Ana Walshe Murder Trial Twist, Luigi Mangione Back in Court, and a Baby-for-Sale Arrest

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Thursday, December fourth, and yes,
we have a stacked night of headlines. Day four of
the trial of accused wife killer Brian Walsh, as the
man that his now deceased wife had an affair with
actually takes the stand and we hear a phone conversation

(00:41):
or at least a voice message that Brian Walsh sends
him days after Anna's disappearance. It's harrowing. Also the Luigi
pre trial. It continues and there's new information to unpack
and advancements in DNA seves yet another cult case, this
time in Colorado. Plus a Louisiana man allegedly tried to

(01:05):
buy a woman's ten month old baby at an auction.
Have you ever, Courtney Armstrong, heard anything like that?

Speaker 3 (01:13):
One hundred percent No. And I've heard some things, and
you've heard some things.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
I know you have.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
By the way, I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong,
our beloved nugget body movin isn't feeling so hot tonight.
Your infection just not herself, so she's going to be resting.
She's so with us in spirit though as always. And Taha,
our producer, is jumping into the hot seat, and of
course we have Adam and Sam in the control room.

(01:41):
We absolutely want to hear from you eight eight eight
to three one Crime. If you want to join the
conversation live, or you can always leave us a talk pack.
Just download the iHeartRadio app in the top right hand corner.
There's this little microphone icon you push that you leave
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Or you can always hit us up on our socials

(02:03):
at True Crime Tonight show on Instagram and TikTok or
at True Crime Tonight on Facebook.

Speaker 4 (02:10):
Did I say that in reverse? Just hit us up
on our.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Socials at True Crime Tonight Somewhere I might have said
them over you know, I'm not quite sure, but either way,
we want to hear from you. That's the whole point.
And we hope you've had a great Thursday. As we
head into almost the weekend, everybody, how are we all
feeling good.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
The holidays are upon us. They are knock knock knocking
on our doors.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes, cute the Christmas music and the holiday lights. And
this weekend I'm going to get mine up.

Speaker 5 (02:43):
Oh are you you're going to put the lights up?

Speaker 4 (02:45):
I am, I am? I am all by myself.

Speaker 5 (02:48):
I love that. That's nice.

Speaker 6 (02:50):
That's one of that's my favorite part of Christmas is
to see the lights when I'm driving around. But the
shopping and the wrapping of gifts and everything else I'm
not looking forward to.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
But okay, you know, I think we have to all
rain the shopping in.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
I think it's a really appropriate thing to say to
your loved ones and friends. Hey, how don't we give
each other the gift of not giving a gift this year?
You know, just you know, let's exchange love and blessings
and like, quit it with all the buying and the
wrapping and the stress of that. Sometimes that does kind
of take the fun out of it. Kids excluded, right,
But for just us regular humans that are adults, do

(03:25):
we really need that many things under a tree or
you know, whether it's whatever you celebrate, whether it's Hanako
or whatever the thing is, it is a lot of pressure,
and man is it expensive.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Honestly, that's what I've done with my family for years.
I have not bought my sister a Christmas present in
more than twenty years. And then it's exactly we gave
each other the gift of not sending the same bath
and body works basket back and forth across the country
to each other. And it's like, you know what, take
me off your list? Merry Christmas? Yeah, period, itsful. Yeah,

(04:01):
it's like true friendship in love. Honestly, it takes an
edge off.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
One of my older brothers and I we used to
return the same sweatshirts. He would get it for a year,
and then we gifted back to each other since we
used to always hide over it. But yeah, I'm with
you on that. By the way, I think that same
rule should apply to thank you notes. Handwritten thank you notes.
Sometimes those can stack up and I know they're really
important and they're so wonderful to get and they're so

(04:27):
wonderful to give.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
But if you're really tight.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
With somebody, you don't even need to send me a
thank you, not just tell me that you love it
when I tacked when I talk to you stresslessly. So
no gifts, No, no Christmas cards, nothing that brings on
extra stress.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
The world is stressful enough anyway.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
So speaking of stressful enough, let's jump into some some
crime stories of the day. Brian Walsh kind of doing
all kinds of things in court today.

Speaker 4 (04:54):
What a day? What a day in court? What a day?

Speaker 3 (04:59):
So today, ind was day four in the trial of
the alleged Massachusetts wife killer Brian Walsh. And on the
stand today was the man whom the victim on A
Walsh was having an affair with.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
So he took the stand. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
So, accused killer Brian Walsh is on trial for first
degree murder of his wife on A Walsh. She disappeared
on January first, back in twenty twenty three, and Brian
Walsh has pleaded guilty to dismembering her body as well
as misleading police, but he does maintain his innocence in

(05:39):
actually killing her. He claims that he came upon his
wife's deceased body and in a panic and in desperation
to save his three young children that he shared with
the now deceased Hona, that the best course of action
was to dismember her.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
Body and light of the police sense absolutely crazy.

Speaker 6 (06:03):
It is something about this case that I find more
fascinating than any of the ones we've been covering lately.

Speaker 5 (06:09):
I don't know what it is. I can't pinpoint, but
I cannot. It's so busy.

Speaker 6 (06:14):
Maybe it could because it's such a bizarre excuse that
I can't get past it.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
And I also think it's because a it's so grisly.
And then we see Ryan Walsh in the courtroom, and
if you've seen any of the footage or the video,
you know there doesn't seem to be any shame in
this man's game. He is not crying, he is not emotional,
and essentially, let's just revisit why the stakes are so
high if he had confessed to murdering his wife Anna,

(06:44):
Remember he says he did not, in that she was
already dead and it was, you know, an unexpected death,
and therefore he panicked. But even with that, after you
dismember a body, you would think there would be some
some some awesome, some pain. You watch him in court

(07:04):
and it looks like he's going to the DMV.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
It does not seem like this man is stressed at all.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
And again, when you go to trial, a lot of
this dirty laundry comes up so yes.

Speaker 4 (07:15):
Today.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
For example, Anna the deceased, the victim whose body we
do not have yet her, you know, the man that
she had been spending time with, having a relationship with,
took the stand and was taking the stand in front
of Anna's accused husband. Imagine the tension in this room.

(07:36):
And on the one hand, there's part to me that
hate it because it's just we don't want a victim
shame Anna. Obviously she was in a very difficult relationship.
The man decided to dismember her by his own admission,
So we're not dealing with somebody who's emotionally air quotes normal, right,
like we can assume that. So she may have been
living with a monster for a really long time. Other

(07:59):
exact di starbating events is that he Brian Walsh, the accused,
was also looking at prison time for fraudulent art dealings,
like we talked about last night. He had been saying
that he was he was basically selling fraud art, but
like for really famous artists, who was the artist Andy Warhol?

(08:19):
I mean, come on, So he was looking at jail time,
which of course was going to be a very vulnerable
thing for his family, His wife and his children, Anna
being the deceased, and you know she was going to
have to get left with this mess. So yeah, maybe
she met somebody else and was finding some compassion and
some love in another and maybe that you know, added

(08:43):
to this. Apparently they were together over Christmas. This came
out on the stand today and what was very interesting
I thought in court, jump in if you disagree. Basically,
they played a voicemail. It was about four days a
voicemail that basically the cues Brian Walsh left on Anna's

(09:04):
boyfriend's voicemail. You follow and he's the one that was
on the stand, and basically it was the husband saying, oh,
I'm kind of looking for my wife. It's been four
days she went missing. So we hear the voicemail and
it's the acute. Now we know now that he has
since admitted prior to this, to dismembering her and disposing

(09:26):
of her body parts throughout his area in Massachusetts, including
in a dumpster near his mother's house.

Speaker 4 (09:33):
We know this to be true.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
So yet he has the calm and cool demeanor of
a cucumber calling his now deceased wife. Only he knows
it at this point though, as if he's looking for her.
He's concerned and doesn't know where she's at. She's missing,
so he calls and leaves a message on the boyfriend's
the man that she is having an affair with ye

(09:57):
on his voicemail and it is like he is leaving
a voicemail to get his windows cleaned.

Speaker 5 (10:02):
Hi.

Speaker 4 (10:02):
There, I hope you're well.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
This is Brian Walsh, just looking to see if you've
seen Anna anywhere. I'm sure it's fine, but you know
she I haven't heard from her for a bit. If
maybe you've heard from her, or if somebody you know
has heard from her, it is if he is just.

Speaker 4 (10:18):
Calling in an errand it's not.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
There's no panic emotion, and again he's playing it very cool.
But knowing what we know and what he did to
her remains is harrowing. When you hear that voicemail court,
do you agree absolutely?

Speaker 3 (10:38):
I mean, just the capacity to maintain that much control
over your emotions, or to show no emotions, or perhaps
he had no emotions. We don't know what was in
this man's mind or heart. By the way, if we're
just joining us, we're talking about day four in the
trial of accused wife killer Brian Walsh and his deceased

(11:00):
wife Anna. But yeah, it's unbelievable from start to finish.
But here here's a couple of the other details that
came out.

Speaker 5 (11:10):
Please.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
So when William Fastau, who was having an affair with
the victim, Anna Walsh, he took the stand and he
maintained that they had an intimate relationship. This, of course
was prior to her disappearance back January first, twenty twenty three.
So Fastau had actually helped the victim, Anna Walsh find
housing in Washington, d C. Where she commuted for work.

(11:35):
So keep in mind the primary residence is Massachusetts, and
because of accused killer Brian Walsh's problems with trying to
falsify art and sell it, he had to remain in
his mass Cohasset, Massachusetts house with the children because his

(11:55):
federal home confinement required him to be the primary caretaker.
So that is what's set up the situation for the victim,
Anna to be traveling from Massachusetts all the way down
to d C for work all the time.

Speaker 5 (12:10):
That makes sense.

Speaker 6 (12:10):
If he wasn't involved in the shadiness, maybe he would
they would have lived in it.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
They could have, you know, And by the way the
boyfriend did stay on the stand that you know, they
were very close, They shared very intimate conversations. And one
of the things that was bringing her a lot of
stress is how trapped she felt because she couldn't bring
her family or boys, her kids to Washington.

Speaker 4 (12:32):
D c.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Where her job was, where maybe she had more of
a support system. Maybe she could get away from him,
but she couldn't because there was a financial links between them,
and also he was sort of landlocked to Massachusetts because
of his criminal activity. So here's this young, thirty nine
year old young mother whose family lives in a different country,

(12:53):
and she wants to protect her kids, she wants to
keep her career, she wants to keep life moving. Maybe
she had even met somebody that actually cares about her. Meanwhile,
she's like living with a monster in Massachusetts. What a
tough spot. These last days must have been horrible.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
And even much more than the last days for a
time leading up to it. So victim Anah Walsh and
the man she had the affair with, William Fastau. Both
of them had children and they were bonding over parenting
struggles and they also had shared interests.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
We're developing obviously relationship.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
So Anna Walsh apparently had stayed overnight at William Fastau's house,
but never had William Fastau stayed at her Washington townhost townhouse.
And then also fast out testified that Anna Walsh had
wanted accused victor accused killer Brian Walsh to find out

(13:52):
about the affair from her.

Speaker 4 (13:54):
So that was a point that he made clear.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
And the two of them, again, they were very close
the Victimnah Walsh before her tragic death. She and William
Fastell went to Dublin, Ireland for Thanksgiving in the months
before her murder. They also spent Christmas Eve together down
in Washington, and allegedly he testified that the accused killer,

(14:20):
Brian Walsh, was really upset when Anna's flight was delayed
and ultimately Anna ended up driving all the way from
Washington to Coohasset.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
So this now is only one week before her death.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
I was going to say her disappearance, and look, we're
seeing a life that's falling apart at the seams, right.
So Anna's commuting from one stay to another, trying to
keep it together. She's clearly met somebody else trying to
keep it together. She also has this husband who she's
attached to, who's now going to do real time for
things that are putting her in a financially vulnerable spot.

(14:54):
She wants to tell the husband about this relationship that
she's having. Says though Brian Walsh, the accused who's now
being accused of potentially murdering her, that he had no idea.
He didn't know about this relationship. This is news to him.
So that's where it gets a little, he said, she said,

(15:14):
But you could imagine how emotional and how high the
tension was in the courtroom today when these two men
are essentially seeing each other for the very first time.
And honestly, like I think was thank god. Anna was
like she was so close to being out of this.
She was like trying to rebuild a life for herself

(15:35):
in Washington, DC, and this guy with double insurance policies
on her made that impossible to happen.

Speaker 4 (15:42):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
Well, we will of course keep you updated as this
trial continues, and after the break, there's a twist in
the Luigiman Gianne case, and we're also going to cover
disturbing online network that more through Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong. Our body move in is just not feeling
that hot tonight, so we are sending her all our
good vibes so that she will rest up over the weekend.
But Taha is jumping into the hot seat, and of
course we have Sam and Adam in the control room.

(16:29):
Please jump in join the combo eight eight eight three
to one Crime. We've been talking a lot about Brian Walsh,
the accused wife killer, and also this trial for Luigi Mangione.
Now remember it's a pre trial, so we have been
following this this you know today they were back in court.
You know, we're seeing new information. It's essentially a big

(16:53):
deal for two reasons. One, basically, the defense is saying, look, yes,
this guy, our client had a backpack with him when
he was apprehended in the McDonald's in Altaduna, Pennsylvania. If
you remember, he was sitting in the room and he
had his little hat on and was eating a hash
brown by himself in the corner at this local McDonald's.

(17:18):
One of the employees of that McDonald's basically spots him
because some customers had said, it looks like the guy
in New York that was the active shooter who who
shot and killed the CEO insurance man. And I know
there's a worldwide search for him, a manhunt, if you will.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
We should call authorities.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
So they played that nine to one to one call today,
which is really again shocking and scary to hear. It's
a reminder that the officers that showed up on the
scene really were putting their lives on the line and
what could have been a very very dangerous situation. He
did in fact have a gun on him. But what's
up for conversation is his Miranda rights. So you know,

(18:02):
we've seen this on law and order. You have the
right to remain you know, get we have the right room.
Do you have the right to remain silent?

Speaker 3 (18:09):
You know?

Speaker 4 (18:10):
And so on. Those are the miranda rights.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
As exactly, anything you say, Kenan will be used against you.
I won't bore you with them, but you get the idea.

Speaker 7 (18:19):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
So they were about nineteen minutes or so between the
time that officers showed up at the McDonald's until they
actually read those miranda rights. It's not as though they
were not read. But according to the police officers that
again are in state jurisdiction. At this point, these police
officers are saying, like, look, we got a phone call
for some random person at a McDonald's saying that we

(18:41):
think we have the New York shooter here. They didn't
think it was true, you know, the guy, even the
police officer said himself yesterday like, well, I actually didn't
think it was true at all, But we just were
going to do I didn't even put my sirens on.
I just went to do sort of like a wellness
check at this McDonald's basically, And yeah, they had to
feel it out a little bit. And you know, essentially

(19:01):
they did in fact go through his backpack without reading
the Miranda rights first, which I think is the big
point of contention. Of course, as we know in that backpack,
his manifesto, the three D printed gun, the ghost gun
that was used allegedly in this murder, and so on.

(19:23):
I mean, I'm honestly, the idea that those things would
not be allowed to be used in court when his
actual trial with jurors happens is beyond scary and shocking.
So again, no one's saying now Luigi is saying he
didn't do it and he's innocent. I don't know what
the alternate theory is here, but as Courtney reminds me daily,

(19:43):
it's not his job to provide an alternate theory.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
His job is to say.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
It wasn't me and to secure reasonable doubt. And I
guess he has very fancy lawyers because that's the plan
right now, and it seems to be going slightly well,
dare I It seems impossible that jurors can unhear, or
just the general public can unhear the fact that there
was a gun and a manifesto. But if that's tossed out,

(20:11):
is it possible that a juror can actually be placed
you know, twelve people, twelve people plus I should say,
you know, being seated in a juror that don't know
anything about Luigi seems hard and far fetched.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
Well, I mean, in this situation that you laid out,
that would be I mean, an unbelievable leg up for
the defense if he's because then again you have you
just took away the weapon and the motive, right, and
so that leaves the footage of someone who has two

(20:46):
eyebrows most of us do, you know, so you could
poke a lot of holes in that if you're the defense.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
By the way, one thing that came up today in
the courtroom that I was shocked by.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
You know, we had heard again what was in his
and how it was not secured enough and the miranda rights. Okay,
putting that aside, one detail that I had not heard
before was that he had around his neck a little
what's it called, you know, a USB, a USB which
implies what Courtney Armstrong.

Speaker 4 (21:17):
So it's it's a little it's a little USB drive.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
So it's one of those things that you plug into
your computer that contains whatever information is on it, whether
it's documents, family photos, you know, really anything. And it's
interesting because again that had never come to bear, so
we don't yet know what is on there, but it
must be important enough for him that it was a

(21:43):
necklace containing this USB drive.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
What could possibly be on that USB drive? Think about it.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
This guy planned to allegedly, allegedly, allegedly go to New
York City.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
He was not living there.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
He traveled to New York City knowing that there was
sort of an event for you know, this healthcare company
this you know, and that this particular CEO would be
at said event and Luigi allegedly had it in his mind,
this is the you know, the shooter, that he was
going to make a statement by killing him in cold

(22:17):
blood in midtown Manhattan. It was exactly one year ago.
I can so clearly remember exactly where I was sitting,
what I was doing, Courtney. I think you and I
were on the phone real time, jumping into the rabbit hole.
Also to think that here we are one year later
and he has such a fan base, like groupies that

(22:41):
are literally outside of the courthouse wearing you know, beauty
contest sashes, you know, pray to Luigi.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
That's Easy's unbelievable to me. I can't believe it.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Number one and number two, that he might get by
on some crazy technicality like this when the state officials
were doing the best they could to secure a situation,
to make sure that the McDonald's patrons and employees were
not in harmed way, I don't know what else they
could have done.

Speaker 5 (23:11):
Think about it.

Speaker 6 (23:12):
I was telling to ask you, do you think all
of these fans are is it? Are there more fans
because of his message, the fight against healthcare or just
because he's a strikingly attractive person.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
One hundred percent not because of the healthcare I will
say one. I would say zero point nine percent of
his fans are simply because they find him handsome.

Speaker 4 (23:34):
I disagree. I think it's a combo.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
I think if he didn't look like he did, which
is conventionally, you know, a handsome, young, athletic guy, If
he didn't look like that, would there be so many fans?

Speaker 4 (23:47):
Would they be so rabid?

Speaker 3 (23:49):
No? However, I do think that in the climate of
how many people care about or feel about healthcare in
general as a system, that there still would be people
seeing this guy as a vigilante.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
As a vigilante that has done absolutely nothing. Again, talk
about a note not taken. Has anybody seen anything positive
come out of your healthcare plan? Have your deductibles been
reduced in any way, shape or form. Has there been
a meaningful conversation perhaps about healthcare in this country because vigilante,
allegedly Luigi Mangione took a stand and killed a man

(24:29):
who has a family.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yeah, No, I mean entirely misguided, and you know people
do forget that. As you said, CEO Brian Thompson, he
was walking in midtown Manhattan on his way to this
large conference doing his job, living his life with a
family and children at home.

Speaker 6 (24:49):
And children that won't have a dad and so yeah,
I mean, yeah, that's the part.

Speaker 5 (24:54):
That's still hard before Christmas.

Speaker 8 (24:56):
Yeah, so well, if you want to weigh in, we're
talking about Luigi man Geo and what's going on in
his pre trial trial and what evidence can be used.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
So give us a call.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
We're at eighty day three one crime or leave us
a talk back, and in fact, let's go to one now.

Speaker 9 (25:17):
Hello, girlies, this is Ava from LA. I was just
listening to last night's episodes with jaredt about Luigi case.
What if juror members aren't truthful? How do they know
if they know more information about the case, Like what
couldn't someone lie because they want to get him off?
I'm just very curious, like, how can we take people's
word for it?

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Have you ever seen a scripted show The Juror, which
I thought, you know, I'm not going to say the
word diddy, but I'm dying to talk to you guys
next week about the documentary. But again, yeah, so exactly
to your point in La, Yeah, well, how do you
know that somebody is not being planted in the jury pool?

(26:00):
I know, that somebody is just like, yeah, it's super
fan that just wants to be in the mix on
a high profile case, and they lie through their teeth.

Speaker 4 (26:08):
I mean, you don't you don't know.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
You people have to be taken out their word. That said,
particularly in high profile cases, not only are there you know,
very well versed attorneys, and particularly because federally, I'm fairly
certain that death penalty is still on the table if
I'm not mistaken, so.

Speaker 4 (26:31):
That federally it is.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
But I think that's the things that they're itching at
getting off the table at some point before it actually
goes to trial. So in this pre trial event, which
is what we're seeing, you know, they're they're likely going
to have about thirty witnesses in total. Think about that
thirty witnesses at a pre trial.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
We saw this a little bit.

Speaker 5 (26:52):
In the O. J.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
Simpson case.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Not to harken back obviously OJ Simpson infamously getting off
for the alleged murder of his then ex wife, Nicole Brown.
But what's uniquely similar from that case to this one
is the amount of evidence in the OJ case that
the jurors who were sequestered.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
Did not have the benefit of seeing.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
There was blood evidence, there was, there was some real
stuff that Absent that information, jurors were a little bit
in a vacuum. You know, even the general public in
the media was sharing information that the jurors, because they
were sequestered, didn't know. And you know, some say that's
why OJ ultimately got off.

Speaker 4 (27:34):
We'll never know.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Now, fast forward to modern times, we're in Luigi Land,
and the idea that certain key pieces of information like
motive and the weapon could be removed from the jurors perview,
that's pretty shocking. And yeah, it's pretty hard to convict
a man on a death penalty charge when you don't

(27:56):
have the weapon and you don't have a motive.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
Absolutely, but I just I wanted to finish my thought
on to answer the talkback. Is just with this high
profile case, there are going to be really seasoned attorneys
who have been are used to doing Voader over and
over and looking and asking questions. And in addition to
attorneys on both sides, very likely there will be juror

(28:23):
consultants as well.

Speaker 4 (28:25):
Guaranteed they'll be duror consultants.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
So there's ways to mitigate the risk and to try
and see through if someone does try and lie, but
otherwise you can't.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
And just in case you're not sure, what are juror
consultant days is, It's actually exactly what it sounds like.
It's somebody who's hired to be present for jury selection
on either the defensive side or the prosecutor side, and
they are looking for micro expressions. They can read people's
body language, how they're answering. Do they seem as that

(28:56):
they're actually asking things or answering in a truth manner?
Are they masking other things? And sometimes they do a
deep dive even into their personal backgrounds, et cetera, to
see if they would be influenced in a certain way
to make a certain decision when it comes to voting
in the end.

Speaker 5 (29:16):
Oh, that's interesting, I didn't I guess.

Speaker 4 (29:18):
Yeah, it's a real job. It's a very sophisticated day. Sure, yeah,
it's an expense.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
I think it's somebody who's paid a lot of money
to be able to Sometimes they have like XCIA agents
or people who were used to studying actual body language
and what person is Ooh, I'm not sure they're being
super truthful about their background. Maybe they had some layer
of abuse or maybe they suffered from poverty because their

(29:48):
parent was sick. If you're on the defensive side, you
want somebody in your jury pool that had a bad
issue or was affected in some way negatively by the
insurance companies. That's what you're looking for, right, and the
prosecutors are looking for somebody who's quite the opposite. So
it's a real, real orchestra to you know somebody's conducting

(30:11):
that orchestra, which is essentially called jury selection.

Speaker 5 (30:14):
That's fascinating. I did not that's well.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
And it's like yesterday when Jarrett Farentino, our expert legal prosecutor,
he said, you know, you don't just need to You
can know the law, but it's better to.

Speaker 4 (30:28):
Know the judge who's his joke, and more so to
know the jury.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
And know the lay of the land of whom you're
speaking about.

Speaker 4 (30:36):
It's all important.

Speaker 3 (30:38):
One last thing I thought was interesting that came out
today was when it came time for Qus killer man
Gione to give his home address just to identify himself
in this McDonald's in Pennsylvania. He gave his mother's Maryland address,
which would have been his childhood home. And it just
makes me think that some time we should do a

(30:59):
lay the land of what man geone was up to
in the months and years preceding this, just as a
refresher since it's been today.

Speaker 5 (31:08):
I'd love that. Okay, yeah, we will.

Speaker 6 (31:11):
It's a little complicated, it is, and even I think
didn't even have a bus ticket from Philly to like
just I want to understand exactly all the various locations
and where he was.

Speaker 5 (31:20):
So yeah, we'll lay something out and put it together
because I like that.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
And yes, a Greyhound ticket was involved, and we will
follow that up at another time.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
But listen, and we want to hear from you, so
send us your talkbacks. In fact, we'll go to one
right now.

Speaker 9 (31:34):
Hey, y'all, I am way behind. I'm listening.

Speaker 10 (31:37):
I'm still on the episode of Luigian Court in your
discussion about the Didty Dog, which I'm dying to see
and I cannot wait.

Speaker 7 (31:44):
Oh my goodness, it's going to be amazing.

Speaker 10 (31:46):
But when you were talking about phrases that you all say,
like little bit, which I love, my favorite saying that
you say, and please don't think that I am judging
because I love it so much. Is by the way, Okay,
period is the end.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
I know.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
The problem is once I hear it, i'd ever say
it again because I get so self conscious.

Speaker 6 (32:08):
But it's just wait, is she saying by the way
that we say by the way.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
I think we do say by the way a lot.
I think we picked it up from each other. And
I don't know who's the who is ground zero on
the by the ways, but we're by the ways for sure.
Joseph Scott Morgan and I say to each other by
the bye. It's a very thing, but we say and
by the way a lot.

Speaker 4 (32:33):
I love it.

Speaker 11 (32:36):
If you hear Stephanie or anyone jumping in with by
the way, I feel like that usually means you're on fire,
and like there's yeah, you're about to do my job
after that.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
Although curious, you know who is the sore of the
by the way since you listen, or are we all equals?

Speaker 5 (32:52):
Who started it?

Speaker 11 (32:53):
I feel like, uh, that feels like a Stephanie is
to me?

Speaker 3 (32:58):
And by the way, yes, yes, it's yes.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Over get contagiously, Well, it's contagious. We all sort of
pick up each other's sayings each time. So that's a
very sweet comment. Thank you for listening, Thank you for sharing.
I cannot wait to discuss the didy do with you,
So you better call in next week because I'm waiting
for these guys. I mean, can you talk about in

(33:24):
the studio here? I can't get anybody to watch. Everyone's
doing it in small doses.

Speaker 6 (33:29):
Yeah, it's We've been chatting a little bit about it.
I don't want to go into it too much, but
it's it's very well done. It's stylized, and I think
it's for me. It's the music. I'm like, oh so
good a doc with music that I can actually sing
along and tap my toes to, as opposed to some
like harmonica or something playing.

Speaker 5 (33:46):
But this is really like.

Speaker 6 (33:48):
It's it's it's good and it's shot well, and I
just can't get past even the beginning, like how, how
and why would you allow people to film you at
this horrible, vulnerable moment in life.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
It's fantastically wonderful to me everything about us that you
are sitting there saying we need someone who deals with
the dirtiest of the dirtiest of the dirt talking about
himself to his lawyer with a camera that he asked
to be there, and his son's sitting there right there.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Too, And this is not somebody who's trying to put
his best foot forward in front of his family.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
He's in New York City.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
He's obviously about to you know, him saying I'm waiting
for the shoe to drop. If ever there was a
statement out loud, I just I can't wait to discuss it.
I think when I say this rarely because sometimes I
think and listen. I make documentaries, so I say this
with true love. Sometimes they can be a little boring.
Sometimes it can be a little heavy handed of an opinion,

(34:46):
like you can kind of see like the point that
is trying to be proven, and I think the goal
is to remain as indifferent as possible or as neutral
I should say, not indifferent and neutral as possible, right,
show all sides. We take that so seriously. So of course,
when Fitty Sens was like, I have a dog and
we know there's beef between, you know, the two, I

(35:08):
assumed it would be a little heavy handed in terms
of it being sort of a sleigh piece, which it is.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
But I think it's excellent.

Speaker 6 (35:18):
Yeah, the array of characters, like I mean from his
childhood to people in the music industry to jurors like
it's they picked some good people to interview, so it works.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
And solid, solid people, people with real and intimate knowledge. Because, yes,
if it was going to be sort of an over
the top, you know, slam piece, it.

Speaker 4 (35:40):
Could have been.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
You could have lined the streets with people who wanted
to sit there and ramp against city. But it seemed
like everybody who was speaking was sort of dealing with
their own confused, complicated, rather emotions.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, and it really wasn't until years later that anybody
has the confidence to really talk about it. Aubry O Day,
for example, Capricorn Clark, who we've talked about so much
when she was taking the witness stand at the time.
There actually are jurors who give their perspective.

Speaker 4 (36:10):
One of them, I think, speaks.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
So clearly about their lack of understanding of what the
cycle of trauma and abuse actually is.

Speaker 4 (36:19):
It does some really elegant things. I think it ti.
I think it really shows grooming.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
I really think it shows how celebrity and power can
suck a person in, a regular like you know, pedestrian
person like myself.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
You could get sucked in, so.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
You know you're in over your head and you're like, well,
I can't get out of this. I'm too deep. Who's
gonna believe me. By the way the answers nobody. That
is very true. And I can't wait till you get
to the Biggie funeral.

Speaker 4 (36:47):
I there's so many things that we have to discuss.
I won't talk about.

Speaker 5 (36:50):
It any longer. We'll go too far.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
But it's on if you have no it's on Netflix,
I should say. Apparently Fitty is already doing a second
documentary to Wow.

Speaker 6 (37:01):
Well, yeah, it's it's there's a lot of talk about
it everyone on social media, so it's huge.

Speaker 5 (37:05):
It's it's a big one. So we'll keep following up
on that one.

Speaker 4 (37:10):
But oh yeah, did please? Yeah, one last scuttle.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
But what I thought was interesting because you know, we've
been talking about this documentary for a really long time
that we knew it was getting made.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
Others were getting made.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
I know Peacock did one as well, but this ditty
one everybody was secretly waiting for, and it seemed like
it wasn't going to happen, and it certainly wasn't going
to happen before the trial happened, and some were like, well,
I guess it's not going to be that good, because
if it was really good, they would have put it
out before the trial actually happened or during the trial.
But you know what, I think it's so smart and

(37:42):
elegant that they didn't. They waited until Diddy got his sentencing.
Let the court of law do its thing, let justice
take its role, and here you go, here's a little
bit of background.

Speaker 5 (37:56):
But do you also think it's.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
A little illegal, reason like, well, yeah, because you don't
want to affect a jury pool, by the way, you don't,
you know, that's something that we take very seriously as well.
The idea is not to influence a jury pool. That
could be very dangerous. That also could make certain key
and pieces of information that you're covering in your documentary.
It could like cause a problem where the defense or

(38:18):
the prosecution could say, we have to eliminate stuff from
the you know, the trial because it was discussed in
this documentary. It could tamper, which is like the worst
and the last thing you would want to do as
a documentarian. So that's why legal you know, things that
are like the dateline leak and the Brian Coburger case
for example, some of that stuff was really a big
deal because it was going to affect a jury pool

(38:40):
who couldn't unsee what has now been released publicly very
important in this case. I think they waited for the
perfect amount of time, just when the dust settled a
little bit.

Speaker 4 (38:50):
Did He's like.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Now in his for you know, forever home for the
next fifty months. All it will say for me personally
is because I was a big Diddy fan, I really
jumped into the jail point.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
I remember it real time. I loved him on stage
with Sting. Now I feel so nob you can't. But
all that to be said, it.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Just shows that the public persda could be very different
from what is happening behind the scenes.

Speaker 4 (39:15):
And enough is enough. Fifty months seems like a cake walk.

Speaker 6 (39:19):
Well, I, like I said, I'm going to be watching
it and we'll discuss it. And if you are watching it,
leave us a talk back and tell us what you
think about it, because we're going to be digging into this,
I feel like for the next couple of weeks because
we can't seem to shake it. But right now we're
digging into all of our fun talk back. So, Adam,
do you have another one for us to get too?

Speaker 12 (39:42):
Hi to Cromp tonight, this is Riley. I am calling
in about the missing football coach from Virginia. So I
only live about an hour and a half from Big
Stone Gap, And as you can imagine, this is just
all the talk of our small.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
Town right now.

Speaker 13 (39:55):
Crazy enough, my uncle actually went to high school with
the missing football coach and it's just really hit home
for him and a lot of people. Just a horrible
tale and I'm really interested to see what happens. Have
a good night, guy.

Speaker 6 (40:09):
Oh, other people who don't know.

Speaker 5 (40:14):
Riley was our intern who worked with us, and she is.

Speaker 6 (40:19):
She's such a She was such a joy and just
as sharp as attack like. She was so smart. She
would geld you know, she did everything so quickly. And
she's still yeah, she still is. But miss working with her.
But how horrible that that's happening right where she lives.
And I can imagine because I think they said it
was like a small area, like only like five thousand people,
So I'm sure everybody in some way is probably connected

(40:43):
with this man.

Speaker 5 (40:44):
And it's the dark shadow over that area. Must be
horrendous right now.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Absolutely, And if people are not familiar with this case,
Travis Turner, he's a high school football coach who's gone
missing and his family in a very small town in
Virginia is urging him to come home. But for him
to come home, he's going to have to face child
pornography charges as well as charges of trying to illicit communication.

Speaker 4 (41:14):
What's the phrase I'm looking for.

Speaker 5 (41:17):
It's basically solicitation.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
Solicitation, that's right.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
So, according to the Travis Turner family's attorney, Adrian Collins,
they are cooperating with law enforcement completely. Multiple searches of
their properties have been allowed and undertaken, and the forty
six year old high school football coach was last seen
walking into woods nearby his house.

Speaker 4 (41:43):
He was carrying a gun.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
However, he left behind his keys, his car, his wallet,
his glasses, hash essential medications, so you don't leave all
those things back home easily. So there's immediate concern for
his safety. The marshals are continuing their search and he

(42:08):
is a fugitive and again considered armed.

Speaker 5 (42:12):
Som wow, that's yeah.

Speaker 6 (42:15):
I don't I don't see this ending in any other
way but him not being alive, but that's just I
don't know, Maybe that's an awful thing.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
He has no medication and went out in a.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
Sweatsuit, So yeah, unless someone and there's been online chatter,
which is nothing more, nothing less than online chatter that
you know, unless unless someone has is helping Travis Turner,
and the allegations are potentially there's someone is helping him,

(42:49):
but without all the things that I just listed.

Speaker 5 (42:53):
And without the medication, without.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
The medication, you know, unless it couldn't have been really
pre planned. Travis Turner went missing back on the twentieth
of November, right before police were coming to interview him,
not to arrest him or even press charges for the
child pornography, but to speak with him. He appeared to

(43:15):
have been tipped off in some capacity and again then
just walked out with nothing but a gun into the woods.
So they never actually spoke to him, that is my understanding. Yeah,
that's what's being reported. They did not. They were I
don't know that they were necessarily like speeding down the
road on their way, but they were slated. Officers are

(43:35):
slated to be at his house on the twentieth, and
Travis Turner was gone, and there hasn't been.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Any real indication of who the miner was that's being
associated with these allegations. You know, the ideas that he
had child pornography on his laptop or on his computer.
There was multiple charges of that, and that there was
some sort of an inappropriate relationship with a with a minor.

(44:04):
We don't know if that was a student or somebody
who knew locally, or you know, God forbid, a family member.
But what an upset and what a fall from grace.
It's just again an amazing thing that somebody can be
forward facing in such a positive way and at the
same time be up to something so terrible.

Speaker 5 (44:23):
Yeah, and I just all I think about is that
chilled the.

Speaker 6 (44:27):
Family and his children, and yeah, that's it's a heartbreaking,
but well we'll keep following that one.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
And at the holidays, you know, there just must be
so upside down in that household. And his wife was
really urging for him to return home and that they
loved him, and she has, you know, been very clear
that she does not believe any of these allegations to
be true.

Speaker 4 (44:49):
And perhaps she's right.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
Yeah, correct, I mean, there's yeah, they're they're allegations. And
you're also correct that neither police nor school officials have
disclosed any information whether any of the alleged victims are
connected with Union High School, where Travis Turner both coached
and was a gym teacher.

Speaker 4 (45:11):
M wow, wow, I like the talkback to keep something.
He's coming. And again we actually have.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
Damon Epps too, who's going to be sharing some wacky
news with us, some wacky criminal news.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
So we'll be in the next hour.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
As at times sometimes a criminal thinks they are so smart,
but they're really not shocking.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
Hashtag so surprised, so we'll be.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
We'll be hearing some more off the beat crimes as well,
and also about this DNA that has solved yet another
cold case in Colorado this time.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
Yeah uh and in non crime news. Since I had
we only have a couple of seconds left. I had
never heard the word scuttle butt. When you guys started
using it, I found it so charming and I looked
it up. Does anyone in the universe care?

Speaker 5 (46:05):
Where I look it up?

Speaker 4 (46:07):
It is okay, it's a body word. I love it.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
It's about I do too, And basically it was, Yeah,
it's an old timey water cooler. Basically, if you were
on a ship and working, it would be the scuttle
butt was the thing everyone literally went to have their
water water.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
So, yeah, cooler chat exactly.

Speaker 5 (46:27):
Like I guess old time boats.

Speaker 6 (46:30):
Yes, just like the sailors would sit around the scuttle button,
drink the water and got it.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
Yeah, so was there what anyway? So that's the scuttle
butt on that.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
All right, Well listen, we're going to be scuttle button
more in the next hour, so make sure you stay
with us.

Speaker 4 (46:41):
We have this and much much more, lots of crime
to discuss. Stay with us.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Welcome back to your crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong and Taha. How's our producer who's jumping into
the hot seat because our body is not feeling too
well tonight, So body feel better and we will try
to hold down the.

Speaker 4 (47:14):
Fort without you.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
We are we were I was going to say, we
were going to talk about the forensics about Luigi Mangione's
ghost gun and sort of some of the casings and
things involved with you know, tracing some of the evidence
attached to a three D gun is so interesting, So
we were planning on doing that tonight, and then Body
had done so much research and she made an Excel

(47:37):
doc and when we found out she wasn't feeling well,
her first reaction was, oh, no, no, So we're not
going to cover it tonight. It felt as though that
was just straight mean. So we're going to push that
to next week and we'll cover it maybe on Monday
or Tuesday, so that body will be all rested and
back with us. So in the meantime, there's plenty of
other things to get to. By the way, if you've

(47:58):
missed any of the show, please do not stress. You
could always catch us after as a podcast, so you
could play all the catchup you want, and you can
always leave us a talkback or hit us up on
our socials. Courtney, you have been in a world of
in cells. We've been in the world of dark webbing
for a while now, and if you haven't listened to
the in Cell's podcast, please do also on the iHeartRadio app.

(48:23):
And yet another story that feeds right into this, Courtney.

Speaker 4 (48:27):
Yeah, the tentacles are far and wide. This was new
to me.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
Today, federal prosecutors unsealed an indictment that charges five men
for running what's called Gregy's Cult. Now, Gregy's Cult is
an online child exploitation and sex stortion group. So that exists,
and that has inspired the global extremist network seven six four.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
Which we covered a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
So regarding Gregy's cult in the federal indictment arrest carried
out nationwide and over the course of about a year
January twentieth, say it's January twenty twenty one. Gregy's cult
use discord, which is where you can go and chat
for many reasons, including innocuous ones like recipe sharing and work.

(49:17):
So Gregy's cult use discord and gaming platforms to course
minors as well as adults. They course them into sexual acts,
into self harm and other degrading behaviors. That is an
important part is the degradation, and these behaviors were then
recorded and distributed online as a way to blackmail and

(49:40):
humiliate these victims. The group has overlapped with members of
the seven six' four, group which we've, covered which again
is an extremist network that's evolved into a global. Ideology
it's inspiring offshoots as we, speak and these groups recruit and,
manipulate blackmail vulnerable youth really for uh.

Speaker 6 (50:04):
Sport i'm saying that the fact that they're just doing
it for, sport and you know it's there's not even
a financial, gain which is insane to.

Speaker 5 (50:14):
Me but what a bunch of.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
Bullies what a bunch of. Bullies and the idea is
that this whole.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Group of you, know online dark, predators is that they're
seeking out young, people specifically young, MEN i, believe and you,
know in order to it's almost like a hazing process
or some sort of an inauguration. Process they basically hit
you up and, say, Ooh i'm watching what you're doing.

(50:41):
ONLINE i bet you your mom won't want to know,
that Or, hey welcome to our, cult and in order
to really show your, allegiance we're going to ask you
to do something a little. Inappropriate, Okay so in terms
of what you're talking, about sort of a hazing and
stuff to become a, higher more powerful, member what it would,
be let's just SAY i want to be In gregy's, Cult,

(51:03):
okay THEN i would consider myself a perpetrator and for
me to have clout in the, group my collateral would
be SOMETHING i have sucked victims into doing THAT i
have manipulated. Them so likely from the victim's, perspective things
start as a grooming. Process it starts, with, hey we're

(51:24):
playing roeblocks, together or whatever it may. Be and it
starts with you're a smart, kid or it starts generally.
Friendly it then leads into coercive behavior that you know as.
Grooming as we've spoken about so many, times you can
be tricked and manipulated into doing things that you normally wouldn't.
Do and these members really take it to the highest

(51:48):
of high not just child pornography and. Exploitation they do
things called fan signing, rituals which this is also in
the seven six four, group and signing rituals it's so,
horrible is a way of getting victims to literally carve

(52:08):
the names or aliases of the perpetrating cult members onto their.

Speaker 5 (52:15):
Bodies Oh.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
God and then there are photos and videos taken that
then is used to blackmail these victims into doing more, things,
because as you, Said, stephanie then it becomes And i'll
show your, mother And i'll spread this at, school And
i'll you, know do any innumerable, things and then it

(52:37):
escalates this it's it's really it's.

Speaker 4 (52:39):
Torture, wow it's, sadism and it's.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
Growing it is convincing children as unthinkable as it is
to kill or harm family, pets to sexually abuse other
MINERS i know this is all really hard to, hear
but it's really important to know that it exists and
is now being you, know prosecuted as a, cult which is.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
GROWING i, mean obviously even just having these indictments is
a pretty big deal BECAUSE i think part of the
things that we learned in in cells and in groups
like seven sixty, four which is another online hate group
or extremist. Group what the problem Is online it's really
hard to track for, authorities right you're looking for these lone.

(53:23):
Wolfs there are people who have these small groupings in
the Dark web or on, discord this particular platform where
it's kind of hard to track. People so you're seeing
small groups and therefore these small groups can really slip
through the, cracks and sometimes those cracks could be your.
Kid and they are targeting young adults right Specifically, courtney.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
It's largely young, adults and not for seven six four
it's been largely yes miners or vulnerable. Adults, However greggy's,
cult which is the indictment that you, know just sort of.
Broke they all also would use malware and threats in
attempts to frame adults as pedophiles to gain leverage.

Speaker 4 (54:08):
And again what a way to.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
Manipulate so that was in The gregy's cult had some
adult you, know, framing and the seven sixty, four which
has grown out of it that much more largely is.
Miners and according to court, documents the founder of the
more current seven sixty four network he told the Founder Bradley,

(54:34):
cayden had told a clinical psychologist that he wanted to
Emulate gregy's cult because it received media attention for forcing
victims into this self. Harm but his intention was to
make seven sixty four what he called a whole different
level of. Abuse so wanting to literally update these.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
PEOPLE i, know like you, leave that this happens, right
or that these they all have parents good or. BAD
i have to believe in my heart that they know.
Better in The gregy's, cult they're not all young. People
these were like adun't know.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
CORRECT i, think, yeah, Correct they're All they're absolutely all.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
Grown the men were taken from the.

Speaker 3 (55:17):
Defendants they were From New, York New, Mexico, Hawaii, california And.
Colorado all five were arrested and will be arraigned in
The Eastern district Of New.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
York good good not a great place to get arraigned,
Either SO i hope they throw away the key because that's,
very very Bad and hats off to law enforcement to
cracking down and being able to actually have some arrests.

Speaker 5 (55:40):
Happen there's one positive out of.

Speaker 6 (55:42):
It it's that they are able to catch some of these,
people like they've caught some of, them AND i think
people are hearing more about, it so that it is
educating their kids to be aware of, this because there
was a time WHERE i think these kind of things.

Speaker 5 (55:57):
Went you, know people.

Speaker 6 (55:58):
Probably still but don't talk about some of these unusual
things that happen. Online LIKE i have a friend he
just bought his ten year old daughter a, computer and he's,
like what DO i? Do where DO i put this?
Computer DO i put it in the living? Room is
it okay to have.

Speaker 5 (56:11):
It in her own?

Speaker 6 (56:12):
Room And i'm, like because of this, Show i'm, LIKE
i don't THINK i would ever let my.

Speaker 5 (56:16):
Ten year old child sit in a room with a computer.

Speaker 6 (56:18):
Alone but you, know, anyway it's educating me people out
in the, world and hopefully that's the positive that's coming
out of.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
It and the way that it was explained to me,
too WHICH i thought was really. Helpful it's the equivalent
giving your ten year. Old, again everything's age, appropriate, Right
so this is kind of a sweeping, generalization but giving
your nine or ten year old just a laptop and
an empty room for them to be in with the
door closed is literally the equivalent of giving them the
keys to a car that they don't know how to

(56:45):
drive and.

Speaker 5 (56:45):
Hoping that that's.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Interesting it's just, dangerous, Right AND i think as parents
we want to be vigilant about not, being you, know
putting our kids into dangerous. Situations and if you think
of it as as simple terms.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
Like, that, well of course you wouldn't give your kids
the key to drive your.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Car very, similarly you're giving them keys to something that's
really hard to navigate and there are straight up predators out.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
There, yeah and the car in that lovely simple analogy
also is on the highway with how many people are
online one trillion things and messages coming out and then
you're supposed to navigate.

Speaker 4 (57:20):
That, yeah so we'll keep you.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
Updated and, another as you, said upside cases are being,
prosecuted and in the seven six,' four every single one
OF the fbi agencies is prosecuting at least one case
And Projects safe childhood IS a doj initiative to help
combat online child exploitation and. Protect victims, so people, you

(57:47):
know people at high levels are trying to.

Speaker 4 (57:49):
Stop, this wow, my.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
God believable and by, the way if you're just, joining
us you're Listening To true crime Tonight. On iHeartRadio we're
talking About The, greggy's cult which is an online group
basically that's now been indicted and we'll hopefully be seeing some.
Justice soon so stay. With us we'll be right Back true.
Crime tonight welcome Back To true crime Tonight. On iHeartRadio

(58:21):
we're talking true crime all. The Time I'm stephanie leidecker
Here With courtney Armstrong.

Speaker 4 (58:26):
And, taha house our most.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Favorite producer bodies not, feeling well so we of Course
have Adam and sam in the, control room and tonight
we also have an extra, Special Guest Oh david epps aka.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
We call Him.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
Good times you might know him from many hit reality
shows Such As The jersey Shore Or Krizly knows Best
And America's. Got Talent So good times is basically going
to bring us some like quirky or, crime stories stories
that maybe aren't necess saraily as clever because sometimes also

(59:04):
do very. Stupid THINGS and i hate, that word but
it might apply to some Of good times.

Speaker 4 (59:10):
Is cases So, damon epps welcome to. THE show i.

Speaker 7 (59:14):
LOVE this i hope this thing. Is working i'm not
a professional one.

Speaker 4 (59:19):
That you sound like a million bucks that thing.

Speaker 5 (59:22):
Is, on yeah? GOT it i.

Speaker 7 (59:24):
Love it so how are you.

Speaker 4 (59:25):
Guys doing we're, so good Happy.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Post thanksgiving so like just a little backstory to. Anyone
listening we've worked together for a million years on a million,
different Projects and courtney has, as well so we've all
traveled in more unscripted sort of reality shows back in.
The day but we always Call good Times good times
because he's a.

Speaker 4 (59:46):
Good time he.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Always brings a, good time even when you're in the thick,
of it when like it's two o'clock in the morning
and the shoot's been going way too long and you're
in overtime and you're starving and, it's raining And good
times shows up with like a peach and a diet
coke and, is like it ain't, that bad and he

(01:00:07):
always seems to find the silver lightning.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
And stuff so.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
My understanding is that you have some, you know kind
of off the cuff crime stories to share.

Speaker 7 (01:00:18):
With US oh. I do the good time seems to
not only follow in, happy times but they also happened.
In Crime so i'm happy to sharing these good times in.
Crime stories are we ready for the? First?

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
One yes? Bring it do we need a? Drum roll or.

Speaker 7 (01:00:40):
Maybe it's just LIKE if, i CAN can i get a?

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
Good TIMES can i get a? Good? Time?

Speaker 7 (01:00:45):
What?

Speaker 5 (01:00:45):
What? What okay?

Speaker 7 (01:00:47):
All right all our first good times Start in vancouver
a man with, a dream a dream of one day
having a, great job although he had, another dream a
dream that happened to take a dream of happened to
taking a few knickknacks from a. Stranger's house so, ONE

(01:01:09):
night i know, it's, Nice right so one, late night
when the right, opportunity arose he decided to take advantage
of that opportunity and do what a little something that
we criminals like to, call.

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
Shopping shopping in, someone's house.

Speaker 7 (01:01:27):
YOU know, i mean everybody's got a shop and this was.
His time but did he hear? Something coming and so
he bolt saw, the door but he left. His backpack
so when the owner came through, the door he discovers
the backpack and he looks inside and guess what he found.

Speaker 4 (01:01:43):
His wallet.

Speaker 7 (01:01:46):
Well he sounds. STOLEN items, i mean, he's it but he's,
a Thief? Is stephanie? Come on he also had his
printed resume because the man was seeking the job of
his life and so he was. A professional he had,
his job he had, his name he hit his, phone
number he had, his address previous jobs and what he

(01:02:07):
wanted to be when he decided to fulfill. His dream
AND so, i know it's really nice and the cops
were so thrilled by this opportunity that they gave him a.
Free job they gave him a. Free room they gave
him the, free room and the salary. Wasn't great but
he'll be staying a.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
Few NIGHTS am? I, guessing.

Speaker 7 (01:02:34):
No they did not let him. Go free he stayed a,
few nights, you know but you know or guy, you
know but you know he didn't get you, you know
but at least his resume was it, went well, you
know we got to. Know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
HIM well i know that he left the stuff that
he stole in the backpack there just insult.

Speaker 4 (01:02:49):
To injury he DIDN'T even i think that was.

Speaker 7 (01:02:52):
Handled, NEIGHBOR yeah i think that like that might have
been from a. Previous job you know, he was, he was,
He was he was shopped in. Multiple stores.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
Can you imagine if somebody came to your house and
just started stealing from me when you, knew them and
they were putting personal items of yours in?

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
Their backpack.

Speaker 10 (01:03:12):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
My, goodness no if something was, DOING that i would
just sort, of like you can, have it there's nothing
if you're in my home like, you. Should don't you
don't have, to steal you can actually have it and
don't have to be sneaky. About it oh my. Good
damon there is a if you guys ever? Seen that
it is LIKE a i guess it's an officer body

(01:03:32):
cam footage and an officer is pulling over what could
be a, drunk driver and they take the drunk driver
out of, the car and the female officer says to
the what could be a, drunk driver walk a, straight
line and, she, goes actually don't walk a, straight line and,
SHE goes i want to see you do a little,

(01:03:53):
quick dance and she.

Speaker 7 (01:03:54):
Does like a.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Kickball chain the officer does the, dance first and then
she says to the potentially, drunk person.

Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
Can you do? It too and they crush it and at,
the end and so they do the greatest job doing this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Dance performance and then at the end the, drunkard, says
oh you should.

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):
See me you should see me Dance when i'm. Not,
drinking no, you KNOW whenever i, SAW that i thought.

Speaker 13 (01:04:22):
Of.

Speaker 4 (01:04:22):
You damon this seemed like that would fall under the
the dopey.

Speaker 7 (01:04:25):
Crime category mean what people? Don't Know and i'm seeing
me just. MY voice, i, ACTUALLY uh i can dance,
pretty WELL and i feel like that at my, DRUNKEN
moment i probably can still win a. DANCE move i
probably could have.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Done THAT so i can picture you doing, the worm
like on a Subway in BOSTON.

Speaker 7 (01:04:43):
When i was, you KNOW when i was a, little
lighter the worm was. Much easier but, YOU know i
just don't probably. Do it we can make. It happen
we can make.

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
Anything happen so what else do? You got do you have?
Any more? LIKE wacky i do?

Speaker 7 (01:04:55):
Have one do you? HAVE one, i mean these. GOOD
times i don't know if you like to Go, to
maine but these good times are going To main, we're,
going okay? All, right well a dispatch. Was called they called,
the police and they received a very. Responsible call and
it's always nice when you get a. Responsible call and

(01:05:16):
they reported a. Dangerous situation speaking of. Drunk drivers they
received a call about a situation with a drunk driver on.
The road and it's the kind of call that a
dispatcher loves because it's actually helpful and it can also, save, lives,
right sir.

Speaker 5 (01:05:33):
That's good it's a.

Speaker 7 (01:05:34):
Wonderful thing so the dispatcher they send out the call
to the officer on duty and they give them the
exact location where the assailant. Is, located oh when the,
OFFICERS arrived, i know. It's nice they, were like he is,
right there you will not. Miss him when the, officers
arrived they looked around and they. See nothing there's, no
weaving there's, no swerving. There's nothing so the officers called,

(01:05:57):
the dispatch and the dispatch Calls the samaritan and, they,
said sir where exactly is this? Drunk driver our officers cannot.
Find them and after a, long pause, He said i'm.
Right here i'm in the Car and.

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
I'm, camered no he wasn't going from inside. The house
he was calling from in his, own car, on himself.

Speaker 7 (01:06:22):
Calling from his, own car and, he said you know, the,
Time man he called nine went, on himself and, he
explained and he felt turning himself in was the right thing.
TO do, i, mean look he's an, honest man and
he was arrested for a really. Good deed and the
man may not make great, life choices but let's just

(01:06:45):
get him an a for HONESTY showing.

Speaker 13 (01:06:49):
I.

Speaker 4 (01:06:49):
Did too did he get any leniency because?

Speaker 7 (01:06:51):
Of that, YOU know i think it's, probably well, you
know he wasn't actually driving at. The moment gave him
a little bit less of. A CHARGE but i THINK
he i think he. WENT down i think he. Went down,
you Know, it's Maine. And maine maine doesn't. MESS around
i don't know if you guys know. That name don't.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Mess around maine don't.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
Mess around by, the way it is a very. Tough
time it's amazing that any criminals get away with anything,
these days given all the technology and. Ring cameras but
on top, of that if you just don't have some basic,
common sense it's a it's a sure thing.

Speaker 4 (01:07:26):
That you will.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
Be caught we love that you have been sharing all
of your tales.

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
With, Us, damon oh this is true. Crime tonight we Are.
On iHeartRadio I'm. Courtney armstrong i'm here so lucky as
always to Be With. STEPHANIE leidecker i don't KNOW why
i just Went into. Iambic pentameter my body movin. Is
out she has she's a little. Bit sick but we

(01:07:52):
are here With producer Taha and Sam, and adam and
of course We Have damon epps Aka good times on.
The PHONE so i think you do you have we
have time for? One more do you have one more?

Speaker 7 (01:08:07):
In You? GOOD times? I do i got one more.
In me I've been i've been searching worldwide for The
good times on crime and this one actually is a.
Wonderful time it's a wonderful time. For everybody are you
guys ready to make? Some?

Speaker 5 (01:08:23):
Money yes are you going to make?

Speaker 12 (01:08:24):
Some?

Speaker 4 (01:08:24):
Money sis This, good times The.

Speaker 7 (01:08:28):
Good times we're Heading to texas and two college students
they STOPPED buying atm, late, night right and they're going
there to grab twenty bucks because it's two dollars, beer
night two dollars, bear night. Good times except for what
came out OF. The, atm okay this was not. Twenty
bucks it was a one hundred. Dollars BILL and i don't

(01:08:50):
know and they, were like. That's weird so they, tried
again and they got another one, hundred dollars and then
another one, hundred dollars and they got another one. Hundred
DOLLARS and i, Don't know i'm not very good, at
maths but that is a lot of two. Dollars beers.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
THAT is i would be. SO excited i would be so.
Excited today BUT if i was a, college student.

Speaker 7 (01:09:09):
FORGET it, i mean and after they had like four
or five hundred bucks in, their hands you would think
that these kids would have, been, LIKE dude i got so,
MANY beers, i mean. Twenty BUCKS when i was a kid,
IN college i would have been. Killing it, well no not.
These kids not, these kids BECAUSE this atm had a,
giving heart and so they wanted to, share it and

(01:09:30):
so they called, their friends and their friends called, more
friends and then their friends called more friends and, everybody's
friends and suddenly we had ourselves a good old fashioned
exes get down. Money giveaway.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Oh, no way oh, Yeah it oh.

Speaker 7 (01:09:48):
My god it Became a texas paraty like. Nobody's before
it was movie making kind. Of party and the cops
finally show up because people were taking money out OF
an atm because the party got so out of control
and people were having so much money and it was
raining money that the police finally just showed up to

(01:10:10):
stop the party from being. So, crazy wow oh.

Speaker 3 (01:10:15):
My goodness that's THE party i want to. Go, To,
listen david we want to thank you so much for joining,
us tonight for bringing us the good times and listen anyone.
Who's listening if you want to see more Of what damon,
is building you can and should check out, his Company
Next wave agentic at nextwaveagentic. Dot com they are creating

(01:10:40):
really high performance digital projects and real. World experiences incredibly
cool and be sure to Follow on instagram at GOOD.
Times EPs so thank you so, so much and Tis.

Speaker 5 (01:10:56):
That damon thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:10:58):
So Much, All right i'll bye, Bye BYE and I
think Sam and adam we might have some time for a.

Speaker 5 (01:11:07):
Talk back we tossed.

Speaker 12 (01:11:08):
To, One, now, HI ladies i am listening to the
show and you guys are talking About your christmas trees.

Speaker 4 (01:11:14):
AND body i.

Speaker 12 (01:11:14):
Love The Charlie brown.

Speaker 9 (01:11:15):
Christmas tree i've been Obsessed With charlie BROWN since i was.

Speaker 13 (01:11:17):
A BABY but I heard adam talking about his apartment
being too small For a christmas tree in.

Speaker 4 (01:11:23):
MY apartment i have half Of a.

Speaker 9 (01:11:25):
CHRISTMAS tree i literally bought it that way because it
goes up against. A wall it is literally half of.
A tree it's the craziest, Thing Ever, so adam that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:32):
Is, joke ever.

Speaker 5 (01:11:35):
THAT'S about i have.

Speaker 11 (01:11:38):
A tree i'm glad people are looking out for. Me
here i'll have to, You know i'll, have to, you
know move some trash aside and Put.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
MY christmas i cannot not have a tree because there's too.
Much TRASH that i know is not the case because
you're you're you're. Super clean but the Half a christmas
tree is a. Great call that's a.

Speaker 4 (01:11:58):
BRILLIANT idea i never thought it.

Speaker 5 (01:12:00):
Wouldn't be how sweet you go To the did they
cut that way? FOR you i.

Speaker 11 (01:12:04):
DON'T know i looked them up before. The show yeah
they're well they come. Pre cut they're Cutting, half okay
well they're probably, fig trees but uh they. LOOK nice
i MEAN it's, i mean it's exactly what you. Would
picture it's just half a, tree place.

Speaker 6 (01:12:17):
Half a tree right up against. The wall and that's. That's,
perfect yeah its. Not BAD might i might look? Into
this this might be my new plan for, the holidays
so clever and few ornaments, are needed so is?

Speaker 3 (01:12:30):
That too and, HOUSING it i mean that's the real
issue is where do you? Put this, you know if
you don't have some garage or some to.

Speaker 5 (01:12:41):
Put everything so that's true With The charlie brown tree or.
OR something i gotta.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
Tell you mine comes apart pretty it's it's like in
three different parts?

Speaker 4 (01:12:49):
In it or what do you? Pre lit you just plug.

Speaker 5 (01:12:51):
It in oh it's, pre lit too.

Speaker 4 (01:12:53):
Pre lit it's like it's real dummy. Proof same, you
know it's like it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
EVEN big i mean it's really big when you put,
it up but it's in three different sections a SECTION
of b SECTION at. C section you plug those sections
together and boom you have a.

Speaker 4 (01:13:09):
Fully lit tree that comes apart for. Easy storage, nice
okay and you just need to let it fluff itself
out a.

Speaker 3 (01:13:17):
Little BITS.

Speaker 11 (01:13:21):
But i love the fake tree and you make it
look real by bending.

Speaker 4 (01:13:25):
Them all up exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:13:29):
Pine, pine candle and you're good. To go no one
knows the different so well that that may be my
holiday plan. Coming UP so i love.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
Doing. That, excellent well, stick around we have tons more to.
Dig into we actually have a bunch of suggestions and
very strong opinions and talk backs and keep. It Here True,
Crime tonight we're talking true crime all.

Speaker 4 (01:13:53):
The time.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
Welcome Back To True crime Tonight. On iHeartRadio we're talking
true crime all. The, time man this that has. Flown
By I'm stephanie leidecker Here With courtney armstrong and Our.
Producer taha so there is this incredibly, wild case kind
of the likes Of which i've never. HEARD before a
man literally tried to buy a young mother's ten month

(01:14:29):
old child.

Speaker 4 (01:14:30):
At, auction courtney you have to fill us in on.

Speaker 3 (01:14:33):
This one it really is so out there to me and.
So strange so Authorities In, washington parish this Is. In
louisiana they've arrested this seventy three year. Old man his
Name Is Howell, jean penton and as, you mentioned he
allegedly tried to buy to purchase a woman's ten month.

(01:14:57):
Old daughter they were at an. Auction house so what
the deputies say is that the incident was first reported
Back on november, twenty six so about ten, days ago
and there was an. Immediate investigation they wrapped us. Up
QUICKLY so i want to give It To, Washington. Parish
louisiana there was an, immediate investigation an, undercover operation and

(01:15:21):
that led straight to The Accused Howell glenn penton's. Quick
arrest the auction house owners are cooperating fully and the
case is.

Speaker 4 (01:15:30):
Still developing but again the man has.

Speaker 3 (01:15:33):
Been arrested so my, FIRST question i think, EVERYONE'S was,
i said what kind of? Auction, house yeah what is
happening at?

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
This?

Speaker 6 (01:15:40):
Auction YEAH when i saw as our Seats.

Speaker 5 (01:15:48):
And angie, auction house it's called is? That right that's.

Speaker 4 (01:15:51):
Exactly right so It was angie's.

Speaker 3 (01:15:53):
Auction house it is described as a flea. Market hybrid
it's a typical venue where you can get a variety.
Of things you can, get furniture, household items maybe some real,
estate items and these things are sold.

Speaker 4 (01:16:09):
To bitters so what the child's mother.

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
Reported was that the accused just made a direct offer,
and said let me let me buy. Your infant the
girl thankfully was, never touched she was.

Speaker 4 (01:16:25):
Never harmed it's safe with.

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
Her mother it's, you know, i'd say, all's well that,
Ends WELL but i don't know what This Howl, jean
penton how many other babies he's been trying?

Speaker 4 (01:16:35):
To buy if.

Speaker 5 (01:16:36):
At, all right.

Speaker 6 (01:16:38):
So he just randomly went up to like they didn't
have a connection. At all so it sounds like he
just randomly went up to some person, AND says i
want to buy, your child which, is wacky wild, and
hoied but horrifying and frightening, AND anyway i guess my
thought process went TO immediately, i thought did he know?

(01:16:59):
This woman or was this some kind of connection or
is just a. Random stranger but it sounds like he's
just a random stranger he went.

Speaker 3 (01:17:04):
Up, to yeah nothing that's been reported indicates there was
any kind, Of connection so it does appear to be just, a,
random older seventy three year old gentleman going up to
a mother and a young baby and wanting to. Make
purchase and, you know thankfully he's being held At The Washington.
Parish jail this Is, in franklinton and he is on

(01:17:28):
two hundred thousand dollars of.

Speaker 4 (01:17:29):
A bond that is hardly, a gentleman not. At all
that is. Very true that is. VERY true i. Darn him.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
That's terrible shame, On him shame on him and. HIS
weirdness i don't like that.

Speaker 7 (01:17:44):
At.

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
All, strange yeah can we move on to maybe, something
better like a cold case that was Solved in colorado
DUE to dna and.

Speaker 4 (01:17:53):
Technical advancements we can move on.

Speaker 6 (01:17:55):
To THAT now i will have poor body who's not
with us tonight because she's under. The weather brought this
story to, my ATTENTION and i found this FASCINATING because
i started to fall in LOVE with dna after WE Had.

Speaker 5 (01:18:07):
CC moron i. Loved her wasn't?

Speaker 6 (01:18:09):
She amazing but she and this is echoing some of
what she said and as TO how dna is going
to impact a lot of these. Cold cases but investigators
have solved the nineteen eighty seven Murder Of Ronda marie
fisher after NEWLY tested dna from. Decades old, get this
decade old paper bags matched the convicted, Serial Killer Vincent.

(01:18:34):
Darryl GROVES so i had never heard about this case or.

Speaker 5 (01:18:38):
This person but here's a.

Speaker 6 (01:18:39):
Little Background Victim Ronda. Marie fisher she was thirty. Years
old she was found sexually assaulted and strangled along a
rural highway South. Of denver this was Back in april
first of nineteen, eighty seven and she had been Seen
in denver like the. Night before but, YOU know i
guess they found her body and there were. No leads

(01:19:03):
for the, longest time they had no idea who killed
her or. What happened but despite investigative LEADS and dna
testing in, twenty seventeen the case remained unsolved for nearly.
Four decades so this has been going on for. A,
while well fast Forward and i'll.

Speaker 5 (01:19:20):
Just kind of give you the moving.

Speaker 6 (01:19:21):
Forward ahead the bags were preserved for nearly. Forty years
The bags i'm referring to were during the when SHE
was i guess what happened was she had two paper
bags that were placed over her hands during the assault or.
That happened the paper bags had been preserved for nearly,

(01:19:43):
forty years and they were believed to contain transferred skin
cells From Victim Randa marie. Fisher's, hands well the forensic
scientists achieved a RARE viable dna profile from the, paper
bags which this. Is important this highlights the long term
value how important it is to preserve. This evidence investigators

(01:20:05):
noted that the bags had not been USED with dna
in mind at that, time period because this is something
they didn't do back at nineteen. Eighty seven the PROFILE
the Dna Matched Vincent darryl grives and he was a.
Convicted killer he died in prison in nineteen, ninety six
and he's actually considered One of colorado's most prolific. Serial,

(01:20:26):
killers like this was a. Serious person he had been
known to kill up to almost a. Dozen people SO,
the dna after all these, years later they did, the
match they figured out it. Was him and another cold
case has been solved THANKS to dna and the preservation
of key. Valuable MATERIALS so i thought this one was

(01:20:50):
an interesting case and a reminder of how important all
of the, evidence.

Speaker 4 (01:20:54):
Is and like, you said keeping it and.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
Preserving it And, Now Ronda, marie fisher the, victory families
they have, some closure and there was within all the
context of the story you, just told there are heroes
who actually kept the case alive.

Speaker 4 (01:21:09):
Forty years so it speaks to.

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
You know a lot of great technological progress and, you
know at least a bit.

Speaker 5 (01:21:16):
Of.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
Closure yeah and by, the way just the idea that
cases aren't being. LEFT behind i don't know how people
do it in. Law enforcement, you know there are so
many problems in, the moment in the, real day right,
you know tomorrow there will be unfortunately crimes and things
that are happening in real time that need their attention
and to have the wherewithal to be able to go

(01:21:37):
back in time for that, long decades it's.

Speaker 6 (01:21:40):
Pretty, astounding yeah it makes you feel good knowing that
there are some law enforcement people out there that, Are
like i'm not giving up, On THIS like i am.

Speaker 5 (01:21:49):
Going to stick with this CASE because i. Care, it
YEAH that's.

Speaker 3 (01:21:52):
I mean, You know we've had the opportunity to speak
to some Some, investigator stephanie and it's it truly is
what you see in movies and documentaries and more of
some detectives who with victims pictures on, their walls they
look at it every day, AND said i can't forget
it drives me every.

Speaker 4 (01:22:11):
Single day and you know that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:16):
The perseverance AND the i, don't know the human connection of, It,
all yeah helped push.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
Things forward the, HUMAN connection i think is a very
important piece.

Speaker 3 (01:22:25):
Of that what was the what was the documentary? WE
watched i absolutely. Adored it we. Did it it was
a true crime and chill and it was about the
man who was.

Speaker 4 (01:22:36):
Being stalked do.

Speaker 7 (01:22:38):
You REMEMBER what i?

Speaker 5 (01:22:38):
WAS saying I think i know what you're talking was
like the.

Speaker 4 (01:22:41):
Killer, murder yes and he didn't.

Speaker 5 (01:22:45):
Want to give up. On it was it the one with, Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:22:49):
Oh i'm going to blink the name. Of it there
was One with it wasn't the one where it wound
up being? The woman how do we all have amnesia?

Speaker 5 (01:22:57):
Right? NOW this I know i.

Speaker 4 (01:22:59):
Can't remember it Was watch it Was Lover, stalker killer.

Speaker 3 (01:23:05):
And there was a woman who died and basically, the
victim the true victim in all this was being, basically
slandered and it was made to seem the public perception
that she disappeared her life, on purpose she was framed
in death and that she left her. Young child and
there was, one detective after speaking with the victim's mother,

(01:23:26):
who said you, know what something is not right and
literally took things in his.

Speaker 4 (01:23:30):
OWN hands i do remember. The investigation it WAS very
i think that was.

Speaker 5 (01:23:34):
The case. DID you i think you both said you
had worked in Was it Crazy? In Love that, You're
yeah Crazy?

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
In?

Speaker 4 (01:23:39):
Love yeah we did fifty two episodes.

Speaker 5 (01:23:41):
Of, that wow, yeah yeah well, so yeah that.

Speaker 6 (01:23:45):
Was a good example of a detective, That's like i'm
not going to. Give up i'm going to keep going
until the, bitter END until i figure. This OUT so
i find that world, fascinating too just, in general like
the detective side. OF things i know you guys interact
with them often and in the true, crime world but,
YOU know i like that Side of i'm going to

(01:24:06):
figure out what. This is i'm going to pick it
apart and keep digging, and digging which is kind of
what you probably.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
Not letting it go and just sort of not letting,
it go like, YOU know i think that's a big piece.
OF it, i think You know corney, is saying, HUMAN
connection i think is such a big piece of. The
puzzle if you, don't care you're not going to probably
find the. Missing link that requires so, much heart sweat
and tears to be able to get to that piece of.
The Puzzle and i've been more awed by detectives over

(01:24:34):
the years that have really put it all on, the
line by, the way with, great sacrifice missing, the things,
getting dinners missing their, kids' birthdays having to travel on,
a whim having to get up in the middle of
the night when your sick wife wants you to stay
home in bed because she has. The flu yet you're
driven to some larger calling because you know that the

(01:24:55):
answer might be. Out there and then to see that
actually get paid off in. The end it's pretty it's
pretty life changing just, a witness, let alone to be
a family member of somebody who's finally. Getting answers, you
know there are victims everywhere who are still missing key
pieces of.

Speaker 14 (01:25:14):
The, puzzle, yeah Yeah well i'm glad that they are
out there and we have them in. Our lives so
but that's a talk about totally have a talk back
and get.

Speaker 5 (01:25:26):
Something Going.

Speaker 15 (01:25:27):
Hi teams Selicia. From atlanta i've been following the tragic
Case Of rebecca park and as a mother, of four it's.
Truly heartbreaking many people can't understand how her own mother could,
Do this but biology doesn't always. Eat connection in, this
case the lack of the real bond, is evident especially
in how her birth mother was able to separate her

(01:25:50):
from her baby and commit something. So horrific my heart
goes out. To them stay, Safe everyone we.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
LOVE you i love your, voice FIRST and i just have,
to say it's such a Great, velvets yeah like, velvet literally,
and yeah. You're right sometimes there isn't. THAT connection i
mean clearly there wasn't, one here because, you know to
do that to your own.

Speaker 3 (01:26:12):
Daughter and what the what the talk back is referring
To Is. Rebecca parks she's a twenty two year old
woman who was largely pregnant thirty nine weeks pregnant and
ultimately was found murdered and, her mother along with other,
family members have been arrested and charged with taking her

(01:26:36):
baby out of. Her belly so missing connection, Is, correct yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:26:45):
It is that's.

Speaker 6 (01:26:47):
That, one yeah that's another case that we have. Been
following and it's a really hard one to fathom because
that's a family and you, would, think like, you know of.

Speaker 5 (01:26:58):
Course it's, a family so they would be. As protective
but what's happened and with that one is it's it's.
ALMOST speaks i can't be.

Speaker 4 (01:27:07):
Next level oh. My goodness she didn't stand, A Chance.

Speaker 2 (01:27:09):
Rebecca park she had a crappy baby daddy, who stinks
and she had a stepfather who stinks who's now also
behind bars and also a previous. Sex offender he she
has a mom that stinks that would actually do something
so terrible and, you know the charges alone say say.

Speaker 4 (01:27:29):
So much and HER sister o guess what?

Speaker 2 (01:27:32):
She, stinks, yeah yeah, just involved the, SISTERS involved, i
mean they're.

Speaker 4 (01:27:38):
All involved and they were all sort of there's like
some they're all hooking up a little bit with, Each
other like there doesn't seem to be any real.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
Basic BOUNDARIES and i can't Imagine how rebecca got as
far as. She had she didn't stand, a chance and
it makes.

Speaker 5 (01:27:53):
Me, mad, yeah yeah. It's horrible you're angry.

Speaker 3 (01:27:58):
The card she, was DEALT AND i, i, mean yeah
these circumstances are a little bit. Beyond imagination but for
anyone who's lucky enough to have a, SIBLING relationship i
mean there's. Literally nothing it's unimaginable for me to do
anything to harm, my sister.

Speaker 2 (01:28:16):
Just period in, the end, let alone you can imagine
harming someone who's harming, her sister, because like, you, know you,
you KNOW like i can Speak for courtney on. THAT
one i don't have, a sister only. Her Brothers but,
courtney will she'll stand up to. The, DEATH yes i
will stand up for my sister in the best.

Speaker 4 (01:28:33):
Way now that she needs standing, up for because. She's
perfect but, you know that's, the.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
Sisterhood, You know so for that to be so spoiled
and horrible, and wretched it's a real stain.

Speaker 5 (01:28:45):
On humanity, WELL well i hate that we ended on Anyone.

Speaker 4 (01:28:53):
Treks adam or yeah Nothing half christmas.

Speaker 5 (01:28:57):
Tree stories or anything else that can make. Me smile
it's going to be a.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Beautiful weekend whoever and wherever. You are just know that
we are crazy. For you we love getting to spend
our nights. With you we are entering the. Holiday season
sometimes that's a little triggering, for people so don't feel.
The pressure just know that you are welcome here with
us at our proverbial table every. Single night we're not here, tomorrow,

(01:29:21):
night though so we're not Back. Until sunday so And
on sunday we have a. Huge show we Are, alborn
arambland who is like the. Renowned psychologist you'll also remember
her From The brian.

Speaker 4 (01:29:33):
Coburger case she was the professor at. The sales he was.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
Her student she's not allowed to talk about the coburger piece,
of it but btk oof she is. The expert so all,
that more make sure you stay. With us we'll speak
to You. On sunday we. Love you.

Speaker 4 (01:29:51):
Stay safe

Speaker 15 (01:30:00):
Boo boo

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