Bryan Kohberger Photo Dump, Menendez Brothers Debate, and the Reality of 'Family Annihilators'

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of course,
with Courtney Armstrong and Body Movin on talk Back Tuesday.
It is here Tuesday, September twenty third. And listen, guys,
we don't even have a stack knight of headlines. We
have a stacked night of talkbacks. So this is the

(00:41):
one opportunity that we really get to guarantee we're hearing
from you at all times, at all costs. Leave us
your talkbacks or call us live eight eight h three
one crime, jump in, join the conversation. You could also
leave us a little message on our social media. Ooh,
very exciting. And by the way, we're getting a lot
of these. I'm even getting some personal ones right now

(01:02):
which are awesome and righteous, and keep them coming at
True Crime Tonight's show on Instagram and TikTok or at
True Crime Tonight on Facebook. But yes, guys, hi, I
really all are well, yes, Tuesday, I'm happy here Tuesday. Listen.
TA has been working very hard because he's aggregating stories

(01:24):
generated by listeners, which you know he's going to tell
us more about later. But it's exciting because remember last night,
the Munchausen's conversation was so interesting. I thought, and again
were so interesting. I thought, Yeah, it came from the
it came from the audience.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yeah, Jordan Hope, former victim of Munchausen by proxy and
now advocate.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
They were amazing. I learned a lot. Yeah, and they
came from our audience. So we're trying to just kind
of keep this user generated, like, keep the conversation flowing,
the conversation and flow. If you have a thought, have
an opinion, please jump in. We are all gathered around
the same kitchen table having a little coffee clutch right now.
So I guess we should go to a talk back.

(02:10):
Let's go, let's do it.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
Hi, this is Kem in Kentucky. I had a thought
about the David and salast Or so last if the
car indeed was broke down, for instance, potentially a battery,
then it wouldn't be recording, right. I mean, I know
nothing about Tesla's just a thought I had. Have a

(02:33):
great night, ladies.

Speaker 5 (02:34):
That's an interesting concept that the maybe battery died. But
I think those systems work off of different, you know,
power sources. If you have a Tesla way in eighty
eight thirty one crime. I'm not one hundred percent sure,
but I do my understanding is that those work on
different power sources, so it wouldn't be like the one
main battery that goes dead and now nothing works.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
And it's a fair question.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
It's a fair question, you know, because obviously not obviously,
but the car, indeed, David's car was found at an
in Pound lot and it had been towed after being
abandoned on a Hollywood street for quite a little bit.
But we'll probably will beg the question of was the
car broken down.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
As you suggest or was it left.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Because indeed the person who left it knew that Celeste
Reevas's body was in it. And actually we should take
this moment to just give a quick update.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Let's do it.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, a community visil was held. This happened in Lake Elsinore,
right here in California, on Sunday, and that was to
honor Celeste Revs Hernandez she's a fifteen year old girl.
Her body was discovered in this Tesla Fronk, the front
trunk of the singer David So And this, this whole
case emerged when authorities found her body inside of David's car,

(03:56):
and the media has been all over it and community
concerned as well, because it came to bear that Celeste
has been missing since April of last year, when she
was only thirteen years old. So details do remain somewhat limited.
There are many, many questions about the circumstances of celeste

(04:16):
death's death and her connection to David, but neither he
nor anybody else has yet been publicly named as a suspect.

Speaker 6 (04:25):
And I find that so interesting.

Speaker 5 (04:29):
And the fact that this poor teenage girl, and let's
be real, she was fourteen, right, because the press and
everything and it was fifteen fifteen, But I think she's
been in that car longer than a day. And I
believe her birthday was like a day prior to her
being found, So in all intents and purposes, she's fourteen

(04:50):
years old.

Speaker 6 (04:50):
This is a baby girl.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
And in the fact that there's no suspects or or
any public suspects right that we know about, and we've
learned learned that her body was in, you know, a
kind of an advanced state of decomp to the point
where they couldn't really even tell her ethnicity.

Speaker 5 (05:08):
So my feeling is that she's been I think what
we're going to find, and it's horrific to imagine, but
I think what we're going to find is that her
she's been in that fronk a lot longer than we suspected.
And one thing that comes to mind is I was
watching yesterday. I was watching the tesla being towed away
from the impound lot, and I noticed there's an air

(05:30):
freshener hanging from the rear room mirror, and it's like
one of those Christmas tree ones, you know, exactly Listen,
I don't know that many teslas that have those hanging
from the rear room mirror.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Can we say, you're shocking me right now, because we
haven't talked about this. I had the exact same thought.
Stop it the weird air freshener, which is like the
kind we've all had, you know, It's the kind that
you get at the car wash or the gas station
when you're like, oh, pine fresh. I always choose vanilla,
and then regret it because it's so much vanilla. You
don't normally see that in a tesla. Right, So tesla's

(06:02):
are unique in a few ways. When they have a
front trunk, that's unique to most vehicles that have you know,
back trunks or hatchbacks. It's small, so it's a tiny space.
So you are kind of imagining this. We'll have to
ask Joseph Scott Morgan, but you're like smushing a human
in there. It's not there's not a lot of space.

(06:22):
And even though she was a young girl in very
few pounds, which you know we talked about very early
on when this body was discovered, that's very very intentional.
How could there not be a suspect? The signs of decomposition,
the odor alone, to be like relieved in someone's head
by an air freshener that looks like a pine tree

(06:44):
is absurd. But a tell a tell, and it's two
part right, Like this story is seeming like there's parallel
paths right now. On the one hand, I mean, it's
not great. You're on tour, you're a pop star. You're
singing and dancing and having your moment on unfrankly a
very important time in your career as this pop star

(07:04):
who's you know, very popular, and a body is decomposing
in your vehicle real time back in Los Angeles, which
was you know, apparently towed very close to your home.
That's one narrative. I think if that was a very
slam dunk narrative, likely there would have been an arrest
made by now right, we've been talking about this for

(07:25):
a minute. The alternate side to that, just to put
it out there because we don't have the information. The
autopsy results or any results from the coroner have not
been released, and we're following it very closely. The other
side to that is you're this pop star having your
big moment and you're finally getting to go on tour,
which is the name of the game in the music business.

(07:47):
This is the thing not easy to accomplish. You're you're
doing it and your car gets stolen or one of
your knucklehead friends from yesteryear is staying at your place
and borrows your car. I don't know, something happens with
your car unrelated to you, and misfortune happens for this
beloved girl, Celeste, and then the car danger and you

(08:11):
know happens, murder occurs, it's assume air quotes and then
the car is towed. Here we are, yes, it's your vehicle,
but your career is now over. Like this is a
hard one.

Speaker 7 (08:23):
To put back in the bottle guilty present an alternative
to those yes, I guess Please, do you know maybe
it was an accident or maybe intentional with like some
sort of drug, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
And the only reason I say that is because we
still don't have a manner of death. And you know what,
maybe they're waiting for toxicology. Maybe she had some sort
of over there not maybe not even intentional. It could
have been maybe given to her even and something like that.
I'm not saying that's what happened. Please, don't you know,
take to get wrong. But by the way, and they panic.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Right, they freak out, and they're like, oh my god,
we can't sell anybody. The cops are going to lose
their minds.

Speaker 8 (09:04):
Can't.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
I'm going on, she's fourteen, and she's fourteen years old,
runaway exactly. They're all going to depend it on me.
What are we going to do? Dumb brains do dumb things.
Here we go. Oh that's a real scenario. There was
a time I By the way, I've heard this story
firsthand where people were playing in Miami and like everyone's
like yeah, party, party, party, and like someone died and

(09:26):
everyone panicked and they threw the guy off the balcony.

Speaker 6 (09:29):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's what like the brain something like that, right,
something like that. So here's a body discovered, you know,
good luck finding it. Maybe it's David adjacent, right, maybe
it's not specifically him. That's a really good point about
toxicology because correct me if I'm wrong. Toxicology takes a
little longer to get the results back, and you have
to be pretty specific about the draw you're doing, whether

(09:54):
that's you know, a certain Elsta drugs aren't on the
regular panel of toxicology. You have to request it. Ooh,
I have to think on that. That's interesting.

Speaker 6 (10:05):
So it's just something I've been thinking about.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
And also with the arrest, which I know everyone definitely
myself included, to keep saying why isn't there some kind
of arrest? But that can go and that can really
jeopardize the case in court. And there isn't even a
confirmed cause of death because of the outstanding autopsy, right,
So acting in haste can jeopardize everything in the long run.

Speaker 6 (10:28):
So all right, and maybe there was no homicide at all.

Speaker 5 (10:30):
Maybe it's just like you know, abuse of a corpse
or something, you know, I mean, we don't know yet.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Or even if it is.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
And I could think of several other cases where people
have said, how could you not have arrested so and
so who ended up being a suspect, And the answer is,
we didn't have enough. And if we don't and we
arrest someone and then the person gets out, it's way
more detrimental than taking an extra second, which hopefully you
will take an extra second to be reminded that this

(10:58):
is true crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
And I'm Courtney Armstrong. Here is a.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Body move in and Stephanie Ladeker and we're talking about
the body of Celeste Revs Hernandez, who is the teenager
who very tragically has been found in the singer David's car.
We want to hear all of your thoughts. We're at
eighty eight three one crime, so give us a call.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
To that end. Though, let's just be real, no matter
what happened to beautiful Celeste, this young girl was shoved
in a trunk and left at the side of a
road to be towed away and left in said impound
like that is off the grid in terms of anything,

(11:39):
and it's really upsetting it. I can only imagine her
family and friends and we're seeing this from this vigil,
childhood friends, friends from kindergarten, all speaking out speaking.

Speaker 5 (11:49):
She's just a wautiful, wonderful person she was.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
And you know, when we first started covering this story,
even Tahi, I think you said it ninety two pounds,
you know, she was such so little, it's so such
a little girl. And by the way, because she's a
little girl.

Speaker 8 (12:04):
Well that was part of it. But according to what
Joseph said, that a lot of it had to do
with decomposing over the time period that body was in
the car.

Speaker 5 (12:12):
Yeah, and you know, in one thing too, we learned
from the press only was that she was dismembered.

Speaker 8 (12:20):
Correct.

Speaker 5 (12:21):
Now, yesterday I thought we were going to be talking
about this a little bit more so I went to
a bunch of research. The police have never said that.
Police have never said that she was dismembered. And on Sunday,
when we had Joseph, I had asked, is it possible
they meant like, did she dearticulate from the you know,
maybe dcomp and Joseph said. Joseph said, and I think
he's right. You know, dismembered is such a specific thing, right,

(12:46):
and there would be evidence of that, like tool marks
and things like that. So it would be odd for
the police to tell the press that she had been
dismembered prior to their being kind of any kind of
autopsy that was done. So I'm kind of wondering if
we're going to learn that it's possibly that it was
just the articulation, and that the fifty pound weight losses
from the DCOM.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
And that the fact that this case is in just
top of tongue everywhere, it is so grizzly, and the
fact that there is not even a suspects or that
we're not hearing more information about this wild search for
right is in and of itself a tragedy. I feel
for her mother and her family. And listen, we did

(13:27):
a little I did my digging just a little bit
on him, because again, not charged, innocent and in this
exact moment, innocent. So we have to be careful. This
is a young guy. He's a twenty year old guy.
He's a start of his career. What if it's not true,
and it's something else. It's a really hard thing to
recover from. The only Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 8 (13:47):
And I was going to say, but he might be
innocent of that, but he was still involved with this
fourteen year old. So I can't thirteen do we?

Speaker 2 (13:57):
We don't fact, Yeah, we don't know that for facts.
By the way, there's a couple of things that Tah
has pointing to, which are you know, hard to overlook.
One Celeste is a name in his lyrics to one
of his most you know, prevalent hit songs is yeah.

Speaker 8 (14:13):
To comicide one of his hit songs.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Hard but what a bummer like that? Is not an
easy one to get around. You know, this was a
kid that was a really beloved guy. He started getting
homeschooled at thirteen years old. You know, do the math.
I guess that's COVID time, right, but never return to
public school. And he has spoken a little bit through
lyrics and interviews about isolation, et cetera. So here's a

(14:38):
seventh grade brain. Was this seventh grade brain attracting a
seventh grade girl despite how much older he's gotten a
lots of unpack there? If only I was a therapist,
which I am not listen. Can we come back and
kind of just wrap this up a little bit and
then off to some more talkback guys. It talked bout tuesday.
Keep them coming or join us eight eight eighty three

(15:01):
One Crime. You're listening to True Crime tonight, True Crime
all the time. By the way, new podcast dropping tomorrow
in Cells, In Cells, everybody, you gotta listen. Courtney Armstrong,

(15:23):
come on at the Helm.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
It has been I have to say, I feel like
collectively we have learned so much about the topic of
in cells, which is something we have been circling around
for more than half a decade, but it has been
staggering how much has been illuminated. And I think it's
really it's very interesting, it's very important, and it's extraordinarily timely.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
So yeah, I would give a listen. I get, body,
what do you think like? It's really turned into a
larger conversation. Listen.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
I have said, I have said the term black pilled
way more than i'd like last couple of weeks, you know,
than I ever thought possible, you know, and explaining what
this you know, blue pill, red pill, black pilled has
been for quite a while now, so I'm excited for
it to come out, and I'm excited for people to
learn about, you know, kind of like this epidemic let's

(16:15):
call it, you know, as of our youth. Yeah, so
I think it's going to be interesting for everyone to
listen to.

Speaker 6 (16:21):
I'm excited for it to come out me too.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
So tomorrow in Cells, iHeartRadio dropping the podcast, so please,
we're so we're so looking forward to listening, and you're
getting your feedback. You could even get get in the
conversation here after you listen, so you know, we're all
sort of in it together and both Courtney Body or
Extraordinary on it and listen. So yes, we make podcast

(16:47):
documentaries and we get to do it together. Courtney Armstrong
Body Move in talk Back Tuesday. So we're talking a
lot about this case that again is really an extraordinary
one about David the pop star who was on tour
no longer is and you know, parallel time his tesla

(17:07):
which was impounded in Hollywood Hills. Again, he was not
there because he had left to be on tour. The
remains of a beautiful young girl was found in the trunk,
which is the front part of his trunk of his tesla,
decomposing in an impound lot, and now she has been identified,

(17:28):
and it's scary stuff, and there doesn't seem to be
an arrest imminent, and that in and of itself is curious. Body.
I think you said it best. What does that mean?

Speaker 5 (17:39):
I just sometimes sometimes the absence of information is information,
I think. And right now we have a lot of
absence of information and a lot of assumptions being made
about you know, it was she murdered?

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Is it him?

Speaker 5 (17:54):
You know, we don't know anything right now, and I
think that is information. I think not knowing her manner
death is important. I think that maybe they are waiting
on talks because there's been no obvious sign of how
she passed. And again we have to remember, this is
a fourteen year old little girl. This is a little

(18:14):
this is a little girl. A lot of times when
we're talking, it's it seems very abstract, right, we're celest
Now this is a fourteen year old little girl. She
was one hundred and twenty pounds and when she was
discovered she was seventy one pounds. So and we've learned
through this that it's this advanced state of decomp and
this is so disrespectful, you know, to her, her just everything. Anyway,

(18:39):
I'm digressing.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
Did you, Joddy, did you have information on the camera
that the landlord had?

Speaker 2 (18:45):
What was that? Because I don't know anything about it.

Speaker 5 (18:47):
Well, I read today that the landlord has come out
and he said his first name is Malden. I cannot,
for the life of me, pronounced his last name, but
his first name is Malden. He's like the homeowner and
he's the guy who rented the property to the manager.
So he said a professional security company had installed multiple

(19:08):
cameras years prior. The devices cover all key entry points
in the backyard and even the street, creating what he
described as an air tight system that would capture anyone
coming or going. So apparently all angles are covered. So
if there is some kind of suspect activity, I'm hoping

(19:28):
they find it. But you guys, if it happened eight
months ago, let's say, right, because we don't have for
we don't know how long. Right, if it happened eight
months ago, I'm not sure. If it's like a system
that's you know, over recording itself every week, you know,
two weeks, three weeks, whatever, we don't know. It's still
an absence of information. But the fact that there's no

(19:48):
arrest right now, to me, is it's telling we it's
they just don't have enough information themselves.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
And there's two pieces that I thought were just interesting.
They're not. They're not clues. This is nothing for but
just like little seeds of this story that have stuck
with me. One, this guy seems like a nice guy.
He's a pop star. He's under a really big label,
same label as like Billie Eilish. This is a big moment,
you know again pop star moment. Looking back at his history,

(20:17):
he again, we talked about it earlier. Seventh grade, moved
to Texas, started being homeschooled. He was on you know,
playing games, you know, Fortnite, all the things that he
twitched the kids play. He twitched a lot, and he
was adding music to those games. Or he was making
little videos gaming videos, and then was running into some

(20:37):
copyright issues by using other popular musicians. And therefore mom
says to him, hey, you should start using your own music.
That's a you know, you're very talented, go with it.
He's being homeschooled, he starts kind of creating his own
music to really add to these like Fortnite, little video
game things and a rising star is born. So on

(21:02):
the one hand, what a beautiful story. And you can't
imagine in your right mind that if you're looking to
dump a body of somebody that you love, you would
put it in your personal vehicle and let that get impounded.
That seems impossible. However, the other side of that, which
also feels impossible is the fact that they seem to
have a connection. Right, So if in fact what we're

(21:23):
hearing is accurate, and there seems to be some photographic
proof of this, that this is somebody that was thirteen
years old when she met him, and where again, who
hasn't dated an older guy at a young girl? Again,
that's illegal at this point, where where this is not
a older boy. We're out of the territory here, and

(21:45):
you know they have matching tattoos. Her name is used
in his lyrics. These are hard tells to get around, right,
And I'm surprised there hasn't been more kickback or more
of an uproar for information. He's canceled his tour. There
remaining tour dates are no longer. But that's all we know,

(22:06):
and very little information it's known about him, So there
is a you know, his his immediate label is also
under Interscope, which is a big deal. There's very little
to be from that about his family. It's being scrubbed,
you know, real time. And by all accounts, the music

(22:26):
was great. So what a waste beyond measure and what
this beautiful girl could have been in this life and
to be left in a vehicle in the front of
a trunk is unimaginable and unforgivable.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
Agreed, Yeah, well, they had some beautiful words. We I
just want to leave every one with this, and this
is from some of the people who had gathered at
the very well populated candlelight vigil to honor Celeste Reavus,
and one person said I recognized her because of her big,
curly hair with her backpack on the way to school,

(23:02):
and another one said, my nephew went to school with
her since kindergarten. I just want to say, if it
was my daughter, I wouldn't want her to be forgotten.
I just want justice for this little girl, because whatever
happened to her, it wasn't just an accident, so well said.
And we will of course continue updating you as information
does come out, because there is a dearth of it

(23:24):
right now. But in this moment, shall we turn to
another talk back top?

Speaker 8 (23:30):
Sir, Yeah, let's go to it.

Speaker 9 (23:33):
So this story that was brought up about the bodies
that were found at the funeral homes that weren't being cremated,
and it reminds me of the podcast named Noble, which was
an investigation about a funeral home or a cremation center

(23:55):
that they found over three hundred bodies that weren't being
cremated in two thousand and two.

Speaker 6 (24:03):
Oh my gosh, another one.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
What is going on?

Speaker 8 (24:06):
This is crazy. It looks like at the end of
that they said in Georgia, So this is another one.
I'm not this.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Case and an abrupt ending to that one.

Speaker 6 (24:15):
But I looked it up.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
It's the podcast Noble.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, they found three hundred bodies in Noble, Georgia at
a cremation home.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Oh my god.

Speaker 8 (24:23):
I think I think Joseph hinted at this case.

Speaker 5 (24:25):
I think he might have because he did tell us
to not look it up when we were home alone.

Speaker 8 (24:31):
This was the one. Yes, this is the one.

Speaker 5 (24:34):
I believe, So at least I'm home alone, so I
didn't look it up. I listened to Joseph.

Speaker 8 (24:37):
I was afraid as well.

Speaker 6 (24:39):
Yeah, I didn't want to look it up.

Speaker 8 (24:40):
This is horrible. I also never heard horrible things.

Speaker 5 (24:44):
Just to bring everybody up to speed. Between twenty ten
and twenty twenty five, Colorado's funeral industry faced multiple scandals
involving fraud, body mishandling, and the distribution of fake ashes,
revealing systematic failures due to like you know, lacks regulation
in the funeral home industry, and high profile cases.

Speaker 6 (25:05):
In Montrose, Penrose.

Speaker 5 (25:06):
And Pueblo exposed this criminal activity happening at these these
funeral homes. They were selling body parts and giving customers
their loved ones back, but they were just like cement
ashes and things like that.

Speaker 6 (25:23):
So it's been. It was something that we did a
story on. It's been. It's just terrific.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
You know, it's interesting you guys brought this up and
you really laid it out so importantly on Sunday. I
don't see often or ever, and this is just in
my purview in my personal life. I have never seen
a plot of land and they're like, hey, you know,
funeral sites coming your way. You know, it's like I

(25:49):
know where there are bodies being buried in cemeteries. You know,
family members included my own father, Like, I know where
those are, and they're typically like crazy overrun. I never
see like, hey coming soon. Yeah that's true. I knew cemetery.
Where are all the bodies going?

Speaker 6 (26:08):
Well, I think most people get creamated nowadays, don't they.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
I don't know if that's totally true, by the way,
I'm on board, but I sure.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
Look into that because I my understanding the last time
I did look into this for I'm not sure what
kind of reason. Yeah there is, I mean, there is
getting to be a lack of space. It's becoming urgent,
and I know cremation has come gone up, but I
don't know if it's the norm.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
So okay, fat this is just a very top line search,
top of head. So again, if you want to join
in the conversation, you know differently, the death care industry
in the US air quotes, By the way, who knew
that was a thing. It's so scary. Lists one hundred
and fifteen thousand cemeteries overall in the US. Some sources

(26:54):
suggest that those only like two twenty two thousand, five
hundred cemetery are active.

Speaker 6 (27:01):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
So if there's not active space and you are, yeah,
maybe your religious beliefs or your personal beliefs that you
believe in, like a coffin being buried, and like a mausoleum,
all the things right.

Speaker 6 (27:18):
Yeah, where is everybody going?

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Right?

Speaker 5 (27:22):
But my understanding. So I was raised. I was raised
as a Catholic, and growing up, I was always taught
that you know earth to earth you have, or you know,
dust to ashes and whatnot. And then and so we
when my mom got sick, when we were making her
arrangements prior to her passing, you know, we kind of
pre arranged everything. She mentioned to me, Oh the Pope

(27:44):
said that we can get cremated now, and I think
and listen, now, this is what she tells me.

Speaker 6 (27:50):
Okay, okay, this is so.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
I don't know if it's true because I'm myself am
not you know, a practicing.

Speaker 5 (27:56):
Catholic, So I don't know if it's true or not.
But that's what she tells me about My mom always made.

Speaker 6 (28:02):
Stuff up though. Okay, so let's be let's.

Speaker 5 (28:05):
You know, let's make sure I don't want anybody to
be offended by what I'm saying. Literally, my mom would
always just make stuff up and tell me the pope
that it was okay, now, so. But and if that's true,
then maybe some people have opted to be cremated now
instead of being you know, interned in the earth.

Speaker 6 (28:24):
I'm kind of worried.

Speaker 8 (28:25):
I've thought about it, like, I think that would be
a choice. I would go with this cremation just for
a lot of the reasons we're talking about, like it
it just feels like, I don't know, I feel it
feels like a better way for the environment in some way,
shape or form. But I don't know. I I've thought
about it a little bit, but not too much.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
Yeah, there's many options in this one I haven't looked into,
but I guess there's safe and sanitary ways that you
can your remains can go to help nourish a tree, growing.

Speaker 5 (28:58):
Biodet kind of and things like that too that are available,
even for you know, burial at sea. Mm hmmm, because
that's also an option. So I think people are, just
like you know, with the Internet, I think people are
just maybe exploring alternative, alternative way burial in internment things.
I think that's probably what's happening. I don't know, but

(29:19):
this Colorado story is it's cifying. It makes me want
to They were giving, they were giving loved ones. Fake
ash is made of hardened concrete. And this guy, John Halford,
he received twenty years in jail on an unrelated fraud case,

(29:41):
but he was like running this phone.

Speaker 8 (29:42):
Well, he can't go to jail long enough. In my opinion, no,
I do that.

Speaker 6 (29:46):
I can't tell you.

Speaker 5 (29:47):
The comfort it gives me to have my mom, who,
by the way, I adored even though she lied to
me all.

Speaker 6 (29:52):
The time about the pope.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
That's a good mom.

Speaker 5 (29:56):
I can't but it gives me great comfort to have
her ashes with me at all time, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 6 (30:01):
I even got a tattoo with her ashes.

Speaker 8 (30:04):
You mentioned that. I've never heard that before. So you
can take some of the ashes.

Speaker 5 (30:07):
And I don't know if it's legal, but I'm kind
of friends with my artist. But they take the ashes
and they kind of sprinkle it in the whatever ink
you're going to be using, and they mix it up,
and then you get a tattoo with that ink and
now the ashes are party.

Speaker 6 (30:20):
But again, like, I don't know if that's an I
don't know.

Speaker 8 (30:21):
For us to do that, okay, but I think that's
so beautiful.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
Your secret, Your secret is safe, and I'm sure if
the Pope heard, he would approve, he would forgive us.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
We're talking true crime all the time on talk back Tuesday,
which is where you guys get to air it all out.
Go ahead, bring us your questions, your thoughts, your opinions.
We want to hear them. Eight eight eight three one crime. Listen.
It feels like an unsafe time, but this is a
very safe place, So gather around. Come on in, let's

(30:52):
unpack some forensics and discuss important things. So join the
conversation and let's say, let's go straight to a talk back.

Speaker 10 (31:00):
I think that's highly calling from Australia. I'm just in
regards to the Menendez mon parole. I know there's people
that think they should still be in there and why
the boys did it, But unless you're actually a survivor
of domestic abuse or child abuse.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
You don't really understand how people react by the way
that's accurate.

Speaker 5 (31:25):
I mean, I don't think there's a cookie cutter answer
either to how you react to those kinds of abuses
as a child, right, everyone reacts to and I don't
think listen, I just don't think vigilante justice is something
that we should number one applaud or number two forgive lightly.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
That's just my can you can? I so can? I ask,
and I don't know if what my answer would be,
But do you do you think there should be such
a thing as mitigated mitigating circumstance? So, okay, we have
one dead body and they are shot, and they were
a stranger too, said murderer. There is another dead body

(32:10):
and they are the let's say romantic partner who perhaps
you know, physically and sexually abuse them for fifteen years.
Would you consider considering that as a mitigating factor.

Speaker 6 (32:24):
It depends on if it was premeditated or not.

Speaker 5 (32:28):
If it was premeditated, If it was premeditated and they
had every and ample opportunity to leave or you know,
get the police involved or whatever, then I don't really
necessarily think it's mitigated.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
That's a fair stance, And you know that I do
disagree with that. I do disagree with because I think
people their circumstances, you can get in so deep that
you can't see out of it. And I think it's,
you know, part of why people do hear victims' impact
statements work, and those can go both sides. So I

(33:02):
think tomorrow will be talking about Diddy. You know why
people should be let in or let out. And I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Does the origin story matter? Right? So like this is
the root of all stories. We're here, every movie, every song.
You know, I'm going to get this wrong. And this
is not an original thought. I'm quoting something, probably incorrectly,
But both the hero and the villain typically have the
same origin story. One uses that origin story to do

(33:33):
bad and get revenge and let everything and everyone else
feel their pain, and the other uses it as fuel
to be a hero and make the world better and
protect others because often those who are wounded the most
become the biggest healers, sadly or not sadly, Like you know,

(33:55):
your mess becomes your message. This is not an opinion.
I just I wonder. And in the Menanda's Brothers specifically,
you know, there's like frontal lobe and judgment and young
boys and I don't know, you know, we've got I've
personally have gotten a lot of information and dms, specifically
about our episode last night about Munchausen's bike really and

(34:18):
the impact of a mother and one thing it stuck
with me, which is a stat And again, I hope
I'm not getting this wrong, And jump in if I am,
but a therapist DMed me, if I was smart enough
to pull it up real time, I would, and maybe
we'll have her on but that she has interviewed ninety
nine patients of her own. So it's a small microcosm

(34:42):
of people who were sexually abused by a parent the
dad in all of these cases, ninety nine cases, and
mom knew, and mom was aware that this was happening
and did nothing to stop it. Only one of those
patients out of ninety nine, only one mother said let's

(35:05):
leave them what I choose my kids over him?

Speaker 5 (35:09):
Only one.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
So again, this is not a forigna fiuthentis recommend think
about that. So I don't know what hit me terrible?
You know you don't think so now here are the
Menanda's brothers. By the way, I've not been all pro
letting the Menanda's brothers free. I find it very complicated.
I have been swayed by all the conversations we've had
about it, frankly, so I'm kind of coming to these

(35:31):
thoughts real time. So please, you know, offer me the
grace to kind of understand it myself. But here you are,
you're two young men. You're up against it. Dad is
a nightmare by on every level, the worst nightmare you
could imagine. And it's very powerful, by the way, right,
very powerful, very rich, very domineering, check check check, check,

(35:53):
check all the boxes, and also revered by the public
all the things. And Mom, who's your one source to
you as a young boys, you know you look up to,
you want to be saved by. And if what this
is true, that mom looks the other way, that is
really hard also, and I guess to our talkbacks point,

(36:15):
it is very difficult for anyone who has not experienced
that real hand, real personally to understand, right. And I
think that's why it's so important that we can keep
talking about this case. Maybe why the Menanda's brothers are
so valuable despite whether they're behind bars are home, they
are creating a very real conversation about things that happen

(36:36):
in the dark or behind closed doors. That's probably a
little more prevalent than we think it is.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
It is prevalent. I mean, the statistics don't have top
of my head, but it is. It's shocking how how
much abuse is given at the hands of people who
are either very close if not related. But you know,
these circumstances. They are so complicated. I remember several weeks
back someone had called in and they made they made

(37:06):
a clear distinction which I could understand between Dad, the
actual abuser, and mom, Kitty Menandez who by by accounts
idly sat by and let it go.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
And to me, that is one in the same and
how many.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
People happen to agree and a lot of people wouldn't,
but it's one and the same. You are you know,
as you said, this is your mother who is supposed
to be a haven.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
And your frontal lobes. Suddenly I'm a scientist, but like
your frontal lobes not being I mean, I should not
be talking to friendtal lobes. But to be true, I've
heard this. This is I am sure of this, you know,
especially for boys and young men. And again they weren't twelve,
they were, you know, closing adulthood. However, your frontal lobes

(37:55):
allegedly are not fully formed, meaning you don't fully get consequence.
You don't really fully get it, like you don't really know,
you don't really get it. So this speaks to premeditation.
This was a wild overkill. Those guys, they knew what
they were doing. They knew what the plan was, They
went to the movies that night, they bought the firearms.
They knew this was it, this was so there wasn't

(38:16):
a frenzied moment. However, imagine the hell you must be
in the cage you must find yourself in emotionally when
you don't feel as though there's anywhere to turn. And
we don't have a show like ours or any conversations
about you know, sexual abuse specifically for boys.

Speaker 6 (38:35):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
I don't want to underestimate, because you know what I
think about all victims, right, but it is an interesting
thing that I think is also worth us discussing throughout forever.
Is you know, young boys really don't have the language.

Speaker 6 (38:48):
They really don't. That's true.

Speaker 5 (38:49):
It's a really unfair you know, spin, not spin, but
it's a really unfair angle that boys have, right because
and it's they're weak.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
No, it's not. Yeah, that's not true at all. By
the way, Pilo on the shame, By the way, I
believe shame is a sign of nobility. You know, it's
a signal I feel like something's not right. Therefore, because
my if you don't have that, you're probably a psychopath. Right.
If you feel like there's no shame in the game,
that's a sign that you're maybe there's something off. But

(39:19):
if you're feeling that shame, I think it's a sign
that like you're bribing some help. You want to scream
it from the rooftops. Now mom is ignoring it. That's
a tough one. I'm not saying. Free the Menendez. I
don't know where I think on this. I don't know what.
I don't have a stand agenda.

Speaker 5 (39:36):
We talked about like mitigating circumstances, like Courtney brought up,
and I think that I think that's really important Courtney,
what you brought up, Like, you know, do you consider
mitigating circumstances when you're kind of like making a judgment
about people? And certainly yes, I do think specifically with
the Menenda's case, I do think that this note should

(39:57):
have been admitted into court. I think their habeus coret.
I think they should have gotten relief.

Speaker 8 (40:02):
I do.

Speaker 5 (40:02):
I think that in my opinion, And again I'm not
a judge, but in my opinion.

Speaker 6 (40:07):
I think the judge aired in this decision.

Speaker 8 (40:11):
I think you.

Speaker 5 (40:11):
Too, But I do think that they should have been
sentenced to jail. You know for their crimes because they
this was a premeditated murder. They were out looking for
these guns for days. They were driving all of they
drove all the way to San Diego to bud these guns.
They knew what they were doing, They knew what they
were doing was wrong because they tried to hide it

(40:32):
and cover it up, right, you know, but there are
mitigating circumstances even with the premeditation.

Speaker 6 (40:39):
Right right there. Point and Courtney's point, right, so.

Speaker 8 (40:43):
Both right, if you've suffered abuse for so long that
if it becomes a point like I don't see a
way out, and I think Courtney, you were mentioning, you know,
they saw the mother as almost the same I almost
recalled that was one of the brothers that said something
to that.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
That's true, and there's right, that's in their most recent hearings.
And by the way, I'm not suggesting that I don't
know the answer here, but it's a complicated one because
are we now opening that conversation to everybody serving time
for murder behind bars? Just their origin story now become
a mitigating circumstance. By the way, good luck having that conversation,

(41:21):
because I would be pretty sure to say anybody who's
capable of committing that crime has a mitigating circumstance by
their assertion, right, So who gets to decide that's complicated?
And then the other being that, Yeah, those guys, it
was a little premeditated, and I feel bad for them
for this. For sure. I think they were given a

(41:43):
lot of false hope about getting home, and boy, it
must be tough to reacclimate into the reality of what
they're now facing, which is a lot of still time
ahead even if they're freed soon that year, a couple
of years. Can you imagine a couple of years when
you think four days? The last mile is the hardest.

(42:04):
As a non marathon runner, I have been told the
last mile is the hardest, and I'm like, after twenty
thousand miles, how hard could it be? But like, yeah,
now last mile is the hardest. Well, listen, we would
love to hear from you.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
We're talking now about the Menendez brothers, and we have
much more to talk about all evening, including whatever is
on your mind. To give us a call eighty eight
three to one crime and should we go to I
think you had said there was another talkback guys.

Speaker 8 (42:33):
Yeah, I think we have another one we can go
to right now.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
I think the Mendez brothers deserve another trial.

Speaker 11 (42:38):
Gipsy Rose helped murder her mother.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
By manipulating someone, and she is out of prison, and
the Mendez brothers have to serve life. And I don't
think that's fair. I mean, it's hard to disagree. Origin story, yeah,
origin stories, it plays, it plays in here too.

Speaker 6 (42:56):
But Gypsy served her trom it was seven years.

Speaker 5 (43:00):
I know, I'm just saying, but the Menanda's brothers have
not served their term.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
It was life. I mean, those are those are that's
a sentencing issue, right, So I'm just like to say,
by the way, Gypsy's been through it. We talked about
Bunchausen's last night. She was being you know, essentially tortured
by her own mother, who she eventually kicked back on.
But the tricky part with Gypsy Rose, if you don't
know the story, she she had her mother killed by

(43:25):
her boyfriend, got him the tool, you know, like she
like got this guy, you know under She's had her
very tough origin story, but she like sets the boyfriend
up to do the dirty work. She gets released after
I believe it's seven years, seven years. Yeah, and then
the boyfriends still behind bars for life.

Speaker 5 (43:42):
And he's you know, challenged, right.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Right, he had a que he had a very low IQ.

Speaker 5 (43:50):
And so she manipulated him, right, she manipulated him to
do her dirty work. And so I agree and that
with the talkback, But I don't agree. I agree with
the talkback in a way that you might not imagine.
I agree with the talk back in the sense that
Gypsy Rose got out. Yeah, I don't think she should have.
I think she should have been sentenced longer than she got.
But I think the Menendez brothers at this point have

(44:14):
served their term.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
But yeah, yeah, And by the way, Gypsy Rose I
find interesting. You know, I watch all her shows. I
really had a baby. I feel like I know so
much about Gypsy Rose. I could talk about it for
ten years, really see, and I'm like interested in so
annoying to me, I just can't watch her. I like,
I don't know. I do have a soft spot for
and there is something slightly annoying about the fact that

(44:38):
she killed her mother and is like out and about
living on Instagram. She has settled on that, I think
a bit after she.

Speaker 6 (44:44):
Made a bunch of money on it.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Fair, I am curs she also had. She also had
no you know, no training. It's not like she was
going and being enrolled in AP classes either when she
was behind bars or when mom was pulled her teeth
out of her head and keeping her straps in a wheelchair.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Shouldn't need to be in But I don't know. It's
real circuit, so true, it's so true, it's true. You
say it like that, I'm like, it's hard to disagree.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
It's a little hard, but like you said, everyone has
an origin story. I think this is why it's really
It gives me a little bit of peace right now
that every case has tried one at a time instead
of painted with a broad brush, so that twelve individual
people in every case can hear both sides of every

(45:34):
case because they are complicated, every single one of them.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Who I would love to have Gypsy Rose on. Yes, listen,
we're listening to true Crime Tonight, Talk Back Tuesday. Listen,
keep it coming eighty eight three one Crime. We'll be
right back. Second hour, Join us live anytime. This is
true Crime Tonight. We're talking true crime all the time. Listen.

(46:06):
If you've missed any of the first hour, please catch
it as a podcast. No stress but you can jump
in now live eighty eight three one crime, or leave
us a talk back, or hit us up on our
socials anytime we've been talking about the Menandez brothers. Even
as I'm talking to you right now, I'm getting a
text real time. And the question is what if the

(46:27):
Menendez mom was also a victim of her husband, which
is why she looked the other way, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly
when her sons were being abused. This one, I can
my opinion doesn't count in this world. That's not why
anyone's coming here to hear my opinion about anything. We're
just reporting on the information. But in this one, I

(46:49):
don't know Mom's dads. You gotta protect your kids, Yeah,
I don't know that they are above yourself, right, guys. Yeah,
we got to go a little deeper and further.

Speaker 8 (47:00):
Yeah, And I would think even more so why she
would be protective of the kids if she's suffering the
abuse as well? She say, but it does DS.

Speaker 5 (47:09):
But again, there's no cookie cutter response to trauma. True,
you know what I mean, like so true, And a
lot of times, specifically in true crime, I think we
we were all kind of guilty of this of judging
how people react to trauma.

Speaker 6 (47:22):
And I've certainly done it.

Speaker 5 (47:23):
I'm trying to be better about it, you know, from
let's say this point moving forward, you know, but you know,
I think we all kind of get a little bit
judging on how people react to to you know, your
body holds the score, right, your keep scoring. And I
think that, you know, as we learn more about how
people respond to these things too, you know, we're becoming

(47:45):
a little bit more advanced in our thinking.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
And even by talking about it.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
Yeah, even just by talking about it, you know, and
getting it out and learning from other people's opinions, you know,
we kind of can form our own And you know,
I again, I'm I would imagine that this. You know,
Kitty would want to protect her children at all costs.
But then at the same time, I haven't experienced her life,
and I don't know.

Speaker 6 (48:09):
What it's like.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
And being a woman with maybe minimal financial needs, if
left on her own, maybe she's tied to that. Maybe
she's being threatened in her own world. Maybe she's choosing
emotionally to not see it even though she's seeing it.
She's not seeing it. You know, this is a different
time which is again why we're why we have to

(48:31):
be talking about this stuff. But it is a hard one.
And again and if it's never been said, we should
say it now. If you are a child of abuse
in any way not your fault, free pass, if it
hasn't been said to you, let us be the ones.
You are a free pass in this life and this

(48:51):
is worth a discussion and you can heal from anything.

Speaker 5 (48:55):
That's important to remember. So fine, should we do a
talk about.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Let's do it.

Speaker 12 (49:02):
I don't know what it is about the buying coburger
situation with the selfies and the pictures of recently popped up.

Speaker 5 (49:09):
I just think it's so weird.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
He's so weird.

Speaker 11 (49:12):
I just you're self conscious and then you take pictures
of your.

Speaker 5 (49:16):
Self flexing and no shirt on.

Speaker 10 (49:18):
I just don't understand.

Speaker 12 (49:19):
I just think he's such a weirdo.

Speaker 5 (49:21):
A fair points, it's hard to disagree. But it's, you know,
those selfies that she's describing. There's there's two sets, right,
There's basically a set that happened prior to the murderers,
and those seem really normal to me. Those seem you know,
he's taking a photo of maybe a haircut, you know,

(49:43):
he didn't maybe like the way it turned out, and
he's looking, you know, and he you know, he's looking
at how his genes are fitting. And you know, those
seem fairly normal to me. And I use that in
air quotes, right, like as normals could as possibly can be.
And then there's the selfies after the murder, and those
are very strange.

Speaker 8 (50:01):
To me, and I'm glad I don't remember.

Speaker 5 (50:05):
Yeah, so that the selfies after the murder take a
different tone. And as the talkback described, you know, he's
sort of flexing shirtless in different different dates too. It's
not just one day, it's not just one instance. It's
it's regularly regularly, and so in different areas, like some

(50:29):
are in Idaho or I'm sorry, some are in Washington
where he lived in Pullman, and some are in you know,
the kitchen of his mother's home in Pennsylvania. And so
that this it happened over a span of time, and
I think I think he's feeling powerful and I think,
you know, after this murder, it gave him some kind
of power.

Speaker 6 (50:50):
I don't know it's but I think.

Speaker 8 (50:51):
It's literally flexing after her did what he did, and
it's almost excited about it.

Speaker 6 (50:57):
It's weird. It's weird that would trance.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
I mean criminologists we've spoken to and I brought up
Scott Bond before and he's amazing, and he and many
others have said that a lot of people and to
our knowledge, this was Brian Coberger's one incident of murder.
But people who particularly go on to become serial murderers,
they do they have lulls, and that lull is partially

(51:25):
you are you know you you have quelled the craving
and you are resting in that space. That seems to
be a reoccurring thing that happens.

Speaker 6 (51:34):
Right cooling off period.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
There does seem to be a physical difference which I
always look at who we now know to be murderers
and perpetrators frankly, and look at their photos and I
always think there there's a deadness and like a black eye,
there is a look of someone who's tooken the life
of another. And look, we're talking about origin stories. This

(51:58):
case makes me so nuts because again it's such beautiful
lives lost, and this guy seemed to have a pretty
good thing going on. If Brian Coberger had a different
origin story, maybe didn't come from a beloved family, would
we feel differently about him? And is it possible because
these pictures I do think are staggering, and I don't

(52:20):
want to underestimate that. I think they are staggering, and
we are seeing in real time a human being just
like you and me, going through the process of I
have not committed murder two I have, which is like
we are like that is like next level leap, like
we can talk about murder, but let's not remember it

(52:41):
is very real, very And is he flexing in those pictures?
What I see, which again my interpretation just means nothing
in terms of there's no psychotherapy behind it. I see
somebody who felt so meaningless and so powerless, and now
he's committed murder. Maybe that's gonna get He's gotten it
and I got it now? Is it possible? Do I

(53:03):
feel big now? Look me flex now? Like now that
I crossed over to the dark side? Is it possible
that I'm empowered? And I think we've realized that he's not.
And he's shriveling behind closed doors and complaining about food
and he's just he's just a regular human who's done,
who's now going to do the time for what he's

(53:24):
done like there was no like, there was no juice
that he got from this, there was no reward, And
is that what he's flexing about. I don't know.

Speaker 5 (53:33):
Well, And we also got his YouTube history, so good, right,
we got his YouTube history and the things that he
was looking at prior to his arrest. And if you
look at it, it's a lot of maybe just normal
criminology stuff that he would be looking at, but then
there's also all the Patrick Bateman videos. Yes, right, yes,
And so when we're talking about this from American Psycho,

(53:56):
and this is really like personal a little bit for me,
you know, because of my you know, relation to the
Luca Magnotic case in him doing everything with basic instinct
and it's kind of triggering a little bit. And so
you know, in that case, you know, Luca was trying
to recreate a scene in a movie. And I'm kind
of wondering if in the same vein of things, and

(54:19):
maybe I'm getting too in my own head, and that's fine,
and you can tell me if it's true, if I'm
just being crazy, But in the same vein, I'm kind
of wondering if this flexing and whatnot is very Patrick Bateman.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
It's so it's so weird. I think this is the
second time tonight. I'm like, that's you're in my head.
We have not we have not talked about it by
the way we would have, but we just haven't had
a chance to. We haven't. Like, yes, I get that
feeling answer, but I had that same pull, and I
think again, good that we're talking about it because it

(54:52):
doesn't have a happy ending. Courtney, well, I think it also.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
I think that does make sense if he if he is,
and obviously none of us are inside of his rig
whenells's head. But you know, the drawing the parallels between
the American psycho character, because it does seem that Brian
Kolberger throughout his life was trying to figure out basically,
how do I present as a quote normal human being?

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Rian?

Speaker 3 (55:19):
And this would be how do I present now, as
in my views court me a powerful human being?

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Yes, and I know Ringo right there just nailed it.
And Courtney, you're so right. You guys are so smart.

Speaker 8 (55:33):
I love hear that with you.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
By the way, I'll tell you that us I'm going
to steal the mid segment eight eight eight three one
crime join us. We're doing talkback Tuesday, and as I
say that, I'm losing my thought. But like I wonder
if Brian Coburger have you you guys ever seen the
movie The Joker, Sam, I'm always hitting it thrusts, so
if you haven't, it's very powerful. Joaquin Phoenix. When we

(55:57):
first started working on the I'dahome Massacre the podcast, even
prior to the documentary, I just happened to watch it
for the first time, and to me, it really did
speak a bit to the Brian Coberger story. Again, we're
not like trying to glorify making it into a movie,
but it was like this guy who's the Joker, who
becomes the Joker, but his origin, by the way, we're

(56:19):
all origin story tonight, unintentionally, his origin story was he
was a little off, like he never quite fit in,
Like he was like he was the guy that laughed
at the wrong part of the joke even though he
wanted to be a part of the joke, and he
just like wanted friends, and he had a try hard,
a total try hard, and like we all know that guy,

(56:40):
you know, And it's like sometimes it's you're it's sometimes
you're born that way. Maybe sometimes it's a learned thing.
Sometimes you're just left out of the club and it's hard.
You're isolated. We're also down this in Cell's dark web thing,
so I'm doublely down the rabbit hole. Yeah, bear with me.
And then he has like a weird mom who's kind
of eating the beast and he really wants to fit

(57:02):
in and he starts to be a stand up comedian.
Meanwhile he's so unfunny, which meanwhile, Brian Coburger too, always
like trying to like go to the poll party and
like hang out with chick. Oh, yeah, I can get
any girl I want. I'm that guy and the thumbs
up the thumbs up guy, and everything's great.

Speaker 6 (57:18):
I'm humman.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
There's an affect that isn't actually real, right, So that
is and then he becomes the joker, who is this notorious,
awful villain because he's just been like looked over one
too many times and doesn't get authenticity. Yeah, he doesn't
get human connection. How do we prevent that? Like so

(57:40):
we can like pile on Brian Coburger to the cows
come home. He's very guilty and it's sickening. It's senseless.
But like, what are we looking for in the real world?
Probably a larger discussion for a different time or our podcast.
But this guy, the pictures sort of reinforced that, I
guess is my larger point. As we're seeing this dump

(58:01):
of photographs, it's really like watching the scariest movie you've
ever seen, but it's real. You're seeing a guy that's like,
you know, kind of like a little normal. Oh okay,
I can kind of got be on that. Yeah, awkward,
he's trying, you know, herying right, And then the murders happen,
and then we see a man who's committed a massacre,
who is reacclimating into the world that is not real

(58:24):
and is going to get away with it. And it's
so scary. It's American Psycho, but it's not the movie.
It's real.

Speaker 6 (58:30):
It's real.

Speaker 5 (58:31):
And there's those photos that the ones that stand out
to me of those selfies are the ones where, you know,
there's several of them again over the span of many days,
where he's holding his hair back from his forehead. I mean,
he has different faces that he's making, and some he's
kind of smirking, and some he's smiling, and some he's
very serious staring at the camera. But this hand on

(58:53):
his forehead kind of pulling his hair back a little
bit is so interesting to me, and I don't know
why why, I don't. For me, it has to mean something,
it has to, but I don't know what. If you know,
I want to hear from you eight and eight thirty
one crime.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Well as one guess, I have no idea. I want
to hear his brain.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
But it does our hairlines change how we look completely.
I mean this had come up oddly when we were
I don't know why we were talking that.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
You guys both have the greatest hair so I can
talk about hairlines with both of you all day.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
But when we were, for whatever reason, talking about oh,
Pamela Anderson and Liam Neeson, but not to derail us,
what was interesting was that her hairline was what transformed
the actress more than anything else. So, body, maybe you're
reacting on some visceral Levey because either it is changing

(59:54):
the way he looks, or because you kind of know
he's innately trying to I don't know.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
I think he's almost modeling a lit little bit, like
he's looking like I don't how could I be, no,
I know, but he's like presenting like I'm center stage.
By the way the whole world was looking for this clown.
I was one of them. We were all deeply connected
to this murder of four incredible, incredible humans. We were enraged,

(01:00:24):
find justice, find the person. Imagine you're this side just
for Idaho. For like, I feel like we all cried
on ourself a little bit about this, although we didn't
know them. I can only imagine what was going on
for you know, Kaylee and Ethan and Zad. I mean,
this is so too much. You see the fellows of
Madison's room. It's obscene, And this guy is posing in

(01:00:47):
the mirror to see if maybe now he's got it right.

Speaker 5 (01:00:50):
I just feel like his hair was already kind of
back naturally, doing this did not really change his appearance.
I feel like it's I feel like it's something more.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
I think you're right.

Speaker 5 (01:01:03):
I feel like it's deeper. I don't think it's a signal.
I think he's trying to see what he looked like
in a certain way. Like And you have to remember,
at this point, he doesn't know that Dylan has described
him as having bushy eyebrows, right, so keep that in mind.

Speaker 6 (01:01:18):
It just I feel like it means something I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
You're probably one hundred percent right, I don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:01:23):
We'll keep it here.

Speaker 5 (01:01:24):
We're gonna keep We're gonna be taking your suggestics on
cases you think we should cover.

Speaker 6 (01:01:28):
Keep it right here. True Crime Tonight. This is Talk
Back Tuesday. We're talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney
Armstrong and Faddy move In, my two favorite partners in
crime chat. Yes, so talk about Tuesday. We are here
for it. The phone was a buzz in, so we're
we'll get to as many as quickly as possible. Let's go.

(01:02:04):
Do we talk that?

Speaker 11 (01:02:06):
Hey, ladies, I did find a story that was interesting.
I don't know if you've talked about it. Forgive me
if you have this law student Maya or Maya O'Brien,
who was caught in Dubai with cocaine and I think
she's been sentenced to twenty five years. I thought that

(01:02:26):
might be interesting to talk about. And I heard a
rumor that Bka was ianing an appeal or they found
the letter where he's bogging an appeal, so I thought
that might be interesting too.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
By what an interesting case. I've never heard such a thing.

Speaker 6 (01:02:45):
Yeah, I haven't heard of this one. What's it?

Speaker 8 (01:02:47):
Well, I did a little research because I knew this
was going to be coming up today, So I can
give you a little top line and we can maybe
dig into it a little further in the future show.
But in a nutshell here it is Na O'Brien. She's
a British law student from Liverpool. She was sentenced in
September of this year to twenty five years in a

(01:03:08):
Dubai prison for a drug related offense, and it's sparking
a lot of international concerns and calls for intervention because
people feel it's a bit of a harsh sentence that
she's receiving. She was studying law and she traveled to
Dubai where she was arrested on drug charges that authority
said violated the UAE strict narcotics laws. So there's a

(01:03:34):
lot of sort of her family and supporters in the
UK are appealing to the British government for diplomatic assistance.
I mean, you know, we're going to be frank about it.
What she did was wrong, but the kind of sentencing
sentencings she's getting people feel as harsh and a little
more detail on it. She was found with fifty grams

(01:03:57):
of cocaine. That is a lot at her apartment.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
How much is that? What does that mean in cocaine
cocaine land? Fifty gram? I'm asking only because I don't
understand math and leaders in grams.

Speaker 8 (01:04:13):
Well, I don't know leaders, but picture.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
Wise, I'm picturing a brick.

Speaker 8 (01:04:17):
Oh yeah, let's fifty.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
Monetarily it would be it was per Google between three
and ten thousand dollars worth.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
But does it look like a handbag? Is it bigger
than a loaf of bread?

Speaker 8 (01:04:32):
That one we're gonna have to dig into?

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Yeah, regardless, But like it was a knowingly received or
this is a knowing knowing thing listening, listen.

Speaker 5 (01:04:41):
I traveled to Malaysia and I stayed there for two
months filming The Mole for Netflix. And this is a
you know, it's not a secular nation, just like Dubai.
We were told very specifically what would happen to us
if we brought drugs, like very specifically what specifically, Oh,
it's twenty five years media jail, immedia and this is

(01:05:01):
probably no drugs there and even like gummies, right, which
is you know something I missed while I was over there, right,
and we were told very specifically what would happen to us.

Speaker 6 (01:05:10):
It's like straight to jail.

Speaker 5 (01:05:12):
Like no passo, no past, you know, whatever, no to
you know, you're straight to jail. And so I have
I feel bad for her. She's a law student, Like what.

Speaker 8 (01:05:23):
Is she's a law student thinking yeah, yeah, very I
mean not that this matters at all that she's very attractive.
She has a very like Paris Hilt look about her.
There was a what about our post people that are yeah,
well this was this is the New York Post headline
glamorous law student and coke bust sentenced for twenty five years.

(01:05:44):
And I don't know if you can say hell hole
in Dubai prison where rape is an everyday occurrence. So
it sounds like the circumstances, the kind of prisons that
they have there. It's just it's it's it's horrendous. But
what she did to your point body, she did do
something she shouldn't have.

Speaker 3 (01:06:04):
Yeah, it's the it's also the laws of the land
that you are in, especially if we're going to law school. Yeah,
it's where you are, so that that's tough. You do
need to be cognizant. And also I did just find
out that I tried to find out how many servings
fifty grams of cocaine is, And what I did learn

(01:06:25):
is that it's impossible to determine the number of servings
of an illegal suscess.

Speaker 7 (01:06:30):
A lot of.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Yeah, I didn't know how to find because I was
a very good okay, so to that end, Also, we
learned this from a man in Oox. Right, it's a
waste what you're thinking too, So we learned this from
a man Innox because Amana Knox touches on two things
that we talked about tonight. One is trauma responses, how
a person responds. We talked about that or in the
last hour earlier. Who knows how a person responds in

(01:06:56):
a trauma moment? A mana Knox was looking at serious
time because she, by by Italy's account, was thinking she
was being you know, laissez fair. I don't know why
I'm using a French is a French. She was a loose,
she was aloof right, she was smoochy with her boyfriend
of a week, so her she did not appear traumatized

(01:07:18):
enough in a traumatic moment and therefore she was judged
for it, and that tunnel vision served her a lot
of time, right, So that was a big ticket item
that I took from her conversation and the idea of
being locked up across the l in another world. If
there is one thing that a man in Knox has
taught us, she taught us many things, by the way

(01:07:39):
that stick with me deeply is you need to know
where you are going, what the rules are, what the
laws are, where the embassy is, who your emergency contact
number is, and like, listen, yeah, do not bring drugs
to another what planet are you on? Common sense? This
is like common sense. I don't think you deserved twenty

(01:07:59):
five years and I'm sorry, don't. Neither's wonderful, but that
is like bad judgment. Like, let's all learn from this
terrible lapse in judgment from a very smart person likely
allegedly no no, no as Yeah, and Amanda's a big takeaway.
I've gotten this a lot. I'm sure you guys have too.
You matter, Yeah, that's that was her. That was remember

(01:08:21):
one thing you matter?

Speaker 8 (01:08:22):
Right?

Speaker 5 (01:08:23):
Well, hopefully this Mia person knows that she matters, right,
because she does matter, whether or not she broke the
laws of I have no idea what a bad day,
a horrible day, and hopefully the embassy and the you know,
the British government can you know, maybe negotiate her getting released.

Speaker 6 (01:08:41):
I just don't know what there is to really talk about.

Speaker 8 (01:08:44):
Yeah, to buy, we've kind of covered it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
I do not go to Dubai with drugs.

Speaker 6 (01:08:51):
Are you insane?

Speaker 8 (01:08:54):
You know which case? I don't know if you remember
this the one that made me always think about how
you have to think about what you're packing and doing everything.
Remember Brittany the basketball player?

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:09:04):
Yeah, in Russia.

Speaker 8 (01:09:06):
Yeah, and that and that was like I think it
was just gummies or something. It was not even a
lot of whatever she was carrying.

Speaker 6 (01:09:12):
It was like a vappen, I think, or something.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
But she almost cost her entire life by the way.
I was in Brazil, but I feel like I've traveled
a lot. In Brazil specifically, though, I remember thinking what
are they doing? And you guys have probably seen this.
They wrap your suitcases, yes, in classic and saran rap
basically you know, the high end ceram rack. In my head,
I was like, why would they do that? Because sometimes
people slip drugs in your.

Speaker 5 (01:09:35):
Back the baggage there'll be one in this era and
he knows his buddy in the next country is.

Speaker 6 (01:09:42):
Going to pick it up. Yeah, and a dummy like that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
It's like, oh, where's my luggage? And I'm like going
off to my Brazilian vaca to see the world and like,
you know, go for a hike and hike. It was
such a bad fight like that lies liar executed myself.
But then you go with your luggage and little do
you know, someone has slipped you're a drug meal rugs

(01:10:05):
in your bag and you're looking at real time. Yeah,
I think that happened in Australia.

Speaker 5 (01:10:10):
A woman there was a documentary about it, and I
don't remember her name, but she was going to Bali,
I think, and they found like a ton of marijuana
in her boogie board bag and from what she got
sentenced to like life, but it was she says, it's not.
She says that somebody slipped it in, probably in baggage claim.

(01:10:31):
And you know, these are not secular nations. These are
run by you know, you have to be a certain
religion and things like that. You know, where it's totally one,
nobody is coming to help you in this case. In
Australia and if you remember it, we have a lot
of Australian listeners.

Speaker 6 (01:10:49):
Maybe you remember.

Speaker 8 (01:10:50):
Yes, it was I.

Speaker 5 (01:10:52):
Can't remember her name, but it was a fascinating story.
And last I checked on her, she was still in
this I saw this documentary fifty years ago. Whilst I
checked on her, she was still in jail and BALI, yeah,
do not bring drugs to another country, like.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
This is the moral. I mean, honestly, we're not even
gonna peel it back from further. But like you cannot
get do you not get on an airplane? Like common sense,
even if you're on drugs. We have to assume some
common sense.

Speaker 5 (01:11:22):
Yeah, come on, come on, especially going to non secular nations,
like do not do it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
When you say non secular nation, what does that mean?

Speaker 5 (01:11:31):
Religion is not compulsory, like you you have to be
a specific religion, the religious like Iran is run by
the Ayatola. It's a religious you know, right of course, Yeah,
like something around, right, they're not messing around, they're not
messing around. Yeah, so just be careful.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
I get such a cold chill, it's like I get
so like I go through baggage claim, I don't carry firearms.
I don't do drugs. I don't listen. I live the
most vanilla, like.

Speaker 6 (01:11:58):
I'm an angel.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
I've had a fun run. I go through the airport
and like I feel guilty. I'm like, oh, like you
feel like a little sweat when they're patting. Oh yeah,
can you imagine walking doing that with like what are
all those drugs in bad I would be a walking sweat.

Speaker 8 (01:12:19):
They must be.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Looking for presparation. That's probably a thing where they're looking
for humans that are perspiring massively at the border. Yeah,
because like your nervous systems like on fire, I can't
even imagine fully drenched.

Speaker 8 (01:12:38):
What else is? Okay, well we can do one more.
Let's see there's another talk back with another suggestion to Okay.

Speaker 13 (01:12:44):
Hey, ladies, I was wondering if you all had looked
into the Sushier biology case. He was found.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
Dead in his.

Speaker 13 (01:12:53):
Apartment in November of last year. He was the AI whistleblower.
His mom has done lots of interviews disputing the cause
of death being a suicide.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
There's a lot of suspicious.

Speaker 13 (01:13:06):
Things going on there, so it's I wondered if you
had looked into that, because there really haven't been any updates.

Speaker 8 (01:13:12):
Thanks, And that's another good one. Yeah, because I knew
this talkback was coming, I did a little digging into
it just to talk about it top line. But I
think Body, you're familiar with this as well. But basically,
Shadeer Bilagi, a twenty six year old former open AI
researcher turned whistleblower, was found dead in his San Francisco

(01:13:33):
apartment in November of twenty twenty four from what officials
ruled as a self inflicted gunshot wound. Now, he had
raised concerns about open AI's use of copyright, copywritten material
and AI training, and was expected to testify in ongoing lawsuits.
So that's where things make it seem a bit fishy

(01:13:56):
and unusual. His death was fueled with widespread speculation, family
members disputing the official suicide ruling and calling for further investigation.
So it's you know, we've not talked about this one,
but I find it fascinating. It actually makes me fascinating
about the whole AI world, which turned yes, but I think.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
This case is an important one. Honestly, I feel like
pretty versed in it myself too. As Body is also courtey,
I'm sure you are as well, we've talked about it.
This one actually is a real eye opener. The circumstances
are interesting and we do not know enough, but I
do think it warrants a bit of a deep dive.

(01:14:39):
I am agreed tell that and interested in whistleblowers in
general and in AI.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
I mean, this is hundreds of billions of dollars on
the line, lit so much so that in and of
itself is just pause for you know what is it?
The power corrupts, Absolute power corupts absolutely, and it just
everything deserves a second.

Speaker 2 (01:15:04):
This is absolute power corrupt absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:15:09):
Interesting and no, this is this is the case. I
think that I would be willing to dive with you guys,
if you want to say, let's do it, because I
seem to recall something about the parents saying that it
could not have been a suicide due to the trajectory
of the bullet.

Speaker 6 (01:15:25):
There there's a.

Speaker 5 (01:15:26):
Lot of differends of things too, and maybe we can
even ask jose So I think this would be an
interesting one to do. I really appreciate the suggestion from this.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
And by the way, even though we were just chatting
before the show or even the break body, you were
even We're all like, AI is here.

Speaker 6 (01:15:43):
Dude, Yeah, and it has real.

Speaker 5 (01:15:47):
Can I tell you about this video I saw today?

Speaker 6 (01:15:49):
Yes, I tell us everything.

Speaker 5 (01:15:51):
I saw a video of a man okay, and it's
at the top of the video, okay, and he aied
himself to look like Taylor Swift and he's giving like
this speech and the video morse from him to Taylor Swift.
I swear to god, I would not have been able
to tell you that this was AI. It was so
perfectly well done. And I'm like, if I didn't know

(01:16:12):
any better and he didn't show me that it was
really him, I would have literally thought Taylor Swift was
giving this speech.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
It was fun.

Speaker 5 (01:16:21):
And I am listen, what if somebody does an AI
of me, like breaking into Taha's like locker or something.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Do you know what I mean? Like, well, we would
stand up for you and we would true, that's right.
Well I don't know. But if I saw it on
camera and.

Speaker 5 (01:16:35):
Taha's and Tom has said, body did this to me
and he created this video?

Speaker 6 (01:16:40):
Ta, why are you setting me up?

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
I said, for any of this, no way, no how,
no way, no how, stick around.

Speaker 5 (01:16:49):
We have more to dig into.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
Keep it right here.

Speaker 5 (01:16:51):
True Crime Tonight. We're talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and I Heart Radio.
We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanieleidecker here
with Courtney Armstrong, body Movin. Welcome to Talk Back Tuesday. Listen.
The night is still young quite technically, so eighty eight
to three one crime, Join us or leave us a talkback.
In fact, let's toss to Adam for a talkback right now.

Speaker 14 (01:17:25):
Hey, ladies, love the show. My name is Jared. I'm
calling from the Pacific Northwest. I'm a little behind. I'm
listening to your doomsday murder episode and I just wanted
to tell you, ladies, I'm a little concerned for you
with you talking about these killers who are still alive
and bad mouthing them. Please be safe. They do have

(01:17:45):
followers and they can reach out.

Speaker 5 (01:17:48):
I know that all too well.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
Trust me.

Speaker 5 (01:17:50):
After you don't have f with cats came out, I
was literally hounded, even in real life. Yeah, I had
to call the police like three times. Oh wow, people
showing up at my house. Yeah for sure, I had
to move. Yeah, I completely listen. This guy is Jared.
Thank you for the concern. You're speaking the truth. I
have my CCW, I carry a weapon every single day

(01:18:13):
in my life.

Speaker 6 (01:18:15):
I am not the one to mess with. I promise
you that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
By the way, I'm gonna second that nomination. She's not
the one to mess with. And by the way, nor
am I. I have learned so much on this show.
This is not a dare no. But I'm not messing
around either, right, It's very thoughtful and it is and
he's right.

Speaker 5 (01:18:37):
These these people, these people that are in jail for
crimes that they've been convicted of, have fans. They one
percent have fans. And we know this, right, So every
time we say, you know FBK or you know something
along those lines where we're you know, kind of spouting
off about a murderer or a rapist store somebody that

(01:19:00):
he knows been convicted of a violent crime, someone out
there gets the little double horns, you know how you
say like a bell and the angel gets your wings get.

Speaker 8 (01:19:12):
Skin.

Speaker 5 (01:19:13):
And a lot of these threats come online too, a
lot of people online, but I mean they manifested in
real life.

Speaker 6 (01:19:18):
For me, yeah, I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
How what what is a doomsday episode that you guys
referring to. I'm not even just day bells, the day bells,
you know what. We were loose gooses that night. And
by the way, that was a weird night. Actually, I'm
glad we're talking about it because it has actually sup me.
We it was in it was a heavy night in
the country, and we sort of were like, let's talk

(01:19:40):
about the day bells a little bit because we're making
us h It almost seemed as though it was I
might have been a little glib even because we were
it was a dark time, and we sort of shifted
gears to whether it was Brian Coburg or the day
bells some of the cases that we have before, which

(01:20:01):
maybe it may maybe may have felt as though it's like, oh,
let's hop withut this instead, how much better? It's actually terrible.
So that's a fair point. And that was a fair
point to that night specifically, was.

Speaker 6 (01:20:14):
This the night that Charlie Kirk was assassinated or something?

Speaker 8 (01:20:16):
Correct?

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
We actually talked, We actually talked about it. We thought
it real time of like that came out wrong. And yeah,
by the way, that's a it's a double fair point, Jared,
because the neither you were listening to might make somebody
feel like, hey, really, what about me? Jell like a
little bit like what up, I'm guessing, But we also

(01:20:43):
kind of all blackout during the show. It is literally
a conversation, so we are humans and we're speaking in
the moment. But there also are some very significant ways
to keep yourself out of the easy find the easy
access of all that we've learned along the way through
other horrible tragedies that have been able to pay some

(01:21:05):
information forward. And Buddy, you have promised we're going to
do a deep dive on that too. We are unpacking
that and in cells the new podcast by the Way,
Idaho Podcast season three too, oh unpacked central happening there also,
so please download that on the iHeart app. But to
Jared's point, you know, everybody has to have personal where

(01:21:28):
we all have to keep ourselves safe the end, even
if it's not just the person behind bars, it's the
person who's just you know, obsessed, obsessed, or the person
who has weird thoughts that you know, we can't predict
this stuff, so it's hard.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
You can't predict where anyone's malice sort of if they
have you know, malice or something going on mentally that
they're going to project somewhere. You can't always. I mean,
there is you know, common sense safety. But yeah, that
is a real a fair point, and that was it
was almost like a sadness mania now that I'm remembering,
because that was a very strange night.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
And yeah, so are we sure that's the night, because
that would be interesting if it was.

Speaker 8 (01:22:13):
I don't remember if that was a I know it
was a heavy night. I feel like it might have been.
I'm going to have to go back and double check,
but I know it was. I think it was evening
we were talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:22:23):
But doomsday. I'm sure it was talking about Chad and Laurie.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
Yeah, I can't, but.

Speaker 8 (01:22:28):
But I can't remember what we why we shifted to that.
But but yeah, I appreciate Jared pointing that out and
saying it. And I'm sorry to hear body. Ye safety
that because it is important. And if anybody out there
listening as a crazy stalker, we all live in Dubai
and they.

Speaker 2 (01:22:45):
Don't play around there. That's right. Dead sentence.

Speaker 5 (01:22:48):
By the way, how did you do with that body?
I was terrified. I mean I was terrified. And you know,
at the time, my mom was still around and I
was taking care of her, so I was trying to
manage her you know, illness and whatnot. In getting you know,
pizzas sent to my house, people showing up, knocking and running.
I mean, I wasn't like they weren't threatening. Now, the

(01:23:09):
DMS I got were life threatening, like they threatened to
kill me and things like that. But you know, the
in real life stuff was more like just ding dong
ditching and sending pizzas to my house and stuff like
that because yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
And you had to move. I mean, think about it
that it's really a traumatic thing as well. Here you
are trying life.

Speaker 6 (01:23:29):
Yeah, totally your life, right, that's crazy. You gotta do
what you gotta do.

Speaker 5 (01:23:35):
I mean, anytime you become some sort of like and
I use this term kind of loosely public figure, you know,
you kind of put yourself on, you know, in the
in the spotlight, and people might not like what you
have to say.

Speaker 6 (01:23:48):
You have to it's a chance that you have to take.

Speaker 2 (01:23:49):
Yeah, and interestingly, as just a pet piggyback on the
in Cells Conversation podcast, anytime you put yourself on social media,
you were actually becoming a celebri or a you know, presence,
which puts you limited public, a limited public figure that
puts you in equal danger. So something for us all

(01:24:11):
to think about.

Speaker 6 (01:24:12):
Yeah, that's a really good, really good one. Do we
have any anymore?

Speaker 8 (01:24:16):
Yeah, let's get another talk.

Speaker 12 (01:24:18):
Okay, hey all, listen for from Canada calling. I just
listen to your podcast from yesterday about who are the
people that you're thankful for? And I just wanted to say,
I'm thanks to my mom Avanta, also from Canada. I'm
something for her and just the support that she's always
shown me and loved and yeah, that's all covering I think.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
Oh my goodness, wildfire love is it our heroes catching fire?
I love it.

Speaker 8 (01:24:49):
And we're going to be continuing that. I'm actually going
to be talking to our next hero, the one that
we that's next up on our list. I'm going to
save that all for tomorrow, but we're going to be
talking and we'll hear our new We're going to keep
this cycle going, by the way.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
Keep it coming, like it is such a welcomed it's
such a welcome thought, like it's anything happy happening. And
by the way, happy doesn't mean necessarily, Hey, I bought
a house, I I did all these great things. Happiness
could be. Hey, I got out of bed today and
took a darn shower, and it's like, I feel like

(01:25:23):
it's worth noting. So, you know, increments. Share your stories,
share your happiness, share your feelings, share your moments.

Speaker 5 (01:25:30):
And trust me, I think well at least one of
us will relate right to.

Speaker 8 (01:25:37):
Oh my gosh, Jehanie, you were sharing some happy news
that you just read about about the little boy, Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
My goodness, the little boy in the recent shooting the
Minnesota Catholic school. If you guys remember this, this is
now dating a bit, and you know, there was all
this news coverage they were there were like little elementary
school students, and there was this one little little boy
that I think we even spoke about it real time.
His name is escaping me real time, and he was

(01:26:05):
so cute and basically in the midst of this tragedy,
he like jumped on his buddy's body, saved his life,
by the way, took a hit. And this little boy
with the red hair was talking to the news and
we all were discussing it, saying, my friend saved my
life and that friends has just been released from the hospital.

(01:26:26):
And those later and we're hearing lots of the stories
from this time period that at least at least stories
of survival. I suppose I wouldn't say happiness.

Speaker 3 (01:26:40):
And well, there's another one from the very same Minneapolis
school shooting who this came out today and a seventh grade,
twelve year old girl. She was arguably the most seriously injured.
She had a bullet lodged in her brain and it's
been called a miraculus, this recovery. So that is, and

(01:27:03):
she got released today news of today.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
Let's see, I might have said Minnesota to Mins.

Speaker 6 (01:27:10):
What is the name of the scholia Minnesota?

Speaker 4 (01:27:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
Yeah, what was the name of the school that was
a Catholic school? Catholic school, Catholic school? Annunciation? I feel
like I want to say, be wrong.

Speaker 5 (01:27:22):
I think, yeah, but annunciation enunciation or something. Yeah, Catholic school. Yeah,
that sounds familiar, so tragic, so hideous, but like again,
it speaks to these young kids.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
This is the elementary school kids, the instinct to jump
in your friend.

Speaker 5 (01:27:42):
Wait a minute, So the kid that the person that
was released that you're talking about, so he was also
a little.

Speaker 2 (01:27:47):
Boy, yes, feature no, no, classmate was a little boy,
the little red haired boy. And accord, I see right now,
he's so cute. You've seen it. He was like the
cutest human it's ever lived. And he amongst many cute
humans in the school. But he was talking to the
press saying, this was very traumatic. In fact, my best

(01:28:07):
buddy jumped over me and he saved my life. And
if you don't want to have your heart ripped open,
imagine this little boy saying that his buddy, in the
midst of a school shooting, jumped on him and spared
his life. That little boy who could literally instinctively jumped

(01:28:28):
on his buddy like that, Is that a trained thing?
This is like in the bones. If we don't need
proof that the human behavior is so real and beautiful,
this kid just did it. And he's now been released
from the hospital. And that is heroism at its most instinctual.

Speaker 15 (01:28:48):
Talk about it, and it was it was Weston, West Yes, Weston,
I'm going to hold his last ten year old, and
he talked about the fact that his friend Victor saved
him by lying on top of him and yes.

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
Oh yes, he's been in the hospital and he got
hit in This little boy so ten years old. What
grade is that?

Speaker 4 (01:29:15):
What is that?

Speaker 2 (01:29:16):
Fourth grade? Fifth grade? Fourth or fifth? Yeah, imagine the
hirow and this and the fear that has come over.
We're not prepared for that as a young person in
this little nobody nobody is and what you wonder, what
does a human do in that moment of inflection? We
talk about this all the time to nauseum. Frankly, it
is like the heroes speak, what makes you jump in

(01:29:40):
save the day? It sometimes you are not trained for it.
This kid, Victor, he was not trained yet. He jumped
on top of his best friend and spared his life
and he has been in the hospital for all of
this time. Thankfully God blessed released. But it just shows
like like there's some there's something so deeply good and
everyone and all of us, and it's just in sinctual right,

(01:30:03):
Like sometimes that gets piled on with like noise and
then that becomes something else. But at its core, Victor,
it's beautiful.

Speaker 9 (01:30:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:30:16):
Well, well, I don't know if we have time.

Speaker 2 (01:30:19):
How do we follow up to all things? Yeah?

Speaker 8 (01:30:25):
How about I talk about tomorrow what we're going to
be focused on, which is we're going to be doing
our true crime and chill and I want to make
sure that everyone is you know, what we should be watching.

Speaker 3 (01:30:35):
I watched last night lover Stalker Killer on neglic You guys,
it's way to talk about this.

Speaker 8 (01:30:42):
It's a yeah, you were right, body, It's it's so far.
I've only gotten through halfway and I'm going to watch
the rest tonight. It's been a busy weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
Has been a busy way in mind. I have you
not how did you even stop it halfway through? I
have I do this.

Speaker 8 (01:31:00):
That's the only reason why I can't wait to get
back there. But it's phenomenal.

Speaker 5 (01:31:05):
It's one of those kinds of documentaries where you watch
it and that you literally cannot imagine the ending right
and as soon as you're like it literally takes your
breath away, and it literally never ever, I never want
to get.

Speaker 8 (01:31:18):
Going.

Speaker 2 (01:31:19):
I started watching it before the show and had to
stop it. I think I would have missed the show.

Speaker 8 (01:31:25):
I thought about it, but I mean, aside from like
the storyline, the way it shot, the cinematography so good.
So we're going to dig into that one tomorrow, big one.
So I'm yeah, what's.

Speaker 2 (01:31:38):
That documentary called again? It's lover Stalker Killer on Netflix. Yeah,
we should all get work for Netflix. I feel like
we're I swear we are not sponsored, or I'll take you.
I could use a best spot. You should just get
a geta.

Speaker 5 (01:31:56):
I have two shows on Netflix and I haven't written
anything from them.

Speaker 6 (01:32:00):
Well you say our lost Netflix. Okay, I helped to
survive COVID. Okay, you owe me something.

Speaker 2 (01:32:07):
Okay, that's true. I will say this. I owe you
my heart because you helped me survive COVID.

Speaker 8 (01:32:13):
Truly, truly true.

Speaker 2 (01:32:15):
Yeah, that is a true thing. By the way, Diddy
for hearing tomorrow. We have a lot too. I'm back there.
I hate to even say the word and drop it
on the out here, but all I'm gonna say is
this did He's back in court. Lots of unpack, lots
do impack. Listen, tonight was great.

Speaker 3 (01:32:32):
We can't wait to speak to you tomorrow night and
hear from you as well. And yes, stay safe, be good,
true Graham tonight.

Speaker 11 (01:32:40):
Back

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