D4VD’s Dark Mystery and Diddy’s Legal Showdown — Plus Talkback Tuesday

Diving into the latest headlines—from shocking updates in the D4VD case to Sean “Diddy” Combs’ courtroom showdown. Plus, we hear your talkbacks and theories, and explore the stories that have you speaking out on Talkback Tuesday. Tune in for all the details.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Tuesday, September thirtieth.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
How is it the last day of October already?

Speaker 4 (00:30):
Yond man?

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Oh my goodness, the last day of September.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm sorry, it's already October tomorrow see Sign of the Times.
I know, Thank goodness. The rent does not due until
the fifteenth. But listen, ladies, we have a stack nt
of headlines as always, this just in we've been a
buzz just before coming on air, and that big development
in the Sean Puffy Comb's case also known as Diddy.

(00:55):
He's doing court on Friday for sentencing. And we have
some new development as of literally ten minutes ago.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Also this, you.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Know, Celestre, this case and the pop star David that
we've been speaking about night after night after night.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Also lots to unpack there.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
And we're going to have this little conversation about Munchausen's
by proxy that is coming up because remember everybody. It
is talk Back Tuesday, and this is the night where
we all get to sit back and hear from you.
If you haven't left to talk back yet, no stress,
you can still do so. Just download the iHeartRadio app.
It's free, go to the right hand corner top right,

(01:35):
just press the button and boom your on the show.
Or you could always call us directly eight eight eight
three one crime or hit us up on our socials.
I'm Stephanie Leidecker here as always with body movin and
Courtney Armstrong, who officially has her voice back. Yah, it's back, baby,
It's back baby.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yes, it is voices back.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, that molifluous smooth styl's. I'm strong, I know to
quote the great Courtney, I'm strong to describe the court
being Armstrong that I love melifluous voice. So yeah, we're
all here and and ready to bounce in without further ado,
let's go to a talk back.

Speaker 5 (02:16):
I wish that they would give more info on Celeste's autopsy.
I think that the case doesn't really make sense for me,
especially since David's able to walk around and be free
when they found her body in his trunk.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
That's a fair point. You know.

Speaker 6 (02:35):
I mean, I think we're all kind of in the
same agreement with you, right, we are all kind of frustrated.
But I do want to emphasize though, and I think
it's important for everybody to keep in mind they don't
know a lot yet, and it is an open investigation,
so they're not going to like play, They're not going
to show their hands right now, right, They're not going

(02:57):
to show their hand. But I do, like I get it.
I feel like, you know, are we in danger? Is
there there's a killer out there? Like you know, it's scarer,
you know, like, but we just don't know.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
We just don't know.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Go like Corney, Yeah, I mean there's no believe me,
I hear. Yeah, it's been a long time. But there's
been no cause of death. This is not deemed a
homicide period, It is not deemed a homicide. Therefore, there
is no suspect. LAPD has been pretty clear about that.
So I just think they're taking cautious steps to kind

(03:31):
of what you're saying, body keep their ducks in a
row for as the investigation unfolds, and.

Speaker 6 (03:37):
You know, the more the cops like say things about
what's going on in the investigation, the more they tell
the killer what they know, and the killer can hide
like that kind of stuff. So it's just not something
that we normally see in homicide investigations. Nor it's very
tight lipped, and we're experiencing that real time right now

(03:57):
with board year Celeste, and I've d of a new update.
A newly released death certificate has confirmed that fourteen year
old Celestreevas. Remember she has been sitting in that car
for weeks, you guys, and her birthday was the day
before she was found, So she was never fifteen. Okay,

(04:18):
she was fourteen years old. And guess what, she was
not pregnant. So that has been that has come out.
That is new information. She was not pregnant, and the
manner of her death is still listed as deferred pending
further investigation and the toxicology results. As we talked about
last night. Her decomposed body was found on September eighth

(04:38):
of twenty twenty five in a tesla registered to singer
David and his name is David Bert and it was
parked at his home and then towed to a Hollywood
impound lot after being sitting out in front of his
home for quite a while.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Call me naive, and I may be.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
But is it possible that this is such a targeted
attack on Davia at the pop star? Yeah, like a setup?
Or is it possible that he's being framed. I interviewed
somebody today in a case that I'm looking forward to
sharing with you, But it was from one of the
perpetrators or accused perpetrators family members, and it offered a

(05:19):
really unique perspective because just being accused of something is
like game over, right, especially if you're a pop star.
Especially obviously in this case, there's a vehicle that is his,
no question about that. Maybe he wasn't there. Is it
possible that some friend or family member of his had
access to that vehicle? And is it possible that the

(05:42):
things that are being said about their relationship or about
him directly, maybe they're not true? And is this like
a jump to judgment. I just fear that twenty two
days later, why is there not an arrest? How is
David the pop star not listed as a person of interest?

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Even?

Speaker 2 (06:02):
And I feel like sometimes we see in the press
very often that there is a person of interest shared
with the media very quickly, and then you know, because
of course you know, you want to dig in more
and find justice.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
That could be really destructive. And is it.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Possible that that's the case here? I almost want to
believe that. And there's a lessed family. They must be
so devastated right now trying to put pieces together.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Or or was she missing? It's all like a it's
all confusing.

Speaker 6 (06:33):
I feel like if he is being set up, that
he'll be able to prove, Like, look, I was looking
for her. I was sitting text messages she had disappeared
three weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
And why wasn't he out to the press saying find her,
find her, find her? By the way, as I'm saying,
it's out loud, and why is he not yelling to
the press, find her, find her?

Speaker 3 (06:52):
Find her?

Speaker 2 (06:53):
If you're a loved one is found in a trunk
of a tesla, in the front trunk whatever we call that?

Speaker 3 (07:00):
What do we call that? Again? A fronk?

Speaker 2 (07:02):
It feels like wrong even saying but if somebody you
love or know, even or even though loosely is fine,
even if it's a stranger found in your front wouldn't
you be screaming from the roof. I know I'm saying
two different sides right now, So yeah, and with that
and thought real time.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
If David has any kind of representation, which I'm sure
he would, and I wouldn't his in his position, or
really any position of where it seems like I may
be accused of something, I would have a lawyer, and
good counsel would say lock it up. Nothing good is
kind of come from anything you say.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
Fair.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
That's what I suspect.

Speaker 5 (07:40):
Fair.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
We have a caller on the line right now. Can
we go to Venice. Welcome to the show, Venice. Thank
you for being here.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
What are you say? What's your question? We're so happy
you're here.

Speaker 7 (07:51):
Thank you so much for having me. I am super
excited as usual. I just want to add to what
you were just saying about the fact that if somebody
is missing, that is a loved one or a close friend,
your natural instinct is to want either yourself or someone
else to find her, find her, find her. So the
fact that all of this is happening and there was

(08:14):
no outreach on his end to sort of help to
solve the quote unquote mystery of what's happening. And I
also want to add to the fact that if this
is his tesla and it's attached to his cell, phone,
he is going to have information on when the trunk
or the frounk is opened. He's going to have probably

(08:38):
access to any type of video surveillance on a three sixty.
And I'm saying that because as a Tesla owner myself,
I have that access.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
So there's just a lot.

Speaker 7 (08:48):
Of things that, again going back to what you said,
just doesn't add up as to why he's still not
considered a suspicious person or personal interest.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
Can I ask a question about the Tesla because boy,
there a fall and like my thought on them are
and again from a distance, I don't have one, but
that they kind of are the smartest car in the land, right,
Like don't they drive themselves for all intensive purposes? So
I would imagine that you have your key and there's

(09:17):
some sort of you know, computer technology that's in that
vehicle that would really give real time, day to day,
minute to minute information about its use. How do we
not want to know that that exists?

Speaker 4 (09:30):
One hundred percent?

Speaker 7 (09:30):
And I'm direct to answer is yes, it's supposed to
be a non thinker's vehicle, so it allows the most
optimal phase fe features that there is possible. So again,
the attachment to the vehicle is based on the cell phone.
So when you're close to when your cell phone is

(09:53):
usually on your bought your person, when you're close to
the vehicle, there's no need for a key, which you
typically would have in addition into your cell phone just
in case you get you know, valet or car washed,
et cetera. But the car is attached to your cell
phone in every capacity. Everything that happens you get an
automatic prompt. So wherever, whenever something is initiating, you are

(10:16):
going to know that something or something is happening around
your vehicle. So at that point there's an opportunity for
you to interject and either lock the car or unlock,
or set off an alarm, or do whatever you need
to to bring attention to the vehicle to others. So again,
just having a tesla as the motive for placing the

(10:38):
body to me should have provided a lot of sort
of details or evidence. So my take is it's reminding
me of coburger, where there's probably a lot of evidence,
but you know, before they sort of like divulge and
vomit all of the information, they want to make sure

(11:00):
that they collect every detail possible before they say anything
that could potentially allow him to say, well, you know,
all I did was this member, I didn't kill her, right,
So that is my sort of short take on it.

Speaker 6 (11:15):
Thank you for the call, Deniece, like, it's very good insight,
and took the information about the tesla, and you know,
and we've been sitting here, we've been saying, like, why
didn't you know, why didn't he sound the alarm bells
because you know she'd been missing for let's say three weeks. Right, Well,
we know why he didn't do that, right, She's fourteen,
That's why he didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
But if there wasn't an inappropriate relationship and he had
put that on pause and that was sort of fact,
then he would shout that for their like, if there's
nothing to think, nothing to hide, if there's nothing to hide.

Speaker 4 (11:47):
What facts about that he put his relationship on pause?
I mean, I don't feel like there's any of this,
is there even there's not even as of yesterday, LAPD
said they're investigating the possibility of a relationship. Listen, every
single sign is obviously pointing one direction, but it's really
all conjecture.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
It is.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
You're absolutely right, and by the way, conjecture is tough.
Remember David has a mother, there's family. It's big business.
You know, he was on tour. I imagine you are
a young artist.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
Listen.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
This is a kid that went to school until the
seventh grade or something, and then was homeschooled thereafter, and
then fell into the world of music. And this was
this was the tipping point, This was the moment. Being
on tour as an artist is no easy thing. That
is also where you cross the line from regular person
to the real world of the business of music. So

(12:40):
here he is, he's on the eve of his tour.
This tragedy happens. If he's being framed or set up
or has nothing to do with it, it's really hard
to come back from that because the money's already lost, right,
so the business is already it's already in the tanker,
you know, good bet or ugly, And for family members
and people that love him, you can't put the genie

(13:03):
back in the bottle. So I get nervous about us
convicting before having an answer. But for sure, all that
to be said is a tough one. I would like
to believe that a person who was uninvolved would shout
from the rooftops despite any of the backlash because you
want answers for the person you love, or you at
least know them. We know that they at least had
a connection, whether it's you know, an inappropriate sexual relationship

(13:27):
or just a friendship or a big kinship or a
big brother.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
Maybe he was her protector.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
In any scenario, you wouldn't want the killer to be
at large.

Speaker 4 (13:37):
That's fair. But I mean, I'll speak for myself in
my life, and I have many people who I consider
incredibly close. There's also lots of them that I don't
speak to for three weeks, so I would not potentially
have any knowledge. There's just there's so many potential avenues
of scenarios that could have gone on.

Speaker 6 (13:55):
Yeah, but we she's fourteen years old. She's not you know,
she's not renting her own apartments.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Right, she's in sixth seventh grade. By the way, let's
just put fourteen years old. We're talking the time that
she went missing to the time that her incredibly tragic
body was found. We're talking a span of a couple
of years, right, So we're talking like sixth grade to
ninth grade.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Just to put that into perspective.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
We put the ages around and we use it so loosely,
but we're talking like middle school.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
She's a girl, and that she be.

Speaker 6 (14:27):
Staying somewhere, right, absolutely. I mean we don't know for
sure that she was staying at that house, but somebody
had to be taken care of her.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
Somebody did Exactly.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Was she in school? No, I don't even think she
was in school. How does this happen?

Speaker 4 (14:41):
Yeah, no records.

Speaker 6 (14:43):
She was reported missing, So I mean if she registered
forst school somewhere, that would have popped the flag.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
Right. Is that what happens? I hope?

Speaker 4 (14:51):
So yeah, so many questions. We will stay on top
of this and as more firm information comes out, we
will share it with you. This is True Crime Tonight,
and listen when we come back. Federal prosecutors want Sean
Diddy Coombs locked up for eleven years, so we're going
to fill you in. There's a little bit of breaking
news on that, and later we'll be having your DMS

(15:12):
True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of course,
with Courtney Armstrong and body.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
Move in and listen, everybody. It is Talk Back Tuesday.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Where we get free reigns to hear from you. We
are tethered to no story, to no headline. We just
want to hear your comments, So keep them coming, leave
us a talkback, or call us at eighty eight three
one crime, or hit us up in our socials. By
the way, we have some dms that I'm told we're
going to get to later in the show. So those
dms are not being overlooked. Rest assured, My goodness. There

(16:01):
are so many things to discuss though. The headlines are
hot right now.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
So off the press, off them perss is.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Real time, so you know, breaking news as we speak.
There's been some new developments in the Sean Puffy Comb's case,
you know did He is due back in court on
Friday where he will be sentenced. Now remember he has
been sort of waiting for his sentencing and has made
a plead to the court that he is now sober

(16:31):
and is remorseful and has seen the error in his
ways and is in very tough conditions. The conditions where
he's being housed, you know, are allegedly, according to him,
really like unkind and uncool. And the hope is that
for his lawyers that he'll be released on Friday for

(16:51):
time served, and the prosecution came today with their recommendation
and it's a little different court, Armstrong, what do you think?

Speaker 4 (17:02):
So federal prosecutors, they are urging the judge to sentence
Sean Combs to more than eleven years in prison, and
which is pretty steep. This is for prostitution related convictions.
But they are also citing the prosecution is citing unrepentant behavior,
extensive abuse, and boy, there's a lot of people to

(17:24):
back it up. There's over one hundred and eighty pages
of letters and other materials to support that he is
indeed unrepentant and physically abusive. So the breaking news that
just came out, we're talking about twenty minutes ago. The
judge who's presiding over the criminal case has rejected his

(17:46):
bid to overturn the prostitution related convictions or to secure
a new trial, which where the defenses to asks. So
this followed the arguments that were heard in court today.
So basically he got he and his team got shut down.
Didn't see him. I shut down, So it was just
filed and Judge I always struggled with this name, among

(18:09):
many others. Sue Marianium dismissed those two central claims from
the defense that the Man Act definition of prostitution should
be more narrow and that is what he has been
charged with is Man Act defenses right, right, But the
legal team has argued that the definition of prostitution should
be interpreted narrowly in that it should only apply to

(18:32):
those who engage in the sexual acts or benefit financially
from them.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Right.

Speaker 6 (18:38):
So he's saying because he didn't he didn't have the sex,
or because he didn't you know, benefit, he didn't like
he wasn't a him, right, he wasn't like taking an income,
he wasn't distributing, and he was wasn't right, is basically
saying that that's not prostitution.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
That's my understanding of it, and so it should be dismissed.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Can I jump in for one fast second just as
a clarity question, because this is breaking news, so we're
all learning about this real time. So in the spirit
of just like real time unpack he's doing court on
Friday eleven years Wow, that is no walk in the park, right.
That's a little bit surprising too, because just for the
like back story of it all, remember Maureen comi who

(19:17):
was the prosecutor in his previous trial, was basically dismissed
and fired by Trump and replaced with a new prosecutor
for the federal government. And you know that was under
like lots of discussion there was about that is this
political but bah bah, this guy's not playing any jokes
right eleven years is I don't know a lot. That's

(19:37):
no walk in the park. So he's playing all in
and listen, that's very real. They're really surfacing around this
prostitution part of it, which I find interesting and I
just think, I don't know all the answers in this one,
but he's being accused of basically trafficking women of cross
Lines that were sex workers and using them for his

(19:58):
amusement or etc. We do know he was having these
freak offs, right, Like that's at the core of it.
Just to bring everybody up to speed as a reminder,
there were these freak offs where there was like these
sexual plays that he was putting on and although he
was not personally having sex in said freak offs, they were,
you know, and I'm saying this offhand. They were renting

(20:20):
fancy hotels and renting them for three days at a time.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
And there's remember the baby.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Oil and all of the things, and now they're having
escorts or sex workers come to these freak offs and
maybe having sex with his girlfriend or his ex girlfriend
or his future girlfriend or who knows. He wasn't selling
that material, I guess is the distinction here, right, He
wasn't putting it on a live stream and creating a

(20:46):
buck from it. My question is, though he was using
it as blackmail, doesn't that count? And he was paying
for it, so isn't that And it was across state lines.
So I'm confused by the confusion, but I want to
understand it better.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
I mean, I think the blackmail is probably part of
what a lot of the victim's statements are saying of Listen,
he was a bad guy, and he uses I mean,
Cassie Ventura, his former girlfriend. She's moved her family, she's
got to house because she was afraid of potential retribution.
But Diddy was not convicted of blackmail. He was convicted

(21:25):
of transporting individuals across state line for illicit sexual activity.
He paid prostitutes for sexual acts and transported them across
state lines period the end.

Speaker 6 (21:38):
And by the way, it's worth noting I think it's
kind of important to note this that the Diddy defense
is also arguing that it's protected free speech because he
was just creating pornography. Because listen, you can create pornography
in this country. It's protected free speech.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Well, if you have hidden cameras in your house so
you don't even know that you're being photographed, is that
like considered free speech?

Speaker 6 (22:02):
While there's this thing called the three prong Miller test,
and it comes from like the seventies, from a case
I think it was like Miller v. Colorado or California,
And it has to have some kind like the general
public has to have some kind of value to it.
It has to have some kind of value. And it's
an obscenity test. And basically what the judge is ruling

(22:23):
here because the judge said, no, this is not a
protected speech.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
The judge is.

Speaker 6 (22:28):
Saying that this was too obscene to be considered of
any value. So just I do think that that's important
to mention and very and if you're just joining us,
please jump in. We're talking about Diddy and his Friday
hearing where who will be sentenced. It's not even a hearing,
it's sentencing, right, So I'm curious about so many things
when it comes to this. You know, we talk about
Cassie Ventura, his ex girlfriend who was nine months pregnant,

(22:51):
taking the stand, having video of her freak offs and
others who were participating shown to you know, jurors. You
know how humiliating, like the shame shivers are beyond And yeah,
retribution is a real thing because this was not a
very safe circle. We've heard that time and time again.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
So now the judge is saying, uh huh, and I'm
curious to hear how others think about that.

Speaker 6 (23:17):
Well, I want to hear what you think about it.
Give us a call eight to eight thirty one Crime.
We're right in the middle of talking about the P.
Diddy case and you know he has court coming up,
and the judge just denied a couple of his claims.
Give us a call eighty eight thirty one Crime or
hit us on the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app. We
have a talkback right now.

Speaker 8 (23:33):
In fact, they girl, So I just listened as a
Diddy episode and Stephanie should be in the courtroom because
her recounting all of the things was so powerful. My
issue with this man is that he doesn't seem to

(23:53):
be remorseful and money is. Since he has been imprisoned,
all he has been doing is coming back to court
with this movement, this idea. He wants this, really, he
wants that instead of doing the time and really repunting
and really rehabilitating, he seems like he is still manipulated

(24:18):
and trying to be in charge and throw around power.
He needs to be time where he has no other
motive than to rehabilitate.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
I know, it's like, can I just jump in. First
of all, it's such a you know, thank you for
the talk back. First and foremost, I wish I was
a lawyer, certainly I am not those so just as
a heads up, like you know, I'm just you know,
talking through it with you guys with as much knowledge
as you guys, so.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
That I was figuring this out.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
I was a ditty fan, so like FYI, so let
me just like set the stage with that. Had I
been or able to go to a white party back
in the day a thousand years ago, probably would have gone,
no stress. I do not think what you do behind
closed doors is my business. I could care less if
you're having freak offs. By the way, I did find
it interesting. I'm not gonna lie. I was all in
when I was hearing about like what, mostly because it

(25:12):
was a curiosity point. I don't think that's a crime,
nor do I actually care, nor do I get a vote.
That said, we saw that video on CNN. We saw
her be beaten to the ground. That was a tip
of the iceberg. Let's be real. Anybody out in this
who's hearing my voice, who has been the victim of
any sort of abuse, knows that that is what's happening.

(25:33):
There is happening really there. So we got a glimpse,
and victim after victim after victim had to come forward
shamefully and share these really tough tales, right of things
that they took money for, or things that they settled for,
or things that they had paid for in exchange for.
Those are tough reckoning moments, right. So it's a bunch

(25:55):
easier to say nope, it didn't happen to me and
like go away. But they came forward again and after
again after again. This was like so publicized too on
top of it, So what is the right answer here?
We know that he is according to him, he's sober,
he's seen the error in his ways. He has an
elderly mother who wants to hug him before she passes.
God forbid, knock on wood. He has daughters of his own,

(26:18):
He has children. There was all of this talk that
I personally was very sucked into with, you know, the
celebrities that were going to be one after the other
after the other after the other, that was going to
slam it to Diddy because there was this enterprise and look,
that didn't really happen.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
We ended up not seeing that.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Whether that was a cover up or it just never happened,
we'll never know. But again, like we're getting lost in
the sauce on like sematics of prostitution. And that's where
I feel like we're losing the messaging here until our
caller's point is did he not getting the point?

Speaker 6 (26:51):
While the victim impacts statements, Oh, we're pretty, We're pretty.
I read them and they were pretty For me, they
were pretty impactful. I thought, so now and they were
saying that, yeah, I you know, the victim impact statements
there were there were several, and to me they were
they were very heartfelt. And you know, if if and
I don't know if the judge is going to take

(27:13):
these into consideration when he's considering sentencing. I think that,
you know, there might be some kind of compromise with
the government, Like I don't think he's going to get
eleven years.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
I think that is crazy talk.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
And is that also a weird strategy by the government
to like overreach for such a large sentence knowing that
there's a very real thing you might walk on Friday.

Speaker 4 (27:36):
I'm pretty sure that it was twenty years would have
been the absolute pop the most severe sentence ten years
for each.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
I agree, so, but that was at regis by most standards,
based on what he was convicted of, right, So that's yeah,
I'll be unrealistic.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
But it is the top of what could you know,
what sentence you can get for that just on paper?
And you know Combe's team is asking for time served,
so asking for him to walk out. So I don't know,
the prosecutors are kind of splitting the difference. It's one
hundred and thirty five months, which is eleven years and
three months. I'm not quite sure why that specific math,

(28:15):
but we'll see. I think a lot of it will
come down to the judged and determining the sentence. You know,
what are in these one hundred and eighty pages of
the evidence. In addition to the victim's letters, they came
these impact letters. Came from Capricorn Clark, they came from
Deontae Nash, they came from his girlfriend Mia, they came
from Jordan who he was the chef, the personal chef, right,

(28:38):
and of course Cassie Ventura. So there's a lot of
people who speak a fear of retribution graphic abuse.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
And we know this was a very abusive lifestyle, right,
So that was a real eye opener. We got like
this insight into this world that you know, I personally
have never seen before. So it was like, oh, freak coughs.
Why does everybody have guns? Why are they doing drugs?
Why is the assistant going to do this?

Speaker 7 (29:02):
This?

Speaker 3 (29:02):
And that? It seemed like a really it was like
an open secret.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
It felt like, right, so listen, now we have this
light on maybe some really dark things.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
I guess the question is what's next.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
So Diddy's repenting, you know, remember he wrote a letter
also saying he's in unreasonable conditions. He's a repented man.
In his consideration, he wants to see his daughters again,
He wants to be a father, he's a mogul, time
to do better? Is that accurate or is there a
really scary retribution for about to happen? And if I

(29:38):
was one of the people that had the courage to
come forward into a New York courtroom and put my
face in there and everybody's talking about it, ourselves included,
is that the least safe place to be?

Speaker 3 (29:52):
And what does that say for all victims?

Speaker 4 (29:54):
Well, I think Jarrett Farantino and I believe I have
these factorits. What he had said about this was it
would be in Didy's best interests. He's like, listen, if
he gets out, he's not gonna want to have anything
to do with it.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah, hands clean, hands cleaner. But isn't that like the
name of the game. He can move on. But he
could also have others that commit retribution or whatever that
is in his name.

Speaker 6 (30:18):
In his name, well, listen, coming up, you're still sending
us a talkbacks with all about Brian Coberger and we're
going to start digging into those and.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
Without further ado, let's go straight toward.

Speaker 9 (30:28):
Talkback their true grandfriends. My name's Aliah. I'm in British Columbia, Canada.
I also took a look at those selfie photos of
Coburger and I saw that Maddie's window was visible from
the street, and some of those selfies were at night
walks or runs. Do you think maybe he was on

(30:52):
a run to look through the window?

Speaker 3 (30:55):
Thanks guys, really good question.

Speaker 6 (30:58):
You know, when there got happened, When this all first happened,
my first thing was I wonder if this guy was
a peeping tom. You know, I spoke about this a
lot actually in the beginning before we had before he
was arrested, I was just like, I wonder if this
is a beeping tom? So, yeah, is it Is it
possible that, you know, when Brian Coberger was out stargazing

(31:20):
or on his little runs at night, did he you know,
park his car somewhere nearby and kind of run by.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
I think that's entirely possible, but we just don't know.

Speaker 6 (31:30):
And there is, you know, there is evidence that you know,
his phone was in the vicinity of the home at
least twenty three times or some number like that. It
escapes me now at the moment, but it was a
it was a significant number. Is it possible?

Speaker 10 (31:44):
And Bonnie, can I jump in real quick because in
case anyone is listening for the first time, can you
describe that selfie that she's referring to or what's going Well, there's.

Speaker 6 (31:53):
Not a specific selfie she's talking about. She's talking about
the selfies just in general. But I can do that, so,
you know, over the last couple of weeks, the Idaho
State Police have released a number of photos from inside
the home. Of course, they're not showing us anything graphic,
as well as some of the pictures that Brian Coberger
had on his phone, and they're just a lot of

(32:14):
selfies that he had taken, and many of them he's hiking,
and many of them he's hiking and you know, eating dinner,
trying on new clothes, trying different haircuts. It looks like
maybe looking at what his body looks like in different
outfits and things like that.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
So that these are.

Speaker 6 (32:32):
The selfies that she's talking about, and she's just talking
about them in general.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
But if they're talking about them in general, the two
questions would be one. I think that one with the
thumbs up is sort of the photo that everybody's really
speaking about in terms of he's in that hoodie, he's
in his bathroom, he's sort of nodding to the fact
of hey, high five thumbs up, yet murders had just

(32:57):
been committed, if in fact that's the timeline, so scary.
And also, you know his alibi was I was out,
you know, looking at.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
The stars on a starry night.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
So maybe all of these hiking things were sort of
leading to some sort of an alibi or proof that
this is something he often did.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
That's very scary.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
I also just think in general, the idea of somebody
peeking through a window from a distance is what kind
of triggers maybe all of us and maybe our obsession
or fascination maybe is a better word with this case
myself specifically, just the idea. I'm a former New York
I used to live in New York City at some point.
And you walk in New York City and you it's
awesome because like the sky rises, you see like a

(33:39):
thousand different lives. Every different window has a different color,
and there's like activity and you can't really see in
but it's just you see, there's a world behind every
window from a distance. What if that's not the case,
What if you're really seeing into somebody's world from a
distance through their window. And I think that's the scariest

(34:01):
part of this, you said of peeping Tom. How scary
is a peeping Tom somebody who's just lurking and you know,
taking witness of you and tracking your steps and kind
of assessing your life from a distance. What we now
see as windows from a distance is also Instagram. You know,
It's like there's they're kind of one and the same,

(34:21):
like what used to be the old school home. Yeah,
high rise from a distance. Now we're all putting it
out real, real clever. We heard this last night when
we had our specialist on.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
She was so great.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Anyway, it's such a great question, and I don't personally
have the answer, but the photos do say a lot.

Speaker 6 (34:39):
They do, and you know we're never going to get
those answers. But I do think that was a really
good talk back, and thank you so much for it.
We have another one right now.

Speaker 11 (34:46):
Brian Coberger pulling his hair back in the mirror for
his selfies. I wonder, since he's always so absolutely expressionless,
if he's trying to see if he can make different
expressions just at that.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Very interesting, what a great aw I never thought, really good.

Speaker 6 (35:05):
Observation, But I'm still so like in my head, you
guys about him only doing this after the murders. I'm
still in my head about it. I do think it
means something. I don't know what, but maybe it is
maybe he is trying to see if his expression has changed,
maybe after, you know, post murder.

Speaker 4 (35:24):
I mean that might make sense. That might make sense
given questions that we've seen him post in yesteryear, you know,
whether it was in his searches or to other people
have basically boiled down to how do you be a
human being? Or whatever? You know, I feel like I
have no feelings, so how do I project a way
of being?

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Or is it possible that he was studying himself, Like
sometimes you really see yourself when you're.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
In a picture.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
You know, how many times have you thought, oh, my goodness,
I look of awesome in this photo and you're like
oh until you see the photo and you're like a
little bit less so or vice versa. Is it possible
that everybody was look yeah also eighteen seconds ago in
my face. Is it possible that he took a photograph
to see for himself? Do I look different? Am I

(36:14):
the same? That's why you see the look in my
eyes for him?

Speaker 5 (36:19):
Right?

Speaker 2 (36:20):
I don't know, it's also sad and scar Yeah, it's
interesting to talk about.

Speaker 10 (36:24):
You looking there weren't any marks or scratches or anything like,
you wouldn't have nothing, you would have taken that. Now
I take that back. I was about to say, could
he even looking to see any marks on my forehead?
Or but then why would you take that selfie?

Speaker 4 (36:34):
But yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
I don't know that you would take the selfie if
you weren't looking to have someone see it. I mean, again,
this is a smart guy that knew this is a
social a social imprint was going to exist, right, Yeah,
that was an escapable thing. We interviewed, you know, a
student that said day one what they learned about was
your social imprint and how phones, et cetera were trackable.

(36:57):
I mean this is like tier one if you're in criminology.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
One on one, right.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yeah, he's a PhD student, so like that was like
the first lesson plan. By the way, if you watch
CSI in Law and Arder, you would know that's yeah,
your phone.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
All of us are learning this real time.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
We all have social imprints based on everything we every
photo we take, every place we go.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
It's it's a little bit trackable. Surprising that anybody can
get away with a crime anymore, But in his case,
he had to somewhere have known that if in fact
this is true, and it's a disturbing look into like
humanity in a way.

Speaker 4 (37:35):
You sparked a lot of debate with that talk back.
Thank you so much. Let's go to another one.

Speaker 12 (37:40):
Hi, my name's Mac. I actually went to you and
I my freshman year in twenty twelve, and I was
always at that King roadhouse. Some of my fondest memories
of that year were in that house. My mom was
there for Mom's weekend. And so to know that that
happened in that house, like it just it makes me

(38:02):
so sad. And to know that it happened in Moscow,
a place that I loved, just horrible.

Speaker 6 (38:08):
You know, this is like the ripple effect that we
talk about sometimes, Like you know, Mac, who just left
us that great talk back. You know, now she has
these great memories of this house, and now hopefully she
gets to hold on to those memories and they're not ruined.
This is the ripple effect, right, because poor Mac, now
when she thinks about this great time she had in

(38:28):
her freshman year of college, which everybody should experience. You know,
this wonderful You know, you're out in your own for
the first time and it's so iconic, right, and you're remembering, God,
I remember when I was a freshman and I used
to go party at this house and now it's gone.
There were beautiful people were murdered in this house, and
now your memory is tainted. This is the ripple effect

(38:51):
that you know, this kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
And by the way you say that, and it hits
my heart really hard, because you're right. It's like, not
only are the victims and obvious their families and their
immediate friends. It's like it's unimaginable. That's generational trauma that
we're seeing. The ripple of that is kind of unimaginable, right,
But then you think of the perpetrator, for in this case,
Brian Cobrocker, his family, the ripple effect of that generationally

(39:17):
they did nothing wrong, so now their lives are completely
upside down. Any student student to this one was whether
it was at his school or at you know, we're
in Idaho, Like you're just going there to be like free,
loving and free and be.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
At the frat house.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Now you know that just feet from the frat house,
this tragedy happened. It's a muddy line, and that's traumatizing.
What could have been to any of the students is
probably equally scary, and sometimes that trauma doesn't kick it
until way later, Like thank god there wasn't.

Speaker 6 (39:53):
But what if they're one of the girls who was
there that night, She was going to stay the night,
but she decided to go home, and I think about
her all the time, you know, like she probably is
like what if, what if? It's just so sad?

Speaker 2 (40:07):
The DoorDash driver, how about the door dash driver exactly
who we know delivered food to you know, is Zanna
Kernodle minutes before their murders.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
We know that's fact. We know that she's on camera.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
She was actually outed on camera, you know when we
spoke about this for in length when this happened, she
literally caught eyes with you know, Brian Coburger. She caught
eyes with him going into what would be a massacre.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Why not her right.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Like, by the way, thank god, And then she got
a lot of slack. Also, remember we don't even need
to go back to that. This is also the effect
exactly families on all sides are affected. We don't really
think about what happens to what happens to all of them.
And yeah, anybody wants to comment, that was a really

(40:56):
important talk back, and thank you for leaving it.

Speaker 6 (40:58):
And Matt, you know what, if you can hear me,
Mac if you're listening, thank you, Matt. I want you
to remember the good times that you had exactly and
keep that in your heart and hopefully you know, when
you think back on your freshman year, all you remember
are the great times that you had in your mom coming.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
To busy and your mom coming to visit like that.
Thank you for the twelve said well said, Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
If you have anything to add, we would love to
hear from you. Eighty eight three to one crime. It
is a great night to call in. We'd love to chat.
We are talking about Brian Colberger and we are going
through talkbacks and let's go to another one.

Speaker 8 (41:33):
Hey, fantastic.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
Just a quick question.

Speaker 13 (41:36):
I know that Dylan interviewed e Bely.

Speaker 14 (41:39):
It was her second one, and I just wanted to
get everyone to take on it.

Speaker 9 (41:44):
I really wish we could list before Souls dress that
they continue.

Speaker 14 (41:47):
To release documents and I'm not really sure how.

Speaker 15 (41:49):
I'll feel about that.

Speaker 14 (41:51):
I hope you all have a great few days.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
I agree the Dylan interviews I thought were so devastating,
honestly devastating, devastating. You see it real time. This is
what devastation looks like. And this is what confusion looks like.
This is what a young person whose brain is collapsing
on itself.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
This is what real time trauma looks like. I hate it.
I hate it. I hate that we actually see it too.
That's why I hated the movie, the show Unknown Caller.
I'm seeing a young girl, Lauren traumatized line on bodycam.
I'm like, I cannot see it. I see Gabby Patito
and bodycam asking for her mom right before she dies.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
I don't want to see it, honestly. Like and we
make true crime, we're justice people. We want to solve things,
we want to make the world better, we want to
feel safer. Sometimes seeing this, I sometimes I think we're
seeing too much, which I know sounds wild in the
scheme of what we're talking about, But there is this
weird line and Dylan specifically, I feel very defensive of

(42:53):
I do think I mean bodycam.

Speaker 4 (42:55):
I do think it is absolutely for the greater good.
Of course, you know he said, she said of people
on both sides of law enforcement in heated altercations. But yes,
of course that was devastating.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
No, just to clear up the point, I'm not suggesting
that bodycam footage is not excellent. Of course, so do
it all the time. I also love, you know, cameras
in the courtroom transparency. I'm just saying there are some
moments when talking about Gabby Patito, which is a young
girl who lost her life on a road trip with
her boyfriend who ultimately murdered her. There's bodycam footage of

(43:31):
her before that, and it's harrowing. I think of her parents,
like she wanted help and didn't get it. We see
that in this case, Dylan, like, this information is it
is hard to hear. She is traumatized and got piled
on at the time, and that is like that is
too much, and it's you know, we're seeing the Charlie

(43:53):
Kirk Live like, what is the line?

Speaker 3 (43:57):
Is a question?

Speaker 2 (43:57):
I'm not I'm asking myself this question, and so I'm
just saying it out loud, talking it out with you guys.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
I don't have the answer.

Speaker 6 (44:03):
See, for me, seeing it makes me more empathetic, I
think for me fair, that's so fair me seeing it
makes me more empathetic and maybe even more defensive of her,
of Jo specifically, because.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
I mean I'd always been defensive of her.

Speaker 6 (44:16):
But seeing her like shaking and like body camp, seeing
her your sword in her room, seeing her remembering it. Yeah,
you're seeing her remember what, Oh my god, did that happened?
Because she's hungover? Remember like how many times have I
woken up and been like, oh my god, did that
happen last night?

Speaker 3 (44:32):
You know what I mean? Like, and she's so young,
she's seeing it, and these are empathetic in your mind.
This is not what your mind automatically goes to. You
assume that there's somebody partying upstairs, or that somebody had
a hookup or a friend over, or it got too loud,
or the cops came. It kind has gone to them
many times.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
That is, you're watching her process the real scary world,
real time, and it's harrowing.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
Listen, stick with us at the top of the hour.
Not only are we going to get to more of
your talkbacks, we also have plenty of dms to read
out loud that have been handpacked by TAHA and give
us a call a and a three one Crime True
Crime Tonight.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
Done, Don Don Welcome back to true crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
On iHeartRadio, we're talking true crime all the time. I'm
Stephanie Leidecker and I head u Kat Studios, where we
all make true crime podcasts and documentaries.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
By the way, please check out in Cells.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
It's dropping a new episode tomorrow, Episode three. Also on
iHeart and the Idaho Massacre season three. All of us
are contributing to the effort and listen. It's talk back Tuesday,
so we get to talk back to the talkbacks. So
come on, leave us your messages, just download the iHeartRadio

(46:01):
app or just join us live eight eight eight three
one crime or hit us up on our socials.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
Where should we go next? Next?

Speaker 4 (46:09):
Talkback to?

Speaker 3 (46:10):
Or no or DM no. By the way, we're doing
dms now because we all get a ton of them,
and Ta apparently gets a ton of them, so he's
given us some secret dms for for is that the
game we're playing right now?

Speaker 4 (46:23):
Well more or less.

Speaker 10 (46:24):
I just wanted to get so many talkbacks and dms,
but we all spend as much time with our dms,
so I thought maybe we can each read a DM
and then we can just have a conversation about some
of the directions.

Speaker 6 (46:35):
We don't know what each other has, right, so I've
kept secret and yeah I haven't. Okay, I just want to.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
Make sure I have a test of your knowledge envelope.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
I feel edge of us.

Speaker 4 (46:50):
Yeah, breaking open now, OKAYO. Hi, this is Caterine from Brighton, Missouri.
I was wondering where they do you guys think that
Didty and Epstein ever worked together? Don't you think it's
strange that they're both linked to Trump? Yet did he
hasn't had anything to say about it? PS. I love

(47:12):
your show. I listen every night and it totally makes
my life more bearable. Thank you for thank you all
for everything you do. So first of all, Cadrin, thank
you very much for that. I have a couple of thoughts.
To my knowledge, Didy and Epstein did not have any
working relationship. I did cursory research. So if I'm wrong

(47:34):
eight to eight three, one crime, call and let me know. So.
I don't believe they ever worked together. Do I think
it's strange that Diddy hasn't had anything to say about
if he does have a connection to Epstein strigularly through Trump. No,
even if they were having pajama parties with just each
other every day, I think they has no benefit to

(47:56):
mention and hey me and Epstein anything. So that's my
two cents.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Step me.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
I will say I did a very deep dive on this,
and again I'm not the arbiter of all things. I
don't think they operated amongst each other. What I find
interesting about both cases is there's just some similarities about
the themes of the cases. In both cases, we're talking
about real wealth, real power, real influence, right, and what

(48:23):
that circle looks like if you step into a circle
where a there's real money involved, which really praise on
the vulnerable who don't have it. If you don't have
money and somebody again sometimes it looks real fancy on
the other side, so you can get sucked in very quickly,
and you kind of can be targeted and are very

(48:45):
vulnerable to being wide eyed to this very powerful world.
I think Epstein and Diddy this is my personal opinion.
This is not like based on New York Times research.
I'm just saying personally my instincts, the themes are the same,
and luring people into your world in exchange for you know, stuff, money, access,

(49:08):
you know, in.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
Viddy's case, music deals.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
In Epstein's place, there was so much money involved right
now that you're dealing with a certain echelon of people.
I don't think there was crossover, but I do think
the themes were the same, and I therefore think people get.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Away with a lot of stuff.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
And the biggest one probably is allegedly allegedly allegedly the
idea that there were cameras around Diddy's world, or that
he was videotaping these you know, freakofs and then using
those freak off videos against the participants, whether it was
his ex girlfriends or somebody in his circle, to say

(49:47):
that your mom is going to get fired from her
job because I'm going to share the freak off video
we just made for the last three days, by the way,
drug fueled drugs that I'm supplying a room, that I'm
supplying in cash, that I'm I'm creating, all the characters
I'm flying in escorts, et cetera. The fact that that's
being used as blackmail for control, I think that's the

(50:08):
real theme that I think we're all scratching at. And
in that case, Epstein, that's the that's what we're scratching
at Also, the players are different, but the themes are
the same.

Speaker 10 (50:19):
Yeah, And even I did a little digging beforehand, there
is no public or verified information that links Epstein and
Ditty together, so.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
I think there might have even been, And correct me
if I'm wrong, if a listener knows better. I think
there was some conversation early on when Diddy was arrested
that Diddy had to sort of praise Trump and like
bow down so that he would.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Get a lighter thing.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
And you know, so that only infers that maybe there
wasn't such a connection. Yeah, but I don't know for sure.
I don't think that that was there. I don't believe
that there were any operations operating simultaneously in their worlds.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
If that's the question.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
But the enter or the world we're calling it enterprise,
but it's really circles, circles of influence, and how that
can be really alluring for somebody who wants to have
a better life and is being told they will, and
then in reality the doors closed behind you and you're
forced into really compromising positions.

Speaker 10 (51:21):
Yeah, I agree, Well that was I think that was
a good, good answer and a good DM from Cadron.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
So yeah, thank you, Cadron coming.

Speaker 10 (51:29):
Who's next? Actually, Stephanie might be up next you.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
No, oh no, I don't have my glasses on and
I can't read. We all know I can't read, okay,
so okay, friendly reminder, I can't read, so okay, I'm
pulling up my it's this one's kind of directed to
body about the Delphi murders.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
Okay, so okay, bear with.

Speaker 10 (51:48):
Me, Body, just a real quick top line of the
Delphi murders for someone out there who's not familiar.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
I mean nothing, but yeah.

Speaker 6 (51:56):
So Delphi murders were two teenage girls, Abby and Libby,
who were murdered while they were basically hiking and taking
photos of themselves, you know, being teenage girls, very young
teenage girls, in Delphi, Indiana, February thirteenth, twenty seventeen. And

(52:18):
the murder went unsolved for about six years, and the
Internet was a buzz about it because the police department
released snapchat, you know, pictures that Libby had taken of
their hike that day, and in one of these, well
it wasn't a snapchat video, but in one of these

(52:39):
videos that Libby had taken that day was a suspect
and so the Internet was really involved because the police
department basically asked for help and identifying and they called
him Bridge. And so, you know, back in the day
in twenty seventeen, of course I see it and I'm like, oh, yeah,
this is right at my alley, you know, so I

(53:00):
joined and it was called a snapchat murderer back then
before we knew anything really, And so that's the Delphi
and the case was adjudicated last year in October, and
Richard Allen was found guilty of the crime. They say
that he was the lone killer. And you know, he

(53:21):
was kind of a family guy who lived in Delphi, Indiana,
who by the way, did not move even after the
murders happened. And this is a really kind of a
small town. And he was like the local CBS manager.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
This is like a case that was so close to
your heart, right, Like this one is like deep dive Central.
And I feel like I've asked you some of these
questions behind closed doors, in between breaks and in our
personal time. But okay, so I'm going to try to
read this, Nicole. Please forgive me if i I'm just
not a great out loud reader. So a little sauce

(53:54):
behind I'm sure to be fine. I never get to
read very well. Hi True Crime tonight. I have a
comment for Talkback Tuesday. By the way, this is from Nicole.
This weekend, I watched the Hulu documentary on the Delphi
murders after Body talked about it a couple of weeks ago.
Richard Allen, he's Richard Allen's the guy that's now behind bars.

(54:15):
Has been convicted, but I believe there was too much
reasonable doubt. Just my thoughts. I would love to have yours. Also,
if you guys, if you I'm so sorry. If you
guys decide to start selling swag and merch, oh yeah,
I'm here for it and we'll buy it all I

(54:37):
really went and allegedly, allegedly allegis watch it. By the way,
who doesn't. By the way, this is a work in progress.
This is a work in progress. This is a user
generated because our listener who's making the sweatshirts. This is
all happening real time. So on, Nicole, love you guys
like the show. Thank you, Nicole.

Speaker 6 (54:54):
You know this is a hard one to answer, and
it I did get a little you know too, in
the we on this case and you know personally, right,
like it affected me personally for some reason.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
And you know, these were two beautiful, beautiful, sweet.

Speaker 6 (55:12):
And lovely children that were murdered brutally, and you know,
there was a lot of twists and turns in the case.
And you know, Libby and Abby were found in just
a really really strange manner. Libby was nude and Abby
was wearing Libby's clothes. There were just a lot of

(55:33):
weird things in this case. And I'm going to say,
you know, I do think that there was reasonable doubt.
I'm I'm the kind of person that believes in the
justice system and I put a lot of faith into justice,
and so for me to say that is painful, Like

(55:53):
I don't I don't take any joy in saying that
I think they got the wrong guy, because I just
I'm confused. Okay, So this case when the court, when
the trial happened, you know, there was it was the
gag order was in. It was insane. Even the family
was under gag. Okay, there were no cameras allowed in

(56:15):
the courtroom, there was no audio allowed in the courtroom,
so we had to rely on people that could get
into this tiny little court room in ALPHI, and they
were filled with defense lawyers, state lawyers, you know, people
who are prosecutors, not necessarily in this case, but just
kind of like they have the YouTube channel now kind
of thing, and reporters, and so depending on who you

(56:36):
listen to, it is how you kind of leaned. So
you had to not only sit through the whole day
of testimony and maybe get an update via Twitter when
they were on a lunch break, but then you have
to spend hours and hours and hours of your life
listening to all different sides.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
Right just to find out the middle, just to find
out the middle, and listen so many categories real time,
so it's hard.

Speaker 6 (57:02):
I just feel like this case really shined a light
on transparency and we need cameras local room.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
I think, can I just I'm jumping in here. I
don't have a lot a lot of things a grand
stand on, and I don't I really try to, but
the cameras in the courtroom is one that I really
do think has consideration. I remember when this was all happening,
and this was a case so close to you and
really asking you around the.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
Edges, what do you think, what do you think? What happened?
What do you think, and I saw it in your eyes.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
How confusing it is, because it's hard to place a
judgment when you're not seeing people speak for themselves, or
you're not seeing jurors speak for themselves, especially in cases
that are so high profile.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
This was the guy that was the geft down the bridge.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
You know, we all heard that on repeat on the news,
go down the bridge. That was the accused Richard Allen, allegedly.
So he's now been convicted. He has a wife too,
and a family that was like, no way, Jose, right, But.

Speaker 6 (58:00):
I will say people who are convinced he's guilty are
convinced he's guilty, and the people who are convinced he's
innocent are convinced he's innocent. And I feel like an idiot.
I'm like, I don't know what I believe anymore.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
And the family is a little divided, right, Like both
families are families.

Speaker 6 (58:16):
The families feel pretty good about the nicten. Yeah, they
feel are so with them one hundred percent, you know,
And and I lean towards looking to the family, right, like,
of course I'm going to take my guidance.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
They're like the guidance star, but yours.

Speaker 6 (58:31):
The family so I try to stay kind of quiet
about Delphi because I don't want to be disrespectful.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
That's kind of where I stand. Yeah, it's so fair.
It's hard. It's a hard one.

Speaker 4 (58:39):
Any that yeah, your DM bring yeah sorry.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
Is assigning them.

Speaker 4 (58:44):
I can't read it.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
So I was on a touchy subject. But it's important stuff.

Speaker 6 (58:50):
It is important and it's important to talk about. So
this one is from Sarah. Okay, and they don't have
where she's from, but it's from Sarah, and she says, yes,
keep telling the bees these stories. A lot of true
crime people stay away from them, but they are so
so important. Yes, nobody wants to hear about a child
being harmed, but their lives mattered, what happened to them matters,

(59:11):
and most of all, if we can identify how these
things happen to them, we can work to keep them
more safe in the future. You don't have to add
new information or have something profound to make a wave.
A wave be made by just one new person learning
about the story. Okay, So this is a conversation that
gave me chills. This is a conversation we've had internally. Right,

(59:34):
I feel like a weekly because I'm always like we
need to talk about this, and you know, it's like all.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
These kids and it's like so hard, and like.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
I'll speak for myself and I've said this, I said
this on the show. It's just what maybe this talkback
is in response to. By the way, thank you for it,
because we were opening the conversation of is it too much?

Speaker 3 (59:52):
Is it hard? It's heavy?

Speaker 2 (59:54):
You know at the end of the night or the
beginning of your day, whenever you're hearing us, is it like, ugh,
we're talking about babies and is it just I don't
know what the line is because of course we're talking
about very dark things, so it's not like one is
darker than the other.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
But there's something about kids that's so triggering. And by
the way, as we make documentaries it is again, these
are like filters that we ask ourselves and I've asked
it to us.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
We've all discussed it to nauseum. There's three stories around
children who have been murdered. Is that too much? So
we got our answer.

Speaker 6 (01:00:30):
Yeah, it's hard. It's a really hard thing. It's a
fine line to walk in. We're doing the best we can.
We're going to continue to keep answering all your amazing
talk facts and DM keep it right here at True
Crime Tonight, We're talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Okay, welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're
talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanielyidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong and Body Moving and welcome to Talk Back Tuesday. Honestly,

(01:01:03):
we are getting our talkbacks and they are so informative,
and your dms and your messages in general, you could
also you can just leave us a straight up old
school message eight eight eight three one crime twenty four
hours a day and we will get it and play
it on the show. And we've also been getting a
lot of tips and information about new cases, so keep

(01:01:23):
them coming.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
We're so grateful to have them. And yeah, let's go
to another.

Speaker 14 (01:01:28):
Hi, Stephanie, Body and Courtney. This is Ashley from Maine,
and I just wanted to say that I love your
show and listen to it every morning when I'm out
on my runs. I just listened to your show with
Jordan and it really hit me because one of the
first patients that I cared for as a new nurse
was a patient who was dealing with munchasm by proxy

(01:01:52):
with a little girl, and that has always stuck with
me as a really kind of defining experience in my nursing.
Something else that I wanted to burn up because Jordan
talked so much about how her healthcare providers knew what
was happening to her and tried to help Jordan, but

(01:02:12):
weren't able to do that despite many of them, you know,
writing letters and doing things like that. I've been in
those situations where we've had patients that we knew not
necessarily munch as and by practice, but we're being abused
in other ways by their parents, by their caregivers, and
no amount of reporting or telling you anyone that we

(01:02:36):
could was able to get them taken out of that
situation or taken away from those parents. And it's such
a difficult thing for us as healthcare providers to watch
that happen and to feel like we have this responsibility
for our patients and we're not meeting the responsibility that

(01:02:56):
we have. And we had a situation where I worked
where we actually lost a patient because of abuse at home,
and some of the nurses that I worked with stopped
working as nurses after that because they were so traumatized
and so upset by the fact that they had tried
so hard to get this baby taken from her parents

(01:03:19):
and taken out of this terrible situation and it didn't happen.
And I just that that really hit me when Jordan
was talking about dealing with that and about how they
have been able to speak with their healthcare providers as
an adult and form relationships with them, and I just

(01:03:39):
I think that's really special and I loved hearing that
from Jordan. So thank you guys.

Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
What a beautiful, beautiful and thoughtful response to Jordan who
was on Jordan Hope who shared their story the still
story very great and Munchausen and you know that's heartbreaking
to hear. H what you just scribed talk about a
ripple effect. That's right, body, that's.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
It's being on this show and sharing your story is
a ripple right.

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
But the nurses in this instance stepping back and not
even being able to do their job because the injustice
seems so great.

Speaker 6 (01:04:24):
It's really frustration, profound and profound like sense of loss
that they must feel having to step away from their
career by the way, which they've studied for and gone
to nursing school.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
And you know, I mean it's it's rough. Nurses have
a rough job, Nurses a artist job.

Speaker 6 (01:04:41):
Talk about with firefighters for me, nurses, are you know
my gosh.

Speaker 4 (01:04:47):
I have a friend who has for many, many, many
years she cares in the nick you the neonatal, I
see you. And finally, after something like fifteen years, her body,
you guys talk about the body tells the story. Her
body was just couldn't handle all of the anguish of

(01:05:08):
these babies.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
The body keeps the score, right, that's the book. I
don't know who the author is, but we should get that.
But if that's a thing, but imagine, yeah, this Munchausen's
by proxy and case that really ripped all of our
hearts out and I hadn't heard it described so clearly before.
So it's it's it's interesting that we're all sort of
kind of leaning in to the same thing. And imagine

(01:05:31):
being a healthcare provider and your job is to sell
sad things every single day. Your job is to help,
and then you see where help is needed and it
can't be met. That's harrowing. So what a great listen,
shout out to all the healthcare givers. That's the liri
here for real.

Speaker 4 (01:05:50):
What a job.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
What an investment and what a dedication and it's really inspiring.

Speaker 6 (01:05:55):
Yeah, thank you so much for that talk back. This
is true Granton. I on iHeartRadio, we're talking true crime
all the time. I'm Buddy Moving and I'm here with
Courtney and Steph and since talkback Tuesday, we're getting all
your talkbacks in. Let's go to another one right now.

Speaker 15 (01:06:07):
Hey, ladies, it's Insley from Canada. I have a question
about in cells. I listened to the podcast where you
have talked about in cells now being classified as terrorists.
But I had thought an order for a terrorist group
to be considered terrorists, they must need a source of funding.

(01:06:29):
And if that's the case, just do these in cells
also have a source of illegal funding somehow? Anyways, looking
forward to listening to you next by.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
Really good question though, thank you very much. Should be
so clever.

Speaker 4 (01:06:47):
I can speak to that. The Southern Poverty Law Center
has put out several sort of bulletins or alerts about
in cells and they have been noted by other sources
like the Southern Poverty Law Center as dangerous potentials to
watch as terrorism. So the funding is really interesting, though,

(01:07:09):
I'm going to need to look into that because go ahead, Stephanie.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Here's the question, where is the money coming from? We
know that anything on the dark web and body jump
in if you disagree. There is conversation, there's chatter, it's
group thought.

Speaker 3 (01:07:24):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
Air quotes community in many cases specifically to in Cells,
which is the podcast that's at right now. It's a community, right,
it's looking for disenfranchised young men to aggregate their thoughts.
At the end of the day, there is always an advertiser.
There is a dollar to be made on every single

(01:07:46):
thing we're consuming, all of us. If there's not a commercial,
there's an ad If there's not a bad there's a reefing,
whether it's in Cells or otherwise.

Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
I was just in a store. I said this to Courtney.
Oh my goodness, I had a storm.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
I was in a storm the other night and I
was thinking about how scared I was in the lightning.
I wake up in the morning because my phone is
next in my bed and there's all this advertisement for
things to buy to survive the lightning. It's an advertisers game,
and I think for me that's the scariest thing. It's
all it's not conversation, it's how to create a conversation

(01:08:20):
that would equal money and advertising.

Speaker 6 (01:08:25):
And I think it's important to note too, so the
United States government has not classified them as terrorists, but
organizations that track like domestic terrorism are kind of leaning
into that, right. And it's interesting remember that guy in
Canada who cited Elliott Rogers on his Facebook post that
killed those people, Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
Alex Fanasian, Yeah, when he would thank you for that.
When he.

Speaker 6 (01:08:51):
Was charged in the fatal stabbing, they levied terrorism offenses
citing his idea, his in cell ideology. So Canada is
you know, but that's Canada, it's not the United States, right,
So we're not at the point where you know, funding
is actually even a concern because the United States government
hasn't really classified them as terrorists.

Speaker 4 (01:09:14):
Just as you said, watch list, but you know, also
a secret Service report there was one I can point
to sure details growing in cell terrorism. So it is
something that is being watched.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Right And for what it's worth just to jump in
on where Courtney is saying, and cells is a really
important Listen, Courtney or I'm strong, You've done an extraordinary job.
Body as you contribute, I contribute, But Courtney at the
Helm and Connor Powell like, you've really done an incredible
unpack of a very important topic that we all like
to see slices of.

Speaker 3 (01:09:46):
In our life. But this is a deep dive.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
And once you enter the deep dive, you're like, oh
my god, I'm in this. This is a it's not
so far away, it's here, and it's actually in my
purview and and it's really shocking and staggering, and I
think it's a really important listen.

Speaker 6 (01:10:05):
And yet it doesn't hasn't done a really good job
of taking like the super complicated and nuanced topic and
making it like palatable for you know, normis let's say.

Speaker 4 (01:10:14):
Correct, right, yes, absolutely, you want to know.

Speaker 3 (01:10:21):
You got to listen. Listen.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
I listened down and I'm like, as a dummy test like,
I have a question as a dummy. I have a
question as a dummy. And I'm not saying that disparagingly,
but as a regular functional monk. By the way, I
have access to all these things, but I'm learning new
information real time as a human being in the world,
so I'm always flagging like I don't understand that I

(01:10:44):
didn't realize that can explain that further. I've never worked
in a on a podcast that required more of that.
You know, usually we start a case and we start
unpeeling it, and I'm peeling it and like looking at
it together. This is like a substite that's you know,
it's not somewhere else, it's here, it's in your hand, right.

Speaker 4 (01:11:07):
Yeah, it has been so revealing, and as you said,
it's stuff that is happening now in our communities, largely
without knowledge, and it does feel really important. And also
thank you very much for the kind word, Stephanie. But yeah,
this is a lot to take in.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
Yeah, mind blowing, right, I understand we have another topic.

Speaker 16 (01:11:30):
Hey, y'all, Gigi here, you're currently speaking about Lover soccer
Killer and body said something about there should have been
a red flag. There were no red flags for him.
He was brand new in the dating game. Again, he
was probably just so excited he was going out with
two different women. You know, there's been years he was
in a marriage, So.

Speaker 4 (01:11:51):
No red flags.

Speaker 16 (01:11:51):
But what a triangle that poor soul got caught up in.

Speaker 12 (01:11:56):
Such a good watch.

Speaker 6 (01:11:57):
Thanks, Yeah, I want to make sure you understand I
definitely blaming him like at all. I think I even
said he had just been in this relationship for a
long time and gotten out of it. How was he
supposed to know how to navigate all these crazy ladies.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
Right, these crazy chicks. That's crazy. Wait, nobody can navigate that.
It was Tah so crushed to the game red Flags.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
We should do a segment about red flags.

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
Why do you say?

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
By the way, I wish you could have a visual
and as Taha perfect as always and I are both
wearing weighted vests right now, which is like the sort
of a tradition we're starting.

Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
Hers is like a little war intense. I'm like, I'm leaning.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
In, but technically you got it for me, so like
you're we're trading places right now. And body is doing
like a face sculpting thing. I'm not doing anything that
I just started. I was brushing my hair with my comb.

Speaker 3 (01:12:55):
It's hot. I she has the best hair ever.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
But yes, I wish we were all sitting around the
same table, anyone in the sound of my voice, wearing
our little vated weighted vests and yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:13:09):
And yes mine is. I completely admit It's it's ridiculous overkill.
It's just to keep shoulders back because human inclination when
you're in conversations is to lean forward.

Speaker 10 (01:13:21):
That's what I'm doing.

Speaker 4 (01:13:22):
And then if you're old, you get tennis elbow, we
get hunched. Yeah, yeah, no hunch backs up here.

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
I need to get well. We're not going to have it.
We're like steaming up against the machine right now.

Speaker 4 (01:13:34):
And physically standing up and standing desks. There's a lot
going on. Exclamation point.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
I'm just working.

Speaker 10 (01:13:40):
I'm going I shall do it if everyone else gets one.

Speaker 4 (01:13:42):
But you're anyways perfect to another talk back.

Speaker 10 (01:13:45):
Let's do it, hey.

Speaker 13 (01:13:47):
All some Bama. So in the Unknown Numbers documentary, I
couldn't comprehend why the officers would let's daughter know, Lauren
know that her mother was doing these things in front
of her mother. I know, I feel like that should

(01:14:09):
have been information they told her.

Speaker 4 (01:14:12):
Why wasn't around her?

Speaker 3 (01:14:14):
Were dad?

Speaker 13 (01:14:15):
I just would like to know, from y'all's point interviews,
why would they do that in front of the parents,
especially the parent that's being accused of doing these things?
And is that the right way to do that?

Speaker 4 (01:14:28):
Yill me, it was so egregious. I think we all
we were all literally hands in the air when you
said that it was egregious. I don't know how anyone
if you can defend that officer's action. Give us a
call eighty to eighty three to one crime. Who's ridiculous
from top to bottom everything that he appeared. They should have.

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):
Told your dad first and let the dad talked of
the daughter. Right.

Speaker 4 (01:14:55):
We were talking.

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
About this earlier, even a minor.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
Not only was she a minor, we were watching Mom,
creepy Mom, who's actually the assailant in this case, the perpetrator,
let's be real, consoling her victim real time on camera.
I thought it was so horrifying. Honestly, it will go
down in my head as one of the saddest, scariest

(01:15:19):
things I've seen. Again, we talked, we just talked about
this earlier. It's that Gaby Potito moment. It's this moment
of sweet Laurence and the influence of mom and realizing
that she's been torturing her for months.

Speaker 4 (01:15:36):
Dad walks in and is like the whole family.

Speaker 10 (01:15:41):
Destroyed right there on camera in front of each other. Which, yeah,
I did not understand why an officer would do that,
and it didn't make sense.

Speaker 4 (01:15:49):
And also why the officer did not separate them and
something that is that incendiary if it's any type of
potential and I'm not saying anyone was hitting anyone. There's
no indication, but that could call a sane and calm
and pacifist person to throw a swing. And Dad was
the only same one who said we need to be
apart right now before something goes wrong. He was also

(01:16:10):
should never have done it.

Speaker 6 (01:16:11):
I'm so proud of him for being self aware about that.
Busy you're here like here, hats off to Dad. You know,
if we can give a compliment there, it is one
hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (01:16:20):
Keep it right here.

Speaker 6 (01:16:20):
True Crime Tonight, We're going to continue to answer all
of your amazing talkbacks true Crime Tonight. We're talking true
crime all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Liidegger here with
Courtney Armstrong.

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):
Body move in. It's Talkback Tuesday, everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
We have been hitting up some very serious talkbacks so
and some dm so. Any way you want to reach us,
we will get them and we will share it with
the audience. Let's go right to another one right now.

Speaker 17 (01:17:02):
Jared again, maybe you guys can take a look at
the Sherry Iroley murder and the Michael Frankie murder where
Frank Gable was exonerated after spending many years in prison
for the murder. Frankie's brother basically ruined his life trying
to solve the murder. Maybe you can.

Speaker 12 (01:17:24):
Take a look.

Speaker 17 (01:17:25):
Thank you love the show.

Speaker 3 (01:17:26):
Bye perfect example.

Speaker 4 (01:17:29):
I love that.

Speaker 10 (01:17:30):
I like when get suggestions like this, So do.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
You, Michael Frankie. I don't know, Michael Frankie.

Speaker 6 (01:17:35):
I do know a little bit about Sherry she I
think it happened in the eighties and she was in
Oregon and she was delivering pizza.

Speaker 4 (01:17:45):
Right, Oh that's right. This one happened on the fourth
of July, and it was delivered to a fake and stress.

Speaker 10 (01:17:53):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (01:17:55):
Details delivery.

Speaker 10 (01:17:56):
I was in a nutshell she it was. She was
an eighteen year old pizza delivery girl in Salem, Oregon.
She vanished on July fourth while delivering to a fake address.
Initially the suspect Daryl J. Wilson, he was implicated in
the murder. Wilson, who knew Sherry, later died by suicide
after meeting with the police, But now he's no longer

(01:18:20):
considered a suspect because there was a cold case breakthrough.
It looks as though later, Scott William Scott Smith confessed
to the murder, and he revealed that he had another
accomplice he abducted and murdered Sherry. So basically, in twenty
two thousand and seven, he pleaded, he pled guilty to

(01:18:42):
the murder and received the life sentence. So that's basically
like an overview of the whole case, but it has
a button to it, but it is when we can
dig into further in the future episode.

Speaker 6 (01:18:53):
I'm very interested in the brother situation because it sounds
to me like this guy got convicted and the brother
drove him self kind of nuts trying to figure out
the real killer. That's kind of the impersson I got
from the talk back. I don't know anything about the
case though, I don't that case. I don't know anything.

Speaker 3 (01:19:07):
Let's dig in.

Speaker 4 (01:19:09):
Yeah, I'd be very interested as well, and I could
see myself going down that route if my sister was
in prison. How can I sleep a night?

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
By the way, have you guys ever seen the movie?
I've said this to according too many times and body
probably you two a million times as well.

Speaker 3 (01:19:24):
Conviction with Samuel. I love the sector. I'm spacing on
it right now. White Lotus. He was just in it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
He like Sam Shepherd, Sam Sam Shepherd and Hilary Swan.

Speaker 3 (01:19:39):
And it's called conviction.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
Oh yes remember and this is oh it's so it
changed part of me thinks I work in true crime
because of this.

Speaker 3 (01:19:48):
Movie and the Shawshank Redemption.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
The two of those movies like shifted something that I
just didn't understand. Maybe I saw it and maybe that
like opened a door little bit because it wasn't in
my world. But Conviction is basically about a sister. It's
a true story.

Speaker 3 (01:20:06):
A young girl whose brother.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
Who she's crazy for, is accused of something that he
says he didn't commit, and there's a lot of evidence
to suggest he did. And he's arrested and it goes
and it goes and it goes, and the sister, despite
everybody telling her otherwise, she's like, hell no, I feel
convicted that he is innocent.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
I trust him. And she puts herself.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
Through high school, and she puts herself through her associate's degree,
and then through college.

Speaker 3 (01:20:37):
Oh guess what, Then through law school.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
She literally becomes a lawyer to defend her what seems
like a very guilty brother, and then she gets him off.

Speaker 3 (01:20:47):
He was fully convicted.

Speaker 4 (01:20:49):
Sorry, oh, Sephany talks about it all the time. Sam,
what do you got though? You're chomping at the mic?

Speaker 3 (01:20:54):
Jump in there, Stephanie. Do you mean Sam Rockwell? Oh yeah,
Sam Rockwell, Sam Shepherd, Yes, fair so fair. By the way,
Sam is my only he He loves me because he
corrects me when I say the Joker and I said,
like the gig alert like I always say wrong. Yeah,
yeah I did say that. Never said that. You did say,

(01:21:17):
like in.

Speaker 4 (01:21:18):
My head, what's that Joker movie?

Speaker 3 (01:21:20):
I'm like, joke, it's called the Joker. Yeah yeah, yeah
yeah Sam, No, he gets me, but yes, you're right,
Sam Shepherd, Sam Rockwell, Rockwell, listen, I.

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
See the world in a very specific lens, so welcome
to my party.

Speaker 6 (01:21:39):
In my listen, I'm going to be the Joker for
Halloween and I'm just going to have like a flavor
flame style like necklace on that says the Giggler.

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):
That's good. That has sent me over the edge. Yeah,
it was like, oh, that's not exactly what you meant
to say, but I hear where you were going with.
I love that correct So thank you Sam.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
But yes, Sam Rockwell, who doesn't love Sam Rockwell, you've
seen White Notice just now, that incredible monologue that he
said anyway a movie worth watching because it was to
speak to the testament of the complicated relationship between a
sibling or a family member.

Speaker 6 (01:22:16):
And not only that, but like wrong wrongful convictions like
that is kind of a theme the houses, like breaking
news this week, right, Like how many wrongful convictions did
they have in that case where they were false asortions? Yeah,
so you know, this is kind of like a running thing.
Maybe we should cover some wrongful conviction or not wrong

(01:22:38):
but false confessions.

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
Yeah, false confessions out wrongful convictions. It's a it's a
tough it's a tough ride, and I honestly think that
we all I'm gonna speak for myself, the idea of
wrongful conviction is so incredibly scary to anyone. And by
the way, sometimes who has the best lawyer? Right, so

(01:23:01):
we most find yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:23:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
By the way, imagine you are just without money and
being accused of something and they have to go to
work on Tuesday. It's a Monday, and your family has
to now get involved and take off work.

Speaker 3 (01:23:16):
Everybody's now broke and can't afford a lawyer. And now
you're all the things. Let me tell you still in.

Speaker 6 (01:23:22):
The words with Ai, I'm terrified of it, like somebody
can create, like maybe some CCTV of me breaking into
a bank.

Speaker 3 (01:23:31):
I don't know, oh ring camera footage.

Speaker 11 (01:23:33):
My god.

Speaker 3 (01:23:34):
I didn't even say this, but I fell.

Speaker 6 (01:23:36):
I listen. I fell for my first Dai video. Okay,
I normally don't fall for those. But there was TikTok
there was a video film I feel Okay, there was
a video of bunnies bouncing on a trampoline and I
was like, oh.

Speaker 3 (01:23:49):
That's so cute, and I just kept strolling.

Speaker 6 (01:23:51):
Well, I learned the next day that it was Ai,
and I was like, oh my god, am I going
to start sending my money to the print of Nigeria?

Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
Am I? Like?

Speaker 6 (01:23:59):
Is this is my life now? Am I the woman
who thinks that you know, things are real when they're not?
And then I started thinking like, oh, oh my god,
I'm gonna get set up for a crime that was
like where I went immediately.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
How interesting you say that because it's a soft launch.
Right first, it's bunny, it is jumping on into it
bel and we're like, yeah, it's so cute. Now we
just I just read this in the news today. I'm
sure you guys did as well. About an actress, yes,
who's generated by AI. By the way, could she be
more beautiful? She's perfect, of course. And there's an actress who's.

Speaker 3 (01:24:29):
Literally not real. She's AI.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
Tilly Wood is her name, would and now she's up
for castings to be you know, and likely who needs
an action star? Why as a you know, you think
the Tom Cruise is and the people that are in
the Tom Cruise esque movies, the Jason Bourns, the Matt
Damons who are like yeah yeah, or the Charlie's their
own who I worship and they like throw themselves off

(01:24:53):
the highest building on you know, they put their lives
in jeopardy with great insurance attached to it to like
make this movie feel real. And now there's an AI
actress who just jump is like, I would like to
be hired. You don't have to stress about any of
that stuff. There's no insurance. I'll memorize my lines like
that in an instant.

Speaker 3 (01:25:14):
I'm perfect, a beautiful yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
My makeup is perfect, And I wonder can that actress
really give emotion? Like I have to assume that there
is a very key difference between AI and like like
the real thing right, Like there's there's no double of
body moving in courtney or I'm strong, like good luck
finding it to a ganger of those two. One of

(01:25:38):
me is how you included? Tell how you included? I'm
a diamond.

Speaker 3 (01:25:42):
Doesn't know, but like that's a real thing. It's happening,
real now, It's happening right now.

Speaker 10 (01:25:48):
I'm telling you guys, the guy who did the Taylor
swift like yes, change, Oh my god, that yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:54):
Body told us about it. I went and checked it out.
I was like, in my dude, like this I would
have never ever caught.

Speaker 6 (01:26:00):
I went back and I watched this bunny video because
I literally was questioning my sanity. I was like literally
like I'm gonna fall for you know, the Prince of
Nigeria scam and I'm gonna say fortune swindlard.

Speaker 3 (01:26:12):
I'm gonna be tender swindlard for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:26:14):
Look is that me?

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
Is that me?

Speaker 4 (01:26:15):
Now?

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
Am I? Am I? That woman? Am I that age?

Speaker 4 (01:26:18):
Am I?

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
That?

Speaker 5 (01:26:20):
Do?

Speaker 4 (01:26:20):
I need to contact my nieces and be like watch
my finances?

Speaker 3 (01:26:23):
Like what is happening?

Speaker 4 (01:26:26):
I was? I was totally duped.

Speaker 18 (01:26:28):
I saw us by my first AI video is like
some penguin with an airline ticket, like that was being.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
You know, I just scrolled by it on Twitter.

Speaker 4 (01:26:37):
I was like, man, that's crazy. This penguin's trying to
get on a plane.

Speaker 3 (01:26:40):
And penguin was like trying to like go across to
another place. I was like, that's terrible.

Speaker 4 (01:26:46):
Why won't pay penguin AI?

Speaker 3 (01:26:50):
Yeah, it was totally AI.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
And my mom says, like I get videos all the
time and leave it from DMS, but like I feel
I would not have fallen for that. Noengwin, Adam and
I were convinced.

Speaker 3 (01:27:01):
That peng was going. Penguin holding an airline ticket? Is
this is different? Love forever?

Speaker 2 (01:27:08):
Those little penguins, can't they go in a little honeymoons.

Speaker 3 (01:27:11):
They make for life. They hold their little fins.

Speaker 4 (01:27:15):
But body, you say that a penguin would never hold
an airline ticket. I understand what you were talking about
is AI, But many many many years ago, one of
my favorite things I've ever seen in my life is
this penguin and he would get his owners would put
a little backpack on him, and he would walk himself
in the neighborhood to the fish store. They would take

(01:27:36):
the money that was in the backpack, put the fish
to bring home, give him a snack. He'd go home,
Mom and dad give him a little bath. This guy
was running errands. This guy is real.

Speaker 3 (01:27:46):
I mean yes, I'd be like, like what happens?

Speaker 4 (01:27:49):
That's why mom and.

Speaker 3 (01:27:50):
Dad gave me sure that that's where.

Speaker 4 (01:27:55):
I feel like that.

Speaker 3 (01:27:57):
I don't know that he was running errands. It was
crazy that I was getting to the airport down, getting
fish at the.

Speaker 6 (01:28:03):
Door, shopping and doing one second, you're telling me this
penguin it's just running around the streets in New York.

Speaker 3 (01:28:11):
He was doing a.

Speaker 4 (01:28:11):
Wellness check somewhere in Japan. I'm gonna find this video.
I am finding this video.

Speaker 10 (01:28:18):
I want to see it, Okay, I mean it's possible,
you know, I guess anything is possible.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
I need to out my mom. But she's obsessed with
like a monkey called BB. And BB is a monkey
then and like it got shut down right, Bobe's no
more like BB. There were like no more BB in
an outphit like I don't know. She just got such
a joy out of seeing BB, like get dressed and
like have a banana and bib. It was in home, right,

(01:28:44):
so Bieber's a little monkey. I'm sorry, she's in Dubai.
I think, yeah, yeah, and she's so cute you could
lose your mind. So you don't like people having and
I think that the thing. So I think they got
taken away. But is the penguin allowed to run?

Speaker 4 (01:29:01):
I'm looking at two thousand and eight adorable pet peng
when in Japan goes shopping for fish, and why.

Speaker 3 (01:29:06):
Can't monkeys do?

Speaker 17 (01:29:08):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:29:08):
Why can't monkeys also running? It's terrible. I'm not allowed
for either of them.

Speaker 4 (01:29:14):
Yea, I need one of those.

Speaker 6 (01:29:15):
Let me be real, though, I need a little personal
assistant monkey with a little backpack.

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
With a little backpack, not with your name on it.
We learned that last no an anonymous backpack.

Speaker 3 (01:29:26):
Wow. Okay, we went off on a tangent. Sorry, And
I just know I'm.

Speaker 6 (01:29:34):
Just saying, like AI is becoming so advanced, Like I
feel I have a young mind. Okay, I feel that
I feel like I can tell the difference between a
I like, I feel like very Internet savvy. You know
I have a degree and all this. You know I'm
educated in this. They fell for the thing, rabbits.

Speaker 3 (01:29:53):
I'm literally writing a check to Nigeria right now.

Speaker 10 (01:29:56):
No, well, I'm more afraid that, like what if it's
like a political figure or something. They start to use
a person like evacuate now and it's a face of
like someone that I don't know that runs a city.

Speaker 3 (01:30:09):
They like take over televisions.

Speaker 18 (01:30:11):
I get freaked out because it's like whatever wherever the
technology is with AI now is probably like years ahead
of what's available to the public too, So it's like
who knows who know? It's what they picked up and
we would never know.

Speaker 6 (01:30:24):
Okay, let me just sell you. Courtney just texted me
the video of the penguin. I just want you to know.
I'm going to show you.

Speaker 3 (01:30:31):
I'm going to show you how of this text change.

Speaker 4 (01:30:35):
Watch.

Speaker 3 (01:30:37):
I never know how to use my phone.

Speaker 2 (01:30:39):
By the way, that is the cutest penguin running a
quick at his back.

Speaker 4 (01:30:44):
Yeah, he just walks from home, not a busy string
to the fish market.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
Wait, how I see on dry land? I thought penguin
is so cute.

Speaker 10 (01:30:54):
A little slow though, if I'm hoping I'm not hurt.

Speaker 4 (01:31:00):
Logo, Adam and Sam, if you could have any animal
run errands for you?

Speaker 3 (01:31:05):
Is that a person in an outphae?

Speaker 4 (01:31:07):
Oh boy, I mean the penguin doesn't sound bad. I
empathize with penguin.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
They love each other for life, by the way, penguins
for life, and they mate. They fall in love first
time and then they hold little the hold hands ever.

Speaker 3 (01:31:22):
Lobsters, I think you too. My new favorite eagles too.

Speaker 4 (01:31:28):
I don't know how.

Speaker 18 (01:31:28):
Well they'd be at running errands, but I like the
the fat little badgers.

Speaker 4 (01:31:33):
I think are really cute with them. Yes, it's real cute.

Speaker 3 (01:31:37):
I have a little hedgehog in trouble. I have a
little hedgehogs in my backyard.

Speaker 2 (01:31:40):
He's like a little like he's like a little like
chunky bum and he comes out in the hedgehogs whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:31:45):
That is all right?

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
Well, we went off the rails, we really did. We
sure did good. Okay, so any animal, Sam, you have
to have my back on this one.

Speaker 3 (01:31:58):
Think Sam has it's hard, but we all went south
from there. I'm sorry, everybody. Fair, It's totally fair. So noted.

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
Tomorrow we'll be back on the rails. I promise, thank
you for the great night. And listen, there's so much
to unpack with Diddy their upcoming hearing. And listen that
David case continues true Crime tonight. Have a great one
back