Alternate Juror in Diddy Trial Speaks Out — 300 Pages of Notes Later; Live in the Courtroom with Bryan Kohberger — Hardly a Blink in Sight - True Crime Tonight

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. It is July third, and
we have a stack knight of headlines. If you've been
following closely, The Diddy verdicts have made us all crazy.
As we know, he is not going home on bail
anytime soon, and we have much to still unpack on
that front. Also the Suzanne Morphy case, she has more

(00:40):
few rather you know, it's looking more and more like
her husband may have killed her. So new developments on
that case as well. Also the manhunt for Travis Decker,
the man accused of murdering his own three daughters. We
also have some new information on that. But first the
Brian Coberger jaw dropping developments. As you all all have
been following, as have we, he has confessed. He has

(01:03):
said he is now guilty to all four counts of
murders and the Idaho College murders and listen, it has
It's left us all a little nauseous to be honest
and now we have with us, thankfully, we have Anjeanette
Levy who's joining us from Law Crime tonight. She's been
there in the courtroom real time. She's also kt Royalty
in our Hearts. She appears in all of our podcasts,

(01:27):
all of our documentaries, including the one that just dropped
on Peacock. We hope you'll check it out, the Idaho
College murders. That really gets us up to speed as
to how we got here in this you really heart
wrenching case. So Angeinette, welcome, and I'm Stephanie Leidecker. I'm
here of course with body Movin and Courtney Armstrong. And
before we jump in, we just want to make sure

(01:48):
you know we want to hear from you. Eight eight
eight to three to one crime. Just join the conversation.
If you download the iHeart app, there's this little button
in the right hand corner. You just push it, leave
them and then it's called a little talkback and then
suddenly you're on the show. So if you don't feel
like chatting, you could also just leave us a message.
So the courtroom, Coburger in person, the families all there

(02:12):
on all sides. Enginette We've all been following your coverage.
You were literally holding court for twenty four hours straight,
seemingly also on your YouTube channel. Extraordinary work. You must
be exhausted. Welcome back. I know you just landed and
we're so happy you're here.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Welcome well, thanks for having me, and congratulations on this
awesome show. I think it's amazing and you guys are
like number one on podcasts, so congratulations. Yeah, it's been
a real whirlwind.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
You know.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
I can't say I'm totally shocked, but I am shocked
right because it seemed like Brian Coberger was just he
was going to march toward trial. He was not willing
to do this, at least until last week. You know,
I had interviewed so many defense attorneys and even prosecutors
who handled this toemy cases, who you know, back when

(03:01):
the judge said I'm not suppressing this evidence, we were
all kind of like, how are they not talking plea?
How are they not talking flee? You know, and you know,
take the dath County off the table in exchange for
pleading guilty, and something's changed. I don't know what it is.
Maybe he just sat in jail long enough and looked
at the evidence and realized, Okay, we've reached the end

(03:21):
of the line. Ann Taylor cannot file any more motions.
She's not getting a delay. We can't point a finger
at four other people. The judge says, it's all speculation.
Who knows what happened, but it's certainly been a whirlwind.
And being in that courtroom and watching him walk in,
you know, he has kind of an awkward gait and
awkward way about him. I think I may have seen

(03:42):
him blank three times four times throughout the whole hearing.
He's it just was so somber, it was so heavy.
And then seeing the other side of the courtroom was
had to be four rows full of people, victims' families
just packed in there, and then Michael Coburger, Brian Coberger's
father and mother sitting by themselves, by his members of

(04:06):
his defense team in the front row on the defense side.
It was just a stunning it was a stunning day,
a stunning moment, and watching him stand up and just
so assertively answer yes to the judges question, and it
was it was so strange, Stephanie, it's still kind of
sinking in and hitting me the gravity of what happened yesterday,

(04:28):
that after all of this time, that he finally stood
up in open court and said, yes, I did this,
And the judge said, we need to be sure, we
need to be sure that you actually committed these crimes
and that you did this. We don't want you admitting
to something you didn't do. And he said, yes, he
did it, and there was no hesitation, there was no
sense of like, I'm sorry this happened. When I watched, correct.

Speaker 5 (04:52):
I mean, it was like he was confirming his order
with the waitress, very just yes, yes, correct.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
You know I remember, you know, we've covered the Pike
County massacre out of Ohio together, and I remember telling
you guys, it's a different kind of thing. But watching
Jake Wagner in that case talk about planning and carrying
out the murders of eight people, it was like he
was talking about doing his laundry. It was a little
bit kind of like that, but a different type of
cold kind of a iciness. I mean, he's he's a

(05:24):
very cold person, and you look at him, and I
don't think that you would look at him and say
this is the type of guy from the outside, where
I would look at this guy and think he would
do this. He walks in and he seems awkward. Yes,
And I have to tell you, Stephanie, that when Bill
Thompson was reading, you know, his statement of facts or

(05:44):
whatever you want to call it, I watched Brian Coberger
that whole time, and I think I saw him blink
maybe once or twice that whole time, but he just
stared at Bill Thompson and it was as if he
was transfixed by what Bill Thompson was reciting. And I
was waiting for some type of reaction and it was

(06:05):
like he was in a zone and he just kept
staring without blinking, and I was waiting. I was waiting
for him almost to jump up and say, well, no,
you missed something there, or that's not quite right. I
know I did this that, you know what I mean.
It was just but he literally it was like his
eyes were wide open because you couldn't really tell. I

(06:26):
don't think you could see it on the zoom cameras
from the courtroom.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
No, because it was kind of far away. Our footage,
our perspective was kind of far away. All of us
watching on a screen, which is different, you know, or
even I can't imagine. It did seem like he was
ordering a ham sandwich and that he was sort of unaffected,
and maybe that's just you know, he's you know, psyching
himself up or out. You know. We've been desperate to

(06:51):
hear more about the parents and sort of his parents specifically,
because they haven't been appearing at these hearings, and the
sisters were not there, right.

Speaker 5 (06:59):
Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Correct? His sisters were not there, and I looked over
immediately to see who was there on his side.

Speaker 6 (07:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
I think it's very very interesting, you know, because there's
been that reporting out there from I believe Dateline reported
that one of the sisters at that Christmas break had
said to her father, we think you know, I think
that he did it, you know, and she wanted to
look at the car well, and she didn't go to.

Speaker 5 (07:25):
The extradition the extradition hearing in Pennsylvania. She didn't go
to that.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
I think they I think they did. If you go
back and look at the pictures, I think they did go.
If you look, there are two women with mom. If
you go back and look at these news photos, yeah,
they're wearing masks, COVID type masks.

Speaker 5 (07:42):
Maybe that's why I thought she wasn't there, because That's
what put me on her radar to begin with, was
that she wasn't there, or it was reported that she
wasn't there. But let me, I'll go back and look.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, I think he might want to go because I
went back and looked myself and there were two younger women.
I mean, you know, not younger, younger, but probably third
because he's the youngest, and I think there is a
gap there. But yeah, it's just they were not there,
but mom and dad were interesting.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Heavy.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
This is your crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney Armstrong.
I'm here with Body Moven and Stephanie Leidecker, and we
are joined by journalists an Jeannette Levy. She is telling
us about what it was like to be in the
courtroom when Brian Colberger changed his plea too guilty of
murdering the four University of Idaho college students. We want

(08:31):
to hear from you. What are your thoughts about this
change of plea. We're at eighty eight three to one
crime or you can always send us a talkback that's
on the iHeartRadio app. You just click on the red
microphone in the upper right hand corner, leave a message
and you're on the show, so Anjeanette, as you mentioned,
we have been in courtrooms together before, also with multiple

(08:54):
murder victims at the center of the trial, and the
feeling of being there with the victims' family members, it's
such a hard thing to describe unless you've sat there.
Did you notice any kind of interaction with Brian Kolberger's family?
Were they making eye contact?

Speaker 2 (09:16):
What was that like?

Speaker 3 (09:17):
Well, Brian Koberger's mom and dad were to my left.
I mean I was actually fairly close to them, and
I was fairly close to him. I had a really
good view of him, and so they were in the
front row. You couldn't see them on camera, and I
didn't see any type of interaction. You know, they let

(09:38):
them enter and leave the courtroom at different times, I'm
sure by design to keep them separated, so you know,
I did not. I saw Michael Koburger look over at
Bill Thompson as he was reading some of the different
statements of fact, and he almost And I don't know
Michael Coburger, so I have no baseline and we've not

(10:01):
really ever seen him except for that one extradition hearing
when he walked in and he had a mask on
like a COVID type mask or whatever. But he it
almost seemed like he was looking over sternly. And I
mean it's a serious occasion, so I don't know if
I could say he was glaring at him or just
looking sternly at Bill Thompson. But the mother, Marianne, I

(10:23):
didn't see her looking over at Bill Thompson. I didn't
see them looking over at the victims. I did see
the victims looking at Coburger. Ben Mogan in particular, Maddie's
biological father, was kind of hunched over and just he
was just glaring at Coburger. Christy Gains saw this. She
was in the back row, and you could see her.

(10:44):
I mean, you could just see the anger and the
pain on her face. I didn't see her crying, but
I saw Kaylee's aunt, Christie's sister crying and wiping away tears.
At times. The Chapins were all over the way at
the far end of the row, so I could see
Ethan's father, you know, looking upset, but I couldn't tell
if he was crying or anything like that, but it

(11:06):
was just it was very emotional. Michael Coburger at times
would put his arm around his wife, and she would
actually she had those hearing assisted headphones on. You could
tell she probably has some issues hearing. But he would
at times put his arm around his wife. But I
didn't see any tears or anything like that. And she
kind of kept her head kind of down, but she
was just kind of watching the proceeding. She's kind of

(11:27):
a shorter woman. It was weird because Brian Coburger when
he entered, I didn't really see him even look over
at his parents. He kind of came just right over
to the defense table and sat down and started talking
to Ann Taylor, just slightly, nothing big. She just showed
him the laptop and everything. I'm sure she had the
plea agreement pulled up and that was that.

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Wow, that's interesting. Well, listen, stay with us because after
the break, we are going to have more with journalist
Anjeanette Levy and what it was like to be inside
the courtroom during Brian Coberger's pleading guilty of the Idaho
College murders, and we'll be breaking down the implications of

(12:09):
the Diddy trial verdict, plus more headlines. Do not forget
to give us a call. We're at eight to ay
through one crime. We want to hear your thoughts. We
want you to join the conversation true Crimesmen.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. And Jeanette Levy who's joining
us from Law Crime Tonight Katie Family as well. She
too has participated in every single one of our documentaries
as well as our podcasts, including the Idaho Massacre. And again,
congratulations on your great work on the Peacock documentary that

(12:54):
just came out today, the Idaho student murders. You're tremendous
in it. And listen, you're it's frush back from the
courthouse and Boise So Brian Coburger, he has changed his plea.
He has pled guilty to all four charges in the
Idaho college murders. The hearing was yesterday and Jeanette was
in the room and you know, just describing to us

(13:16):
what it's been like to be there with all of
the family members on both sides. Right, So you have
four incredible victims, their families also the accused now not
even accused any longer. The killer, the monster, the maniac,
the devil himself and his family, his parents, you know,

(13:36):
having to be in that same room as well, and
then you were there. Listen, Courtney was in there. We
talk about this all the time. Courtney locked eyes with
a killer once. We've all been in courtrooms with very
bad people who have killed. I've never locked eyes with
anyone who has really by design. I don't know why.
And when Courtney did, I was like, Courtney, no, close

(13:56):
your eyes and you know again, because it's a feeling
in the room when you're with somebody who has taken
the life of another. And Jeanette, this is one of
those cases like no other I could only imagine just
as a human being, you must be wiped out, and
you know, your empathy for the families, etc. Tell us Mork,
you know the dad, Michael Coburger, who now you know,

(14:18):
is the father of a man who is guilty murdering
four people. Such an overkill, so heinous. There's been some
speculation that maybe he had, you know, a hint of this,
or that maybe Brian confessed to him on that infamous
drive home for the holidays. We know now from the
dateline leaks that he called home Brian Coburger. When I

(14:39):
say he, I mean Brian Coburger. After the murders and
before the bodies were discovered, he called the house that
he grew up in Pennsylvania. We assumed to dad. Was
there a sense that maybe Dad knew? Or is that
the kind of thing that you might have a feeling
and just of course don't want to believe it, or

(14:59):
was he straight up in the dark.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
Well, you know, it's interesting you bring that up because
there has been speculation that possibly that he didn't want
his parents testifying. There was discussion that the state was
going to call his parents to testify. I mean there
was talk about them, you know, specific family members testifying.
We didn't know which ones because the every you know,

(15:24):
we're back to sealing every document in this case. Hitler
for a time was like Judge Hitler said, he wants
everything to be open redactings rather than ceiling and then okay,
now we're back to stealing everything. And I get that
to a degree because people have been harassed in this case.
It was insane. The level of harassment in this case

(15:46):
in dirt. Yeah, and it's some of the social media
stuff that's gone on in this case has been absolute
madness and people you know, thinking, oh, this fraternity brother
did this or did that, and hopefully this stopped snow right,
but there has been speculation, and especially because Brian called

(16:06):
his mom apparently at six am that morning. Now we
can say he killed the kids, and then he goes
like he takes that circuitous route south of Moscow, turns
his phone back on. Does that kind of loop or
whatever that you drives back to Pullman if you look
at the map, does whatever he does? I'm assuming he

(16:28):
I'm assuming he showers, right, I mean, you'd have to
shower after committing a crime like that. You would think
there would be some amount of blood on your clothing
or whatnot. You would think he would have disposed of
that clothing in some way, shape or form. He commits
these murders between four am and four twenty somewhere in

(16:49):
that window, drives home, he's on the phone with mom
for an hour between six and seven am later that morning,
I believe he So that's you know, nine am East time.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Can we stop there for one second, just for one
second in this timeline for anyone who's just playing catch up,
because I actually thought they.

Speaker 5 (17:07):
Called that he called his Well, it's a phone connected
to the father's account. It could be anybody in the family.
We don't know, and a lot of people are saying
it's the mom, some are saying it's dead.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
It we don't know yet.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Imagine the phone's registered to dad, right, Okay, so we
may not know if we may not know if it's mom. Okay,
the phone registered to Dad. But I think there have
been some people saying he actually talked to Mom, So
I guess we don't know for certain.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
So let's just play that for one second to take
a beat. So this is a person who was studying
criminology getting his PhD. He goes and randomly slaughters for
people when again we've had Joseph Scott Morgan forensics expert
on so many times it's a blood bath not to
be underestimated. So the idea that this one person could

(17:54):
exit that crime get in his white Alantra, likely covered
in blood, would have to assume sort of freaked out.
There's adrenaline involved. He was using this you know, kbar
crazy knife that's very like Mortal Kombat, very aggressive, very physical.
Then he goes, turns his phone on and while driving,

(18:15):
calls mom or Dad or somebody in that house to say, what, like,
what is that? Is it a manic phone call? Like
you know, I listen, you're you're hopped up. Maybe he's
calling mom and telling her all fun things, or maybe
he's not and he's confessing. That's that piece of it
I find downright harrowing.

Speaker 5 (18:38):
Yeah, I do too, and it's something that we're definitely
going to get to. I'mbody Movin. I'm here with journalists,
the wonderful and talented journalist Angela Levy, Stephanie Leidecker, and
Corney Armstrong. I'mbody Movin. We're talking about the Idaho student
murders and if you want to weigh in with your thoughts,
give us a call at eight eight thirty one Crime
or use the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app. What do

(18:59):
you think?

Speaker 3 (19:00):
I find it to be stunning and I personally in
covering this and thinking about it so many times, I've
been to the King Road House. I don't think this
went according to Brian Coberger's plan. I really don't think
he went in there to kill four people. I think
it's spiraled out of control. And when I and that
is no. I think he went in there targeting Mattie.

(19:22):
That's the bedroom he went to. I think this was
a sexually motivated crime. Just because there wasn't a sexual
assault doesn't mean that it wasn't sexually motivated. I think
that Keiley being in the bed surprised him. He didn't
expect that. And I've thought for some time now, because
her pink boots were in the window, that you could

(19:43):
see the pink. You know, you can see from up
in that if you've been there that parking area, you
could easily parked there and see right into her window.
I've thought for a long time now that she was
the intended target and that he went in there. From
the court documents, we know that she was so intoxicated
she had no defensive wounds. She would not have been

(20:06):
able to fight back. The state had an expert they
were going to have testify to that in rebuttal if
the case had gone to trial, and I think that
he went in there. I think that part of that
k bar she's being on the bed was he put
it down. I think that that knife was taken out
to be part of a potential sexual assault, and that

(20:27):
he was going to use that as either to intimidate
her into getting away or to keep her quiet if
she woke up. Dateline reported there were those searches for
pornography about sleeping forced passed out all of that. I
think Kaylee woke up and he didn't expect that. There
was a confrontation, and I think the whole thing just
spiral about of control. And then you hear you know,

(20:49):
you have DM the surviving roommates saying she heard somebody
say somebody's here. That could have been Xana, and then
he comes down the stairs and it just went sideways.
So who knows what he said at that six am
call to either mom or dad or on the way
back to Pennsylvania. I mean, maybe there was something, but

(21:09):
then it doesn't explain the thumbs up selfie later. Who knows?
I mean, was it an alibi call? Some of my mom?
What do you mean? I killed a bunch of people?
And I got on the phone with my mom and
started talking to her about school and how things were going. Well,
you know, who knows.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
Wow, it seems when you were just laying out what
you kind of had thought had happened, that Maddie was
the intended target and things went south from there. Understatement
of the world. I feel like Bill Thompson, the prosecutor,
he did indicate when he was laying out the facts
of the case that his exact verbage was something like

(21:46):
he may not have intended to go in and murder
for people, however that is the outcome.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
So I feel like he didn't have evidence. Yeah, he
said they didn't have evidence to show that he intended
to do that to kill four people. He kept talking
about the evidence they didn't have, which I thought was weird.
I'm like, are you trying to justify this to the public.
I mean, is that why you keep downplaying your case
a little bit? Well, we don't have this, we don't

(22:15):
have that, And can I just say, I'm really shocked,
I'm horrendously shocked. If they didn't do this, they haven't
said they didn't. If they didn't sit Briyan Coburger down
in an interview room and record a statement from him
and the most heinous crime Idaho has ever seen, and
say fill in the blanks for us, and what did

(22:36):
you do with the murder weapon? Then that, MA me,
is a huge misstep.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
I think it's as though enraging.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, like that would see it, like, fill in the blanks,
fill in the blanks for us, Why did you do it?
Who is the target? Who did you why did you
do this? Fill in all the blanks and where is
the knife? What did you do with it? He just said, oh,
you went down to buy the Snake River, you know.
And I was like, what, Like, come on, like, why

(23:05):
didn't you require that and do something like this. You
don't just say something to the family and a zoom
call and then on a Friday and then ask them
if they'd be okay with it, and then and then
send them a letter on a Sunday, right sit down
with them in person. I would think this would be
something you would guys would talk about in person during

(23:26):
an in person meeting, for that would be a longer meeting.
So I think it's all frankly spending.

Speaker 5 (23:33):
I agree, and you know, thank you so much for
joining us. Please be sure to follow Enginette on YouTube
at Enginette five. Also be sure to check out and
download her podcast, Crime Fix with Anjeanette Levy, found on
every podcast platform and YouTube, and coming up next more
on making of the KT studios new documentary The Idaho

(23:54):
Student Murderers found on Peacock Stick. Right here through Crime.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Tonight, Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're
talking true crime all the time, and we have a
very special KT guest, Anjeanette Levy, who is an incredible

(24:21):
journalist from law and crime. She's also in all of
our podcasts and all of our documentaries, including the Peacock
documentary about the Idaho student murders called the Idaho College Murders,
which just came out today, And A Jeannette has been
in the courtroom, so she just returned. As anyone knows

(24:42):
who's been following this case closely, Brian Coberger, who once
said he was not guilty in these murders of four
incredible college students, has now changed his plea to guilty
and next steps will be sentencing. And according to him,
yeah he did it. He did it all four cases.
So Anjeanette has been filling us in about what it

(25:04):
was just like in this courtroom. And you know, it
was pretty harrowing in that it's been a long time
even for me to have seen stakes that high in
any scenario, and in any case when somebody confesses to
taking the life of another, it's pretty like your breath
kind of leaves your body right now. Times that by

(25:24):
four and he was just so nonchalant about it, and
you know, has such a good liar to be able
to pull this off with his parents sitting right behind
him as he says, yes, I did it. On the
flip of that, we're all kind of annoyed that he
wasn't forced to give maybe some more information. And you know,
we were just talking about the fact that maybe at

(25:45):
his sentencing he'll have to say something more specific other
than yes, you know, where's the knife? What was the plan,
what was the intention? Why that night specifically? What person specific?
What can we learn from this in hindsight, because it's
people like this that make the rest of us all

(26:06):
feel so unsafe. Yeah, and you know, what's your take
on that?

Speaker 3 (26:09):
I agree with you one hundred percent. And I think
that I think that if he explained why he did
this when he started feeling the urge to do this.
Was this a fascination with Ted Bundy, you know, after
seeing the dateline stuff, And I think that people had
kind of wondered about that before. I certainly had, just
because of the parallels with Ted Bundy being in Washington

(26:32):
State during his college years and you know, the sorority
girl aspect of this, like we might be able to
learn something from this, like, when did you start thinking
about this? And when did you start, you know, the
porn searches. What's up with that, Brian, When did you
start thinking about that?

Speaker 5 (26:51):
And was it in March when you bought a knife
or was it, you know, just a convenience that you
had already purchased this knife, Like was it all the
way back in March? Was it before that? Have you
done this to animals before? Did you start fires? Did
you stutter as you know, like all those things, all
those you know predicates for being this.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Kind of And did you move Did you move to
Washington on purpose? On purpose?

Speaker 2 (27:15):
It's like the farthest you.

Speaker 5 (27:16):
Can get from Pennsylvania, the farthest he can get.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
We got to stop even right there. And I think
that is one of the big ticket items that we
can finally talk about a little bit more freely now
that he has confessed. We've all debated this so much.
Did he go to get his PhD from Pennsylvania moved
to Washington and did that specifically because he already had

(27:41):
killing on the mind. Did he have a certain person
on the mind. Is one of these victims a reminder
to somebody else in his backstory? Like it just seems
so random and again so big, and he was studying
the crimes he's now being, you know, frankly that he's
now admitted to. You know, he was also pretty sloppy
in so many ways as well. So I agree with you.

(28:04):
I think we all do. The spontaneity of it. Maybe
it just kind of went sideways, even for him. I
just think we should have gotten more information yesterday. I agree.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
Can we hold that thought for one second because we
have a call from Cynthia from Canada and you have
been our favorite question asker. How are you, Cynthia?

Speaker 6 (28:28):
I'm good yourself?

Speaker 3 (28:29):
Hi?

Speaker 4 (28:30):
Great?

Speaker 2 (28:31):
What's your question?

Speaker 6 (28:33):
I'm probably a little bit behind, not behind, I'm a
day behind on hearing the shows because you don't get
it live here in Canada. But my question was in
regards to the Idaho masker and whether or not the
victim's families when they're doing their victims impact statements, if
they spoke first and then the defendant spoke, or if

(28:56):
the defendant spoke first and then the victim impact statement,
because I think if the defendant went after them, he
is getting the last word. So like you know, he
put the last word in when he you know, murdered them,
and then if he spoke last at the sentencing or
the conference in the court room, he's getting the last
word again. So I'm just curious as to how that

(29:17):
worked there, if that's happened yet again, because I'm I'm
a day behind them.

Speaker 4 (29:22):
You are, actually you are not a day behind because
that actually what you're talking about has not yet happened.

Speaker 5 (29:29):
Oh go ahead, body, So you typically what would happen
is is you're right, the unfortunately right, The family or
the prosecution would speak first, and then there would be
the victim impact statements, and then the defendant, if he
chooses to, can allocute or you know, address the court.
But we don't know if he's going to do that.

(29:50):
It's not it's not it's not something that he's forced
to do. It's completely his opinion or his option to
do or not. So we don't know if that's going
to happen. But yes, of the defendant would have the
last word. That's my understanding. Somebody, if there's a lawyer
out there, maybe we'd get Jarrett and ask him. But
my understanding is that that's what happens the situation.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
I think what Cynthia is also responding to. Is something
we're all a little kind of worked up about. Is
just the idea that it appears that Brian Coberger is
calling the shots right now. Oh for the victims' families
who's lost their loved ones, suddenly they're getting this information
that you know, they're not going to a trial, even
though they've probably had to move mountains and leave their
jobs and figure out how they're going to spend all

(30:33):
of August going to some death sentenced trial in Boise
For a guy who's been lying this whole time anyway,
and for him to just stand there and not have
to a give any feedback or to get the last word,
I think that's a really great point as always, Cynthia.

Speaker 4 (30:51):
Yeah, thank you so much for the call. This is
True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney Armstrong here with
Body Move and Stephanie Leidecker and journalist A Jeannette Levy.
I have a question for you and Jeanette. So I
remember so clearly speaking to you back in November, I
mean days after this had happened, November twenty twenty three,

(31:14):
and you were in Moscow and you described just what
it felt like, what it felt like to be there
by the house on King's Road, and you described how
you know, it was such a college house with sort
of the couch still outside because they had been parties.
Can you explain what what is the difference if any

(31:37):
of the town or that you felt when you were there.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
You know, when I was there the first time, it
was well, first of all, it was freezing cold. It
had started to snow. There was a lot of snow
on the ground, and it was scary. Honestly, it was scary.
A lot of the kids they were finishing up the
semester and they had gone home city said they could
finish their classes remotely. Their parents didn't want them there

(32:04):
and a lot of the kids weren't even going to class.
They were doing their classes, you know. I went to
the Sigma Kay House where Ethan was a fraternity member.
A lot of those fraternity members were doing their classes
from the Sigma Kai house. I think like that. I
saw the president of the fraternity at that time walking

(32:25):
to class. But it was scary. I mean, life was
still going on in Moscow, but a lot of people,
you know, were in fear because we nobody knew at
that time who it was or what.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
It could be standing next year at the coffee shop.

Speaker 4 (32:42):
Correct, you know, I don't.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
Know, yeah right, it could be anybody. And I remember specifically,
I was with a photographer, Christian Denik. We were out
there together and we had this big jeep wagoneer that
we rented, and we were on campus out there at
that time of year. It gets dark at four thirty
in the afternoon, and it was seven o'clock at night,

(33:06):
and we were trudging around on campus trying to get
people to talk with us. I mean, nobody wanted to
talk to us. Nobody. I mean it was like radio silence,
you know. And we did get a couple of people
to talk with us, and then you know, of course,
and then it was and I don't scaryily, you know,
I've covered news for a long time. I'm used to

(33:27):
trudging around get trying to get people to talk to me,
and you know, bad neighborhoods quote unquote bad neighborhoods and
all types of stuff. And I looked at Christian at
one point it was about seven o'clock at night, and
I said to him, you know what, I think we
need to go back to the hotel, Like why are
we doing. Why are we out here? Nobody's talking to us,

(33:47):
and we could be any of these people we just
didn't tried to interview could be the killer. So we
have no clue because the person who did this has
no conscience. It's like, you can't do this. And then
like all of a sudden, you're like, oh, I feel
really bad about this. I mean, I guess you could,
but in my mind, to carry out such a heinous crime,

(34:09):
you would have to have a level of some major
compartmentalization skills and the ability to just do something so horrific,
no impulse control. I'm like, God only knows who this
person is. So and I remember going to a business
specifically and asking them to, like if they would speak

(34:30):
with me, and the guy was like, you know, basically
like we're over it with you. Media people who have
come into our town have no idea the damage you
were doing to our town. And he said, this town
does not have the patience for what it's going to
take to solve this crime, and he thought it would
never be solved, and you know, but he was furious.

(34:53):
He said, you're probably the three hundredth person journalist who's
come in here. Media person newsperson who's come in here
to try to talk to me, and he's like, I
have no interest in talking to you. I want all
of you people to leave our town. Like I mean,
it was just yeah, it was a mess. It was
It felt so raw and like walking into this beautiful

(35:15):
little college town that was I don't know, it's like
the scene of this like major It was almost like
a disaster. And then you had just like other people
who were just walking around as it's like, oh yeah,
no big deal. Like I I met some DoorDash driver,
not the door dash driver now, but I remember meeting
a DoorDash driver showing up at Queen Road and he

(35:35):
was like packing heat, he had a gun on him.
I was like okay. I was like you know what,
like I'll just go back to the hotel. It's getting dark.

Speaker 4 (35:42):
Oh my gosh. Thank you for painting such a picture
of the town and what it was like inside the
courtroom with Brian Coberger changing his plea and everyone should
be following an Jeanette Levy on YouTube at Anjeanette five
and also downloading her podcast Crime Fix with Ange at
Levy Listen.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
This Brian Coburger case has made us all lose our minds.
He has changed his plea to guilty in all four
counts in the Idaho student murders. We just dropped a
documentary at KAT Studios on Peacock about this case, and honestly,
we're all a little close to it right now. So
it's been an emotional week even just kind of being

(36:23):
in the beehive on this one. So we really hope
you check. It's the name of Peacock, the Idaho student murders,
and you know, we hope you enjoy it. I know
the topic is not really a happy one, but I
think it's important that we talk about this stuff because again,
it's such a big thing that, you know, we guys
got to do our best to understand it. And then

(36:45):
also Diddy will be unpacking the new developments and that
as well. He is not guilty of Rico, but he
also didn't make bail, so we have some new developments
on that front too. We have a talk back. Can
we throw to that real quick?

Speaker 7 (37:00):
Hi, Heathery're from Wisconsin. Just curious if you feel that
the prosecutor and the Brian Kohlberger case being a little
inexperience in trying a case of this magnitude that it
is possible that the plea deal was the best option
as the defense may have been able to poke holes

(37:21):
in the case causing him to be acquitted due to
just not having the experience.

Speaker 4 (37:27):
Listen, that's agreation, yeah, and a valid question. So what
we can say is that Bill Thompson, he does have
quite a bit of law experience. I mean, he graduated
from law school back in nineteen eighty and he was
elected Lateta County prosecutor back in nineteen ninety two.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
He still holds that position.

Speaker 5 (37:47):
And this was a big, big case.

Speaker 4 (37:50):
It was.

Speaker 5 (37:51):
But just but is any prosecutor prepared for something like this,
right right, Courtney.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
Like no, of this size and magnitude. It's a one
in a career. But of the people, I will say
Bill Thompson. He also he does oversee hundreds of cases
per year. He tried the only homicide case in Idaho
without a body, oh Dan he did. That was back
in twenty fourteen. Yeah, and he did successfully seek the

(38:21):
death penalty. This was back in two thousand and five,
and there was complications at the end, but he was
successful in that and then death sentence was imposed. But
then it was later converted to life in prison. So listen,
I'm not hired to do pr for Bill Thompson, but
I did just want to lay out that.

Speaker 5 (38:41):
You did a pretty good job, you.

Speaker 4 (38:44):
Know, as much experience. To body's point, how do you
ever prepare for this?

Speaker 5 (38:49):
But does you know the weight of this kind of
case way heavy on the prosecutor's office. Right, that's a
lot of pressure on any kind of prosecutor, I would imagine,
I mean, I would imagine no matter how many decades
of experience you have, this is a The eyes of
the nation are on this case, right. This is the
case that even people who don't know true crime that

(39:10):
I talk to like at work and stuff like my
day job, they know this case.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
It is very true and one mistake because the stakes
are so high. It's a death sentence trial that look,
that person could straight up walk, And I guess that's
a very you know, that's a tenuous thing, and it is.
It's two separate issues, right is it that the plea
deal is unjust? Is one piece of it and then
the other side of it. I think really the emotion

(39:36):
comes from maybe Bill Thompson not holding the hands of
some of the family members enough during this very difficult thing.
You know, maybe it's not so much the decision, but
rather how that decision was handled, and again, so many
moving pieces. Who's to say. We're going to continue this
conversation though, thank you for the talk back. We want

(39:56):
to hear from you. Eight eight eight three to one Crime.
Keep it coming. We're talking true crime all the time,
Moron Ditty. Also new developments in the Suzanne Morphy case.
We'll be back, Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. Well,

(40:21):
we're talking true crime all the time. It's been a
wild week in the headlines. Courtrooms, trials, We've never had
more of them, So I feel like we're kind of
bursting with stories at this point, sadly, but I definitely
want to make sure we're hitting all of them. Obviously, Diddy,
We're going to get to that later in the show
as well. Somebody who was not on the jury but

(40:41):
was the alternate has spoken out now for the first time,
and it's giving us sort of an inside look on
what his interpretation of what went down with this latest development.
Because Ditty was found not guilty on the big charge,
which was Rico and then Brian Coberger of course has
changed his plea in the Idaho student murder. We just
dropped a documentary from KT's studios on Peacock. We hope

(41:04):
you'll please watch. It's important stuff. And then this Suzanne
Morphew case. This is the woman who was you know,
basically killed and her husband was suspected to be the killer,
but then he got off and now he has been
re arrested and it is not looking great. We have
some new developments on that. And also Travis Decker, the

(41:26):
father accused of killing his three children. The man hunt
for him continues and there's some new evidence to discuss
on that front too, Courtney, do you want to take
us take us to Yeah, Travis Decker, So that's right.

Speaker 4 (41:40):
He still remains at large. And as Stephanie, as you mentioned,
he has been accused of killing his three young daughters,
all under the age of ten. Their names are Patelin, Evelyn,
and Olivia. And this is in Washington State and Travis
had picked up his three daughters on the thirtieth of May.

(42:01):
This was planned visitation. Worth noting that the mother of
his children, his ex wife, tried to fight this from happening,
but the visitation happened. And the girls have not been
seen alive since, nor has Travis Decker. This man hunt
has been in the news quite a bit and there

(42:22):
has been over one hundred law enforcement officers. There have
been US Marshals, the National Guard, canine units, drones, and
volunteers and they have been focusing all over the wilderness
where he went missing. So the big update is DNA
evidence has confirmed that he is connected. So he is

(42:46):
now facing three counts. Travis Decker is facing three counts
of first screen murder and kept kidnapping, and his DNA
testing results confirmed that blood on his truck did indeed
match Travis Decker's DNA and his truck also contained his wallet,
cell phone, dog, his dog, a bloody handprint or more,
and blood matching DNA on the tailgate. So what do

(43:09):
you guys make of this? Is he I know, it's
speculative unless you know, I mean, I guess very dangerous.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
This guy.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
You know he is you know, military trained, We know
he's emotionally very unwell. Obviously he's murdered three of his
own children. This is a dire situation. What happens, what happens?
You know, The assumption is he may be dead but
if he's.

Speaker 5 (43:35):
Not, he's injured, right, if he's injured and bleeding enough
to leave bloody handprints, because right, the manner in which
he murdered his children allegedly was not like a gun
or a knife or anything. So I'm curious on how
he injured himself. But I can't imagine you would have
gotten far if he's bloody enough to leave bloody handprints everywhere.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, it's so curious and very curious.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
And all of you know, all of those members of
law enforcement that I mentioned, I mean, they're just working
around the clock, and yeah, I don't know. I just
sent peace and good wishes to them and hoped that
this nightmare honestly, and soon.

Speaker 5 (44:14):
Hopefully we get a good update, you know, soon on this.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, can I ask a you know, sort of a
layman's question. So you know, we've heard now from the
mother in this you know, tragedy beyond words. She spoke
at her children's memorial man as she composed and has grace,
and you know, this is one of those tragic stories
where she did absolutely everything correctly in what was you know,

(44:39):
a pretty high conflict breakup. You know, they were co parenting.
Dad didn't have a permanent address. She had, you know,
been very accommodating to the schedule, and you know, anybody
whose co parent didn't knows that can be really challenging
at times. And you know, he served in the military
and was suffering some post traumatic strikes, yes we know

(45:00):
that for sure, and allegedly due to combat. Served and
was having a hard time keeping up with his medications
and his mental health. And she flagged that, she flagged that,
she flagged that, she flagged that, and on the flip,
of course, she does not want her children's father to
see her kids. He had begged for this overnight that
she wasn't feeling great about. It's like, what do you

(45:21):
take from that situation. It's like, you know, it's such
a tough spot and I'm sure she's going to turn
now to advocacy or something, but really, I mean, if
she's not the image of strength and honor and you
know what a woman who deserves or you to Courtney,
just to echo what you're saying, all of our love
and support.

Speaker 5 (45:40):
Yeah, definitely, like we're sending her a lot of a
lot of support. In other news, I have an update
on Barry Morphew Bury me Morphew has been indicted by
grand jury in Colorado and he has been extradited from
Arizona to Colorado. Thank god, Morphew, Thank goodness.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Right.

Speaker 5 (45:57):
Morphew is accused of killing his wife, Susanne in May
of twenty twenty. He was arrested like a year almost
to the day later in twenty twenty one, only to
be released without prejudice. And then they found her body
like right after he was released. So and he was
released without prejudice, which means it's not over. They can
arrest him again. They can now. If he was released

(46:19):
with prejudice, they wouldn't be able to arrest him again.
But he was released without prejudice because they didn't try him.
He wasn't tried, he didn't stand trial. They just we're
going to get into this case a lot deeper moved
as we are. But there's a lot that happened with
the prosecution. There's a little bit of hanky panky going
on there, so we're going to get into that. But
the good news is is that he was arrested and

(46:40):
he appeared in his first court hearing in court and
his daughters, who have long stood by his side, saying that,
you know, they support him. They don't think he had
anything to do with this. They you know, they definitely
don't think they he killed their mother. Were in the
court room had his hearing.

Speaker 4 (46:58):
So to what is no, the daughters are still supporting
their father. Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (47:03):
Well, I don't know for sure. They just were in
the courtroom and he smiled at them when entering the courtroom.
So there's no Listen, you can read into a lot
of different things with body language and whatnot, but we
don't know. According to the a copy of the grand
jury indictment, which of course we have, many of Suzanne
Morphew's bones were significantly bleached when they were found in

(47:26):
twenty twenty four where she was found in what that
We don't know one hundred percent what that means because
there's no context. But you know, we talked to Josephcott Morgan,
our friend, the forensics especially you know scientists, the professor,
the expert, and offhand he thinks it means that her
the son bleached. You know that it can that's the

(47:48):
technical term used when you're you know, their bones are
exposed to the elements. So we don't one hundred percent
know what that means, but we're hoping that we will
find out soon. So we're going to be following this
case and we're going to be digging deep into it
very soon, so stand by for that. This is true
Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I am body move in and
I'm here with the lovely Courtney Armstrong and talented Stephanie Leidecker,

(48:09):
and we are talking all the new headlines and all
the cases that we're following. If you want to weigh in,
give us a call at eight eight eight thirty one
Crime or send us a talk back and we'll try
to get to it at the break. Now, if maybe
there's a case you want us to follow, maybe there's
a tip you want to give us a bout a case,
just give us a call and we'll get into it.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
We have some space coming up now that all these
trials are coming to such I know we do, and
to be honest, this more few case has got me
unhinged as well. So I'm so glad we're digging into
this one.

Speaker 5 (48:37):
Yeah, I am too. And this is a case I've
been following for gosh, I think since I think when
he got arrested in twenty twenty one. Is when it
got on my radar and I started timelining everything in front,
you know, my stupid spreadsheets that I have, And so
I'm really super into this case.

Speaker 4 (48:51):
I wait, yeah, I cannot wait to dig into your
five years of knowledge.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
And you know I love I read your spreadsheets a
line by lines.

Speaker 5 (49:01):
So I can't wait to learn, you know, And I
just you know, I just felt so bad for these
You know, his daughters are just lovely, and of course
they don't want to believe that their wonderful father, loving
and doting they've been. You know, he was married to
his wife, their mother for twenty something years and raised them.
They were nineteen and I think seventeen when he was arrested,

(49:23):
so they're older now. But I'm very curious with all
the evidence that's been released in this case. Through the indictment.
We learned that her bones, her bone marrow contained this
chemical called BAM and it stands for something very technical
and that I cannot pronounce and I.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Will not try.

Speaker 5 (49:40):
But it's a tranquilizer that's used on like deer farms,
and he lived on a deer farm in I think
it was in Indiana or Illinois. Always mix those two
states up. Please forgive me Indiana, Illinois, I'm so sorry.
In one of those states, in the Eye States, and
in Colorado where this happened, he was the only one
with a life or prescription for this compound. So the

(50:04):
evidence is pretty staggering. So I'm wondering how they feel now.
And it is Indiana, thank you.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
And look, I mean a lot's been made of the
fact that she had she had met somebody she had
a boyfriend, and that she wanted to covet it information
and apparently he confronted her bury this husband's and maybe
that's the motive. I don't find that very satisfying either,
because again, imagine this guy, if he actually did what

(50:29):
he's being accused of, kills his wife, makes it look
like she fell off her bike on Mother's Day, moves
her body, gets arrested or brought in for custody, not arrested,
but gets you know, he was brought in right and questioned,
then released, and then suddenly her body shows up. So
he's like dressing his deceased wife's body allegedly and then

(50:52):
replacing it. I mean, this is pretty hardcore, right for
his four daughters, who, of course they don't want to
believe this. You know, again, we're not accusing him of murder.
We're just laying out as it's being reported. In many places,
the evidence begins to stack against him, specifically what you're
saying about this drug and.

Speaker 5 (51:09):
Right, the location where her body was found showed no
evidence of her actually passing there, and her initial burial
was not there. There were no bugcasings there were you know,
her hair masks had been gone, which we kind of
think maybe if she was out in the open and
the sun bleached her her bones, the maybe birds used

(51:30):
her hair for nesting, which would happen. You know, they
use fur from animals for nesting nature, and you know
it's nature and so, and her clothes that she was
wearing showed no signs of decom which means, I mean,
it can only mean one thing. Right, he dressed her,
he dressed her. She is after she whoever whoever killed

(51:51):
her or moved her body, he or she dressed her
and moved her body, which is horrifying.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
I have one more question and body. I know we
will be following this in detail over the next weeks
to come, but what was when you said the Shenanigans
with lawyers was someone actually disbarred?

Speaker 2 (52:09):
You said, hanky panky. I know it's funny, Courtney Armstrong,
you're going to stay. I thought that too, and we
were going to the break, so I didn't want to
I dodn't want to mess that up. But I'm curious
on that one too. Okay, well listen, stay tuned for
that because it's not listen and please join this conversation.
Eight eight eight to three to one crime. I know
we've been blowing through a lot of cases with a
lot of information. Again, we are not the experts in

(52:33):
every single thing. You know, we really want to hear
from you. You're our expert also, so your opinion really counts,
and you know, please join the discussion.

Speaker 5 (52:42):
Yes, please please join the discussion.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Did he add it again? Did he know one of
the alternate jurors has stepped in and has something to
say about his experience in the beehive in this you know,
ongoing trial that never seems to end, Courtney, do you
want to fill us in on that?

Speaker 4 (52:58):
Yeah? Well, the trial is I mean, aside from sentencing,
the trial is closed done. So yep? Did he was
charged on five counts. He was found guilty of two
of the smallest charges, the largest being racketeering, which he
was not charged.

Speaker 5 (53:15):
Literally the smallest charges right, literally like in a ladder
of charges, these would be the two bottom rungs of
exactly at least monumental of all the charges.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
Yep. And as Stephanie was referencing, an alternate juror on
the case has come out. His name is George. We
don't know his last name, and that should remain that
way as long as he prefers. He came out with
his thoughts on the verdict. And keep in mind, if
you are an alternate juror, then you are not in

(53:48):
the deliberations. Although in this case, what were the deliberations
were that one day where at the end of it
they said they were at complete crossroads, couldn't decide. And
then day two it was something like two hours or something.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
And it was a total of an day and a
half probably all in. It doesn't sound like this jerm
missed too much.

Speaker 4 (54:08):
Too much exactly, so what George does say and he
has used three hundred and fifty pages of his quote
copious notes.

Speaker 5 (54:18):
Wait a minute, he was able to take his notes.

Speaker 4 (54:21):
Or he had his notes. He referenced that he had them,
So whether he has to leave them there, I don't know,
but I what he has spoken about was that he
had all of these many, many pages, and he said
that he agrees with the verdict that was you know,
that just happened what two days ago, it feels like
five years ago, and he doesn't think that he should

(54:44):
have been found guilty of the most serious charges levied
against him. What he did say was it was you know,
riveting and eye opening the trial, that the notes during
the trial, the prosecution he did not feel was able
to prove the rico or the prostitution charges beyond a
reasonable doubt. And what he also said was at the

(55:07):
activity in the videos that we and everyone else have
spoken so much about to him didn't seem forced and
was even quote pretty tame and allegedly mostly showed baby
oil being rubbed on those involved in the sex act,
which I find that very surprising.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
That the freak off tapes were not freaky enough. I suppose,
you know, it's funny you should bring that up. I mean,
because there's such a divided there's so much division right
now about this. You know, we're seeing people outside the courthouse.
They were cheering, they were themselves like tossing around baby
oil and reveling in this in this decision, and it

(55:46):
seems to be pretty divided. And I mean, god, I've
seen so many hideous things said by you know women.
Frankly again, some of the victims who came out and
spoke basically just saying that like, look, you took the money,
you know, you get what you what you kind of got,
you know, like you signed up for this, and in
the minute somebody starts paying your rent, you're kind of

(56:09):
giving away your freedom. And I gotta tell you that
to me kind of strikes a chord in such a
deep way. A I don't agree, but bigger it doesn't
matter if I agree with it. I do think it's
worth us really unpacking and discussing because there does seem
to be this real pull between both sides of did
the victims come forward for no good reason? We know

(56:32):
for a fact that there was violence, abuse, there were guns.
This was not a sweet little love story where somebody
could very easily just walk away. And it really makes
me nervous when we discount that too quickly by just saying, oh,
they had to come in because he was paying her
rent for some weird love contract. You know, we also

(56:53):
heard from jury number two, I mean a victim number two,
Jane infamously her a pseudonym was Jane Doe. That was
one Diddy's exes, and she loved him very much, and
they played a voicemail of him basically saying to her
that they have this love contract where she would essentially
work a little bit less in her influencer job she
was a single mom, and also be available to him

(57:16):
twenty four hours a day for said freak offs or
hotel nights in exchange for her rent to be paid.
And it kind of brings up all these issues around
consent and judgment and I just want to have a
non judgment free zone here, So anyone please join the conversation,
because I do think, in hindsight, looking back at other
people's stuff, rather than just judging it, let's discuss it

(57:39):
so that we can kind of keep each other a
little bit safer. And it does but me out that
the ladies are extra tough on women. We have to
like be nicer do each other.

Speaker 5 (57:49):
It seems like we're just very judgmental.

Speaker 4 (57:51):
Mean I think that can I mean, I know that's
painting women with a broad brush. I happen to agree it's,
you know, large and largely be the case. But interestingly,
and this speaks to what you were just talking about, Stephanie.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
What this juror said, and we.

Speaker 4 (58:07):
Talked about this on the show, was that the texts
that were presented by the defense on cross examination, it
showed that there were levels of consent with Deddy's sexual encounters,
and that is worth unpacking. But that is what is
stuck in the sturer's mind. And then also, and Stephanie,
I think you're about to fly off the handle. You
don't know what I'm about to say. This alternate jur

(58:30):
George he touched on the twenty sixteen video of Cassie
being beaten by Ditty in the hallway while he held
up his towel, as you've spoken about many times, but
he confirmed it did not make a difference when considering
the charges that were brought up because Ditty was not
charged with domestic violence.

Speaker 5 (58:46):
Because he's like the biggest, right, So this is true crime.
Tonight on iHeartRadio, I am Boddy, move in and I'm
here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker, and we are
talking all things Diddy. If you have a question in
or opinion, give us a call. It eight eight eight
thirty one crime. How do you feel about this verdict?
Do you think that they overcharged him? Do you think
that they didn't prove something? Give us a call, let

(59:08):
us know, or use the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app.
I think I Yesterday we spoke with Jarrett Farantino and
he said he didn't think they explained the enterprise well,
and that's where he thinks they fell with the Rico
right right. If you are going to a trial and
you think somebody is getting charged with Rico, you're thinking

(59:30):
mob boss, you know those kinds of things. And when
they have those trials, the organization is very well laid out.
You have the dawn of the family, and you have
all the you know, underlings, the concier leone, you know,
all this. It's very well laid out. And I just
think there was a lot of ambiguity with totally there,
don't you think?

Speaker 2 (59:49):
I do? Yeah? I think they probably should have stuck
with the state charges. You know, again, in hindsight, right agree,
And I again, I could care less what anybody does
behind closed doors. Sexually speaking, I legitimately could care less
do you boo, whatever your kinks are, whatever your things are,
I legitimately have no judgment. It's really those elevator things,

(01:00:10):
or knowing full well that he's being violent against women,
and nobody seems to care whatsoever, or at least half
of his Outside the courthouse, there was like a standoff
between these groups of people that were actually driven by men,
and I was pleased to see it because it was
a it was a heated debate, but you know somewhere

(01:00:30):
saying she had it come in and this is a setup, YadA,
YadA YadA, that just because you're freaky doesn't mean you're
doing rico and that's okay, totally hear that. And then
the other is how do we prevent victims from not
wanting to come forward again, because you know, they really
are putting themselves in a dangerous situation to what end.

Speaker 5 (01:00:51):
Well, right, So now they've exposed Diddy right to you know,
all these shenanigans and put themselves at risk for nothing further,
literally nothing right because he's gotten away with it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
And like money talks, it seems like you know he
he's gotten before.

Speaker 5 (01:01:08):
If he was anybody else, I don't think he would
have had the great defense team that he had. I mean,
he had what ten lawyers?

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
That's right, That is so well said. It's such a
good point. This is such a rich person's situation, like
what about everybody else? We can't afford that level of.

Speaker 5 (01:01:22):
Legal Even Still, though, even if this was just a
normal Joe, I still don't think that they defined the
enterprise well. I think that was a massive law you
know they, I mean it just now. Granted, I think
the kidnapping and the bribery and those predicate acts were
really convincing to me, But the overall structure of you know,

(01:01:43):
Diddy at the top with his henchmen here, you know whatever,
I just don't think that was It was presented well,
and I think that was probably their downfall.

Speaker 4 (01:01:51):
And it got it did get convoluted. And again to
how this is no dig on the prosecution, but how
extraordinary the defense did only on cross examination because as
we know, they did not put forth one single witness.
But what they did do was make it incredibly confusing.
And yes, the consent on certain levels, and then jurors

(01:02:14):
have to split hairs because they did quote Cherry pick,
I think you use that phrase Stephanie, and they did
cherry pick texts between Diddy and Cassie and Jitty and
Jane of when in the moment of that text, yes,
they're all for it. Did that change after being beaten,
blackmails and everything else? Yes, but he also wasn't charged

(01:02:36):
with the beating, So what was a.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Person supposed to do? So if you're in a situation,
and again, anybody listening who finds themselves in a tough spot,
like again, we want to be able to talk about
this stuff just to make sure we're keeping each other
safer in the world. Like ladies, we got to look
out for each other a little bit. So before we
start judging everyone's worst day, let's look at it now.
And we have the benefit in true crime to look

(01:02:58):
at other people's hindsight, so we avoid it in our
own worlds. But I would when we come back, I
definitely want to talk about what we can take away
from this that's a little bit helpful as opposed to
around he is like all fighting about it and everyone's
mad about it, and it's yeah he's free and no,
you know, she had it come in and none of
that is particularly useful. I'm with you. Maybe the Rico

(01:03:20):
was an overreach, But then in hindsight, should he have
just been brought up in state charges? And I'm just
curious why he wasn't even brought up on state charges.
I'm sure that was a larger game, but it seems
like that game was never fully played.

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
No, I agree. Well, we're going to continue to have
this discussion because I want to have a little roundtable
about that. I think it would be really interesting, and
we're going to talk about who's Caitlin Harp and why
was her husband arrested? Stay right here, Tree Frime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and Radio. We're talking
true crime all the time. And look, guys, tomorrow is
July fourth. We are on the eve of the holiday.
It has been a wildly fatiguing, emotional week in all
things crime. So thank you for joining us, join the
conversation eight eight eight three to one crime. We want

(01:04:18):
to hear from you. I know you all have opinions
on how this whole week has shaken down. Did he
not going to go home on bail? He was brought
up and found guilty on two of the lesser charges. Again,
nothing to shake a stick out. It looks like he
will do some time, and obviously he has been behind
bars since September a year ago almost and then this
Brian Coburger mess. He changed his you know, vote and

(01:04:42):
his plea from not guilty to guilty in all four counts.
And the Idaho student murders. Also, our documentary on Peacock
dropped today and is streaming now. We hope you'll check
it out. The Idaho Student Murders, and also our podcast
The Idaho Massacre we did two seasons. Courtney Armst is
the voice of it and has done such extraordinary work. Body,

(01:05:04):
of course is on it, and it's just that case
that you know, body, we've all been following since day one,
so just kind of seeing it come to a head
real time has been just really emotional this week. Again,
we don't want to take anything from anybody who's related
to someone, but if you're triggered the way we have been,
I get it, totally get it. And also we're starting

(01:05:25):
a new case with this Caitlyn Harp case that Body
has been following extremely closely, and you know, body, just
give us the headline because we're going to really be
digging into this.

Speaker 5 (01:05:35):
A lot, right So Caitlyn Harp was married to Vince
and Harp, and he was arrested for her murder. She
was thirty three years old. She's in Pennsylvania. On June nineteenth,
around nine o'clock, she was last seen at her home
in Hemlock Township, Bloomsburg. By seven thirty seven, her phone
went offline with its last known signal at the house.

(01:05:57):
Her sister Heather, very close to her sister. They were
on the phone that night. Her sister Heather reported her
missing early the next day. Search efforts came in. Of course.
He said that they were at home just chilling and
she was in the shower and he saw her phone
get a snapchat message from a guy, and he asked
her about it. There was no big fight. He asked

(01:06:18):
her about it. She kind of shrugged it off. It
was no big deal. And then all of a sudden
she goes missing. Like red alert, read alert, red alert, right,
like horrible. So her sister really, her sister is remarkable.
Her sister Heather really rang the alarm bells and recognized
and remembered that Vincent, the husband, had all this old

(01:06:38):
property all over the place. Well, she alerted the authorities
that we need to check the properties. And sure enough
there was a like big tool uh, I don't know
what they're called, toolbox, kind of like the ones that
told the truck. I think, like the ones in your truck,
the long toolbox. Things real like a cliff. Yeah, it

(01:07:00):
was down a cliff on one of his former properties,
and inside that box was Caitlin.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
What.

Speaker 5 (01:07:08):
Yeah, so he was arrested. Yeah, he was arrested and
charged with criminal homicide, tampering with evidence, and abuse of
a corpse. He will be there will be a preliminary hearing.
It is scheduled for July fourteenth, so that's mid month.
It's like an eleven days. We are going to be
following it, and we're going to be telling the story
a little bit more in depth over the next couple

(01:07:29):
of weeks, so stick around for that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
But now, violence against women, Yes, that's what I was
just gonna say to me.

Speaker 5 (01:07:36):
It feels like every case that like literally every case
that we've talked about tonight, at least women. Well of
course Ethan, poor Ethan, Oh my gosh, the target was
a woman, right, we think again, there's a lovely except
of course, but you know, it's just like we are
being we are under siege. Yeah, and you know, and

(01:07:57):
then we have Diddy who has women left in right now,
no women beaten them, sex trafficked them, you know, made
them sleep with prostitutes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
I just what do we do? Do we revenge porn again?
Like now that we're hearing from this alternate or who's
basically saying like, look, the freak coughs weren't like as
insane as you know, maybe they were made out to be. Again,
that could very well be. I still don't know that
that matters to me in the slightest. It's not about
the tape. It's about that there's a sexual activity that's

(01:08:28):
being held over your head and that it's going to
be released to the press or released to the public,
or release to your mother, and her job is in
jeopardy and she's being promised her career that she's never
going to get and she can't leave because maybe she
consented along the way. But at some point, just because
you're getting something for you're getting diamonds and pearls or

(01:08:49):
whatever the stuff is that you know allegedly Cassi Ventura
his ex girlfriend got. You're not giving away your free
will forever. What do you mean, I.

Speaker 5 (01:08:58):
Don't know, and it's I've said this before, but it's
like that the frog and the pot. They don't know
they're being boiled until it's two eight. And I feel
like some of these women they're not stupid by any strength.
They're not you know, ill willed or you know, have
weak minds. These are really like successfully important, smart women.
And if they can fall to it, can I, you know,

(01:09:19):
like it, can I be manipulated to do things that
I might not normally do and I just keep pushing
the envelope a little bit more so, well said.

Speaker 4 (01:09:30):
I mean that that is the way it happens. And
I don't think any of us are immune. This is
true Crime Tonight. We're on iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney Armstrong here
with my buddy Body move In and Stephanie Leidecker. We're
talking about Diddy and the larger implications kind of what
can we learn as humans, as women. We want to

(01:09:52):
hear what you think. We're at eighty eight three to
one crime or hit up a talk back and you
will be right on the show. And speaking of talkbacks,
we have one about Ditty.

Speaker 8 (01:10:04):
I have a question after Ditty's partial conviction, how does
this case compare to Harvey Weinstein? And what does it
say whether the justice system is really changing when it
comes to holding powerful men accountable for crimes against women.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
What a good question, Such a good question. We were
just saying exactly exactly well said.

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
So similarities. I'll start with one which we have touched upon,
and that is how these defendants want to be presented
to the courtroom, and that is less powerful than they
have lived their entire lives. Harvey Weinstein rolling in in
his wheelchair ditty when the gray hair which we know

(01:10:46):
is orchestrated in the three piece orval Rudderenbacher suit, it
seems so innoc bible.

Speaker 5 (01:10:54):
A bible.

Speaker 4 (01:10:54):
Yeah, it's just, you know I said before, It's just
it's so repugnant and performative. And I think that it
also is an insight into men who are powerful and
are used to commanding the room in whatever capacity they
so choose, and as it benefits them as a defendant
in a courtroom, it is the more mild side that

(01:11:15):
they want to present. My two cents.

Speaker 5 (01:11:17):
Now, I think that's really interesting. I mean, I think
that's really interesting. I think you're pretty on point. I
personally didn't really follow Harvey Weinstein. I don't know a
lot about Hit, the allegations against him or or what
he's done, so I'm going to have to pass on
the comparisons. But I agree with Courtney from what I
do know about the case and in Harvey doing those

(01:11:38):
things because I remember thinking it reminded me of the
Golden State killer doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Yeah, and he started the me too movement, you know,
like that's what kicked off the me too movement. Because
I guess the main similarity is Harvey Weinstein was, you know,
allegedly or he's now serving time for using his you
know ability to give women jobs and you know, big
movie roles in things. So imagine Harvey Weinstein. He was

(01:12:03):
the guy. He was producing most epic movies. I was
again such a fan, and some of those movies are
are some of the best ever made. In some cases,
you suredated the nineties, he was like the nineties. Yeah, yeah,
you probably did look up to him. I mean, you're
in this business right like a studio, you know, like
you guy. Can you imagine I'm not an actress, but

(01:12:23):
you would go there and you're pitching something and he's like,
you're the one kid and oh yeah, meet me at
my hotel. People. You know, okay, it seems a little off,
but you know it's Harvey Weinstein. He's a very powerful man,
traveling to well respected world, well respected, revered. In fact,
you're not thinking you're gonna get, you know, sexually abused
the minute you walk in the door. And I guess

(01:12:44):
with Diddy as well, I think you would describe that
as so you know, well said, you know, sometimes these
kind of grooming situations, it's just like a little at
a time, little.

Speaker 5 (01:12:54):
They're gonna see, they're gonna peck and see how far
they can get exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
Oh she was okay with that. Let's try this exactly
and oh you did that, Oh surprise. I also videotaped that.
So even that one little just for the envelope, it's
just for us, and now that's being held against you
for a young person, or you know Ditty's case, the
promise of you know, a record career. Cassavan Tura was

(01:13:19):
wickedly talented. But I really remember her video. If you
guys haven't ever seen that song, what was that famous
song that she had Me and you or you and me?
Oh you and me? Good yeah. Like, if you haven't
seen that video, she was tremendous in it. And there's
also some video out there now of Diddy introducing Cassie
Venture his what would become his girlfriend, but at the

(01:13:40):
time was his new you know artist to this big
group and with the boardroom, and she was a baby
and you could see she looked like nervous and she
was coming in there excited to be Yes. This guy's like,
I love you, and now is showering her with presents
and gifts. I'm not making excuses. I'm not making excuses.
But again, I don't care what people do behind closed

(01:14:01):
doors sexually speaking, that's on them. But again, you don't
get to just beat somebody to a pulp and say yeah, yeah,
I have a text. She consented to it once. That's
the piece of it that I think. There's also some takeaway.
You don't get to hold somebody in a warehouse for
days to take a lie to dector test. That's the thing.

Speaker 5 (01:14:19):
They tell Yeah, apparently you do. Apparently you do need
to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Exactly, how are you? I'm fine. I mean people say
niceties all the time, like oh yeah, if you're loving somebody,
I'm using it now I'm going on a mixing world,
but you know, a text message that's these are the
things that are now wiping this away. And frankly, I
do think the witnesses that spoke out against Diddy are
are they're in dangerous.

Speaker 4 (01:14:43):
Way, that's right. But one thing I will say is
that Cassie Ventura did open the door for all of
this being exposed when she filed her civil lawsuit. So
there is some power to that. Do not quote me exactly,
but Jean Didty Combs is facing upwards of sixty civil

(01:15:05):
suits against him, and I really give that to Cassie
for stepping forward and you know, bringing voice to what
was going on.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Yeah, sixty lawsuits. Money talks. Listen, money talks, and maybe
that's where it hurts the most. You know, oj got
away with murder, but he still had to pay in
civil court. Doesn't totally feel it quite as satisfying. But
I just want to you know, consent is an ongoing thing.
Consenting ones does not mean a lifetime. You don't get
to hold a person hostage, that's right. And we also

(01:15:37):
have a talk back to jump to Courtney. Do you
want to read it for us?

Speaker 4 (01:15:41):
Yeah, So this talk back, and we appreciate you leaving
it very much. There was a noise transfer issue. So
but this is from a listener and it says it's
regarding the Ditty case. If the daughters truly didn't know
what their father was up to. In Ditty's case, I
would be furious if I was in that situation, and
probably wouldn't speak to him anymore, knowing that my loving

(01:16:02):
father was out doing those things rather than spending time
with me or us as a family. I'm curious to
see what happens with their relationship down the line if
they truly did not know what was going on. And
that's an excellent wood.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
I don't know woof that is incredible actually his and
by the way, his daughters, who of course are standing
by him, and you know, he has many children who
have been in court every day. It's it's just extra
special with daughters. And yeah, like he was never home
apparently because he was doing a freak offs by all accounts,
almost you know, several times a week for days on end.

(01:16:40):
So let's assume that you know they were with their
mother kim porter, but we don't really know because she's dead, right,
Where were they who were they with they were you know,
at the time, kim Porter was still alive, so we
assumed she was with mom.

Speaker 4 (01:16:53):
And the daughters are now eighteen years old, and they're told, okay.

Speaker 5 (01:16:57):
So they were young during well not young, but they
were miners doing or all this.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (01:17:01):
Well, no, that I mean it was alleged over twenty years,
beginning back in four so this is a lifetime. Oh wow,
their entire lifetime. So and it's it's a really good
it's a really good question.

Speaker 5 (01:17:15):
I wonder if they view him differently now.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
I can now that they've been watching freak off tapes
in court for you know, well over a month. Imagine
that's your dad.

Speaker 4 (01:17:24):
Well, no, I believe that only the jurors.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
Yes, they know what's going on. We've all been talking
about freakoff tapes. So you can't go to that courtroom
without avoiding some of his sexual content.

Speaker 5 (01:17:36):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
For the fact that my dad is beating people up
and there's videotape of it. So that's not really up
for debate. It's just a lot of hard content to
have any child here about their parents, whether it's true
or not. I'm not even saying it's you know, you
just should have They shouldn't be in the courtroom period
the end. In my two cents, the jury should have
been sequestered while in deliberations. At the bare minimum, the

(01:17:59):
deliberations were one. That's not a big deal.

Speaker 4 (01:18:03):
Of course that was able before they began.

Speaker 5 (01:18:06):
Sure, so I thought they were older? Am I thinking
of the boys?

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
You're thinking that he has older?

Speaker 4 (01:18:11):
I think there's six. I've lost my notes right now,
but I think there are six total.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
That's correct, that's correct. Believe he has three boys. Quincy
is alb Shore's son shared with not kim Porter, and
then he has two sons also with kim Porter who
has since passed away, and then the twins and then
another daughter with another woman.

Speaker 5 (01:18:33):
I think, you know, like, if it was my thought,
I would be very much looking at him differently, like
very much.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
So, yeah, how could you not? That's a tough one.
That's a really tough one.

Speaker 4 (01:18:45):
Comes to mind. But listen, then again, not in their family,
and who knows, and he may well treat them like gold.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
You know, yes, that's hope, well, hopefully the opportunity to.

Speaker 4 (01:19:00):
Yeah, you know, absolutely, this is how I expelt to
be treated, right like unless portrayed. Listen, and this happens
even in the most quote simple divorces. You know she's bad,
he's bad. So anyway, we never know what goes on.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
Well, we're gonna listen to be following a lot of
this on Sunday because Joseph Scott Morgan will be joining
us talking forensics all things the Idaho student murders. Please
check out the documentary. We're so grateful for a great night,
happy Fourth of July. Everybody, please say Stafe out there,
Court and anybody crazy for you both. Good night, I
got you.

Speaker 4 (01:19:35):
Good Night.

All Episodes

Alternate Juror in Diddy Trial Speaks Out — 300 Pages of Notes Later; Live in the Courtroom with Bryan Kohberger — Hardly a Blink in Sight

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Alternate Juror in Diddy Trial Speaks Out — 300 Pages of Notes Later; Live in the Courtroom with Bryan Kohberger — Hardly a Blink in Sight