Bryan Kohberger Agrees to Plead GUILTY, and More Jury Trouble in Diddy Trial – The Fate of Juror No. 25

BREAKING: Bryan Kohberger, the suspect accused of murdering Idaho college students Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin, has agreed to plead guilty. Former homicide prosecutor Jarrett Ferentino joins to break down what Wednesday's hearing could look like. Hours into deliberations, the jury foreperson passed a note to the judge regarding a "concern" about Juror No. 25 not following Your Honor's instructions. Tune in for all the details.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the host, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It is Monday, June thirtieth, and
we have a stack night of headlines. It's been an
explosive day in the press. If you haven't been following
along today, there's been some issues with a juror that
is deliberating in Diddy's trial, and maybe more significantly, a

(00:40):
huge explosive break in the Idaho murders. We've been tracking
this case, as you all know, closely and reporting on
it regularly here on the show. Candidly, we're all a
little shook at this exact moment. It's it's pretty earth shattering.
Brian Coberger, the accused who has been accused of murdering

(01:00):
for college students at the University of Idaho, has claimed
his innocence. You'll remember as recently as last week he
was looking to get a continuance on his trial, which
is scheduled to happen in August, and that was denied
and he has pled. He has admitted to killing four
students that he seemingly has no connection to. He was

(01:23):
a PhD student studying criminology and apparently took the time
to possibly stock and murder for incredible humans and went
back to school and graded some papers after and went
home for the holidays and was picked up by his
beloved father, who drove through multiple states to get him

(01:44):
just in time for Thanksgiving. And we've done the podcast.
We did two seasons of that, and we're currently making
the documentary for Peacock. As recently as today we were
delivering the master Not to get too inside baseball on it,
but the spirit of it has been to make sure
that we are treating this case fairly and not convicting

(02:04):
anybody in the press. We've you know, turned it on
ourselves to make sure that the media wasn't creating a
frenzy so that this person could have a fair trial
and that justice could be served. And instead, this guy
has decided that he is going to take accountability so
that he can live, and his death sentence provisions appear
to be removed, and he will be in court on Wednesday,

(02:26):
and apparently we'll have to kind of face the music.
But it seems as though this riddle has been solved
and the boogeyman is Brian Coburger according to him, and
we are we're so sad, so sad. I don't even
know where to start with it. I know we've all
been talking all day. It's been real time developments happening. Obviously,

(02:49):
we'll be following this every day and you know they're
on Wednesday, et cetera. But the lead is, this is
a person who had a full life. He was loved,
he was raised by parents that took very good care
of him by all accounts. We have spoken to so
many people that we took out of the podcast, that
we took out of the documentary because we didn't want
to lead. We didn't want to interrupt, God forbid, the trial.

(03:10):
We didn't want to cause more pain for the victims'
families who are who are bracing for this horrible unpack
of this nightmare they've lived for two and a half years.
And instead this clown just decides today on some random Monday,
that h the gig is up. I've wasted everybody's time,
all of Idaho's resources. I've been in the press, maybe

(03:30):
enjoying it every step of the way, and every single
thing that we thought was possibly maybe not true or
we maybe hoped for the sake of humanity wasn't true.
That photograph that he took allegedly after the murders was real.
This guy took a photo of himself in a bathroom
after murdering four people, called mom and dad or somebody
in his family for hours or close to it, and

(03:51):
now has decided he doesn't want to die. And now
we get to all unpack it from here. And I
don't even know what to say.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Court.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Well, we're also close to it. Yeah we are.

Speaker 4 (04:03):
We're all, you know, invested in this case. And you know,
we were just talking about what is the fascination with
this case?

Speaker 2 (04:08):
What is it about this case?

Speaker 4 (04:11):
And you know, it's so hard to imagine that this
guy is this dork. Let's be honest.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
You know, the gloves are off. We are not protecting
him anymore. That is like, the gloves are off.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
This dork, you know, is capable of this kind of madness.
And if he's capable of doing it to four people,
who's capable of doing it to us. It's it's hard
to it's hard to go there. But I have to say,
I'm not shocked. I'm a little surprised that this happened.
But there was a May fifteenth hearing and the judge
did say that the best offer would have to be

(04:44):
done at the end of.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
July or June early July.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
And here we are the last day of June, and
apparently what happened was the state or I'm sorry, the
defense approached the state about a plea, and last night
the state went to the defense and said, here's the offer,
and it was accepted. I don't know if there's any
negotiations or not. We don't have any of those details.
But we are going to be talking to a lawyer
later who's going to come on and he.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Is a prosecutor.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
He's prosecuted many cases, and hopefully we'll be able to
unpack this with us. But apparently, yeah, he's accepted the
plea offer. He will have to plead guilty, he will
not be eligible for parole. He'll probably get four life
sentences without the possibility for parole, and there will be
no appeals.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Throw We don't say the key through that way.

Speaker 5 (05:29):
That's important, the fact that he will waive his right
to appeals because at least it won't be protracted. If
there's any silver lining whatsoever that his day in court
will know.

Speaker 4 (05:42):
Yeah, And we don't know, like I would like to
know if if he has to provide something to you know,
the state, that state can pass on to the family,
you know, or whatever to give them any kind of reason,
And not that that's going to make anything better. Those
those lovely kids are gone, you know, those young adults
with their whole life ahead of them, are gone forever.

(06:03):
And I don't know if it would be helpful to
the family to know why, But I can imagine that
they often wonder why.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well, why, because how do we all keep ourselves safe?
Which is why it's so important that we're talking about it.
Because again, we don't think the boogeyman is the guy
that's standing behind you online at the pharmacy. You don't
think the boogeyman is the guy sitting next to you. Yeah,
the dorky PhD student who's you know, has an issue
with women or it doesn't really feel confident enough to

(06:32):
make friends easily. We've heard so many reports and I
feel like now the gloves can come off a little bit,
given that he is now confessing to this mess. You know,
we heard reports and you know, Courtney, you were, you know,
right there with it from day one. Think about it.
This is a guy who was getting his PhD. His dad,
I think, went bankrupt putting him through school when they

(06:52):
moved him into school post COVID, post a drug addiction
that he kicked, and then he slimmed down and got
healthy and got his schoolwork done and he got into
a PhD program that is nothing to shake a stick at.
And we had heard reports that, you know, he had
some issues in high school, all of which we've been
so careful not to share because again, we don't want
to try anybody in the media. We've asked ourselves this

(07:15):
day in and day out, in fact, and that's just
in the last week alone, we've lost sleep just over
the fact that there's so much coverage around this case.
And by the way, it wasn't looking great, even for
a sucker like me who was holding out some hope
for humanity, that this doesn't happen anymore, that stranger danger
isn't necessarily your thing, or some weirdo at the light

(07:35):
staring into your house for no real reason other than
a thrill kill. Remember this was a major overkill like
the likes of which is very rare, and this trial
was one of the most anticipated trials because we needed
to understand better why, how, how could this be? Why
would anybody just wake up on a random day and
decide to murder four people that he has no obvious
connection to. There's no revenge, there was no like money

(07:57):
at large, there was no like shenanigans. These were epic
human beings. Not that murder is ever justified, obviously, but
we're talking senseless in an overkill. Ethan Shapin was possibly decapitated.
This guy used a Rambo knife and man to man
combat like a video game, and walked away somehow and

(08:19):
then went about his life and apparently was a real
joy in the classroom in the days after.

Speaker 5 (08:23):
I mean, evil in this world exists. I do. That's
just a fact that I contend with and I do
believe is true. And I think you know, part of
what you and everyone and we all are struggling with
is to try and make sense. Like you were saying, Stephanie,
what's the why. There's no reason applied to madness?

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Right?

Speaker 5 (08:45):
You can't, that's you can't reason.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
You can't.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
We're not mad.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
We can't understand it, but like, imagine for a moment
that and again this is admittedly I'm close to this.
We're all too close to it and have been following
it too closely and are kind of in the rabbit
hole a little bit too deep. But again, the walls
were bleeding in this house. There was so much blood.
This bloodshed was unfathomable. And this clown leaves, gets back

(09:13):
in his car, dips, goes to school, goes home for
the holiday, faces his loving parents and his beloved sisters,
both of whom who have since lost their jobs because
of their notorious accused brother. Mom and dad. Mom was
like working for the school. Dad was a janitor and
like gave everything he had to make Brian have a
great education. And he just leaves them holding the bag.

(09:37):
And four family members, you know, four victims and their families. Rather,
that is generational trauma that is going to be passed
down and shared. It's like the ripple effect of this
kind of madness can't be understated. And I'm mad.

Speaker 5 (09:53):
I don't know why I'm so up insanity. Here's a
little bit of what we do know and stuff. Everyone,
the rage you are feeling and that we all are
feeling is because it's rage inducing. Just a little bit
of knowledge. The families of the victims they met with
the prosecutors last week, which I was not aware of
until today, and that was to discuss the possibility of

(10:15):
a plea deal. And in a letter that the prosecution
sent to the families and it was signed by Bill Thompson,
according to new sources, he said that they weighed heavily
the family in their decision making quote, we cannot fathom
the toll that this has taken on your family. This
resolution is our sincere attempt to seek justice for your family.

(10:38):
This agreement ensures that the defendant will be convicted, will
spend the rest of his life in prison, and will
not be able to put you and the other families
through the uncertainty of decades of post conviction appeals.

Speaker 4 (10:50):
And that's something that that's something to be considered. I mean,
with a death penalty case, there's appeal after appeal after appeal,
and as a family member of a victim, you're going
to want to go to those appeals. That's and you're
gonna have to be reliving this over and over and
over again. And you know, Honestly, I'm sure they relive
it every day right now. You know, they've been living
and they've been living in suspended animation for the last

(11:11):
two and a half years, right and waiting for this,
and you know, I just listen. I think, you know,
this was a random Monday. I agree with you, Stephanie.
But I do think that there's a lot behind the
scenes that obviously were not privy to. I do kind
of think that, you know, his family, Brian Coberger's family,
his mom, his dad, his sisters. I'm not sure were

(11:33):
possibly pleading with him to you know, not put them
through this because you know, if you write, if you know,
I I think that the sister called the FBI and
made a tip, you know, to them about Brian Coberger.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, he said that. You've said that since day one, honestly,
you think five since so long, and we haven't been
able to say that out loud because we didn't. Now
we can say whatever I said it out loud. I
haven't know but that, but we couldn't even put it
in the documentary. We left it out of the podcast
because we didn't want to interrupt.

Speaker 5 (12:01):
Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
It's a lot.

Speaker 4 (12:02):
I mean, there's a lot of different reasons. But you know, Steve,
Steve has been in the media talking and he's been
alluding to somebody calling the FBI. And I've always suspected
that the trip the dad took to you know, to
go get him was not planned and that it was
like an emergency.

Speaker 5 (12:18):
Yeah, well, emergency is the right word. Since coming up,
we will continue unpacking the Coburger's shocking plea deal. We
also do have the latest and the pdy trial and
one of his sons facing legal troubles, and do join
the conversation. We're at eight to day three one Crime.
We want to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Big day in the news, breaking stories that are explosive.
We're going to be covering the Didty trial and some
issues potentially with a juror as deliberations are about to begin.
But on that because first there's been an explosive development
in the Idaho college murders. I'm Stephanie Leidecker, I head
of KT Studios, where we make true crime podcasts and documentaries,

(13:09):
and I get to do that with true crime analyst
and host Body move In and true crime producer and
host Courtney Armstrong. We have been really in the trenches
on this case since day one, and it's got us
a little shattered in the heart space. On the one hand,
there's an answer, and on the other looking back, I
am for sure the dumbest in the room right now
and feel a little more hYP dope because every day

(13:30):
we ask ourselves, well, what if? What if? Because their
info was mounting against him, but there was always a
counter argument to it. And you know, listen, watch the doc,
check out the podcast. It's not a shameless plug. It's
just because we don't have the time here to unpack
every little detail that we do in those and we
really we want to hear from you also, so please
jump in. I know you have opinions, So eight eight

(13:52):
eight three one crime call us, leave us a talkback.
Download the app on the iHeartRadio app. It's free. Press
the button in the right hand corner. You can leave
us a message boom you're on the show, or you
can hit us up on our socials at True Crime
Tonight's Show on TikTok and Instagram, and you could also
just try us at True Crime Tonight on Facebook. And
we want to hear like this doesn't make any sense, Jarrett,

(14:13):
who we love he's also in the documentary. He's excellent,
is an outstanding trial attorney. He's tried some of these
large cases and knows how the prosecution thinks, right, so
he's going to be joining us to really unpack some
of these details, probably far less emotionally if you haven't
been following that case closely. The accused, Brian Coberger, who

(14:35):
was a PhD student studying criminology, was accused of murdering
for co eds at the University of Idaho back in
twenty twenty two. He has pled not guilty and today
has decided to plea. He is not going to be
facing the death sentence. You'll remember he was looking at
a death sentence potentially in front of a firing squad,

(14:57):
and today, seemingly, very unceremoniously, he has confessed and has
pled guilty to all four counts of murder. And there's
a big hearing on Wednesday, and we'll be there following
it so closely where he will have to face a
judge and the media and hopefully family members can get
there in time to see this happen, because again, this

(15:21):
has been such an exhaust potentially on the system. We
made the podcast the Idaho massacre on iHeart two seasons.
Courtney is the voice of it and bodies been on it,
and we're also making the documentary based on the podcast
for Peacock. They've been extraordinary partners. The spirit of that
has been to really unpack the did he didn't he?

(15:43):
The guilty not guilty very balanced look at this particular case.
Because there's been so much coverage and so much misinformation,
we really wanted to curate it prior to the trial.
And you know, honestly, it's pretty unbelievable that this guy
is just like, Yeah, I did it. I took a
Rambo knife and I gutted for human beings and then

(16:03):
what about and denied it.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
We don't know that he confessed, right like, we know
that he's going to plead guilty as part of the arrangement,
but we don't know what that is going to detail,
right We don't know if there's going to be I
would have, I would suspect, And this is going to
be something that I would like to ask Jarrett when
he comes on. Is part of the plea deal? Does
he think as a former prosecutor that prosecuted these kinds

(16:26):
of cases, is there any part of this that he
can foresee where there's no kind of confession included. I
can't imagine that there's not going to be a confession.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
I just can't saving his own life right, maybe it's possible.
And by the way, I just like kind of have
blacked out. I feel a little emotionally charged. Admittedly speaking,
our hearts go out to the victims' families. Let's just
start there for a hot And we've.

Speaker 4 (16:49):
Heard from the Gonsalves family, Kaylee's dad specifically, and I
think Kaylee's sister too, about this, and they are very
displeased with this.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
They are very displeased with this.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
In fact, I can quote them as saying, the Layta
County Prosecutor's office treatment of our family during this process
is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. You know, they
really feel they should be more consulted in this decision,
or I'm not necessarily consulted, but their feelings about this
should be, you know, taken under advisement. And you know,

(17:20):
they're dealing with four families, They're dealing with four who
might feel the same or might not. You know, this
is all just very very very sad.

Speaker 5 (17:29):
Yeah, and the Gonzalez family has been vocal throughout and
as you said body right now as well, I will
just say we've spoken to so many officers of the
law over the course of producing documentaries and podcasts, and
it's really hard a lot of times for good reasons,
to help further an investigation. The families can't get all

(17:51):
of the information that they want in the time that's allocated,
and it can be an impossibility, as you said, while
trying to do with the investigation, to satiate for families
to try and make sense of the senseless. So I
just say that to say, of course, I think the victims'
families don't have much else, nowhere else to go with

(18:13):
their grief.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
So and can you blame them? And yes, to your point,
not all of the family members really were pro the
death sentence, right, the death penalty.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
Well, initially I don't know how they feel now, but
initially they weren't. I know Xana's family is very upset,
I know Kaylee's family is very upset, but I'm not
sure about Maddie and Ethan's family. I know initially Ethan's
family was, you know, not really excited about the possibility
of the death penalty.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
I just don't know where they stand today.

Speaker 4 (18:44):
And you know it's their right to keep that to
themselves if they want to.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
And just to add to that, you know, we keep,
you know, glossing over their names. Madison Mogan and Kaylee
Gonzalvez are two of the victims. If you recognize that
iconic photo of them wearing their shirts in front of
the house, they're the two blonde ones and they were
best friends from childhood. They grew up like sisters and
died together in the most hideous way. And then Xaner

(19:10):
Kernodle and Ethan Shapin they were a couple, and Ethan's
siblings he was a triplet, still attend the school. So again,
grief beyond words, Grief beyond words.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
Yeah, you're listening to True Crime tonight. I am body
Movin and I am joined by Stephanie Leidecker and Courtney Armstrong,
and we're right in the middle of talking about this
explosive news in the Moscow case where suspect Brian Colberger
has accepted a plea deal. If you have any questions
or you know you want to make a comment, give
us a call at eighty eight thirty one crime or

(19:42):
use the talk box on the iHeartRadio app. You know,
I just listen. I think I feel a little bit differently.
I'm sad for the families, no doubt, but I'm not surprised.
You know, the death penalty is used as a negotiation tool.
I read I've been talking about this for about a year.
I read this study on the death penalty specifically in Idaho, Okay.

(20:05):
And from two thousand and two to two thousand and
nineteen eight, they analyzed all the murder cases in Idaho, Okay.
And there were one hundred and fifty five murder cases
in that almost twenty year span, and of those cases,
one hundred and fifty five qualified for the death penalty. Okay,
one hundred and fifty five of those murders qualified for
the death penalty. Of those murders that qualified, the state

(20:28):
pursued thirty two cases. Okay, so that's only, like, you know, eight,
It's like a really small, really small amount.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
I've got the stats. I just need to pull them up.

Speaker 4 (20:37):
But in so twenty two went to to went, I'm sorry,
got that we're going to get the death penalty. I
got all discombobulated. One hundred and fifty fives qualified for
the death penalty. Thirty two were filed, so they proceeded
with thirty two of those thirty two cases, twenty three
plied over seventy percent of cases that get the death

(20:58):
penalty in Idaho.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Plead. Yeah, it gets real. But we've been paying for
his vegan meals behind bars this entire time. The family
has been like subjected to more gruesome details. I'm getting high,
but you would.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
But here's the thing that doesn't change. Even if he
pled guilty day one, he would still we would still
be paying for those vegan.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Mills, with the vegan meals. I don't know why that
irks me so badly. I know that, you know, Jared
Sarantino is going to weigh in on this and like
keep us on this straight and narrow, because he's so
smart with this stuff. And I'm so curious, you know,
if we can just bring him in right now to
join us, Tombo, because Jarrett, are you are you there?

Speaker 6 (21:32):
I'm here too, So I'm feeling a little numb tonight,
like all three of you, I've been covering this very invested,
have been following it.

Speaker 7 (21:43):
You know, I've done death penalty cases. I pursued death
penalty all the way and I've pled them out. So
I'm in a unique position here and I feel exactly
like I did on those nights where we took it
off the table and took a plate. Yeah, and here's
the thing. All though everyone is shocked and numb, this

(22:03):
is a good day. I mean, I know what happened,
and he's going to enter a guilty plea and he's
going to spend the rest of us. I used to
say this, and it applies here. Brian Kohlberger is not
going to die at the hands of the state. He's
going to die in the hands of the state. And
that is a distinction to a lot of people. But

(22:23):
the reality is he's never going to be a free
man again because of what he did.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
Right.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
That's a really good, really good point, And maybe that's
why I'm kind of like, well, you know, I don't
feel sad about this, and I know I'm in the minority,
and that's okay. I'm okay with that because this doesn't
change anything. He's still going to go to prison, Like
it's he's still going to be homes so horrible too.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
In prison, it's like not fun from what I'm told Jared,
and I think you could report. It's like no easy
place to be.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
So Jared, can you can you tell us what happens next?
We know on Wednesday that there's going to be the plea,
the change of plea.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Hearing, right right?

Speaker 7 (23:02):
Has not he has not entered his plea. What has
happened now? First of all, I don't understand why Bill
Thompson sent a letter to the victims. Why not call them?
You know, I don't get that. I've had that conversation
with many families. I don't get why we're sending letters.
But besides that, here's what happened on Wednesday. Colberger has

(23:23):
entered a formal plea. If not guilty, he has a
change of plea hearing where he will come before the
judge and not let his lawyers speak, this time, in
his own voice, will say, your honor, I change my
plea to guilty. Then there will be likely another hearing
date set where he will formally enter that plea if
he doesn't do it Wednesday, and the victims and their

(23:44):
families will have the opportunity to address him before sentence
is imposed. That's what's going to happen here. So sentence
is basically written in stone here it's four consecutive life
sentences plus ten for the burglary. But the families will
be given the chance to confront him.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
Wow, well, stick around. Jared's going to stick with us.
We're going to continue this conversation. Please give us a
call at eight eight eight thirty one Crime if you
have any questions for Jared. This is an opportunity of
a lifetime. Stick right here eight eight eight thirty one Crime,
stick right here in true crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
This big development in the Brian Coburger, Idaho murder trial
that is not going to be if you haven't been
following this case. Brian Coburger has been accused. He's also
said he was innocent of man blamed other people and
blamed other people, caused chaos and grief for two and
a half years, and he's been accused of murdering four

(24:44):
college co eds in a massive overkill on November thirteenth,
twenty twenty two, and today, in an unexpected twist of events,
he has said he's guilty and his taking a plead
deal so he does not have to face the death sentence. Stephanieleidecker, I,
head of KT Studios and I'm here with Body move
In and Courtney Armstrong, both of which have been following

(25:07):
this case from day one. We make the podcast The
Idaho Massacre, two seasons of that, and we're literally handing
in the documentary to Peacock, also based on the same tragedy.
Jarrett Farentino, who is also in the documentary, is an
extraordinary trial attorney. He has covered some of these largest
cases in the state of Pennsylvania, which is also the

(25:28):
state that the accused Brian Coberger is from. He's also
the host of True Crime Boss because he is the
True Crime Boss, and that podcast is excellent, as is
your YouTube channel. And Jarrett, thank you for always breaking
this down to us in Layman's terms and kind of
bringing us into the beehive of what happens in these moments.
As a prosecutor, you've lived it in such big ways

(25:51):
and we know you know this case so closely. Thank
you for a joining us, but also for breaking it down.
I don't know why we're I think I just feel
duped because somewhere in the back of my heart, I
was I don't know what boogeyman I thought was going
to show up with a mask on and somehow that
would make sense. I just didn't believe that this college
student would be that messy PhD student would be that

(26:11):
messy and make such baseline errors. And it turns out
that joke has been on me and all of us
who have been following this very closely, and we're heartbroken
for the families.

Speaker 5 (26:20):
So, Jared, Jared, I have a specific question on something
you had mentioned before the break, So the plea. We
know that the plea has been accepted by Coburger and
the defense and that in two days there will be
a hearing, and you said that we will hear from Coburger.
So is that a matter if I understood correctly, is

(26:41):
it a matter of law if you're accepting a plea
deal that you have to speak and can't have your attorney.

Speaker 7 (26:47):
Yes, you have to go before the judge under oath
and say that you are doing this voluntarily. You recognize
that you have the right to trial, especially case of
this magnitude where it has to be knowing and voluntary.
And you know there's a colloquy that occurs between the
judge and the defendant. And here's why this happens. And

(27:07):
a calloqui is just a list of questions, and we've
prepared them ourselves. The judges get them. The lawyers will
ensure that Brian Kolberger answers very pointed questions. I've had
the opportunity. You're not going to come be able to
come back and file an appeal and say he didn't
have enough time to do an investigation. You acknowledge that
you had the right to trial all of these things

(27:28):
under oath. Brian Colberger is going to have to admit
and acknowledge voluntarily, and that is critical to the plea
because you're building a record to protect that plea down
the road in the event he tries to file an appeal,
which he's waiving the ninety nine point nine percent of
his appellate rights at this point as well.

Speaker 5 (27:45):
And Jared on top of that, does Coburger or anyone
who is in his position, do they need to or
is it customary for them to give details of X
happened and then why happened? Or are they under no
obligation to explain the events of the night.

Speaker 7 (28:01):
Well, three likely things could happen, okay. Number one, the
prosecutor will read a factional, a factual basis for the crimes.
He'll go into Bill Thompson would read on November thirteen,
twenty twenty two, you know, Brian Colberger into the home,
and we all know what happened. And then Colberger could admit, yes,
that's what happened. That's what I did. Okay. But in

(28:21):
a case like this, if I was the prosecutor, I
would want an elocution. I would want Coberger to say
affirmatively I killed Xana, Maddie, Ethan and Kayley. I want
to hear him say it. I don't just want him
say to say yes. And that could be part of
the plea agreement.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
And that would happen at sentencing, like right before sentencing.

Speaker 7 (28:40):
Right, well, it would happen when he's It could happen
when he's entering the plea. Yes, oh it could. It could,
And it could happen in response to the victim's families.
He could apologize for them. He could acknowledge that he
did it. We may never know why. And I think
some of the things I'm seeing online, they're asking is
it an Alfred plea? You know, that's the kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
You know, why do people think that? What does that mean?

Speaker 7 (29:02):
So that that's the name of the case out of
North Carolina from nineteen seventy. The Supreme Court basically said
a guilty tlea could be accepted if a defendant doesn't
admit the criminal act as long as they're saying, I
acknowledge there's enough evidence against me, and I'm going to
likely be convicted.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
You can spends three got out.

Speaker 7 (29:21):
It's exactly how they got out. But those now, if
I'm the prosecutor in this case, if I'm Bill Thompson,
I don't accept an outfits. I'm not taking death off
the table until you bring some closure and some accountability
to these families.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Percent I'm so curious too, it was there a big
ticket moment or something that maybe happened. And listen. If
you're just joining us, you're listening to true Crime tonight.
We want to hear from you. Eight eight eight three
one crime. Please jump in join the conversation. We're talking
about the recent developments. The accused, Brian Coberger, who was
really facing the trial of our time this summer, has

(29:59):
now pled guilty to murdering for college co eds Madison Mogan,
Kayleie Gonzalvez, Zana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin and Madison Mogen
and their families have been ripped apart. So yeah, we're
all a little shook, and everybody's kind of fact checking
real time. We wondered, like, what was the big ticket moment?
Was it this door dash video? Potentially, because if that

(30:21):
was the case, we covered this pretty extensively this week
or last week when this video got out there of
this door dash driver who apparently maybe saw him directly,
and was this like air quotes eyewitness, you know that person,
she's a hero, if you know, if she is a
big piece of this equation. Or is this just like

(30:43):
it's the end of June or maybe it was July.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
Or maybe it was a combination of door Dash, the
the third party suspects being denied in court, the trial
not being delayed like denial after denial for denial.

Speaker 7 (30:57):
Family that really did it. I think the sandbags were
thrown off here. You know, the door dash video. Although
we found out about it very recently. He would have
known about that, So that's not news to him. Because
that's one thing about this case. So much was done
under seal. We don't have all those details. He did.
What happened here was his off ramps were closed. He

(31:18):
lost the ability to challenge the DNA several months ago.
He lost the theory on alternate suspects. At that point,
you've got to explain why your DNA's there, and you
have no ability to suggest it with somebody else. All
the fingers are pointing at Brian Kolberger. His lawyers at
that point are working very hard on him to say, Brian,
we're running out of options here. The only thing you

(31:39):
can do is try to save your life. You got
to come to your senses, Jarret.

Speaker 5 (31:42):
Question for you so as obviously you are a former
homicide prosecutor and veteran trial attorneys, and you have handled
some huge, high profile murder cases. So you are the
one to ask. Yes, you are Gezon, all your greatness,
I got confused for a second.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Oh my god, it's okay.

Speaker 5 (32:00):
I can jump down.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
I have more kind of for more questions, Jared Jarrett. Jarrett, Jarrett,
you know, I I there's a story in my head
that does not make it fact. But a little bit
of the story or the spidey sense that we've all
talked about offline is, you know, he had a really
loving family, right and he is it possible that maybe
his parents, his mom and dad, you know Dad, we
know he called or someone who was in the family

(32:24):
who was registered to that phone number. In the hours
after the deaths and before the bodies were discovered, Brian Coburger,
you know, called home and spoke for pretty lengthy amounts
of time. Let's just assume with dad. And we also
know that Dad picked him up at the university and
was driving him back for Thanksgiving and they got pulled

(32:45):
over by the police two separate times, which is unheard of.
Maybe that was divinely guided. Now in retrospect, that was
another factor that just seemed impossible to me. Is it
sometimes the family of the accused that kind of weighs
in and is like, look, enough is enough? Your sister
may have to testify against you, Like we've been through enough,

(33:05):
make it end, or like there's I guess we'll never know.

Speaker 7 (33:09):
Yes, well, that fact. I've had cases where lawyers have
brought in members of family, the people that the defendant
respects and looks up to, to come in and talk
to them. This is not one conversation, this is a
series of conversations over a period of weeks. I would
bet I've been waiting for the phone to ring on
the other side, saying how did mom make out? Trying

(33:30):
to talk him into a plea, etc. So I don't
think Brian Kolberger told his family what happened. I think
he refused to show that side of himself to them,
but once it was clear to them they accepted who
he is. I'm sure they told them, Brian will love
you despite this. We're trying to save your life. You
need to take this thing that probably weighed very heavy
on him, and I bet you that's what happened.

Speaker 5 (33:52):
Wow, I have another question. I remembered my question from
before Jarrett the alternate suspects and it was under seal,
so we don't know who they were. But how does
that work? Does the defense attorney? Because you can't knowingly
throw someone under the bus, can you explain a little
bit how that would have worked.

Speaker 7 (34:09):
Sure, there has to be some kind of a causal
connection to the individuals you are proposing as alternates to
the case, and reading the tea leads here there were
four two individuals whose DNA may have been found there
or something like that, or two individuals that were initially
crossed off as suspects. The person who was stalking I
believe Maddie. At one point at Walmart, all of those

(34:31):
people were eliminated as suspects because their DNA was not
found there. They had an alibi. Whatever it was that
judge used the word cintilla. He said, there's not a
sentilla of evidence that connects these individuals to the murder. Okay,
when a judge uses the word scintilla, you're in trouble
because they're saying there's no one ever says there's anything
of a scintilla suggesting that somebody else is responsible. So

(34:56):
when I saw that, it was clear Judge Hitler was
not buying it.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
One more question is how as a former prosecutor, how
much did you put into what the families wanted when
you were deciding charges and things like that and then
accepting a plea.

Speaker 7 (35:11):
Personally, I was always keeping families informed and discuss the
reality of a plea very early on, even if it
was on the table. So, but however, they're on the bus,
they're not driving the bus. Input is important, should always
be considered, but ultimately the DA has to make that call.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Well, yep, I.

Speaker 5 (35:29):
Love that analogy about the bus. That's actually really a
clear one to keep in our minds.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
So there was a letter sent to the family by
the prosecutors, and in that letter it said that sentencing
is expected to take place in late July as long
as Coburger enters the guilty plea as expected. At the
change of plea. Hearing that schedule for Wednesday, walk us through,
kind of quickly, walk us through Wednesday. What is Wednesday
going to look like?

Speaker 7 (35:55):
Wednesday may be quick and painless. He may just come
in and enter a plea of to the four counts
of murder and burglary and have that call of que
with the judge, and then a sentencing date in late
July is then scheduled. That may be now, it may
be quick, quicker than people expect, but it's very very

(36:15):
powerful and important that that process happen obviously, and then
the emotional opportunity for victims to confront Colberger happens at
the end of July.

Speaker 4 (36:24):
Now, does the judge accept the plea at that point,
does he have the opportunity to reject it, or does
he take it under consideration and issue an order later.

Speaker 7 (36:34):
In all likelihood, the judge would accept the plea right
then and there. Now he's aware of what it is,
He's prepared to accept it. I'm sure the prosecution and
defense have met with him already.

Speaker 4 (36:45):
Is there any chance of him denying its?

Speaker 7 (36:49):
Look, it's possible, but I would say it is not
extremely unlikely, okay.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
And the spirit of it is that he gets to
take away the death sentence, right, so in an effort
to spare his own life, he will he will have
to confess.

Speaker 7 (37:03):
Yes, and the terms of the flea will be set
forth for the judge too.

Speaker 4 (37:07):
Would that be made to the public, like the terms
of the plea with the public get knowledge of what.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
The terms are?

Speaker 3 (37:12):
Oh?

Speaker 7 (37:13):
Yes, and the public will be able to watch that
proceeding as well.

Speaker 4 (37:16):
Excellent, excellent, Wow, Oh interesting?

Speaker 5 (37:20):
And Jared? With the sentencing, is that up to Is
that up to the judge? Is that already set in stone?
What happens with the sentencing.

Speaker 7 (37:28):
It's one up to the judge with a recommendation by
the prosecutors. Is advisory compliant with the law, But ultimately
it's the judge's discretion. But the sentence that's in the
letter to the victims' families from Bill Thompson says it's
four consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole plus

(37:48):
the ten years for burglary for good measure.

Speaker 4 (37:51):
I guess I wonder, I wonder if the judge what
would be swayed. My understanding is that some of the
family is asking the public to call Judge Hipler and
ask him to reject the plea.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Is that a possibility.

Speaker 7 (38:04):
Yeah, it's just not likely. I don't have the judge
telegraphed this as well. He said, as you will, Stephanie.
I think mentioned that the judge directed the prosecution of
the defense. If you're going to work this out, it's
got to be in the end of r.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
The last best offer had to be done. Now, yeah, yeah,
the last best offer.

Speaker 7 (38:23):
So he signaled there he's willing to accept something and
consider it. And this is Look, this is the only
plea that was really an option here on both sides
saved their client's life for the defense and the prosecution
locks Brian Coberger up and throws away the key.

Speaker 5 (38:39):
Jareded, we want to thank you so much for everything
you've clarified.

Speaker 7 (38:43):
Oh, thank you. It's my pleasure.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Consider yourself booked for Wednesday.

Speaker 7 (38:47):
You got it covered. This has been just a whirlwind
for everyone. It's a. It's an incredibly fascinating and tragedy.
Takes ability to have the opportunity to talk with all
of you, takes a village.

Speaker 5 (38:59):
Jared Fair and veteran trial attorney, co host of the
YouTube series Primetime Crime and host of the podcast True
Crime Boss. Coming up at the top of the hour
at eleven. We've got a lot more to cover. The
latest with p Diddy this time his kids are actually
in trouble as well. Keep it here True Crime tonight.
We're talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
It has been a wild day. We're going to be
talking about some issues with the juror in the Ditty case,
as jury deliberations are already off to a wacky start.
So more on that to come. Shout out to Oscar
who works with us every day, who is back and
we're so happy about that. But you know, first, first,
we're talking about the Brian Coburger developments. If you haven't

(39:52):
been following this case closely, Brian Coburger is accused and
has now pled guilty to murdering four Idaho college students
on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. All four students were
were murdered with a knife like a Rambo knife, a
major overkill. He has claimed his innocence, was looking at

(40:13):
a death sentence trial set to begin in August. He
was going to face a firing squad potentially if found guilty,
and instead he has decided to change his ways and
come clean after two and a half years of putting
families in his family, even through so much grief, that

(40:35):
he will be in court on Wednesday and he will
officially make make a statement I suppose or enter a
guilty plea and change his original innocent. Those days are over.
So you know, Courtney Body, this has been one of
those cases that we're all so close to, maybe a
little too close to at this point. Admit it's important

(40:56):
to talk talking about and we want to hear from
you too, So please, I'm told our is ringing off
the hook tonight. Ooh eight eight eight three to one crime.
Please jump in join the conversation. We want to hear
from you, or you could also leave us a talk back.
Just download the iHeart app, press the right hand top button,
leave a message and boom, you're in the show. Because
we really want you to weigh in.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
Yeah, definitely, and you know everyone's very like emotional about this,
and like, I totally get it. I don't want anybody
think that I'm like, eh, whatever about it. I just
kind of expected this to happen. And you know, I
think as long as this plea deal includes like the
idea of allocution or like a confession of sorts with
detailed information maybe to give to the family if so

(41:38):
they want it, if they want a motive, if they
want to know the reason, why why did you do
this to my kid? You know, like, as long as
it includes something like that, I'm not going to be upset.

Speaker 5 (41:47):
Why that day, I doubt I'll be so curious. My
guess is that the salient details of that that will
be that and the motive. I don't I don't know,
I say, I'm just I'm just guessing in the wind.
I guess everyone is until he is in court. But
we have a talkback to get to first of the couple.

Speaker 8 (42:09):
Hatre Crumb tonight, Well, I'm shocked about that, Brian Kolberger Pleadale,
And honestly, if I was a family member, I'd be
happy to have answers and an idea about the motive.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Why do you think the Gonsale's family is so mad.

Speaker 5 (42:20):
Why don't you want to have answers?

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Mm?

Speaker 4 (42:23):
Well, you know, and I yeah, I think they you know,
you would want to have answers. But you know, I
think the idea of justice for them specifically is sitting
in the trial, you know, being the voice for Kaylee, right,
and you know, seeing this through they They've said, you know,
Steve Gonsalve is an early interviews, said the reason they

(42:44):
chose Idaho to live in was because of the death penalty.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
They're very strong believers in the death penalty.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
Uh. And you know, if if that's their belief of justice.
So the fact, you know, if you're Steve Gonsalves and
you know his wife and the whole family, the sisters,
the the idea that this has been ripped from you
has got to be just devastating, right, the idea of
justice being ripped out of your hands. And I feel
like that's where they're at. I don't understand it. But
I'm not them, you know, I'm not I'm not them.

(43:10):
I can't put myself in their position. And we haven't
heard from anybody else. We've heard from you know, Xanna's aunt,
and apparently they're very upset. I don't know who specifically is,
but we haven't heard from anybody else. There's four families
in this that that have to, you know, weigh in,
and we've only heard really from one. We've heard from
the Consolvest family. They've been very vocal, they're very upset
about this. They've written several statements. Zanna's aunt has said

(43:34):
that the family is upset. But we haven't heard from
them directly, and we don't know how anybody else feels.

Speaker 5 (43:38):
And that's their right, that's right, absolutely have you know,
whatever their process is. And as you said, for the
Gonsalves family, that was to go and go to the trials,
and then for others it may not be and an
ending and ending to at least the litigation of this.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
And you know, but Spence also for the you know,
the state, the expense is tremendous.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
It would have been so much more had to continued though,
had this continued, it would have been death penalty cases
are appeal after appeal after those are so expensive, not
only for the state but the defense. He's publicly defended,
you guys, like, the cost on the state is tremendous.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah, it's true, it's true. And for good reason. Listen,
we all cover cases where sometimes, you know, listen, unfortunately,
sometimes the wrong person is put to death, right, so
it's important that we have this checks and balances and
that there are appeals. Again, this is not a soapbox
about the death sentence. However, our hearts really do go
out to Madison Mogan's family, Kaylee Gonzalveez's family, Xana Kernodle's family,

(44:41):
and Ethan Chapin's family because they've been on the front line.
And you know, unless you're in that situation and facing
such unimaginable grief, it's hard to it's hard to speculate.

Speaker 4 (44:52):
Right right, Well, I understand we have another talk back.

Speaker 7 (44:55):
Hi, ladies, I love this podcast.

Speaker 9 (44:57):
So, Brian Colberger, this plead seems out of nowhere. Do
you think that the parents of the victims had any
say at all in this plea deal? And do you
think that they're happy that he'll be behind bars forever?

Speaker 4 (45:12):
Well, we know on May fifteenth, the judge told the
defense that the lass best the last best offer, was
expected at the end of June early July. So I
think that you know, there was all a sense that
something was coming, whether it was going to be accepted
or rejected or even offered at all. I think was
up in the air. And if the family was aware
of it, Yes, they were. They were aware that it

(45:34):
was a possibility because they met last week. Right they
met last week. A letter was sent to them, a letter,
like you couldn't even call them. That's so ridiculous to me.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
Maybe maybe they did. Maybe they did, but they're they're
not saying yeah.

Speaker 5 (45:48):
In a previous segment, Jared Farantino, the legal expert we
had on he has been in a similar position, and
he said he couldn't believe it was actually in a
letter and not a call. So, like I said, maybe
there was a call. But the letter again does indicate
that families were involved, and we now have the fallout
that at least one of the four families, the consolvas Is,

(46:11):
are not happy.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
All right, this is your Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, I'm
body movin and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker.
We're all very emotionally charged right now. We're talking about
the potential plea agreement that's been made with Brian Coberger
to plead guilty in the murders of the four college
students in Moscow, Idaho. Give us a call at one
eight eight thirty one crime or use the talkbacks and

(46:33):
we'll try to get it on the air as soon
as possible. We have another one. We have another talkback
you guys.

Speaker 8 (46:38):
Hey, y'all, this is any from Oakland. I hope you
guys are all doing well tonight.

Speaker 5 (46:41):
Now.

Speaker 8 (46:42):
The Gonsalves' family just released a family statement, and the
family statement is has some pretty strong words in it
about Letal County and the Leetal Counties prosecuting Office. So
I just want to know your guys' thoughts on the
very strong worded family statement.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
That's a really good question, and we have it. We
have it very here.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
I don't know if should read it. Yeah, absolutely, okay,
thank you INNDY the Cancalvas family statement. The death penalty
is merely an illusion in the criminal justice system. When available,
it serves as a bargaining tool for the state, and
when rarely applied, it's never enforced to the highly ineffective
appellate process. Again, we've been talking about that, right that's

(47:23):
me now. The notion that someone complete guilty to a
crime and still face years of appellet delays reveals a
systematic failure the Leytal County Prosecutor's office. Treatment of our
family during this process is something I wouldn't wish on anyone.
We questioned decisions early on in the investigation. Why was
the mayor commenting on the case. Why was the coroner

(47:43):
speaking to families? Why was an officer with less than
two years experience leading this investigation? Why was the University
of Idaho involved when they declared it an isolated off
campus incident. Why was the university permitted to write a
book about the incident while others were silenced under an
overly broad order. As a result, we were branded adversaries.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
So it was no.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
Shock how the Laytal County Prosecutor's office mishandled this plea deal.
They vaguely mentioned a possible plea deal on Friday without
seeking our input, and presented the plea deal on Sunday.
Laytalk County should be ashamed of its prosecutor's office. Four
wonderful young people lost their lives, yet the victims' families
were treated as opponents from the outset. We weren't even
called about the plea re received an email with the

(48:24):
letter attached. That's how Leaytalk County Prosecutor's office treats murder victims' families,
adding insult to injury. They're rushing the plea, giving families
just one day to coordinate and appear in the courthouse
for a plea on July second. Who do they think
they are after more than two years? This is how
it concludes, with a secretive deal and hurried effort to
close the case without any input from the victims' families
on the plea details. Our family is frustrated right now,

(48:46):
and that will subside and we will come together as
always and deal with the reality that we face moving forward.
Once again, we thank everyone for their thoughts and prayers.
I mean, I'm done. That was the whole statements. He's
on point though, right, It's so true. Are really with
a Gonzalvez family. They are Kaylee's parents, and I can
say firsthand that they're wonderful people, and you know Kaylee's brother,

(49:08):
all of them have you know, been living in this
never ending nightmare.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
And yeah, they're being caught off guard. We were caught
off guard. I felt sucker punched. And it's not a
family member. Imagine if you're in that situation, you know,
God willing, nobody has to face that. But again, they
have been through two and a half years of this mess.
When this story broke, body you were on it. We
were all losing our minds at Harvey Levin, we were
all like, you know, connecting, is this fact? Is this fact?

(49:35):
Has this been confirmed? Because it did seem a little
out of nowhere, like a bombshell on a Monday. And look,
we're still kind of feeling emotionally dysregulated. Imagine if it's
your daughter, right, it's unimaginable, and you.

Speaker 4 (49:48):
Have this idea in your head. You're going to go
to court every day. You're going to be Kaylee's voice.
You're going to take time off in your voice, You're
going to be Zana's voice. You're going to show up
every day. You're going to remember your daughter. Are you
going to remember your son in the courtroom? You're going
to give an victim And none of that's going to
happen now.

Speaker 8 (50:05):
No.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
And also listen, the trial got moved. Remember all of
the days it wasn't going to be in Moscow anymore.
They had to move it to Boise, big transition, more delays.
So now we have this maniac in Boise. The families
have to you know, take time off work, they have
to fly there or drive there in some cases many
many many hours. The expense of that. So they're already

(50:27):
putting their lives on hold for this summer. They're bracing
for it.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
Right.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
So on the one hand, of course, justice is you know,
has its own way. Yeah, oh for sure.

Speaker 5 (50:37):
And what you read, body, I mean that really that
was a lot of well, there's a lot of facts
and feelings in there, and you know, I guess again,
I don't know where else a family has to go
as an outlet.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
I don't know. I know that I know that they'll
probably be doing interviews. And you know, one thing that
stood out to me and that impact that statement, was
that they only have a day to get down there.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Yeah, it's not easy. You don't just drop everything like
they it's you know, holiday week, it's fourth of July.
You've got kids, kids and grandkids even exactly dogs exactly.

Speaker 4 (51:10):
No, I mean you have to make arrangements. This is
you know, and I'm sure they want to be there,
especially if there's an elocution. I mean, if there's an
elocution on Wednesday, I'll be surprised, but Jared said, it's
possible you're gonna want to be in a courtroom to
look at him when he's giving his allocution.

Speaker 7 (51:25):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (51:26):
Absolutely, And one day to prepare for that is.

Speaker 4 (51:29):
It's upsetting and I you know, I don't know. I
just I'm upset for the family. I really am.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
We've been covering this Brian Coburger bombshell. He's a man
accused of ordering four college co eds November thirteenth, twenty
twenty two. Accused of murdering Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonzalvez, Anakernodle,
and Ethan Shapin. He's claimed his innocence. His death sentence
trial was set to begin in August after many, many,

(51:58):
many many delays, include just last week an attempt delay
and that was denied, and today, out of nowhere, the
bomb drops that he is pleading guilty to all four charges.
So he'll be back in the courtroom on Wednesday. We
will be following this extremely closely. Before we go any further,
we want to go to our talk back. The phones
have been off the hook.

Speaker 10 (52:19):
Hey's Saren from Lowell, New York. I'm a huge fan
and I tune into you guys every day. But I
can't believe that Brian Colberger is going to plead guilty.
I know him, probably in the minority, but I totally
thought the defense was going to come through with an
alternate suspect and that someone else or even multiple people
were behind this.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Your thoughts, well.

Speaker 5 (52:39):
First of all, thank you for the talkback erin, And
yes you know you thought that because that is what
the defense had put up, so you know, even though
it was under seal, everyone was kind of waiting, and
earlier in the show, Jarrett Farentino broke it down a
little bit of who the alleged p people who were

(53:00):
going to be listed as alternate suspects, you know who
they were tangentially their connection to the victims. But yeah,
you probably are the minority, but.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
It makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I thought the
same thing. Courtney and I used the battle about this
every day. She's always so sensible, right, so smart. That
one was like, this guy's guilty, this guy's guilty. Oh,
only to be joined by body this guy's guilty, this
guy's guilty. So the two of them are the smart ones.
I was hook line and sinker a sucker and felt
as though he was a PhD student and frankly wouldn't

(53:35):
be so messy about this perfect crime. And I also
thought that maybe he was getting tried in the press
and being targeted. This was a worldwide case. There were
very few people that were being looked at except for
by him. He was apparently putting up all kinds of
suspects and a lot of people were dragged into this
that were not connected to the murders, who were like

(53:56):
discussed on social media as the guy, remember the man
that was a food truck, which was the last place
two of the victims were seen that night. That poor
boy in the hooded sweatshirt behind them on the ring
cam of the food truck. That guy had to like
leave the country because he was getting so much hate
from you know, crazy super sleuths who were were really

(54:18):
put putting a finger at the wrong person. And honestly,
that like Starry, you know, he was out stargazing. That
was Brian Coberger's alleged alibi. I don't know, it doesn't
sound very great, but it's plausible. Everything was still plausible,
and I guess that's why I'm feeling so bummed. It's
such a bummer.

Speaker 5 (54:40):
It's your belief in humanity, is what I think it is, Stephanie,
And I think that's what it is to me.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
For me, it's more like people have a really hard
time believing that this dork is. It just took these
four magnificent souls. Like if this dork could break into
too somebody's house and kill four people, you know, who
are young, fit, aware, you know, like, then then anything
can happen. Right, It's it's implausible, it's it's hard to

(55:10):
wrap your mind around. So of course it has to
be somebody else. It has to be the boogeyman. Well,
sorry to tell you, but Brian Kolberger is the boogeyman.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
I hate it. It's makes so maddening. And you know
what one thing we should all be grateful for is
that there were two surviving victims. One of them actually
identified him as somebody who she essentially saw in the hallway,
and she identified bushy eyebrows, which he, of course is,
you know, notably has. They could have been killed as well,
and thank god they weren't. The door dash driver who's

(55:41):
gotten so much play recently, the door dash driver who
delivered food to Ethan Shapin and Xannerknodle just before the murders,
who was you know, technically a potential eyewitness moments moments before,
so you know, he could have killed her, and thank
god she survives. So there are the like sliding door
moments of you know, insanity, but like the survivor's guilt,

(56:05):
it's real, and you know, again our hearts go out
to the whole town. Imagine Ethan Chapin was a triplet
his you know, twin sister and twin brother. I don't
know how you say that correctly if it's a triplet,
but that school got annihilated. And imagine like now it's
just the gig is up and this maniac has just
been lyon with that smug face this whole time.

Speaker 5 (56:29):
Fair enough. I don't even I don't even know what
to say to follow that speechless Well, one thing I
can speak to is uh Diddy deliberation Sean Ditty Combs
deliberations began today in the trial against Shawn Combs. But
not is all correct with the jury so prosecutor. Prosecutors

(56:50):
allege that for twenty years Combs has operated a criminal enterprise.
They allege kidnapping, bribery, sex, trafficking and more. But today
his fate fell into the hands of twelve jurors, and
it was very very quick that a problem occurred. So

(57:10):
the first note that came out to the judge was expected,
and it was that the jury the four person was
chosen during number five, a forty two year old nursing
home aid from Manhattan, a mother of two, So that
was an expected note. Not long after, another note came
to the judge that indicated that members were concerned about

(57:32):
jur number twenty five and the other quote is that
they cannot follow your honors instructions. So what we know
about Juror number twenty five that he has a PhD.
I believe in you fact checked me on that to see.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Twenty five jurors, Am I wrong? Like that's a lot
of jurors. No, I thought there were only twelve.

Speaker 5 (57:54):
Well, there's alternates, but I guess they all they have
different numbers, maybe from where they were sitting during vais D.
I don't know, fancy, Actually we should, we should maybe
look into how juror's numbers are given out. But yeah,
so they said that they were concerned about this juror,
and then later in the day the jury raised had

(58:15):
another question, and this is seeking clarification about whether an
individual can be found responsible for distributing drugs if the
person who received the drugs requested them. So the judge
said he will provide an answer in the morning, so
we'll know tomorrow what I guess because I don't know
the answer to that question or.

Speaker 4 (58:35):
Either well, you're listening to True Crime tonight. I'm Boddy
Movin and I'm here with Stephanie Leidecker and Courtney Armstrong
and we are talking about the p Diddy. If you
want to weigh in, give us a call at eighty
eight eight thirty one Crime or use the talkbacks on
the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
So we'll find out tomorrow. But I guess I think
it's worth noting though, because again this is a very
major case. Again, don't get me started, you know, did
he We were very surprised to find out was not
putting forward any defense. He wasn't going to speak in
his own trial. That's not unusual, but also he wasn't
calling forward any witnesses. That's been highly debated. Is that
a show of confidence or was that just a way

(59:12):
to muzzle any more cross examination that could potentially lead
to celebrities or other people who are not being dragged
into this. Possibly let's just go there for a second.
So again we're easing into a July fourth holiday weekend.
If you're a juror and you're you know, over a
month into this and you're you want to get back

(59:33):
and get back to your routine, get back to your job,
you know, listen, TikTok. I'm sure they're anxious to start
the real world again. So for there to be so
many like complicated things to your point, I think the
question was, Look, if somebody is asking for the drugs
and I give it to them, does that make me
a distributor? I think the answer to that is probably yes.
It's illegal to have drugs. And if somebody's asking you

(59:57):
for something illegal and you supply something illegal, I have
to assume that's illegal. But again, Jarrett Farantino, our resident
attorney who's been breaking down so much of this trial stuff,
will have to weigh in on that. And if anybody
here knows the answer, please jump in eight eight eight
to three one crime. Because it's complicated.

Speaker 5 (01:00:17):
It is complicated, And speaking of knowing the answer, a
little research helped just came in and jur number twenty five,
because that was an interesting question, Stephanie. It's just an
internal identifier. It's not the total count. So the total count,
there are twelve seat adjurors. There are eight men and
four women. There are six alternates, four men and two women.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Because there's been all this speculation chatter online. Not my opinion,
just an observation that, you know, the jurors in this
particular case, it's a racketeering case. The racketeering kind of symbolizes,
you know, the mob, right, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
Organized and organized, snitches get stitches, and you know, if
you're a juror and you are sitting a trial that
is so high profile and the person that's being accused
is also so her profile and has deep pockets, the
fear would always be that the jury pool is being
tainted somehow, that maybe they got to them.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Right, That's how it happens in the Sopranos and in
the movies, right, the Goodfellas of it all. You know,
I'm not saying that that's happening here, but you know,
we have seen some juror issues throughout this entire trial.
So one of them got a text. One of them
got a text. The other one got to get dipped,
you know, like there's been stuff. So when this first
hit the news, I was like, oh my gosh, in
the eleventh hour, can you imagine deliberations are finally underway

(01:01:36):
and the juror got tampered with. There's no indication that
that's the case, and it's appropriate to have a question,
right And we saw that in the Karen Reid trial
where the jurors, you know, Karen Reid of course infamously
just got off of her retrial for being accused of
killing her boyfriend in her lexus, the jurors had a
lot of questions, and we want to make sure they're

(01:01:57):
asking those questions so that they get the answer, because
a lot of chatter is saying he may walk. He
seems to be laughing it up in the courtroom, and
you know, Courtney, you were just having a giggle about
what he's reading. I mean talk about optics.

Speaker 5 (01:02:10):
Oh yeah. Sitting this I've found kind of infuriating that
he is sitting there with his attorneys in the room
and his self help book sitting right in front of him.
Is the power of positive thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Like that's going to do the trick and let's talk
about the optics, because Courtney, you had brought this up
last week and I thought this was really astute. You know,
the optics of a trial. It's such an important thing.
It's like a play, right, like who puts on the
biggest show? Is important and it has to be broken
down into Layman's terms. We'll be right back, stick around,
We'll be back. We're going to hit a talk back
for Diddy. Stick around right here for true crime tonight.

(01:02:58):
The phones have been off the hook because we have
been talking about the bombshell developments in the Brian Coburger case.
If you've been following along, Brian Coburger, accused of murdering
for Idaho college students, has pled guilty and will be
in court on Wednesday. We will be following these developments
very very closely. And did he watch deliberations game on?

(01:03:20):
They're happening on the eve of a holiday weekend, so
this verdict could come in as soon as tomorrow or
Wednesday is feeling very likely. I think the nation is
getting increasingly divided about how this is all going to
shake out. And the big ticket item today is that
their juror juror number twenty five is having some some
questions and is apparently not following following orders or the rules.

(01:03:44):
What is the what's the Rundown Court? It was?

Speaker 5 (01:03:47):
It was the fact that jur Number twenty five didn't
seem like he could follow along with the judges orders
and they were having they cannot follow. Yeah, your honors
instructions is exactly right. And what they are hung up on,
which honestly, I think is incredibly valid, is clarification about
whether an individual can be can be found responsible for

(01:04:09):
distributing drugs if the person who received them requested them.
So the judge will be clarifying this tomorrow we'll have
the official answer. But honestly, I think this speaks to
the confusion of all of the rico charges that we
have been talking about for weeks, because it's so intermingled.
It's not a black and white that drug dealer off

(01:04:32):
the street goes and sells it to somebody. No, it's
Ditty's assistant, it's Ditty's you know, potentially loved one. So
it is messy. So honestly, you're twenty five, I'm with you.
That's all I gotta say, because it is confusing and
I think it does again speak to how it might

(01:04:52):
all get a little messy with the rico.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
And listen, better to have the question answered prior to
giving a verdict. Yeah, you know, so he gets off
because they didn't have it clear, or he gets sentenced
to life because they didn't have it clear. That's not
the goal, right, We want justice period. And frankly, it
has been a little confusing with these charges. So to
your point, Courtney, it's a fair question. Yeah, it is.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
So we have a talk back.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Can we put the go hi?

Speaker 11 (01:05:18):
This is Tanya from Alabama and regarding the Didty trial
and these women that were supposedly in the loving relationships
with Ditty, do you suppose they were being threatened to
say and act certain ways to be in a loving
relationship because it's always the women who are supposed to
well why didn't she get out? Why didn't she leave?

(01:05:40):
But what kind of threats were made to them to
keep them quiet?

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Yes, exactly, it was such a great question. I'm going
to get crazy again. But listen, we saw what happened
when Cassi Evnsura, his ex who testified for days on
the stand nine months pregnant, faced the monster. We saw
the video of her try to get away, and he
beat her to the ground and kicked her and kicked
her again and dragged her by her hair. We've seen

(01:06:06):
the photographs. Getting out of a traumatic scenario like that
is so much easier said than done, And unless you've
been in that spot, I don't think people can judge.
And it does surprise me a little bit to your
point that it's sometimes it's women that are extra hard
on female victims. You know, we've heard this, you know,
Courtney and I were, you know, talking about this very
recently in terms of jury selection. Sometimes if it's female

(01:06:30):
victim centric and when they're picking a jury, they don't
always necessarily want women because women are harder on women. Allegedly.
That was astounding to me and it still is a
very judge to me. I don't think, first of all,
neither of you are and I would want you on
my jury and a heartpiece, I really would, but like,
I not feel more of the ladies. I think more

(01:06:51):
like guys, Like it's not easy to get out of
these situations. Yeah, coercion abuse. Everybody that worked for him,
they would threaten them and threatened to put videos out
of them doing really intense sexual things in ruining their lives.
Why is that up for question?

Speaker 5 (01:07:11):
Yeah, very fair well. And additionally, there is yet another
Ditty family member that is facing some legal battles. This
is civil, but Sean Combs's son, Justin, he's thirty one
years old. He's been accused in this civil lawsuit of
luring a woman from Louisiana to come to Los Angeles.

(01:07:34):
It was allegedly under the promise of, hey, I'll help
you get a job in TV. My dad has connections.
And the allegation state that she was allegedly gang raped
by three masked men and she is claiming that one
of them was Ditty because Justin called him Pops. I

(01:07:55):
just want to state that still feels really tenuous. I
do not doubt this woman's story over all. But this
lawsuit that was filed last week, it claims very similar
that Justin used status, celebrity status to lure the woman
and his powerful father to make this happen.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
And listen is that you know, it's it's wild. It's
interesting timing. As you know, deliberations begin and there is
some speculation that did he may walk because of these
complicated charges, or that maybe the state has not proven
racketeering because that's such a big charge. You know, we're
we always are wondering, why not domestic violence? We think

(01:08:36):
we that's for sure the case. Even he says, yeah,
I'm not so great with women, clearly. But that's an
interesting point. And it's a state charge. It's a state charge,
but like better to get a state charge guilty than
a federal charge not guilty. I mean, sex trafficking is federal.

Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
So I mean it's hard to it's hard to commingle
those things in one chores the other.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
Son, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Speaker 5 (01:08:58):
I was gonna say, oh, this was several weeks ago, Stephanie.
We had your brother, an attorney, and he explained Rico
as body thankfully has continued to educate us with and
he said, it's an umbrella in which you are. Then
it gives you the platform to charge people who are
worth charging, with many different tentacles in different crimes, all

(01:09:22):
under one bubble. And that's what this is. Again, it's
twenty years of this.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
Is the allegation, and it's not a one off crime.
So yes, it does show that it's organized. And there
was another son, I think and by the way, thank
you to our True Crime Tonight listener, Alicia, because she
flagged that last night when we were talking about the
sons and their charges, I misspoke that this particular son, Justin,
who's now being brought into this, he is not Albi

(01:09:49):
Shore's son. Quincy is the eldest son, and he is
Albi Shore's birth son. Did he allegedly adopted him, But
just for clarity, Quincy was not brought up on any charges.
Justin was and the other Christian back in April twenty
twenty four also was brought into a suit that acclaimed
that he was also doing very bad things to a

(01:10:10):
woman on a yacht.

Speaker 5 (01:10:12):
And I think that's gonna have to be a mess
for another day. You're listening to True Crime Tonight. I'm
Courtney Armstrong. I'm here with Stephanie Leidecker and crime analyst
Body Moven, and we're talking about p Diddy. We are
talking about Justin Didty, and we are also I've been
talking about today's bombshell of Brian Kohlberger taking a pleat

(01:10:33):
deal for murdering the four University of Idaho's students. If
you want to weigh in with your thoughts on any
of these topics, give us a call. We're at eighty
eight three one crime or hit us on the talkbacks
on the iHeartRadio app Yeah, Stephanie, that third suit is
worth talking about. But I think to two ditties is

(01:10:55):
enough for one night?

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
How about three ditties? And then the apples in the
trees are not lost on me? Like this is in
the genetics potentially allegedly allegedly allegedly everybody have a drink.
Allegedly it's not a great look or is it something
that's you know, strategy. I don't know. Did he do it?
Did he do it? I? I think did he did?
And I wait to say that for a time. Let's

(01:11:18):
just get it, get it, get a nice job. Nice job.

Speaker 5 (01:11:20):
That's a book title who we have had and it's
our esteemed guest.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
Yeah, did he do it? Did he do it? That's right,
that's right? That was our wonderful did he correspondent? You know,
the optics of this one though, was crazy making, because
you know, we know, bad boy for life?

Speaker 5 (01:11:37):
Did he?

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
And you know he's giving you know, tough guy, but
in the courtroom he's giving huxtable vibes. Right, he's wearing
his little wool sweaters, and his hair is gray. Courtney
pointed out that that was fully intentional because he needed
because he was so old in prison and couldn't get
the hair dye. But it makes him look like this
sweet little old man. He could never do all these
very bad things. Oh, and he has this little book

(01:11:59):
of pop it of thinking. Meanwhile, his daughters, his lovely,
beautiful young daughters, have been having to go to court
and witness all of this hideousness, Like, how would you
as a parent. This is where he loses me from
day one. How do you let your daughters be in
that room? Why? Because it's a good look. It makes

(01:12:19):
him look like a dead and so sweet, even though
he's beating women senselessly by his own admission, we've seen it.
That's not a solization, Yes that that's not even alleged.

Speaker 5 (01:12:29):
It's not. But he appears to be a megalomaniac. So
I have no degree. I don't even know if that's
died on.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
Merror with the lipstick. You're an icon?

Speaker 4 (01:12:38):
Did he You know he's a sobal megalomaniac, Yes, super villain.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
Po word, What does a megalomaniac mean?

Speaker 4 (01:12:47):
Oh, it's an egomaniac, like he's an egomaniac.

Speaker 5 (01:12:49):
Yeah, the entire world. I am the center of the
entire world. And so of course he would have his
daughter if they need to be used as props, no problem.
So I have no problem from what I understand of
his you know, state of mind and how he has
treated everyone, that he would have his family sit there.
And by the way, body, thanks for bringing up did

(01:13:10):
he do it? That was written by lovely Matthew Russell Lee.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
Yeah, he's been doing such a great job outside the courthouse.
I've been following him daily.

Speaker 4 (01:13:18):
So he tweets live like from Inner City Press on Twitter. Sorry, X,
got to be right about that, And he's like really
up to date on everything, did he right?

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
Like constant updates all day long. He's he's he's been a.

Speaker 4 (01:13:35):
Dogged reporter, and he apparently reports only on federal cases,
which is interesting, I thought, because you know, there's no TV,
there's no there's no recording in any federal case. And I,
in fact I gearing I will I suspect that we'll
be following him and talking with him during Luigi Maggioni's trial,
if there even is one.

Speaker 5 (01:13:55):
I know all these please well, he's not.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
Going to get a trial.

Speaker 10 (01:13:58):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:13:59):
We're jumping opined early on that Luigi was gonna plead
because of the death penalty, and here we are with Coberg.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
Girl, I can't handle it.

Speaker 4 (01:14:07):
Listen, the last thing the system wants is Luigi on trial.
The last thing they want.

Speaker 5 (01:14:12):
That's he is so divisive.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
We'll get into that later.

Speaker 5 (01:14:17):
Yeah, that'll be. That'll be an interesting one to get into,
is right. But listen, give us a call. We're at
eight eight eight three one crime and we're talking about
multiple things, but the bulk of this evening was the
bombshell where Brian Coburger took a plea deal and that
he killed the four University of Idaho students. So that

(01:14:38):
trial that was supposed to happen in August will not
be happening.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
We are still going to be covering this wild case.
We are watching the Brian Coburger developments. I feel pretty snookered.
Then you're not dumb. I don't mean it that way.
I do feel like suckered a little bit. I think
I'm more impressionable probably than you. Guys are far more
keen ears and you had a se You're.

Speaker 4 (01:15:00):
Very empathetic, and the families are clearly upset and this
is very traumatic for them. You know, their idea of
justice was the death penalty and watching basically an eye
for an eye, right and there for some of the families,
and you know, the Steve I'm sorry, Steve Golenkalvaz, the
father of Kaylee, one of the victims in this case,

(01:15:22):
is you know, he's very upset. And he went on
News Nation tonight and he said, you know, this is
I'm going to paraphrase, he said, you know, this is
not justice. And the majority of the victims' families are
upset about this. So it is worth noting that previous
segments we weren't really sure how the other families felt,
but he's saying the majority. So the majority of the victims'

(01:15:44):
families are upset with this, are upset.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
This plea deal. And I can say firsthand they're all
tight too. You know, trauma brings people together sometimes in
the most you know, unexpected, horrible ways, and this has
been an experience that's now bonded them for life. And
we can't say it enough. I know all of you
were all together on this listening. We're sending our hearts
in prayers to them real time, if we all close

(01:16:07):
our eyes for one second and to send them love.
They deserve it. And this has been a lot, Yeah,
it is.

Speaker 5 (01:16:14):
I think it's worth taking one moment just to have
a little nugget about each of these victims, each of
these four. So Xana Karnodle. She was a junior majoring
in marketing and when she graduated high school, she decorated
her mortar board with butterflies and the words for the
lives that I Will change. Ethan Shapin, also twenty years old.

(01:16:37):
His obituary stated Ethan lived his best life. He loved
the social life, intermurals, and tolerated the academics. Madison Mogan
was a twenty one year old senior from Cordeline. She
was majoring in marketing and was incredibly close with twenty
one year old Kayleie Gonsalvas since the sixth grade. The

(01:16:58):
two were in step and Kaylee posted pictures of the
pair throughout their lives on Instagram for Madison's twenty first
birthday and wrote, I wouldn't have wanted anyone else to
be the main character in all my childhood stories, and
Madison replied I love you more than life, my best

(01:17:19):
friend forever and more. Excuse me, I just thought it
was important to take one moment.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
Oh, it's incredibly important.

Speaker 4 (01:17:26):
And what you said, what Xanna said about the butterfly,
and this is that it hit me too.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
They were great friends and our hearts are also with
the surviving roommates who have also lived through unimaginable anguish.
And you know Brian Coburger who is now set to
take a plea deal and has life behind bars in exchange,
you know we will take the gloves off. So more
on this this week. Tomorrow we will be back covering

(01:17:54):
the new developments that are shaping up real time, both
in the Idaho college murders and also did he want much?
Will we have a verdict? This is true crime tonight,
thank you for being with us. Please stay safe out there,
and our hearts are with you. Good night,