Epstein Files Unlocked, New Twists in LISK, and Major Moves in the Luigi Mangione Trial

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Tuesday, December ninth, everybody, and
we have a stacked night of headlines. So here it is,
it's coming and it's happening. Everybody, listen up. The federal
judges have officially ordered the Epstcene and Gilane Maxwell grand
jury records to be released sometime in the next ten days.

(00:43):
So that is a very big deal and we did
not think that would happen. Also, accused CEO killer Luigi
Mangioni is back in court for his pre trial and
we saw the most stunning body cam footage today, So
more on that to come. And also it's we two
still happening, the trial of accused wife killer Brian Walsh,

(01:04):
and now there's DNA to discuss. Lots of drama surrounding that,
plus a new twist in the Long Island serial killer case,
and it's not what any of us have expected. So
we haven't talked about that one for a while. But
long Island here we come. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of
course with Courtney Armstrong and body move in on what
I hope has been a beautiful Tuesday for all of you.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
Absolutely nothing but nothing. You have the best, Okay, good,
I'm happy to hear it. Taha, Sam and Adam also
with us of course in the studio, and of course
we want to hear from you if you want to
jump in live eight eight eight three one crime, or
you can always leave us a talk back on the
iHeartRadio app it's free, or you can always hit us
up in our socials.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Courtney, where should.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
We begin, Well, let's begin at the beginning, because, as
you said, it's here. A federal judge in New York
ordered the unseiling of extensive grand jury materials and investigative records.
And this is from the Gelaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein
sex trafficking cases. This of course has been enabled by

(02:15):
the new Epstein Files Transparency Act, which was hard fought
and hard won.

Speaker 5 (02:20):
So catching anyone up.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
Jeffrey Epstein was a financier accused of operating a really
large scale sex trafficking operation underage girls were involved. He
was arrested in twenty nineteen and allegedly died of suicide
and custody shortly thereafter, and his long time associate, Gilleen Maxwell,

(02:43):
was convicted in twenty twenty one of recruiting and grooming
the miners for sex offender Jeffrey Epstein to abuse quite
a pair. Gelaine Maxwell, of course, is currently serving a
twenty year federal prison sentence for these crimes, though she
is doing it comfortably as her prison has been downgraded

(03:04):
to something cozier. So Judge Paul Engelbayer approved the Justice
Department's request to unseal what's being referred to as a
large set of grand jury transcripts as well as discovery
documents and investigative materials from sex offender.

Speaker 5 (03:21):
Gelien Maxwell's case. So it gets interesting.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
The judge noted that the material does not identify any
additional individuals who had sexual contact with minors, nor does
it reveal new clients or unknown criminal methods. And he's
quoted as saying or as writing, I should say, contrary
to DOJ's depiction, the grand jury materials would not reveal

(03:48):
new information of any consequence.

Speaker 5 (03:51):
So I'll pause there, what do you guys, I have
to think.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, it's so confusing. So just in case anyone's not
aware of what a grand jury trial is, it's a
quiet trial. We see it happening in real time. We're
seeing a grand jury trial happening in the David case,
for example. It's not in front of a juror. It's
typically very sealed. It's secretive. I've actually been on a
grand jury and it's very They like bring you in

(04:15):
the back door, and it's it's kind of secretive, quite frankly.
And one of the best parts of our constitution is
that that typically remains sealed no matter what. And as
we've all heard, there have been many calls for these
records to be unsealed based on new developments, and this
has been happening for over a year now, and it's

(04:36):
always gotten shot down for you know, for many reasons
that you can point to. So on the one hand,
it's pretty monumental that they're unsealing these documents, particularly because
Gilaine Maxwell herself, or according to her attorney last week,
did not want that to happen because she feared it
would be a problem if she went for an appeal.

(04:57):
To get a fair jury of right, so there has
to be something that they were fearful of being revealed. However,
according to the judge, he's saying, it's nothing really that consequential.
So consequential meaning something that would require a consequence.

Speaker 5 (05:15):
So I'm a little perplexed by it.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
On the one hand, yes, let's get some transparency, go
and keep it coming transactions. Obviously, Gieley Maxwell wasn't convicted
for twenty years in a federal prisons based on nothing.
So let's just see what those you know, those details are.

Speaker 4 (05:32):
M hmm, yeah, And it will be interesting because the
DOJ does reserve the right to redact. Really, it sounds
a little bit at their will. They of course will
redact the victim's names, but also anything that involves an
ongoing investigation, which may or may not include the investigation

(05:53):
that was opened into former President Bill Clinton.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
Right, that was a big piece of that puzzle. Right,
So everyone was saying or speculating, oh, this is fishy
because suddenly now they're opening an investigation into Bill Clinton,
and in doing so, that's going to prevent or block
some of these files to be released. Oh wait, Gilain Maxwell,
we heard from her attorney was going to also file
for an appeal. And if that's the case, oh wait,

(06:19):
suddenly her files can't be released because that could interrupt
her appeal. So it seemed as though there were some
strategy happening around the edges, and perhaps there still is,
but on its nose. If we're just going to take
it on its nose and for what it is a
kind of a victory, right, I would suggest there's going
to be some interactions or emails or something that would

(06:40):
suggest convictions. We know that Epstein was in fact convicted
in you know, two thousand and seven, two thousand and
eight in West Palm Beach twenty nineteen. Obviously there was
a grand jury trial prior to his death, but we
just didn't know what was in it.

Speaker 5 (06:54):
So this body has her hand up God, because like
this is kind of confusing. So the grand jury is
the indictment of Gillane Maxwell. Right, it's not the files
that are being released, it's not what people you know,
there's no list in these in this grand jury indictment.
But she had a trial, right, Yes, so that is correct,

(07:16):
and that information is public? Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (07:19):
It doesn't seem to be a lot of public a
lot of things around dealing as well, which has been
probably a bit of the rub. So, you know, on
the one hand, we want to have as much information
as possible, including it in any you know, financial implications,
any transfers of money, bank records, correspondents, emails, anything surrounding

(07:39):
the case. There's not just like a weird set of
files air quote. I think we're using the words files
as an umbrella statements, an.

Speaker 5 (07:46):
Umbrella statement, right everything the judge. The judge said, I
want to repeat what the judge said, Contrary to the
DOJ's depiction, the grand jury materials would not reveal new
information of any consequence. And I think the reason and
he's saying that is yeah, because we had a trial,
and the trials are public, well they should be. It's

(08:07):
a federal court. Anybody can walk in and watch it.
So there's not really going to be any new information
because all the information that got her indicted was presented
in court at the trial.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
I'm curious that's why we don't know about the contents
of the actual trial itself.

Speaker 5 (08:20):
Well, and that's see, that's the rub for me. What
I would like to know is where's the information from
her conviction not her indictment, her conviction, and was.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
There any kind of motivating incident that actually called for
these grand jury filings or you know, findings I should say,
to be released. You know, was there something that happened
today or last week that made this suddenly a thing
or are we just getting piecemeiled pieces of information to
keep us say sheated.

Speaker 5 (08:50):
Well, I think this just.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
All falls under the umbrella of having the Epstein Files
Transparency Act that this you know, as you mentioned earlier,
it was completely closed and it was a hard pass
on releasing anything, and so this is now under that umbrella,
and the DOJ says they do plan to release eighteen

(09:11):
types of investigative material, so it'll be some search warrants,
financial records, the notes from interviews with victims, and data
from electronic devices. So it seems like there should be
something in there. Listen, if you're just joining us, we
are talking about some new information that is being opened
up regarding Gilaine Maxwell and her participation with sex trafficking

(09:35):
along with Jeffrey Ebstein. If you went a weigh in
eight at eight to three one crime the judge Judge Engelmeyer.
He also received letters from lawyers from two different men,
so one who could have been a witness at sex
offender Gleaene Maxwell's trild but was not called, and another
whose name appeared in civil court files against Gilaene Maxwell

(10:00):
but had previously been successfully redacted. And the lawyers of
these men implicated in the files argued that the Epstein
Transparency Act does not specifically mention grand jury materials, and
so the DOJ's request to unseal them should be denied.
If not, they said their client's name should at least
be redacted or kept under seal.

Speaker 5 (10:21):
Interesting. Yeah, because usually grand jury, like you said stuff, right,
they're usually very secretive. They're usually not something that you get. Yeah,
it's very it's a vacred, sacred, you know, institution in
the country, grand jury. So you know, the Transparency Act
doesn't mention grand jury materials. It's interesting that they're releasing them.
I would like them to release the trial transcripts, not

(10:42):
the grand jury indictment.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Bring it all.

Speaker 5 (10:44):
What do I would say?

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, more and more and more, and we want.

Speaker 5 (10:47):
The being more yeah yeah, yeah, And I feel like
maybe most people would just be satiated by the grand
jury records, but that's not the totality of what got
her convicted, that just got her indicted. We want the
totality right, So true. Yeah, so I think it's I
think the pressure needs to the foot on the pedal
needs to remain, is what I'm trying.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
To say here here, sister, I couldn't agree with you more.
And even going backward, you know, we had some of
those those photos that were released last week, and again
they're still stuck in my head, and I was finding
them troubling. The mess of equipment with the dentist's chair
and the medical equipment and those masks.

Speaker 5 (11:25):
Yeah, what was that about those masks? I tried?

Speaker 4 (11:31):
I was channeling body and was I was like, where
are these masks from? Is it from you know, some
old Latin culture? It seems so masonic to me, Like
I'm like, I'm like, what was the implication? I feel
like there's symbolism in there that I am not getting.
And I've asked some some of my friends who are
like history buffs and stuff like that, so they mean something.

Speaker 5 (11:53):
They're so odd and specific. Yeah, it's like from one
specific artist or something.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
They all have a very simil we wi't they remind
you a bit of that movie Eyes White or those
masks they don't remember. That's the Stanley Kubrick am I
saying that correctly, you are Stanley Kubrick film that you know,
Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman were infamously in. And it
has been reported that the ending was changed in the

(12:20):
eleventh hour because somehow, I'm afraid to use the word
Illuminati was somehow being referenced in it, and that it
was more real than we knew.

Speaker 5 (12:32):
By the way, when I watched that movie for.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
The first time, I didn't even totally understand it, So
it's number one. Then I watched it again and was like, oh,
this is a good scary movie and definitely worth the watch.
But apparently there's some crossover between what we're seeing in
epstein Land and Eyes White Shot. That's the chatter, the.

Speaker 6 (12:50):
Scuttle the scuttle butt. Is that the the scuttle butt, Yes,
that has been the scuttle butt before that there's this
thing large jurse secret society at play, and there have
been reports that again these are reports. We're getting a
little off the off.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
The like fact train right now, but if you want
to just go with us for a second, some of
the trans you know, some of the chatter online has
been that Epstein himself was you know, he was a
big thinker. He was a mathematician, and he was obsessed
with this idea of transhumanism and extending his life. So
they were very often having talks at this island with

(13:31):
big world thinkers, probably tech people, about longevity and predictive
thinking and all kinds of crazy things that we've seen
in the movies. And ultimately the theory being that there
was like some super secret society that was happening and
gathering on Epstein Island, and these young girls in the

(13:51):
trafficking of it all was keeping that business alive.

Speaker 5 (13:56):
Just to switch real quick, I hope that releasing the
jant trans or the grand jury materials isn't going to
give Gilaine any excuse, you know, like I can't even
appeal now because you know, my indictment materials have been
released and get some sort of sympathy from constitutionalists.

Speaker 4 (14:15):
Well that's that has been laid her attorney. So you know,
right now Maxwell's attorneys have said she has no position
on the unseiling, But previously they did exactly. They laid
out that argument and said that releasing the records could
harm a future habeas position petition that she plans to file.

(14:39):
And the habeas petition is a legal request by someone
in custody and is asking in the court to say, hey,
take another look and see am I really being imprisoned
lawfully or not?

Speaker 5 (14:51):
So you're kind of both sides of the coin.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
And remember there's nothing fun for Acosta, as we've talked
about back from two thousand and seven, two and eight.
Nobody wants that information out either, So the push and
pull is real right now.

Speaker 5 (15:05):
Listen, stick around.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
We have another judge who makes a stunning move in
the Epstein saga, unlocking other transcripts that were never meant
that and more True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong body move in and of course we have
producer Taha jumping in as well. So all these things
Gilane and Epstein are heating up. So again a little confusing.
What's the counter at nine days? Is that what we want?

Speaker 5 (15:49):
It's the ninth and today and the nineteenth day.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Now, hopefully this isn't just like a soft launch to
throw everybody a bone so that people feel like, oh,
there's stuff happening, and this is not the full release
of all the bank transactions, et cetera. But who knows.
I mean, I'll say, I'll just keep saying better than nothing,
better than nothing, keep it coming, keep it coming. I

(16:14):
do sense though, that there is sort of this build happening,
and nobody's really forgetting that there's a deadline.

Speaker 4 (16:23):
Absolutely no. People are absolutely talking about it. And again,
think of what a big deal that all of the
Republicans who did shift, they shifted because they're constituents the
people who voted them into power.

Speaker 5 (16:36):
So literally, the American people are.

Speaker 4 (16:38):
Like I call ps part pass and it just you know,
there is that pressure and listen, politicians want nothing more
than to be and stay elected.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, and if in fact it seems like ooh, people
may get hurt. You know, I've heard that quote before
being said, perhaps even from President Trump himself, What is
that even mean?

Speaker 5 (17:02):
Don't get what did you say during the break trumped? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (17:06):
I guess yeah, in that regard, but yeah, like, is
it in fact dangerous? And if so, why so dangerous?
Why are these dangerous things in these files that nobody
can see. On the one hand, the judge is saying, oh,
it's nothing consequential, and then the other all of the
resistance would imply that there is something to resist, and

(17:28):
I guess we all just want to know what.

Speaker 5 (17:30):
So, just to clear things up in my head, I
had in my head it's December eighteenth, but it's December nineteenth.
The deadline, right, ten, we're counter day ten. To make
sure we do it every day. Sleep ten sleeps, Okay,
want to make sure sleep.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
That's great, Courtney, ten sleeps until the Epstein files are released.
What is everybody wishing for for Christmas? Ask me for
the Epstein files.

Speaker 5 (17:57):
That's right, and Steph's going to be sitting on her
living room with papers all around here.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
I know, yes, yes, that is my Christmas wish on
behalf of all victims anywhere and everywhere.

Speaker 5 (18:10):
So I'll wait for somebody to make a searchable database.
I'll help with that. Okay, there we go in court.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
You said there was another judge with an update as well.

Speaker 5 (18:18):
There sure is.

Speaker 4 (18:19):
So this is a federal judge in Florida who has
agreed to the Trump administration's request to release grand jury
transcripts from the first investigation into Jeffrey Epstein in the
mid two thousands.

Speaker 5 (18:33):
Again, Epstein was a wealthy financier.

Speaker 4 (18:37):
He was investigated over a really long time for sexually
exploiting and trafficking underage girls. Also for a very long time,
and he did this with the help of his longtime
associate and fellow convicted sex offender, Geelaane Maxwell. So, okay,
this happened a couple of days ago. US District Judge

(19:01):
Rodney Smith, he was appointed by President Trump, and said
that the new Epstein Transparent Yet Transparency Act overrides the
usual federal rule that keeps grand jury material secret.

Speaker 5 (19:16):
So that relates back to the previous issue too. That's
exactly right.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
So this, you know, I had inadvertently punned it and said,
you know, this trumps the usual federal rule.

Speaker 5 (19:28):
This new law rights but a competition of a habeas
corpus release. So's going to be an issue anyway.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
And let's remember the significance of that particular trial. So again,
two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, we're in
West Palm Beach. Jeffrey Epstein, the financier, is brought up
on charges allegedly there were many women on this list
in many victims, although ultimately he was only charged with
sexually assaulting one of them. I believe she was sixteen
years old. He pled guilty in an ex change for

(20:00):
that guilty plea got a real sweet deal and a
deal I can't even call it a deal. It's egregious.

Speaker 5 (20:07):
It was what happens, and just be just so people know,
he got to basically go home, right. He would be
at prison to sleep, right, and then he would wake
up in the morning and like go home.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yep, and he would go to and then he would
go back about his day to.

Speaker 5 (20:22):
Sleep, okay. Right, it was you could go to the
office and let's not forget that non prosecutorial uh you know,
to his conspirators.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Right.

Speaker 5 (20:31):
So he got the sweetheart deal where I'll plead guilty,
but you can't go after any of my.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Friends, right, And that's what in this exactly, Okay, So
that gets you know, that was the alex Acosta piece
of this story. We heard about this originally from Lisa Bryant,
the director of Filthy Rich, the documentary on Netflix about
both Elaine Maxwell and Epstein. So she brought to our
attention at the time alex Acosta, who was then he

(20:59):
was the what was he Florida? Yeah, exactly, And somehow
this cakewalk deal gets out to this, you know, successful
white man who gets to go to jail part time
and check out at night even though he's a sex offender,
and that's when he has to register as a sex offender.
That becomes a big deal because a we all have

(21:22):
been curious, you know, via alex Acosta, why did he
get that deal in the first place, who arranged for that?
And number two, what happened to the other victims on
that very large list that we know was in existence
allegedly allegedly allegedly And why that little sweetheart deal about
not being able to convict any of his co conspirators.

(21:44):
Now fast forward decades later, here we are now today,
real time. Gile Maxwell is like, oh, yeah, by the way,
I shouldn't even be here in the first place. You
guys weren't even allowed to bring up charges in the
first place, because remember that deal, but alex Acosta made
back in two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight,
I should not have been charged in the first place.

(22:05):
Go ahead, body, you have a question, Okay, so I
just want to lay let's set the table. Yes, okay,
let's set the table. Set this table, because I have questions.

Speaker 5 (22:13):
Okay, I really kind of started learning about Epstein through you, okay,
because I didn't really follow the Epstein stuff, but you
got me kind of looked. Okay, just being real. Welcome,
Welcome to the rabbit hole, right, Okay, Well, okay, so
this grand jury situation, they're releasing the grand jury transcripts
from Florida from the two thousands. What about the grand

(22:37):
jury transcripts that got him in the jail where he
quote unquote killed himself?

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Correct?

Speaker 5 (22:42):
What about the new ones?

Speaker 2 (22:43):
What was the what were in the documents for what
would have been the upcoming trial had he lived, had
he not air quotes taken his own life? Allegedly, there
was a grand jury that got him arrested, right, that's
what we're saying, and indicted, right, Where are those files
and that information, because obviously he was brought into custody

(23:04):
and was waiting for trial under very difficult circumstances, and
as the story goes, he took his own life.

Speaker 5 (23:10):
Do we know if he was in do we know
if he was indicted back then, or was he just
arrested at that point?

Speaker 2 (23:17):
I believe he was standing trial, so he had to
have been indicted.

Speaker 5 (23:20):
Yeah, okay, well you know what, let maybe we can.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Just find out. Let's get in there, get it. Welcome
to the rabbit hole. Let's get let's do it. Let's
do that. Let's get in there together. Yes, I don't know,
because it's an interesting play along.

Speaker 5 (23:31):
You know, it's all these ancillary players.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
And I'm just going to throw out there in case
any of our listeners have any more like inside scoop
on it. But for example, we've mentioned this before, and
it's again we're in the rabbit hole. Robert Barr was
the one who was overseeing the autopsy of Jeffrey Epstein

(23:53):
when he took his own life. Okay, now, remember that
was a little controversial. We've heard from many forensics experts.
Are As included that there's no way that that was
not a homicide, and that you know, there was a
missing minutes from the tape, and then Pam Bondy was saying, oh,
that's what always happens. There's always this missing minute, and
then we find out that's not entirely true at all.

(24:17):
Then it was actually three minutes. And remember the guards
were sleeping like a lot of things had to go
wrong that night for that story to hold up, so
that now we have Bill Barr in the mix here,
I think I said Robert Barr Bill Barr. And remember
Bill Barr had a father who, decades ago, was the
first person who hired Epstein at the Dalton School in

(24:38):
New York City for the teaching job that he was
not qualified for because he didn't even graduate college. And
we've always wondered, like, what is the connective tissue between
all of these players. I don't know the answer, but
it seems like there's a lot of crossover from different
different policymakers and definitely different whether it was a Democratic

(25:03):
house or a Republican house. Some of the main players
have remained.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
Alex Acosta included, right, I mean, it's wealth. You're asking
the connection. It's it's wealth, it's power, it's scratched my back.
I'll go ahead and scratch your back. I'll give your
son entry into this college. You manage my money, get
me three percent more than I really should be getting.

Speaker 5 (25:26):
It's all of the above, is my And just to
answer my own question, Jeffrey Epstein was indicted by a
federal grand jury in July twenty nineteen, So I want
those transcripts and at where those are the transcripts that
were going to be getting right now. We're the ones
from Florida into in two thousand and seven or nine.

Speaker 7 (25:44):
Those rights the ones that he was not federally indicted
in the mid two thousands, So those are the ones
that we're wanting to see.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
This is from the first which is what this federal judge,
this Florida stuff. That's right exactly, but we'll see, you
know what could be in there. The judge granted the
DOJ's fast tracked request to unseal the transcripts and modify
the protective order that it was under, and Judge Smith

(26:17):
also proved the request to change any protective orders that
would block the public from seeing these records. So it
was a multi layer thing that had to be done.
And Judge Smith is one of three federal judges that
the dj has asked to unseal materials involving Epstein and Maxwell.
One of three, okay, correct, Judge Rounney Smith was the

(26:40):
first one to rule, and now a second ruling involving
the Maxwell files has also been granted today, which we
obviously spoke about earlier, and this is actually the DOJ's
second attempt to get these grand jury materials unsealed. Previously,
they were denied because they were made before Congress passed
the Ebstein Transparency Act, So that really was kind of

(27:02):
it was a monumental game changer. Now, Judge Smith's order
doesn't say anything about redacting the documents to protect the
privacy of survivors of Epstein. Orgelene Maxwell, I'm not sure
why that wasn't specifically called out. However, the DOJ maintains

(27:25):
responsibility for those reactions, and officials have said they of
course will do so before making records public.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
You know, it's been a ridiculous show of nonsense. So,
I mean this whole year, honestly, from the day this
show started, we have been yapping about this, right, So
this has been going on for months and months and
months and months and months, right Honestly, it's let's just
walk down memory lane. Here's Pam Bondy with all the
files on her desk. How about the photo op when

(27:55):
they're all holding like the binders and binders of information.
Where are all the tapes that were being dragged out
of the Epstein Island mansion and estate, because allegedly there
were cameras everywhere, in videotapes everywhere, in the theory being
that he was being he was honey potting policy leaders

(28:15):
and world leaders by bringing them and luring them to
this island, putting them in compromising positions, and then using
that video as blackmail. And that's very important because that
blackmail could be seen as policy that's affecting the entire world,
us included. And the larger fear is that this level
of trafficking is happening still real time, largest business in

(28:36):
the world financially speaking. How do we put an end
to it if we don't even know what it is?
So please, please, please release the files. Everybody can agree
on that we don't want to have pedophilia running the show,
of course, and everybody knows that the victims are begging
for answers. We've all seen them on Capitol Hill. We've
even had one here ourselves. Come on, so we're getting,

(28:56):
you know, spoon fed a little bit. But again we'll
take the spoon feeding.

Speaker 5 (29:00):
Little by little. That's great.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Just toss us some more bank statements and where all
the Deutsche Bank statements and.

Speaker 5 (29:07):
YadA YadA, YadA.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
Well, I think you mentioned, you know, the taping of
people and potential blackmail. So what stood out to me
is one of the things that the Department of Justice
can and is allowed to withhold is, you know, victims' identities.
If we've said a million times or to invade someone's privacy, now,

(29:32):
it could easily be stipulated that some grown man who
is having completely illegal and inappropriate relations with some girl
who has been trafficked to him, that could be an
invasion of privacy. So let's go ahead and hold that back.
That's and I want to be so wrong, but that's

(29:55):
the rub, right, that's the rub. I mean, they it's
pretty broad with the dj can Redact, and it'll honestly
be be up to them what information does come out?

Speaker 2 (30:07):
How about that Marjorie Taylor, though she's not taking no
for an answer. Suddenly Marjorie Taylor is like the files,
the files, this is her last leg to stand on.
I feel like she's going to go down in a
fight right now, because this is why she's ultimately leaving, right,
But she's only there for like a couple more weeks though, Yeah, again,
we have ten days. Let's get the clock going like,

(30:28):
what's happening behind the scenes, right, who's calling the shots
behind the scenes? Are people panicking or is this just
getting you know.

Speaker 5 (30:36):
I pretend in a way in my mind's eye, people
are panicking, you know what I mean? Even people, even
innocent people who might have had like a business relationship
with Jeffrey. I've seen, you know, emails back and forth
about their actual finances are probably panicking. That's how I imagine it.
At least.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Let's go quickly to a.

Speaker 8 (30:54):
Talking Hi, everybody, this is Deanna from Georgia.

Speaker 5 (30:57):
Again.

Speaker 8 (30:58):
I'm catching up on podcast and heard you talking about
Matthew Perry. I just have to give a shout out
to the audiobook his autobiography. He narrated it not long
before he passed away, and it is amazing. So if
you haven't listened to it, you should try it out.

Speaker 5 (31:18):
What a great reprevation.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
I love Matthew Perry and I missed him.

Speaker 4 (31:22):
That's a good call. I think I was lucky enough
to have his voice. I mean, I think we all
have his voice in our collective heads because be exactly. Yeah,
and so I read them. I was very excited. I
got it for Christmas. Whenever it came out and I
was actually poking around through it again. But I read

(31:42):
it very quickly over Christmas vacation, and it is.

Speaker 5 (31:47):
It's excellent. It's touching.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
It's a real look into addiction, but also a fun read.
I mean, it's kind of it's all things. I'd recommend
it nice. But the audio, yeah, always.

Speaker 7 (32:03):
Probably would be really touching and I might get choked up, say,
listened to it, but that's a great idea.

Speaker 5 (32:08):
Yeah, thank you, Dana.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Mm hmmm, Luigi, what happened today? Did you guys see
the body cam video? I did slow mow upside down.

Speaker 5 (32:19):
I had forgotten, you know, I had forgotten that he
was wearing that mask initially. And you know what's weird,
you guys, like, can I just go go off subject
like a little tangent for a second. You Okay, he's
wearing this mask and he's got the hoodie on right
as the cops approach him in this video, right, And

(32:39):
just like the day or two prior was the release
of one you know some you know, like when he
was on the run, they were releasing photos that they
had found of him. The day prior, they had released
the photo of him in the cab wearing the mask,
and it's like this really clear picture, right, he had
to know that this picture was out there, and then

(33:01):
he's wearing a mask in the same outfits. What was
he thinking? Yeah, by the way, if you did, you
want to get arrested.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
He wanted to get arrested. And by the way, I
find that so interesting because it makes me think of
something that I was yapping about in my head today
as well. Right now we're watching Luigi try to get off, right,
he's basically saying not guilty, not guilty, so meaning he
didn't do it, and all these technicalities about the gun
and you know everything that we're witnessing happening in this

(33:30):
pre trial. If he had a real or real issue
with health insurance and he had an air Quotes manifesto
and he had a statement to the system on trial,
better the system, right, what a whos move?

Speaker 5 (33:45):
Yeah, I deny that this happened.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
To say you're not guilty and try to get everything
thrown out on a technicality so you can walk at
least take it like a man and stand.

Speaker 5 (33:53):
Up for what system on trial exactly and use.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
That platform if and again I never do I think
for a second that there is any reason to murder,
Certainly not healthcare that he allegedly didn't even have. Don't
get me started on that. But if that was the
hill that he was going to die on, then die
on that hill.

Speaker 5 (34:16):
Luigi.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Now we just see you in Core trying to outsmart
with your outsmart lawyers about technicalities to the Altuna police
and how they are protocol now should get him free.

Speaker 5 (34:29):
You had the.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Gun, You had a manifesto, whether you call it that
or not. You had a journal entry telling yourself to
cut your own eyebrows and to change a clothes. I mean,
fakacta on this list, like, how could you not remember
to change a clothes after you murder a person in
cold blood? We have you on video surveillance pulling out
a gun. We have him talking about the three D
gun allegedly allegedly, allegedly allegedly But come on, Luigi, like

(34:53):
you can't have it always right.

Speaker 5 (34:55):
I here, here's dale.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
I agree with what you're saying, except for the fact
that I think you're trying to apply logic to lunacy
anyone whose end result is and then I'm going to
put a gun in my hand and a bullet in
someone else, and I'm going to change the healthcare system.

Speaker 5 (35:14):
All rationale falls up. Its true, of course, that's so true.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
But seeing him smiling in court and watching him, watch
those moments when he's tucked in the corner like a
little sheep dog in his little cap, in his little
mask and covering his little eyebrows, eating a hash brown,
you know, shaken like a little leaf. To me, he
seemed like a kid. You're like this little kid who
was raised by a really nice family. By all accounts,

(35:39):
had a lot of opportunity, went to the fanciest of
fancy schools, valedictorian in high school, goes on to study
at ivy league schools. I mean, talk about having opportunity
given to you. Granted, had a terrible back injury, lots
of heartache there. I can only imagine Primeier River. Luigi.
So you decided that you're going to make a real
dent in the world by right bringing this cause to

(36:01):
the surface.

Speaker 5 (36:02):
And therefore all of these girls and fans.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Are outside the courthouse throwing themselves at this idea of Luigi,
and this little weasel is like, well, I didn't get
a rest, they didn't read me. My Miranda rites in
the first nineteen minutes. So therefore, like at least Tim Kazinski,
if I'm not mistaken, at least really stood by his nonsense.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
He did, you know what, this is one other side
and then we will get to the details of the trial.
But today I was looking up Luig Manjion body cam footage. Okay,
that was my search, and I came upon body a
body pillow I came upon.

Speaker 5 (36:42):
I'm looking at it right now.

Speaker 4 (36:44):
I'm not even gonna say from where it's from, but
it's it's a literally, it's a pillow. People love this
guy and the one I'm looking at it says Saint Luigi,
and it's a pillow as this one.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
But it's really took a man's life, allegedly in cold blood.
Like say what you want about the healthcare CEO, with
all due respect, that guy was like running every piece
of the show. Right, regardless of what you think about healthcare,
you don't just murder a guy who had two sons
of his own and a life that he had to
go home to until Luigi on a cold wintry one.

Speaker 5 (37:18):
Year ago today, by the way, happy anniversary one year
ago today, that he was caught. Cort not think about that,
this Altuna police.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
You know, we're seeing the body cam footage. It was
one year ago today cold, it was rainy. So in
a very short amount of time, Luigi's been behind bars,
got lawyered up with the best of the best, the
best that money can buy. I feel for his family, Like,
what a bummer.

Speaker 5 (37:45):
You have lost?

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Misgiven everything to Luigi and this is what turns out
in the end, right, m You're right, So don't get
us started.

Speaker 5 (37:56):
Don't get me started. What do you mean you haven't
started yet. I'm totally done.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
I promise to be done. I'm euthanizing myself right now.

Speaker 5 (38:06):
If you're just joining us.

Speaker 4 (38:07):
We are talking about Luis Jumangione, the twenty seven year
old who's accused of murdering United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson,
who was caught five days after the alleged his alleged
involvement in the incident. We'd love to hear from you
eight at eight three one crime. So today is the

(38:29):
fifth day of this pre trial hearing. Again, we have
these hearings to decide what will and will not be
ultimately presented to a jury. And Mangione's defense attorneys argue
that a search of Mangione's backpack upon his arrest violated
his constitutional rights. Meanwhile, the prosecutors are maintaining it was

(38:53):
justified due to the backpack potentially containing dangerous items which
ps it did, Yes, so good, right, and a loaded magazine.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Imagine if this guy wasn't like a handsome white do
we think we would all be having this conversation? And
I say handsome in air quotes because I do not
want to attach a look to somebody who allegedly took
another life. But that seems to be the chatter that
you know, he's a young, handsome guy and therefore he
should get away with it.

Speaker 9 (39:26):
No, I don't think that's the chatter more the healthcare side.

Speaker 5 (39:31):
I think it's more like the martyr side.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
I think that in being a martyr, he's like denying it.

Speaker 5 (39:38):
Well, that's the thing, right, Like like I was saying earlier,
like I felt initially like he wanted to get arrested
and put the system on trial. But now I think, well,
maybe I'm wrong about that. But then I realized then
I watched this bodycam footage today and I'm like, that's right.
He had that mask on. I had forgotten about that,
And it's literally the same photo, like his same fit

(40:00):
in everything, like from the photo that was released like
twenty four hours prior. Like what a dummy.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
He had a to do list in his backpack and
on it was a change hat and I guess he
hadn't gotten that far down his list.

Speaker 5 (40:13):
Literally it was on his little weird list.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
I was like, how does this guy not know to
change his own clothes and like his eye watch movies? Yeah,
to pluck his eyebrows, like I feel like I've seen
this movie a thousand times, yes, or at least keep
the hat over your eyebrows.

Speaker 5 (40:27):
But he didn't do anything correctly yet.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
He somehow got away from midtown Manhattan and through Central
Park and evaded lots of police and kne where the
blind spots were and somehow stayed in the hostel and
used a fake ID and got about for many many
days before being arrested in this McDonald's.

Speaker 5 (40:44):
Right, and he had nowhere to go. He had gotten
off the bus. He tried to check into the hotel,
but they were like, and check ins not until you
know whatever. So he's like, well, I guess I'm gonna
have to go to this McDonald's and hang out there
until check in? Why would he hang out in the
McDonald's too?

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Like what just like it was probably and grows out,
but he wasn't even trying to hide.

Speaker 5 (41:04):
Well, no, he looked exactly the same as the polygraph
that all the news stations like every outlet. You know,
you couldn't get away from this photo.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Meanwhile, he had the dumb bullets with the you know
the pose. Yeah, like that was so clever, and the
Monopoly money in the backpack.

Speaker 5 (41:21):
Remember Monopoly money.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Like there was a big It was a big start
in a really bad finish.

Speaker 5 (41:27):
I mean, do you but I remember when all this
was going down. I mean I remember it so well,
and it was just like the monopoly I mean, it
was just like one thing after another, Like at first
I didn't like bullets with Deny defender, pose, what is happening?
And then like a day or two later, Monopoly money,
what do you talk? What is going on? Because it
seemed like the Riddler or something that was like in

(41:49):
Golden City, all leaving clues and stuff behind. It was
very intriguing. And then you just see this like kind
of mopey guy sitting in the McDonald's eating a hash
brown and it's like, wait a minute, Yeah, this is
the Riddler. What do you This stinks?

Speaker 2 (42:04):
They see the manifesto and it gets real dope, and
he has a to do list to change his clothes
and pluck his eyebrows.

Speaker 5 (42:10):
The magazine is in like wet great underwe.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
And like he did have like he was trying to
escape because he had that little sleeve, the farritor sleeve.
What is that where you?

Speaker 5 (42:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, we should all get those, right if I have one? Oh,
of course you do. I do?

Speaker 5 (42:30):
What do I guess you keep your phone in it
all the time, so you're not never I don't. I
got it as a gift. I have ever, it's a
great gift. It is a good gift. It goes. It's
in my fireproof safe, which by the way, is also empty.
But yeah, yeah, I have the same empty So if
I just got it from I think my birth certificates
in there or something like that.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, but we were really you would use that if
the grid went down and we were being attacked.

Speaker 5 (42:58):
Or something like God, yah, I mean, when am I
going to use a four solar flare attacks?

Speaker 9 (43:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
To know, But at the time when this all happened.
You know, Courtney, you and I were working together on
this case and we were knee deep, like we were
going through every photo body too, every single photograph. And
you know, I remember thinking, oh, my god, I cracked
the case. I see the photo with the spine and
it must be an injury, and oh, it's his injury,
and he has been having a hard time getting healthcare.

Speaker 5 (43:26):
By the way, none of that ended.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Up being true.

Speaker 5 (43:28):
Yes, he had a back injury, but that was the
extent of it. He really changed at this back injury though,
from my understanding, like that personality really kind of shifted
when this back injury happened and he had moved to Hawaii.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Again, it was a really popular guy, really sociable by
all accounts, huge family, right, and then he had gone
and taken a remote job in Hawaii so he could
exercise and be really healthy because that's what he was.
And I'm remembering this, I think correctly by his former
roommate gave a lot of interviews at the time, was Jr.

Speaker 5 (44:04):
Exactly Jr?

Speaker 2 (44:06):
And JR remembers the time that he was outsurfing and
you know, had this back injury, and yeah, it was
debilitating and stole his joy. Anyone who's ever had back
injury can only imagine, Yeah, it steals your joy.

Speaker 5 (44:18):
You don't go I kill somebody. Though.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
He turns out he was not a United Healthcare recipient.
That's not who he was covered by. But again, if
he was maybe losing I don't think mind, was it depression?
Is that the issue?

Speaker 5 (44:33):
I don't think that was the point though. I don't
think like him being covered by healthcare by that specific
health care was the point. You know, it was the
big picture, like standing up for all Americans. I mean,
that's how listen. I don't think that's what he did.
I think that's what he thought he did. That does
I don't, Yeah, like he's standing up for The target
is insurance. Remember Healthcare is the biggest cast. They're my

(44:58):
carrier and you know, trust me, they suck. But she
didn't mean that. I am still waiting for my mental
health appointment. United Healthcare. Get it together. But you know,
like I think he was trying to stand up for
all Americans. But in his mind, he thought he was
that riddler hero.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
In his mentally ill mind, no doubt right, right, this
has to be a case of mental illness, and I'm
surprised that hasn't been brought into the equation at this point.

Speaker 5 (45:27):
Mm hmm, well the trial hasn't begun.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
How bad was his back hurt? Now that he is
sleeping on ah essentially and one of the most you know,
notoriously uncomfortable.

Speaker 5 (45:39):
But it is better actually, because sometimes hard surfaces are
better for back injuries, aren't they. I don't think metal
And at that place fast enough, that place was bad.
When are we going to talk about did he? I started?
Keep it here?

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (45:59):
Did he? Will be tomorrow in depth and then after
the break.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
Brian Walsh trial is entering a new phase and there's
some really interesting DNA revelations that are unveiled. Do not
forget give us a call aighted a three to one crime.
We'd love to hear from you.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with Courtney
and Body and we're already in the second hour. So
if you have missed any of the shows so far,
please do not worry, not even for a second, because
you can always catch us right after as a podcast,
and you can always leave us some talkbacks. Speaking of talkbacks,

(46:47):
we have Jarrett Farentino with us tomorrow, our favorite prosecutor.
So if you have any legal questions about any of
the cases that we've been covering specifically, go ahead and
leave us talkbacks, or you could always leave a voicemail,
even overnight at eight eight eight three. One crime, little
old school, but we will get it and we can
still play it on the show. So keep them coming.

(47:09):
So back to Luigi Courtney, because we know that there
were some new details that you wanted.

Speaker 5 (47:14):
To share, and Stephanie and I just were like blah blah,
blah blah. So let's let's hear what happened in court today.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
But it's a lot, I mean, all valid and a lot,
you know, a lot to say. But in today was
the fifth day of the pre trial hearings for Luigi Mangione.
If you're just catching us, he Mangio, Knie, it's it's
a really, it's the struggle.

Speaker 5 (47:37):
I hear mass.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
I know, I hop over go with Mangion if you want.

Speaker 4 (47:42):
Okay, So Mangione, he is the man who's accused of
murdering United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. And that was one
year and five days ago when the shooting happened, and
one year ago today is when he was captured at
a Pennsylvania McDonald's. So today in court, Officer Stephen Fox

(48:06):
testified about the search and this is all about when
man je oone was approached by local police officers who
came to the McDonald's because one of the managers called
nine on one and said, Hey, I think this is
the guy who the national manhunt is trying to find.
Stephen Fox was a responding officer and he testified that

(48:29):
the backpack search was conducted as a search incident to arrest,
and it was done without a warrant, but that was
due to a concern that it contained a weapon. So
it is a search incident to arrest. It is a
legal exception to the Fourth Amendments a warrant requirement, and

(48:50):
it does allow police to conduct a warrantless search if
an arrestor of an arrestee's person and the area within
what they call their wingspan, so anything they can immediately control.

Speaker 5 (49:02):
And this is for.

Speaker 4 (49:02):
Safety is why why it happens. And Officer Fox had
he did the search and when his colleague who testified yesterday,
Officer Wasser pulled out a loaded magazine wrapped in a
pair of the aforementioned wet gray underpants. You can hear

(49:28):
Wasser saying it's effing him, dude. So at that time
they knew he indeed was the guy who the manhunt
was after. Anyone who's curious. Mangione had a jar of
peanut butter and a knife in his pockets, which he
alerted the officers to when he was being frisk and
this goes if you guys remember he also had a

(49:49):
loaf of bread.

Speaker 5 (49:50):
It reminds me of the sesame tree.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
So also included was the to do list, which we
touched on a little bit in the backpack, and you
know the plucking of the eyebrows which he didn't get
var on his to do list.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
To do list is that at hand, I can't handle
the to do list. If you haven't seen it, I
almost want to post it on our website. The to
do list is just too much.

Speaker 4 (50:16):
Yeah, and here's just a few little odds and ends,
like little bobbits that came out on the stand. So
Officer Fox testified that Mangione, the accused, expressed concern for
the McDonald's manager's privacy and wanted to know if their

(50:38):
identity was going to be released, and said, oh, it
would be bad for her if.

Speaker 5 (50:43):
It did, so, I don't know, just to take thought ball,
so thought ball. He also apologized for being suspicious. Remember,
like the cop approached him and he's like, you know,
they think you're suspicious, and Luigi says, oh, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Yeah. And then once they had him handcuffed, he must
have like almost tripped a little bit or something, and
you know, the officer was like, oh, I'm so sorry,
you know, realizing he's shackled, and his response was, well,
I guess i'd get better get used to this being
in shackles.

Speaker 5 (51:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Do you think he's losing his mind? At that point,
he looked pretty relaxed, but nervously pretty.

Speaker 5 (51:23):
He looked like a little kid.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Like I imagined his mother like seeing this today and
just thinking that is like my little boy, Like where
did this go? So sideways?

Speaker 5 (51:33):
What a waste? What a waste? So sad? I mean,
what a waste.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
Brian Thompson who lost his life, Mangione, who life will
not be any family.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
All ruined, you know, Brian Thompson, The victims children's lives
are forever changed. Obviously in you know, the immediate family, friends,
all the things, and even Mangioni's family, you know, there
forever change. It's a real scene.

Speaker 5 (52:03):
Yeah, it really is. One last thing that stood out
to me.

Speaker 4 (52:07):
It is just kind of odd that Officer Fox said
on the stand. So he was one of the people
who helped transfer Mangione to the courthouse for his arraignment.
They at that point were met with a huge group
of media, and on the stand, Officer Fox said that

(52:28):
Mangione turned to him as they were leaving and said, quote,
all these people here for a mass murderer.

Speaker 5 (52:35):
Why a mask murder?

Speaker 9 (52:37):
That's correct himself is a mass murder.

Speaker 5 (52:41):
It doesn't make I thought.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
I thought he meant masked because he was wearing his
actual like mask, so I heard it different.

Speaker 5 (52:51):
But I'm sure I'm wrong.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
I'm also deaf in one year, so take that with
a grain of salt. But I didn't hear a mass murder.
I heard masked.

Speaker 5 (53:00):
Well, if you know what he said, give us a
call thirty one Crime and hit us up on the
talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app. Right.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
I was so curious too, do we see his parents
or any of his family members in court today. I
don't know what they look like enough to even know.

Speaker 5 (53:18):
No, I don't know. Yeah, we only get still photos
right because it's.

Speaker 7 (53:22):
Federal, correct, So I have not seen anything with the
parents as of yet.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Yeah, and I haven't seen anything like much ado outside
of the courthouse, et cetera. You know, when we were
watching the Diddy trial, for example, you know, you would
see the family members and Janee his mother walking in
or his children walking in as a show of you know, solidarity.
We also saw this in the Brian Coburger case. So yeah,

(53:48):
I mean, I know he has a very loving family
and like hundred cousins. I'm slightly exaggerating, but I saw
a family photo of all the manchies and there's a
lot of them, and they're all just this really lovely.

Speaker 5 (54:00):
They not come to like these are pre trial hearings,
so they might not come to those. They might wait
for the trial. If anything, you know, you get to
seek him in person. If it's your.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Baby, you know, I know, I know, yeah, I might
call him a baby. I'm mad at this baby.

Speaker 5 (54:15):
No, and then year old man.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
He a baby.

Speaker 4 (54:20):
He's a murderer allegedly, yes, and speaking of Just to clarify,
he the officer on the stand did say mass as
in multiple so just which again has no bearing on
the facts that we're aware of, but that's what was said.
But now, body, I think that we are going to

(54:42):
turn our attention to mister Brian Walsh.

Speaker 5 (54:45):
We are actually are going to go to a.

Speaker 9 (54:47):
Talk back good Morning True Crime. G here.

Speaker 5 (54:52):
I just find it so strange that in today's world,
this Brian Walsh character would take time to do all
these Google searches. I mean, you know people are going
to find them.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Where is your brain? Is he just go outside of
his head because of what he just did to his wife?

Speaker 4 (55:10):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Crazy world we live in. And by the way, some
of these Google searches, great question, we're asking ourselves the
same ones. He's a douf, he's a duke. But he
was also doing these searches prior to her death.

Speaker 5 (55:23):
Prior to her death as well, right, I believe this
was premeditated murder one. But yeah, no, he's Gigi. He
is not the brightest. Every team needed it to do list, Yeah,
he needed it to do list washing. Something I missed yesterday,
you know, we were talking about the video of Brian Walsh.

(55:45):
He's the accused wife killer out of Massachusetts. Okay. He's
accused of killing his wife, Anna Walsh. Okay. Now, Anna
was killed and dismembered and distributed throughout the city of
Boston area, Okay. And he admits that he's guilty of

(56:06):
dismembering her, but he says that he did not kill her.
So that's just the basic synopsis of the case.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Right.

Speaker 5 (56:13):
But he is seen on the Loew's surveillance video of
the cash renster buying these items, right, And we were
talking about it yesterday how he's kind of like smiling
into the camera and like, you know, fixing his hair
and whatnot. I didn't notice this yesterday, but I rewatched
it again last night because I sent you guys a video.
And there's a little kid in this video. It's and

(56:33):
I look, it's his son. He brought one of his kids.
And I don't know if there's other kids in the
in the video. I only saw one to buy the
items to dismember their mother. And he's standing there watching
his dad check out with hack saws and taivek suits
and you know, mops and buckets. And I'm just like,

(56:56):
I just wanted to strangle him myself when I saw
this again and last night, I was like, we.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Even I don't know if we talked about this on
the show or during the break because we were curious
where were the kids during we talked about him.

Speaker 5 (57:08):
So that was one piece of it.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
And it's funny you bring that up because I had
noticed also that here he was checking out his you know,
saw and things to ultimately, you know, hack up his
beloved wife, and there's this little like random kid online
or in the background. I'm thinking, you know, it's funny.
You go to Low's or any of these stores, you

(57:30):
don't think who's around me? Can you imagine You're just
like having a regular day shopping after the New year
for your home goods, and in front of you the
man that looks perfectly normal, who's checking out I assume
he's cutting down a tree, but no, he's actually about
to go hack his wife. And here's a little kid,
not even thinking that little kid was his.

Speaker 4 (57:52):
Yeah, this guy, this is the child.

Speaker 9 (57:56):
He's doing this to protect the kids.

Speaker 5 (57:58):
A joke I hate.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Can we hear anything more ridiculous? Walsh for his children?

Speaker 5 (58:08):
I mean, listen, He's today was day seven, and let
me tell you it was a snoozefest today. There was
like an it started out with like an hour long sidebar,
and I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh, I'm like
falling asleep, like when is this going to start? And
then it starts and I'm like, oh my god, I
can hear myself just like zoning out, like in my

(58:28):
head just looking at Brian Walsh in his stupid sweater. Anyway,
so today was now that I have vented, Here's what happened.
Today was day seven in the murder trial for the
accused Massachusetts wife killer Brian Walsh. Today's proceedings, the prosecutors
presented the DNA evidence leaking the victim his wife on

(58:49):
a Walsh two key evidentary items. Brian Walsh's defense emphasizes
that DNA testing cannot determine when or how the material
was topopod. The accused killer, Brian Walsh, is on trial
for first degree murder of his wife, who disappeared on
New Year's Day twenty twenty three. The accused Brian Walsh,

(59:10):
has admitted to dismembering the body right, but he continues
to dispute the murder charge. Claiming she died of sudden,
unexplained death. Okay, so that's the synopsis. So today the
forensics expert from the Massachusetts State Police, they all like
the whole lab. The whole lab was there today. I

(59:31):
feel like there was just like witness after witness after
witstness and they all do like one specific thing, all right,
and it was it was not exciting, but you know,
they testified that they did confirm DNA from the victim
on a Walsh. It was found on multiple items. There
were stains, oh, the basement floor, they lifted up the

(59:54):
rug in the basement or you know, and it was
just blood everywhere and they showed the photo. It was horrific.

Speaker 9 (01:00:01):
Oh god.

Speaker 10 (01:00:02):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:00:02):
DNA was found on the basement floor, as I just described,
a rug, a hacksaw blade, and hatchet. DNA linked both
to Anna and Brian were found on the interior of
slippers the Tivik suit that were recovered from like the
trash tap, and Gau's test showed strong DNA links to

(01:00:24):
Brian Walsh, but he was not connected to the blood
stains found elsewhere. Unknown tissue was recovered from a dumpster
and it matched victim on a Walsh's DNA blood evidence
of significance was only detected in the basement. No confirmatory
blood tests were done in other parts of the home,

(01:00:44):
which is gonna come up later because the defense really
questioned that. The defense Larry Tipton cross examined the witnesses
and he emphasized, you know, the DNA links you know,
Anna to the accused, because he admits that he dismembered her.
But basically he's saying, yeah, there's DNA on the hacksaw
and whatnot, but nothing nothing in the house that you're

(01:01:04):
aware of that could be described as blood spatter. And
the analyst replied, that's correct. So they're basically trying to
say that. They're basically trying to say that, yeah, the
DNA is going to be on there, but that doesn't
tell you how she died. And there's no blood spatter anywhere.
Isn't that suspicious?

Speaker 10 (01:01:21):
Right?

Speaker 5 (01:01:21):
That's basically what they're I think they can't tell if
that he drugged her or knocked her out those things.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
And by the way, the kids are home and at
this point, while he's hacking her up in his bedroom,
which she's allegedly in the basement, so the kids are
in the house.

Speaker 5 (01:01:37):
Yeah, I don't know that. We don't know yet, so
we're up to stay tuned for that. But there's a
you know, I really want to talk to Jarrett Farantino
tomorrow about the defense strategy because the defense I think
is doing a good job with this. They're basically saying, yeah,
we admit that he, you know, dismembered her. Of course
you're going to find DNA in the hecksaw, But that
DNA doesn't tell you how she died, right, and the

(01:01:57):
guy's like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
It, Therefore he should just get three years.

Speaker 5 (01:02:00):
Well, we'll see, we'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Coming up, a new wrinkle in the Long Island serial
killer investigation, and the questions get even deeper.

Speaker 5 (01:02:07):
Keep it right here, True Brentime.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with Courtney
and Vadi, and we've been talking a lot about Luigi.
We've been talking a lot about Brian Walsh. If you've
missed anything, no problem to catch us after as a podcast. Now,
there are these new developments both in the David case
and also the Long Island serial killer, who we have

(01:02:41):
not spoken about in a while, body take it away.

Speaker 5 (01:02:45):
Right, So we haven't talked about the Long Island serial
killer in quite some time, that's right. But you know,
there were several victims and there were I believe three
that were being tied to him. Well, no four, actually
they were being told but they were like, sure, but
we've got an answer on two of them now, Okay.
So a Florida man, Andrew Dykes, was indicted. Of course,

(01:03:09):
that starts with Florida. I know, I know. It was
indicted for the murders of a Tanya Denise Jackson and
her two year old daughter near Gilgo Beach, and authorities
have confirmed that their deaths are not linked to the
Long Island serial killer. The victims, Tanya Denise Jackson known
as Peaches, and her daughter Tatiana known as Baby Doe,

(01:03:33):
they were discovered years apart near Gilgo Beach, right, and
that's where Rex Humerman, the Long Island serial killer, basically
would place his victims. So when they found these two,
there were a lot of assumptions going around that, you know,
Rex Humorman was probably responsible for these two as well,
but there was never any evidence and he was hasn't

(01:03:53):
never been charged with those with those murders. But they
arrested this guy, Andrew Dykes, and he is the father
of the baby do so we don't. He was indicted
by a grand jury. He's being extradited to New York.
But we don't know exactly what evidence, like in totality,
that they have against him yet, but we're gonna definitely learn.

(01:04:17):
For those who don't know about the Long Island serial killer,
can we just get into that real quick? Yeah, for sure.
So the alleged uh, let's just say Lisk, Long Island
serial killer Lisk. It's a lot easier for me to say, Okay,
the alleged Lisk. His name is Rex Hureman and he
is an what he was an architect out of Massapeka Park,

(01:04:41):
New York.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Which is a beautiful part of Long Yeah, about forty
five minutes outside New York City.

Speaker 5 (01:04:48):
Right, I have a lot of family right there, do
you really? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Right?

Speaker 5 (01:04:52):
Absolutely? Wow? Well, rex Hureman Lisk. He's been charged with
killing seven women, six of whom were found along the
beach area. Three additional charges were added in twenty twenty four.
So he was initially charged with the Gilgo Beach four
and then they added three more and people were kind
of thinking that they were going to add you know,

(01:05:13):
peaches to this this list, but never they never did.
So he's being accused of killing seven women, and you
know a lot of them were sex workers and he
would lure them out, and there's a lot of evidence
against him. You know, Courtney, we were just talking about
the push pins in the ceiling, you know, during the
documentaries the what was the documentary called again God, it

(01:05:38):
was so good too. It's on Peacock, right, it's on
Peacock and well, in this documentary they talked about how
he had this basement, you know, Rex here and I
had this base area. He was torturing women down there.
It was just really terrible. I don't want to get
into all of it because it's just really disgusting. But
he had this you know, those ceilings with like the

(01:05:58):
little holes like it. The time got almost like it
was almost like yeah, and he he would specifically use
push pins to like hang things from and dry and
whatnot because they wouldn't leave like evidence, noticeable marks, noticeable marks, right.

Speaker 4 (01:06:16):
And the documentary was the Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets,
And in this House of Secrets includes what you're talking
about was basically a torture chamber, no kind of a
Lester style, put them in like vices and essentially torture
them for long periods of time in his family home,
I might add where he had a wife, and he

(01:06:37):
had a daughter, and he had a son of special
needs with special needs.

Speaker 5 (01:06:41):
And his wife is from Iceland, and you know, she
would go to Iceland to visit her family and bring
the kids, and that's when these murders would happen, when
the wife was out of town. You know, he basically
used his his family as like camouflage, right. Really he
left behind them and his wife was was. I don't
know she still is because I don't know what her

(01:07:01):
standing is now. I know that her house is decorated
for Christmas, and it's all, yeah, I know, I thought
that was strange. So a co stroll of things.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
You know. In that same documentary, they do a sit
down interview with Rex Humerman's wife now ex wife, but
she stands by her man, and in that interview seems
pretty devoted to Rex and still in full denial that
this could be true. Now cut to close to a
year later, I'm curious if her tune has changed. My
vote is that he's going to plead out. I mean,

(01:07:32):
the evidence has really stacked against him. And these new
developments with Peaches and Peach's child so heartbreaking. Sotas, there's
some closure. I'm so glad that it was always sort
of an outsider.

Speaker 5 (01:07:45):
It matched. She had a different circumstance. There were not allowed.
She was still a military, she was African American. She
matched the victimology basically, right, That's why she didn't match.
But she was found in that area. So what happened
was there was like a training exercise for this canine unit, right,

(01:08:07):
and they were out there doing their exercises and they
stumbled across the first body of the Go Go beach
four and then you know, the cop is like, oh
my god, I found this body. And then like a
day or two later, they found another one, and they
just kept finding body after body because then they realized,
oh my god, we got a problem. But this body
had been sitting out there for years and years and

(01:08:28):
years and years. I mean these rex unine killed these
women over a span of decades and.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
Then would go back to his house and go back
to his job as an architect in New York City
with his daughter. He would often travel on the Long
Island Railroad on the daily, like every other Long Islander
does commutes to the city for their you know, New
York City job.

Speaker 5 (01:08:49):
But you know, I'm from the.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Long Island La gran Konkma, not too far from where
this all happened. And you know, this case was the
case that we all talked about all the time. You know,
there had to be answers. We even believed in our hearts.
According will laugh, but like I say this so often,
for a very long time, we believed that my oldest
brother went to high school with the Long Island serial killer.

Speaker 5 (01:09:17):
But you know, and then there was all.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
This nefarious behavior at the Suffolk County Police Department during
that time period. By the way, all these things can
be true at the same time.

Speaker 5 (01:09:27):
And it's funny.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
We just never really did this case deeply for either
a podcast or a documentary sly because it was too
close to home. Honestly, Like I just it kind of
that gives.

Speaker 5 (01:09:38):
You a unique perspective to tell the story that's true. Listen,
I think you guys do a really good job with
your podcast, like your you know in Cells and Idaho
four and you know, most specifically Piked and massacre. I mean,
you guys do a really good job telling those long
I think you should. Just my opinion, and I would definitely, I.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
Mean say, I feel like we know so much about it,
but I always felt a little close to home. And then,
you know, is it going to turn out that there's
a person involved that we all knew growing up? Not
that we do, but yeah, and now it seems like
Rex is really the guy, and I am pretty curious
to know if he's going to actually go to trial.
There doesn't seem to be a trial date set in

(01:10:20):
any way.

Speaker 4 (01:10:21):
No, I believe that was His next court date is
scheduled for January thirteenth.

Speaker 5 (01:10:28):
Yeah, when they the judge made a ruling about some
DNA that they they basically had to build DNA. And
you remember we had CC on CC Moore and she
was talking about this lab in California that had to
basically build this DNA and it's the first time in
New York that they've allowed this kind of DNA to
be you know, brought in. And when that happened, the

(01:10:53):
scuttle butt, you know, in the news articles was that
the trial would was likely to start in the summer
of twenty twenty six, so we still have a long
way to go with Lisk. Now, the judge did rule
in Lisk that all seven counts against him, you know,
the murder charges against him, can be tried at once,

(01:11:14):
which is such a big deal. Yeah, it's a big,
big deal.

Speaker 7 (01:11:18):
So tell me, because I don't know if that doesn't
often happen, and why why does it?

Speaker 5 (01:11:22):
I mean, there's not a Listen, there's not a lot
of people that you know, go to trial for serial killings,
So there's not a I mean the obviously there's history there,
but there's not a ton right right, right, So sometimes
what would happen is they'll get charged with one and
then get convicted of it, and then two years later

(01:11:44):
they'll find another body and then they'll get convicted of that,
you know what I mean. So to do all seven
at once is kind of it's it's definitely a win
for the prosecution, I will exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:11:55):
And in this case, the cell phone that the cell
phone evidence he featured incredibly prominently. I'd have to imagine
in trial because a lot of the evidence has Huberman's
burner phones and you see him going from his home
in long Island to the to Manhattan and back. And

(01:12:17):
then also it's lining up with when he's hitting up
some of the victims on their cell phones.

Speaker 5 (01:12:22):
I mean, it is well, that seems so clear as day.
Not only that that's so true, but not only that,
he also would carry around his victims phones with them
his burners and they would travel together to the Manhattan
office and back, or or he would dump in New York.
And you know what I mean, talk.

Speaker 4 (01:12:44):
About needing a to do list, and talk about also
he had that scary list, remember that inventory list he had,
He had a checklist.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
The only thing positive that came out of this case,
the only thing that can be gleaned as silver lining,
is just that all of the moms of these women,
the victims, got really tossed aside because they were, oh
they're on drugs, or oh they're you know, she's turning tricks,
or it is an escort, so okay, therefore she should

(01:13:15):
be in a burla distarted into the dunes.

Speaker 5 (01:13:19):
On Long Islands, Gilgo Beach.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
What was always kind of crazy making it was so
dismissive and and frankly, it was really sloppy police work
at that time, because who knows why. Bigger story probably there.
Listen to the podcast We'll.

Speaker 4 (01:13:33):
Tell you all about it was just.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Because that also was very telling. The girls didn't get
their proper set and it's crazy making and because of
these moms, the families, they were not letting it go.
And then they got together, they banned together, they did,
and then it became they became unstoppable.

Speaker 5 (01:13:57):
To this day, they are unstoppable. I think there's a
documentary about them. Yeah, it's excellent on Amazon. Oh, it's
on Amazon. I think it's on Amazon.

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
I could be wrong.

Speaker 5 (01:14:07):
It was Netflix.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
You're very good. They're all of the so far, the
two documentaries that I've seen on the topic are both excellent.

Speaker 5 (01:14:14):
Yeah, they're very good.

Speaker 9 (01:14:16):
Girl.

Speaker 5 (01:14:19):
Yeah that was good. It was really good. But yeah, no,
so so Netflix.

Speaker 9 (01:14:24):
Anyway.

Speaker 5 (01:14:24):
I think it's the Gong Girls. Yeah, so anyway, So
the trial is apparently supposed to happen in twenty twenty six.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
Obviously we'll be following it very closely. Stephanie and Courtney
both have you know, familial ties to that area, so
we'll definitely be following it.

Speaker 5 (01:14:41):
And the victim, Peaches and her beautiful daughter, you know,
baby Doe is now they now have names, because for
a while it was just Peaches and baby dough, and
she was called Peaches because you know, one of the
identifying features of the of her remains was a peaches tattoo. Yep.
So for a long time nobody knew who she was.

(01:15:04):
It was just Peaches and baby Dough. Well, now they
have a name, Tanya Denise Jackson and her daughter Tatiana,
and the father of Tatiana, Andrew Dykes, who resides in
Florida now, is being extradited to New York for her
murder there there, So that's a blessing that long over,

(01:15:28):
long overdo. And we can put a pin in that that,
you know, Lisk is not responsible for that murder or
those two murders, I'd say, But yeah, we should definitely
unpack this a little bit more, you know, go over
the list, bring everybody back up to speed on, you know,
because I mean, there's so many things. There's so many things, right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
What were the pushpins for, Like, so he was putting
what was he taking the pushpins and putting on the ceiling?

Speaker 4 (01:15:55):
Well, it was contraptions, was part of it to this
sort of.

Speaker 9 (01:16:01):
I thought it was a protective something like a plastic
or something.

Speaker 5 (01:16:04):
The plastic you know, like the Dexter style seating. Yeah,
you know how Dexter had like those kill rooms Dexter
the TV show, and he would have those plastic you
know rooms and he would yeah that he would push
pin them into the ceilings so that he you know,
there would the splatter and whatnot would be a fews,

(01:16:28):
what a wild If you've seen this house, it's a
beautiful neighborhood and it's the scariest house on the block.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
It looks like a dungeon downside, and you don't treat
a you know, so exactly, you know, if one needs
blow by, and you know that's a real thing. You know,
even for his kids, they were probably living in the
house that everyone was like, what's up with that house? Yeah,
and the guy's an architect. I might add he's an architect,
but you know for the family, like you think you're

(01:16:54):
going home and that you would sense it, it doesn't
appear that they sensed it. You know, this guy car
it up his tracks pretty good. Well.

Speaker 5 (01:17:02):
I know that btk's daughter, cart Carrie is talking to
the Long Island serial killer's daughter, and you know, because
they both share this thing in common, and it's in
that documentary, the conversations, and so I hope that Carrie
is helping, you know, her kind of get through it,
because I know she's very torn up about it. You know,
could you imagine? I cannot imagine. Now I can't either.

(01:17:25):
It just has to be the worst feeling. And you know,
by all accounts, Rex was kind of like a normal dad,
you know, and you know, he had this beautiful daughter,
and she's just like, oh my god, what am I doing?
I should love them. I think his son is the
step son, but they were like a little perfect family
and it's just been shattered by this.

Speaker 9 (01:17:45):
It's awful.

Speaker 5 (01:17:46):
Well, stick around because we've got more to dig into.
I am going to talk some crap about Brian Coberger,
so stay tuned for that. It's Bananas Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Staph here with Courtney
and Body and listen, we want to go straight to
a talkback, but we still have David to get to
and also Body has an update on Brian Coberger, So
let's go to the talkback.

Speaker 5 (01:18:25):
First.

Speaker 10 (01:18:25):
Good evening, It's Cynthia from Canada calling, just calling regards
to the lawsuit that was filed by the Idaho victims family.
I'm surprised it has taken so long for them to
file the suit against the university, and I hope that
the outcome is what they're looking for. I also hope
that the university takes this as a lesson and changes
their policies and puts better safeguards in place for the

(01:18:48):
students that attend their university and the community at Lard.

Speaker 5 (01:18:53):
Have a great night, bye, good point. You know, it
took a long time, right, But here's the thing. In
contrary to popular belief, the families of victims really don't
know a lot more than we do. You know, they
don't because it's the sanctity of the trial, right, So
they really do. They hear a lot of rumors and
gossip and think, you know, people feed them things and whatnot,

(01:19:15):
but they don't really know everything until we do, right,
And we only just learned about all these reports. You
had heard some gossip and whatnot, but you know, the
the you know, the Washington State University and the Idaho
State Police, you know, they were able to talk to

(01:19:36):
people and get these you know, reports about how Brian
Coberger was behaving at WSU and so it's kind of
new information. So it's for you know, the whole thing
about you know, it took them a long enough kind
of situation they it. I think it actually happened pretty quick, right,
So Brian Coberger, if you're not familiar, Brian Coburger is

(01:19:59):
in prison serving multiple life sentences for the murders of
Idaho students Idaho University. I'm sorry, students Kaylee Gonsalvez, Madison Mogan,
Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. They were murdered by Brian
Coberger in November of twenty twenty two. They were stabbed

(01:20:21):
to death in their home while they slept. And you know,
he's a creep of all creeps. He did plead guilty
to those crimes, and he is serving he's serving many
many life sentences, and he's now basically saying that he's
going to harm himself is what we're doing. He's you know,

(01:20:41):
he where do I begin with this guy? He It's
like where do you start with him? The family, of course,
they filed this lawsuit and the family has initiated all
this legal you know, work against him, and I'm sorry
against the Washington State University between August and November of

(01:21:04):
twenty twenty two about coworker's behavior, including all those stalking
reports and how he was like hanging over people and
like grooming. You know, security had to start walking students
to cars because of him.

Speaker 4 (01:21:19):
So basically also have a collection of some going back
in his history, of some IDs of women who he encountered.

Speaker 5 (01:21:28):
That in Pennsylvania when they served a search warrant on
his parents' home, the Pennsylvania police found in his room
in a box in a glove. In that box there
were two female IDs and at the time nobody knew
who those ideas belonged to, but they belonged to coworkers

(01:21:51):
of his at when he was a security guard at
the local school. So he apparently was stealing IDs from
women in and hoarding them in a weird box and
a glove. Wow, So listen, he's weird. But yeah, he's
serving for life sentences and he's reportedly fixated on a
bunch of new grievances behind bars right now. It's the

(01:22:14):
type of bananas he's being served. Oh boy, I mean,
you know, here's the thing I think he needs to
control everything, right, and if it's out of his control,
he just can't stand it. And he's in prison.

Speaker 4 (01:22:28):
Well what a honestly that would be, like, you know,
literally helps ridiculous because it's the opposite.

Speaker 5 (01:22:35):
You control nothing.

Speaker 4 (01:22:35):
You don't control when you sleep, when you eat, when
you shower, when you walk outside. So if if his
own prison and hell could have been crafted, this is
it sounds like he's where he needs to be.

Speaker 5 (01:22:48):
This is it, you know, and you know because of
this Washington State University lawsuit the reason it's being done.
We learned a lot about Brian Coberger, like how he
acted when he was in like a position of authority, right,
he was very controlling. He wanted to control the conversations,
he wanted to control the movement of specifically women, you know,
he would block them in. So he's a very controlling

(01:23:10):
guy when he has the ability to be controlling, and
in prison he don't have the ability. So not only
is he complaining about these bananas, but he's also threatening
self harm. Okay, So Chris McDonough, he's the retired homicide
detective and he's you know, the cold case funtation director.
He told several news outlets including Court, TVN News Nation

(01:23:31):
that coburgers, I'm sorry Coburger's demand to be removed from
the J Block. He wants to be removed from the
J Block to play somewhere else, and that this demand
is due to his relationship with the inmates in that block.
And I'm going to quote here. The prisoners are still
relentlessly harassing him to the point now where he has

(01:23:51):
written staff messages saying that if they don't move him
out of J Block, he is going to harm himself.
McDonough said he wants out of that J block real
bad because other inmates are taunting him. Now Brian Coberger
has turned that into a foundation to use vague threats
about harming himself in an attempt to get out of
the situation in J Block. So he wants out of

(01:24:12):
the block. But here's the thing. If he goes to
the S Block, I don't know whatever they're gonna do.

Speaker 9 (01:24:16):
What they're doing, so yeah, and not.

Speaker 5 (01:24:19):
Only are they gonna do it because he's like a
creepy killer, they're going to do it because he's like
a baby.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
Right, But I like have changed my thoughts on this,
Like you convinced me that he should have some peace
and he should be No, I didn't tell a prison,
and he should have his vegan meals. And that's how
we decide what the world is going to look like,
and that's how we treat our prisoners. Like you got
me on board with that, So and I understand by
the complains. I'm like, well, maybe maybe he maybe.

Speaker 5 (01:24:47):
That's normal for a prison though, right, it's normal for
a prison to be harassed by other.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
Inmates, right, I mean process in a way. No, but
he's he's totally detected. He's he's in a cell twenty
three hours a day. They're just taunting him verbally. He's
completely safe, right, Like they're talking through the events and yeah,
they all night, so he's not able to sleep and
he does.

Speaker 9 (01:25:09):
Prisoners probably have to deal with the same thing.

Speaker 4 (01:25:11):
So of course, of course that's also at least where
my line. Everyone's line is so different and arbitrary, first
of all, but my line is, again that is the
other people who are convicted. It's not the prison itself
providing harassment. It's not a state sanctioned harassment. It's listen,

(01:25:32):
here's who you live with now, tough.

Speaker 7 (01:25:33):
And what do you do if every prisoner now says,
I don't like this and I don't like that.

Speaker 5 (01:25:37):
Like a right exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
But what about just going on Devil's advocate here in
the land. I've never been defending Brian Coberger before, but
here we are. I'm a change of allved woman.

Speaker 5 (01:25:49):
I just think that possible.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
Is it possible though, that he suffers from some level
of autism and has oct and as a result, like
there are certain things that are are more crazy making,
and I mean that quite literally for him and his
condition than they would be for a regular person. So
having sleep habits that are maybe out of line, hearing

(01:26:11):
taunting through the walls twenty four to seven, which is
disrupting his sleep, not having his food arrive at a
certain time, you know, given he has, you know, allegedly
these you know, things like OCD and autism, is that
something that needs to be taken into consideration, out of
out of.

Speaker 5 (01:26:28):
Humanity in that world. Yeah, I think I think that's
probably all true what you said, like with the autism
and the OCD and the sensory issues that he's going
to experience from that. But where are they going to
put him that he doesn't have those things?

Speaker 2 (01:26:42):
That's a fair question.

Speaker 7 (01:26:44):
Yeah, and I don't want to have too cushia prison life, right,
I'm still angry, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
Of course, right, No, I know, it's like, you know,
and at the same time, this is a guy that's
probably loved by somebody. They don't want him to be dead,
you know, and at the you know, now the victims
family may have a different opinion of that, of course,
And I'm not injecting myself into this conversation one way
or the other. But you know, I was really pouncing
on it at one point about the meals, and like

(01:27:10):
I feel like I learned, you know, just either through
you body and listeners about you know, there is you know,
certain people do have things mentally speaking that make this
even harder. I don't know, I don't know the answer.

Speaker 7 (01:27:27):
You're right, it's it's making me look at it in
a different way.

Speaker 9 (01:27:30):
I mean, I'm not saying I don't want.

Speaker 7 (01:27:31):
To want to throw them into a Venezuelan prison or
something crazy and suffer, but like.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
I threw the end is way worse.

Speaker 5 (01:27:37):
I think too is okay, but that's what I mean.

Speaker 7 (01:27:40):
I also feel like he's, you know, he's done something
horrific and I'm I'm fortunately you don't like the bananas
that they're serving you. Oh well, I'm sure other prison
inmates don't particularly care for the meals that they're being served.

Speaker 9 (01:27:52):
Right, Well, if it's.

Speaker 7 (01:27:53):
Not analogy related issue, maybe I can stand by that.

Speaker 9 (01:27:58):
The noise factor, I don't know that one too.

Speaker 4 (01:28:02):
So I was just poking around as we're engaged in this,
uh conversation and in Pennsylvania. So there actually are some
prisons and correctional facilities that are developing neurodiversity wings. Pennsylvania
is one and has century rooms and specific support for
intellectual development.

Speaker 5 (01:28:24):
Psvania is definitely not Idaho. That's correct and kay, But
you know, I also think that I would have I don't.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:28:36):
I looked at this one second ago. Imagine security levels
are as close to death row as you could be.

Speaker 5 (01:28:44):
He is on Chad day Bell. Yeah, he's a stepping
away from death on death row. He is, like I
think he shares a wall with Chad Daybell him all
day Yea. I was going to say, I I am.

Speaker 2 (01:28:59):
Brand I don't think he'll laugh, but talk about a
cell block.

Speaker 5 (01:29:04):
Letters from Chad. Yeah, I need to get back to that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
Oh, we need to get back to that is right,
that guy.

Speaker 5 (01:29:09):
But since entering you know, the prison, the convicticuler of
Brian Coberger, he's filed the steady stream of complaints, naming them.
You know. Many of them are very minor, but it's
about everything from the noise, to cell conditions to interactions
with all the other inmates. A lot of experts are
saying that the you know, he often uses these hyper

(01:29:29):
specific grievances as an attempt to assert control in an
environment where he has none, And in this latest example,
Brian Coberger is reportedly taking issues with the type of
bananas he's being served, insisting they don't meet his standards.
Chris McDonough, the retired detective, quoted in the media he
said that they're not the kind of bananas he likes.

(01:29:52):
The banana the banana complaint. Listen, I feel so silly
talking about this, but the banana complaint continues a pattern
of this food related nitpicks from the convicted killer Brian Coburger,
which prison officials say have little merit. The trivial nature
of the complaint stands in contrast the severity of the
crimes that he committed. And you know, as experts are

(01:30:14):
saying that it's often linked to attention seeking behavior behind bars. Now,
he does have this this eating disorder, this arphid, right,
he definitely has been he's been diagnosed with that. It's
nothing you can really kind of make up. And he
kind of has like this irrational fear of choking, and like,
you know, so he can only have certain kinds of foods.

(01:30:36):
So I would imagine in his mind, you know, the
kind of bananas that he can eat are very specific.
I'm guessing I'm guessing that texture.

Speaker 10 (01:30:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
So interesting, It's just so interesting. Like this is a
person who wanted to be a police officer, who wanted
to dedicate their lives, his life to law enforcement and
keeping the world safe.

Speaker 5 (01:30:59):
And like this is where I think he was doing
all that as a mask, kind of like the Golden
State killer did, or him searching like how do I appear.

Speaker 4 (01:31:09):
To be a human or But I want to add
one other thing that the detective you are quoting said, Uh,
he was a nobody until he murdered four people irrelevant
to the world, and now he's Brian Coberger who has
slaughtered for people. And because he didn't have to stand
up in court, and tell the world how brutal these
crimes were. He holds the cards and he's trying to

(01:31:32):
leverage that, and he says the things perverse. So yeah,
I think he does feel because he never did have
to allocue yea.

Speaker 5 (01:31:41):
And it is that is a controlling thing, right, because
he holds the power. He knows how desperate, like especially
the Consolvst family, the you know Kaylee Gonsalass family. She's
a victim in this crime and she has an enormous
family and they want to know what happened to their daughter.
I mean, all the families want to play. They want

(01:32:01):
to they want to play, they buy every day.

Speaker 10 (01:32:04):
Yea.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
Why there's so many unanswered questions because he's never had
to actually stand up and face the music in a
meaningful way.

Speaker 5 (01:32:11):
Yeah, I those answers too, to be honest, A lot
of people do. I do too. But you know, at
some point it's like, you know, you you have your
closing ceremony on a case kind of situation, we had
to kind of like file the spreadsheet away you and
I've kind of done that with Idaho, and mentally, you know,
like okay, it's time to move on. Of course, you know,

(01:32:31):
still be respectable to the victims and their families and whatnot.
But time to move forward. But Brian Coworker keeps popping
up his stupid, ugly head and making all these little complaints.
And you know, I don't know. I don't know. I
in one hand, as somebody who's also neurodiversion, I feel,
you know, his pain. But at the same time, I'm like, yeah,

(01:32:51):
but look at what you did. You kind of have
to be punished. Kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
Yeah, you describe what his perfect hell is, right is
ultimately what he's living right now, and I think that's
well said. Ooh, complicated note to end on ladies. But
you know, I call it what a justice? You call
it what a justice? Fair enough?

Speaker 5 (01:33:10):
Fair enough?

Speaker 2 (01:33:11):
I feel confused by it now. I feel all torn
about the prison system Vada. You got me all twisted,
the producers got me all sorry enough, so you know,
but again they're not getting out, so we're rehabilitating to what.

Speaker 5 (01:33:26):
I don't know. This is complicated stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:33:27):
But Jared Farantino's going to be here tomorrow, so if
you have any legal questions about any of these cases.
We didn't even get to the David update, so we'll
get to that tomorrow for sure. Obviously we'll be following
the Luigi man Gioni case as well, and Brian Walsh
is going to be back at it. Thank you for
spending your Tuesday night with us.

Speaker 5 (01:33:46):
We love you.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
Please be safe and we will catch you tomorrow

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