equally hear stories of
(52:28):
you should never open your door to or stranger ever.
And is that the answer because in this case, thank god,
this neighbor actually answered the door that saved her life.
Speaker 3 (52:40):
Right, I don't know, man, I'm a girls girl. I
am one hundred percent of girls girl. I would like
to think that I would, but I mean I have
seen so many like alerts, like don't answer the door
because these people are pretending to be salesmen or whatever,
and they're gonna they're gonna gangbusters you and like come
into your house and you know, kill you. And so
(53:04):
I'm terrified of even looking to see who's at my door.
So I feel like it's you have to keep yourself
like not put yourself in danger, but also to maybe
alert the authorities. Is I don't know if that's my
best guess.
Speaker 4 (53:20):
Yeah, just call and of course, and I mean if
raised a racket, but yeah, it's it's a conundrum. Now.
Body when the other woman who tragically said was referred
to as her friend, which breaks my heart in a
real specific way, when she was found in the barrel,
did has that did they excuse me, Did they accused
(53:42):
also have similar barrels on his home? Is that the link?
Speaker 2 (53:46):
Yeah, like a blue barrel visioning, So yeah, like I
don't even know what I'm picturing. Something from the Western Yeah,
those oil barrels exactly.
Speaker 4 (53:55):
That's right. And then and Timothy has a yeah, I'm
just double checking myself, and he did. He had right,
similar barrels at us home at his home, so that
it's right.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
So they thinked to know more about his background too, well, well,
he his mainly his history of legal issues are like
traffic violations, they're not really you know out, they're not
really crazy.
Speaker 3 (54:19):
He was married, obviously, he has a son. He was
divorced in twenty fifteen, so he was married for quite
some time. He maintains joint legal well, he maintained joint
legal custody of his son and became the primary custodial parents.
So at some point he was the upstanding parent that
took care of this little son.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
This poor child, if that was the case.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
And now wow, right, and he it and you know,
much like a lot of other killers, you know, he
preyed on sex workers, right, you know, and I'm not
here to shame them. Sex worker is work of course,
be you know okay with that? And you know the victim,
by the way, we don't know her name. She he
has been protected. Her identity has been protected because you
(55:03):
know she's we do know that she is struggling.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
I got has she happy? This is such a harrowing event,
and you know you brought up the serial killer part
of it, which you know, I think we're all slightly
oddly fascinated and curious about serial killers in general. So
the criteria for that is it has to be more
than two people, right, so we're looking at three, and
there has to be this what is a very scary idea,
(55:28):
this cool down period.
Speaker 3 (55:29):
This off, this cooling off period. Now she tested well,
she told police. The victim, the twenty two year old
who ran out of the home. She tells the story
that Timothy Haslett Junior confessed to her as he's torturing her,
like you know, if you don't do what I say,
You're going to end up like the two other women
(55:50):
I've killed. So we know about we know about the
blue the woman in the blue barrel who's already been
identified and linked to him. And who's this other girl
who's this other woman. We don't know, and they haven't
found anything yet, but I suspect that they're looking.
Speaker 4 (56:07):
Wow, I'm sure they are. I think we should just
take a really quick moment to honor the victim, Janie Crosdale,
who was found in the barrel, because so often victims
do get lost, and it sounds like she was just lovely.
Family and friends just say she was bright and witty,
full of life, and yeah, she did face some challenges,
(56:31):
but she was a lovely human being.
Speaker 3 (56:33):
So right, she was like really involved with this Relentless
Pursuit Outreach and Recovery, which is an organization that support
individuals facing these kinds of challenges like addiction and homelessness.
And you know a lot of people when they're facing
these kinds of things, they'll turn to sex work because
it's quick money, right.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Absolutely, And so she always don't have options, right, And
so she was a woman that was trying to help
other women get out of this lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (56:58):
And into you know, a more healthy arena. And you
know her, she ends up a victim of this monster
that is potentially a serial killer. He's not right now,
he's just accused of one murder, but of course there's
one murder, two kidnappings, two torturing. You know, there's because
we have Jamie, who's you know, obviously a victim. He's
(57:21):
ended up in the blue barrel. But yeah, I just
it's it's heartbreaking. And you know what's even more heartbreaking
is there there's a reverend in Saint Louis who was
kind of ringing the alarm bells to this and was
kind of getting annoyed.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
And his name escapes me.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
Now I'll have to look it up and get back
to you on this, And he was kind of getting
annored because what he said, and I kind of, you know,
believe him. He was saying that they were just young black,
young woman prostitutes that nobody cared about. And it's heartbreaking.
That's about worse.
Speaker 2 (57:50):
And by the way, we hear this a lot, except
for a Long Island because those Long Island you know,
sex workers that were allegedly killed by the Long Island
serial killer, they were so loved that those moms of
those sex workers at the time really took the narrative
back and were like, oh no, no, I'm not going
to let my daughter get washed away under this like banner.
(58:11):
Oh oh, she was a sex worker. Therefore that's okay
that she was found in a shallow grave. No, it
makes me so infuriated, it does whom My heart really
goes out. And yeah, hopefully they find some justice.
Speaker 3 (58:23):
Well, and the authorities authorities have said they're definitely not
ruling out the fact that he might have other victims.
So I do believe there's still an active investigation. And
I think because he was arrested in twenty twenty two,
so it's been it's been years since he's been arrested,
and I think this might be why. You know, the
trial hasn't happened yet. I mean, they're trying to find
more liv they're trying to find mores. Right well, I
(58:47):
believe right now it's slated for December twenty twenty five,
so for a couple of months the trial should start.
Bishop Tony Coldwell, Yes, and he's fabulous by the way,
if you if you find him on social media, he
does a lot of outreach with that organization that I
had mentioned previously to help women that are suffering with addiction.
(59:09):
He's fabulous, fabulous man.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
Wow, that is.
Speaker 4 (59:12):
A beautiful cause. When we come back, we're going to
switch gears a really hard, right, turn into some stupid
criminal stories that hopefully we can all enjoy and be
glad we're not in their places. We're also going to
be hearing from you about tonight's stories. Give us a
call eight at eight three to one Crime. We are
(59:33):
talking true crime all the time, so keep it here
on True Crime Tonight.
Speaker 2 (59:50):
So we've been talking about so many heavy things right now,
so we're going to try to shake it up a
little bit. We have our talk back. They're calling about
Rex humor Men, the accused Long Island serial killer, and
they left a really interesting message.
Speaker 8 (01:00:04):
Hi ladies, Love you guys and loving this podcast so far.
I had a question about the Rex Hureman case, the
Long Island serial killer, and the admissibility of the DNA evidence.
From my perspective as someone who works in a genetic
testing laboratory, albeit in oncology testing not forensics, it seems
(01:00:27):
so desperate. I wonder what your perspective is.
Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Thinks, God, she's somebody I'd love to pick her brain. Yes,
you have to come on the show some time with us.
Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
So, in summary, I guess the core of the defense's
challenge lies in questioning whether or not the specific DNA
testing protocol is admissible or if it meets the legal
standards in the state of New York. And it's this
S and P testing. And I'm going to be honest.
I mean, listen, we're all laymen, we're not experts in
this and whatnot. So I don't really know what the
(01:01:01):
argument is about the SNP testing, but they do say
it's not meeting the legal standard.
Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
For admiscibility in New York.
Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
And also they're saying, like the hairs that were found
on the victims' bodies, right, they were found on like
you know, and I'm not trying to be gross or anything,
but they were found on like decomposed bodies, right, And
they're saying with the degradation of the bodies could affect
the DNA on these hairs.
Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
So is that desperate? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
I feel like, if I'm on trial for my life, right,
I want my lawyer to use everything in their playbook
to help me get off. Right, So are they desperate?
I think they're probably just doing their job.
Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
But to that point, you know, and I think when
it comes to this DNA type of stuff, and we've
seen this in a few cases. Brian Coberger's case as
well in the Idaho college murders. And this one is
that air quotes junk science. I mean, obviously this has
come so so far and so many things that are
brought into question. Are the chain of custody, right, So
who has the material? Where does a specimen go, where
(01:02:12):
is it tested? How is it tested? Is their handling
of this evidence? Do I think it's desperate? I see
the point. I really do so. I definitely think it's
a really fair question, and it's I have to kind
of like throw it all at the wall, but it's
not super compelling at the same time.
Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
Agreed, Yeah, But I mean also, you know, I would
need to look into this, and I'd be excited to
actually based on this question. But the DNA is not
in it. You know, it's in question in the New
York courts, right, But that's the case for every piece
of new technology in every court of law. So maybe
(01:02:52):
this is accepted in forty nine states. I have no
idea if that's true. But my point is that for
something to meet the level of a missibility in each state,
every single thing needs to go through a new process.
You know, the first time a fingerprint was used now
what's this.
Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
Well, I think with Ted Bundy that was the first
time bite analysis was done.
Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
That's right. I think that's accurate. This is another one
business of Scott Morgan. We have let's get yes, he's
him back on Yeah, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan. This
all has his name written all over it. It really does.
It is. It's a really interesting question. And by the way,
this Long Island serial killer, he claims his innocence, let
the record show. And by the way, his wife, very devoted,
(01:03:35):
has been married to him for decades, is also you
know saying not my man, you know, would never. We
should save some of this for Sunday. Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
Let's let's let's just do a island way because we
have done that yet some some of the people might
not even know what we're talking about. So let's let's
get into this on Sunday when we come back. Great, Yeah,
let's do that.
Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
Okay, fabulous, And this is a great reminder you can
always send us a talk back. That was so intelligent.
We really appreciate it. When you're listening on the iheartradi app,
you just give a click to the microphone icon it's
in the top right corner. But for now, I have
one of the stupid criminal stories that we've been talking about,
(01:04:18):
and I'm not joking. I'd actually maybe like anything killer. Yeah, Yeah,
here's a guy a little lighter. Yeah, I want to
hang out with this guy. Actually. So deputies in Florida
were understandably shocked when a man that they were chasing
they were in pursuit, he literally offered them a drink
(01:04:38):
and then asked if they quote had fun during the
police chase. So yeah, so Florida, Manda, we need always Florida.
So mid chase, he slowed down to offer a vodka
(01:04:58):
spritzer out the window of his car to the pursuing deputy.
That's what I said, I kind of want to go
to a party at this guy's house. What a host
he proceeded. Later, he crashed several miles away. He was apprehended.
The suspect, although I suspect he is. The guy is
thirty nine year old Richard Christopher Smith of Miami. Specifically,
(01:05:22):
so officers they had fully deployed those spike strips, you know,
those horrifying things that you back over in the parking lot.
Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
That's like serious business. Totally serious, very serious business.
Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
So they laid those out, those out. They actually had
to tase him during the arrest, which sounds horrible, but
listen this jovial sir. Once he was arrested, as the
officers at that point, did you guys have fun chasing me?
Which I just I love that. And ultimately, unsurprisingly, he
(01:05:58):
was found he'd stolen a couple of items from a
nearby store, including the booze, so he was offering them.
You know, I guess what would that be, not open
proof of his crime or you know, stuff he had
offered him that he faces d ui. But man, he
was polite and down for the ride. The whole time.
Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
He was polite except for the tasing part. Right that.
Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
I've never experienced a tazing myself, but it sounds horrible. Oh,
I don't want to even I don't even want to.
Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Don't even come near me with that thing, exactly Listen.
I would not survive in jail. I would not last
a day.
Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
Say it's my biggest nightmare.
Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
It'd be more exciting. I have another one out of Florida.
Tell us listen, So what is up with all the
Florida men?
Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Like for real? We need to have my mind.
Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
Well I kind of I kind of looked into it
because I was like, what is going on? Apparently the
FLOYA laws in Florida are a little bit it's easier
to get information, and that's probably why we have all
these stories from Florida, is because it's easier to get
like the anyway.
Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
Right, And the FOYA is the Freedom of Information Act
and just for any crime nerds out there, you can
use you can put into a FOYA to request information
and people use that from different you know, different agencies
will use it and honestly, even look you lose who
are just curious. It's freedom of information so Interestingida.
Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
In each state it has different criteria, Like in Tennessee,
for instance, you can't do a FOYA unless you're a
resident a resident, right, so it depends on where you live. Anyway,
I was just like, nosey, I'm like, what is going
on Florida?
Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Anyway?
Speaker 3 (01:07:44):
I have another Florida man. Okay, this is this one's
out of Alusa County. I hope I'm saying that right.
Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Volution. One of my brothers lives in Lovely Well, maybe
he knows this guy, and hopefully he's not this guy. Actually,
maybe he knows this guy.
Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
So deputies responded to New Smyrna Beach around ninety am
so crack a dawn, Well not really, but early morning
after a vehicle ran through a closed gate with access
to the beach without paying the toll. Okay, so he's
in a truck, he runs through the beach, the Sheriff's
office said. The driver, Jason I'm not going to say
his last name because it's very hard to pronounce, told
(01:08:21):
officials he wanted to drive on the beach. However, the
deputy explained, hey, dude, the beach is closed.
Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
You can't.
Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
You know that it's high tide, you can't be driving
your truck. So they got a video of him and
he's running his truck through the waves in the ocean
and he's like doing donuts on the beach, just being
a total nuisance. And he got arrested. And as he's
getting arrested, he told the deputies he just wanted to
(01:08:49):
surf and it's not his fault his truck can't surf.
Oh right, So he was taken to Walusa County Jail
and let out with a two hundred dollars bond and Jason,
if you're out there.
Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
You got to teach your truck out a surf bud.
I mean, go on, do you have for our well?
I was going to Actually we got hit up on
our socials and had a question about this whole, you know,
justin Baldoni situation. So I'm going to try to read
this out loud. It's not a letter, but it is
on our shutter. I'm the worst reader out loud, so
(01:09:24):
just bear with me, Hay, True crime tonight. I loved
all the gossip about Taylor Swift not texting back Blake Lively.
So basically Taylor just basically dropped ghosts Lively like she
got ghosted. And you know, I understand that. According to
our our lovely social media here from Sylvia Denver, I
(01:09:45):
also think Taylor is being kind of a bad friend.
Shouldn't she have stood up for Blake Lively? I don't know.
Speaker 4 (01:09:52):
I don't know when attorneys are involved and your potentials
at this point, and this whole thing is a disaster.
It's kind of a pox on everybody's house. I hate
to say this, but you know, no, I don't hate
to say it at all. Blake Lively is not like
the shining rose in this.
Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
So why Taylor knows like her friend is a dummy?
Like you brought me into this. Now they want my
text messages for the last ten years. I would be furious.
I would be furious too.
Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
And by the way, friendly reminder, be mindful of what's
in your texts. You know this kind of nonsense. You know,
we keep hearing about this more and more as a
standard for discovery airquots. Discovery it's a very fancy legal
term where they basically say, hey, hand over your phone
because there's a lawsuit. And then you know, things can
be really taken out of context and texts, so you know,
(01:10:41):
as you're texting, just imagine you know, a court of
law reading all of it. Whuh terribly.
Speaker 4 (01:10:48):
That's like all people say to their kids about their iPads.
Anything you look for your principle reading it. So it
is good advice, and yes, so should we all heed
our text messages.
Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Sunday, we're really going to do a big deep dive
on manifestos because our very own body Moven is obsessed.
And also the Long Island serial Killer. We haven't even
touched on that really too much yet, so we'll get
into that more on Sunday as well. More on that
to come. But we also seem you know, our caller
is here right now. What's your question?
Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
Right?
Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Hi?
Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Hello Wade, Hi Wade, what's your question?
Speaker 8 (01:11:33):
So?
Speaker 7 (01:11:34):
I just heard that Luisi Mangioni has received over a
million dollars in donations. I mean, I get how frustrated
folks are with the healthcare system, but what is happening, Like,
when did it become okay to kill somebody?
Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
Thank you? It is that accurate? A million over a
million dollars for a GoFundMe for his defense one million,
one under one thousand and thirty one dollars. You stop,
shut the front door. Really?
Speaker 4 (01:12:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
Yeah, one million, one hundred thousand, thirty one dollars. Meanwhile,
let's not let's not forget that. You know, poor Mattie
Mogan's family, who is a victim in Moscow, Idaho, from
buying Colberger, can barely get twenty thousand dollars to attend
the trial, you know, I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
That's it's sort of Verty's daughter. Yeah, yeah, that's rightfully unbearable.
And to your point, Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonzalvez, his family,
Ethan Chapin's family. They've all, you know, an van Konodles
family in Washington, they've all started these gofundmes so that
they could at least attend this really in jail. Meanwhile, Luigi,
(01:12:42):
who's you know, allegedly a killer? That is really what
do you make now? It's my understanding it's specified for
his defense fund. Is that right? It's not like to
him personally? Is it like?
Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
He can't You can't commit a crime and benefit from
it financially, it's against the law. So this half to
be for his defense fund.
Speaker 4 (01:13:01):
It's for his defense fund. But also he comes from
his background is a lot of wealth and privilege, and
so of all the people who quote need it, I
don't think he's one of them. And I know lawyers
are expensive, but also how many people aren't don't even
(01:13:22):
have the opportunity to choose their own attorneys because they
can't afford them. And kind of you get who you get.
Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
Well, let's not forget either this is a federal attorney.
They're even more costly.
Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Yeah, and it is a federal case, and you know
and and and but true, that's shocking to me. Wade,
great question, and thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (01:13:43):
Ye please thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
Stay stay tuning in. More on this to come, and
listen again. I know I've said this before, but we
have so many things to unpack Sunday, but it's been
our first full week, so thanks for hanging with us,
and yes, we definitely want to hear from you. Eight
eight eight three one Crime On Sunday, we're talking manifestos
Karen Reid, the Long Island serial killer. So our socials
(01:14:07):
are at True Crime Tonight's show, plus at True Crime
Tonight on Facebook. More on that to come. This is
True Crime Tonight where we talk true crime all the time.
And thank you for the wonderful night.
Speaker 4 (01:14:20):
Thank you for the wonderful night and the wonderful week.
Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Yeah, stay safe, everybody,
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