Donna Adelson Wiretap Bombshells, David Taylor & Michelle Brannon Cult Indictment, and Therapy Thursday

Explosive wiretap evidence takes center stage in Donna Adelson’s murder-for-hire trial. Federal prosecutors indict David Taylor and Michelle Brannon, leaders of the Kingdom of God Global Church, on charges of forced labor and human trafficking. Plus, it’s Therapy Thursday with licensed therapist Jessica Kaplan, unpacking America’s mental health crisis. Tune in for all the details. 

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Thursday, August twenty eighth, and man,
we have a stacked net of headlines. I'm Stephanie Leidecker
and I head of Katy Studios where we make true
crime podcasts and documentaries, and I get to be here
every single night with crime producer Courtney Armstrong and crime

(00:40):
analyst Body Move in and listen. Last night was heavy.
If you were with us last night, it was a
heavy night. The news, the world, it all seemed a
little bit dark. So we're going to try to turn
that around tonight because we have with us a very
special guest. In the next segment, it is Therapy Thursday,
and and we have licensed therapists Jessica Kaplan with us.

(01:04):
She's sort of becoming our resident therapist when we're looking
for just some real time advice because look, jess knows
best right, so great, she's going to help us figure
out how to find mental health care and some tips
and tricks to do so.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
Also we're discussing this crazy sex.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Trafficking like dust that happened at this place posing as
a church.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
So much more on that to come.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
And also, you know, Body, she's been following our granny
gana awry again this murder for higher case with a
grandma who was really hell bent so on having her
son in law killed. Trial is ongoing. Body is going
to bring us all of the latest information. And remember
we want you to join the conversation eight eight eight

(01:50):
three one crime. You guys have been doing such a
great job giving us dms and messages and finding us,
so keep them coming. We're going to try to get
them all in tonight, we promise, but we're going to
have to talk super fast, so bear with me.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
Because we're going to go straight to.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
A talk back.

Speaker 5 (02:08):
Hi, guys, it's Cricket calling from Connecticut, calling about the
issue with finding a therapist. It is so difficult, but
most states have local agencies that will take people regardless
of insurance or no insurance. In fact, I think all

(02:29):
but Delaware, Hawaii, Rhode Island, South Carolina, and New Hampshire
have these agencies.

Speaker 4 (02:35):
So check into that.

Speaker 6 (02:36):
Wow, that's really good advice. I mean that again, as
long as the meetings could advice. I have great insurance
and I'm having to wait months for an appointment, months
and months and months.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Well that's one. How long the waiting listeners.

Speaker 7 (02:50):
Or something like that. Maybe I'll try that.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, And we've gotten a lot of reach out about this, so, body,
you're really striking a nerve on something that obviously is
resonating with so many of us. So I'm so glad
that Jessica Kaplan will be here to kind of guys.
She sure does ding ding ding ding, So yeah, who
does not know best? Unfortunately those seems to be granny.

(03:12):
Granny is up to no good all the time. What
is happening? We've gotten a lot of feedback from last
night's story, Body, so fill us in.

Speaker 6 (03:19):
A lot of people are following this case. So this
was day five of the trial Florida v. Donna Adelson,
and this murder trial is centering around or today, I'm sorry,
the case today is centering around a web of wiretap calls,
undercover operations, and like coded conversations suggesting her super deep

(03:41):
involvement in orchestrating the twenty fourteen murder of her former
son in law, Dan Markle, as we discussed, right, yes,
so yeah, Florida State law professor Dan Markle. He was
gunned down in twenty fourteen amid a super bitter custody
battle with his ex wife, Wendy Addelson, who again is

(04:03):
Donna Addelson's daughter, and they have they have children, and
Wendy wanted to take the children into South Florida to
move and Dan Markle, the victim, of course, was not
having it. So apparently the whole family got together to
conspire to have him basically murdered. If you don't know, uh,

(04:25):
there's already been several people in this this clan kind
of uh you know, sentenced already and now the final
one so far, well we think it's the final one.
The final one is grandma, who is Donna Ayelsen. So today,
oh go ahead, I was gonna say, do we think that.

Speaker 8 (04:46):
Since it appears in this moment, and again the trial
is not over, so everything is held, you know, until
that alleged down allegedly allegedly, but it seems to appear
that Grandma was the sort of driving for behind this.
Do we think maybe they went for the quote lesser
actors waiting for them to go to her at the

(05:07):
top of this mini conspiracy.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
She's like a granny godfather, you know, she really is
and granny godmother. She has really been pulling the strings
according to what we're hearing right now. But also what
about the daughter, mom Wendy. When is she going to
be brought up on charges? So I listen, I don't
know anything, because she's saying she knew nothing about it.

Speaker 6 (05:32):
I had no involvement. She said, she had no involvement
of killing her ex husband. Her mom is very controlling,
you know. Her brother, her brother of course, is already
serving time for this. He's the dentist that his girlfriend
had these Latin gan or Latin King gang affiliations, and
she basically they basically hired two of these people to

(05:55):
do the actual hit.

Speaker 7 (05:57):
It's a very tangled web. And to go ahead.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
I was going to say, I also heard that Granny
actually was going to pay one million dollars and that
was refused.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
Basically, she said, hey.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Listen, son in law, we'll give you a million dollars
for you to go away, right, and he was like, hard, No,
these are am I talking about? These are my children
and then the dentistry. They're a prominent dentist family, right,
paradontist I think is Yeah.

Speaker 6 (06:22):
So today jurors viewed and a video of an undercover
agent approaching Donna granny in Miami and handing her a
flyer with a photo of Dan or victim, a phone
number and five thousand dollars written on it. Okay, and
that's called a bump. And I'm gonna explain what that
is because I got some we got some questions because
I mentioned bump kind of in passing yesterday and people

(06:45):
don't know what that is.

Speaker 7 (06:46):
And I kind of assume people did, but they don't.

Speaker 8 (06:48):
I don't.

Speaker 7 (06:49):
Well, that's why I'm going to talk about it. So
a bump is.

Speaker 6 (06:52):
It's something the FBI does. It's an investigative technique in
which an undercover agent has staged like some kind of
face to face, you know, interaction with the subject of
an investigation, i e. In this case, they after the
two hitmen were arrested, the family went quiet, okay, and
the FBI was like, why aren't they talking? They're not,

(07:14):
you know, did we got this wiretap? Nobody's talking. So
they staged this bump to kind of shake the bushes, okay,
and what happened, and that's basically what happened. The FBI
agent handed Donna this flyer with Dan's face on it,
a phone number and five thousand dollars, and Donna just
kind of took it and she was very calm. But

(07:34):
that really raptled the family, and they started making phone calls,
you know, setting up, and they started talking in code,
and today we got to hear some of those calls
and it was very interesting. So that's what it means.
So the hitman they got arrested in twenty sixteen, and
the Adelson clan got kind of quiet, and in order

(07:54):
to smoke them out, the investigators, you know, they lacked
direct evidence to tie the Addison family to this murder
for higher plot, and they weren't cooperating, so the FBI calls.
You know, it wasn't an air tight case. So they
staged this bump to shake the bushes, and boy did
it work. It really really did. So it matters too,

(08:16):
because you know, this was like a big change in
the case, like finally they started talking, they started talking
in code. You know, there's a lot that happened, and
it's so hard to get into because there's so much.
So the court heard multiple phone calls between Donna. Now
Charlie is her son. He's also the dentist, and he's

(08:37):
already in prison for the murder.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
How long?

Speaker 4 (08:40):
How long don't you know? Yeah, like more than five years?
We think, oh.

Speaker 7 (08:43):
Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, for sure.

Speaker 6 (08:45):
Continued So multiple phone calls between Donna, Charlie, his girlfriend
Catherine who she's also in jail, two, and the two
hitmen in the days following the bump, so that they
here's I'm setting the stage. The FBI does this bump,
right and a sudden they're all calling each other.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
See yeah, it's just like they're all chatterboxes night paranoid.

Speaker 8 (09:08):
By the way, I just checked it out. Charlie Adelson
is serving a life sentence.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
What life life? Yeah, is so devastated.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Her brother is now serving life his brother, her brother's
girlfriend also not going to see sunlight for a while. No, mom,
it's not looking great. Where's dad, Where's Where's Where's Granddad?
Heard at the airport. He was at the airport when
she got arrested. I think he might be coming to now.

Speaker 6 (09:38):
A lot of people don't think Harvey is involved, but
there is some there's something there.

Speaker 7 (09:43):
Maybe I don't know if I'm gonna find out.

Speaker 8 (09:45):
Oh man, this is true crime tonight. We are on iHeartRadio.
I'm Courtney Armstrong here is Always with Body Moven and
Stephanie Leidecker. We are talking about the crazy case that
seems like this Grandma is, you know, like a mini
crime boss. So give us Paul if you want to
join this conversation eighty eight three one crime. And actually

(10:09):
we have a DM from one of our listeners, Cynthia.

Speaker 7 (10:15):
Hi, Cynthia, Yes, yes.

Speaker 8 (10:17):
Cynthia has She's an avid listener, so we always appreciate
hearing from you. And the question was about why evening everyone,
It's Cynthia from Canada. Why was Granny wearing headphones when
her daughter was testifying?

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Great question, she was. I thought that too, Cynthia. So
she was wearing these weird headphones. But they weren't like
beets or like Apple headphones. They were sort of like
the kind of get on an airplane right, like they
were not.

Speaker 3 (10:47):
Well or not was yesterday.

Speaker 6 (10:49):
They were just kind of like but today she was
wearing like the over the ear headphones, you know, but
they were flipped around like they she looked ridiculous, but
to good question. And so Donna's seventy five, and she
in the pre trial stuff, the pre trial hearings stuff.

Speaker 7 (11:07):
I'm so technical.

Speaker 6 (11:09):
She reported hearing problems and they were trying to like
it was part of a defense effort to spring her
from the Leon County detention facility, like she's this frail
you know, we see this a lot. We saw it
with Joseph DiAngelo, We saund it with Harvey Weinstein. You know,
they Bill Cosby, Bill Cosby, Right, they pretend to be
these like frail palypi and jail oh a day, right,

(11:34):
So they give her these headphones and what does she do.
She puts them on and they're inside out basically, So
basically the speakers were flipped out.

Speaker 7 (11:42):
It's ridiculous.

Speaker 4 (11:43):
It's like reading a newspaper upside.

Speaker 6 (11:45):
Down, right, So it's it's it is a bit of
a mini mystery and on why she's wearing them.

Speaker 7 (11:52):
But that's what people think.

Speaker 6 (11:53):
It goes back to the pre trial motions where they
were trying to spring her, you know, implying that she
was this old, feeble woman who couldn't handle jail and
wouldn't be able to stand trial while she's in jail.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Wow, it didn't work.

Speaker 6 (12:05):
Okay, it didn't work, So thank you for the DM though,
keep them coming. We definitely want to keep those coming.
So back to the testimony today, right, So the court
also heard yesterday I talked about the FBI recording them
at that restaurant, right, and the jury watched the recording today.
So the jury watched a secret recording of Charlie, the

(12:26):
dentist son right, and his girlfriend out of Miami restaurant
discussing the blackmail attempt and trying to figure out who
was behind this approach.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Right.

Speaker 6 (12:36):
They were arguing about who's going to call the number,
you know, and like they were kind of like semi
screaming at each other, but like low hushkey, very interesting.
And so this flyer, this bump really rattled the family.
They were basically sinking into paranoia. I mean it worked,

(12:56):
it was so effective. The court played audio of the
woman on trial calling the number, in which she denied
knowing key figures and insisted she had no connection to
the situation. Despite being visibly stressed and evasive. Charlie called
the number using that star six seven, you know, the
thing that hides your number when you you know your

(13:17):
your caller.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Idol and.

Speaker 6 (13:20):
Tried to probe like who's calling? Who is this later
describing the undercover agent to the girlfriend as probably a
cop fishing for information, showing you know.

Speaker 8 (13:31):
Yeah, oh what a entangled web. They we very good.
So we are going to stay on this case and
be following it as it evolves. And coming up after
the break, we are having licensed marriage and family therapist
Jessica Kaplan.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
She's joining us.

Speaker 8 (13:47):
She's going to give us all kinds of tips on
accessing mental health care badly needed.

Speaker 4 (14:02):
We have a very special guest back therapist.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
She's a licensed family and marriage therapist of like twenty
five years or something, very very She looks like she's twelve,
but actually twenty five years of experience, and she's here
to really talk about one of the issues that Body
had brought up last night. If you were with us,
it was sort of post to this harrowing information we
were learning about yesterday with the school shooting in Minneapolis

(14:27):
and just about access to mental health, and Body had
mentioned that she was finding it very difficult to access
mental health even with really good health insurance. What happens
if you have no health insurance, let alone bad health insurance.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
Listen, we're in it right.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
So the idea for this is just to create the
conversation and Jess is going to give us some tips
and tricks because Jess knows best. So if you have
any questions for her, you can. You know, we're going
to try to have her back regularly on Thursdays if
she'll have us, so you can start stacking your questions
to four Thursdays. But if you want to join her

(15:04):
live right now again eight eight eight three one crime.
In fact, we have a caller right now, Andy, Welcome
to the show.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Hi, I'm from Minnesotah, from Minnesota. I know with everybody there,
I know you guys are pushing through a really dark time.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
So we're sending you our love.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 9 (15:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (15:29):
I lost a child three years ago, and so when
things like this happen, it just like breaks my heart
all over again. You know, it's just so awful just
knowing what those parents are going through. But I was listening, Yeah,
I was listening to last night's show just now, and
I was listening to you body talk about how hard
it's been for you to access a therapist. And my

(15:52):
daughter was sixteen and she was really struggling after my
son's death, and we could not find her a therapist.
It took like six months for me to get hurt
after she lost a sibling.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Oh when, right, while in crisis as a family, you
would think that would be the easiest time to gain
access to mental health.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
And yeah, we're really sorry for your loss.

Speaker 7 (16:20):
Yeah, definitely sorry.

Speaker 10 (16:21):
I know it's so awful. You know, we'd make appointments
and then they would cancel and say, oh, we're not
taking any new people, or I canceled the day before. Yeah,
it's been awful. And it's like online people and like
the people that are local or not taking new clients.
And I don't know if it's COVID that has caused
you know a bunch of people, you know, the lockdown

(16:43):
and all the weird stuff that's been going on since.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, so you're right, Jessica, what do you say to this?
And again, thank you so much for the call. Andy,
Thank you so appreciate you calling, and.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
You so much.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Love your way. Yeah, yeah, brutal.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
This is you know how she's so on point, it's
ground zero. This is somebody who is having a crisis
as a family.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yes, yea, what is the answer here?

Speaker 11 (17:14):
I'm happy to be here again tonight and again. I
think this is such an important conversation to have, and
I think that it can be very confusing and frustrating
to try and access mental health support, especially when oftentimes
when those of us who are looking for mental health

(17:34):
support are already feeling, you know, stressed, overwhelmed. We might
not have all of the faculties that you need to
kind of go through the bureaucracy and the red tape,
so that need it to try and find the help
that you need, which makes it even more difficult. But

(17:54):
I have a few suggestions that I want to share
with everyone that I think might might be helpful. So
the first thing to think about is are you looking
for a therapist who's in network with insurance? So A,
do you have health insurance and so therefore you want
to try and find a therapist that is in network

(18:16):
with your health insurance, And the first most obvious place
to go is on your insurance's website, where you can
go in and look for a provider. I think sometimes
people get confused because oftentimes the way therapists are listed
on these websites is under behavioral health, and I don't

(18:37):
think everybody knows that. So when you're looking for a therapist,
you need to make sure that you put in behavioral health.
And then that's where your providers that are paneled with
your health insurance will be lifted and it will all
you put in your zip code or your area, and
it'll show what providers are accepting new clients. So that's

(19:00):
like step one. If you don't have any luck with that,
then another option is to go on to online therapy
directories and I'll give you some names of those in
a few minutes. But you go on to online therapist
directories and they have search filters, and you want to
put in those search filters that you're looking for a
therapist that has your insurance, so you will be a

(19:24):
place for you to actually if you have United Health insurance,
you put that in and then you put in your
zip code and accepting new clients and then you know
whoever is a provider within your health insurance will pop up.
And then the last option is to see a therapist
who's out of network, which means they don't accept your insurance.

(19:45):
But all almost all therapists will at least provide you
with what's called the super bill, which is kind of
like an invoice, and it will give all the important
information and codes necessary and you will personally submit that
into your insurance company for any reimbursement from your insurance company.

(20:09):
The issue with that is ahead of time, you want
to call your insurance company and ask them what you're
out of network deductible is or behavioral health. Usually most
most insurance plans have different deductibles for behavioral health and
other kind of like medical help, So you just want
to be specific when you call customer service to find

(20:32):
out what that is. For some people, they're out of
the network. Deductible is huge, like eight ten thousand, fifteen
thousand dollars, and it's going to be impossible really for
you to reach that before your insurance will start paying
for your therapy. But once in a while you might
be lucky. You might have an amazing plan where you're

(20:53):
out of network deductible is more like two or three
thousand dollars, which means, you know, maybe depending on how
much your therapist charges, you'll have to pay out a
pocket until you meet that deductible and then the rest
is covered. So that's if you have insurance, if you
don't have health insurance, or you do have insurance, but

(21:14):
any of the options I just discussed with you don't
work out for you. There are places that offer both
sliding scale fees and discounted rates for using interns or
students that are in a graduate program or associates who

(21:38):
are working towards licensure and they are working under the
supervision of a licensed therapist. So they will usually charge
you a major discount for you to see one of
these people instead, and then they go in and they
get supervised on your case by the lead therapist. I

(22:02):
recommend no matter where you go or what you do,
you can always ask if they provide a sliding scale,
which just basically means they're willing to work with you.
They look at your income, they look at all of
your expenses, and the two of you together collaborate to
find a price that works for both of you. And
as far as finding those places that have the interns

(22:25):
and the associates, you need to look at schools or
colleges in your area that have graduate programs in psychology
and social work. You just need to call and talk
to the program administrator and ask nonprofit, nonprofits, churches, mental
health counseling places often have sliding scales and interns working

(22:51):
for them, So you just have to do a little
research in that regard and you can find hopefully a
discounted rate. The other thing too, I want I also
wanted to say one other thing that that's important. When
you're emailing or calling and leaving a voicemail for a therapist,

(23:15):
I recommend leaving a few details so that when they
read the email or they hear your voice smail, they
know exactly what you're looking for. Tell them if you
have insurance, ask them if they take your insurance. Tell
them what your availability is in one or two sentences,
tell them why you're reaching out for help. I think
that facilitates from calling you back.

Speaker 7 (23:37):
Yeah, good idea.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
Those are really good taps.

Speaker 4 (23:39):
One hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
You hear someone like our caller Andy, whose daughters you know,
just lost her brother and you know and mom and
that are grieving.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Also, it's like who has the facilities.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
To really smile and dial for five days to be
able to find the help.

Speaker 6 (23:54):
That's that's the issue. Yeah, you know you're dealing with depression.
It's already hard enough courus can't get.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Out of the bag.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
Point.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, you don't want to talk to anybody, let alone
finding the person.

Speaker 4 (24:03):
So that's a really good tip, Jess, really really good.

Speaker 11 (24:07):
Yes, I always stay to my clients when they show
up for their first appointment that the hardest part is over.
And I really mean the hardest part is just finding
the therapist, going through all of this red tape, finding
your way to the office, sitting down, carving out that
time for yourself is the biggest step I my therapy.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
And by the way, I would miss it never for
my life. One hour a week. I do it on
the phone. I mean honestly, wor even passing.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
That's if I want.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
It's a phone call, and like it could be. It
doesn't matter where in the world I am. I will
find my way to a car and like get on
that phone call. And I do not miss it, because
everything depends on just having a place to sort of
speak freely and get really you know, solid, unbiased you know.

Speaker 6 (24:57):
Advice right and tools to me tool of the day right, exactly.

Speaker 11 (25:02):
Absolutely, And I'm I'm thinking about Andy's question and just
thinking about how she was looking, you know, for a
therapist for her sixteen year old who was breathing a
loss of her sibling. Sometimes it's helpful to to ask
your pediatrician, your primary care doctor, your school counselor your

(25:22):
school therapist. If you belong to a church or a
synagogue or a mosque, ask your leaders there if they
have any therapists that they've worked with, if they recommend
you know, it's important to utilize those resources too. Oftentimes
those people in the community have connections, so that's that's

(25:43):
another another option. And I also just didn't want to
forget to just suggest a few therapy directories online that
people can go to that have really good filters for searching.
As far as if you need a discount, a sliding
scale depending on what your insurance are, do you like
telehealth or in person? All of those are part of

(26:05):
the filter system. So there's one called open PATHA.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yes, you're going to hold for one second. I know
you didn't want to. We're gonna have to take you.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
Have you come back for one more segments one seconds
this one, so we'll be right back. Can you stay
with us?

Speaker 4 (26:19):
Everyone?

Speaker 2 (26:30):
It's a therapist Thursday and our very own resident marriage
and family therapist, Jess Kaplin is back with us, and
she's giving us some real time tips about how to
cut through the clutter when you can't seem to not
only find a therapist, but find a therapist who.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
Is available, who will take you.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
This on the heels of the conversation we had last
night after the hideous shooting in Minneapolis. We were saying
it's not easy to find access to mental health.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
Whether you have health insurance or not.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
And Jess was giving us some suggestions, and you had
a couple of places that you wanted to mention. Jess,
I know we're holding you much longer than expected. You'll
be unsurprised by this, but we wanted to make sure
we didn't cut you off. So can you tell us
again those places that you said we should reach out to?

Speaker 11 (27:21):
So I thought it was very important to just share
a few of the online therapist directories.

Speaker 12 (27:29):
Ye.

Speaker 11 (27:29):
People can go to these and put in exactly what
they're looking for. Are they looking for therapy for a
child and adolescent, an adult, couples therapy, family therapy, your
specific insurance that you want to use if you prefer
telehealth or in person. All of these are all different
filters that can be used on these websites and then

(27:51):
you can directly email or call the therapist. It shows
a list that shows the bios. You can see their pictures,
you can see a little blurb about their approach to therapy,
and then if it's something that interests you and works
for you, you then can email them or call them
to contact them about an appointment. So the first one

(28:17):
that I want to mention is one called Open Path
Psychotherapy Collective. This is a really good one because it
has a lot of filters around finding affordable therapy. So
if that's your issue, you're you're not able to use
your insurance so you don't have health insurance, that's a
good one to go to to be able to look

(28:39):
and see if there are any therapists in your area.
If you prefer in person, and if telehealth is okay
with you, then that affords you to maybe see a
therapist that isn't local. And then the other ones that
are even more well known that are also good and helpful.

(29:03):
Psychology today, Oh dot com, therapydn dot com and good
Therapy are all ones where you can go on and
search through and see what you can turn up for yourself.
And then the last thing I wanted to mention because
I think sometimes we get we're not really sure the

(29:27):
right verbige to use when we're reaching out for therapy,
especially if we're looking for something that's more affordable, and
maybe a therapist that provides the sliding scale option, or
an intern or a student, a grad student where you
can get discounted therapy. So in your email or on

(29:48):
your voicemail message, or if you call the coordinator of
the counseling center and you speak to someone directly, you
can just say, do you offer sliding scale prices? That's
that's that's the simple question. You can also say if
you're calling a school or a grad program, a university,

(30:11):
that you can just say, do you have any interns
or student therapists offering reduced rates?

Speaker 3 (30:17):
That's it.

Speaker 11 (30:17):
It's that simple, and it's always good to just ask
because you you never know, and it doesn't it doesn't
hurt to ask. If they have it, they'll offer it
to you. So I also find too that sometimes because
I have to admit I'm guilty of this every once
in a while, which is if I'm getting a lot

(30:40):
of emails or voice messages with people calling to inquire
about therapy, and possibly make an appointment. Every once in
a while, one falls through the cracks and I forget
to respond or you know, it gets lost in my voicemail.
And it's not that I don't want to respond or

(31:04):
I'm not open to taking on a new client. Every
so often it just gets missed. So I would recommend
that if you email a therapist, or you leave a
voicemail for a therapist and they don't get back to
you within a week, send another email, leave another voicemail.
I would say that if they don't respond to that,

(31:24):
we'll move on. But it's worth just checking in two
times because it might just be as simple as they.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah, and they have busy lives also, and I think
also being you know, articulate about what the immediate issue
is might be helpful too. That's very smart, even if
it's just so they remember, oh, this is the person
who's dealing with the loss of a child, or who's
inquiring about therapy for their grieving daughter or whatever.

Speaker 11 (31:53):
The thing is right, And it also it saves you
time because if you are leaving a message and you
are saying that there was a death in the family
and I'm experiencing a lot of grief and I would
like a therapist, and you're emailing or leaving a voicemail
for a therapist who does not specialize in grief but

(32:15):
has a colleague who does exactly right away, that therapist
can email you and say, I'm going to recommend this
therapist for you. This isn't my specialty, and it saved
you a step.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yep.

Speaker 11 (32:28):
So it's just facilitate the process. And we all know
that when someone is finally making a point to call
and reach out in this way, it is such a
big deal that we want to try and make this
process as seamless as possible. So I highly recommend leaving
some details about what you're looking for when you reach out.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
And one other thing too.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
You know, when someone's in crisis, and we've all been there,
you know, friends, family, they're like, how can I help?

Speaker 4 (32:58):
How can I help? You know what?

Speaker 2 (32:59):
This be a good task to ask somebody who cares
about you. Hey, I need to find a therapist and
I don't have it in me right now. Here's a
list of twelve people if you wouldn't mind calling them
and leaving them messages because I'm at my last leg.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
By the way, people want to help.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
That list of twelve is a devastator dead end when
you're in the thick of it. I've been there where
it just seems like even one phone call is too many.
But if you can reassign that it's major and like
it's somebody's pleasure, God willing, and you know, we've got
to create a community even here amongst us too. If

(33:38):
you don't feel like you have that person or a friend,
let's all, you know, keep the communication going because it's
important stuff.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Also just to say, in my case, a phone call
is really helpful.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
All this in person stuff is a pretty big commitment,
and there's waiting lists. Yeah, telehealth like who cares, Like
it's just instant access to an unbiased the smart voice,
and you know what, you can absolutely make it happen.
And sometimes, as in my case, it's much less expensive
that way.

Speaker 4 (34:09):
So food for that.

Speaker 11 (34:10):
Yes, I think the telehealth has been a lifesaver for
a lot of clients who don't have reliable transportation, don't
have reliable childcare, and they can just go and sit
in the on the floor in their closet and have therapy,
or they go and they sit in their cars in

(34:31):
their driveway because that's a quiet, private space, and they're
able to stay consistent with therapy because they don't have
to worry about getting a ride or finding a fitter,
let alone the extra expense of any kind of transportation
or babysitter too.

Speaker 8 (34:49):
It just.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
It's a three hour ordeal.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Honestly, I'm going to tell you I've done it like
outside the grocery store, because it's like, you know, no
matter what is happening in in the eye of the storm,
that one hour sets the stage for the entire week
and important stuff. And frankly, I've learned this from you,
Jessica Couplin. So yeah, I think we'll turn it all
in it together. Thank you for sharing. I know we've

(35:16):
kept you longer than promise.

Speaker 11 (35:18):
So welcome. Absolutely, you're saving lives.

Speaker 7 (35:22):
Just knows best.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
I just knows, jess And make sure to love you,
sweet jess. So we'll see you next Thursday. Looking forward
to it. Mark the calendar.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
Taha.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
She just said, yes, awesome.

Speaker 6 (35:34):
Thank you, Jessica, Jessica, thank you so much for being
here for another mini therapy Thursday.

Speaker 7 (35:39):
Jess knows best. That's what we're going to be calling us.

Speaker 6 (35:42):
I really appreciate your insight as we you know, deal
with all these really difficult topics.

Speaker 7 (35:46):
You're you're saving lives for real exactly.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
Thank you so much. Bye bye. Wow.

Speaker 7 (35:52):
She's great, She's just a mess.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
And again, if anybody has any questions, they can just
DM the show or d m us directly and make
sure those guests don't those best. Well, you know, we're
not therapist, right like you know guy me therapy. Okay,
who doesn't. I think we all do. It's like you
can't have a functional car without occasionally bringing it to
the car wash and to get oil, right, So we're humans.

Speaker 4 (36:18):
It's the exact same speed.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
So I'm not prescribing anything, but I'm sure what I
would have done.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
No, this is true.

Speaker 6 (36:25):
Current tonight on iHeart Radio, I'm Buddy Movin and I'm
here with Courtney Armstrong, Stephanie Leidecker and we just had
therapists Jessica Kaplan on.

Speaker 7 (36:33):
She's wonderful.

Speaker 6 (36:34):
We've been taking you know, we've been talking about mental
health crisis in the United States, and we you know,
we want to hear from you. Give us a calladay
to eight thirty one crime or use the talkbacks on
the iHeart radio app, but for now I think we
have a talkback.

Speaker 13 (36:46):
Hey ladies, Adams from Canada, thanks for the shout out
from the Leslie Stephanie. I definitely love the community.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
That's right.

Speaker 13 (36:55):
True Crime has given us all. I have a question
about Gonzales. I hope he talked about doing something where
BK's commissary would be would have to go to the families.
I'm wondering if you knew if anything came to fruition
around that would love that concept.

Speaker 10 (37:18):
To be adopted for sure.

Speaker 13 (37:21):
Anyways, chat later.

Speaker 6 (37:22):
By Yeah, So it's my understanding that Steve was going
to try to basically, you know, take the commissary that
Brian Coberger would be receiving from like his fans, right,
like his stupid little history provally of fans right. I
can't pronounce that word for some reason. AnyWho, I don't

(37:45):
think that happened, but I do think it's in the works. Initially,
he was going to do it to pay for the
firing squad. Do you guys remember that, right? But now
that he's played guilty and there's no death penalty, I
don't know the status of that right now. I do
know that he did imply that he wanted to create
a law in the state of Idaho that would basically

(38:07):
confiscate a portion of those ones. You're not gonna be
able to get all of it, right, I mean, he's
going to have to he needs to buy top Ramen, right,
and you can't take all of it. But I do
know that he is potentially working on it, So stay
tuned for that. Will definitely be keeping up to date
if we get any information on that.

Speaker 7 (38:25):
Great question. Yeah, really good question.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
And listen, we're again it's dance music time.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Don't forget.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Later in the show, we got to talk about Cardi
b back in court. If you guys have been following that,
it is so too much. I wish it would do
some lyrics and raps for us, right.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
That great?

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Okay, that song kind of conjures it up a little bit, so.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
We're going to go straight to a talk back.

Speaker 14 (38:49):
Hi, ladies here. I did my homework. I watched The
Son of Sam. I also live through that time. I
am from West Virginia, so it is in that manner.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
But I remember it being on the.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
And I remember being so scared for the people in
New York and what they were going through.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
His craziness and that psychologists I have to say, come on,
her techniques questionable?

Speaker 7 (39:17):
Oh yeah, the toys with the little gun.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Can we just discuss that. I actually fell asleep thinking
about that. Even did you really post our conversation? It
just seems so archaic, And you can't tell me that
that didn't have some sort of an imprint or.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
Words.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
He might not be the most reliable witness, you know,
but I listen, even just objectively as an outsider looking in,
it seemed dangerous.

Speaker 6 (39:48):
Dare I say, well, I mean, he definitely used a gun.
I mean, is there a correlation? I don't know, but
it's easy to blame the Therapist's interesting to David.

Speaker 7 (40:00):
It's not us.

Speaker 6 (40:02):
But it's easy for David Berkowitz to be in prison
and being like, well, maybe it was that, you know
what I mean, Like, I don't necessarily think it was,
though I really don't.

Speaker 7 (40:09):
Well maybe I don't know.

Speaker 6 (40:10):
Well, I mean maybe because it's part of his healing, right,
it's part of his healing, So maybe he equates that to,
you know, feeling better or something.

Speaker 7 (40:17):
I don't know. I don't know anything. Listen, I need
therapy myself, one of my I get it.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
I did ayahuasca in a jungle, so I get you stars.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
I want to go.

Speaker 7 (40:26):
I want to go do ayahuasca so bad. I want
to go down to Peru.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
You have to do a whole segment on it. Can
we Yeah, I did the Peru thing. I I I'm
not sure that I would say it's worth really Yeah,
but a story for a different day.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
But yeah, I'm dying.

Speaker 7 (40:41):
I want to know all about people.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
I can't wait. But gig by the way, you're.

Speaker 8 (40:46):
Such a good for doing here. We'll do ayahuasca Thursday
another day.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
For sure.

Speaker 4 (40:53):
It was a long time ago.

Speaker 8 (40:55):
But uh, yeah, we're so glad that you followed up
with the assignment.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
Yeah, anyway, I just want to say.

Speaker 3 (41:01):
Thank you're our star. Pupil.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
By the way, gg exactly, we have another talk about
more quick talkback.

Speaker 15 (41:08):
Hey, this is Steve from Vegas. I have a quick
question about what happens to all of the evidence that's
collected in a case like the Idaho murders. Does it
stay in evidence forever or does it eventually get destroyed?
Does it like go uh someplace like what happens like

(41:30):
to the missing wall section and all the photographs and
stuff banks.

Speaker 6 (41:35):
Right, great question, Steve. So it can be in long
term storage for decades. It really depends on the status
of the case. Right, So, active cases and pending appeals,
evidence is kept as long as the case is still
active or could be appealed. Cold cases they're kept in
climate controlled lockers and in rooms for as long as
the case is cold. If somebody has you know, a

(42:00):
been a adjudicated, they'll keep it. Oh they'll also keep
it because listen, times change, technology changes, there might be
an appeal that is rendered later down the road. So
basically they're going to keep the stuff forever, right, especially
like you can post conviction DNA testing that happens now.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
So yeah, it's great shocking. It's sometimes just in actually
like a paper box. So you know what are those
boxes called that you you know, literally like a price.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
Oh here's oh, here's the evidence.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
I can't tell you how many times we have now
had evidence presented from a box from twenty five years ago.

Speaker 6 (42:37):
Right, we're gonna jump right into headlines. I'm not going
to be messing around, Courtney.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
What do we got? Oh my word?

Speaker 8 (42:54):
Okay, so this is good word, Oh my words. So
we're gonna give you the headlines tonight and this is
a case we will will be following. So a guy
named David Taylor and a woman named Michelle Brannon. They
are self proclaimed religious leaders of the Kingdom of God
Global Church.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
Sounds nice, right? Is this a cult?

Speaker 16 (43:15):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (43:17):
I am sad? Oh sad?

Speaker 7 (43:21):
Me let me just tell you, okay, okay, So this way.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Can you stop before you go in for the court.
What does that mean? I am sad? Does that mean
I'm paying attention? I am I'm paying attention. I'm listening.
I cannot wait to hear the story. I'm all I
love the cult stories.

Speaker 7 (43:34):
I am sad.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
I'm okay.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
So anybody listening, we are all sad right now, as
Courtney takes it away Red Cross.

Speaker 8 (43:44):
So, these two, this man and woman at the head
of the God Global Kingdom of God Global Church, they've
been indicted for operating a forced labor and human trafficking scheme.
It has gone on for more than a decade, and
it is cross multiple state lines. And this pair seems

(44:05):
if what is alleged is true, if even a portion
of what is alleged is true, they are truly despicable.
They allegedly exploited followers through psychological control, through unpaid labor. Yeah,
we got physical abuse. They used millions of dollars in
donated funds and finance and finance the most lavish lifestyle

(44:27):
you can imagine. And this is all under the guise
of ministry.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
I mean they like just top one.

Speaker 8 (44:34):
They the church received about fifty million dollars over the
past ten years, five zero.

Speaker 4 (44:41):
Five zero million.

Speaker 8 (44:43):
And what this pair would do is they would use
their followers, the people in the cult, as call center
operators who worked insane hours. Some were forced to sleep
at these call centers. If they did not hit the
monetary goals that these two are alleged to have said,

(45:04):
then they would have literally their food taken away or diminished.
They would have their beds taken away or diminished. They
would be brought to homeless shelters, kind of as a
peak of you're going to be here if you don't
get to calling.

Speaker 7 (45:19):
You know what sounds like I'm a little afraid to say, actually.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Rhyme with rhymantology. Have you guys reached out to the niece?
By the way, I don't want to jump around. I
know I'm interrupting the flow here, but I have been
obsessed with the two.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
Dying from Scientology. I have reached out to her. I
haven't heard back yet, but.

Speaker 6 (45:42):
She's been very busy. She's very busy right now. Was
she is what it sounds like Courtney, or it sounds
like the sea Org.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
Yes, Seawork is also just the place that Scientology sends
young adults.

Speaker 4 (45:56):
That is, their family.

Speaker 6 (45:57):
Attract her a billion year contract and they for free,
and they get stuff taken away from them when they
don't meet their monetary goals and et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera.

Speaker 8 (46:05):
Okay, go ahead, yes, And so that is what this pair,
David Taylor and the woman what is her name, I've
raced it from my mind, Michelle Bannon, So that they've
been charged for the forced labor all of the above
and this they had victims in Michigan, in Florida, in
Texas and Missouri. And do you know what they spent

(46:30):
this fifty million dollars on while they're literally taking food
out of people's.

Speaker 6 (46:34):
Guests, boats, mansions, cruise boots.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
Yes, we're looking at top line.

Speaker 8 (46:40):
We are looking at four Mercedes Benzes, three Bentley's, one Rolls, Royce,
bulletproof materials, for their vehicles because they are Mui and
portante five counted five ATVs four jet skis.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
You are kidding me right now? Who are these people?

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Well? So did they have leaves?

Speaker 6 (46:59):
Did they Did they separate the members of the church
from like their family and stuff too?

Speaker 3 (47:04):
Did they do? You know? Did they do? They were?
It was they were very controlled.

Speaker 8 (47:08):
So what what the people who worked they were called
armor bearers and they really did whatever this guy David
Taylor asked and just bowed to you know, bowed to
his whims And yeah, they would suffer public humiliation if
they didn't meet these unattainable goals of donations. And sex

(47:34):
trafficking appears to come into play as well. So Taylor
at the head and he had his armor bearers w
the people under his control. He had them transport women
from ministry houses, airports and other locations to him and
ensure that the women were transported had planned be emergency contraceptives.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
Oh my god, so.

Speaker 4 (48:00):
He was having sex with them?

Speaker 8 (48:03):
That, I mean, that's what it would make sense. I
don't know why else you're making sure people are locked
and loaded with plan.

Speaker 4 (48:10):
B Wow, and how they were Yeah.

Speaker 6 (48:12):
Idios, No, I'm reading this here, It says the indictment
recounted a text set on May fifth, in which Taylor
wrote that his staff had to raise one hundred and
sixty four thousand dollars that day, or we will mess
with the food for every hour.

Speaker 7 (48:28):
They fell behind. Wow, they really were messing with these people.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
It was horrible. They would pour water in their faces
while they slept. Oh my god.

Speaker 8 (48:37):
So these were like prisoners, Yes, essentially forced labor.

Speaker 4 (48:42):
Most cults sort of ride that way.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
Is that accurate?

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Like most cults start out kind of you know, fun
and games, and boy takes a real left turn and
becomes like a prison.

Speaker 4 (48:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (48:53):
Well, and I guess like once you're in it too,
it's hard to get out because, like, you don't have
any money because you're not getting paid, right, you know
that you have at least a room and board.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
It's kind of your head.

Speaker 6 (49:04):
Can you become dependent on the quote unquote community that
you're entrenched in.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
It's very sad, and you're.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Also isolated from your loved one, anybody in your family
or friend group who may be saying to you, hey,
this seems a little off or a little intense. Those
people are cut off, So you're isolated, right.

Speaker 6 (49:24):
And let me tell you if you hear my voice
and you were in a cult right now and you
want out, I promise you if you call your family,
they are going to help you that, you know what
I mean, Like, they're not going to care that you
cut them off.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
Right, That's exactly right.

Speaker 8 (49:37):
It's really such a large part of people being kept
under control is convincing. It's you know, brainwashing and saying
no and you are useless to anyone else in your life.

Speaker 4 (49:47):
And it's just not true.

Speaker 8 (49:49):
And what this guy purported, this is according to the
Department of Justice, he proclaimed you was an apostle. That
he is he claimed half face to face encounter with
Jesus Christ who came to him in a dream. And
so he really if you're buying what he's selling, which

(50:10):
this guy must have been some charismatic cat, you know,
he would be such a pivotally important person in your life, right,
I mean.

Speaker 6 (50:16):
If you really believe Jesus appeared to him, and you
really believe in you know, Jesus Christ and whatnot, and
you're going to do whatever he says, right, that's right.
That's religious manipulation.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
I don't like that.

Speaker 4 (50:28):
Yeah, So it's real crime.

Speaker 8 (50:30):
We will we will keep on this case as it
continues to evolve.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
It has not gone to trial.

Speaker 8 (50:36):
And listen, give us a call eighty eight three one
crime if you have any cult cases or really any
cases you want us to follow. Obviously, this is true
crime tonight and we always want to hear from you.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
And I think now, oh, Stephanie, Yes.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
It reminds me also in Courtney Body. We should discuss
this because it was an Idaho that church that also
shares so much of the land in Moscow, Idaho was
being bought up by this It's christ Church, if I'm
not mistaken, and they have very really unique fundamental views
and we should do a deep dive into that because

(51:14):
again that wouldn't be air quotes a cult.

Speaker 4 (51:17):
But it is controversial, kind of kind of.

Speaker 8 (51:21):
It's very it's very controversial. It's it's definitely a little
bit culty, and it is a place where women who
were sexually mistreated.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
Let's just put that minket on it.

Speaker 8 (51:34):
Yeah, that was completely kept under wraps under the guise
of church and you know, will spirit heal this out
of you.

Speaker 6 (51:41):
And there was just a lot of you know, in
the in the Moscow, Idaho case the student murderers. Of course,
with Brian Coberger as the murderer, there was a lot
of people who, you know, you know, there's a lot
of people who like, you know, to dabble in the
conspiracy theories, and there was a lot of the christ
Church integration into the murder's conspiracy theories going around. So

(52:02):
it was really a big part of, you know, the
conspiracy part of this case.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
And to add to that, and again I'm just saying
this top of heads, so anybody correct me if my
facts are dated. But at the time when we were
making the podcast, we did a pretty deep dive into
christ Church. And what was interesting is this group really
wanted to be separate of all us law. That's like
sort of the principle of the church. And they were

(52:28):
buying up like all of Main Street basically, so they
were buying up as much property and then putting parishioners
in those locations, so just by a population grab, there
were a lot of church members in and around Moscow.
In this particular group, because of sex charges that were
brought up against one of the main parishioners, they have

(52:50):
a real disdain for law enforcement. So at one point
we had been it had been reported in our reporting
as well that several people in the town were concerned
that when choosing a jury in Moscow, that you were
going to inevitably have christ Church members as a part
of the jury, you know, jury just as a numbers

(53:11):
game because it was a multiplying population and because of
their disdain for law enforcement. Having nothing to do with
the Idaho case, but more about the charges brought up
against the church, that it was going to be a problem.
And you know, there was like some conspiracy chatter that
that also played a part in the trial getting moved

(53:33):
outside to Boise.

Speaker 6 (53:35):
That's necessarily so much of a conspiracy as Yeah, maybe
like speculations on tacts, right, Like I think that could
definitely have been an issue.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
I do.

Speaker 8 (53:43):
Oh yeah, had it come to their absolutely, Yeah. So
from how about we moved from the cults to Carti Yes,
to be step we switch gears because, like Cardie's been
in the press, I know, I want to talk about
little nas also, you know, again there's things that we
just can't I love both of them too.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
By the way, if you are.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Not a fan of Cardi B, and if Cardi B
is a performer and artist Grammy Award winning She's from Bronx,
New York.

Speaker 4 (54:12):
She's personality.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Plus I would sing one of her songs, but you know,
I won't torture you guys. She's so fun and just
so we both were so just for you to see
her on the stand. Is not to minimize what has
been alleged, but it was.

Speaker 4 (54:30):
Riotous, you know, Cardie.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
She came in full throttle and had the she almost
has a Lucille.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
Ball vibe about her a little bit.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
And she's so incredibly authentic and she has her different
wigs on every day. And essentially it's like a twenty
four million dollar lawsuit that's being brought against her civilly
because the claim is that when Cardi B was leaving
her Beverly Hills obgyn her she was four months pregnant.
By the way, so if you've had a baby, you
could imagine you go for your tests, et cetera. You know,

(55:02):
you don't necessarily feel like chatting it up with security.
Allegedly security, this you know person last name Ellis says
that they had a bit of an altercation and that
Cardi B scratched her in the face and spit on
her and it's caused all kinds of mental anguish and

(55:23):
has caused you know, medical appointments, et cetera.

Speaker 4 (55:26):
And now the.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Bill is real high. We're talking like twenty four plus
billion dollars. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Yes, So Carti has been on the stand basically saying like, hey,
what not gonna happen?

Speaker 4 (55:40):
Can everybody do their best? Cardi B do it? Court,
you do it good?

Speaker 3 (55:43):
Oh yeah, I'll do it.

Speaker 6 (55:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you. Oh yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
So I thought she was rivaling with in the stallion,
but that's no accurate, no, Nicki Minaj.

Speaker 7 (56:05):
Yes, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (56:06):
It's a tough one.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
I like them vote so much like Cardie. A little
boogie going on in the control room right now. We
all have like the little mini boogie. Everyone's like a little.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
Bit chair pot Cardi B. Yeah, we're all doing a
little Cardi B by.

Speaker 8 (56:20):
Sam in the control room going is going nuts, Adam's
doing backflips.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
It's we encourage everybody to dance in the breaks.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
There we go yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 4 (56:35):
Yes, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
If you guys are feeling unsettled or just like have
nervous energy, a little dance break during the commercials is
not a bad thing. So little Uh, that's my only
psychological advice that I'll ever give.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Yeah, Court, we have also this Kayak story you were
going to tell us about.

Speaker 8 (56:56):
Actually it's body that's been nuts over this Kaiak story,
So bring it.

Speaker 6 (57:01):
So this okay, I don't know if you guys have
heard about this. It's kind of it's it's a little lighthearted,
but it's also very serious. At the same time, this
guy faked his own death to get away from his
wife and children. So this guy, Ryan borg walked, he lives.
I know he's He's in Wisconsin. He faked his own
drowning in August of twenty twenty four to secretly travel

(57:23):
overseas and meet a woman he had met online, basically
leaving his wife and three children in the process. Okay, So,
after a month long investigation revealing clues including passport and
travel to several different countries, he was located in the
country of Georgia and persuaded to return to the US.

(57:43):
He pled no contest to obstructing law enforcement and was
sentenced to eighty nine days in jail, one for each
day the authorities spent searching for him, which is pretty
you know appropriate, I have right, so.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
He deserves more. Oh, I didn't like his family was
looking for him. I thought he died.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
Can you imagine?

Speaker 2 (58:02):
And this clown is off gallivanting because you met some
girl online and wants to sort of be on that
TLC show.

Speaker 4 (58:09):
What is the name of that show?

Speaker 2 (58:10):
When they can I can't stop watching.

Speaker 4 (58:15):
It got through covid.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
It literally got COVID.

Speaker 7 (58:18):
I think I would be so good on that show.
I want to show.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Yeah, you would be so good on that Who would
you want you want delivered to you?

Speaker 3 (58:25):
Wait?

Speaker 4 (58:25):
What who would you want delivered to you?

Speaker 17 (58:28):
Like?

Speaker 3 (58:28):
Who would you who would you.

Speaker 4 (58:29):
Need to be perfect match?

Speaker 3 (58:31):
Yeah? I'm where Ireland?

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Okay, that's so exotic, So you can go to Ireland.
We can make this a segment where you go to Ireland.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
To it, yes, and producers reach out to me.

Speaker 6 (58:44):
Okay, So this and this guy though ry Ryan, Okay,
he abandoned his family to go gallivanting in you know,
in Georgia, the country, not the stame by the way.

Speaker 7 (58:56):
Okay, he faked his own drowning.

Speaker 6 (58:58):
He secretly met this woman in Uzbekistan, in the country
of Georgia. So he abandoned his wife of twenty two
years they were married. Can you imagine you think your
husband's dead, You're grieving, You're like, oh my god, what's happening?
We need to find kid drawn? And then you find
out he abandoned you to go gallivanting and meet a

(59:18):
woman he met online, a great.

Speaker 8 (59:21):
Thing that he was locked up to keep that woman
from herself, Like, could you imagine what you would want
to do to that?

Speaker 2 (59:28):
And they had children too, children, say two kids, and
those three kids were mourning the loss of dad. By
the way, did you see him, I mean even just
seeing him in court kind of having to face the music.
First of all, I'm just gonna say it, he seems
like a super nerd. Right, So this guy is chasing
some younger tale overseas, and yet his kids and his

(59:50):
wife of twenty years think that he's dead. You know
how many resources And this is not the funny part,
So that eighty nine days is real, eighty nine days
that the police and law enforcement and the Coastguard were
looking for his dopey But meanwhile it's a waste of resources.

(01:00:11):
Who knows what other catastrophic events could have been saved
during those eighty nine days. That's right, those resources were
being allocated.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
To the wrong guy, right, the nerrve.

Speaker 7 (01:00:22):
His wife, of course, divorced him.

Speaker 6 (01:00:24):
She was like bye, yeah, she divorced, so he in
addition to dale time, he paid thirty thousand dollars in
restitution and was divorced by his wife four months after returning.
She was like bassed by She was like you know, yeah,
like I wouldn't put up with that.

Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
Are you kidding?

Speaker 13 (01:00:39):
Mean?

Speaker 7 (01:00:39):
Give me a break.

Speaker 6 (01:00:40):
So he had this elaborate plan by the way too,
like he had this like inflatable raft. He dumped his id.
He rode an electric bike for seventy miles, like he
planned all this out like this was very interct. He
rode an electric bike for seventy miles. Then he took
a bus to Caket, Hanada before flying to Europe and

(01:01:02):
then finally did Georgia. So, Ryan, I hope you enjoyed
jail and losing that thirty thousand dollars And.

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
Are they still together?

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Is The's what I was going to have girl in Georgia.

Speaker 7 (01:01:13):
I don't believe saying no, I don't believe.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
So I hope it was worth it, man, hope it
was right. Whyn't I just break up?

Speaker 6 (01:01:21):
I know, well maybe he didn't. Maybe I don't know
if he's got money, and maybe he didn't want, you know,
to pay the wife anything or whatever.

Speaker 7 (01:01:27):
But you know, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
It just never ends. Well. I mean, Stephanie, how many stories.

Speaker 8 (01:01:34):
Did we do specifically for that, the podcast Crazy in
Love where people were driven to you know, madness and
murder you to love.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
And yes, the answer always should be breakup.

Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
If it's time to break up, if it never goes.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
Well, if you don't want to be with me anymore.

Speaker 7 (01:01:53):
Just tell me. I'll go away, you know what I mean.

Speaker 8 (01:01:55):
I'll go to Zbeka, stan on a raft and a
bike and guy.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
Thinks he's like what is he doing with the raft?

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
And he's on the motorbike Like this guy thinks he's
Tom Cruise in mission impossible, just trying to.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
Go buy some love.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
I mean, he's like in a bomber jacket. It's absurd.
And then you see him in court and his little
button up You're like, this guy, really, this is that guy?

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
It's insane.

Speaker 6 (01:02:20):
Yeah, But I mean think of the think of the
woman in Georgia though, like he did all of that
stuff to be with her, and you know, it's just like, wow,
that's crazy, because like my entire family.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Thinks I'm dead so that I could be with you.
I'm sure he didn't say that she might be the.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
Last enough she knew.

Speaker 7 (01:02:36):
I don't know what she knew.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
What's kind now?

Speaker 8 (01:02:39):
I want to find out too, because that has not
I can have her on Okay, I'm making a note
that will be before or after the niece of the
science apology leader.

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
I know we're not allowed to talk about it, right.

Speaker 6 (01:02:54):
Okay, No, we're not allowed to talk about SCIENTI olalicy Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Okay, my mom is afraid. Everyone's afraid. But I'm interesting, Okay,
And he wants to talk about but what that sward
that stuff, and he was just saying anything else, give
us a call.

Speaker 8 (01:03:11):
We're at night one Crime and we are true crime tonight,
and we were talking about the kayaker who faked his
death and had all his troubles.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Let us know how far have you gone?

Speaker 8 (01:03:24):
We're not talking criminal, but I don't know if you
want to share how far you've gone for love and
you went a little crazy in a non criminal way.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
We'd love to hear those stories.

Speaker 8 (01:03:33):
Too, because honestly, most of us have been on one
or both sides of that equations.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
That's the truth. Boy, Yeah, I let it rip everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
We have no judgment, that's yeah, we are not in
the judgment chairs.

Speaker 6 (01:03:47):
Although we just spent the last five minutes judging this guy.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Well, this guy's a dope.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Dope faking your own death is a little bit much,
it is.

Speaker 6 (01:03:55):
Yeah, so anything but that give us a non criminal right, criminals.

Speaker 4 (01:04:00):
A little criminal I'm curious. It's fine. I would have
like a little king of a car. Oo. I've never
done of the car. Have you ever toilet paper to
car with shaving cream?

Speaker 7 (01:04:11):
I'm an angel?

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):
Are you guys not from Long Islands?

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
You've never been never done anything car and encovereded.

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
With toilet paper?

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
What is that? I have no idea what that is?

Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
Really?

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
You just.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
I'm sure there's a statue of limitations of one hundred
and fifty years that has gone by. But yeah, and
someone did you dirty? You would basically put shaving cream
on their car and then put toilet paper over the
shaving cream.

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
Doesn't the shaving cream like to remove the paint or something, No.

Speaker 4 (01:04:38):
It just like washes off.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
I mean these weren't like fanciest cars maybe when I
was coming up, so it was kind of fair game.
And then we would attach like cans to their car
with strings oh like just married. Yeah, so when you
like drove away, you didn't realize probably that there were cans.
And it just seems it's so silly. I'm not recommending this,

(01:05:03):
and I recognize how dopey this sounds. So and I
didn't even do that for love, by the way, I
did that for somebody else's love revenge.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
Yeah, I'm a good side by, yes.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
Right, like I'm a good Alma somebody's Louise. Anyway, I digress.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
So you were gonna tell us about Little nas.

Speaker 4 (01:05:24):
This Little Nas has got me really upset. So we
all love Little Nods.

Speaker 8 (01:05:29):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
He's been a real icon in uh, you know, the
gay community, but also just in pop culture. And he's
a musician that I think was, you know, sort of
this really forward facing African American cowboy. If you remember
that song what was it with Billy Ray Cyris where
they did that duo.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
Yeah, I'll stop myself there.

Speaker 4 (01:05:55):
Yeah, go ahead, dang this.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Yes so good. So yeah, he has.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Really been sort of this guiding light for so many
has recently spent the weekend in jail, unfortunately, because if
you're familiar with California, there's this area called the Valley
Studio City specifically, and I guess in the middle of
the night, he was kind of prancing down the street
in his undies in cowboy boots.

Speaker 3 (01:06:26):
He looked good though. I saw the video. He looked
he was.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Like kind of working it down those two yellow stripes
in the middle of the road, and I guess somebody
recognized him and started recording him, and I guess cops
got involved, and at some point there it escalated allegedly,
allegedly allegedly, and you know that ended with little Nas

(01:06:50):
having to spend the weekend in court in.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
Jail, which was probably terrible for him.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
He has since been released, and uh, I think we
have to wait and see to what happens next.

Speaker 4 (01:07:02):
Tah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
Have there been any new developments today?

Speaker 18 (01:07:05):
But no new developments. The only thing I saw was
he broke his silence since being released, and he said.

Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
It was terrifying. He was terrified, but your girl is
going to be okay, So by the way, he said,
it was effing terrifying.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Yeah, he was so scared, scared, obviously there is something
bigger going on with our little nods, So we send
him love and hopefully this all settles itself very quickly.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
But by the way he.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
Tries to I was surprised to read this.

Speaker 7 (01:07:34):
He posted a seventy five thousand dollars bail and he
was released and it was in Van Nie and he
got out the same day. Thank god. He had the
money to get out right, like woo. Scary.

Speaker 6 (01:07:47):
So he was initially arrested on the missinmeanor charge. The
charges were escalated to felonies. Yeah, because apparently he was
resisting arrest. I didn't see any of this, so this
is all news to me. Oh, little nas, what are
you doing?

Speaker 4 (01:07:59):
No, he'd never.

Speaker 6 (01:08:02):
Yeah, you got to comply. You gotta like do what
they say, man like. I hope you're okay for real.

Speaker 4 (01:08:08):
Yeah, back at you. I think so too.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
And hopefully the cops have moved on and that was
de escalated, and you know we were We're.

Speaker 4 (01:08:18):
With them too.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
So yeah, that's all I got on a little naselet's
PARTI beat anybody wants to join us eight eight eight
three one crime and listen, you guys have been chattering
and bringing up a lot of stuff, so we kind

(01:08:41):
of want to keep hearing from you. Eight eight eight
three one crime. What do you think, guys? Should we
go to a talk back now?

Speaker 9 (01:08:47):
I think so, Hi, ladies, this is Molly from Pennsylvania.
I listen to you guys every morning on my drive
into work. Wednesday night episode where you're talking thinking about
maybe a manual, and I'm fuming.

Speaker 10 (01:09:04):
I am angry.

Speaker 9 (01:09:06):
I am furious that this any parent could do that
to their child. I don't know what's wrong with our society,
and I do not think people who commit crimes against
children are punished nearly harshly enough. And we also just
need to be paying more attention. There has to be

(01:09:27):
signs that a child is being abused, that someone.

Speaker 13 (01:09:30):
Is not a good parent.

Speaker 9 (01:09:32):
So that's that's where I'm out with that very fired up.
I can't even keep my thoughts straight. Thank you for
everything you guys do.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
We think, Yeah, we feel the same way, and I'm
sorry that this is getting you on the way to
work right.

Speaker 4 (01:09:45):
It's like no way to start a day. But I
think unless.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
We're all riled up together, we can figure out some
solutions or some real basic takeaways because it's maddening.

Speaker 6 (01:09:58):
The legal reality, though, is that crimes against children are
treated more severely within the US law. In most global systems,
crimes against children are treated especially serious, and often they're
punished more harshly than the same crimes against adults. So
I know it doesn't seem that way, but that's the

(01:10:19):
legal reality. The vulnerability of victims is often an aggravating
factor when considering maximum sentence guidelines and things like that.
So children are seen as like uniquely defenseless and unable
to consent or protect themselves. But here's the thing, those
are often only taken into consideration when there's a crime
against a child that isn't murder, whether you know, it's

(01:10:40):
maybe abuse or sex acts things like that. So the
legal reality is is that children are more protected than adults,
but it just doesn't.

Speaker 7 (01:10:49):
Seem that way right after death.

Speaker 4 (01:10:51):
Maybe I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
I feel like we cover so many cases where there
were red flags along the way that involve children that
went unnoticed, or even the protocol was in fact followed
and went nowhere because everybody's just checking a box and
filling out paperwork and pushing it along, and it does

(01:11:13):
take a very special teacher or a very special counselor
or a special child protective service officer who really can
see the signs and go that extra mile, because frankly,
I think the system's pretty backlogged as well. And in
this case, mom and dad were lying, lying, lying, like

(01:11:34):
why would you assume that there was a problem when
mom and dad were hiding this for a we now
know to be for at least nine or ten.

Speaker 6 (01:11:42):
Days, and when dad has a conviction under his belt
of abusing his daughter who is now permanently, you know,
relying on care for the rest of her life because
of his abuse, exactly, And ladies.

Speaker 4 (01:11:56):
And men, that is a real red flag.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
So if you're with somebody who has a record of
abusing their child prior buy or be warned when you're
you can do that having a child with somebody else.
And by way, again, no judgment, nobody has you know,
more questionable taste.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
Now, let's get it. Listen.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
Love makes you do crazy things, but you cannot look
the other way. This guy was potentially problematic and again
allegedly allegedly allegedly, we do not know with the pause.

Speaker 8 (01:12:25):
Well, his first child, that was a conviction. We do
know that as a matter of fact.

Speaker 6 (01:12:30):
Fact also it was also oh yeah right, it was
also though his his his ex as well.

Speaker 7 (01:12:37):
They were both abusing his daughter.

Speaker 8 (01:12:42):
It's grotesque, and Molly, we are thinking with you and
all of your feelings.

Speaker 4 (01:12:47):
You're fuming. It's really the only.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
Get it out, and it's your talk.

Speaker 4 (01:12:53):
But keep it coming.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Those kinds of getting those feelings out is equally as important,
So talk it here.

Speaker 6 (01:13:00):
You're not alone. Just know that you know, and that
makes me feel better. I hope it does.

Speaker 7 (01:13:03):
But you were definitely not alone in your outrage for sure,
and it's warranted.

Speaker 3 (01:13:09):
What's the next talkback?

Speaker 17 (01:13:12):
Hey, ladies, I just listened to the interview with the
district attorney for the deadly American marriage story. As I
was listening, I got very Piketown massacre by the fact
that this girl who's from Tennessee, the South, is trying
to get custody of these kids. There's murder and also

(01:13:37):
how did the first wife die?

Speaker 13 (01:13:39):
You guys know, was that revealed?

Speaker 17 (01:13:42):
Because I think you said this was his nanny, so
I didn't know if there was any suspicion to his
wife dying and like him running off with the nanny.
Or if it was like a kosher kind of real
life thing, you know, sad thing.

Speaker 3 (01:13:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:13:59):
So in the documentary we learn that his first wife
in Ireland died from an asthma. Remember, like, she had
bad asthma and she wasn't recovering. I don't remember all
the details, but that's what I remember.

Speaker 8 (01:14:14):
Yeah, And when when the incident that caused her to
ultimately die, her sister was present, right, I'm pretty sure
all these facts are correct. That's her sister was present.
They went to the hospital. It was sort of a
systemic thing for her, you know. However, it was brought
up later the defense. The defense brought it up with

(01:14:36):
the question mark but no one. I guess it depends
on who you believe, defense or prosecution. But everyone who
was in his life thought there was everything was above born.

Speaker 6 (01:14:46):
And even that wife, even the first wife's parents. They
framed it like the dad was sus of the husband,
but turns out that he wasn't. And right before he died,
he actually signed a declaration that he wasn't suss of him, right.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
Remember that that's right? Yes, I do.

Speaker 8 (01:15:03):
That just seemed like they I mean, as they explained it,
it was literally a misunderstanding of language between him.

Speaker 6 (01:15:11):
You're listening to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Buddy
Movin and I'm here with Stephanie Lydecker and Courtney I'm Strong,
and we're right in the middle of some talkback roulette Adam.

Speaker 19 (01:15:20):
Next, Hi, ladies, this is how they're in North Carolina.
I was listening to talk back Tuesday and specifically the
question about why P Diddy wasn't charged with simple assault.
My understanding is that the statute of limitation for domestic
violence or assault under state law, that statute had already run.

(01:15:44):
That's why Ditty's attorneys felt pretty comfortable just being candid
and admitting that he had committed domestic violence. And I'm
a lawyer, but I don't do criminal law. I don't
think that assault is usually a federal charge, so I
think that should had sailed. Unfortunately, that is hopefully what
they were left with.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
That's great insight.

Speaker 8 (01:16:05):
Yeah, and it is it is only sexual assault or
excuse me, assault is only a federal crime if it
happens on federal ground.

Speaker 4 (01:16:14):
I had recently looked into this.

Speaker 3 (01:16:16):
That's really good. So I didn't know that.

Speaker 7 (01:16:17):
I didn't know that there was a statute of limitations
on the.

Speaker 8 (01:16:20):
Cell and that I did not know either, so that
that is news and that varies, right, So those types
of statutes am I mistaken with this?

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
For example, you know an assault charge having a statue
of limitations that does very like area area right, state
to state. Yeah, none of us are lawyers.

Speaker 8 (01:16:45):
No, it seems asary check, which we should have an
expert come in. But it seems like the statute of
limitations depending upon whether it's misdemeanor, whether it's felony, what
the circumstances are. But generally it's one to six years,
which that sounds so short to me.

Speaker 7 (01:17:05):
It does.

Speaker 6 (01:17:06):
It sounds even listen, even one day in prison or jail,
I'm like done, Like I can't, I can't even imagine,
so like it seems like a short amount of time.
But like for people like me and probably you guys
do right, like one day in jail and like, oh
my god, I'm gonna freak out, So it's hard to imagine.

Speaker 3 (01:17:25):
It does look like I'm looking it up.

Speaker 18 (01:17:27):
It does look like each state sets its own statute
of limitations for both civil and criminal cases. But we
might have Jared come on and join us and break
that down, because.

Speaker 3 (01:17:36):
That'd be great.

Speaker 18 (01:17:37):
I'd love to dig into that more.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
Love Jareded.

Speaker 7 (01:17:39):
I miss him.

Speaker 3 (01:17:40):
Everyone loves Jareded.

Speaker 8 (01:17:41):
My girlfriend from high school, who is an attorney, specifically
texted me it's just a great legal expert.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
Well he is.

Speaker 8 (01:17:50):
Yeah, Jared's singing your phrases.

Speaker 18 (01:17:54):
Unders add that we have. We seem to have the
brightest audience, like our listeners are from lawyers across the doctors.
We've had every everyone across the void.

Speaker 7 (01:18:03):
So we love it.

Speaker 18 (01:18:04):
But anyway, go back to those talkbacks.

Speaker 3 (01:18:07):
Yeah, hit us up.

Speaker 16 (01:18:10):
Adam, Hey, guys, this is Ken Adams from New York.
Building the timeline for b case time in that house.
Did police take into account him pausing or stopping and
observing what he did?

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
Right?

Speaker 17 (01:18:24):
So?

Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
Well said, really good.

Speaker 6 (01:18:25):
So reading those documents, they said that he could have
done it in little He was in that house for
an estimated thirteen minutes. And reading those documents and the
testing they did, I don't know that they took into
account any of that. I don't even know if they
think that right, that's just our amateur, you know, analysis
of the crime scene photos. But in doing their testing,

(01:18:48):
they did it in as little as ninety seconds. So
him standing for you know, thirty seconds to a minute
in front of the door from Inxana's door is entirely
within the margin of error.

Speaker 7 (01:19:00):
So, yeah, that was what a good question.

Speaker 6 (01:19:02):
Man, I'm telling you, our audiot, our audience is so smart.
But again, yeah, I'm sure I'm sure that they didn't
account for that. From reading the reports, it seemed like
they they went in, they counted how many wounds each
victim had and kind of simulated the attacks, and again,

(01:19:25):
ninety seconds, that's all it took. Wow, he was in
there for thirteen so you had plenty of time to
stand there.

Speaker 8 (01:19:31):
Right, Although, buddy, the one thing, because you did say,
and it was, would you say, I don't know something?
That about the blood drops Joseph Scott Morgan's so less
than just here. Yeah, so less than just our sort
of amateur pontification. Joseph was here, and because of the
blood spatter that came directly down, that meant that.

Speaker 6 (01:19:54):
In a perfect circle that's right right in front of
Xana's door, right that it's.

Speaker 3 (01:20:00):
Not moving for at least however many.

Speaker 6 (01:20:02):
Seconds that will take maybe fifteen let's say, let's say
fifteen seconds, maybe maybe thirty even, and I think he
was probably if he was standing there, if our analysis
is correct. And again this is you know, allegedly he
was standing there. Maybe he was waiting for quiet, right
like he can hear Dylan. Maybe maybe Murphy's barking, you know,

(01:20:26):
and he's just kind of like, you know, getting baring,
getting one moment. Possibly possibly again, don't know for sure.
But what a great talk back. I love those kinds
of questions. I don't know, I'm guessing. Yes, what a
great voice again, I know he listen.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
You cannot also just say we do have the greatest voices.

Speaker 3 (01:20:46):
I know, I know.

Speaker 4 (01:20:47):
I mean, you can't make it up.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
We have such great voices here on the show. So yeah,
keep those keep those voices coming everyone. What a night
it has been. Again, big shout out to license mackge
and family therapist Jessica Kaplan for cruising with us tonight
and giving us some scoop. We'll post those details also
that she mentioned on our website as well, so in

(01:21:11):
case you miss anything, no sweat And again, if you
miss any of the show, you can also catch it
right after as a podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:21:18):
Let's go straight toward talk back.

Speaker 12 (01:21:21):
I loved the Martha Stewart documentary. My mom and I
always kind of made fun of her because she was
always so proper and everything was always well perfect and
not real life. And it showed us that she wasn't
perfect and she owns up to that, and I just
I really enjoyed it. But she also stayed true to

(01:21:43):
herself and she's still so upity.

Speaker 3 (01:21:46):
Uh love her good attitude.

Speaker 8 (01:21:47):
I do.

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
I thought it was great.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
Again, I'm not pushing docs, and this is not really
a crime doc.

Speaker 3 (01:21:53):
Although she was arrested. She's a felon, right, she's a felain.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
I don't know, she's totally really like, kind of ripped
my heart out when I watched her doc. I really
became a fan after watching it, and exactly great talk
back because I had the same reaction I always had,
sort of her in a category of kind of this
perceived perfection that is really unattainable and therefore let's not

(01:22:18):
bother trying. So I never paid that close attention to her,
but I kind of liked the doc. It made her
really real and authentic and yeah, she's you know, she's
had a few bumps along the.

Speaker 3 (01:22:30):
Way and lived to tell the tale.

Speaker 8 (01:22:33):
Yeah, I also became a much bigger fan of her.
I was not a big fan of the doc though,
because I felt that they in her long and lengthy
career in life, they spent such a long time on
when she was arrested and went to prison.

Speaker 4 (01:22:51):
I don't know that was really I didn't think so.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
I thought they kind of She thought there was some
complaints from her initially when the doc came up that
they were talking a little bit too much about, you know, her.

Speaker 4 (01:23:02):
Marriages or marriage or heartbreak.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
But like, isn't that what makes us all tick a
little bit? So I actually thought it was pretty balanced
but interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:23:12):
Listen.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
I thought her in jail and in prison was also
pretty harrowing and interesting in look, she did, the crime,
she did the time.

Speaker 14 (01:23:21):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 8 (01:23:22):
Well have you guys heard what she recently Miss Martha
took to Instagram?

Speaker 2 (01:23:27):
No, oh my gosh, wait, are you giving us Instagram
on the right now? I used to be a first
it Well, I got it from Betty, I got it
from my mom. Okay, I was gonna say, that does
not sound like not for me is like not on
social media whatsoever for the most part. So it's appropriate
that your mom is keeping you in life.

Speaker 17 (01:23:46):
That's right.

Speaker 8 (01:23:48):
So obviously we know that Taylor Swift and Travis Kelcey
are engaged. So Martha went to Instagram and said, it's
time to call on the ultimate wedding planner.

Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
I can, do you imagine?

Speaker 11 (01:24:00):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:24:01):
Yes, yes, she's offering to plan the wedding.

Speaker 2 (01:24:05):
No way, Okay, that would be riotously spectacular, so epic, right, yes?

Speaker 3 (01:24:11):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:24:11):
And by the way, Martha was a perfectionist. I bet
you tell her. Swift is a perfectionist too, she is.

Speaker 6 (01:24:17):
Did you listen to Did you guys listen to the
podcast she was on Travis?

Speaker 7 (01:24:21):
Yeah, it was so good.

Speaker 6 (01:24:22):
She was talking about how she's like obsessed with sour
dough bread and all that. I just thought it was
so cute and listen, I'm not like a I'm not
a swiftye. I do like Taylor Swift, but I just
I'm so happy for her and him.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
Why are you not a swifty Let's get on board
and there's so few things to love in this life.

Speaker 4 (01:24:38):
Let's just get on board with Taylor Swift.

Speaker 3 (01:24:40):
It's okay. I am on board.

Speaker 7 (01:24:41):
I'm one hundred percent on board.

Speaker 6 (01:24:42):
I'm just not crazy, Like I'm not crazy swifty she
loves those cats.

Speaker 3 (01:24:46):
I'm not like zooming in on clues.

Speaker 6 (01:24:49):
My yea friends Stephanie and Ashley, they like zoom in
on her pictures and they like look for clues to
like release dates.

Speaker 3 (01:24:56):
Of the Easterage. Yeah, I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
I'm meant to it. I don't have the time to
will we go that deep? But I like the I
like the thoughtfulness of it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:03):
I do too, if you had more time.

Speaker 8 (01:25:05):
Yeah, here's to love everybody, wishing it to all of you.

Speaker 3 (01:25:12):
The night is over.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
It's impossible to imagine. Listen, everybody, we're going to be
back on Monday night. No Sunday night, rather Sunday night.
Here Sunday so Labor Day weekend, kids, We're here. True
crime tonight, true crime all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:25:25):
Day Fann