Angela Craig’s Best Friend Details Poison Plot in James Craig Murder Trial, and ‘Slender Man’ Attacker Morgan Geyser to Reenter Society After Six Years Institutionalized

Tensions rise in several high-profile cases this week. Pre-trial battles continue in the Brian Walshe murder case as prosecutors build their case over Ana Walshe’s death, while Colorado dentist Dr. James Craig faces shocking testimony in his alleged poisoning of his wife, Angela. Meanwhile, Congress delays a vote to force the release of Epstein-related files, extending the fight over long-sought documents. A Stephan Stern talkback sparks questions on sentencing details. Tune in for all the details.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It is Monday, July twenty first,
and listen, we have a stacked night of deadlines. Listen.
The dentist that we've been talking about all week trial
continues and we're going to unpack sort of who has
been testifying against him, because it seems like the information

(00:39):
is stacking up against this dentist. Also, do you remember
the slender Man. Slender Man was this fictional character and
two young girls literally brutally attacked another twelve year old
and one of those two is being released from a
psychiatric ward. So we're going to unpack that story as well.
And then last night we talked about the case of
Anna wall and Anna Walsh was allegedly, allegedly allegedly murdered

(01:04):
by her husband and that has some connective tissue to
Karen Reid. So we're coming with a lot of Karen
Reid rest assured. But first Epstein. This Epstein thing continues
to heat up, and it's a Monday. We learned last
week that Friday is when the White House buries all
of the news. But here we are on Monday, and
it's back from both sides. So we want to kick in.

(01:26):
But first, I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head up KAT Studios,
where I get to make true crime podcasts and documentaries.
I get to do that every night alongside crime expert
and producer Courtney Armstrong and also crime analyst and host
Body Movin. You'll remember her from Donut with Katz, the
Netflix documentary and listen, we love hearing from you. So

(01:48):
eight eight eight three to one Crime, jump in call
us anytime. You can also leave us a talkback, which
is kind of like a voice memo. Basically, you download
the iHeartRadio app. It's free, and you push the right
hand corner top right, and you can leave a little
message and you're on the show. And now you could
also leave us a voicemail. We're going old school eight

(02:09):
eight eight three one Crime and last, you could also
hit us up on our socials at True Crime Tonight
show on TikTok and Instagram, or at True Crime Tonight
on Facebook. So but first, here we go, Courtney Armstrong,
let's talk Einstein and I mean Jeffrey Epstein. Yes, that's
how they have to say it now on TikTok because

(02:30):
he's getting banned from everything, big time, big time. Actually,
before we even get there, Courtney Armstrong, sorry to cut
you off, we have a talk back. Hello.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
I was just calling to say I appreciate the show.
You guys make my drives home very interesting and easier
to deal with after a long shift. I do turn
to the radio station to find you guys. I get
sad when I don't cut you, but when I do,

(02:59):
I make sure I'm like hops In and turn up
volume as much as I can, and I get sad.
And there's commercials because you know the radio keep doing
what you're doing. You guys are awesome and I love
how oh you guys, I don't know. Your voices are
very soothing.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Okay, we started the history of time? Also sweet Yeah,
so no, she she left. That was a voicemail.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
So again, you can give us a call at eighty
eight thirty one time and leave us a voicemail if
we don't answer the phone or if we're you know,
if we're live, We'll ontwer the phone.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
You could be on the show. But that was so nice,
That was so thoughtful. Thank you. That's what we want.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
We want people to feel like we're all sitting together,
you know, you're just gabbing with your girls about the latest.
That's the feeling we want. And hopefully the person that
left the voicemail feels the love. And if you don't
love us, you can call still too.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
That's okay. Also, yes, well I am a fragile ego. Okay,
don't do that. Yeah, speaking of gradulate egos. So what
is going on with all things Trump and Epstein? It
seems like it's heating up on both sides. And I'm
just going to go ahead and say it. I think
this is the biggest scandal in our history. And I

(04:15):
really do. And I know that's saying a ton, but listen,
what is the most hideous crime that we could all agree,
no matter what side of the fence you're on, we
could all agree trafficking young women and torturing them and
sexually abusing them. I think everybody can agree that's a
very very bad thing, as bad as it gets right.

(04:35):
And here we are potentially world leaders, very high profile
people at the bottom of what is the worst of
the worst, and I think we need to know more.

Speaker 5 (04:45):
Well, you are not alone, Stephanie, because almost everyone unanimously
is screaming for more information what is behind the cover.
So just today the House decided it will not take
a vote this week on forcing them release of the files,
the Epstein related files.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Republicans have opted.

Speaker 5 (05:05):
To give the administration a little bit more time to
act voluntarily. And yeah, body is making a crazy face,
but I agree. So the weight is on. We don't
there's no gas pedal to it right now. And for
those who have been missing the news, Jeffrey Ebstein is
of course a financier, wildly wealthy or living a wildly

(05:27):
wealthy life facing federal sex trafficking charges. So he died
in twenty nineteen in prison by hanging. That's also in
dispute of whether it was suicidal. It has been deemed
or not, as many many people, most prominently medical experts,
believe that it was not suicide. So yeah, lawmakers from

(05:48):
both parties have been pushing for the release of.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Because it's mutually assured destruction. It's mutually That's why I'm
saying it's this is not a small matter. We cannot
just like and this is I hope it goes away.
We should be focusing on this, not that. No, no,
there's a that and that that is very important because
the people on that list are affecting a lot of
our lives in ways that we're not even aware of.

(06:13):
That's number one. Even Glaye Maxwell's brother, Gilaine Maxwell, is
allegedly his not allegedly, she was convicted of it federally,
being his right hand woman, she was sort of the groomer.
We're looking for better words for grooming, by the way,
So eight aight, eight three one crime. Keep that convo going.
But Gilaine Maxwell would basically groom young women, really young,

(06:33):
like thirteen year olds, you know, to go and maybe
go give massages to this very high profile man in
exchange for you know, getting into a certain school or
maybe getting into an art program, you know, young young girls,
and then they would be lured allegedly to this island,
their passports would be taken, and then they would be
sexually assaulted, only to be returned home for nobody to

(06:56):
believe them. The number one whistleblower we talked about this,
I recognized nauseum. Virginia Dufray lost her life. She committed suicide.
I don't know, back in April of twenty twenty five,
so pretty recently, so Jill's MI coincidence, regardless of what
the chatter is. And again I don't mean this in
a conspiracy way. It's just interesting timeline that the person

(07:16):
who probably knows the most is no longer here to
discuss it, Jeffrey Epstein. You know, we're told as recently
as two and a half weeks ago that it was
definitely a suicide, no questions here. But yet so many
very real medical officials are saying otherwise, including Gilay Maxwell's brother,
who really has no skin in this game other than

(07:37):
he likes his sister. He's also saying that he has
reports that it was not a suicide, meaning Epstein did
not commit suicide. So it's really big stuff, and I
think that everybody we have to stay focused a little
bit on it. I don't know what the big cover
up is and nor do I even have a speculation,
but it seems I don't know, it seems dangerous.

Speaker 5 (07:57):
Yeah, And on the topic of Gilan Mack, her brother
Ian Maxwell, he has had a lot to say. Just recently,
he told the publication that his sister Geiling does not
believe that Epstein died by suicide, has said Stephanie, and
also that she feels endangered in prison.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
You're listening to True Crime tonight on iHeart Radio.

Speaker 4 (08:20):
I'm body move in and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong
and Stephanie Lidecker and we're right in the middle of
this ein Einstein.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Oh my gosh, because that's what they make you say
it on social media. Many people are getting kicked off
using the word Epstein.

Speaker 4 (08:34):
Epstein, That's what I was anything Now, Now, give us a
call at eighty eight thirty one Crime if you want
to weigh in, or use the talkbacks on the iHeart
Radio app.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
And we have a talkback right now.

Speaker 6 (08:44):
Oh hi, Gus, I have a quick question.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
I love you. Wonder hell.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Jeffrey Epstein got out his money.

Speaker 7 (08:52):
Do you guys have any input in that?

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Oh? Thank you?

Speaker 4 (08:56):
Go ahead, stephan Well, I mean we I can do
it too, go for it. So he had an early
career on Wall Street, so he was basically in stocks,
and then he created a financial consulting company for like
the super wealthy, and it was like in the eighties
and it was called Jay Epstein and Co. And you
know he was This is is interesting. He was famously

(09:18):
secret about his client list.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Well, where did he get this money to be such
a fancy finance here firm, I guess is the larger question?
Well that's the okay, So you're going to talk about
what's his name? Listen, It's just it's been reported wildly.
This is not a personal theory. Les Wexler, who owned Wexler, Yes,
less Wexler, who owns like the Limited if you remember
that clothing store that was really really popular back in

(09:41):
the day. Victoria's Secret, for example, he's like a bajillionaire,
and it's always been alleged that there was some sort
of finance trail to him. He also was a teacher
at one point, Jeffrey Epstein, even though he had no credentials,
at a very fancy, high profile New York school Dalton
that some connective tissue back to Robert oh what is

(10:03):
his name, the former General Attorney.

Speaker 4 (10:05):
Some people believe like his wealth was like really inflated
and like kind of like he's a cod a facade.
And there's widespread claims that Epstein used blackmail and compromant,
which is, you know, compromising material on powerful people to
gain influence.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
That's interesting.

Speaker 5 (10:23):
And also, Stephanie, I know you said alleged to be
careful about the connection between Epstein and the owner of
what Victoria's secret, et cetera, the richest man in Ohio.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, but it's not alleged.

Speaker 5 (10:38):
I mean there he Epstein was his had power of
attorney and he controlled all of his finances, and several
properties were exchanged between the two men, but also shrouded
in many multiple different shot like shadow companies.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
So no, it's fact. Thank you for reminding me. I
get a little free to talk about this. Somehow, I
feel like we're supposed to be talking in code words
or something, but here we are putting ourselves out there.
But it is Listen, there is some real tentacles to this,
and it seems like if you map it a little bit,
and we're in the early stages doing of this. Jeffrey
Epstein lived many lives, none of them really made sense.

(11:18):
It's almost he was like a walking house of cards. Really.
So if we're talking about the island, and these are
some of the theories, air quotes or the chatter again,
this is not conspiracy talk. This is things that have
been reported in the press, in the news real time.
Is that when that island was gone through, there were
video cameras and it appeared that there were cameras everywhere.

(11:42):
So if we're going back to the original allegation that
he was working as some sort of an agent for
larger forces, I don't know what those are. If he
was putting very important people and compromising positions with young
women and there was tape to prove it, what better
blackmail do you need? That makes it really important? Now
cut to real time. Here we are today. There are

(12:05):
world wars everywhere, seemingly or at least the chatter of
a lot of it, right, and we're in a scary place.
And listen, how do you believe anything if we can't
believe anything? Well, and that's I think part of it.
As like a math teacher, didn't he start out as
a math teacher. He was like a math professor at Dalton,
which is a very prestigious school. That's where he met

(12:25):
a lot of wealthy families.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
And from there he went to like bear Stearns and
worked you know stocks and you know, investing money for
really wealthy families, and I think that's where he started
making all these connections, obviously, and then he went to
his own firm and of course got richer and richer
and richer. But it is alleged that he used blackmail
and whatnot back then, which is very interesting in.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Mind, it seems to have been working, and now somehow,
mysteriously it's like, oh no, there's no blackmail waits. Everybody
was saying, it's all blackmail, so much blackmail. Oh my goodness,
the blackmail. And now that it's time to put up
or it's like nothing to see here. And that just
makes us all feel a little uneasy about the many
decisions being made in the world right now. And that's
really the truth of it, you know. It's a little

(13:09):
bit of like liar liar, pants on fire. One time's fine,
two times fine. Now it seems like we can't trust anything.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
Well, we're going to be doing a deep dive into
the James Craig case, the dentist of you accused of
killing his wife with poisoned protein shakes and later a
slender man. The girl is a weight walking free keep
it here at true five tonight, You guys might remember

(13:40):
the slender Man case where two young girls stabbed brutally
a third twelve year old one of the two.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
That was accused. They've been spending time in psychiatric care.
One is getting released this week, so we're going to
unpack that case a little bit. And then also this
Anna Walsh case. Anna Walsh allegedly was killed by her husband, Brian,
and that has some real close connections to the same
investigator that was also slightly problematic in the Karen Reid case.

(14:10):
But first, more about this dentist. This dentist in Colorado
who allegedly killed his wife, mother of six, with eye drops. So, body,
do you want to fill us in because I know
it was a full day in the courthouse today.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
Yeah, so today was kind of focused on all the
medical professionals that worked on the victim. So medical professionals
were called to testify today. As proceedings continue in the
murder trial of James Craig, I'm going to remove the
doctor from his name because screw him, right. The Colorado
dentists and father of six accused of fatally poisoning his wife, Angela.

(14:45):
She was forty three years old, mother of his six children.
And it's alleged, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly that he poisoned her
with potassium cyanide and arsenic and put them in an
eye dropper and then gave her drops and her protein
shakes that she would have in the mornings. And he

(15:05):
did this in order to pursue a new romantic life.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
This is the.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
Stuff of nightmares, right, So Peter sawtile doctor Peter Stottile.
I hope I'm saying his last name right, and I apologize,
but it's it's a no name. So he's a physician
at the University of Colorado, and he took the stand.
The court does consider him an expert in hospital medicine
and specifically palmonology, and he treated Angela. He told James,

(15:32):
the perpetrator in this case, that Angela was likely braindead,
and James's response was somewhat unusual.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
He said.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
The doctor said that he told James about Angela's condition,
and he responded to the effect of, well, that's unfortunate,
like real black weird, yeah, like real, like, well that's unfortunately,
that's unfortunate.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Like that's what I say.

Speaker 5 (15:52):
If I spill a little of my coffee, if I
spill my whole cup, I have a bigger reaction than fortunate.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
No, that's a really good analogy, Like, yeah, like that's unfortunate.
It was just unusual. He said that James's response was lackluster,
and when given the option of continuing care, he said
that they should stop care, as if that's what Angela
would have wanted. He said, in his clinical experience, this
discussion takes several days, but he didn't see any grief
or hesitation from the from the dentist James, he thinks

(16:22):
that they could have gone in different directions with Angela's care,
and the decision to continue or to stop is nuanced
and complicated, right, like you have to weigh You're going
to be weighing like, okay, well, if she's brain dead
and they want to try this, what will her quality
of life be? You know, you have to go through
all these motions. And it seemed like he was just like,
she wouldn't have wanted that, Yeah, pulled the plug kind

(16:43):
of situation. And he told the defense that he's seen
people in just all kinds of things. He said he
usually does get a history on if patients invest something themselves,
whether it's you know, a note, you know, like maybe
somebody is killing themselves, they'll leave a note or a
pill bottle. However, he said it's not always the patient
who says they're the ones who took something. He said,

(17:04):
everyone's grief looks different and no reaction is less common,
but it does happen, so he didn't really think too
much of it, but he did know that it was unusual.
There was a lot of testimony today. Another person that
testified was Angela's friend Nicole Harmon, and they've been best
friends for a really long time and in twenty nineteen,

(17:26):
if you remember, we've talked about this before, there was
a previous attempt on Angela's life by her husband and
when Nicole, this is the friend Nicole Harmon, learned about this,
their friendship kind of got strained, and she thinks it
was you know, Angela was maybe ashamed or you know,

(17:47):
feeling weird about it, but they still remain friends and
Nicole her friend. Angela called Nicole on one of the
mornings that she took the eye Drop smoothie and said
that she wasn't feeling well and could she come over
and bring her like diabetic testing kit for blood sugar.
She thought maybe her blood sugar was low. So she
went over and she said that Angela was sitting on

(18:09):
the couch with the kids watching cartoons and she had
noticed this protein shake on the end table.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah, maybe it was like soured protein or something, she thought.

Speaker 4 (18:19):
She thought, yeah, and then she had to take her
daughter to school. So she took her daughter to school,
and when she came back, Angela had gone to the hospital. Wow, yeah,
with something very dire. She knew, Yeah, she absolutely knew.
She said that Angela told her James made her that smoothie.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
In the morning.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
She texted James who said it could it was probably
the rona.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
He said, that's the oh, coronavirus. Yes, so after Angela's test,
is weighing in on the coronavirus.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
After Angela went to the hospital, you know, her friend
Nicole was texting to find out what was going on,
and the dentist, James said, it's the rona, which is
interesting because they didn't any indication that it was coronavirus
at the hospital, so he totally lied, you know, he like, oh,
don't look here, you know, don't bother. She's fine. She's
going to be in the hospital for a couple of days.

(19:09):
Very interesting, I thought the other people who testified. Let
me get my notes here. Nurse Rose testified. She said,
on March fifteenth, Angela arrived dizzy and after some testing,
she left briefly. James returned and reported arm pain, and
then Angela started suffering full body convulsions. This triggered an

(19:33):
emergency response and they drew blood. Observed James taking photos
from the hallway. He had never seen this behavior during
emergent care. She had never seen this kind of behavior
from somebody in emergent care. Yeah, he was acting very
strange and taking pictures of his wife convulsing. Well, we
learned that he sent one of the pictures to his girlfriend.

(19:55):
Oh this guy, yeah, what mm hmm he sent He
was having an affair, well, probably a couple. He had
confessed to Nicole. There's a lot of players here, you guys.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
It's hard to keep track of about Nicole is her
friend all right, that I had just talked about, And
he had told Nicole that they were all really good friends,
they were like family friends, that he was a sex addict.
There are a lot of layers.

Speaker 5 (20:21):
If you if you want to weigh in and ask
some questions or help qualify or help us write a
tree of what's going on. In this case, we're at
eight at eight three one prime. Yeah, what are your
thoughts on this stentis? He's been all over the news
and was his poor wife. Actually I don't even want
to give breath to what he's saying right now, but.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
No, but it's one of your thoughts there was. I
was reading some articles about, you know how dentists. We've
heard this before, that dentist in general, this is a
chat GPT agrees that sometimes they have a higher rate
of depression because they have solitude, they have a lot
of anxiety. Nobody really goes to the dentist for a
good time only go in very short, uncomfortable stints, and

(21:03):
you know, there is the doctor for a good time out.
I mean, doctors have the same problem.

Speaker 7 (21:07):
Do you?

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Apparently dentists have it more Really statistically, I'd always absolutely
heard that.

Speaker 5 (21:13):
Yeah, listen, we have a voicemail that we'd love to
hear right now.

Speaker 8 (21:18):
Okay, Hey, what's up guys. Great show. This is my
first time actually listening to it, and it's awesome. I'm
definitely going to be listening much more often. And this
is also the first time I'm hearing about the dentist,
and just a quick question, with all of this evidence
stacking up against him, the letter to his daughter, these

(21:39):
opportunities to try to get other people to write suicide notes,
and ordering the poisons to be shipped to his office,
Like how did he think he was going to get
away with it? And like what is his excuse when
all of this evidence is like brought to light? What
is he saying? Yeah, thanks for letting me know.

Speaker 9 (21:56):
Hope to hear you guys.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
There by Now, great call, great call, Thank you so
much for calling.

Speaker 5 (22:01):
Yeah, he I mean what he thought prior Who knows
what the dentist was thinking, but what he's saying now
with his defense team is really the strategy seems to
be to put the now deceased wife Angela and say
that she was the one. She was emotionally manipulative, she
was mentally unstable, and.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
Her friend did testify that she was not manipulative and
not very best friends her very best friend.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, and listen, people break up, relationships, end marriages, don't
always work out. People fall in love with other people.
That's one thing, and fifty percent of the country allegedly
that happens due However, you killing your wife and you
think you're so above the law that you're going to
have cyanide in arsenic delivered to your office and that
no one's going to notice. Like this guy was a

(22:49):
courtnying with her favorite word, megalomaniac.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
Yes, that's what it's humans, right, it's hubris that the
two kids that he's bounding back. I think, yeah, he's
like that, he's on like this larger than life ego
that he's probably got, you know, to get him by.
And quite frankly, you know, he's basically saying, like Courtney
said that he's blaming the victim. Yeah, he's blaming there.

(23:13):
He's suicidal. She was suicidal, she tried this before. He's
blaming her. And I don't listen, there's too much going
against him. Another doctor that testified today, doctor Justin Bauer.
He's a forensic toxologist. He confirmed that blood levels when
they did the toxology that such rapid onset and high

(23:36):
blood levels suggests a second dose was administered while Angela
was in the hospital.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Like this guy, so he's basically killing his wife while
there are nurses, doctors and loved ones and phasians around
the doctor said, Yeah, he's like right out of a
bad movie. Right. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (23:54):
The prosecutors use that information in their very opening statement,
saying that you know, when this doctor walked into his
dying wise room, he didn't do it to save her life.
He went in that room to deliberately and intentionally end
her life with a fatal dose of cyanide.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Wow. And he doesn't think anyone's going to find out,
Like I agree with the talk. Pieper's like, who's not
going to find that out? You're in a hospital, But
I guess that's not what you're testing for, right, So
it just seems like cyanide sounds like it's from like
a wicked book.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Yeah, and like I you know, we asked Joseph Scott
Morgan yesterday, is cyanide in arsenic something that's standard and
it tucks, you know, after somebody dies, like from unknown causes?

Speaker 2 (24:35):
And he was like, no, maybe it will be now,
maybe it will maybe it will be now, Yeah it
should be.

Speaker 4 (24:41):
If it's not, I mean, it's really sad. I mean,
she these six kids, six of them, and the dentist
asked the daughter to create a deep fake AI video
of his wife asking for the poison can.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
You imagine to track his daughter in.

Speaker 5 (24:58):
I mean, we're going to continue on that and then
but ps, the wife, even as she was in the hospital,
she thought that something was going on with her husband
because she texted him I feel drug and her husband,
Doctor Craig said, just for the record, I didn't drug you.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
So what a sweetie pot what a guy? So keep
it here.

Speaker 5 (25:21):
After the commercial, we are continuing our look into doctor
James Craig, specifically the deep fake video, and then we
will have the Anna Walsh murder case and much more.
Keep it here True Crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
We're actually thinking of a name. So if you want
to weigh in about this deadly dentist eight eight eight
three one crime, we definitely want to hear from you,
or you could leave us a voice message, or you
can leave us a talk back on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaking of talkbacks, we have one now.

Speaker 10 (26:01):
Hey, true gram to not do you guys think it's
ethical or effective for a defense team to paint the
victims of crime's like Craig's wife as manipulative or unstable,
especially since she's not even around to defend herself. I'm
just curious to see what you guys think, thank you,
and I have a good.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
No, that is a good question, and I know I
do not think it's ethical, No, especially when he's fabricating
evidence to paint her as such. Right, But if there
was a legitimate history of her being suicidal and you know,
having these thoughts or being you know, manipulative, then I

(26:39):
think it would be one thing. But all this evidence
points to him doing this regardless even if she was
let's say for a moment she was manipulative and suicidal.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
Oh killer was cyanide?

Speaker 4 (26:52):
Yeah, like she still had cyanide in her body? Yeah
that he ordered? Yeah, go to therapy.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Right.

Speaker 4 (26:58):
So No, I don't think it's cool. I think it's
I think it's dirty work. I think it's victim shaming
and it's just not something I stand for, and I
don't like it.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
But I do think there's nuance to it. I do.

Speaker 5 (27:10):
Yeah, I'm actually gonna go ahead and disagree with you guys.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Oh from Yeah, I just love a victim shame. No, Yes,
but that's what I stand hard upon. Is that what
hill you're going to die on right now? What I
know that's not true?

Speaker 5 (27:25):
Yeah, what I do love is a defense attorney's you know,
it is their oath to defend their client by any
and all legal means necessary.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Are you going to quote that's true right now? No,
you're right.

Speaker 5 (27:39):
Listen, Kirk Nerdy, if you're listening, Stephanie's outed my crush
on you a couple of times.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
I'll just do it myself defense.

Speaker 6 (27:46):
I will not.

Speaker 5 (27:47):
But yes, I have learned this deeply from defense attorney
Kirk Nurmy, who did defend.

Speaker 4 (27:54):
And if I was being accused of something that I
don't do, I want them to blame everybody but me.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
You know what I mean. I get it, I got
But is it kind of a cheap trick for the juror?
And I'm teasing Courtney. Of course, nobody cares more about
victims than Courtney or I'm strong, so I tease. But
in reality, I don't think that really vibes for jurors either.
I think it also smells of a cheap trick. No,
and you know, this is the mother of your child's
six kids. This was a really loving religious family. They

(28:21):
had a lot of faith, and that just isn't gonna
isn't gonna fly unless they have something really big to
point to.

Speaker 5 (28:28):
Well, one thing, and I do not know if this
has come to bear, but I know that part of
the defense's strategy, and I believe this was also in
their opening statement was and I quote, you're going to
hear her being Angela the victim.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
You're going to hear her own.

Speaker 5 (28:44):
Daughter describe her that she was also that she was manipulative.
So whether it comes to bear, I'm just saying, yeah,
what this.

Speaker 11 (28:54):
Is, So is that true?

Speaker 2 (28:55):
One of the six kids is coming forward to say, yeah,
mom was manipulative, but okay, to what end?

Speaker 4 (29:04):
So therefore dad should kill her? So cy and I
just ended up in her body that he happened to.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Also order like, here's the deal. Okay, so the caller
and be true, this.

Speaker 5 (29:14):
Is absolutely And the caller asked a great question, you know, said,
is it ethical?

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Do I think it's in good taste? No, I think
it's horrible.

Speaker 5 (29:22):
I think if five percent of what this guy, the
dentist is on trial for, is true, he's.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
A deplorable human being.

Speaker 5 (29:31):
But I do think that legally, you do need to
use everything that is within your legal rights to defend
your client. And I think that's just the tenant of
our system.

Speaker 4 (29:42):
And I think that's a good point that's a very
fair point. I just don't like it when people who
aren't available to defend themselves because you know, of them
being murdered, our need to look like they're responsible for
their own death when it's just so clear to me
that that's not the case.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
But I know that's not how the system works. And
Body is right now, you are putting on this epic
of it's hot. It's like, what is happening right now? Yeah,
you can't see it, but body is doing a bun
real time. That's like a twist into a fold into
a high cute. Oh, it's like a little pony. It
looks so good. I've seen four hairstyles in the last

(30:20):
forty nine and very like all of it. It's hot here,
it's very hot. It's getting in here. Yeah, it's very fair.
It looks beautiful. Oh, thank you. So we should talk
about the other alleged murder plot with the dentist. Okay,
and we've got to come up with the name for
the dentist, the deadly dentist, the overtame killer, something, we
got it. We want to hear it. Come on, callers,

(30:41):
we need more deadly dentists something. Updates on grooming. We're
still kind of tackling that. That's a big topic. We're
going to change legislation, all of us together. And then
also a name for this dentist, Colleen for the dentist.
So while he was in jail awaiting his trial for
the murder of his wife, this doctor, doctor James or

(31:01):
James Craig, he offered twenty thousand dollars to a fellow
inmate his name is Nathaniel Harris, to kill the lead detective,
Detective Bobby Olsen on his wife's case, who Craig referred
to as the worst dirtiest detective. Additionally, he tried to

(31:23):
bribe the inmate Harris his ex wife, to recruit false
witnesses and plant fabricated suicide letters to support this defense
narrative that the wife was unstable and suicidal and on
edge and planned.

Speaker 5 (31:40):
Fast and loose with this guy playing cards while in prison.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
It's like, hey, if you know a guy him, like
what is going on?

Speaker 4 (31:50):
He tried to recruit his own daughter right to create
this deep fake AI video of his wife and the
voice talking about wanting to end it in asking for
the poison. And then he tried to get the lead
detective killed that was investigating the case.

Speaker 5 (32:09):
I mean, this is crazy, it is and I also
found my ethical line. So hold on, give us a
call eighty eight three to one crime. If you went
away and actually on that talk back of what's ethical
or not when you're defending someone. So we want to
hear your thoughts on that. And you actually just really
clarified something for me body just there because you said

(32:33):
something earlier, like you know, it's not right if you're
lying about the you know, the victim, and I agree
with you.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
So if an.

Speaker 5 (32:41):
Attorney was saying, hey, let's get together, let us make
a deep fake of this woman and make believe that
this victim, Angela, was trying to end her own.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Life, that's that's my ethical line. Like that's that legal.

Speaker 5 (32:58):
No, I wouldn't. No, oh, of course not. It has
not happened. It is part of what the dentist is
on trial for. But you know that's also a good line.
He is being charged with doing that or that's being
brought up.

Speaker 4 (33:11):
Right well, So now he's facing the murder charges of Angela,
his wife, and he also has been charged with solicitation
to commit first degree murder and perjury. So he is
facing charges for this murder, for higher plot and planting
of evident suicide notes from his wife.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
This guy thinks he's like in like the disease. Oh,
I know.

Speaker 4 (33:32):
The defense is saying basically that it's not credible. This
is an inmate for crying out loud. You can't trust
an inmate, right, So yeah, that's what they're saying. They're
saying that they're not credible, and we should you know,
the jurors should you know, not listen to that testimony.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
So interesting, Just as an interesting reminder, if you're a
defense attorney and your client says to you, I killed
my wife with arsenic, don't tell. They're not allowed to tell,
right because there it's client legal lawyer confidentiality stuff.

Speaker 7 (34:04):
Right.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
Is that accurate? However, they can't perpetuate that lie. So
if they know. I've learned this from Kirk Nurmi, Jodiarius's
defense attorney who's getting a lot of players. We should
do as pr Yeah, I mean he should be his
r manager. Kirk. If you happen to be listening, correct
us if we're wrong. But you've made quite the impact apparently.
I think if they you can't perpetuate a lie. You

(34:27):
can't commiserate the lie. You can't come together and create
a lie. And you know, so if somebody says, oh, yeah,
I was out looking at the stars, that's my alibi.
As a defense attorney, you have to sell it and
that's the story, and they're sticking to it, and it's
your job to defend them. However, in this case, this
defense attorney, well, he in no way has been accused

(34:49):
of corroborating or perpetuating any of the dentists lies. The
dirty dentist. Oh my god, does that sound soft launched?
Launching it softly? Heads.

Speaker 5 (35:00):
Let's say we have a caller on the line name Anna,
and we are going to ask them first, no pressure, Anna,
Hi Anna.

Speaker 6 (35:08):
Hello, Hi Anna, Hi, good evening. This is my first
time listening to the show, so thank you. This is
very interesting. I wanted to clarify one thing. So you
presented at the beginning that one of the witnesses was
a hospital physician and you specifically said that was a

(35:30):
pulmonologist who talked about the wife being likely bring dead
and the doctor dentist. The dentist's husband said, oh too bad.
I just want to clarify that usually pulmonologists and that's
probably the case in this case, are also critical care specialists.

(35:52):
So this was not just a puminologist, was a critical
care specialist, meaning that they are have the credential to
take care of a critically ill patients, dying patients, multiple issues.
And that's what credentials on that stand that he came
in not as a pulmonologist, the puminologist, as a lung doctor.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
So yeah, and that makes sense because it distinction and yeah,
and that makes it like when you look him up,
it says he's a pulmonologist, but that.

Speaker 4 (36:19):
Makes sense because the court did say he's an expert
on hospital medicine, so that does make sense that he
would be a critical care specialist of this magnitude. Thank
you so much for calling Anna. We really appreciate it.
And yeah, that's clarifying that you, thank you so much.
But that is that is a good clarification. If he's
a critical care specialist, he would have been treating her,

(36:40):
not just her lungs. But you know, he specializes the
polymonology according to his Lincoln and all that, so that
is interesting. Yeah, but I just can't get over the
fact that this guy did all this while.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
In jail with his daughter, and.

Speaker 4 (36:55):
He also tried to get a couple of other inmates
killed too while he was in there.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
I mean again, busy he was.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
He Yeah, I mean he is like basically a serial
killer in the making. He's trying to get all these people.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
He's like a mobster. He thinks he's on Goodfellas, right,
he thinks he's on Goodfellas. The store seems to our
phones are ringing with all kinds of bad dentist suggestions,
so we definitely want to hear more. Keep them coming,
Keep them coming, Courtney, where would you like to start with?

Speaker 5 (37:24):
Well, I would like to start with the correction because
I said alleged murderer, and I meant to say attempted
murderer when I was referring to the slender Man story.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
So that's I want to stay out nineteen times. So
it's very fair. Yeah's attempted.

Speaker 4 (37:41):
It's fair to assume she would have passed on. We're
going to get to that in a later segment. But
she did survive, so that's that's a blessing. Did you
guys see this true social post by Donald Trump today?

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Did Dom Brian Cooberger, the documentary Aaron Peacock Right now.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
I did not have this on a Bengal card that
the President in the United States of America would be
tweeting about Brian Coberger or true socialing, whatever you call it.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Hu, I did not have this summ I being a
card for twenty twenty five.

Speaker 4 (38:08):
So today Donald Trump posted on his true social social
media he posted this. Brian Coberger, who was responsible in
Idaho for the deaths of four wonderful young souls, has
made a plea bargain deal in order to avoid the
death penalty. These were vicious murders with so many questions
left unanswered. While life imprisonment is tough, it's certainly better

(38:32):
than receiving the death penalty. But before sentencing, I hope
the judge makes Coburger at a minimum explain why he
did these horrible murders. There are no explanations, there is
no nothing. People were shocked that he was able to
plea bargain, but the judge wouldn't make him explain what happened.

(38:54):
Thank you for the attention to this matter. Thank you
for your attention to this matter. Well listen, I agree.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
I agree, I totally agree with you. President Trump.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
I do agree. I do agree with him. I just
it's not possible, Like it's the judge. He could have
done that at Clee. Right, this could have been something
that they demanded prior to the plea being accepted by
the court. But it's a done deal. It's done. But
to end things in this little subject, you know, because
you want to be positive about stuff, right, maybe this

(39:26):
will bring attention to the case and you know, maybe
comfort the family, like I imagine that like Steve Consalvas and
you know, is probably feeling recognized. The President of the
United States is tweet is you know, tweeting excuse that word,
tweeting about your woes.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
That's got to make you feel a certain type of way.
It makes you feel heard. It makes you feel heard
and seen.

Speaker 4 (39:50):
And I think that that's probably important for them because
they probably don't feel heard and seen by the Leyta
County Prosecutor's office.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Right, yeah, I mean that's all I can really say.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
I mean, I do wish that they would have demanded
something like where's the murder weapon, where's all you know,
your bloody clothes, why did you do this? You know,
those kinds of things, But they didn't and now it's
I think it's too late.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
I don't think they can go back. I would say too, like, listen,
I couldn't agree with the president anymore. I mean awareness,
I wish the same for him to kind of come
clean and have to speak about other things and other news,
as we discussed in the first segment. Yeah, Stephanie, I
can't see you, and I don't like it. Oh yeah,

(40:37):
I adjusted my camera because I was sick of Oh,
they're right. Oh if I was just gonna see if
you missed me, we did. I was like, where is she?
I know she's talking here. It's not the same. It's
just not the same, you guys. I got to see
Stephanie smiling. But yeah, anyway, so hopefully, I mean Thursday,

(40:57):
This hearing is going to be a Thursday.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
We'll be following it very very closely, So stay with
us for Thursday. We'll be covering it probably all night
because it's a long day of court. So stay right
here at True Crime Tonight. We have a lot coming up.
Eighty eight to thirty one Crime, True Crime all the Time.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I
head up KAT Studios, where we make true crime podcasts
and documentaries, and I get to be here every single
night with Body move In and Courtney Armstrong and listen.
There's been a lot going on in the news, specifically
about this dentist, so we definitely want to hear from

(41:46):
you if you have any big names or thoughts about
this ongoing trial happening in Colorado. Also, later in the show,
we're going to be unpacking the slender Man case because
one of the accused is now getting released from a
psychiatric hospital, and there's some mixed feelings about that, I
might add, so before we go any further, we have
a talk back.

Speaker 8 (42:05):
Now, Hey, guys, this is Stephen in Phoenix, and this
is the first time I'm listening to your guys' show
and it is incredible and I'm upset.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
And I'm gonna be listening to it all the time.

Speaker 8 (42:17):
Just a questions about the mercees Bago case. One, do
they believe that they've sound now all the people involved
that they're going to be arresting or are they still
looking for for others out there? I know there's been
a couple more that have been accused and formally charged.
And then the other thing was as far as the
death penalty goes, like what factors are you used to

(42:40):
decide whether it's life or.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
The death penalty?

Speaker 6 (42:43):
So just some questions.

Speaker 8 (42:45):
Keep up the good work, guys.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
He guys are awesome by now.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
What a nice A nice? Nice? Yeah, so nice.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
So this is a case local to him, Stephen in Phoenix,
because this happened in Arizona.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
And god, those are really good questions.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
So about the suspect, first, there's two parts, the suspects
and the death penalty. I do think they believe they
have all the suspects. There's been three people arrested. The
Sheriff's office did say that there could be more, but
right now, I do believe they think they have everybody,
and they tied them all through of course, fingerprints in
the car and the credit card usage. Could Joe Young

(43:22):
he is the man that robbed Mercedes Vega back in
twenty twenty and that she was set to testify against.
He purchased plane tickets with his credit card for sincere
Patrick Kays and Gray, which are the other two suspects
linking him to their travel around that time. So I

(43:43):
do believe they think they have all the suspects, but
you never know. You never know what it's going to happen. Now,
as far as the death penalty is concerned, that's a
really really good question. Are they going to get capital murder?
So there's a couple of aggravating factors that happen with
murders that make people qualify.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
We're going to talk about that.

Speaker 5 (44:02):
So just to catch people up who may have missed
part of the show last night, Mercedes Vega is a
woman who was without going into too much detail, we
had a forensic expert, Joseph Scott Morgan on to discuss
all of the forensic details. But this poor woman, Mercedes Vega,
was tortured to death in deplorable ways, and it does

(44:24):
appear that it was to keep her from testifying about
a robbery several years prior.

Speaker 4 (44:32):
That's what it appears like. Well, I mean, I'm sure,
I'm sure we're going to find out more. But she
was set to testify against this kud Joe Young, and
he's the one that used to credit card, of course
to purchase those plane tickets that I talked about.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Because the other two suspects live in.

Speaker 4 (44:46):
Tennessee and he lives in Arizona, so I'm not sure
what the connection is there. But he's also like a
suspected drug ring leader, so he's got maybe some some connections,
you know.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
All out all over the place.

Speaker 4 (44:58):
But as far as the death penalty is concerned, there's
a lot of like aggravating factors, and some of them
are like, do they have a lot of prior serious offenses,
do they have a prior violent felony, you know those
kinds of things.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Was it a multiple murder?

Speaker 4 (45:13):
Well, none of those really kind of are a play here,
but there is especially there's a clause especially heinous, cruel
or depraved, which means like the murder involved torture, prolonged suffering,
or extreme brutality. Now we know that she was They
found blood outside of her car, so she was attacked initially,

(45:35):
don't know how, don't know what. She was also shot
in the arm. She had bleach poured down her throat,
and she was burned in the car, so that could
be considered sick torture, right, so that could be an
aggravating factor for the death penalty. We'll have to see
what happens. But that's a really great question. Thank you

(45:55):
so much, Steve. I think for the call. Please call
us again. That was really really good.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
I'm curious what you guys think. I mean, this is
not to have a big heavy discussion about discussion about
the death penalty. I'm so personally very conflicted about it,
and don't I'm not into the death penalty, but I
am into death row. You know, you see things like
Brian Coburger. I know this sounds like an oxymoron, but
like sometimes you see, you know, really hardened people who
have done horrible things and they get to have access

(46:22):
to Wi Fi and they get to, you know, go
for jogs and runs every day and have square meals
and you know, kind of participate in the world. And
then there's another side of it where you know, death
row has you know, such porrid conditions, and you know
there are cases like this one that are just so
sick and if accurate, that person doesn't get to have,

(46:45):
you know, access to a game boy. You know what
I mean, because that's what we're hearing. And I think
that's kind of the sentiment in the Brian Coburger case,
not to switch gears, but in the Idaho student murders,
you know, I think people are so angry about the
death sentence provision being taken off the table, maybe not
because they're so pro firing squad, but rather they kind

(47:07):
of knew in their hearts that likely would never happen,
but that the conditions that he would spend his life
in would be very difficult, given that their loved ones
didn't get that same right. And I feel that way
in Pike County, for you know, the surviving family members
in Piked in Ohio. We've worked on that case for
so long. It was such a vicious crime and the

(47:27):
idea that you know, people are like live in their lives,
not that prison is fun for anything, but varying degrees
and in death is final.

Speaker 4 (47:36):
And you know, we're hearing that although like in Brian
Coberger's case, that he's going to be in life in
prison without the possibility of prole and that he's waived
his right to appeal now, but he actually can appeal right, Like.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Surprise, it's kind of just like a he doesn't have
to applicate, right, And despite President Trump saying he would
like to have the answer, sure, he doesn't really have
And that is like the super bummer of it. So
he gets to have access to Wi Fi and email
and a television and he gets to watch and listen
to things reporting about him. I'm sure Brian Colberger got

(48:11):
a little bit of a kick out of it when
you know, oh my goodness, the president is tweeting about me.
You know, if you're a malignant, a megalomaniac the way
he likely is, he probably gets a kick out of it. Yeah.
You know, we debated this too, even with the doc
streaming on Peacock. Again, like his face is it's a
really really interesting artwork and I think they did a

(48:32):
great job on it, but we debated it is it
giving his face too much play?

Speaker 5 (48:38):
And by the way, the doc Stephanie is referring to
is the College Murders streaming on Peacock produced by Kat Studios,
and Stephanie and the team did yourself really and.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
By the way, wonderful job. I thought the Amazon documentary
was great also to say, you know, shout out. You know,
there's plenty of space out there different completely. Yep, they
had such great access. You know, they were their day
of essentially, but I thought it was really powerful, So
you know, just say shout out to the Amazon. Amazon team.
They both have a place.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
Yeah, right, Like I think your documentary was really great
for people new to the case who want a general
understanding of what happened and all the players involved and
getting to know, you know, the friends and family of
the victims and the victims themselves. And then the Amazon
documentary was kind of like the aftermath and healing and

(49:29):
you know how the families have been really affected and
I cried during bath.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
I thought it was really well done. Both really good.
Liz Garbus, I don't know her, we have not worked together,
but I'm sure I'm a fan her work on Is
It Gone in the Night? In the night that if
you haven't seen that, one's a good documentary. And she
I hope I'm not mistaken as the director of that.
And that's like one of the OG docs if you're

(49:56):
a true crime person who just follows this stuff closely.
It was really beauty done. So anyway, we did not
make the Amazon doc, but I thought it was really beautiful. Checked,
it really was. They're both great.

Speaker 5 (50:07):
They're both yes, absolutely and important and you do learn
so much, so much, Stephanie. To answer your question that
you raised about taking death penalty out of it, I
think maybe what you're saying is, should people who are
sentenced to more heinous crimes, for example, what Mercedes Vegas

(50:27):
alleged murderers are accused of, should there be a special
place for them in the prison system?

Speaker 6 (50:33):
Ye?

Speaker 5 (50:34):
What do you guys think? Eight of eight three one crime?
Because I don't know, there might be something too there
even with a page all day all night?

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Is that your nightmare?

Speaker 7 (50:43):
With that?

Speaker 2 (50:44):
No TV and eating cabbage all day all night? Nightmare? Yeah?
You know that's not fun. That's really hardcore. For me.
That would be really hard to not have access to
a television. What would you do without Bravo? For I
don't know, I would die. Honestly, it would be like
take me now, say me no. But seriously that would
be for me. For some it would be not having

(51:04):
access to a book or the library. Yes, or a
library for example, but like who gets like a hobby?
Now we I say this. I also believe in rehabilitation.
We also know if people get wrongfully convicted and have
been put to death, even for crimes they did not commit.
We know this firsthand. We've covered so many of these
cases closely. Also rehabilitation. Look at the Menandez brothers, they

(51:25):
like slaughtered their parents and apparently are like the most
upstanding citizens in all the land and our college graduates.
So I guess I, thank goodness, I don't run the world.

Speaker 4 (51:35):
But you know what this with the Menendez brothers, that
crime was so targeted to a specific set of people
that you know that allegedly we're abusing them and whatnot.
I don't think the Menindez brothers are like a danger
to society, right, they would not be in the right.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Do you know what it's like? Is not really? I
just like to say it though, Supermax. It's like one
of those prisons. I think like all of the who's
the one that the drug dealers from that took the
motorcycle like Courtney Arms during we know this, we know
this the super Max. So it's like these really intense prisons.
They're like extra intense. Often they they don't even have

(52:13):
an address. Like do you remember the guy we were
talking about that he killed his bunch of his wives Peterson,
not Scott Peterson, Like he's infamously in a Supermax prision
and escar boat. What is Oh my goodness, how do
I know my lords?

Speaker 6 (52:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Stay there? Yeah? And then they were like, no, no,
we're going to pitch you in a supermax.

Speaker 6 (52:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (52:36):
Terrorist drug traffickers, yeah, fye bombers exactly.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
Yeah, it's like very very bad. They get like two
hours a week of sunlight. You know, it's like underground
and like covered in bush and very not fine, No,
bravo all. Yes, we should know, we should be against cabbage,
but it's you know, a little overrated and a long

(53:01):
time of it. Can you call yourself Irish? You know,
as a half irishman, I like it sauted, but you
know it can be tough.

Speaker 5 (53:10):
But we should look into are they federally run? They
are very interesting because yeah, Stephanie, we were.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
I was deep in the SuperMac. So Brittany, you about it? No,
I don't I remember. I just Escobar? Is that the
drug Escobar? We're all the worst to drug. Wait a minute,
Paplo Escobar was killed in Colombia. Oh okay, what was
the other one that he like escaped with his motorcycle underground?
If you know, listen, this is not a fun game. However,

(53:37):
I know somebody out there speaks me. It's a very
famous drug lord, Chao elcho Jo, And listen. The talkbacks
are coming, so let's go to one right away.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Hi, ladies, I love your show.

Speaker 4 (53:52):
I just want to get your opinion on why you
think there has been increase in extremely violent young offenders
in the past few decad.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Oh great question. Wow that it is just in the
news now with the Paddle border in Maine. Remember we
thought he was a serial killer potentially at large, but
instead it was a seventeen year old just somebody on
family vacation with his folks at a campground. Can you imagine?

Speaker 4 (54:17):
And Sarah Sarah Grace Patrick, Oh right, Sarah Grayce kills
her her mom and stepwell, allegedly shoots her mom and
stepfather while they were sleeping in bed.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Oh my goodness. Yeah, why is this now?

Speaker 4 (54:31):
Is it that there's an increase or is it just
that we're hearing about it more Because like the twenty
four hour news.

Speaker 5 (54:35):
Cycle, it might be more awareness. I was going to say,
and we should want to absolutely remember to look into
this even this week or even with an expert. But
because I don't know statistically there is more or like
you said, it's just we're.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Hearing more because there is more needed.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
Yeah, Like there's instant news now, right, like you know
with Twitter and or X and you know, like Facebook
and social media and instagrams and tiktoks and youtubes and whatnot.
Are we just hearing about these more because people are
talking about them instantly or is there really an increase?

Speaker 2 (55:11):
I would bet how we have to just kind of
look into this. I'm curious because I fear that post
COVID and post isolation for so many for so long
without access to therapy or tools communication, I think that's
taken a toll on young adults. And I think the
uptick is something we're seeing maybe the kind of the

(55:33):
trails off now in some cases listen, not in all cases,
but I'd be curious. I bet you that tracks a
little bit and that there has in fact been an
increase in young person It could be both.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
It could be both an increase and an increase in chatter, right,
it could mean both things. Well, speaking of young people
in crime. Slender Man, you guys remember beware of the
Slenderman documentary.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
I never watched the documentary, but the actual imagery of
slow Man, which is very scary, and if you are
not familiar, it's like a tall, skinny man.

Speaker 4 (56:08):
Yeah, it was slender The Slenderman was like kind of
a creation from a popular website back in the early
two thousand. It's called something Awful, and it was, and
then it made its way over like the Creepy pasta
space where it's like scary storytelling, and this character Slenderman
was like this creepy tall I.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Don't know if he was like a monster or ghost
or deemon.

Speaker 5 (56:30):
He wore a blacks I just I'm reminding myself. He
wore a black suit and have a little like an
old timy hat.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
I don't know why he's so scary, but I assure
you it was a competition. I think there was a
competition where people had to take art and make it
kind of haunting and doing so in it's black and
white imagery. It's like a man in like what seems
like a business suit, you know, maybe back from the
nineteen twenties or something, and then they like stretched him

(56:59):
out black and white and a little bit grainy, and
essentially he becomes this sort of haunted fictional figure that
this young girl, or these two young girls believed. I
guess we're speaking to it, yeah right. It was like
some it was like a ghost store they were seeing things,
and this imagery was something that they couldn't escape because
they believed in the power of the full floor of Slenderman.

Speaker 4 (57:23):
Exactly so Morgan Guyser, this happened in twenty fourteen. By
the way, Morgan Geyser, she was institutionalized since twenty eighteen
after participating in the twenty fourteen Slenderman stabbing. She was
just granted conditional release. So Morgan was originally institutionalized in
twenty eighteen after pleaing guilty by reasons of mental illness

(57:46):
to attempt first degree intentional homicide. The attack occurred in
May of twenty fourteen when Morgan and another Anissa Weir,
both by the way, twelve years.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Old at the time. My goodness, what is that sixth grade?
Sixth grade? Oh, my unbelievableness.

Speaker 4 (58:04):
They lured their friend Patron Lutner into the woods and
they stabbed her nineteen times in an attempt to appease Slenderman. Now,
from what I remember, Morgan was the one that was
really emphatic that this was going to please Slenderman, and
like a niece, Anissa just kind of went along with it.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Is that, do you guys remember?

Speaker 4 (58:26):
Yeah, was like a ringleader, Morgan was the one that
was convinced they had to do this, and Anissa was
just kind of like she was you staph, like join
my cult.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
And she'd be like, yeah, okay, right, I would not
kill my friend nineteen times. I wouldn't say have nineteen times. However,
if there was a dummy in the group, I would
probably be the first one to go. So yes, she had.
It was like Morgan was like the bully or she
was like the reach of the matter, right, and she
went yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
She believed, she really did believe that Slenderman was real
and that she had to make sacrifice in order to
please him, and that so her family would stay protected
from what I remember, like it was almost like a
blood sacrifice so that her family would would stay protected.
So she got diagnosed with schizophrenia early on set schizophrenia,

(59:17):
and she pled guilty by reasons a mental incapacity, and
she was granted, you know, her stay. She was supposed
to be in a psychiatric hospital for forty years and
she's now getting a conditional release. How do we feel
about that?

Speaker 2 (59:33):
So there's two of them, just making sure that I'm
tracking him. There is two of them. Yeah, Anissa is
the one getting released. No, Morgan is getting Morgan the ringleader. Yes, oh,
she was the one that was had a psychotic break.
It was schizophrenic early onset, which is very rare, very serious.
In fact, getting those types of legal proceedings based on

(59:57):
a psychotic break or schizophrenia is very rare. I think
it's like one percent or something. You know, people are
always like I was crazy, I was insane. It's actually
very difficult to pretend to be insane. Despite her favorite movie,
Primal Fear, that was a good one, but that is
like usually that doesn't fly.

Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
So she was officially she was officially diagnosed too, by
the way, I mean, she did have like a severe
mental illness, like for real, like there's no faking it.
There's of course, legitimately, had she pled guilty, she was
found not criminally responsible because of her mental illness. And
she got this forty years in the psychiatric hospital, and

(01:00:35):
she listened to this. She reportedly had hallucinations from an
early age, so this was something that had been going
on in her life for quite some time. She was
found incompetent to stand trial, so she didn't even see trial.
Her condition was considered untreated and severe at the time
of the crime, contributing directly to her actions. Now the
other one, Anissa, she pled guilty to being party to

(01:00:58):
the attempted second degree intentional homicide with a dangerous weapon
in twenty seventeen, but just like Morgan, claiming she was
mentally ill and not responsible for actions. She was committed
to twenty five years in a mental hospital, was granted
release back in twenty twenty one after agreeing to live
with her father and to wear a DPS monitor.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
So they were both wow found Wow. Yeah. Keep in
mind this was an extremely violent crime. I mean they
were twelve year old girls who took a knife, lured
their young friend, also twelve years old, Peyton, lovely, beautiful
little girl. Thank god she survived. They lured her into
the woods and then they stabbed her nineteen times. Think

(01:01:40):
about this sixth grade. What were you guys doing in
sixth grade? Were you stabbing your best friend? So Peyton survives,
she crawls, She either dead like a fireman, crawl survives somehow,
by the grace of God, she survives, goes on likely
to live a very happy, healthy life. Thank goodness. Now
these two are going to be released. That's complicated stuff.

(01:02:02):
It's really complicated.

Speaker 5 (01:02:03):
We'd love to hear what you guys think actually about
specifically the Slenderman case which we're talking about, and or
people getting out earlier is particularly if you're a minor
who has created, who has committed a crime.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
So give us a call.

Speaker 5 (01:02:18):
We're at eight to a three on crime, or you
can always also leave us a talkback because these are
heady issues.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
And the talk back.

Speaker 5 (01:02:25):
It's really it's just the top right of the iHeart
app and you press the microphone, leave a message and
you're on the show. Right, So this is complicated, and
I mean twelve years old, that's also quite That really
is early first schizophrenia too.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
Well, and you know, I think it is early. I
mean because normally these things don't show and people until.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Early twenties.

Speaker 11 (01:02:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:52):
Serious, So for them to get actually physically like legitimately
diagnosed with the mental illness at that age is pretty frightening.
I just can't get over the fact that Peyton, the victim,
she crawled to a nearby path where a bicyclist found her,
and she had to she had to go through many surgeries,

(01:03:12):
and I looked her up before the show began, she
just to see how she was doing. She decided to
go into medicine. Of course she has a calling now, right,
she has a calling, which I mean, god, thank god
she survived. But you know, these what are the chances
that these two twelve year olds who both have mental
illnesses find each other?

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Right? It was like the perfect storm like that was
you know, one was the match and one was the
flame or vice versa, the wick the flame.

Speaker 4 (01:03:37):
Well, I think Morgan was the you know, the fire
starter used that. I think Morgan was the fire starter
and Anissa was just kind of the follower. She didn't
actually participate in the stabbing. She just kind of like
covered for her and like, well that's what I understand,
like was a lookout, you know, and helped lure. Yeah,
she might have afraid herself too, She might have she

(01:03:59):
might have been afraid her. But the thing is is
that so Anissa was given twenty five years and Morgan
was given forty and if we're talking about you know,
sentencing and you know things like that, which we've been
talking about a lot lately, they only served eight years.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Oh and then yet there are people on trijuana charges
that are looking at twenty years right.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
Now, put yourself in like Steve Gonsales's position, right, he is,
I mean, he's pretty certain that Brian Coberger, I'm not
ida host student murders is going to get the death penalty,
and quite frankly so is I right. And now all
of a sudden he's going to a big, fancy prison
for the rest of his life. Maybe now you know, like,

(01:04:43):
could he be out in fifteen years because you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Know time changed.

Speaker 4 (01:04:47):
Yes, I'm very and I think that Steve, you know,
for the consolveist's family as a whole, and Xana Kernodle's
father as well, I think that's their concern, and when
you read cases like this, it kind of makes sense
of why they're self set.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:05:04):
I think it's two different issues. I think what you're
saying is correct and valid and likely what a lot
of the victims' families are thinking, particularly Steve Gonsalvez, who
has been.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Vocal about it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:15):
I also think it is a conversation of whether or
not to grant concession to people who do crimes when
they are twelve years old.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
That's the way. That's a topic for another almost she
barely survived this inch by an inch of her life. Yeah,
that's listening.

Speaker 5 (01:05:33):
Stick around. We've got a lot more to dig into.
We're going to get into the details of the alleged
murder of a Massachusetts woman named Anna Walsh and find
out what is the connection between her and the Karen
Reid trial.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Keep it here True Crime Tonight. Welcome back to True
Crime Tonight on iHeart Radio. We're still talking true crime
all the time. I like that little punchy music. It's
like a little jazzy and slightly suspicious. I'm into it.

(01:06:08):
So listen. I'm Selfie Lieder here with Courtney Armstrong and
body move in and listen. We want to hear from you,
so please jump in. Eight eight eight three one crime.
We seem to be getting quite a few talkbacks, back
to back talkbacks. Can we jump to one right now?

Speaker 7 (01:06:24):
I'm Stephanie from Park Keell's Missouri. I was just wanting
you to look into the murder of Conrad Ashcraft, a
three year old and Park tells from Missouri that died
in May. I'f you could look into it for me,
I would appreciate it. You guys are great, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
I love that one. I'm not familiar with it. Either
making a note right now, the team Taha and Neva
are on it. Yeah. Time just a buzz right now.
By the way, Yeah, produce a Taha, give us a
little hello. We're trying to integrate producer Taha into the show.

(01:07:03):
He's wearing a headset right now as he speaks.

Speaker 11 (01:07:05):
Go for it to hello. Hello, I'm making a note
about this Conrad Ashcraft case.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Thank you.

Speaker 11 (01:07:10):
That is something I want to dig into. Thank you. O.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Shoot, did you forget that? Yes? Okay, good, Taha's on it.
That just means a random applause for producer Taha. That's
two nights in a row. Taha.

Speaker 11 (01:07:23):
You're not sick of me yet, are you?

Speaker 7 (01:07:25):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Listen Taha and I go way back. Do you use
Taha's intern You were Taha's intern ware? Yeah, show Sally
Jesse Yo.

Speaker 11 (01:07:35):
Those who don't know. The Red Glass.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Classes was my first job in television early.

Speaker 11 (01:07:41):
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Changed my I used to come home from school and
watch that same I was like, she must answer her
phones all day, and you know, I never understood that
there was like a production around it. But yeah, Taha
was like one of the first sights that I saw
in television.

Speaker 11 (01:07:57):
You were amazing then and still are.

Speaker 5 (01:08:02):
Road were you guys like for ferrying DNA test? Are
you the father test?

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Like as a matter of fact, yes, we would do
swabs parental like who's your daddy swaps? Yes, l detective
tests on a regular basis. Taha was known for his
particular part of the was like look at me now.
You know the segments when it's like I used to
be a nerd but now I'm fabulous, and like look
at his blow up and then they come back with
a glow up to show all the bullies how they

(01:08:30):
look now. That was like a Taha specialty. And then
there was like shared dragqu Am my first day, Yeah,
my mom is gangs for real? Like my first day,
there was like share do you believe? The Last to Love?
There was like a share like drag Queen Spectacular show.
And then it was like look at me now I

(01:08:51):
used to be I used to be a zero and
now I'm a hero.

Speaker 11 (01:08:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
Yeah that was our first and like we did amazing,
Yeah back to that show, back to back shows.

Speaker 11 (01:09:01):
For some reason, I also got attached to a lot
of like the Kupex plan. People don't know, don't ask,
that's a whole story.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
I have the greatest Taha stories. Actually we'll save that
for a differ. We need to have Tuesday story that
was like my first day was that one of his
little shenanigans with the flu Klux Klan and by the way,
and then would also be like remember frostbite. There would
be like a cover from like being in a life
of crime and now they would get in the community.

(01:09:30):
You guys want the whole Yeah, I did know was
two shows a day, six shows a week, and it
was like a very shoe string staff and a very
beloved team, and I just changed my life. And then
Tahan and I were on Temptation Island that's together, producers
on it.

Speaker 11 (01:09:49):
I can't anyway, Sorry, people talking about this case with
Brian that I'm dying to here about. Sorry, tell me about.

Speaker 12 (01:09:59):
Let's sorry, railed really serious so Brian Walsh and this
was actually we've had people write in and yesterday we had.

Speaker 5 (01:10:10):
A talk back from David from Massachusetts. It's been a
really contentious pre child discovery period and it continues going
on regarding the murder trial that's happening with Brian Walsh.
Brian Walsh is charged with murdering his wife Anna, and
this is in Cohassett, Massachusetts. Allegedly this happened on January first.

(01:10:32):
Back in twenty twenty three, prosecutors alleged that Brian Walsh
dismembered and disposed of his wife Angela's body after discovering.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
She planned to leave him.

Speaker 5 (01:10:44):
So there's a little bit more background to the case,
as there always is. But what a lot of people
have been talking about, and rightly so, is the fact
that the lead detective was Detective Proctor.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
Oh, from the Karen Reid case. Dun, dun, dun. We
should get a light detector for him. Oh, my lot,
Maybe we can ask.

Speaker 5 (01:11:11):
Yeah, So Brian Proctor was the lead investigator in the
Karen Reid trial. Karen read she was just acquitted in
the retrial of murdering her boyfriend John O'Keefe, who was
a Canton, Massachusetts police officer, which again she has been
acquitted and is walking free.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
But Detective Proctor played.

Speaker 5 (01:11:33):
A prominent role in the trial and the investigation as
lead investigator for sending.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
Inappropriate is not the word for.

Speaker 5 (01:11:42):
The kind of texts that he was engaged into and
about Karen Reid, including her looks, her accent and everything
in between, and also for his investigative practices themselves, which
you guys may well remember. Investigative included collecting evidence in
a solo cup and putting other evidence in.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
A literal grocery store trash bag, so fishing.

Speaker 5 (01:12:09):
Unbelievable. Yeah, completely unbelievable. But listen, it's it's leading to
it seems like a change. It's changing the course of
this trial because the defense is really digging into Proctor and.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
These investigative practices.

Speaker 4 (01:12:26):
That seriously, So any okay, so any case that Proctor
has ever worked on is going to be called into question,
now right.

Speaker 5 (01:12:37):
I don't think that's an outlier possibility.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Yeah, I al would think I was if I had
been tried on anything and Proctor was at the helm again. No, no,
just like, as a matter of fact, it's not even
a matter of shade. I would be, you know, I
would feel like there's a crack. I could probably get
an appeal and at least have things be relooked at. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:12:59):
So if you're not super conversant in the case. The victim,
Anna Wall, She was thirty nine years old. She was
last seen on New Year's Day of twenty twenty three.
That's an external reasons. Yeah, yes, absolutely, Oh my goodness.
She was seen on New Year's Day, January twenty twenty three.
I do want to look into how many people are

(01:13:20):
murdered actually on New Year's Day, because I feel like
I know a lot of cases.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
Yeah, that is like a particular hot button for you. Yeah,
let's do that again. It is true. I feel like
we say that a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:13:28):
Yeah, and this one is alleged, of course. But so
Anna was seen, her body has never been recovered. Yeah,
so prosecutors alleged, Okay, i'll prosecutors alleged that Brian Walsh
killed her at their home, that he dismembered his wife Anna,
and he did so using tools that he had purchased

(01:13:50):
beforehand and disposed of her remains in the dumpster. So
that's the Yeah, that's the broad strokes. And items that
tie into Anna include her jewelry, her clothing, her vaccination records.
All of these things were found in a dumpster near
Brian's mother's house. Brian Walsh is the accused murderer, and

(01:14:14):
so all the victim Anna's belongings were found in this dumpster,
alongside a hacksaw.

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
And one of those creepy suits.

Speaker 5 (01:14:22):
I don't say it correctly, tivex suits, like those white
zip up suits.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
And that suit was stained with her DNA. So it's
pretty hard to explain.

Speaker 4 (01:14:31):
So that's so, even though they don't have her body,
the hack saw the suit and the dumpsters, the vaccination cards,
vaccination cards, that's a weird.

Speaker 5 (01:14:42):
I think it was just her belongings. Like you may
have your birth certificate and then with your wallet or something.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
Vaccination cards.

Speaker 5 (01:14:51):
I mean, do you know what if you checked my
wallet now, I bet I still have mindsetting. You meansts
you know she carries a thick wallet?

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Body? Do you have a thick wallet? I don't think so. No,
I have a tiny one. I had a feeling on
the go.

Speaker 5 (01:15:05):
Stephanie bought me this wallet and I kept the note
in it from I still have it to this day.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
Anyway, I dig out her that twinning. I got it
in Italy. I'm Italian wallet. Yeah, I know the guy
who made it. I would I like to go back anyone.

Speaker 5 (01:15:21):
Listen, if anyone out there would like to join our conversation,
whether you want to talk about this case with Brian.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
Walsh or what is in your wallet?

Speaker 5 (01:15:30):
We're at eighty eight three to one crime and you
can reach us any time. So that's not all of
the evidence. Body, Okay, there's more.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:15:39):
So also, in addition to everything we talked about with
the DNA and the clothes, searches that Brian Walsh had
done on his son's iPad include hacksaw, best tool to
dismember or how long before a body starts a smell?
And how to dispose of one hundred and fifteen pound
woman's body.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
Wow, okay, so it's not looking great. Yeah, on his
son's iPad. That's so common, that's so, I mean, that
is actually surprisingly common. Courtney amstring again with coming in
with the kill with some unknown tidbits that do She's right,
is like an uptick in killings, and it is not

(01:16:19):
uncommon for a psychopathic parent to do weird Google searches
on their child's stuff. Well, even less nefarious.

Speaker 5 (01:16:28):
Stephanie is in like, there's been an allegit uptick in
divorces because if your family, if you're all linked up,
and this is for people who are doing you know,
good or bad behavior to keep in their mind a
lot of time, stuff that you may think that you
are sending to your private person on the side ends

(01:16:49):
up on your child's.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
Yeah, yeah, this is very common. How about the coldplay guy? Oh,
not to make a segue into a crime as this,
I don't know what to say. I mean, you're not alone.
Everybody seems to really, really, really be obsessed with these
couple of memes that have come out. I'm just dying,

(01:17:13):
like we've got to talk about this. Okay, when are
we going to do that? Sorry, back to the crime,
but I know, crime of the heart, a crime of
the heart. Yes, it's a crime of the heart, this
Walsh case. And listen it is.

Speaker 5 (01:17:26):
I know we've been a little sidetrackie, So sorry, that's
all me. No, it's all good. But yeah, So we
will be following this. The trial is to come, and
we will get back with more details and also continuing
to see how what's being now dubbed the Karen Reid
effect is indeed happening and will it literally change the

(01:17:48):
way that some cases are either prosecuted or defended.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
Wow, and listen, this night has flown by, but we
have a lot of stuff to be covering this week.
So just as a reminder, you're going to have to
stay with us night after night after night. So tomorrow
we're going to have the when we were talking about
the Gary Coleman suspicious interesting show on any about how
he had to take a lie detector test. The wife

(01:18:15):
is surviving wife maybe now ex wife. If you haven't
seen it, check it out, so we can like yap
about it tomorrow. But we're going to be discussing that
we actually have a special guest from the show. We'll
joining us from Line Detector Truth or Deception. Yes, yes,
in fact, the lie detector guy is going to be
with us producer my accuracy. He's not going to hook
us up to anything, is he. I hope he does.

(01:18:38):
You can do it on me. I volunteer. I volunteer
on behalf of all three of us. I'm into it.
And then also obviously the Brian Coberger hearing, this infamous
sentencing hearing is on Thursday. And look, that could go
a lot of different ways. We've heard this from many
of you guys too. He could throw us a wild

(01:18:58):
card despite with you know, Donald Trump is saying, listen,
we want answers, we want an allocation. We want to
know where the knife is, we want to know what
the plan was, We want to know why or is
he just going to stand there and nod his head
and just get to go away till the end of days.
So we'll obviously be covering that to left sides and

(01:19:20):
backwards and yeah, and then also you know, I think
we have a talk back now.

Speaker 9 (01:19:26):
Be good evening. My name is yahya YEA great question
for this evening is Stephen Stearns pled guilty today and
was sentenced today? So is it because the difference between
Florida Hall and Idaho Hall that Coburger pled guilty but

(01:19:46):
we have to wait till Wednesday? Do you hear the sentencing?

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
Good question? She's so smart.

Speaker 4 (01:19:52):
Yeah, I love the ye. I think I think it
means grandmother. I want to be a call me Greece, right, Yeah.
I grew up in a very Greek neighborhood. Yah yah
so okay. Stephen Stearns is the killer and abuser of
Madeleine Soto. Madeleine Soto went missing in February of twenty

(01:20:12):
twenty four. I followed this case and I am sorry
I remember it. And he was her stepfather and he
was abusing her and he killed her and he pled
guilty today. Well, actually he pled no contest which is interesting.
I don't even know what that means. So I wanted
to dig into this, but this all happened today and
I didn't have time supermax maybe, but he pled guilty

(01:20:35):
today and he was sentenced, And so Yahya's question is
a good one. Why does he get sentencing today when
we have to wait three or four days for you know,
a week or two for Brian Coberger sentencing. And quite frankly,
I don't know the answer to that question, but it
is an interesting one. Maybe because of victim impacts statements.
Now it's long been alleged that Madeleine Soto's mom, it's

(01:20:57):
allegedly knew about the abuse and did nothing, And so
maybe that's why there was no victim impact. She wasn't
even there today, so there could be a lot of
going on there. But yeah, yeah, I don't know the
answer to that question, but we can certainly find out
and answer that.

Speaker 11 (01:21:11):
All.

Speaker 2 (01:21:11):
Yeah, let's answer that tomorrow because that's a great question
and what a sicko. And again this is another example.
If you're going to kill your kid and admit to it,
whether it's no contest or I'm guilty, whatever the verbiage is,
there should be a certain place in the contention center
that is no fun and games put it that way.

Speaker 4 (01:21:30):
Yeah, I get really upset when people, you know, children
or like the elderly who can't like tature themselves like
that's why I'm so hopped up with the thing I
don't under age. Yeah, don't get it started.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
Well, we're going to be following that all very closely
tomorrow as well, So listen. Breaking news all the time here.
But thank you for the wonderful talkbacks and the messages.
Please keep them coming, and we look forward to talking
to you tomorrow. So if you want to just call
in and be with us live, do so anytime. It's
been a great night. Listen. This is true crime tonight,

(01:22:02):
True crime all the time. Good night, Stay safe,