Charlie Kirk Shooting Update + Accused Wife-Killer Brian Walshe’s Trial Twist

The investigation into the killing of Charlie Kirk deepens as the accused shooter appears in court for the first time. Meanwhile, the case against accused CEO-killer Luigi Mangione sharpens with new testimony from officers involved in his arrest. And in Europe, a fresh government probe into the stunning Louvre jewel heist uncovers security failures far deeper than initially admitted. Tune in for all the details. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight at iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Thursday, December eleventh, and we
are so psyched to be with you tonight. It's Thursday,
December eleventh, and we have a stacked night of headlines.
Accused shooter of Charlie Kirk appeared in court in person
for the very first time today. So much to unpack
there the trial of accused wife killer Brian Walsh. It

(00:43):
continues shocking new twist today though, so buckle up and
new details emerge about the arrest of accused healthcare CEO
shooter Luigi Mangioni. That pre trial does not seem to
be ending anytime soon, and also the investigation into the
love Remember they had that huge jewelry heist back in October.

(01:05):
Now we're seeing what the mistakes were in protocol behind
the scenes that allowed that to actually happen. So, ladies,
I'm so happy to see you. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here
with Courtney Armstrong. Body, move in. We have producer Taha
with us, and of course Sam and Adam are in
the control room waiting to hear from you. Eight eight
eight to three one crime or again. You could always

(01:26):
leave us a talkback. You guys have been great about them,
and listen. We know it's a crazy busy time. I'm
sure you guys are feeling it. We are as well.
The holidays are upon us and although it's so merry,
it can also be a little frazzling. So settle in
and welcome to the safe zone. Body, where do you
want to begin?

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Well, closing arguments are going to start beginning tomorrow in
the Brian wallstrial. This is pretty stunning actually, so try arguments. Yeah,
listen to this right. The trial today for the accused
mass stitutes its wife killer Brian Walsh, his defense attorneys
concluded their case in chief without calling a single witness. Wow, No,

(02:09):
they didn't call anyone. They had nothing to present. Brian Walsh.
For those who aren't who don't know, he's charged with
killing his wife on A Walsh on New Year's Day
in twenty twenty three. Brian Walsh has admitted to dismembering
her and lying to investigators, but he is contesting the
first degree murder allegation. Brian Walsh's legal team maintains that

(02:30):
he did not kill his wife on a Walsh, arguing
instead that she died of sudden, unexplained death in bed. Okay,
so he chose not to test Brian Walsh chose not
to testify today in his murder trial, and attorneys rested
their case Thursday morning this morning without presenting a single
shred of evidence, like nothing. According to Judge Diane for Near,

(02:52):
this marked a shift in the defense's approach. During a
sidebar yesterday, the defense attorneys had all indicated that Brian
Walsh planned to take the stand.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
So this was shocking. Well, I kind of have an idea.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
But I just.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
And then and then we'll get into like some ideas
like maybe like why this happened, because remember this was yesterday.
He was going to take the stand and then those
witnesses testified and he isn't now okay, So keep that
in mind. So when the judge asks again today whether
or not the fifty year old defendant was still you know,
going to testify, his defense attorneys replied that he would not,

(03:30):
adding that the defense would present no case at all.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 3 (03:36):
So they the judge of course, had a confirm this
with you know, the defendant Brian Walsh, and Brian Walsh said,
I will not testify. So moments after the jury entered
the courtroom this morning, Judge Forrenir dismissed them for the day.
Jurors are scheduled to return tomorrow morning for closing arguments.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Which I'm very excited about.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
I love closing arguments and trying and Judge Forrenier's instructions
before beginning to opiration.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
So what's the logic behind the strategy? Okay, stuff go okay?
I have a theory. First of all, I was desperate
to see him on the stand, and I thought sure
he was a shoe in. He's so ego driven, is
how he appears, and he seems so above it all
that he is the type of guy that thinks he'll
win everybody over, and frankly, I think that would have

(04:22):
completely sealed his fate. So good strategy, and he was
probably told to take it down a notch because he
does not come across very likable, you know, just from
an optics perspective. I'm sure his mother loves him. I'm
sure many people do. Clearly Anna did at one point
as well, But there is something about him that just
doesn't feel cozy or kind and I can't quite put

(04:45):
my finger on it. So I heard of like the
play of it all, because that's what sometimes, you know,
a trial is like a stage that I don't think
he would be doing himself any favors. And then yesterday
Anna's best friend took the stand, and based on your
great coverage, body, I went last night. I couldn't sleep,
so just, first of all, thank you, But second of all,

(05:08):
what I did was watch her testimony and it was heartbreaking. Yeah,
she was very upset, and that Anna was so beautiful.
She had such a sparkle in her eyes and it
is so terrible that this happened to her, and my
heart is so broken for her family at this time.

Speaker 5 (05:24):
So I think maybe the best friend.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Got in his head, Oh you think, Okay, here's what
I think. It does have to do with the best friend,
but it's a totally different thing. I think. You know,
one of the defense's things is, you know, Brian Walsh
didn't even know about the affair. Why would that anger
him enough to kill her? Right? Well, you know, if
you remember, she her best friend testified yesterday and by

(05:48):
the way, she was the last person on the stand, right,
so she's the last person the jurors are going to remember.
And she got on the stand. Her name was Alyssa Kirby.
She said that Anna Walsh had a crush on Fasto,
which the accused Brian killer Walsh was aware of. But
Alyssa Kirby testified she did not know about the affair,

(06:10):
only that they were friends. So I'm kind of wondering, listen,
it's going to look better for us just to let
leave that, you know, in the minds of the jury,
Like even her best friend didn't think that she was
having an affair. Why would you know? I think that's
going to be part of it. And it's like I
feel like them not presenting a case at all is

(06:30):
kind of like saying silently like this is so nonsensical
that we're not even going to respond to it.

Speaker 5 (06:37):
Well that's what Diddy kind of did.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Also, you know at his trial he sort of brought
very little to the table as well. He didn't have
anybody in his favor, So it is sort of a
move of saying this is so beneath me, and right,
I don't have to prove myself right, That isn't Actually
his job as the defendant is to you know, give
another theory.

Speaker 6 (06:56):
But I actually thought in Ditty's case that that the
defense team, that Didy's legal counsel did an unbelievably thorough
and convincing job at cross examining every single person that
they were able to kind of prove that way, and yeah.

Speaker 5 (07:15):
Sit back and say we've done it all.

Speaker 6 (07:18):
In this case, I almost I think, not the opposite exactly,
but it's almost like everyone that the defense would put
on when they were cross examined by prosecution, I feel
like it would explode any medical examiner.

Speaker 5 (07:32):
You know.

Speaker 6 (07:33):
It's like, how could this layman, alleged killer Brian Walsh
diagnose it? How can you as counsel stand up there
and diagnose it? Like I feel like there'd be too many.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Holes to be put or there was just but their
job was only to throw out a bunch of holes
to that extent exactly, know what, Like, you know, thinking
of the Diddy trial, how about that video that he
played of all of his good deeds? Did he can
you imagine Walsh Q used wife killer Brian Walsh whipped
out you know, all the merry times of yesteryear between
he and Anna, or him holding his babies for the

(08:07):
first time.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
You know how strange is They showed a photo in
court of Anna wearing like this puffy jacket, and the
defense were somehow able to convince the judge to like
blur out her face.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Was that the case for all photos presented with her?
The only one that I met the pictures of thought
it was.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
So weird And I don't know why. If you happen
to know, leave us a talk back on the Iarheart
radio app. Just download it, hit the microphone, leave us
talk back. I don't know why they blurred out her face,
Like shouldn't the jury see the victim?

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Well, sometimes they think that the beautiful, loving face also
can move a jury. That's why sometimes jurors aren't allowed
to see crime scene photos because they're so difficult to
look at. It's impossible to not associate that with a crime.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
The judge agree to that I really love maybe maybe
she really is. I did some like cursory research on
that today and there were just a bunch of people
with nonsensical answers that I didn't believe what they were saying.
So I just don't know why they would have blurred
out her face. But I would love to know. If

(09:17):
you know, leave us a talk back, I would really
appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (09:20):
But I think it could be as simple as the
reason they this is going back to why they didn't
put Brian, you understand, is because you know it's something
as simple as like, ask them a few questions about
those searches, and I think you could slip and accidentally
say the wrong thing quick and easily.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Sure, Absolutely, they can't come back from those searches.

Speaker 5 (09:40):
Reminds her, Yeah, what were some of those searches?

Speaker 8 (09:42):
Body?

Speaker 5 (09:42):
Does anybody remember.

Speaker 7 (09:43):
To think the worst thing to think of?

Speaker 5 (09:46):
Like, how long?

Speaker 3 (09:48):
How long does my wife have to be missing for
me to get her inheritance?

Speaker 6 (09:54):
Starts to smell, Yeah, my my wife is dead. We
share a credit card? Can I start spending today?

Speaker 4 (10:04):
How do you dismember a body?

Speaker 6 (10:05):
Murder?

Speaker 9 (10:05):
Murder?

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Murder?

Speaker 4 (10:06):
Like just insane things.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
But I mean it's really rare that defendants testify on
their own behalf anyway, I mean, that's not shocking to me.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
What's shocking to me?

Speaker 10 (10:16):
At all.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Is that the defense to put it on a.

Speaker 4 (10:17):
Case at all.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
That's the piece that's like, whoa, that's kind of insane
to me. But there's a lot of reasons why a
defense team might not call witnesses, And it could be
that the witnesses could hurt the case, like if they
have a bad record, or they're unreliable risk to your point, Courtney,
opening doors to damaging info on Cross, you know, because
some of these witnesses could just collapse in on themselves

(10:41):
right on Cross, or the defense strategy relies solely on
poking holes in the prosecution's case, just like you said,
stuff right, So you know, reasonable doubt is a really
important piece of the puzzle here, and there's nobody there's
no you know, if a juror is, if one juror
is like you know, meybe she did die suddenly, right,

(11:03):
They just have to keep putting that out there, right.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Previous health issues. Maybe she's had her exhaustion, she's been
commuting to a different city and under a lot of strain.
Her husband is going off to jail soon for fraud,
and that might have been anxiety producing and maybe she
just had like a heart attack in her sleep. I mean,
they could have explained a lot of things away. My
fear was that they were going to try to attack

(11:29):
her character and I hate it.

Speaker 5 (11:32):
I don't know so much.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
And he just kind of struck me as the kind
of guy that was going to go for it. So
I haven't seen his family. It doesn't appear that Brian
Walsh's mom or you know.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
It's really strange because you know, at the pre trial,
you know, earrings and whatnot. She wasn't able to sit
in on court because she was a witness, But I
don't recall her being on the stand.

Speaker 5 (11:54):
I don't think she was.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
No, well, maybe she was supposed to be horse right,
So if the defense had planned then yeah, you wouldn't
be able to say, yeah, that's why interesting.

Speaker 6 (12:07):
Interesting family would have all been presumably character witnesses.

Speaker 7 (12:12):
So do you think this move by the defense now
shifts your feeling of which direction things were going to go?

Speaker 10 (12:18):
Or No?

Speaker 3 (12:19):
I still think I still think that he's going to
be found guilty.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
I do.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
I always have concerns, you know, because there's no body
and there is no way to prove how she died,
right the tissue that the medical examiner was able to
get isn't going to tell anybody how she died?

Speaker 7 (12:36):
Right.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
What's interesting to me though, is that the defense was
able to say, oh, she died of this sudden death syndrome.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
How do they know? How are they able to say that?

Speaker 6 (12:46):
Well, I mean not so I've been jumping up and down,
you know, and asking our forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan
and legal expert Jared Farantino. But Jared, you know, Jared
had said, well they you know, you can put him up.
And it's kind of a circle. How do you prove
the unprovable? How do you how do you write?

Speaker 3 (13:05):
And that's kind of and that's the scary thing, Courtney,
is how do you prove the improvable? There's nobody, there's
no way to know how she died. So could the
jury come back and say, yeah, of course Anna's died, Brian,
And they don't know he pled guilty to dismembering her.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
They don't know that, but oh, how.

Speaker 5 (13:25):
Does it for me? That's a good reminder.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
So even the jury currently that's been hearing all of
this nonsense and his lack of a defense, they are
unaware at this exact moment that he has admitted to dismembering.

Speaker 7 (13:41):
The body as far as I know, Yes, But then
what's the logic when they're hearing him, hearing all this
evidence of buying a saw and buying like enough.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
I think I don't I think they know that he
is accused of it.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
I don't think they know that he pled guilty.

Speaker 7 (13:58):
Oh, that he pled guilty to it.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Okay, Wow, that changes it quite a bit for me. Yeah,
I'd be curious. You know, I'll do a fact check
on that too. That's a really interesting point. And by
the way, if anybody knows the answer, please let us know.
Interesting because you would think you see that last I
check the tools, the saw, all these things lined up
for the jury. I was feeling pretty assured as of
just a few hours ago, different than I did last night,

(14:21):
that oh, he's going down And is it possible that
currently it appears that if he is in fact only
convicted on the guilty charge of dismemberment and he's off
the murder charge, that he would only be getting us
three years or so.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
Right, I just affirmed, Wow, the judge will not be
informing the jury of the fact that Brian Walsh pled
guilty to line to the cops and the illegal disposal
of a body.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
That is huge ruling.

Speaker 10 (14:49):
Wow.

Speaker 6 (14:49):
Okay, so that actually changes a lot because then the
defense likely will say, you know, okay, maybe it's you know,
suspen just about the saw and et cetera, but the
cause of death, there's no way to know it, and
just put enough and then the jury will feel good enough.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Those searches, though, the searches, the endless searches, and the
hacksaw trip to buy all those tools is a little
hard to get beyond. Could they give him a higher sentence?

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Maybe get I think he could be advantageous to the
commonwealth that they don't know he did this or he
played guilty because.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
He's not offering a defense on why he bought the stuff.

Speaker 6 (15:27):
Oh right, Well, we will be following this and stick
around because after the break we're going to go inside
day six of the Luigi man Gioni hearing and later
Acus Shooter and the Charlie Kirk killing steps into court
for the first time True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Licker here with
Courtney Armstrong and Body move in and listen this. Brian Walsh,
accused wife killer, puts his defense to rest and closing
arguments are tomorrow, and just based on what we're hearing
today now, I feel all kinds of confused about this

(16:16):
potential verdict and I don't know if you guys have
an opinion about it or any deep insight.

Speaker 5 (16:21):
We definitely want to hear it.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Also, Luigi Mangioni is still in court, and it's so
relevant even just we're talking about the Brian Walsh case
and how certain pieces of very important information are unknown
to the jury real time.

Speaker 5 (16:37):
So we all know that Brian.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Walsh, the accused wife killer, has pled guilty to dismembering
her body, but the jury doesn't know that they've seen
the tools, they've seen him go to Low's, They've.

Speaker 10 (16:51):
Saved by suspicious shopping issue on the sall that is
very true, and his I think there was some of
his DNA also co mingled somewhere.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
They also know that they know that there were some
troubles in Paradise. They also know that you know that
he is plausibly the killer. But again, reasonable doubt is
a really hard thing. It is just takes one. So
now here we are with Luigi Mangioni, and the same
principles are applying.

Speaker 5 (17:21):
Right, how many things.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Can we keep out of the site of the jurors
when he does, in fact go to trial. You know,
I guess we are seeing how confusing that could be.
What do you think? I know you've been following this
so closely?

Speaker 8 (17:34):
Today?

Speaker 6 (17:35):
Yeah, today is day six of the pre trial evidentiary
hearing for Luigi Mangioni, and it seems like there's not
an end in sight super quick. It will continue until
next week unless things change. So Mangioni is the twenty
seven year old he's been charged with murdering United Healthcare
CEO Brian Thompson. This happened last year in December, in

(17:57):
the middle of midtown Manhattan on work morning. Now, Mangioni's
lawyers they're currently challenging the admissibility of key evidence to
determine what can and cannot be used at the upcoming
state trial. And today the court her testimony from the
higher ranking police officers who responded to the Altoona, Pennsylvania

(18:20):
McDonald's and remember accus shooter Luigi Mangioni was found and
arrested at this McDonald's after five days after a nationwide manhunt,
so interesting. The day began with Mangioni's defense team arguing
that the prosecutors were trying to prejudice mister Mangioni by

(18:45):
releasing the CTV Excuse me, CCTV footage that shows the
killing of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson and the aftermath.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
You may remember that, oh suddenly you have a little cough.
Courtney's got a little cough going, so we'll have to
just jump in. But yeah, this little ct footage, Courtney's
actually a very cute coffer. She also sneezes like she does,
like the quadruple sneeze like a little girl.

Speaker 5 (19:14):
And she goes had chewy.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Is that just I do the same thing you do.
You doable little coughs and sneezes.

Speaker 5 (19:23):
I like a hot mess.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yes, your little nuggets were.

Speaker 5 (19:30):
Exactly Everyone take your vitamin C.

Speaker 6 (19:33):
So it was the cc TV footage that was really
plastered all over the news last year, and then the
defense team also claimed that it was being used. They
called it a vehicle to litigate the case in the
court of public opinion as well as to distract from
the botched arrest of man defense team's words, Judge kept

(20:00):
it on the straight and narrow, and Judge Carrow ruled
that the video is not an issue at this suppression
hearing and went on to say, we deal with it
the way we deal with all the press this case
has gotten when we get to jury selection, so it's
going to be quite a.

Speaker 5 (20:16):
Road to get there. Wow.

Speaker 6 (20:20):
So the higher ranking officer is Lieutenant William Hannily, and
he responded and testified that he called nine one one
in New York on his way to the scene to
get the ball rolling, keep things moving, and he let
New York know we're acting on a tip from a

(20:40):
local business here and might have the shooter, you know,
allegedly Luigi Maggioni, and also continued to say that this
person matches the photos that your department has put out.
So Lieutenant Hansley testified that at that point on the
way over to the McDonald's, they had reasonable suspicion to

(21:04):
believe he had been involved in a crime of violence
in another jurisdiction and could be armed and dangerous, which
I think also seems incredibly reasonable. And if you guys
remember a couple of dame days ago, there was a patrolman,
Joseph Dettweiler, who had kind of a sarcastic response to

(21:28):
this call and said, oh, you know, it's like a
one in a million chance, or there's.

Speaker 5 (21:33):
No way that we have him.

Speaker 6 (21:35):
And this higher ranking lieutenant texted that patrolman what he
called a gentle reminder to take this possibility seriously, and
it was hannihly. Hannily also defended the warrantless search, saying
it was a Pennsylvania warrant exception and that police can

(21:56):
search the person and their items and they had every
right to do so, which I feel like, you know,
Jarrett Farantino laid laid that out as a real possibility.

Speaker 5 (22:10):
And then once.

Speaker 6 (22:12):
Mangione was taken into custody, Lieutenant Handley called back New
York City and said, quoting, we do believe we have
the United Healthcare shooter in custody. We're about five hours
from the city of New York and later gave the
address which the police officers came and the prosecutors are

(22:34):
expected to rest next week. Judge Caro is expected to
issue a written ruling. This bums me out a written
ruling on the evidence.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
In January no, no, yeah, we're gonna have to wait.
I am so pins and needles, are you kidding? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (22:56):
What's that?

Speaker 7 (22:57):
I'm just wondering why so far? Maybe is because of
the holiday season or like.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, the holidays just slow everything up. Think about it.
You know, things close, it's shut down, you have to
still see you know.

Speaker 5 (23:09):
There's juries and all kinds of stuff. The holidays screw
up all of that.

Speaker 6 (23:13):
Yeah, and also, you know, I think the judge also
wants to be thoughtful and yeah, for sure, really consider
everything and have time to deliberate in their own head
because this, I mean, this is such a pivotal everything
could hinge.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Upon this, and this still could be considered a death
sentence trial. Right. So, Initially when he was arrested federally,
it did appear that we were going to see death
sentence provisions at some point being thrown at him.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
But I haven't heard much about that since, well, this
is the state case.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
Understood, understood, Wow, this is the state case, but that
would still impact the federal case. No, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
You always come up with these really questions.

Speaker 5 (24:03):
I want to go to law school.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Because if you I'm just going to whis is why
This is because there's for sure a very smart lawyer listening.
So please give us the info. If these are the
state charges that are being disputed, and this evidence is
removed from the jurors vision when they finally do hear
this case, that some of this key information will not

(24:25):
be available. Okay, if he's found maybe not guilty on
the state charges, he's still going to be charged federally.
Is it just a whole new round of this or
does one not impact the other.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
Or are they different charge like the remember he had
those terrorism charge. Yeah, exactly, those were dropped. I don't
I'd like to know. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 7 (24:49):
That's a good one for Jared. Yes, he's charged with
second degree murder and multiple weapon offenses in New York State,
but separate federal prosecution where the death families.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
He's also tr in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 6 (25:01):
Yeah, so the first smaller crimes and the giving fake ID,
carrying that weapon.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Some of that though, But it's not a life sentence
and certainly it's not death.

Speaker 5 (25:14):
Wow. Yeah, sorry to bring up a question that we
don't have the answer to, but we will. We will
get the answer.

Speaker 4 (25:21):
We can't know everything that is so true.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
You guys kind of do know everything though, so I'm
actually pretty safe on that.

Speaker 6 (25:29):
As of this was about two and a half weeks ago.
Federal prosecutors put in a new court filing.

Speaker 5 (25:38):
This is on.

Speaker 6 (25:38):
The federal side obviously, and defended the government's decision to
seek the death penalty against Luigimanngioni and said that even
though because the federal case had a lot of hay
made about it because of some things that Pam Bondi
I believe had said about him that were inflammatory, right,

(26:01):
and said that.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
Is an issue in the Tyler Robinson case as well.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
What you're going to get to, which waiter, Yeah, yeah, yes,
I mean you know that you have government officials making
prejudicial statements about defendants. It's not a good thing because
it's used in their defense. It's used in their defense.
You can't, you know, I mean you can, you certainly
can do you know, say things, but gotta be careful.

Speaker 5 (26:28):
Wow, you gotta be careful.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
And if Luigi Mangioni walks, I don't think there's no
I don't.

Speaker 4 (26:35):
I really don't think that's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
I mean, I do think that the search of the
backpack was reasonable, you know, I do think that the
judge is going to rule that the search was you
know fine, and yeah they an event and like Jared
said last night, they would have found it eventually at
the station when he was being processed.

Speaker 5 (26:57):
It was inevitable.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
It was inevitable.

Speaker 4 (26:59):
He gave them a fan.

Speaker 5 (27:01):
That's so true.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
You always wonder, do you guys ever wonder what they're thinking.
So now here's Luigi Mangioni. He's in court every day.
He's putting on real fresh clothes. He's, you know, looking
like a presentable young man as opposed to being in
his prison clothes and what we know to be a
pretty bad location. I mean where he's being housed currently,
you know, according to Diddy in many other inmates have

(27:24):
said it's very tough conditions. Does he go back there
at night thinking this is it I'm going to get out?

Speaker 10 (27:30):
Like?

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Does he Does he feel hopeful or is he feeling regretful?

Speaker 5 (27:34):
Is he sad? Does his bad hurt?

Speaker 3 (27:37):
I think Luigi's a very smart guy. I mean, he
was a valedictorian, he went to a really great school,
he had a good job, he was a programmer.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
I don't think he's a dumb guy.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
I just so I don't see him actually putting a
lot of faith into this argument. I think the argument
has to be made or you know, the legit. It's
a you know, it could be a Fourth Amendment violation.
It certainly could be, and I'm certainly no judge. I
just don't think that it's going to be.

Speaker 6 (28:06):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
I can't help but think of his parents, you know what,
there must be writing, you know, and then and of course,
you know Brian Thompson's family, are they going to go
to the trial.

Speaker 5 (28:18):
I'm just so curious about it.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
I want to know why he left that backpack full
of monopoly money. I cannot get over this.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Well, he's going to want to speak at some point,
because it was so performative all of I said.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
It was like the Riddler was on the loose, like
it's going on. You know, there were these bullets with
the writing on it, the monopoly money, and the backpack,
and then he gets caught in a little town in
Pennsylvania eating hash browns. It's just so not what I
was thinking about this person when he was on the run, right, So,

(28:51):
like I was literally expecting like a super villain of
some kind of you know whatever, and then when he
was arrested and he made that remember him in Altuona
at the the Blair County Courthouse, I believe it was,
and he's you know, he was like, the American people
are sick and type whatever he said it was.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
I can't remember ad at that point, and I.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Was like, yeah, you know, I remember being like, yeah, dude,
because what he said was really profound, I believe. And
then you know, he's making these really weird arguments about
his fourth I don't know, I'm just disappointed.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, by the way, when he was being the moment
that you're speaking of, what did you say exactly?

Speaker 5 (29:31):
It was something like.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
The American people, this is the biggest scam and right ruh.
And he seemed at that point like he had completely
had a psychotic break And frankly, that's a little bit
where the case kind of fell off for me, where
I was like, oh, this is just a person who's
having a severe mental breakdown and this is kind of
the aftermath of that. But then that kind of fizzled out.
He seems pretty okay and buttoned up right now.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
So he said this is completely unjust in an insult
to the intelligence of the American people and their lived experience,
and he screamed it and they were like slamming them
up against the wall and it was at the mouth. Yeah,
and you know, it kind of riled me up a
little I'm not gonna lie, it riled me up a
little bit. I was like, yeah, fight for the people,
you know what I mean? But healthcare, yeah, just in general.

(30:17):
But now I'm just like, h okay, you're not. If
he would have been like, listen, yeah, I did it,
and here's why. Da da da da da da da
da da da da da, I'd be like, okay, I
can hear this, you know, bring it on. But now
he's like, you know, I just I don't know, I've
lost respect.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
I feel like, you don't like that he's trying to
have it both ways.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
If I boiled correct, you're absolutely you can't. What's the saying,
you can't eat your cake? And habit too but too
right back to the UNI.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah, full circle man one manifesto away from.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
And then yeah, and then his manifesto was just like
the targeted healthcare, it just was kind of junk, you know,
And listen, I'm not a fan of like, you know,
attacking people on the street.

Speaker 4 (31:04):
By any stretch of the imagination.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
But you know, when when he was on the run
and all this was happening with the bullets and the
monopoly money and the manner, you know, in your mind
is running wild, like what is going on?

Speaker 4 (31:15):
What's happening? This is like an assault on corporations? Oh
my god, my god.

Speaker 3 (31:18):
And then they just get this guy. Yeah, he's not
He's just like cowering in the corner.

Speaker 11 (31:22):
Now.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
I feel, I don't know, I'm very disappointed that he's
not standing up.

Speaker 5 (31:26):
Standing up totally fair.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Later in the show, I mean, come on, we have
Tyler Robinson for the first time appearing in court in
the Charlie Kirk assassination that we all witnessed. But first
we're going to go straight toward talk that.

Speaker 8 (31:40):
Good morning everyone.

Speaker 12 (31:41):
Just been listening to your updates on Brian Coburger with
the bananas. I really just think he wants to keep
his name out there, and you know, as I said,
no one ewing before all of this just really irritates
me that he's complaining, what's he think it's a straight
the hotel, full staff, five staff.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
I mean, seriously, he needs to be put where Giley
Maxwell is being put he thinks it's a hotel.

Speaker 5 (32:10):
I guess yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
I do think it's a combination of him wanting attention,
and I think it's three things. He wants attention, he
wants control, and this arpid, this this eating disorder that
he's got. I think it's a combination of all three
of those things.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
And by the way, let's not underestimate what a big
transition this has been. Remember for this entire time before
he actually pled, prior to that, he was being held
by himself in this like weird courthouse underneath in like
his own little jail. So he kind of had a
good thing going. He could watch TV through the you know,
through the bars.

Speaker 5 (32:46):
You know, he kind of knew everybody.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
He probably was probably maybe the only person that was
being housed in that particular location. We were always surprised
that he was there for as long as he was.
Now cut too, he's essentially on death row or as
close as.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
You as close to it as you can be, right,
and they don't have death row.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
I look this up.

Speaker 4 (33:09):
They don't have like a death row in Idaho.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Interesting, so he is that's why he's with Chad daybel
Of course, Chad Day Bell is on death row is
any but he's being housed in the same block, So
I was like, why is he with Chad Dabell.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
So that's how I know that. I was like, Oh, they.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
Don't really have like a death row scenario, but J
Block at this facility is as close to like a
traditional death row that you can get.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Wow.

Speaker 6 (33:35):
And by the way, if you hadn't heard us speak
about it before the ar FID that Body mentioned as
a potential reason for murderer Brian Kolbert going to be
complaining about bananas and that they are not up to
his standard.

Speaker 5 (33:50):
They're not the kind of an and as he wants.

Speaker 6 (33:51):
It's the whole complaint, and it's an avoidant restrictive food
intake disorder.

Speaker 5 (33:57):
So it is a it is a real thing.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
It is how a real thing.

Speaker 6 (34:02):
However, Yeah, he's not at a three, four or five
star hotel, right, he's in cell Blockjay.

Speaker 7 (34:11):
Bananas factor until Body brought that up, But that feels
that clicked for me. That seems a little logical. This
is my one way of now control. I can control
this whole scenario. So I think that's an interesting way
of looking at it. But yeah, anyway, it definitely resonated
with a lot of our listeners, because we actually have
another one.

Speaker 13 (34:30):
Brian Colbert Dephanie, it's Devin from Toronto. You've gone way
too soft on Brian Coberger, Like, if you didn't want
to deal with other inmates in jail, maybe you shouldn't
have murdered a bunch of fennis and kids. I understand
mental health difficulties, obviously, we all deal with them.

Speaker 5 (34:47):
But you reap what you saw.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
I mean, I totally agree. My old brother said the
same thing. And by the way, I blame body. It
was the body move in my my beautiful body. She's
so smart and she's so convincing that she basically told
me that I was being too tough.

Speaker 5 (35:05):
And I heard, I did.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Not know, but you were. You were very clear about Listen,
this person has been you know, they're in the prison system,
and this is what are the expectations of our American
prison system. And I actually got some like real kickback too.
I guess I forget what we were talking about. It
must have been about when he was complaining about vegan food,

(35:27):
and I guess I was a little hot and bothered
by that, and I got some like basically into a
disagreement at the grocery store online with a woman discussing it.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Did really tell me about this, so I realized I
was like scared.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Maybe I got scared. Straight, I'm like, okay, fine, give
him the damn bananas.

Speaker 5 (35:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
So, and it is, you know, there is some truth
to the fact that I do struggle now that there's
been some distance, and that I'm personally less in the
beehive of all things tonight to ho I mean living in,
breathing it twenty four hours a day, whether it was
on the podcast or making the documentary, And man, I
was just I felt so angry, really angry, and you know,

(36:10):
really on behalf of the victims' families, not of personally, but.

Speaker 5 (36:14):
It really twisted me up. And it's hard to imagine that.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
You know, people can complain in prison to your point,
you know, yeah, this is what happens when you murdered
for people, you should do that and as a result,
the conditions aren't going to be great.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
So get over yourself, right, And I don't want people
to get the wrong idea like I am by no
means a simp for Brian Koberger by any stretch of
the imagination, But if if Stephanie had committed a horrendous
crime and went to prison, they wouldn't be serving her,
you know, gluten food. You know what I mean, she's
you Celiac disease. You have to, like you be careful

(36:53):
and ar fid. It's not Celiacs, but it is. It's
a disorder. It's a legitimate disorder. And because we in
the United States of America are the best country in
the world, and we have developed this prison system to
you know, punish people who commit you know, horrendous crimes
and sometimes even reform those people. We have to treat

(37:14):
them as human beings.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah, you can have all the bananas. Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
I don't care what kinds of bananas he gets, right,
that's my you know what I mean, Like the banana
thing that's too far.

Speaker 7 (37:24):
Unless the banana like you're saying, like he can't swallow
it because.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Like a harder beginning fan, right, right, But even then
get a little hungry.

Speaker 5 (37:33):
I hear you.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Even Courtney's like rolling her eyebrows. Now I feel riled
of me too. Yeah, no, have cookies, Yeah no, I
mean I really do hear the points, and I struggle
a little bit with two aides and prisons, and like
part of me is like, I don't know that I
want to care, and then I sort of get in
prison head and then.

Speaker 5 (37:52):
I start to overcare. So yes, I totally hear you.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
I promise I'm not getting soft, but I am softening
and I'm going to put my armor back on.

Speaker 7 (38:04):
Yeah, no, it is.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
I just think it's an interesting it's an interesting discussion, though,
I did.

Speaker 7 (38:09):
And I go back and forth, much like you, Stephanie.
I go back and forth each day. Like I was
just watching a documentary, The Alabama Solution.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 7 (38:17):
Sometimes when I see the inside and horrific conditions of prisons,
then I start to go another direction.

Speaker 5 (38:23):
I'm like, Okay, in my.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Head, I watched the same I think that moved me,
that that particular documentary I just watched that recently. I
don't think you's so.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
Entrenched in an idea and like an opinion about something
that you're not able to sweat but you're immovable. Yeah,
otherwise you're going to break if you're too stiff. You
need to be able to bend.

Speaker 9 (38:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (38:44):
And there's shades of gray with all this, right, And
we were talking the other night about we all have
our different lines about different I mean, this is all
humans in almost every situation, and you know they can
move and shift and shook as we gather more information.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
I agree. You think about you know, so many families.
We talked about Brian Walsh's family, or we talked about
Anna Walsh's family, rather on his family. It's almost Christmas,
you know, these are the you know, it's coming up
on an anniversary.

Speaker 5 (39:14):
She died, you know, somewhere around.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
New Year's Day, right, you know, we think about the
Idaho four and Kaylee and Maddie and Dana and Ethan
and you know at this time their families are suffering
so much. You know, it's it's not easy. You know,
remember Ethan Chapin when he was a triplet. You know,
like there's a hole that can never be replaced and
you know, an empty seat at the table. So please

(39:39):
don't mistake my softening to eating habits in prison to
my disdain.

Speaker 5 (39:44):
Yeah, we act Brian Colberger day.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
He needs to be allocated in allocution, really do. And
it's going to anything prior is not okay.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
I think it's going to happen, and I think it's
going to happen within the next seven to ten years,
I think he's going to fade off into the sunset.
He's going to you know, want to control a narrative
of some some way. And within the next seven to
ten years, I think he's gonna either talk to somebody
like doctor Katherine Ramsland or you know something. I think

(40:20):
he's going to out he I think he's gonna he's
gonna spill the beans and candidly.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
And we'll talk about this at different time because it's
for a different project. But you know, I have connected
with a family member of his and it did shape
my thoughts as well. You know're just so heartbroken also, oh,
you know, and they're heartbroken for their victims. You know,
it's it's it's an situation.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
You know, people who commit these kinds of crimes, we
often forget their family. And I think that is an
interesting discussion to have, right, because they're secondary victims of
some kind as well, right.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Exactly, And they don't even given permission to grieve either
now right, and everything they know is now different too,
because they loved this.

Speaker 6 (41:02):
Person and their lives are largely decimated, the absolutely changed
forever and shrouded in not only you know, secondary guilt,
not even just victimhood, but it's it's really it's it's terrible.
It must be tough to survive.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
I mean, but what's the bottom line here, though, is
is that you know the victims in the Idaho case
for instance, you know Ethan, Xanna, Maddie and kay Lee,
they can't be called, they can't be you know, there's Brian.
Brian's parents and sisters can call him and talk to
him and.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Speaks fair, totally, fair, totally. I think they would agree
with that distinction. I think they would too, And.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
I think you know what's sad is that can't they
can't even come out and say that because they're just
going to get vilified exactly no matter what they do it.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
I had a very loving home, which is what makes
this tea so hot. Yeah, that's like the Luigi Mangioni
piece of it too, Like you want to find something
to be like, well, that's why they didn't.

Speaker 5 (42:07):
You know, we see the.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Alien doc you know, of Eileen the female serial killer,
and you look at her childhood you're like, well, I
mean one plus one equals too, right, Like this is
the worst possible childhood. She didn't have a fight and
chance in hell she's repeating historical trauma.

Speaker 5 (42:22):
Yeah, that all tracks. And then you get these outliers.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Of these young men who come from even Tyler Robinson,
who are even Tyler Robinson, Like these are people who
have educations and have some cash in their pockets and
have the ability to get jobs in their communities, Like
how does that go so.

Speaker 5 (42:38):
Far out of the world here.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
So I think that's part of why we're all so
drawn to these particular just thinking that.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
I think that's one of the reasons we're all so
like fascinated and why these outliers are usually kind of
the cases we end up talking about, yes, because they're
just like me and you, and they just what happened?

Speaker 5 (42:57):
What happens so horrific.

Speaker 7 (43:00):
You've had this normal background that it seems like that
all of us had so.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
And a loving one at that, like not even normal,
like exceptionally loving with a ton of opportunity, you know
what I mean. Like that's incredible. So yeah, maybe that's true.
Maybe that's true.

Speaker 6 (43:16):
Yeah, this is true crime tonight, and we are discussing
some really complicated issues brought about by talkbacks from you.
So thank you for these discussion points and questions. Keep
them coming, and let's go to a talk back.

Speaker 10 (43:29):
Now.

Speaker 14 (43:30):
I don't think it's gruesome at all. I think that
you should just give the warning before and people can
decipher themselves. But I think they need to kind of
hear all the facts if they if they want to.
So I think a warning is good.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
I love that we got that talk back.

Speaker 5 (43:47):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
We were just talking about this. We talk about this
every day. This is a real conversation that we all
have either before the show or in between commercial breaks,
because we're all getting a little conditioned to sort of
talking about very dark things because we have for a
long time. And if you're a new listener or you're
not a typical true crime a listener, you know what's

(44:08):
everybody's line in terms of the cooriness, right, So, and
then one step further, if you are a true crime
avid listener or a watcher, you know, you too might
have a thicker skin to some of this stuff. So
we want to make sure we're not like sugarcoating anything either,
because sometimes the facts speak for themselves. It's they're almost
unbearable to speak out loud or to read. But it's

(44:30):
part of it, and it's important because you know, the
victims need to have a voice here and we need
to know how they were treated or mistreated. So you know,
we're always asking ourselves like are we going to gory? Right,
So we really appreciate that feedback.

Speaker 7 (44:48):
But please, Oh, I'm just going to say, as long
as we I think the important thing is giving trigger
warnings for some of these because I actually have friends
who have said, like, sometimes it's so graphic, But then
I have friends on the other side who were like,
I want to hear every detail, So I think I need.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
That, right, Yeah, I'm I'm the person that I need.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
The other detail.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
Yeah, And so sometimes I don't even think about it,
and I need to be more sensitive to that, you know, like.

Speaker 5 (45:13):
No, you're very sensitive.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
No I am, But but I'm like you said, I'm
so conditioned after being you know, working on this kind
of stuff for decades, now that you know, you almost
become numb to it. I don't. I don't want to
be numb to it. I'd just see these horrific details
that none of us should be numb to. But I
I want every detail because it speaks to me about

(45:35):
what happened, right, like, and it's important in the storytelling.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
Absolutely for me, but everybody's different.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
Everybody was the part case we were covering the poor
years old who had her baby removed, and that's just
a hard case, right, it is important that we cover it.
It is.

Speaker 6 (45:53):
But I love that in the talk back a that
you took the time to thank you throughout, so thank
you and be that you said that it's important to
know the facts of the case, because for me, I
do think the facts of the case are important. And
then there is also a difference in gratuitous sort of
pontification of what if.

Speaker 5 (46:12):
The whatever.

Speaker 6 (46:13):
And then I always think of a victim's mother, sister,
sure cousin listening and thinking and absolutely so the facts
of the case when it becomes to gratuitous things are
I think where we try and land and stuff.

Speaker 5 (46:26):
I think we do.

Speaker 7 (46:27):
I think the three I can say, the three of you,
I think you do an excellent job of a great valui.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
I think we're all very different, but we kind of
meet in the middle.

Speaker 6 (46:35):
That's right, you think, Well, stick around because the man
accused of killing Charlie Kirk appears in court and we're
going to talk about the new findings in Louve Jewel heist.

Speaker 5 (46:47):
We've got that. We've got more true crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. Thank you so much.

Speaker 5 (47:08):
For the talkbacks. We eat them up.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
I love it, keeps us all in check and it
just is really great to hear your voices.

Speaker 5 (47:14):
So keep them coming, keep them coming.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Listen. We have a big thing, you know, so the
Charlie Kirk assassination. We haven't heard too many things about
any new forensics, and we ask every day and we've all,
I know, probably like everybody is waiting for all this
new information to come up. So finally today we have
Tyler Robinson, the accused, the accused shooter, and the Charlie

(47:38):
Kirk assassination in court for the very first time. I mean,
up until now, it's always been via zoom. It's always
been very quiet and private. And I'm hoping that we're
going to finally hear some new information because I can
only imagine that all of Charlie Kirk's fans and family
and you know, his wife and his children, that they

(47:58):
really want some answers.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Right and they want transparency too, and that's what this
has all been about.

Speaker 7 (48:04):
Right.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
So the hearings right now are all about media and
what the coverage and can cameras be in the courtroom
and things like that. So today, twenty two year old
Tyler Robinson made his first appearance in court in the
Utah trial over the killing of conservative influencer Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk he co founded Turning Point USA, and he

(48:28):
was fatally shot on September tenth, twenty twenty five, while
speaking at an outdoor event at the Utah Valley University
in Orum, Utah. We all remember this horrible video that
was shot and posted all over the internet which traumatized us.
All yeah, I mean I still think about that, like,
oh my gosh, it was terrible. Tyler Robinson was arrested

(48:50):
shortly after and charged with aggravated murder and related offenses,
with the prosecutors planning to seek the death penalty the
alleged shooter, Tyler robba since attorneys were in court to
seek limits on media coverage in order to protect Tyler
Robinson's right to a fair trial, and there were some
interesting things that happened in court in previous close hearings.

(49:12):
There was a close hearing in October twenty fourth, and
it was one of the things brought up in that
hearing was the clothing that Tyler can wear and the
judge order that he can work street clothes, but he
has to be shackled, okay, for like security reasons.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
All right, So.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
Now what's going on is they don't want images of
Tyler Robinson shackled out in the you know, in the sphere,
because it can be prejudicial to potential jury pools.

Speaker 4 (49:39):
Okay, so the first call not to just hold for
one time.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
And in case anybody doesn't understand why, because I always
thought this was pretty interesting.

Speaker 5 (49:48):
You think somebody's getting.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
They're going to a murder trial, them being in shackles
seems to track. But from a legal standpoint, it's imagery
and it makes them like they're already prisoner and dangerous, dangerous,
which is really interesting and by the way, very true.

Speaker 8 (50:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
Yeah, So when you see somebody on TV and they're
in shackles and they're being led, you know, by the elbows,
so to speak, you know, they look dangerous, they look guilty,
they look dangerous. They it can get in your head
and you're like, oh, that person must have done something terrible.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
So you know, that's prejudicial. And sometimes they just have
their legs shackled, their ankles shacked, but their hands are free.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
Or they'll have like the sweatter draped over their their
arms like a you know sometimes So in today's hearing,
the first part of the hearing would closed the public,
all right, So and in this hearing that was closed,
they addressed matters from the October twenty fourth hearing. Once
the hearing opened, both sides pointed out that the court

(50:51):
room camera had already aired shots of Tyler Robinson in
shackles and even picked up private defense conversations and close
ups of attorneys documents in screens.

Speaker 4 (51:04):
You can't do that.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
You can't do not do that, and that is in
violation of the the judges directive. Already the media has
messed up, like already, all right, and it's the first
time that you know, they've seen him in court and
they've already kind of blown it and this is going
to be a problem.

Speaker 5 (51:21):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Shame on them though, those specific people out as you know,
it's not all media, it's Yahoo is doing that, Like
that person should not be allowed to be in the
court room. Well, typically the media, but then that should
be a pool camera total camera also just for people.
It's like one camera is assigned to the courtroom and
then all the other media outlets, whether it's ABC News

(51:45):
or Fox News or CNN or the local affiliates, they
all pull from the same camera. So there were like
they're pooling the footage. Basically, you'll hear that a lot. Yeah,
and if that pool camera guy is not doing a
good job, but guess what he should get.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
What was interesting is I have never seen a pool
in a camera so close. I mean, you know in
hearings that we've seen in the past, it's like they're
really far away and you can see this was like
so close to Tyler Robinson, like the defendant in this case.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
I was very surprised. I've never seen anything like it.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
So when that happened, you know, this was in violation
of the judges directives, and Robinson's defense team asked to
stop the broadcast altogether, but the judge instead chose to
reposition the camera to prevent for their issues, and I
think that was a very smart move. They should never
have been where they were to begin with, in just
my opinion. So it several students who were at this

(52:43):
debate that Charlie Kirk got shot at attended the hearing.
They were there in court today. I have one saying,
I feel like being here helps it feel more real
than surreal. So I think some of the people that
witnessed this, I mean we witnessed it on the internet,
imagine being like a bystander that was just there maybe

(53:04):
maybe to debate Charlie Kirk, because you know, he that's
kind of what his thing was. He would debate these
college students. If you were on the right or the left,
he would, you know, debate you. And you know, so
even some people that you know might be on the left, right,
they saw somebody get shot right in front of them.
And so several students who witnessed that shooting did attend

(53:26):
this hearing. Media coalitions argued that open court safeguards the
integrity of the fact finding process and foster's public confidence,
opposing restrictions opposed by the alleged shooter, Tyler Robinson's defense. Now,
this is interesting and I agree with with miss Kirk,

(53:46):
the victim's victim. Charlie Kirk's widow, Erica Kirk, has pushed
for full transparency, stating we deserve to have cameras in
there to help prevent misinformation and conspiracy theories.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Yeah, good for her, and I think that's important.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Yeah, Robinson's legal team says that this pre trial publicity
reaches as far as the White House. You know, we
just spoke about this with luigiman Gione and Pam Bondi, right, yep.
Well now they're bringing it up in Tyler Robinson's case.
President Trump announcing soon after Tyler Robinson's arrest, with a
higher degree of certainty, we have him, and he added

(54:25):
I hope he gets the death penalty.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Like, oh, that's so prejudicial.

Speaker 6 (54:30):
I mean that sounds like not to make a joke,
but team Robinson because only that can help him to Like,
I feel like buttress the defense's argument against many things
because it is so inflammatory and keeping more stuff out
of the trial.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
Right, So, just for people who aren't familiar, Tyler Robinson
has not entered a playette, attorneys are raising. Oh and
also there's been a bunch of videos released of Tyler
Robinson circulating online that are showing him crying or having
some sort of outburst in court. AI is already on
the case.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Like, yeah, I was gonna say those are all fake, right.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Of course that never happened. So yeah, well so I
here's the thing. You know, we're talking about the victim's wife,
Erica Kirk. You know, she's pushing for full transparency and
saying we deserve to have cameras in there to help
prevent misinformation and conspiracy theories. And I understand we have
a talk back about that right now.

Speaker 8 (55:29):
Hiley uses Tara from Alberta, Canada, And I was wondering
if you guys have heard about the Charlie Kirk case,
but Candace owns take on it and the whole controversy
around that right now, and how she's got a scheduled
assassination and all of that. I want to know what
you guys think about her take and this whole thing
with the French government that she's got going on. Let

(55:51):
you guys think you.

Speaker 5 (55:53):
Well, we love you too, yeah, do we say about it?

Speaker 2 (55:57):
I mean, you.

Speaker 5 (55:58):
Can't escape it.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
I feel like, yeah, I burned down all of the
Rabbits can not escape it. Right.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
So, candas Owens has built a media persona around provocation,
like this is her whole brand, being provocative and often prompting,
you know, controversial and conspiratorial ideas that energize her audience
and drive her brand. Right, this is like her whole success,
and it depends on keeping people outraged and engaged. And

(56:23):
I think it's important for people to remember that.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
I gotta say, though, I'm embarrassed to admit this, so
please take this in the spirit it's intended. Yeah, I
was really not familiar with any of the players in
this prior to the assassination. I didn't know who Charlie
Kirk was. I didn't know who Erica Kirk was. I
wasn't aware of Turning Point USA. I wasn't a yeah, no, no,
I don't. I don't know what rock I was under,

(56:48):
but I was all all the players are new, the
the Gropers and the Nick Fuentes and the Canvas Owens,
like the entire you know. And so when I was
watching the funeral and it was like a you know,
stadium filled, I really have been living in a different planet.
So I'm really entering at a very specific stage. I
don't have all the backstory, and I just genuinely don't.

(57:11):
And so if I'm looking at it just today, moving
forward or from the assassination forward, of course I've gone
down all the rabbit holes. You know what I can
say about candae Owan not knowing what her previous comments were. Look,
she's a beautiful woman who's a great talker.

Speaker 5 (57:26):
She's real good at what she does. She's compelling. She
sucks you right in and I.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Get sucked in and I'm like, is that gird?

Speaker 5 (57:33):
Like that's wow?

Speaker 2 (57:34):
And she's very compelling. And then same you look at
Erica Kirk. I mean, she's the most beautiful girl alive.
And then there's something sort of pageanty that maybe reads
a little inauthentic. So then you go down that rabbit
hole and now you're hearing Candace and then you're hearing Erica.
I've watched her in all of the many interviews she's
done in the last few days, and I've adjusted a

(57:57):
little bit, and I wondered, you know, she gets somewhat
backlash from so many as well. That's very difficult as
a grieving woman, right And on the flip of that,
I wonder if it's just her pageant background, but.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
It might be because she does seem very like, for
lack of a better word, robotic, a little bit right
like she does.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
I don't know what it is but it rubs so
many other people saying that the Candace people is all
charged up. And you have, you know, understandably anybody who's
close to Kirk, you know, to Charlie Kirk and his
family and his friends and the people that love him.

Speaker 5 (58:29):
Are politely charged up.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
You have you know, all the government making very clear
statements that are in fact inflammatory about this Tyler Robinson,
who does in fact deserve a free, you know, and
unbiased trial. So yeah, we're kind of down the rabbit
hole in all of it, and I've just been kind
of not sure how to cover it because we don't
have any facts right.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
And you know, Candace is she's very smart. I don't
agree with anything she says in any capacity, but she
is very smart. She's very well spoken, she's very well educated.
But she never she never shows proof of anything.

Speaker 5 (59:05):
There's something that I don't know about.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
So and Joseph Scott Morgan, who's our forensics expert here,
he he I do trust, you know, on my life,
and he is somebody who is unbiased and does not
come from a religious standpoint or a political standpoint. He
looks at the science and when he says there is
nothing to see there that this is all legit and

(59:30):
that the forensics add up and that they will be
proven accurate. I believe him. So that's my only shining
light on that front. But I can see how it
can be real inflammatory and how people can get sucked
into all sides of it.

Speaker 5 (59:43):
I've been sucked into all four corners.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
I just want to I just want to remind everybody
that you know, being revved up and energized and engaged
in outrage, specifically outrage is very profitable. Yes, it's very
profitable because the truth is boring and doesn't sell. Okay,
keep that in mind. Keep that in mind. But inflammatory controversies,

(01:00:11):
things like that.

Speaker 5 (01:00:11):
Tyler Robinson changed his clothes so many times.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:00:16):
Oh yeah, I just don't know the answer.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
It's like the only outlier, real answer that I'm not
totally clear on. I can get on board with the forensics,
and Joseph has assured me that's the case. The autopsy results,
I'm sure we will infect see all of the things
that are like the big conspiracy theory items.

Speaker 5 (01:00:33):
I know those will get explained.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Oh no, we have just gone down. Candace has gone.
Candace is gone. She's like and specifically with the France stuff.
You know, she's accusing the coincident of France of marrying
a man and she's being sued by them.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Yeah, in a very real way, you know. I mean
that part I don't know so much about. And now
that's a big one. Maybe we cover that, okay, it's
also shift.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
I don't want to get anyone to repeat drunk.

Speaker 5 (01:01:04):
You know, that's the feel of we only want to
write that acts.

Speaker 6 (01:01:08):
Right right well, and earlier when you had brought up
Nick Fuintes, he has been all over the news as
well recently, and that's exactly right. And I actually watched
it was a two hour conversation that I watched most
of and goes back to what you were saying, Stephanie.
You know, there's the argument of knowing all sides, hearing

(01:01:30):
different perspectives, versus giving someone a.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Larger platform when to get so emotional.

Speaker 5 (01:01:40):
That's right.

Speaker 6 (01:01:41):
So it's it's interesting, and I don't know. I fight
back against the that facts are boring and I can't
argue that they don't sell as well. I can't, but
I love facts.

Speaker 5 (01:01:53):
I like it, but it's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Like it sounds more than the truth. Does, yeah, and
the outrage as it's rage.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
The reason it's called rage bait is because it's so
profitable and people fall for it all the.

Speaker 5 (01:02:11):
Time and sucked in and it just keeps you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
There are just pieces of it though from an optics perspective, sure,
of course some of it's weird, you know, like there's
just some weird stuff about it. There's like a lot
of pageantry, there's a lot of emotion at play. We
don't have any vacs frankly, so I'm assuming this trial
is about to bring some. But so far it's been
so tight lipped. There's not much really to cover. It's

(01:02:37):
not a conspiracy theory, right.

Speaker 5 (01:02:39):
Keep it here.

Speaker 6 (01:02:40):
We're going to cover the Louver update and a Memphis
mother survives twenty gunshot wounds. We've got that and more
true crime tonight. Welcome back to True Crime Night on iHeartRadio.

(01:03:01):
We're talking true crime all the time. I'm staff here
with Courtney and Body and we love hearing from you,
so thank you for the talkbacks. The love lots of
details coming in from the Louver. You'll remember our suitet
listener ed had at one point a big theory that
it was actually Courtney Armstrong at play. So she was
gone for a few days, and you know what she

(01:03:22):
does like Paris.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
I might add, and that might track, but I can
tell you it definitely was not her, because they have
apprehended those who did it.

Speaker 5 (01:03:32):
But it looks like a lot of things didn't go
right that day.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
A lot of things didn't go right that day.

Speaker 6 (01:03:37):
So there's been a new government investigation into this October
Louver jewel heist, and it revealed really extensive and highly
preventable security failures. Importantly, this contradicts earlier explanations by museum leadership,
and it also intensifies pressure on the Louver's director. So

(01:03:59):
you may remember, it was Sunday morning in October and
four thieves carried out, in broad day daylight a break.

Speaker 5 (01:04:07):
In at the Louver Museum.

Speaker 6 (01:04:09):
The thieves used an extendable ladder to enter the Louver
through a balcony. They stole Crown jewels that were valued
at about one hundred million dollars, and then escaped on motorbikes.
This all happened in under ten minutes, and the highest,
of course, prompted multiple official investigations into how one of

(01:04:30):
the world's most visited museums could be so easily breached,
I mean most visited.

Speaker 5 (01:04:35):
And also a jewel.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
In the crown that is Paris too, So it's a
such an importance, such an important symbol.

Speaker 5 (01:04:47):
So here's what we've learned.

Speaker 6 (01:04:50):
Investigators have revealed that the thieves approach and entry were
indeed fully captured on an operational camera, which undermines earlier
statements by the director of the museum, Lawrence de car
and security guards. So the security guards that live, they

(01:05:10):
work in a control room with multiple monitors picture like
the TSA, and these monitors carry live feeds that are
captured throughout the museum. However, there aren't as many monitors
as there are cameras, and so this means that the
security guards need to toggle between the feeds, and the

(01:05:31):
guards literally just missed it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:32):
They were looking at it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
They had those monitors with like the four you know
what I mean, like they're, well, they don't have enough.

Speaker 6 (01:05:38):
Yeah, I don't know, I mean they could have one
hundred and twenty four.

Speaker 5 (01:05:42):
No, they were just watching some other place.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Thinking, yeah, by watching, they're just you know, sharing their time.
It's like you see in the you know, in the
in the mall, like you're working at Macy's, you see,
you know, you can't be everywhere.

Speaker 6 (01:05:59):
Yeah, so that was a you know, that was a
pretty big deal. And as well, there was a pretty
big miscommunication between between the museum security and the police.

Speaker 5 (01:06:12):
And this is according to officials, the.

Speaker 6 (01:06:15):
Guards inadvertently sent officers to the wrong side of the building,
who the officers then had to double back to the
correct entrance, so that cost time and the police missed
the thieves by only about thirty seconds. Yeah, how grez
is that that? That's a bad day at work for

(01:06:35):
those guards. They literally were just like, you know, we're
at the left entrance when they were at the right entrance.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
So are you saying, had the security guards given them
the correct information, they might have caught them on the scene.

Speaker 5 (01:06:48):
Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 6 (01:06:50):
Because they missed him for thirty seconds and they had
to double back from an entirely different entrance.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
And remember, these jewels are still at large, even though
the the actual thieves are in custody. They are all
of them in custody. I believe, yes, right, they've all
been caught at this point. No one's still on the loose, right,
I believe that's correct. I'm pretty positive that's correct. But
you know, again, what a bummer. You know, these guys,
you know, created this big scheme and all the effort.

(01:07:18):
The jewels are somewhere, they're they're with probably whoever ordered
this heist to happen. There's probably a bigger dog in
the mix here that had these guys corralled up. But
these guys are looking at a lot of time. They
almost got away with it.

Speaker 6 (01:07:35):
Wow, they really did. And so investigators. Investigators state that
there were audits done on the louver security back in
twenty seventeen as well as in twenty nineteen, and those
audits had flagged the same vulnerable location the balcony and
window that the thieves exploited. However, so that was known

(01:08:00):
eight years ago that that was, you know, really vulnerable,
but that information never was conveyed to the current director,
Lawrence de Carr, when she became the director in twenty
twenty one.

Speaker 5 (01:08:13):
So yeah, it's a tough spot.

Speaker 6 (01:08:17):
So now there's political pressure on this director of the museum.
Some are arguing she should resign because it was such
a disgrace. Others are claiming that she was collateral damage
of this institutional dysfunction and that this these failures predated
her tenure and she didn't have the answer.

Speaker 7 (01:08:37):
So she's almost like a scapegoat that they're kind of using.

Speaker 5 (01:08:42):
Right because I mean, it's it's embarrassing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
Yeah, it's embarrassing if nothing else aside from everything else,
that's greed, So they you know, people understandably want someone
to blame and listen, looking at the director of the
museum itself is not a bad place to look, but
I mean it's a man that is a letsy move though.
Of all of the places, the Loove looks like it

(01:09:07):
would be pretty buttoned up, you know, like I would be.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
It's a pricey place to visit, and they don't even
have enough monitors for all the cameras. Like, to me,
it's ridiculous. Yeah, spend the fifty bucks on a monitor.
They're not extensive, and.

Speaker 5 (01:09:23):
It is so expensive to get in there, and.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
It's expensive to there. Have you guys ever been to
not to sidetrack to the Lorangerie Museum where the water
lilies by Monet are if you've ever get the chance, Yeah,
if you ever go to Paris, anybody ever goes, I
think it's like the most moving place. It's a small, tiny,
tiny little museum called the Lorangerie. I think I'm saying

(01:09:46):
it badly, but go with me there. And it's where
all of Monet's water lilies are housed, and it's like
in the sphere and it's it's actually extremely moving and beautiful.
Oh that sounds lovely, And I think you could never
steal the art to Paris calling your name, it is

(01:10:08):
calling your name's never been to France.

Speaker 5 (01:10:12):
Oh you will love it, Yeah, you would.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
One of my most favorite places. I would love to move.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
I'd love to see the Mona Lisa, like for I mean,
I love the Mona Lisa, So I would really love
to go.

Speaker 7 (01:10:22):
I don't know why I was underwhelmed when everyone is,
because it's the size.

Speaker 5 (01:10:27):
It's like a little bit bigger than an eight and
a half.

Speaker 7 (01:10:32):
Yeah, it was this big build up and you finally
get to it and.

Speaker 5 (01:10:35):
You're a line in your line, you're.

Speaker 7 (01:10:38):
Wait, yeah, okay, but the museum itself so massiveness, so
much you willie, I.

Speaker 5 (01:10:47):
Can't wait for you to go.

Speaker 3 (01:10:48):
I know, I just love Leonardo da Vinci like anything
that he did.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
I want to see, you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (01:10:52):
So, yeah, I don't know, such an interesting guy.

Speaker 5 (01:10:55):
So yeah, if you get the chance, I will plan
a France trip for you.

Speaker 4 (01:11:00):
Oh okay, let's make it happen tonight.

Speaker 5 (01:11:09):
Live from this end.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
I don't know any friends, so I'm just like like, like, well,
you're listening to true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. We've been talking about the
you know, the love and the heist and all the
shenanigans that happened there. And if you want to win
and give us a call eight and eight thirty one
Crime or his on the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app. Courtney,

(01:11:34):
I know you have another story to tell us my
understanding as you do at.

Speaker 6 (01:11:38):
Least, well, I do have a story, but I think
Taha has raising his hand about it back.

Speaker 7 (01:11:44):
Oh yeah, I was thinking let's save that story for me.
It's a little longer. I know what you're talking about,
the woman that was shot twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
Yeah, that's what I thought.

Speaker 5 (01:11:51):
Okay, it's incredible miracle.

Speaker 7 (01:11:53):
It's a bit longer, so let's get some time to
breathe them. But for now, I think Adam said was
raising his handies I got to talk back from Well,
let's hear it.

Speaker 5 (01:12:04):
Hey, ladies.

Speaker 9 (01:12:05):
This is Ana from Providence, Rhode Island, and I was
watching the Netflix documentary about Sean puppy Combe and they
mentioned the upcoming murder trial for victim Tupac Shakur.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
And someone who lived through the nineties. I'd love to
hear more information about this case.

Speaker 9 (01:12:23):
I did hear that it was postponed till next year,
but I'd love to hear more about it.

Speaker 8 (01:12:27):
Thank you. I love the show.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
How pretty is her voice? I know, I love all
the talkbacks so much. Yeah, thank you for calling me.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
Yeah, this is a case that I'm very much interested
in as well, So I'm super glad you asked about it. So,
Kathy D. His name is Dwayne Dwayne Davis. I believe
Davis or David, but anyway, Keffy D. He's accused of
playing like this central role in the shooting of Tupac
that happened in nineteen ninety six here in Las Vegas,

(01:12:58):
and it was it was supposed to be in February
of twenty twenty six, and I was like talking about
it last night, like, oh, I'm so excited.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
I'm gonna you know, well, guess what. It's been fostphoned.
Ah I wonder.

Speaker 5 (01:13:10):
If this doc had anything to do with that Postponemak.

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
No, they're saying they're saying that, well maybe I don't
know that could be Steph, but they're saying that the
defense team. The defense team is asking for more time
because they have so much discovery to go to go through.
They need additional time to go through all the interviews,
old police files, all the prior statements. You know, some

(01:13:36):
of the witnesses have died, many of them, so they've
got to go through all these statements and other material
that prosecution intends to present once the trial begins. So yeah,
Davis Kaffy d was taken into custody in September of
twenty twenty three and here in Las Vegas in charge
with first degree murder for his alleged involvement in the

(01:13:57):
Las Vegas drive by that killed Tupac.

Speaker 5 (01:14:00):
And he confessed to it. I think it's also worth
milling he did. He did. He confessed to it. Essentially,
you can't really can't it once you're in jail and
you're like.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
Really, it's like all certain, sure, but like do we
have to listen to the room, like you see everything
of it? He did a whole interview like it was,
but he wrote it in a book, you know, So
this is a guy that wanted to he wanted to
be found out at some point. It's like this guy
wasn't going to go to the grave not getting some

(01:14:30):
sort of credit for this, it seems like, and yeah,
I'm sure now the reality is sinking in that you
have a long life ahead and likely behind bars, and
that maybe there's going to be a hit out on
you because there's a lot of players involved, Puffy included,
allegedly allegedly allegedly, Yeah, maybe he's changing his tune.

Speaker 5 (01:14:49):
But I don't know. It's really hard to take all
that back.

Speaker 6 (01:14:52):
And there were some really minute details unless and you
guys will fact check me, unless I'm getting it confused.
From the Diddy documentary that was done by thirtycent, it
talks about the lead up to Tupac's death and people
being transported instead of just hopping on a plane from
New York in the cars. Multiple cars were rented, multiple

(01:15:17):
people were hired to drive it, and shifts across country
and it's written down and then it all corroborates, and
it is so specific that it's hard to say, oh,
I made that up, but it's true.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
Yeah, Like similarly too, I'm learning a lot of this
stuff from the dock. I wasn't as entrenched in this
Tupac stuff either when that happened. I mean, of course
I knew about it, but you know, I seem like
with Charlie Kirk, of course I know about it, but
I wasn't following it so much. So now I'm seeing it.
We were different lens. It is pretty it's pretty compelling,
you know, even just Eminem's, you know, rapper Eminem's all

(01:15:55):
of his lyrics Now I'm hearing everywhere differently and he's
saying the exact same thing his lyrics.

Speaker 8 (01:16:01):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:16:02):
And Orlando Anderson, who has since passed away. He was
Keffy D's nephew, nephew, and he the detective from the
Compton Police Department, and his name escapes me, but he's
very good. Filed an affidavit in Compton naming Anderson as

(01:16:22):
the shooter.

Speaker 4 (01:16:23):
As like in Kaffe, D was.

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
In the car with him, so I mean, there's definitely
connective fibers there.

Speaker 5 (01:16:29):
And then he was to kiss you, right he was murdered, Yeah,
I believe so, oh yeah, yes.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
That was, Yeah, it's been so long, right, Like it's
so much time has passed that I had forgotten a
lot of the things that I I was super into
this when it happened. I mean it was nineteen ninety six.
I was here in Las Vegas. I had just moved
here and tupackets shot like a month later. It was like,
what is going on with and my dad at the time,

(01:16:56):
Well back then he lived right near Compton and whatnot.

Speaker 4 (01:16:59):
He lived in Lynnwood, which is right there. You guys
know that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
You're right in there.

Speaker 3 (01:17:04):
And uh, you know, I was just very like into it,
and I have forgotten a lot that I remember. But
I'm definitely interested in the Kaffe d Trill, like one
hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (01:17:13):
If it was in February, I was going to go.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
I was going to go cover it.

Speaker 5 (01:17:16):
Remember we were about to like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
Send you send your little self with a microphone and
you'll be outside the courtroom secret service.

Speaker 11 (01:17:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Yeah, it was going to be the inside scoop. But
we'll see what happens from August.

Speaker 5 (01:17:31):
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 7 (01:17:32):
Ye Okay, speaking of docs, we were supposed to talk
about a doc and I just remember this too. Remember
that there was one the Carmen Family. Anyway, watch Yeah,
we did you watch it?

Speaker 5 (01:17:46):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
I keeping up with my studies.

Speaker 7 (01:17:48):
Okay, can we push that to next week because Thursday,
so we're not going to get into it, so of.

Speaker 5 (01:17:53):
Course, well, I think we got to be happy.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
And like I was feeling a lot of pressure to
watch the did you know I was.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
I'm so glad I did because it was so good.

Speaker 5 (01:18:03):
It's really good, so good.

Speaker 7 (01:18:04):
At first, I was like, oh, I don't know, I'll
try to get to it, and I'm like, I can't
stop watching this.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
It was so I loved about it, and I guess
I know I talk about it too much, but I
just like that. I think it does show a lot
of different perspectives and it lets the watch, the listener
or their watcher or the audience make their own decisions.
You know, like, just because we feel I take something
from it, doesn't mean that somebody else will take the
same information.

Speaker 5 (01:18:30):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
It's like, that's what's I think great about a documentary.
It shouldn't be too leading, that's true.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
While coming up next, I'm sure we're going to hear
more thoughts from Stephanie on the Diddy documentary and a Memphis.
Mom was shot twenty times, even in the head.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
Welcome back to true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Steph here for me
and body, and we are going to go straight to
a talk back.

Speaker 11 (01:19:03):
I was deeply moved listening to Hailey Robson, one of
Epstein's survivors. Huge respect to her for her bravery, insurance,
her story, and for openly sharing for political beliefs so
easy these days. Her all inspiring interview compelled me to
share a bit of my own story. My husband with
verbally and psychologically abusive, threatening divorce to jeopardize my green

(01:19:28):
card process and likelihood, although funnily you know, was also his.
But when things escalated, I fear for my safety and
that of my chance, and I called nine one one.
Immense gratitude to the Waltham, Massachusetts Police for their professionalism
and compassion. That night, they asked if I had anywhere
to go, Ironic, since I was the main bread winner

(01:19:50):
and the house was mine, so my name and have it,
I was paying for it. My financial independence gave me
the freedom to rebuild my life, which has being fabulous.
Ever saying that's why I couldn't agree more with your methods.
And I always always tell young women make your own money. Okay,

(01:20:12):
back to catching up on episode.

Speaker 5 (01:20:14):
Mark, I love you, right, I imagine you for sharing.

Speaker 4 (01:20:20):
Imagine the comps telling you where are you going to go?
It's your house?

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Well yeah, but.

Speaker 5 (01:20:25):
That's what happens. That is what happens.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
You get removed from a scenario. I mean, all of
it's really traumatic. And if you're in a tough situation
like that and thank god you're okay and you got
out so safely, you know you're you're so scared. You
don't want to stay home because that's also the hotbed
where you're unsafe. And many people don't have anywhere to go,
so you know, you end up staying and god forbid,

(01:20:48):
you don't have any money, which is the story as
old as time. Right, this is what happens. Yes, which
is what's a complicated thing to say out loud. You know,
you can't be entirely dependant on anybody financially, anyone.

Speaker 5 (01:21:03):
It's a terrible thing.

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
My grandmother used to tell me that she would stash
cash in the hems of her clothes, like I don't
know what she was running away with all those pants,
but like it was like you know, forty bucks you know,
or twenty dollars bills, stash would pin it in her
clothes and little by little you would like stack up
some cash.

Speaker 3 (01:21:23):
It wasn't until like the early seventies women could even
have credit cards or about wild crazy hear that?

Speaker 7 (01:21:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeeah makes sense to me.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
And I'm not disparaging on men, no, of course not.

Speaker 4 (01:21:36):
Yeah, except for they're the ones to marry rules who
did that?

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
But I.

Speaker 5 (01:21:41):
Did not do that either, did say?

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
Or out of sorry Courtney.

Speaker 6 (01:21:45):
Back to your grandma, Oh just she had six girls
and before each of them got married her own, you know,
her only advice was to hide your money, you know,
to keep it because yeah, people do find themselves.

Speaker 5 (01:21:58):
So thing, you.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
Should always always have a little bit of cash just somewhere,
just like a little.

Speaker 5 (01:22:06):
Blowout bag, just in case you need to God for bid.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
I mean it's almost a little how much enough for
a plane ticket, you know, in a couple of nights
at a hotel, or have a really good friend that
you know you can go to like a thousands too.
Yeah it sounds like a lot of money, I know,
but I mean plane tickets are four hundred bucks, Let's
say a couple hundred bucks, you know, a hundred bucks
a night in a room I don't know, yeah, or
even an uber to a friend's house. You know, you

(01:22:34):
can just find a trusted family member or a friend
in the good times. By the way, this is not
suggesting that everybody's running out of their marriages or a
penniless and.

Speaker 5 (01:22:42):
Abused by any means.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
But you know, when things are great, they're great, and
then when they're not, if you're not prepared or if
they're not I should say, God forbid. You know, you
need a you need a boogie plan, and not everybody
has it.

Speaker 7 (01:22:56):
Yeah, And to your point, like a trusted friend or
family or someone you can turn to that you can
even go to. And sometimes, sadly that isn't always there's
not even you know, a safe ending or happy ending
with that. Because I think Courtney has a story where
there was a woman that was trying to get away
with a family member and it still ended in tragedies.

(01:23:17):
So can you what was that one?

Speaker 6 (01:23:20):
Yeah, but so a very tragic incident, however, silver lining.
So in April of this year, thirty one year old
Carnissa Sam.

Speaker 5 (01:23:31):
She is the victim in the story.

Speaker 6 (01:23:33):
She lives in Memphis and Carnisa Sam survived a brutal
attack where she was shot twenty times by her estrange husband,
amd Sam twenty times. This included multiple shots to her head.
And this was on the end of enduring years of
alleged abuse.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
Well, now.

Speaker 6 (01:23:55):
The victim, Carnissa Sam is sharing her story. She is rebuilt,
holding her life and is determined to turn survival into strength.
Which is such a that's an unbelievable end to this.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
Wow, she is made of steel.

Speaker 6 (01:24:10):
This is a superwoman, right, so she as taha sort
of pints it at victim Carnissa Sam.

Speaker 5 (01:24:18):
She's a mother of four who was literally in the
process of leaving her abusive husband on the day of
the attack and her Nissa drove over to her apartment
complex with her brother to gather clothes. Well, when she
was doing this, the accused, her estranged husband, Ahmed Sam,

(01:24:40):
unexpectedly arrived and shot Carnie's brother and then fired twenty
rounds at the victim, Carneissa Sam. And this was all
while she sat in her cards. So yeah, so carne
Sis Sam does have some physical disabilities, difficulty using her arms.

(01:25:03):
This is due to several bullets that went into her head,
which again is miraculous that she is here. And Carniesa
recounts that the shooting was the culmination of years of
both verbal and physical abuse, and she had indeed tried
multiple times to leave the relationship. We had an expert

(01:25:25):
on who had said it was seven times, I believe
is the average.

Speaker 2 (01:25:29):
The average, you know, for anybody who's been the victim
of abuse seven times. If you've been the friend or
loved one of somebody who's the victim of abuse, you
know how difficult it is to watch them go back
seven times. Do you know how embarrassing it is to
be the person who goes back seven times and look
your family and friends in the eyes after you've already,
in your opinion, shared too much. It is brutal no.

Speaker 5 (01:25:52):
Matter how you slice it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:53):
There's no easy seat at that table, and you know
that requires a level of grace. But it's super important
because it's so dangerous.

Speaker 5 (01:26:03):
I mean that, the danger is so real.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
People get so fired up and they're so I mean
not I didn't mean that as a pun, like emotionally
charged up, certainly on the eve of a breakup or
of something. I mean, this woman survived twenty bullets.

Speaker 5 (01:26:18):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
She is a miracle.

Speaker 4 (01:26:21):
And I mean this is we know what happened to
her brother.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
I just think that he was he survived, Okay, good
for any many of these people to die like a yeah,
no one dies survived, yes, correct. And she was shot
ahead multiple times and was in a parked car.

Speaker 5 (01:26:43):
So think about that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
You're you're not even running or something you would imagine,
So you know, that's twenty shots to the body. Obviously,
she still struggles and has This is a story coming
out of Memphis. If I'm not taken one of our
many stations, because as a radio show, where syndicated, so
we want to make sure that we're covering some of
the local stories at the stations that we were actually

(01:27:05):
on air at live.

Speaker 5 (01:27:07):
So I thought this was a staggering case. It absolutely is.

Speaker 6 (01:27:12):
And the victim, Carney Si Sam, she's speaking out and
you know she she does face both a long physical
recovery and the emotional poll of surviving this trauma. Meanwhile,
the accused, her strange husband, Ahmed Sam, is currently in custody.
He is facing two counts of attempted first degree murder.

(01:27:35):
But Carnea Sam, she was trying to rebuild her life
and protect her children and.

Speaker 5 (01:27:43):
Trying to.

Speaker 3 (01:27:45):
She's gotten four kids to take care of, and now
she's going to maybe having these physical difficulties.

Speaker 4 (01:27:51):
Yes, yes, fingers for her.

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
I mean so, I'm just I'll hate it. You know
an important thing too, if you have the opportun unity
to donate any old clothes or any work clothes. There
any shelters and most areas have this. Excuse me, and
again we hope you'll never need these clothes. But I
can promise you more people than you think. Oh I thought,

(01:28:16):
I just how you've been in there. But there's donate
your clothes to a women's shelter because you know they
need to start over and start a life again and
oftentimes are leaving a situation with nothing in their hands.
Her daughters are so beautiful. Yeah, their bionic mom is

(01:28:36):
like going to make sure that she has credible kids
who are going to do incredible things on her beath.

Speaker 6 (01:28:43):
For anyone who's who is interested or compelled to give,
the family has launched a go Fundme to help with
Carnese Sam's medical expenses, and the community in Memphis has
rallied around her to raise awareness beacause Memphis is awesome
and so is everyone.

Speaker 5 (01:29:02):
Sure, And the.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
Go fund me is called voluntey, isn't it? They are
pretty nice here. I gotta tell you somebody who's not incredible.
And I've been here only a few months obviously, but
it's like people are so nice. Yeah, I'm not surprised
by that.

Speaker 5 (01:29:22):
I assumed that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
And listen, I thought people were so nice in Los
Angeles as well. So, but as a new person, you're
really you feel lonesome, when you're a little like out
of your element. You really notice when somebody is extra kind,
and they're real kind here.

Speaker 5 (01:29:37):
That's that's something I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:29:38):
Glad to hear, the rallying around her as Memphis is own, right,
that's right.

Speaker 6 (01:29:43):
And the GoFundMe is called Providing Care and Support for
Carnica Sam's four daughters, and it's smelled c U r
n I S S A one other thing we just
wanted to throw out for anyone, should you need it
or think you maybe should write it down and keep
it in your wallet and a hidden compartment. The Domestic

(01:30:05):
Violence Hotline you can call one eight hundred seven nine
nine seven two three three, or you can text begin
to eight eight seven eight eight. That's very simple. Eight
eight seven eight eight. That's the domestic violence hotline.

Speaker 2 (01:30:21):
And by the way, it was a good advice you
just gave there. Put it on a little piece of
paper and put it in your wallet, because today might
not be the day that you're ready to call, but
there might be that day. And you know, there's thinking
in the right direction. And you know, not everybody's in
that situation. There's so many beautiful couples in much love
in the air, but our hearts really do go out.

(01:30:41):
And by the way, you know, we did have an
extraordinary survivor from this whole Epstein saga. Eight days right,
eight days tell full transparency days.

Speaker 4 (01:30:51):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
And again I think it's really a testament too. I'm
going to remain hopeful in the moment that, you know,
it's a real high five to victims who have felt
too afraid or too embarrassed or too ashamed. God, shame
is a killer, you know. It's just like sometimes just
saying it out loud takes all the air out of it.

(01:31:14):
I can't say that enough. So thank you for sharing
your stories. Yeah, you know, no one's immune to escaping
trauma in any way. So sometimes just talking about it,
you know, and sharing it makes us all feel a
little more connected and a little more alone, you know.
I think that's what divides everybody, shame. That's a good point.

(01:31:35):
And I miss ed Ed And if you want to
talk about you know, release from jail, about the loop,
come on, Ed.

Speaker 5 (01:31:44):
We're going to miss you this weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:31:45):
And I'm a little upset that Mona Lisa is not
more protected. Okay, let me, I'm can I don't even.

Speaker 2 (01:31:50):
Mona Lisa was protected. I actually do think they were
probably all eyes all watching these jewels that were probably
a little less a high priority about that.

Speaker 7 (01:32:00):
I'm sure they cased the joint and they were like, Okay,
that area is, we're not going to go over there.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
And remember, like there's always a line, you know, you
have to wait in a little bit of a line
area to actually see the Mona Lisa. So it's not
as though that's an unpopulated area. This might have been
a little closer to the window where you know, there's
like oh, Crowns, maybe not as active of an area.

Speaker 4 (01:32:22):
Yeah, And I would think the Crown jewels would be
far away from windows.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
But apparently I would.

Speaker 7 (01:32:27):
Yeah, you would think, but you would think. So it's
a museum director.

Speaker 6 (01:32:31):
Just out tour, you know, elevator away, climbing the balcony and.

Speaker 4 (01:32:36):
They've got like wing cameras on them or something like.

Speaker 2 (01:32:39):
If you guys both, I would be petrified. You guys
would both probably be able to keep it cool enough.

Speaker 5 (01:32:45):
Not that you not that you would ever be a thief, obviously, but.

Speaker 2 (01:32:49):
If you were, like had to be as if it
was like, hey, your life depends on getting into that
building and somehow keeping it cool enough to do something,
and it was life and death. I don't think I
could actually come up with enough cool to pull it off.

Speaker 4 (01:33:03):
I think being in the mole, I could do a
lot of things. You know, you do it all like that,
do all this crazy stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:33:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:33:12):
No, I've learned that I could do a lot more
than I thought I could.

Speaker 2 (01:33:15):
Yeah, a cucumber, cucumber, Courtney Armstrung, I think I got
my pants is their DNA and Urine might expearns that's fair.
I would be like broken out my hives on my face.

Speaker 5 (01:33:30):
I would triple my own two feet, Yeah, I would.

Speaker 7 (01:33:33):
I would give it up before like as soon as
someone walks to me, Okay, I did it.

Speaker 11 (01:33:36):
Sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:33:38):
We'd be so confusing though, although we would be a
good cover because we'd be so confusing and so ridiculous.

Speaker 5 (01:33:48):
It's just trying to rob a band.

Speaker 2 (01:33:51):
It's the two stougures and then the two smart ones.

Speaker 5 (01:33:54):
Are you know your jewels?

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
And ends at the bottom of the show.

Speaker 3 (01:33:58):
Actually, that would be a funny comedy.

Speaker 15 (01:34:02):
You know, bodies in the van, you know, doing all
the analysis eleven, you'd sure be in the van. Yeah,
and I would feel very safe that you would find us.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
Guys, this has been a great night, so it's already
gone by, so quickly listen everybody. We hope you have
an exceptional weekend. We'll be back, of course, on Sunday,
so be sure to join us. We're trying all kinds
of new things on Sundays, breaking news. We love you,
Stay safe and have a great night.