Diddy Trial Nears Close as Government Rests, Defense Plans to Call No Witnesses — Where Are the Celebrities? O’Shae Sibley Remembered

28-year-old professional dancer and choreographer O’Shae Sibley was stabbed and killed while voguing to Beyoncé's music in New York City on July 29, 2023. Philadanco!, his former dance company, has launched a memorial fund in his name. A call-in sparks celebrity questions in the trial against Sean "Diddy" Combs. Tune in for all the details.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. Man, we are
talking true crime all the time. It's Monday, June twenty third,
and it might seem as though the world has gone crazy,
and maybe it has. But in the meantime, can we
all settle in and huddle up together because we have
some thinking to do, some solving, some unpacking, and it's
a stacked night of headline. So let's put our worries

(00:41):
behind and let's focus on Diddy, on Sean Dittycomb's and
his trial because guess what, his defense says they are
not going to bring any more witnesses and the prosecution
may rest and has and we could have a verdict
by the end of the week. So don't even get
us started, because there's so much to unpack there. One
number two also some fallout from the Karen retrial, one

(01:03):
of the jurors facing a lot of backlash, and also
prosecutor Hank Brennan. He wants to share his thoughts and
has come out publicly to do so. And then also
it's Pride Month and we are really going to do
a Pride story every single night because again, this is
an underinvestigated community. There's so many cold cases that have
not been looked into, and every day this week we're
going to do our parts. So more on that to come.

(01:25):
I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head of KAT Studios, where
we make true crime podcasts and documentaries and I get
to do that every day with Courtney Armstrong and Body
move In. The three of us are here to sort
of take your calls, hear your woes, share your stories,
eight eight, eight to three to one crime. We have
so many things to unpack tonight, so please hit us
up on our socials at True Crime Tonight's show on

(01:47):
Instagram and TikTok, and at True Crime Tonight on Facebook. So,
Courtney Diddy your favorite topic? Oh wait, it's mine, right,
that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
Well, listen Stephanie in this moment. As much as he's
in the news, apparently he is everybody's. It's the beginning
of week seven in the trial against Sean Diddy Combs,
and today for the full day, there was a summary
witness a summary witness is a person who doesn't bring
forth any new information, but gathers and summarizes in a
clean way to present to the jurors. So summary witness

(02:20):
Joseph Cerciello, who he is a special agent for Homeland
Security investigations, and he spoke today. We're going to get
into that. Also, we're going to get into Friday, the
jury heard from another of Diddy's former assistants, Brendan Paul,
and the government does plan to rest their case tomorrow
is where at Sansia's moment, meaning closing arguments could begin

(02:43):
as soon as Thursday. The case is happening because the
state alleges that for twenty years Colmbs operated a criminal
enterprise kidnapping, arson, bribery, sex trafficking, and using his clout
and monumental money to really learn black blackmail people. He

(03:04):
is facing life in prison and has pled not guilty
to all charges.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
So can you imagine to not taking no defense witness,
not taking the stand, which is not uncommon? Right, We've
done a bit of research and listen, that is not unusual.
You know, why take the stand and be a wild
card in the eleventh hour at your own defense and
remember did he is not on the hook to prove
himself innocent. He is innocent until proven guilty. So it's

(03:31):
really on the prosecution side. Have they proven racketeering? That's
the big one, right, has that been proven? I'm curious
what you guys think. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
I mean, listen, I think I think it's been proven,
but I'm not in the courtroom with them seeing the evidence.
And none of us have seen the evidence, right, We're
just getting told by people who are inside the courtroom.
So true, So I don't know if they've proven racketeering. Again,
they need a couple predicates for Rico, and I think
that they've met those. But does the jury buy it?

(04:01):
That's the most important question. Does the jury by it?
And there's so many questions with this juror. Right, So
we had one journey just dismissed couple right, right, Yeah,
So one was dismissed, right, So it was that jury
number three. They were dismissed because jurisicx infamously. Plus there
was the other that had vertigo that that seemed to
work itself out, and then there was that other witness,

(04:23):
a jur that kind of was up for conversation because
they had been they had received a text that basically
asked if they were Juror number six, which they weren't,
but that of itself kind of implied that they maybe
had been talking at home or talking to others, or
that that our identity wasn't you know, secret?

Speaker 3 (04:42):
So this is interesting that you guys bring that up.
Last Monday, it was revealed that there was another issue,
as your guys just laid out with three of them,
but in this particular case, it was suspected that this
jur might have had some kind of conversations with a colleague.
I was very curious to find out what the out
of this was. Of course, court was canceled Friday because

(05:03):
of the vertigo you mentioned, but the court said that
the juror might have acted improperly, but that his fate
would be taken up after testimony, which was very interesting
to me. So right now there's been nothing published either
way about the judge's decision, but my question is, like,
do how would the jurors fate be dealt with after testimony?

(05:26):
Couldn't that nullify the jury pool?

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Well, this is somebody who's looking at life behind bars.
So and al did he may never walk on the
streets again. And yeah, if there's an issue with one
of the jurors or potentially was and that wasn't addressed,
I would imagine that's perfectly good for appeal. So I
can't imagine that they would leave that loose thread out there, right.

(05:50):
I thought it would have been decided one way or another. So, actually,
if there's any lawyers.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
Listening eighty to a three to one crime, please and
fill us in, because it's a it's a question hanging
over our heads.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Now that you mention it. What about jer What about
the victim number three? Wasn't her name Gina? That she
suddenly was not going to testify. She sort of disappeared
in the eleventh hour and never came forward. We had
the harrowing, you know, testimony of Ditty's ex girlfriend, Cassie Ventura.
She's the one that really laid out for us this

(06:20):
idea of freak offs. And you know, we've all gotten
maybe a little desensitized to what that means, but you'll
remember lots involved with those freak offs. And according to
Cassie Ventur and then later Jane, the second victim, also
an ex both of them were doing freak offs and
hotel nights multiple times a week. So Stephanie, can you

(06:40):
explain what a freak us is? Yes, thank you for
my mom, because it is a very confusing thing.

Speaker 4 (06:47):
So a freak off is a sexual like a little
play of sorts that Diddy would put together and he
would have one of his you know girlfriends. Let's just
use Cassie Ventur for an example, and she would get
the benefit of going to a fancy hotel for the
night and or maybe two nights or sometimes even three nights,

(07:07):
and then they would have male escorts come and they
would perform sex. They would have sex with her, and
Diddy would just sit in the corner and pleasure himself
while observing his girlfriend with other men. Apparently the hotels
were so trashed for days they were put out of order,

(07:28):
the furniture and the floors were drenched with bodily fluids
and oil. If trigger alert, how gross I have to recover?

Speaker 2 (07:37):
How gross? So again, these were like big events, but
the trick was Diddy was recording them and using them
later as revenge and basically saying, if you leave, I will.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Show It's kind of like that, right, yes, exactly, and
listen I want to get back to today for a
hot second, because Stephanie, those freak offs that you laid
out so well for your mom, that's odd.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'm'll sorrycuss that later, but be cover your years.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
So today's witness, Joseph Sarcielo, it had a lot to
do with really consolidating all of the testimony about the
freak offs. And what this testimony showed was that Diddy
indeed was directing staff to arrange the travel, to arrange
the escorts, to arrange the supplies including the baby oil
and drugs you spoke of, for the events. So this

(08:29):
is coordination and money and travel, which is part of
the larger rico that it was organized.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
And it was these were people that were on staff
working for air Quotes, Combs enterprises. And let's just talk
about the freak offs for a moment, because this was
in testimony by two of his former assistants. Remember they
went to a fancy hotel, for example, and it was
standard that as soon as they left the hotel room
would be put out of order for scrubbing and cleaning

(08:57):
and all the horrible things that you could imagine. They
would pay one thousand dollars to make sure that that
room was just out of order, and then oftentimes staffers
would have to tip off the cleaning crew so that
they would be discreet, so that Diddy would have his
you know, incredible image never tarnished, God forbid. Can you imagine?
So I wonder, first off, our hotel's suffering. By the way,

(09:19):
the idea that this happens in fancy hotels does in
fact change my opinion about a Jigi's suite anywhere. But
think about that, this was they were being paid to
cover something up. We know that also with Cassie Ventura,
did He's x that infamous footage that we saw on
CNN that released it, that horrible footage where he's beating

(09:41):
her up at the elevator.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
Like she's going to the elevator and he like grabs
her and like throws her down on the ground and
he's like kicking her.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Up his towel. By the way, he did it with
one hand, so casually beating her up. You can only
imagine what happens really behind closed doors. But you know,
security was paid on what was it, one hundred thousand
und k to make that go away, to make that
tape disappear, So isn't that at its core racketeering right there?
I definitely bribery. I mean, if your staff is cleaning up,

(10:12):
if you're chief of staff. You know Christina Korum, we've
heard about they call her. She Where is Christina Koran?
By the way, we say the word KK because that's
her nickname. We do not mean Kim kardaction this fai.
But you know, this person has been cited and a
lot of these lawsuits and has been brought up in
a lot of the testimony as somebody who's very right
hand to Diddy. That's a big person to be paying

(10:36):
the bill for score. This is a person to be
leaving out of this direct of this testimony. And you
would think even if if she could defend him, they
would present this. We always thought that was the thing
that she was. I thought that's what we go for
the defense, right Do you know what?

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Though?

Speaker 3 (10:51):
Because I had looked into a little bit just generally,
not even case specific of why someone would put on
no defense, taking out someone taking the stand for themselves
when they're on trial. But reasons include, as you said earlier, Stephanie,
if you don't think that the prosecution has proved their case,
you don't have to say anything. It's not your right.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
So that could be one reason they to it. So
he's being confident.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Another, you know, another reason could be that you would
incriminate yourself. Makes sense. But also with KK, who as
his right hand as Diddy's right hand man, would have
we assume known all the inner workings. Another reason to
not put on any defense is that even someone that
you could put up in your defense, that could open
up cross examination to pull out more things about your defendant.

(11:39):
So maybe that's what it is. Because we've all been
wondering where's KK. Why isn't she testifying? And maybe that's
why she's not for the defense. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
And by the way, where is everybody? Why are they
only putting the assistance on trial? Like where are all
the big dogs? I know, we'll talk about this list
later of you know, VIP celebrities that we're supposed to
be in this trial. I don't know where is everybody?
Because we're really focusing a lot on the assistance and
the assistant to the assistant the lowest on the totem pole.

(12:08):
We want the top of the food chain.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
Well, stay with us, we're going to be talking more
Diddy and the prosecution could rest tomorrow. Will the defense
will they pull a fast one? Will the colony witnesses?
Then later in the show, It's Pride month stick right
here true grins mighty Back to Ditty Courtney, Where should

(12:34):
we go?

Speaker 3 (12:35):
I mean, so much is happening currently. So in the
Diddy trial, Brendan Paul gave his testimony on Friday. He
was a former assistant to Didty. He worked for him
for about two years, and Diddy is on trial for
sex trafficking and racketeering, which is alleged to have gone

(12:56):
on for twenty years. He is facing life in prison
and is pleading not guilty to all charges. So Brendan
Paul's testimony is interesting. First of all, did he fired
Paul multiple times? One time kind of my favorite, for
forgetting to bring Ditty's Lululemon fanny pack on a.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Walk, which that was in that fanny pack?

Speaker 3 (13:20):
Well what was in the fanny pack? I mean, given
the testimony we've heard, it's not his drugs cash, it's
not his key some block, No, yes, no it's not.
But he also testified that he picked up drugs for
Combs a handful of times. His estimate was more than
five and less than ten. And he was transporting his

(13:42):
drugs for personal use. So he's saying he wasn't selling them,
but he was moving them. And I don't know if
he's moving them across state lines, what does that mean
for larger charges. So Brendan Paul, this former assistant, he
was arrested March of last year at the Miami Airport
and he was charged with felony possession of cocaine and

(14:03):
marijuana Le's candy. So, yeah, this all happened while the
federal raids were happening on Combs's properties. Do you guys
remember that I did?

Speaker 2 (14:12):
It was such a big deal. I was watching it live.
But this guy really took a hit. So he was
flying private, So he was at a private area in Miami.
You know, just small distinction because you know, you fly private.
He's getting out of dodge, maybe he has some stuff
with him from Didty. He did get like tagged as
Diddy's drug mule. That's been said everywhere, you know, and

(14:35):
it sounds like he was actually carrying not that we're
condoning this, but a personal use amount of drugs that
he was holding for Didty not an amount that was
meant for sale, although it was like covered as though
this guy was like, you know, running kilos of coke
over the border and was a drug dealer essentially or
a drug mule. You know. He was a really acclaimed

(14:57):
basketball player and university and kind of you know, by
all accounts, was like a nice kid, happy probably to
work for Diddy and excited to be in the in
the eye of all this fame. We say, yeah, fly private, Yeah,
suddenly you're in these mansions. Again. We're not condoning any
of this, but you know, put yourself for a second
in a young.

Speaker 4 (15:17):
Especially young, and like, yeah, I can see that I
would probably do it if I was that age.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
I really no, you don't ask him question when you're
at the bottom of the you know, barrel. When I
was like, you know, an intern, or you don't ask
a million Thankfully I worked at a very safe, wonderful place,
but like, you don't ask a million questions. In fact,
your job is to get it to you. Don't ask
questions and don't be a nightmare. So imagine that rule
applies and you're dealing with somebody who you have no idea.

(15:43):
Behind closed doors is a maniac doing monstrous, abusive things.
But maybe on the outside looking in you don't see that.

Speaker 5 (15:52):
Well.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
I mean, I'll push back a little bit because Brendan
Paul did testify he was fired multiple times over year
and a half, and I usually believe that what was.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
He fired for? What other things was he fired?

Speaker 3 (16:05):
The one, the one, the one example I have top
of head is the Lululemon fanny back that wasn't brought
along for a stroll. But listen, so masculine Diddy. We
have heard from many others or several others of Ditty's assistance,
and it was chaotic, it was explosive, it was unpredictable,
it was was abusive, It was you know, prediculous, walking

(16:31):
around on eggshells and taking.

Speaker 4 (16:34):
Like being held in a warehouse like for days, hooked
up to a light detector test, like you know, held
over the balcony by your ankles, like, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
And by the way, when you're in a circle something
that you you all start to get a little By
the way, I was just saying this, we're all, we're
all collectively and we shouldn't be, but we are, or
at least I am. Freak offs were so scary to
me when I first heard about what is it? What
goes on now? We're like, oh, yeah, the freak offs.
Oh you mean the hotel nights, as if it's real
common knowledge, right, We're all like whatever, imagine you're in

(17:07):
the behive of all things, you know, and Comb's enterprises,
and this is the ongoing behavior by everybody, security assistance,
the maids, the chief of Style, according night.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
It's kind of normalized, normalized, you know, area right exactly.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
Talked about that, thank you, and thank god we're talking
about it now. And I think that's an important piece
of this puzzle that I just want to encourage all
of us to keep discussing, because if we didn't hear
about this, we wouldn't know about this. Sure, there have
been rumors all kinds of things, but you know, we
try to ignore rumors. How do you prevent this type
of thing from happening if we don't really take a

(17:45):
time out to discuss it. And it's pretty common knowledge.
I guess a lot of people said these white parties
had shenanigans happening at them, but again, what level of shenanigans?
This is downright violent.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
It's absolutely ran it ran the Gamut and just watching
several of the documentaries, and there have been many really
interesting ones put out with unparalleled access, each having its
own anyway, but the levels of party that I learned
through these documentaries at the White Party would be, Oh,
if someone is a girl who has caught Ditty's eye,

(18:18):
then someone who works for him goes over and it's
it's not just come in, it's come in, but you
need to put these special slippers on because these slippers
are going to be the key to get you into
this portion of the house.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
And then it's fits the golden ticket for Willy Wonka.
But they don't realize it, so they're given the slippers.
By the way, they're like, oh, yeah, here have a cocktail. Meanwhile,
it's drugged, so now you're getting roofied and is that
that really very serious? Which there's many, not all of them,
but there's been much talk about, you know, people getting
drugged and being forced to use drugs or you're sort

(18:53):
of like this seems fun and you know, here take
this and suddenly you're not. Have you guys seen the
movie Blink twice? Don't get me started if you haven't.
Since you haven't seen it, this is not a fun game.
But if if you haven't seen it, I encourage it.
That's the movie that Zoe Kravitz directed, and it sort
of speaks to a little of this culture of like

(19:15):
something seems fun and oh yeah, take this, have a cocktail,
and next thing you know, things change and you can't
come back from it. And oh, hey, by the way,
here's a video just in case you want to tell anybody.

Speaker 4 (19:28):
Blackmail and that's collateral, like that's what cults do, exactly
like the Exeum cult.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
And by the way, we're going to show this video
to your mom, and then your mom's going to lose
your job. And then also you're not going to have
any job, but you're not going to have a career either,
so or just play along terrifying.

Speaker 4 (19:49):
If you want to weigh in, give us a call
at eight eight eight thirty one Crime or send us
a talkback message on the iHeartRadio app. And speaking of calls,
we have a call Jen Hi, Jen Hi, Hi.

Speaker 5 (20:00):
How's it going good?

Speaker 2 (20:02):
How are you good?

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Good?

Speaker 2 (20:04):
What did you think?

Speaker 5 (20:07):
Yeah? My biggest question with this entire scandals last trial
is if Diddy sexually abused Justin Bieber and or Usher.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Oh, goodness, my goodness, what a great question. Where has
this been? I'm so glad you brought this up. We've
been afraid to say it because we don't want to
we did any anything disparaging on the great Justin Bieber
and Usher. However, there have been long, long rumored that
they were either working for the FEDS or that perhaps allegedly, allegedly,

(20:40):
allegedly Justin Bieber was working for the FEDS, because perhaps
he was a very young boy in the system or
in the world, and he might have been fourteen years
old hanging out with Diddy and Usher. Remember, Usher had
custody essentially of Bieber. You know, Bieber was raised by
a single mom, and he was so widely talented. He

(21:01):
was discovered by Scooter Braun and I believe Usher, and
then he was to Los Angeles exactly, you know, under
the best of intentions. But in order to live with
a movie star or a rock star like Usher, you
have to sign over your parental rights, which I believe
his mother did again under the best of intentions, you know,
not realizing that Usher is perhaps allegedly, allegedly allegedly in

(21:23):
the Diddy world. We've all seen that video of Diddy
and you know, giving Justin Bieber a car and saying
you were going to party like Kings all weekend and
like the like man. Meanwhile, he's like a young teenage boy.
You can see his little faces, like, yeah, that sounds great, petrified.
You know this, this is a whole other underworld that
we're just learning about. I, as an adult woman, would

(21:45):
have lasted eighteen seconds. I would be the first to
be dead in any of these scenarios. So there's nothing
disparaging about we're saying about Diddy or I mean, we're
not saying anything disparaging about Justin Bieber or Usher, but
it's possible that they were victims.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
Well, and you know, poor Justin has been acting kind
of since I started right like, and I'm not I'm
not judging him because.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
It's the we have nothing but empathy, nothing.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yes, And I just want to rearticulate that is a
big if and.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
We have zeroactly. In fact, he said out loud, actually
he made a statement not that long ago basically saying
that he has nothing but you know, positive experiences with
Puffy in his experience, but that he has no doubt
that this was very negative for the victims. You know,
he's not suggesting that they're lying by any means, but

(22:35):
he did clarify through his PR person that not him. Listen,
it is possible that.

Speaker 5 (22:41):
In the Yummy music video.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
I haven't Oh my gosh.

Speaker 5 (22:46):
Y Yes, it's a very interesting message that he's bringing
across in that music video about the music industry in
and of itself.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Allow to see it. You are so right. I never
even occurred to me just now waits So you, Jen,
you have to tell us about the Yummy video. For
those who don't know, it's a Justin Bieber song. It
has a famous video to it. If I was a
singer of any caliber, I would do a little medley
to make you recognize this song. But that will not
help Jen. You're up. But anyway, there was a video,

(23:20):
and the assertion is that it kind of speaks to
I think the pedophilia even Oh well, thank you, Jen
for the call. Stay with Us.

Speaker 4 (23:29):
Prosecutor Hank Brennan has released his thought on Karen Read's
verdict and aur Adjur is facing shocking allegations and don't
forget to call us at eight eight eight thirty one
Crime stay right here on True Crime.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
Tonight, We're talking about the Diddy verdict to come because
that could happen this week allegedly, which I feel like
is impossible. My brain kind of can't handle it. Prosecution

(24:00):
is all done in terms of bringing witnesses, and apparently
the defense is saying that they're not going to bring
any new witnesses. I wonder if that plays like mind
games on the jury a little bit. It's playing it
on me, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:15):
Like, are is the jury going to go back to
deliberations and be like they didn't provide any defense testimony?
Are they that confident? And does that play into their verdict?
I wonder I would want to talk to a juror.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Like, let's unpack this. And by the way, if you
have any feelings on this, call us eight eight eight
three to one crime, please We're desperate for you to
weigh in because this is a complicated one and just
don't talk about it. Does it make it right? I'm
confused by that. I think that's a real show of
confidence and it has played a couple of mind tricks
on me today even as we were going through all
of the jurors that had brought us up to date.

(24:51):
You know, that's the question, are we fatigued. Have they
proven it? Maybe they haven't. Maybe he's very confident. Maybe
he knows he's going to get he's getting off at
the end of the week.

Speaker 4 (24:58):
Or maybe to know how much going to Maybe he
knows Cross is going to bury him.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Or Cross is going to bury him. And like we
talked about earlier, why are all of the assistants in
Low Hanging Fruit, people that are not so in the
system being brought to testify? Why are they taking the heat?
Why are they being forced to get immunity? Where are
the big ticket items? Where's his chief of staff? Where's
d Rock, the main security person? Where are the people

(25:25):
being held accountable for making that video of Cassie Ventura
being you know, beaten up making that disappear? Instead of
all the.

Speaker 4 (25:32):
Celebrities, where are all the celebrities? So where are all
the celebrities you eat? That's what I would like to know.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
I have one happyr people. I would assume that I'm
sure very hard to keep them out of this convo,
but this list exists, so we would be remiss not
to discuss it.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
Right. Okay, this isn't necessarily this is one that just
stood out to me so much This isn't even about
people who should allegedly have testified, but celebrities who have
come up. So Jane, she testified that her and Ditty
when they were in threesomes would have special names. So
Jane was Bryant, Diddy was Jordan, as in Michael Jordan,

(26:12):
and the male escorts were known as Shaq.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
That's weird. I just put that.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
And as a reminder, Jane is Ditty's basically girlfriend at
the time, yep. And she was a single mom, and
she testified under an anonymous name right.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Correct, correct, and days on the stand that to day
telling harrowy Dale and listen, I can we stop on
Jane for one second because we haven't talked much about her.
We have one just for one minute, because I listen,
we get we get all these comments and we're we're
listening to all the chatter and reading all about it.
And it's two part. You know, I thought, you know,
Jane's deestimony was really painful to your point, she's a

(26:49):
single mother. He like you know, seems to prey on
women that maybe don't have the best financial means, that
are maybe you know, able to be brought into this
like reign of terror pretty easily. Maybe they're just like
enabbered by his fame. Regardless, she's been through a lot
and the other side of that has been and we've

(27:11):
heard even you know, Bill Maher say this publicly. Well,
you know, look at those texts where she says how
much she enjoys him, or she says she's she's into it,
or look at these texts after the fact. She couldn't
have been that much distressed because look at these texts
that would suggest otherwise. And I really do get that.
That's a you know, I get that from an outsider

(27:32):
looking in. I'm just saying that's a trauma bond man.
Sometimes people say things, text things just because a they
want to self preserve, they want to keep the monster
at bay. But also sometimes there's real feelings kind of
stuck in this. You know, she entered the situation in
love with him. He starts asking her to do stuff,

(27:52):
she starts doing it, she starts to feel degraded. That continues,
That continues. Now we add some drugs to the equation.
Now add some cash to the equation. Next thing, you know,
you're kind of in over your head again. I'm not
making excuses, but it can be really complicated, and I
kind of want to disagree a little bit about Bill. Please.

Speaker 4 (28:11):
I think it's real easy for Bill Maher, who is
as white powerful man right to with his own affluence.
He's not like a single mother, right.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Trying to make a single man.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
It's really easy for him to sit up on the
pedestal and judge.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
And it brought him a lot of attention, right, He
got a lot of clicks out of it. So his
point was, listen, ladies as like a public service to leave,
lad leave, Yeah, just leave. You know, you're in a
tough spot. You know, we saw what happened when you know, Yeah,
great question. Why why don't they just leave? I don't know.
Did you not see the tape of Casey Cassie Ventura

(28:48):
at the elevator actually trying to leave. What happens then?
What happened to Ditty's X. I'm not saying that he
took her life, but she did die mysteriously in her sleep,
and that's up for a lot of chatter and conversation allegedly. Allegedly,
it is not a safe circle to bust out of
when you have security on lock, when you have all
the people that you come in contact with that pay

(29:10):
your bills, that do all of the hustles and coordinating,
all working for the same person. There's no place to hide,
even behind bars. There's no place to hide. That's harrowing.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
And there's a long term I mean a longstanding psychological
condition that's been known used to be known as Battern
Women's syndrome when I was growing up. Now it's called
intimate partner violence. But listen, that happens and can develop
when you're experiencing abuse and you're not safe and you're
not happy, but you're terrified to leave for all the

(29:42):
reasons you guys listed out. So it is a prison
within its own bill maher.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Right, let's get into some of these celebrities, ladies. Yeah,
go ahead, hit us up with some celebrisy. I mean,
you have the list in front of you. Go ahead,
go with one of the names. Toss it out.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
Okay, So Jennifer Lopez and I know she's the biggest one,
but it doesn't make it doesn't make any sense since
she was involved A. She was involved with Ditty for
a long time, but B was involved with him on
the very night of that messy situation with Shine that
happened at Shine was another rapper, and when they were

(30:18):
at a nightclub there was an altercation involving a gun
and Stephanie, I think you might be able to speak
more eloquently to the details.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
But there because I love j Loo and this hurts
me to say, so, Jlo, cover your ears because I'm
really I think she's so beautiful. And you all remember
that green Versace dress that she wore iconically.

Speaker 4 (30:39):
Do you know why that's Google images was created because
of that dress?

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah? Well Google image was created of that. And you
know why that dress exists. It was on Ditty's watch.
Ditty would really control her look, right, So those are
the iconic like Jlo days when she really had this
big moment on the scene, you know. And she had
been dating Diddy for while, which is why it's a
great question. She could offer some context either for Ditty

(31:05):
or against him. Right, But what is she accused of, Well,
she's accused of Well, she was with him for a
long time, so she has insight. Secondarily, she was at
this nightclub I believe it was in nineteen ninety nine. Diddy,
j Lo, his girlfriend at the time, and a guy
named Shine who was an up and coming rapper who
had had some hits under Ditty's label. They were all there,

(31:27):
you know, partying at this nightclub and shots fired, shots fired,
and although no one died, the victim I think was
like shot in the face, really riot, shot in the face,
and like you know, lives to tell the tale, thankfully,
but barely. And then Diddy and j Lo allegedly allegedly allegedly,
we should make that a drinking game. They they dip,

(31:48):
they run out of the nightclub and they're off in
a way. And when later discussed, uh, there was no
talk of a gun, and apparent allegedly j Lo knew
of the gun and lied to a judge. Again, this
is the chatter we have. No we are not suggesting this,
so be kind to our Jlo. But this gentleman Shine,

(32:09):
who was at the nightclub, maybe the last man standing
when everybody else skadaddled. He ended up taking the fall.
He did many years behind bars. He has since found
God forgives all involved. But the chatter is that this
was a real crime, that did he paid to have
this go away, and that he offered, which we've heard

(32:29):
in testimony. The driver of the car that night that
had Jlo and Diddy in the backseat offered him cash
to take the fall or to take the gun. And
I think Jlo always said there wasn't a gun, but
maybe she had to lie about it because maybe she
was being you know, she was probably scared by him too.
You know, Jlo may be a victim also, And again,

(32:50):
like who wants to be associated with us? It's such
yuck that I could imagine if I'm a superstar, you know,
like Jennifer Lopez. Some say that the reason that she
split with ben Afflack is because they had to get
their finances sorted out real quick, and that was alleged, alleged,
alleged that there was video and a da da da.
Who knows, none of that has really come to be

(33:11):
So Number one, is that just a real smear on
your great name, even just being associated with Diddy. So
maybe everyone's really distancing themselves and paying people people to
like keep away from the fray. Of course, especially if
you've built your whole career, your whole career by busting
it and working so hard. Nobody can take hard work
away from our our j Low. But on the flip,

(33:33):
if she has some insight to offer interesting. I don't know,
you know, we have we don't know. No one's seen her.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
Wow, Well there's a bunch of celebrities. There's Jagger and
Leonardo DiCaprio. What's the deal.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
What's the deal with those two? Well, Leonardo DiCaprio used
to be at white parties. Okay, so he's just a
guest at it.

Speaker 4 (33:50):
I mean, you're not on the list if you're just
a pure like either their buds.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
You know, those parties were huge. Everybody got invites, you know,
like we all everybody I would have on it, just
like the timings didn't work out. But like those were
packed houses, you know, whether you're in the Hamptons or
Miami or in New York City. Like, those were big parties,
but there were so many people. I think these freak
offs and more intimate nights were kind of later in
the evening when the regular people the normis dipped or

(34:18):
the ones that weren't wearing the perfect slippers that were
being assigned to them, or they were being targeted, and
you know, young women would come in maybe allegedly told oh, yeah,
you're extra special, put these slippers on. Now you're invited
to the next fun VIPP party and like that isn't say, well,
there was like a lot of urine talk. I can't

(34:40):
I don't want to everybody out. No, that's true, but
that's sort of what seems. It kind of got real
weird after after a party, I think each but like
if you don't know what you're getting into, that could
be horrified, that would be surprising.

Speaker 4 (34:54):
I was scary, scary, scary. Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, their mention.
I mean, there's a whole list of celebrities that are
be mentioned, but they're not being accused of anything. They're
just being mentioned, right, like for her or you know,
but there's like the six degree of separation. But there's
like this shroud of like they must have done something
wrong to have been enlisted anyway.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
I know we all agree on so little and the
world seems so intense, but we can't all agree that
Ditty has not done the right thing by women period.
You cannot beat women up that way. You cannot use
videotapes against them. I mean, not just women. Anybody can't
do this, which is why again, it's so important that

(35:35):
we're talking about it, and I can't get this list
out of my head. Who's the other celebrity? And then
I promise we'll put Ditty to rest. Is Stephanie's favorite.
Somebody has to like shoot hit me over there.

Speaker 4 (35:45):
She was like depressed before we started, and I've never
seen her so alive, like I'm looking she is a
live ang day.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
It was a hard day today, but somehow unpacking Ditty's
disasters makes it a little bit better because again, he
might get away with it, he might get off, but
he won't really get off because we're going to talk
about it. And if nothing else, we can all say
he's been really horrendous to women and abusing them. Whether
that's racketeering, we shall see. That's for the jurors to decide.

(36:17):
But again, the violence against women, no can do. And
I think that's been kind of an eye opener in
this case, not kind of very much an eye open.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
It's been very prevalent. And you asked about one of
the celebrities. So Usher's name has come up several times.
We spoke about earlier in the show, his connection with
Justin Bieber and Diddy, but also when Dawn Richards was
on the stand and.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
She from Dannity Kane.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Yeah, so she testified that Diddy threatened her after she
saw him, after she saw Diddy beat Cassie. That was
her testimony that he threatened her.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Well.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
Also during that testimony, what she said was that Usher
was at the dinner party where did he allegedly punched
Cassie in the stomach, which I don't know how big
this dinner would be. That would indicate he's a potential witness,
and that was why he came up, or maybe he was.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Like a list of people, But did he underneath? Did
he was Usher? We're talking age wise, like I believe
Usher was under Ditty's label and was a young boy
when his career began, and he was sort of in
the diddy land. And again, nobody knew what the diddy
land was, right, so maybe those were different times. And

(37:35):
then Usher then brought Bieber to the table. Maybe they
have all nothing to do with it, but I'm sure
they have a little bit of insight. I'm sure they
have a little bit of insight. I know Michael B.
Jordan's name keeps coming up. Thing and this is a
brutal one too, by the way, and nothing scary about it,
just like there's nothing bad about justin Bieber. Nothing bad

(37:56):
about Usher. Michael B. Jordan was Cassie Ventura's ex boyfriend,
so it might just see somebody that he was jealous
of that didn't jealous of leave him for Diddy. She
did know they were on a break. They were together
for a short amount of time, and then I believe
they got back together.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Not so dissimilar to the kid cutting for anybody for
any reason.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Go back to the boyfriend that's accusing you know you
of scary things and is threatening to throw revenge porn
out into the world to prevent you from having any happiness.
That's the problem. And there were so many drugs involved. Again,
this seems like oh, party, party, party, MDMA, ecstasy. This
seems like very scary nights on ecstasy. I've never known
anybody who's just not happy on ecstasy, but like this

(38:40):
is like scary stuff. So that changes everybody's I guess
people's boundaries.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
It changes like your whole perception exactly how you live
your whole life exact. And you have this looming threat
of you know, you're you're gonna be humiliated in front
of you your sweet mother.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Oh my god, you're so earnest.

Speaker 4 (38:59):
You could tell me anything and to protect my mom,
and I would do it, you know what I mean,
like I would have done anything to protect my image
to my mother.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
So I can kind of see that. Oh listen, we're
gonna come right back, I promise, not with more Diddy.
We're going to talk about to Karen Reid trial, my
hand on the Bible, Bible, So please stay with us
true crime all the time. This is true crime tonight.

(39:32):
It's a week ahead, I might add, because listen, allegedly
Diddy is going to rest the case and we're going
to have a verdict potentially by the end of the week.
So there's so much to unpack this week, so we
didy watch. Let's take bets. Let's take bets.

Speaker 4 (39:47):
I'm going to say, by Friday morning, what's that? Quickly
thought and I called. I called Karen read perfectly said
it was going to be Wednesday.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
You did, you did? I'm going to say for morning,
having psychic predictions.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
I say it hangs over into next week. And I
also think they're going to ask several times for you
know how you can jurors can ask for specific testimony
or definitions of things. And I think, particularly with the
Rico wach. I know I've talked about that's going to
be a hangover, so it's going to be into next week.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
What do you think? Stuff? My goodness, I am so
confused just hearing these choices. First of all, I thought
this trial was going to go on for two more
months because the defense was going to have a million witnesses,
so or wanly I shouldn't really get a vote because
I'm already kind of at a deathicies. No, we all
thought that. I mean, I'm shocked that they're going to
be like and that's a wrap if I'm diddy. Let's

(40:42):
just put ourselves in his position for a hot minute.
As he sits in prison or jail tonight in Brooklyn
with Sam Bankman the fraud brought up on charges for
you know, a white collar crime, if you will, those
two were sitting together. Is he saying I'm going to
be home by Friday or be home by the weekend,

(41:03):
or is he just looking for life behind bars? I
don't know. I think I would have a little more
fight in me if he wasn't super confident. Right, If
you're him and you're looking at a lifetime in the
conditions that he's been in, which is no walk in
the park by allway.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
I think it says a lot though, to the jury
that they're not putting on. I think it speaks to them.
I really do it. It's a subtle message like, listen,
the government doesn't have a case, and we really don't
have anything to.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Say because it's so ludicrous. I think that's it.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
I think it's you know, his confidence and we can
I don't know certainly what's in his brain, but his counsel,
of which there are ten attorneys being paid last I checked.

Speaker 4 (41:42):
And none of them are going to speak for him
like it's crazy.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
Because it you know, it potentially could be too dangerous
or it's a strategy either not like I'm going to
tell it day off and you know, go golfing or something.
It's I can't imagine the amount of thought that went
into this with all of those ten legal minds. Oh
one thing, I don't know why this stuck out to me.
You know how Diddy's hair has gone gray. He's fifty,
however old he is, so I just thought, oh, he

(42:07):
didn't have hair color in prison. But it turns out,
and this makes perfect sense, that it was it was
someone who who helps you present well in front of jurors,
and they said, no, you're going to look like an older,
more seasoned man, so let that hair go gray. Aw
that's a tangent. But I was something that I had
read as an article. It's not a just interesting So

(42:29):
thought has been given to everything, and I'm sure that
includes should we put up a different.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Everything's very calculated, right, right, So like it's going back
to that because I had also read that he had
been dressing in sort of like old man clothes also
for optics, like he was wearing like, you know, a
little an old man sweater with like an old man.
He wasn't given like bad boy for life vibes, you know,
he was giving very church boy old I just have.

Speaker 4 (42:57):
To point something out one of our guys the studio,
Adam said, like Harvey Weinstein coming to courtneer wheelchair. Same
with Joseph DiAngelo, the Golden State Killer. Right, and then
he's doing push ups in his jail cell. Like here's
the cool thing though, say with mom, no true crime,
and like he's like he's learning.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Good point, Adam is learning this is this is so true?
Good question? Because that is accurate. It's all a show
it's like a play. That's why being a trial attorney
is such a big deal, because you're really putting on
a bit of a performance in Layman's terms, so that
the jury is not like tone deaf or they're not
snoozing behind the wheel. Is it possible, just throwing this

(43:36):
out there, this the prosecution I think put on a
really great job. Not that I have much to compare
this to because a lot of this stuff is new.
Even in this case, I had never heard of a
lot of these things before. Is it possible that there
were maybe too many details and we've gotten sort of
exhausted from it, Like do you end with Cassie Ventura,
because maybe potentially she had the most full prong testimony

(43:59):
in terms of violence. We had seen the tape on CNN,
so people already have a feeling about it. You know,
she presents so beautifully, Jane. I'm not saying did not.
I just don't. Physically I didn't see her. And then also,
you know, she talked a bit about sort of the
collaboration of the ditty staff to you know, book things

(44:19):
and take care of things, and how she and her
mother were being basically you know, escorted with this you know,
extorted with this tape and mom cass event, Toura's mom
had to send twenty thousand dollars to a loan out
on her house so that she could pay off Diddy
otherwise he was threatening to release the tape. Doesn't that

(44:41):
alone prove racketeering. Maybe some of the other testimony has
sort of muddied that a bit, But it's such a
good question. I have to assume he must feel pretty confident.
Or does he think he's just going to get a
pardon or is it like you just kind of throw
it up to the gods. I can't imagine that's the case.
Mistakes are very high here.

Speaker 4 (45:01):
I feel like they're throwing it up to the gods
by not providing any kind of defense. But again, I
think it is a kind of like a subliminal message
basically to the jury, like we're so confident because the
prosecutions this is ludicrous.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
We don't even have anything to say to it. And
why not get the Ashton Kutcher's or the you know,
justin bieber Is all of the people that maybe did
know him in a different way, or maybe they did
have a difference.

Speaker 4 (45:25):
Well, I would listen, they probably don't want to put
their own neck on the line.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
True.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
I mean if they go to the defense like Ashton
Kutcher came to the defense of that one guy, Danny,
and they got eviscerated in the public eviscerated. So I
cannot imagine that anybody of any social status would want
to come to Ditty's defense because they're like, I, I'm
not touching that with the ten foot pole.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
I don't care if he's my friend or not. Even
jay Z and Beyonce, who were his besties, absolute no dice.
I wonder if they know anything. I mean, these are
his best buds. I I can't imagine. I mean what
I I don't want everybody coming for me. I'm afraid
to say any of these names out loud at this point.
But again, this was a very big I would never
say anything. I mean, have you seen Blue Ivy on

(46:12):
that stage. She's trented. I can't even imagine, Like, I
just want to be in the beehive literally, But again,
these were people that spend a lot of time together.
How do you not stand up for your friend or
is it just complete professional suicide to do that.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
We're now going to switch gears and we're going to
talk about Karen Reid.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
Finally, Yes, go ahead, Where do we begin? Where do
you begin?

Speaker 4 (46:39):
So it's been what five six days?

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Five days?

Speaker 4 (46:42):
Yes, five yeah, five very long days on the internet,
at least since the not the jury found Karen Read
not guilty of killing her Boston police officer boyfriend.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
She was found guilty of d y.

Speaker 4 (46:56):
Special prosecutor Hank Brennan issued a statement, first official statement.
He said that the evidence in the Karen Reid case
led to only one person. He also said, they, you know,
conducted an independent, brand new investigation into everything, and they
concluded it was Karen Reid, and so he felt fully

(47:16):
confident prosecuting her with the evidence they had. However, I mean,
he completely ignored this FBI report right like, there was
this big FBI report that basically said, you know, Karen
Reid likely is not guilty of this. He was not
hit by a car. John O'Keeffe, the victim rest in peace,
Rest in peace like eternal peace that you know. So

(47:39):
you know, Hank Brennan has possession of this FBI report,
who is now prosecuting this case, and in light of that,
can still wanted to prosecute it. And said that she
and still stands on that that she is the one
that killed him. So he's basically saying, we're not going
to be looking at anybody else because she's she's the perpetrator.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
Well, he's ends alone, at least in terms of anyone
else who is a medical expert to say that victim
John o'keyes the police officer, was hit by Karen Reid's cars,
she backed up.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
I mean, you guys read the statement.

Speaker 4 (48:13):
Is that the impression you got from the statement that
he was basically saying they're not going to be looking
at anybody else, that he did this independent investigation and
outside of the trial one basically start over and decided that, yeah,
they're right.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
They have the right person. And that's the impression I
got from his statement, which is interesting. And if you
haven't been playing along too and you haven't been keeping
up with the verdict, it's gotten so much backlash and excitement.
You know, people that were very pro Karen Reid have
done some exciting things and also in some scary things.
I mean, I think his family, John O'Keefe's family, his

(48:50):
beloved mother and brother and dad, like they're they're they're
having weirdos showing up in front of their house and dancing, dance,
all sorts of Please let them rest, give them peace.
It's been so brutal for John O'Keefe's family, so first
and foremost, can we please let them have some time

(49:11):
to themselves and heal and grieve right like this has
been brutal. I can only imagine for Peggy O'Keefe to
have to sit there for two full trials talking about
the loss of your son. Brutal. And we know she
feels not very excited by Karen Reid, certainly not her
being free. I'm curious if you guys have an opinion

(49:31):
about the interviews that many of the people who were
at the house that night have done since the verdict.
Like an investigator and Trooper Proctor. He was the original
man who was fired from his job because of misconduct
in the first trial. He did not take the stand
in the second. Brian Higgins, he was the guy that

(49:53):
was squaring off. Yeah, allegedly he's nowhere to be found
right now. He was on this valance camera, the one
that was kind of squaring off with John O'Keefe at
the bar after a very long day of drinking. They
could have been just sort of like clowning around, or
they could be be thing if you will, They had
been boozing for a long time. It could have been serious.

(50:16):
It could have been because of Karen Reid because there
was a bit of a love triangle there, or it
just could have been over you know, sports. It could
have been just nothing after a long while. It could
have been like just men from men. Yeah, this horse
and arrests exactly. But he also was the one that
went at one thirty in the morning to the police
station that particular night to do some you know, clerical work. Random.

(50:42):
He's also the one that was allegedly, you know, in
the sally Port like there's just he's been the phone.
He destroyed his phone.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
He destroyed his phone on a military base, and he
separately took out these simcard to destroy it, including every contact,
photo and everything else, which no one on earth interesting.
And also that he shouldn't he should have gotten permission.
I hope these facts are correct, but I know there

(51:11):
was permissions that he was supposed to have gotten in
order to do anything with his phone.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
You're atf agent the end. Now apparently he's missing. Now
the other side to that is what if he had
like sexy pictures or texts on his phone and that's
why he was destroying it and it was completely unrelated
to the case. He just didn't want those maybe photos
getting out. I'm just being devil's advocate here and maybe
all of this attention and all of this backlash is

(51:39):
like run him out of town.

Speaker 4 (51:40):
So one of the jurors came out, you guys, dur
number eleven.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
I don't really want to say your name, but she
don't say it.

Speaker 5 (51:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:48):
Yeah, she's been giving her name or whatever. But you know,
I what in light of what's been happening to her,
I'm just not comfortable with it, and I hope that's okay.
So her here's here's what's going on. Her Twitter bio
says that she is a true crime fan and a
lawyer from Brazil. Okay, So that's red flag number one
for people because they're like, how could you be a
true crime fan and not know anything about Karen Reid

(52:10):
and accept this jury position. So that's number one. And
number two she follows like prominent free care and read people.
So there's two camps. There's free Karen Reid who believe
Karen Reid is innocent and being framed, and then there's
the anti Karen Reid who believes she's one hundred percent
guilty and basically got off Scott free and murdered somebody,
like murdered somebody. So and these sides hate each other,

(52:33):
like the there's no civil discourse.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Right, yeah, it's very yeah, okay.

Speaker 4 (52:41):
So anyway, so she follows some free care and read people,
so that's another red flag for people. They're like, oh
my god, I can't believe you're following turtle Boy, Like,
how could you be following turtle board and be on
the jury? Well, dummy, she followed them after getting released
from the jury. It's not like she's following them before.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Anyway.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
She was a lawyer in Brazil because she's from Brazil
and who now lives in Boston and used to work
at Target. People are like, how could you be a
lawyer and work at Target? That's another thing. And in
an interview with the Jess Machado Show, and I think
I read this a couple of days ago, yeah, she said.
Jess asked her what witnesses do you trust the most

(53:23):
or did you trust the most? And she responded and
she said, forensic scientists from the Massachusetts Police State Lab,
like Maureen Hartlett and test Chart. Well that's a problem.
And why it's a problem because test Chart did not
testify in trial to she only just a trial, So

(53:44):
that is big.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
How would she? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (53:48):
Right, So people are freaking out. Free Karen Reid, basically,
that's what they call the movement to Free Current. Free
Karen Reid infiltrated the jury. There's been jury because of this,
She turned everybody. Everything needs to be investigated, The verdict
needs to be overturned. This is corruption at its finest.

(54:09):
You know, a cop murderer is getting off. Well, that's
not what happened in any way. So Jess made a
Twitter post and she was like, listen, I actually cleared
this up. What if you put the juror. When she
was answering the question, she couldn't remember. You don't get
to take your notebooks home, Okay when you're on jury, dudo,

(54:32):
you take notes? Yeah, you can't take your They become
a property of the core. Yeah, so that they can
review notes and whatnot.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Jury notes.

Speaker 4 (54:39):
Well, she couldn't remember the lady's name, so she googled
forensic expert soft voice, Karen read because that's all she
could remember. And the person's picture that pop that popped
up was test Chart. And if you put those pictures
side by side between test Chart and Christina Hanley, who's
who she meant, they look exactly like, oh interesting, they

(55:02):
look exactly like. So last night, Duror A number eleven
went on Turtleboy's show and was telling, you know, like,
you know, I just didn't the evidence wasn't there. She
was explaining why they voted not guilty. They really believed
the defense expert witnesses over the prosecution witnesses. Fair, that's fair, right,

(55:23):
She was explaining all this, and she also explained that
she's kind of having fun with these people because they're
so crazy about the verdict and so upset that she's
just kind of trolling back right right, Well, she's now
getting like threats on her children's lives, like I hope,
I hope your kids don't turn up dead then we

(55:44):
can laugh at you. Like it's really really getting out
of control, and you know, we can't be doing this
kind of thing to jurors, Like we just can't. The
idea of our system is so it's such on a
pedestal right, we have to have faith in our in
our system in order for it to work. And when
we start harassing jury members, I think we've lost the plot.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
We have and we've lost our way. And that's such
an interesting point. I mean, never before has it become
either more dangerous to be your juror and a high
profile case as we're seeing in the Ditty case, and
as well as big business and many people just not
say any jurors because you get to get a book
deal or I'll do all this press right after. And
maybe that should be part of the process. You shouldn't

(56:30):
be able to do that. Maybe this is something that
you should not do or put your face out there.
But I guess in many ways it already was. In
Turtle Boy, in case you don't know who that is,
Turtle Boy is a blogger and a blogger and an
Instagram you know sensation, also a journalist, and he's kind
of the person who was credited for really pounding the

(56:52):
pavement on this case back in the day and frankly
cracking it open. So he has a huge support group
that follows him and they all are crazy for him.
And you'll remember outside the courtroom so many were showing
up in pink to support Karen Reid and chanting for her,
which also could influence the jury. If you hear them
chanting outside, they're supposed to be in a vacuum, not

(57:15):
taking into consideration public outcry, and you know, enough is enough?
Is that too much? Scary? It is?

Speaker 4 (57:22):
And I mean I would think that they would influence
the jury, But the jury is not supposed to worry
about the consequences of their verdict.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
So unless the kids lives.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
Well, that didn't happen n till just now. You know,
that's very recent. I mean, while they're in the courtroom,
nothing was happening to her at all. You know, all
she knew was that people were out there in pink
cheering for Karen Reid. But when you're on a jury,
you're instructed by the judge do not worry about the
consequences of your verdict. You cannot consider the consequences of
your verdict. And I think I.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Think they did that. I think they did their job
and we have to respect that. Nothing.

Speaker 4 (57:59):
Listen, the prosecution is not going to get a mulligan.
You can't redo this. There's no redoing this trial. There's
a double Jeopardy in play. She's not going to be retried.
It's never going to happen. We need to move on
the anti Karen read. People need to move on, and
I've said it. I'll probably get some slack, but you've
got to let it go.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
To advice per topic, What do you think, Courtney about
some of the people that were in the house that night,
or some of the friends of victim John O'Keeffe that
have taken the stand and then since then have done
interviews on either twenty twenty or Dateline, like there's been
a lot of there's been a lot of interviews.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
There has been a lot of interviews. As an understatement,
I can't wait to dig into all of them. But
in the meantime, so hold that thought one second. Put
on your happy pants, because we're going to pause Karen
for a hot moment to go to Cameron, who is
on the line with a question about Diddy. Cameron, what
is your question?

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Hi?

Speaker 6 (59:00):
There, I've been thinking about the defensive decision not to
put anyone on the stand. This is a pretty high
profile case. Doesn't that risk making did he look guilty
in the court of public opinion? Even if it is
a smart legal move. What do you think that says
about what the defense doesn't want the jury or the
public to hear.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
I great question, Cameron, you're I think you're spot on.
I think it is optically a bad look.

Speaker 4 (59:26):
Right, because he's not getting any play in the press
with what his defense is, right Like, I'm not going
to be able to log in to TMZ tomorrow or
something and read about what his defense is, and as
a member of the public, I think that's optically going
to look bad.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
What do you think, Steph. I think it's actually a
sign of complete strength I think is what they're going for.
I mean, look, this is it's kind of shocking to me, Cameron.
I can't believe that he would not want to really
leave on a high note and make sure that everybody
knew his side of the story and that this was
all just super super you know, consensual. I should say

(01:00:05):
that's his Really his defense so far is that. Look,
I'm not a great guy. Sure you know I've been
a little abusive. I apologized for it. Okay, fine, he
caught me at a bad moment. Sometimes I beat up
my girlfriends and okay fine, sometimes I'm horrible to my staff, okay, fine,
but does that mean it's racketeering? We're so confused ourselves.

(01:00:28):
I'm not sure, Cameron. Do you think that they're going
to walk? Oh?

Speaker 6 (01:00:31):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Okay, so go away forever.

Speaker 6 (01:00:37):
I can't see how that doesn't happen.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Yeah, I'm kind of with you, Cameron. But if I
think I'm going to go to prison for life, don't
you think I would be fighting a little bit hard.
I would be fighting for him. I would be screaming
I didn't do anything. But you, guys, I think this.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
You know it is a legal strategy. I it is
to it's and I'm going to in this moment trust
that it is the best because think about it. Every
single person they put up for the defense, they will
be cross examined. And it appears from everything that the
prosecution has put up so far that in every aspect

(01:01:13):
personal professional service level, did he has had violent I
mean violent encounters or people have more stylists?

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
And it looks bad because I'm if that's your defense
for not putting up a defense, that's that's terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
No, I think of the defense charges. He's not looking
at domestic violence charges. He's looking at racketeering charges, right,
which is craziness in can you don't know where the
many celebrities are as well? I'm so curious.

Speaker 6 (01:01:44):
Oh yeah, I wonder if that isn't Also part of
the don't put him on stand rationale too is who
are they afraid to be dragging into the conversation and
what sort of levers did they have? But that might
be going too far down there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
You're singing myself, Stephanie with you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
She's so on the road.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
I could not agree with you more right now? Yeah,
you me and a pack of smokes and we're gonna
free thank you, Cameron.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
All right, listen, we're going to continue with whatever this
is in this moment. We're also be talking more Karen Reid,
and then we have a really important case to highlight
in the LGBTQ community that needs attention. Keep it here
true crime tonight. We're talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
So back to Karen Reid. We're just going to do
a little bit more because we just can't get enough.
But also it's Pride week, so we want to make
sure that Pride month, I should say, but we're covering
different cases all week, so we definitely want to make
sure we leave proper time to unpack that correctly. But
before we do that, back to Karen Reid. If you're
just joining us, welcome. Karen Reid recently has been found

(01:03:02):
not guilty of two of the three charges that she
was facing in her retrial. This was a very big verdict.
Has everybody very divided, and you know, we have a
talkback right now that we can go to Hi.

Speaker 7 (01:03:15):
It's Sentia from Canada calling in regards to the Karen
Reid guilty verdict on the DUI. I'm just wondering why
none of the other individuals that were at that house
party were charged with DUIs given that they knew that
the individuals had been drinking and they drove to Fairview
Road after leaving the bar. And my second question is
did any of the other officers get brought up on

(01:03:37):
disciplinary charges with the police services that they were assigned?

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
Thanks, what a great great she's in her heads right now.
Great question, because that's a fair one. If Karen Reid,
who was accused of running over her then boyfriend victim
John O'Keefe, she had been drinking, it seems like they
all had been drinking by everybody's version of the story.
That's been a boozy bad day turned into a boozy

(01:04:02):
bad night and then a deadly one if she was
found not guilty of hitting him and not guilty of
hitting him and leaving the scene. She was found not
guilty on that as well. Why are the rest of
them not being brought up on drinking charges while you
know driving. That's a fair question. I don't know. It
is a fair It's a very fair question.

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
And I think some of the other police officers were
brought up on some disciplinary charges didn't But it was
like stupid stuff right now, well, vacation days or something.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
Okay, So yes, Proctor got fired and it was it
was vacation days, but there were certain people who were
it's punishment and it's taking away. I mean, that's taking
you can call it money out of someone's pocket. One
of the sergeants he had to forfeit five days of
vacation and that was because he failed to quote supervise
and or council a subordinate who sent an inappropriate message

(01:04:58):
regarding an ongoing investigation. And hmm, wondering if that could
be regarding Michael Proctor, who sent we do know to
his bosses going through Karen Reid's phone right now looking
for nudes and his superiors thumbed it up.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
I think that goes to like a level of gravitiness,
that that that he's used to saying to his bosses
like that they're okay with you know, I would never
say something like that to my boss because I know
that they would not accept that. They would they would
discipline me for that. So he is comfortable sending that
to his boss. What other cases do they do this on?

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
Well, yes, it's great. And that was the same for
Lieutenant Brian Tully. He was another of Michael Proctor's supervisors.
He lost six days of his time and it was
for the same thing, failing, you know, to supervise or
to admonish people about inappropriate text messages, which is putting
it mildly. But one more is Kevin Albert and that

(01:06:01):
Albert House lost three days of pay. I'd play a
guessing game, but we're short on time. It's because he
was found drinking on the job.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
I didn't weigh that previously or current because of this case.

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
This was I don't where was this?

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
I have the boozy bunch. This bunch was boozy, you know,
and look there's no judgment on that. It's you know,
I'm judging it, and it can't be boozy behind the
wheel and boozy while being the leader investigator also not great.
How about being the investigator in a case where you
really know the victim in fact, it's a beloved, dear

(01:06:37):
friend and on top and by the way, also a
fellow man in blue. And then additionally you know the accused.
How do you possibly get to text terrible things? Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
Absolutely? And a little bit more clarity and what I
brought up. So, Kevin Albert is the brother of Brian
Albert where this entire thing took place, and he was
under investigation after Proctor's testimony revealed that those two spent
a night out drinking. I guess I actually it says

(01:07:11):
in connection to this case. So yeah, I guess they
were both.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Is that the nephew because I thought the nephew Colin or.

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
No, that's Colin. He's younger.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
So is he the one with the bruises on his knuckles?
That everybody?

Speaker 3 (01:07:24):
Kevin Albert wasn't at his brother's house. But Kevin Albert
is a friend of Michael Proctor. Oh okay, So Michael
Proctor is an actual friend of this brother. He is
not a friend of Brian Albert according to what he
has said the homeowner. But anyway, so that's all. People
got a couple of you know, a couple of vacation days.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
Is that technology? I mean it's I get it money
out of the pocket. Yeah, really it seems small comparatively speaking.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
Oh and ps, there was you know, was why wasn't
anyone else charged? I love this is my favorite talk back,
not that I like to play favorites, but yeah, no,
there were no other d UIs given out because nobody
was investigated, much less looked at, not even talk to
or asked to come out of the house where a
police officer lay dead at the end of their driveway.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
So what you guys thought of their interviews? Oh? Shoot,
I mean that's I think we might have to do
that tomorrow. We might have to know that. I can
wait that long.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
It's fine, Okay, I got two words or it's a
Latin hyphen it it's a mea culpa for Michael Proctor.
So we'll leave it there and tomorrow hitting the ground running.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Yeah, we might have to. We might have to dig
into it tomorrow. So I'm gonna. I'm going to get
into this pride case. It's pride months.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
I am a member of the Alphabet mafia, as they say,
never heard that saying having either. Oh so this is
actually really sad. This is a really sad case. Twenty
eight year old professional dancer and he's this guy's a
professional dancer and choreographer. His name is O'shay Sibley and

(01:09:06):
he was stabbed and killed while voguing to Beyonce in
New York City on July twenty ninth of twenty and
twenty three. So they him and some friends had gone
out and you know, they were they were getting into
a car, and he was just out waiting to get
into the cars. You know, his friends are all piling
in and he's just you know, having fun voguing, and

(01:09:28):
a group of men approached him and started demanding that
he stopped dancing and using like derogatory names and slurs,
you know, homophobic slurs and anti black slurs.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
He was a black man.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
And as then confrontation escalated, one of them fatally stabbed
him Siby in the rib cage. A seventeen year old,
a seventeen year old high school student. What Yeah, it's
really it's really sad. And you know, I don't know
if you guys know anything about like voguing, but it's
really it's really kind of important in especially with gay men.

(01:10:01):
It's kind of you know the ballroom, yeah, you know
exactly and whatnot.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
You haven't seen that. It's incredible, right, and like, yeah,
it's incredible.

Speaker 4 (01:10:11):
Yeah, and it's this guy's a professional dancer, and he's like,
it's an important to the culture.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
I mean, let's let's be real.

Speaker 4 (01:10:18):
This is like, uh, black men and then you know
black women too, studs and whatnot. In the lesbian side
of things, you know, it's it's important to their culture.
It's it's it's significant to them. And so this was
kind of like a double hate crime, right. So he's
a seventeen year old high school student. He has been
charged with second degree murder as a hate crime and

(01:10:41):
criminal possession of a weapon obviously second degree because it
probably wasn't premeditated in any fashion. He just confronted him,
you know, kind of out of the blue. It's just
really really sad. He you know, this guy, they have
like parades now to honor him, and you know his
you know, people in his community are voguing in these
raids and it's a site to behold, and it's a

(01:11:01):
really really nice way to honor him, you know, his
After his deaths, hundreds of people gathered in his hometown
of Philadelphia. He's from Philadelphia to Philadelphia Freedo, I love
that song. City for his funeral, and his former dance company,
fill In Dance Co I think is the name of it,
launched a memorial fund in his name, So if you're interested,

(01:11:22):
please search that and maybe donate to his fund. Costs
across the country, ballroom communities, celebrities, and mourners paid tribute
through voguing, public memorials and heartfelt messages. Beyonce even like
because he was voging to Beyonce, Beyonce updated her website
to say rest in power. Oh Shay Siby, can you

(01:11:44):
imagine Beyonce extraordinary?

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
I think that changes anything? No, it doesn't, of course.

Speaker 3 (01:11:50):
I mean speaking of things that need to change. LGBTQ people,
they are five times more likely than non GBTQ people
to be victims of violent crimes. Let that sink in
five times wow. And in fact, black members of the
gay community have the highest rates of victimization overall, and

(01:12:14):
that's followed by Hispanic and white. But it's all too much,
it's all too many, it's all too senseless.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
And that's what we have to all be talking about it. Right,
So again, if there are cases like this that have
been either underreported about or underinvestigated, because sometimes it's just
not making the main headline, please like send us these
cases in these stories, because we definitely want to dig in,
we want to give a platform and highlight these cases.
And it's unimaginable. Five times that's a staggering quote.

Speaker 4 (01:12:47):
Right, And a lot of times too of these these
things aren't reported, and that's like another that's like another
way to victim my somebody. Yeah, because maybe somebody isn't out,
you know, and they're scared to report it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
And that's really really sad.

Speaker 4 (01:13:02):
But on top of it too, and it's I think
something that a lot of people don't consider, Like if
you're not out and you've been you know, attacked for
being you know somewhere, you know you're hidden, right, You're
not going to call the police because then you know,
maybe your mom and dad are going to find out,
or your cousin is going to know your boss. You know,
you're you live in the closet, you know. And another

(01:13:22):
another thing too, and not in every state is uh,
this a protected class. So in many states it gets
under reported and police don't really do anything because it's
not a protected class.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
So there's a lot of.

Speaker 4 (01:13:36):
Discrimination that you know, people are exhibiting, especially for the
black and brown community, and I think it's important that
we talk about it, and I'm really really glad to
have a platform to do so, so thank you. Another
issue specifically for trans victims too, is that they will
be misgendered and dead named in police reports.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
It's just horrific. I know, I said I wasn't going
to talk about ditty anymore, but all right, I'm tying
one guy, just one little tease, little tease. So have
you guys heard about a'l be Sure? Yes, that is
a'l be Sure is the eldest Diddy son. Christian I

(01:14:15):
believe is Justin, Justin's birth father. And Albi Shore used
to be with kim Porter Diddy's ex and mother of
his beautiful beloved children. And then I think did he
adopted him? But then that's actually controversial because they're like, actually,
he didn't really adopt him. But anyway, a'l be sure
is basically saying there is no way that Diddy did

(01:14:38):
not have a hand in Kim Porter's passing allegedly, allegedly allegedly.
I want to unpack that because that's pretty major. This
is a tomorrow thing, Sorry everybody, but there's more Diddy
on a Tuesday, I'll be sure. And then also, do
you guys know who Jaguar right is? I don't know. Okay,

(01:14:59):
So she has been like doing all kinds of she's
very close to the circle. She used to be in
the jay Z world a bit, and then now she's
been talking about everybody under the sun and her stuff
is pretty controversial, but it's been tracking. So I'll share
a little bit more about that tomorrow. And I think
it's an important conversation for two reasons. Is all of
the media attention sucking us all in and confusing the

(01:15:21):
big ticket issues for people like me who are impressionable,
who are like forever done a rabbit hole? Or are
these people who are big time whistleblowers who have been
raising their hand about stuff that is very dangerous and
we've all been ignoring it or just assuming it's not
happening behind closed doors. And that's what I think about
the Ditty case. It has ripped open this underworld that

(01:15:44):
maybe we wouldn't have known exists. So do you think
you're caring by the celebrity, Oh? Yes, of it all?
Oh interesting, I'm speaking for myself, like I'm sure I
would have been back in the day and still am,
you know, like we talked about it to day, but
not today. No. But you know, if you're coming from
a small town that doesn't really have a lot of
that stuff, I get. I'm not saying that small town

(01:16:07):
people get sucked in easier, quite the opposite, But you know,
you could see all that glitteras sure, not always gold,
but I think you can get preyed upon pretty quickly,
especially with all that fame. And by the way, in
the Karen Reid case has been so divisive because we're
also getting a look into this underbelly of potentially nefarious
law enforcement action, and that again has got us all

(01:16:29):
tripped out. So I think it's really big stuff. Again,
it's not necessarily just about Ditty or just about Karen Reid.
It's like this big infrastructure around those cases they get
to talk about.

Speaker 4 (01:16:40):
I'm interested in the discourse around the cases because I
fear that moving forward, it's going to be like this
for every case, and I don't want it to be
because civil discourse is so important in this realm. And
when we start getting like crazy, hostile, threatening children and whatnot,
we've just.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
Lost the plot.

Speaker 3 (01:16:58):
Closing views, just hear them respectfully, and.

Speaker 4 (01:17:04):
It's okay to disagree, disagree all day.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
You should see Body and Courtney going toe to toe
all day fighting for my lord. Yeah that's true, that's true,
But no, those two will double trouble. Listen, we'll we're
gonna have much more on this to come tomorrow. I'm
crazy for you guys, Body, Courtney. Great night, Thank you

(01:17:33):
all for joining us. We'll be back tomorrow, so make
sure you tune in. This is true crime tonight. We're
talking true crime all the time. Have a great night.